Latest / All The Right Movies / The Empire Strikes Back (1980) | Ep. 16 - Part 1

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The Empire Strikes Back (1980) | Ep. 16 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

0:04
All the right movies. Luke Skywalker and Han Solo
0:08
rescued the Princess, destroyed the Death Star, but their story
0:12
didn't end there. Now, the creators of the biggest
0:18
smash hit of all time bring you the next episode in the Star
0:20
Wars saga, The Empire Strikes Back.
0:25
It's an epic of romance, of heroes and villains.
0:30
A big. New sprawling space adventure in
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the Star Wars saga The Empire Strikes Back, coming to your
0:43
Galaxy next summer. The Empire Strikes Back was
0:48
released in 1980s. One of the most anticipated
0:51
movies ever made, the second entry in the Star Wars saga and
0:54
continuing Luke Skywalker's journey to becoming a Jedi
0:57
Knight, the film was a box office smash and is now
0:59
acclaimed as one of the great movie sequels.
1:02
My name is John and with me today are Matt.
1:04
Hello. What have we here?
1:07
Anne Westie? That can't be.
1:10
That's impossible. Laugh it up fuzzball, because
1:14
all the right movies are back with George Lucas to talk the
1:16
Skywalkers, snow speeders and smooth talking scoundrels.
1:20
And you thought we smelled bad on the outside.
1:43
Hello and welcome to all the Right movies.
1:46
A bunch of stuck up, half witted, scruffy looking Nerf
1:48
herders. Obviously.
1:50
Obviously. And a podcast on classic and hit
1:53
films today. We've been here before, and
1:56
we're back in a Galaxy far, far away to talk one of the biggest
2:00
and most successful movie sequels ever made in The Empire
2:03
Strikes Back. Lovely.
2:06
Never tell us the odds, but this was always going to happen,
2:08
right? Of course it was.
2:10
How could it not? How could it not?
2:12
Before we head to Hearth or let's have a chat about Patreon,
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should we? We should.
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If you're listening to this, you're probably like Star Wars.
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Yep, that's in there. Also Jaws, creators of the Lost
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So to find out more and say no, please visit patreon.com/all the
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right movies. Also, some further news, we now
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have a growing YouTube channel full of video content with more
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to come. They are top 10 videos reviews
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of new movies like The Batman by the three of us.
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And Lukas interviewed Curtis Steiger's The Godfather of Jazz
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Yep, we're also going to be critiquing some all the classics
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on there too, which would be great.
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Speaking of Star Wars, I think the three of us are going to
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start with the Fund the Menace, right?
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That'll be interesting. Yeah.
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I can't believe I've got to watch that again.
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I know. I don't know why I agreed to
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that You. Want to grow the channel as much
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as possible, so if you've not yet, please subscribe and share
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it to. For now though, it's back to one
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of the good Star Wars films. Yes, it's The Empire Strikes
3:45
Back. So why are we talking about it,
3:48
Westie? Is it the best Star Wars film?
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I think it might be. I think it might be.
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I keep bouncing around but I'm not too sure.
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I watched it again this week and I'm like, this is definitely the
3:58
best Star Wars film. I absolutely adore it.
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I love it. I remember watching it when I
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was, I don't even know how old I was when I saw this one and
4:06
remember thinking that wow that's not happy ending.
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That. This is, this is miserable.
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I love this. Yeah.
4:14
This is the I think it was my introduction to that real kind
4:17
of like misery, misery of cinema, sort of like how nothing
4:21
works out at the end and Disney films can like just you can just
4:24
forget about them. I'm not interested in them
4:26
anymore. This is what I want more of.
4:28
And I think this is what turned us on to that, that whole kind
4:30
of emotion in cinema. And I think it has a real depth
4:33
and has a real emotion, even though it's a sci-fi film, You
4:36
know, it's a Star Wars film, but still, I mean, it has so many
4:39
themes and has so many things that it wants to say and I think
4:41
it says them really, really well.
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I think it's really well acted, really well directed.
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We really well shot. And yeah, not only one of me
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favorite Star Wars films, if not me favorite Star Wars film, but
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one of my favorite films. So I'm excited.
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Yeah, it's always been there for me, Empire.
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I remember seeing it many, many times, but have no memory of
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seeing it for the first time because I would have been too
5:00
young. I mean, what does it say?
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Everyone's seen it. It's influence.
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It's difficult to overstate. It's as popular today as it's
5:07
ever been. So I'm looking forward to the
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three of us getting into all of that and explaining why we think
5:11
it's endured so long. It's generally regarded as one
5:14
of the great movie sequels, the greatest movie sequel by many.
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So we'll be talking about that. And there's so much of that
5:19
stuff. George Lucas is always
5:21
interesting to talk about. Wesley, you're a huge fan of the
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big fella, obviously. Big, big fan, Yeah.
5:26
Couldn't drink, couldn't drink. Traffic.
5:29
Astonishing work again by ILM on the visual effects, one of the
5:32
most famous plot twists in the narrative, a cultural phenomenon
5:35
of a film. So, yeah, the world record for
5:38
the longest podcast is 36 hours. We've got that in our sights,
5:41
yeah. I've cancelled all plans for the
5:46
next three days. And that's why you want to about
5:50
The Empire Strikes Back. It is the first Star Wars film I
5:53
remember watching. I was very young and I've just
5:56
got this memory. You've been in the kitchen at
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home and watching on the tiny little portable TV we had there
6:02
and I was maybe 4, something like that.
6:05
I just remember being terrified. Dragged up you like my?
6:10
And I'll just remember being terrified of the ads because
6:12
there was so big and stomping all over the guys, and I knew
6:15
they were the good guys and the whole thing was scary.
6:18
It just makes perfect sense to cover it.
6:20
We've done Star Wars, so why not?
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Do you know the best sequel? And it just comes up time and
6:24
time again whenever other franchises, you hear the
6:27
directors or the actors involved make a sequel and they go, oh,
6:30
yeah, this one is The Empire Strikes Back of whatever.
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So it's still such a huge touchstone and it's a fact that
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as a sequel, it doesn't go anywhere you expect it to.
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It's a constantly surprising film.
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We'll get in all that. It's a film of like near
6:45
constant defeat without any resolution, and yet it still
6:49
works as a film. And it's the film that really,
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for me, it defines this universe and it introduces so much of
6:55
what Star Wars actually is in terms of characters and
6:58
concepts. It's going to be a great one to
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do. So The Empire Strikes Back was
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produced by Lucasfilm, distributed by 20th Century Fox,
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and released on May the 21st, 1980.
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Filmed on location in Finn's Norway and at L3 Studios,
7:11
England, it was directed by Irvin Kirchner, written by
7:14
George Lucas, Lee Bracket and Lawrence Kasdan and its stars
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Mark Hamill is Luke Skywalker, Harrison Ford as Han Solo,
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Carrie Fisher's Leah Organa, Billy D Williams as Lando
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Calrissian, David Prouzer's Darth Vader, Anthony Daniels
7:27
AC3PO, Kenny Baker's R2D2D2 Peter May.
7:30
He was tube and Frank Oz as Yoda there's.
7:33
Not one you could leave out, is there?
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Right. Should we do it then?
7:41
Yeah, let's do it. OK, Great.
7:43
Torn tones at the ready. Look out for Whompers.
7:46
We're picking you. The beginning of The Empire
7:48
Strikes Back. I mean, John Williams, Come on.
8:11
Yeah. Ripping off the Batman there.
8:16
We'll get to him, obviously. Always time for Williams, of
8:18
course. Yeah, yeah.
8:20
The first active Empire takes place entirely on the ice planet
8:23
of Hoth, as the rebels hide over an echo base from the Empire.
8:26
And we've got a couple of big sequences to get into.
8:29
The Battle of Hoth, where the Empire launch a full scale
8:31
assault on the Rebels is coming. But before that, we're with our
8:34
lead, Luke Skywalker, as he comes a cropper against a Wampa
8:38
monster. Steady, Hey, steady girl.
8:42
Hey, what's? The matter?
8:44
You smell something. After being reintroduced to our
8:56
old bodies, Luke and Han Solo, Luke is taken by a whomper and
9:00
when he doesn't report back to base, Han sets out to find him.
9:03
This sequence brings us tone tone, snow monsters, Luke using
9:07
the Force on the ghostly appearance of Obi Wan Kenobi.
9:12
Mine is the warmest place to hide according to John
9:14
Carpenter. But he didn't have a tone tone,
9:16
did he? How does it feel to be back with
9:19
Luke and Han Westy? It feels great to be back and
9:22
it's it's so nice when you hear Hans voice over the radio and
9:25
it's like, hey, nobody's like, yeah, I love it.
9:27
It's like. Yes, cry.
9:30
It's just like friends are back together.
9:32
This is amazing. And I just I I love that whole
9:34
landscape. I love the idea of Hoth.
9:36
I love the idea of like that ice planet.
9:38
It's just it is great. I mean, it's like half an hour,
9:41
40 minutes, isn't it Hoth? It doesn't feel like whatsoever.
9:44
It's just you're there for like most of the the like.
9:46
Well, definitely the opening of the whole film, but it did move
9:50
to so many different places. But I just find this just so
9:52
interesting. But I also love how angry Han
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Solo is in the opening of this film.
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He's angry all the way through, like nothing makes him happy at
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all. He's happy to be frozen in
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carbonite. To be fair.
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He's like, thank God. It's just like a relief.
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But this is just, no, it's great.
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I love the one for attack. I love the way that comes from
10:10
Norway. All the probes being sent down.
10:14
That's really cool. That's really interesting.
10:15
You have this sense of impending doom and you have all the
10:18
generals with like cough sweets, just gaffer tape at the tops,
10:21
which is fantastic. It's just a bunch of Strepsils.
10:24
So what the? Wow, Yeah, cough sweets.
10:28
It's never known. Yeah.
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So it's like, that's really good.
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And it's just like, I don't know, I just really love the
10:36
opening of the film. I think it's fantastic.
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It sets a scene, it brings the characters back.
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You see everyone you need to see when you need to see them.
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And yeah, it's great. That one protect just comes from
10:44
normal. What do you smell something?
10:45
Boom. And then it just kills the car.
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Yeah, it's like straight. It's really graphic, so.
10:49
Wow, it is, yeah. Great.
10:51
No, it's not. Whenever I see the first few
10:56
seconds of this, I always get a sense of the excitement that
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must have been there for Star Wars fans to see this back in
11:01
1980. We get this great overhead shot
11:04
of a figure riding on this weird creature.
11:06
He takes his mask off and it looks Skywalker.
11:08
Great reveal. The costume design on both Luke
11:11
and Han is fantastic by the way. Especially Hans Parker when you
11:15
see. That haircut, you're like, yes,
11:18
beautiful. My favorite thing about this
11:23
whole sequence though is just how angry Han is, mostly for no
11:26
reason having to go with everyone he talks to.
11:29
He shouts at Chewie when he's doing his best fixing the
11:32
Falcon. Then he goes into the control
11:34
room and has a bust up with layer three.
11:35
People try to tell him that looks missing and how does a pop
11:38
at him just put his hand over his mouth.
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Then he asks that officer if he's seen Luke and is really
11:43
rude when he says he hasn't. Then when he gets on his torn
11:46
tone some of that guy just trying to help says Sir your
11:49
torn tone will freeze before the 1st marker and hand leg and
11:52
it'll see you in hell. Massive overreaction.
11:55
Why? Don't you go check, it's getting
11:58
dark out there. Getting everyone told but yeah
12:05
the torn tones are great. The wombat looks great.
12:07
I love that shot and says cave where we see it sitting down.
12:10
Some of that creature looks brilliant.
12:12
That and great to see all the characters again, even if Han is
12:15
so mad he could spit. Yeah, he's so angry.
12:18
It's great, man. I.
12:20
Really love the writing in Howard Re establishes these
12:23
characters, particularly Han and Layer in the base because
12:25
straight away you can see their relationship has developed so
12:28
much from the end of Star Wars. Because as soon as he enters
12:31
that control room she is glaring daggers at him which I find
12:34
really funny. They've not said a thing to each
12:36
other in the look she gives them.
12:38
I. Think that's just an art
12:40
imitating life though, to be fair to somebody.
12:42
Oh, I think that's definitely fed into a.
12:43
Real life relationship, yeah. Yeah.
12:45
Absolutely, because she is really pissed off about
12:49
something. But you also see it's that makes
12:51
you. She is disappointed that he's
12:53
leaving, both on a personal level and because we see here
12:56
how important he is to the rebellion.
12:57
Now he is part of them and he's going to be a big mess.
13:00
But love our way isn't filled. He knows why she's hurt, which
13:04
is why he says, you know, we need.
13:06
What about you need and I just love all that dialogue to have
13:10
is the continue argument into the corridor.
13:12
It's really funny when he calls a yes, your Highnessness, that's
13:16
a great line. That line.
13:18
You know, when she would talk, I'll just assume kiss a Wookiee.
13:21
And it's great because having this proper like domestic bust
13:23
up in the corridor and every other rebel is just walking past
13:26
them, just doing the job, having supplies, getting all of what
13:29
they need to do. No one's giving them the
13:30
slightest bit attention. This must just happen every
13:33
single day, probably about three times a day.
13:35
Also just having a big row in front of everyone.
13:38
Yeah, it's just them on it again, but that.
13:40
Guy walks through the middle of his heart and then steps back.
13:44
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, great.
13:48
Yeah, it's. Really funny all.
13:50
Of the outdoor scenes on the hearth were filmed in Fins
13:52
Mountain village in Norway and they had some issues when the
13:54
area was hit by its biggest snowstorm in 100 years,
13:57
avalanches and everything. Wow.
13:59
Classic Lucas looked at hanging over from the first film, The
14:02
Brian De Palma curse. Normally that storm would have
14:06
halted filming, but Evan Kirchner thought it was a chance
14:08
to shoot the scene where Luke wonders through the snow after
14:10
he's escaped the Wombas cave. He spoke to Mark Hamill, who
14:13
said he would do it, and Kirchner sent him out in the
14:15
snow by himself while he stayed in the hotel and filmed him from
14:19
there. Outrageous.
14:22
Right up. The other thing I like those how
14:25
we get to see Obi Wan Force Corsi for the first time telling
14:29
to go to Dagbar and then obviously you'll see him later
14:31
on on Dagbar itself with Yoda, but wasn't even one day's work
14:34
file again. So he turned up half eight in
14:36
the morning, was done by 1:00 in the afternoon.
14:38
And instead of taking a flat fee, he got a quarter of a
14:41
percentage point of the film's gross, which ended up making the
14:43
millions. So not bad for like half a day's
14:45
work. Yeah, paid millions for 4 1/2
14:48
hours worth. I tell you what, he's got some
14:51
nerve slacking off. Star Wars.
14:54
Yeah, not. Even bothered about looking like
14:56
he wasn't a haircut, he looks really fresh.
15:00
No, it was actually the final day of shooting as well that he
15:02
turned to the do his scene, so he stuck around at the rock
15:04
party to. Another first shot in the film
15:07
after the opening crawl as a Star Destroyer sending probes
15:09
out into space. The film originally started on
15:12
Hoff, which I can see from Kirchner's point of view, trying
15:14
to make get a bit more of a drama, trying to make it a bit
15:16
more of a kind of acceptable, less sci-fi.
15:19
But that's how it was written and put together by Kirchner,
15:21
which I can see. But Lucas changed it in the
15:23
edit. So we'll see the Star Destroyer
15:24
first. So even though Lucas is taking a
15:27
back seat, he's really not. He's like starters Dr. First.
15:30
That's how we got the first one. That work, that work in 77.
15:34
Do it again. Yeah, that also explains why the
15:38
opening shot the Star Destroyer is a bit unremarkable.
15:42
Yes, I did the opening shot start the.
15:44
Bottom of it, that's that's it. I don't see much of it at all.
15:48
So a good start of the film and good to be back in the Star Wars
15:52
universe then. It's great.
15:52
To be back totally your. Time title freeze before you
15:55
reach the first marker, then we'll.
15:57
See you in hell. After being introduced to our
16:00
main characters again, it's not long before the huge spectacle
16:03
comes in the Battle of Hoth, and that's what we're going to talk
16:05
about for our second scene 2. Are you all right?
16:08
Yeah. I'm with your own leader.
16:10
We'll. Send our food, I'll cover for
16:11
you. Coming around.
16:15
Watch that crossfire, boys. Having investigated and
16:18
destroyed an Imperial probe Droid and realizes the Empire
16:21
are on their way and the rebels beginning evacuation.
16:25
The Empire turned up before they completed though and launched a
16:27
full scale assault on the Rebel base.
16:29
The Battle of Hoth sequence brings those scout walkers, snow
16:32
speeders, and one of the most iconic images from the series
16:36
adults. How's this for battle sequence,
16:39
Matt? It's still just amazing, isn't
16:42
it? But watching it as an adult,
16:44
it's just so incredibly thrilling and exciting.
16:46
And the the flying through the legs and the tying the legs
16:49
around the tripping things over, it's just amazing.
16:51
And it but the bits that stand out for me is when Luke's snow
16:54
speeder gets hit and you get that really great behind the
16:56
shoulder shot. If I'm plowing into the snore.
16:59
Yeah. Because that always reminds me
17:01
if you've seen former Correspondent, that Hitchcock
17:03
film from the 40s. Oh, yeah.
17:05
Yeah. There's the scene now where the
17:07
heroes not from the escaping in the plane and get shot down in
17:10
the crash into the sea. And you get, and I think we've
17:12
tweeted this, actually, we'll get a very similar shot we have
17:15
of them plowing into the sea and the water bursts and the cabin.
17:18
Because The thing is that was like a really revolutionary
17:20
special effect back at the time that Hitchcock did.
17:23
And I'm just saying there's no way that Kirchner, who is a film
17:25
teacher, doesn't know that. So I think, of course, I think
17:28
this has to be a not the front correspondent, which I really
17:31
love. It definitely has.
17:33
That's like saying Tarantino hasn't seen 8 1/2 weeks.
17:35
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
17:38
He's watching it now. But there's that bit after he
17:45
crashes and does make me laugh because he gets out and there's
17:47
an AT stomping towards him so he, you know, gets his grappling
17:50
hook out straight up there. Could stop the lightsaber
17:52
grenade in boom, brings it down. But does being a Jedi mean you
17:56
can fall really high distances with no problem?
17:59
Because that must be about 50 feet balls.
18:02
Well, there has to be because, you know, he lands on his feet
18:05
and he just bounds away, no problems.
18:07
It's. Snowing it's.
18:08
Well, you know, his kneecap should exploded that, but no
18:11
problem, just runs where. But you know, I love it all the
18:14
same. It's really part of its
18:15
fantastic sequence. Yeah, I love the snow speeders
18:19
looking the rebels fly, especially as a point of view
18:21
shot from the side. The snow speeds when they're
18:23
flying in between the legs of the adults.
18:24
Brilliant. I think the storytelling superb.
18:27
How we're cutting between the battle and the evacuation where
18:29
Hans trying to get layout of the Falcon.
18:31
But it's the adults for me. They just look fantastic.
18:34
The design is off the charts for them and the stop motion
18:38
animation by ILM to make them move is incredible.
18:40
That's some of the most realistic looking stop motion
18:42
I've ever seen, I think. Yeah, the shot when you can see
18:45
three alerts at the same time on the screen and the snow speed is
18:47
swooping in between them. Yeah, that looks great today,
18:50
which is from 1980. Unbelievable.
18:53
Do you know what at that stands for?
18:55
All terrain armor transport of course.
18:56
You know nerd, correct? It does.
19:01
Do you? Know what at St. stands for.
19:05
Oh, is that scout transport? Yeah, Ultra in scout transport,
19:08
Yeah, there's one in Hoff that nobody mentions, but.
19:11
There is. What do you think of this
19:12
sequence? I think it's rubbish.
19:17
No, of course not. I think it's absolutely
19:18
fantastic. But then singing the adults just
19:20
coming just from like on the binoculars and they're just over
19:23
there and you just think, oh God, that's terrible.
19:26
And you know, when Nick's run through to his snow speed and
19:29
he's got his helmet, he's kind of like pushing people out the
19:31
way. And I was, I thought myself,
19:32
that's what I want to do when I grow.
19:35
Up. I know I just want to be a rebel
19:38
and like run to me snow speeder on a Monday morning and just be
19:41
like really up for it. But it didn't happen.
19:46
I always thought that's so cool. Imagine just doing that like
19:48
when you that's all you do. Like you fly a snow speeder and
19:51
you've got like your mate in the back.
19:54
And I think that the design of the snow speed is I had that
19:56
tour when I was a kid. It was absolutely fantastic,
19:59
just brilliant. I just love the way they've
20:00
taken all of the fights that you've seen and all of the.
20:03
The conflicts that you've seen from the first film, from outer
20:05
space to a real landscape that you can really understand, and
20:09
you're just like, wow, Star Wars is something else now.
20:12
Yeah, I can't think of many snow based battle scenes.
20:15
This is surely the most famous one.
20:16
I think that. Way eagles there?
20:18
Probably, yeah. Inside, yeah.
20:20
Inception. Yeah, well.
20:22
If Wesley did want to be rebel, he should have joined the
20:25
Norwegian mountain rescue skiers, because that's who
20:27
you're playing. The X was in the scene, the
20:28
plane of the rebel. I still.
20:29
Might still. Make them up on the drill,
20:32
that's what I'll say. And for their participation,
20:35
Lucas gave a donation to the Norwegian Red Cross.
20:37
Oh. Nice.
20:38
Very nice. Some of them guys are probably
20:40
in the film Monganala Guinness. Probably are all of them.
20:43
For $5,000,000 there's no probably about it.
20:48
We also hear A Wilhelm Scream in this sequence as well.
20:51
For anyone that doesn't know, the Wilhelm scream is like a
20:53
stock sound effect that's been around since the 50s and it's in
20:56
all the Star Wars films. I think it sounds like this.
21:00
So we had two in Empire. One's here.
21:02
When an adult blows up the Rebel blaster dish, do you know where
21:05
the other one is? Yeah.
21:06
I know where it is in the first one.
21:08
I don't know where it is in this one.
21:09
Yeah, I. Don't know where the other one
21:10
isn't here. In this one, it's when hands
21:12
frozen in carbonite and Chewy throws an Imperial office off
21:14
the ledge. Screen.
21:16
Yeah. So Luke's gonna in the snow
21:18
Speed. That is called Duck, which is an
21:20
unusual name, but you know where where that comes from, what he's
21:22
named after. No, I don't know.
21:23
Bearing in mind that Lucas was involved, right?
21:27
So what does he name everything after?
21:28
So anyway. The.
21:30
Assistant the assistant editor of an empire was called Julian
21:33
Durham and had a dog called duck so there you go Indiana Jones
21:38
chewbacard yeah ducks people dogs after a dog imagine known
21:43
like George Lucas and getting a new dog you have so much
21:45
pressure named. Yeah, after Star Wars came out,
21:49
all George was friends, board dogs.
21:53
Yeah, let's see, what's your dog called?
21:54
I'm not telling you, George, because.
21:59
As a battle sequence door, this one's pretty great, I think,
22:01
isn't it? Yeah.
22:02
Oh. It's fantastic.
22:11
And that is act one of The Empire Strikes Back.
22:13
There's a lot more to come, of course, but with those two
22:15
sequences, the one followed by the Battle of Hoth, Empire
22:18
pretty much picks up where Star Wars left off in terms of top
22:20
class spectacle. Yeah.
22:22
Then takes it somewhere completely different.
22:24
Oh yeah. The director.
22:31
The director of The Empire Strikes Back was ervin Kirchner,
22:34
known mostly in 1980 as an influential film mixture at USC.
22:38
In the director of some quirky indie dramas like The Hoodlum
22:41
Priest in 1961, The Flimflam Man in 67, and Eyes of Laura Mars in
22:45
78, Empire was a big shift in his career path, to say the
22:49
least. How do we think Evan Kirchner
22:52
does? Is that right To have our past
22:54
breaks back, Westie? I think Irvin Kirchner really
22:58
had a lot to do here and he's pretty underrated for what he
23:02
had to do. This is a big deal.
23:04
This is a big gig. Yeah.
23:06
This is like this is like stress on tools Like how can how can
23:10
you take over from what Lucas did in 77 and turn?
23:13
You've got three years later, they've got a script that
23:16
there's probably a little bit all over the place.
23:18
You've got characters that don't really want to be there.
23:19
You've got actors like Harrison Ford who pretty much don't want
23:22
to be there. You've got to try and make it
23:24
where you've got to try and find the humor.
23:26
You've got to take Star Wars, Star Wars somewhere else.
23:28
Then you've got to make A twist and you've got to make a turn
23:30
and you've got to make it believable at the same time.
23:34
And I think he does all that. I think he does an incredible
23:36
job with this. I don't know if and Lucas
23:38
couldn't have done it. I'll be honest, I don't think he
23:40
could have. But looking at Irvin Kirschner's
23:42
back catalogue, looking at what he's done, looking at where he
23:45
comes from, I mean, he just really understands film.
23:47
And he wanted to make this into a cinematic film, not just a
23:53
throwaway sci-fi film. You wanted to do something deep
23:55
with this. And me and the film have emotion
23:57
and it lives on. And I think it always will.
23:59
And I think that's testament to him and having that that that
24:02
real gutsy confidence to go against Lucas.
24:04
I know Lucas changed lots of lots of things in the edits and
24:08
had a lot to say about the story, had a lot to say about
24:10
the characters. But Irvin Kirschner, I think
24:12
anchors this film and makes it something totally different,
24:14
something that nobody else could have made it.
24:17
And I think he deserves more credit than he gets for that.
24:19
I think people, more people should know who Irvin Kirschner
24:21
is because of what he did on this film.
24:23
That's it's a massive deal. Yeah, considering his
24:25
filmography before Empire, I mentioned some films there, it
24:28
must have been more hell of a shock to people when Irvin
24:30
Kirschner was announced as the director of Star Wars 2.
24:33
Like who? Who?
24:35
Who? But based on that filmography,
24:37
the stuff he's expecting to handle well in Empire is the
24:39
drama. I think the Han Leah love story,
24:42
the Luke Vader family opera. And he does those beats all land
24:45
massively and all feel powerful. But the party might expect him
24:48
to struggle with the action, the spectacle.
24:50
It doesn't show it all that he's got no experience with those.
24:53
We talked about the Battle of Hoth and it's brilliant.
24:55
We will talk about the space battles and lightsaber fights
24:58
and they're brilliant. The tone's fantastic too.
25:00
Everyone says Empire has the darkest Star Wars film, and it
25:03
is. But to me, it's also the
25:04
funniest Star Wars film. He bounces the comedy in the
25:07
drama incredibly well, which isn't easy to do.
25:09
Just look at The Last Jedi, where the tones all over the
25:12
place. To me, yeah, it's rock solid.
25:14
The comedy never undermines the drama.
25:16
And that's Kirchner kind of being easy with the mega and
25:19
Lucas understandably checking everything over all the time.
25:21
But clearly the word together really well, I think.
25:24
Brilliant word by Irving Kirchner for me.
25:26
He's made a stone cold classic of a film.
25:27
What can you say? Yeah.
25:29
I think Kirchner knew where he needed help with the action
25:31
sequences and knew that George Lucas could come in and use
25:33
that, and he used them for that and then just said, hold on a
25:35
second, I've got this. But yeah, you have that bit.
25:37
I've got this bit. And it would, it does.
25:39
It works so well together it. Does I'm mad?
25:41
What about you? Yeah, I just, I was trying to
25:44
put myself like in a George Lucas head spear.
25:47
See, like he's made the biggest film of all time.
25:51
He's got the secret Corner, which he knows everyone's time
25:53
to see. He doesn't ask his best mate
25:55
Spielberg to do it. He asks an old teacher to do it.
25:58
He would then turns into film. I would say it 10 times better
26:01
than what Lucas did. And like what?
26:04
What was Luke's reaction to that?
26:05
Like what the hell? I think I experienced so much of
26:08
his career after this because it's such a bizarre choice.
26:11
But look, I would it turned out because for someone with like
26:14
you said on 0 experience and handling special effects
26:17
sequences or action set pieces, he just put them together like
26:20
Spielberg. For me that with just that
26:22
confidence and I think this. Was a huge influence on
26:26
Spielberg. Oh yeah.
26:27
Huge had. To be because every one of those
26:29
scenes is so sharp and so fine-tuned.
26:32
But I think he can tell this is a guy who teaches film because I
26:35
think he he has looked at this in a very methodical way in that
26:38
he's taken the story apart and he understands the mechanics of
26:42
storytelling. So he knows how to put this
26:44
together in an interesting way, how to keep it tonally level all
26:48
the way through. And I think he's also very, very
26:50
much an actors director as well, because I think every
26:52
performance in this film is a vast improvement on what we get
26:56
in Star Wars. And I think that's because
26:58
Kirchner, I don't think he cares for one minute about the stuff
27:01
that Lucas cares about. I don't think he cares about the
27:03
mythology. What he cares about is how do I
27:05
make this story work? How do I get these characters to
27:08
function and give them a compelling story?
27:10
And ultimately, if you compare this to Star Wars, I think,
27:13
well, Lucas said there was he took all these amazing
27:16
characters, all these pieces and he put them on the chess board
27:19
in the first film. But Lucas only knows how to play
27:21
a draft. He only knows like basic moves
27:23
out of all of this. Kirchner knows how to play a
27:26
chess, and that's the difference between the two films for me.
27:29
Yeah, nice. Well.
27:31
After the unprecedented success of Star Wars, the sequel was
27:33
always going to happen. Wasn't.
27:36
It Oh yeah, we. Talked on our Star Wars podcast
27:38
episode. What about the deal Lucas made
27:39
with 20th Century Fox to grant him control of our merchandise
27:42
and sequels? So in order to keep that
27:44
control, Lucas decided the finance empire himself.
27:48
The initial budget for the film was $18 million, and Lucas
27:51
bankrolled it with a combination of his own money he made from
27:53
Star Wars and by taking our bank loan.
27:56
I mean, that's the dream, isn't it, for a creative film maker.
27:58
Total independence and studios with full creative control over
28:01
everything. Yeah, yeah, we.
28:04
Also taught in our Star Wars podcast how the production of
28:06
that film left Lucas hospitalized with stress and
28:08
exhaustion, and because of that he wasn't at all keen on
28:12
directing Empire. So we started looking for a
28:14
director. Evan Kirchner was hired pretty
28:16
quickly, but before that, Lucas did consider another well known
28:19
director. Have you heard who that was?
28:21
And it wasn't Spielberg. OK, I'm.
28:25
Sure, I know this. Coppola.
28:26
Because he was friends with Coppola, wasn't he?
28:29
Well, according to Paul Verhoeven, he was invited for a
28:32
meeting with Lucas and the producer Gary Kurt to talk about
28:35
directing Empire. Hoeven said that he turned up
28:37
with this meeting with the court of his new movie called Spetas,
28:40
which is apparently like a sexually explicit version
28:43
version of Grease. That's outrageous, Hoevens.
28:46
Director of Empire. Would that have worked do you
28:48
think? It's really funny because
28:50
Kirchner directed RoboCop too. I know.
28:52
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
28:54
So. That's I don't think it would
28:56
have his hand getting chopped up.
28:58
Yeah, blood spurred not the end of it was Yeah.
29:01
Half of his face off Clarence Bottlegar is Darth Vader.
29:07
Well, after his screen spent as Lucas and Kurt for Hovind said
29:10
that he never heard from them ever again.
29:12
Wow. Kirchner had been George Lucas
29:16
lecturer actually, when he was a film student at USC, and Lucas
29:20
regarded him as a mentor figure. So Kirchner was already 57 at
29:23
the time. But Lucas said to him, you know
29:25
everything a Hollywood director is supposed to know, but you're
29:27
not Hollywood, Which is brilliant because that's true.
29:30
Yeah, he did turn Lucas down the first, though, because he said
29:33
he had no interest in doing a special effects movie in B He
29:36
thought Star Wars couldn't be topped anyway.
29:37
But it's got his agent had a conversation with him and that's
29:41
when he changed his mind. I'll bet he did, saying the
29:43
dollar sign today. Kirching, I mentioned the
29:48
production issue Star Wars had there.
29:50
An Empire wasn't without with problems either.
29:52
Have you heard much about this? I've heard a fair few.
29:56
Yeah, there's, there's there is a fair few.
29:57
Well, firstly, the production started late.
29:59
Stanley Kubrick had filmed the shine in the Elstree and a fire
30:02
had burned the set down. So this meant a start date for
30:05
Empire was delayed by about three months with the being
30:08
follow follow up with Star Wars that the contend daily with
30:12
newspapers trying to infiltrate the set.
30:14
The Sun hired helicopters to fly over the set taking pictures.
30:17
Luckily, almost all of it was filmed indoors office.
30:20
Yeah, plot leaks were a big deal on the film.
30:22
Lucas kept tabs on the cast, and at one point you had a report
30:25
which read Harrison Ford one leak.
30:27
Carrie Fisher one leak. David Prowl's 9 leaks.
30:34
We'll get the pros and his plot leaks later on, yeah?
30:37
Really trustworthy pros. How many things do you know?
30:41
9 things you want to tell us All that things.
30:48
And the production was further delayed by snowstorms, as you
30:50
said, John, and bad planning by producer Gary Kurtz.
30:53
And one of the second unit directors, John Barry, collapsed
30:56
on the set and died from meningitis, which is really
30:59
funny as well. Yeah, I know a.
31:01
Visit by Prince Charles that had to be cancelled as well.
31:04
Good at. Least wasn't Prince Andrew.
31:11
The Empire does strike back. There's a story as well where
31:16
Frank Oz who voiced Yoda was visited on the set by Holly
31:19
Corkless who would work with ours as a director on the Muppet
31:22
Shore, and Lucas grabbed Cokeless on the set and
31:24
instantly offered him the job of a second year director because
31:27
it was so far buying schedule. Just getting everybody in there
31:33
was screwed. Then after production wrapped
31:37
Lucas saw the first cut and called it disastrous.
31:40
Which I would imagine means it would be amazing.
31:46
And then Lucas re edited the whole movie to which it it made
31:51
it no better. So they had to do extensive
31:53
reshoots and go through post production all again.
31:56
Like I want to see that first cup.
31:58
I think that'll be that'll be something else because it's just
32:01
pure Kirchner going. What do you think of this?
32:03
And Lucas is like, I don't think I'm ready for that yet.
32:05
Can I have more Star Destroyers please?
32:07
Yeah, well, the budget by this point had increased from
32:10
$18,000,000 to $30.5 million. And having paid for the film
32:15
himself, Lucas was basically facing financial ruin again.
32:20
He went back to 20th Century Fox and made a deal whereby they
32:23
would finance the increase in budget for a bigger cut of
32:25
profits. And that deal basically saved
32:27
the film from catastrophe and Lucas from going insane, I would
32:31
imagine. What a stressful time.
32:33
What a stressful time, making the Empire stress back the.
32:36
Thing is about that deal or Lucas got a massive favour from
32:39
Alan Ladd Junior who at the time he was head of Fox because what
32:42
Ladd did was signed away all the sequel to merchandise and rights
32:44
to Lucas who obviously on his ass was never going to say no.
32:48
And then when the shareholders found that out they kicked off
32:51
so a lad had to leave his job. The knock on effect was Lucas
32:54
took his next project away which was Raiders.
32:57
Which is why Raiders is a Paramount Pictures film, not not
33:00
a 20th Century Fox well. Right, right.
33:03
Just just for the better. Just you've got that mountain.
33:06
Well, exactly. Yeah.
33:08
What's he going to do? Spotlight.
33:16
Yeah, a lot did Lucas one hell of a big favor there all that as
33:19
well because Cooper going to set the shining down crazy.
33:22
Well, he. Didn't personally.
33:26
Well, despite all those enormous problems, Empire was a massive
33:29
success, and as director, even Kirchner gets a lot of the
33:32
credit for that new award recognition.
33:34
Do you know who won Best Director at the Oscars that
33:37
year, Matt? Yes, you do, Matt.
33:39
What year? 1980. 81 So Robert Redford it.
33:44
Was. Unbelievable.
33:46
Yeah. Ordinary people.
33:47
Unbelievable. Take us on this boy.
33:49
Man, amazing. Lucas did ask Kirchner return
33:52
the direct return of the Jedi, but he said no, not surprised
33:56
after all that. No, I'm.
33:58
Pretty good, read the script. How about as well?
34:01
Instead. And actually, he only directed
34:04
two more Hollywood films after Empire.
34:06
Do you know what? They were right.
34:08
Never seen never again was never seen ever again before.
34:10
It would have been, wasn't it 60s?
34:11
No, no, that was 1983, Sean Connery's final outing.
34:14
Bond Yeah, so never seen ever again was one.
34:16
Never seen Ever Again and RoboCop 2 RoboCop.
34:19
Two in 1990, yeah. Yeah.
34:21
Sadly, Evan Kirchner passed away in 2010, and when he did, George
34:25
Lucas had this to say about him. The world has lost a great
34:28
director. When I think of Kirch, I think
34:31
of his warmth, his thoughtfulness, and his talent.
34:33
Evan Kirchner was a true gentleman in every sense of the
34:36
word. Beautiful words.
34:38
It is the. Cast.
34:45
Irvin Kirschner was a new addition to the Star Wars
34:47
family, of course, but not so with the cast.
34:50
All of the main cast returned from the first film, and we're
34:53
going to talk about our three main heroes and main villain.
34:57
Carrie Fisher's Princess Leia, Harrison Ford is Han Solo, and
35:00
David Prowse and James Dale joins us.
35:01
Darth Vader are all coming up, but we're going to start with
35:04
our lead, Mark Hamill at Luke Skywalker.
35:06
You. Have learned much, young one.
35:13
Our protagonist returning from Star Wars, Luke goes on another
35:16
adventure in Empire from almost being eaten by a whomper through
35:19
meeting Yoda and being trained in the ways of the Force.
35:22
He ultimately loses his hand and a lifesaver due to Darth Vader
35:25
in the climax of the movie. Yeah.
35:27
Worse nor that though, he kisses his own sister.
35:30
Yeah. And is really proud about it as
35:33
well. I.
35:34
Smoke about it. Hands behind the head, What do?
35:39
We think of Luke Skywalker here and Mark Hamill in the role.
35:41
Wesley. I think Hamill's great in this.
35:44
I think he understands the assignment.
35:47
He comes back, he's got a lot of problems because he's got to
35:50
just deal with puppets for most of it. 80% of it listen to no
35:54
one else to act with apart from Yoda, which there's the bulk of
35:57
the film for him. But when he is with other
35:59
people, he has got that charisma.
36:00
He has got that, you know, he knows who Luke Skywalker is now
36:03
and so do we. And it's very confident
36:05
character, a very confident performance.
36:07
And you just you want that in a hero.
36:09
And I think he absolutely nails it.
36:10
I don't, I don't think any part of this.
36:12
I mean, it could be so cheesy. It could be so like over the
36:16
top. And but when he's like saying
36:18
no, when he finds out, you know, the twist and it's just you just
36:21
say, yeah, you're there. You buy it.
36:22
And you just see how tired he is and how much he wants to be
36:25
something that he doesn't understand what he wants to be,
36:28
doesn't understand where he comes from, what he's doing.
36:29
There's a lot of confusion with the character, and I think he
36:31
sells that really well. He sells the immaturity, that
36:34
kind of lack of patience when it's with Yoda.
36:36
I think that all really works. Yeah, I think he's fantastic.
36:39
He's fantastic to Skywalker. I would say it's a real kind of
36:43
step up from the Luke we saw in A New Hope and it's absolutely
36:47
necessary and brilliant and he's great.
36:49
Yeah, when we covered Luke on our Star Wars episode, I was a
36:52
little critical of him, saying he's too much of A goody 2 shoes
36:55
and a bit whiny and a bit one note.
36:57
Yeah, though that's all but gone.
36:58
And I think he's excellent. I mean, it's a continuation of
37:01
his story and it's a great story.
37:03
And Luke is really well written here as a character.
37:06
He's much more fleshed out than he is in Star Wars.
37:08
He's more conflicted mainly, but he's also a bit more selfish, a
37:12
touch more arrogant, a bit more like a real person.
37:15
And Mark Hamill playing him, I think he's brilliant.
37:17
When I watch Star Wars, he's perfectly fine, but it doesn't
37:20
surprise me that he didn't go on to have a big Hollywood career.
37:23
Yeah, it kind of does. He's fantastic in the light
37:26
Saber jewels and great in any scenes with you and R2 where he
37:28
is basically acting against puppets.
37:30
So yeah, I'm a big fan. Look here.
37:32
The best the card has ever been for me.
37:35
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely.
37:37
And. Mark, what about you and Luke?
37:39
Very much the same. I mean, it's like Hamble took
37:41
extract and lessons, isn't it? Between Star Wars and this,
37:44
because he's just so much better.
37:46
And that sounds harsh, but I think I'm going to say
37:48
essentially the same thing for the three leads because it goes
37:51
back to what I said about Kirshen and being an actors
37:53
director. I do think Kirshen needs a bit
37:55
of credit to you as well, because I think the performance
37:57
feels a lot more guided than it ever was by Lucas in in Star
38:02
Wars. But in terms of the right and
38:04
Lucas just got much more depth from which I think Hamill really
38:07
needs, and he appreciates it. He's not the little kid that we
38:10
saw three years previously. He has the weight of knowing
38:13
that he has the Force and he can't control it.
38:16
But he's not fully offered yet. You know, some people look to
38:18
him for leadership now, but he still doesn't know everything.
38:21
He is still too impulsive. Runs where when you order, tells
38:25
him to stare. So he's not the fully formed
38:27
hero yet. So I just find him as a
38:29
character much more interesting this time around.
38:31
And it's a better performance from Hamel because of that.
38:33
I mean, towards the end when when he does get the ultimate in
38:36
surprise and family news, he just absolutely sells the hell
38:40
out of that moment. You couldn't ask for anyone
38:42
better it better in that scene. So yeah, yeah, big fun of what
38:45
he does say because because like you John, I'm not a massive fan
38:47
of what he didn't. So I was, but here much much
38:50
better. Yeah, I'm always returning from
38:52
Star Wars, of course. So if you want to hear the story
38:54
of how he got the part of Luke, check out our Star Wars episode.
38:58
But he still had to do a lot of prep to return for Empire.
39:01
He had to spend four months learning karate, fencing and
39:04
Kendall to prepare for his stunts and action scenes.
39:07
Yeah, I can't take much karate in Empire Strikes Back, to be
39:09
honest with you. Exactly.
39:12
John Wick is. Swinging from vines.
39:16
Yeah, Hamel didn't always have a good time on set either.
39:18
His son was born during production and Hamel was given
39:21
the day off. But he was called back to the
39:23
set 9 hours after his son's birth to redo his shot.
39:27
And the shot was the moment during the Battle of Hoth when
39:29
he's about to get trampled on by the AT AT and jumps from the
39:32
snow speed AT to avoid it. He wasn't very happy and being
39:35
called back in and it got worse because in performing the stunt
39:38
he brought his thumb, which is ridiculous but anyone could have
39:41
done that shot. But actually, she was stunt
39:43
double easy. With a helmet on, easily, yeah,
39:45
Yeah. I know.
39:47
There was also an accident at the start of filming after
39:49
Luke's being attacked by the Womba, and we'll see him in the
39:51
banter. Tank full of water.
39:52
Yeah, just before Hamel got in the tank and mirror above the
39:55
tank shattered and huge pieces of glass tore down into the
39:58
water. It was that bad.
39:59
The cursion. I said if Mark had been in the
40:01
tank at the time he probably wouldn't have survived basing my
40:05
death. Yeah, going to full ends for.
40:10
His work on Empire, Mark Hummel won the Sutton Award for Best
40:12
Actor. He returned as Luke and Return
40:14
of the Jedi, then again in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.
40:18
We seem to agree, though, that Empire is his best Star Wars
40:20
performance. Definitely Empire is his best
40:22
Star Wars performance, I think. I think A New Hopes a little bit
40:25
too loose, and I think he's really pretentious and Return of
40:28
the Jedi too pretentious, yeah. Probably arrogant by then, yeah.
40:36
The next person we're talking about was another returning cast
40:38
member, Carrie Fisher, as head of the Rebel Alliance Princess
40:42
Leah Organa Empire. Is.
40:45
Still out there, I don't think It's not time.
40:46
To discuss this, the committee I am.
40:50
Not a committee. Now the leader of the Rebels,
40:53
Leah orchestrates the evacuation from Hoth, then joins Han, Chewy
40:56
and 3P1 on the Falcon, being chased by the Empire all the way
40:59
to Bespin before rescuing Luke and rejoining the Rebel fleet.
41:04
What do we think of Leanne Carrie Fisher in the film Matt?
41:08
Excellent. And again, like Hamel, she's got
41:11
more to work with in terms of material.
41:13
You know, like Luke, it's a different character now.
41:15
She's not but Princess anymore. Still in the teens who, you
41:19
know, could kick us a bit, but it was still, you know, quite
41:22
young. She's properly grown up in this
41:25
film, and she's more than anyone.
41:27
She's happy to take command. Like, I love that scene where
41:29
she's stealing out the evacuation orders to the pilots
41:31
because he can see not one of them is taken with anything less
41:35
than complete respect and authority.
41:37
She just dominates every scene that she has to, which is great.
41:41
And she's someone now who has the death of her entire planet
41:44
to still deal with, but she's not giving in to it.
41:47
She's still kicking ass, just still giving orders.
41:49
See, through all of Hans bullshit, she has Landor pegged
41:52
banged her right as soon as just meets him and Leah.
41:55
It's just that usual mixture of toughness but real sensitivity
42:00
when it's just her and Han and she lets it guard down around
42:02
him. And as he always got with
42:05
Fisher, really really funny when it's called for.
42:08
So very much like Hamill. The best Star Wars performance
42:11
from Fisher in this film. Yeah, I love Leah and I love
42:15
Carrie Fisher and she is really good in Empire, but the writing
42:18
of her as a character is probably my least favorite thing
42:21
about the film, to be honest. I mean apart from three PO just
42:25
generally, but. Generally.
42:29
In Star Wars, Leah is awesome, takes charge, possibly that's
42:32
about. And she's always right.
42:34
Yeah, she's written as two damsel in distress for my
42:37
liking. Too much of the film.
42:39
She's just there, it'll look pretty and get rescued.
42:41
She's supposed to be the leader of the rebel, the Lions.
42:43
But aside from a couple of scenes near the start, you
42:45
mentioned the math where she's imagine the evacuation.
42:47
She doesn't do any of that. I know it's 1980 and it's of the
42:50
time, but it feels like a bit of a betrayal of the character that
42:53
Lucas originally created. That bit when Lando was sleazing
42:56
all over and saying what have we here?
42:59
You really belong with us in the clouds and she just says thank
43:01
you. Then Han has to come and save
43:03
her. That's awful.
43:04
No way is Lea from Star Wars putting up with that shit?
43:07
No way. I mean, I still like her in the
43:09
film and Carrie Fisher is great, but give her more to do.
43:12
There isn't been love interest or being rescued by Han, right?
43:15
So yeah, I do like her in the film, but my biggest criticism
43:18
of the film is how he has been handled this time around, which
43:21
I think is this year. OK, interesting.
43:24
Yeah, I mean, that's totally fair enough.
43:26
But for me, I think she plays people a little bit more clever
43:30
than you give her credit for. And there's space there for her
43:33
to move into that space if she needs to.
43:35
And I think which is in these kind of different situations,
43:38
and the only person she cares about was Han all the way
43:40
through the film. And then Luke again when, you
43:42
know, she finds out he's in trouble.
43:44
And it's just she does have this depth and does have this weight.
43:47
And she is very much, I mean, even if this is 1980, there was
43:51
no one else with the real guts to do it like this.
43:53
This is a real kind of, you know, as much as you can do an
43:57
Ellen Ripley performance in 1980, that's as much as you can
43:59
do it. You know, she's got a gun.
44:01
She's blowing stormtroopers away.
44:02
She's kind of getting away at the end.
44:04
Chewbacca's having, you know, getting a hold of land on.
44:06
She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, get him.
44:08
That's great. But she is like, I don't know,
44:11
it's her position. And I think the whole Rebel
44:14
Alliance doesn't really know where it's going or what it's
44:16
doing, and everything's in disarray.
44:18
And I think she's the character that shows how much that whole
44:23
thing is in disarray, how there is little to focus on, how there
44:26
was the Death Star will blow that up.
44:28
That's what we need to do. And in this one, I think you
44:30
just she has that. She carries that whole kind of
44:33
confusion and carries it really well and that frustration of
44:36
like where we're going, what we're doing, what's happening
44:38
here. So I think she is fantastic.
44:40
I've always loved Carrie Fisher and I've I've loved her
44:42
especially in this film. I mean, in the first one, yeah,
44:45
you can see her and Hamill are just like, yeah, we're kids and
44:48
we're doing a Star Wars film, this one.
44:49
But like, yeah, but actors and we, you know, we'll portray an
44:51
emotion and it works. And she is really funny and
44:55
great and like, probably the first crusher I ever had and
44:59
always will be. Princess Leia, Empire Strikes
45:02
Back, that hair, that hairstyle. Amazing.
45:04
Come on. Well, when the crew all went to
45:07
Fins in Norway to shoot the outdoor scenes on Hoth with Luke
45:10
and Han, Carrie Fisher went with them even though she isn't in
45:13
any of those scenes because she wanted to spend time with the
45:15
crew, which is nice. Tell us just dedicated to the
45:18
whole time. Just say it's just this, this
45:20
real wait, like I've said. Yeah, and when they were filming
45:23
London, though, she was renting a house from Eric Idol of all
45:25
people, probably 1, even an idol organized a party so it was for
45:31
her house and fought some of the crew.
45:33
And then The Rolling Stones turned up as well, and well,
45:37
here we go now. It's apart, yeah.
45:40
No party till the stones there, according to Fish of the board,
45:43
a drink that she called the Tunisian table cleaner and they
45:46
ended up staying up all night. And the next day's shoot was the
45:50
rifle of Cloud City, which apparently is why she and Ford
45:52
look the way they do in that scene.
45:54
Yeah. Yeah, spaced out Yeah talk.
45:57
About being in the clouds. Party with the stones, I'll do
45:59
it. Keith Ritz doesn't be like
46:03
you've been out of space, have you?
46:04
Galaxy? Far, far away.
46:05
Try some of this. You.
46:08
Haven't. Been where I've been, yeah.
46:11
And during her last few days in the UK, Fisher also discovered
46:14
from a telephone conversation with her mother, Debbie
46:16
Reynolds, that someone had threatened to kidnap her.
46:19
Which is outrageous, but fairly believable because that probably
46:23
could have been me if I was old enough.
46:25
Where were you at the time? I'm not telling you.
46:29
I was behind your tiny telly in the kitchen.
46:32
So for the last two days, the last few days on the set, she
46:34
was assigned bodyguards just to make sure she'll be all right.
46:37
But terrifying stuff, man. Ridiculous Jack.
46:39
And Richard, the bodyguards, Yeah, the.
46:42
Kidnappers, probably. After The Empire Strikes Back,
46:47
Carrie Fisher returned as Leon Return of the Jedi, then again
46:50
in The Force Awakens in The Last Jedi, and also carved out a
46:53
career for herself as a writer and novelist, getting BAFTA
46:55
nominated for adopting her own novel Postcard from the Edge in
46:59
1990. Carrie Fisher sadly passed away
47:03
in 2016, but will always be remembered for being Princess
47:06
Leia. Absolutely, absolutely, 100%.
47:13
The Spencer Tracy's Leah's Katherine Hepburn, according to
47:15
Carrie Fisher, is Han Solo, played by Harrison Ford, and
47:19
he's the next cast member. We're going to look at in some
47:21
detail. Why?
47:22
You stuck up half witted scruffy looking nerf herder.
47:29
Who is scruffy looking? After saving Luke's life at the
47:32
star of the movie, Han finds himself romantically involved
47:35
with Leah before being captured by the Empire, tortured by Veda
47:38
and frozen in carbonite. Yeah, he's a scoundrel, isn't
47:42
he? Han Solo?
47:45
Harrison Ford? An Empire.
47:46
What do you think, Wesley? Well, everyone knows my stance
47:49
on Harrison Ford. That's completely honest.
47:52
I mean, I absolutely adore the guy.
47:55
He was like me, original hero, Indiana Jones, Razor, The Last
47:58
Talks, my favorite film of all time.
47:59
And I always say is he's just great.
48:02
He's just so watchable. He's just so enjoyable as a
48:04
character because of his frustration and because if he's
48:07
just so funny and his body language is great and he's just
48:11
got such a presence on screen and his hair is amazing and his
48:14
outfits are great. And I want to be Han Solo.
48:16
I don't want to be Luke. I want to be on.
48:18
So I want to blaster and I want like, I want to be like
48:20
Chewbacca there. And I want to fly the Millennium
48:22
Falcon. Like that's what I want to be.
48:24
And he's just so sick of this shit now, isn't he?
48:27
In this film? I just think he's just a great,
48:30
great character. Real Comic Relief.
48:32
I absolutely love forward in this.
48:34
If I was going to be anyone in my life it would be Han Solo and
48:37
Empire stretchback and just start bollocking people for no
48:39
reason. Great.
48:42
Yeah. I mean, he's fantastic,
48:44
obviously. Like Luke kind of feels more
48:46
fleshed out and rounded here. He's more than just knock tape
48:48
like he thought within Star Wars.
48:50
The pirate figure, he's super cool.
48:52
That blue jacket is great. Unreal, but he's.
48:55
Also a bit of a douchebag doesn't always know what he's
48:58
doing. One of the best livable rogues
49:00
I've seen in films I think for sure.
49:02
I mean we know from his later films.
49:03
Harrison Ford is excellent as a leading man and he's really good
49:06
at action as well. My favorite thing about him
49:08
though is his comedy chops. I think he's an excellent comedy
49:11
actor and I think this is funniest role.
49:14
Hanan Lee are like a comedy double act before the fall for
49:16
each other. I love it when the Falcon breaks
49:18
down and she's like would it help if I got I'm pushed and
49:20
he's really offended. Like it might.
49:24
It might. I love how much three people
49:27
annoys him because he knows me just as much.
49:30
But then when the drama comes later on with the frozen in
49:32
carbonite, he's not found one thing either.
49:34
Really sells that moment. A powerful, dramatic moment.
49:37
So brilliant stuff from Harrison Ford.
49:39
Certainly one of the best performances of his whole career
49:41
for me. Yeah, top three.
49:44
Definitely. Yeah, agreed.
49:45
I think out of the three leads, I think he is probably the one
49:48
who was happiest with this script and happiest working with
49:51
Kirschner instead of Lucas in terms of being directed.
49:54
Because we all know what he said about Lucas's writing and
49:57
directing technique that, you know, he likes him personally,
49:59
but you know, I don't think he was that impressed with how he
50:01
directed him. All of his reaction to three
50:04
pure when 3 pure basically cock blocks them and interrupt some
50:06
kissing. Yeah.
50:07
Thank you. Thank you.
50:09
Thank you. Very much.
50:12
Three people was like, you're welcome, Sir.
50:13
Yeah. This place, he's got great comic
50:18
traps. You get the cockiness, you get
50:21
the bravado, but he's given much more depth.
50:23
And I think what you really start to see is that underneath
50:26
that bravado, so much of the time he's just winging it and
50:30
saying what he can get away with and what he doesn't care.
50:33
He doesn't care. And obviously this film is the
50:35
one where that look fine he does run out from which which really
50:38
works as a bit of drama. And I think it's a it's really
50:40
interesting take on the character.
50:42
It develops him really well. And yeah, you can see that he
50:45
doesn't actually know as much about the Falcon as he likes to
50:48
pretend he does. Look at that bit later where
50:50
where 3 pure works out what's wrong when Hand doesn't and Hand
50:53
just pretends that he knew. Has to tell True.
50:55
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, really funny.
50:58
So yeah, complete agreement with you guys.
51:01
The thing out of all of all of his appearance is our solo.
51:03
This is easily the one that feels definitive for me.
51:06
Yeah, yeah, I. Mean there's a bit in the start
51:08
when he when the Hoth base and he just first comes back and you
51:10
see him and Chewbacca together, he's in a massive hairy suit and
51:14
he's like shouting at him and say all right man, don't lose
51:18
your temper. I'm going to go down there.
51:19
I'll come back and give. Yeah.
51:21
And he totally sells it. Does do you like?
51:23
Your next Chewbagger. Miles better.
51:24
Yeah, he. Does.
51:25
Yeah, he does. It's.
51:26
Brilliant. And it's, I think it's quite
51:29
well known now, I think that Harrison Ford wanted Hansel
51:33
that'll be killed off at the end of Empire, which I think he
51:35
wanted with every single character he's played in the
51:38
franchise. So, yeah, and he didn't want to
51:43
play the character again, ever. So that's why Lucas had them
51:45
frozen in carbonite, just to give them the option whether to
51:48
bring them back or not. But they did, yeah.
51:50
And it's great, you guys. Wishing The Force Awakens,
51:52
didn't he? Yeah, he.
51:54
Loves that that scene when he dies, he's so happy.
51:58
Finally. Leaps off that bridge.
52:00
It's like yes deed. Also, when the 1st Trail of
52:06
Vampire was released in cinemas it had Harrison Ford on there
52:09
doing the voice over. Really.
52:11
Have you heard that? No, I haven't.
52:13
Well, if anyone that's not heard it, here it is, the first Empire
52:16
Strikes Back trailer voiced by Harrison Ford.
52:19
Luke. Skywalker and Han Solo rescued
52:21
the Princess, destroyed the Death Star, but their story
52:24
didn't end there. Wouldn't it be nice to me?
52:28
Sounds far too excited to be Harrison Ford, really.
52:32
Does more excited than he was for the Blade Runner voice over.
52:36
Ali been at the Tunisian table cleaner when he did that.
52:40
Must be only explanation. Is there?
52:45
Also a nice touch when Ford found out that the editor, Paul
52:47
Hirsch, hadn't been paid for cutting that trigger together,
52:50
Ford split his fate with him for doing the voice over.
52:52
Oh nice. Top guy?
52:54
Absolutely. Legend.
52:56
No award recognition for Harrison Ford and Empire, but no
52:59
matter he was on the way to big things in Hollywood.
53:01
The year after Empire played Indiana Jones for the first time
53:04
and we as of the Lost Ark. The after that he played Deckard
53:07
and Blade Runner. Then the year after that he was
53:09
back his Han Solo and returning the Jedi.
53:10
Then the next year he was in the again in Temple of Doom, one of
53:15
the biggest movie stars of his generation, Harrison Ford.
53:18
Pretty good decade that like, isn't it?
53:21
Brilliant. The villain of the peace and
53:25
returning from Star Wars is, of course, Darth Vader, played by
53:29
David Prow was and voiced by James Dale Jones.
53:31
That's what we're talking about next.
53:35
Take the Princess and the Wookiee to my ship.
53:38
You. Said they'd be left in the city
53:39
under my supervision. I.
53:41
Am altering the deal, pray I don't offer it any further.
53:45
With the demise of Grandma talking to the end of Star Wars,
53:47
Veda now does the Emperor's bidding and basically runs the
53:50
Imperial fleet. Identifying the rebel base of
53:52
the star of the movie, Veda hunts down Han and Leah before
53:56
fighting and defeating Luke Skywalker in the climax.
53:59
Yeah, strong is Veda. How is he as the antagonist
54:03
here, Matt? It's really interesting because
54:06
in a lot of ways I think this film is Vedas film and I think
54:09
he dominates this film in a way he didn't quite do in Star Wars.
54:13
Like his presence just looms over everything, even the Saints
54:16
he's not in. You just feel his like shadow
54:19
there because he's hot on the heels of Leah in hand.
54:22
And there's two things he does constantly in this film, which I
54:25
think a great first one is he makes some amazing entrances.
54:29
Like no one walks through a door like Veda does in this film.
54:33
The bass on Hearth, striding through the Star Destroyer
54:36
standing up from the table, the Cloud City.
54:39
Amazing, fantastic entrances. The second thing he does?
54:42
Just constantly dispatching inept underlings.
54:44
Great. Like just a litter of corpses
54:47
behind him, like staff turnover undervated.
54:49
Must be absolutely appalling. Love.
54:52
Him in this. Everyone left, right and center.
54:54
Everyone. Apology accepted.
54:56
Captain Need. A thinks it's hilarious as well.
55:01
Great, great stuff. Love him.
55:03
Yeah, you're right. Mad Video's presence is such
55:05
that his shadow was cast over this film and we have not seen
55:08
any of that villain do anywhere. Obviously it's great in the
55:11
climax when we're seeing freezing, hunting carbonite and
55:13
teaching Luke a thing or two. But the scenes on the Star
55:16
Destroyer that I like the most, how merciless he is with his own
55:19
men, choking officers are feeling them left, right in the
55:21
center and the cold fury that we get from him.
55:24
The moment that you watch the Falcon escape through the
55:26
viewport and then walks down the bridge and off the set and
55:29
everyone is just scared rigid. They don't even make eye contact
55:31
with him. Brilliant.
55:33
But we get development here too. The scene where we see him in
55:35
his meditation chamber and get a glimpse of his head for the
55:37
first time, it subtle, makes us think what the Hell's happened
55:40
to him. And then obviously the big block
55:42
revealed later on that blows off you from wide open.
55:45
He's everything a good villain should be.
55:47
He looks good, he sounds good, he's interesting, strong,
55:50
powerful, even gets a one liner or two.
55:53
We said no. Star Wars Episode The Veil, that
55:55
was one of the best films in movie history.
55:57
Here he is the best villain in movie history for me.
56:00
Just an enormous presence in the film.
56:03
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I'm not going to disagree at
56:06
all. I mean, I think Prowse needs
56:08
some a little bit of kudos here as well, because I think he's
56:10
body language and the way he moves, it's just as important as
56:14
Earl Jones to be fair. And when he says, you know, we
56:17
can rule the Galaxy, his father and son he's handled.
56:19
Yes. I think that's great.
56:21
Just them little moments. Yeah, it's really great.
56:23
And the lightsaber fights, Outrageous.
56:25
And I think he's great in that. I love him jumping down the
56:27
stairs, man, I just want to do that every morning.
56:30
Right on the stairs there. And I also, it's so relevant
56:34
that this now when he's just when when he starts strangling
56:37
the guy just like on the video and like how many people do you
56:40
want to strangle over Zoom in the last year, say, I wish I
56:45
could do that, fall in the background.
56:49
You're in charge now. No, it's just so entertaining
56:53
and it's a great, great, great performance.
56:56
And like you said, John, yeah, this film is, it's probably the
56:59
best buddy ever. So Vader then, Pretty good bad
57:03
guy. Absolutely.
57:04
It's all right. Apology accepted Captain Neda.
57:13
There is a wider cast, of course, and we're going to talk
57:15
a bit more about Frank Oz's Yoda and Billy Dee Williams is Lando
57:18
Calrissian, but in Mark Hamill is Lou Carrie Fisher as Leah
57:22
Harrison Ford is Hard and David Problems and Jamesville Jordan's
57:25
Vader. We have four of the most iconic
57:27
characters in Hollywood. Yeah.
57:30
Definitely. This episode of All the Right
57:38
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59:52
The Empire Strikes Back and our heroes have been separated.
59:55
Lucas headed off the Dagabad to find Jedi Master Yoda, and we're
59:58
going to be talking about that shortly.
1:00:00
But up first, we're with Han and Leah and the Millennium Falcon
1:00:03
and their space chase on the run from the Empire, Sir.
1:00:06
The possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is
1:00:09
approximately 3720 to what never tell.
1:00:11
Me the odds. Having made a run for the Falcon
1:00:14
during the Battle of Hoth, Han, Leah, Chewy and Three PO find
1:00:17
themselves chasing the deep space by Imperial forces.
1:00:20
These sequences bring us TIE fighters, Star Destroyers,
1:00:23
asteroid fields, Minox, and a good old fashioned love story as
1:00:27
a scoundrel and the Princess fall for each other.
1:00:30
How are these scenes on the Falcon, Matt?
1:00:33
I just adore this sequence. It's I Can Fall Away, one of my
1:00:38
favorite bits in the film. I love the music.
1:00:41
That's one of my favorite pieces of music in the film.
1:00:43
And honestly, this is what Star Wars is for me.
1:00:46
The Falcon being pursued by TIE fighters.
1:00:48
I could watch, I could watch this for two hours and I'd be
1:00:50
happy. That's all I need.
1:00:52
All I need, but you know, just great.
1:00:54
Dialogue on the Falcon as well between Han and there and it's a
1:00:57
great glimpse now Han is flying by the seat of his pants here
1:01:00
it's. Not my fault.
1:01:02
It's not my fault, yeah. Exactly.
1:01:04
He knows what they're doing is crazy, but it's the only thing
1:01:07
you can think of. So he's going to do it and see
1:01:08
if he can get away with it. What I like though, is it shows
1:01:12
you how much the special effects have come on from Star Wars as
1:01:14
well. Because if you look at that film
1:01:16
in comparison, the scene where the escape, the death toll and
1:01:19
the Falcon and the scent I fight is after them.
1:01:21
You can kind of tell the Falcons basically stationary in that
1:01:24
shot and the move and the Ty fighters around it to create a
1:01:27
sense of movement. And, you know, it's edited well,
1:01:29
so it works. But here, everything's moving.
1:01:31
The Falcon, it's ducking in between all the asteroids.
1:01:34
They spin it around. The TIE fighters are doing the
1:01:36
same, but they're getting battered all over the place.
1:01:39
Like, it's such a good sequence, even a completely by the fact
1:01:42
that they didn't spend the next 15 minutes hiding in the mouth
1:01:45
of a giant space where I'm like, yeah, that's fine.
1:01:47
Totally. I'm on board with that.
1:01:49
It's a complete sense. Yeah, it is.
1:01:51
It's honestly one of my favorite bits in the film.
1:01:54
It's just so exciting. It's so good.
1:01:57
And Ford and Fisher, it just incredible in those scenes
1:02:00
together, I think. Yeah.
1:02:02
Yeah, you're right Matt. The shots you have the Falcons
1:02:05
trooping in between star destroyed and being followed by
1:02:07
the tie fighters timeless shots. Those aside on shot when the end
1:02:10
of the asteroid field and the Falcons troops towards the
1:02:12
camera and away from again. That still looks fantastic.
1:02:16
And while this is going on, we keep coming into the Falcon.
1:02:18
It's hot and chewy. You're trying to fix stuff and
1:02:20
then in the middle of the bowl those moments are clearly comedy
1:02:22
moments like the toolbox falling on Hans head.
1:02:24
But like we thought about the never undermine the series of
1:02:27
the situation. I think it's a bit of a master
1:02:29
class that's not the film a space ball and we're going to
1:02:31
talk more about how ILM did what they did.
1:02:33
But at this point, 1980, it must look mind blowingly good.
1:02:37
Oh. Absolutely.
1:02:38
And there's a bit with the music, you know, what does the
1:02:39
loop, the loop to go into the yeah, I love that.
1:02:42
There's that little, little bit of music that just like.
1:02:46
Yeah, it's all good. In like the best bit of the
1:02:50
whole thing is when they turn around and they're like, it's
1:02:53
like a fight, like the attack formation and he turns around
1:02:56
like we're going to go straight at it.
1:02:58
And then just like flies over the top of the star Destroyer
1:03:00
and they're like always he gone. And you feel so sorry for that
1:03:03
guy because you're like he's trying his best and you know
1:03:06
he's going to go and apologize to Lord.
1:03:08
You're like, oh, you're dead. It's just so clever how they've
1:03:13
just camouflaged themselves on the ship.
1:03:15
It's just so good that you no chip that small as a clicking
1:03:19
device. Amazing.
1:03:20
But you do, and he's involved in that and I think that's just
1:03:23
really clever writing and really cleverly done and you don't see
1:03:26
that coming at all and that pay off.
1:03:28
Even when you go back in the Falcon, they're just like really
1:03:30
relieved that it's worked. Absolutely brilliant.
1:03:33
Really. Rebel Alliance where Getaway
1:03:35
just float with the cottage. You're not going to notice for
1:03:37
you. We talked about the Millennium
1:03:39
Falcon there and this film was the only time that they ever
1:03:42
built a full size Falcon for filming.
1:03:44
It was 65 feet across, 80 feet long, 16 feet high in a weird 23
1:03:49
tons. Wow, fancy 111 your back garden
1:03:52
Westy I. Just live in it.
1:04:01
Getting an Uber back to the Falcon.
1:04:06
Yeah, as well as I thought you ought to see Darth Vader
1:04:08
superstar story in the film that's called The Executor and
1:04:12
apparently is 19 kilometers long. 19 kilometers long.
1:04:16
Yeah, yeah. They didn't build that one for.
1:04:19
Real you wouldn't fit, my God. To be fair as well, once you get
1:04:22
to the point that you're calling your ships the Death Star and
1:04:24
the Executor, yeah, you don't even pretending to be the good
1:04:27
guys anymore at. That point Are we the bad guys?
1:04:31
Is this the dark side? Yeah, it's fine.
1:04:34
So Han and Leah escape the Empire, but they're not out of
1:04:38
it yet, are they? Nope.
1:04:40
Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable.
1:04:44
Not entirely stable. I'm glad you're here to tell us
1:04:47
these things, Chewie. Take the professor in the back
1:04:49
and plug him into the hyperdrive.
1:04:51
While Hauntedly are fighting for their lives, Luke's having it
1:04:54
pretty easy over on Dagabond. Comparison, you think?
1:04:58
And now we're headed there with him, too.
1:05:00
I'm not looking for a friend, I'm looking for a Jedi Master.
1:05:05
Jedi Master Yoda, you seek Yoda. After leaving Hoth and under
1:05:11
instruction from Obi Wan Kenobi, Luke doesn't meet up with the
1:05:14
rest of the rebel fleet. He heads off the Dagobah with R2
1:05:17
to learn the ways of the Force. The scenes on Dagobah bring us
1:05:20
swamp monsters, dark side caves, and introduces one of Star Wars
1:05:23
most iconic characters and the wisest of Jedi Masters in Yoda.
1:05:27
Yeah, of all the places to be exiled, and I've chosen
1:05:31
somewhere a bit more scenic, having the dig about.
1:05:33
Yeah, dumb. Smelled a little bit better.
1:05:35
Fucking stinks on there man. How are these scenes in the
1:05:38
film? Wesley, I think.
1:05:40
The great and I think it's really, really good that you get
1:05:43
that sense of like you would have pretended to be somebody
1:05:46
that he's not and he's not playing straight into Luke's
1:05:48
hands and I think that's really cocky.
1:05:50
He's horrible little cocky bastard.
1:05:52
And that he's just leading down the garden path.
1:05:55
And, you know, he is like, it's brilliant.
1:05:57
But I mean, I imagine Frank Oz turning around here if you're
1:06:00
Irvin Kirchner and he's like, what do you think you're just
1:06:02
going to sound like? And he does the voice for the
1:06:04
first time, and you'd be like, yeah, really?
1:06:09
We'll give it a go. Is it?
1:06:13
Is it? Is that what you?
1:06:15
Are you serious? But it really works.
1:06:19
Like, watch it again the first time he speaks and imagine being
1:06:22
an impression. I'd just say an OK to that.
1:06:24
That's that's incredible. Yeah.
1:06:25
That's great. Let's do that.
1:06:27
Yeah, do that. That sounds absolutely spot on.
1:06:29
And the whole, I mean, it's just, it's just outrageously
1:06:32
good. It's just outrageously good.
1:06:34
And I think the puppeteering is amazing.
1:06:36
I think Frank Oz is really good. Oh, it's going to be a
1:06:38
performance. Frank Oz is going to talk like
1:06:40
this and it's going to make total sense.
1:06:41
Is it? Yes, Yes, it is.
1:06:43
It works. Yeah, when they first get a dig
1:06:45
about R2, falls into the swamp and gets swallowed by some kind
1:06:48
of monster, That was one of the sequences that came back and
1:06:51
shot later that we talked about. And that whole sequence was shot
1:06:53
in George Lucas, a swimming pool.
1:06:54
Oh. Really.
1:06:56
Yeah. Filthy.
1:06:57
Start a story when he. But yeah, I mean, how great is
1:07:02
Yoda? He's very much an archetype,
1:07:04
like the old man, a goblin who imparted wasn't the main
1:07:06
character. I love how much he loves the
1:07:09
Force. You would have loved the Force
1:07:11
more than any other film character has ever loved
1:07:13
anything. That luminous beings monologue?
1:07:16
Oh, I'm going to play it. For my ally is the force, and
1:07:21
the powerful ally it is. Life grieves, it makes it grow.
1:07:30
Its energy surrounds us and binds us.
1:07:35
Luminous beings, so we not this crude matter.
1:07:39
And he follows that by using the force lift the X thing out the
1:07:42
swamp, which is one of the best moments in the film for me.
1:07:45
A 2 foot tall frog thing talking about some mystical power that
1:07:48
doesn't exist and we're supposed to take it seriously.
1:07:51
And unless a film that would be laughable.
1:07:53
Laughable. And the dialogue that follows
1:07:56
that when he's, I don't believe it.
1:07:58
And that's why you'll feel incredible amazing your.
1:08:01
Last dialogue is unbelievable. Yeah, I think we'll buy him
1:08:04
because for a few reasons. The design work is superb.
1:08:07
Frank Oz is the puppeteer and the voice actor is fantastic.
1:08:10
The dialogue written by Kazdan is superb.
1:08:13
I mean they ruined him later on in the prequels when he's an
1:08:15
idiot and does stupid things and leaps about like Sonic the
1:08:17
Hedgehog with a lifesaver. But here in Empire, this is Yoda
1:08:21
to me. One of the best supporting
1:08:23
characters I've ever seen. Fantastic.
1:08:25
He's fantastic. You trust him immediately.
1:08:27
I love. Him.
1:08:28
I'd do anything he told us to do.
1:08:29
All right, then I'm not. What about you see?
1:08:36
You in court next week, you would have told us to do it.
1:08:41
Yeah, I want to talk about that sequence, though, where it's
1:08:44
part of Luke's training. He makes Luke go into The Cave,
1:08:47
but he doesn't tell because it's very, very trippy, I think, and
1:08:52
it builds that tension up brilliantly.
1:08:53
Just because you can't get a reading on the order here, just
1:08:57
sitting there drawing pictures in the mud with a stick doesn't
1:08:59
give any clue what Luke's going to face.
1:09:01
And it does surprise you because you can see Digbox full of
1:09:03
snakes and lizards crawling all over the place.
1:09:06
You think, right, Is it going to be like some kind of swamp
1:09:08
monster? You know, like, you know, like
1:09:10
the womp or something like that. You're just not expecting
1:09:13
theater. And a really wrong Footsie could
1:09:15
just for a second you think this has been a trap all along.
1:09:18
Is the order actually about that?
1:09:19
Yeah, you know it does. Wrong for you.
1:09:21
Just for seconds, yeah. Possibly, but.
1:09:23
I think because it's in slow motion, it gets this real
1:09:26
nightmarish quality to it. It never feels quite real.
1:09:30
And I think ultimately it's just some really nice foreshadowing
1:09:33
of what's to come in the third act.
1:09:34
The fact when Luke asks you order what's in there and he
1:09:37
says only what you take with you, and then it's Luke's head
1:09:40
inside the helmet. So it's obviously talking about
1:09:43
Luke's ancestry, where he actually comes from and who
1:09:46
video really. So it's some really nice wash
1:09:48
that corner. Was it?
1:09:49
He knows it as well deep down, yeah.
1:09:51
Yeah, that's it. Says you know it to be true,
1:09:53
like, and he's adaptive accepted, but it's like your
1:09:56
weapons, you won't need them and then takes them anyway.
1:09:59
And that's a great line, yeah. Yeah, it is because seeing
1:10:02
himself as Veda is like a manifestation.
1:10:03
It looks anger and fear. Would you want me to take the
1:10:05
weapons in the 1st place? So if you hadn't taken the
1:10:08
weapons, you wouldn't have needed them, which is what you
1:10:10
would have meant. Really.
1:10:11
Exactly. Yeah, really good.
1:10:12
I mentioned how Mark Hamill broke his thumb earlier and when
1:10:15
he jumped from the snow speeder and he was in the wars on Dagger
1:10:19
Bar 2 to be honest. Like the moment where Yoda and
1:10:22
Obi Wan are trying to convince Luke to stay.
1:10:25
Luke pulls a snake from his X wing.
1:10:27
Kirchner had assured him that snake was harmless, but it bit
1:10:30
him a few times on the hand few times.
1:10:33
And earlier in Yoda's hood when Luke bangs his head on the roof,
1:10:35
Kirchner made Hamel do that 16 times.
1:10:39
Just bang your head again, David Fincher.
1:10:44
Kirchner did for Hamel I think, definitely.
1:10:47
Irvin Finchner. I know that Hamel did struggle
1:10:51
with the scenes on Dagger bars. He was there by himself as an
1:10:53
actor and getting bitten by snakes.
1:10:54
So Frank, God's brought in Miss Piggy to make him laugh on the
1:10:57
set. Really, I'd need more than that.
1:11:00
I'm like from the Jack or something to be honest.
1:11:03
That wouldn't do it. I've been.
1:11:04
Bitten by snake? I don't see miss being honest,
1:11:06
Frank. I'm having a shit time, I'll
1:11:08
tell you what. Who's they said?
1:11:11
No, that's not doing karate. Chopping the snakes.
1:11:18
That's where he goes. Karate training, that's.
1:11:19
What it was and. The thing about Yoda, he's
1:11:21
obviously Lucas's ID, but he did change a lot along the way.
1:11:24
First of all, of all things in this must be another reference
1:11:28
to a dog. He was called Buffy, which I'm
1:11:31
just so glad to change that. Can you imagine Buffy, Norway
1:11:34
then, then Minch, which kind of get in there before finally,
1:11:38
something on Yoda. So Lucas's ID, but the design
1:11:41
came from a British makeup artist called Stuart Freeborn,
1:11:44
who based the eyes on Albert Einstein, which I think is
1:11:46
really obvious. You can totally tell the time.
1:11:48
Yeah, but the rest of Yoda's face based on himself, which,
1:11:52
you know, I don't really want to Google what Stuart Freeborn
1:11:55
looks like. You can't tell he looks like
1:11:57
Yoda. He does.
1:11:58
No way have. A look online for Stuart
1:12:00
Freeborn if you've not seen him before, the pictures of him next
1:12:02
to the Yoda puppet and he looks like Yoda.
1:12:04
Yeah, right. Wow, I.
1:12:06
Don't know if I want to see that.
1:12:08
I know as well that Irvin Kirschner originally thought
1:12:10
Yoda should be 9 feet tall and have a big white beard like
1:12:13
Moses, but like I said, that's a bit of a cliche like.
1:12:16
Gandalf, Yeah. The first person Lucas offered
1:12:19
you order to as well. It's a pretty, pretty obvious
1:12:21
one. It was Jim Henson, because
1:12:22
obviously he created The Muppets, so you know, second
1:12:25
nature and working with puppets. But Henson was too busy making
1:12:28
the great Muppet caper, so he was the guy who recommended
1:12:31
Frank Olson Stead, which is why we have him as the order.
1:12:34
And you're deep, Roy, the actor who played the Oomba Loombas and
1:12:36
join the Chocolate Factory. Oh, yeah, yeah, He played the
1:12:39
order, too, though he was uncredited in the film.
1:12:41
The white. You would have walked in the
1:12:43
distance. That's deep, Roy.
1:12:44
You know you're a costume. Yeah.
1:12:46
Yeah, OK, we nicer Williams put that in the score.
1:12:49
It's like doom, doom through this one.
1:12:57
Strings Yoga was controlled by Frank Oz, as we've said, and
1:13:02
three other puppeteers. So the whole dagger bar set was
1:13:05
actually elevated so they get underneath it.
1:13:08
So Mark Hamill wore an earpiece so we can hear Frank Oz doing
1:13:10
the voice under the set. And Oz said that on many
1:13:13
occasions, Kirchner would give directions directly to Yoda and
1:13:17
not to him. And you have to remind the movie
1:13:19
speaking, talking straight to the puppet, like, I do that
1:13:23
better just turn this way. He's like, yeah, I'm just here.
1:13:27
I wouldn't know you inside viable with an earpiece, with
1:13:29
Franco's just giving it 6 now. Yeah, that's your day job.
1:13:33
To you, it was indie dramas. You didn't know what was going
1:13:35
on. Also, George Lucas was so blown
1:13:39
away by Frank Oz's performance as Yoda that he spent thousands
1:13:42
of dollars on an advertising campaign to try and get him an
1:13:45
Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actor.
1:13:47
Well, it ultimately failed though because of Academy
1:13:49
restrictions. But Oscar worthy?
1:13:52
I mean, it's good. He's good, he's very good.
1:13:54
Robin Williams in Goodwill Hunt No.
1:13:58
Although to be fair, I'd probably take Oz's performance
1:13:59
here over Connery in The Untouchables.
1:14:01
Get out, would you? Unbelievable.
1:14:06
Enough of this rhyme shit. Yoda is one of the most iconic
1:14:12
supporting characters in cinema and Star Wars does have a few of
1:14:14
those though. And on that we have a question
1:14:17
from Patreon. So one of the benefits of being
1:14:20
an ACRM page run is I will answer your questions on the
1:14:22
show. And Ryan Chipotle has a question
1:14:25
for us. Hello.
1:14:26
Ryan. Hello, Ryan.
1:14:27
So here's Ryan. Hey guys, Ryan here with so many
1:14:31
great characters in the Star Wars universe.
1:14:34
Who's your favorite Star Wars character and why is it Darth
1:14:38
Vader? Thanks guys.
1:14:40
Well, we've already told about Veda, so Matt, who was your
1:14:43
favorite aside from him? Aside from Veda, I'm going to go
1:14:46
for Chewy just because everyone needs a best friend like Chewy
1:14:51
and I want to have a best friend, but I'm the only person
1:14:54
who understands what he says. I just think that's quite a cool
1:14:56
thing to have. And really selfish.
1:14:58
Yeah, really selfish. But you know, that's what I want
1:15:01
from friends. It is always got your back.
1:15:05
The only one who understands what I'll say.
1:15:07
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
1:15:10
He's always got your back. He's going to be handy in the
1:15:12
scrap. You can fly the Falcon with you.
1:15:14
What's not love about Chewy? And he gives great hope.
1:15:17
Look at him. Yeah, yeah, I can strangle
1:15:20
someone if you want. Exactly.
1:15:21
Yeah, and Wesley Jar jar for you, right?
1:15:25
OK, no, I'm going to go for Boba Fett.
1:15:30
He's just the coolest and he was the coolest one.
1:15:33
I saw him in this. He's absolutely brilliant looks.
1:15:35
Great. Looks really cool.
1:15:36
Yeah. So the middle of The Empire
1:15:38
Strikes Back is where the narrative really starts to
1:15:40
progress. Huntly escape in the Empire as a
1:15:42
roller coaster and the scenes between Luke and Yoda and
1:15:45
Digaba. Pretty iconic.
1:15:47
Yeah, fantastic. Definitely.
1:15:52
The crew. A sequel to Star Wars was always
1:15:57
going to be a big production. That's exactly what The Empire
1:16:00
Strikes Back was. And we're going to talk about
1:16:02
some of the crew who worked on that production.
1:16:04
Now, John Williams is the composer.
1:16:07
Pia Sashitsky is the director of photography.
1:16:09
And ILM providing the visual effects are all coming up.
1:16:12
But let's start with the writing of the movie, shall we?
1:16:15
Yeah. So there are three credited
1:16:17
writers on The Empire Strikes Back.
1:16:19
The story was written by George Lucas, and the screenplay is
1:16:21
credited to Lee Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan.
1:16:24
Yeah, Lee Brackett was a science fiction short story writer known
1:16:27
as the Queen of Space Opera and had some big screenplay credits
1:16:30
like The Big Sleep, Rio Bravo, and The Long Goodbye under her
1:16:33
belt. And Lawrence Kasdan was a young
1:16:35
screenwriter making a name for himself who would recently work
1:16:38
with Lucas by writing the screenplay for Raiders of the
1:16:40
Lost Ark. So what do we think of the
1:16:43
writing of an empire, Wesley? I think it's a really hard gig
1:16:47
to have because I don't think Lucas would have had a very in
1:16:52
depth idea of what he wanted to do.
1:16:54
I think it kind of the open and crawl, I think is all Lucas
1:16:57
would have given to the two of the like the open and crawl, the
1:17:00
leap bracket and Lawrence cars down and just been like, this is
1:17:03
where we are and the sending probes out.
1:17:05
So let's just go from there. And it doesn't feel like it's
1:17:09
consistent, but that's not a bad thing feeling.
1:17:12
It really works. And it was, again, like I always
1:17:14
say with the right and it was a work in progress as they were
1:17:17
shooting. And I think a lot of things were
1:17:19
added, a lot of things were taken away, a lot of things were
1:17:21
ad labed, a lot of things were put in and people were
1:17:23
disagreeing with whatever else. And, and I think that's what you
1:17:25
get from the writing. Yeah, I think the writing is
1:17:28
brilliant top to bottom. The development of the world by
1:17:31
bringing in new elements like Bounty Hunt as the Emperor, new
1:17:34
societies is excellent. The screenplay itself in
1:17:37
fleshing out characters more and vastly improving on the dialogue
1:17:39
from the first film is top notch.
1:17:41
But the thing I want to talk about is the storytelling, which
1:17:44
I think is just incredible. in Star Wars, Lucas created this
1:17:48
amazing universe and was savvy enough to just drop in your
1:17:50
classic hero's journey story, which works perfectly.
1:17:53
Yeah, he's making the big sequel.
1:17:56
And Hollywood rules tell us the blockbuster sequels have to tell
1:17:58
the same story as the first film.
1:18:00
But the stakes are bigger. Aliens goes from Ripley being
1:18:03
trapped on a spaceship to Ripley being trapped on a planet, only
1:18:06
now the Lords of Aliens. Terminator 2 was the same cheer
1:18:09
story as the first one, but now there's two Terminators, and one
1:18:11
of them is liquid metal. Robert Patrick Lucas doesn't do
1:18:14
any of that. He breaks the sequel rules in
1:18:16
quite a few ways. Firstly, the stage gets smaller
1:18:19
in Star Wars. Luke Skywalker wants to save the
1:18:21
Galaxy. Yeah, he just wants to save his
1:18:23
friends. The big battle usually comes to
1:18:25
the end of the movie. Not here.
1:18:27
It comes to the start. The end is small and
1:18:29
intermittent, much more about character drama.
1:18:31
Also, the filamental and cliffhanger.
1:18:33
You're not supposed to do that. And most of all, the good guys
1:18:36
don't even win at the end of the film.
1:18:38
And when you throw in, it's got the most iconic plot twist ever,
1:18:41
which we're obviously going to talk about later on.
1:18:43
The storytelling, it's just as good as it gets in this kind of
1:18:46
film for me. Bet James.
1:18:47
Cameron hates this film. I mean, this is what Star Wars
1:18:53
used to be capable of before the dark times, before Disney.
1:18:59
Yeah, there's just so many elements here that shouldn't
1:19:01
work and yet to do. You know, you mentioned a lot
1:19:03
there John, but the fact that our 3 heroes, who we really
1:19:07
enjoyed getting see together in the first film spent at least
1:19:10
2/3 of this apart from each other.
1:19:12
The fact that really there's very little plot.
1:19:15
It's just old story. It's just a constant sense of
1:19:17
movement and if escape and that all works.
1:19:20
And then the bleakness, that's an either.
1:19:22
There's one line that always stands out to me and it's quite
1:19:25
thorough in its when they've been captured on Cloud City in
1:19:28
hand, gets brought back to the cell after being tortured and he
1:19:31
says they didn't even ask me any questions.
1:19:33
Great. Line what?
1:19:34
A line of just being tortured. How bleak is that?
1:19:37
Vader. Total bastard.
1:19:39
Yeah, just torture. Him for the hell of it.
1:19:41
Imagine, right, what Matt just said.
1:19:43
They put that in a blurb and then anyone who hasn't seen The
1:19:46
Empire Strikes Back get to read that.
1:19:48
And I don't think they're going to want to say you never know.
1:19:52
Absolutely not. Yeah, that's what should sync
1:19:55
the film. And yeah, that's what makes the
1:19:57
film work, though. And then characters, the
1:19:59
characters are better developed. Everyone now has light and shade
1:20:02
of them. And then there's how much
1:20:03
mythology gets added in here, more explanation what the Force
1:20:06
is. You have Yoda, the Emperor,
1:20:08
Landor Boba Fett. There's an incredible depth of
1:20:11
this writing in the Psyche Surgeon for sequel.
1:20:14
It should have just been throw away.
1:20:15
It should have been Star Wars again, a bit bigger.
1:20:18
But there's so many brave decisions and every one of them
1:20:21
comes off and pays off brilliantly at the end.
1:20:24
The first draft of the script was written by Lee Bracket
1:20:26
alone. She sadly passed away from
1:20:28
cancer shortly after finishing her draft.
1:20:30
And that's why Lucas brought in Lawrence Kasdan as they were
1:20:33
working together on Wheels of the Lost Ark.
1:20:35
And the script changed a lot after Kasdan came in.
1:20:38
Yeah, Lee Brackett's draft was called Star Wars Chapter 2,
1:20:41
which is very different than what we see on the screen.
1:20:44
Kazdan said her tape was from a different era, and they didn't
1:20:47
have a, like, the right tone. And in Brackett's original
1:20:51
version, Veda was not Luke's father.
1:20:53
But we did find out that Luke had a sister.
1:20:55
The sister wasn't Leah, and she was called Nellith.
1:20:58
So I think it's like this sounds more like June.
1:21:03
Nellith, Nellith the elephant. Did you write that one?
1:21:09
Wasn't that Frasier's wife and Frasier?
1:21:15
You've been dying to say that, John.
1:21:16
I've had. It written down, yeah.
1:21:21
Lee Bracket was 65 at the time. They'd written science fiction
1:21:24
as far back as the 1940s, where his empire was cool, cutting
1:21:27
edge science fiction. So Kazdan, who was like 30 at
1:21:30
the time, probably was the better fit for it.
1:21:33
Yeah. And if you look at the credits,
1:21:34
one of the producers is a guy called Howard Kazanjian, and he
1:21:38
says gotten him. The drafts changed so much that
1:21:40
if Lucas hadn't insisted, then Brackett actually wouldn't have
1:21:44
got any credit. She wouldn't have been eligible
1:21:45
because it did change so much. But he did go to the WGA, which
1:21:49
is the Writers Guild, to ask for core credit for her, which she
1:21:52
did get. And he also supported the family
1:21:55
by giving them more than the $50,000 he'd already agreed to
1:21:57
pay for us. So, you know, say what you like
1:21:59
about him. He stands by his friends and he
1:22:01
recognizes good work, I think. Yeah, yeah, he's The Chew backer
1:22:05
of Hollywood. I thought he was skint.
1:22:10
No wonder. Pull.
1:22:11
This one out of someone has more.
1:22:13
Toys to sell on this one. We'll sell some more toys.
1:22:16
We'll be fine. Also quite interesting, before
1:22:19
Star Wars came out, Lucas wasn't sure if I was going to be
1:22:21
successful, so he mapped out two possible sequels, an expensive
1:22:25
one if Star Wars was a hit that became Empire, and also a low
1:22:28
budget one in case it wasn't OK. Have you heard much about that?
1:22:32
No, not at all. The.
1:22:33
Low budget sequel was called Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
1:22:36
And in this and in this and in the story, Luke and Leah become
1:22:42
marooned on a planet called Mimbin.
1:22:44
And so does Darth Vader. How?
1:22:47
And then he's basically hunting them across the planet.
1:22:50
So it's like Predator with two people in it, and Darth Vader is
1:22:52
the Predator. Outrageous little budget that
1:22:56
sounds mint. It was turned into a novel by
1:22:59
Alan Dean Foster and the graphic novel too, by Marvel.
1:23:01
Right. OK.
1:23:02
OK. I'll check.
1:23:04
That out. After writing Empire, Lawrence
1:23:05
Kasdan went on to have a very successful career.
1:23:08
He wrote readers like we mentioned, wrote and directed
1:23:10
Silverado, The Bodyguard and Wyatt Earp, and also wrote the
1:23:14
Star Wars films Returning the Jedi, The Force Awakens and
1:23:17
Solo. A Star Wars Story Empire, though
1:23:21
up there with his best surely I. Think it is?
1:23:23
Yeah, definitely. Moving on from the writing to
1:23:30
the music and the composer on Empire was, of course, John
1:23:34
Williams. Yes, yes, it was.
1:23:37
Returning from his Oscar winning score on Star Wars, Williams
1:23:39
compose all of the music we hear in the film, developing his
1:23:42
original music and adding in new pieces to How good is it Though
1:23:46
the music on Empire Math. Well, when we did the The Rank
1:23:50
and Spielberg episode, I remember then when I talked
1:23:53
about readers, I wanted to talk about the soundtrack because I
1:23:55
think I said then I thought that's probably William's best
1:23:58
overall work. But after watching Empire a few
1:24:01
times and last week and listening to the soundtrack a
1:24:03
few times and so on and so on, I think I've got to change your
1:24:06
mind. I think this has to be, I mean,
1:24:07
certainly it's the best Star Wars work because he's bringing
1:24:11
everything back from the first, which was amazing to begin with.
1:24:13
But then just look at what he adds already mentioned.
1:24:16
I love the music from the asteroid field scene, Yoda's
1:24:18
theme, and obviously the Imperial March.
1:24:21
You know, evil has a theme tune thanks to John Williams and what
1:24:24
he does here. It's just sensational.
1:24:27
And I think my favorite use of music is right at the end when
1:24:31
the Falcons made it back to the rebel fleet, but Hans gone and
1:24:34
everyone's just recovering. And the music is so, like,
1:24:37
gentle and mournful at first, like, picked out on that guitar.
1:24:40
But then it just builds. It builds and it swells and it
1:24:44
goes into the love theme and it just sweeps you where?
1:24:47
And then Williams just hit you with that fanfare for the end
1:24:49
credits. And then the end suite, it's
1:24:51
just forget about it. That's just incredible work.
1:24:54
So yeah, his work here faultless.
1:24:57
Yeah, I'm the same. I'm going to say that I'm going
1:24:58
to repeat exactly what I said on the Star Wars episode and that
1:25:01
he's absolutely saved this film. He saved Star Wars.
1:25:05
He made it believable, he made it serious, he made it
1:25:08
accessible. He made you sit up and take
1:25:10
notice. Look, this isn't just a
1:25:11
throwaway sci-fi film. This is a space opera.
1:25:15
It's massive and he just brings everything that he can't.
1:25:18
Like Matt said, the Imperial March, when you hear that, that
1:25:21
is the ultimate body tune. You're doing a theme for a guy
1:25:31
in a mask who's all in black, and he just walks in and out and
1:25:34
he strangles people over like a video feed, whatever else is
1:25:37
right. OK, what's that going to be
1:25:38
like? He's like Dan, Dan, Dan.
1:25:42
Yes, that's exactly what it's like.
1:25:44
And yeah, he nails it, Absolutely nails it.
1:25:48
John Williams man, he's made so many films 100% better by
1:25:53
matching the visuals through the music and this film is no
1:25:56
exception. Yeah, I think the most well
1:25:58
known music from Empire of the new pieces anyway.
1:26:01
It's surely the Imperial March. Yeah, you both mentioned it
1:26:03
there. Basically the Empire Invaders
1:26:05
theme tune. It is brilliant.
1:26:07
But Williams did apparently take inspiration for it from
1:26:10
somewhere else. Have you heard about that?
1:26:12
I've not. So the 19th century festival
1:26:15
composer Frederick Chopin and his funeral March.
1:26:18
Right for all. Listeners, here is your pants
1:26:20
funeral March if you've not heard it.
1:26:42
Sound familiar? Can you hear empires or not?
1:26:45
Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought so
1:26:48
if you said the field of water would have went.
1:26:50
No, but actually. Yeah, what do you get it now?
1:26:53
Yeah, he's taking the medal. You rearrange it to be more
1:26:55
bombastic for sure. That whole piece by Surepine is
1:26:57
stunning, by the way, if you've not heard the full thing.
1:27:00
Slow, miserable. You like a Wesley?
1:27:07
No Oscar wins this time for John Williams with Musical and
1:27:10
Empire. Though he was nominated, he lost
1:27:12
out to Michael Gore for Favour. Oh really?
1:27:15
I mean, that's massive. That's a massive, that's a
1:27:16
massive. That's to be fair.
1:27:18
He was unperturbed though Williams and went on to have a
1:27:21
fairly successful career after Empire.
1:27:23
Yeah, he did all right. No complaints.
1:27:31
On to how the film looks and we're looking at the
1:27:33
cinematography on Empire. The DP on the film was Peter
1:27:36
Sashitsky, a career going back to the 1960s.
1:27:39
Sashitsky, The most famous films before Empire were All Creatures
1:27:42
Great and Small and The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
1:27:45
Yes, a step. Up in terms of scale for Peter
1:27:48
Sashitsky, then how do we do if they appear on Empire?
1:27:51
It's a strange 1, isn't it? It's like when we talked about
1:27:54
Star Wars, we said then we know who people like Ralph McCrory
1:27:58
are. Who does like the.
1:27:59
Yeah, the concept. The concept.
1:28:01
Decide to know who Ben Bird is, Who does the sound effects?
1:28:04
Can't tell you. Does the cinematography on Star
1:28:05
Wars. I've forgotten who it was we
1:28:07
talked about. I forgotten who the guy is.
1:28:10
It's such a weird thing. Gilbert Taylor.
1:28:12
Yeah, that's the guy. And it's the same.
1:28:14
He, you know, he's not a household name and yet his work,
1:28:17
it's incredible. And the difference for me from
1:28:19
what Taylor did on Star Wars is Star Wars had two looks.
1:28:22
Basically you're either inside a bright elite spaceship.
1:28:25
Are you on the desert, on Tatooine?
1:28:26
And he had the 2 looks to kneel here.
1:28:28
Susichki has got so many looks to contend with spaceships, the
1:28:32
iciness of Hoth, the swampy Nos of Diego bar, Cloud City, which
1:28:36
at first from the outside looks like it's surrounded by candy
1:28:39
floss. And but it gets darker and
1:28:41
darker the deep you get into it, especially like the foundry bit.
1:28:44
And he nails every single look. He makes the whole film feel so
1:28:47
cohesive and really kind of should be all over the place.
1:28:52
And I think he establishes visually more than what Taylor
1:28:55
did, what the Star Wars the universe should look like and
1:28:57
how it should feel. I think he is.
1:29:00
For me, he's the unsung hero of this film.
1:29:03
Yeah, I think you're right. I know that Lucas actually
1:29:04
wanted Pierre Szecski to shoot the original Star Wars.
1:29:07
I've seen a film we'd shot called Privilege in 1967.
1:29:11
But because Lucas was so inexperienced, the studio said
1:29:13
he had to have an experienced DP, which is why Gilbert Taylor
1:29:16
was hired and Lucas and Taylor didn't get on on Star Wars.
1:29:20
So Lucas went back to the shit ski for Empire.
1:29:23
And yeah I'm glad he did. Empire is easily the best
1:29:25
looking Star Wars film to me. I love how we go from the really
1:29:29
light color part of the star of the film with the bright blue
1:29:31
sky in the perfect white snow and Hoth and the parlour gets
1:29:34
gradually darker and darker until looking Vader almost like
1:29:37
2 silhouettes in the final act. Yeah.
1:29:39
Yeah. I feel like it has a lot more
1:29:40
visual richness and depth to it in the first film.
1:29:43
And my favorite show from any Star Wars film is when Luke
1:29:45
first comes together with Vader on Bespin.
1:29:47
And there's that shot of a silhouette Vader standing at the
1:29:49
top of the stairs. Yeah.
1:29:51
Awesome. Yeah.
1:29:53
Yeah. And Westy, what about you looks?
1:29:57
Great, doesn't it? It's dark, it's just aggressive
1:30:02
looking. It's just, but at the same time
1:30:04
it's the camera movement is just superb.
1:30:07
The block gun is just superb and wasn't scared about getting
1:30:10
dark, which is one of my, you know, all time favorite things
1:30:14
about anyone who's an artist. If you're not scared of getting
1:30:16
dark, I'm there all day. You know that you're in a world
1:30:20
here and he creates the world and he creates the texture of
1:30:23
the world and it's consistent from start to finish, and it's a
1:30:26
wonderful piece of work. Yeah, I know as well that when
1:30:29
the budgets started becoming a big issue, Piazza Shitsky came
1:30:32
to Lucas Rescue a bit. He said Lucas that rather than
1:30:34
finishing the sets for Dagobahn Cloud City, where hands frozen
1:30:37
in carbonite just hung up, some black curtains fill the
1:30:40
background with smoke and he'd be able to make it look good
1:30:42
with some clever lighting. So they did that, and that's why
1:30:45
there's so much smoke in those sequences.
1:30:46
The sets weren't finished. Amazing.
1:30:48
Genius. So I told you my favorite shot
1:30:50
there with Veda. What about you fellas?
1:30:52
What are your favorite shots in the film?
1:30:55
My favorite show is a similar one to you but it's just after.
1:30:59
It's the same sequence, but it's when the both at the top of the
1:31:01
stairs and the lightsabers are just incredible.
1:31:04
Iconic but. The great thing about if you
1:31:06
watch it again, it's all blue and you've got Lukes lightsaber
1:31:09
that's blue and then Vera ignites his lightsaber and then
1:31:13
it turns back to Luke and you start getting red and then it
1:31:15
cuts to a wide shot and then the stairs are red.
1:31:17
So then you've got blue and red in the scene against their blue
1:31:20
and red lightsabers. I think that production design,
1:31:23
that whole thing, that silhouetted look, that's just
1:31:25
like, that's it, that's it for me, that cinema every day of the
1:31:28
week. Mine is from the very last scene
1:31:31
of the film basically, and it's that shot of Luke, Leo and the
1:31:34
droids looking out the window. Nice.
1:31:35
And the rebel fleet. To the Spiral Galaxy, because
1:31:38
that shocked to me, it sums up the emotion of the film.
1:31:41
At that moment in the film, I just feel everything that the
1:31:44
film wants me to feel in that one image.
1:31:46
Like Empire Strikes Back, it's exhausted in the best, best
1:31:50
possible way to watch because everyone goes through so much.
1:31:53
I feel that sense of defeat. I feel that sense of they've not
1:31:56
achieved anything and they've lost hand along the way.
1:31:59
But you still get that little smitten of hope, the fact that,
1:32:03
OK, they've gone through defeat, but they've all lived.
1:32:06
The. They're still alive and they
1:32:07
lived to fight another day and I just feel that image
1:32:10
encapsulates that perfectly. Lovely.
1:32:13
For his work on The Empire Strikes Bar, PS Ashitsky
1:32:16
received no award recognition, but his career afterwards was
1:32:18
pretty stellar. Wesley, you mentioned that he
1:32:20
shot Crawl in 1983, one of the great terrible films, and then
1:32:25
he became a big collaborator with David Cronenberg and shot
1:32:28
10 Cronenberg films, including Dead Ringers, Naked Launch
1:32:31
Crash, Existent History of Violence.
1:32:34
He also worked with Tim Burton on Mars Attacks or some career
1:32:37
he had he. Did actually, yeah.
1:32:39
Really interesting films. Last but certainly not least,
1:32:48
we're looking at the special effects work on Empire.
1:32:50
The team responsible for that was Lucas own Industrial Light
1:32:53
and Magic, headed by Richard Edlund, Dennis Muir and Phil
1:32:56
Tibbett. And they were responsible for
1:32:58
the 600 effects shots in the movie, almost double the 360
1:33:01
that Star Wars had. Yeah.
1:33:04
Did ILM hit the standard here, do we think, Matt?
1:33:08
Oh yeah, amazing work. I mean, I won't talk about Hoth
1:33:11
in the at Arts because what those special effects do
1:33:14
brilliantly there, which I love when they achieve this with
1:33:17
practical effect work, is it gives them a sense of character
1:33:20
despite the fact that they're just machines, but they've got a
1:33:22
real sense of menace to them. It's I think that's what we
1:33:24
Harry Housing used to do brilliantly in the 50s and 60s
1:33:27
and 70s, even with his best work tear.
1:33:30
Loss like turns his head in Jason that reminds you of an at
1:33:33
at when he's like on all tours he's doing yeah that's just as
1:33:37
terrifying it. Is that's exactly the same vibe
1:33:40
I get from that. Yeah, Jason, you know, that's
1:33:41
when Taos comes live and he's stomping all over the island
1:33:44
trying to, you know, stomp on Jason and his men.
1:33:47
That's exactly the the feeling I get.
1:33:49
From the ads. Absolutely love them.
1:33:51
Totally medicine. So memorable.
1:33:53
With the ads, Lucas knew that he wanted the big snow battle but
1:33:56
wasn't sure what vehicles to use.
1:33:58
There was a concept artist called Joe Johnson who came up
1:34:00
with the idea of walking tanks based on the tripod from the War
1:34:03
of the World by Issue Wells. Yeah.
1:34:06
And designs that you've seen by Sid Mead, the concept of arts on
1:34:09
Blade Runner that he'd done for US Steel.
1:34:11
And from that George Johnson designed the look of the arts.
1:34:14
Just superb design work. Yeah, it's.
1:34:16
Real And in terms of animating the arts, they used stop motion,
1:34:19
which is very Harryhausen. That's why it has that kind of
1:34:22
look. And it was an animator called
1:34:23
John Berg who led on the arts and the whole look of it.
1:34:27
But it took him 13 months working 14 hours a day to do all
1:34:32
the animations. Holy.
1:34:33
Shit. 14 hours a day for over a year, but you're sick of the
1:34:38
sight of them. Yeah, it was stop motion, but in
1:34:44
terms of how it was filmed, it was all in camera.
1:34:46
So they had scale sets of the snow and with matte paintings by
1:34:49
Ralph Macquarie, the concept artist Star Wars, to create the
1:34:51
mountains and the background sky.
1:34:53
So what we see on the screen is how it looked when they were
1:34:55
actually filming. It looks fantastic.
1:34:58
Does I? Just absolutely love where they
1:35:00
went with the space battles on this.
1:35:02
You were in the cockpit, you are getting them point of view
1:35:04
shots. But this one, like you said
1:35:06
earlier, John, that the Falcon sweeping up and down towards the
1:35:09
camera and then and I've dug the VHS out to watch it this week,
1:35:12
believe it or not, and I've plugged it in and it's still as
1:35:15
good. It's really grainy and really
1:35:18
crap and the sounds awful and the grit.
1:35:21
And every ship as well, they're all scale models as well and the
1:35:24
filmed against a blue screen. And then what they did was they
1:35:27
would move them in various ways, so authorized on pulleys or
1:35:29
movable rods or to move the camera.
1:35:31
So it all gives you the illusion of movement and they do the same
1:35:34
with anything else in the shots that asteroid feel, for example
1:35:37
those asteroids moving in the same way and it all gets
1:35:39
composited into the same shot. Yeah, that's right.
1:35:42
Through. For example, any shots where we
1:35:43
see the Millennium Falcon slipping towards the camera or
1:35:45
diving between Star Destroyers, it's usually the camera that's
1:35:47
moving, not the Falcon, even though it looks like the Falcon.
1:35:50
Yeah, yeah. But that Mormon though, and I
1:35:52
think it's probably the the best bit off that sequence when that
1:35:54
TIE fighter hits the asteroid and spins into the camera,
1:35:57
that's that's about 1.7 seconds on screen.
1:36:00
But from start to finish took three weeks to complete with the
1:36:03
team of animators. Wow.
1:36:05
And that's one shot of many, isn't it it?
1:36:07
Stayed at we had for 30 years, so it's totally good.
1:36:10
Job development that Empire had started pretty much straight
1:36:14
after Star Wars was released in 1977.
1:36:17
But the issue that Lucas had was because it's there by LM
1:36:19
specifically for Star Wars. After Star Wars was finished,
1:36:23
ILM had no other projects so Lucas had to close it down.
1:36:26
He then had to re establish Ireland for Empire, but
1:36:28
obviously the people who worked there like John Dykstra, they'd
1:36:31
all moved on. So Lucas had the race staff,
1:36:33
almost the entire company and they eventually had a team of
1:36:36
100 who worked on Empire and the majority of them had to work 15
1:36:39
hour days to hit the deadlines for the film.
1:36:42
Everyone working their asses off for Lucas the Taskmaster.
1:36:49
I mean it did turn out worth it because for their work on the
1:36:51
Empire Strike Spark, ILM did win Best Visual Effects at the
1:36:54
Oscars and this time after the film wrapped, Lucas didn't shoot
1:36:58
ILM down and they're still probably the biggest visual
1:37:01
effects I was out there. So all is well that ends well.
1:37:04
Indeed. There is a wider crew and Empire
1:37:07
which is a special mention as well.
1:37:09
Ralph Macquarie is concept artist, Ben Burr is a sound
1:37:11
designer, Norman Reynolds the production designer and John
1:37:14
Molow was the costume designer. All did iconic work and in terms
1:37:18
of the crew as a whole, I think it's difficult to overstate the
1:37:21
importance of their contributions.
1:37:22
No, exactly. It's just like the cast read
1:37:24
about at the start. Yeah, you have to read the whole
1:37:26
crew out. Not a single person could be
1:37:28
left out. The.
1:37:33
End. The final act of The Empire
1:37:37
Strikes Back is among the most famous and iconic in Hollywood,
1:37:40
and we're going all in on it. We'll be talking about the
1:37:43
climactic lightsaber jewel between Luke Skywalker and Darth
1:37:46
Vader, but before we get to that, we've got some carbonite
1:37:49
that needs freezing. I've just made a deal that will
1:37:52
keep the Empire out of here forever.
1:38:04
We would be honoured if you would join us.
1:38:07
Having escaped the Empire by floating away with the rest of
1:38:10
the garbage, Han and Leah had the Bespin, the city in the
1:38:12
clouds to meet up with an old pile of hands in Landau
1:38:15
Calrissian. Unfortunately for them, though,
1:38:18
the Empire have got there first. In the following scenes we meet
1:38:22
Landau bounty hunter Boba Fett and Sea Han frozen in carbonite.
1:38:26
Massive, right? Huge.
1:38:28
Too big what? Do you think Westie too big?
1:38:30
I can't. Handle it.
1:38:34
I think it's fantastic. The whole design of that whole
1:38:36
place is is is amazing. And I think this whole dialogue
1:38:41
sequence between Ford and Fisher is just wonderful.
1:38:44
I think it's a really great, powerful car at the moment.
1:38:47
I think the way it looks is outrageous.
1:38:50
It's just so palpable. I guess you just want to like
1:38:54
just really just get involved. You want to be there, take a
1:38:57
place that I want to visit. It's like somewhere that you
1:38:59
want to go and say it looks just so real and just, but at the
1:39:02
same time weird. But yeah, I love Lando.
1:39:05
I love the fact that you can't really trust him.
1:39:08
And it's so good. Yeah.
1:39:09
It's just, it's a fantastic sequence.
1:39:11
Really, really brilliant. Yeah, we've been in space and on
1:39:13
the Falcon with Han and Leah for quite a while at this point, so
1:39:16
the setting changed to Bespin is the right thing to do.
1:39:18
The City in the Cloud was actually designed for Star Wars,
1:39:20
originally as an Imperial prison, but it was never used,
1:39:23
so Lucas reused it here. It works.
1:39:25
Looks perfect. Yeah, it looks great.
1:39:28
Got that moment. That moment when Lando opens the
1:39:30
door and Veda standing there, that is one of the great
1:39:33
surprise reveals and reactions. Instant and drawing his blaster.
1:39:36
But, and we know how good Han Solo is, but he's no match
1:39:40
whatsoever for Veda. Just force pulls the gun out of
1:39:43
his hand like he's a child. Fantastic.
1:39:46
And the moment the hand is frozen in carbonite, the drama
1:39:48
where the music and the cinematography combine, it's
1:39:50
just off the charts. I love the bit after he's been
1:39:53
frozen as well, and the workers push him over and he slams
1:39:56
against the floor. Yeah, brilliantly put together
1:39:58
by Kirchner. All that heartbreaking.
1:40:00
I mean, yeah, this is the empire at their best.
1:40:02
Invader is best. And you've got Boba Fett in
1:40:05
there and three people gets blown to smithereens.
1:40:07
I mean, great. That's that's a problem with
1:40:10
that. Sure we should.
1:40:11
Have left him in the scrap yard, but apart from that, brilliant.
1:40:15
Yeah. Yeah, when he's frozen in
1:40:17
carbonite, I just love the way that's lit because that orange
1:40:20
that's coming up from almost red contrasting day, how dark that
1:40:24
blue is on the upper level. It gives it a real like imagery
1:40:27
of hell to me. That's what it feels like
1:40:29
because then he got the old notes scamping around doing all
1:40:32
their stuff and they look like goblins.
1:40:34
Invader is just towering over everyone and you've got all the
1:40:37
steam billowing up from below. It's got a real like satanic
1:40:40
feel to it, this scene, and I know a hand has been forcing
1:40:43
because of being told that, but it feels like he's going to be
1:40:46
burnt at the stake. That's what it looks like.
1:40:47
He's going to be sacrificed. But that's the feel that this
1:40:50
whole scene has. He's.
1:40:51
Feared as lying as well isn't it when he's like he's he speaks to
1:40:54
Boba Fett and he's like the will compensate you if he dies.
1:40:57
Like what the fuck? That's it.
1:41:00
That's it. Exactly.
1:41:01
Like everything is escalated so quickly at this point.
1:41:05
You like, you can't believe what he said.
1:41:06
Like, oh, is this actually happening?
1:41:08
Are they in that much of a bad trouble?
1:41:10
Is Luke going to rescue them? And they're like, no, no, he's
1:41:13
not. This is, you know, this is how
1:41:14
screwed they are. And this is what I mean by
1:41:16
saying, like, the film is exhausted in a good way because
1:41:19
they've just gotten away from the empire on, like, two or
1:41:22
three occasions, and you're like, God, can they not just get
1:41:25
away for good this time? Obviously they don't.
1:41:28
But what makes it for me is Chewy's reaction.
1:41:30
Like, everyone loves Chewy. We know how much he loves on.
1:41:33
And those cries of anguish he's given out, which is must be
1:41:36
like, fear and anger and grief, really upsetting.
1:41:39
And you just say if Chewy's thought upset and scared by it,
1:41:42
I should be really scared and upset by it.
1:41:44
Yeah. Brilliant.
1:41:44
Sane. Yeah.
1:41:46
Also on Harrison Ford, there's quite a few Ford adlibs in the
1:41:49
film. Do you know any of them?
1:41:51
Well, yeah, I mean, there's the famous one that everyone knows,
1:41:55
that everyone kind of quotes. Everyone tries to be that cool,
1:41:57
like if you misses, goes I love you.
1:41:59
I know. And it never works.
1:42:00
It never worked. But just as Hannah's about to be
1:42:04
frozen, Leah says I love you. And Han replies, I know, as we
1:42:07
all do. But the I know wasn't in the
1:42:09
script and Ford and Kirschner came up with it together.
1:42:12
And apparently Cars Down was furious that it got changed
1:42:14
because he thought was some of his best writing.
1:42:16
And George Lucas didn't like it either and was only convinced
1:42:20
when they had the test screen and audiences just went crazy
1:42:23
when it happened. Just it was absolutely
1:42:25
fantastic. But I don't understand what Cars
1:42:27
Down was worried about. What?
1:42:28
How is that his best writing? I love you.
1:42:30
What's he going to say? Well.
1:42:31
In the scripty Rd. You know what hands line was
1:42:33
originally the cars down Rd. That's what I need to know.
1:42:36
So Leah said I love you and Han replied.
1:42:38
Just remember that, Leah, because I'll be back.
1:42:42
Schwarzenegger. Arnold.
1:42:47
I mean, yeah, if we're taking from Arnold when Lando said
1:42:49
they're going to freeze him in carbonite and should have said
1:42:51
you're not sending Matos a cooler, surely.
1:42:57
That would have been a Bad and Robin reference into the Empire,
1:42:59
ladies and gentlemen. There's another house in Ford.
1:43:05
I'd live in there as well. When Lando was about to lead him
1:43:07
into the trap, he offers his arm there.
1:43:10
Ford improvised hand coming up behind Leah and offering his arm
1:43:13
to wear at the same time. And seeing you all smoothie to
1:43:16
Lando. Nice.
1:43:18
I like that bit. We also meet two more supporting
1:43:21
characters here who became pretty famous in their own right
1:43:24
in Lando Calrissian, the businessman who runs Bespin,
1:43:27
played by Billy Dee Williams, and Boba Fett, the bounty hunter
1:43:30
who tracked them down, played by Jeremy Bullock.
1:43:32
Yeah. What do you think of those two
1:43:34
as characters? I really like Lando.
1:43:37
I think he's got an instant presence to him, which he needs
1:43:39
because if he if he's built up as someone hand trusts enough to
1:43:42
go to, to hide out with him, he's got to have something about
1:43:45
him. And I think, yeah, Billy Dee
1:43:47
Williams just bring that. And it is a strange one because
1:43:50
his character changes so fast, like these 20 minutes, you can't
1:43:54
keep it up. Like, oh, no, he's a friend.
1:43:56
No, wait, Leah doesn't trust him.
1:43:58
Oh, actually, no, he seems OK. No, actually, he's betrayed
1:44:00
everyone. Oh, no, he's going to save them.
1:44:01
He's helping by the end. Like, it probably spins your
1:44:04
head around, but at the end, and I'm kind of OK with the fact
1:44:07
that he's taken over the Falkland because that should be
1:44:10
a total no, no, anyone other than hand flying.
1:44:12
That should feel wrong, especially some dude we've only
1:44:15
just met. But I'm like, OK, right now I
1:44:18
can go with this. And I think Billy D Williams
1:44:20
deserves a lot of credit for, for one thing, just making sense
1:44:23
the character to begin with and getting you to be on board with
1:44:26
him by the end. See, I really like Lando.
1:44:28
Yeah, he's. The Apollo Creed, the hands
1:44:30
Rocky, isn't he? But it doesn't take two films
1:44:32
exactly. Yeah.
1:44:36
I mean, originally Lando's name was Lando Cador, and one of the
1:44:40
first ideas for him was to have him as a clone who survived the
1:44:43
Clone Wars, which is pretty cool.
1:44:46
He led legions of clones on a planet where they settled.
1:44:49
One of the idea that Lando is the descendant of survivors of
1:44:53
the Clone Wars, born into a family who reproduced solely by
1:44:56
cloning. Now that just to me, it's just
1:44:59
too complicated. That's just weird.
1:45:01
Does. It have to be so complicated.
1:45:04
That's just George Lucas all over.
1:45:05
Let's have Lando as a clone, but he lives on a planet with just
1:45:08
clones, and they're just by being clones.
1:45:14
Yeah, well, Billy Dee Williams actually auditioned for the part
1:45:16
of Harding Star Wars, but that didn't make him a shoe in to
1:45:18
play Lando. The first person Lucas actually
1:45:20
offered the role to was Yafed Kodor, but he said no because he
1:45:25
didn't want to be typecast in science fiction films after
1:45:27
recently doing Parker an Alien. And that was when Billy Dee
1:45:31
Williams came in and he said Lando was much like me, a pretty
1:45:35
cool guy, if he would say so himself.
1:45:42
No, I am a big, big fan of Boba Fett.
1:45:44
Like I said, he was frankly favorite character from the
1:45:46
series because he was just so mysterious and just so cool and
1:45:50
just had like this real persona and you didn't know who it was.
1:45:54
And he was just like cool and Jedi and he was like straight
1:45:56
out of there. But in this you see all the
1:45:59
bounty hunters there, but none of them matter.
1:46:01
Global Fets that you just see Boba Fett, you're like, that's
1:46:03
the guy. That's the guy right there.
1:46:05
No disintegrations. Brilliant.
1:46:07
It's just no disintegrations, but OK.
1:46:09
Yeah, I'll try me best. Maybe not.
1:46:13
Maybe I'll try. But he's not even scared of
1:46:15
Darth Vader. He's just as you wish.
1:46:17
Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'll do what I want to do.
1:46:19
And I love that. And I just love the idea of
1:46:21
bounty hunters. And I just love that whole
1:46:23
thing. When I was a kid and I watched
1:46:24
that and I thought it's just just so cool of like, just, it
1:46:28
just really worked for me. Even though he's the person who
1:46:30
takes Han Solo away, I'm quite happy that it's him.
1:46:34
You know what I mean? It's not like somebody that you
1:46:35
thought, oh, he's not cool enough to take Han Solo away.
1:46:38
Boba Fett is definitely cool enough to take Han Solo away.
1:46:41
Yeah. So it totally works for me.
1:46:42
Yeah, he only has five lines in the film, but you're right, he's
1:46:45
only character and the whole film would not scared a Darth
1:46:47
Vader. Yeah, and he tracks the Falcon,
1:46:49
sells that information to the Empire, then sticks around and
1:46:52
takes hand off a jab by the hood where he gets paid again and he
1:46:55
gets the Empire. I do all the work for him.
1:46:56
He doesn't do anything. He gets 2 pages.
1:46:59
That's probably however. He knows what he's doing, yeah.
1:47:02
And he's played by Jeremy Bullock.
1:47:04
And if you look on his armor, if you look closely, you can see
1:47:06
he's got a Wookie scalp on there.
1:47:08
But Bullock wasn't told what it was.
1:47:10
So when he first put the costume on, he thought it was a
1:47:12
hairpiece. So he put it on under the
1:47:14
helmet, which ended up sticking out the sides and then cursing
1:47:17
us on and disperse. Our laughing was like, no, no
1:47:20
Jeremy, that's not what it's for.
1:47:26
Huge sequence there, then some big drama the last time we see
1:47:29
Han in the film and one of Star Wars most powerful sequences.
1:47:33
Absolutely. Easily.
1:47:36
I love you. I know, moving on to the climax
1:47:43
of the film now then, and it's another big one, isn't it?
1:47:47
Luke Skywalker versus Darth Vader.
1:47:52
The Force is with you, young Skywalker, but you are not a
1:47:58
Jedi yet. Having abandoned his fourth
1:48:01
training on Take About, Luke arrives at Bespin to save his
1:48:03
friends. Doesn't go that well for Luke,
1:48:06
does it? Not really, no.
1:48:07
He kind of folks it a bit. Arriving too late to save her
1:48:12
and he loses the lightsaber fight to Darth Vader before
1:48:14
finding out. Even worse, he's a son of Vader.
1:48:18
Even more massive this Thoughts on the lightsaber duel between
1:48:21
Luke and Vader. It's one of those moments where
1:48:24
it's so iconic. I can't imagine how it felt
1:48:26
watching it at the time because you'd have had so many kids who
1:48:31
loved Star Wars and would have like flocked to the cinema to
1:48:33
see this and, and now probably just traumatized out of their
1:48:36
minds by how dark it's got. And just when you think right,
1:48:40
it's probably going to be OK from now on.
1:48:42
You've got this deal, which is brilliantly shot.
1:48:45
It's really exciting. Love them flying around.
1:48:47
But then BAM, of course, Luke's hand, like God almighty, what
1:48:52
else is the film going to put you through?
1:48:53
Because the film, it's just so confident in what it's doing
1:48:56
here. It knows it's pushing the
1:48:57
boundaries, but it doesn't care because it just knows this is
1:49:01
the right thing to do. This is what we're going to do,
1:49:03
going to chop the hand off the main character and we'll get
1:49:06
away with it. And even I want to watch it,
1:49:08
it's so like it is, it's still so shocking.
1:49:11
Just the violence of it, just like bomb whipped straight off.
1:49:14
Like holy shit that I just seen that.
1:49:18
But then right after that again, Luke takes the big fall in more
1:49:21
proof of our Jedi can fall really great distances and be
1:49:24
okay. I mean he's falling hundreds of
1:49:26
feet. He not just 50.
1:49:28
Feet off the. Butt off the bottom of not add
1:49:30
and he's still okay. Straighten that shoe.
1:49:32
Doesn't smash his spine a bit. You know, it's ridiculous, but I
1:49:35
love it all the same. And then when he's hanging off
1:49:37
the the aerial at the bottom of Cloud City, I love that pushing
1:49:40
you get on Leah's face when she lukes there, tells Lando to go
1:49:44
back and rescue him. And then obviously the TIE
1:49:46
fighters are on the tail again. It's just fantastic.
1:49:49
Love it all. Yeah, I mean, firstly, this has
1:49:52
to be the worst rescue mission ever by anybody.
1:49:55
Luke leaves Jagava or full of it.
1:49:57
I've had a vision only I can save my friends.
1:49:59
He gets there, doesn't save anyone or even help him escape.
1:50:02
Comes across Vader, gets his ass handed to him and his hand
1:50:06
chopped off and gets given some psychological trauma.
1:50:08
The boot. He goes there to save his
1:50:10
friends and his friends end up saving him.
1:50:12
Rubbish. Jet high.
1:50:13
But obviously the lightsaber fight is brilliant.
1:50:16
Vader appearing at the top of the stairs in this line.
1:50:19
You are not a Jedi yet. Fantastic storytelling that.
1:50:23
I like how Luke climbs the stairs and it's he who turned
1:50:25
his lifesaver on first. He wants to fight Veda like.
1:50:28
He does in The Cave. Yeah, fancies his chances, and
1:50:30
he definitely shouldn't, but to be fair, he holds his own for a
1:50:33
bit. And then Vera goes into like,
1:50:35
second gear, I suppose. And the plot twist?
1:50:38
I mean, that'll never be topped, surely?
1:50:40
Not only is it a great twist, it happens in one of the most
1:50:42
anticipated films ever made. Double whammy.
1:50:45
It turns Star Wars from a good versus evil kind of fairy tale
1:50:48
to the Skywalker saga, which is definitely for the best.
1:50:52
To be fair though, if you tell someone you're their dad and
1:50:54
they instantly instantly try to kill themselves, you might want
1:50:58
to have a look at yourself. Yeah, but if you Darth Vader
1:51:02
then that's the reaction you want.
1:51:05
Yeah, probably. Probably, yeah.
1:51:06
That's good. I've got quite a bit to say on
1:51:11
this because I think there's a lot in this sequence that people
1:51:14
kind of don't pick up on that isn't true.
1:51:18
Maybe isn't Wesley. Theory is this.
1:51:20
Wesley theory. But I just it's just what I get
1:51:22
from it. And I think that the fact of you
1:51:26
watch him and like you said, that Luke ignites his Sabre
1:51:29
first and goes for it. It's just in this whole
1:51:31
sequence, I just think Theodore's just going easy on
1:51:33
him all the way through it. Watch the whole thing.
1:51:35
He's just going easy on him. He's just deflecting him.
1:51:37
He's just moving him around. He's like right here and looks
1:51:40
like, wow, OK, come on. Then he keeps going up and he's
1:51:42
like, look, just stop, stop. And it's just a real lesson.
1:51:45
And just somebody just going like calm down.
1:51:47
And he's like using the Force to like move stuff and just hit him
1:51:49
and hits the window by accident. Luke flies out and then you get
1:51:52
that reaction from here. He hasn't got any emotion on his
1:51:54
face. We get that reaction like, oh,
1:51:56
shit, he's gone up the window right off.
1:51:58
Go and get him. I'll talk.
1:51:59
And it's just this kind of discussion with these Sony sons
1:52:02
just like come in. And he's just like, look at my
1:52:06
calm down. Doing this, doing this, doing
1:52:08
this. And I do think that there's a
1:52:11
thing that people don't really talk about.
1:52:12
And that lightsaber that he's using is Anakin's lightsaber
1:52:15
from the first film. And he cuts it off his hand and
1:52:18
cuts his hand off to just remove himself totally from Luke and
1:52:22
remove himself totally from who he used to be.
1:52:24
And I think that's why that's so significant and cutting the
1:52:27
whole hand off and just making sure that a hand that grows
1:52:29
back, which it does in Jedi is reminiscent of the dark side
1:52:32
with the black glove and the mechanics, which becomes Darth
1:52:35
Theatre itself. So I think that hand becomes
1:52:38
almost like what Darth Vader has to be or what Anakin has to be
1:52:40
and wanted him to become part of that whole psyche, which he is,
1:52:44
which he does. I think it's a really father and
1:52:47
son sequence. And I think if you've had a if
1:52:49
you have a son and if he does kick off, this is exactly what
1:52:53
it's like trying to calm him down.
1:52:57
So to me it's it's a beautifully, beautifully made,
1:52:59
beautifully made piece of cinema and wonderful.
1:53:02
Well, Lucas obviously knew what he had with the big I am your
1:53:05
father moment so wanted to keep it a big secret.
1:53:08
Have you heard what they did on the set to do that?
1:53:10
Specifically to poor David Prowse?
1:53:12
No. Yeah, well, he was a notorious
1:53:15
blabbermouth, and he was always revealing pop points for the
1:53:18
films because Lucas had the idea like a couple of years
1:53:21
previously this was going to happen.
1:53:22
And he vaguely mentioned to it, and probably Prowse had gone to
1:53:25
a convention and was just telling anyone who would listen.
1:53:28
Oh yeah, Vader, Luke's father. You know, that's what's going to
1:53:30
happen in the next one. Unbelievable.
1:53:33
So to stop and continue doing it because obviously, you know,
1:53:35
before Twitter so wasn't going to get around that much.
1:53:38
They gave Proust a script which had the line Obi Wan killed your
1:53:40
father instead. Then they had to tell Hamel what
1:53:43
the actual line was right before filming so Hamel would give the
1:53:46
correct reaction for it instead. Yeah.
1:53:48
Mark Hamill said the Kirchner pulled him to one side and said,
1:53:51
now I know this and George knows this, and now you're going to
1:53:55
know this. But if you tell anybody, Carrie
1:53:58
Harrison, anybody, we'll know it was you.
1:54:02
Really. Medicine.
1:54:04
Yeah. There's a good story from the
1:54:06
premier as well. At the point when their theater
1:54:08
said I'm your father, Harrison Ford leaned over to Mark Hamill
1:54:11
and said, hey, kid, you never fucking told me.
1:54:17
Which is testament to Hamill, really.
1:54:19
And. Apparently, Proud was furious
1:54:23
they'd never been told the truth.
1:54:24
Because, he said if I'd known, my acting would have been
1:54:27
completely different. I'm pretty sure you're standing
1:54:32
there perfectly still at that point.
1:54:34
You would have kept your fist closed.
1:54:38
Thing is though. Like, this is back in the day
1:54:40
when they made novelizations of films, and the novelization came
1:54:44
out a month earlier, which was written by a guy called Donald F
1:54:46
Glut. And obviously, the big reveal is
1:54:48
in there anyway. So, you know, it was probably
1:54:50
known by a fair few people. Yeah.
1:54:52
Different times. I mean, if that happened now
1:54:54
would be posted on social media millions of times within a few
1:54:57
hours. Oh yeah?
1:54:59
What? All sequence, though?
1:55:00
One of the most iconic in Hollywood.
1:55:03
Love it. Yeah, Absolutely love it.
1:55:04
Yeah. Obi Wan never told you what
1:55:08
happened to your father. He.
1:55:10
Told me enough. He told me.
1:55:12
You killed. It No.
1:55:15
I am your father. And for me, we're at the end of
1:55:24
the movie looking Lee. I meet back up with the rebel
1:55:26
fleet and with Luke recovering from his injuries, chewing and
1:55:29
Lando head off in the Falcon to rescue Hand from Jabba the Hood.
1:55:32
I'm not entirely sure why Lando was wearing Hans clothes, that's
1:55:36
really weird. It's really weird, but.
1:55:38
Apart from that, a satisfying climax for the film.
1:55:42
Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
1:55:44
I end as well. Really neat.
1:55:47
Really neat top button. Don't know these fit perfectly.
1:55:52
Thanks so very much. Surely you get clothes anyway.
1:55:55
You have to wear hands. Shit that's really nobody's nose
1:55:57
in it. Chew back an extra 1 off of
1:56:00
folks. It's probably like when you go
1:56:01
on work experience, they say you go find a kind of strike here to
1:56:04
he's probably said, oh you want to fight for oh you got to wear
1:56:07
hands glow. Sorry, not do that.
1:56:09
That's. Beautiful.
1:56:24
Reception and awards. Big things were expected at the
1:56:28
box office for The Empire Strikes Back, and while it
1:56:31
didn't perform as well as Star Wars, it was still a massive
1:56:34
hit. From a final budget of $30.5
1:56:37
million, Empire grossed approximately $550 million
1:56:41
worldwide. It took more than five times as
1:56:43
much as any other film that year and was the second highest
1:56:46
grossing film ever after Star Wars, so didn't do too badly.
1:56:50
Not too. Shabby 30 million is not bad
1:56:52
either for that budget. No, not at all.
1:56:55
Before the film was released, though, Lucas did have some
1:56:57
trouble from the director of Guild of America regarding the
1:57:00
credits, right? Have you heard much about that?
1:57:02
Nope. Yeah, it's all because of the
1:57:05
open and crawl, which Lucas wanted to do that again and
1:57:09
therefore he wanted to run the credits, the end like he did
1:57:11
with Star Wars. But he only got away with that
1:57:13
in the 1st place because back then they thought the film was
1:57:16
going to be a flop, so they didn't really care what he did.
1:57:18
But obviously this time around, the new Empire, he was going to
1:57:20
be massive. So they're told him no, no, the
1:57:22
credits have to be the start this time.
1:57:24
So Lucas refused. The DTA tried to sort of been
1:57:27
released, which failed. So then the handed out fines to
1:57:30
Lucas and Kirchner, $250,000 each.
1:57:34
Lucas paid up both of those himself, and then he resigned
1:57:36
from the DGA and the WGA, which is why for Return of the Jedi,
1:57:41
he hired Richard Marquand to direct that, because Lucas had
1:57:44
to hire somebody who also wasn't a member of the Directors Guild.
1:57:48
Wow. Yeah.
1:57:51
Yeah, it's one of the first films, wasn't it?
1:57:53
Because a lot of this, a lot of the films like in the 70s, late
1:57:56
70s, even early 80s, had all the credits at the front.
1:57:59
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes, of crawl.
1:58:01
Yeah, first. Ones it just be like even Star
1:58:03
Wars was probably the first film.
1:58:04
They just be like film. That's it.
1:58:07
Yeah, Credits. At the end, I don't want there's
1:58:09
this probably more, but off the top of my head I kind of think
1:58:11
of one more iconic than Star Wars.
1:58:13
Really. No.
1:58:15
Well, critics, why is the film didn't receive the long reviews
1:58:17
of Star Wars, but they were still positive.
1:58:20
So Roger Ebert, the Artful Dodger.
1:58:22
Did he like it, Rog? I reckon he did.
1:58:26
He did four stars out of four and he called it a visual
1:58:29
extravaganza with fantastic storytelling that creates in us
1:58:32
a sense of wonder. Nice loves a miserable film,
1:58:35
Rog, Shouldn't he? No, he does.
1:58:37
He does. Writing for Time, Joella Clark
1:58:40
said Empire surpasses Star Wars in several ways, including being
1:58:44
more visually and artistically interesting.
1:58:46
True. And he said Yoda is the
1:58:49
highlight when he should have obviously said the highlight.
1:58:51
The odor is very nice. Janet Maslin.
1:58:57
Even Janet Maslin has some good things to say about it.
1:58:59
Wow. She said it's a success because
1:59:02
Star Wars was such an uncommonly hard act to follow.
1:59:05
It's no Small wonder that the first film had been followed at
1:59:07
all, though she had some criticisms for Lando as a
1:59:11
character, and she said he was exaggeratedly unctuous,
1:59:14
untrustworthy and loaded with jive.
1:59:20
That's just the character he has plays on and he's great.
1:59:26
That's it, just the plays. Since then, of course, Empire
1:59:30
State has grown stronger and stronger through the years and
1:59:32
now regularly figures at the top end of greatest ever movies
1:59:35
lists. In 2014, Empire Magazine had a
1:59:38
reader's poll where 250,000 people voted to find the
1:59:41
greatest movie of all time, and Empire came out number one.
1:59:45
The godfather #2 to the end. Rotten Tomatoes Empire has 94%
1:59:50
from critics and 97% from audiences, and an IMDb a huge
1:59:55
8.7 out of 10 #15 on their top 250 list, one place above The
2:00:00
Matrix and one below Lord of the Rings.
2:00:02
The Two Towers. At the Oscars, Empire won best
2:00:05
sound and best visual effects. It was nominated for best art
2:00:08
direction and best score. So Empire has a huge film
2:00:12
nowadays, and it was that way straight out of the gate really.
2:00:15
A box office megahit, acclaim, critically won a few awards, are
2:00:18
now regarded as one of the great movie sequels.
2:00:21
I would. Say so.
2:00:22
Absolutely there's. Not much like it.
2:00:28
Sequels and influence. The Empire Strikes Back was a
2:00:32
sequel of course, and has been followed by lots of other Star
2:00:35
Wars films including Lucas prequel trilogy, the Disney
2:00:38
sequel trilogy, and a few animations and anthology films
2:00:41
as well. We're not going to talk about
2:00:44
any of those for two main reasons.
2:00:46
Firstly, there's far too many, we don't have time, and most of
2:00:49
them are rubbish. And secondly, we now have a
2:00:53
YouTube channel and I plan to cover a few Star Wars movies
2:00:56
there maybe, so keep an eye out for those.
2:00:58
Yep. What we do have though, is a
2:01:01
period question on one of the latest Star Wars films and
2:01:04
Empire. OK, so Andy Sillerman.
2:01:07
Hello, Andy. Hello, Andy.
2:01:08
Andy has a question for us and here it is.
2:01:11
Hi. Guys Andy here, Empire and Rogue
2:01:13
One for me are the best in the series and make a great trilogy
2:01:16
along with Star Wars as they both have a darker tone to them.
2:01:20
Which? Do you prefer?
2:01:22
Westy. Out of Rogue One and Empire.
2:01:25
Yeah. I have to say that I prefer
2:01:29
Empire because Rogue One wouldn't be Rogue One without
2:01:32
Empire. Really.
2:01:33
It's a huge influence on that film.
2:01:35
But I do love where they went with Rogue One.
2:01:37
I do think it was a fantastic retelling of a prequel to Star
2:01:42
Wars, and I love Darth Vader in that.
2:01:44
But I do think there was a bit too Fox.
2:01:46
If Darth Vader was like that in Empire, it wouldn't be as good
2:01:50
because you could just throw a look around and people flying
2:01:53
everywhere, and I think they took that a little bit too far.
2:01:56
But I thought it was great. I thought it was really, really
2:01:58
good to see it updated for a new audience and a new generation.
2:02:01
So I think Rogue One is my kids empire, but Empire is my empire.
2:02:07
Yeah, I like Rogue One very much.
2:02:09
It's far from perfect, and I think it could have been a lot
2:02:11
better than it was. I'll keep the details for if we
2:02:13
ever do one of those videos on Rogue One, but I do like it a
2:02:16
lot. The main thing they've got right
2:02:17
for me is the visuals. It looks like Star Wars, or how
2:02:21
I think Star Wars looks at its best it's got.
2:02:23
The right tone, it's. Grounded and it's dirty.
2:02:25
It's got some good world building, classic Star Wars
2:02:27
stuff that was completely overlooked in the Disney
2:02:30
trilogy. It's not as good as Empire as it
2:02:32
is narratively flawed sometimes, but Rogue One is easily, easily
2:02:35
the best Star Wars film outside the original trilogy for me.
2:02:38
Yeah. I would totally agree with that.
2:02:40
It's got the right tone. Definitely.
2:02:42
Yeah, very much in agreement. I like the film a lot as well,
2:02:44
but no, I can't put it anywhere near Empire.
2:02:47
I do find and I've always found the 1st 20 minutes to Rogue one
2:02:50
a bit all over the place. I think it takes a while to
2:02:52
settle in the the story wants to tell.
2:02:55
It jumps around from character to planet quite a lot and like
2:02:57
it's a bit hectic and I've never liked the the CGI Peter cushion
2:03:04
talk and I don't know why they just didn't recast it.
2:03:06
I don't think that worked at all for me.
2:03:09
They're they're the two main force.
2:03:10
But overall, I do like Rogue One a lot.
2:03:13
Actually. I think it is a very, very good
2:03:15
film, like Lot, but it's no Empire.
2:03:17
Yeah, the last 20 minutes of Rogue One is the Empire's race
2:03:20
back. The last 20 minutes.
2:03:22
Is worth your time. Fantastic.
2:03:23
Worth your? Time a huge film of course
2:03:25
Empire and films of that size do tend to have a knock on effect
2:03:28
on Hollywood in the years that follow.
2:03:30
How do you think we see the influence of Empire since it was
2:03:32
released? I think any blockbuster
2:03:35
franchise that tries to go darker for a sequel or have a
2:03:38
cliffhanger, so massive one that comes to mind as Avengers
2:03:42
Infinity Walks, that had a huge cliffhanger and it works really
2:03:45
well. It's a great cliffhanger.
2:03:47
I remember watching the cinema being really pretty standard by,
2:03:49
but the only thing is you knew watching it you only had to wait
2:03:52
a year for the next one to come along to resolve it.
2:03:55
Whereas with Empire, I don't know for sure, but I'm presuming
2:03:58
no one even knew when Returning the Jedi was coming out or even
2:04:01
if it would come out. So to send an audience out like
2:04:04
that, it's such a ballsy move. And I think a lot of films try
2:04:06
to recreate that, but I don't think they're ever going to do
2:04:10
it in the way that Empire did. And the other one I think really
2:04:14
takes off from Star Wars in general, but particularly
2:04:16
Empire. It's the Pirates, the Caribbean
2:04:18
franchise, because that first Pirates film, it's very light
2:04:22
and torn, the plots really straightforward.
2:04:24
It's really enjoyable. But then the sequel just brings
2:04:26
in loads more characters, really tries to like expand the
2:04:30
mythology, that particular world that it's set in.
2:04:32
And it ends, I think, with Jack Sparrow being dragged off in a
2:04:35
captivity beneath the sea by the Kraken.
2:04:37
I think it is. And then the the remaining
2:04:40
characters have to rely on Geoffrey Rush's villainous
2:04:42
character to form the rescue mission for the next film, which
2:04:45
I think is it's almost like beat for beat, a RIP off of Empire in
2:04:48
a lot of ways. Just absolutely, you know, and
2:04:51
he was good. So yeah, Pirates Caribbean, I
2:04:53
think really wants to be Star Wars and really wants to be
2:04:55
Empire. Yeah, I mean, obviously everyone
2:04:58
knows that Empire was a big influence on blockbusters in
2:05:00
general, but I think it's influence on sequels
2:05:02
specifically. It's just unparalleled.
2:05:05
Before Empire, blockbuster sequels tended to be very much
2:05:07
standalone stories. Things like James Bond and
2:05:10
Empire was the first. It was a direct continuation of
2:05:12
the story where you had to see the first film to really
2:05:14
understand what was going on. And that's been standard
2:05:16
practice since big movie series usually follow a trilogy model.
2:05:20
Back to the Future, The Dark Knight, The Matrix, Indiana
2:05:23
Jones, Plant of the Apes, all trilogies and that came directly
2:05:27
from Star Wars and Empire for the open ending for the second
2:05:30
film, The Matrix does that, Battle of the Future, Part 2,
2:05:33
The Two Towers all end with unresolved narratives leading
2:05:35
into a third film, again directly taken from Empire.
2:05:38
And mostly I think the darker second film has became a bit of
2:05:41
a cliche of movie series now. The Dark Knight, Temple of Doom,
2:05:45
Dawn of Planet of the Apes, all darker than the first films and
2:05:48
all influenced by Empire. I wish more people would have
2:05:51
taken influence from The Departure and the story that we
2:05:53
told you about the Empire made instead of just rehashing the
2:05:55
story from the first film, but I guess that's not as easy to do
2:05:58
as just making it a bit darker. But I mean of course Empire
2:06:02
massively influential to this day and I think you'll still see
2:06:04
Empires influence 50 years from now when we're all dead.
2:06:09
Long gone cheapy. We're putting this.
2:06:12
End of the podcast. Like Empire, just.
2:06:15
End on that word. When we're all dead, I've got
2:06:24
nothing else to say. Yeah, I mean, it is.
2:06:29
It's one of them stables where you just kind of go, you know,
2:06:32
if it wasn't vampire, would you have such an output from James
2:06:36
Cameron? What do you have the guts to
2:06:37
make aliens have you hadn't seen Empire Strikes Back?
2:06:40
You know, it's one of them films where you just watch it and go.
2:06:43
That was something that was just so massive in the 77 Star Wars.
2:06:48
And then we could take it somewhere else and we're doing
2:06:50
something else with it and we're giving it a new lease of life.
2:06:53
And we're exploring it in a dramatic tone and an emotional
2:06:57
tone. And to me, yes, it is darker,
2:07:00
but it's also more realistic. It's more you can buy into it.
2:07:04
And I think that's it's there's a humanitarian kind of vibe to
2:07:08
it where every character becomes a human being and every
2:07:11
character has an emotion. Whereas in Star Wars that wasn't
2:07:14
very evident, but in this it definitely is.
2:07:16
And I think a lot of people watched Empire Strikes Back and
2:07:18
went, holy shit, that's a sci-fi film with spaceships and Darth
2:07:23
Vader. But I still feel something from
2:07:25
it. So no matter what you do, no
2:07:27
matter what your genre is, you can still create that feeling.
2:07:30
And I think that's what Empire did.
2:07:32
And I think that's still what Empire does, to be honest.
2:07:34
I get some massive film. Empire carried on the phenomenon
2:07:38
that was Star Wars and made it even bigger.
2:07:40
Lots of sequels, most of them not very good for us.
2:07:43
But As for Empire, I think its influence is beyond question.
2:07:47
Beyond question, definitely, absolutely.
2:07:48
You agree? All the right movies.
2:07:56
So we're at the end of our Empire Strikes Back episode.
2:07:58
We've been through the full behind the scenes story and now
2:08:01
is the time when we decide where the film will sit in the All the
2:08:04
Right Movies leaderboard. So Matt, you want to start the
2:08:07
ball rolling Your summary and score for The Empire Strikes
2:08:09
Back please and. For me, Star Wars in general, I
2:08:13
don't quite have the love for that other people do.
2:08:16
I think out of us three, I think you 2 are bigger fans than I am.
2:08:19
So I don't really bring that nostalgic viewpoint to this.
2:08:23
Like as a kid, I just always prefer, I just always preferred
2:08:26
the indie films. So I know when we get around to
2:08:28
do in Temple of Dune, Last Crusade, I know for fact I'll be
2:08:31
given those marks out of pure nostalgia because I can't
2:08:33
separate it from those West of Star Wars.
2:08:35
I can't separate it a little bit.
2:08:37
So every mark that I want to give Empire, for me it has to be
2:08:40
really earned. And it's a film that I look at
2:08:43
and go special effects, music, production design, all
2:08:46
incredible. These characters are great.
2:08:48
The new characters are great. To be honest, a lot of that I
2:08:51
think is to be expected. That shouldn't surprise anyone
2:08:53
considering how established all that stuff is in Star Wars.
2:08:57
But what I think elevates this one is how that really unlikely
2:09:01
choice of director works so well.
2:09:04
And I think what adds that is that script, because the
2:09:07
storytelling choices in this film are just so brave and
2:09:10
they're so clever and they're just work incredibly well.
2:09:13
And they are the elements more than anything else, that I think
2:09:16
every other franchise that that has come after desperately wants
2:09:19
to copy. And I don't think anything else,
2:09:21
whether it's Nolan's Batman films, whether it's Marvel,
2:09:25
whether it's Lord of the Rings, I don't think any of them have
2:09:27
come close to returning to a particular cinematic world and
2:09:31
then shaking it and turning it upside down and then going,
2:09:34
yeah, that's what it looks like now in the way that Empire does.
2:09:38
It's just so brave and ultimately for me it's it's
2:09:41
really easy. When I did Star Wars, I gave
2:09:43
that A9. Empire is in my opinion better
2:09:46
than that film in every department.
2:09:48
So it's a well deserved and completely earned 10 for me.
2:09:51
Oh nice. Full marks.
2:09:55
Yeah. I mean, Star Wars is some act to
2:09:56
try and follow the biggest film ever made at the time,
2:09:59
Hollywood's biggest phenomena. The pressure and expectation
2:10:02
that Lucas and his whole team was under that could have easily
2:10:04
buckled. And this could be a Turkey.
2:10:06
Yeah, but obviously it's not. If they made something that just
2:10:09
came anywhere close to the original, that would have been
2:10:11
an achievement. But to make a film that's widely
2:10:13
regarded as being better than Star Wars, but take that for
2:10:16
granted now. But it's almost beyond belief
2:10:18
that they pulled that off. And the way they did it, the
2:10:21
tone changed like we talked about.
2:10:22
The story structure completely changes like we talked about.
2:10:25
It's a very different film when the easiest thing to do would
2:10:28
have been to replicate the first one.
2:10:30
Very different, but still definitely feels like it's over
2:10:32
Peace with Star Wars as well. So for the great vision from
2:10:36
Lucas, excellent direction from Mervyn Kirschner, great writing
2:10:39
Florence Kasdan, top much performances from the cast,
2:10:42
world class creativity from John Williams, ILM, Pia Sashitski,
2:10:46
Ben Bird, John Morlos, Ralph Macquarie.
2:10:49
It's something special. Yeah, yes, it's the greatest
2:10:51
block poster sequel ever. And yes, for me it's getting 10
2:10:54
out of 10. Nice, lovely and rusty.
2:10:57
You want some marine score for Empire, please.
2:10:59
It's a. Five.
2:11:00
It's all right. How out of five?
2:11:04
No, I'm kidding, obviously. I'm kidding.
2:11:06
It's yeah, it's it's great. It's bald.
2:11:09
It's like Matt said, it's very brave, like you said, John.
2:11:13
It's just, it's takes Star Wars and progresses it into a way
2:11:17
that you didn't really need it to progress, but you did.
2:11:19
Once you've seen it, there's a it's an amazing film from a
2:11:23
character point of view. It's an amazing film from a
2:11:25
visual point of view in every step.
2:11:28
And it's got a lot to see and it's got a lot of depth, and to
2:11:31
bring that to the sci-fi genre in 1980 is nothing short of an
2:11:35
absolute miracle. And it still works now and it's
2:11:39
just brilliant. It's just so entertaining.
2:11:42
It's just so good. It's just everything in the
2:11:44
right place. And for me, yeah, it's a 10.
2:11:47
Of course, so another benefit of being a patron is that your vote
2:11:52
will count for a lot in deciding the overall scores for movies we
2:11:54
cover. So some of our parents comments
2:11:57
on Empire, Derek Noonan said. I remember waiting in a line
2:12:01
around the block at Evanston Theatre with my dad to get in to
2:12:04
see this movie. But entire experience and my
2:12:06
love for this film are the earliest and still one of the
2:12:09
fondest memories I have of Cinema 10 all day.
2:12:14
Hilton Thompson said my mum blind my brother and I out of
2:12:18
school to see Returning the Jedi as she was so desperate to know
2:12:21
what happened to Han. That was from all the emotions
2:12:23
she felt at the end of this film.
2:12:25
Yes, the opening is great, the middle pulls you into the
2:12:27
character developments and the ending is jaw droppingly good.
2:12:30
I'm going to watch it again tonight, no question.
2:12:34
That's parenting done right. It is right too right.
2:12:37
A great man, yes. And Paul Wilson said when Star
2:12:42
Wars was released in 1977 I was 4.
2:12:45
So my first opportunity to watch it was the UK premiere on ITV at
2:12:48
7:15 PM on Sunday the 24th of October 1982.
2:12:53
Made an impact on Paul, do you think?
2:12:55
But you. Know the fucking day.
2:12:59
In 1984, a schoolmate was given Empire on VHS video and I'll
2:13:03
never forget the excitement of going around his house to watch
2:13:05
it for the first time all. Right.
2:13:09
Imagine being really excited to see a Star Wars film and it'd be
2:13:11
an Empire instead of being really excited to see a Star
2:13:14
Wars film and it being The Phantom Menace.
2:13:15
Like where you go and. We still made for self love that
2:13:19
film at the time myself. It was good, yeah.
2:13:23
That was great. That was really good.
2:13:25
Those are just three of the Patreon comments we received.
2:13:27
But that was the general theme. Big memories surrounding the
2:13:29
original Star Wars films and family.
2:13:32
I mean, these are like generation and childhood
2:13:33
defining films for people on there.
2:13:35
Absolutely. Absolutely.
2:13:36
So important. And altogether, our Twitter
2:13:39
followers rank the film as What do you think that was an?
2:13:42
Easy 1010. Hasn't it?
2:13:44
Come on, it's got to be. Yeah, of course.
2:13:45
It was Everyone loves it. It was a. 10 out of 10, yes.
2:13:48
So that gives The Empire Strikes Back 40 out of 40 in total.
2:13:52
Boom. And it puts it third on the all
2:13:55
time list behind The Godfather and The Matrix, surprisingly.
2:13:59
All right, that. Works for me.
2:14:00
That works for me, so. That's everything.
2:14:02
We have an empire. Hopefully we haven't failed you
2:14:05
for the last time, clumsy as we are.
2:14:08
Stupid apology. Accepted.
2:14:13
Next time excuses are like assholes and Wesley Look and Pi
2:14:16
are full of them as they talk Charlie Sheen in Vietnam as they
2:14:19
go all in on Oliver Stone's Oscar winning war classic
2:14:23
Platoon. One of your favorite twisty.
2:14:26
It is one of my favorite films of all time.
2:14:28
Yeah. It's a very, really, really
2:14:29
special film for me. So I'm.
2:14:30
I'm super looking forward to talking about that.
2:14:32
Yeah. Great.
2:14:34
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2:14:37
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2:14:40
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2:14:43
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2:14:45
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2:14:47
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2:14:50
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2:14:56
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2:14:59
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2:15:01
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2:15:04
website is all the right movies.com.
2:15:08
Yes, it is. We're all off now to make a deal
2:15:10
that'll keep the Empire out of here forever, so come back in
2:15:14
two weeks though for soon. Thanks you guys, I'll.
2:15:18
See you in hell.