Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Parenting on the Sidelines: The Power of Stepping Back | Ep. 142

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Parenting on the Sidelines: The Power of Stepping Back | Ep. 142 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Throughout their childhoods, we pour our hearts into preparing our kids to stand on their own.
• 0:12
  However, when the time comes to let go, it's just as much about our growth as it is theirs.
• 0:20
  I'm Sheri Lange, your host.
• 0:22
  And today on the Parenting Podcast, we're diving into the real struggle of releasing our young adult children as our role in their lives is changing.
• 0:32
  This isn't just about being sure they succeed.
• 0:36
  It's about trusting in the foundation we've laid and summoning the courage to let them find their wings.
• 0:43
  and learn to fly on their own.
• 0:46
  If you've ever wrestled with how to guide without gripping too tightly, or how to love without smothering, then you're in the right place.
• 0:55
  Join us as we explore the delicate dance of letting them lead while finding our own footing.
• 1:10
  Hi, you all.
• 1:11
  Hello.
• 1:12
  How are you doing?
• 1:13
  I'm doing well.
• 1:14
  Yeah.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: I'm kind of done with this heat.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: I'm counting the days
• 1:18
  Christie: until cooler weather.
• 1:19
  Christie: You got at least probably three more weeks at least.
• 1:23
  Christie: I know.
• 1:23
  Christie: In Oklahoma, it's like maybe in December.
• 1:25
  Christie: And then it goes away.
• 1:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:26
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Christie: You least
• 1:27
  Ellen: expect it'll be bad, right?
• 1:28
  Cheryl: You know.
• 1:29
  Cheryl: September used to be a nice, cool month, so we won't get into climate change.
• 1:35
  Cheryl: I don't think the three of us can solve that.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: And those of us
• 1:37
  Christie: who
• 1:37
  Cheryl: like
• 1:38
  Christie: heat don't mind it being this hot.
• 1:39
  Christie: I like it hot.
• 1:42
  Christie: The autumns in the room are ready to wear some rust colors.
• 1:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:47
  Christie: The
• 1:47
  Ellen: minute I feel that little bit of chill coming on the air, I'm like, oh, I'm so disappointed.
• 1:52
  Ellen: Oh, see, the other day I was
• 1:53
  Christie: sitting in a coffee shop and I'd ordered a cinnamon latte and eating a pumpkin scone a little chilly in there.
• 1:58
  Christie: I was like, I think I feel tears coming.
• 2:00
  Christie: It's such a beautiful moment for me.
• 2:05
  Ellen: I saw them close the pools up.
• 2:07
  Ellen: And you grieved a little?
• 2:08
  Ellen: Yes, I did.
• 2:09
  Ellen: Oh, they covered the pool.
• 2:10
  Ellen: Not that I cared.
• 2:11
  Ellen: I wasn't going to play.
• 2:11
  Ellen: The
• 2:12
  California girl.
• 2:13
  Yeah, but it was like, bye bye.
• 2:15
  And I'm
• 2:15
  Cheryl: so excited.
• 2:15
  Cheryl: I'm excited.
• 2:16
  Cheryl: I've got some grandchildren with me and saying, okay, we're going to the attic.
• 2:20
  Cheryl: We're going to get all of our, because you're like, I am, yeah, let's decorate early for autumn and bring it on, bring it on.
• 2:26
  Cheryl: All right.
• 2:27
  Cheryl: Y'all I, I don't know if y'all have seen this.
• 2:29
  Cheryl: I saw an article, I think it was New York times.
• 2:32
  Cheryl: I'm not sure where it is.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: And they said, yeah, yeah, Oh, my goodness.
• 2:36
  Cheryl: So here we are, it's fall, kids going back to school, and they introduced it saying, forget about the IKEA futon, that there are parents across our country that are having interior decorators come in for their kids.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: To have you seen that into the door?
• 2:54
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:55
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:55
  Christie: I have.
• 2:56
  Christie: I mean, I've seen the tick tock posts and the videos of them.
• 3:00
  Christie: And yes, they are
• 3:03
  Ellen: incredible.
• 3:03
  Ellen: When you told me about it.
• 3:04
  Ellen: I went and looked at room
• 3:08
  Cheryl: because it's gorgeous.
• 3:09
  Cheryl: It's 10,000 dollars 000.
• 3:11
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 3:11
  Cheryl: to decorate a dorm room, which will be gone very soon.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: Right.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: It's not a permanent investment.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 3:17
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Christie: I think it's mostly a Southern mom thing.
• 3:21
  Christie: Yeah, it is.
• 3:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:22
  Christie: But, yeah, it's a, it's a whole thing.
• 3:24
  Christie: It is a thing.
• 3:25
  Cheryl: And it's at some of these universities decorating the rooms, is, at a higher cost than the in state tuition.
• 3:33
  Cheryl: That is just insane.
• 3:34
  Cheryl: That is insane.
• 3:36
  Ellen: Welcome to
• 3:36
  Cheryl: my boudoir.
• 3:40
  Cheryl: Okay, so, y'all.
• 3:43
  Cheryl: In no way are we condemning.
• 3:44
  Cheryl: If someone wants to do that, you go ahead.
• 3:47
  Cheryl: But I think that's a little tip of the iceberg of maybe some of what we see going on in our culture now with, the releasing or the non releasing of our teenagers into young adulthood.
• 4:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:00
  And I think
• 4:01
  Cheryl: this is reflecting some of the struggles that we're seeing.
• 4:05
  Cheryl: Because the idea behind
• 4:06
  Ellen: it is.
• 4:07
  Ellen: If I kind of give you, as the mom, this beautiful room, then your transition into college and adulthood won't be so rough.
• 4:15
  I
• 4:16
  Cheryl: figure, me, I would have found it very rough.
• 4:21
  Cheryl: Because then when I have to pay for it myself, I can't even afford Ikea.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:26
  Cheryl: I can't even afford the bedspread.
• 4:29
  Cheryl: that's what I want to talk about.
• 4:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Cheryl: Are y'all seeing this in our culture, the struggle, and it is hard, releasing our children into young adulthood is really hard, and we've said it many times here on the Parenting Podcast.
• 4:41
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:42
  Cheryl: People don't talk about it a lot.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: It's the best kept secret, apparently.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: It really is.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:46
  Ellen: Well, I mean, it's a little bit older, and having had five kids, having weddings and dorm rooms and all sorts of different things, But I think, to me, the really big change that I saw in our culture quite a few years ago was weddings.
• 5:01
  We went from Um
• 5:03
  Ellen: You know, we're going to spend X amount of dollars.
• 5:04
  Ellen: We're going to get married, have a little reception and have fun.
• 5:07
  Ellen: Right.
• 5:08
  Ellen: So these are like destination weddings.
• 5:11
  Ellen: And again, I'm not criticizing people that want to do that.
• 5:14
  Ellen: I'm just showing the shift in our culture.
• 5:17
  Ellen: What it represents.
• 5:18
  Ellen: It went from a couple thousand dollars for a wedding to tens of thousands of dollars into a wedding.
• 5:24
  Cheryl: Tens of thousands for a normal ish wedding.
• 5:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:28
  Cheryl: Much less these.
• 5:29
  Cheryl: It's like you say.
• 5:31
  Cheryl: So, so you just set a shift in our culture, what, what do you think some of these things are?
• 5:36
  Christie: I mean, I don't know, I've only been here 45 years, but it seems like materialism has always been a thing, right?
• 5:45
  Christie: And there's this up and down of maximalists, you know, like I'm a kid of the 80s, so things were big and gaudy and awful in the 80s, right?
• 5:55
  Christie: And it's kind of this swinging back to that, and so maybe there's something.
• 6:01
  Christie: below the surface that we're really seeing highlighted through this overabundance and overconsumption because like you said, I mean, releasing is hard and it's kind of the thing that brings all of our insecurities and parenting to the surface.
• 6:19
  Christie: And so maybe these over the top expenses are just a symptom of, of what we're feeling in that time.
• 6:26
  Christie: Right.
• 6:26
  Right.
• 6:27
  Christie: Did I do it all right?
• 6:28
  Christie: Have I done enough of everything?
• 6:30
  Christie: I don't know.
• 6:30
  Christie: Let me give it one last hoorah.
• 6:33
  Christie: Well,
• 6:33
  Cheryl: it is really hard when even when you're intentionally trying to do it and release.
• 6:39
  Cheryl: It is so hard because you do want to go ahead and make the path easier and You know, put a little bit of lining on it so forth, but that's
• 6:49
  Ellen: the difference in thinking from our parents who raised us and we're closer to our 70s who just went, life is hard.
• 6:59
  Ellen: You're going to be released into this culture and you got to figure it out.
• 7:04
  Ellen: You know, you got to earn some money and you might have to live on peanut butter and jelly for a little bit.
• 7:11
  Ellen: And that was kind of.
• 7:12
  Ellen: a normal expectation.
• 7:14
  Ellen: Well now we've reached it.
• 7:16
  Ellen: So we don't want our kids to suffer.
• 7:18
  Ellen: We don't want to have them to have anything that makes them uncomfortable.
• 7:22
  Ellen: whether I have the money to provide that and the means to, it's my obligation to make sure that they're comfortable as they're being released rather than.
• 7:32
  Ellen: I'm giving them maybe some of what they need, and they're going to start to figure it out as they go into college.
• 7:37
  Ellen: They have to stay on a budget, I mean, I remember my daughter would tell me her friend's amounts on their credit cards.
• 7:43
  Because while she had to go
• 7:45
  Ellen: to work to help pay for part of her school, her friends were all going shopping with, you know, couple thousand dollar on their parents credit card that they could spend to just buy clothes.
• 7:56
  Ellen: Right.
• 7:57
  Cheryl: Well, you know, you said as they're being released, so my question, kind of stirring this up, is that releasing them?
• 8:06
  Cheryl: That's a
• 8:06
  Ellen: really good thing to define.
• 8:08
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 8:08
  Christie: I mean, when we're, when we're meeting all these material wants Is that keeping us from releasing in the relationship is what you're saying?
• 8:15
  Cheryl: exactly!
• 8:17
  Ellen: Or what's best for our children.
• 8:18
  Ellen: Well, what I would say to my kids, and they've all heard this, I do not consider you an full adult To you are financially free from your dad and I
• 8:27
  mm hmm That is
• 8:28
  Ellen: adulthood if we're we're helping with college if we're helping with the car payment all that But I mean, I'm just saying if we're doing all these helps you're not financially independent You're not an adult yet because you're still dependent on us now people will disagree with that But that was the standard we gave to our kids and we also were really independent careful what we helped them with.
• 8:49
  Ellen: They knew we told them ahead of time, we are not helping you financially with these things, even if we have the money, because that's part of becoming an adult, is you learn how to manage these things yourself.
• 9:00
  Christie: Well, and I guess that's something that each family has to determine on their own.
• 9:03
  Christie: At what point do we determine you to be an adult?
• 9:06
  Christie: At what point are we going to pull our support back?
• 9:09
  Christie: Whether it's these 20, 000 dorm rooms or, you know, Which is probably more of the majority of us.
• 9:18
  Christie: And I think there's a big difference you know, I'm a girl mom through and through, so it's fun to do all the over the top things yeah, Where you can and where you want to, but you've got to check your motive behind it.
• 9:32
  Christie: Is this because I'm needing to fulfill something in myself and insecurity in myself?
• 9:38
  Christie: Is this because my children are dependent on it, that they haven't learned to do these things for themselves, you know, that, that's tricky to sort all through that.
• 9:48
  Ellen: And I don't think there's, it's not like there's a starting line, and then they're done.
• 9:52
  Ellen: It's a process that should be starting probably in high school.
• 9:56
  Ellen: You're slowly releasing.
• 9:58
  Ellen: Them.
• 9:58
  Ellen: Mm-Hmm.
• 9:58
  Ellen: to make certain decisions on their own and pay the consequences for those decisions.
• 10:03
  Ellen: And then it gets broader and broader and broader till they are in adulthood.
• 10:08
  Christie: Right.
• 10:08
  Christie: And
• 10:08
  Ellen: they don't need to come to you for everything.
• 10:11
  Cheryl: Well, again, everybody, we're not condemning Right.
• 10:14
  Cheryl: Criticizing right.
• 10:15
  Cheryl: We're talking about the idea.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: And so someone doesn't have to invest$10,000 in a dorm room.
• 10:22
  Cheryl: To not be releasing their child.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: And so I'm thinking about in my own process, cause I want them to be adults.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:30
  Cheryl: And I love my relationship with my children and I enjoyed it and you know, I enjoyed the feedback that comes from being needed and wanted and, and meeting those needs.
• 10:44
  Cheryl: But that's not adulthood when I'm, I'm not allowing them to be adults when I'm still treating them like children right.
• 10:51
  Cheryl: Yeah Right.
• 10:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Ellen: Like Christy said, trying to get your needs met.
• 10:55
  Ellen: That's right.
• 10:56
  Ellen: And in the, quote, releasing process.
• 10:58
  Ellen: And
• 10:59
  Cheryl: it's so hard.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: It is hard.
• 11:01
  Cheryl: To keep my mouth shut.
• 11:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:02
  Cheryl: or to not intervene.
• 11:04
  Cheryl: Because how does someone grow up?
• 11:06
  Cheryl: I mean, how does an adult grow up?
• 11:09
  Cheryl: You talked about consequences.
• 11:11
  Cheryl: When I can take the consequences from my choices and actions.
• 11:14
  Christie: Right
• 11:15
  Cheryl: And again, we're not saying there's not a place for mercy and grace and kindness and all of that, but it's just, they have to stand on their own two feet.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Yeah Right.
• 11:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:28
  Cheryl: And I'm just concerned about what we're seeing here in our culture, that there are tentacles.
• 11:35
  Ellen: They're delaying adulthood, Cheryl, and every psychologist will tell you that's a really big problem in our country.
• 11:41
  Ellen: It used to be at 21, kids were not mature mature, but they were still accepting themselves as an adult.
• 11:49
  Ellen: We're going to, we're
• 11:49
  going to,
• 11:50
  Ellen: pay for things and it's my responsibility now it's been moved past 25 for the mark of adulthood where kids are still happy to live at home and there's circumstances where that's fine but the reality is part of that adulthood is saying I'm separating myself from my family I'm my own interdependent person not independence but an interdependent person I live separately I do things separately right and that's a good thing and then I come back and enjoy my family
• 12:20
  Christie: Right, and I, I think the difference between doing these things for your child out of their need and their dependence on you versus just being a fun mom and getting to do fun things for your kids, it looks the same on the outside, so it can be really tricky, but I think what you were saying is, is really good, like, starting even in high school, are your kids learning to, you know, manage a little income and, and have some responsibilities, pay their own phone bill or their, you know, car insurance or things like that, so that they are learning that repsonsibility Yeah.
• 13:00
  Christie: And, you know, like you said, we're not, we're not saying don't do these fun things with your kids, but they should not be dependent on you in, in increasing amounts.
• 13:09
  Ellen: Because we started at 12.
• 13:12
  Ellen: We gave our kids, each child got a lump sum of money for school clothes, right?
• 13:18
  Ellen: And we withdrew any control on that money.
• 13:22
  Ellen: So if they wanted to buy the most expensive jeans that were out there, and then they had no money for underwear, they didn't get any underwear.
• 13:31
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:31
  Ellen: Unless they figured out, go babysit and buy yourself some underwear.
• 13:35
  Ellen: Because for us, that was the training process.
• 13:38
  Ellen: Because it's better to learn in your home, where there's the safety net.
• 13:43
  Ellen: And they learned really quickly.
• 13:45
  Ellen: They all did it.
• 13:46
  Ellen: They all got their lump sum of money and either bought really expensive jeans or, you know, really expensive tennis shoes.
• 13:52
  Ellen: And learned
• 13:53
  Christie: from the consequences.
• 13:54
  Cheryl: It's consequences.
• 13:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 13:56
  Cheryl: And you mentioned psychologists.
• 13:58
  Cheryl: And so, one friend of mine who is in that world.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: taught to me about the word differentiation.
• 14:05
  Cheryl: And that is really truly healthy balance people have and describe differentiation as a person who can maintain healthy individuality and autonomy within the context of relationships.
• 14:18
  Cheryl: Okay, so see, I think the autonomy is what we're talking about.
• 14:23
  Cheryl: That an adult needs to be autonomous but have relationships and healthy intimacy with people.
• 14:30
  Cheryl: And so if we continue to not allow them to develop their own autonomy, then we're holding them back.
• 14:39
  Christie: It really requires a lot of intentionality.
• 14:41
  Christie: It sure does.
• 14:42
  Christie: Because like you, Ellen, we would start the same way around 12, middle school ish, we would start giving them their amount.
• 14:48
  Christie: And that was typically our money we were giving them.
• 14:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:52
  Christie: But then, you know, moving towards 16, 17, they would have their own income from a part time job and, and you said the magic word too, control.
• 15:02
  Christie: I had to remove all my control from their choices if they chose to get their nails done and they couldn't pay their phone bill, that was going to present a problem.
• 15:12
  Christie: And so removing my control gives them a safe place to learn these hard lessons.
• 15:19
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:19
  Cheryl: And that is so hard on us.
• 15:21
  Cheryl: Yeah, to be able to do that, but that's how we love them to not have that control and to
• 15:26
  Ellen: realize they'll live.
• 15:28
  Ellen: Because somehow in our mother minds, we think, oh, this is going to be a big deal.
• 15:34
  Ellen: And we have to step back and go, you know, they'll be fine.
• 15:37
  Ellen: They didn't get to do this one thing this time.
• 15:40
  Ellen: That's how they learn.
• 15:41
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:41
  Ellen: Don't spend all your money over here because now you wanted to do this or you needed some new underwear and you don't have the money.
• 15:49
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:49
  Ellen: But
• 15:50
  Cheryl: some things we know are more serious than that.
• 15:54
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:54
  Cheryl: But if you're trying to release them to be autonomous individuals and maintain a relationship when it is a more serious decision than, designer jeans.
• 16:04
  Cheryl: You are equipping them to make those decisions, that's why we're always beating the drum here of they have to learn, you know, healthy boundaries are maintained with consequences.
• 16:19
  Cheryl: Consequences are a friend and even like a parent might say, Oh, my goodness, my child's already this old.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: How do I begin to do it?
• 16:27
  Cheryl: Well now, yeah, yeah, go back and you have the conversation and those kind of conversations for me start out with I want to really apologize to you.
• 16:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Cheryl: I haven't done this well, and I'm very sorry.
• 16:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: And this is what I'm going to start doing because I love you.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Cheryl: And if you've not been holding them to consequences, saying, I am going to now because that's what's best for you.
• 16:47
  Christie: Well, and the reason you are saying you're apologizing is because it's doing something for your kids.
• 16:54
  Christie: Yes.
• 16:54
  Christie: To give them this gift.
• 16:56
  Christie: And I think that's a good way parents can reframe it, too.
• 16:59
  Christie: It's something I've had to do is.
• 17:01
  Christie: I'm giving them a gift of empowerment.
• 17:04
  Christie: Yes., I'm not saying I'm going to be mean and not take care of this for you.
• 17:07
  Christie: I'm saying I believe in you.
• 17:09
  Christie: I think you can handle this.
• 17:10
  Christie: I know that you have the ability to do this.
• 17:14
  Christie: And when we don't do that, I mean, I, I think we've all probably seen 20 somethings that feel like they can't handle anything.
• 17:23
  Christie: Anything because they haven't been put in positions to realize.
• 17:26
  Christie: Oh, I can do hard things and I that may be a big contributor to the mental health crisis.
• 17:30
  Christie: We have.
• 17:31
  Ellen: Oh, I think you hit a nail on the head.
• 17:34
  Ellen: I think that's a really big when people don't feel confident in their own abilities to solve their own problem.
• 17:40
  Ellen: Yes,
• 17:41
  Cheryl: but it's not confident because you made it.
• 17:44
  Cheryl: 500, 000 this year, but confident that I need to be responsible and tackle my problems and figure it out or go get help.
• 17:53
  Cheryl: Well, I know
• 17:53
  Ellen: that when I was 16, I did this.
• 17:57
  And
• 17:57
  Ellen: it was scary, but I did it well.
• 17:59
  Ellen: Right.
• 17:59
  Ellen: So now I can tackle this other hard problem.
• 18:02
  Ellen: That's the whole point of having problems to tackle and standing back and letting your kids tackle them without your bailing them out
• 18:09
  Christie: Yes.,
• 18:09
  Cheryl: You know, many episodes ago, we talked about how to get your babies to sleep, da, da, da, da.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: And you said, well, actually, that's part of the releasing process.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: That was good.
• 18:19
  Cheryl: What they're doing is showing their autonomy.
• 18:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Cheryl: Their individuality.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: And actually, that needs to be celebrated Ah, you know, you lose sleep over it.
• 18:29
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:30
  Cheryl: We actually physically lose sleep over it.
• 18:33
  Cheryl: And we may lose sleep over it later, to release our young adults, but autonomy and growth like that is so good for them.
• 18:43
  Ellen: But we make it about ourselves.
• 18:45
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:45
  Cheryl: Ooh.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: Because.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: That's
• 18:47
  Ellen: right.
• 18:47
  Ellen: The kids are happy.
• 18:48
  Ellen: Uh huh.
• 18:49
  Ellen: And most of them are happy to get some autonomy and some freedoms.
• 18:53
  Ellen: And we're sitting around getting an ulcer going, Oh, did I do this right?
• 18:58
  Ellen: Are they okay?
• 18:59
  Ellen: Right.
• 19:00
  Ellen: Because that's part of our releasing.
• 19:02
  Ellen: When we release them, we have to release ourselves to go, These are the skills that I know that they have.
• 19:09
  Ellen: If you happen to be a believer, you'll say, and I'm going to trust my child with God and they may mess up, and that's the process.
• 19:18
  Ellen: I messed up.
• 19:20
  Ellen: That's the process.
• 19:20
  Ellen: Right, right.
• 19:21
  Ellen: But it's not the defining moment.
• 19:23
  Christie: Yes, well, and I'm just going to go and get the drum out that we like to beat around here.
• 19:29
  Christie: It has to do with our identity, right?
• 19:31
  Christie: Like my, my identity is wrapped up in what they do with their life.
• 19:37
  Christie: If I was a good mom, then they will make great choices.
• 19:41
  Christie: It's kind of the lie that we believe.
• 19:43
  Christie: It sure
• 19:43
  Ellen: is.
• 19:44
  Ellen: And I always try to remind people when they say that, and as a comfort, well don't forget Adam and Eve.
• 19:51
  Ellen: They had everything.
• 19:53
  Ellen: They had the, had the perfect father.
• 19:55
  Ellen: Right?
• 19:55
  Ellen: They had a perfect father.
• 19:56
  Ellen: They had the perfect house.
• 19:57
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Ellen: They were gorgeous.
• 19:59
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Ellen: They had good clothes if they wanted to wear'em.
• 20:01
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:01
  Ellen: They had perfect food.
• 20:02
  Ellen: They had no peer groups.
• 20:04
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:04
  Ellen: They had no bill collectors.
• 20:06
  Ellen: You know, they had everything and yet they still were not satisfied and chose a different way.
• 20:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:13
  Christie: Oh, that's so true.
• 20:13
  Christie: And
• 20:13
  Ellen: so why would we be surprised?
• 20:16
  Ellen: Even if we were excellent parents, I'm not putting myself in that boat, I'm just saying, most of us probably feel that way.
• 20:22
  Ellen: If we had been perfect.
• 20:23
  Ellen: Yes, if we had been like the best parents ever, that could still happen.
• 20:27
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:28
  Ellen: And sometimes, you know, I've known friends that have been horrible parents, and they have amazing kids.
• 20:34
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:34
  Ellen: And you're like, what happened?
• 20:35
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:35
  Ellen: So, you know, there's a lot of factors that go into releasing and going into adulthood and what that looks like for each person.
• 20:43
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:44
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: And Krista, you have said it before, their choices.
• 20:49
  Cheryl: They're wrong, they're whatever, doesn't reflect on me as a parent.
• 20:54
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:55
  Cheryl: What is it exactly you say?
• 20:57
  Cheryl: You go, your choices, you have a really good little mantra.
• 21:00
  Christie: I'll have to look back on the tape and see what I
• 21:02
  Cheryl: said.
• 21:03
  Cheryl: With the identity, I think that's really it.
• 21:06
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 21:07
  Cheryl: And we've talked about it all the time.
• 21:08
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: Because where I get my identity.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Tells me whether I'm healthy or not.
• 21:14
  Cheryl: Yeah, I know and I've just slowed down and think about that right and so we want the same thing with our children That we don't want them to get their identity out of having the most beautiful dorm room in the history of the world, or all of that, or their identity is, I can't do it, mommy has to do it for me, and I can't figure it out, and so, back to you, that's an identity of failure, and inability, and incapacity, rather than, empowerment I need to figure this out.
• 21:43
  Cheryl: I can do this and be supported by their parents, but not, you know, snowplow, way paved.
• 21:51
  Ellen: We're supposed to be giving tools all through junior high and high school in particular, giving them tools for future use.
• 21:58
  Ellen: They're going to start practicing them when they're home, but these are future tools that they have in their toolbox.
• 22:04
  Ellen: So they go, Oh, I'm in this predicament.
• 22:06
  Ellen: This is what I know to do.
• 22:08
  Ellen: I know to take these steps to get out of this predicament.
• 22:11
  Ellen: And that's a really important thing and I think a lot of people go into adulthood with no tools.
• 22:17
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Ellen: And then they're just like standing on a street corner going, I don't know what to do.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: And again, psychologists, tell us when you look at life satisfaction.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: The children whose parents are overbearing, over, caring, remove obstacles
• 22:32
  Ellen: the children are not happy as adults.
• 22:35
  Ellen: Right.
• 22:35
  Ellen: And they don't flourish very well.
• 22:37
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:37
  Ellen: Although it kind of feels harsh, maybe to let
• 22:41
  Cheryl: figure it out
• 22:42
  Ellen: to let our kids fail.
• 22:44
  Ellen: It's actually one of the very best gifts we could ever give them.
• 22:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:47
  Christie: Well, that's what I was going to say, too, is that if you've had this pattern in their lives in the very beginning of this releasing and stepping back, it's really going to feel bad because you know, You've created a system that they are, they are severely benefiting from, you know, if you're carrying too much load if you're paying for the gas and you're paying for the phone, you're paying for all these things, that's not fun to have those things starting to, you know, put, be put on your plate.
• 23:15
  Ellen: That's why you start.
• 23:17
  Ellen: Earlier, you don't just, yeah, you're 18 or 20.
• 23:20
  Ellen: Now you got to do all this, right?
• 23:22
  Ellen: If you
• 23:23
  Christie: haven't, right.
• 23:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:25
  Christie: Now, and now you've got this 20 year old that you're saying, Hey, this is what I'm thinking.
• 23:29
  Christie: I need to start passing some of these things off to you.
• 23:32
  Christie: You're going to get some pushback for sure.
• 23:34
  Christie: And
• 23:34
  Cheryl: it, and you can kind of let it go down easy.
• 23:38
  Cheryl: Like we've talked before about certain ones of my children hated to make telephone calls.
• 23:45
  Cheryl: You know, and this was when we had corded phones, maybe even cell phones.
• 23:49
  Cheryl: But they just hated to have to call and make the appointment.
• 23:52
  Cheryl: Or something like that.
• 23:53
  Cheryl: And when they were younger, go, sure, I'll make it for you.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: And then start saying, nah.
• 23:58
  Cheryl: You know, and you should, somebody's hairdressing appointment.
• 24:01
  Cheryl: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:02
  Cheryl: But their hair just went for a long time.
• 24:03
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 24:04
  Cheryl: Until you, you know, so you found a way to gently bring that into their life rather than, you know, a really abrupt, hard fall.
• 24:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:13
  Cheryl: Well, that's
• 24:14
  Ellen: why you start early.
• 24:15
  Ellen: Junior high and high school, you start letting them make those decisions.
• 24:19
  Ellen: They start calling and making appointments for themselves in high school, you know, to get their hair done.
• 24:25
  Ellen: That's a good skill to learn.
• 24:27
  Ellen: And you have to look at everything, is this a skill they need?
• 24:30
  Ellen: Not just, oh, I can do it for them because it's easier, or they're feeling uncomfortable doing this.
• 24:35
  Ellen: No, this is a skill they need.
• 24:37
  Mm hmm.
• 24:38
  Ellen: So that when they're on their own, they can figure out what to do.
• 24:41
  Christie: Well, and I think this is where it's important to be students of your kids.
• 24:43
  Christie: Some, some kids will have no problem making a hair appointment.
• 24:46
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:47
  Christie: Some kids, it would be traumatizing.
• 24:50
  Christie: So you may have to start with, you know, Can you send this text message or you might have a little real baby steps that you have to work with some of your kids on But being a student of your kid doing these things in increments
• 25:02
  Cheryl: This is just a real revolving conversation here like we would have it we were really having coffee.
• 25:07
  Cheryl: Mm
• 25:07
  hmm
• 25:07
  Cheryl: back to identity because my problem I could I know where it hurts is when they go, Don't worry, mom.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: I don't need you.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: And they're making these decisions and well, yeah, this and I kind of feel rejection.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 25:22
  Cheryl: 100
• 25:23
  Christie: percent and yeah, it's it's kind of you want to be needed.
• 25:27
  Christie: You want to be wanted.
• 25:28
  Christie: And I've I mean, I probably should be on the cover of the magazine of It's Hard to Let Go because I want, I love it when my kids ask me for things and want help with things and there have been times where it's been very tempting to do the thing for them and I know, okay, this is the thing that I need to pass off.
• 25:50
  Cheryl: And like we only have about like four things really say here.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: You know, we don't want to tell you all that, but it really is, because this is where community comes in.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: Because Ellen helped me, so as a widowed mom, it was hard.
• 26:04
  Cheryl: And I did release them, and I did have to let them go, but it was really hard, because then I go, I feel like I'm abandoning them, and all this.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: And she would say, Cheryl, They'll figure it out.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: Yeah, we go.
• 26:16
  Cheryl: Oh, that's the mantra.
• 26:17
  Cheryl: I need to remember.
• 26:18
  Cheryl: That's how I can love them Well in this releasing season, isn't it?
• 26:22
  Cheryl: They'll figure it out, you know, and then I'll go, Oh, you'll figure it out, trying to give them encouragement, but keep the door open, go, Well, can you help me?
• 26:30
  Cheryl: I'm trying to figure it out.
• 26:32
  Cheryl: Of course.
• 26:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:33
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:33
  Cheryl: That's healthy.
• 26:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:34
  Cheryl: And then also I would say to people whose children aren't all over 40 years old is wait for the fruit.
• 26:44
  Because it
• 26:44
  Cheryl: is hard when working life out and figuring life out includes bad decisions, wrong decisions, falling down, I mean, it's all involved in it because life is messy.
• 26:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:58
  Cheryl: And if you start saying, Oh, I'm terrible as a parent because my 20 year old doesn't this christy your children are still so young.
• 27:05
  Yeah,
• 27:05
  Cheryl: you've got some good fruit now, but just wait because the story isn't over Yeah, yeah, and yeah, let's wait to taste the fruit
• 27:12
  Christie: Well and part of the fruit that can be hard to stomach is like you're saying when you're kids don't quite yet appreciate the value of the lessons that maybe you've offered them.
• 27:22
  Christie: And you mentioned community being helpful.
• 27:25
  Christie: There's also the hard truth, that community can be part of the hardship here because if all your friends parents are paying for everything or all your friends are paying for everything of their children, that's a hard stream to swim up.
• 27:39
  Christie: It feels like I'm doing the wrong thing here.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: And see, I kind of had an out because.
• 27:44
  Cheryl: Everybody knew I didn't have the financial ability to do that for all my kids.
• 27:49
  Cheryl: But I'm telling you, and I've said it on here before, I had several friends say to me, It's really hard, for you all Cheryl.
• 27:57
  Cheryl: But I kind of wish I had your excuse.
• 28:01
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:01
  Cheryl: Because it was hard for them to stand up to that in their children's lives and say, No, you'll figure it out.
• 28:07
  Cheryl: You've got to pay for it yourself.
• 28:10
  Cheryl: And that's the thing.
• 28:11
  Cheryl: Plenty of money.
• 28:12
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:13
  Cheryl: But money is only
• 28:14
  Christie: one, one resource.
• 28:15
  Christie: I mean, time.
• 28:16
  Christie: I've, I've got a lot of time to offer my kids and I probably do way too much for my kids because, you know, I've, I've had that, that luxury for a stretch of time.
• 28:25
  Christie: So yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of resources we can overindulge in.
• 28:29
  Ellen: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:30
  Ellen: And I think that's, that's the main thing and that's why you have to start earlier.
• 28:34
  Ellen: You have to start junior high high school with the idea that I'm starting to release my children and it's because I'm letting them make decisions and I get to watch them maybe crash and burn.
• 28:47
  Ellen: I don't mean it in a horrible way, but I'm just saying they're going to make bad decisions.
• 28:51
  Ellen: And you want them to fail with a safety net.
• 28:53
  Ellen: Right.
• 28:54
  Ellen: And they know that you're there and they can go, Mom, I just really blew it and this is what happened And it's really hard if they're going to be adults and they're supposed to be autonomous and independent in themselves within the context of a relationship, it's really hard not to bail them out.
• 29:11
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Ellen: And as they get older, we have to really discern Am I supposed to help in this or am I supposed to say I love you, and I'm sorry that sounds really hard And that's why you talk about it from junior high on.
• 29:24
  Ellen: I think you start really
• 29:25
  Cheryl: small sure But yes,
• 29:27
  Ellen: but I think because when they're little you know they can't get a few things But really junior high in high school.
• 29:33
  Ellen: You're really honing that in the separateness.
• 29:35
  Ellen: Yeah
• 29:36
  Cheryl: y'all I'm listening to you and we're throwing these big words out here.
• 29:40
  Cheryl: Could the separation and autonomy and independence feel like rejection and abandonment to a lot of parents?
• 29:49
  Cheryl: Let's ask the survey.
• 29:51
  Cheryl: Survey says, yes, over here, I'm raising
• 29:53
  Christie: my hand for sure.
• 29:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:56
  Christie: I mean, that goes back to identity and, and taking things personally, which is like the fourth thing we say around here.
• 30:03
  Christie: Yeah, it makes it all about me and my feelings and how I feel rather than what's best for your child.
• 30:12
  Christie: And we
• 30:12
  Ellen: want them to be grateful, but they're not until they get older.
• 30:15
  Ellen: We would like them to turn around and go, Mom, you did such a good job.
• 30:19
  Ellen: Thank you for teaching me.
• 30:21
  Ellen: Thank you for helping me here.
• 30:22
  Ellen: But they don't do that.
• 30:23
  Ellen: They may if you stay in good relationship, down the road, maybe after 30 you know, when they have a different perspective, because I can remember my kids when they got that age and a little older, they would say, Oh, thank you for teaching me how to do that.
• 30:36
  Ellen: None of my friends knew how to do that.
• 30:38
  Ellen: And that was really helpful.
• 30:39
  Cheryl: Yeah, and sometimes we do not get, in this lifetime, we don't get the fruit that we should, we would like.
• 30:45
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 30:46
  Cheryl: Okay, but I'm watching as my children age, even the 30s, they're still maturing some Okay, and I think 40s is where I'm starting to taste the kind of fruit I thought I would get about 20 years ago.
• 31:00
  Cheryl: Yeah, yeah
• 31:01
  Ellen: And I think it depends, too, on when they marry and when they have children, because that matures you.
• 31:05
  Ellen: Right.
• 31:05
  Ellen: You know, because my kids got married pretty young and had kids pretty young.
• 31:09
  Ellen: Sure.
• 31:09
  Ellen: So they were kind of like, oh, now we get why you were a crazy mom.
• 31:13
  Ellen: Because they're looking at it through the
• 31:14
  Cheryl: eyes of a parent.
• 31:15
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 31:15
  Cheryl: Yeah, that makes total
• 31:17
  Christie: sense.
• 31:17
  Cheryl: Y'all, uh, typically, look at this, we're already out of time.
• 31:21
  Cheryl: Alright, and like I said, this has been a roving conversation.
• 31:26
  Cheryl: how can we kind of bring it together here?
• 31:29
  Cheryl: You know, because I'm feeling the pull myself, I understand the struggle of how hard it is to release our young adults, but I see from you.
• 31:38
  Cheryl: My own experience and what all the scientists and psychologists are saying.
• 31:44
  Cheryl: This is the best thing to do, right?
• 31:46
  Cheryl: Develop autonomy and independence and don't bail them out.
• 31:49
  Cheryl: And all of life is
• 31:50
  Ellen: releasing We have a whole life of having to release things whether it's dreams and hopes whether it's financial things Whether it's our children or hasn't we're all even our health As we age,
• 32:05
  Cheryl: eventually, you're not gaining strength, you're having to release.
• 32:09
  Cheryl: to a new Everything so that has
• 32:12
  Ellen: to be our framework And we are just always releasing stuff little and big things and that um We should always have the goal of releasing that should be in the back of our mind Am I releasing that because it can be something simple.
• 32:25
  Ellen: I really enjoy doing this because But we can't afford for me to do this anymore.
• 32:29
  Ellen: So now I start to have to release this.
• 32:31
  Ellen: Or I had an ideal that we were going to do these things.
• 32:34
  Ellen: We'll have to release that dream.
• 32:36
  Ellen: Right.
• 32:36
  Ellen: Wow.
• 32:37
  Ellen: Including.
• 32:37
  Ellen: That's really good.
• 32:38
  Ellen: So life is just releasing things or holding things loosely.
• 32:43
  Cheryl: You know, it may have been you, Christy, with the word somebody said, uh, we need to have planned emancipation.
• 32:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Cheryl: Which is the releasing.
• 32:52
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 32:52
  Cheryl: Planned.
• 32:53
  Cheryl: To emancipate them to be their own autonomous individual.
• 32:57
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Cheryl: That's tough.
• 32:58
  Christie: Well, and I think the balm for our own hearts in this can be the confidence that you love your kids.
• 33:04
  Christie: Like, you're not listening to the parenting podcast unless you love your kids.
• 33:07
  Christie: We know you do.
• 33:09
  Christie: Rest in that.
• 33:10
  Christie: Take a deep breath and assess what's Best for my adult child in this moment Wow and rest in that rather than what feels good in the moment What would make me feel best
• 33:23
  Ellen: and what's healthy?
• 33:24
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Ellen: Yeah, that's really it you touched on a little bit that health factor So as a parent am I releasing in a healthy way?
• 33:32
  Ellen: and am I finding things to do as I'm releasing so that I don't feel like I have to keep clinging and pulling back and grieving Saying goodbye to certain things, but and that's a whole other episode.
• 33:44
  Ellen: Yeah Y'all
• 33:48
  Cheryl: thank you so much.
• 33:50
  Cheryl: Hey listeners.
• 33:51
  Cheryl: I hope this coffee clutch that we had here is Equipping to you.
• 33:56
  Cheryl: It was encouraging to me.
• 33:58
  Cheryl: Yeah, I mean because as long as you have children You always want to be sure you're doing the right interaction with them of what's best for both of you Whatever that is in the give and take of life All right.
• 34:11
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 34:12
  Ellen: That's so good.
• 34:12
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 34:13
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 34:13
  Ellen: That's really helpful.
• 34:14
  Ellen: And you never stop releasing.
• 34:15
  Ellen: No.
• 34:16
  Ellen: You know, even though my kids are well into their 40s, there's still things I have to release in my heart towards them, or if I think they're making a good or bad decision, I have to release.
• 34:25
  Ellen: It's not my business.
• 34:26
  Ellen: Wow.
• 34:27
  Ellen: That's great.
• 34:28
  Ellen: So parents,
• 34:29
  Cheryl: remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 34:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 34:41
  I know first hand how bittersweet it is to release our kids into the world.
• 34:47
  We want to protect them, guide them, and smooth out their path.
• 34:51
  But sometimes, especially in this particular chapter in parenting, the truest love is to Today's episode reminds us how crucial it is to be patient as we wait for the fruit to grow.
• 35:08
  That sometimes the seeds we've planted take years to fully bloom.
• 35:13
  And here's the thing, the journey isn't just theirs, it's ours too as we learn to trust this process.
• 35:22
  If you need someone to talk to or want to share your story, reach out to us on social media, we'd Or contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 35:30
  com, wherever you find yourself right now, whether you're celebrating their victories or warring over their missteps, remember that this is a season of change and unfolding for both of you.
• 35:45
  I look forward to meeting you here again soon at TPP, and know that who you're becoming through this path.
• 35:52
  is just as important as who they're becoming.