Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #327 Maggie Freleng with Hope White

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#327 Maggie Freleng with Hope White · Wrongful Conviction

0:05
Speaker 1: In the early morning hours of July nineteenth, two thousand
0:08
Speaker 1: and eight, police discovered the body of twenty four year
0:12
Speaker 1: old Julie Burchett at an abandoned palette mill in Monticello, Kentucky.
0:17
Speaker 1: She had been brutally murdered. Witnesses said they had seen
0:23
Speaker 1: Julie attacked and stabbed by another woman at a house
0:26
Speaker 1: party the night before, and that the party was thrown
0:29
Speaker 1: by Hope White at her mother's house. Did you ever
0:33
Speaker 1: have parties at your mom's house?
0:36
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. My mother would not allow something like that
0:40
Speaker 2: to go on.
0:42
Speaker 1: So what did you think about this whole party story?
0:46
Speaker 2: I thought it was bizarre and guyzy, and I really
0:51
Speaker 2: didn't think that I had anything to worry about because
0:55
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, this is very easy to prove these
0:59
Speaker 2: these people lion.
1:02
Speaker 1: But regardless, Hope was arrested and convicted of the murder
1:06
Speaker 1: of Julie Hicks bur chet.
1:09
Speaker 2: My name is Hope Rena White and I've been in
1:11
Speaker 2: prison for approsingly thirteen years in four months.
1:18
Speaker 1: From LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie
1:20
Speaker 1: Freeling today Hope White.
1:33
Speaker 2: So I'm from Kentucky in a little small town named Monticello.
1:38
Speaker 1: Hope White was born in July thirtieth, nineteen eighty two,
1:41
Speaker 1: to Daryl and Tammy White.
1:45
Speaker 2: We didn't have a lot of money growing up. My
1:46
Speaker 2: mother did work, mostly just at restaurants that didn't pay
1:50
Speaker 2: very much or give her many hours. I did look
1:54
Speaker 2: up to my dad and think that he was the
1:56
Speaker 2: coolest because he did drink and things like that.
2:01
Speaker 1: As a young girl, Hope thought her dad just liked
2:03
Speaker 1: to have a good time. But the truth was.
2:08
Speaker 2: Watched my father suffer from mental illness and addiction to
2:11
Speaker 2: drugs from alcohol.
2:14
Speaker 1: As Hope got older, she says she followed in his footsteps.
2:19
Speaker 2: By the age eleven, I was consigarette, local marijuana, drinking alcohol.
2:25
Speaker 2: I could even go to the local bootleggers and buy
2:28
Speaker 2: my own pont DeLisi. I was very I'm a very
2:34
Speaker 2: attention seeking person, so I would hang out with whoever
2:38
Speaker 2: gave me an attention. Sometimes I might even change my
2:42
Speaker 2: values or my morals, even my appearance for other's approval.
2:52
Speaker 1: But not everyone saw that side of Hope.
2:55
Speaker 3: She was so fun, She was so outgoing, outspoken, passionate.
3:00
Speaker 1: This is Brittany Hope's sister.
3:03
Speaker 3: She is eleven years older than me, So she was
3:06
Speaker 3: someone that I looked up to. My early memories of
3:10
Speaker 3: her are almost a mother role rather than a sister.
3:16
Speaker 3: She was very, very passionate about family, about making sure
3:22
Speaker 3: that I had the same experiences as her children did.
3:26
Speaker 1: Hope had her first daughter, Shonda, in nineteen ninety nine,
3:30
Speaker 1: so she was sixteen when she had her first kid.
3:33
Speaker 1: And if y'all are eleven years apart, you're actually pretty
3:35
Speaker 1: close in age to your nieces and nephews.
3:38
Speaker 4: Correct. Yeah.
3:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, she has two daughters, and the first one is
3:43
Speaker 3: five years younger than me, and the second one is
3:45
Speaker 3: nine years younger than me. We kind of grew up
3:47
Speaker 3: as sisters more so than aunt and niece, just because
3:51
Speaker 3: we're so close in age.
3:57
Speaker 1: When Hope gave birth to Shonda, she knew she wanted
4:00
Speaker 1: a better life for her daughter than she had growing up,
4:02
Speaker 1: but parenthood spun her life in a new direction.
4:08
Speaker 2: Me and her father worked at various places in town.
4:13
Speaker 2: It was a lot harder than what we thought it
4:15
Speaker 2: would be. It didn't take as long to figure out
4:19
Speaker 2: sailing marijuana and fills and was really fast money for
4:24
Speaker 2: a small town. I began to feel powerful having tons
4:28
Speaker 2: of friends and that money and that I wasn't used
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Speaker 2: to having.
4:33
Speaker 1: But to her little sister Brittany, she was still the
4:36
Speaker 1: same Hope at heart.
4:37
Speaker 3: I remember she had and it seems like such a
4:41
Speaker 3: small thing now, but she had went to the gas
4:43
Speaker 3: station and got bug juice, which is these little juices
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Speaker 3: made for kids, and she had already gave them theirs,
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Speaker 3: they had already drank them. And I got home and
4:52
Speaker 3: happened to see like a half empty one, you know,
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Speaker 3: on the counter. And before I could even so much
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Speaker 3: as get a disappointed look on my face, she whipped
5:00
Speaker 3: one out of the fridge and was like, don't worry,
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Speaker 3: I got you one too. It just made me so
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Speaker 3: excited and so happy that even though I wasn't there
5:07
Speaker 3: and she didn't have to get me something, it was
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Speaker 3: so touching to me knowing that she did not have
5:13
Speaker 3: to do that.
5:16
Speaker 1: Hope's second daughter, Desiree, was born in two thousand and three,
5:19
Speaker 1: and two years later, Shanda and Desiree's father went to
5:22
Speaker 1: prison for selling drugs. Hope was left to support her
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Speaker 1: family on her own, but soon she met someone new,
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Speaker 1: a man named Bobby Buster.
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Speaker 2: At first, our relationship was very good. We were good
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Speaker 2: for each other, we got each other sober. He got
5:40
Speaker 2: a good job building houses, for example. I was at
5:45
Speaker 2: home much the kids and force. He paid the bills
5:48
Speaker 2: and everything. So we still didn't have a whole lot
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Speaker 2: of money, and I began listen that fast money. So
5:56
Speaker 2: therefore I started sailing again, and eventually we started to
6:02
Speaker 2: use again together. I started giving a bad one in
6:06
Speaker 2: harder drugs. I began to do things that I wasn't
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Speaker 2: proud of. I'd live. She still, I was very depressed
6:17
Speaker 2: and struggled with anger my whole life. So I acted
6:22
Speaker 2: out a lot of times in violence, many different forms,
6:26
Speaker 2: whether it was getting bangs, steeple, or even harm in myself.
6:34
Speaker 1: Hope says that violence eventually showed up in her relationship
6:36
Speaker 1: with Bobby. It started with their arguments, which soon erupted
6:40
Speaker 1: into physical altercations. By the time Shonda was around nine
6:44
Speaker 1: years old, the neighbors were starting to notice. The night
6:48
Speaker 1: of the murder, there was a domestic violence called to
6:52
Speaker 1: your house? Correct, Yes, can you tell me about that?
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Speaker 1: What happened?
7:00
Speaker 2: Well? Our fight actually started at the lake.
7:19
Speaker 1: On July nineteenth, two thousand and eight. Hope spent most
7:23
Speaker 1: of the day shopping with her mom. Later When Bobby
7:25
Speaker 1: got off work, Hope met up with him and their
7:28
Speaker 1: friends Janet and Billy Burke. The four of them drove
7:31
Speaker 1: out to f and T Lake, a few miles outside
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Speaker 1: of Monticello, to hang out and ride four wheelers. They
7:37
Speaker 1: left for the lake about four thirty PM, and an
7:40
Speaker 1: hour later, Bobby got a citation.
7:43
Speaker 2: From Fish and Wild Laugh for Hopper writing his four
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Speaker 2: wheeler illegally because there's signs all over the place down there,
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Speaker 2: saying that those types of things aren't supposed to be
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Speaker 2: on the property.
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Speaker 1: The evening went downhill from there. Bobby and Hope got
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Speaker 1: into a fight.
8:00
Speaker 2: I really don't even remember what we were fighting about.
8:02
Speaker 2: I was drinking pretty heavily that day, and I do
8:07
Speaker 2: remember a fight and at the lake, and it escalated.
8:12
Speaker 2: I hit myself in the head with a rock at
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Speaker 2: the lake.
8:18
Speaker 1: Once they got back to their apartment, the arguing continued.
8:22
Speaker 1: At around nine pm, a neighbor reported hearing Hope and
8:25
Speaker 1: Bobby fighting. Sometime after that, police received a second call
8:31
Speaker 1: reporting a suspected domestic violence incident at their apartment. Finally,
8:36
Speaker 1: at around eleven that night, the police showed up. They
8:42
Speaker 1: first treated the cut on Hope's forehead from the rock
8:44
Speaker 1: injury earlier that day, and then Deputy John Hurd arrested
8:48
Speaker 1: Hope for an active bench warrant for an unpaid fine.
8:53
Speaker 1: Former Monticello police officer Derek Lester was also at Hope's
8:57
Speaker 1: apartment at that time, but he left top to a
9:00
Speaker 1: reckless driving call. On the way, he drove by an
9:03
Speaker 1: abandoned palette mill and noticed a familiar car parked in
9:07
Speaker 1: the lot. It was one officers had been alerted to
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Speaker 1: pay attention to because its driver didn't have a license.
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Speaker 1: The car belonged to twenty four year old Julie Hicks Perchett,
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Speaker 1: so Officer Lester parked and walked towards the car with
9:21
Speaker 1: a flashlight. As he approached, he saw Julie sprawled across
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Speaker 1: the front seat of her car. She had multiple stab
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Speaker 1: wounds on her body and was lying in a pool
9:33
Speaker 1: of blood dead. This episode is underwritten by AIG, a
9:49
Speaker 1: leading global insurance company. AIG is committed to corporate social
9:54
Speaker 1: responsibility and to making a positive difference in the lives
9:57
Speaker 1: of its employees and in the communities were they work
10:00
Speaker 1: and live. In light of the compelling need for pro
10:03
Speaker 1: bono legal assistance and in recognition of AIG's commitment to
10:07
Speaker 1: criminal and social justice reform, The AIG pro Bono program
10:11
Speaker 1: provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented communities
10:16
Speaker 1: and individuals. As soon as officer Lester found the body
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Speaker 1: at twelve thirty six am, he made a distraught call
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Speaker 1: to his department. He needed all hands on deck at
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Speaker 1: the mill. Officers immediately released Hope from custody and went
10:39
Speaker 1: to the crime scene, and it was a spectacle. People
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Speaker 1: throughout the neighborhood, including Bobby and Hope, gathered to see
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Speaker 1: what the commotion was about. Hope had known Julie most
10:51
Speaker 1: of their lives.
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Speaker 2: We rode the same school bus together our whole entire life,
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Speaker 2: going to school, and after we started hanging round together
11:04
Speaker 2: when we got older, when she got into doing drugs
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Speaker 2: and had got into seal and drugs, she would actually
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Speaker 2: come and buy them from me.
11:15
Speaker 1: The investigation into Julie's murder lasted almost a full year.
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Speaker 1: Witnesses said they had seen Julie's car at the mill
11:22
Speaker 1: starting at ten thirty that morning, and they had seen
11:25
Speaker 1: her coming and going. Her car, however, remained there throughout
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Speaker 1: the day with different men passing by, until about seven
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Speaker 1: thirty PM. The minimal forensic evidence police collected at the
11:37
Speaker 1: scene was of little value. Some of it wasn't tested
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Speaker 1: at all, and the items that were tested did not
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Speaker 1: return any fingerprints or DNA matches. The items included a
11:48
Speaker 1: lighter that was found near Julie's car and a large
11:51
Speaker 1: Jenco sweatshirt that appeared to have blood on it at
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Speaker 1: the time. The DNA samples on the sweatshirt weren't large
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Speaker 1: enough to develop a profile, and while the lighter was fingerprinted,
12:02
Speaker 1: it wasn't tested for DNA at all. Fingernail scrapings were collected,
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Speaker 1: and multiple hairs were also found on Julie's body, clothes
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Speaker 1: and in the car, but none of this was tested
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Speaker 1: at the time of the investigation. The case went cold
12:19
Speaker 1: for months, and then a man named Jason Miller was
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Speaker 1: arrested on felony drug charges.
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Speaker 5: He met with the lead detective for the state Police
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Speaker 5: and the prosecutor and said he knew something about the murder.
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Speaker 1: This is Miranda Hellman, an attorney with the Kentucky Innocence
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Speaker 1: Project who now represents Hope. Miranda says how exactly Jason
12:43
Speaker 1: came forward is unknown.
12:46
Speaker 5: Not a lot of it is recorded we do know
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Speaker 5: from there that they kind of took Jason out into
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Speaker 5: the county and had him try to walk through the narrative.
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Speaker 1: Jason Miller told police that the knight of Julie's murder,
13:00
Speaker 1: he was at a party at Hope's mother's house and
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Speaker 1: that he had seen Hope kill Julie in a fight there.
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Speaker 1: His story was that Hope confronted Julie about sleeping with
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Speaker 1: her boyfriend and then stabbed her, spewing blood everywhere. Police
13:15
Speaker 1: wanted more details.
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Speaker 5: So they actually take him on a ride along from
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Speaker 5: the courthouse where he's supposed to point out where the
13:22
Speaker 5: party occurred, where Hope's mom lived, how things occurred, but
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Speaker 5: he couldn't identify the house, He couldn't identify the route.
13:31
Speaker 5: Julie's cell phone was missing. He said that it was
13:33
Speaker 5: in his car and he threw it out into the
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Speaker 5: woods on the way out of the neighborhood, you know,
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Speaker 5: away from Hope's mom's house, and then he had literally
13:42
Speaker 5: the prosecutor and the police looking for a cell phone
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Speaker 5: in the ditch, but was never located.
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Speaker 1: Jason also couldn't say what date this happened, or what
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Speaker 1: Julie was wearing. Rather he gave the names of three
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Speaker 1: people he said, we're also at the party. The first
14:02
Speaker 1: witness Jason named was Seth Frost, but Frost denied any
14:07
Speaker 1: knowledge of the murder. Meanwhile, Adam Manning, the second witness,
14:11
Speaker 1: was also in jail on a pending felony charge. When
14:14
Speaker 1: he was questioned, Manning said he arrived at the party
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Speaker 1: at ten pm and that there were approximately thirty to
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Speaker 1: thirty five people there. He said the stabbing happened at
14:23
Speaker 1: around midnight, but in a completely different location in the
14:26
Speaker 1: house than where Jason Miller had placed it. Scotty Stanton,
14:32
Speaker 1: the third witness Miller named, gave a statement different from
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Speaker 1: all the others. He said they went to the party
14:38
Speaker 1: after a football game around eleven pm, although it wasn't
14:41
Speaker 1: football season. He said they saw some girls arguing and left,
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Speaker 1: and he didn't see anything related to a stabbing. Stanton
14:49
Speaker 1: couldn't give an exact date either.
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Speaker 4: None of it adds up.
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Speaker 5: No one's story is consistent enough to even really say
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Speaker 5: it happened on this day and time July, So you
15:01
Speaker 5: know when all these people were supposed to be at
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Speaker 5: this party, but only three can tell you a story
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Speaker 5: that even points to Hope is incredibly concerning. And it's
15:10
Speaker 5: not just concerning for me, you know, as a citizen
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Speaker 5: and me as a defense attorney, or.
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Speaker 4: Me as an advocate for Hope.
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Speaker 5: It's concerning in that, you know, why did they push
15:20
Speaker 5: so hard to get this story? You know, why did
15:23
Speaker 5: they use these people that had pending charges.
15:29
Speaker 1: And despite the allegations that dozens of people were at
15:32
Speaker 1: this party, no one called the police after Julie was
15:36
Speaker 1: supposedly brutally murdered, and no one was identified or interviewed
15:41
Speaker 1: from the alleged party other than Jason Miller and the
15:44
Speaker 1: three witnesses he named.
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Speaker 4: One of them says they're there for an hour.
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Speaker 5: One of them says they're there for five minutes, and
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Speaker 5: that there was a fight in the back of the house.
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Speaker 5: I'm arguing Hope came out of the bathroom in the
15:57
Speaker 5: back of the house and just picked up an knife.
16:01
Speaker 5: No one really describes what the knife is, if it's
16:03
Speaker 5: a kitchen knife, a pocket knife, two knives, one knife,
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Speaker 5: nobody really knows, and just stabs her.
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Speaker 1: The stories get even more confused from there.
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Speaker 5: Nobody says how many times, nobody really says where in
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Speaker 5: the house they all described the house as this open
16:22
Speaker 5: floor plan had a pool table in the middle of
16:25
Speaker 5: the living room and a chair in the corner, and
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Speaker 5: that Hope had walked out into this living room and
16:31
Speaker 5: that's where the stabbing occurred, somewhere between the hallway and
16:34
Speaker 5: the living room. And then everyone says they left. Jason
16:37
Speaker 5: says he left as soon as that stabbing happens. Adam
16:41
Speaker 5: and Scottie say the same. So there's no testimony or
16:45
Speaker 5: explanation about what happens after that, how a body would
16:48
Speaker 5: have been transported, Who would have transported it. I've been
16:52
Speaker 5: in Tammy's house multiple times. We actually had the layout
16:56
Speaker 5: at trial the defense attorneys did to show whatever house
16:59
Speaker 5: they were to describing couldn't have been Tammy's house.
17:01
Speaker 4: It's not how her house is laid out.
17:05
Speaker 1: Despite these shaky testimonies, police executed a search warrant for
17:09
Speaker 1: Tammy White's house. They went in with cadaver dogs and luminol,
17:13
Speaker 1: which is just like.
17:14
Speaker 5: A spray that reacts to black light, and it will
17:17
Speaker 5: react when it hits certain things. So one of the
17:20
Speaker 5: big ones' is blood or bodily fluids. So the quote
17:24
Speaker 5: at trial was that when they hit the black light
17:27
Speaker 5: in Tammy's house that it lit up like a Christmas tree,
17:30
Speaker 5: and I've seen the photos it did that the walls,
17:33
Speaker 5: the floor, every piece of this house looked like it
17:36
Speaker 5: was having a reaction to luminol. So they pull floor samples,
17:39
Speaker 5: carpet samples, door, drywall, everything.
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Speaker 1: But when they tested these samples, no blood or DNA
17:47
Speaker 1: showed up on any of them. Police also never interviewed
17:51
Speaker 1: any of Tammy's neighbors to find out if they saw
17:53
Speaker 1: a party happening. These neighbors would have had a direct
17:56
Speaker 1: line of sight to the house and would have seen
17:59
Speaker 1: dozens of people and cars coming and going. The police, however,
18:03
Speaker 1: did speak to Bobby.
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Speaker 2: The cops really pushed for him to sign safe evidence
18:13
Speaker 2: against me, to say that this party did happen and
18:18
Speaker 2: that he did witness a murder, And they really pushed
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Speaker 2: him to say that this is the truth and this
18:26
Speaker 2: is what's gonna happen, or we're going to charge you
18:29
Speaker 2: for the murder. Also, it also said that they would
18:36
Speaker 2: let him off his charges that he was facing if
18:40
Speaker 2: he would just tell the truth about the whole murders.
18:44
Speaker 1: But Bobby refused to lie. As the cops were pressuring
18:48
Speaker 1: him to do Despite that, Hope was ultimately indicted on
18:52
Speaker 1: August eighteenth, two thousand and nine.
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Speaker 2: When they first resided me, I wasn't really I wasn't
19:00
Speaker 2: really worried about it. I just thought, Okay, this is
19:03
Speaker 2: a mix up. It's very easy to prove the these
19:07
Speaker 2: sep a lion, and I have people to back me
19:10
Speaker 2: up where I was at, what I was doing. This
19:13
Speaker 2: will be cleared up in no time. I'll go to
19:17
Speaker 2: the accounting and get booked in and I will be released.
19:24
Speaker 1: So Hope cooperated with the police. She had nothing to hide.
19:29
Speaker 2: They asked me for a sample my DNA I gave
19:31
Speaker 2: back to them. They asked me for at a lot
19:36
Speaker 2: of sector test I gave back to him, which I passed.
19:41
Speaker 1: Yet, investigators continued to focus on Hope as a prime suspect.
19:47
Speaker 2: Instead of doing any other investigation on any other lease
19:50
Speaker 2: that they may have had at the time or could
19:53
Speaker 2: have done.
19:55
Speaker 1: Such as Julie's ex boyfriend at the time. Clues about
19:58
Speaker 1: this came from Julie's which was found in the trunk
20:01
Speaker 1: of her car. Inside it were numerous love letters from
20:05
Speaker 1: a man named Billy Shepherd alluding to buying her a
20:08
Speaker 1: wedding ring. And saying if he could not be with her,
20:11
Speaker 1: then he did not want to live. Shepherd also called
20:14
Speaker 1: Julie on the afternoon of her murder, but he was
20:17
Speaker 1: never investigated. Police also had another suspect, Rodney Porter, who
20:26
Speaker 1: drove a car that was seen at the mill the
20:28
Speaker 1: day Julie was murdered. Even though she was married at
20:31
Speaker 1: the time, Porter was rumored to also have been in
20:34
Speaker 1: a relationship with Julie.
20:38
Speaker 5: He was a suspect for some amount of time. We
20:40
Speaker 5: know he's listed as a suspect in many of the
20:42
Speaker 5: police documents, and then about six months of investigation occurs
20:49
Speaker 5: and at some point the suspect.
20:51
Speaker 4: Changes to Hope.
20:54
Speaker 5: Really, there's no explanation other than the story from Jason Miller.
21:18
Speaker 1: When you were at trial, did you think everything was
21:20
Speaker 1: going to work out?
21:23
Speaker 2: I absolutely did. I had faith in the justice system
21:27
Speaker 2: that yes, the people didn't go to jail. So once
21:32
Speaker 2: this happened to me, I realized now and by looking
21:35
Speaker 2: at back at everything that's happened, of how much corruption
21:39
Speaker 2: is in a small town like the one I lived in.
21:46
Speaker 1: Hope's trial started on April sixteenth, twenty ten. Prosecutor Matthew
21:55
Speaker 1: Leverage laid out the state's case. He said that Hope
21:58
Speaker 1: thought Bobby was cheating on her Julie, so she killed her.
22:02
Speaker 1: To this allegation, Hope admits that she, Bobby, and Julie
22:05
Speaker 1: sometimes participated in casual three zones, but it was all
22:10
Speaker 1: mutually consensual.
22:13
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how the police they even knew that
22:15
Speaker 2: we had had these encounters in private, but they asked
22:19
Speaker 2: me about them, and I was honest, and they kind
22:22
Speaker 2: of took their own a little bit of the truth
22:25
Speaker 2: and sun it into their own theory and of events
22:29
Speaker 2: that I supposedly played out in the non in question.
22:32
Speaker 1: The prosecution called all four alleged witnesses once again. They
22:37
Speaker 1: all gave different accounts, with very few details matching their
22:40
Speaker 1: original statements or those of each other. The only person
22:44
Speaker 1: whose story was consistent with what he told police was
22:47
Speaker 1: Seth Frost.
22:49
Speaker 5: He said, this didn't happen. He said, they've talked to
22:51
Speaker 5: the police, they've threatened me. I'm terrified, but this never
22:55
Speaker 5: happened and I'm not going to say it did. So
22:58
Speaker 5: the jury, here's testimony from these witnesses talking about this party,
23:03
Speaker 5: with the understanding that we're going to find Julie's blood
23:05
Speaker 5: in this house and its damning evidence against Hope.
23:09
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, there.
23:11
Speaker 5: Was no blood found on any of the items submitted
23:13
Speaker 5: from Tammy's house. Nothing ties anyone to this murder, and
23:18
Speaker 5: most certainly does not tie Hope or her home or
23:21
Speaker 5: her mother's home to Julian anyway.
23:25
Speaker 1: There was also no blood found outside of Julie's car.
23:28
Speaker 1: The inside of the car, though, was soaked in blood,
23:31
Speaker 1: indicating that the murder happened inside the car, which totally
23:35
Speaker 1: invalidated the story of the stabbing at Tammy White's house.
23:39
Speaker 1: When it came to the physical evidence, the prosecution reiterated
23:43
Speaker 1: that the case lacked forensic evidence. Except there actually was some.
23:48
Speaker 1: It was either just untested or simply did not incriminate Hope.
23:52
Speaker 1: Yet the jury never heard this.
23:55
Speaker 5: Much of the trial felt like smoke and mirrors. It
23:58
Speaker 5: was alluding to what you're going to hear and then
24:01
Speaker 5: you never hear it, alluding to there's you know, there's
24:05
Speaker 5: evidence against her. But really the evidence were just these
24:08
Speaker 5: eyewitness statements that truly weren't I don't believe believable eyewitness statements.
24:14
Speaker 1: So Hope's public defenders, Jim Cox and Teresa Whittaker were
24:18
Speaker 1: left to try and discredit these supposed eyewitnesses and their stories.
24:22
Speaker 1: They called a witness who said he saw Hope and
24:24
Speaker 1: Bobby at the lake that day, and that he drove
24:27
Speaker 1: past Tammy's house later that night and didn't see any party.
24:31
Speaker 1: Hope also testified at her trial, as did Bobby. He
24:34
Speaker 1: said Hope was with him all day and night and
24:37
Speaker 1: they were not at a party. Did you ever have
24:41
Speaker 1: parties at your mom's house?
24:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. My mother would not allow something like that
24:47
Speaker 2: to go on. She knew that I did drugs and
24:52
Speaker 2: stuff sometimes that she was basically she would be in
24:56
Speaker 2: mind but all the time about what I should be
24:59
Speaker 2: doing and what I should not be doing, and what
25:02
Speaker 2: my kids should and should not be around, and she
25:05
Speaker 2: would never allow something like that to go on in
25:07
Speaker 2: her home.
25:08
Speaker 1: They also called Hope's younger sister, Brittany to the stand. Brittany,
25:12
Speaker 1: who lived with their mother Tammy, had been home alone
25:15
Speaker 1: all evening.
25:17
Speaker 5: She testified that she vividly remembered this phone call that
25:20
Speaker 5: she had with her friend. Her friend actually testified too
25:23
Speaker 5: that yes, I was on the phone with Brittany all night.
25:25
Speaker 5: We talked till two o'clock in the morning, and I
25:28
Speaker 5: don't think there was a party there. Tammy was not
25:30
Speaker 5: home that night, so Brittany was home alone.
25:35
Speaker 3: I had never been in a courtroom before, had never
25:37
Speaker 3: been in front of a judge. I remember being so scared,
25:42
Speaker 3: especially whenever it was the prosecution turn. I understood enough
25:49
Speaker 3: to know that they were going to try to say
25:52
Speaker 3: things to confuse me or maybe make it look like
25:56
Speaker 3: I wasn't telling the truth, things like that. So it
25:58
Speaker 3: was really terrifying, and I felt a lot of weight,
26:02
Speaker 3: you know, from making sure I said the right thing
26:05
Speaker 3: and not saying something incorrectly or it come off incorrectly,
26:09
Speaker 3: just because I didn't know how to word it because
26:11
Speaker 3: I was a kid, you know, when it happened.
26:15
Speaker 1: The defense stressed to the jury that there was no
26:18
Speaker 1: way this party happened and that Hope could not have
26:21
Speaker 1: killed Julie at the same time she was at the
26:23
Speaker 1: lake or at the same time police were at her
26:26
Speaker 1: apartment responding to the domestic violence call. But that is
26:29
Speaker 1: all they could do.
26:31
Speaker 5: You know, it's very hard to say those three people
26:33
Speaker 5: are lying and this party never happened, because you know,
26:36
Speaker 5: what proof do you have of the negative? So it
26:39
Speaker 5: was really It was a struggle at trial to be
26:41
Speaker 5: able to disprove, you know, no matter how impossible the
26:44
Speaker 5: timelines were or the stories were, to believe that this
26:47
Speaker 5: truly didn't happen.
26:52
Speaker 2: It was very emotional. I tried off to show emotion
26:59
Speaker 2: while I was in there, and I try to mask
27:01
Speaker 2: my feelings. Really seeing her pictures and the things that
27:08
Speaker 2: Julie went through was very dramatic and distriving to me.
27:14
Speaker 2: I had dreams about it for a long time. Sometimes
27:18
Speaker 2: I still do.
27:22
Speaker 1: But a jury convicted Hope of Julie's murder. She was
27:25
Speaker 1: sentenced to thirty years in prison. Hope was in absolute shock,
27:32
Speaker 1: but her first thoughts were for her family.
27:36
Speaker 2: The only thing I could hear was my mom's screaming,
27:40
Speaker 2: oh my god, my baby, and she ran out of
27:43
Speaker 2: the courtroom crying. And yet I hear that a lot
27:48
Speaker 2: still and the pain in her voice, and that I
27:52
Speaker 2: kept my feeling my attorneys, please go check on my mom,
27:56
Speaker 2: Please go check on my mom, my children. Everything's me.
28:06
Speaker 1: A year and a half after Hope's trial, her conviction
28:09
Speaker 1: was actually overturned due to a legal error, and she
28:12
Speaker 1: was granted a second trial.
28:15
Speaker 2: I didn't have no hope during that second trial, I
28:18
Speaker 2: knew I was coming back to prison, but.
28:20
Speaker 1: Hope was again convicted and sentenced to twenty five years
28:24
Speaker 1: in prison. So what has it been like for you
28:32
Speaker 1: and the family to have Hope in prison.
28:36
Speaker 3: It was really really hard, honestly, And I feel like
28:39
Speaker 3: I can speak for me and my nieces whenever I
28:42
Speaker 3: say that they were so little whenever it happened, So
28:49
Speaker 3: it was really really hard to have to explain to them,
28:51
Speaker 3: you know, where their mom went and why she wasn't
28:54
Speaker 3: there for Christmases or birthdays and things like that. So yeah,
28:57
Speaker 3: it was pretty traumatizing and really really hard.
29:01
Speaker 1: And Hope desperately missed her kids.
29:04
Speaker 2: They never spent a night without me but maybe go
29:08
Speaker 2: see my mom for a weekend or something. Other than that,
29:12
Speaker 2: they was never out of my sight and being without them,
29:18
Speaker 2: Like I said before, I've struggled with oppression my whole life,
29:24
Speaker 2: and I really struggled. I'm hurting myself for years because
29:30
Speaker 2: I didn't have them in my life anymore and because
29:33
Speaker 2: of what had happened to me. And I'm just grateful
29:38
Speaker 2: that I was strong enough to be able to know
29:42
Speaker 2: realize that they needed me more, whether it was inside
29:45
Speaker 2: of these walls than not at all.
29:52
Speaker 1: So as soon as she could, Hope reached out to
29:54
Speaker 1: the Kentucky Innocence Project and in twenty fourteen they took
29:59
Speaker 1: on her case that.
30:00
Speaker 5: Had every marker that you know of a wrongful conviction
30:04
Speaker 5: case that we know about. From day one of trial,
30:09
Speaker 5: of attend day trial, it was obvious that nothing in
30:12
Speaker 5: the case matched a timeline that could exist. There were
30:16
Speaker 5: testimony that was conflicting, you know, all over the place,
30:19
Speaker 5: and all of the physical evidence that was supposed to
30:22
Speaker 5: be presented against Hope.
30:24
Speaker 4: From the beginning of the trial never came to fruition.
30:28
Speaker 1: Not only that, rumors were floating around town about the
30:31
Speaker 1: police officers who were involved in the case and whether
30:34
Speaker 1: they could be trusted. Do you think there was police
30:38
Speaker 1: corruption in your case?
30:40
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there was a loss of police corruption in my case.
30:46
Speaker 2: It was really weird from Derek Wester signding Julie in
30:51
Speaker 2: the ways that he found Julie and how he was
30:53
Speaker 2: even out of his jurisdiction. Could be in that area
30:58
Speaker 2: to begin.
30:59
Speaker 1: With, because Hope says Julie had also told her something
31:03
Speaker 1: about Derek Lester.
31:05
Speaker 2: Eric would I ask for sexual fighters to keep her
31:08
Speaker 2: from getting a driven on no license.
31:13
Speaker 1: What's more, Miranda says that other aspects of the story
31:17
Speaker 1: the states strung together didn't make sense.
31:20
Speaker 5: It's physically impossible to drive to the places that they
31:24
Speaker 5: would have driven to in the timeframe that they had.
31:27
Speaker 5: Our theory was always that this happened in her vehicle
31:31
Speaker 5: because of the amount of blood, but that was never
31:33
Speaker 5: really presented at trial. Someone stood over her and stabbed her.
31:38
Speaker 1: And this person could also have been the one whose
31:41
Speaker 1: hairs were found at the scene.
31:43
Speaker 5: There's a very good chance that hair belongs to the
31:45
Speaker 5: person who committed this crime, or could have been on her,
31:50
Speaker 5: you know, from during the day and would tell us
31:53
Speaker 5: more about who she was with and where she was.
31:55
Speaker 4: So that hair seems incredibly important.
31:58
Speaker 1: And as it turns out, Hope's trial defense team did
32:01
Speaker 1: not even know the hairs existed and they were never tested.
32:06
Speaker 1: So Miranda and the Kentucky Innocence Project have been focused
32:10
Speaker 1: on getting those hairs tested and acquiring other evidence that
32:13
Speaker 1: was either tested years ago with limited technology or never
32:17
Speaker 1: tested at all. After the requests for DNA testing were
32:23
Speaker 1: denied a few times, there was a glimmer of Hope.
32:28
Speaker 5: So we were recently actually granted an oral argument to
32:32
Speaker 5: talk about the testing statute as it applas to Hope,
32:35
Speaker 5: and hopefully as it applies to many more of our
32:37
Speaker 5: clients that could benefit from this more liberal review of
32:42
Speaker 5: cases that should be eligible for post conviction testing.
32:47
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Hope focuses on moving forward.
32:51
Speaker 2: Since I've been incars Rad, I have gotten my GV
32:54
Speaker 2: and I would like to finish college right now. I
32:58
Speaker 2: have a job. I'm doing LANDA. If I'm not at work,
33:04
Speaker 2: I'm either on the file with the family members or
33:07
Speaker 2: my children.
33:09
Speaker 1: Shonda and Desiree are now adults. Hope watch them grow
33:12
Speaker 1: up from behind bars.
33:14
Speaker 2: I talked to them all of now. We have a
33:17
Speaker 2: very good relationship since I've been in here. Shonda has
33:23
Speaker 2: three daughters of her own.
33:24
Speaker 1: Now, and Brittany believes that her sister will be proven innocent.
33:30
Speaker 1: Do you talk about her getting out? Do you talk
33:32
Speaker 1: about the future all the time.
33:36
Speaker 3: I think that helps her a lot, because that gives
33:41
Speaker 3: her something to look forward to. It's cheesy, but I
33:46
Speaker 3: joke with her all the time that her name is
33:49
Speaker 3: her name for a reason. Of course, my mom didn't
33:51
Speaker 3: know that when she named her, But that's something that
33:54
Speaker 3: we use now a lot to try to encourage her
33:58
Speaker 3: and just tell her, you know, you have to keep
34:00
Speaker 3: having Hope.
34:05
Speaker 2: I really want to do something to help other people.
34:09
Speaker 2: I really dream is to become an attorney and or
34:14
Speaker 2: someone like the Innocent Project and be able to help
34:17
Speaker 2: people that have wrongfully convicted. That's my dream.
34:28
Speaker 1: If you want to help Hope and the Kentucky Innocence Project,
34:31
Speaker 1: go to the link in our bio. Next time Unwrongful
34:38
Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling Brendan Woodruff.
34:43
Speaker 2: They felt like he was a lot more sinister when
34:45
Speaker 2: really it was just me being myself.
34:47
Speaker 3: But your clothing doesn't make you a killer.
34:49
Speaker 2: And you liking guys and girls or just guys or
34:53
Speaker 2: just girls, they doesn't make you a killer either.
35:01
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please
35:04
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links
35:07
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help. I'd
35:10
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wurtis,
35:13
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson,
35:17
Speaker 1: and story editor Sonia Paul. The show is edited and
35:21
Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea with additional production by Jeff Cliburn
35:24
Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by
35:27
Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to
35:31
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35:35
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as
35:39
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35:42
Speaker 1: you can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter
35:45
Speaker 1: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a
35:48
Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal
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Speaker 1: Company Number one mo