Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #465 Why doesn't God show Himself? He does! Theology of the Body

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#465 Why doesn't God show Himself? He does! Theology of the Body · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Podcast production of the John Paul 2 Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rickager, host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and the doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I beg a while to guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet St John Paul II said there's an echo of this story, of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on a proper lens, if I put on a proper lens, we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II in the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back for today's episode.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are podcast.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I am with Linda Piper and we are talking Theology of the Body today.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Today we are on audience number 82.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: If you've been following us, the man and woman, he created them at Theology of the Body.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: This was presented by John Paul II on June 23, 1982.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: He's talking about Paul's understanding of the relationship between virginity and marriage from 1 Corinthians, chapter 7, christ's statement in the teaching of the apostles.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Linda, welcome, good to see you.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Jack, Good to be here again.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: John Paul wants us to look for a moment here in this audience.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: 82 in kind of some background information about St Paul's interpretation, because it shed some light on the whole topic for us with regard to the point in time that Paul was addressing the church in Corinth.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of an interesting diversion from some of what we've been talking about to get some background too of what was going on for Paul at that point.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Paul in Corinthians 6.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Now John Paul is alluding to 7, but in 6 he's talking, he sets this up.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: This really comes down to what is a right relationship with God.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Where are we going and do we really believe?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I think, linda, do we really believe in the power of Jesus Christ to fill us?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: In 1 Corinthians 6.9 he says do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Do not be deceived.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards or revelers, nor robbers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: And some, and such were some of you.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord, jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: What St Paul is calling us into, linda, is the Holy Spirit is a temple.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: People don't get this and, to say it over and over, I gave a talk last night trying to bring this through that we are the visible sign of God in the world.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So St Paul is addressing marriage or celibacy.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: He thinks, and he has this understanding and this sense that Jesus is coming back pretty fast.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: So he thinks this we don't have a lot of time and in reality Jesus didn't come back yet for the second coming.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: But we have this sense again today.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: But whether he comes back today or tomorrow, jesus said, don't worry about the exact time.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Even only the Father knows.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: But for all of us, time is ticking away, tick tock, tick tock.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: So whether he's coming tomorrow, or he's coming 20 years from now, or 120 years from now, it may, I'm on a banana peel, I might be out tomorrow.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So the point here is, whether you're married or unmarried, your fulfillment, your power, your grace is going to come from our Savior.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Right, he comes into the story to redeem us, to save us.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: And you know what, linda, when you look up at a cross, jesus is hanging there.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: He chose celibacy, right, he chose celibacy for the kingdom.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And people say, okay, well then, you know he's a celibate man.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: No, he chose you.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: This is what you have to look at.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: When you look at a crust, he chose Linda.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I choose you.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I gave up other marriages because I want to intimacy with you.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: And he looks at me that way.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: He's pouring himself out to us as the eternal bridegroom to bring us into the story.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: So Saint Paul says whether you get married, it's not bad, and if you don't get married, it's even better.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And he says well, what's it's better than being married?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: It's not being married.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: A better, because it's the sacrament of marriages.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Bad.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: He said this is not a good or evil, a More moral choice, it's a personal choice.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: And he said at the end of the day you'll be less anxious.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: He says you won't have.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: You won't have that anxiousness right.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: He says here on, in verse 32 of 1 Corinthians 7 I want you to be free from anxieties.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord how to please the Lord but the married man anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife and his interests are divided.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And the unmarried woman or virgin is anxious about the affairs of the Lord how to be holy and body and spirit, but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs and how to please her husband.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and secure your undivided devotion to the Lord.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: What he's saying is the reason you know virginity or celibacy for the kingdom is better is because your focus exactly on God.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: That's the thing.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: But he says, on the other hand, you can't.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: You know, once you're married, you know you can't dissolve this thing.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You have to decide to be a gift to one another and the same thing you have to point yourself at the Lord, both of you in order to be filled and carry this out.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So, whether you're married or not married, look it, we're going to the same place, right?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So what he's trying to do is say look it, you know, let's not live sinful lives, let's not live lives of, of just passion and grasping and wanting to take that your whole body is a Sacramento sign given to the Lord.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And, in reality, in this earthly life, that means to love your neighbor, to love your spouse, to love your family, and You're pouring yourself out.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: If I have a wife, and and and seven kids at home, I have to take care of them.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: That's my primary responsibility.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: St Paul says that you know the end of the world might be coming here and if so, you might not want to get involved in that.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You may want to go directly into the heart of Christ and Bring help me, bring the gospel message to all these people, and and that's what makes it better.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So when we look at being anxious about things of the world, if I'm married and my family and all the responsibilities I have, the caution of not being anxious still applies to us and we wonder, well, well, how can I do that?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Well, it's all about that organizing of what's the most important and, yes, christ could come back anytime now am I ready to meet him?
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: So clearly?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: That spiritual element of my life is important and if I have those seven kids that you mentioned, it's so important for me to Raise them in the faith and to model the faith and how.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, trials and tribulations come our way every day, but I don't have to have the worry and anxiety about it if I know that I'm living God's plan by being gift of self to all these children.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Now, they were a gift to me, right, children are supreme gift in marriage and the reciprocal Way to deal with that is that I am the gift back to them, and the biggest gift I can give my children is to have them see that I am living a life of faith and that I truly believe that my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, as Is there.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So everything St Paul is saying here applies to us, whether we're married or not.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: It's just that the details, you know, of our life, the context in which we're living, it changes and while we do have to love others, who those others are specifically will change for each of us.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't change the fact that that's our call to be gift to others, kind of where God planted us and that's where our circle of influence surrounds us, and those people are the ones we love the most, as we, you know, share that prayers for the entire, you know, community and the communion of saints.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So you know, you kind of see that ripple effect throwing that stone in the water and those immediately around you are the most affected and it carries on and on from there.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: So what Saint Paul has to tell us, I think, applies to every single one of us.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we really see this today.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I mean the, the if you walk away from grace, if you walk away from what Saint Paul is talking about here, which is really, again, your body being a temple of the Holy Spirit and being filled with the sacramental sign of God's love in the world, however you decide to live that out, live it out properly, and you know, and don't look for the easy way out.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: We all got to carry your cross, we all got to go through this, so, so what does this mean today?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Will you start to look around you with the brokenness again in the world, linda?
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: It's, it's pretty clear right now, the weeds in the weed are standing up.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Paul walks into Corinthians and to the, into this, into and speaking to these people in Corinth, and he's speaking to people that are sinful people just like they are today, and he's trying to put this all in the context for them and put the priorities straight.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And I see this today.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: You know now the teaching today.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: You know you can go a couple of different ways with this, linda, and I don't care where we go, but you know, what really bothers me now, even in the, in the church, is that we're getting very unclear messages.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You know, and people are asking me every time I speak now, what about Pope Francis and the same sex marriages?
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: What about we're worshiping the Pachamama?
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: When he came in where I, you know, it's like we're worshiping the, the goddess of of of earth.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: You know what about all these different idea, you know ideologies that he's really promoting it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: And you know he says one thing and he does another thing.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, you know, you realize, you have to be pretty clear on this that we have to make a decision.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: And same Paul says it in here that you have to discern what God wants for your life.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: But then you have to walk in that right.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: You have to walk in at discernment and when you're vague and and and you know you're you're not giving people principles to live by.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And this is what's happening today, linda.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I think this is the difference.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Today and again, we, what we're doing here, by unpacking John Paul's work, saint Paul's work, we're trying to get to a root of what does Christ teach.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And John Paul brings that up in here, and so does Saint Paul.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: They turn to Christ and say, okay, well, you know, saint Paul is being pastoral, he's trying to speak to these people in a pastoral way.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Look at, I empathize with what you're saying.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Now, come to me a little bit and I'm we'll start to work together.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: You know, and and I'm bringing you up a little bit at a time you know, you can't just hammer people with with with rules and regulations, right.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: So that's what he's doing Now.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Pope Francis seems that he wants to try to do that too.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But the difference is this Saint Paul and John Paul are going okay, what would Christ do?
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: And he would go have dinner with you, he would forgive you, he would try to heal you, right.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And then he would say go out and sin no more.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: And this is the difference, you know.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Pope Francis says, yeah, go out to those people, go out, right, get the smell of the sheep on you.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But then he leaves the sheep, if you look at what he does.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: he leaves them in their brokenness and see, this is a big deal.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: This is a big deal If we leave all the people we meet in their brokenness with no hope.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: You should see the devastation with young people when they have no hope.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: It's very sad.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And when you start to tell them that Jesus Christ came into the story to give them hope and strength and courage and grace, ooh, it changes everything.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: You know it's it sure does beautiful, when that happens.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, jack, the parallels between the time when Saint Paul is writing his letter to the Corinthians and what we see now, I think is is pretty strong, because we know the very beginning of chapter seven in verse.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Corinthians says now, concerning the matters about which you wrote, and we don't have that letter, we don't know what they were writing about specifically Hope, so let's, let's get so unpacked a little bit for people that aren't reading that verse.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So that first.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So what Linda's saying is Saying Paul is responding to a letter that we don't have anymore, and that's how that sentence again went.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Now concerning the matter about which you wrote.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: So he got this letter, or they wrote the church there and then sent it to sitting Paul.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: So that's what he's responding to.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So again, when, when he does and and so, and.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And the pope reminds us that in the context of some of the things going on there, that Decisions about marriage were in part made by the parents or guardians rather than young people themselves, and so we know of cultures where that still is going on.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So my point I'd like to make is that there there were many questions, there was a lot of confusion on how do we understand what Jesus taught us, and, and Paul, saint Paul is Working with him at trying to help their specific Issues and questions and teach them Historically within the context of what Jesus taught.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: But I see that so much a Parallel today, because those of our shepherds who who have not gone into Parasy or gone, you know, just off the rails in so many ways, are still trying to do that with us, bringing us back to what did Jesus teach and what has the church taught for all these years.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: But I see also the parallel between the division and confusion, because Paul addresses that in In the beginning part too, that he knows there's division and confusion Among the people, and and boy don't.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: We have that today as well.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And that's what the evil one does he sows Division and confusion.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: So we need to be very much aware that there's an all-out effort in this spiritual battle to confuse us and to divide us.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And yet it does not have to be.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: If we pay attention to that, that truth, the teachings of Jesus that we know from From everything that we have talked about so far in theology, the body and the St Paul is delivering it in a very pastoral way, as do others of our bishops today, so that that home that Paul has is still with some, many of our good bishops is saying, yes, we recognize all this confusion that's coming from our culture, but the church still provides, as you just said, the grace, and then the healing, and then the Way forward of go and sin no more.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: A lot of us aren't wanting to hear that, though, right.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the problem.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no so.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And and Paul says it in here he says Were you a slave when called?
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Never mind, but you can gain your freedom.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Now he's talking about actual slaves there.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And then he alludes to a slavery that we manifest ourselves by being slaves of Sin.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: You know, we become slaves, you know.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: And then he goes on to say you know, christ came to free us.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: You know, and we want to become slaves of Christ.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: If you were bought with the price he said, do not become slaves of men.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And this is what we do when we sin.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: But look at a body and a soul without grace, without the Holy Spirit, that the fault position is just Sin and death.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: That's what it is.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: You see it all around you.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I love GK, chester 10 and CS Lewis to say just look around and See the evil and the sin that that's in the world and then look into your own heart.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You're gonna see it there, we know it, it's as clear.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Gk would say as a potato.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Sit in front of you and then, linda, we have that tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock, we're.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you, you're gonna, you're gonna have death.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: So our default position when we walk into this world is sin and death unless, unless we breathe back in the Spirit, right, the Holy Spirit, you know Jesus breathes on us.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You know Jesus breathes that back in, you know.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And and when we read, we can reject that again, and when rejected it it's so ugly.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you can live in your sins.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: You can choose your sins.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: You can, you can use and abuse people.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: You can see.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: You see this all around us.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: There's divisions and the hatred and the vitro.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we're going somewhere and if you want it and again, I see this in young people when you, when you really proclaim the gospel to them and give them hope, their initial reaction sometimes is a Rejection.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Right, because they're, they're told to reject God, reject, you know, anything that's religious, but at the end of the day, it touches their hearts.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: It touches their hearts.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know you, you're expecting something from them better.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Then the garbage pit that they're living in or they see around them and they go.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, there's hope for me.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I knew something in my heart said there must be a better way to live, and now you just told me what it was.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Don't give up on this message to young people, because this is innate in us.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's just that they haven't been told it hasn't come alive.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: It's like a little spark there that needs to be kindled, you know that spark or that echo that we talked about so so long ago.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: It is still there.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: It was put in by God from the very beginning and it needs to be reignited.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And so, of course, we don't give up and we provide the hope.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: When we look at this body and soul division, it's a disintegration, and that is what happened to us at the Fall Jack.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Now we're experiencing this disintegration.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: That was not God's plan, and yet we know that we have that.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: There's something more.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: God's plan was for the complete integration of body and soul and yes, looking at the cross, that's what Christ offers to us is to come back together, through Him, in Him, with Him and through Him, to that integration of body and soul, which then will allow us to live as temples of the Holy Spirit.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So it sounds kind of, again, not very practical or realistic, but in truth it is very realistic.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: We talk in our language I've got to get my act together, I've got to get myself together.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: We say that a lot when we know we're kind of in chaos and in disorder, and I think that's another sign of we know that what is God's plan for us is to have the order and have the integration where I do have my act together and I have my whole self together.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So we know that over and over again.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: So it is extremely practical in our day-to-day lives and all the things that you're telling the young people.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: It's going to give them hope immediately because they know that the way I'm living just is not right.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I don't have my act together and I need something else.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: It really makes sense.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you think about this.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: You know, john Paul spoke to young people and I should have left that quote up.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I said a quote to you earlier and let me here I can pull it up on my other computer here what do you seek?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Jesus said.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: And then John Paul, speaking at the canonization of Edith Stein, who became St Teresa of Benedict, a convert and a Carmelite, and before she went to the gas chambers in Auschwitz, she said always speak the truth in love and always speak about love and the truth.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: One without the others, a destructive lie.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: And I see again, this is the, this is.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And again, I just want to, because I'm getting this.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I'd rather not address this, but I get this all the time about this vagueness of Pope Francis.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: He's the real Pope.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: If anybody asked me, he's the real Pope.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: He's sitting on the.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: You know, in fact.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: In fact, the Gospel.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Today, as we're recording this, which is a Tuesday, this won't come out to Windsor, but the for a mass today was about the Jewish leaders.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: He said you know they're there, they're sitting on the throne of Moe.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: You know the, the, the Chair of Moses.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: So you know, we have to give them respect, and so that's what we do with Pope Francis, we give them respect.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: But then he said you know, don't do as they do.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: So he was very clear.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Jesus was very clear on this, and I think that's what we have now with the Pope.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Now he's really our Pope.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: God's gonna have to judge them.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: But but unfortunately, I'm in a position where People are asking me about the same confusion that you just brought up with Saint Paul.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: So I can't just brush it off, linda.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I would like to.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I'd like to say you know, just ignore him.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: We have Catholic teaching.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: But they say no, I didn't know John Paul, I didn't know Pope Benedict.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I I came into the church eight years ago, ten years ago, whatever, and all I know is Pope Francis and he's been confusing all this time.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: You know, saying one thing and then doing another thing.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And so John Paul said this to young people.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: He says dear young people, pay attention, your life is not an endless series of open doors.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Listen to your heart, but do not stay on the surface of things, but go deeper into the heart of things.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: So understand your faith.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: And I think this is the challenge, and this is the point I make when I say this.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: This is a challenge for each of us to go deeper into our faith, because when you, you have a time of confusion in the world, a time of confusion actually coming from the Vatican itself, then you, you have to own your faith.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I think God is permitting this because he's saying you know what?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: There's so many lack, some so many lukewarm Catholics, so many lukewarm Christians that have ignored so much of what I taught, and they're listening to these people and they don't even know how to discern.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So you know what I'm gonna?
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Let the confusion rain, because Pope Francis is just a manifestation of all the, all the Understanding of all this confusion and corruption underneath them.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: And the same thing with somebody like Joe Biden is president he.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You know, if you take out Biden, you're still gonna have morally corrupt people all around us.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And the same thing at the.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Vatican.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I think God is allowing us to do and what John Paul is challenging these people, these young people, go to the heart of things.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: What is your faith?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: What does Jesus Christ teach?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And then he said when you find that out, he goes.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Like this, he goes.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And when the time is right, have the courage to decide, put it in front of you.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Have the courage to decide.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: St Paul says whether you get married or don't get married.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: We're still aiming for that, for the truth of Jesus Christ.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: He's the underlying one.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: And whether you're married and here's the last thing I'll say to this, linda Young people are getting married outside the church.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: They're going on Destination weddings.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: You know they have no idea what they're doing.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: They have because they, they feel like this.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Whatever they're feeling at that time is just gonna last forever, and it doesn't.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: You need race To sustain this, because this is, this is a self-sustaining.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: You know this is a gift, this is a sacrifice that we make to one another, but they don't see that yet.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You know right.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a great lack of understanding and I think what we were talking earlier.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what exactly?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: What is why I'm begging?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Please try to understand the teachings in theology.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: The body that we're bringing to you.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: We will get into marriage in the next portion here and it's so very important.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I think you had used the phrase about.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: You know we're not playing games here, but I'm one level.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: The young people are Playing games.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: They're not going deep, they're on the surface.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: It just brings up the whole thing of all the video games.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It's like they're out.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: You know, so many of them are always just playing games and Going to the heart, jack, that's that search for the truth.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And when we do that, the Pope says be courageous, you will find the truth, and it's Jesus Christ, the way, the truth in the life, and recognize that when you find it, our culture makes it and then decide right and when you decide then walk into the story and that's again.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: What again?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: You get again to the Vatican.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You know Jesus would come here and have dinner with us, all of us and then he would say you know, go and sin no more.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: This is the difference, you know, with the leaders.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Now we have all the way from the pulp and and so many of the others.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Right, they go have dinner with you and then they bless you in your sin.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: They never say go and sin no more.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: They never just say go, carry your cross.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: You ever hear them say that.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: They don't, they don't.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You don't hear Father James Martin, you know, as he's blessing same-sex marriages.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: He doesn't say now, go and sin no more, or carry your cross right directly to Jesus Christ.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ was a celibate man who pours himself out to you.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: You'd go and sin no more.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: You do the same.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You know and at the end of the day Saint Paul talks about this right the idolaters that you know, the, the, any, look at you can name my sin, your sin.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: We can name all our sins.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you know we're here to be purified and be temples of the Holy Spirit, not, not, not given into our passions, and not use and abuse people, that you know things.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: It's like same-sex marriage and abortions.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: This is against nature's laws.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: This is against natural law.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be some kind of Even a great Catholic to understand that this stuff is not normal, that we're pushing down on people and we're breaking marriages in the Society and the whole culture starting to come down around us and, at the end of the day, if we don't speak the truth in love and love people in the truth and Tom, then it's a destructive lie and that's what we're living right now.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very well put.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Many, many years ago, Pope John Paul said that one of the greatest Problems that we have is that we no longer know what sin is.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: You know we don't you say that, that we're not told go and sin no more.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: We're not even told anything about sin, right we?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: don't know what that means.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I think that way.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it involves, you know, going deep.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: All we know, Linda is whatever I'm doing is not a sin, that's what we know right.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Go and sin on whatever I'm doing, it feels good, so it's not a sin, right?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the emotions ruling over the intellect is very much part of it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So that's living on the surface of things again, right.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you summed it up quite well there, jack, so that you know this particular audience.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: While St Paul is addressing some very specific issues, the bottom line is still that it's the teachings of Christ himself and you know, we kind of iterated many of those within the context of marriage.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: It's not that one's bad and one's good at all.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: It's that, within that discernment that we each make, we're being called to one or the other.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: We have to have that courage to really, you know, dig deep to see where is God calling me and how am I going to be a gift to others through that call.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this whole message, underlying this whole message, linda, is that our bodies have meaning, sex has meaning, marriage has a meaning.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: It's not all meaningless, right?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: And what we see in the culture?
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: It has no meaning.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Sex has no meaning now, marriage has no meaning.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: And when it has no meaning, then it's meaningless.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: There's no purpose or meaning for our lives, you know, and so young people get the message that their life is an accident and whatever you make of it, you make of it and you know it gets so nuts that you really think I'm a man, I think I can become a woman and get pregnant and breastfeed, and it's totally impossible, but I think I can do it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, bk Chesterton, when you know, when you no longer believe in God, it's not like you don't believe in anything, nothing.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You will believe anything, and it's so true.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: He said that in the 1930s he would have never looked.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: He didn't.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, he said that then and this is what, almost a hundred years later, and what are we looking at?
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, it's nuts, right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: It's nuts, so hey.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Even more nuts, jack, because in Corinthian six nine that was 2000 years ago, right yeah, and it's still with us today, yeah, same thing, and so isn't this.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Let's, let's close with this.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Isn't it almost a joke when you hear the Synod of Synod Alley's and the stuff coming out of the Vatican?
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: When we have to re-image everything, we have to re-image all of this and what you just said 2000 years ago.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: It speaks to us just like it was yesterday.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: You re-image things.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You know what you want to re-image.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: You want to re-image God in your own image, and this is going back to Genesis three and and and these people are pushing this, unfortunately, on a lot of young people and a lot of people that are just nefarious in their own hearts are using this as an excuse, like James Martin right, to just push more heresy on people and you know, blessing, you know I mean, it's just getting almost to the point of being ridiculous, which is why I like it in a way, and when I say I don't, I don't like evil and I don't like to see this.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: But it's so clear now that I like it because of its clarity.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: It's very easy for you to discern now the, the weed and the weed growing together and and to say what John and Paul said look out at the world, get beneath the things, find out what the teaching of Jesus Christ really is and then decide, then decide and make it the size of direction for your life.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You know, and and only then will you find joy, peace, happiness, all these things at the end of the this is at the end of this is a beautiful thing, not, you know we think oh, my God, I got to do all of this stuff.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: This is going to be so hard.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: No, you're finding what's true, what's good, what's beautiful and especially the beauty of love.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, when that decision listens to Jesus Christ.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: It's possible to go the other way, though, and then you'll find yourself wallowing in all the unhappiness that we see surrounding people today.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, the decision is yours.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: It's yours.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: We will.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the beginning.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, hey, god bless you.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us, linda.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again soon.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Thanks, jack, thanks for being with us today.