Latest / Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries / #415: From Starliner's Slip to Lunar Lights: A Glimpse into Tomorrow's Space Tech

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#415: From Starliner's Slip to Lunar Lights: A Glimpse into Tomorrow's Space Tech · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

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Hello again, thank you for joining us. This is Space Nuts, the
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podcast about astronomy and space science. My name, my name is I forget.
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My name is Andrew Dunkley, your host. It's good to have your
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company. Coming up on today's edition, We've got quite a few things to
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talk about. The the ups and downs, or certainly not ups of the
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Boeing star Liner. We'll have a quick chat about that. Lighting up the
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Moon with reflectors is on the agenda. And using satellites to predict crop yields.
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Yes, they looked down from space and go, oh that looks crop.
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And we're going to look at a special special anniversary with Professor Fred Watson.
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All coming up on this edition of Space Nuts fifteen in Channel ten nine
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ignition Space Nuts NI or three two Space Nuts as when I report it.
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Bill's good and here he is the man of the Millie second Professor Fred Wat's
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an astronomer A large Hello, Fred, I love Andrew. That was a
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pretty croppy introduction you did there. Yes, I have to agree with you.
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Most of my introductions are here. You been all well? Well,
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thank you all good? Still still it's got strong still a stronger at larging.
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Yes, no, fair enough all right, let's let's get started.
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I want to talk about the Boeing star Liner because they were I've been reading
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stories about it for the last week or so. They were so ramped up
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after years of delays, we were finally going to get it off the ground,
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and ah, it slipped on a banana. I don't know what happened,
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but it's it looks like another delay. It was, Yes, so
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the crew of two this was going to be the first crew mission of the
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star Liner, and it was going to wind up at the International Space Station
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and probably come back from there as well. And the launch was set for
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Friday our time. I think I'm right in saying that I can't remember.
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I get so many tag your word for it launch dates in my mind.
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You know, these days you can look forward to a launch pretty well every
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day. Anyway, it was recently. Maybe it wasn't Friday. I think
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that might have been Changese six at launched on Friday, which was also successful.
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The star Liner, however, I think they got to within two hours
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of liftoff. Might be exaggerating there, and there was a sort of vibrating
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valve I think on the rocket itself rather than the star Liner, which caused
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the launch not just to be paused, but to be scrubbed. That was
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the official term term scrub, and in fact you can find online you can
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find the dialogue between mission control and the two astronauts in the capsule where I've
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actually got it Houston beep beep thing something like that. I think that I
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mean Houston or it's equivalent. In twentieth first centuries, speak said we're scrubbing
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the launch, and you could tell, you know, just the it was
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Roger. Yeah, it wasn't Roger. It was Roger Roger, I think
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the laster. Yeah, that's I mean the you know, I think they'd
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be happy to scrub anything that was imparting a risk to the launch, So
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I think you'd be happy with that. But yes, the disappointment when you're
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all you're basically keyed up, because you know, within a matter of ours,
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if not less, you're you're going to be docking at the International Space
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Station. The last I heard was that it's scrubbed for at least ten days,
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and in fact, I've just saw some photos this morning of the the
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assembly basically the rocket booster with the star Liner on top being moved back to
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the kind of servicing bay that they've got there, something a bit like that,
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you know, vehicle assembly building that there is at Pad thirty nine.
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Anyway, so it's scrubbed for a while, so hopefully we will catch up
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with better news soon. It was pretty exciting. It will be you know,
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Bowing's first CREWD mission to space. Yes, well, I'm sure it
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will happen. But as we've said many times in the past, safety first,
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so they're just being ultra careful, and who can blame them for that?
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All right, let's move on to the Moon. To the Moon and
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back. This is a really interesting story because we're looking there's so much interest
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in the Moon. We've got a lot of missions either there or on their
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way there, and they're not too distant. Future human missions coming up soon.
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I know China is looking at putting a base there, whether it's on
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the surface or in orbit, a research base of some kind, and it's
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just going to get bigger and bigger. And the Moon's got a lot of
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attention because well, it's got resources there that people want. But when you
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get there and set up bases and have people there long term, there are
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challenges, and one of those is light that's a problem. It is,
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and yes, you know, you're absolutely right. The South Pole in particular,
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which is a very heavily created region of the Moon's surface, is attracting
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international attention because we have evidence from a number of spacecraft, actually notably an
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Indian one Chandra Yara think it was called, which the evidence supports the notion
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that there is water ice on the floor of these craters, because being at
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the south pole of the Moon, the creaters themselves never see the sun overhead
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or anything like overhead. It's always at an angle low down in the sky,
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and in most cases so low that it never rises above the walls of
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these creators, and so sorry the craters. And so the floor of the
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crater is basically yes, it's got ice on it, which may have been
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there for millions, perhaps billions of years, but that ice is basically unobtainable
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because there's no sunlight, so you can't melt it, nor can you use
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electrical power to decompose it into hydrogen and oxygen, which is what everybody is
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keen on doing. It gives you a free supply of oxygen to breathe and
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hydrogen plus oxygen to make rocket fuel. So that's why there's so much interest
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in the ice in these creators is a potential resource for future exploration of not
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just the Moon, but the Solar system generally. So there's the problem.
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Power especially is a problem because these never see the Sun. And that sort
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of thinking has led a group of scientists somewhat sextas A and M University,
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some at NASA Langley Research Center to think about how you deal with this,
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and they have basically done the obvious. They've said, well, why can't
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we reflect the light of the Sun down into the crater? So you focus
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it onto the solar panels and you've got a mirror near the near the rim
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of the crater. So that's the plan the research, which is still apparently
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in quite an early stage. What they've done, though, is to use
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fairly sophisticated modeling systems computer models to show what will be the best kind of
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surface and the best sorts of materials as well to use. And it's no
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surprise that a parabolic shape comes out as being the optimal. That's because paraboloid
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focus is light. That's what many telescope mirrors are made of. Paraboidal mirror
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that focuses the starlight onto it to make an image, which you then magnify
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it with an eyepiece. So what you do with your mirror is steer it
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so it's always basically pointing at the sun in such a way that it reflects
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the light down to your solar panels, and have it on a mountain that
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will track the Sun as it goes around the sky. Now, the other
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thing that I think is new about this is well two things here. One
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of the problems is you want to make your mirror as big as possible in
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order to collect as much sunlight as possible. But reflectors are not very easy
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to fold up into the cargo bay of a spacecraft, or at least you
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know its cargo pod in the nose of the spacecraft, and so you need
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something that will fold up. Now we've encountered this problem before Andrew In a
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well known thing called the James Web telescope, which was indeed folded up because
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it was made of sixteen, sorry eighteen hexagonal segments that could be folded away.
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What they think of for this, though, because the optical sing optical
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surfacing requirements to nowhere near astringent. What they're thinking about is using new materials,
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and in particular something which is called a self morphing material, which has
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actually been developed texas A and M. So what you do is you have
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what they call shape memory materials and change the shape in response to changes in
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temperature. And you'd certainly get a change in temperature when you go at the
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south pool of the Moon, because the temperature when the sun's not there drops
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to about minus one hundred and fifty. When the sun's there, it's about
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plus one hundred and fifty, And so I think there's a bit of give
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and take in those levels, but it's that sort of order. So shape
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morephing materials that will kind of basically pop into the right shape when the sun
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gets on them are a nice idea. And maybe this is a way to
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the future for the south pole of the Moon. Maybe are you ready for
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this one? Gat to me on reflection, that's a good idea. You
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should be on the radio. Oh God, no, thanks? How much?
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Lie? Are we talking about generating? Here? A mirrorsworth? I
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guess? And there is a comparison, Andrew, and I've forgotten the name
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of the place, but there is a valley in Norway, southern Norway.
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It's not that far from it's a valley that doesn't there's a town in the
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bottom of the valley that doesn't see the sun for I don't know, a
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couple of months around the winter solstice, which of course means kind of November,
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December, January, that sort of time. And so they have a
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mirror on a hilltop that does see the sun and basically beams a pool of
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light. I think it's a flat mirror other than a parabolic one, beams
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a pool of light down into the town square so that people can, you
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know, people who suffer from sad what's that season or something disorder in winter
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blues. Yeah, in winter blues, which is pretty serious in those Scandinavian
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countries. So people can get a taste of sunlight without having to get on
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the jet to go to Mayoka or somewhere like that. The other thing that
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comes to mind with this is, and this is a bit off the track,
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but you can't You've got to watch out for those focusing mirrors because it
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was a story it's probably three four years ago now, a new building in
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London which had a glass surfaces, a skyscraper glass surface that was curved and
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it was basically cars. Yeah, it was melting the insides of it.
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Yeah, come back to their car and all the plastics melted onto the floor
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of the car. Wow, this building's focused the sunlight onto it. So
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that's not what The other problem I heard with buildings like that is it causes
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bird problems. They don't realize it's actually a solid object because they can see
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a direct reflection of what's around and behind them, so they go straight into
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it. Thousands of birds get killed every year from these situations. That's right.
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That's unlikely to be an issue for the lunar as the Moon, yes,
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but it is certainly is on the Earth. Yeah, you mentioned how
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cold it gets down in those craters on the Moon. I stand to be
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corrected, but I do believe that at the bottom of some of those craters
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it's the coldest place in the Solar system as far as I'm aware. Yes,
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it's going to be. You're right, there are record breakers for the
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coldest place in the Solar system. And I think I've read the same thing
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as you have. The bottom of those creators, they never see the sun,
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and you know, thermal temperature losses, the thermal radiation that you get
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from those into the blackness of space probably do make them very cold. Indeed,
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hm hmm, yeah, I mean I could be wrong about that,
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and there are so many very cold places in the Solar systems down the bottom.
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Sorry, go ahead on, I was going to say, yes,
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we've got the delay probably here Andrew both talk over one another. I'm going
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to just continue. I think the coldest place in the Solar System is in
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a laboratory somewhere in the United States, where the artificially created temperatures just a
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few, you know, micro degrees above absolute zero. So, in fact,
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I think I've read either that or either that or it's their management style
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could be that too. Yeah, all right, so yeah, lighting up
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the Moon a very interesting concept and one that will probably come to fruition.
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Will shed more light on that down the track, haha, And you can
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find out more about it at fizz dot or this is space Nuts. Andrew
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Dunkley here with Professor Fred what's that and space nuts? Now? Fred,
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we mentioned an anniversary at the head of the program, ten years of Hippie.
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Yeah it isn't you know. It's for a start, it's such a
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brilliant acronym. But you're absolutely right Hippie has been going for ten years.
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Hippie is spelled not hi double p y, but h I double pi,
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and it's an acronym for the high precision polar emetric instrument, so high hip
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high precision pio polar emetric instrument. That acronym has actually been very useful in
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the last day or so because people are wishing it to Hippie birthday because it's
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ten years old. So Hippie bird, I'll tell you my reaction. I've
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got the shakes. Oh yeah, tell that one Hippi Hippi shore for goodness
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sake, not strictly, some people get that, the other will two of
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them. I got it two of the other ones somewhere. So it's well,
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you know, to tell the story. What was celebrated yesterday, and
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just for reference, yesterday our time was the eighth of May twenty twenty twenty
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four. On the eighth of May twenty fourteen, Hippie was first used on
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the Angle Australian Telescope. I was at that time this astronomery in charge of
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the Angle Australian Telescope, so I remember it all pretty well. But what
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I didn't realize at that time was just how powerful an instrument this was,
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and what an illustrious life it was going to have down the track as it
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has done for ten years. So that machine has been evolved. It's now,
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excuse me, Hippie two, which is the you know, it's the
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improved version. It's been used on the Anglo Australian Telescope, It's been used
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on the Germany North Telescope at Mana, KaiA, so one of the biggest
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telescopes in the world, the eight point two meter telescope, and a number
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of other telescopes as well, both in America and in Australia. So it's
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got a fabulous track record. It's it's brainchild again. Sorry, no,
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it's farther figure, if I can put it that way. It was a
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colleague and friend of mine by the name of Jeremy Bailey. He when he
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sent out a lovely notice yesterday advertising Hippie's tenth birthday, and it's not online,
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it's just something that we know between astronomers. He basically included a list
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of all the publications that Hippie has has resulted in, which come from eighty
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four hundred and eighteen Individual polarization Measurement that's pretty impressive. It do what does
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it do? It just sits in a corner and goes, oy man,
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this is so cool. Yeah, I think it'd be quite good if it
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did the Sorry, you put my train of thought in an entirely different direction.
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You're now reflecting on your youth. Well, I'm actually reflecting on them,
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on two people who we and I won't say where they were or how
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we met them, but two people that we basically named Cheech and chum because
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that's what Yes, that's right, Yes, so I remember. The clue
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is in the acronym a high precision polar imetary instrument, and polar imetry is
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about measuring polarized lights. You can do it in radio waves as well,
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but that's with radio telescopes. This is an optical polarimetry instrument. And you
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know, I'm sure Jeremy would cringe if he heard me saying this. Jeremy
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Bailey, the father figure, along with many of his colleagues at the University
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of New South Wales. I should mention that that's where it was developed here
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in Sydney. I'm sure they'd cringe at this analogue. But yes, polarizing
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sunglasses, we're all familiar with polarizing sunglasses and what they do. They take
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out the glare from a reflective surface. And that's because if light falls on
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a reflective surface, it becomes polarized. And what that means is that the
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vibrations of the Oh, here we go. These are my golf glasses,
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mister polarizing some other supered. Yes, that's good. Now for those of
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you listening to this who can't see, Andrew looks extremely glamorous with a pair
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of polarizing sunglasses glasses off. I wish you'd keep them on all the time,
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because yeah, it all fits with the hippie image. You have to
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say, I'm cool. But if you now, if you, if you
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kind of lift those off your head, Andrew keep looking through them, pull
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them forward so that you can turn them round through a right angle, if
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you see what I mean. Pull them forward and then twist them. No,
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not that way, the other axis. Yeah, that's it. So
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when you look through one of those, now you're actually doing the opposite in
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terms of polarized light. So what you do the other way, and you'll
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see light that scattered off a reflective surface. And if you then turn them
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back to the way they normally should be. That will disappear. That's amazing.
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Again, I never wear them sideways. No, you don't know,
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that's true. You don't wear them sideways. You look ridiculous if you did.
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Anyway, So what's happening there is that it's the vibe. The way
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light vibrate. The vibration, the electromagnetic vibration of a propagating light wave is
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kind of in all directions. But to put the polarizing sunglasses on, what
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you do is you just basically stream out most of those directions so that you've
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got these waves which are effectively representing a flat surface. I'm not really explaining
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it very well, but you're confining the vibrations into one plane. You can
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put it that way, and that's what a polarizing sunglass does. Now Hippie
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does that too, but in a much much more sophisticated way. And whereas
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you're you know, if you used your polarizing sunglasses to measure how much polarization
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there was in a beam of light, you might get it to one part
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in ten something like that, and accuracy of that kind. Hipnie can do
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that with an accuracy of one or two parts per million and so it is
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incredibly high precision, hence the name Hippie High Precision polarimetary Instrument. So it's
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got this unique ability and it hasn't been surpassed by anything else in the world
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to make these really superbly accurate measurements all in a box about the size of
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a loaf of bread, which means not only was it very cheap to make,
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it's also one of the smallest frontline instruments on the world in the world.
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In fact, Geremany Is Jeremy and his colleagues sent around a lovely photograph
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showing Hippie on the back end of the Gemini North telescope in Hawaii. The
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caption is a very small instrument on a very large telescope, and Hippie weighs
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fifteen kilograms, but in order to mount it on the back of the telescope
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they've got to add two tons of counterweight so it doesn't just spoil the balance
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of the telescope, because most astronomical instruments weigh several tons. So once it
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done, it's polarization is really useful for tracking magnetic fields in distant star systems
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distant galaxies because what happens is that magnetic fields tend to align the particles in
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clouds of dust. And we call it dust, but to anybody else it's
23:23
smoke in space. And those clouds of dust actually are essentially magnetic. They
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will align along the field lines of a magnetic field, and the dust also
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polarizes the light that passes through them. And so what you've got is an
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instrument that can measure very accurately the magnetism a very great distances. You know,
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galaxies at the other side of the universe can be have the magnetic fields
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measured, not because you've got a bar magnet to hold up or anything,
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but because you've got a polarimitter. And so that's the kind of science that
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it does. But it can also and I love this. Jeremy once told
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me this, and I've been blown away by ever since. You know that
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you probably don't know, but again, you should check this with your polarizing
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sunglasses. If you're on the golf course with those sunglasses on, Andrew,
24:17
you have a shower of rain and you see a rainbow, check the rainbow
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out through your sunglasses and do that same trick of bending the turning your sunglasses
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through ninety degrees and you'll see that the light from the rainbow is very very
24:30
highly polarized. Okay, some polarizing angles, it disappears altogether. So rainbows
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are things that polarize light very efficiently. And Hippie is capable because of this,
24:45
of detecting rainbows in the atmospheres of xts of planets. Work that one
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out. You can find rainbows on other worlds in orbit around other stars.
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What a brilliant thing to look for. I don't whether Jeremy's ever detected that.
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I think the last time I spoke to him we hadn't, But it's
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certainly one of the one of the possibilities for this kind of astronomy that you
25:07
might be able to detect rainbows on other world wonderful, incredible, what a
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great instrument. Happy birthday to Hippie as ten years ten years old. In
25:18
fact, we'll go Hippy Hippie hooray. Yes, I'm glad you said that,
25:23
because yeah, I wish I hadn't. Did There were several emails back
25:30
to Jeremy yesterday that said exactly that, Hippie. Certain my ideas, Yes
25:37
they are still in you. All right to our final story today, Fred,
25:42
and this one is the use of satellites to predict crop yields. Now,
25:48
this sounds like it doesn't sound beyond the realms of possibility. I'm sure
25:53
fifty years ago they would have said hogwash can't be done. Never happened,
25:57
But it is. It is. It's basically a framework that has been put
26:06
in place two essentially, and this is actually coming from the one of one
26:15
of the press releases about this, this idea and arises in Cornell University in
26:21
the United States. The idea is to produce this framework, and by that
26:27
I mean a kind of you know, a system framework that would let you
26:33
predict agricultural yields using minimal data. That's the trick here. You're using as
26:40
little information as you can from a spacecraft to be able to predict the agricultural
26:47
yield of what's on the ground. And the reason why that's important is that
26:53
if you've got you know, if if you're a farmer in Australia, you're
27:00
farmer in the United States, farmer in Europe, you would have resources that
27:04
would let you do that. On the ground, you be able to go
27:07
and check your crops and say, well, this is going to be a
27:11
bumper harvest, or this is going to be not a croppy harvest. If
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I can quote you from the beginning, it's going to be rubbish. So,
27:21
but if you imagine yourself in a developing nation with yields that might be
27:26
highly dependent on weather conditions and virtually no technology to be able to use to
27:36
work out whether your crop's going to fail or not, that is the whole
27:40
idea of that. And so the basic premise of this whole work is that
27:48
from space you can measure essentially the color of the crop. And by that
27:56
I mean not just whether it's green or you know, green or yellow,
28:00
but the subtleties of its spectrum. So you can look at the spectrum of
28:07
a paddock or a field of crops from space and analyze that, analyze the
28:14
colors in it. And what you can look for is something called chlorophyll fluorescence.
28:19
Now we're all kind of familiar with chlorophylla. It's what gives grass and
28:25
trees the green color, and basically it's the photo photosynthesis mechanism in crops.
28:33
It's what actually allows you know, like to turn the chemicals in those crops
28:38
into useful things that nourish it and also provide oxygen. So chlorophyll fluorescence means
28:47
that if the sun is shining on it, then you get you get chlorophyll
28:52
fluorescence being formed and it's a reddish color that's emitted by photosynthetic tissue, and
29:00
you can measure that from space and you can do it pretty accurately. So
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it means that you're you know, you're not really getting an instant measurement of
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what the yield will be, but it does tell you about the health of
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that crop on the ground, how well it's doing, and what sort of
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you know, what sort of yield you're likely to get at the end of
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the day. And so yes, it's very much aimed at, first of
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all, as I said, developing nations, but also the fact that a
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lot of traditional cropping methods are starting to break down because of climate change,
29:37
and so climate change again is very much an important part of this story.
29:42
Yes, one of the crops that's under major thread is coffee because they need
29:47
to grow coffee beans at high altitude and it's getting too warm, so it's
29:52
only a certain height they can go and it could jeopardize future coffee crops.
29:57
Satellite technologies anonymous with agriculture these days, and in my part of the world
30:03
where we have big, big, huge farms that grow wheat and canola and
30:10
sorghum and you name it. The harvesters are actually satellite controls. They're all
30:15
geo controlled from space. You can you sit in the cabin and watch movies
30:19
while it just does it all by itself. It's quite incredible, all satellite
30:26
control. It is remarkable and that comes from it's probably now six years ago.
30:30
I seem to remember. This was part of the twenty eighteen kind of
30:36
kickoff when the Space Agency was formed. Geosciences Australia got grunts to do exactly
30:42
what you've said, to use satellites to control planters, harvesters, all the
30:48
other agricultural machines. But it's more than just giving the driver arrest. It's
30:53
about high precision farming, so that you can go within a millimeter of the
30:57
edge of your paddock where you know the ground falls away. You know,
31:03
you can get so close to that you can have very very high efficiency in
31:07
the yields of the land. And that was what they were talking about at
31:11
that time, how it can improve the yield by high precision farming. I
31:15
imagine it would also be that they'd be able to calculate the best combination of
31:21
maneuvers to get the crop off with the lowest amount of fuel use things like
31:26
that. It's quite amazing. But yeah, crop, I can see this
31:32
being an incredible tool going forward for farming, being able to just take a
31:37
peek at your crop and going Okay, I'm selling the farm or I'm going
31:41
to buy another one. Yes, that's right, that's it, depending on
31:45
the yields. Yeah, fantastic. That story, if you're interested, is
31:49
on seed daily dot com and now we do have a lot of people in
31:55
agricultural areas that do listen to us, as seed daily dot com is where
31:57
you'll find that story. Fred. That brings us to the end. A
32:01
reminder, if you'd like to listen, like to visit our website. You
32:07
can do that at space nuts podcast dot com orspacenuts dot io. If you've
32:10
been following us on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe below and please leave reviews.
32:17
Reviews are very handy to spread the word and get more people on board
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with Space Nuts, so yes, please leave reviews on whatever platform you use.
32:27
We'd really appreciate that. Fred. As always, it's been a great
32:30
pleasure, and we will catch up with you again real soon. Probably could
32:35
be minutes, never know, well it could be. That's a bit unlikely,
32:39
but it could be all right, Thanks Fred, will see you soon.
32:45
Sounds great. Thanks Andrew Fred wat's an astronomer at large part of the
32:50
team here at Space Nuts. And Hugh in the studio who's been watching all
32:54
sorts of crop on his television lately and I'm not really going to get into
33:00
that too deeply scary stuff. And from me Andrew Ductley, thanks for your
33:04
company. I will join you again as Wilfred on the next episode of Space
33:08
Nuts. See you then, Bye bye, Spacenuts. You'll be listening to
33:13
the Space Nuts podcast available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your
33:21
favorite podcast player. You can also stream on demand at bites dot com.
33:25
This has been another quality podcast production from nights dot com.