Latest / The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders / I See You! with Erin Diehl — A Leader’s Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy
Transcript
- Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in everybody. You are listening once again to the Authority Podcast on the BE Podcast Network. Really pleased to have you with us. I think this episode is going to touch on a lot of things that you'll find interesting, some novel ideas, some different approaches to the common challenges that you're facing. So my guest today is Erin Diehl. Erin is a business improv edutainer, failfluencer, and keynote speaker, through a series of unrelated dares, Aaron created Improve It, a unique professional development company that uses improvisational comedy and experiential learning to sharpen leaders and teams. so they can thrive in ever changing environments and do it [00:01:00] with a whole lot of laughs along the way. Erin has spoken on global stages with companies including Amazon, LinkedIn, Obama Foundation. She has an energy and a message to share with the world that creates lasting ripple effects for change and relevant to all of you working in education. Erin is a living testament to the power of lifelong learning and how working to understand ourselves helps others to do so as well. Her book, This is her first book. It is an Amazon bestseller and a top new release. It is called I See You, A Leader's Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy. That's what we're talking about today. Aaron, welcome to the show. Erin Diehl: Thank you, Ross. I'm so excited to be here. I love talking to lifelong learners, because I am one myself, and I'm here for this. Let's do it. Ross Romano: So lately I've been issuing what for some people is the easiest question and other people is the hardest question right up front, which is what's the [00:02:00] big idea of your book? Erin Diehl: Oh, okay. I love this. So the overarching core message is self love plus selfless leadership equals a magnetic culture. Overarching message is you got to give to yourself. If you are pouring from an empty cup, you got nothing to give. So in order to show up as the great leader that you want to be led by, you have to start with you. Prioritize yourself. Prioritize self care, know who you are, and then make sure you're giving extra attention and special care to the most important person in your life, you, so that you can be the selfless leader you want to be led by. And once you start doing that, once you really learn to lead selflessly with empathy and grace, you start to attract teams, people, organizations, Associations, community to your life, and people want to stay. It [00:03:00] keeps people around. It's a retention strategy. It's also a recruiting strategy. It's more than just saying these words. It's embodying these words, doing these words. And I know education is a hard place. I know I mean, I have to say this. I feel like teachers should be paid more than doctors. It is the hardest job. I, I started off my career in my 20s teaching children's theater. And let me just tell you, it was some of the most tiring, taxing times of my life. And so I just have to give so much credit to people in education. You deserve nothing but love for the selfless work that you do, but you have to make sure you're giving to yourself first. Ross Romano: And so the book is written to provide a variety of strategies and approaches to leaders, right? About energizing their team broadly, but around a variety of particular goals around attracting and retaining talent and [00:04:00] developing a culture. What are some of the common struggles that leaders are having that sort of led into not only I think your Rationale behind writing the book and what you included in the book, but I think it's related to your work professional development as well. Like what are the things that leaders are coming to you and saying, I'm really struggling with this. Do you have something that can help? (ad here) Erin Diehl: such a good question, Ross. I got, I have data and then I have my personal story to back this up. So after the pandemic, I know for sure in, in my work as a professional development company, we were so burned out because we not only had to pivot our completely in person business, as I'm sure educators listening had to do, you had to make your classrooms completely virtual for longer than anticipated. And so, That space of living and working in our homes [00:05:00] created significant burnout. There was no cutoff time. There was no commute time. There was work and sleep. And sometimes we had dinner and meals and saw our family in there, right? So coming out of 2020, even to 2022, so many leaders were feeling fatigue from not only themselves, but from their team. And I have some data in the book that backs this up from a Gallup study, but more importantly, I, myself, went through a time I call a period of my three P's. My first P was pivoting. Extreme pivoting, as I'm sure anybody listening can relate to during that time. I'm telling you, I didn't have a digital leg to stand on, Ross. Like, everything we did was completely in person, including the way that I did sales. Literally all sales meetings were conducted either in person or over the phone and we would always try to meet that person. We were based out of Chicago. My second P was [00:06:00] people pleasing because I'm a recovering people pleaser. I had just had a newborn baby. I came back right to work right when the pandemic started. I was giving to this miracle baby boy. I was giving to my family, giving to my team who was fearful for their jobs, giving to my clients who were trying to figure out how they were going to make their professional development work. I was giving to my mother who had just had a stroke and was recovering. I was giving and giving to everyone except myself, which led to the third P, which was I'm not talking like, ouch, I stumped my toe type pain. It was chronic pain that found its way in my back and shoulders that lasted literally those entire two years. Chiropractors couldn't crack it. Our doctors couldn't diagnose it. And, The pain was what I later realized was due to dis ease, disease, dis ease of the emotions that I did not [00:07:00] process. I was just disassociating from. at the end of the day with a glass of wine or a really bad reality television show. And I wasn't dealing with the fact that my, my entire company was going through this huge pivot that I was giving to everyone and I was mentally and physically depleted. And that gave me my third P pain. And so it took some healing, a lot of healing, a lot of internal work to get through that period. And I now live a different set of three Ps. I live a set of Ps of priorities, peace, and I now obviously know my purpose, which has guided me to write the book, and I truly was guided to write it, but it was coming out of 2022 into 2023 where I had this healing, and I knew myself as a leader of a team was drowning, and I wanted to help people get back on their feet again. Ross Romano: Yeah, and I'm [00:08:00] sure it's quite common, if not near unanimous among our listeners that they often put others first. I think they got into their field of work with an attitude towards service and because of the outcomes they want to deliver for others. Do you have a way of maybe helping leaders? who are, right, in their positions for the right reasons who truly are trying to demonstrate leadership, right, versus having a quote unquote leader title, right, of understanding, I guess, where that line sort of is or where some of the indicators are where we're differentiating, like servant leadership and attitude of service to putting others first to the extent where it's becoming harmful or it's and [00:09:00] harmful to ourselves or to even our efficacy as a leader. Erin Diehl: Yeah, oh, such great questions. So my first indicator is the mind body connection, okay? So if you are feeling any type of physical pain, there's always a reason, a mental, emotional reason behind it. It's so fascinating. When I started studying this work, even the common cold, Ross, you were telling me about your sinuses. Do you know what happens when you, why you have colds and sinus infections? Because you run down because you're over processing you're in some part of your life You're not giving to yourself the rest it needs and there's all types of I'm a little wacky a little woo And I got some practicality in there But my blue side is literally that's your body telling you to slow down to rest To give to yourself. So I always start with okay as a [00:10:00] leader. There's an activity we pull from in the book specifically where I have you write down, and you draw three columns, and in the left hand column you write down any illnesses that you've had in the past year. And in the middle column you write down what activity you were doing or what was going on in your life at the time that illness occurred. And in the third column, the right hand column, you write down any emotions that you might have been experiencing while that activity was taking place. And you can almost always see the connection. And so I've had, for example, I had a woman on my team who was in the Teach for America program and she was doing Teach for America in person and then they pivoted completely virtual. For two years, she led classrooms virtually during the pandemic. She had chronic back pain, and that pain mysteriously went away when she [00:11:00] left the job. My son's teacher, he, she's a new teacher this year. She is a two year old. She was very overwhelmed at the beginning of the year. And she would tell us that because she's like, they're just learning all these things. I have so many students. She lost her voice for a month in the beginning of the year. Because she was so run down in her body, so as a leader, if you can connect the dots and see what your body is telling you, if you can actually listen to those whispers before they become a yell or scream, you can prevent. yourself from burning out. You can prevent illness, you can keep yourself healthy, but it takes a lot of inner work to do that and a lot of people just glaze over that inner work because they've got so much to do. But if you don't slow down, your body will slow down for you. Ross Romano: Yeah. What? [00:12:00] is we mentioned, you mentioned, or I read out the full title of the book, I See You, A Leader's Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy. So radical empathy how do you define that and how is that kind of foundational to this entire approach? Erin Diehl: Yeah, so I think empathy is not just putting on a pair of somebody's shoes and seeing what they're doing for the day. In my mind, empathy is saying, hey, can I borrow your Nike Ducks, Ross? Can I try them on? Can I get a blister? But can I give them back to you and talk about it? And that's where the radical comes in, and I actually have a really awesome activity that demonstrates this. If you're open to it, can we do this together? Ross Romano: Let's try it. Erin Diehl: Okay, it's very easy. Tell me a challenge. So it starts with one person asking the other person, what's a problem plaguing you in your life right now? What's a massive challenge you have? Ross Romano: Focus, trying to I think [00:13:00] consolidate my areas of focus so that I can go deeper, fewer things, more depth, right? And that's what I'm struggling with because I'm trying to do too many things. Erin Diehl: Great. Now, I, as the person who asked you the question, am going to repeat back what you said in the first person. Focus. I'm trying too hard to do many things, and I'm not able to get as in depth with those things as I would like because I'm losing focus. I didn't say it word for word. There's a couple sentences in there, but I got the gist out. I said it as first person, or in the first person, because what I did in that moment, Instead of just repeating back your problem, Mrs. Jones, if this is Ross's problem. I filtered that through my own lens. And somehow while I was saying that, I pictured you sitting down at your computer, starting a project or beginning to write, and really struggling because you have so many different areas of your life [00:14:00] that need attention. I saw you just sort of getting up and walking away as I said that like it felt like you're like, oh, there's too much and you just walked away. So by saying it back as you, I'm able to filter that through your lens. And this is a very simple activity. It's a force activity, but if you were able to listen to your partner, your teammate, your student, your principal, your leaders, problems, your own problems, and then repeat them back in the first person. You understand more about the human, not the human doing, the human being. And what happens in leadership is we have high expectations. We have certain things we want and need our team members to do. And a lot of times we see those things as transactions. But for example, if I'm a principal and one of my teachers is perpetually [00:15:00] late, and I just think, oh, well, Susan's late again, why is Susan late? This is frustrating. However, if I take the time and I talk to Susan, and Susan mentions that she's going through a tough time at home, and she's having trouble getting her kid to daycare on time, so she can show up at school on time. I see that situation completely differently and I'm able to listen, provide a solution, and also give some love to Susan who's going through a hard time in her life. And yes, is it frustrating that she's late because I need her at school at 7 55 before the kids get there at 8? Yes, but I'm also able to see the full person. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a word that is also coming to mind is humility, Erin Diehl: Yeah. Ross Romano: and the necessity of removing [00:16:00] one's own experience from the equation in many cases it, most leaders, particularly certainly leaders in schools have this experience, leaders in other organizations. have previously been in the position of the people they're leading, right? Okay, I'm a principal now, I used to be a teacher, so I have my own experience of what that was like and what my life was like at that time and how I got to where I am and that's good, right? But you can't over generalize that or assume that everybody has the same experience or that the experience of somebody. In that role today is the same as it was when I was in that role. Maybe that was years ago or all these various things to say, look, I just need to focus on understanding what. each of these individuals is experiencing currently and how I can best support them and how I can [00:17:00] assume positive intent, right, and do all these things that I need to do to support their success and kind of take myself out of it and not, because there's a lot of that. Friction that exists, right? Well, I, when I was doing that job, I didn't have this problem. So why is this person doing it? Or or maybe I'm just currently I'm learning now more about taking care of myself and putting myself first. But when I was doing that job, I was totally selfless and and I had a different experience of it where I'm almost imposing that on others when that's I know now that's not even the way it should be, but it's sort of, there's almost, You can build up a lot of resentment, I think, if you try to over, over apply and over generalize your own experience, the challenges you had, the areas where you were successful, because each person has a unique journey, unique [00:18:00] circumstances, unique challenges everybody catches their lucky break at a different time, right? And so that's a lot of what I'm hearing as you're describing this radical empathy is in order for that to really come in, like that, that you know, version of, okay, I'm just applying what I know to this needs to kind of move to the side. Erin Diehl: Yes, it's so true. I found myself doing that as a leader of my own team I think about, well, when I was in this type of entry or level role, I was doing X, Y, and Z, and it was a horrible experience. And I'm thinking to myself, why would I want to put that on somebody else? And so, I think you're absolutely right in redefining it a little bit. Radical empathy. It really allows people to feel seen, heard, and valued. And when people feel seen, heard, and valued, they want to show up. And when they want to show up, productivity rises. When [00:19:00] productivity rises, everyone thrives. In an education system, when everybody wants to show up, it makes it such an easier place. People go through the day with flow and feel like they're abundant versus the day feels hard and it's scarce. And I think a lot of teachers can relate when they know that they've had a really good day. They're usually in a positive mind space and they felt like they've been listening or listened to. And I think that's a huge piece too of radical empathy is making sure the person that is, is giving the challenge feels heard. And that's also like, for example, if that activity I was repeating back in the first person, what you said, but how did it feel to you to have me do that? What was that like? Ross Romano: It it is an interesting experience to hear it out of somebody else's mouth, right? I mean, it almost can authenticate your own experience back to you even though it's only a [00:20:00] repeating repetition of what you've said it'll, it makes it feel as though, okay, somebody else is relating to this. And even if that's not what you're personally experiencing, it's like, well, I'm saying this in a way that it's not, I'm not questioning it, or it's not sarcastic, Erin Diehl: Yeah, and you feel like I heard you, even though it is a forced activity where I'm repeating it in the first person, and I think this relates a lot to, again, that internal work. The first part is recognizing that there is a challenge, and then when you feel validated, let's say from, employer, or you feel validated from a friend or a therapist or a coach, whatever it might be, you start to say, okay, I'm not nuts. There is something here that I need to fix. And then you start digging a little deeper. What is it that I need to fix? And you start doing the work to realize [00:21:00] what it is that is the root of the problem. And the simple act of a leader listening to someone who has a challenge, this could be a student teacher relationship, makes that person feel validated and as if they are not alone and gives them the space and the freedom to then go do the work they need to do. Ross Romano: you know, yeah, and Hopefully this goes somewhere. I'm just thinking through this idea in real time, but it's another idea that's coming to mind and it's the importance of basically practicing non judgment in order to learn more and to be able to dive deeper, right? And. But that doesn't mean not using critical thinking and evaluation, but if you think of it in terms of where the term comes from, the judicial process, the judgment is the end of the trial. So once the judgment is made, there's no [00:22:00] more learning, there's no more discovery, there's no more it's over. the whole process of the trial, the jury is learning, learning, learning. If that goes on and on, they can learn endlessly. So if you have that mentality toward, I want to keep learning more, diving deeper here and you know, another, it could relate to a, an episode that we had previously for listeners who haven't heard this one yet. Check it out with Andy Lopata. around mentorship and reverse mentorship in particular in organizations and understanding these things that change generationally that we don't necessarily understand. And there's these common friction between generations because the older generations say, well, the young people, don't understand this and the young people say well what you don't understand is this and and it can be it's very easy for that to happen right in [00:23:00] towards the radical empathy piece when I entered the workforce when I graduated college and grad school went to the workforce. It was during a terrible recession. Job market was horrible, right? It was hard to get a job, which you did. You were overqualified, underpaid, all these. And so it took a long time to get any kind of real traction. Erin Diehl: Yep. 2011, 2011. Ross Romano: Yeah, thereabouts, yeah and those who were entering more recently were having a totally different experience. And so it would be easy to say, well, they expect too much or they're overprivileged or whatever the case may be. Whereas one, they have no control over that. That's environmental and circumstantial. Two, I would hope that's the way it should be for every everybody who puts in the time and energy to train for a profession or get an education or just who is just a human being, right? Deserves to have [00:24:00] good professional opportunities, financial stability the growth opportunities, etc. But there are things that People in each of those circumstances can learn from one another and dialogue about what their experience is like and fill in gaps for each other too and say, look, here's something I learned because of what I went through. Okay, here's something that you learned and how do I create, how do I take the good things? and create more of that for more people and for myself. But that only is going to happen going back to the beginning of this kind of stream of consciousness with that non judgment piece because I could immediately make a judgment and say, These people are spoiled, they've been given too much too soon, and and I don't want to deal with them, kind of thing, and it's open and shut, and the case closed, versus saying, let me actually learn about this, because my job is to help [00:25:00] everybody to be successful, not to make a determination about who deserves to be successful. (ad here) Erin Diehl: Well, and it's so funny because you're like, I hope this goes somewhere. And immediately when you started talking about it, it made me think of improv, which is what I use to teach people to be their highest selves. And this idea of yes and, which is, Yes, I hear you. And when you say no in a conversation or in a scene in improv, you're squashing somebody's ideas. There's nowhere to go. You're the fun vacuum. You've ruined the scene, truly, because there's nowhere you can take it. Same thing applies in this, in the game or the scene of life. You hear somebody's idea. You don't negate it. You don't necessarily agree, but you Add to it without making them feel bad for sharing. Oh my gosh. You just built momentum and then that person builds an idea. You build an idea together. You bring a brick and a brick, and you build a house. But when you knock down ideas you're left [00:26:00] with nothing. You can't build a single thing. Because you're judging. And that judgment is a innovation squasher. It's a fun vacuum. It is literally making the other person not feel seen, heard, and valued. And then that person doesn't want to show up anymore. And then they eventually leave and then you have to rehire and find somebody to replace that human. And hopefully you don't perpetuate the cycle, but it could happen. Sorry, that was my bracelet that fell, which I really love, which is also applicable. I have this bracelet and I have to take it off for podcast interviews because sometimes it jiggles, but it says be here now and I hold it during podcast conversations just as a reminder, but it's also applicable to our conversation because when you give somebody the gift of your presence, your full presence. That right there is also empathy. That's, that is a, if you've ever been with a person in a very crowded [00:27:00] room and they make you feel like the only person in that room, It's such a great feeling because you feel validated, you feel seen, you feel heard, you feel valued, and that's really what the crux of radical empathy is to me. And an empathy really starts with ourselves, like you can't be unkind to yourself and then be kind to others. You're doing a disservice to everyone. So that's the full circle of empathy right there. Ross Romano: Yeah, and since you, you started to reference it, so we might as well go to, yeah, attracting, entertaining talent, right? And how this all is creating the environment for People to want to come and work for you, want to stay, and using you, you write about using core values as a part of this, and I think that's an important piece is making [00:28:00] those, demonstrating those, right? Leveraging them, making them work to your advantage, and not just having them be words but leveraging and using what's in our control, which is what we do on a daily basis. Thank you. The culture the culture we envision and then work to create and each of the things we do every day is in our control. There's a lot of things that aren't are outside of our control, but that is it's an abdication of responsibility to just blame external factors on the things that we can be doing in a competitive talent environment, in an environment where It sometimes is hard to fill all the positions we want, and there are certainly numerous challenges but that a leader can influence this, but yeah, what, how does that look? Erin Diehl: Yeah, so I talk about this in the book, but I mean, I'm going to ask you and I'm going to ask your audience. Think of a leader in your [00:29:00] life who made you feel seen, who made you want to show up. I have a case study in the book of this woman named Jennifer D'Angelo. She was my former boss. and she was the most selfless leader. She is the case study for empathetic leadership. And then I want you to think of a boss or a leader. I don't think they get the title leader. A boss who was the opposite of that. An unempathetic leader who was trying to climb the ladder and would do anything to, and step on anyone to get to the next rung. And how that person made you feel. Because if you're at any stage of your career, you can even think if you're early, if you're early in your career, you can think of a coach or a teacher that you had. So it doesn't have to be a leader, but the difference that those two people make the way that the person who is empathetic and has empathy. This selfless attitude makes you feel, and then the [00:30:00] opposite effect of what that other leader makes you feel, and how you show up. And the feeling is drastic. It's so different. It is so alarming when you think about how you perform, how you want to even walk in the door to that building. So when you are able to be led, or you can be the leader you want to be led by, you With a selfless, empathetic, compassionate mindset, you start to attract. I call that person a visionary. And then the people who they attract the missionary because the visionary sets the tone for the vision and the missionaries are there to, again, carry that mission forward. And you're, when you talk about core values, that for me has changed everything. I have a team, an internal team, and I lead a team of 22 improv professionals that are contract employees. But my internal team and I got very specific on what. [00:31:00] We are at our core and it wasn't just me who created the core values. It was all of us. So we know who and what we are at our core. We measure ourselves internally, biannually on these core values. Our annual, biannual reviews are a review of the core values and we measure ourselves against each one. And that is 360. I get reviewed as well. And we also hire people based on those core values. create behavioral interview questions, and we make sure that the person coming into our organization, whether it's as a facilitator on the internal team, embodies those core values. And yes, of course, we need skill sets. Like if I'm hiring a graphic designer, of course, they need to have graphic design skills. But I also want to make sure that the fundamental values that they possess are in line with what we stand for, because those are things that are Very hard to teach. [00:32:00] That's why I have a business. We teach soft skills. We teach you how to become better at networking and be a better leader. But The change has to start with the human being. So when you as the visionary are putting out these selfless, empathetic vibes to the world, you magnetically attract this culture of like minded humans who are different in shape, size, color. It is not like the same type of human being with the same hair. It is literally the core of who they are. matches the core of your mission, and they believe in that core so much that they are going to spread that message in every email, every piece of communication, every internal interface that you have possible. And I have to say, my team, I have such long tenure. I've been in business 10 years. My Director of Talent with me 10 years. Our Client Experience [00:33:00] VP, 7 years. And all of my facilitators, either 8 or 7 years. They've been with this business and it's because they are great humans. They believe to the core of what this this company does. And that is what you could do as a leader is to get very specific on the core values that you embody, your team embodies, allow it to be a two way conversation, group those core values together, and then measure performance and hire based on those core values. Ross Romano: yeah. Yeah, that's an important point at the end there and then something that has come up in some recent discussions here as well about you, once you have those core values clearly articulated, understood and applied you can use them both as a tool for selecting. Who is the right for your organization and also for how you lead once they're in there, but you're [00:34:00] going to have much better results when you have a staff of people who understand, believe in, buy into, embody the organizational core values. And and it's important. And I think this is in particular in a field like education or non profit work, other types of you know, industries that are service mission oriented by nature that you still need to identify your unique mission, vision, values, and what it is about your particular organization that you stand for, how you describe it and that you can't just assume that you can, you're covered under the umbrella of. what your field stands for, because that's not going to make for a strong building or a strong [00:35:00] individual unit because everybody is going to have their own interpretation of that or be kind of, rowing on kind of a different cadence, right? Even if everybody's in it for Generally similar reasons. It's like having a culture means that it needs to be uniquely developed. Erin Diehl: Yes. I love that. Yeah, it does, and it's. It is such a top de like, you can't just say these are the core values and not embody them. You have to embody them, embrace them, and be open to feedback if you're not. I had a team member on my team come to me at the end of last year, I'll never forget this, and we were trying some stuff on social media that like, I was just trying. It didn't feel super in alignment. And she asked me, she goes, Erin, what are you doing? She goes, it's not who you are. That is not in alignment with what we [00:36:00] are. And she's been with me 10 years and she checked me real quick. And I was like, thank you. Thank you for that conversation. And I changed and I made changes and I'm so much better for it. And I'm so grateful to her that A, she had the wearing the overall consciousness of what our core values are. And B, she had the ability to not just sit there and think it, but to have a conversation and to make it better and to change because she believes in this mission so much. Ross Romano: Yeah. So Aaron, we are getting towards the end of our conversation, but one thing I wanted to make sure we touch on, I don't know if we've been great examples of this yet today, but we still have time. Humor humor is certainly a part of the approach you take, how What can that do? How can that open things up or make a difference or you know, be beneficial to [00:37:00] kind of this entire process of sort of redeveloping our leadership, right? And our professional development roles and all of that. Erin Diehl: So, such a great question. And we have laughed today, Ross. There has been fun moments. But we're talking about some serious stuff, and that's okay. Humor is serious business. And, I will tell you, the reason that we use Improv as the teaching tool is the catalyst for everything we do. By the way My book, At the End of Every Chapter, has an activity rooted in improv comedy to help reinforce the message of every chapter. The reason we use it is because what happens when you are laughing is that you literally drop the hypothetical mask that you wear to work. Like, I'm showing up as work Aaron now, and then I go to work as work Aaron, and I act this way, but when I get home, I'm completely different. When you use laughter in comedy and play. You drop this pretense, you show up authentically through that authentic self and through [00:38:00] being present in that moment. You are able to connect with people in a different way. So you're connecting with your co workers in a completely different way. You're also able to drop this facade. And what we do is right when we get you laughing, we sort of trick you into learning. It's like, We're going to make you laugh, have a great time, you're going to interact with your co workers in this beautiful way, and then slip in, and we're going to teach you something. And you retain it because you experience it, and you feel it, and you embody it. And so, humor is the number one teaching tool that I have used to reinforce, Any message that we're talking about, train people on soft skills because you have to feel them. You can't just talk about them. You have to experience them. And it's also the easiest way that I know to drop any barrier to communication and make people feel seen, heard, and valued. We keep coming back to that. But it's, for me, it's you know, I've been, I was voted [00:39:00] class cloud in my high school. I've been all the things I've been involved in comedy my entire life. I saw the serious side of it and what it could do and how it could change lives and how it changes rooms. And so for me, that was really, that was the launching pad to everything. And I love making people laugh, like selfishly. It's like my greatest joy is if I can make you laugh, I've done my job and give you some positive vibes in your day. But it's also a wonderful teaching tool. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to investigate another idea, I think that like high ceiling leadership is. improvisational, right? It's, it requires trust, number one. I'm going to do my part, and then I'm going to trust that the next person is going to take this forward, and then the next person will take it from there, and then maybe eventually it comes back to me, but we're, we have to work [00:40:00] together. I trust that the audience will understand what's happening and they'll respond because what we're exploring a lot of new ideas. We don't exactly know where it's going to go, but we're just going to trust in it as opposed to, I guess, what a stand up approach to leadership would be, which is I control everything myself. I don't I, Practice this. I've done it. It's all myself. Nobody else has allowed input. If somebody else talks, they get kicked out. I don't trust the audience. I've practiced this a bunch of times. I know exactly what they like and what they don't like. I get rid of it, right. And you know, that's There's good skills in there for a creator, a creative person but an organization requires collaboration and it requires saying, look, what we're going to come up with here if we're all kind of contributing and feel empowered and free to contribute is going to be a lot greater than what we would have started with [00:41:00] or what I would do on my own. Erin Diehl: I love that. That's it. That is Yes and that is what improv comedy teaches. It's an ensemble. It is not a single person on stage. That's stand up comedy. You want to be a stand up, go be a stand up. But if you want to be an improviser, you got to carry that ensemble, and you got to drop the ego and make o, and you got to show up and allow everybody to be a part of the scene. Ross Romano: So Aaron, I I mean, maybe our listeners just like me, but I assume they like podcasts generally. You host a podcast called the Improve It Podcast. What, yeah. What do you talk about on there? Where can people check that out? Erin Diehl: Thank you. I love love bringing people over to what we call our Improve It Peeps community. We are a group of people lovers, people who love people, and our goal is the same as yours. We have lifelong learners who want to better themselves and reach their highest piece or highest form of consciousness through play. So we have guests. From Chris Voss, [00:42:00] who's an F. B. I. interrogator telling us how to negotiate. To Kim Scott, who is a radical candor and is a famous author whose book has inspired me in so many ways. And we just, it's learning. But it's through laughter and play and we have a ton of fun, but we also go deep. So come on over there, check it out. Thank you, Ross, for having me on your show. You're amazing. Ross Romano: Well, yeah, well, what I should have said is people still listen to this despite me. So I'm sure they'll like your show Erin Diehl: don't say that. Ross Romano: Link below and the link to both of Aaron's websites, learn to improve it. com for our company. And it's Aaron deal. com. So you can learn more about the book. I see you there. You can learn about the podcast. You can find out about Aaron's consulting work and other resources. Anything else in particular you want to highlight for people to check out? Erin Diehl: I have one more thing I can give you and your team. It's a free PDF, fillable PDF. [00:43:00] We really found that the book is great for a book club, especially with leaders and teams. So it's a PDF. If you want to start a book club for your friends, your family, your ERG, it's a timeline and a checklist to help you do that. I can give you that laying cross. If anybody wants to grab it, it's a free downloadable copy, and it's pretty in depth. And I got to tell you, it's also fun. So, Give you guys that as well. So thank you, Ross. Ross Romano: Excellent. Excellent. So folks will put all of those links below, check out any and all of them. Check out the free resource. That's a good. a good place to start at least. And then if you want to go even deeper you can go all the way through to the book. Please also do subscribe to the authority if you have not already for more author interviews like this. Aaron, thanks so much for being here. Erin Diehl: Thank you, Ross. This was awesome. Great questions. You rock. Everybody give Ross five stars. Ross Romano: Yes, please, somebody, no. Erin Diehl: thank you. [00:44:00]