Latest / APD Pod Squad / Season 2, Episode 23; Capt Joe Silberman, Technology Supervisor Jimmy Wingo, Sgt Nathan Dietiker, and Public Safety Analyst A. Coffman

Transcript

Season 2, Episode 23; Capt Joe Silberman, Technology Supervisor Jimmy Wingo, Sgt Nathan Dietiker, and Public Safety Analyst A. Coffman · APD Pod Squad

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fifth is the APD pod squad.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Rick Wright, and in this episode, The Anatomy of an Investigation, Captain Joe Silberman with the Criminal Investigations Division will walk us through the steps and also discuss APD homicide clearance rates versus the national average.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Also, three members of the Real-Time Intelligence Center, technology supervisor Jimmy Wingo, Sergeant Nathan Diediker, and public safety analyst Elena Kaufman.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Commonly referred to as the RTIC, this center isn't fully active just yet.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: But we'll find out when it will be.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly is it, though?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: What are its capabilities, functions, and limitations?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: The internet is a dangerous place full of confusion, accusations, and misinformation.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So in this roundtable discussion, we'll do our best to address all these questions and more.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's all coming up on season two, episode 23 of the APD Pod Squad.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to start off this episode of the APD Pod Squad with a listener email.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we always give that information at the end, right?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can email APD Podcastfeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We also give you the phone number that you can leave a voicemail, you got a question or suggestion, and that is 828-250-8800.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's the phone number to call.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's another way to reach us, though, and that is through our podcast distributor, Buzz Sprout.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we put that link on our Facebook page.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes maybe you have seen it, but through that, you can also send us an email, and somebody has, from Waynesville, North Carolina, our first one.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it reads, I very much appreciate the segment on driving safety, and it's something that every driver in the area needs to listen to.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've lived in Asheville for over 20 years, and it's just crazy how increasingly dangerous it is out there on the road.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: A few months ago, I was rear-ended very badly by someone all because they chose not to pay attention.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: It would be nice to have more law enforcement monitoring more roads and highways in the area and to see more dangerous, distracted, and careless drivers be held accountable.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because every day I see drivers get away with careless driving.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I hope to see continued raised awareness on this issue in the future.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for emailing us from Waynesville, North Carolina.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me now, Captain Joe Silberman, who heads our criminal investigations division.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining me, Captain.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me, Rick.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a busy time for you and your team.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have you considered the advice of social media on how to solve all these crimes?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because they seem to have all the answers.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: We see a lot of that with all of these, especially when a charge has been delayed for any amount of time.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I will say we still go through it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: And honestly, if somebody spat out a good idea that we hadn't done, we would we would go do it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Do you occasionally get a suggestion, maybe it's somebody that shouldn't say what they say, that they know something that happened and they just kind of shout it out on the Facebook and you're like, hey, that's interesting.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's rare, but any investigation that's a whodunit.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: Or even when we know who did it, but then we have the burden of actually proving it, you know, getting probable cause to charge, and moreover, building a case.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: We're looking for anything, and it's a game of long odds, and that's what an investigation is from the front to the back.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I think that's the biggest thing that maybe people don't realize, because everyone's been begging for information from the most recent uh shooting that happened in Asheville with the two dead, seven injured, is like, why don't you tell us more?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the big thing everyone's wondering, and now you know the answer.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know the answer.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell It's a nuanced answer.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: There are a few different reasons.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, you can't poison a jury pool because we have to think about that even on the front end when we're still very far away from a charge.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: But the big thing, too, is educating the public educates your doer.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: And evidence that you're hoping to get could go away.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: That really would put our bad guy one step ahead if we did something like that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's not hard to do, but I will say, you know, there is the temptation to do so because of one, of public outcry, but two, just for sheer pride, just I want to say I love my team.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_04: They're an absolutely outstanding group of people, everybody in our division.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I really want to talk up, like, oh, you have no idea.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like they uncovered this and they use some lateral thinking to like uh figure out this or get a piece of evidence that we wouldn't have normally got, or you know, we have a professional partnership that's swooped in with some like bizarre process we've never heard of, and they were able to give us this piece or, you know, a related investigation two counties over, like uncovered this and they reached out.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: We really want to showcase those things.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: And and we can't.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: There's a bottleneck information that goes through, and it's usually me before it hits the media or before it hits our public information folks.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I consult with the investigators.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: What will this do if we release this?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: Or what'll what are we hoping to get, especially releasing information before a charge?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: After a charge, it becomes pretty standard on what we could give and what we can't give.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: But before a charge, we need to be able to get something that helps our investigation.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: And you really consider like, you know, you weigh public safety, obviously, that's paramount.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: But you also say, like, will this damage the case versus what it might give us?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell It's got to be tough sometimes to like not brag on your people.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell It's difficult all the time not to brag on my people.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you know things and you've shared things with me, and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's some great detective work.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: How did you find that out?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, well, this happened and then this happened, and then this led to this.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's amazing, but you can't tell anybody.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like I said, it's a game of long odds, and a lot of the failures pave the way to what will eventually be the thing that leads you to success.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So we're going to talk about today.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: What I wanted to have you in here was essentially the anatomy of an investigation.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about beginning to end what happens from the committing of the crime to hopefully the end where the person is arrested, you have a suspect.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: But before we do that, since we are talking about your team and you leading that team, let's talk about some numbers really quick.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: When people might mention online how the Asheville Police Department is clueless, they don't solve any of these, they don't do anything right.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's just the place we are in this world.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's an expert and everyone thinks that nobody else knows anything, right?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I looked back at the last 10 years of homicides in Asheville.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to the year 2016, okay?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So last 10 years of homicides, your clearance rate on homicides is 75.58 percent.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you're rounding up, it's 76 percent.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: But let's just say 75, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And for people that don't realize, like, oh geez, they're they're only solving three out of four, the national average according to the FBI in 2024 is go ahead and take a stab at it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's probably 50, 60 percent.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: 61 percent.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: You so you're 14 to 15 percentage points higher, which is nothing to sneeze at than the national average.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, some people would say that's good.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_04: I sort of would like us to be at 100 percent.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: And we've had years where we've hit 100 percent.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then there are some where they're either who done it or we know who did it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: And there's just there's not enough, and we've thrown everything at the wall trying to get something to stick.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: And we've had less homicides this year in previous years, but it's not slower because we've got you said we're at 75 and change.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 758.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: It is harder for me to come up with a good list of names for here are big wins, but right off the top of my head, I could tell you like my top five, I like really feel we're close to some kind of resolution.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: We just need a little bit more.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: And they're all heartbreaking.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I could tell you their names, I could tell you their parents' names, or the person we we really feel accountable to given justice to.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I think about most of the time.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell, I know it weighs heavily on you.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone that doesn't get solved and there does no resolution to it.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the only point in bringing up those numbers, I guess, is just a little bit of a counter to people that think you're not effective at what you guys are doing, which is why we're here today to talk about investigations.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's do that right now.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: The anatomy of an investigation.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say crime happens, you're notified, somebody is dead.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Go.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: For you know, a homicide or a suspicious death, patrol obviously will get there first and they start trying to make sense of some kind of crime scene.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Let's say it happens late at night, I've got to make notifications.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it begins trickling up through the watch commander and they'll call our on-call, and then our on-call detective supervisor will start making broader notifications.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'll almost always get a call, especially if there's a homicide.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'll respond.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: I normally would respond if I'm in town.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll have one or both of my lieutenants will start to head that way, and we'll have at least one sergeant, but usually we'll tag more in, or especially if it's gonna be a drawn out, if it's gonna be not hours but days.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it it usually might be that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_04: Additional notification would be our forensic services supervisor, and we'll have um Norman and uh Forensic Technician respond.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so we'll at least probably have two on the scene, sometimes even more.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: And our initial detectives will get there and we'll start making uh early decisions on is our crime scene big enough?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: Usually we probably want to expand it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: And then we start having to uh triage our and it's a study of economics, and the currency that we deal in is staff hours and how much do you have to spend?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you need to be really smart on spending it.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: You're trying to get evidence that reveals what happened, but you're also trying to preserve evidence too, and those could be two different things.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so you think about expanding the crime scene.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: Are witnesses gonna walk away?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, have we identified all the witnesses?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: What would be good to lock down?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: Are there additional crime scenes we don't know about?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: And then you start casting a broader and broader net.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: But there are fundamentals to the investigative process that have remained unchanged for a century.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: That being said, they're fundamentals.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: The nuts and bolts of them have changed a little across the years.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: What used to be knocking on doors and seag who saw what uh has changed a little bit to knocking on doors and seag.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, do you have like a doorbell camera going into businesses and seeing what their surveillance system is like?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that's actually a huge challenge.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh most surveillance systems and businesses are dated.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: It is not uncommon for staff not to know how to use them.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: So you've sort of got to have somebody able to like sit there and learn how to use it very fast.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: If a detective could talk their way and hey, like if you've never used it, your manager is here and he inherited this thing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: Could we fiddle with it together and see if we could get somewhere?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: And if it starts giving a headache, sometimes that's a call back to the detective supervisor and we'll tag in one of our computer crimes detectives if they're available.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: But like I said, you're choosing how you spend those staff hours.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want your computer crimes detective figuring out the surveillance system?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: Is it going to give you a good lead?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Or are you trying to preserve footage before it automatically deletes, or do you want him in the computer crimes office trying to crack into a phone that might have been left at the scene?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a decision that you're going to have to make based on everything.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now some of these are easier than others, though, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, every every single incident is different.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, So that's why there's no there's no easy playbook for this.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_04: There's usually a flood of information up front to sort through, and you really want to preserve what you can, and you choose what you think are your best options based on what you have.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: So one thing that's a go-to for me is I always try and get some of our 911 calls started, because that could be a treasure trove of information.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Our dispatchers, if there's like a horrendous crime, especially one with a number of witnesses, could be flooded by calls.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: And they're going to get what they need to get to start patrol on the way.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: But there could be a little tidbit buried in there that is incredibly relevant to a piece of fleeting evidence or a critical piece of information.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so I try and get that buttoned up as soon as I can and on the way.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: And then we try and find somebody to start listening to them.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Like somebody mentions a name or somebody mentions something minor that they don't even realize they said.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: We have had cases where we heard it in the background.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: We've had cases where the victim was one of the callers.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: And incredibly relevant to the case.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so you you always try and get that ball rolling.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: There is also we have a crime intelligence center, and so we start looking for broader cameras.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: We know a direction of travel.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Vehicles are used in everything and have been for, again, 100 years.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: So they become really unique, and how we track them is really unique.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: So not only is a tag relevant, but damage to the vehicle has been relevant.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: That was uh two years ago, there was a really specific kind of damage to a minivan that we were able to identify and then we were able to track.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: And think about that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a fingerprint, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: If you have unique damage to a car, it's not only, hey, he had the same model car, but he had the same model car, and the damage is precisely like it was on two different surveillance videos miles apart.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: He had a big dent in the rear quarter panel and a scratch of a different color paint, or something.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: We know that car was involved in the crime, and two miles away the same night, he got out of a car just like that over here.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we're able to like have that snapshot.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Very relevant piece of piece of evidence.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so we have a great team of people in our intelligence center that are able to like identify vehicle types and start finding it and where it might have gone.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Ultimately, don't all of these investigations rely on people to tell you things?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's paramount.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's how these have always been solved, is people do have to provide a certain level of information.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Eyewitness testimony is only so good.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: We really want, I think the public really has a desire for some level of forensic evidence.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's what a jury member is looking for, is like some kind of hard science.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's harder to assail by a defense.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: But yes, the critical pieces of information come from witnesses and the public and people who know things.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: We we have a number of good mediums to speak with the public.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Our tip line is usually a valuable source of information.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: On a lot of these, we'll be told the answer.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: We'll be told the who did it within an hour or two.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then we have to draw the map to get there and build probable cause.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Now, in a related way, some of these ones that have not been, let's just say, solved for lack of a better name, is because people won't talk.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell And there are reasons for that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Understandable reasons for that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Fearing for their safety.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus There's a fear for their safety.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: There's uh uh a fear for I'm not okay with what happened, but I was and I didn't know it was going to happen, but I was committing crimes too.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: There are a host of different reasons.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes we're able to overcome those, and sometimes we're not.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So what happens, let's say we get to a point where there's you're just at a stalemate.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you just can't go any further without this one piece.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell What do you have at your disposal possibly?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Ross Powell So one thing we do, and we don't wait to get there.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: One thing we do on the front end after we sort of get an idea of what happened is we start looking at like, well, what partnerships could we call on?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so in our most recent, we've had a number of professional partners in law enforcement that we've tapped for different things.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: And a number of them have reached out saying, like, hey, what can we do to help by the way?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: Did you know we could do this?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we've been generous giving help in the past, and we're definitely grateful getting it, especially for something like this.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So is this people like the uh the SBI and the SBI, the ETF, the FBI.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: Or even local agencies.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, hey, what can we do to tag in?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: And hey, we have this little job, or like, hey, we got this bigger thing.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: We need to be at the front of this list for this.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a great community of support out there.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So you've developed all the evidence that you think you need, then what?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you go to the district attorney?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Once we start getting an idea and we start to think we're close, uh we'll tag in the district attorney's office and start saying, like, hey, could we set up a meeting and brief you on what happened?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_04: Even before that, though, there are informal briefings that happen.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: We'll speak to them within the first eight to twelve hours and just say, like, hey, FYI, this is what's going on, here's where we're at.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_04: We're not ready yet, or maybe we're starting to get close to being ready, and they'll pick up the phone anytime.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like some of these things happen like 10 at night, and so you don't get to call the district attorney until 2 or 3 a.m.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: They always pick up the phone, and sometimes they're like, ah, I really need to see, like, we really need to make this a face-to-face.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it's murder, so it doesn't wait.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: They come out.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are they able to offer you any advice like, hey, listen, that's good, but I need this one more thing?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: All the time.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_04: All the time they're like, we need to straighten this up.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: This would be weak if we use this in a courtroom, so we need like more evidence to surround it and support these assertions.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_04: And here are some places you might go to get it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So then you're all on the same page, you're gonna charge.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then how's the coordination to let's say the person's local to then going and get this person?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell We have teams of people that could do that.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_04: We also consider like, do we need to alert the public?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: Is there a danger?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: It like so as we move forward with each step, we're always like, is there a threat to the public?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_04: Is there the need to like communicate?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: Will that put people in jeopardy, even more so, or will it will it make people safer?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: But we have professional partnerships we call on that too.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: Marshalls and the SBI being two big ones.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the FBI has helped us track people around the country, too.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Captain Joe Silberman with the Criminal Investigations Division with me now as we're talking about the anatomy of an investigation.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember your first investigation?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: My first homicide?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: Most definitely.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Which one was that?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: Frederick Douglass McLeod III.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: What year was that?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: What to say, 2008?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been a minute.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell It's been a while ago.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: It was on July 4th in the Bowcatcher Theater parking lot.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a drug deal gone bad.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody attempted to rob him with a knife, and it didn't go well, and he ended up getting stabbed.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: He lived for a little bit, but they didn't see how bad the wound was, and he ended up expiring on the way to the hospital.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a veteran detective that you worked with on that one that kind of showed you the ropes?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell There was two specifically, Forrest Weaver and Mike Downing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Mike Downing would go on uh to be uh a mentor for me for the next year in criminal investigations, and Forrest Weaver was an absolutely outstanding interviewer, and I learned a lot from him too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell With your detectives now, you've got some young, up-and-coming detectives, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got the interim program.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know we've got a couple of newer ones.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who are they learning from in your group?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Who are your mentors, the people that kind of you can just see they're just kind of like teaching along the way?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell I've got some great people in our major case unit.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: I've got some awesome people in our uh Family Justice Center unit, our our special victims unit.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: Huge shout out to some of my folks in the street crimes unit.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: I can't mention them by name, but they they take a lot of time mentoring newer officers and enthusiastic folks.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: My supervisors really, really do an outstanding job.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: My major case supervisor, Charles Wells, is super committed.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: I've got an awesome Family Justice Center sergeant, Wade Cecil, who's been doing this for a real long time.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: Wade and Charles came up together as detectives, too.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a really good blend, it seems like, of veterans, guys with maybe only three, four, five years left, guys that are about halfway there, you know, they've got 10, 15 years left, and then some young folks just getting started.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like a good blend.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell So that's the way of it.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like I had a mentor, I know who I've mentored along the way.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: I have heard stories of Mike Downing being mentored by older detectives, and before that I couldn't name names.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: Thankfully, with my wife's uh study of our history, I know a few older names here and there.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: But I I'd be willing to bet that like our knowledge of criminal investigations and how to do the process, it goes all the way back to Frank Jordan, the first detective here.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell She's brought him up several times during our podcast.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: He's absolutely an interesting figure in Asheville's history.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Is there a rock star detective that comes to mind besides him in the history of the APD?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we were talking 150 years, somebody that comes to mind for you right away?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_04: Aaron Powell There are a few uh that I've heard of along the way.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Some of the older folks in my spot that were there for years, they made some interesting news stories, which is how we remember them.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: But for me, like just sort of my personal hero is like the first detective supervisor, Frank Jordan.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Just to show you how things have changed, we just discussed in the last episode an officer-involved shooting from 1931, and how little that they knew about the process, about how to get somebody.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: They they had a case of mistaken identity for the assailant because it was, you know, some people said, no, that's the guy.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, it they had his name, they knew who did what, but they couldn't quite like definitively say that's so-and-so, because it's 1931.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that just shows how different things are then to now.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: I know the story you're talking about.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, uh so some of the challenges are gone, but some there are some challenges.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: That still remains.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Captain Joe Silberman, we thank you so much.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've got to get back to work and solving crimes right now.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a busy one.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I know everyone's counting on you to come through in this uh this latest one that we've had a lot of questions about, and I wanted to get you in here just so people know how the process works for you and your team.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for taking your time with us today.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: I really appreciate it, and I do really appreciate the members of the public that have have shown support and helped us along like with previous investigations, but especially with this one.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: We'd be in a much worse spot if we didn't have some people already come forward and say, like, hey, this is what I know.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So there I am in my office minding my own business a couple of weeks ago, and in my inbox pops an email from Office of the Chief, and it reads In recognition of National Real-Time Intelligence Center Recognition Week, we want to acknowledge the employees who are helping build the Asheville Police Department's future RTIC.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Although our RTIC is still under development, significant work is already underway behind the scenes.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: From planning and policy development to technology implementation and operational readiness, your dedication is laying the foundation for a capability that will enhance officer safety, improve investigations, and strengthen public safety in our community.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your professionalism, innovation, and commitment to this important initiative.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: The work you are doing today is positioning our department for success well into the future.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that email acknowledges the employees who are helping build the Asheville Police Department's future RTIC, and we do the same here today.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Joining me are Sergeant Nathan Diedeker, public safety analyst Elena Kaufman, and technology supervisor Jimmy Wingo.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy, welcome.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, thanks for coming.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Sergeant Diedeker, thank you too as well.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've denied me at least six or seven times before.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: We finally got you in the room because Jimmy said you had to.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so let's do this today.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're just going to kind of talk about the RTIC, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: The real-time intelligence center.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's been a lot of conversation about what it is, what it isn't.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think more about what it isn't than what it is.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is that accurate, Jimmy, so far from what you're seeing?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just people out there think it's something that it's not?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have this preconceived notion either from TV or people putting out falsehoods about what it actually is.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, we there's a lot of people that are surprised when they come to the tour, or we sit and talk to them about what it can and what it can't do.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about those tours really quick since you just brought that up.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: We've been doing those now for several months.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Both yourself and Cheap Step.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: People, usually it's four individuals, right?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the tour itself takes, oh, like an hour or more, almost two hours, where every question that wants to get asked gets asked and answered.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: How have you felt those have gone so far?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell, I think it's really opened people's eyes as to what it actually is.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a couple of people that come in with one mindset and left with another.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they still liked it or loved it, but they were more understanding of how the system works.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, Sergeant Diedeker, as the sworn officer that's involved over this staff, what exactly is your role with the RTIC?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell I'm kind of a filter.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of times people reach out for cases, maybe, hey, do you think you can help us figure out this case or we're looking for this, just get certain requests, and I'll kind of filter those down and send a lot of that work to Elena or Brooklyn, who are the public safety analysts.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'll also keep up with like different data that we have in our systems and really just overseeing the RTIC right now, making sure that we have work to do and staying busy, trying to help as much and support as much as possible CID, patrol.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned Elena.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Your name was invoked, Elena.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So public safety analyst is your title, and yourself in Brooklyn are the two employees that with that title, correct?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: So what exactly is it you do?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen you in the room, I kind of know what you do, but kind of explain that to folks.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: So the main mindset of our job is just for public and our officer safety, whether it's looking at footage or case research, um, just to overall help them on a day-to-day basis.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um we also do case research for detectives, just overall making sure our officers and detectives have the ability to stay out on the field rather than sitting in front of a computer all day.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is mainly our priority.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we're also drone pilots for the DFR program.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're not doing that, uh we are also flying drones to also help our officers' safety.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what you do now, you will continue to do when the RTIC is completely active.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: It'll just be, safe to say, a little bit easier with all things in one location instead of having to jump off a screen to go to a different screen.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it would it would be a lot easier just to have everything on one program, one screen allows us to be quicker and faster for, again, our officers and our public safety.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So Jimmy, flock is a five-letter word, but I think most people kind of look at it now as a four-letter word.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's being used almost as like an all-encompassing word of what this I guess just surveillance in general is people, how they look at it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like people say flock, and it gets you this kind of tingle up your spine all of a sudden, like it is the big brother George Orwell.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Explain what a Flock camera does.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Flock is a corporation that has many different cameras.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: They have uh general contacts cameras and then they have license plate reader cameras.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually have the license plate reader cameras from Flock, but we also have them from different companies as well.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the license plate reader camera basically captures a shot of the vehicle and the license plate so that we can go back and see if uh if we have a vehicle involved in a crime, then we can take that uh information from the plate, go back and see if it was in that area during that time.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: By state law, this all of this data has to be purged within 90 days.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Safeguards is a big thing, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because people are afraid, they're fearful of this whole system and anything that this can possibly do.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so because of that, it's been designed in such a way that there's all these layers of accountability.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: We only have 18 people in the department that has the ability to search for a tag out of all the 200 officers that are here.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: We have 18 people that can search.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have to list a reason either with the case number and uh the type of crime that's involved.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that is for all of our LPRs, not just Flock.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've still got to list a reason and list the crime and the case number, and then there's also quarterly audits that are done on this system.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got non-sworn civilian employees like yourself, and also like you, Elena, and we've got sworn officers that are part of it as well.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to investigations, Sergeant Diedeker, you've been a part of some that have incorporated the technology that's provided by the RTIC.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can you name a couple of things just off hands, some things that have been done, some cases that have been broken, some information that has provided you with the leads to make an arrest?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: And there's cases if we hadn't had flock.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: I worked in our investigations for almost five years before going back to the road when I got promoted and then coming up to this position.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's definitely cases where if we didn't have flock, we never would have solved them.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we have out-of-state people coming in to break into a jewelry store.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: All we have is some surveillance.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And just from the surveillance photos, we get certain descriptions of a vehicle.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: And Elena and Brooklyn are very good at their job.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: They can go through and try to track that vehicle and see where it goes to, and it's led to breaks and cases to where we solve them where otherwise we we never would have.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing everyday hit and runs.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times, you know, the victims of the hit and run, all they see is a description of a vehicle.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're not going to get the tag.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: They can look for that vehicle in that area and very often solve a hit and run case, just very simply.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: Also, with those kind of cases where we do have those breaks in that 90 days that we have to get rid of everything, the only way that we can keep it is for our case, and the officers have to get a sworn affidavit, it has to get notarized, and then that comes to me, and then I keep copies of that for our records.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: And every month I'll go through and make sure that there's no images that are being kept for any cases unless there's an affidavit for it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So that first one you mentioned, it that's the first one that jumped to mind for me as well.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was, I believe, from uh it was a jewelry store.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was a combination of really good detective work and technology working hand in hand and finding a guy with it was an out-of-state license plate.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: And without the LPRs or without Flock, we would have never found out who it was.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: That was the main part of evidence that really helped the detective kind of figure out who it might be, put him on somebody.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because my knowledge, other than that, we didn't have much to go off of.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Elena, did you work on that one?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do you m remember which one I'm talking about?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Yeah.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: I did work on it for a little bit.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like Dieter said, without Flock and the cameras, we wouldn't be able to find it.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was a huge breakthrough helping the detectives.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Once we gave them the car uh through Flock, the detectives took it from there and they followed the car back and went to all the other stores that they saw the car and followed it, traced it all the way back to the other state.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you want to be a public safety analyst and the position that you do right now?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: What did you do prior to this college degree?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Anything along those lines?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I always knew that I wanted to be in the criminal justice field, primarily in an officer setting.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just graduated from college in December of 2024.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: However, I had some health issues and I knew that being a sworn officer wasn't really the right choice for me, but I still wanted to make a difference in the criminal justice field.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I came across this job, and it was exactly what I wanted to do.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: I get to be in an office and I get to protect and help officers on a day-to-day basis without being on the field with some of the health issues that I have.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it just fits perfectly, and I really do think that I'm really grateful for this job.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you go to school?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: I went to Longwood University.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little small school in Farmville, Virginia.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know about Longwood because it's a member of the Big South Conference.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the Longwood Lancers.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I even know that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you are not from the Asheville area.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell No, I'm not.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're kind of getting used to a new job, a new department, your first department, a new city.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: How's that all going for you?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've only been here for what, about a year, year and a half?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: A year, yeah.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Year coming up in August.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was a huge change, just memorizing where all the roads and where all the areas are.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I've a lot of my coworkers are really great and they've helped me adapt to this new environment.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Asheville is a great city.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I would stay here for as long as I can.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's really an awesome place.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Jimmy, I'm not sure I've ever asked you.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know you worked for the State Patrol, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: The Highway Patrol or the Trevor Burrus Correct.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: So where are you from originally?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Here.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you are an Asheville guy?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: More or less.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Western North Carolina.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Or to the Asheville Police Department for five years, and then I went to the Highway Patrol in 1994.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diediker, how about you?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: I started in 2014.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Did patrol for like a year, and then I actually worked on our downtown unit for a couple years.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Then I went to uh public housing and then worked there for about a year.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: While I was on public housing, I got on the emergency response team.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: After working in housing for about a year, I got in a real gnarly line of duty injury.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Had about four subsequent surgeries from then and I actually have a fake ankle now.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: But uh I was working in CID during that time for about five years, I guess.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then I actually got back to work and got promoted to the rank of sergeant and went out and worked patrol for a year, and then I got pulled back up here.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's pretty nice, like already knowing public housing, you know, having worked in CID, I also fly a drone for the SWAT team.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just nice having all those like a little bit of everything whenever I came up here because I can really pull a lot of things together and kind of know the workflow, how things go with CID or with flying drones, uh, know the camera systems and public housing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's been pretty nice.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's good.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Is this something you wanted to do, or was this just something you got assigned and had to learn?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell I'll be honest, I had no idea that we were even doing this until I was called and I was like, I I was working nights, uh pretty brutal.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: I've got two young kids and uh just working nights, I really enjoyed it a lot, didn't know I was going anywhere.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'd been on the road for about a year, and then my lieutenant, who's my lieutenant out there, who now is the lieutenant over the RTIC, had called me and he said, Hey, you want to come up to the RTIC with me?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what's that?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: So it's different than what I'm kind of used to.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm kind of a boots on the ground kind of person, but it was really neat.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's nice to be kind of the spearhead of something new with us and trying to figure things out.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously having Jimmy, the command staff, lieutenant, and captain, full support, and then having Elena in Brooklyn, and we have another part-time guy who came back and they're just awesome.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: They make this job so easy.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're all kind of learning what the RTIC is, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the community is as well.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of really bubbled to the surface not that long ago because of a government grant that we had received.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let me see if I get this right, Jimmy.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're the guy because uh everyone says talk to Jimmy about this.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even the chief says no, I'm I defer to Jimmy Wingo on this.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so essentially, we have all of the tools that will comprise the RTIC pretty much now.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: The things that we're using, we're using already, for the most part, the cameras that this what that does is bring it all together in one location so it seamlessly merges with each other, and you can actively like find out a cer a suspect in an active investigation or something.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can probably describe it way better than I just did.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Am I close?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're close.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the real-time intelligence center is basically brick and mortar building, a room.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: What makes that up is the software and the hardware, of course, that is in that room.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's FUSIS.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Along with the analyst FUSIS.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So with FUCSIS, it does exactly what you're saying.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have that now.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have a freer, cheaper lack version of that.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when we have FUCSIS 100 percent, then we would be able to bring what I say all of our cameras, all of our technology into one pane of glass.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the video wall would be every technology that we have dealing with cameras and open source information, anything like that, will all be able to be accessed from that one wall.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell So, Elena, as the public safety analyst, how will your job change from now to let's say in six months when the RTIC is active?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell I wouldn't say it's gonna change a whole lot.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's gonna be just about the same stuff we do now, just with this additional grant and the money and the resources, it's just gonna bring everything together and just allow us to do our job a lot quicker and more efficient.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I think that's the key right there is the efficiency, right?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing that we don't have now is the ability to integrate or to register cameras.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we talk about integrating cameras, let's say that a hotelier or a restaurant wants to uh integrate their cameras with us, let's say they want to integrate their outside cameras, then if anything happens in that area, based upon their permissions that they have given us, we can look, either go back and look at uh prior history or we can look live during that time period, but that's all controlled by them.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh and how that works, we don't store footage.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the big misconceptions.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody thinks we store footage.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: The only footage we store is involved with a crime.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: We do not store any footage.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: If it is Billy Bob's business and he has a 30-day camera that keeps footage for 30 days and gives us access to that, then we could go back 30 days.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't keep that footage unless it's tied to a crime itself.
• 38:10
  unknown: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have seen a few instances of shenanigans in other departments that kind of make this whole technology universe look bad lately.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: People misusing the equipment.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that just kind of confirms some fears, right?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, well, look at this, they just did it here.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do we alleviate those fears that people have?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a way to do that?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I I don't know that you want to totally alleviate that because you want to, you know, you want people to know that we're we're doing the audits, we're checking into it.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: We've had recently, I think, in the news, you've seen multiple officers where they've actually been charged with going back into flock cameras.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's great.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So the checks and balances is working.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, yes, so somebody did something they shouldn't have, but they got caught and they've been dealt with.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the technology that we're utilizing today.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: For instance, if you've got Alexa in your home, you have probably pretty intimate conversations near your Alexa device.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Who's to say where that information goes?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've been spying on me, Jim.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do you know what kind of conversations are those types of information that the public has, whether it be your ring doorbell camera, your car camera, uh, your cell phone, that information you can keep that forever as a private citizen.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can go around and video stuff all day long.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have rules and regulations where that has to be destroyed in a certain time period, and you have to have reason, legal reason to use it the way you do.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So businesses and individuals can opt in and opt out whenever they want.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever they want.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have uh what is called a registry program, which is what most uh citizens would do like from their home cameras.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: So basically what that does is they tell us that they have the uh cameras at their house, they have they give us their email, the phone number, a good contact person, we put it into this map that we will have, and what happens is we can draw a circle around that and say, okay, if a crime happens in this area, we will send a blast email to everybody.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you have something regarding this whatever, white pickup truck, green van, what have you, could you send it back to us?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to, fine if you don't find.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that is part of a registry, and that's how that works.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: We actually have absolutely no connection with you other than your email.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And going back to what Elena says, this is just making things happen quicker and faster.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you instead of the officer knocking on every door, sir or ma'am, we've had a crime, can you know, do you mind looking at your video?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this way it's live, you know, happens real time.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diedeker, you've been on the street before, obviously, and uh in the housing unit specifically, so you've kind of been there in the thick of it.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: What are people saying out in the community and maybe even the criminal element about the technology?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are they pretty fearful of it because they know that we can catch them or are they unknowing of it?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: How does the technology hit those folks out there?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell I think people are more curious about it, just asking questions of how it works.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think they come into it thinking, oh, the government's spying on me.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um they're watching everything I do.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in public housing particular, though, with there's there's been cameras in there for years provided by the housing authority that we have access to watch uh that help us in a very large amount of crimes that are committed in those areas.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: But usually it's people just having questions, and once we explain it, they're just like, oh, okay.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like Jimmy's saying, we're not over here running tags just to run tags.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: I have seen where officers from other states or maybe even some in this state have been caught.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what they're looking up, girlfriend they're stalking or something like that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: We've had sensitive information in law enforcement, and not everybody's a great person, even in law enforcement.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes people do stupid things and they do illegal things, and the system's also created to where that person's probably going to get caught doing those things.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's got a really good checks and balances, and I think that's something people are really worried about or that we're giving this information to the to the government.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is, as far as I know, this is all internal.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: We're doing all this.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's got a pretty good checks and balances.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I don't I don't handle any of the audit stuff.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know exactly what goes into it, but I'm not gonna go in there and unless I have a case number and I can say exactly what this person's wanting.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: An officer contacts me say, hey, can you run this car?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, you got a case number.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: If they don't have a case number, I'm probably not running it.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or uh they're gonna have to explain to me what they need, and that's part of the filter system if I'm sending it down to a lane in Brooklyn, you know, in case someone is trying to be do something unscrupulous.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell I've been asked this question before by the media.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've been asked this question as part of the tours.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are afraid we're gonna share our information with other federal agencies, like, for example, ICE.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell No, we do not share with any federal agency uh at all.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: We do share with agencies within 500 radius miles of here or 500 miles from here.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: We share with other agencies and they share with us.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thus a person robs a bank here and the car is alerted on a flock, let's say somewhere in Tennessee.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: We would know that, and they could know that if certain things were turned on, if they choose to turn on like the hot list.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: But no, we do not share with uh I think So I've got technology supervisor Jimmy Wingo with me.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've got Sergeant Nathan Diedeker and public safety analyst Elena Kaufman.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when do we expect the RTIC to go live?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: I believe we've been saying spring or summer of 2027.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's still where we're at.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Probably uh there is some construction to do.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: As you mentioned, it's a physical room, which is like not far from where we're sitting right now.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and this was the old backup to the 911 Center.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So uh there's some work that has to be done in there.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Once that's done, and of course the purchase of equipment Uh desks, chairs, so on and so forth.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: We are truly shooting for early spring.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Little lighter subject now.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: We call this part the totally random rapid fire portion of the pod squad, right?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: So first answer that comes to mind, this has absolutely nothing to do with surveillance cameras or your current job.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start with Jimmy.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is pineapple allowed on pizza?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, as a teenager, what poster was on your bedroom wall?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'd say Justin Bieber.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Dieteker, sleeping in or up before everyone else?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Up before everybody else.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: The category is food condiments.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hellman's, Dukes, or Miracle Whip?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Dukes.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: True Southern.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, first purchase after winning Powerball.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone in particular?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just a really nice car.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just a really nice car, right?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diediker, your high school mascot was Mountaineer.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Tuscola.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was about to say Tuscola.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy, outdoor picnic or indoor candlelight dinner?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely indoor.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, you got big news.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the first person you tell?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: My mom.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diedeker?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you play a musical instrument?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was definitive.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy, watch your favorite team play for the championship in person in horrible weather or from your own living room.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, living room.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not a bad weather guy, huh?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, out to dinner with a bunch of friends, and you get to pick the appetizer.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, pretzels and beer cheese is my go-to.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one, too.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diedeker, your go-to karaoke song.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Songs About Rain by Gary Allen.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to hear you do that sometime.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy, Invisibility or Super Strength?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Super Strength.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Elena, what song do you always turn up when you hear it?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tougher one, right?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: We go into beebs again, or are we gonna do something more?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say I can't nothing comes to mind but anything country, I turn up.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sergeant Diedeker, I know we've talked boxing before.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: You and me, ten rounds.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who wins?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: How many rounds it goes?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: How long are the rounds?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Standard, what are they, three minutes?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'd win.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're correct.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But how many rounds?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: Before I win?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, are you talking about like you're gonna quit on me or like I'm gonna have to make you stop?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or what are we talking about?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: See, I was gonna go with you win by unanimous decision, but I go the distance.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can take a punch.
• 46:15
  unknown: Okay.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, thank you so much for joining me and for a little bit of levity here near the end.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know you got a lot of pressure on you with the RTIC, the Real-Time Intelligence Center.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting it from all directions, and Jimmy especially, you gotta hear it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna continue to do more tours, correct?
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Until all the questions are answered by the community.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also going out into community at community meetings and, you know, explaining everything to them and having them ask us questions.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a lot of bad information out there, and we would love to clear that up the best we can.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Jimmy, Elena, Sergeant Diedeker, thank you all for joining me.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: That wraps it up for another episode of the APD Pod Squad.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening, and thank you to my guests, Captain Joe Silberman, Technology Supervisor Jimmy Wingo, Sergeant Nathan Diedeker, and public safety analyst Elena Kaufman.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: We mentioned this in the beginning, but we'll say it again.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: In case you want to reach us, you can leave us a voicemail at 828-250-8800 or email APD Podcastfeedback at AshevilleNC.gov.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: As we approach 7,500 downloads of the APD Pod Squad, thank you.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't do it without you.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoy the APD Pod Squad, please tell a friend, family, or coworker.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts and don't miss a single episode.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do leave us a five-star review that goes a long way.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Rick Rice, and this is the APD Pod Squad.