Latest / The You Project / #2222 Is Your Mind the Problem or the Solution? - Dr. Cam McDonald

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#2222 Is Your Mind the Problem or the Solution? - Dr. Cam McDonald · The You Project

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  Speaker 1: G'day, team. It's Harps, it's Tiff, it's Dr. Cam. It's
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the You Project. Hope you're great. Good afternoon, Tiffany. How
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: are you? Very fabulous, thank you, Mr.
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  Speaker 2: Harper.
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  Speaker 3: And I just was made aware that you just had
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  Speaker 3: right before me a chat with the good doc on
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  Speaker 3: your show.
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  Speaker 1: I know, and I just want it to go for
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  Speaker 1: like four hours once he gets started. Once he gets
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  Speaker 1: on a roll.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's funny, once people have like which.
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  Speaker 3: we might talk about towards the end of this one,
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  Speaker 3: but people have a bit of a light bulb moment
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  Speaker 3: in their own life or a personal revelation or realization.
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  Speaker 3: And then how that becomes their thing for a while,
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  Speaker 3: because you, and I've done the same thing where I
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  Speaker 3: realized something I want to fucking tell everyone and share
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  Speaker 3: it with everyone.
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  Speaker 1: Cause all of a sudden I go, I was missing out.
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  Speaker 3: Maybe they're missing out, but it's fair to say you've
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  Speaker 3: been on a journey doc.
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  Speaker 1: Is that right?
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  Speaker 4: I love a journey. Yes, absolutely.
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  Speaker 5: Navigating all of the ins and outs of my mind
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  Speaker 5: and what I think the purpose of my life is,
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  Speaker 5: it's been very, very powerful.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Actually, I'm going to make a note. Let's
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  Speaker 1: definitely talk about that, but I want to start off
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  Speaker 1: somewhere else.
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  Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit about, or maybe
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  Speaker 3: a lot bit, So something happened recently, well, this year
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  Speaker 3: in AFL.
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  Speaker 1: Now, this is not about AFL, everyone.
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  Speaker 3: This is really about psychology, and it's about performance, and
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  Speaker 3: it's about the relationship between what's happening in our mind,
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  Speaker 3: what's happening in our body. And if you're an athlete,
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  Speaker 3: what's happening in terms of your athletic performance. So in
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  Speaker 3: the AFL this year, there's a team called Carlton. Now,
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  Speaker 3: I know you're probably an NRL.
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  Speaker 1: Guy, but Carlton.
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  Speaker 3: So They had a coach called Michael Voss, and to
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  Speaker 3: all of my football follower listeners, sorry, this is so fundamental,
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  Speaker 3: but we have overseas listeners. We have lots of listeners
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  Speaker 3: in the States, the UK, Canada, and New Zealand. So
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  Speaker 3: this is for them. So in the AFL, our listeners,
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  Speaker 3: international listeners, that's a national football code, although there's different
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  Speaker 3: codes played here, but that's the Australian version.
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  Speaker 1: So Carlton had at about, what is it, the.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know, 40% stage of the season. So there's
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  Speaker 3: 23 games in a home and away season. At round nine,
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  Speaker 3: they were sitting one win and eight losses. So they
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  Speaker 3: sacked the coach. And by the way, this is not
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  Speaker 3: about the sacked coach. It's just about this interesting phenomenon.
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  Speaker 1: So think about that.
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  Speaker 3: This team, Carlton, They've played nine games in a 23-game season.
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  Speaker 3: They've lost eight games out of nine. They're at the
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  Speaker 3: bottom of the ladder. And then a new guy comes in.
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  Speaker 3: His name happens to be Josh Fraser. And then so
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  Speaker 3: the only thing that changed in terms of big things
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  Speaker 3: was that the coach was different. So you think about
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  Speaker 3: so they've got the same players, same personnel, same body's.
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  Speaker 3: Essentially the same training protocols in terms of strength and conditioning,
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  Speaker 3: by the way, is only one week turnaround. Nobody's got
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  Speaker 3: any better genetics. It's not like seven new players came
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  Speaker 3: into the team. And after losing eight out of nine games,
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  Speaker 3: they come out with a new coach the following week
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  Speaker 3: and they win. Then they come out the next week
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  Speaker 3: and they win. Then they come out the next week
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  Speaker 3: and they win. So the first coach, under the first
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  Speaker 3: coach in the first nine weeks of the season, they
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  Speaker 3: lost eight out of nine. For the remaining 14 games,
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  Speaker 3: they lost two. So they've lost like 90%, give or take,
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  Speaker 3: of the games that they played. And then they lost like,
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  Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe 15%. And I've been thinking about
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  Speaker 3: it a bit. So they drew one game and I
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  Speaker 3: think they won 11 or 12, but they only lost
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  Speaker 3: two games for the rest of the season after losing
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  Speaker 3: eight games. And I was just thinking about how there's
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  Speaker 3: been a whole lot of fanfare and hoopla and praise
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  Speaker 3: and all of this around their performance. But what fascinated
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  Speaker 3: me is you've got the same guys. It's not different guys.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a better team. They're not better players. They
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  Speaker 3: don't have more skill. They don't have more talent. They're
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  Speaker 3: no fitter. They're no stronger. They're no faster. They don't
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  Speaker 3: have different genetics. It's the exact same humans who started
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  Speaker 3: to produce completely different results. In fact, for the percentage
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  Speaker 3: of the time where Josh, the new coach, was in charge,
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  Speaker 3: they were the most winning team in the comp. after
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  Speaker 3: being the most losing team in the comp. And what
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  Speaker 3: fascinates me in the media is that nobody talks about
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  Speaker 3: why this happened. They talk about the fact that it
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  Speaker 3: did happen. And I want to understand the psychology behind this, right?
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  Speaker 3: Because if it's not about strength or speed or personnel
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  Speaker 3: or conditioning or recovery or any of those physiological things
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  Speaker 3: that all three of us are fascinated with, the same
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  Speaker 3: guys playing the same sport, what the fuck has happened?
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  Speaker 3: And so I've just been curious as to when you
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  Speaker 3: think there can be such a drastic and, I mean,
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  Speaker 3: almost unbelievable change in outcome and performance in seven days
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  Speaker 3: and it's not like, oh, they won one or two
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  Speaker 3: games because they were a bit euphoric because they were. No,
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  Speaker 3: they kept winning. They kept winning and they ended up
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  Speaker 3: getting into the finals. which was pretty much inconceivable from
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  Speaker 3: where they were. And I wonder how, if we could
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  Speaker 3: understand that, because obviously elite sporting teams are about winning.
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  Speaker 3: I would want to know if I was the coach,
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  Speaker 3: that coach, or the coach of another club, or the
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  Speaker 3: psychologist of another club, or the high performance coach, or
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  Speaker 3: the conditioning, I would want to know What is it,
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  Speaker 3: like what is the thing that made them in one
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  Speaker 3: week go from the most losing team to the most
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  Speaker 3: winning team? Because if you could figure that out, then
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  Speaker 3: you could build a model around it to at least
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  Speaker 3: try to change your operating system or your protocol because
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  Speaker 3: clearly something, it was way more than a coincidence or
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  Speaker 3: good luck. Clearly something changed. I would think at a sociological, cultural,
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  Speaker 3: psychological level that shifted their actual physical performance and outcomes
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  Speaker 3: to a crazy level in no time. Now, if they
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  Speaker 3: came back and they had new players and they drafted
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  Speaker 3: well and it was a new season and they'd done
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  Speaker 3: a whole different strength and conditioning program and they had
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  Speaker 3: a brand new squillion dollar gym or a dietician.
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  Speaker 1: That was incredible or you go, cool. That makes sense.
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  Speaker 3: But logically, this doesn't make sense because this happened in
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  Speaker 3: a week. What are your thoughts about that? Like is
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  Speaker 3: that amazing to you or not?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, it's incredible. It is incredible.
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  Speaker 5: The first thought that came to my head, there's a few,
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  Speaker 5: was I wonder what baggage– what divides were being created
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  Speaker 5: in the team by the, by the, by whatever the
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  Speaker 5: dynamic was.
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  Speaker 4: And it may not have even been the coach.
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  Speaker 5: It might've been a series of dynamics that meant that
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  Speaker 5: the coach was just the wrong fit to support the
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  Speaker 5: dynamics in the way that it needed to be done.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And then these guys come in and set a new
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  Speaker 5: frame and was the right person to make these dynamics work.
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  Speaker 5: Then there's some other things that come up, like just
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  Speaker 5: the way that we can change our state from moment
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  Speaker 5: to moment.
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  Speaker 4: Like you can literally be.
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  Speaker 5: Sad and feeling a bit depressed, but then someone comes
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  Speaker 5: along and gives you a smile and really sees and
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  Speaker 5: hears you.
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  Speaker 4: And all of a sudden you're like, geez, how good's life?
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  Speaker 5: And that has a very real physiological effect on your
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  Speaker 5: system to feel better about yourself and to feel like
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  Speaker 5: you're seen, to feel like you belong. But the state
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  Speaker 5: that you can change can be rapid. The way that
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  Speaker 5: you can change your perspective on things can be rapid
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  Speaker 5: as well. But the idea that that's happened in a
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  Speaker 5: week And to know that the complexities of team dynamics
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  Speaker 5: and whatever piece this coach has fit is absolutely fascinating.
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  Speaker 4: And obviously he said something in the change room, like
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  Speaker 4: he said something.
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  Speaker 5: But what I really love is the research from HeartMath
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  Speaker 5: in this space around literally the heart rate frequency that
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  Speaker 5: you have, like the beats per minute and the way
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  Speaker 5: that that varies represents different emotional states. And the person
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  Speaker 5: with the strongest state wins. And if you come in
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  Speaker 5: with a state... and then you're able to project that.
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  Speaker 5: It's even the unspoken things that can be created in this.
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  Speaker 5: And even if you were to unpack it, the players
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  Speaker 5: might even say, I don't know, just sort of started
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  Speaker 5: working all of a sudden.
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  Speaker 4: It just felt better in the locker room all of
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  Speaker 4: a sudden.
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  Speaker 5: There's so many unseen and seen things that could have
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  Speaker 5: gone on, but that's my, it is absolutely fascinating.
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  Speaker 3: Well, when you think the same guys are now producing consistently,
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  Speaker 3: totally different results, could have been a girls team, doesn't matter,
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  Speaker 3: it's human beings, but I'm fascinated with, well, what were
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  Speaker 3: the things? Because the emotional shift, the cultural shift, the
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  Speaker 3: psychological shift, the energy between the players and the coach,
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  Speaker 3: all of that I get. But what it translated to
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  Speaker 3: was more goals. It translated to winning games that they
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  Speaker 3: would not have done probably if they stayed in the
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  Speaker 3: same space with their coach, right?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And it's like we worry, like everything they talk about
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  Speaker 3: in football, they talk about the one percenters. They probably
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  Speaker 3: talk about it in other sports as well.
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  Speaker 1: But doing the things that make one percent of a difference.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Well, when you go from winning one game then to
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  Speaker 1: winning nearly all of the games for the rest of
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  Speaker 1: the season, that's not 1%. That's a million percent. Do
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  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? To understand, well, what happened?
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  Speaker 3: And if we can figure out what happened, then maybe
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  Speaker 3: we can transfer that to other sports or other athletes
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  Speaker 3: or even people who are non-athletes. It could be people
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  Speaker 3: in corporate who go from producing lousy results to great results.
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  Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, it still came
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  Speaker 3: down to, after all the psychological and emotional and whatever stuff,
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  Speaker 3: there's still the actual physical and athletic performance on the ground,
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  Speaker 3: which is really what matters in terms of Australian rules
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  Speaker 3: football and the flag. All they care about is who's winning,
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  Speaker 3: who's playing great, Who's getting the most kicks, the most marks,
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  Speaker 3: the most goals, the most shepherds, the most tackles, the
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  Speaker 3: most impact on the game, whatever. I don't know the answer,
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  Speaker 3: but I just know that's definitely something worth investigating.
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  Speaker 4: Well, it's... Yes.
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  Speaker 5: And this is what's so interesting about the physical side
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  Speaker 5: of things, even from a different setting, Gabrielle Salisi. I
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  Speaker 5: don't know if you remember that guy is like the
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  Speaker 5: 10,000 kilometer runner, world record holder, all that sort of stuff.
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  Speaker 5: There was a really famous study done on him that
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  Speaker 5: said lactic acid does not cause fatigue.
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  Speaker 4: And what it tracked was his lactic acid through the race.
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  Speaker 5: And for the last two laps, his lactic acid was
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  Speaker 5: off the charts and, but his running performance was at
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  Speaker 5: its best the whole race at that point as well.
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  Speaker 5: And so it's saying fatigue is literally a mental game
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  Speaker 5: because lactic acid, it makes you feel a particular way,
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  Speaker 5: but the sign of physiological stress that he was under,
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  Speaker 5: the tiredness that he should have been experiencing wasn't represented
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  Speaker 5: in his performance.
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  Speaker 4: And it's because he's obviously chasing a gold medal. He
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  Speaker 4: was chasing a record, whatever it might be.
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  Speaker 5: And so it makes me think in this sense, You
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  Speaker 5: haven't changed anything physically about these players.
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  Speaker 4: The only thing that.
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  Speaker 5: Has shifted is their mindset, is the energy that they're
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  Speaker 5: using or the dynamic that they've decided, the common agreement
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  Speaker 5: that they've come to. And that in and of itself
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  Speaker 5: can reduce fatigue, can reduce the perception of fatigue. And
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  Speaker 5: so when you're out there playing the same game, You're
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  Speaker 5: not as tired anymore. It makes a massive difference to
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  Speaker 5: how you turn up. But what I'm even more fascinated
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  Speaker 5: by is you can have a team of players that
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  Speaker 5: have gone from getting their bums handed to them Yes.
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  Speaker 4: And then they've turned it around.
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  Speaker 5: Like it's not just a matter of, Oh, it's possible
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  Speaker 5: to change your mindset, but they have literally gone from
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  Speaker 5: where a losing team to where a winning team, like
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  Speaker 5: the identity shift in that is insane. And for a
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  Speaker 5: whole team to be able to do that in one hit,
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  Speaker 5: like have they got any information at all? Have they
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: done any interviews with the new bike that's coming?
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  Speaker 1: I would love to be, I would love to do that.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: Cause I, exercise physiology psychology like it's right in my
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  Speaker 3: wheelhouse but i was thinking if i was a coach
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  Speaker 3: of another team and all of a sudden this team
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  Speaker 3: came out at the start of the year and all
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  Speaker 3: their players looked bigger and stronger and faster and they
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  Speaker 3: played better and everybody would be trying to figure out
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  Speaker 3: what they'd done like what training program what supplements if
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  Speaker 3: any what food, who's their new strength coach or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: We'd be trying to figure out, but because it's not
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  Speaker 3: something that's changed physiologically, but psychologically, there's not the same curiosity.
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  Speaker 3: And I think people don't understand, and this is coming
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  Speaker 3: from an exercise scientist like you are, like Tiff kind
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  Speaker 3: of is in a different way, where you go, I'm
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  Speaker 3: fascinated with the body and strength and power and speed
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  Speaker 3: and agility and reaction time and recovery and nutrition and
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  Speaker 3: all of that. But you could get somebody who's a
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  Speaker 3: magnificent physical specimen with amazing skills who just doesn't have
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  Speaker 3: the psychological kind of stability or kind of similarities, right,
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  Speaker 3: where they're like incredibly gifted, great genetics, but they just
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  Speaker 3: can't cope with pressure.
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  Speaker 1: They just get.
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  Speaker 3: Overwhelmed and eventually their nervous system gets hijacked and now
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  Speaker 3: they're fucked, right? But that's a result of not the situation,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: but rather their reaction to the situation, which again is
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  Speaker 3: a psychological, cognitive and then physiological thing. But yeah, to
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  Speaker 3: my understanding, and I know a friend of mine is
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: a psych who works in the system, but I think
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  Speaker 3: we should we should be having a much bigger look
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  Speaker 3: across the board at the impact that players understanding themselves
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  Speaker 3: and their own mind, metacognition and their own experiences and
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  Speaker 3: the way that their mind can manipulate their body for
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  Speaker 3: good or bad, the role that their mind has on
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  Speaker 3: their performance on a given day, their mental and emotional
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  Speaker 3: preparation before the performance so that when they go, yep,
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  Speaker 3: they're really strong, they're really fast, they're well-trained physically, but
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  Speaker 3: imagine if that 10 out of 10 physical preparation could
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: be accompanied by a 10 out of 10 psychological and
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  Speaker 3: emotional preparation.
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  Speaker 1: Now it would be amazing to see what people can do.
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  Speaker 4: And to add to that as well is.
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  Speaker 5: The impact that you can draw from other people in
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  Speaker 5: the team and having a very honest and honest and
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  Speaker 5: very open channel of re-inspiration from those people around you
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  Speaker 5: because you'll have guys that have their off days but
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: then if you have the right language and the emotional
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  Speaker 5: intelligence within the team to say johnny's off we know
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  Speaker 5: what johnny needs from us to help him get up Uh,
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  Speaker 5: like that, like the team dynamic is the thing that
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  Speaker 5: really blows my mind because it's not as if one
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  Speaker 5: or two players have like all of a sudden played
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  Speaker 5: out of their socks.
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  Speaker 4: You've got a whole team that have bought into something common.
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  Speaker 5: All of a sudden it's something at that group level
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  Speaker 5: is what I'm really interested in. And I just wonder, uh,
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  Speaker 5: what was the baggage that was being held by the
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: previous coach? Like what was the thing that was just,
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  Speaker 5: it was not escalating these guys to what it could
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  Speaker 5: be and what was so different about this.
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  Speaker 4: And this is where it can be so subtle.
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  Speaker 5: Like, is it just that, three or four of the
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: players just weren't buying in. And that was just creating
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: a bit of a rift throughout the team. Is it
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: that those three or four players just got on board
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: and the right combination of another two players just stepping
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: in at the right time. And that was exactly the
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: relationship that was required for, like you just, and I
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  Speaker 5: don't know if you'd ever be able to unpack that
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  Speaker 5: unless you, like, unless you've got everybody that's fully aware
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  Speaker 5: of themselves and fully aware of what they were feeling
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  Speaker 5: and fully.
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  Speaker 4: Aware of the impact that they're having on others. Like it's,
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  Speaker 4: there is so much unseen in this.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's awesome.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you think like a team in 2026,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: they won eight games this year, for example, a team,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: and then next year they won 12 games, well, you'd
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  Speaker 3: say performance-wise that's a 50% improvement.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. What did they do?
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  Speaker 3: And that might make it into the finals in the AFL,
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  Speaker 3: just maybe 12 games. But this team improved a squillion
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: percent in a week. It's like that's the– so you
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: might have heard of this concept in sports psychology or
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: performance psychology, which is the performance capacity gap, which is
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: just the space between where you're currently performing, like your
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: current level of performance. It could be in anything really,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: and your capacity, like what is actually possible for you.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: So you might go Cam's best 5K run time is
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: 21 minutes. So he's running just over 4Ks, right, 4-minute Ks.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: So he does 5Ks, 21 minutes, and then he's like,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: how hard are you working? I'm like, how hard are
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: you working? You're like, mate, I'm working at 9.5 out
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  Speaker 3: of 10 to get that time. And then we do
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit of therapy, then we get some different coaching,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: and then he loses a few kilos and he does whatever.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: And then a year later, now you're running 18 minutes
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: for 5Ks. Or maybe, you know, so there's this thing
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: between where you are, your current performance, and not that
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: we want you to be a skinny 5K runner, but
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: like what is actually possible?
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And that one of the.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Things I've spoken about too much on this show, but
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: is so also perceived rate of exertion in sports psych,
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: which is how hard you think you're working.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So let's just call it a 1 to 10 score.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Over the years, so many times, and I'm sure Tiff's
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: the same and maybe you're the same, but I've.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Worked with people.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: You know, when you're working with somebody in a physical capacity,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: you're training them, they want to be stronger, leaner, faster,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: more endurance, more balanced, more whatever, all the things, right?
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: But in order to create that level of change that
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: they want, there needs to be some real work, like
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: an often real hard work. And i'll see some let's
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: just go with a guy for this story but i'll
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: see a guy in a gym in the gym or
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: i'm working with him and he's doing an exercise and
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: he does 12 reps and then he puts it down
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: like he's just about to die on the 12th rep
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: and i know he's working at five out of ten
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: if he's lucky But his story is I'm working at.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Nine and a half out of 10.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: So many, many times I've gone up and I've sat
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: next to that guy in inverted commas. I could give
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: you specific stories, but this will do an analogy. And
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I've said, I know you don't feel like this or
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: think this, but I've watched thousands of people do what
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: you've just done thousands of times. And I've worked with
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: thousands of bodies. you are working at about four or
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: five out of 10 in terms of your capacity. And
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: they would either get like surprised or pissed off or something, right?
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: And I'd say, I know you don't feel like that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Let's just use lap pulls as an example.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Then I would say, I want you to go, we're
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: going to do the same exercise, the same technique, same weight,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: that you just did 12 on and you told me
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: that was your max. You maybe could have got one
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: or two more if you had to. I just want
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: you to do as many reps as you can. Don't
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: worry about counting, I'll count. Just do as many reps
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: as you can without killing yourself. And more often than not,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: they will do more than 30. More often than not.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: So the person who went, I'm doing 12 and I'm
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: at my limit, it's a story.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Like we actually don't.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Understand our capacity because we never get there. And I
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: think that also happens with work, with academia, with creativity
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: where we go, oh, I'm maxed, you know, where you go, oh,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: this is me at nine out of ten. And when
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: you tell yourself that story and then you believe that story,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: then you build your own jail for your potential and
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: you live in that jail because you go, I can't
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: do any more, which generally, and I've built that jail myself,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: And then I realized this is a self-imposed restriction. This
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: is a story I have about my own potential and
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: capacity that I really don't understand because if I'm being
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: real and brave, I've never really tried. I mean, like
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: this is humanly all that I can do. I've never
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: done that. I've got a bit uncomfortable, you know, so
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: that I think, and we're not talking about doing it
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: in a, a destructive or an irresponsible way, but just
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: that when you open that door and you go, rather
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: than being guided by what I think I can do,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: let's just take my potential for a run.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Let's just see what might happen. I feel like you're distracted.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: What are you looking at over there?
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: Just a couple of notifications that came in, mate, but
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: I'm right here with you.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: See, that doesn't fill me with confidence.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: No, seriously.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: There was a couple of notifications that came through. It's
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: just my computer doing its thing. It's all good.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe you'll talk to me because I know you're paying attention.
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: You know what's been circling around my head the whole
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: time you've been talking about this is literally the thing
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: that we were discussing at the start of the conversation
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: with what are the things that have been getting in
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: the road of me actually achieving what I want to
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: on the planet. And probably one of the things that
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: really sticks out for me while this is happening is
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: while you've been just jabbering on.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: See what I mean, Tiff? See what I mean?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know what it's like, Tiff?
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: You're at a coffee with someone, they keep looking at
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: their phone, and you're in the middle of some impassioned
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: kind of message.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden everything in you just
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: wants to shut down.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: But I'm hearing you. I got it within the first
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: 30 seconds. Also, I'm an only child.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: You've got to factor that in.
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: You repeated yourself a bunch of good times and it
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: made it super clear what you were saying, which is very,
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: very helpful.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Oh, God.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: You think that's helping?
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: No, no, it's good.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: The.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: what I've been discovering in my journey in like is
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: literally that's, that's the space that I've been in is
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: what is my potential and where have I been performing?
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: And I've recently come to the conclusion that I'm sitting
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: in second gear and the things that were holding me
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: in second gear were a whole lot of beliefs. One
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: of the, one of the huge raft of beliefs, like
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: a whole layer that I've been unpacking is I, I,
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: I could not trust myself.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: I was completely untrustworthy.
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: That was a huge rift in my identity. And it's
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: so much so that the definition that I had for
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: integrity was, was I have to do it immediately and
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: I have.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: To do it by myself.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: That's not what integrity is at all, but that's what
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: I thought integrity was. And because I could never meet
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: that standard, I created all of these defense mechanisms to
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: essentially say, I don't need to achieve this because it's impossible.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: And I would just, I would dampen it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: And so I, And bringing this back to what you
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: were saying was just that my performance is so much
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: higher if I could trust in myself.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: But there was so many little mazes.
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: That I would go down that would say, no, don't
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: worry about it. You don't have to. We've not done
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: this before. You don't have to push as hard, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: What's so interesting about this situation, though, is that I've
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: been at this unpacking layers of beliefs for the last
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: six weeks. And I've got a sheet of beliefs. negative
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: beliefs that i that i'm noticing yeah and then i'm
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: reading and then i'm re-narrating them oh it's about 500
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: now over that time i've started to.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: See 500 negative yep.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: That like just catching myself and a lot of them
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: are repeated but it's me just catching it and rewriting
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: it again and catching whatever it might be um what
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: i find fascinating about this is it it's made life
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: so much clearer and But there's one thing, how they've
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: gone from I'm losing all the games and I've got
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: a losing mindset to winning all the games in such
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: a short period of time is mind-blowing for me because
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: my personal psychology, I'm a pretty aware person and I've
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: been working very dedicated at it, but my performance has
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: only really lifted in the last three to four weeks
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: after a couple of weeks of doing this very intensely. Secondly,
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: the other thing that went through my mind was which
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: is just gone right now. Anyway, the thing that really
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: landed was, yes, I found myself, once I cleared this stuff,
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: I'm now in second, I was in second gear. And
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: the guy doing the coaching with me, he said, mate,
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: you've been cruising for the last few years. And I
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: was like, mate, I'm working so bloody hard. And it
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: turns out that I was working very hard against myself.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: And then I finally cleared that noise. And I'm sitting
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: here just with me now, not with this noise that
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: was coming in, not with this competition in my life,
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: but And I'm realizing, oh man, I am going in
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: second gear. And then I go, how do I even
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: get into third gear or fourth gear or fifth gear?
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: Because I haven't even, I've never had the energy or
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: permitted my brain to even step into that space.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: But now I want to, and there's no roadmap for that.
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: So as you're talking about all of this i completely
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: relate this is to show.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: You that i'm repeating myself yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: Many times many times but it's very good for everybody
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: because it brings it in different angles people hear it
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: in a better way it's it's an excellent presenter skill
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: i'll never come back we've had a good run haven't
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: we the um the uh what I'm, uh, that the
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: idea of.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: Now, no big time, big time.
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: I'm digging up the idea of what you're capable of
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: versus what you're performing at and actually stepping out of
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: the beliefs and.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: Doing that in a sustained way.
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: It, the fact that they've gone from where they are
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: to where they've gone is incredible. The fact that somebody
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: can shift their beliefs so quickly and lift twice the
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: amount of weight is absolutely incredible. It's actually something that
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: we all have the tools for, the way that we
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: can channel our focus, but there is just so much
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: noise that we learn, the conditioning that we have as
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: kids and adults and relationships and work stress and all
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: of those types of things that are constantly just taking
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: our energy away and essentially just redirecting our resources. And
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: it's only been very recently that I've really understood exactly
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: what you're talking about in a very real sense. So, mate,
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: I'm right on the same page. And it was completely
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: attentive entirely the whole way through.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: No, mate, I appreciate that. I love that.
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: So if I'm listening to this, if I'm a listener,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I want to know, Because I feel like the conversation
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: here really is how does my mind get in the
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: way of me or my stories or my beliefs or
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: my bullshit or my fear or my self-doubt, my self-loathing,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: my lack of self-awareness, all that. So give us one
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: or two practical examples of something that was a limiting
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: factor for you mentally, psychologically, whatever. Yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Uh that you undid how did you do it and
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: what was the outcome.
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: Uh well the first there was a the first layer
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: was going into the subconscious stuff and i did this
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: with a practitioner uh and what that entailed was um
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: going back into a memory the first time i had
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: a feeling like some stress that was happening in my
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: life right now tracing that back to the first memory
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: that I had of having that same feeling or the
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: same thing happened to me, going back and reliving that experience,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: feeling the same feeling going through that and then essentially
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: understanding with more perspective what was actually happening in that
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: moment so that I could re-narrate that story.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: And so, for example, it could.
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: Have been my mom didn't love me enough and she
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: loved me as much as she possibly could. She's an
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: incredible mother, but I didn't feel it for whatever reason.
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: And so I went back and I felt that lack
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: of love. And then I went to understand what was
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: going through mom, what was going through me, And then
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: I rewrote the story in my mind and off that
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: central hub of a I'm unlovable feeling that I had,
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: there were a number of spokes and we had to
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: go and visit each of those spokes, those different things
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: that were all tied to that same central belief.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: And we had to do that.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: And each time there was a lot of emotion and
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: my particular method of getting rid of it was literally
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: streaming into a pillow as loud as I possibly could
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: with anger, with rage, with sadness, whatever it might be,
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: until I was virtually out of breath and something would shift.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: It was very, very interesting.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: Anyway, so that was the subconscious stuff. Because as long
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: as the subconscious stuff is there, as long as that
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: core belief is there, it'll just keep looping back around.
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: That's why you can get your head clear for a while.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: I want to ask you one question, like relative to
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: what you're saying.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: So you said the hub of the wheel was like
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: that you were unlovable or your mum didn't love you.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: You said there were lots of spokes off that. Yes.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: What were some of the byproducts of that belief that
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: you were unlovable or some of the spokes to that wheel?
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: I'll never forget her.
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: My first love in year two. And I asked her
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: out or someone asked her out on my behalf. Anyway,
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: she rejected me. And it's like that reconfirmed I'm unlovable.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: There was a time when I was at school and
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: I was sitting out and my mates were really pissed
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: at me because I did something stupid.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: I'm unlovable.
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: And so like each of those spokes, they happened early
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: enough to be a strong enough hold and they formed
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: part of like the sort of the core spiky ball
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: that sat at the center of all of this. And
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: the way that we kind of talk about it is that,
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: This subconscious is like a constant flow of water that
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: goes into your brain. And then you create the stories like, oh,
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: if I'm in a relationship, I can't get too close.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: And you develop all of these ways of working, these
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: neural patterns that become rivers. And then when you clear
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: up the subconscious, those riverbeds dry up. But every now
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: and again, and so you've now got the subconscious clear
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: of that particular belief, which is great. But then you
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: go through a period of stress where you get rejected
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: in a social circle and it rains a little bit
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: in the landscape of your mind and the rain goes
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: down the pathways that you've always used, which is I'm unlovable.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: And we call them creek beds. And this is defined
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: in psychology in different ways, but I think this is
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: schema therapy.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: I think it's along those lines.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: So for me, this is like, still on your stuff.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, so my hypothesis is I'm unlovable. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: then I keep getting supporting evidence, right? So my hypothesis
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: gets confirmed through observation, research, N equals one research. I've
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: got all this data that says that my initial thought
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: is true on my initial idea. And so now this
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: becomes a CAM science. This is actual science about me.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: And what we know now through all this, through this
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: hypothesizing and testing the hypothesis and you know, being at
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: the front line and analyzing the data is it is true.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I am unlovable.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: And that's not a thought or an idea. That's an
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: ingrained rock solid belief, right?
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: And so every situation you're not thinking I'm unlovable. In fact,
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: in my relationships, I would find how they're not lovable
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: so that I could protect myself. Like I wasn't thinking
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: that I'm unlovable. I would just go, Oh God, I'm
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: not sure about this and whatever it might be. So yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: That took... And because I'm not a very.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: I didn't really understand my feelings at the start of this.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: I had to learn how to feel before I could
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: actually go back and feel the old feelings. And that
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: took quite a bit of effort for me to actually
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: really be able to sit and feel, which was a
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: whole other game as well. Anyway, so the feeling and
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: then the subconscious. And then we have these creek beds,
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: these patterns. And the whole idea, the process now becomes
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: the creek bed process, which is.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: Every time I catch a thought process of I'm unlovable,
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: I write.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: It down and I go, great.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: Oh, someone said that, you know, the group that you
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: were just talking to, they're a little bit flat today.
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: And so that would water on my landscape. Water would
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: flow down the unlovable pathways. And I go, Oh, and
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: previously I'll just go, Oh man, I just still haven't
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: resolved this problem. Like I'm still just going back through
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: the same loop. But what's different now is that when
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: I actually go to, um, do I think that that's true?
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: Do I think that it's unlovable? I go down and
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: because I've repaired that bit, um, I actually feel loved deeper.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: But my surface still thinks is programmed to think I'm not.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: And so when I go down to that deeper thought
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: process of I'm, I'm actually lovable, I think, Oh, great.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: And so what is actually happening then?
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: And then I go, oh, well, I presented and there's
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: a whole lot of other factors that could cause their
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: flatness or whatever it might be. But there's a number
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: of things that I can do right now to lift
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: them back up, whatever it might be. And so it
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: becomes a really proactive, like things are okay. And even
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: to the point where people then come up afterwards and
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: they go, oh, Cam, that was really great. And then
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: the big thing that you have to do, which is
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: the thing that I felt really awkward about is that
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: it's not just about experiencing that I'm loved and seeing
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: evidence for that, it's celebrating it. And so we have
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: creep van circles in our team of people that all
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: get this stuff.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: And it's the job of the person.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: To write in and say, hey, guys, I thought that
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: this presentation was going bad, but then I got all
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: of these compliments and I just saw the impact that
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: I had.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: Like this, I'm totally lovable.
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: I know it sounds like a totally self-indulgent thing to do,
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: but the whole idea of that, everyone gets around and goes.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Cam, yeah, you did.
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: Like, even if it's just, we're doing this for the
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: purpose of the creek beds. And the idea is that
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: then you start filling in the creek beds so that
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: over time you do that 10, 12, 15 times.
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: And, and then you get a bit of a flat
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: audience again.
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: And the creek bed isn't even there for you to
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: entertain that thought in the first instance this is just
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: neuroplasticity our brain and its networks and things like that
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: but uh but the really important part of it that
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: i didn't do for a long time was actually celebrate
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: when my brain didn't do the old negative pathway and
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: so that's when that's what these creek beds are all
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: for and then you add in purpose into that and
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: and i don't know if you want to pause me
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: there but i'll keep carrying on otherwise.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: I can talk about this like yeah i'm just thinking
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: so what i think too is But we need to
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: have the capacity and the maturity and the okayness, that's
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: a word, to be loved by some but not by others.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And that's okay.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: And the truth is you will do shit presentations and
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: that's okay. And you will fuck up and you will
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: cause people pain unintentionally, hopefully not many, hopefully not often.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: But I think the idea that sometimes I will fail
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: or I will look like a dick is or Cam
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: will tell me that I over-explain and repeat myself, which,
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: by the way, is quite insightful because I do. So
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I take that on board. And I could, as you
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: were saying that, I was thinking some listeners are like, yeah, Cam,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: fucking tell him.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: He repeats himself.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: But you've got to be really okay with that, like
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: all jokes aside. That's probably quite good insight for me.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: So I can go, well, fuck you, Cam. I feel
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: unloved because blah, blah.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Or I could go, is there any wisdom or truth
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: in what he's saying? And the answer is yes.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: So my challenge is to go, I know he was
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: kind of fucking around, but he was kind of being
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: a bit true because he wouldn't have said it or
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: it wouldn't have come to mind.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't change our friendship or status, right? But
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: So I feel like there's this– component also in the
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: real world the real practical world where yes you don't
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: want to get in your own way and you do
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: want to love yourself in that healthy way but also
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: you've got to be able to say i fucked that
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: up the end i'm just going to own it doesn't
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: mean i'm a bad person doesn't mean i'll fuck up
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: next time but and also i think people are scared
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: of rejection people are scared of pain. They're scared of failing.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: They're scared of being embarrassed. And so we do anything
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: to try to avoid those things, you know, and I've
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: done that forever because I'm wildly insecure, but I can
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: feel myself doing it.
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Uh, and then there's that, well, sometimes Craig, you will
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: be embarrassing the end. So try not to be that
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: and try not to do that. And sometimes, uh, won't
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: like you, but the person next to them might love you.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Both of those are okay.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Rather than trying to be.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Awesomeness personified, I go, well, why don't I just be
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: the best me that I can be? And why don't
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I step out on stage knowing that statistically somebody might
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: not enjoy this or me, but just be the best
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: version of me anyway and whatever transpires does.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: And also at a layer, a different layer to that
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: as well, is that the only reason that you questioned
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: or that we questioned that we loved anyway was because
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: of something that often innocuous that happened when we were
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: very young.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: Like that's where the belief actually forms.
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: If that didn't happen and if we don't get the
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: evidence for it, we don't even get to the point
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: where we're thinking.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: I'm lovable or not.
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: And then, as you're saying, writing the ups and downs
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: and things are going to go well and taking it
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: on as data and taking it on as learning and
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: whatever it might be, that's when it becomes really useful.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: And the growth mindset is very, very useful for all
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: So the, the, and I know it gets a little
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: bit wooed, but it is very true is that just
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: by virtue of being alive, by virtue of having a
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: soul or whatever you want to call it, that's sort
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: of a consciousness that like you are enough just as
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: you are right now. It's just, it's only ever things
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: that we learn that tell us that we're not. And
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: those things can be unlearned. And as you can see
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: from the Carlton football club, that can be unlearned incredibly quickly.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Um, in particular settings.
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: But I will say also just on your lovability is
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: that I deliberately repeat myself in different ways when I'm
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: doing a talk because different people hear things in a
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: different way. So it was only, I actually do exactly
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: the same thing. And I think it's a speaker skill
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: because some people don't get it the first time that
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: you say it.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: You need to say it a second time. You need
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: to say it a third time.
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: So for those viewers out there that get bored by
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: the repetition, you can just be thankful you got it
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: the first time.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Self-esteem back intact. Thank you very much.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I find interesting is I
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: used to have a story about my dad.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: You had one about your mum.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: And it was also that because my dad was quite tough,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't feel always like I intellectually knew he loved
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: me because there was evidence for that. But I often
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: didn't feel very loved, right? But nonetheless, you know, I
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: had all these experiences and there's my interpretation of this
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: is he doesn't love me because if he did, he
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: would do this, but he doesn't, he does that.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: If he was a dad who loved me, right, I
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: had all my stories.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: But then I had a chat with somebody, I can't
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: remember why, but there was this moment in time where
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: I was compelled to go back and try to get
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: out of my head, my needs and my stories and
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: my insecurity and try to understand my dad as a child, right?
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Like what was your dad like as a one or
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: a two year old? What was his life like as
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: a three, four, five year old? What was it like
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: growing up in the Great Depression in the Second World
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: War with six boys in the family, two parents, eight
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: people on one income with no money? for whom survival
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: was literally a day-to-day proposition, where he didn't get anything.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Like my life was Disneyland compared to his life. And
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: then when I looked through that lens of what my
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: dad's upbringing and his reality and his experience and what
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: was hard for him, I went, oh, I'm literally creating
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: these problems because my dad has given me the best childhood.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: compared to what he had. I mean, I had my
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: own bedroom. Nobody had their own bedroom then.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I had a bike.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I had a skateboard. I had three meals a day.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: I went to a great school. I had friends.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: I had no adversity.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I had to deal with nothing hard except, you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: schoolyard bullshit, which is not even really hard.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And so when I had.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: That reframe, I'm trying to understand my dad through my
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: dad's experience rather than the Craig Harper lens.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Something broke. And I just had way more.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Compassion and love and awareness around, oh, this is how
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: your dad loves.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Your dad doesn't, your dad isn't you.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: You know, that book that I speak about quite often,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: which I don't have shares in, but the five love languages,
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: which is really kind of touches on a lot of,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: uh relation and psychology and communication kind of areas where
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: it's just like my dad's love language was very much
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: doing things for me but what i wanted was a
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: fucking hug and a compliment right but he was being
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: loving because he never had things done for him So
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: his love language to me was supplying things and giving
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: me a stable childhood where I lived in a great
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: house with stuff and food and things. And he did
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: all of that. Now, I know in his mind and
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: in his paradigm, that was being a loving father. And
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: he did that extremely well, right? But when you're on
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: the outside looking in and you're judging someone else's behaviors
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: or emotions or psychology through your lens.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Which is called, what's it called?
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: It'll come to me. There's a name for it. But yeah,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: you fuck things up and you start to create your
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: own pain.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: That's very, very cool.
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: The thing and so profound to be able to put
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: yourself into their shoes, and that's often what happens when
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: I would go back to these places, I would see
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: that mum was 100% doing her best with the skills
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: that she had, with the tools that she had. What's
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: really interesting about this, I think, and what's really important
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: is that as I've been digging into this a lot
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: more with myself and doing it in combination with others.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: As well, is that.
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: while consciously I understand that the love language was different,
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: still it created hurt in me.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: And feeling the hurt, even though you can rationalize this
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: isn't actually, it wasn't intended, the action of it still hurt.
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: And I had a massive personal experience with this recently
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: because I'd created this world of lack of integrity, essentially.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: And a way that I could just buffer stress.
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: I was pretty reliable for most things, but not all
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: things and not some really important things. I, as part
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: of that process, unprompted, I went to a couple of
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: my workmates and I said, I'd like to know how
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: my lack of trustworthiness in various elements has actually affected you.
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: And because I was having a conversation with my friend
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: And she was talking like she's probably one of the
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: more consciously elevated people that I know. She is constantly
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: just reprogramming herself and doing great things to.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: Navigate out of her staff and to stay in a
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: really good spot.
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: And she was still in a lot of pain from
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: her ex-husband who'd hurt her significantly.
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: And I was like, come on, like.
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: You just got to reprocess that and get rid of it.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: She's like, no, it actually has created pain. She hadn't
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: got there yet. She hadn't gone into it to really
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: resolve it. And it really dawned on me that even
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: though I've had really good intentions the whole way through,
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: because I've been a bit untrustworthy, it has still created
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: significant pain in other people. And them having the understanding of, oh,
• 47:41
  Speaker 5: Cam's just lacking some trustworthiness. There's still a part of
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: them that's saying, I just want people that are trustworthy
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: in my life. And it hurts them at a deeper level,
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: even if their brain can understand why it's happening. So
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: I asked them to give me feedback. And I got
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: 30 to 40 minutes off each of them of the
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: most harrowing feedback of my life, of just the pain
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: that they had been through over the last two years,
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: just the experience that.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: They've had at my hands, and just the... just been
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: completely innocent or not innocent, naive.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Oblivious.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Oblivious, naive to the impact that I was having. And
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: it wasn't enough.
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: it's still not enough to just know it.
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: You've still got to go back and feel it to
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: re to re narrate it. And, and, and this is
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: where I think where I've seen a lot of things
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: not resolve in me in the past is I mentally
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: get it, but I never went back to feel it again,
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: to understand it fully, to understand the impact that I'd
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: had on other people or they'd had on me and
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: And in some instances, you have to go back into
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: a feeling of, I hate that person again, so that
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: you can re-inspire the feeling so.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: That you can get rid of it.
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: Even though on the other side of it, you're going
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: to feel fantastic about them, but you have to go
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: into a place of anger and disappointment and frustration and
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: all of the things that actually were created in you
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: unconsciously for that then to release. And it's interesting how
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: much resistance that I had to go back there because
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: it's like.
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I get it.
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: Like everybody's living their journey and you know, this is
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: my journey and rah, rah, rah, rah. And it's all
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: meant to happen the way that it's supposed to happen.
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: But there's still a very real hurt that happened here
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: that I'd kind of blocked out. And so that's the
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: thing that comes up. You can have these conscious awareness
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: moments where, And, uh, and still the, the, the, the
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: injury site is still there and, and held and that
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: needs to go back and be readdressed. And I guess
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: I'm more talking generally, I'm sure you, you've done that
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: work harps, but the, um, that's, it's this really interested
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: layered thing where I can understand why people would hurt.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: So there's no hurt. It's like, yes, there's still hurt
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: down here. And I hurt, I hurt it fully.
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: I feel all of the pain and, And I can
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: live in both existences at the same time.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: I can go back and feel that hurt.
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: And yes, I can also still understand that it wasn't
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: intended and it was all understandable as well. And that, uh,
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: one of my, uh, actually is doing a great talk
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: on closing stress loops, which is precisely about that, like
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: sort of reprogramming and, and releasing that hurt so that
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: it no longer is there at all. So that was
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: one of the things was just floating around my mind.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: That's been really relevant for me as you were going
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: through that with your dad.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: That's all fascinating. I, I'm interested in like, when we
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: say you hurt me, like, so Tiff and I get
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: on really well, but we had a point in time
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: where there was a bit of, I don't know, bullshit
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: both ways.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Like we were a bit, we thought this.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: About the other or that about the other or that
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: there were times where I might say something to Tiff well-intentioned,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't received as I intended it. And understandably,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: that created an issue or vice versa the other way. Anyway,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: there was a bit of like just less of a
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: connection than we normally have, which is a great connection.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: And anyway, we sat down and spoke about that and
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: it was all literally better in an hour, right? But
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: one of the things I think about is what role
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: do I play in the hurt, right? If Cam says
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: something to me and I go, you hurt me, Then
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: I go, well, you're in charge of my feelings.
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: That's one thing, which is not to say people can't
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: be pricks and hurt you. Of course they can. But
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: I think how much of that response, that personal response,
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: is like about do they want, are they setting out
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: to hurt me? No, I don't think so.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Is that their intention? I don't think so. Did I
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: get hurt, offended, experience some kind of pain?
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: Yes. What is that about? What is that about? How
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: much of that is created by me? Because you might
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: say the same thing to me and then one of
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: your mates who doesn't get hurt, who doesn't experience rejection
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: or any kind of emotional or sociological pain or In fact,
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: they hardly notice it. But you did and said the
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: same thing with the same energy. Then you say it
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: to me and all of a sudden I'm devastated. Well,
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: then you say, well, if Cam was wrong and Cam's
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: the problem, how come the other guy didn't have any
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: consequences like I do?
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: So I don't think it's one or the other.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: But I think when we say to someone, you made
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: me feel this, I don't think that's the whole story.
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: I think it's zero story. Yeah, I agree with you completely.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: No, you did something and this was my personal reaction.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Whereas I know because Tiff and I have a close relationship,
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: I can say shit to her quite often that I
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: would not say to somebody else because I know how
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: she is, I know how she works, and she says
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: shit to me. which she probably wouldn't say to anyone
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: else except Scott, where it's wildly fucking inappropriate. But to me,
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: it's just hilarious. But if she said that to somebody else,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: it's like, what the fuck are you saying that for? Right?
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: So there's the intent, right? Which I don't think many
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: people set out to actually hurt a person.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Some do, I'm sure.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: But then there's the What part of this experience that
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: I'm having right now, this emotional, psychological, hurtful experience, what
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: part of it, if any or all, am I responsible for?
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Is this about them or is this about me?
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Because I spent a lot of time getting hurt by
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: dad where dad had no intention that was bad. But nonetheless,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I was sad or hurt or rejected because he wasn't
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: doing or being or saying.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: What I wanted, right?
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: So I was creating these negative experiences all the while
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: thinking I was just a fucking victim of this bloke
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: who just didn't understand me, who just was insensitive, all
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: those things, right?
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: And there's a bit of truth in both, but mainly
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: it was me. And I think it's very hard. Like
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: in general, when people have problems in relationships, there's very
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: few people come to me and talk about the issue
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: they're having with their partner or their boss or their
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: business partner or their friend, and they unpack the problem
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: and they say, by the way, it's mostly me that's
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: at fault.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: That never happens.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Whoever I'm talking with, they are not the problem. It's
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: always the other person. I'm like, It can't always be
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: someone else. Like you have to take a bit of
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: ownership of your own state, of your own feelings, of
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: your own reactions, of your own emotions.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Are people horrible? Sometimes. Are people nasty? Yes. Do you
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: think that your dad is consciously trying to hurt you?
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: No.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Is he meeting your needs? The ones that you want? Well,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: maybe not. But again.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: I compare my dad to his dad, who I knew
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: not for too many years, but I'm like, compared to
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: my granddad, Ron was fucking father of the century. So
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: I think it's also understanding at a deeper level beyond
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: what they did and how I reacted.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Or the you hurt me story.
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: Yes, I agree.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: And I am having this talk with my kids every
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: single day, and that is who's in charge of your feelings.
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: And it's always you get to determine how you feel
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: about things or like you can feel things, you get
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: to determine what story you tell yourself after that. And
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: the difference, and I guess this is where The nuance
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: in this for me is that ultimately you are fully
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: responsible for every single thing that hurts you because it's
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: your own expectations, conscious or unconscious that have been violated.
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: And as a baby, you have an unconscious, an unconscious fear.
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: preference to be loved and to feel safe. And if
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: that gets violated, we see it change in the physiology.
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: Like if you don't get fed soon enough, you don't
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: get fed enough. If you get smack, whatever the physiology
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: changes to a place of I'm calm and happy and
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: digesting to I'm no longer calm, happy and digesting. There's
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: been a shift because of environmental influences. Now, ultimately, if
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: the baby was a little bit more emotionally intelligent, they
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: could control their state, do some deep breathing and they
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: can get through.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: This lack of feed without a problem. But this is, it's,
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: it's these, uh, it's these deeper hurts.
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: That happen when we're unconscious. It's not about blame on
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: the other person. It's just that my preferences and expectations
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: were not met physically or emotionally and And I didn't
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: have the tools to understand what that was. And so
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: I've created another story on top of it that isn't
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: the real problem. And so what you'll see is when
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: people go back into that, you know, let's say that
• 57:56
  Speaker 5: I do have a problem.
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: With my mum.
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: I went back in and I got angry at my mum.
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: But what happens on the other side of that anger
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: is how much I love my mum. Like it's, it's,
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: it's not, it's, I was, I was angry because I
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: didn't express at that time just how I was feeling
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: and I didn't know how to resolve it. And I
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: was angry within myself because I didn't have the tools
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: at the time to be able to do it. It
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: is actually up to me how I processed it. Um,
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: but then we're not islands and you can purposefully make
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: a child's life very, very difficult and make them very,
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: very confused about who they are because we know that
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: when kids are young, um, they are monitoring the environment
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: for how do I survive? And they're constantly changing their
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: behavior to try and match that. And so there are
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: times between that zero to seven where how you show
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: up for your child unconsciously creates hurt.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: Now it's partly your actions.
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: But it's also because this child doesn't know how to
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: process these emotions yet. And that's their fault. You know,
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: at the end of the day, this baby is not
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: yet geared enough. And it's so, yes, it all comes
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: back to, I can process this out myself.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: I can resolve this myself.
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: Ultimately, I, the feelings that I have, the hurt that
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: I have, it's up to me as to whether I
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: hold onto that or not.
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: They are fully your responsibility.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: And then at the same time, it's true that people
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: in your life can inadvertently or purposefully re-inspire.
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: That hurt that, that happened unconsciously.
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: And if you don't process it at the time, uh,
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: or don't know how to take ownership or don't know
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: how to, whatever it is, then, then it can sit
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: there and be unresolved.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: And that's where a lot of the problems stem from.
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: So I agree. I agree. But the responsibility that we
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: have to each other is still huge.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: And the responsibility to ourselves because bad shit's always going
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: to happen to you and good shit. Some people will be, uh, nasty, horrible.
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: Some people will be undermining. Some people will celebrate your failures,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: all that stuff.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: But even then it's like, what's in my control? Well,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: not them.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: What's in my control? Well, most things that happen in
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: my life are not in my control. So there's a
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: lot that's in my control, but it's really very proximal
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: to me. I can't control what's happening over there or
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: you know, I can't control what people are going to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: say in an audience. I can influence what they might say,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: but I can't control their reaction or their experience. So
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: I think that being able to self-regulate and self-manage in
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: the middle of all of the stuff that we can't
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: regulate or manage is like the ultimate self-improvement, self-growth journey.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: It's like, yes.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: What I was going to say is that you in
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: front of a crowd, would know what's likely to.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: Offend some people and not.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: And you are using that intelligence to not step on.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: And you're not designed to be there to trigger people off.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: You're designed to make them receive the message with the
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: least amount of resistance as possible.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: So that your message can come through.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: And you'll manage yourself and manage the wording that you
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: use so that you are as little offensive as possible.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: And I do the same thing so that the most
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: amount of people can receive the message. And that's the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: responsibility that we all have to.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Each other as well. Like it's about.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 5: Uh, if I know that something is going to really
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: bother you because you haven't done the work and you're
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: not going to, and I can see that and that's okay.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 5: It's not my job to keep poking at it unless
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: that's the agreement that we have as friends.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: Like the agreement is I'm actually going to stay away
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: from the topic.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to bring it up unless he wants to,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: or I'm going to ask him in a different way,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: whatever it might be. We manage ourselves differently. And it's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: not about covering people, wrapping people in cotton wool. It's
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: also understanding that everybody is on a, on a different
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: level of their journey when it comes to how much
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: they can tolerate, how much work they've done. Some people
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: are very, very sensitive about everything and they need a
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: lot of love and they need a lot of support
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: and they need a lot of safety and they need
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: a lot of.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: No trigger for a while. But then when people get
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: more robust and.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: Tougher, um, They actually search for those triggers because they're
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: looking for them to process that next bit of stuff
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: as well. And, and understanding where somebody is at on
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 5: that continuum, because just cause you might get it doesn't
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: mean they're ready to get it. And, and it's, and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: this is the thing that we, you know, we often
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: do with kids. We just expect the kids are going
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 5: to get us, you know, and we should, they should
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: be acting like adults. And there's an unrealistic expectation on,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: on what we expect of our kids from time to time,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: or even the person that we're in a relationship with
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: or a friendship. So I completely agree that it is.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: Up to the person.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 5: And then there is also this very powerful effect that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: we can have by creating safety for everybody by understanding
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 5: where they're at and what that.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: Then can do to their ability to do.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: Their own work and to go deeper and to nut
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: those things out themselves. Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: That's funny.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: It's almost like the dichotomy is we want to learn
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: and grow and evolve.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: And become better, more robust, more resilient.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: But we don't want any criticism and we don't want
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: any discomfort or pain. We want to get muscles, but
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: we don't want to go to the gym, you know. Hey, mate,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: it's been great. Where do people find you, connect with you,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: follow you?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: It's you. Easiest way is Dr. Cam.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: Just search that on Google with Shea Group, S-H-A-E Group.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: And that'll have a webpage there with the general stuff
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: that is all the things that we do with corporates
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: and health professionals and schools and a lot of things.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: We're applying all of these principles to change the world
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: for the better. And then, you know, if you're at
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: the Gap Tavern in Brisbane, then that could be a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: place for some love to happen.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Principles for the principles, P-L-E-S, for the principals, P-A-L-S.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: See what I did there? I'm doing a gig next
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: week for principals.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: Good one.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I'll try and use some of your principals.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, lads.