Latest / The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show / Meet Jose Maresma: The Coach Building Josh Kerr’s Mind To Break The Mile World Record

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Meet Jose Maresma: The Coach Building Josh Kerr’s Mind To Break The Mile World Record · The CITIUS MAG Podcast | A Running + Track and Field Show

• 0:00
  What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs Mag
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  podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and
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  every week we go beyond the results to bring you
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  conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads
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  and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and
• 0:12
  coaches to innovators shaping the sport.
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  If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real
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  insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that
• 0:21
  define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get
• 0:25
  anywhere else. So let's get into it because we
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  love. Track and field.
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  My guest for today's episode is Jose Marezma, the clinical
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  exercise physiologist, sports psychologist and the mental
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  performance coach behind Josh Kerr's mile world record.
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  If you listen to our conversation with Josh or Danny
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  Mackie over the last few weeks, you heard his name come up
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  repeatedly. Could have been in the
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  whiteboard session in Albuquerque, the instructions on
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  race morning, the famous what if it was easy quote.
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  Jose was the person on the other end of all of it.
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  Jose has been working in performance psychology for 35
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  years across Olympic sports, professional athletics, special
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  forces, law enforcement and corporate leadership.
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  He started in the world of metabolic development, Alpine
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  ski racing, the Olympic Training Center, and kept running into
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  the same bottleneck, the mind. And so his connection with Josh
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  started not with Josh, but with his wife, Larry Marr.
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  She attended a talk that Jose gave to Scholar athletes heading
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  into medical school back in 2019, and she came up afterward
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  and two years later texted him. My boyfriend's preparing for the
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  Olympics, which would be open to working with him.
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  So Jose invited Josh to a cold plunge session the next morning.
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  Ice pool, pickaxe, 32° dark outside.
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  Josh dove in. You'll hear the full story.
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  And then five years of work followed.
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  In this conversation, Jose walks us through all of it.
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  The hero's journey framework that he built their relationship
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  around. Why he had Josh Wright 342 on
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  dozens of pages of paper with a blue pen.
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  The 222 second cold plunge of what it was designed to do at
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  the cellular level. What actually happens
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  neurologically when an athlete goes deaf in a race.
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  How the Pacers were paired with their own mental work.
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  We dive into a lot. But he also closes with what any
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  recreational runner like you or me heading into a weekend 5K10K
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  or half marathon can actually steal from all of this.
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  I know this is a third episode focused on Josh Kerr's mile
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  world record. I can't get enough.
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  I feel like we haven't. Scratched the surface.
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  On telling the full story of it, hopefully someday.
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  There's even more that Josh shares from this, but wanted to
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  share this conversation. Because Jose's name kept coming
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  up. And it was fascinating.
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  So without further ado, here is Jose Marezma.
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  All right, Jose, well, welcome to the City of Smack podcast and
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  I'm super excited to chat with you.
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  And I feel like I had to give the people at least one more
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  podcast just diving into Josh Kerr's mild world record because
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  I, I feel like I haven't stopped thinking about it.
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  And there's we were talking a little bit before we started
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  recording about how so many people don't even know the half
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  of what has gone into a performance like this because it
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  wasn't just, you know, months in the making from when he made his
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  PowerPoint announcement to Brooks and then they came out
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  with the press release on this thing happening like this has
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  been years in the making. And so you have been one of the
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  recurring. Characters that has popped up.
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  In Josh's, you know, recollection of the work that
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  went into it and Danny's account of things.
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  And so I guess I wanted to start with, I guess, how much of July
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  18th has actually sunk in for you right now?
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  Yeah, it's thank you, Chris. I'm super excited to be here and
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  thank you for having me. It's still sinking in.
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  You know, it's, it's kind of like a little fairy tale and
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  that that dovetails right into kind of my philosophy and
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  coaching practices. But it's it's sinking in.
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  You know, it was a pinnacle moment, certainly in my careers,
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  obviously for Josh, and something that was, you know,
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  touched a lot of the world. I think, you know, it's sport.
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  But I think, you know, the way I think it's sport, you know, has
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  a lot of the same kind of elements that we experience in
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  our lives. And so, yeah, still sinking in.
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  It's still kind of, I call it integrating, right?
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  I'm integrating that experience and what it means to me
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  personally and then what it means on a bigger kind of scale
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  to the collective so. Before we get into just sort of
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  how you got connected with Josh, can you share a bit of your
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  background for folks on just sort of for you?
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  I mean, a lot of this is 4 decades of work and practice
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  going into all of this. Yeah, yeah, I've been around for
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  a while. Yeah.
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  So I'm, I'm a trained clinical exercise physiologist and sport
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  psych and I started my career, it's been about 35 years and I
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  started my career more in the bigger, faster, stronger.
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  My specialty was metabolic development and actually Alpine
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  ski racing. And I had the, the privilege of
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  working places like the Olympic training center with the
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  alphabet soup of professional sports.
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  Then I dovetailed, you know, in that work, it just kept coming
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  up. It's the mind, it's the mind,
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  it's the mind, it's the attitude, it's the mindset.
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  That's, that's what really is the framework that holds up our
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  training, really pursuing our goals and so forth.
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  So I pivoted and decided I, I really want to specialize in
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  working on that aspect because it was underdeveloped.
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  It was just greater opportunity. I can make somebody strong.
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  I can make somebody faster. It's pretty easy in a lot of
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  ways, although there's a lot of nuance there.
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  And you know, like we were talking about Danny.
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  Danny's a wizard at programming. And I get it because I
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  understand the mechanics, the Physiology behind what he does,
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  but the mind less so, right? We're less, I think, focused on
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  that aspect. And it's such a big deal.
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  And my practice expanded really rapidly in that venue because
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  people weren't they were leaving it on the table.
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  And I was a collegiate athlete. I was a soccer player and I had
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  a very short career in triple jumping.
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  And I remember, you know, my experience.
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  And that was a big thing that influenced it.
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  Just, you know, the days I gave up, the days I didn't believe in
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  myself, not working hard enough. And I, I really don't want
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  others to go through that experience.
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  And so, yeah, that's that's what I've been doing for a long time.
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  You've touched. Basically every major sport,
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  then Olympic sports, but in addition to that, you know,
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  special forces, law enforcement, how different are runners?
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  To work with. Well, they're their own
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  category, right? So I, I call it working with
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  people that, that function on the razor's edge, whatever that
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  might be, where the outcomes are big and they're high
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  consequences. And so in that light, I do work
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  with those populations, ER doctors, but engineers, fathers,
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  you know, couples, my wife and I, my wife's a clinical
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  psychologist and we do couples work, you know, because the
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  stakes are high and it matters. And how we approach it, how we
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  stay regulated is really essential to our performance,
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  how we show up right? And we can access our best at
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  any given time when it really counts.
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  And so runners are their own breed.
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  And it's fun. It's fun to be able to apply the
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  same kind of concepts, tools and training in different
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  environments. Because the reality is we're all
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  human beings. And that's what I've come to
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  understand in 35 years. You know, I used to do a lot of
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  corporate speaking around work life balance.
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  And my punchline was always, there's no such thing.
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  There's just your life and all the things that matter to you in
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  that life. So now tell us the story of how
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  you ended up getting connected with Josh, because it wasn't
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  Josh first, it was his wife, Larimar.
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  Yeah, Larimar was, was kind of the conduit.
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  And so, yeah, as a, as an athlete at the University of New
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  Mexico, I like giving back. And so I would volunteer often
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  I'd get a call. Do you want to speak to a
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  particular group? And, and it could be athletes,
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  it could be students. And in one case, it happened to
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  be scholar athletes that were going to medical school.
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  And Larimar was in the group. She had just gotten into medical
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  school. And I gave a lecture on, you
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  know, kind of focus and mindset and how, you know, you carry
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  your sports career into this new kind of challenge that you're
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  facing. And I guess she was moved by
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  that conversation or that talk. And she came up afterwards and
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  introduced herself. Super bubbly, really amazing
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  human being. That was probably 2019, I think.
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  And, you know, great. We exchanged contact
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  information. And in 2020, when Josh was
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  getting ready for the Tokyo Olympics, she reached out to me.
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  She texted me, hey, my boyfriend, he's getting ready
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  for the Olympics. Would you be open to working
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  with him? And I said, of course, I totally
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  remembered her because she was such a bright light.
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  And I thought that's fantastic. And, and that's essentially how
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  it happened. You know, she's a very good
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  partner to him. And he talks about that
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  sometimes that she really sees things that might help him and
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  support him in a way that he might not.
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  And he had been interested in starting doing some, some of the
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  mental aspects of his training, which didn't surprise me.
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  So we exchanged a couple of texts and I happened to be
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  hosting a men's group that I've been running for several years,
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  which was centered around cold plunging.
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  And so you meet six in the morning outdoor environment
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  during the winter months, you know, 4 inches of ice on a pool.
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  And I said, hey, you're invited. You want to come tomorrow, we
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  can get together and you can actually have an experience with
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  me. And he said yes, of course,
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  showed up and eyes got about this big when he saw what we
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  were going to do. And I teach him some breath
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  regulation techniques first and we practice those.
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  And Josh just dove in, and that was the beginning of our
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  relationship. What are you testing in that
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  first or what are you looking for when someone comes open to
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  the experience? Like what are you hoping that
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  they get out of it? So that and what, what, what,
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  what kept Josh coming back. Yeah, well, curiosity is a big
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  one. You know, if you could imagine,
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  I don't know if you've ever cold plunged or done any, you know,
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  And so I've been doing it for about a decade at this point.
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  I'd read all this research on the physiological benefits of
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  cold exposure and heat exposure, etcetera, etcetera.
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  And I started doing it with groups of professional soccer
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  players and engineers and some special operators and a lot of
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  first responders would come. And, you know, initially it was,
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  hey, they're a bunch of health benefits.
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  And we're also going to work with discomfort.
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  All right? Can we regulate under pressure?
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  And if you get into a pool that's 32°, which is what our
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  pool was, it was a salt pool. So it was actually freezing or
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  below. And it's relentless, right?
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  You get in and it begins immediately.
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  Your body responds in a way that it thinks it's going to die,
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  literally does. And can you handle that?
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  Can you actually work with that? And for Josh, he immediately
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  understood kind of this relationship to the stress,
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  'cause right afterwards he said that anxiety I felt before we
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  got in, 'cause you're looking at this pool.
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  I handed him a pickaxe and they had to break up the ice, and
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  these huge chunks of ice are floating around.
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  It's dark outside. And he goes, that anxiety was
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  real similar to the anxiety I feel before racing, right?
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  High stakes, uncertainty, all these things are coming, what's
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  going to happen? And he said that's that.
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  That was really interesting. I said, perfect, we can
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  practice, we can actually work with that and use that as a
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  controlled training environment to actually work on self
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  regulation. I have videos of it actually.
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  And you can see, you know, you get in, you have this initial
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  physiological response and within a few moments, if you're
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  trained, you can relax and you see the face.
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  Often the shoulders drop, the breath being controlled, and
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  you're there and you can just 30 more seconds, 10 more seconds,
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  right? And you're on a tempo run, same
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  thing. You know, it's uncomfortable,
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  it's painful. I'm right at the edge.
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  Am I going to blow up? Can I regulate?
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  Can I regulate here? Can I stay with it?
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  Can I just stay with it? And Josh did really well.
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  I think he stayed in for 5 minutes, which is not a small
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  feat. You know, the invitation is get
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  in, get out, do whatever you want, whatever feels right.
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  But be curious, could you stay another 10 seconds, another 5
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  seconds? And he did a really great job of
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  that. When he's coming to you at the
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  very beginning, it's with the Olympics on the horizon and for
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  everyone at his level in the sport, that's what they wrap
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  their whole entire lives around. Every four years.
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  Everyone works backwards in terms of how they plan their
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  life, you know, around the next Olympic Games.
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  And for Josh, I guess, like that was that was his first Olympics.
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  It gets postponed an extra year because of the pandemic.
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  I mean, what was sort of important, I guess, about having
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  now that extra year to work with him?
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  And from the sound of how you were describing some of those
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  early exercises, you're not necessarily looking to replicate
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  or simulate the feeling of being in, you know, in front of
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  thousands of people, which in Tokyo they ended up being in
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  front of nobody. But it's more more about just
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  the control of what you can control in the race.
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  So having that extra year, what did you work on with with Josh
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  and and what were you looking to simulate?
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  OK, so good question. I'm a storyteller, so, you know,
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  I want to kind of. I love it.
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  Yeah, share a little bit of background.
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  So when I work with somebody, the first question I always ask
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  is tell me your story. And you know, so when I asked
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  that of Josh, it's great. And, and for me, it's wonderful,
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  'cause I just get to step back and often people are going, oh,
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  I'm sorry, I'm over talking. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
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  Because once you give somebody permission to talk about
• 14:32
  themselves, they're, they're prone to do it.
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  And it's, we all do it because we're, we want it be heard,
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  right? We want to be seen.
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  And so he proceeded to start telling a story.
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  And I'm, you know, I'm not going to share things that are
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  proprietary or secret or he's talked about this like, you
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  know, 8 years old sitting under the bleachers at the stadium.
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  You know, he found this fire inside of him.
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  I call it knowing your nature. And he was really lucky because
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  he found that early, like, right.
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  He knew he wanted to do something in this particular
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  environment, this world at 8, you know, which is pretty
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  unique, although I think children know this.
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  And then the world beats it, beats it right out of us.
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  And so he proceeded to say, you know, tell me, you know, what
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  that process was like for him, You know, going to the track on
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  Sunday afternoons when it's raining in Glasgow and it's cold
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  and no one's there and doing his workouts.
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  And I was like, oh, my God, you know, he's got it.
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  He's one of those people. And what I told him, I said
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  you're already sharp. He's a professional at this
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  point. He's been running professionally
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  for a little bit. We're we're going for the
• 15:36
  Olympics. This is, you know, like you
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  said, a pinnacle event. And what I told him, I said our
• 15:42
  goal really is just to know more about yourself.
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  You're already sharp. And all we're going to do is
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  buff out burrs. We're just going to get you
• 15:52
  razor sharp. And from my perspective, that is
• 15:55
  a lot of self-awareness, self regulation, the ability to
• 16:00
  stabilize and strengthen your mind when it matters, when the
• 16:03
  pressure's on, when there is a big crowd over there isn't a a
• 16:05
  big crowd, right? So Tokyo is very unique.
• 16:07
  That was actually a very disruptive force to not have
• 16:11
  people in the arena, in the stadium, right?
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  That's part of what the games are, is displaying these
• 16:16
  superhuman feats to the world, right?
• 16:19
  That's the original Olympics. You know, there's a way that we,
• 16:22
  we got to see what humans are capable of and we still relish
• 16:27
  that. We love it as a society, as
• 16:29
  human beings, and certainly as athletes, coaches and
• 16:32
  enthusiasts. And so that was what we worked
• 16:35
  on. And you know, I use mechanistic
• 16:37
  tools, things, you know, everything I do is very
• 16:39
  neuroscience based and it's very Physiology based and stuff
• 16:42
  that's very well documented and evidence and so forth.
• 16:47
  And I also weave in a lot of the mystical, a lot of the woo woo
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  Josh has said, I saw in a couple of interviews, he's a little woo
• 16:52
  woo sometimes. But that's the magic of our
• 16:55
  psyche. That's the magic of our mind.
• 16:57
  You know, we have stories. And so I opened with, you know,
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  a theme that I use, or it's a maxim really, is it comes from
• 17:06
  the the God Apollo, you know, The Olympian God Apollo said,
• 17:10
  know thyself. And you know, all the
• 17:12
  philosophers have talked about that knowing myself, you know,
• 17:15
  truly being connected to self. They said, so know thyself, know
• 17:19
  thy strengths and know thy limitations.
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  And from there you can create a life of meaning, right?
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  And so I dropped that on him. I said, this is what our journey
• 17:29
  is and it, and it's going to feed into your story, your
• 17:33
  hero's journey, right? I I don't know if you're
• 17:36
  familiar with Joseph Campbell and the Hero's Journey concept.
• 17:41
  No, not, not too much. Not, not too much.
• 17:43
  So you do know it. It's rocky.
• 17:46
  OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:47
  It's the it's the, it's pretty much every movie you watch.
• 17:51
  It's the heroes journey. You know, Jr.
• 17:52
  Tolkien and Joseph Campbell were good buddies.
• 17:55
  They hung out and he wrote The Hobbit based on this idea,
• 18:00
  right? So here's Josh and this is the
• 18:02
  the elements of it. He's this young boy in Glasgow,
• 18:05
  Scotland, and he has, you know, a beautiful home, beautiful
• 18:10
  family, you know, this really comfortable the Shire.
• 18:13
  I'm here. I could just be here and life
• 18:15
  would be fine. Yet there is this call to
• 18:18
  adventure, right? He kept getting called to do
• 18:22
  something and it was from that internal kind of his nature.
• 18:25
  It was in here. I need to find out what I'm
• 18:27
  capable of and, and what I mean in the world.
• 18:29
  And that's really what Josh is good at.
• 18:31
  That's actually, I think what he does and why you've seen this
• 18:36
  record and why you've seen his career continue to grow in his
• 18:39
  particular way. It's a very unique individual.
• 18:41
  And so we, we premised it on that.
• 18:43
  We're going to go on a on a journey of self discovery and
• 18:45
  we're going to have, we're going to meet Dragons.
• 18:47
  We're going to have dark nights of the soul, you know, and then
• 18:51
  we're going to get up when we got beat up and we're going to
• 18:53
  go again. And we're going to just keep
• 18:54
  going after this, this adventure, this thing that we're
• 18:57
  seeking. And so we premised it around
• 18:59
  that and we began with, you know, some basic skills.
• 19:01
  So cold plunge was one tool that we use, but that immediately LED
• 19:05
  into things like teaching him to become a meditator.
• 19:07
  I'm a trained meditation teacher and something called mindfulness
• 19:10
  based stress reduction, and I do my own version using these
• 19:14
  elements that are ancient. But now neuroscience has shown
• 19:17
  us that we can regulate the excitability of our brain by
• 19:19
  controlling our breathing in a very intentional way.
• 19:22
  So I began with that. I taught him that skill and he
• 19:25
  practiced. That's the thing with Josh.
• 19:27
  He's a a student, you know, he's never a master.
• 19:30
  He's always got this attitude and in mindfulness, we call that
• 19:35
  a beginner's mind. He never has any kind of
• 19:38
  arrogance around knowing it all. He's so open to trying things,
• 19:43
  even when it's woo woo. I'm like, hey Josh, we're going
• 19:45
  to try a little something here. Are you open?
• 19:47
  He's absolutely and he leans into it, you know, that
• 19:50
  uncertainty, that that mystery and that shows up on the track
• 19:53
  that shows up when he's training.
• 19:55
  You know, he's always curious. I told him be curious every day,
• 19:59
  every time you step on the trap, go in the gym, be curious of
• 20:02
  what you can do today. And that puts that starts
• 20:05
  developing a mind that has no limits, right, Because most of
• 20:09
  what athletes or special operators or doctors or even
• 20:13
  anyone. Really deals with is these self
• 20:16
  limiting thoughts that I can't I couldn't do that, you know, Hey,
• 20:20
  I want to break the world record.
• 20:22
  You can't do that. I mean, you're aware of the the
• 20:25
  shade that he got, you know, since he announced 222 like he
• 20:30
  can't do that. The problem is when we believe
• 20:33
  that and we do even on a subconscious level, and there's
• 20:36
  a bunch of neuroscience behind that using things like call, you
• 20:41
  know, elements in our brain are subconscious and, and even just
• 20:47
  a second in that space and it's slow.
• 20:50
  It's like putting the parking brake on, even if it's
• 20:52
  momentary. And certainly for something that
• 20:55
  has such tight tolerances, like a mile world record, it's a very
• 20:58
  short amount of time with a lot of calculation, a lot of effort
• 21:02
  going into it. You can't think, you can't even
• 21:06
  touch a negative thought when you're on the track.
• 21:09
  And we could talk about that because that's that's he did a
• 21:12
  masterful job in that particular moment.
• 21:14
  He's very good at it. I think for the world record, he
• 21:17
  unlocked another level of that and you know, people know what
• 21:21
  it is. It's called flow state.
• 21:22
  It's where thinking and doing become one.
• 21:25
  It's just one thing. There is no separation and it
• 21:30
  just flows through you. This episode of the City of
• 21:34
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  Sidious Mag 20. Before we get to the mile world
• 23:26
  record, I mean it, it it's very clear that when he's telling you
• 23:29
  his story and he's open to doing all these like you very quickly
• 23:32
  realize like, oh, this one is, is different.
• 23:35
  And So what did you learn then when you see him in Tokyo, earn
• 23:39
  a bronze medal. You posted the photo of this
• 23:43
  after the world record. That was only just like the the
• 23:47
  beginning of the validation from what you were seeing behind the
• 23:51
  scenes. And it's clear since then that
• 23:53
  Josh has only wanted more. What did you see?
• 23:56
  So I saw a champion. I saw someone that was willing
• 24:02
  to do the work. I saw someone that had the
• 24:03
  patience to do the process, right, to do the work so that
• 24:10
  the outcome was inevitable, right?
• 24:12
  So that those outcomes that he keeps getting are inevitable
• 24:15
  because he shows up every day deeply present, deeply engaged
• 24:19
  with the work that he's doing. And it was very clear he was
• 24:22
  young. You know, he was 20.
• 24:23
  I think he was 2122, right when we met.
• 24:26
  So, you know, a man, but a young man, you know, passed his rookie
• 24:30
  year. And I saw this level of maturity
• 24:33
  that's pretty unique, a level of focus that was there, an
• 24:38
  intention and what he wanted. And he was very clear about
• 24:41
  that. He wanted to really show the
• 24:46
  world what he was capable of, but more so show himself.
• 24:50
  He was curious about himself, like what am I capable of doing?
• 24:53
  And it was really a fun process. It's been a fun process to
• 24:57
  explore that with him because now I'll tell you, he has one of
• 25:02
  the most healthy egos of anyone I've ever worked with, anyone.
• 25:07
  I mean, you've talked to him, you've met him.
• 25:10
  He's an incredible human being. He's worthy of being admired and
• 25:14
  being a role model in a time in history where we don't have a
• 25:18
  whole lot of real heroes. We have some on, you know, movie
• 25:21
  screens and so forth. He's a real hero.
• 25:24
  He brings that to every aspect of his life.
• 25:26
  The way he behaves as a husband, as a son, as a family member, as
• 25:30
  a brother, as a friend, as an athlete, as a teammate.
• 25:35
  It's universal, it's who he is. And I think that's what what's
• 25:40
  allowed him to do the things that he's doing right now.
• 25:43
  And so that's what I saw and I saw it very quickly and I was
• 25:49
  just like super curious myself. I'm like, what could he actually
• 25:52
  do? It could be everything, right?
• 25:56
  Anything that he wants to accomplish.
• 25:58
  And it'll be really fun if we get to do it together, if I get
• 26:01
  to be with him through that process.
• 26:04
  And so that's what I saw. I saw somebody that was that was
• 26:06
  curious as hell about himself. One of the biggest things I do
• 26:12
  respect about Josh and the way he's been able to process all of
• 26:15
  these successes from the past couple years, the golden
• 26:18
  Budapest, the silver in in Paris and then even the the world
• 26:24
  record here now is that there he he's not shy to think back on
• 26:29
  just how 2022 affected him and how that was like.
• 26:34
  It hasn't been just like this, you know, hit after hit after
• 26:37
  hit. He did get knocked down at some
• 26:39
  point. What was important about that
• 26:40
  year in retrospect? Now you know of the work that
• 26:45
  you guys put in that year that maybe manifested itself in 2023
• 26:48
  when he did become a champion? Yeah, I think that's a really
• 26:52
  important thing that you just brought up is the idea.
• 26:55
  How do we, you know, it's easy to celebrate success.
• 26:59
  It's super easy. But how do you handle, you know,
• 27:02
  challenge or defeat? Do you show up again?
• 27:06
  Do you come back? That's the hero's journey.
• 27:08
  We go out, we meet the dragon, and it kicks our ass, right?
• 27:12
  And and there we are in the dirt, bleeding.
• 27:15
  What are you going to do? And I, you know, we were
• 27:19
  together day before yesterday. He's back in Albuquerque.
• 27:22
  And so we did a mountain session.
• 27:23
  We went up, we hike up and we, we have a little special place
• 27:26
  that we ground and center and take some deep breaths.
• 27:30
  And you know, what came up for me, you know, in this moment of
• 27:34
  celebration, as I told him, I said, I think what impresses me
• 27:40
  most is how you've handled the challenges, right?
• 27:44
  How you've embraced them. Have you used them as an
• 27:47
  opportunity to learn to get better?
• 27:49
  Right? Know my limitations, know where
• 27:51
  the limits were and use that as a guidepost to how to get
• 27:55
  better. And I told him that.
• 27:59
  I said that's the most impressive thing.
• 28:01
  Whether it was that 22 season, which wasn't, you know, a
• 28:04
  stellar season for him, it wasn't.
• 28:06
  But he kept coming back, right? He knew that it wasn't over.
• 28:10
  We have slumps sometimes and moments for whatever reason, you
• 28:13
  know, there's some physical things, psychological things,
• 28:15
  struggle, whatever it might be. That's that that's kind of
• 28:19
  affecting us. Again, that whole idea.
• 28:20
  It's just our life. And, you know, those tall, those
• 28:24
  little moments and things do affect our work.
• 28:27
  And running is his work. And that was just a tougher
• 28:30
  year. But you know, the questions
• 28:32
  always, what'd you learn? What'd you learn?
• 28:34
  What'd you learn? And he's really good at that.
• 28:36
  And he's gotten really good at that.
• 28:38
  You know, overtime, he got it. He was like, yeah, what did I
• 28:41
  learn there? What could I do different?
• 28:43
  What could I do better? Can I communicate with Danny
• 28:45
  better? Can, you know, we really dial up
• 28:48
  my sleep, You know, what is it that we can do?
• 28:51
  And it start, you know, that premise of what, what can we
• 28:54
  control? That's something else that I've
• 28:56
  introduced into training. It's something that I use and
• 28:58
  it's a mindset development tool. It's like we can control certain
• 29:01
  things and there are things that are outside of our control and
• 29:03
  what's the reality? I can control my effort, my
• 29:06
  attention, my focus, my attitude, right?
• 29:09
  Those are things I can control. Everything else is chaos.
• 29:13
  It is you step on the track, it's chaos.
• 29:15
  But if we spend time developing those things we can control,
• 29:18
  which is essentially ourselves, right?
• 29:20
  How we show up, what we do, what we say, what we think, right?
• 29:25
  We have more influence over chaos.
• 29:28
  And that's been that process. So slumpier or, you know, Tokyo
• 29:33
  last year, that was tough. I wasn't there with him.
• 29:36
  He was ready. He was as fit as he's ever been.
• 29:39
  You know, I work closely with Danny.
• 29:40
  We talk a lot. And he said, yeah, he's ready.
• 29:44
  He's as fit as he's ever been. You know, this should be
• 29:46
  wonderful. And chaos touched him, You know,
• 29:50
  the calf, you know, really didn't tell anyone how hurt he
• 29:55
  was. He knew.
• 29:57
  In fact, I talked to him that day.
• 29:59
  I'm like, you OK, All right. I'm OK.
• 30:02
  And I'm like, I knew he was off, but but OK, it's disruptive.
• 30:05
  Whatever. And, you know, he had a rough
• 30:07
  final there where he limped across the line.
• 30:10
  He was injured and he called me that night and there was, you
• 30:15
  know, it was heavy. You know, he sets up his seasons
• 30:20
  for particular races. Typically.
• 30:22
  It's a great goal, right? We target and and we work
• 30:25
  towards that. It's really, I think, very
• 30:27
  skillful way to train for seasons.
• 30:31
  And he was disappointed and there was pain and Mike called
• 30:34
  him was like, feel it all invited in.
• 30:37
  You know, the way that we experience, you know, grief
• 30:41
  because that's literally what he was going through is a grief is
• 30:45
  to invite it in, not to push it away.
• 30:47
  And that's how we integrate it. That's how it becomes part of
• 30:49
  us. We learn from it.
• 30:50
  We live with it. And he was rapidly going through
• 30:53
  that. I, you know, that night I said,
• 30:55
  just be with your family, let them love you, you know, feel it
• 30:58
  all, feel the disappointment, feel the pain.
• 31:01
  And you know, sometimes that's hard, certainly for somebody
• 31:05
  like him who's used to go, go, go, you know, fight, fight,
• 31:08
  fight, to surrender the pain, to surrender to the disappointment.
• 31:13
  It's really difficult. But he did that.
• 31:15
  And, you know, a couple days later and I'll tell you that he,
• 31:19
  we talked on the phone. How you doing?
• 31:21
  He was going to spend some time in Japan with his family and so
• 31:23
  forth. He goes, I'm going after the
• 31:25
  world record, right? Just a couple days later.
• 31:28
  So he moved through that. He let that flow through him.
• 31:31
  He learned from that and he was ready to go again.
• 31:34
  That's that, you know, a tough season, a tough race.
• 31:36
  You have to be able to do that, assimilate it, integrate it and
• 31:40
  go. And it just made him stronger.
• 31:43
  It just keeps making him stronger.
• 31:44
  In fact, we talked about it. Without that disappointment,
• 31:47
  could he have actually recalibrated, come back, adapted
• 31:52
  and overcome and train as hard as he did?
• 31:54
  For the record. So sometimes our biggest
• 31:57
  disappointment turns into one of our biggest inspirations or
• 32:01
  tools that we use to actually grow.
• 32:03
  So Danny writes the workouts, Julian's at practice helping out
• 32:07
  as well. Wear the.
• 32:09
  Pockets of the week that you spend time with Josh.
• 32:12
  So there's the there's the, the ice bath sessions and then
• 32:15
  there's also what the the hikes like is.
• 32:18
  It twice a week. Yeah, typically it's twice a
• 32:20
  week and then some other touches, you know, or either
• 32:23
  texting or, or calling and so forth.
• 32:25
  But we typically dedicate 2 days a week that we're together.
• 32:30
  And so, you know, one session typically is we spend in the
• 32:33
  sauna and the, and the cold plunge.
• 32:35
  And so I have a facility here at the Performance Ranch and we
• 32:38
  have a beautiful sauna and we have beautiful cold plunge tubs
• 32:40
  and we'll, you know, we'll do our work in the sauna.
• 32:42
  So we'll do the actual kind of what people would call
• 32:45
  traditional therapy or you know, that that type of psychological
• 32:49
  work. And, and we do it in the sauna
• 32:51
  in a uncomfortable environments, typically running about 200°.
• 32:56
  We're in there and then we'll pop out and, you know, we'll
• 33:00
  pick a key moment and we might put a pin in what we're talking
• 33:03
  about. Typically it's something very
• 33:05
  specific into the cold plunge. And so I use those tools as
• 33:09
  mechanisms, right? So I know Physiology, I know
• 33:11
  psychology and neuroscience. I know when we actually add
• 33:14
  these kind of physiological stressors, we're changing the
• 33:18
  profile of our endocrine system and the chemicals we release.
• 33:22
  And we can actually use that to embed certain concepts, ideas or
• 33:29
  mindsets that we might be working on.
• 33:31
  And it's pretty powerful. He's talked about how
• 33:34
  specifically had him sit in the cold plunge for 222 seconds,
• 33:40
  right, 222 seconds. And it was so that we followed
• 33:46
  through with this concept that I kind of that.
• 33:49
  And again, I I've done this a long time.
• 33:51
  So we use our intuition, we use our knowledge.
• 33:54
  We know the relationship that we have the moment and what's
• 33:58
  coming up and first thought I had was so Josh has to be able
• 34:05
  to feel in his body. And I call this gnosis, right?
• 34:10
  And it's not my turn but it but it's knowing not here, but here,
• 34:14
  what it feels like to be at the tempo and pace that he needs to
• 34:19
  be at for each lap for 222 seconds.
• 34:21
  He has to feel that discomfort. And I even called Danny, I said
• 34:25
  look in the training. Josh needs to feel it so that he
• 34:29
  doesn't need a pacer, he doesn't need lights, that he will know
• 34:34
  fully in his body that he's on pace, right?
• 34:39
  And your workout should actually mimic that.
• 34:42
  It should actually, as you develop over the next several
• 34:44
  months that he, you know, whether it's a 200, a 400 and
• 34:48
  800, that his body is starting to understand and be super
• 34:52
  intimate with that feeling so that he knows it.
• 34:55
  Does that make sense? And so using the cold plunge was
• 34:58
  way to reinforce that or emphasize that too.
• 35:01
  Then we then we do another session a week, which is out in
• 35:06
  nature. And there are reasons to do
• 35:08
  that. I, I like taking my athletes or
• 35:10
  people I work without in, in natural environments.
• 35:13
  It's Stanford did studies. It shows us when we're actually
• 35:16
  in nature, our brains look like they're on meditating, right?
• 35:20
  And so it's a way that we can activate the parasympathetic
• 35:23
  nervous system, rest, digest, relax, recover.
• 35:28
  I think we should spend time in nature.
• 35:29
  There's something that that inspires awe, right?
• 35:32
  So we're, we're, we're creating these sensations and these
• 35:35
  chemical profiles that actually open US, right?
• 35:38
  Open, open, open to awe, to wonder, right?
• 35:42
  And that was a big part of creating something new.
• 35:45
  And like a world record, it had to be awe.
• 35:47
  It's something new. It's never happened, right?
• 35:49
  There had to be something mystical about it, almost right
• 35:53
  storytelling here. And so I would bring them out.
• 35:55
  We strip our shoes off. We feel the earth underneath us.
• 35:59
  And it's a practice of of centering.
• 36:01
  It's a practice of presence to be fully in your body, less
• 36:05
  thinking, more experiencing the moment.
• 36:08
  And we spend, you know, time out there, We notice the sun, we
• 36:11
  feel the light, you know, the 1st 15 minutes, there's no
• 36:14
  conversation. It's really just being here,
• 36:18
  being present and for somebody that all week is like got the
• 36:21
  dial turned up, you know, all the way up, all the training he
• 36:25
  was doing. It's a great way to reset the
• 36:27
  nervous system. It's a form of recovery, and
• 36:30
  he's talked about that. He became a master of recovery.
• 36:34
  Most athletes are masters of hard work, especially at this
• 36:37
  level. They know how to work hard.
• 36:38
  That's not typically a difficult thing for them.
• 36:41
  But turning it down, putting it down for a little bit is often
• 36:45
  difficult. And as a physiologist, all the
• 36:48
  adaptations of the hard work actually get integrated when
• 36:51
  you're recovering, right. And so that's, that's typically
• 36:56
  how we spend our weeks is a couple sessions a week and then
• 36:59
  just touching base during the, the world record, the mile.
• 37:03
  I, I spent a lot of time, you know, I'd come out to the track
• 37:07
  and just be there and, you know, small little exchanges and, you
• 37:10
  know, like, how'd that feel? What was that like?
• 37:13
  And I don't know if that, you know, he's talked about when he
• 37:15
  when he posted that time trial, you know, I was on the track.
• 37:18
  I was sitting there with his parents.
• 37:20
  I don't know if that's something you want to talk about.
• 37:22
  But that was actually a profound moment when he, you know, kind
• 37:28
  of took the engines out and tested them for real, putting it
• 37:32
  all together. And that's pretty interesting.
• 37:35
  Yeah, it's one of the ones that when he told that story to to me
• 37:39
  and Kyle and we recorded that podcast with him and we talked
• 37:42
  about that time trial. He shared how, you know, he
• 37:48
  crossed through the 1200 ran 242 closed crazy hard.
• 37:54
  And then he's basically, I think expressed to you and Danny that
• 37:58
  he thought it would be harder. And then it was you, I think,
• 38:03
  who said to to him. I was like, but what if it's
• 38:05
  easy and it really just unlocked?
• 38:09
  I've been thinking about it a lot, even in my own workouts,
• 38:13
  you know, if if I'm trying to hit a certain pace or anything
• 38:15
  like that, I'm just telling myself, what if it's easy?
• 38:18
  And yeah, I think even Kyle's tossed up a Strava caption here
• 38:22
  or there. It's like, what if it's easy?
• 38:23
  So where did you come up with this thing?
• 38:26
  OK, so, OK, so I, I think it's pivotal in the moment, you know,
• 38:31
  don't really know how pivotal it might be or it might be a
• 38:34
  deflection point or just, you know, it's planting a seed.
• 38:36
  It's like the small seed. So we're up there.
• 38:39
  I'm sitting with these folks who are amazing.
• 38:41
  I love them so much. And you know, we witnessed this
• 38:47
  amazing training session. And so I walked down to the
• 38:50
  track and Josh is drinking water.
• 38:52
  I walked up to Julian 1st and I asked him, it's like, what do
• 38:55
  you think, Julian? And his mouth is kind of going
• 38:58
  between a huge smile and hanging open.
• 39:01
  And he said it was the most of unbelievable training session
• 39:04
  I've ever witnessed, right? You know, so you could feel that
• 39:08
  and you could it was palpable on the track.
• 39:10
  So the team Brooks was there. You know, most of the beasts
• 39:12
  were there. It was a really beautiful
• 39:14
  training session. Everybody had just incredible
• 39:16
  work. And it kind of the culmination
• 39:18
  was this, this time trial. And, you know, you know, the
• 39:21
  numbers that he posted. And I walk up to Josh and I'm
• 39:26
  like, how did it feel? And he's kind of like it felt
• 39:32
  easy. And I'm like, OK, but I wish it
• 39:37
  felt harder so that it could be real.
• 39:42
  And instantly I knew because at this point, you know, we were
• 39:47
  close. We're about a month out.
• 39:49
  And I knew he was fit. I knew where he was.
• 39:54
  I mean, I talked to Danny pretty regularly and he's like, he's
• 39:57
  341 ready. I mean, that's, that's his body
• 40:00
  is ready to do that. And Danny doesn't exaggerate
• 40:03
  anything. Nothing.
• 40:04
  He's, in fact, you know, he probably underplays things.
• 40:08
  And so I'm OK, cool. And Josh is feeding back how he
• 40:11
  feels. He's super healthy, everything's
• 40:14
  right, He's sleeping right. Everything's just right on the
• 40:17
  money. And I kept feeling it's like
• 40:22
  there's going to be a bottleneck and the bottleneck is going to
• 40:26
  be his head. It really is, because the work
• 40:29
  that went into it was extraordinary.
• 40:33
  I mean, he was the mad scientist at home.
• 40:36
  He had whiteboards up. He had time splits.
• 40:39
  I mean, they were doing it. And that's the time to be
• 40:42
  cognitive. That's actually the time to do
• 40:43
  all the analysis and all the battle.
• 40:47
  And when he said it felt easy and I could see it in his body.
• 40:51
  I really know, you know, I, those are some of the tools I
• 40:53
  use. I'm I really pay attention to
• 40:56
  cues like non verbal, physical, you know, stance shoulders you,
• 41:00
  you probably know it too. You know, when somebody's at
• 41:02
  ease, when somebody's feeling strong and and you could see it.
• 41:06
  He was at ease, right? It was easy.
• 41:09
  It was flowing through him, but that was a byproduct of all that
• 41:12
  training and the issue with somebody like him that's so
• 41:16
  dedicated, so focused. I mean, numbers, time, boom,
• 41:19
  boom, boom, 'cause we can get stuck there, right?
• 41:23
  And then that, that, that dial gets wound way too tight.
• 41:27
  And that's not going to help performance, right?
• 41:30
  Sometimes we have to dial it back.
• 41:32
  And when he said that, he was in an analytical right space, like
• 41:37
  it should feel hard. I know hard, hard is how we're
• 41:40
  good. You know, that whole mentality.
• 41:43
  And the thing was that the battle was over.
• 41:45
  He already won the war. He had done the work.
• 41:49
  It was in him. It was in every cell in his
• 41:52
  body. And so it was very easy for that
• 41:54
  to come out. And I said, what if it were
• 41:56
  easy, Josh? What if it were easy?
• 41:59
  I said what you just did was fucking hard.
• 42:01
  I don't know if I can cuss on this podcast.
• 42:04
  Yeah, go for it. It's like what you just did is
• 42:07
  fucking hard, Josh, but you did it with ease.
• 42:12
  And the, he's talked about this. I actually, you know, said don't
• 42:16
  chase the number at the beginning.
• 42:19
  You can't chase a number because chasing is hard.
• 42:21
  Chasing feels like effort. And if you're in that mindset of
• 42:25
  chasing, it's going to be really hard to hit that number.
• 42:29
  What you need to do is focus on the process.
• 42:31
  So you need to, all you need to do is create the conditions for
• 42:34
  the environment so that that outcome that you want is
• 42:37
  inevitable. And so I said you did it.
• 42:41
  You created the conditions, the outcome's inevitable.
• 42:44
  This is just your last piece of proof.
• 42:47
  That's all you needed. You took, you know, McLaren
• 42:49
  builds a new race car and they take it on the track and they
• 42:52
  give it, you know, they let it run and see what happens.
• 42:54
  And, and he got the right feedback at that moment.
• 42:57
  He knew he was ready. And so I literally said it's
• 43:00
  time to put away the whiteboards.
• 43:02
  And what's funny is his aura ring fell off his his hand.
• 43:05
  In that moment, I said, see no more data, no more blood tests,
• 43:10
  no more. It's like the analysis is done.
• 43:12
  Your only job right now is to stay in your body, to know that
• 43:17
  you've won the war and surrender, surrender, that it's
• 43:23
  going to feel easy because you did the work.
• 43:26
  And you know, later I used the example of like I've ever seen
• 43:29
  Cirque du Soleil. Yeah.
• 43:31
  Yeah, and you, you watch these incredible athletes and
• 43:34
  performers make it look easy, like they're flying.
• 43:37
  It's fucking hard. They train so much, they make it
• 43:41
  look easy. I says it's the same thing.
• 43:43
  You've trained to the point where your body is ready, your
• 43:45
  mind is ready. You have to surrender to that.
• 43:47
  You can't think. There's no more work to be done.
• 43:50
  The battle is done. Put down the weapons, put down
• 43:52
  the shield and just flow into the race.
• 43:56
  It's already there, 222's on the track.
• 43:59
  You just need to slip into that's that river and let it
• 44:02
  take you. And so literally, it was a form
• 44:06
  of surrender, not of effort. And that's different.
• 44:10
  That feels different in the body.
• 44:12
  He was ready for the effort, right?
• 44:14
  For the that tempo, that pace. But it was a surrendering to it,
• 44:19
  not a fighting for it. What was that evening like for
• 44:23
  you to go home, tell your wife what you witnessed, and then at
• 44:26
  the same time be like I told him it's gonna be easy?
• 44:31
  Well, you know, I work with my wife quite a bit and she's
• 44:35
  actually worked with the Brooks team with me.
• 44:38
  We do like workshops for him. We've had him dance and do some,
• 44:41
  you know, interesting things. And so, you know, she was right
• 44:45
  on point with me that that, you know, she knew about all that
• 44:49
  and and she said that the fight's over.
• 44:51
  It's, you know, it's done. The work has been put in.
• 44:54
  He's just ready. He needs to do it.
• 44:56
  You know, I had been typing in even before he crossed the
• 45:01
  finish line. I had my phone out and she's in
• 45:03
  Albuquerque. I'm in London.
• 45:06
  It's insane in the stadium, right?
• 45:08
  And I already, I already typed in.
• 45:10
  He did it right. And so when as he crossed the
• 45:15
  line and the world exploded, you know, I just hit send and I got
• 45:23
  a voice memo from her a little while later and she's just
• 45:27
  bawling. She goes, I've watched it 14
• 45:29
  times already. He did it.
• 45:32
  I mean, it was just, it was, it felt so good just to witness
• 45:37
  that for him. It just felt so good, so proud
• 45:40
  of him. To share it with my wife was
• 45:43
  wonderful because she's been part of it.
• 45:45
  She's part of the story and she's been witness and worked
• 45:48
  with Josh and, you know, has a deep love for him.
• 45:51
  We have a very close relationship with Larimar and
• 45:53
  Josh. Josh, you know, personally, it
• 45:55
  could be our kids, you know, 59, my wife's 53.
• 46:01
  And so we we have that kind of relationship.
• 46:03
  We love them like our kids. I want to talk about the
• 46:07
  notebook. Same blue pen, same sentence,
• 46:12
  dozens of pages and he's writing down.
• 46:14
  I ran 342 at the London Diamond League, July 18th, 2026.
• 46:17
  So what is writing do for for the mind and and that practice?
• 46:22
  OK, so this is, you know, again, not a secret weapon or anything.
• 46:26
  People know journaling, people know things like manifesting and
• 46:29
  so forth. There's a brain surgeon named
• 46:34
  James Dottie who was a professor of medicine, neuroscientist at
• 46:39
  Stanford University, and wrote a book called The Neuroscience of
• 46:43
  Manifestation, and it has to do with our subconscious and region
• 46:48
  of brain called the salience network.
• 46:53
  Our cognitive minds are black and white, good, bad, yes, no,
• 46:57
  right, wrong. Right.
• 46:59
  The part of our salience network doesn't have those limitations,
• 47:04
  right? So whatever you can program into
• 47:06
  it, this would be subconscious thought and we can actually link
• 47:09
  it to our heart. Our body thinks fully, right?
• 47:14
  It's not just the brain. We have cells called neurites in
• 47:17
  our heart. We have them in our gut.
• 47:20
  A lot of people know about neurons.
• 47:22
  We have 100 billion in our brain.
• 47:23
  We have 100 million in our gut. We have 60,000 in our heart, and
• 47:27
  they're actually throughout our entire body.
• 47:29
  We think with our body. That's our intuition.
• 47:32
  That's information coming in. We can program that.
• 47:35
  It's being programmed every day, right?
• 47:38
  That's why negative thinking, self limitation is a, is a
• 47:40
  hiccup. It's an impediment because it's
• 47:42
  literally programmed into our body.
• 47:44
  SO1 tool that you can use. And he's talked about it.
• 47:47
  And I use white paper with a blue pen because it's been
• 47:51
  studied high contrast, right? Blue and white high contrast.
• 47:55
  Our brains like the colors and the color contrast.
• 47:58
  And it's a way that we can program the salience network.
• 48:01
  And the way that it works is, have you ever bought a new pair
• 48:03
  of shoes or a new car? You never thought about it, but
• 48:06
  all of a sudden, you see it everywhere.
• 48:07
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:09
  OK. So that's that mechanism.
• 48:11
  So essentially what I was having him do is program his
• 48:15
  subconscious for that number, right.
• 48:17
  As a target, even though we weren't chasing that number, it
• 48:20
  needed to be in him somehow, right?
• 48:23
  That this is achievable. Roger Bannister did the same
• 48:26
  thing. He had written down 359, I
• 48:30
  believe is what he wrote down. And he would write it down.
• 48:33
  You know, he would write it down.
• 48:34
  He would, he would look for it. What happens is that that part
• 48:38
  of our brain that has no limitations now start seeing
• 48:41
  every way to get you there, every way to get you there.
• 48:45
  And so James Dottie talks about that in his book Neuroscience.
• 48:49
  When we do that, that's the action of manifestation,
• 48:52
  creating something. And then there's something
• 48:54
  between thinking and then putting it down on paper that
• 48:57
  actually strengthens that. So for him to do that every day
• 49:01
  and write, it was just another little thing that he could do.
• 49:03
  It's a little plus one that was training his body.
• 49:06
  So when he went out on the track and Danny said do this, his
• 49:10
  mind, even though he didn't know it was actually saying 222,
• 49:15
  342-340-2342, this is taking me there.
• 49:19
  So that actually reinforced and strengthened everything that he
• 49:22
  did. And it was just a way that he
• 49:24
  could train that part. And that's why we did that
• 49:26
  exercise. And you know, he's a good
• 49:28
  student. He follows through with his
• 49:30
  homework. He did it, he does it and I know
• 49:34
  his body. You know, really fun story, I
• 49:38
  think is before Paris, before the Paris Olympics, we were
• 49:41
  doing some of our work and we were actually down in the Bosque
• 49:44
  area, which is the river, the Rio Grande River.
• 49:46
  And so far it's beautiful area. We're sitting there and I had
• 49:48
  them do a visualization something, you know, a tool that
• 49:50
  we use. And I had them run the final in
• 49:54
  Paris. And the way I have them do it,
• 49:57
  it's called guided imagery. So it's not just visualizing,
• 50:00
  it's actually trying to feel it with all your sensory body.
• 50:04
  And so I said, I want you to run the race.
• 50:06
  I want you to start in the call room, right?
• 50:09
  So how are you going to regulate in the call room?
• 50:11
  What's going to be your affect? How are you going to keep
• 50:12
  centered? Go rehearse it all.
• 50:15
  Rehearse it all. Walk to the line, notice the
• 50:17
  cameras, notice the crowd, you know, all the things that could
• 50:19
  disrupt you walking to the line. And I want you to tap your
• 50:23
  finger when the gun goes off. And then I wanted you to tap
• 50:27
  your finger when you crossed the line.
• 50:31
  He says OK. And so he goes in.
• 50:33
  We do a little breath work, we go in.
• 50:35
  At this point, he's pretty experienced meditator.
• 50:37
  He's able to get into that kind of centered state, Eyes closed,
• 50:43
  taps his finger. And I start the stopwatch, goes
• 50:48
  through the whole thing, taps his finger when he crosses the
• 50:50
  line, I stop it. And it was just curiosity on my
• 50:54
  point. It was about 3:44.
• 51:04
  That's how entrained his body is, that's he is so aware that
• 51:11
  he was able to run the race literally really well in his
• 51:16
  mind. And we know from, from research
• 51:21
  and neuroscience that your brain doesn't know the difference
• 51:23
  between what happens in here and out here.
• 51:27
  It really does make a whole lot of distinction there.
• 51:29
  There are studies that show that just imagining lifting a weight
• 51:33
  and you get stronger compared to a group that's actually lifting
• 51:37
  weights at about similar rates. And there are tons of studies
• 51:40
  that show it. So it's again, a way to train
• 51:43
  the mind. And, and he's really good at it.
• 51:46
  He's really good at training his mind.
• 51:47
  It's, that's part of the belief system too, because you believe
• 51:50
  it in all those cells in your body, right?
• 51:53
  It's in you. It's already in there, the race
• 51:55
  is in there, and so that's a tool that we use.
• 52:00
  Well, well, well, about time for a refreshing twist.
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• 53:34
  Happy running. You brought up Paris and one of
• 53:38
  the key things I think that took place in Paris that he's talked
• 53:41
  about several times. And you know, when I got to chat
• 53:44
  with him right after the silver medal, I think it was one of the
• 53:46
  coolest things to to hear from him just days after that race
• 53:49
  was he went deaf very early on into the race.
• 53:55
  And it was arguably one of the best races that people were
• 54:00
  anticipating and looking forward to.
• 54:02
  And the crowds in Paris were awesome.
• 54:05
  But how did you and him afterwards interpret what was
• 54:09
  happening in the body and mind in that moment?
• 54:12
  Because then it, I mean, we couldn't predict it, but it
• 54:15
  happened again in London. Yeah, of course.
• 54:18
  And So what you're describing, what he was describing is he's
• 54:22
  actually accessing new levels of flow of presents, right.
• 54:27
  So there are things called flow triggers.
• 54:31
  So meditation is a flow training exercise, right?
• 54:37
  What does flow require? Requires deep embodiment, deep
• 54:43
  presence, right? Human beings are very
• 54:47
  interesting. We can time travel.
• 54:48
  We're the only time travelers in nature.
• 54:51
  Because your body, Chris, you could be sitting here, but you
• 54:54
  could be thinking about what's for lunch, you know, in the
• 54:57
  future or what happened yesterday, right?
• 55:00
  So we can time travel. When you're in a performance
• 55:03
  state, when you're actually doing something like racing, you
• 55:07
  can't time travel. And you know what that feels
• 55:10
  like? You're in a race and you start
• 55:12
  self referencing and you know, you start going whatever it
• 55:15
  might be that's pulling you out of being present, even though
• 55:18
  your body's still there and it's running.
• 55:21
  When his sensory organs start shutting down, meaning and all
• 55:26
  they're doing is actually prioritizing.
• 55:29
  So when he lost his hearing, all that means to me is that he was
• 55:33
  super present in what he was doing, each strike, each
• 55:37
  footfall, each breath, right? And so that's a great sign.
• 55:41
  It just meant he was super in his body.
• 55:44
  He really wasn't thinking. He wasn't worried about that
• 55:47
  times or anything. He was fully focused and body
• 55:51
  deep. Embodiment is required for flow.
• 55:53
  He was just at a higher level of flow.
• 55:56
  I think it's not something you you you said before describing.
• 56:00
  Chasing a feeling is not necessarily what you want to end
• 56:02
  up doing. So when it took place or I guess
• 56:06
  in the lead up to the mile world record you he knows that he
• 56:11
  achieved that flow state in arguably the biggest race before
• 56:14
  this of his career. He's not chasing the execution
• 56:19
  of going deaf like going deaf and, and, and that flow state.
• 56:23
  So does it just has? Is that just that he trained
• 56:27
  himself to once again activate or how did it happen again is
• 56:31
  the question. Yeah, it's so it's his nervous
• 56:33
  system. It's his nervous system is
• 56:35
  trained in trained. So it it it's easier to go into
• 56:39
  those deeper states of flow, deeper states of presence.
• 56:42
  And it was very and even in the mile he unlocked another level
• 56:46
  of it. He he told me and I think he
• 56:50
  said that out loud is like, I hadn't it felt like an out of
• 56:53
  body experience where he was the narrator, like he felt like he
• 56:58
  was here on his shoulder observing what he was doing
• 57:03
  right. And people have talked about
• 57:06
  that, You know, it was like an out of body experience.
• 57:08
  What it really is is a full embodied experience.
• 57:10
  He was in, he had an out of mind experience.
• 57:13
  He was not in his mind. He was fully in his body.
• 57:15
  His mind and his body were integrated fully because he did
• 57:19
  have some narration that was going on.
• 57:24
  You know, things like, gosh, this feels so easy, right?
• 57:28
  Oh, I'm with the lights, you know, but but these thoughts
• 57:31
  never got sticky. They were never a parking brake.
• 57:34
  They would just flow through him.
• 57:36
  He observed them as information and integrated him.
• 57:41
  Does that make sense? Right, Because we stutter like
• 57:45
  we, it's like a little hiccup when we get sticky on a thought
• 57:49
  and we start processing it. And that's something we work on,
• 57:52
  inviting everything and inviting it in, inviting even the hard
• 57:55
  thoughts, even the negative thoughts, right?
• 57:58
  Even the good thoughts that we invite him in and let him flow
• 58:00
  through, let him flow through so that we never get stuck.
• 58:03
  And that really helps without or with not limiting what's
• 58:09
  happening in the moment, right? Not parking brake, parking
• 58:12
  brake. And so he, the way he described
• 58:15
  it, you know, he was kind of on his shoulder, he was observing
• 58:17
  what was happening. He knew what was happening, but
• 58:21
  he never got stuck on it because he was in the full effort.
• 58:25
  Present moment effort is what I call it.
• 58:27
  You have to be in present moment effort and it feels effortless
• 58:32
  because thinking is very slow. It really is, though.
• 58:35
  Our thoughts are lightning fast. It's slow.
• 58:38
  So when you're in flow, thought and action become one.
• 58:43
  And it's based on work, like James Dottie said.
• 58:46
  It's not, it doesn't, it isn't a magical thing that happens.
• 58:49
  It's actually based on your training, your effort, your work
• 58:52
  to get and access that place. And you know, other flow
• 58:55
  triggers include like high consequences, you know, they're
• 58:58
  high consequences. People like talking about how he
• 59:01
  announced this, he called it, he called the shot, he created
• 59:04
  incredibly high consequences. That's actually a lever to push
• 59:08
  you into flow, right? So it was actually skillful.
• 59:11
  It was very vulnerable, and it was very brave to do that.
• 59:15
  But for someone like Josh, he can alchemize pressure.
• 59:19
  He likes it, he eats it up. He wants the pressure right
• 59:23
  because it raises his level of performance.
• 59:27
  Even though he finished that race solo, which is another,
• 59:31
  another could be an impediment to somebody.
• 59:33
  I've heard you talk about it. You know, it's rough.
• 59:35
  Are you running your fastest when it's just you, you know, do
• 59:38
  we need someone chasing us right on our shoulder?
• 59:41
  In this case, he didn't need that.
• 59:44
  He was running the race for himself.
• 59:46
  He was running it purely in his body.
• 59:50
  And coming up to the race that whole week in London, that's
• 59:53
  really all we practiced. There was a lot of, you know,
• 59:57
  talking. It was more presence, it was
• 1:00:01
  rendering. He mentioned putting the
• 1:00:03
  whiteboards away two weeks out and, and, and all that kind of
• 1:00:06
  stuff. Race day, we've arrived.
• 1:00:09
  You know, it took us a while, but we've gotten to race day
• 1:00:12
  now. And Danny and I think Josh has
• 1:00:17
  to him like shut the cage door for him before that.
• 1:00:21
  I guess. What's your final touch point
• 1:00:23
  with Josh that morning? On the warm.
• 1:00:26
  Up track like what? What?
• 1:00:27
  What was the last thing that that you 2 discussed?
• 1:00:32
  OK, that's a great question. Yeah.
• 1:00:34
  So we would have a morning session that week, and we went
• 1:00:40
  to this park, I think Queen Elizabeth Park, right around the
• 1:00:42
  corner from where he was staying.
• 1:00:45
  There's this nice little Knoll, grassy and so forth.
• 1:00:48
  And, you know, have him kick off his shoes, groundings, real Reed
• 1:00:53
  Stanford's work on it. So feet on the ground, breath
• 1:00:59
  embodiment. Really the last conversation was
• 1:01:03
  just stay in your body, stay out of your head.
• 1:01:07
  That was it. That was it.
• 1:01:10
  That was it, because his body was ready.
• 1:01:11
  His body was there and the only bottleneck, the only thing that
• 1:01:15
  would stop him is if his head got in the way and he said it.
• 1:01:18
  I just needed to get out of my own way.
• 1:01:19
  And this is really typical for most athletes.
• 1:01:22
  Our most achievers of any type is we get in our own way, we
• 1:01:26
  overthink, we don't trust. It requires a deep sense of
• 1:01:31
  trust. So being embodied, being present
• 1:01:33
  is just trust yourself, trust the work you've put in, trust
• 1:01:36
  your coaches, trust your team. Just trust.
• 1:01:42
  You're sitting in the stands watching when he's being
• 1:01:47
  introduced. I enjoyed the fact that, like,
• 1:01:50
  he cracked a smile before the start of the race.
• 1:01:54
  What did you what? What did you notice, I guess, of
• 1:01:56
  how he was walking out onto the track or carrying himself on the
• 1:01:59
  starting line? He was relaxed.
• 1:02:01
  He was in his body. I mean, I knew he was
• 1:02:03
  practicing. He was doing it, He was
• 1:02:05
  practicing, he was practicing. And so I knew.
• 1:02:10
  I knew he had it. You know what I knew is as they
• 1:02:14
  took off from the line, 'cause I, I did work with Brandon
• 1:02:17
  Kidder was worth talking about. I do work with him directly as a
• 1:02:21
  teammate, Brooks athlete. We worked very specifically for
• 1:02:26
  this particular event, but also for for Brandon.
• 1:02:29
  He had an amazing race last week.
• 1:02:32
  That finish was awesome. He unlocked another level and
• 1:02:35
  his career as a, as an 11 year veteran, I mean, he's unlocking
• 1:02:38
  new levels as well. And I worked with Zan, I, I only
• 1:02:41
  met him just a few days before and we did do some work
• 1:02:44
  together. And, and what I call this is
• 1:02:46
  linking their nervous systems because their, their goal was to
• 1:02:50
  be in Group flow because they were working as a team.
• 1:02:53
  And I knew he had it when they took off the line.
• 1:02:56
  And the image I got in my head was you ever watch jets in
• 1:03:03
  formation like come together and lock?
• 1:03:07
  They locked and I knew it. They were just in perfect sync.
• 1:03:11
  And watching Brandon, I mean, that's where most of my
• 1:03:14
  attention was for those first two laps for that 800 was on
• 1:03:17
  Brandon, his body position, his running, he was relaxed.
• 1:03:21
  He was super focused. I, I knew where his mind was,
• 1:03:24
  his mindset, he was running that for Josh.
• 1:03:27
  That's how he showed up. That was one of his motivational
• 1:03:30
  anchors and mindsets is like, I'm doing this for him.
• 1:03:33
  He trusted me. He's counting on me.
• 1:03:36
  I'm showing up for him and I'm doing it for him and I'm going
• 1:03:39
  to give him my best. And that's something Josh does
• 1:03:41
  with the people around him. He raises the bar.
• 1:03:43
  Everybody wants to raise their bar with him, me included,
• 1:03:47
  right? He comes with such an ethics,
• 1:03:50
  such a work ethic that you want to meet him there, that you
• 1:03:55
  can't give him a less than your best.
• 1:03:56
  And I saw it and I saw Brandon and I was right sitting right
• 1:04:00
  where he peeled off. And we talked.
• 1:04:03
  We worked on that. Like when you peel off, there
• 1:04:05
  has to be 0 turbulence because what you're doing is just
• 1:04:09
  opening right. You're opening the space for
• 1:04:12
  him. Wherever you peel off, it just
• 1:04:14
  needs to be super smooth. And he just peeled off super
• 1:04:17
  smooth, just very quiet. And even Josh described it.
• 1:04:22
  Oh, he's peeling off perfect. You know, it was just perfect.
• 1:04:25
  It was just right. Whatever it was, it was just
• 1:04:27
  right. And so I knew he had it in that
• 1:04:30
  moment and I saw it, you know, he's relaxed.
• 1:04:32
  Brandon was relaxed. You know, Zan's a, you know,
• 1:04:35
  he's a journeyman man. He knows how to work.
• 1:04:37
  He's got that Eastern European like fucking.
• 1:04:39
  I'm out there plowing the field and pulling the potatoes.
• 1:04:41
  He was, I, I knew he was going to do his job.
• 1:04:45
  And it just was clicking. Everything was clicking.
• 1:04:50
  And you could just see it. And it was in their demeanor
• 1:04:52
  there. You know, that smile just meant
• 1:04:54
  ease. And it's confidence.
• 1:04:57
  There's a difference between arrogance and confidence.
• 1:05:00
  We have to own our confidence, right?
• 1:05:04
  And he earned it. And so he felt confident.
• 1:05:06
  He knew he was ready and I could see it.
• 1:05:09
  You could see it. I think the crowd can see it.
• 1:05:11
  And you know, he used that too. The crowd was amazing.
• 1:05:15
  What an amazing crowd. They were there for him.
• 1:05:18
  And he said it. I, I would, he would actually,
• 1:05:21
  this is the level of flow he achieved is that he was
• 1:05:23
  controlling it because he said I would just open up my hearing a
• 1:05:27
  little bit to hear the crowd and then just take that in and it
• 1:05:31
  would give him fuel. When Zan peels off is obviously
• 1:05:37
  when the pundits never been watching anticipates this to get
• 1:05:42
  harder for Josh and it's will he hold it together enough to and
• 1:05:48
  you know, not not just catch the lights stay ahead of them and
• 1:05:52
  Josh just crushed it. What's happening, I guess in
• 1:05:56
  your debrief with him internally once you know Zan and Brandon
• 1:05:59
  have have have peeled off? Yeah, he just got slingshotted,
• 1:06:05
  you know, and that was something that that we talked about in
• 1:06:07
  rehearsing that these guys are breaking wind for you to open a
• 1:06:10
  space and all you have to do is drop into it.
• 1:06:13
  And I saw he did it. He just flowed through it,
• 1:06:17
  right? And it was, it was a Herculean
• 1:06:19
  effort. He was at ease.
• 1:06:22
  He did something very difficult with ease.
• 1:06:25
  Does that make sense? You know, it's, it's, it was
• 1:06:27
  like a duality, but duality is just part of life.
• 1:06:29
  That those two things could exist.
• 1:06:31
  That pace was fucking blistering, right?
• 1:06:34
  And you know, you're a runner, you know, it feels like you're
• 1:06:37
  on the edge of exploding. But his relationship to that
• 1:06:40
  tempo was so intimate that it was comfortable that he knew it.
• 1:06:45
  He was OK. It's like the cold plunge.
• 1:06:47
  I'm comfortable. It's a it's a kind of imagery I
• 1:06:50
  use. It's like you have to invite the
• 1:06:52
  pain in like your lover, like your muse.
• 1:06:56
  And when she's there and you're intimate, you're holding her.
• 1:07:00
  You're so happy because you know you're doing it right, Right.
• 1:07:04
  And there is this ease and he just kept flowing into it.
• 1:07:07
  He kept leaning into it and he kept surrendering to the pace.
• 1:07:10
  He just kept letting it come, letting it come moment by
• 1:07:14
  moment. There was never a hiccup.
• 1:07:15
  And I saw it. He just like it was like he was
• 1:07:18
  getting pulled down the river. No effort.
• 1:07:21
  It looked it felt effortless to him, even though he was at a
• 1:07:25
  high level of output and effort physiologically.
• 1:07:28
  The alarm bells were quiet. Like, we're not gonna die.
• 1:07:32
  Everything's OK. Like the systems are on.
• 1:07:35
  And you could see it. You could see it in his
• 1:07:38
  physicality. You could see it as he came
• 1:07:40
  down. That, that, you know, the home
• 1:07:42
  stretch, that smile. He was flying.
• 1:07:46
  Yeah. He's running 16 plus miles an
• 1:07:49
  hour. Is incredible, unbelievable.
• 1:07:54
  So he does this, achieves it and you know, the whole world
• 1:07:59
  explodes with just joy and exultation because it was
• 1:08:03
  remarkable, something that so many people have gone after for
• 1:08:08
  the last, you know, 20 plus years and it finally happened.
• 1:08:13
  What is important about handling the come down from something
• 1:08:19
  like this 'cause he does have, then he goes out and you know,
• 1:08:22
  achieves gold at the Commonwealth Games.
• 1:08:24
  There's still a little bit of a season left ahead.
• 1:08:29
  But what what's important about I guess managing this was all
• 1:08:33
  all he was all in on on this and it was a lot.
• 1:08:38
  And so not to get greedy with fitness and that kind of thing.
• 1:08:41
  Like what? What's important about these
• 1:08:43
  weeks that have got by since? OK, getting back to his process,
• 1:08:50
  right, So there, there are a couple elements here, right?
• 1:08:53
  And it was something we talked about.
• 1:08:54
  I said if this happens, your life is going to change.
• 1:08:57
  Things are going to be very different.
• 1:08:58
  You are not going to be the same.
• 1:09:00
  Things will be different from one, just the effort of the
• 1:09:05
  actual event itself and so forth.
• 1:09:07
  But the byproduct of it, you know, he, I think he did 11
• 1:09:10
  hours of press the next day. I said that's going to be super
• 1:09:14
  disruptive because that's hard for him, even though he's really
• 1:09:17
  good in front of the camera and it's kind of fun and so forth.
• 1:09:20
  I said you have to be ready and you have to keep using your same
• 1:09:23
  practices, staying grounded, staying present.
• 1:09:26
  Don't don't let it overwhelm your cognitive plate because you
• 1:09:30
  do have a season in your, you know, Commonwealth was very
• 1:09:32
  important to him, but you know, you weren't thinking about that.
• 1:09:36
  You can't think about that. That's time traveling, right?
• 1:09:40
  You don't want to be thinking about that.
• 1:09:41
  So I said, just stay present and enjoy it.
• 1:09:44
  Enjoy what you earned. Enjoy that moment and have fun.
• 1:09:49
  You earn the fun part of it. Because for a lot of people that
• 1:09:52
  that are seeking big, big things, big goals, and they
• 1:09:56
  achieve them. Often there's a deflating moment
• 1:09:58
  like, oh, I got it now what? Right.
• 1:10:01
  And then they never give themselves the opportunity to
• 1:10:04
  enjoy that process, right? And so for him, it was like,
• 1:10:08
  enjoy it, like have fun with it, really take it all in, like
• 1:10:13
  integrate that into your system because that's you're different
• 1:10:16
  now. There's something you're going
• 1:10:17
  to be looked at differently, but you are fundamentally have have
• 1:10:20
  changed, right. And so that was an important
• 1:10:23
  part of it. And he wrote me and we saw each
• 1:10:26
  other that night. We had dinner as a team.
• 1:10:30
  There's a Brooks event and then dinner as a team.
• 1:10:32
  Oh, that was funny too. At the Brooks event, you know, I
• 1:10:35
  I saw him on the sideline, you know, I just touched him really
• 1:10:37
  quick and gave him a hug. First time I saw him and he came
• 1:10:40
  walking right up to me and I'm like, how'd it feel?
• 1:10:44
  He's like easy. The high fived he when I got
• 1:10:48
  pulled away immediately. But but I got lost on my train
• 1:10:55
  of thought where I wanted to take this.
• 1:10:56
  But yeah, the key was to be present.
• 1:10:59
  And as he was leaving London, he wrote me and he goes, I'm, I'm
• 1:11:03
  having landing's a little hard right now because you're high.
• 1:11:08
  It's he's in a fairy tale basically at this point, right?
• 1:11:11
  You know, one that he wrote, you know, he's the protagonist.
• 1:11:14
  He wrote the story through his effort, through his work, right.
• 1:11:18
  And, and here it is the happy ending.
• 1:11:21
  And so it's, it is hard there. It's it's this otherworldly
• 1:11:23
  feeling, right, almost that you can have.
• 1:11:26
  And so, but he said, I'm doing our grounding exercises every
• 1:11:29
  morning. And I said that's all I needed
• 1:11:31
  to know. You're just back to the work,
• 1:11:33
  you're back to it. So the key was to move back into
• 1:11:36
  the same process because he had Commonwealth coming up, which
• 1:11:39
  was very important too. It was beautiful because he ran
• 1:11:43
  that race in the same way. And I said, just keep the
• 1:11:44
  momentum, keep the momentum, keep riding the wave, right?
• 1:11:49
  Stay on the wave, stay on the wave.
• 1:11:51
  And you know how to do that Grounding, centering, presence.
• 1:11:55
  And, you know, I knew he did it as I watched the Commonwealth
• 1:11:59
  Games, the ease, there was a new level of kind of ease and sense
• 1:12:03
  of confidence. He was riding, his training, his
• 1:12:05
  fitness. And I said, just keep carrying
• 1:12:07
  it through. And, you know, he came home.
• 1:12:09
  He was a little under the weather for a week, which makes
• 1:12:11
  perfect sense. He's been traveling all the
• 1:12:13
  intensity. You know, it has an effect on
• 1:12:15
  your Physiology. His body wanted him to relax.
• 1:12:17
  He relaxed for a little bit. And he's back to training the
• 1:12:21
  other day before yesterday and he's back at it.
• 1:12:23
  You know, I'll see him tomorrow. He's just back to the rhythm of
• 1:12:26
  the routine. It's the consistency.
• 1:12:27
  Process leads to outcome and he's very good at process.
• 1:12:31
  That's what he does year round. You know, he maintains his
• 1:12:35
  racing weight real close to it all the time.
• 1:12:37
  He doesn't have any massive changes or anything.
• 1:12:39
  His sleep routine's the same. You know, everything.
• 1:12:43
  Consistency, our our brains and bodies, like predictability,
• 1:12:47
  right? There's enough uncertainty in
• 1:12:49
  the world and that's friction. So, you know, getting back to
• 1:12:52
  the routine, that was the way to handle it.
• 1:12:54
  Even with the new stuff, just being open to it, right?
• 1:12:58
  Being open to it, letting it flow through him, engaging it as
• 1:13:01
  it came, enjoying it, It was pretty fun.
• 1:13:07
  No, it was fun to watch, you know, all the content that came
• 1:13:10
  out of it and you know, every interview that he's done since
• 1:13:15
  to recount it. So I feel like even after this
• 1:13:18
  conversation, I think what did I say before that maybe 50% less
• 1:13:22
  than that has been told and is out there.
• 1:13:24
  Maybe we hit 51% after all of this and there's still tons out
• 1:13:30
  there. So kind of want to close it out
• 1:13:32
  because you know, what Josh did is certainly like, even there's
• 1:13:38
  pro athletes who wouldn't go to the level that he did, you know,
• 1:13:43
  of commitment toward this one goal.
• 1:13:46
  And that's fine. Like a lot of people are happy
• 1:13:49
  just, you know, being where they're at and seeing what they
• 1:13:52
  can do. But Josh levelled it up.
• 1:13:54
  Now for the common folks like say myself or many of the people
• 1:13:59
  who are listening to this, they're not out there chasing a
• 1:14:01
  world record, but they might be getting ready for a 5K or A10K
• 1:14:06
  this weekend or Saturday morning.
• 1:14:07
  What is something from this, all the work that you've done with
• 1:14:12
  Josh that they could steal for their own sort of practice?
• 1:14:16
  Yeah, that and I love that question.
• 1:14:18
  Thank you for asking that because I think that's very
• 1:14:21
  important. We're talking about this, you
• 1:14:22
  know, kind of otherworldly world class event and so forth.
• 1:14:26
  But how does that show up for the rest of us that maybe
• 1:14:29
  aren't, you know, that dedicated, we have jobs,
• 1:14:32
  families, all those things. But but running's important to
• 1:14:34
  me. For example, it's, you know,
• 1:14:35
  it's something I love to do. Curiosity, be curious, what are
• 1:14:40
  you capable of within the constraints of your training?
• 1:14:43
  Can I do this to my best ability?
• 1:14:46
  Can I really invest in that without limitation?
• 1:14:51
  You know, showing up, doing my best and just being curious,
• 1:14:56
  what am I able to do today? What could I do?
• 1:14:58
  And then, you know, picking up practices like breath
• 1:15:01
  regulation. So that's the first one is, is
• 1:15:04
  get intimate with your mind. You know, meditation begins
• 1:15:06
  with, you know, focusing our attention on sensory experience.
• 1:15:10
  But the advanced practice is now I notice my thoughts, my
• 1:15:13
  emotions and my feelings and I start getting to know myself and
• 1:15:17
  how I think and how I work, noticing when I'm holding myself
• 1:15:21
  back, noticing when I'm excelling, you know, and playing
• 1:15:25
  with that a little bit. So I, I think everyone should
• 1:15:28
  have some type of contemplative practice, you know, learn to
• 1:15:32
  breathe, right, learn to pay attention to your body less
• 1:15:35
  thinking more on present effort. Like whether you're training or
• 1:15:39
  you're competing, that's something we can all do and just
• 1:15:42
  doing our best and not being so hard on ourselves sometimes, you
• 1:15:45
  know, like I didn't do enough, I wasn't, you know, etcetera,
• 1:15:49
  etcetera, etcetera. The critic that we live with in
• 1:15:51
  our head, I think that's one of the best things that we can do.
• 1:15:54
  Be curious if you really love running and you want to just do
• 1:15:57
  well in your 5 case, like be curious, what can I do today?
• 1:16:00
  Could I, you know, increase my tempo?
• 1:16:01
  Could I, you know, do recover a little bit better?
• 1:16:04
  You know, could I learn, you know, a little bit from podcasts
• 1:16:07
  like this and, you know, take these little Nuggets and, and
• 1:16:10
  apply them to my life. So bringing some more curiosity
• 1:16:12
  into your training, into your racing, having some fun with it.
• 1:16:16
  I think that's important. Well, I'm so glad we got to to
• 1:16:19
  connect because you know, you've been behind the scenes for so
• 1:16:22
  long as one of Josh's secret weapons.
• 1:16:25
  And I'll be sure to share with folks in the show notes how they
• 1:16:29
  could get in touch with you if they, you know, want to reach
• 1:16:31
  out or more. But you're not taking on any
• 1:16:34
  other elite 1500 meter runners as as clients.
• 1:16:38
  Yeah, I have a special relationship with Josh for that.
• 1:16:41
  But you know, anybody else that's that's out there and
• 1:16:43
  interested and, you know, I like working with organizations,
• 1:16:46
  teams, you know, on these themes and happy to talk to anyone.
• 1:16:52
  Actually, my world kind of blew up after the the race.
• 1:16:55
  I've been getting a lot of DMS and and requests, which is fun.
• 1:17:00
  And even for Josh, he wants people to to explore this
• 1:17:04
  aspect. You know, your, your
• 1:17:05
  psychological states really matter.
• 1:17:10
  It's something to work with. It's, you know, our mental
• 1:17:12
  health is as important as our physical health and it's
• 1:17:15
  something we can develop, it's something that we can practice
• 1:17:18
  and something we can strengthen and sports a great environment
• 1:17:21
  to do that in because we challenge ourselves.
• 1:17:23
  We kind of find our edges. And so that's available to all
• 1:17:26
  of us in our personal journey, right, our hero's journey.
• 1:17:31
  Well, thanks again for for the time and excited to see what
• 1:17:34
  else is in store for for Josh and the beast the rest of me
• 1:17:37
  too. Yeah.
• 1:17:40
  All right, that's a wrap on today's episode.
• 1:17:42
  Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for
• 1:17:45
  making this show part of your routine or your run.
• 1:17:48
  A big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair and to everyone
• 1:17:51
  behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Magic Podcast
• 1:17:54
  happen. If you enjoyed today's episode,
• 1:17:56
  a quick five star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify helps
• 1:17:58
  people find this show and we read every single one.
• 1:18:02
  You can find muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com
• 1:18:05
  and you can follow along across all of Sidious Mag social
• 1:18:07
  channels. We'll see you next time.
• 1:18:09
  Thanks again for listening.