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NYPD Sergeant Edgar Ortiz · NYPD Through The Looking Glass

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with retired NYPD sergeant and author Edgar Ortiz.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: His new book, Surviving the Streets, 23 Years from the Brooklyn Trenches to Counterterrorism, is available on Amazon.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll post the link in the comments section of this interview.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Edgar Ortiz, welcome to the show.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing, Vic?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you coming on the show, Edgar.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Edgar, please tell our listeners a little something about yourself.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh my name is uh Eddie Ortiz.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I'm a retired sergeant with the NYPD.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I did 23 years.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I started in June of 2018.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I started in June of 1995 and I retired in June of 2018.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I started in the 77 precinct.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I did about six years there.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: I went from there to the Brooklyn South Gang Squad in 2002.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: In 2004, I got promoted to sergeant.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I went to PSA 3.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was there for a couple months, and then I got drafted to the 7.5 Precinct under Operation Trident.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I was there for about a year, and then uh I tried to get back to the Detective Bureau, which was uh the gang squad at the time was under the Detective Bureau.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I tried to get back there, and uh, like you know, I had to go before the board as a supervisor and I got drafted to IAB.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I was there for a few years.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I left there.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got the money in IAB, and uh I left there after about five years, and I went to the 120 squad.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was there for a couple years, and then I I was asked to go to the uh newly formed uh Grand Larceny Division, which was working out at the 121 precinct, so it was nice to experience a new command for the first time in my career.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I went to counterterrorism from there, and I uh I got to counterterrorism in 2015 and I did my last three years there.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So where where did you grow up?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually from Patterson, New Jersey.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was born in Patterson, New Jersey to uh Puerto Rican parents, and uh I spent the first 25 years of my life in Jersey.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's funny because my first six years I grew up uh what you would say like the inner part of the city there, uh closer to the downtown area.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I can remember that across the street from where I grew up, there was, I guess, what I could identify now as the department's Patterson Police Department's Fleet Services Division.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I would see all these cars lining up and you know, guys working on the cars, and I was intrigued by that, even as a young kid, you know, because I was maybe five years old playing in the yard just observing this stuff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was intrigued by it, really, really interested in it.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So uh thankfully for us, my parents moved us up to the north side of the of Patterson, which was right on the border of a town named Haldon, which is a very nice place to live.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's it was like completely removed from the inner city uh issues, and you know, and uh that town was really quiet.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, maybe it had three to four police cars to the entire police department, you know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I used to see those guys all the time, and you know, I was just super impressed with the uniform and the leather jackets and stuff, and just the way they responded to jobs, and I could see them filling out, you know, the reports after an accident or something.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like so intrigued by it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, that's what I want to do when I get older.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I uh I started taking tests, you know.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I I graduated high school, I didn't go to college because I knew that I didn't really need college.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: My brother was going to school for nursing, and I wanted to kind of give my dad a little bit of a break on the financial side.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, I know you don't need uh a degree to get into law enforcement, and that's what I want to do.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I got lucky.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I got a job working construction.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a job with a mausoleum building company, and it was a great experience.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I did it for like five years before I got on the police department.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot, I had a great time, but you know, uh that that yearning to be a cop was was still alive within me, and I I wanted to, you know, do what I needed to do.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was also thinking, you know, down the road, I had a long-term vision.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said, yeah, the money's great.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing good, but my body's only gonna do this for so long.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted, I wanted a career, I wanted benefits, and I wanted something I could rely on down the road.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I never lost sight of, you know, wanting to get on the job.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh so one day, I don't know.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I never really frequented New York City.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't go into the city, I had no desire to be an NYPD officer, and I don't, I don't really remember what happened.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I guess destiny brought me into the city one day, and I'm walking around and I see a posting on a on a command, you know, that the test is coming out.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I walk in a little nervous and I'm like, man, and I approach, I guess what I could envision now is like the one two four room, but in my recollection, it was almost like I was at the foot of the desk, but that's almost impossible because nobody gets that close, right?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm thinking, I may, I may have been, I may have been at like, you know, the barrier at the 124 room or something.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess the ADO must have been standing by and I caught his eye and he sees me, he asks me where I needed, and I said, Oh, I'm just here inquiring about the test.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was hoping maybe you can tell me what it's about or whatever.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: He like sizes me up for about a second or two, and he says, You have a high school diploma?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he thinks about it for another two seconds.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: He says, You'll be all right.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he gives me the application, and then I walk out the door.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like the the little boost I needed, you know, to feel like, okay, maybe I could do this.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I take the test.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's 1919.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I take the test, and uh, and you know, back then everybody wanted to be a cop, everybody was taking a test, thousands of applicants, and I didn't hear back anything for like two years.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then I finally get the letter, you know, we want you, so now I'm nervous.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a squeaky clean, I think I'm a squeaky clean kid from New Jersey.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all I had was maybe some accidents and some speeding, you know, some of this.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to the 2-6 to to deal with my uh investigator, and I have a brand new Mustang GT.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm afraid.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is way out of my league, right?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I take a friend or a family member with me.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I walk into the 2-6 precinct, and the game starts right away.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they're ignoring me.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: They know who I am because of the way I'm dressed, right?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So the game starts right away.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm waiting what seems like 20 minutes, and finally someone approaches me and says, uh, yeah, what do you what do you need?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, Oh, I'm here to see Torado.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: The guy blew a gasket.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's Officer Torado to you.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you think you're talking to?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Go sit in the corner.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was so taken aback, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my God, this is crazy.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you wouldn't believe it, Vic, but they let me sit there for about another three hours.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I believe it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: So finally the guy comes over to me and he says to me, uh, yeah, uh, you're an investigator.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's on vacation.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yo, you gotta be kidding me.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this guy's on vacation.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: You knew it when I walked through the door, and you let me sit here for three hours.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know now it was all a mind game to see what I would tolerate, what I would put up with, you know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: But back then, I'm 22 years old.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like my tolerance was not what it became later on.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he sits me down and he gives me this sheet with a laundry list of stuff that I needed.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: You already know the drill.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I want letters for all these summonses you say you got.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I want letters from the insurance companies that you've never been sued.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want everything.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my God, can you?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine if I actually had a history, what would you know, what I would be going through.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I walked out of there, never to look back.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I said, This is this is unbelievable.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm making good money working in construction, I'm getting treated decent.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: This guy treated me like total garbage.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I said, There's no way I need this.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I left, never to look back, continued working construction.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Vic, I'm washing my car.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Another two years goes by, I'm washing my car, and I get a letter asking me if I'm still interested in that, you know, the list is about to expire.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit more mature now, thinking things through.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Things aren't coming up in Jersey with any departments.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to, you know, think, think about my life a little seriously now.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I decide, listen, if you really want this job, you're gonna have to do what it takes because it's not gonna, you know, be be served to you on a silver platter.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I did, man.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I contacted my investigator and I got the ball rolling and I got into the academy in in June of 95.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the best decision I ever made.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think of the police academy?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the academy was, like I said, because I because I had a little bit of a of a of a you know of a working background, you know, I I was already kind of had the discipline to to just follow the rules and know that this is all part of the game and the structure to kind of mold you.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think I came in a little bit more prepared than the kids that come right out of school or right out of college.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh it wasn't too, it wasn't too bad for me at all.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that half the back is wanting to be there.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wanted to be there, and so I embraced it and I I did the best I could.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't run to save my life, and as you know, I got a funny story about that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, I I love the academy as far as the you know, the system, the way it was, and you know, it was good.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the hardest thing in the world, it wasn't super easy either.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I thought it was good.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if I don't know if it was like this in the past, but when I was in the academy, that was the very first class that they decided to go the nine months.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was the very first one, and what they decided to do, they were gonna put us through um six months, and then they were gonna give us our gun and shield in December, and then they would put us out to commands for a month, and then we'd come back and we wouldn't get out till March of 96.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's exactly how it went.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if if you remember the blizzard of 96, that kind of extended everything.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we were out there in the snow doing traffic and stuff like that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I know that back in the day, you know, I guess in the late 80s, they would give you your gun while in the academy for like a month or so, and then they stopped it.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like they would send you out the same way during that six-month period.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: They would send you out with your gun and shield, from what I understand, and then you would come back to finish out some time in the academy.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then for some reason they stopped it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, when I got there, they implemented it again.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a nine-month-long academy with 30 days out on uh troll.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: They they put us in, I did uh I did a week in housing, I did a week in transit, and I did two weeks in uh in the police department.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, one in the 2012 precinct, and then another one in the 7-0 precinct.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What was your first command?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you go to field training?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: My field training was the 7-7 precinct.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first assignment.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Which I remember getting that assignment in the academy, and my instructor like he just like grinched he he like handed me the you know the the assignment and he just like you know, and almost like he felt sorry for me and he just said, Yeah, or tease, you know, 7-7.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it looked at me, and I didn't know any better because I'm from Jersey.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: To me, 7-7, 111, it didn't mean anything to me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like, why are why is everyone looking at me like, you know, they feel bad for me?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So 7-7's a busy precinct.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember your first homicide there?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I do.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's unfortunate.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it's a it was a sad, sad story, and uh, I still remember it today.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, I had about maybe five years in at the time.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on patrol uh one good Friday.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was a good Friday.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's anticipated, you know, slow day.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm on patrol and I'm on one side of the command, and uh one of the summons guys is on the far side of the command, and there's a call for help that comes over the radio, and he, I guess, decides wants to do the right thing and help out with the jobs, and he picks it up.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's supposed to be a routine job.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm on the other side of the command, and I hear it, and uh about 10 minutes later he shows himself 84, and then he says to, you know, he says to Central, can can you have another unit respond?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I could just tell by the sound of his voice that something wasn't right.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could pick that up after a few years in a busy command.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I started racing in that direction without even, you know, thinking about it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we get there and he tells us, man, he goes, uh, you know, I I approached the apartment and I, you know, I knock on a door and it was ajar a little bit, and so I figured I'd push it in.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, neighbor said there was uh some sort of dispute or some sort of struggle inside.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: He says he's he pushed the door a little bit and it opened a little bit, but then it kind of stopped like it hit something.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point, he decided he's gonna keep pushing the door, keep pushing the door, and he realizes that there's a body on the other side, and he pushes the door open, and there's this woman and laying in like a pool of blood with what with what look like you know multiple uh stab wounds there.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Later on, determined to be about 20 stab wounds.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So now, you know, the ball gets rolling, squad gets called out to the scene, investigation gets started, and um we get information that it was her child uh her 17-year-old son that she had had a dispute with, and and he stabbed her to death and left the scene.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So things kind of slow down, this crime scene is getting processed, and and uh I get put out on the street to, you know, to control traffic a little bit, and then there was like a rookie uh in front of the location, he's just standing there.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a short time later, I see this young man walk up to the rookie and says something to the rookie, and the rookie, like again, you can see that body language, he kind of freezes up and then he looks over at me, like, and I look at him, and that was all I needed to see.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I get out of the car right away and I and I walk up to him and and I go, What's going on?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Oh, he he this is this is uh the lady's son.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I said to the guy, I said, Do you live in an apartment such and such?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to ask him any incriminating questions.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you live in apartments such and such?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he just says to me, I'll I'll tell you guys everything.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So right away I cuff him up for my safety and I'm like, listen, so I get on the radio, can you have the squad, you know, come out to the front of the location?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And of course I'm bothering them, right?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm a rookie and you know, even with five years, they don't want nothing to do with you.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is that, what is that, what is that portable need?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I said, Well, you know, I have the you know, I have a person of interest here for, you know, wants it for the homicide.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: They came running out of that building like roaches, you know what I mean?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, so naturally what happens, you know, right away, they're like, listen, listen, kid, thanks for the thanks for the apprehension, but you know, this is ours, you know.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I look at my sergeant and then, you know, they come over, let's take the cuffs off, and and I and I look at my bush, I'm like, take the cuffs off.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this this kid just like mutilated his mother.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about, you know?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So he's like, Yeah, take them off.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to give it to the squad.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't care about that.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: In the end, I knew that I assisted and contributed to that, you know, bringing justice to the family.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that was definitely one of those that was very grueling and brutal to see, you know.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: The 7-7 is a very busy precinct.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like in the summertime, how many jobs a night were you guys answering?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I I I I'll be honest with you, I didn't keep track of the jobs because I was very fortunate.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I guess in in my in my opinion, I was very fortunate that when I got there, I I was on a foot post, and then um soon thereafter, I got I got drafted into the street narcotics enforcement unit because my FTU sergeant was a great guy.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this guy came out of narcotics himself.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: He was a uh he was an undercover, I believe.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this guy was just he was just very knowledgeable.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he took us under his wing and he was allowing us to do things that like you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't see rookies doing.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I still I I don't think today that that new cops are doing what we did as rookies back then.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it was it was timing, I I think, because uh, I don't know if you remember um prior to the Bratton era, uh the department was, you know, plagued with corruption scandals and and they didn't want they didn't want uniforms doing any type of narcotics enforcement.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got there, um there was that change coming about, and it was great for me because I wanted to be a cop.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want any restrictions, you know.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when I got there and they said, you know, the gloves are off, you can do whatever you want, you know, uh and I I was super happy about that.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and there was so much going on that we were making so many narcotics arrests that the sergeant was like, listen, you know, um you guys are doing great.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: He was a uh a motivator and he showed us a lot.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So when an opening, when there was an opening for the street narcotics enforcement unit, they actually gave it to him, the FTU sergeant, and he said, Well, I'll take it as long as I can bring my guys with me because I know what they can do.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: We've been producing this whole time.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he drafted us and he asked us to come in.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we got a little bit of hate because we had two years on the job and a lot of senior guys in the command.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we were doing the work and I felt like we deserved it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we, I mean, we did some great, great work out of that, you know, doing the OPs and everything else.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as a rookie cop, when you were in that unit, you had an arrest where you signed up a perp and had a large heroin seizure.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you go into that?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we're working, and every once in a while, you know, you you you'd go out, you'd go out on patrol or something, you know, if you know you did a big, a big uh a big operation the day before and the half the guys are in court or whatever the case is, so it's a slow day.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we'd we'd go out if they just needed needed people on post.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh RPAA, a real nice lady, uh, she says to me, uh Eddie, I have a problem in my building.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like one of the uh tenants is is selling selling drugs, and you know, it's it's it's a nuisance.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't feel safe.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And can you guys do something?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we went.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Me and my uh old partner, uh Mitch, Robert Mitchell, uh, may he rest in peace.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: He passed away.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: But uh this guy was a great street cop.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: He taught me everything I knew.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we go and we we we uh you know we position ourselves above the apartment and we see a guy approach the door and there's a hand-to-hand transaction and he buys a deck of heroin.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we stop him down in the lobby.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was a was a uh you know, a clean-cut guy.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: You could tell he was a professional, he had a shirt and tie on.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think he even had like an ID that he worked for like Con Edison or something like that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we saw that as a great opportunity because this guy's got a lot to lose.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, he's got a family.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't want this going any further than it needs to, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to capitalize on that.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so we decide that we're gonna um we're gonna tell him, listen, you seem like a you seem like a good guy.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you're clean, no warrants, we can promise you that we'll give you a return, a return date, we'll give you a summons for it, you know, and get you out of here, and uh and you'll have to answer down the road.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if if if you don't work with us, then we're gonna put you through the system and then your wife's gonna find out and everything else.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he was willing to play ball.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't want his job finding out or anything.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he was willing to get signed up as a CI.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We took him down to the DA's office, we signed up a search warrant, and we already had the experience because our sergeant was so good at showing us all this stuff.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: We hit the place, we hit it nice and early in the morning.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: The the person had, you know, a fresh stash.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think she had like a bundle of like 100, 150 decks.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as we hit her, and it was a female selling out of the apartment.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we hit the place, we get like 150 decks, then we, you know, we debrief her and she's got like three kids, and we're like, same game.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, we can either do this the legit way or we can do this kind of taking everyone into consideration.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's up to you.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, we need you to do something for us, though.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna call your supplier and tell them that you need to get re-upped.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's what you're gonna do for us, and what we're gonna do for you is take care of you and your kids, you know?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So uh sure enough, she calls up, she tells the supplier, yeah, listen, I'm I'm out, I'm having a great morning.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can you bring me more?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we intercept this guy with another hundred and something Dex of Heroin.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, great job for two rookies.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Great job.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the crazy ironic thing, and I want to pay tribute to to him also because he was a great guy.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when we first get the collar, we're on patrol, you know, our sergeant was in court, I believe.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have a supervisor respond to verify the arrest.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, guess who shows up?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Rodney Gillis from ESU, who passed away on 9-11.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was a big, he was a big ESU guy.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when he got promoted to sergeant, his uh his first command was the 7-7 as a rookie sergeant.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So he shows up to the job and and we're telling them what we have and we're telling him what we're gonna do.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he's looking at us like, yeah, whatever, like you guys are crazy.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what do you mean?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna sign this guy up as a CI?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was pretty good.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was good times.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I I say to myself that that command, I describe it as a cop manufacturing plant, is what I manufactur is what I is that's what I describe it as because if you wanted to be a cop and you wanted to do the job, there were fewer places where like you really got that experience, you know?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I know the 4-4, there's every everyone's got their their borough commands that are that are heavy, but the 7-7 was definitely amongst them.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: The the busy in the precinct, the tighter the cops are.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you guys play a lot of practical jokes on each other?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't remember playing too many practical jokes, to be honest with you.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I mean, you always got, you know, someone putting the powder in the in in the vents of the vehicle when you got in and you turned on the AC and you get splattered with something, or you know, every once in a while someone's locker would be in the shower.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things like that went on all the time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but nothing that I could really put my my finger on that it was like, you know, a super, super funny moment.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we did execute a search warrant one time, one of the guys on my team.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I don't know what the deal was with him, and I hope he doesn't get mad at for at me for telling this story.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: But so we we get this seizure, like tremendous seizure, like maybe five to ten, fifty-five-gallon drums of that hydro stuff.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: These guys were selling big time.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, the old saying, you know, you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we get in there, he's all excited, and he tells, I told you guys I was gonna get you with your foot in the cookie barrel, he says.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we all look at each other like, oh my god, you come on, bro.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're embarrassing the shit out of us.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he probably busted cookie barrel, probably stuck with him for the rest of his career.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're absolutely right.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know that.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: What what was the bizarreest job in the 7-7 you responded to, if you could think of?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that that job with the uh with the homicide was a was a was a tough job.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I did respond to a home invasion one time where the lady, she lived on the top floor of like a six-story building, and uh there was a home invasion, and she jumps out the back window or like a fire escape, and she hits everything on the way down.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you can imagine what this lady looked like when she hit the ground.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that that to me was a very, very like gruesome type of job that that I always remember.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: About about 10 years before you got to the 7-7, it was a year before I came on the job.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: They had the infamous Buddy Boys corruption scandal where there was a gang of guys from the Midnights that were robbing drug dealers, and then there was a book by Mike McElarry from um, I think it was the Daily News wrote a book about it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I read it actually the year before I came on the job.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Were there any old timers left from the 7-7 when you came there that had stories about those guys?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was one guy that worked in the 124 room.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't rem remember his name right now, but he had over 30 years on at the time, and he was there throughout that whole, that whole situation.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, he didn't give too many details, but but he spoke about, you know, how that how that place was a little crazy and and and all the things that happened when when they finally took down the guys and everything else.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we always had that kind of like over our heads that we were working in the command that had this stigma attached to it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever we made arrests, we tried to be as transparent as possible.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we tried to treat everyone, you know, uh with as much dignity as we could.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So they they realized, listen, we're just doing the job.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're not, you know, we're not out here trying to flake anybody or anything like that.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So working in the 7-7 and you you were basically in a snoo unit, did you guys come across a lot of guns?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: We came we came across a lot of guns.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: The old saying is where there where there are uh drugs, there are guns.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever you, whenever you whenever you stop somebody, regardless of what you think they're doing, like it was ingrained in you to make sure you give that guy a good toss first and foremost.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh it's easy to get caught up in the distractions.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I have a little story about that too.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: When I was in the gang squad, and even when I was in Snoop, um I had an experience going to Brooklyn North Narcotics.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, just to finish off on what I was saying, it's important to not get caught in up in the distractions.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You see a guy maybe toss something, and you know, you kind of focus on that, and you could be putting yourself in harm's way, you know, because there you just never know what people are capable of.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well you you once had a 12-year-old point a real looking gun at you, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that that was uh that was let me tell you, that was one for the books.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I'm working a day tour, I'm uh sergeant's operator, and uh we're uh we're going to a location to investigate a shots fired from the day before.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh we get to the scene and we're talking to the complainant.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: They got their cars like riddled with bullets and stuff like that, and and a short time later, passerby motorists pulls up and gets my attention and says, Listen, um, there's a group of kids on the corner.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: John's in uh in class, and there's a group group of kids on the corner, and uh and one of them uh pulled a a revolver out of his right jacket pocket and showed it to his friends as I was driving by, and then he put it back in his pocket.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, She gives me the description.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Thank you very much.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I get the sergeant's attention, I let him know what's going on, and we head to the corner.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: The complaint.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is right there.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: She's hearing the situation where I think it was a male, and he decides that he's going to uh follow us to the corner.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: He just wants to see what's going to play out.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we get to the corner and the kids are on the opposite side of the street.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to get that close because we already have information there's a firearm involved.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the kid, sure enough, was like he was like a 12-year-old, you know, fitting the description.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we get out of the car, I get the kid's attention, I tell him to stop, and he turns and looks at me and gives me that look like he's debating whether he's gonna stay or run.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all going down in seconds, you know, microseconds.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So then he decides he's gonna stay.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, take it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: He's got his hand in his right hand pocket.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes it even a little bit more of a you know serious situation.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I tell him, get your hands out of your pocket.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: He says something, but at this point, you know, you're your adrenaline is through the roof.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're getting that auditory and and visual, you know, uh uh, you know, problem.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I try to get his attention and he pulls the gun out and he points it directly at us.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, What, this?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's he's like normal, what, this?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: He pulls it out for what seems like maybe a second.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: At this point, me and the sergeant have our guns drawn out and like punched right towards the kid.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why we didn't pull the trigger.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Within like a matter of like another microsecond, he drops the gun onto the ground and uh and he just stays there.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we, you know, obviously it it doesn't turn into anything other than what could have been a total nightmare for us because now we approach the kid and we determine that the gun's a toy, you know, and and it was just just thinking back.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember talking to the sergeant, and I I didn't pull the trigger because I I I just saw a 12-year-old.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, the truth is, if he had fired and it would have been a real gun and it killed me, it would have been no different than if a 30-year-old had pulled the trigger.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, but you know, when you when you humanize it and you say to yourself, it's a kid, you know, you don't want to shoot a kid.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked the sergeant, why didn't you pull the trigger?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: He says to me, because I have a 10-year-old son, and all I could see was my, you know, 10 or 12-year-old son.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, it went from, again, when when and we have these encounters all the time in the NYPD, you know, where where this without incident and and it's not sexy, so it doesn't make the news.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: No one cares about it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but when you have that one, that one honest mistake that's made by a cop acting in good faith, and then it makes nationwide news and it's uh the umbrella, the umbrella effect, and and that's the way we operate on a day-to-day basis becomes the narrative, you know?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, one of the running jokes in the NYPD is no cop has ever lost a prisoner.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have a story about an escape prisoner who turned up later thanks to a good Samaritan.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, and again, I was just talking to you about, you know, cops acting in good faith, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most of the time, you know, that's that's where guys get in trouble a lot of times.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You you're trying to do a good job, you're trying to be active, and you're trying to maybe you you take on more than you can handle, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're in snoo, again, another down day for for court purposes.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So me and my partner in a in a car, we're just driving around plain clothes, doing snoo, you know, slash, you know, anti-crime enforcement.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we come, we pull up on like Lincoln and Franklin and we seek, I mean, because it was the the the drug sales out there were were rampant.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was like shooting fish in a barrel, you know, it it really was.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we see a hand-to-hand and we make an apprehension and we put the person in the car.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's great, right?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, hey, you did a good job.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's good.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Take the take the guy back to the command, you know?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow's another day, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But no, we're we want to do, we want to get another body, right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Bring bring back two, the sergeant, make the sergeant happy.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now we roll around the corner and we see what we think is another hand-to-hand about about to happen.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we get out of the car, and it's, I mean, it should have just been an automatic bad idea from the get because I don't want to leave the perp in the car by himself, and I don't want to leave my partner approaching through two, three guys by himself either, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it just doesn't work.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time we're just a little overzealous, trying to do the right thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: We think the door is secure.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what happened.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we get out of the car, and we're right next to the vehicle.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're we're talking to the to the uh to the subjects, and man, I just get this feeling like when the hairs on the back of your head stand up, and you get like this realization of what's really going on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Where?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: What the hell are you doing?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's a perp in the back of the car.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And man, Vic, when I turn and I look, that back door is open and the perp is gone.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And back then, back then, they had just instituted the 30-day automatic suspension because the job was getting tired of it, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I tell my partner, we gotta get, we we lost the perp.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: We got in the we gotta get in the car.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're now we're playing the time game.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to put it over.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know what to do.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's got our let me just stop you.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Had you put it over that you had one under earlier?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I believe we did.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what made it worse.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I believe we did.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: You got your cuffs with the serial number on it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: That guy turns up somewhere with those cuffs.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's that, and that was the big, that was the big decision, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're saying, well, we can pretend like it never happened, but Murphy's law will be that he can't find anyone to get the cuffs off, and he's gonna turn himself in in a couple hours, and he's gonna describe us to a T and we're screwed, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So my buddy, he freaks out and we get in the car and he drives in the direction we think the perp ran, but he's flying.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where I remember like it was yesterday, we're in a Crown Vic, and he's flying.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: He gets from, we go from Franklin to St.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: John's, he makes left, and then he's flying down the road.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we get we're like a quarter mile away from the scene at this point.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, What are you doing?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said, This guy, this guy's not that far.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's in cuffs, like he's not that far.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta go back, we gotta go back.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we go back, and now we're at a at a creek through the block where he first starts running.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And there's like these two blocks between uh between Franklin and and Bedford.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's these two quiet blocks.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Never, nothing ever happened.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think it were called St.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Francis and St.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Charles or something like that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so as we're approaching, like one of them, we're creeping nice and slow, and man, this elderly, you know, woman sent from God was sitting on her porch and she looks down at the car and she does the old, you know, he was underneath the entrance to her house and like, you know, like a like a like an area that was like tucked away under the under the basement entry or something.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And man, we were able to grab this guy and and and uh you know avert a disaster.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was it was crazy.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going back to the camera and we were like, wow, we'll never do that again.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, but they're the learning experiences, you know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: You you say to yourself, you want to do the job, but you gotta do it and you gotta be smart about it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, you're trying to do a good job, and when you get in trouble because you you went you went outside the lines, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: They say you should have known better.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: You should have known better.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think every NYPD cop has that story or knows a guy that that happened to, and it's always just as you said it, it's always when you try to go above and beyond and try to do just a little bit more.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's often not out of laziness, it's the guy says, you know what, maybe I can grab this guy, and then you turn around and then all how and I know the feeling.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: What because I've had to find other people's prisoners, and it's like you're on the clock, and it's like I've only got so much time before I have to report this, or like you said, let's roll the dice and hopefully this guy gets to a body shop and they cut his cuffs off for him, and that'll be the end of it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: But with my luck, his body, you know, this guy's gonna turn up dead with my cuffs on him, and then we're then we're screwed.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So working in the 7-7 precinct, you had to have been exposed many times to the infamous set um West Indian Day Parade.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just describe to our listeners what the West Indian Day Parade is and what what a cop's day entails?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: My God, so the West Indian Day Parade is a parade that happens every year uh around Labor Day.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it basically takes up the entire 7-7 precinct.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It borders the 7-1 from Eastern Parkway all the way across, and you have everyone coming from, you know, the West Indies, uh, all over the place.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, the neighborhood was comprised of mostly West Indian residents and stuff like that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a big celebration.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an entire weekend.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: It starts like the Friday before, and they have the Juve celebrations the night before.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're you're basically when you get those details, you have to prepare to be at work 12, 15 hours minimum.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always a guaranteed shooting or a guaranteed homicide without fail.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's gone on forever, you know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's that's pretty much much it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a long, usually very hot, very uncomfortable detail and nothing to look forward to.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But you made a couple hours if if if you wanted uh, you know, a positive out of it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: You made a couple hours over time.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: So after the 7-7 precinct, working in Brooklyn North, which is the worst part of Brooklyn, you go to the gang squad and and you go to the south of Brooklyn.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: What was that like?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was a little bit of a challenge.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: What happened was uh a mentor of mine, uh, who I mentioned in my book, he was he was awesome.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was uh one of the sergeants that was a rookie sergeant assigned to the 7-7 precinct, and he uh he was an awesome mentor uh to me.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he he told me that uh you know that I should put in to go somewhere else.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he saw a lot of a lot of promise in me and he thought that I should move on after being in the 7-7 for six years.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was a little apprehensive because you know, you know what you know and you're afraid of change.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so this guy was connected, he was well respected on the job, and and he says to me, Where do you want to go?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I don't know where to go.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I would you want to go to the gang squad?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, Man, I don't know anything about gangs, you know.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm thinking, I, you know, you need qualifications, you know.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't want to just be someone put somewhere that can't produce.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh he says, You'll be fine.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: He says, You'll be fine.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so I put in for it, and I think I'm going to Brooklyn North because that's where the spot was and that's where I thought I was going.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a little administrative shakeup, somebody had to get, you know, tossed around a little bit, and so uh there were openings in Brooklyn South, and I needed to fill it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they sent me to Brooklyn South.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that was a little bit of a learning curve because I wasn't familiar with Brooklyn South.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, not knowing the streets and stuff, you feel a little bit, you know, like a fish out of water.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but it didn't take it didn't take long to, you know, to find my way.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked with some really, really great guys.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I had an awesome time, you know, because uh the gang division fell under the Detective Bureau at the time.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we had an investigative team, and then we had uh the suppression team, which is what I was assigned to, and we had undercovers assigned to us too.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my I always say my hat goes off to undercovers, you know what I mean?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like those guys are the ultimate when it comes to putting their lives on the line for for what we do.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, yeah, you know, uh that's on another level, and I have the utmost respect for undercovers.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, so we we uh I went to Brooklyn South, but you know, I was there for a couple years before I got promoted, and and we did some great work.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: We did some great work there.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: What gangs were active in Brooklyn South?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: The Vatos Locos, the Bloods, the Crips, there were, you know, they were all over the place.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of a lot of Mexican gangs, you know what I'm saying?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they were all over the place.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: But like I said, what what we used to do is uh I was on a suppression team, so my job was more of like you go out there again and and more of like an anti-crime capacity, you're making arrests, and then you try to determine whether these people are uh gang, gang uh affiliates or you know, uh belong to any gangs, and then you sign them up and you put them in the database.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you if you if you thought you had someone that may be a gang member, then you call out the i team, the investigative team, and then they would do their interviews and and they would follow up.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we weren't really like technically like experts as far as like what the plays were and what was going on.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: We were more of like, you know, like patrol makes arrests and then Intel, where the FIO and the command does the debriefing on everything that's going on.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the way it was comprised.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: What collar in the gang unit that you made that you were most proud of?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Collar in the gang unit?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we we had a good collar in the gang unit.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I wouldn't say I was I'm proud of it because uh I think it was it, I s I kind of helped uh avert a uh a possible disaster.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but it was an awesome collar.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I wish it would have never happened, but it happened.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we we go out one night and we're sometimes had two cars out there, three cars out there, and uh one of the other teams calls for for an 85 because they had uh they had uh you know one under multiple stop at a at a location in in Brooklyn South.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was in the 6'8 somewhere.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So so we get to the scene and and uh one perp's in custody, he's got cuffs on, and there's like two or three other perps lingering, and uh, and I see uh a bunch of the guys, you know, buy like a an ice chest that's on the corner in front of a bodega.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I approach him and I'm like, hey, what's going on, guys?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: What do you what do you got?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, uh, we think he threw something over here, we don't know.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, all right, well, you know, let me know.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know what you what you got or let me know if you need any help or anything, you know.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had the narcotics experience.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I met these guys in Brooklyn Gang, but I didn't know what their experience was.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: They came from commands that maybe weren't that prevalent in in narcotics sales and stuff.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, everyone comes to the table with different skill sets.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, they kind of gave up on the search.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, coming up empty.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I said, well, let me take a look, you know.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I take a look and I find a couple loose rocks of crack cocaine, you know, under the under the ice chest.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that, you know, gave us the they, you know, gave us the um the PC we needed to make the collar.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: They knew that that the guy did something.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: So now we're now we're getting ready to go back to the to the to the command.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: The sergeant pulls up, great job, guys.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take him back to the command.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I get this, I get this like uh, again, the hairs on the back of your neck kind of stand up.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And because I had an experience when I went out uh for the for the week with Brooklyn North Narcotics when I was first getting into the SNOO unit.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um they sent us out for training, and I had an experience in Brooklyn North Narcotics that stayed with me.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so that night I looked at the perp and I think I was gonna transport him or something.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I I took a look at him and I and and I just took a look at him, and the way he looked at me and kind of like looked away, something told me that something wasn't right.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided at that moment I was gonna approach him and I said to him, Hey, do you have anything you're not supposed to have?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And he just doesn't answer me, you know, and that tells me everything I need to know.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I immediately pat his waistband and I feel something hard.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's a firearm at this point.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I pull his shirt up, and sure enough, he's got a loaded 380 in his waistband.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, we used to joke around, you know, the you know the game, you know, you'd bring a guy back to the precinct and you know, you'd leave one of your guns in the car and then pull it out and say, What the fuck is this?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then the guy would freak you out, thinking that you were like gonna charge him with a gun that wasn't his.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I pulled the 380 out of his waistband and I said, What the fuck is this?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the guys are thinking initially, like, I'm I'm just joking around.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they turn around and they see this not one of the guns we carry, you know.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So uh man, it it it it it got ugly there for a little bit, you know.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And just and nothing happened, but just the thought of what could have happened, because when I I I always like to say I play the tape back when things happened to kind of learn from it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: And my whole thing was this guy was cuffed with a gun in his waistband, and all of his friends were allowed to be right in his immediate vicinity, you know.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: So tactically, that was a recipe for disaster because they knew he had a gun, but we didn't.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there were Spanish kids too.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So all they had to do, if they were really bad guys, was communicate.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, on three, grab the gun and take these guys out, you know?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they would have been able to execute without without a doubt, they would have been able to execute.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, it was it was definitely a learning, a learning experience, and and shame on us for or for for for not not not you know prioritizing the tactics over over the distractions, you know, because that's what gets you in trouble.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you once came across a hand grenade during your time in the gang unit?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a funny, embarrassing moment.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in gangs again, and I'm with another guy, and he's he's he's a good guy.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was an army vet or something like that, and and we're together and we do a car stop, and he's he's on the driver's side and I'm on the passenger side.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we're asking the guy for his paperwork and stuff, and the guy drops his glove box, and I could see there's a grenade in there.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I I don't have a military background, and I, you know, I don't have any experience that he shows grenades in the police academy, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, my God, I freeze up, I don't know what to do.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, holy shit, like this is bad.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I tell I tell my partner, pull him out of the car, because I don't want him getting his hands on that at this point.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So he pulls him out of the car.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't know what I saw or why.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And finally I said, I said to him, I said, bro, I'm gonna hold on to him.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: I said, There's a grenade in the glove box, you know?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, a grenade?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: So he walks over to it and he fucking pulls it out and he goes, Yeah, no, this is a dud.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is, you know, this is hollow, there's nothing in this, you know?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I mean, if I would have been by myself or someone else, we would have called everybody and their mother out to that scene and it would have been super embarrassing, you know?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: He saved, he saved my he saved uh me from a uh a big embarrassment that day.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I mean, you know, different strengths and weaknesses, I always say, is what is comprised of a strong team.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if everyone has the same kind of skill set, then you're not really that you're not really that strong, you know, because uh you need uh you need a little bit of everything.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that military background, it comes in handy.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: After your time as a uh working in the gang unit, you got promoted as sergeant.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first command as a boss?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: I actually went to PSA 3.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I went to PSA 3 as a sergeant.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that was a little new to me.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I wasn't familiar with the way housing operated, but I was in Brooklyn North, so I was a little bit happier about that.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I had no real experience being in the 9-0 precinct or the 8-3 precinct or any of those commands that it covered.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I went there and uh they assigned me as an FTU sergeant right out right out of the gate.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a new class that was out at the time.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they assigned me as an FTU sergeant, and I had some kids, you know, and it was it was good, you know, just trying to teach them the ropes and stuff.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I remember there was one of them was an actual lateral from somewhere in California.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he was he was good to have because he was a little bit of a mentor for the other guys and used to drive me every once in a while, and we'd make some good college together and stuff.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was pretty good.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh a short time after that, uh, I was asked to do anti-crime.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: So then I took over as the anti-crime sergeant in PSA 3.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: But my time there was short-lived because of uh, you know, Operation Trident being rolled out in the 7-5.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I got I got to PSA three just to give you a little little idea of time.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: I got to the I got to PSA three at the end of of uh July and I was out of there by December.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um because uh like I said, the Operation Trident was rolling out and the PC uh well let me back up and give you a little bit of a breakdown of what Operation Trident was.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Operation Trident uh was uh an initiative that was rolled out in the 75 precinct for the purposes of getting uh a little bit more um getting a little bit more control of the of the crime trends and what was going on.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it was it was all under that Comstat mentality and umbrella.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what they decided to do is they uh they split up the command into three zones under one chief.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that and that each zone had its own captain, its own lieutenants, its own sergeants, and they were pretty much held accountable for whatever happened in that zone, and everyone would report back to the chief.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: So as you can imagine, for an operation like that, you need like three times everything, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: So the PC didn't want a brand new class out of BMOC going there as supervisors because they wanted someone they could, I guess, have a little bit of experience.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he decided to go back like one or two classes and just draft everyone to the 7.5, regardless of where they went, unless I mean, unless you had a crane, you were getting yanked and you were going to the 7.5 under this initiative.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was one of those that got that got yanked.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sitting there one day in in the PSA 3 and I get a notification.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, you're transferred to the 7.5.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my CO calling me up and saying, Did you put in for the 7.5 Precinct?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't know anyone that puts in for the 7.5 precinct.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: So But uh I said, yeah, I said, you know, I was told I had to go, I was told I didn't have a choice, and so that's what happened, and I wound up in the 7-5.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I always wondered what it was like from an active cop to become a supervisor, and now you're supervising cops.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: As a sergeant, did you ever have any dead wood that you had like kick in the ass?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know I would be an awful supervisor.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know I would, I know I would, because I would expect people to think like me and go, go, go, and you know that's not the job.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a small percentage of us that are proactive and and and you know, really are into it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: How how did you balance that?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, they say that, they say that, um, and I'm assuming you were an active cop, you know, and uh and and and they say that 20% of the police department's really doing all the work.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like 20% is really doing all the work, like the street work, and everyone else is just kind of like filling in, you know?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when you understand that, you understand that not everybody is cut out to to, you know, be uh gung-ho and do what they need to do and go above and beyond and stuff like that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So as a manager or supervisor, you have to kind of just, you know, find what their strengths are and what they want to be so that they can be the most productive in whatever it is that they want to do, right?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you if you put someone in the car that doesn't want to make gun collars, he's never gonna see anything, right?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you put them, if you put them somewhere where maybe they're good with uh spreadsheets and you need to keep track of what you're doing, well, you give them assignments like that.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I need you to do this for me because I I I have I have to have a CO's meeting and I need I need the information on all the all the operations we've done, what have we recovered in contraband, how many guns have did we get, you know, how many CIs did we sign up?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you give them tasks like that, and then you put them on posts or you know, you put them in places where you're not really expecting too much out of them, you know?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's that's what they want.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, the the the days of uh, you know, getting physical with cops, like I hear it used to happen back in the 80s.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those days were over long before I got there, you know.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I I liked I like to capitalize on on the guys that that were motivated, that wanted to work, because just like supervisors saw something in me and they and they and they took me under their wing and they made me the the cop that I became.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: I like to think that by by identifying those those kids that I saw had promise and and taking them under my wing and investing in them, that they they remember me the way I remembered my mentors now.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's how I approached it.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good philosophy.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I know I know I would have failed miserably at it.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know it.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Eddie, after Operation Trident, you try to get back to the gang unit as a supervisor.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to go before the board, and you got shanghai'd by the Internal Affairs Bureau.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain how that went down?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I put in to go back to the gang squad and uh in the NYPD as a supervisor.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you put in to go to an investigative track assignment, uh you have to go before uh a review board.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that review board is comprised of all the bureaus that pretty much are a little uh shy in manpower, and and IAB has a crack at at anyone they want because they have the lowest amount of you know personnel, and so uh it's a it's a necessary evil, and and and so they're kind of given the priority to pick up whoever they think will be a good fit.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I go before the board and I'm sitting there and they have you write this uh this essay right before you go in about why you deserve to go where you're going, and and you're sitting there with a panel of like 10 to 15 people and you give them your spiel about you know who you are and where you want to go, and they make you feel like you're a great candidate for where you want to go and like they're gonna honor it.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no no one tells you, no, we need people in IAB and we feel you're a good candidate for that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: So and they're just basically looking for people that don't have a, you know, don't have a history, they don't have too many uh, you know, complaints or charges or anything like that.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I get a call that hey, you've been transferred to internal affairs, and and you know, so now I'm like, well, there goes because I already knew you had a two year commitment before you can even put in to go.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the way it's structured.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: is you do your two years and then you have to put in.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: But then they played a game of holding on to your paperwork for like six months before they even honor it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: By the time you get out of there, you you did three years.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like narcotics, right?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Guys went into narcotics and then they were there for five years before they could get out minimum.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was the same.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: What group did you have and what precincts did you cover?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a group 32 and I covered the 72, the 78, the 68, you know, all of the Brooklyn South commands, the 6-1, all the Brooklyn South commands we covered.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain to our listeners what a typical day is for an IAB supervisor?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: So interestingly enough an IAB supervisor uh I write about this in my book, uh, the the way IAB is set up, when you go to internal affairs as a sergeant, you get stripped of your supervisory authority within the bureau.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: They actually they actually uh tell you right at from the gate, you're brought into the office and they tell you listen, you're a sergeant, but here you're just an investigator and you work side by side with detectives.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the supervisory rank in IAB starts at the rank of lieutenant.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine the lieutenant is now the sergeant.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a hard pill to swallow for a lot of guys you know you you take the test, you get promoted, you've been out there for a while now you get drafted and you're told you know you're you're you're not a supervisor anymore.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I didn't care.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have like identity issues or anything like that.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I just felt like you know what we talked about accountability earlier and and you know when it suits the job they'll do things like that.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I put dollars to donuts that if we were out in the field and something happened and it went bad they would then look at me as the supervisor and say you should have known better and they would have gone after me.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully it never happened but that was always our argument that you know what we're not bosses when they don't want us to be bosses.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: But rest assured if something goes bad you were the boss on the scene you know because for all intents and purposes we were.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that was hard to get used to but it worked out.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: See when I I I understand why they did it because and for our listeners the detectives that go cops and detectives that go into IEB aren't drafted.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: They go voluntarily they tend to be the weasels and weirdos of the department they're there forever because no one wants them after they get out that's why they started drafting supervisors like Eddie and guys that I worked with because they knew nobody wanted to go there voluntarily.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they would draft guys with good backgrounds, investigative backgrounds, but now they know somebody like Eddie might not be on board with something one of the weasels wants to do.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna make him the same rank in the unit so Eddie can't shut that guy down or tell that guy no, this is bullshit.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: What are you kidding me?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is nonsense.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: This happens all the time it's got to go to a lieutenant to sign off on I I totally understand why they did that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's a good way of looking at it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I never really thought about it too too deeply but uh I can tell you that that having my street experience with the narcotics and everything really, really played a part and I like to think that I did a lot of great work there because when I settled in and I decided okay I'm gonna do the best that I can it was more about are these are these complaints legit or are they bullshit?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth is that if you don't have the narcotics experience of how perps operate, right, and you and you're sitting at a desk and a log comes across your your desk and it says oh the you know the officer planted drugs on me, you know, that he picked them up off the street and and said that they were mine.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that reads horrible to a person who doesn't understand how the streets work and and so you when you're in narcotics and you know the the mountain of paperwork that goes into these collars and you know that all of this has to be articulated somewhere on depositions and stuff.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And a little trip to the precinct and and a little gathering and reading of the that the that paperwork will clearly let you know why he's saying that the cop picked up drugs and and and said it they were his because they clearly were you know and uh and so I I like to think that that's where I I made the difference you know where I didn't make I didn't let things like that become a case hold up a guy's career for 18 months because I didn't know any better at the call out stage.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know I took that initiative I went out to the command and I shut it down right away.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it never got any further than just a log being generated with my report indicating that it's unfounded because of you know the documents that I was able to to show that it didn't happen.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know Eddie are most of the calls that come into the action desk nonsense a lot of them are and it's funny because when I first got promoted uh there was a uh a female there that was uh had just gotten promoted out of IAB as a she was I guess was a detective and she got promoted to sergeant and she was saying the majority of the calls that come into the call center uh are MOS on MOS you know what I mean like and and and a lot of them are are cops calling on each other because they're you know they're just jealous about certain things that what's going on like you know we're our our biggest enemy sometimes when it comes to that you know and and as far as the civilians are concerned yeah absolutely you know and I'm all for there being oversight I mean a lot of people don't realize the uh the extent of the NYPD's internal affairs bureau I mean if you can if I could just give you the parallels of of how the NYPD is uh policed versus the fire department uh there was a guy that worked with us who was an attorney and he was telling me that uh I forget the name of the agency that does the investigations for the other city officials uh do you do you know it off the top of your head?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: The D O I yeah Department of Investigations there was one guy assigned to allegations of corruption and misconduct against the fire department there was one guy assigned so you can imagine right you know how many are assigned in the Internal Affairs Bureau when I was there 500 500 you know what I mean so it's a it's a robust real operating machine against you know making sure that that cops are doing what they have to do.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that you know the public realizes the extent that the job uh takes to make sure that that everyone's being treated properly and fairly Eddie for our listeners that don't know this the NYPD basically gets them out of the police academy they're called field associates what they are they're they're spies and internal affairs will grab rookie cops they usually try to grab people that come on the job later in life that have no connections to the police department no family on the job and they approach them with this shtick that you're doing good you're gonna be our eyes and ears and if there's something going on in a precinct we want you to call in they meet with a handler a couple of times a year or a month I really don't know how it works.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have to deal with that at all?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know what as as you know it's funny I'm glad you brought that up because that that brings up another point.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you think you're in internal affairs and that you're like privileged to everything that goes on, right?
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not like you're you're it's secret squirrel to the point where like you're there you're there as an investigator but you're not trusted fully either.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you wanted to do a background check on a person's reputation in the command we would have to do one of the checks we did in our investigations was to call uh this number we didn't know where it went to we didn't know who was behind it and they actually had their field associates.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we called like a control center that was controlling the field associates and they would tell us if there was any feedback regarding the subject in the investigation.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: But we didn't know who we were calling and we didn't know who was running it.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time it was oh no information or the guy works four to twelve it was always like it was always like stuff you already knew and it made us wonder after a while if that was just they want you to believe that there's a field associate in every command but was there really a field associate in every command because rarely did we get anything that was worthy or that helped us in our investigation you know but we weren't trusted to know like you know even if we had to exchange you know evidence with like Taru or something like that.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe someone went and they set up on a location and they need needed to give us the tapes or whatever we didn't go to their location.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't know where these guys turned out of we met them at like you know bodegas and and places in public.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean this is this is crazy you know and it was like a slap in the face because like with anything else if you felt that I was worthy enough to get drafted you felt that I had integrity why are you treating me like I don't have integrity right well I think that you know what the concern is somebody like you you're not a lifer.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: You got drafted in you're gonna do a couple of years and you're gonna go somewhere else and then one day you're gonna be working with me and you're gonna point to a guy in a command and go, that guy's bad.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: That guy's a field associate.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why they do it because they know you're not gonna be there forever.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to be there and eventually you're gonna leave and you're gonna say oh no no there's a guy over there that that that's no good.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's kind of why you that's and that's a great point.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: I never looked at it that way.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: I never looked at it that way.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know you would be you would you would be good running the Internal Affairs Bureau.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: You got all the I had a deal you know all the reasons why it's you know it's necessary.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean this this is your interview but I'll tell you this when I was in OCCB especially in the auto prime division whenever we went up on a wiretap or had a halfway decent good investigation going a cop would wander onto the playing field.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll and it wasn't always stupidity.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was you know running plates for guys that were stealing cars or actually stealing stuff and you know we'd lock guys up that would have parking permits that would that that that a cop stole from a precinct like and we'd have to call IEB and they would come down and it would always be somebody like yourself.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: It they would always send two bosses so we didn't have to deal with the detectives because we would treat them like shit.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they would always treat they would always send two bosses over and then you know you had to show them respect and what do you got and blah blah blah blah blah blah but yeah I wouldn't have believed it on on the patrol level until I got into OCCB and then you see things and you're like shit.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: But when you were in IDB you had a case where you had a cop that was um was gonna t attempt to do a home invasion Oh yeah that was that was a crazy case.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: When I first got there I'm there maybe a couple months and uh we get a call out for two guys and and it was terrible because these two guys they were rookies they were rookies they had a couple years on the job and uh I guess one was having domestic issues and the other one was just you know I guess a troubled person or whatever and and they uh these guys were military too from what I understood they were like you know uh you know veterans and stuff like that so like the the last people you would expect that would be getting involved in what I'm about to describe so so we get a call that there's two guys stopped in Jersey and they're claiming to be uh you know MOS one guy's got ID the other guy doesn't one guy's armed the other guy isn't and they're being held at this at this police station in Jersey so we get we head out there and uh the story is that the these cops get information from someone who has an inside scoop that the location in Jersey um there's a there's a person who deals drugs out of a location and they keep a large sums of money in makeshift furniture and that he's expected to have like north of a million dollars at at this at this time when they when they go there.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they decide that they're gonna borrow a vehicle or have a vehicle rented they're gonna dress up in suits and they're gonna go there again one guy's armed the other guy's not one guy was already jammed up on a domestic I think and so they go there and they approach and they approach the the location the information they get is that this guy's alone he's not gonna be a combative person it's gonna be an easy score right but it's never what it what they tell you.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they get to the location they knock on the door and they're met by the owner of the residence.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: So the the the subject location is on the third on the on the upper floor and they they have to knock on the bit on the first floor.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the owner of the property comes to the door and asks what they need.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: They tell her that I think if I recall they they give her the impression that they might be like federal agents or something like that and that they're looking for the subject well she knows she knows the subject because it's her tenant and she asks the officers uh you know what what the issue is and they tell we just need to talk to him so their plan is that they're gonna tell him that they have a warrant for him they're gonna try to work themselves into the apartment and then I guess they're gonna somehow secure him and then ransack the place to try to get the money and get out of there.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's the plan.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they get to the door and that's where the first hurdle comes in.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: So she directs them to the back door they get to the back door they knock the guy comes down to the door they try to give him the spiel that he's got a warrant that they need to get into the apartment and he's like absolutely not if you guys don't have a warrant you're not coming in who are you guys let me see some ID it gets a little loud it gets a little combative to the point where the guy starts screaming for his landlord to come she comes she comes around she tells him what's going on here do you guys have a warrant you don't have a warrant you know it's not it's not gonna fly you need to come back with a warrant or whatever.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: So lo and behold there's there's a neighbor who's watching this whole thing because the place was dirty and the neighbor was happy to see what looked like some enforcement going on finally at this location.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: So he's watching he's looking at it play out so they leave they're looking to get out of there and the neighbor approaches them and says hey guys what's going on he goes I'm glad to see someone's here you know you guys who you guys with you guys with the feds who you guys with like I'm so glad and they're like yeah yeah they kind of like try to blow him off and he's like listen just stand by I already got the locals coming I already called the locals are on their way.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like no no no we got to get out of here so they they hightail it out of there and the locals get there.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now they're doing a canvas for this car because he's not one of theirs and who the hell are these guys right so that man these guys the luck that these guys did not have that day like if you're familiar with Jersey with all the jug handles that around that Route three area where you jump on the turnpike they're coming around the jug handle and all they needed was another quarter mile to get on the turnpike entrance and just as they're coming onto Route three there's one of the one of the Jersey cars uh notices that it the car fits the description and pulls them over and then the car stop leads to one of the cops the jersey cop was sharp he sees that when he tries to pull out his license he could see the ID card with his little NYPD at the top edge of it and he says you guys on the job and then you know from there they kind of like we're taken back to the station house they generated a log but but the scariest part of this whole thing was we're sitting there now right and they're on ice because they're trying to determine what's going on and they're separate one guy's in one room one guy's in another so now one of the cops from the jersey command is you know assigned to watch one of our MOS in the uh in the room he's not handcuffed they don't they they haven't pressed charges yet and the cop is sitting there and he's reading the newspaper in front of him he's not really paying attention to our MOS and my understanding is RMOS the one that's in this room he's like a like a professional boxer right so he's sitting there and he's not really paying attention to him and we hear because they're under audio and uh video surveillance that you know the precinct was like really you know high tech out there they have really nice facilities so we're sitting there we're monitoring him and the cop says to the uh to the jersey cop he says hey can I ask you a question and he goes yeah what's up he goes does your gun fire with the magazine out he says to him and the fucking chief of the department overhears he says what did he ask him and I said he asked him if his gun fires with the magazine out he started running towards that room opened the door and yanked the officer out because the officer had the magazine out but he probably had one in the chamber you know and our guy wanted to confirm whether that gun was operable or not we'll never know what his mindset was but that was a scary scary moment and I guess the you know I guess the pressure and the desperation was starting to set in that you know this is not going to go well.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think it did.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I never really followed up on the case because it wasn't assigned to me but I I think those guys went away for a long time.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: Believable IAB about a bar owner who attempted to bribe cops to stay away from his bar.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah yeah that was a great story and and and that's a story of the integrity that most cops have you know so uh there's some cops assigned uh to the 7-2 precinct and they uh you know there's there's a lot of the bars they want to stay open after hours and you know the cops are shutting them down and being being uh nuisance to them so uh the guy it's like it's it's around the holidays the guy approaches the car and and tells him gives him a bottle of wine and tells him here he hands him an envelope and tells him here you know Merry Christmas or happy Thanksgiving I forget what holiday it was and the guys are like what are you talking about you know so they drive off they open the envelope it's got like five six hundred bucks in it and uh and right away they call the sergeant to the scene and they make a notification to us and so uh they could have gone over there and they could have locked the guy up but they decided to turn into what they call a control pad.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what they do is they call us and then we open up a case where we want to, you know, we want an ironclad case so what we do is we have these guys continuing to collect from the the bar owner so that he thinks that yeah everything's good and we're developing a case against him and then eventually you know the the case gets taken down and he gets arrested and charged with bribery.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I got brought into it because uh I was a Hispanic sergeant and the bar was a Hispanic owner and so I get brought in as their corrupt supervisor which was you know which is pretty cool.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're under surveillance and I introduce myself and I'm like yeah listen I'm their sergeant they told me you're giving them XYZ but I need to confirm because these guys sometimes they like to skim off the top and I want to know if you're giving them a thousand or whatever you're getting them I want to know that they're giving me half because that's the agreement you know so uh so he's like yeah no I'm giving them XYZ and and and and uh and we do it like two or three times and then we take it down.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: But would you believe Vic that we never heard a thing from the DA's office with regards to that case.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: A thing.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I ever went to grand I don't I don't even I don't even remember I don't want to say I didn't go to grand jury.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember but I I I don't even I don't remember anything about the case you know so I think that what happened was they basically gave him a slap on the hand and said don't do that you can't bribe our cops don't do that you know but yet had we been on the opposite side of that right it would have been a different outcome.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um if those cops would have pocketed that money and continue to pocket it and it would have came out those cops would have gone to jail rightfully so and they just give this guy a slap on the wrist.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little disheartening when that happens but yeah well I'm not afraid like the Bronx and the Brooklyn DA's office is a circus.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Eddie I can keep you here all day talk to you about war stories.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: Please tell us about your new book Surviving the Streets 23 years from Brooklyn to the trenches of counterterrorism yeah so I mean I don't know what what I was thinking.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I'm I'm watching a podcast with uh with Rodney Harrison they're interviewing him on you know his career guy had a tremendous career and he wrote a book and you know again the the mentor I had on the job was really good friends with him so I was familiar with him I didn't know him personally but I think I ran into him one time when he was in Staten Island but so I'm I'm looking at the podcast and I'm like wow you know and and I I I stopped watching the podcast I'm going on vacation the next morning and I said to myself you know I mean I I didn't rise to the ranks of chief or anything like that but I was on the job for a good amount of time and I had some share of experiences I I I think I'm I think I can write a book.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know I I think I have some stories worthy of of writing a book.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I go to bed I think about it for a little while I get up the next day and uh we're at the airport and I tell my wife I said you know I I I think I want to write a book and she's like yeah yeah write a book because you know everyone's heard the stories and they're like so man I started writing on the plane by the time I got to my destination I had a couple chapters already written you know just rough drafts and stuff like that and and uh finally you know I'm doing my research well how long should the book be you know how many chapters and finally I I get up to about 20 something chapters and then I start tweaking it and fine tuning it you know and cleaning it up and then uh I wind up producing this baby right here surviving the streets with Eddie Ortiz.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: It could be found on uh Amazon in uh both uh Kindle uh ebook and paperback formats so if you're interested in that type of thing you know uh you know police stories or whatever it might be yeah check it out I'm sure you'll find it interesting uh shares uh you know some insights into the police department the culture the community uh you know my challenges of being a supervisor on the police department I think you'll enjoy it our list is definitely well and and I'm glad you wrote it because every NYPD cop any cop who's done any time in the street has a million or one stories that people would find fascinating.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wish especially our job I wish more NYPD men and women would do this.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: And any I want to thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: One last time what's the name of our book and where can our listeners pick up a copy?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh Surviving the Streets by Edgar Ortiz.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: It could be picked up on Amazon in either uh ebook or paperback formats.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Edgar Ortiz, thank you for spending your time with us today.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh thank you.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: As always I'd like to thank everyone for tuning in especially my l listeners in Bettendorf, Iowa, Ladera Beach, California, Mesa, Arizona, White Plains, New York, and Peyton, Colorado.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you work in law enforcement or had an interesting criminal background, please drop me a note on Twitter or Instagram at VicFeroy50 if you'd like to be a guest.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're watching on YouTube, please hit the like and subscribe buttons and if you're really feeling strong hit the hype button on your mobile app.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if you enjoy the content check out my Amazon author page.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just type in my name Vic for I like the car where you can preview all my NYPD books for free.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again everyone and I'll see you next week.