Latest / Hustle Rebels: Burnout Recovery for Over-Achievers / Employee Burnout Isn’t Loyalty: Why Boundaries Create Better Leaders & Workplace Culture

Transcript

Employee Burnout Isn’t Loyalty: Why Boundaries Create Better Leaders & Workplace Culture · Hustle Rebels: Burnout Recovery for Over-Achievers

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: What if the best employee isn't the person that's willing to sacrifice everything for their job?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: What if it's actually the person who isn't?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know I talk a lot on this podcast about putting yourself first, questioning the system, not blindly following the rules just because someone decided that 50 years ago that's just how we're supposed to work.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, my personal favorite, fuck the system.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I realize that if you're an employer listening to this, you might be thinking, Renee, please stay the fuck away from my employees.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because at first glance, telling people to put themselves first probably doesn't sound like a great employee retention strategy.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to argue the exact opposite today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that teaching people to put themselves first actually creates better employees, better leaders, and better workplace cultures.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to give you three reasons why.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: First, people who know their limits are more sustainable.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Second, people who can think for themselves become better leaders and mentors.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And third, and I think this might be the biggest one yet, there's a massive difference between an employee who feels like they have to work for you, and an employee who genuinely chooses to work for you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hustle Rebels, the podcast where we question the hustle, the grind, and all the bullshit rules that we have inherited about what success is supposed to look like.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Renee, former firefighter, paramedic, turn burnout recovery, and leadership development coach.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And around here, we're not anti-work.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're anti-building your entire fucking existence around it.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're an overachiever who is starting to wonder what exactly you're working this hard for, or you're a leader who just wants people to actually want to work for you, you're in the right place.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And before we get into it, make sure you subscribe or follow the show.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a review or drop a comment.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Send me your thoughts.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm a nosy neighbor.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I genuinely want to know what you guys think about this stuff.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I love being able to create content that you guys want to listen to.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about why telling your employees to put themselves first might actually be one of the best things that you could do for your organization.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with number one.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: People who know their limits are more sustainable.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere along the way, we decided that the employee who gives the most must care the most.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: They come in early, they stay late, they answer all the emails when they're supposed to be off.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: They pick up the extra shifts.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: They never use their PTO, they never say no.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: They just literally handle anything that comes to their desk and they're fine.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do we call them?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: We call them things like dedicated, reliable, a best team player.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Until one day they're just fucking done.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody acts like they're shocked.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: How did we lose them?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you rewarded them for ignoring every single warning sign that they gave themselves for the last 5, 10, 20, 30, fucking 45 years.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this pattern because I lived it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: In the fire service, being the person who just tried to handle everything was part of my identity.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I never wanted special treatment.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want anyone questioning whether I belonged there.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to belong there so bad.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I worked hard and I worked and I worked.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that I could tolerate, the more proof I had that I was capable.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Until being able to tolerate something became the standard for whether I should tolerate it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: But those are not the same thing.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I think employers get the boundaries completely wrong.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: A boundary isn't, fuck you, I don't have to do any of that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: A boundary is I understand my capacity well enough to know what I can sustainably give you.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually very useful information.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's data.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I would much rather have someone tell me, I don't have the bandwidth to take that on right now, than say yes because they're afraid to disappoint me, then quietly resent me for the next six months to a year, do a half-assed job because they're overloaded and then eventually quit.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: One of those conversations might be uncomfortable for five minutes.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: The other one costs you an employee.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or worse, costs that employee their mental or physical health.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, we're not talking about whether somebody has a dedicated employee anymore.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about what they had to do to sacrifice and prove that they were one.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Putting yourself first doesn't mean abandoning your responsibilities.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: It means taking responsibility for yourself.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a huge fucking difference.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes work requires sacrifice and your team needs you.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes something goes sideways and everybody has to dig in.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's life.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But temporary sacrifice for something that you believe in is very different from an organizational culture that depends on permanent self-sacrifice.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: If your entire business model only works because your best people continuously operate beyond their capacity, you don't have dedicated employees.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have a countdown clock.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And sure, you can throw more money at that clock.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: More overtime, another raise, a bonus, some shiny new incentive to convince somebody to keep pushing past the point where they're already fucking exhausted, but let you know that it reflects on their taxes.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know from experience.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But throwing money at a countdown clock doesn't make it tick any slower.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It makes someone willing to tolerate the countdown clock a little bit longer.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the clock is still running.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually something has to give.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Either they leave, or their performance drops, maybe they just stop giving a shit.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because the guy next to them is getting paid the same amount and working half as much.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe their mental and physical health starts paying the price first.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a compensation problem.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a sustainability problem.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, people who think for themselves become better leaders.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: This one might piss a few people off.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the worst things that we can do in an organization is confuse obedience with leadership potential.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: We reward the person who never challenges anything.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: They follow the rules and don't rock the boat.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: They keep their head down and do exactly what they're told.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, we promote them.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have a culture of promoting people who are great at managing the system.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: They know the policies and they get the work done.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: They hit the numbers, they keep everybody moving in the right direction that they're supposed to be moving in.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they might be fucking fantastic managers.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: But being a great manager doesn't automatically make somebody a great leader.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it sure as hell doesn't make someone automatically a great mentor.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Managing is making sure that the work gets done.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership is understanding the human beings that are doing the work.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Mentorship is helping those people becoming better.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not just better at producing for you, but better at thinking, better at making decisions and advocating for themselves and eventually leading other people.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: They are completely different skill sets.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the only thing that someone learned on their way up was how to follow the system really fucking well.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think that they're going to teach everybody underneath them how to follow the system really fucking well?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when somebody says, hey, why do we do it this way?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it might not even be a confrontational question, just why?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: The answer becomes, because that's just the way we've always done it.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've just successfully preserved a shitty system for another generation.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is where fuck the system actually becomes incredibly valuable inside of an organization.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm not saying destroy every system.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Systems are necessary.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying question them.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's how growth happens.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this policy exist?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Does it still accomplish what is designed to accomplish?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Does this expectation make people better at their jobs, or are we doing it just because someone 30 years ago decided that suffering builds character?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: We all know how that feels, trust us.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Especially millennials.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: People who are willing to question systems can identify where those systems aren't working.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Think of Bar Rescue.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what he does as a consult.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when those people become leaders, they don't just replicate whatever was done to them.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because think about how many terrible leadership behaviors get passed down that way.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: My boss treated me like shit when I was coming up, so that's just how it is.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I worked every holiday, so they can too.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody cared when I was struggling.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had to prove myself.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But why?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we handing down workplace trauma like it's a family casserole recipe?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: A good leader should be able to say, this happened to me, and I don't think it should happen to you.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's mentorship.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's leadership.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how workplace cultures actually change.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: The person who has learned to advocate for themselves is much more capable of recognizing when somebody underneath them needs advocacy too.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: The person who knows what burnout feels like can notice it developing on their team.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: The person who doesn't derive their entire identity from their title doesn't need to use that title to control everyone around them.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the person who can tolerate somebody questioning them without experiencing as disrespect and insubordination, that is someone I want leading people.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And number three, there's a difference between being trapped and being invested.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: This one is probably my favorite.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have spent decades trying to figure out how to make employees loyal.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do we increase retention?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: How do we increase engagement?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do we even get employees?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get people invested?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And without even consciously knowing that we do this, sometimes our answer has basically been make leaving really fucking scary.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tie their healthcare to the job.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tie in retirement.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Reward tenure.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Give them longevity pay every so few years.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's another financial reason for them to stick around.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And hell, while we're at it, reward them for not even using their sick time.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're not requiring you to come to work sick.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Of course we're not doing that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have your sick time, it's right there.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Use it when you need it, of course.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't use it, if you drag yourself in when you feel like absolute shit, if you save up enough of those hours, maybe at some point we'll hand you some of those back in your paycheck, wink wink.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So technically nobody told you to come to work sick.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: We just created a financial reward pretending that you weren't.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then we wonder why people brag about never calling out.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why they work through injuries and they ignore these symptoms.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why we've created this society that going home feels weak.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And why taking care of yourself somehow just starts to feel like you're stealing from your future paycheck.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody has explicitly said your health comes second, but these incentive structures have set it for them.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when you combine that with overtime, pension, longevity pay, unused sick time payouts, and an identity that's built around being this person who just feels guilty for letting the team down, you can see how somebody stays and stays and stays.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes long after staying is actually healthy for them.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're literally rewarding people for overriding their bodies and then acting surprised when those bodies eventually say, yeah, fuck this, we're done.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean when I say that we have created a system that can quite literally work people into the ground, build their entire identity around their career, create this belief that leaving means they have failed, and then call it loyalty when they stay.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: But someone staying because they're afraid to leave isn't necessarily being engaged at their job.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're trapped.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And those are two very different things.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now I want you to imagine two employees.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Employee number one has no boundaries.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Their identity is completely wrapped up in their career.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're terrified of disappointing their boss.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: They say yes to everything, they can't leave their work when they go home, they don't take their vacation time, and they believe that leaving would be throwing everything away that they have worked for.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they stay.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is based around fear.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have employee number two, who has a life outside of work.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: They take their PTO time, they have boundaries, they know their value isn't determined by their job title, and they understand that if the job stops aligning with their life, they're allowed to leave.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But they stay anyway.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Which employee's commitment actually means more?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because number two isn't there because they believe they have no other option.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're there because right now, this is somewhere they genuinely want to be.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's investment.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, there is a risk there for employers.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you create a shitty workplace, people who respect themselves might leave.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the point.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the part employers should also care about.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: What if you create a workplace they don't want to leave?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're having a completely different conversation.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where the culture changes.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because this conversation isn't really about individual employees.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the kind of workplace we're trying to build.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're still carrying around some unbelievably outdated beliefs about work.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Clock in.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do what you're told.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Don't question authority.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Work harder.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sacrifice more.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your personal life comes second.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Be grateful you even have a job.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And somehow we've tracked pieces of the Industrial Revolution workplace culture all the way into 2026 and slapped teams and slack on it, handed everybody a quarter zip and called it a progress.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's time that we question that.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because imagine what happens when an organization is filled with people who actually know themselves and they understand their capacity, they can communicate and they have boundaries.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: They take responsibility for their own well-being.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they can actually question something without being an asshole about it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: They can receive a question without taking it as insubordination.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they can mentor somebody without hazing them through the same shitty experience that they had.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then they can go home at the end of the day and actually enjoy their life.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then they come back.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not because they're terrified not to, but because they actually want to.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not fucking burned out.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've got something.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've got growth.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a workplace where people are thriving.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because people who don't hate their lives outside of work have more to bring into work.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: People who aren't chronically depleted have more patience, more creativity, more capacity for problem solving, and more ability to mentor somebody else, and honestly, more room to actually give a shit.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the part I think we've gotten backwards.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: We keep asking, how do we get more out of our people?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe that's the wrong question.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the question is how do we create an environment where people have more of themselves to give?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those lead to two completely different workplace cultures.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And for the employee that's listening, this doesn't mean that your employer is responsible for making your entire life wonderful.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And or not wonderful.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're not.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Your boss isn't your parent.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Your workplace isn't responsible for healing every issue that you've ever had.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And blaming everybody around you isn't going to fix your problems.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think so, you might be the problem employee.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have a responsibility here too.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have to communicate.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have to set boundaries.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have to stop volunteering for shit that you don't have the capacity for, and then just get pissed that nobody magically noticed that you were drowning.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: You also have to stop tying your worth to being the person who can handle the most.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of videos about that, so feel free to just binge on those.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you also have to build enough of an identity outside of your career that your job can become something you do instead of the entirety of who you are.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's putting yourself first.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not selfishness, it's responsibility.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I talk a lot about fuck the system.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I talk a lot about putting yourself first.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about questioning the rules you've inherited.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're an employer, I understand why that initially might sound like I'm trying to start a tiny workplace rebellion in your break room.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I am.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the rebellion isn't against work, because we're all hustlers here.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's against the idea that suffering proves commitment.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because the best employee isn't necessarily the person willing to sacrifice everything for the company.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It might be the person who knows exactly where work belongs in their life, who has boundaries, who thinks for themselves, who knows they're allowed to leave, and chooses to show up anyway.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And when those people become leaders, they stop perpetuating the system that burned everyone else out.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: They become mentors, they build trust, they create teams where people are invested because they feel valued, not because they feel scared to leave.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want a system created off of fear.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: You want a system where people want to be involved, they want growth.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, you create something that shouldn't feel nearly as revolutionary as it does.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: A workplace where people actually want to show up to work.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole fucking point.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if this episode hit a nerve or resonated, whether you're an employee thinking, holy shit, that's me, or a leader realizing that there are some things that you just want to do completely differently, tell me about it, I want to hear about it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a comment, send a message, or leave a review.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I'm nosy and I want to know what's happening in your life.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to dig deeper into some of the beliefs, identities, or conditionings that might be keeping you stuck in burnout, I have resources like Burn the Blueprint where you get the first week for free, and you can check them out in the link below.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to like, subscribe, follow, share the episode with someone who might need to hear it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Also, if you want to become a guest on the episode, shoot me over a message.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear your story.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to become a sponsor and help offset some of the costs for the podcast creation, there's a link for that below as well.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: See you guys next time on the Hustle Rebels.