Latest / History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present / No, Rob Reiner Didn’t Invent Rom-Coms, But He Perfected Them (Ft. When Harry Met Sally, The Sure Thing, and It Happened One Night)

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No, Rob Reiner Didn’t Invent Rom-Coms, But He Perfected Them (Ft. When Harry Met Sally, The Sure Thing, and It Happened One Night) · History Harpies: Pop Culture, Past and Present

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They say we're loud, opinionated, afraid. Telling
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us to hush, dim our historical light. But darlings,
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we're the Harpies, sharp and keen. Unveiling
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the truth behind the silver screen. History Harpies
0:17
hear us roar. Through the ages we explore. Fashion,
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film, and TV slow. Hi, and welcome to History
0:27
Harpies. I'm Lauren. And I'm Christine, and this
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is episode 18. Amazing. Amazing, Christine. I
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know we haven't recorded in a few weeks. We've
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had, I guess, snow and travel. Travel. Icy travel.
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So it has been a little while so we apologize
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to our faithful ten listeners that it's been
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a little while since we all know i think it's
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possible that our listeners may have grown to
0:54
say fifteen oh my gosh fifteen because some people
0:58
that i've been talking to have been mentioning
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the pod to me and they are not necessarily people
1:03
who know me and i am just astounded and i feel
1:07
like we're putting some. some good into the world.
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That is great. I love hearing that. That is so
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wonderful. If the algorithms are working for
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us, I'm so excited. And I have to give a shout
1:19
out to the city of Santa Barbara. Okay. Okay.
1:25
Let's hear it. Because I was in Santa Barbara
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about over a week ago and it's just so beautiful
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and it's so chill and I had such a great time
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honored a friend mentor of mine who's retiring
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and I was quote stuck there for a day because
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of bad weather on the east coast and I absolutely
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loved being stuck there. I'm sure you did. And
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so even though I don't believe although actually
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Of course, California is the destination for
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one of our texts we're going to be talking about
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today. That is true. It is the goal. It is. It
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is the goal. I'm going to give a little California
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shout out in this particular segment because
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I had such a good time and I really do recommend
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Santa Barbara to Anyone, especially if you like
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tennis and water and beautiful things and awesome
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restaurants and this amazing consignment shop
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that I found that was like, Christina, if you
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had been with me, we would have been in there
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for about four hours. Did you buy anything? The
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problem was I couldn't. buy anything because
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there was so much inventory. It was overwhelming.
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It was overwhelming. And it was all, I mean,
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imagine who consigned in like Montecito, right?
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In California. Megan Markle probably. It's like
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Megan Markle's stuff. And really going through
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it and trying it all on. And then it was organized
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by color. Oh, I love that. And then there were
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all these like Chanel bags, like in a case. You
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must have. felt like you died. I was so happy
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but the problem of course was I needed a friend
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and I was by myself and it was just and also
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the other mistake I made and listeners you might
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want to consider this in consignment shopping.
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Do the consignment store first. Don't do it after
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you've just walked four miles down to a pier
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and back and you're exhausted and you're like
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hot and you know, you don't really want to try
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on a lot of stuff. You need full energy for consignment.
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You need, you need to start out like have a cappuccino,
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have a good breakfast, then do the consignment.
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Because I do feel like I would have come back
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with some. The other thing is I only went with
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a roll on go carry on bag and I'm really could
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have bought some significant pieces there. And
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I just felt like I wasn't going to do them justice.
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But I will be back. And I know those clothes
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will just be even more fabulous. They will. More
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things. Well, that is a nice segue because, of
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course, travel. As you have already alluded to,
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travel plays a role in the three films that we're
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talking about today, even though travel is not
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our theme for this episode. But we still have
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three films including travel. We are going to
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rewind the tape back a little tiny bit to something
4:16
sad that happened before the holidays. And that
4:18
is the tragic passing of Rob Reiner. and his
4:22
wife Michelle, and we are such fans of so many
4:27
of his films. I loved, loved, loved him in All
4:31
in the Family. I thought he was an absolutely
4:33
incredible actor. Most recently had played a
4:36
role on The Bear in the most recent season. Such
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a versatile career, an amazing career. Legacy
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comedy family with Carl Reiner, his father. I'm
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just thinking of Carl Reiner in the Ocean's films.
4:51
over the Bellagio foul with Cloudaloon in the
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back. And I'm just, yes, legacy family. It's
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just all good from the Reiner's. All good. And
5:00
so we were so upset about what happened with
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the Reiner family. And we did want to have an
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episode revisiting some of our favorites. There
5:09
were so many, it was really hard to - Really
5:11
hard. To reduce. And we may have to do a part
5:14
two with some of the other Reiner films, but
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we wanted to go with ones that are sort of seminal
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favorites or at least speak to one another. Speak
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to one another. And one of the things we wanted
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to talk about in this episode is how Rob Reiner
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really perfected the genre of the rom -com, the
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romantic comedy. And so we wanted to talk about
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a couple of his films, The Sure Thing from 1985
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and The Iconic, When Harry Met Sally from 1989.
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But first we wanted to talk about a film that
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Reiner was clearly so inspired by, and that is
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the 1934 film, it happened one night. Yes. With
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Claudette Colbert. And most people I think, or
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at least most people of a certain age, are familiar
6:03
with the scene where Claudette Colbert flashes
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her leg, hitchhiking, and may not realize that's
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the film it's from. Yes, it's been done so many
6:13
times. It's been so many times. It's even in
6:15
the... I believe the second Sex and the City
6:18
movie, Big and Carrie, when they go to the wedding
6:23
of Anthony and Stanny, they watch that movie
6:29
in their hotel, and that actually prompts them
6:33
to have the fight later when Big buys the TV.
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And she's like, why did you buy that TV? And
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he's like, so we can watch all the movies. Like
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we did in the hotel and she's like, no, you know,
6:45
we're not supposed to have a TV in the bedroom
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and she gets all like bitchy and stuff like that.
6:49
But they did watch it happens one night and Big
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makes this like reference like, oh Claude Eric,
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Claude Eric Cabrera. She's she's like, ah, she's
6:56
one serious broad or whatever, you know, whatever
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he says. So everything goes back to sex and the
7:02
city. Although for me, when Harry met Sally has
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a similar resonance, it is very hard for me to
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not pull references or to think about life through
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the lens of one Harry Metzeli. But we'll start
7:14
with it happened one night. We will start with
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it happened one night. And so this is such an
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old Hollywood classic. Yes. Claudette Colbert
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playing a young, wealthy heiress who has made
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a pretty terrible marriage when this film starts.
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She is on a boat where she is basically being,
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in a sense, held captive by her wealthy tycoon
7:35
father because she has married a ne 'er -do -well
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King Wesley. And she escapes and she is basically
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trying to get from Florida, right, all the way
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back to New York City. And so again, a travel
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film where Claudette Colbert with really no money
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and only some clothes that she has from Pawning
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a Watch needs to get herself from Florida to
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New York without anyone finding her because of
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course her wealthy tycoon father is kind of sending
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out the alarm and so she has to travel incognito.
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Bad and wonderful things happen Lauren. Well
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the wonderful thing happened is that she meets
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the dashing Clark Gable who is a newspaper reporter
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who initially you know has no investment in this
8:27
story or in her whatsoever, but they meet and
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they connect and He realizes of course who she
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is and so they come under a scheme to get her
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to New York City he will get heard to New York
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City and in exchange, you know, he'll get a story.
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He'll get a story and exclusive because he's
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on kind of thin ice with his editor boss. Right.
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And so we just, I think we have to pause for
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a moment and just make exceptionally clear. Although
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I'm sure our listeners know it already. Clark
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Gable was a massive, massive star for so many
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years. So delicious. absolutely handsome, compelling,
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charismatic, sexy, all of the adjectives. Right.
9:13
And of course, when people really think about
9:15
him now, I'm guessing they probably think of
9:18
him as Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind. Right.
9:20
But he is so much more of a winning character.
9:23
I think it happened one night. The character
9:25
is so sympathetic, super. I mean, I hate to say
9:29
it, but I'm going to say it. Super masculine.
9:32
Again, very sexy. Very sexy. And we absolutely
9:35
have the dynamic, which we will revisit in our
9:38
other films, we have the dynamic of the very
9:41
able and capable man, then the high, strong,
9:47
not particularly practical woman with whom he
9:51
teams up. But also a woman who is not practical
9:56
due to her upbringing. Exactly. And who has these
9:59
kind of, you know, highfalutin expectations when
10:03
she's on a bus, when she's staying in a basically
10:06
like a trailer, when she's trying to get a shower,
10:10
when she's doing all sorts of things and being
10:13
put, interestingly, in uncomfortable and unfamiliar
10:17
circumstances. And you do get to see her her
10:21
wonderful comedic chops. Yes, absolutely. of
10:24
adapting or not adapting to this heiress. Again,
10:28
I think of Overboard because the Goldie Hawn
10:32
character in Overboard, of course, has a lot
10:34
of the same dynamics when she goes to live with
10:37
Kurt Russell and has to like, you know, sweep
10:40
a floor or something. And there's no idea what
10:42
that is. And we see a lot of that with the Ellen.
10:47
character in It Happened One Night. Super entitled,
10:50
used to being catered to. And I think, I don't
10:53
know if you would agree with me, but in this
10:54
movie we really have a dash of that kind of Frank
10:58
Capra with the common people in a great way,
11:01
energy. And so during the course of this trip,
11:05
we do see a kind of softening on both sides.
11:09
She becomes a little more adaptable. We have
11:12
the fantastically comic scene where they have
11:15
to pretend that they are kind of this angry southern
11:18
couple having a sort of screaming argument where
11:21
he repeatedly threatens to sock her, which probably
11:24
has not aged very well to 2026. But nevertheless,
11:28
but at the same time, he really softens towards
11:32
her in that he no longer sees her just as a story.
11:34
But of course, they fall in love. And what we
11:37
also have, if you agree with me. There is a lot
11:40
of sexiness in this movie. Oh my gosh. A lot,
11:42
a lot of sexiness. Well, between them putting
11:44
up, so they put up the curtain, right, and there
11:48
are all, because the implication is, is that
11:50
they would basically, like, be on top of one
11:53
another. Yes. We're not for this blanket. We're
11:55
not for this, whatever, sheet being held up by
11:58
a string. They would be on top of each other,
12:01
and a lot of dressing and undressing, and a lot
12:05
of peering over at one another, and... of discussion
12:09
about the potential of sex and of course the
12:13
final scene which we don't see of course but
12:15
is when they do when they do have sex and film
12:18
ends with but of course we are told that they
12:21
are now married we're told that explicitly that
12:24
the landlady of the hotel or whatever has seen
12:25
the marriage license but it does end with them
12:28
having sex right the final scene is marriage
12:31
consummation yes which is interesting and the
12:35
other the other i guess running thread which
12:37
you've just mentioned is that she's like too
12:41
much. in not only in being entitled, but having
12:44
opinions and she won't stop talking and she's
12:49
annoying and all of these things that make her
12:53
a little extra. And he's just sort of like, won't
12:55
you just like comment and I'll get you where
12:59
you need to go, but you're being impossible.
13:01
But then he eventually comes to find a lot of
13:03
these things endearing just as he also starts
13:06
to realize, I want a woman who's going to challenge
13:09
me and I do, and I, I love her and I'm not in
13:13
it for the money, which also is a theme later
13:17
on with the father when he's sort of like, well,
13:20
you want this. There's a reward for her. There's
13:22
a reward to bring her back. And he doesn't take
13:26
it. He just wants to basically be reimbursed.
13:29
Reimbursed for $2. He wants to take a slip to
13:34
the business where I took someone out to dinner
13:36
and I want to be reimbursed. And he's just like,
13:38
well, it was an extra blazer, an extra blanket,
13:41
whatever he got. He wants to be reimbursed for
13:44
these things. And he doesn't want any reward
13:46
for her, which the father finds very, very endearing.
13:51
Because we do have this sense that she has been
13:53
incredibly sheltered, also romantically, that
13:55
she has never been allowed to make her own decisions,
13:58
that this is not a woman who has had multiple
13:59
relationships. And so, in effect, King Wesley,
14:02
who's had all of his relationships and has gotten
14:05
this kind of narrative well, there's a sense
14:07
that, yes, he has been taking advantage of her,
14:09
that he is out for her money. know what the father
14:13
does, right? He's just kind of this classic sort
14:15
of 1930s tycoon who somehow managed not to lose
14:18
all of his money in the crash of 1939. Right.
14:21
Right. Yes. Something. And there's no mother.
14:23
Right. We never hear anything about a mother.
14:25
Right. But we also are told that Clark Gable's
14:27
character is kind of inexperienced in terms of
14:30
at least love. We're told he has never been in
14:34
love and that this is his great dream, that he
14:36
will find a woman who can be adventurous with
14:38
him. And this is the thing, right? That she realizes
14:41
that she is that kind of woman. That over the
14:44
course of this trip that she has discovered all
14:47
of these different ways in which she can be resilient.
14:50
So we have... really great chemistry between
14:53
the two of them. And as we've said, it is super
14:56
about sex and we have a happy ending where they
15:00
do have sex. And a wedding interrupted and all
15:05
sorts of misunderstandings. And he writes an
15:09
article which then gets thrown in the trash,
15:14
but then gets read. We have a runaway bride.
15:17
She is about to marry West King Wesley again
15:21
basically marry him again and a runaway bride
15:25
and so again this classic sort of like last minute
15:28
sort of ending to a rom -com sure and so all
15:31
of these different motifs as you said before
15:33
with the hitchhiking we see them so many times
15:36
yes right we see again this kind of pairing where
15:38
we have the the kind of snarky relationship between
15:40
the two of them it's sort of starts out at hate
15:43
as hate it evolves into love they are dependent
15:46
upon each other in this practical way and it
15:48
all ends up very very happily It's a very satisfying
15:51
movie. It is a satisfying movie. It is. And I
15:54
would also say, again, for listeners who might
15:56
be thinking, well, 1934, how does it hold up?
16:01
And I think it does hold up quite well. It absolutely
16:03
holds up. And it still is sexy, even by modern
16:08
standards. The comedic timing is... fantastic,
16:13
really fast, really fantastic. And the ideas
16:17
in it, of course, repeat over and over again,
16:19
as we'll see in our other films. But it's, it's,
16:23
I mean, again, and the two of them together are
16:25
just, I mean, the chemistry is incredible. And
16:29
you really want to see, although you know what's
16:31
going to happen, you know, they're going to wind
16:34
up together. Um, and that they, that she, your
16:36
balsa is going to come down, right? That's what
16:38
they say. But, but at any rate, it's still something
16:44
that you can really see the template being carved
16:49
in this sort of depression era moment. for these
16:54
Reiner films. And a template that never gets
16:57
tired. And I think maybe the last thing before
16:59
we move on to talk about The Sure Thing is that
17:01
one thing we've talked about before here is to
17:03
think about really sort of 1920s and 1930s films
17:06
and the [Hays] Code. Sort of the sense of sort of pre
17:10
-Code and post -Code films. The code that established
17:13
sort of the morality of Hollywood films. And
17:15
what I think is really interesting about It Happened
17:17
One Night is that it really is sort of edging
17:20
up against that. Edging on the card. nice sense
17:23
without watching a silent film. It gives you
17:26
this nice sense of how sexy, again, those older
17:29
films were. Yes. And this, of course, is something
17:32
that really does lean to it not seeming dated
17:34
at all. It's so modern. It is so fresh. And yes,
17:37
as you say, it creates this template that has
17:40
gone to today. Right. So let's actually start
17:43
talking about what, in effect, is Rob Reiner's
17:45
remake of It Happened One Night. Without saying
17:49
so explicitly. Without saying so explicitly.
17:52
But really is. It is absolutely the template
17:55
of It Happened One Night. And that is his 1985
17:57
film, The Shore Thing, a film I love. Yes, I
18:01
love it too. I love it too. And I've watched
18:04
it many, many, many times. And I think about
18:07
it. A lot. I do too. And again, I love John Cusack.
18:13
I've loved him in just about everything. And
18:17
sadly, I think Daphne Zuniga, I mean, has really
18:20
been sold short. Maybe because besides this and
18:23
then the Melrose Place career, I really don't
18:26
know what else she's done. But she is terrific
18:28
in the movie. And I just, again, love the movie,
18:33
love the premise, and I love the way that it's
18:36
been updated. The sure thing, if you haven't
18:40
seen it and you're not a Gen X person, which
18:42
every Gen X person has seen. Absolutely. Yes.
18:45
But it is set on the campus of Cornell and takes
18:50
place a relationship between two students. We
18:54
have freshmen. Now, the interesting thing, of
18:57
course, is in a lot of our films and frankly,
19:00
a lot of things we talked about, there is no
19:02
drinking age in the United States, period. And
19:05
we're not talking about like college kids drinking,
19:07
but like you can go to bars, you can go anywhere
19:10
and nobody is ever going to card you or things
19:14
like that. At least we know here he has a fake
19:16
ID. True. He has a fake ID. Doctor whatever.
19:20
Right, right, right. So we have the John Cusack
19:24
character Gib. Walter Gibson. And we have the
19:28
Daphne Zuniga character. Allison. I don't know
19:31
what her last name is. Yeah, I'm not sure we
19:33
ever know it. I'm sure it's something. And they
19:35
are in an English class together, and they're
19:37
at Cornell together. And she is the very kind
19:40
of buttoned up sort of prissy. Straight A girl.
19:46
Straight A girl. Well, not only that, but also
19:48
the kind of 80s like, what is it? Like kind of
19:54
like. I wouldn't say like Donald Trump model
19:57
80s, but that kind of like, you know, LL Bean,
20:02
very preppy, like preppy handbook. She's like straight
20:06
out of the preppy handbook. She's very Muffy. She
20:10
is very Muffy. And she is... quote, engaged already.
20:16
Oh, I missed that part. Or in a very serious
20:19
relationship with a law student who is at UCLA.
20:23
Jason. Jason. By the way, I have to interrupt
20:26
for one second. Okay. Boyd Gaines, who plays
20:28
Jason, he was like 35. And he looks it. He looks
20:33
35. It is ridiculous that this like 19 year old
20:38
girl is engaged to this 35 year old guy. So bizarre.
20:41
But anyway, so when the film starts out, the
20:44
two of them meet because they're in this English
20:46
class, but they discover early on that they do
20:50
not. get along. They are like opposites. They
20:54
are total. Who could think? Who would ever imagine
20:57
that? They're like opposites. And also Gibb makes
21:00
this ridiculous attempt to hit on Allison and
21:04
she is, of course, disgusted and the two of them
21:06
are disgusted by one another pretty early on
21:10
in the film. But they have a reason to go to
21:14
Los Angeles, which is Allison's visiting Jason,
21:19
and Gibb has a friend from high school who is
21:23
in this fraternity, Lance, who tells him that
21:26
if he comes out, there is this girl who was just
21:30
released from Catholic school and apparently
21:32
is in her experimental phase. Wants to just have
21:36
sex with anything that moves, and she is a sure
21:39
thing. So yes, so just to make very clear. It
21:41
is this girl who is the sure thing of the title,
21:45
in a sense. We also, of course, have other senses
21:47
to that, but she is the sure thing. And it is
21:49
that Nicolette Sheridan. Beautiful. Looking beautiful.
21:54
Um, again. Wait, didn't she also end up on Melrose
21:57
Place? She was in one of those shows. I always
22:00
remember her as Telly Savalas' stepdaughter.
22:02
Well, I always remember her as she was married
22:03
to Harry Hamlin. Oh, of course, of course. That's
22:06
all I can think about. Of course. I thought she
22:08
was on LA Law, but I could be wrong. No, I don't
22:11
think LA Law. We should have looked this up.
22:12
Her body is just sick. I mean, it's just unbelievable.
22:16
She's so gorgeous. Okay. So we see Gibb thinking
22:22
about her and he's also striking out in college.
22:25
So he's in a dry spell. He's in a dry spell.
22:28
And so he's like, okay, I'm going to get on a
22:30
bus or hitchhike or find a way to go out to Los
22:34
Angeles and see this, see Lance, but also, you
22:39
know, have sex with. And by the way, we should
22:41
point out that Lance is played by Anthony Edwards
22:44
of E .O .D. With hair. With hair. With hair.
22:48
Yes. So wouldn't it happen that the only way
22:53
these two can get out to Los Angeles is by sharing
22:56
a ride initially in the same car. And they start
23:02
out and the couple they're with is... Tim Robbins.
23:07
Tim Robbins. Of course we have mentioned before
23:09
in the pod. And the couple... quickly finds the
23:13
two of them insufferable. Because they are bickering
23:16
in sort of a classic, it happened one night way.
23:19
Again, that Gibb is free -spirited and drinking
23:22
beer, shotgunning beer at eight in the morning.
23:25
And shoving Cheetos in his mouth and burping
23:27
and the whole shebang. But she also is, you know,
23:32
being kind of taunted by him. And in one point
23:34
she, she like takes off her top and like hangs
23:37
out the window and you know, almost gets, gets
23:40
the into a car accident and so they are really
23:44
kind of playing off one another and so they are
23:46
thrown off to the side of the road by the couple
23:49
that initially agrees to drive them. And so we
23:54
then are in full on It Happened One Night territory
23:56
where pretty much for the rest of the film, we
23:59
are seeing their own sort of coast -to -coast
24:02
odyssey of walking, hitchhiking, trying to take
24:06
a bus, getting out from the ring, getting out
24:08
from the ring, completely ripped from the playbook
24:10
again, with no, I mean, and we expect sort of
24:13
Reiner to do that. And so we have then the same
24:17
kind of thing as we do in It Happened One Night
24:20
in the sense that Allison is The fact that she
24:23
has a day planner and schedules and all of this
24:26
stuff notwithstanding, she is in some ways not
24:29
practical in that we see her get into a pickup
24:31
truck with a stranger when she is hitchhiking,
24:34
even though Gib warns her not to do this. And
24:36
so then we do have, much like the kind of masher
24:40
in It Happened One Night who was coming onto
24:42
Ellen Andrews, Gib gets into the truck secretly
24:46
and basically saves her from being raped. Absolutely.
24:49
Absolutely. So we see ways. in which Allison,
24:53
who then leaves her date book behind that has
24:58
also like a lot of money in it and things like
25:01
that, maybe isn't as organized or as practical
25:04
as she thought in the beginning of the movie.
25:07
And we also start to see Gib, who is this free
25:10
spirit and, you know, and again, one kind of
25:12
wonders like, how did he? Get into Cornell, exactly.
25:15
By the way, I have to say, because I'm such a
25:18
homer, I have to say that the film initially,
25:21
Reiner asked Brown if it could be filmed at Brown.
25:25
And Brown said no, that they had a policy of
25:27
no films being filmed on campus, which is why
25:29
it is at Cornell, which makes me sad. I just
25:32
have to say. It would be so fantastic if it were
25:33
at Brown. But anyway. But I guess we're supposed
25:36
to think he was just. Because, of course, one
25:39
of the other themes in the film is that he wants
25:42
to be an astronomer. True. And so maybe despite
25:45
the whole beer drinking and never go well, he
25:47
goes to class, right? But he may not be a humanities
25:50
person. He may not be a humanities person, as
25:51
we know from his creative writing about pizza.
25:56
And so it really is wonderful to see those kind
25:59
of. beats of the same sort of thing right these
26:01
two characters who are presented to us as opposites
26:04
over the course of this travel the all of the
26:07
different things that happen to them they do
26:09
sort of grow closer together she again softens
26:13
he becomes more responsible and But in a sense,
26:17
it all, one of the things that has never quite
26:20
made sense to me, although I don't know, is that
26:24
of course she is irate when she finally learns
26:27
that he is only going to California and only
26:29
to have sex with the sure thing. This bothers
26:32
her very much. It does, but for me, by that point
26:35
she is in love with him. So while in the beginning
26:39
of the trip it might not have bothered her at
26:42
all or might have actually seemed... completely
26:44
in sync with his character. They clearly are
26:47
in love by the time they're in that inn and he
26:51
gives her the rose and they're starting to really
26:55
connect and you get a sense that, you know, there's
26:58
some real tension when they're in the bed together,
27:01
which is I think the first time they've been
27:03
in a bed together the rest of the time, one of
27:05
them sleeps on the floor. At her initial insistence
27:08
that one of them sleeps on the floor. Yeah by
27:12
the time that she learns just by overhearing
27:15
him tell this truck driver that he's going to
27:17
going to have the short thing she is very very
27:21
angry but what i think is probably the. best
27:23
part of the film for me is when they actually
27:25
get to UCLA and you see her, first of all, again,
27:29
Jason. I mean, first of all, the tea, Earl Grey.
27:35
That's really a studying tea, isn't it? How about
27:39
a little chamomile? It is really just priceless.
27:44
Okay, the two of them playing gin and him marking
27:47
down the scores and then she hears the party
27:50
and wants to go. And he's like, oh, we hate parties.
27:54
I feel like we know a lot of people. Basically,
27:57
it would be like that, Lauren. This guy. Oh,
27:59
we hate parties. We hate parties. People who
28:01
just want to hook up. Who just want to hook up.
28:03
There's drunk people. It really is. And he says,
28:07
you know, I got us some flannel sheets and they'll
28:10
just soften by the time we buy our farmhouse.
28:13
Our farmhouse in Vermont. Which you're thinking
28:15
like how, I mean, she's got to go through undergrad,
28:18
right? Four years of undergrad. Then she's got
28:20
to go to law school. So you're saying in seven
28:22
years. Those sheets are going to be pretty soft.
28:26
And they like basset hounds. Basset hounds. And
28:30
of course, we do have this wonderful sense. One
28:33
of the things I really love about this movie,
28:35
which I don't think I'd ever really appreciated
28:36
before, even though I've seen it approximately
28:38
50 times, it is so economical. Like that LA stuff
28:42
is probably, what, max 10 minutes? 10, 15 minutes,
28:45
but you get, it packs a punch. It packs a punch
28:48
because of course we see immediately when she
28:50
encounters Jason, she has taken on some of this
28:53
kind of Gibb's style. She wants a beer, she shot
28:55
a beer, he's horrified, she wants to go to the
28:58
party, she drags him to the party, and of course
29:00
then we have this absolute sort of confrontation
29:03
of Gibb and the sure thing, and Allison and Jason.
29:08
And I have to say, one of my favorite, favorite
29:10
moments, because it's so bitter and so real,
29:13
is when they have the argument when she says,
29:16
and he snores, and he says, Not tonight, I won't.
29:19
Which I think is one of the most cutting statements
29:21
probably in all of film history. And so we don't
29:24
really know. at the time how the LA experience
29:28
works out. That really is the last we see at
29:30
that fraternity party. And still, something else
29:33
I think that's nice about the fraternity party
29:35
is that even though it's this classic 1980s film
29:38
party scene, but Lance is clearly the bad example.
29:43
at this point, that even Gibb sees him this way.
29:47
And he has so much beer in his room. So much
29:49
beer in his room. And Lance is just sort of like,
29:52
dude, everybody. And why aren't you wearing the
29:55
grass skirt? And I love when you really see that
29:58
Alison in Gibb, when he's like, I'm not going
30:00
to wear these ridiculous clothes. And this party
30:03
is kind of lame. And this girl is just going
30:06
to do whatever I want. And you told her I was
30:08
a virgin and that I was gay. Basically, you lied
30:10
to her just to basically get belayed. So, but
30:14
then we have of course this one, I have to say.
30:16
Something else I really have never appreciated,
30:20
I think, until watching it this time. So, Viveca
30:22
Lindfors, the actress who is playing the English
30:24
professor, if she weren't so fantastic in that
30:28
final scene, I really don't think it would work
30:30
as well. It's excellent. Where she reads, of
30:32
course, this piece that Gibb has written over
30:35
the vacation, where we learn that, in fact, he
30:37
did not. He voluntarily did not sleep with the
30:40
Shore thing, because she wanted to be told that
30:43
he loved her and he would not do so, because
30:45
it would be... a lie. And so we have been at
30:49
this wonderful wonderful but again I was thinking
30:51
about that how many actors or actresses could
30:54
read because it's so much the emotional power
30:57
of that depends upon The professor reading it.
31:01
Yes. I don't know why I never really thought
31:02
about that before, but it's true. It's excellent.
31:05
And she's so good. And so we do then have this
31:07
wonderful happy ending. But I think the professor
31:10
too, I mean, you get this sense that she's this
31:12
free spirit that while she definitely has standards
31:15
in terms of writing and she wants her students
31:18
to succeed, but she's also like, do what you
31:21
want, right? And she tells Allison that she's
31:26
too rigid. And that even though her paper is
31:28
grammatically perfect, it just lacks any kind
31:31
of fun or creativity or that sort of thing. And
31:34
of course, Allison is the kind of student, as
31:36
we know, who is literally copying down every
31:39
single word her professor says. But can you imagine
31:41
right now saying to your classroom, make love
31:44
in a hammock? Oh my god! How long would it take
31:49
for us to be fired if we said to our students
31:52
make love in a hammock? I would never say that.
31:57
Now, let me ask you a question. Was she the girlfriend
32:00
of Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School? No,
32:04
that was Sally Kellerman. Okay. Yeah. I knew
32:06
you'd know that. Yes, Sally Kellerman. We really
32:10
do. I mean, one thing I just have to say, because
32:12
I love this film so much. I mean, for so many
32:14
reasons, but When Gibb, at one point in the film,
32:21
Gibb is wearing black turtleneck, the bomber
32:25
jacket, the leather bomber jacket, army pants,
32:30
and black Converse high tops. And I'm like, this
32:33
is my ideal outfit for a man. It was that way
32:37
in 1985. And it still is. And it still is today
32:40
in 2026. And that actually is something that
32:43
I do want us to talk a little bit about because
32:45
I think it's the Sure Thing and Harry Met Sally
32:48
have this in common. the clothes are not dated
32:53
at all. They're perfect. And we talked about
32:55
this when we talked about A Summer Place, remember?
32:57
Sort of this film in the 50s. Yes. Where all
32:59
of the clothes were so modern. But that's what
33:02
I think is because we're so many 80s films, right?
33:05
You look at them now and it's like, Jesus, what
33:07
an outfit. But every, I mean, Alison's sweaters,
33:11
right? The turtlenecks. Well, the other commonality
33:14
between between Daphne Zuniga and Claudette Colbert
33:17
is that their hair looks perfect. Perfect. The
33:20
entire film, despite rain, despite sleeping on,
33:23
despite no shower, no hair dryers. I mean, Alison
33:28
either has a perfect ponytail or just a perfect
33:30
blowout. Yes. And Claudette Colbert, of course,
33:33
has her hair like flipped up. Yes. I mean, except
33:36
for when it's deliberately disheveled. Yes, on
33:39
purpose. On purpose. To make her look white trash,
33:41
basically. Right, right. Yeah. But I don't know
33:43
how, again, I would not look as good as either
33:46
one of those women who have basically the same
33:49
outfit or a slight change of wardrobe, but they
33:53
both look incredible. And their hair, I just
33:56
don't understand the hairstyles with these two.
33:59
Daphne Zuniga's hair in this film, it is the
34:02
most beautiful hair. I always wanted hair like
34:06
that. And it really does remind me, actually,
34:08
of Kristen Davis. Yes. I mean, again, everything
34:10
comes back. Right. But Kristen Davis, that
34:13
same sort of like naturally flowing brunette.
34:16
I mean, it's just so. It's Breck hair. It is
34:18
Breck hair. It is absolutely Breck hair. Healthy,
34:22
glowing, smooth. And it was like, yeah, it just
34:24
looks absolutely incredible. It does. Again,
34:27
what has Daphne Zuniga done post Melrose Place?
34:30
I mean, who knows? Are there Law and Order SVU
34:34
episodes with her in them? There must be. We
34:37
need to IMDB it. We should have IMDB'd her. because
34:40
I'm sure she must have done some sort of sexual
34:44
assault work at some point. But again, her hair
34:49
is fantastic and she is really beautiful in the
34:52
film. And again, the whole L .L. Bean look. I
34:57
mean, it's just so polished. Absolutely. I would
35:00
wear it. Yes. It's just completely, yes, everything
35:04
look. And I even love Lance's clothes because
35:07
Lance, of course, is wearing the classic 1980s
35:10
film, you know, sort of like what, board shorts,
35:13
you know, floral board shorts or whatever. And
35:15
also looks absolutely sort of like that California
35:18
mode in 1980s films. It's styled really, really
35:21
well. It is. Everyone looks just incredible.
35:24
And so we do have, we have, as we said, hitting
35:28
all of these beats of it happened One night the
35:31
same sort of thing right are two opposites who
35:34
grow together over the course of their heinous
35:37
travel I really do love the the scene in the
35:41
inn I think that that's I don't know and for
35:43
some reason that really I don't know if you,
35:46
I mean, you probably did have this experience
35:47
when you were in high school, right? This kind
35:49
of like faux adult. I know. Right? He's like,
35:52
would you like more wine? And I was like, yes,
35:55
I would. And of course, he has the fake ID. Right,
35:58
right, right. So it's just, yeah, I love that
36:00
movie so much. And it's just, again, it looks
36:03
gorgeous, right? It just looks beautiful. It
36:06
does. And before we start talking about When
36:08
Harry Met Sally, I do think we should just comment
36:11
for one second. So Reiner does. basically within
36:15
an incredibly tight span of time, what my kids
36:18
would call a generational run, right? So we think,
36:21
so when, let's see, Stand By Me comes out, what,
36:25
84? And then we have Sure Thing, right? Then
36:31
we have The Princess Bride in 87. And then when
36:35
Harry Met Sally in 89. Wait, and Spinal Tap comes
36:39
out in like 83, right? It's just. It's insane.
36:43
It's insane how many incredible films come out
36:47
and truly iconic yes classic come out in that
36:51
short amount of time in very different genres
36:55
and very different right i mean it's just because
36:57
of course i mean stand by me i mean i would call
36:59
that a straight however whimsical and sort of
37:01
like oh childhood it can be it's obviously a
37:03
very complicated drama sure and obviously we
37:06
have the mockumentary inventing basically the
37:09
genre of the mockumentary right just so then
37:11
these fantastic so versatile it was just and
37:13
also interestingly that But the Stand By Me,
37:17
as far as I understand it, is based, of course,
37:21
on the Stephen King short story and very much
37:23
about Stephen King, whereas maybe the Shore thing
37:27
and when Harry Met Sally are based more about
37:28
Reiner himself. Yeah, that's a good point. But
37:33
all the films aren't versions of Reiner in a
37:35
sort of Woody Allen way. We're not seeing this
37:37
just rehash of the same person over and over
37:40
and over. I mean, thank goodness. Well, let's
37:44
start talking about When Harry Met Sally, which
37:47
does begin in a way that suggests very strongly
37:51
that we are still in it happened one night territory
37:54
with the long car trip from Chicago, the University
37:58
of Chicago. to New York City. So, Lauren, I just
38:02
have to ask, how much do you love this movie?
38:05
Is it like your favorite movie of all time? It's
38:08
one of them. It's one of them. Yes. Again, it's
38:12
very hard to say it is my favorite movie, but
38:14
it's one of my favorite movies of all time. It
38:17
is probably one of, I would say, four movies
38:20
where I can quote the entire movie. and have
38:25
been able to since it came out. Yeah, I love
38:28
it that much. Did you see it at the theaters?
38:30
Yes. Yeah, I did. I love it that much. So yeah,
38:34
and I'm not like a big movie quoting person,
38:37
but this one I can, for whatever reason, it's
38:41
just so memorable. Love the characters. It's
38:44
so funny and you know. I still, again, I made
38:50
a reference to the Roy Rogers wagon wheel coffee
38:54
table almost two weeks ago when we got some new
38:57
furniture. I mean, there are some things in that
39:01
movie that will just never leave my mind. Yeah.
39:04
It is, I will say, I was thinking when I rewatched
39:07
it this time around, I was thinking how sad it
39:10
is, not just, of course, the death of Reiner,
39:14
but also, of course, both Carrie Fisher and Bruno
39:16
Kirby now have passed away. And I love their
39:19
pair. Bruno Kirby is so fantastic anyway. I mean,
39:23
obviously Carrie Fisher was too, but their chemistry
39:25
is excellent. Unbelievable. And just such a great
39:29
pairing. And so we have, again, we start in this
39:33
very, very, it happened one night way. He, again,
39:37
much like John Cusack in The Shore Thing. wisecracking,
39:41
spitting grapes through the window, talking about
39:46
sex, and she of course very prim, again very
39:49
Allison -like, the schedule, she has the driving
39:53
schedule and the eating schedule and all of these
39:55
things. But we do have, right at the very beginning,
39:59
the setup of the entire point of the film, which
40:02
is can men and women be friends? And of course
40:04
the answer at the beginning is pretty much the
40:07
answer at the end. No, they can't. No, they can't.
40:10
No, they can't. Right, right. Because men and
40:13
women will always have the sex thing in the way
40:15
and the friendship is doomed. It always did kind
40:19
of bother me that the film ends up reinforcing
40:23
that. That did seem a little bit problematic
40:26
to me. Okay, well let's not go to the bad parts
40:29
yet, because to me there are none. But the other
40:33
thing about When Harry Met Sally that makes it
40:35
so wonderful for me are those interludes with
40:38
the couples throughout, which are just these...
40:41
incredible stories and these little vignettes
40:44
of these couples that have been together or been
40:47
apart or come back together. And they're so funny
40:50
and they're so touching and sweet. And of course,
40:54
Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan are the last couple.
40:56
But it's really a wonderful love letter to, again,
41:01
the whole genre of romantic comedy, but also
41:03
just showing, well, maybe this is where Harry
41:06
and Sally are going to end up. and it is nice
41:10
and it's nice because of course Generally, in
41:13
rom -coms, we don't see that happily ever after.
41:16
But with all of these couples, we have like 50
41:18
years of it. And I think my favorite, I don't
41:21
know about yours, my favorite is the man who
41:23
said, it's an arranged marriage. And he sneaks
41:27
over to get a glimpse of his soon -to -be wife
41:30
at her village. And he's like, she looks very
41:33
nice. They've been married for 50 years, and
41:35
so happily. And I think she says nothing the
41:38
entire time. But I really do like that. as you
41:42
say, then the sense is that this is where Harry
41:44
ends up. I like Roberta. Roberta. Roberta. All
41:49
the different women. All the different women.
41:51
And I saw her at any colloquium. I was like,
41:55
hey, what did I say? Hey, you want to get something
41:58
after this? It's so funny. So funny. So Harry
42:02
and Sally, it's fair to say, in the very beginning
42:05
of the movie, do not care for one another. They're
42:08
opposites. They get to New York. They get to
42:13
Washington Square. And they just kind of like,
42:15
have a good life. Have a good life. See you later.
42:16
And they're not going to be friends. And they're
42:17
not going to see each other. And the nice thing
42:20
about the movie is it spans a pretty long period
42:22
of time. And so the next time you see them, couple,
42:25
maybe five years later, I guess. And, and Meg
42:28
Ryan is in this relationship and Billy Crystal
42:31
is about to get married. And they're both kind
42:33
of a peak happiness in terms of their relationships
42:37
and, but not with each other. Not with each other.
42:40
They're very much in still in the place of you're
42:42
annoying, you're annoying. And let's just agree
42:45
to not really speak to one another. And she's
42:47
pretending basically not to know him. And she's
42:50
very happy that he doesn't seem to recognize
42:52
her. Right. And in some ways, I hate to, yeah,
42:54
that was like five, it's been five years. Right.
42:57
It's been five years. It's kind of surprising,
42:58
but, but he, of course he does recognize her
43:00
and they, and they talk on the, on the plane
43:02
and she seems surprised that he's marrying anyone.
43:05
Right. That he is willing to settle down. Right.
43:08
Right. Or that someone is willing to marry him.
43:10
Yes. This is the other person. Who is she? So
43:18
the next time we see Harry and Sally, both of
43:23
them have gone through breakups. Harry is getting
43:25
a divorce, he now has a beard, and Sally... has
43:30
just broken up with her boyfriend, Joe. And we
43:33
should actually point out that Joe is played
43:35
by Stephen Ford, the son of President Gerald
43:39
Ford. Oh, yes. Who was on like Young and the
43:42
Restless for a while. And I think that's probably
43:44
the last acting thing he ever did. He is Sally's
43:47
Joe. Wow. I don't know how I know this, but I
43:49
do. You know everything. I just, I can't help
43:51
it. It's all right. I know. So we do then, they
43:54
do establish this friendship, a genuine friendship
43:57
when they are both vulnerable about their about
43:59
getting back into the dating scene. And we have
44:04
then actually something else that binds them
44:07
together is their love for Casablanca. And there's
44:10
sort of lots of call -ups to Casablanca. They
44:13
watch it together, not together together, but
44:16
while on the phone. They talk about it, they
44:19
talk about the characters, and there are lots
44:22
of lines that they, you know. that they love
44:25
together. And of course, Meg Ryan has changed
44:28
her mind about who she would wind up with at
44:32
the end. Would it be Rick or would it be, yes,
44:34
Laszlo? So we also have then these two fantastic
44:38
supporting characters in Carrie Fisher's character,
44:42
who has been having an affair with a married
44:44
man for a long time and kind of fooling herself
44:46
there. You're right, you're right. I know, I
44:49
know. And then of course, Bruno Kirby, Harry's
44:52
best friend. And we have this attempt to sort
44:54
of fix the other up, basically, when Harry tries
44:58
to fix Bruno Kirby up with Sally and the opposite.
45:01
And of course, Bruno Kirby and Sally Fisher.
45:05
Carrie Fisher fall madly in love. And this is pretty
45:10
much the way things go for a while. Now, I do
45:12
have to say, watching it again, I always forget,
45:16
maybe one of my favorite scenes, the scene at
45:19
the football game with Bruno Kirby and Billy
45:22
Crystal when they're doing the wave in between
45:25
Billy Crystal telling Bruno Kirby about how his
45:29
divorce is about to be and the entrance of Don't
45:34
fuck with Mr. Zero. Mr. Zero knew you were getting
45:39
a divorce. There's just so many amazing scenes,
45:48
dialogues. There's so much incredible banter
45:50
in these scenes that it's just, again, I think
45:54
the movie is probably most famous for the Katz's
45:59
Deli orgasm scene. But to me, Although it's
46:02
a good scene, it is in no way the best scene
46:05
of the movie. I concur. And I think one thing
46:08
I did notice, I think more this time around,
46:10
was the kind of book ending. And so obviously
46:13
the orgasm scene is a book ending to when we
46:15
have seen them on their road trip at the very
46:18
beginning of the film. When they first have this
46:21
conversation about sort of... men and women and
46:25
when Sally is obviously much more keyed up and
46:29
repressed a la Allison at the beginning but now
46:32
she is relaxed enough that she is going to fake
46:34
an orgasm in the middle of the deli and what's
46:39
also I think I definitely hadn't noticed before
46:41
is that that scene comes right after Billy Crystal
46:47
telling Bruno Kirby that he made a woman meow.
46:51
And for some reason, I had never noticed the
46:52
juxtaposition of that very confident, "I made
46:55
a woman meow," with then, of course, the big conversation
46:58
about faking an orgasm that we were immediately
47:00
after. I think for so, maybe like the past, I
47:03
don't know, X number of years, I've only watched
47:05
it in pieces, sort of on cable or whatever. And
47:09
so this was the first time I had sat down to
47:10
watch it start to finish in a really long time.
47:12
So what is your favorite scene in the film? there
47:16
it's again don't Mr. Zero might be my favorite
47:22
scene in the film and it's interesting because
47:23
it doesn't have Harry and Sally. But I just love
47:26
the chemistry between Bruno Kirby and Billy Crystal
47:30
and just the juxtaposition with them telling
47:32
this incredibly, you know, painful personal thing
47:35
with still syncing up with the wave at the football
47:38
game. I just think it's great. It's so great.
47:41
It's just so genius. So for those who don't know,
47:45
Harry and Sally eventually do get together. And
47:48
it is this kind of like, you know, happens when
47:51
Sally is very, very vulnerable. She calls Harry
47:54
over. She's just found out that Joe is getting
47:56
married and he's marrying someone he met relatively,
47:59
you know. Couple yeah a couple months ago certainly
48:03
hadn't been with this new person as long as as
48:05
he had been with her and so they get together
48:09
and then it becomes incredibly awkward and Incredibly
48:15
paralyzing for their friendship and then they
48:19
don't speak for I guess a couple months. Yeah
48:22
And then we do have, and one of the things of
48:24
course that has been a theme in the film is that
48:26
basically that Harry sleeps around. And that
48:28
this is, he is this kind of womanizer who has
48:31
this entire scheme about that he has to leave
48:33
almost immediately. They've had an earlier conversation
48:36
about how Sally likes to be cuddled after she
48:39
sleeps with someone. And again, he's running
48:40
out the door as soon as possible. And so we see
48:43
pretty much exactly that happen in their own
48:46
experience when they hook up. And so, but then.
48:50
Everything works itself out everything works
48:52
itself out on New Year's Eve on New Year's Eve
48:54
Well, they had made this promise to one another
48:56
that if neither one of them had a date for holidays
48:58
They would take each other which at the time
49:00
they made that pact they were friends and it
49:03
seemed to make sense But then of course once
49:05
they know that they're in love or at least Sally
49:08
is like, you know If you want to be with me,
49:10
then you're gonna be with me But I don't I don't
49:12
want to be number two or something like that.
49:14
So He runs to this party, and we have the running.
49:19
I mean, it's perfect. It is. And the other thing
49:21
about When Harry Met Sally, and certainly this
49:24
isn't a pre Sex and the City or Gossip Girl,
49:27
is that the use of New York City, and again,
49:31
it is Woody Allen -esque in a way, but uses it
49:34
in a very, very different way. Yeah, I agree.
49:36
The bookstores, the restaurants, the sharper
49:40
image, the park, the apartments. And they really
49:44
make the Metropolitan Museum, the way that they
49:48
use New York as this wonderful, wonderful landscape
49:52
for their love story in a very explicit way,
49:55
too. I mean, there are these sort of iconic places
49:57
and the arch and there's no question of where
50:00
they are. And they refer to it over and over
50:03
again. And then, in fact, the line, you know,
50:05
it's too bad we can't be friends because you're
50:06
the only person I know in New York. Right. Well,
50:09
and if I can jump in just one second, what I
50:10
think is also really, really important about
50:12
that, again, not even thinking of sort of the
50:15
Woody Allen thing, is that we have a sense of
50:18
New York in that film that is very 1930s, 1940s,
50:23
1950s. That is, we do not have a 1970s era film,
50:28
gritty New York, gritty cars, you know, we're
50:30
uptown, we're downtown, right? Blah, blah, blah,
50:32
blah, blah. It is a New York that is a callback,
50:36
right? To sort of Plaza Hotel New York. And done,
50:40
of course, very consciously. Yes. Very consciously.
50:43
It's a very sweet New York. Yes. And of course,
50:47
some people might criticize that. Sure. But nevertheless,
50:50
it is, to me, completely justified in terms of
50:52
what the film is trying to do and, again, the
50:54
callbacks to that sort of old classic Hollywood
50:57
era. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So by the
51:01
time that they are together at the end, and again,
51:03
we only see them as a quote. Real couple yeah,
51:07
I don't know three minutes when we are being
51:10
interviewed Yeah, we don't see them as a real
51:11
couple until we have no idea what will happen
51:14
and hopefully there's happily ever after But
51:18
it is it is really a terrific commentary on not
51:23
just the question of the friendship, but also
51:26
the ways that relationships evolve over 10 plus
51:30
years and the way that people change and the
51:33
way that the relationships that they had really
51:37
changed them. And again, Sally is so different
51:40
by the time. They both are. They both are. But
51:43
I mean, he says, oh, well, you're much softer
51:45
now. It's kind of funny. But it's nice to see
51:50
the fresh out of college versions of them, basically
51:53
the Gibb and Allison versions of them, and then
51:56
the later versions of them when they're sort
51:59
of settling into their careers, and they've settled
52:03
into who they are. And they have friends, and
52:07
they have adult parties, and they're playing
52:09
Pictionary, and things like that. Well, and that's
52:11
something else I think that is so striking, is
52:15
that to see their apartments, right? So when
52:19
they encounter each other on the plane, they
52:23
are maybe, what, 26, right? Because it's about
52:27
five years after college when we see them on
52:29
the plane. And then it's maybe five years later.
52:33
When they're in the bookstore. When they're in
52:35
the bookstore. And so that's what's so interesting
52:37
to think. We're seeing, basically, People who
52:40
are in their mid to late 20s and then early 30s
52:44
right, but of course already by their mid 20s
52:46
They are so professionally established. Yeah,
52:49
she has gone to what Columbia Journalism School
52:52
He is a political consultant. They're in these
52:55
fantastic apartments and not and it doesn't seem
52:58
Unrealistic right now. It's just a really interesting
53:00
callback that for that that was Possible at that
53:04
time at that time. Absolutely. Probably not possible
53:07
now his apartment is a kind of sick It's sick.
53:11
And actually the apartment that Bruno Kirby and
53:15
Carrie Fisher built is incredible. It is. And
53:17
you're thinking, okay, do we ever know what Carrie
53:21
Fisher does? No. No, we don't. She's like something.
53:24
But she does something. Yeah. And I always think,
53:26
oh, she's an actress who's a caterer because
53:28
that's who she is. Hannah and her sisters. Right.
53:31
Anyway, sorry. But Bruno Kirby we know is this
53:34
writer and kind of prolific writer. And he also
53:37
has a book out and things like that. But you
53:39
would think these two are like investment bankers
53:42
because they live in the apartment they get is
53:44
multiple rooms, standalone kitchen. This isn't
53:50
studio New York. Boxes for tables and stuff,
53:54
no. No, no, no. This is pretty fantastic. And
53:57
also when you see the Wagon wheel coffee table
54:00
scene and you see... Harry and Sally walking
54:03
out of it. Also, you get a sense that this was
54:05
a really nice walk up. And again, you don't know
54:09
exactly where in the city is, but it's pretty
54:12
nice. It's pretty nice. And so I really, I love
54:15
that in that it does make the film feel timeless.
54:18
Something else I think that works. Actually,
54:21
we haven't even mentioned that it was written
54:22
by Nora Ephron. Right. Right. We have to get
54:24
that out. Right. But something else I really
54:26
love about it, and we were just talking about
54:27
- Wellesley Grad. Yes, of course one of my sisters
54:30
ah So we were we were talking about this a little
54:33
bit with the Sure Thing, but this is also a
54:35
film again where the clothes are Mostly maybe
54:40
a couple of Billy Crystal sweaters notwithstanding
54:42
right mostly times right and obviously Sally
54:46
is dressed in this very sort of like explicitly
54:49
Diane Keaton Yeah, we're doing a callback to
54:52
Manhattan absolutely in the Manhattan movie in
54:54
the clothes, but oh every single thing she wears.
54:59
Fabulous. It's fantastic. Fabulous. The menswear
55:01
inspiration, the hats, the jackets, the pleated
55:05
tweed. I mean, it's just... Carrie Fisher's looks
55:09
too are terrific. You rarely, there's the one
55:13
scene, I believe it's the scene in the Sharper
55:15
Image where you see Meg Ryan wearing jeans. But
55:18
there are very few scenes where she actually
55:20
wears jeans in the rest of Amiya. That's a sort
55:24
of, again, it is a polished look for her. And
55:27
the hair, I mean, what's so funny is that she
55:29
even has like a perm and her hair still looks
55:31
good. And it's like, how is this even possible?
55:34
Right. And so I think that I really, really love
55:36
that. And again, it's the same thing with The
55:38
Sure Thing where you're like, and I feel this
55:39
way about Risky Business, a movie that is absolutely
55:42
one of my favorite 80s films. But it's the same
55:45
thing where everybody looks classic, right? The
55:47
film itself looks beautiful, but not dated, not
55:52
this ridiculous, like padded shoulders or whatever.
55:55
And what I do think is so great about When Harry
55:58
Met Sally is that it's all it is like we have,
56:03
especially with the Harry Connick Jr. right in
56:05
the classic songs. Right. The sort of great American
56:08
songbook stuff. We have a film that is kind of
56:11
sharing DNA with Woody Allen's classics. Right.
56:15
But without the bitterness. Right. Without the
56:19
neuroses. Right. Without the kind of sense of
56:22
like damaged -ness. And so I love that it is
56:27
like really leaning on some of that, but at the
56:30
same time is so And I think that's Ephron. I mean,
56:36
the sweetness of it, the kind of love letter
56:39
to New York, the very, very strong female characters,
56:44
which one can say about Allen's, you know, who
56:47
knows, right? But they're always seeing their
56:48
therapist, you know, nervous breakdowns and Valium
56:51
and stuff. And nobody in this film is having
56:53
a nervous breakdown. And again, it's so optimistic.
56:57
And even the Carrie Fisher, even when you see
56:59
that great scene of Meg Ryan and Carrie Fisher
57:01
and her other friend, having this conversation
57:04
in the beginning, and Carrie Fisher seeing this
57:07
married man. But she's even kind of hopeful about
57:11
that. It'll work out. It'll work out. And then,
57:14
you know, oh, I know you're right. But you do
57:17
everything they're saying is kind of wistful,
57:19
but also, again, as you're saying, very positive.
57:22
And I think that's the Nora Ephron effect of
57:24
you have this very strong female point of view
57:28
from Ryan. And you see the film from both our
57:32
point of views, of course. But Ryan's is so strong.
57:35
And you can also see Harry for being kind of
57:38
a, you know, kind of a dick. And womanizer. And
57:42
just somebody who really doesn't recognize the
57:45
value of relationships. And maybe he, for him,
57:48
men and women can't be friends because he doesn't
57:49
really understand what friendship is. at least
57:51
with a woman might look like. And that when he
57:54
becomes friends with Meg Ryan, he starts to see
57:56
what that would look like. And then he is genuinely
58:00
brokenhearted, right? There's no indication that
58:02
his marriage has been anything other than full
58:04
commitment on his part, right? He hasn't been
58:06
cheating on his wife, right? And he really is
58:08
blindsided by this divorce. And one of the things
58:11
I also really like about it in tune with what
58:14
you're saying is I think my two favorite moments
58:18
in the film, I love the It's so tiny, but I love
58:22
it so much that Bruno Kirby and Sally, I keep
58:25
wanting to say Sally Fisher, that's so funny.
58:27
And Carrie Fisher had, but once they've gotten
58:28
off the phone, right? Where she says, promise
58:32
me I'll never have to be out there. And he says,
58:35
you will never have to be out there. And then
58:37
very similarly, when... Sally is explaining to
58:40
Harry about her breakup with Joe, right? She
58:43
tells that sweet, painful story of being with
58:47
Alice's child, right? I cry every time I see
58:50
that. "I spy a family.” And I love that because
58:53
there is this... there's not this kind of like
58:56
sense of oh okay she has to be empowered and
58:59
successful in her career if she never has these
59:01
things right and that part of of where joe has
59:04
been coming from is this whole like oh again
59:06
we can have sex on the kitchen floor and we can
59:08
travel whenever we want but then he himself is
59:11
shown right to have been decided he wants commitment
59:13
he wants to marry this other random woman but
59:15
that then that sally acknowledges to herself
59:19
that she does want children and then that isn't
59:22
really an issue right for the rest of the film
59:23
and that's fine but I love that because you also
59:27
have this little tiny but so powerful moment
59:29
where she's like I am going to get what I want
59:32
out of life Yeah. This guy is not it, and...
59:36
But also that it came so organically. Yes, exactly.
59:39
That in some ways it's not like they're in the
59:40
car in the beginning and she's like, by the time
59:42
I'm this, I'm gonna have this. I'm gonna have
59:43
this many kids. I'm gonna have that. Yes. That
59:45
you get a sense that what she wanted from Joe
59:47
was, you know... satisfying relationship, a partnership,
59:51
but then when she realizes she wants a family
59:54
and she comes back and she says, well, is this
59:57
it for us? And he's like, nope. And then that
1:00:01
was like this kind of awakening for her and that
1:00:04
it does come so naturally and much more realistically
1:00:08
than again, seeing her in the very beginning
1:00:11
as this kind of, again, as kind of an Alison.
1:00:13
Yes, a planner. The whole life is planned out
1:00:16
with the farmhouse and the basset hounds and
1:00:18
all that. that Sally is ambitious and wants to
1:00:23
be in a meaningful relationship with a, quote,
1:00:26
grown up, right? But also wants kids and stability
1:00:31
and that sort of thing. And yeah, I mean, it's
1:00:36
interesting because for 1989, I mean, you do
1:00:40
see women, this question of, well, is this one
1:00:43
of these? in the era of Fatal Attraction and
1:00:48
all these other movies that were like, oh, ambitious
1:00:50
women. You do see at least one ambitious woman.
1:00:56
We don't know what Carrie Fisher does, but I
1:01:00
get a sense she has some career. Yeah, she's
1:01:02
not sitting at home. Right. And you also see
1:01:05
these really powerful female friendships. And
1:01:10
also friendships across couples, which is really
1:01:13
wonderful. And again, I don't know how many other
1:01:17
films where you really do have that kind of connection
1:01:19
between the four of them. That's a good point.
1:01:23
And because something else I really love and
1:01:26
that, again, is such a fantastic detail in terms
1:01:28
of the emotional strength in ways you just don't
1:01:30
see in a lot of films. Again, when Bruno Kirby
1:01:32
says to her at the New Year's Eve party where
1:01:35
he says, I'll kiss you. And it's such a wonderful
1:01:38
moment. It's not like he's being creepy. No.
1:01:42
You're my wife's best friend, right? And I know
1:01:44
you're going to feel sad, and I'll do this thing
1:01:46
to make you feel better, you know, because this
1:01:48
is important to you. And I just love that. Again,
1:01:50
it's such a super tiny thing, right? Straight
1:01:53
up Nora Ephron, such emotional weight. I just,
1:01:56
I love it so much. Yeah. Again, RIP Bruno Kirby
1:01:58
and Carrie Fisher. And Carrie Fisher. It really
1:02:01
is so sad to watch it now for those reasons.
1:02:04
Yeah, it really is. And I was thinking about,
1:02:05
a lot about. particularly Carrie Fisher watching
1:02:08
that. Also going back to the Sex and the City
1:02:11
episode where Vince Vaughn is Carrie Fisher's
1:02:15
personal assistant. Yes, it's so funny. So it
1:02:18
all it all goes back or forward rather. But yeah,
1:02:24
it's just terrific and it's always on cable.
1:02:28
I actually, I knew you were doing this podcast
1:02:30
and I didn't have to watch it again because I
1:02:31
know it so well. But then what do you know, I'm
1:02:33
just laying in bed and AMC has it on and I watched
1:02:37
it from beginning to end. And there's no reason
1:02:40
not to because it's just so good. So, and so.
1:02:45
As you told me, there'll be a Rob Reiner tribute
1:02:48
hosted by Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan. And I guess
1:02:54
we'll hear more about who knows what. And I would
1:02:57
say we will look forward to that, but it will
1:03:00
be kind of a painful moment. Very, very painful.
1:03:04
It's just so tragic, but so grateful for all
1:03:08
of his work. I rewatched Spinal Tap after he
1:03:11
died, and again, everything is just, and I'm
1:03:13
going to repeat, I just think he was such a terrific
1:03:15
actor. Just so, so versatile, and just, again,
1:03:19
such a loss. But I'm so grateful for these films.
1:03:22
I mean, again, The Princess Bride, we haven't
1:03:23
even talked about, The Princess Bride is just
1:03:24
one of the biggest jewels. in film history. I
1:03:27
mean, it just really is. Look, I'm going to call
1:03:29
up A Few Good Men. See, maybe I should watch
1:03:32
that again. I like a few good men. I like a few
1:03:35
good men. That's something else. And Misery,
1:03:36
I mean, I like. Misery is fantastic. I mean,
1:03:38
like Misery is so good. And again, I think the,
1:03:42
I mean, obviously Crystal and Reiner became so
1:03:45
close and the Crystal family and the Reiner family
1:03:48
became so close. So this of course affected him.
1:03:51
You know, as the media has talked about, very,
1:03:54
very, very. hard. But also, these other partnerships,
1:03:59
there's Stephen King wrote this amazing piece
1:04:02
in New York Times about his friendship with Rob
1:04:05
Reiner. Oh, I didn't read that. It was really,
1:04:07
really beautiful. It was really, really beautiful.
1:04:08
And it's interesting because you don't normally
1:04:10
put those two together, but then you remember
1:04:12
all the stuff. All the stuff, right? So many
1:04:15
interesting partnerships and collaborations that
1:04:18
he did that were so versatile and really showed
1:04:21
both dramatic, comedic, fantasy, see all sorts
1:04:25
of things and all sorts of wonderful writers
1:04:28
who worked for him. And yeah, I mean, it's just
1:04:32
terrible what happened to him and to that family.
1:04:36
So anyway, it's a sad note to leave on such amazing
1:04:40
and happy and hopeful texts. But again, I'm so
1:04:46
grateful for the work and it's so life -affirming.
1:04:49
It is. And when you're in a bad mood, you can
1:04:51
always watch When Harry Met Sally and it will
1:04:52
make you feel better. It always makes me feel
1:04:56
better. It always makes me laugh. I just love
1:04:59
it. And the Meg Ryan hairstyles are just... When
1:05:02
she has the whole Farrah Fawcett flip at the beginning.
1:05:05
And she sprays it in the car. I absolutely love
1:05:08
that. It's just so spot on. Well, I think, Lauren,
1:05:12
this is probably... are at a good point to stop.
1:05:16
We will maybe look ahead to doing a future episode
1:05:19
about some other Rob Reiner stuff that we love.
1:05:21
We can think about that. And maybe, actually,
1:05:24
we do need to get back on a better schedule.
1:05:26
We do. And I feel like we will. And so tonight
1:05:29
is the Super Bowl, which I know you care about,
1:05:32
and I don't because your Pats are playing, who
1:05:34
the Eagles have already beaten, so I just don't
1:05:36
care anymore. And also, we are in the midst of
1:05:41
the Olympics. Maybe we can also do some Olympic
1:05:45
themed. Interesting. Texts. Cause there are many
1:05:49
of them. Or things, things that have to do, that
1:05:53
are Olympic adjacent. I wouldn't mind it. So.
1:05:58
Well see the only one I can think of is Munich.
1:06:01
Oh. And. Well, or things that where maybe they
1:06:04
don't go to the Olympics. Yeah. Because I'm still
1:06:07
on a mission to get you to watch Heated Rivalry.
1:06:10
Okay, I saw a tweet yesterday about heated rivalry,
1:06:13
that it was basically a gay man who was saying,
1:06:18
this is why I can understand this is straight
1:06:20
woman porn, but here's why I dislike it. And
1:06:23
so it was an interesting tweet. I should find
1:06:25
it again and send it to you. I hear that. But he's
1:06:28
like, there's lots of ass in it. I've read...
1:06:30
Hot ass. That was a quote from him. Hot ass.
1:06:32
Well, also, I didn't send this to you, but the
1:06:34
New York Times put out a piece yesterday where
1:06:37
in real life, a retired hockey player married
1:06:41
his boyfriend who was a Cartier salesman. And
1:06:44
that was actually like a front page, like wedding
1:06:46
section. It was like the real life heated rivalry,
1:06:49
although it really wasn't a rivalry because only
1:06:51
one of them played hockey. Look, my friend Laura,
1:06:55
who may be listening, she just sent me a text
1:06:56
telling me she's about to go to a Boston Bruins
1:06:59
game. But she pointed out that there wasn't as
1:07:01
much gay sex as she was expecting at the Boston
1:07:03
Bruins game. Or in your rivalry? No, no. No,
1:07:08
in the real Boston Bruins game. Oh, OK. That
1:07:10
was the joke. Look, I'm here for it. I'm also
1:07:13
here for the critique. But I do really want to
1:07:17
know what you think. Okay. And I'm just putting
1:07:20
it out there for the listeners that I have baited
1:07:22
Christine... Yes. Yes. ...into watching Heated
1:07:25
Rivalry, which I did watch. If we ever talk about
1:07:30
it, I actually watched it on my phone on a plane
1:07:33
with my phone about two inches from my face.
1:07:36
So that no one else would see the sex scenes?
1:07:37
So that no one else would see. Yeah. But... Uh,
1:07:41
yeah, as part of my Santa Barbara trip. So yeah,
1:07:44
so with Santa Barbara and Heated Rivalry. Well,
1:07:48
on that positive note. Okay. Okay. I guess we
1:07:51
will talk to everyone later. Well, have a wonderful
1:07:54
Super Bowl night. May the Pats bring the glory
1:07:58
and until next time.