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Transcript

Why Are You Attending? · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_03]: As long as I'm not for me, we're gonna have the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on everyone?
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the reformatory, the podcast for the local church, and by the local church, and we are your local churchman.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: My name is Josh, and I am joined by the long lost prodigal.
0:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
0:51
[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, the, the ever elucid.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The captain Jack Barry captain.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just gonna have to start calling you like Captain Captain Roadtrip Captain Vick Jack, it's been a few weeks spent a couple weeks since we've been with us.
1:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We have through or excuse me thrown the mics
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: up and done some radio.
1:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to have you back.
1:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Good to be back at full strength.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We pull the solo.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: We pulled one with Ed and man here episodes.
1:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate it.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate it.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I mean, you can't you can't you can't you can't replace what what we have here.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The dynamic duo.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's it's it's it's good to have you back paternity leave went well.
1:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope.
1:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we went to just this last trip, we went to Seabrik.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, which is the most busiest widest place I've ever been to in my life, I guess.
1:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no cops.
1:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There is zero cops in the car.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It was, it was security.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It was security, which was the most weirdest thing it felt like he broke.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in a back-law of an ABC comedy show.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It just looked really manufactured and really weird.
2:18
[SPEAKER_02]: and the prices were extremely high just some ridiculousness so yeah we went there it's nice for laxings pre chill beach town area there on the western side of Washington
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we did that.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I took a trip out to Allen'sburg, saw my dad with the fair, um, did not go to the rodeo, hung out at the fair with my son.
2:44
[SPEAKER_02]: My son couldn't write some rides.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I subsequently got punched in the face by him a couple times and had to discipline him because there's that, there's that, there's that.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's three major coming out coming out.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we did that hung out when around kind of locally areas.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: If I got yeah, it was good to kind of.
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Spend those three weeks that I didn't get on the front end with my baby daughter and my son Kind of connecting with them a little bit more, but yeah, it was nice.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, well, it's good to have you back.
3:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Good to have the podcast up Back up to full strength and before we get into all of our stuff, Jack.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We got it.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to remind the people.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We got something pretty fun coming up here folks in just a couple weeks.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We have
3:39
[SPEAKER_01]: the Pactum Conference on Covenant Theology, and I wish I could put like a reformatory meetup, like over this screen, but I would be covering up the handsome faces of all the speakers here.
3:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jack, when I say we, I mean, you and I are gonna be joining the Pactum Podcast at the Pactum Conference
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously of this year come up in just a couple weeks.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So really looking forward to this conference looking forward to spending time hopefully with as many reformatory listeners as we can get there.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think obviously it's going to be filled with primarily packed em listeners, but you know we do have some overlap.
4:29
[SPEAKER_01]: in our audiences, Jack, and I'm looking forward to seeing and interacting with a whole bunch of whole bunch of common, common-minded people.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
4:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jack and I are going to be there for the conference, and we're looking forward to hanging out with all of you guys.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anyone that can make it.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So, packed him conference, covenant theology coming up in just a couple weeks.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure to be there, Jack.
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to primarily the after parties, right?
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Hangin' out with folks, getting together, smoking some cigars, and just having a great time.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: with some with some with some mutuals.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's gonna be a good time man.
5:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it'll be fun.
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I already know Trevor, who is actually in Ohio, who is on X.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: He is a fellow suffer of the Cleveland Browns variety with me.
5:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, him and I are basically going to talk about how much our team sucks this year.
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a kid show.
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to say that,
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you guys are already out of guard contention for the playoffs, right?
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I've already missed the playoffs, the meme of like the Huskab boys missing the playoffs over your times.
5:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Browns are complete.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, in 17.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gone.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
5:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it'll be good to have some people there that you can come is right with my friend.
5:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
5:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: make sure to get to the packed conference everybody's gonna be a great time we're gonna have an awesome an awesome time together and hopefully get some reformatory listeners and hey you know link in the link in the description of this episode uh get yourself some reformatory swag we got the 1517 we got uh we got the we got the um the
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: the reject the papacy shirts.
6:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I'm tattooed as coconuts.
6:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That shirt is breaking nuts.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my favorite shirt, it's... That shirt is on brand for us as being... Oh, it's fantastic.
6:32
[SPEAKER_02]: As Mike would say, edgy, we're edgy.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
6:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
6:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But like edgy, edgy in the best way possible.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So all you got to do is head on over to Amazon and you can get, you can click on the link in the description.
6:47
[SPEAKER_01]: and get yourself some of these shirts.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, Jack, why don't we just pull them up real quick?
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We got, look, you've been gone for three weeks.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to do all the business.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We're checking out the 15, 17 first, check this out.
6:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Hoodies $35 and t-shirts, $15 and 17 cents in honor for Reformation.
7:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, all that.
7:05
[SPEAKER_01]: This, you made it into the Pentagon.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, that's the only thing that got me it's not the pentagon.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about it's it's it's it's the five points Why do three five it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It is also back to that one old school righteous red shirt.
7:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember it's like gosh, I'm trying to remember what it was, but it was like basically the the pope, but like a skeleton in the pope's costume or something like that.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pretty much.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I want I want to see reformatory.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see people at the Pactum Conference in reject the papacy t-shirts.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I need this.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I need this.
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us have it.
7:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Make it happen.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it's going to be a good time really looking forward to being with everybody at the Paccom conference.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Make sure to go because it's going to be a good time hanging out with all you guys.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Jack, let's get down to business before we talk about our topic for today.
8:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time for everyone's favorite segment.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't forget to eat your instant grams.
8:18
[SPEAKER_05]: And all of the time you've all been waiting for, though a homiday broadcast presents don't forget to eat your instant grams.
8:25
[SPEAKER_05]: With your host, Josh Loftus, on Jack Mary.
8:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And remember kids, it's not heresy if you believe it hard enough.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, don't forget to eat your Instagrams.
8:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember kids, not heresy, if you believe it hard enough, that is how it works these days.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why we reject the papacy, ladies and gentlemen.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, I got just a couple of funny ones for you today.
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: As our listeners know, we are Jack and I have been on our weight loss journeys this year, lots of progress.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Personally, I'm down 70 pounds as of this week, which I'm pretty stoked about.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Very nice.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Going for another 30 by the end of the year.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jack, I wish I wish my friend that weight loss was as easy as this.
9:11
[SPEAKER_04]: What's this so much to Mac?
9:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
9:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I recommend you go.
9:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Go.
9:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Watch, watch, just watch, just watch, the music we're watching, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, so many shots!
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so audio, audio only listeners, it's a, it's a, it is a health and wealth preacher pointing to this man's wall, uh, uh, stomach that's protruding kind of through his shirt and he, you know, he does his magic and the stomach goes in.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So hey, you could, you know, watch calories, exercise, do all the things that you need to
10:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Find yourself a yeah guys right find yourself find yourself this guy and he'll just blow on your stomach and And you'll lose weight.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be fantastic.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all right Jack last one we got for you my man Look we we Baptist got it hard.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just gonna say it.
10:40
[SPEAKER_01]: We it's a tough life It's it's it's a tough life being a Baptist okay because we're getting
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: we're getting shots left and right.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we're getting shots from our Presbyes, but now we're getting shots from getting shots from like
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: like still like way back in the early 2000s.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Check this out.
11:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I do see that little box right there sir.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that's going to be hard for you to read because it's small.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It says no matches found for Baptist Church.
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I can type in.
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I can type in churches of Christ and look there.
11:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Churches of Christ is right there.
11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I just I did the same thing for both.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I typed in Baptist churches and I typed in churches of Christ.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Churches of Christ came up.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Baptist churches didn't come up anywhere in the box.
11:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, they got us.
11:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They got us.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sorry.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you not hear of John the Baptist?
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: What Baptist?
11:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, no.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, they got us.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm convinced.
11:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm convinced.
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh, dude.
11:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That database is probably right when Google came out.
11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that was awesome.
11:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, I was watching a documentary about like, when Yahoo was coming out, like it's a plain nice Yahoo.
11:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just nuts.
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a nuts time.
12:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Crazy time through the 90s.
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: A hundred percent.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to be there.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You really did.
12:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You really did have to be there.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a time in and of itself.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack, my man.
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Good to have you back.
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get into our topic this morning or afternoon.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever we're recording this, I don't know.
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm dealing with a head cold.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You threw a topic at me yesterday.
12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it would be a really good one.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to have you prime the pump for us, man.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And what are we talking about today?
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we, uh, so this, this was said, this is why I love my local church.
12:32
[SPEAKER_02]: This is why I really don't like watch YouTube pastors to be quite honest, because YouTube pastors would not be able to drop as many truth bombs and sermons as your local church pastor should.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So one of my pastors, we're going through a series called DNA series.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically we do this right before the fall.
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: we do three sermons on our values which is gospel community mission and basically if you were to this is what one of my pastors said, if you were to take a needle and just pin, you know, one of our members and what would they build out?
13:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's obviously metaphorically, like don't do that.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So, before after he fixed them in the face to get rid of cancer, the first, we went over gospel our first value as a church, and we were kind of, he was going through a sermon in 1 Corinthians, famous, we're Paul talks about, you know, I am, I'm thankful I only baptized, chius, and Christmas, everybody else is in these factions, stuff like that.
13:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were talking about the importance of the gospel, right?
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And he dropped this bomb and he said, you know, what, he goes, why do you, what do you come to church?
14:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are you at my church as a name of some Christian fellowship?
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are you here?
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are you, member?
14:07
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's like, I really want to know and I really want you to explore this idea because why you come to church?
14:15
[SPEAKER_02]: is why you eventually will leave it church.
14:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And that really stuck with me because it's so true.
14:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why I came to the church I'm at is primarily because of the gospel.
14:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's primarily his thrust of the sermon, right?
14:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You should go to a church because of the peer as a lot of reformed confessions will say, the mark of a true church is the peer proclamation of the gospel.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: If that is not there, you should probably not be there.
14:46
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's so true across the board like I know people who have gone to churches because of the aesthetics because of the building and they leave because we're not in that particular building anymore.
14:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I know people who go because of they found a community and then when that community eventually leaves the church because of some stuff.
15:09
[SPEAKER_02]: they leave to go where they can find better community and better flourishing within that community.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I kind of wanted to unpack why it is that we go to our local churches.
15:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, obviously, we can talk about the obvious reasons, like I said from the World of Form Confessions, but another thing too is like, why,
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: why that's important and why you going to why you're at a member at your local church should not be for superficial reasons.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:42
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think it's a great topic.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think especially for today too because I think your pastor very rightly and correctly keys in on
15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: an issue that I think just just just local churches face in general, but definitely local churches here in the P&W face is that everyone has what they are looking for right everyone has the things that they want to you know feel fulfillment to feel accepted to feel cared for
16:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and some of those things in and of themselves might not be bad, but what we do see very often.
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: is that individuals come into the local church with this very individualistic mindset.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And with this expectation that the church is supposed to cater to their needs, to their wants and to their preferences.
16:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And as, you know, so far as the church does that to, you know, that individuals, you know, whatever their, their,
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: their barometer is for satisfaction, they'll stay, right?
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And they'll continue to gather.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But when things change as often happens, either with that individual, because again, if your preferences are your standard, your preferences are on a change, so your standards change, right?
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how it works.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Or the church changes focus.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the church goes through a split.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the church changes, hey, hey, we've been convicted as a congregation that we've been doing things kind of incorrectly.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to, we want to, we want to separate reformanda, right?
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Move closer to what we believe scripture calls
17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you have these individuals who aren't happy with the direction that the church is going because it's no longer catering to their preferences, right?
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're 100% correct.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to make sure that the reason we are attending the local church, the reason we are gathering.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people create an issue when they make the main reasons for why they are gathering in the local church, the things that they get out of it.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I want to be very careful and I want to caveat that in that.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and say that, you know, I believe one of or I'll even say many of the reasons that you should attend a local church is because of what it does for you.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know, it countless times on the podcast, all of the ways that the local church is good for us, the things that it provides for us, right?
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That community, that encouragement, that accountability, right?
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: All of those things and all of those things are good, good and right, okay?
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But if your understanding of those things is the foundation and the and the reason in which you attend the local church, I think you're going to have a problem with discontentment.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: because when your preference has changed or when you're no longer in a season where you're needing the amount of care that you did, when those reasons tend to, you know, tend to maybe, maybe lessen in your life, um, I think then we start running into, you know, like, well, why am I, why am I still here, right?
19:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I would propose, Jack, is that the
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: that we should be going to a local church, attending a local church is because God tells us to do it, because God is all powerful, and He's all wise, and He knows what we need.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It is part, I put up a tweet the other day, just encouraging people to go to church.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I said something to the effect of
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, a, a current, a currently isolated Christian will be a future compromise Christian.
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I said, you can't neglect the local church.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's part, it's part of the design, right?
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then somebody commented and I forget who it was.
20:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, but he said, I would, I would, I would amend that and say that it is the design.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's exactly right.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like the amendment that he made because it's very true.
20:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The local church, it is the design.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the design that God created.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It isn't, it isn't, you know, plan B if you will, right?
20:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to view the local church and our gathering in the local church.
20:47
[SPEAKER_01]: as first and foremost obedience to what God has called us to do.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that doesn't mean that that's the only thing.
20:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not just doing it out of out of compulsion.
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the other things that the local church brings into our lives is still very true, yes, and amen.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But we have to understand that
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: the call to go to the local church is not a call simply to your preferences or a call to something that that that provides you with with with with good feelings or good vibes or or a good community, right?
21:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It again, like community is good, community is great.
21:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason that we go to the local church, the reason that we gather, the foundation of that must be because we know that is what our Heavenly Father has commanded us
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So we will seek to love his people.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That has to be the concrete that this is, you know, this scaffolding is built on, right?
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once you get above that, right, Jack, which is, I think, uh, and then it kind of hops into the territory, I think, where your pastor is talking.
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Once we hop above that next level, right, that's where you can start to have the conversations.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: When when when you are making
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: What are the reasons and what are the things that we should be looking for, right?
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We all agree, all right, God commanded it.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be obedient.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to join and gather with God's people because he says that we should now what should I look for.
22:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So as I was doing this, I don't think Josh was aware that I was going to do this, but this is where our confession of faith helps.
22:37
[SPEAKER_02]: the 1689.
22:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you go to paragraph 26, or I'm sorry, not paragraph 26.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I saying?
22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Chapter 26.
22:47
[SPEAKER_02]: She's in crackers, man.
22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Of the church in paragraph two,
22:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the core markers of like a true church, so to say, are the, is the profession of visible saints, right?
23:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have that, you also have in paragraphs, five and six, is the ministry of the word.
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We would say that that's very paramount, obviously as well too, maybe even more than just the profession of visible saints.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then paragraph 12 and 14 is the exercise of discipline and handling of sin.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the only thing the only paragraph I skipped over is susceptibility to error as well too.
23:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically what's talking about there and that paragraph is just knowing that even the
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: are subject to a mixture of air, but a true church.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where you set it perfectly.
23:53
[SPEAKER_02]: A true church holds fast to Christ as a supreme lead and head rather than
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: like basically like shifting that off or doing what our guy on the instant Graham said like oh you're not in the Bible so you don't really count.
24:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not realtor.
24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, there's so it goes so basically the 69 second London Baptist Confession of faith really like expands upon the Belgian confession where the Belgian confession originally said the marks of a true church or the
24:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like the unchanged preaching of the gospel.
24:36
[SPEAKER_02]: the ordinances or sacraments and then church discipline, I think our confession expands upon that a little bit more to basically say, hey, like, yeah, ministry of the word right administration of ordinances, but also there's needs to be like a profession of faith in Jesus with people there and also the handling of sin, which the Belgium confession does, like the disciplining of that,
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you guys handle certain errors that are out there?
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that look like?
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And how do you, how are you doctorally handling things?
25:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what's kind of getting to it that, but yeah.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think when we have this mentality, I think it does help us to keep, you know, as Alistair Biggs says, the main things, the plain things and the plain things, the main things, right?
25:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Because when we're looking at our local church and we're
25:33
[SPEAKER_01]: were, you know, wanting to be committed to it, wanting to be, you know, folks that are committed to its community, committed to its purpose, serving it.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, if that commitment is built on something other than what we have been talking about, you're going to struggle.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: with wanting to go elsewhere.
25:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You're wanting to struggle with being discontent, right?
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's the ways too because one thing that my pastor brought up to was just like, you know, I was in this seminar where we were talking about, you know, churches in the, if you're going to survive as a church in the Pacific Northwest, you need to do four things and I can remember only three of them one was like, you need to be pro life and you need to be pro family, you need to be pro something and then the last one which is kind of weird is like you need to be pro social justice.
26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And my pastor kind of just kind of goes.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Where's the gospel like where's the gospel in all this like you just said a lot of buzzwords for like secret sensitism yeah but like Paul says in that text and for like I brought first and foremost to you what Christ crucified yep if that's not the heartbeat of your local church if Jesus of his atoning work both in his life death and resurrection are not a part of that
27:06
[SPEAKER_02]: them like all you are is just like a social club who does social things and rallies around like what we just talked about you rally around being pro life or you rally around being pro family or you rally around changing certain laws to appease to you know hopefully maybe the foreshing of you know you're local community but still like it's like yeah if you don't have the heartbeat of the gospel and of the person in work of Jesus like
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: you don't have anything right right yeah i mean and you know you'll be successful in a worldly sense right yeah whatever that seminar is you know you know if you want to be successful as a church okay well i mean that that tells me what your definition of success is then right because sure yeah i mean you will have a
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: you will have a type of success if you do those things, but success in whose eyes, success by whose standards, right?
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The world's yours or what scripture would consider a good and successful biblical church, right?
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as we are looking at our local churches, right?
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to evaluate, you know, what, what is the reason that I am here?
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the reason that I'm serving?
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the reason that I'm wanting to continually invest, right?
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And again,
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a bad thing to see all the ways that the local church, you know, that the Lord is using the local church to benefit you.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, of course those, those are good and those are right.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, like Jack has been saying, like our confession is saying,
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: am I going to this church simply because I like the music or am I going to this church simply because I and you know this is where a lot of my friends go or I like the style of preaching you know he's he's a good communicator you know I like the activities that they have throughout the month I like all the ways that they outreach to the community right again none of those are bad
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: then your foundation for why you are at that local church is going to be ever shifting because those things can change on a drop of a hat.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That pastor could retire and you get someone in there that's maybe not as quite dynamic a preacher.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe your church where doesn't preach the gospel.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got even bigger problems, right?
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, it's keeping the main things, the plain things, the plain things, the main things.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to join this local church and be committed to this body.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: First and foremost, because I know that's what God wants me to do after that is the gospel there.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a commitment to right and good doctrine?
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Are the sacraments rightly observed?
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: right is their church discipline that's there is their biblical eldership that's there right so like these are all pretty you know top tier reasons why we should be joining a church all of the aesthetics and the music and the preaching styles and things like that like it's not that those aren't important it's not that that that you don't that you can't take those into consideration but we have to make sure that
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: those are placed on the list accordingly of the reasons why you are choosing to join this church or to stay at this church or to leave this church.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: What if this church has, you know, checks all of those boxes, they have a plurality of elders, they observe the sacraments rightly, they preach the gospel.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't like the music.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, the musicians aren't that talented and it's kind of dergy and people don't sing very well.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I don't, I don't feel the spirit moving like I want to on a Sunday morning.
31:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, find something else or I was like, you know, this church just doesn't really have anything for me to do throughout the month.
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I mean, I appreciate the sermons, but there's really, they don't really have any other extra programs or things like that for me to get involved with.
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to get plugged into this church because the church isn't providing me any way to do it.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna go find another place.
31:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This train goes both ways, man.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what your pastor's talking about, is because now all of the things that attracted you to that church,
31:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's your standard, that's shifting sand, my friend, right?
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even just, or even like you, I think the hardest thing that I went through when we had to leave my last church.
32:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I think was the fact that they did not hold accountable our leaders the same way they did as the members.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a double standard.
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's where, you know, one of my pastors said, believe me, if I am not within the standards of the biblical elder, feel free to start enacting discipline on me.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And that takes, that takes some guts to say that, because a lot of people don't say that.
32:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of people on YouTube will never say that because they want, they want to sustain themselves.
32:44
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to be there in the spotlight and be the person of interest versus
32:51
[SPEAKER_02]: What if I am not the person of interest?
32:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think you're just your mindset has to change as well too.
32:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and our culture here in the United States week one honest because we are so kind of obsessed with
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: fame and celebrity and optics and stuff like that that I think that you kind of have to be counter cultural in that sense and absolutely you know right now I think a lot of people think that the marks of the true church are either you're you're you're not woke or you're not this my pastor is kind of punching both sides because he goes you know a lot of people would
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: marks of a true church is hopefully you're not anti-Semitic and you're not Nazi or you're not, you know, woke or you're not liberal but just like guys like that's not what scripture is telling us.
33:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Scripture is telling us that the mark of a true church is the fact that there is the gospel in the middle of it and that gospel, you know, by first Corinthians like Paul is saying like
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: that Jesus was the atoning work for man's sin, that we are made in God's image, so that God came down to us in the flesh, in His Son Jesus Christ, and redeemed us to establish that relational dynamic again with His creation.
34:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And so
34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: If you guys don't have that, at the heartbeat of your local church, it is going to be a tough road to toll.
34:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, good stuff, man.
34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I say we say we get out of here and go record some Patreon episodes for our folks because it's been a couple weeks, man.
34:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You owe them you owe the patrons.
34:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you all a lot.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You owe the patrons.
34:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You can take a pound of flesh of me.
34:48
[SPEAKER_02]: How to flesh.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: There's grace in the gospel.
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no grace at the reformatory podcast.
34:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, why don't you get us out of your mind.
34:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, if you appreciate Josh, nice.
35:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Bantering semantics over the facts that we want you to join true churches.
35:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's based upon not only the scriptures, but also the reform confessions YouTube involves a world that war and it would be like that kind of stuff and if you want to join a world that's rich or you more invested in a world that's rich and know that your church
35:27
[SPEAKER_02]: your local church has in it's the heartbeat of the gospel and you want to make that essential part of your life and continue doing so.
35:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You can follow us on here on the repository.
35:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Tumelessly we'll bring up episode ideas to revolve around this, to revolve around other things about the local church.
35:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's affecting the local church in the life of your church.
35:49
[SPEAKER_02]: You can follow us further from more
35:53
[SPEAKER_02]: different antics that Josh is doing on social media while I was gone.
35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he went viral about three or four different times Josh.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And Josh has always been they're finna dragged me.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: They're finna to drag me jack and I'm like, well, you know, sometimes doing it to yourself.
36:11
[SPEAKER_02]: The shoe has to fit.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You can talk about that.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about that over behind the paywall.
36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you want to join in on the mob over there on the sociables, maybe join us as well to their interact with us on those sites, give us a direct message, episode ideas, comments, questions, and some concerns about us on the Facebook, meta, if you will, the Instagram, like you said, goes well with chocolate, marshmallows, sprinkle with her scams,
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: or the sociable familiar as Twitter X, with you well.
36:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We are all at the tag app, perform a joy pod, a shot sheet, and tell all the lovely people how they like, that's supposed to further in our end up.
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right, well, if you want to watch this episode as well as listen to it, have them over to YouTube, like, comment, subscribe, hit the little bell for notifications as the kids say.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It does make games to Instagram, so I'm going to find them and see what's going on versus just listening.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You can like this podcast review, this podcast on Apple and Spotify.
37:10
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37:12
[SPEAKER_01]: All those reviews help give it out to more like-minded people.
37:15
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37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have a Patreon.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to join that, it's only $5 a month.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It stays $5 a month.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's pretty cool.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to throw exclusive content up there.
37:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where we're going to go right now.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If you choose to do that, are pledged to you.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it your name?
37:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Chubby Halloween.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello through the halls of the podcast.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That is our pledge to you, everyone.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Go register for the Pactum Conference.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see you guys there.
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We want it.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to infiltrate the Pactum Conference with reformatory listeners.
37:49
[SPEAKER_01]: There are dozens of us.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't, doesn't, doesn't, don't, don't, don't, don't.
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a great time really looking forward to it.
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We thank you all for listening, and we will catch you on the next step of the reformatory.