Latest / Real Deal Media / 'The Untold Story of Charles Manson'

Transcript

'The Untold Story of Charles Manson' · Real Deal Media

• 0:37
  Oh yes, welcome back. Welcome back to the Late Night
• 0:42
  Thoughts Observatorium over here in Thrillio Media's finest
• 0:47
  podcast, I Honest fears out there.
• 0:50
  Certainly Late Night Thought host presenting an incredible
• 0:53
  show tonight. This is the Far out podcast that
• 0:57
  talks about everything and nothing at all here as I welcome
• 1:01
  an incredible author named Neil Sanders who I discovered years
• 1:06
  ago. Believe it or not, believe it or
• 1:08
  not, he wrote an incredible book that is more prevalent today
• 1:13
  than probably was years back when we first got together.
• 1:17
  The author of the book called Now Is The Only Time That Is
• 1:21
  Real, one of the most crucial books I've read in quite some
• 1:24
  time about Charles Manson, The Manson Family in the entire
• 1:29
  environment of that infamous time in history in American
• 1:32
  culture, which we're going to be getting into.
• 1:34
  He's also the host of a a wonderful podcast.
• 1:38
  If you haven't heard it, you haven't watched it, you haven't
• 1:41
  Dared get into it, It's called Some Dare Call It Conspiracy and
• 1:46
  Incredible Podcast. So I want to welcome to the
• 1:48
  first time here Late Night Thoughts, someone who is will
• 1:53
  blow your mind tonight. And that's the one and only
• 1:55
  author in podcast host Neil Sanders.
• 1:58
  Thank you very much for inviting me on, mate.
• 2:02
  It is so finally great to have you on.
• 2:04
  I know it. The time difference has always
• 2:06
  been a challenge, but you know, there really is no time and
• 2:10
  there's no relevancy than it is now.
• 2:12
  That's why we brought you on, because you want to talk about
• 2:16
  historical things happening right now.
• 2:19
  The one of the last few of the Manson Family followers who's in
• 2:23
  prison, Leslie Van Hooten. Well, not only was she up for
• 2:27
  parole, but she just got granted parole over there in California.
• 2:30
  And I said, Oh my God, what does Neil Sanders think about this?
• 2:35
  Historical, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, well, The thing is
• 2:39
  we're gonna have to wait and see now.
• 2:40
  There are going to be some people that basically just
• 2:42
  think, no, there's no way she should ever be let out.
• 2:44
  And and that might that might even extend to the sort of
• 2:47
  people that get the final saying this.
• 2:48
  This isn't the first time that she's been off for parole.
• 2:50
  It's not even the first time she's been granted parole.
• 2:52
  This is the fifth time that she's been granted parole, and
• 2:55
  every time before it's been refused at the final.
• 2:59
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, strangely, Leslie was
• 3:01
  actually originally she was sort of let out for about two years
• 3:06
  and she did some things like she went to the Oscars one year and
• 3:09
  stuff like that. So she went after the crimes
• 3:11
  were committed. She was basically her trial was
• 3:13
  sort of delayed for a period and there was a period where she was
• 3:16
  free and then she was basically incarcerated.
• 3:19
  So, but she's what she's now. I think she was 19 when the
• 3:23
  crime happened. It's now it very much depends on
• 3:29
  on what what you sort of thing what we're going to be getting
• 3:31
  into here tonight. We're going to go on a a real
• 3:34
  safari back in the time probably starting in you know the lead up
• 3:38
  to 1968 which they say killed the the flower power movement
• 3:41
  and then we'll kind of circle around to where we are today
• 3:44
  with Leslie Hooten who is I didn't even know went to the
• 3:47
  Oscars I mean she's not the the girl that accepted the Oscar for
• 3:50
  Marlon Brando is she. No.
• 3:52
  No, that would be. Wouldn't have been.
• 3:58
  Disturbing, huh? So let's get into this new
• 4:02
  because you're one of the most fascinating guests I've had on
• 4:05
  my shows. And if you don't know, I had.
• 4:07
  Last time Neil and I, we spoke to each other was probably 2017
• 4:12
  when I brought him on my old show of truth be Told over there
• 4:14
  in Hollywood. And Neil's story, in Neil's
• 4:18
  version of it, his narrative has never resonated to me like
• 4:23
  before when I would hear the Manson story until I heard
• 4:26
  Neil's version of it. So let's get into this, Neil,
• 4:29
  and work our way to present day. Because you have 1968.
• 4:33
  You have Charles Manson, who freaked out the entire nation
• 4:37
  and killed Sharon Tate responsible for it and sat in
• 4:40
  prison for many decades, like the most recent parole.
• 4:42
  So I'm going to give you the. Floor Well, where do you want to
• 4:45
  start? I mean in regards to why?
• 4:48
  Why is that in prison? So yeah, the base, the the, the
• 4:52
  official story is Charles Manson had a group of yeah, a group of
• 4:58
  rejects Flower Power people and they're responsible for killing
• 5:02
  the murders or committing the murders of Sharon Tate.
• 5:04
  Yeah, basically. Charles Manson was sort of like
• 5:07
  a bit of a career criminal. Like he was born into
• 5:10
  circumstances that weren't too sort of advantageous for him.
• 5:13
  His mother was. We could describe her as a bit
• 5:16
  of a good time girl. She wasn't terribly responsible.
• 5:20
  There are some stories that are not true but but sort of give an
• 5:23
  impression. Like there's a very famous story
• 5:25
  that she tried to swap him for a picture of beer when he was
• 5:27
  quite young and like when he was literally a baby or a toddler.
• 5:32
  But I don't think that that's actually true.
• 5:33
  I think that was just fabricated to to show that she wasn't as
• 5:38
  responsible a parent as she might be.
• 5:39
  But in in her defense, she was very, very young and she was a
• 5:43
  bit of like a bit like a hippie before the hippies really, that
• 5:45
  that's how Charlie certainly describes her and.
• 5:49
  She ended up going to prison for trying to knock people out,
• 5:53
  stealing from them by knocking them out with antique Coke
• 5:55
  bottles, which is a bit of a, you know, unusual thing to do.
• 5:58
  Well, you know, it's a it's a yeah.
• 6:01
  So anyway, Charlie basically didn't really have the sort of
• 6:04
  best of time he was in and out of various sort of institutions
• 6:07
  like he did, apparently was a little sad when he was a kid as
• 6:09
  well. This story is like basically him
• 6:11
  stealing all the toys from the local children and collecting
• 6:14
  them all together. This was at Christmas time and
• 6:16
  he set fire to them all, basically.
• 6:18
  So he broke into people. Stole their Christmas gifts and
• 6:21
  set them on fire because essentially people were picking
• 6:24
  on him. There was there's also stories
• 6:25
  that one of his relatives, because he was sent to live with
• 6:28
  various aunts and uncles and grandparents and such like that
• 6:33
  who were varying degrees of sort of hillbillies and stuff like
• 6:35
  that. And one time to toughen him up,
• 6:37
  he sent him to church wearing a dress.
• 6:38
  So that basically just to force him to get into fight, to get
• 6:43
  used to fighting, really to sort of boy names do types of things.
• 6:47
  And so so you know he didn't have the best of upbringing was
• 6:50
  in and out of places like he was in Boys Town for for a time and
• 6:54
  in certain other prisons. Essentially what what he would
• 6:58
  he was initially doing was things like stealing cars.
• 7:01
  He was a bit of a petty criminal.
• 7:03
  He wasn't really that that sort of skillful.
• 7:06
  He he stole some cars and the behest of his wife at the time,
• 7:11
  took him across state and got caught doing that and so.
• 7:15
  You know, And then later on he cashed a check that it was
• 7:18
  turned out to be stolen and he ended up in prison, essentially.
• 7:22
  And to be quite honest, prison turned out to be the making of
• 7:25
  Charlie in a number of ways. Like one he sorted himself out
• 7:29
  mentally. By which I mean, and this is
• 7:33
  going to sound quite strange and I personally wouldn't recommend
• 7:36
  it, but it seemed to help him out.
• 7:37
  He got very interested in Scientology.
• 7:40
  Like you know a Chuck called Laney or Amia and Laney or Amia
• 7:43
  claimed to have been trained by almond this so that not to be
• 7:46
  true. But anyway he did actually sort
• 7:48
  of know his stuff Scientology wise and he he basically taught
• 7:53
  Charles Manson a load of Scientology tricks.
• 7:55
  So like a lot of people might be familiar with Charles.
• 7:59
  I've seen him in documentaries and stuff like that and someone
• 8:01
  will ask a question like who are you?
• 8:03
  And he'll go who are you? So what's your name?
• 8:05
  What's your name? And there's also sort of stories
• 8:08
  of him basically being able to sort of guards in prison would
• 8:12
  pick on him and say, well, you're in here forever.
• 8:14
  And it's like I'm everywhere I am.
• 8:17
  That's sort of what coming to now or now is the only thing
• 8:19
  that's real. It's the concept that basically
• 8:21
  he was perfectly happy in himself.
• 8:23
  And if you sort of look at some of the Scientology TR routines
• 8:26
  like training routines. Things like bull basing, for
• 8:29
  example, is learning to take a load of abuse of people.
• 8:32
  And this famous footage of famous descriptions of Charles
• 8:36
  Manson making lots of different faces and putting his hands up
• 8:39
  against other people's hands and making them follow them around
• 8:41
  and doing sort of weird dances and things like this.
• 8:44
  And these are all taken from Scientology type.
• 8:47
  Well, they're Scientology training rituals that basically.
• 8:51
  They're there to to to what they say is come to now basically.
• 8:55
  So it's the idea of being completely happy in the moment
• 8:57
  and being completely contented with with yourself And you know
• 9:01
  for for one of the IT seems to help with with Charlie.
• 9:05
  He credits it with with solving his depression and basically,
• 9:09
  you know, making him, making him into a a a sort of full person
• 9:13
  really. When when he's in prison, he
• 9:16
  meets several people who are quite influential.
• 9:19
  One, one of the people that he meets is Creepy Carpets.
• 9:24
  Now creepy Carpets was his cellmate and he was a member of
• 9:28
  the Marl Barker gang. The Marl Barker gang was sort of
• 9:30
  the robbery gang and he was one of the members.
• 9:34
  He got caught and he was in prison with Charlie and he was
• 9:37
  influential in a number of ways. One, he sort of taught him a few
• 9:40
  chops on guitar. Charlie previously learned.
• 9:43
  I think it was a Boys Town, but I may be be wrong about that.
• 9:46
  But he previously learned off a priest and he also learned to to
• 9:49
  box at this particular establishment as well when he
• 9:51
  was younger. So he's pretty tasty with his
• 9:53
  hands with Charlie. But anyway, keep your copy.
• 9:55
  It's not only taught him to to improve his guitar, but he also
• 9:59
  put him in contact with certain mobsters, including apparently
• 10:03
  Mickey Cohen and. Charlie had already cultivated a
• 10:07
  very brief but quite influential relationship with what was he
• 10:12
  called the the Prime Minister of of Crime, Frank Frank Costello,
• 10:17
  who was in the same prison as him for for a brief time.
• 10:19
  Now what? What's interesting is that when.
• 10:22
  Charlie meets Frank Costello. All of a sudden he seems to sort
• 10:25
  of like turn out of a new leaf fly rye and he goes on this
• 10:29
  mechanics course. And this mechanics course is
• 10:31
  basically like seemingly to get like a viable trade when he when
• 10:35
  he gets out, what he's actually learning to do is to have to
• 10:37
  start cars without keys and stuff.
• 10:39
  And when he gets out, yeah. Well, he does two things.
• 10:42
  He becomes an even more prolific car thief and he's moving around
• 10:46
  in Texas and stuff like that. But he also starts pimping out.
• 10:50
  Girls in Laredo, TX and later Three Star Entertainment in
• 10:55
  Hollywood with a gentleman called Tony Cassini and Tony
• 10:57
  Cassini was also similar to Mickey Cohen and Frank Costello.
• 11:02
  It was also in the Mafia and so. Charles Matson wasn't in the
• 11:07
  Mafia by any stretch of the imagination, but he was a
• 11:10
  criminal that had certain activities, which were moving
• 11:13
  stolen cars, selling drugs and pimping out girls.
• 11:18
  They're all basically sort of intertwined with certain
• 11:21
  elements of Mafia, and he basically was giving right ahead
• 11:27
  now. But there's a suggestion that
• 11:28
  basically the Labiancas were in debt to Frankie Carbad, who's
• 11:31
  another incredibly influential mobster that that Charlie just
• 11:34
  so happened to claim to know. So so although basically the
• 11:39
  kind of the story would be that he's just sort of this random
• 11:43
  guy that sort of learn bits and bobs in prison, he apparently
• 11:47
  took a massive amount from the ball count to win friends and
• 11:49
  influence people. It looks like he's actually a
• 11:51
  bit more of a sort of sort of fell into career criminality
• 11:54
  really. And then met a few people that
• 11:56
  were very, very sort of influential and helpful because
• 11:58
  like when he gets out in the, when he gets out in the 60s just
• 12:01
  before he meets all the the people that would come to become
• 12:04
  his so-called followers. He's offered jobs through the
• 12:09
  creepy carpet connection to mafia owned music clubs in San
• 12:14
  Francisco and Los Angeles and stuff like that.
• 12:15
  And that's via the influence of Mickey Cohen because Mickey
• 12:18
  Cohen and Matthew were very much in control of the entertainment
• 12:20
  business by at that point. So all these things are sort of
• 12:24
  driving him to to be, to be the person that he is and like so
• 12:28
  one of the things that he's massively overlooked by quite a
• 12:30
  lot of people when looking at the Manson case because they
• 12:32
  want it to be sort of 50 core leader and that sort of thing.
• 12:35
  Is the fact that he was in there with pimps and he was so he was
• 12:37
  in prison with pimps and he very much respected pimps.
• 12:40
  And then he went into pimping himself first transporting girls
• 12:44
  down in Texas and then into pimping in in Hollywood as well.
• 12:49
  And now obviously one of the things that Charlie is known for
• 12:52
  without skipping out too much is having this this sort of cadre
• 12:55
  of of young girls that followed him around and seemed to sort of
• 12:58
  worship the ground that he he walked on.
• 13:00
  And the the mainstream of accusation is that.
• 13:03
  They had some sort of like religious sort of like, you
• 13:06
  know, desire for him that they they felt that he was, you know,
• 13:11
  the leader of that cult. Basically they they admired him
• 13:13
  for that. When they actually, if you look
• 13:14
  at it in a sort of far more sort of pragmatical sensible sort of
• 13:17
  explanation is that, oh, he's, he's a pimp and they're being
• 13:21
  pimped out or at the very least using similar sort of techniques
• 13:26
  like, do you know what I mean? Sort of manipulation and
• 13:28
  coersion techniques to get these people.
• 13:30
  Right under the thumb, really. I don't know if you've like
• 13:32
  there's a very good book called Pimp by Eisenberg Slim and that
• 13:36
  sort of explains, explains the reaction between them.
• 13:40
  But if you sort of listen to the way that they they talk about
• 13:42
  Slim in this book, it's not just similar to some of the things
• 13:45
  that some of the girls have said about Charlie, basically
• 13:49
  interesting. So just to paint the picture of
• 13:52
  where we are now so we have a young Charles Manson who who for
• 13:58
  all intents purposes he had a mother that was that could have
• 14:02
  been a a a prostitute a hustler just very shady and kind of grew
• 14:06
  up in the system and in and out of prisons etcetera.
• 14:08
  So was really raised on a criminal mind.
• 14:12
  Now as he's now established approaching his you know 30s
• 14:15
  he's now finds himself in the LA basin over there in LA Hollywood
• 14:19
  Southern California and has kind of a clientele isn't really he's
• 14:23
  more or less like what what a a a food merchant or a merchant in
• 14:26
  general was for mafias. He was a household name in that
• 14:29
  fixture. So now he's in LA now you have a
• 14:32
  huge booming music scene. You have Hollywood's alive.
• 14:37
  You have the British invasion, you have the San Francisco
• 14:42
  scenes booming, and now you have Charles Manson in LA and I would
• 14:47
  maybe Laurel Canyon area. You want to take it from there
• 14:50
  new. I think first, the first
• 14:52
  basically was to hate ash free because that's where obviously
• 14:55
  all the sort of the oh, right, right, right, right.
• 14:57
  That's right. The first just prior to being
• 15:00
  released from I think it was Terminal Island, was the the
• 15:03
  last person that he was in. Just prior to being released
• 15:06
  from there he was visited by a really high-priced lawyer and
• 15:09
  this has never really been explained by anybody but this,
• 15:12
  this lawyer. His usual clientele would be
• 15:15
  mafia guy as well dressed Italian businessman type fellows
• 15:17
  and stuff like that. His name is George Shipley and
• 15:20
  at the time he was charging he was charging $250 an hour for
• 15:24
  his services, which at the time was like astronomical.
• 15:27
  For whatever reason, he met with Charlie just prior and had a
• 15:29
  private meeting with him just prior to being released from
• 15:31
  prison. That's never really been
• 15:33
  explained, but it's it's a curiosity.
• 15:35
  It's one of the sort of unexplained things that's within
• 15:38
  the case that that makes you go hang on.
• 15:41
  There is something more to this than than meets the eye that the
• 15:43
  the mainstream sort of version of this isn't quite accurate
• 15:46
  really. So he turns into Ashbury and the
• 15:49
  reason he's gone there is because two things like 1.
• 15:51
  He's got these potential for music jobs.
• 15:54
  And two, you know, someone there that's got a brick of weed whose
• 15:57
  name escapes me. But he basically goes over there
• 15:59
  and just starts kind of hustling, essentially.
• 16:02
  And his music career is a bit strange like this, differing
• 16:06
  sort of tales of it. Some people say in some versions
• 16:10
  he's not particularly well thought of because his music is
• 16:13
  not really up with the times and stuff like that in other
• 16:15
  versions. He did get a series of jobs in
• 16:19
  in other versions. He's so good that The Beach Boys
• 16:22
  are interested in him which will come on to you in a bit.
• 16:25
  And and he claims that for example he wrote certain songs
• 16:29
  that were stolen by Neil Diamond and various other people at The
• 16:33
  Beach Boys At one point was rubbing shoulders with people
• 16:36
  like Jimi Hendrix and Elvis and people like that but we'll come
• 16:40
  on to that in a bit but but yeah so he's he's.
• 16:46
  Well, this is the thing. There's different stories about
• 16:50
  his music, The one that's that's told in Manson in his own words,
• 16:53
  which isn't, It isn't a particularly accurate book.
• 16:56
  But you say that what he would do is he'd pass around a jug and
• 16:59
  say when he's on stage, basically I've got a friend
• 17:01
  outside and basically we've got two choices, everybody to put
• 17:05
  some money in the jug now and we get like, you know, appreciated
• 17:09
  and paid for playing or we rob you of everything when you
• 17:11
  leave. So you know, he wasn't averse to
• 17:14
  sort of throwing his weight around and stuff like that.
• 17:16
  And the other interesting thing was that basically he's supposed
• 17:18
  to be on parole right? When he when he's been released
• 17:22
  in the late 60s and he's floating around Haight, Ashbury
• 17:26
  and etcetera, he's supposed to do 2 things, get gainful
• 17:30
  employment and get a permanent address.
• 17:32
  And he does neither of these things.
• 17:33
  Instead, what he does is he somehow manages to get hold of
• 17:35
  him through a series of exchanges.
• 17:37
  He gets hold of a Volkswagen. Minibus Microbus and painted
• 17:41
  black. The first person he met was Mary
• 17:44
  Bruner. So he basically starts meeting
• 17:47
  certain people. And then the second person that
• 17:49
  he met was squeaky from Rose, squeaky from I believe.
• 17:52
  Now this is where again all sorts of stories told.
• 17:54
  You know the Marilyn Manson track cake and sodomy, right?
• 18:00
  It starts with the mantra. Are you sorry without to swear?
• 18:05
  Absolutely. Please.
• 18:06
  OK, I am the God of fuck, right? OK.
• 18:08
  Which is like the way that comes from is that for years and years
• 18:12
  and years was purported to be what Charlie said to Squeaky
• 18:16
  when he when he first met. When you saw in the street and
• 18:18
  decided to to go to and he introduced himself as the God of
• 18:22
  fuck. If you actually listen to him
• 18:24
  and Squeaky what he actually said was hi, how are you doing?
• 18:28
  But this this is kind of the point.
• 18:29
  I know it sounds like a minor thing, but this is one of the
• 18:31
  things about the stories that so many things have been sort of.
• 18:33
  Massively blown out of proportional sort of like hype
• 18:36
  talk to make it sound a lot sexier than it is or a lot a lot
• 18:40
  more sort of bizarre than it is. And to be honest, it doesn't
• 18:42
  really need that at all. Because there's enough weirdness
• 18:45
  and enough sort of like, you know, celebrities and organized
• 18:48
  crime and murder for Christ's sake.
• 18:50
  Like without sort of having to get into the sort of ideas of it
• 18:53
  being connected to like mind control satanic cults, right?
• 18:57
  Well, this is so interesting too, because I think for a lot
• 19:00
  of people, they may not know that there's a lot of what you
• 19:04
  would think are artists or celebrity types that are in
• 19:07
  Hollywood now but are actually very prolific drug dealers.
• 19:11
  You know, Brandy's the singer Brandy.
• 19:14
  Her brother, well, who was connected to Whitney Houston
• 19:16
  towards the end was a prolific drug dealer, Corey Feldman.
• 19:21
  I know that personally, that's probably not even publicized.
• 19:23
  Well, yeah, he would routinely do Molly parties at his house in
• 19:27
  Reseda. So this has been going on for a
• 19:31
  long time, just before recently. It's nothing new, but it's new
• 19:36
  for a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:38
  And also basically celebrities are just like everybody else.
• 19:40
  They like to do drugs, basically, So it they gotta work
• 19:44
  too. You know, that's what they're
• 19:45
  not being chose right in between.
• 19:47
  Movies, yeah, but we all Christ, sometimes it wasn't for the
• 19:50
  drugs you would be able to. But basically he then kind of he
• 19:56
  sort of floating around a bit and he starts sort of meeting
• 19:58
  more and more people. I think the next person they met
• 20:00
  was was Ruth Ann Morehouse. And basically this was a little
• 20:04
  bit sketchy because basically, well, it was totally sketchy
• 20:06
  because she was very, very young, this girl, incredibly
• 20:08
  young and he sort of ingratiated himself with the family.
• 20:11
  This is where he got the the microbus from.
• 20:13
  He exchanged it for a piano, if my recollection is is correct.
• 20:17
  But then basically what happened was this Ruth Ann.
• 20:19
  She ran off with him and just declared that she was in love
• 20:21
  with him. And the father Dean Moore House
• 20:24
  wasn't particularly happy about his you know teen daughter
• 20:28
  running off with this 33 year old like ex-con like can he
• 20:34
  believe and and so he sort of takes them down to try and and
• 20:38
  to get hold of them And apparently at this point Charlie
• 20:41
  introduced him to to LSD and at this point they all became much
• 20:45
  much sort of happier with the whole situation.
• 20:47
  Charlie himself apparently like LSD is sort of like quite
• 20:50
  important in the story because it's claimed that he used to
• 20:52
  sort of manipulate people and brainwash people and stuff like
• 20:55
  that, which I think, I think it's elements of truth to that.
• 20:57
  But I don't think it's quite the way that he was sort of it's
• 21:01
  portrayed saying the health of Skelton book for example.
• 21:03
  They did do acid. They did do various things but
• 21:08
  but a lot of the stories like doing rituals where Charlie
• 21:12
  wouldn't take acid and it'd be crucified and it all have to
• 21:15
  worship him as Jesus and then worship him as the devil and
• 21:17
  stuff like that, that didn't really happen by the by the
• 21:21
  looks of it basically that was. Right in so, so he's in Haight
• 21:25
  Ashbury, which I find very, very interesting because towards the
• 21:29
  end of the 60s, I would say mid 60s towards the end you see LSD
• 21:33
  coming into the consciousness of young Americans provided by the
• 21:38
  Central Intelligence Agency and they they start spreading it
• 21:41
  through probably the universities over there in the
• 21:43
  Bay Area, Haight Ashbury and which was also the epicenter
• 21:46
  years later. Well, for the recruitment of Jim
• 21:49
  Jones who was working for the homing home urban department,
• 21:53
  HUD connected the government who kind of ran a similar mine
• 21:58
  experiment years later in Ghana with the Jonestown event.
• 22:02
  So you see, Haight Ashbury is almost just as important as
• 22:05
  Laurel Canyon, which is going to come down later in the story.
• 22:08
  Well, I mean absolutely. Haight Ashbury is essentially
• 22:11
  where everything started. It's the epicentre.
• 22:12
  It's where this sort of like the well, I can't remember which
• 22:15
  bloody call did the sort of new age movement.
• 22:17
  The CIA is all over that basically.
• 22:19
  I forget the exact terminology for it, but all this sort of
• 22:22
  like, you know, free your mind sort of sit there and meditate
• 22:25
  and stuff like that. And and that you've got people
• 22:27
  like Jolly W down there who are studying the hippie in their
• 22:30
  natural environment. And then you know all the people
• 22:33
  who are manufacturing the LSD like Owsley, Stanley and stuff
• 22:35
  like that. I've got intimate connections to
• 22:37
  the CEO. Timothy Leary Yeah, all these
• 22:39
  people. Brotherhood of eternal love and
• 22:41
  all of these people. Eternal love.
• 22:44
  Yeah. They're essentially on record
• 22:45
  saying that these are CIA just CIA operatives or part CIA
• 22:48
  operations. So yeah there was a huge amount
• 22:51
  going off however and and people might know forces you know that
• 22:54
  like MK Ultra and my control is my other sort of pet like
• 22:57
  passion basically that I'm really interested in.
• 23:00
  But. And I thought for a long time
• 23:02
  that the Charles Manson case was a my control slash satanic
• 23:06
  Oracle cults type situation connected to the Church of
• 23:10
  Prostitution's final judgment and basically had CIA's
• 23:14
  fingertips all over it. And until I started researching
• 23:17
  the book that's what I thought. And he wasn't until I was
• 23:20
  halfway through writing the book that I realized oh that's not it
• 23:22
  at all. And I don't think that Charles
• 23:25
  Manson was under any type of mind control.
• 23:26
  I don't think that Charles Manson's followers were under
• 23:29
  any type of mind control. I don't think they were part of
• 23:31
  MK Ultra or Project Chaos or anything like that.
• 23:34
  I don't think that they were there to demonize the hippies.
• 23:37
  I think that he was just a drug dealer that had connections to
• 23:40
  certain organized crime. And but then after the fact once
• 23:44
  the murders have been committed, the idea that that this was sort
• 23:49
  of indicative of hippies and that that this that Charles
• 23:51
  Manson was was beloved by the hippies actually came from the
• 23:55
  Weather Underground. And Bernadine Van Doren, who
• 23:58
  basically said she she turned it into a political act when it was
• 24:02
  nothing but a drug murder. Essentially she was the person
• 24:05
  that turned it into a sort of politicized thing and.
• 24:07
  OK. So I don't mean to interrupt
• 24:11
  you. OK.
• 24:13
  Yeah. Bernadine Van Doren, who's the
• 24:15
  head of the Weather Underground, which are kind of what you would
• 24:19
  call maybe Antifa today if I had to try to regulate it or.
• 24:24
  And and because I've talked about Susan Rosenberg who was
• 24:26
  head of, you know, the the Weather Underground back then,
• 24:28
  who's also now leading the BLM here in the United States.
• 24:31
  So you have a lot of these influences and it really coming
• 24:34
  from the Bay Area, Haight, Ashbury, it could be a case of
• 24:38
  communist infiltrating intelligence agencies and vice
• 24:41
  versa. There's so much infiltration,
• 24:43
  you know, personally I think think it was the other way
• 24:45
  around because the two things that the the Weather Underground
• 24:48
  actually did was they they smeared the Black Panthers who
• 24:52
  wanted absolutely nothing to do with them and they destroying
• 24:55
  and they destroyed the SDS, you know the student, the student
• 24:58
  movement which the Weather Underground came out.
• 25:04
  I've never heard that before. So it's almost like the
• 25:00
  infiltrated and neutralized those two things or attempted to
• 25:03
  nuclear. Interesting.
• 25:06
  And and and also there's an influence with the District
• 25:08
  Attorney as well. I remember the DA getting
• 25:10
  involved. Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:13
  Yeah. Who's connected to The Beach
• 25:15
  Boys here? So there's a big connection.
• 25:17
  We're about to find out. And yeah, go ahead, Neil.
• 25:21
  Well, Charlie's bouting around with these.
• 25:22
  I think at this point he's got three girls in a van and he's
• 25:25
  rolling around with them, and sometimes Dean's following him
• 25:29
  and sometimes other people are following him.
• 25:31
  But at some point you upgrade to a bigger van and basically he
• 25:35
  gets a couple of really big breaks, so to speak.
• 25:38
  The 1st is he gets introduced to Guy Stamberg of Universal
• 25:41
  Studios, right? And he's basically offered parts
• 25:44
  in films and helping out with writing a screenplay about Jesus
• 25:49
  coming back to earth and stuff like that.
• 25:50
  And he's getting incredible access to people.
• 25:52
  And it's suggested at this point these certain letters that
• 25:55
  Charlie wrote later in his career that suggested that he
• 25:57
  had sexual liaisons with a couple of people that people
• 26:01
  might be aware of. The first one, whose name
• 26:03
  escapes me, was the the actor. He was the lead in the TV series
• 26:08
  Wild Wild West, but apparently a bit of a heartthrob in his day.
• 26:11
  And apparently him and Charlie had a bit of a sexual tryst.
• 26:14
  And also he suggested that another person he might have
• 26:17
  slept with at this time was none other than the Colombo actor
• 26:20
  Peter Falk. Whether he's Wait a second.
• 26:25
  You're telling me he had a choice with Charles Gardner from
• 26:28
  Wild Wild West and Peter Falk. Yeah, Yeah.
• 26:32
  Well, this is basically what was it?
• 26:34
  That doesn't sound right. The that doesn't quite sound
• 26:40
  right for the Wild Wild West TV guy.
• 26:42
  I can't have his name. But anyway, he was the he was
• 26:44
  the Hanson Young one from it, basically.
• 26:46
  Okay kind of was. It Wild Wild West or Bonanza or
• 26:50
  Hawaii 5 O Robert's combat who played Captain James, something
• 26:54
  that was a captain. James Gardner.
• 26:56
  Maybe it's James Gardner. When he was Robert Conrad.
• 26:58
  Was was the person, was the actor that you've had?
• 27:00
  I don't know what else. Oh, OK You're thinking you're
• 27:02
  thinking a Gunsmoke, probably. I think it's Gunsmoke Okay.
• 27:06
  But the point being that basically you've got access to
• 27:08
  these sort of celebrities and also sort of into sort of like
• 27:11
  kind of really impressive jobs as well.
• 27:15
  Like, you know, like he's knocking about with celebrities
• 27:17
  now. There's a later suggestion that
• 27:19
  he's basically there because he's also selling drugs and he
• 27:22
  happens to have all these girls around and stuff like that as
• 27:24
  well. So because these people like
• 27:27
  later in the stories of Cary Grant.
• 27:29
  So Cary Grant was supposed to be at the Tay house to buy LSD but
• 27:32
  was in the garden with a rent boy, heard the screams of people
• 27:35
  being murdered inside and so ran off.
• 27:37
  And this is, this is according to to Cary Grant's manager, one
• 27:41
  of the people that Patty Charlie was selling coke to whenever he
• 27:45
  had sort of large quantities of coke on him was Dean Martin
• 27:50
  apparently of the Rat Pack fame. And that's quite interesting
• 27:53
  site. Obviously the Rat Pack and the
• 27:54
  Camelot crowd, Sinatra and all that lot basically they're sort
• 27:58
  of quasi connected in as much especially they were very in
• 28:01
  with the mafia at the same time. Like Sinatra was basically like
• 28:05
  the Fischetti brothers and and various of that sort of Mafia
• 28:09
  that Sanjay and Connor and the other guy whose name escapes me
• 28:13
  at the minute he was, he was sort of in their pocket
• 28:16
  essentially you know the story of like giving them off and you
• 28:18
  can't refuse. And the Godfather that was about
• 28:22
  Sinatra, essentially. There's a big band leader the
• 28:24
  Sinatra was assigned to. And John, I think was Johnny
• 28:29
  Rosselli. He's also been accused of
• 28:31
  possibly being one of the gunmen in the JFK.
• 28:37
  That that's interesting because Sinatra's also connected to
• 28:40
  Jackie Gleason, who's connected to the Mafia at that time, which
• 28:43
  is reportedly it was Gleason that made the head order on Jim
• 28:48
  Morrison just several years later in the 71 because Morrison
• 28:52
  was said to have. Been paid and asked to perform
• 28:56
  at Gleason's daughter's 16th birthday, Sweet 16, where, if
• 29:01
  you recall, Morrison was in his worst state.
• 29:03
  You know, the big beer drinking. He exposed himself to the
• 29:07
  daughter of Gleason and all her friends.
• 29:09
  That's when Gleason called Sinatra and said take him out.
• 29:11
  Well, I know Sinatra threatened to break Woody Allen's legs for
• 29:17
  beer Farrow at one point as well.
• 29:21
  Yeah yeah. But it also basically this is,
• 29:23
  this is the thing. So like he he divorced her on
• 29:26
  the set of of groceries baby because he didn't like her
• 29:30
  shorthair. So yeah he's a bit of a bit of a
• 29:34
  stranger. He was basically also forced by
• 29:36
  the mafia to transport huge amounts of money to their
• 29:38
  illegal gun to their casinos in them in Cuba for the sort of
• 29:44
  mafia get together conference there just before the overthrow
• 29:46
  of Batista. So yeah, Sinasha was in it all
• 29:49
  to his neck basically. But this is the point, like
• 29:54
  Charlie's making all sorts of friends like as well, like it
• 29:57
  bumps into for example. And this has been confirmed by
• 30:01
  Michael Caine himself. Michael Caine was at a party at
• 30:04
  Elvis Presley's house, and he was introduced to Charles Manson
• 30:06
  by Mamma Cass. So weirdly, Charlie's rubbing
• 30:09
  Childers with all these different people.
• 30:11
  He's friends with the Mamas and Papas knocking around with
• 30:14
  Hendrix. He bumps into Dennis Wilson of
• 30:18
  The Beach Boys and is essentially invited to go and
• 30:21
  live with Dennis Wilson because Dennis Wilson just got divorced
• 30:24
  at this point. Or, yeah, he just got divorced.
• 30:27
  And so he's like basically, I'm a bit depressed.
• 30:29
  And Charles like, Charlie's like, well, I've got loads of
• 30:31
  drugs and loads of young girls that will probably sleep with
• 30:33
  you just at the drop of the hat. Are you interested in any of
• 30:35
  that? And Dennis likes that sort of
• 30:37
  stuff. So, you know, he decided that.
• 30:39
  Yeah, why not. So basically they moved in.
• 30:41
  There is a suggestion as well that basically Dennis and
• 30:43
  Charlie were actually lovers as well.
• 30:46
  Now what's certainly true is that basically is this group got
• 30:48
  sort of bigger and bigger and start incorporating a few more
• 30:51
  sort of girls like Brendan, Sandra good and and Patty and
• 30:56
  people like that. And then lads like Little Paul
• 30:58
  and Bruce Davis and Brooks Boston would would get involved
• 31:02
  and This is why they moved onto the bigger bus and Susan Atkins
• 31:06
  would would would turn up and stuff like that.
• 31:08
  It'd also be people like that were hangers on like Deirdre
• 31:12
  Lansbury and Tom or Tim Lansbury's.
• 31:15
  Other Angela Lansbury's kids were floating around with Manson
• 31:18
  Family. In fact, Angela Lansbury,
• 31:20
  because Deirdre was 14 at the time, I believe she was also
• 31:24
  addicted to heroin. But basically Angela Lansbury
• 31:26
  wrote a letter signed by Angela Lansbury says that she gave full
• 31:30
  permission for her teenage daughter to travel around in a
• 31:32
  bus with Mr. Manson and his ministries.
• 31:35
  Because because the the thing was they were telling people
• 31:37
  that this was like a religious thing basically.
• 31:39
  So, so yeah, lots of different sort of celebs.
• 31:43
  And then when he gets in with Dennis, basically they start
• 31:45
  getting into music and they recorded a lot of music.
• 31:48
  They recorded music at Brian Wilson's home studio.
• 31:51
  Nobody but The Beach Boys recorded Brian Wilson's home
• 31:54
  studio, and apparently there's hours and hours and hours of
• 31:57
  Manson music that was recorded that it was.
• 32:00
  He was signed to Brother Records which is owned by Reprise
• 32:03
  Records, which is something to do with Frank Sinatra.
• 32:06
  And essentially it was starting to look pretty good.
• 32:09
  You know where the concept of like calling the group the
• 32:11
  family came from, that that that actually came from the group
• 32:15
  that they were forming with. What's his name?
• 32:18
  Doris Days. So Terry Melcher.
• 32:20
  Terry Melcher. The first time he saw Charlie
• 32:24
  was at a party that was held at his house in 1967, I believe.
• 32:30
  And whatever it was when it was a year before he officially
• 32:33
  planning to have bumped into because the story was after sort
• 32:36
  of the murder start happening and things like that, everyone
• 32:38
  sort of distanced themselves. And the story was that our child
• 32:40
  was only very tangentially involved with all these people.
• 32:43
  Now what was going off was basically there was this thing
• 32:45
  called The Three Musketeers, so the Golden Penetrators.
• 32:49
  And that was Terry Melcher, somebody else whose name escapes
• 32:54
  me, and Dennis Wilson. And they decided to basically
• 32:57
  try and screw as many girls as they could on the Hollywood
• 33:01
  scene. And they called themselves the
• 33:02
  The Golden Penetrators. And so there was this ongoing
• 33:05
  party at Maracas's house, Terry Melch's house or Dennis's house.
• 33:08
  Like, at some point there'd be a party at any one of those three.
• 33:11
  You could turn up anytime. And if there's nothing happening
• 33:13
  at one of them, you'd go to the others.
• 33:14
  And at one of these parties, Charlie was playing guitar.
• 33:18
  And how do we know this? Well, we know this because in
• 33:22
  Dina Martin, who's Dean Martin's daughter, who was friends with
• 33:24
  Brenda, who ended up being sort of one of Charlie's most loyal
• 33:27
  followers, she talked about party that was held at CLO Drive
• 33:31
  when Terry Melchi lived there, that Charlie played Guitarra and
• 33:35
  Dina Martin ended up complaining about the the, the hot smoke in
• 33:39
  the air. And the girls teased her and so
• 33:41
  she left and that was the last time she had anything to do with
• 33:43
  them. But also the party was Nancy
• 33:45
  Sinatra and Jane Fonda. So you know, again, there's a
• 33:49
  lot of these people basically floating around that are very,
• 33:52
  very sort of influential. And Charles, the master family
• 33:56
  sort of moved around to various places at one point, basically
• 33:59
  the spiral staircase, at one point a building that's called
• 34:01
  the Yellow Submarine. And then eventually they move
• 34:04
  out to this X Movie ranch called the Spawn Ranch and it's run by
• 34:08
  a sort of old blind black called George Spawn.
• 34:11
  And basically they just sort of put squeaky on him and said like
• 34:14
  do anything and everything for this lad.
• 34:16
  And then they actually lived at the branch.
• 34:18
  Now, the common sort of retelling of this is that
• 34:22
  basically they were just there and took advantage of this by
• 34:24
  This isn't true. They they dressed like ranch
• 34:27
  hands. They worked.
• 34:28
  They basically turned the ranch around.
• 34:29
  They were. This is the strange thing about
• 34:31
  Charles Manson. Although he was a drug dealer
• 34:32
  and the pimp and involved with some incredibly shaking stuff
• 34:36
  that led to people being murdered, he was probably the
• 34:38
  only person that gave some of these kids a fair whack.
• 34:41
  Because the sort of one thing that was going that was common
• 34:43
  throughout the stories of the back stories of all these these
• 34:46
  kids, particularly the girls, is that they've been sort of kicked
• 34:48
  out by the parents or like they're ignored by the parents.
• 34:51
  Like Squeaky tells a horrific story that basically one day a
• 34:53
  dad just decided to just not not acknowledge her existence
• 34:56
  anymore and just said stop talking to her and stopped by
• 34:59
  interacting with her at all, basically.
• 35:00
  And by and these were bright kids.
• 35:02
  A lot of these like like Squeaky's dad was like a rocket
• 35:04
  scientist and stuff like that and but there was there was this
• 35:07
  this was the stories all along the the the way now you could
• 35:10
  make the argument and it's a fair argument that well you know
• 35:15
  he's just picking on or he's he's targeting vulnerable or
• 35:19
  damaged people isn't he? He's going for that sort of
• 35:21
  person that he can't provide that sort of for and this.
• 35:25
  There's probably an element of truth to that, but it but at the
• 35:27
  same time, he was literally the only person that ever was was
• 35:30
  ever nice to any of these people, which is why so many
• 35:32
  people sort of followed him with such, you know, diligence
• 35:35
  actually. Right.
• 35:37
  And he was probably making a great profit over there in a
• 35:42
  between Haight, Ashbury and Laurel Canyon.
• 35:45
  Plus he probably has mules coming up and down the southern
• 35:48
  border over there in California. He's making a name for himself.
• 35:51
  He has the influence. He probably has some good tunes.
• 35:54
  Now he's getting credentials because she's hanging out with
• 35:57
  Dennis Wilson. Who?
• 36:00
  Maybe people don't know, but there was three brothers in The
• 36:02
  Beach Boys. You had Brian Wilson, who was
• 36:04
  the the, the oldest and the genius.
• 36:06
  You had. You had Carl Wilson who, who who
• 36:10
  played guitar, did the vocals. Then you had Dennis Wilson, who
• 36:12
  was the drummer, who was the wild man.
• 36:16
  So wild they actually wound up I I don't know if he married or
• 36:18
  dated Mike Love's daughter later on in the 70s which is that's
• 36:24
  their cousin. That's their cousin which caused
• 36:26
  a riff. So.
• 36:28
  But that was what the the the the climate the environment was
• 36:32
  in Hollywood Hills at that time in the lead up to 1968.
• 36:36
  The who's who you had Carrie Fisher.
• 36:38
  Excuse me, Cary Grant. Probably Carrie Fisher too but
• 36:40
  Cary Grant who was you know who who was doing the Liberace thing
• 36:44
  and Rock Hudson with with you know little young male escorts
• 36:48
  swimming in the Hollywood Hills pool.
• 36:51
  And so this was the really the the perfect formula for.
• 36:56
  What we're about to hear and not to mention Jack Nicholson who
• 36:59
  was the king of the Playboy Mansion with Warren Beatty which
• 37:03
  we know has underground tunnels, they had their own access.
• 37:06
  So this was the environment. So pick it up from there now if
• 37:10
  you would where were we? So, so basically, yes, it's
• 37:13
  going right for them and basically things started going
• 37:16
  wrong really when two people got involved, but probably both
• 37:19
  late, but it's not really his fault.
• 37:21
  And Tex Watson. And Tex Watson is always sort of
• 37:26
  builders like like Charlie's right hand man or Lieutenant or
• 37:29
  whatever. And like that's just not the way
• 37:33
  that he was really. Basically Tex was already a drug
• 37:37
  dealer in Hollywood and he got ripped off by his girlfriend.
• 37:41
  And so basically he come back and begged to stay at the
• 37:44
  outskirts of the ranch and stuff like this, like where did it all
• 37:49
  start to go wrong? It started to go wrong really
• 37:51
  with with text. What happened was text decided
• 37:55
  that he wanted to rip off a boat called Bernard Crow or lots of
• 37:58
  popper. He was a big black guy who some
• 38:02
  people mistakenly thought was a Black Panther that was selling
• 38:05
  drugs in around the LA area. And So what he did was he said,
• 38:09
  right, give us the weed, lots of popper.
• 38:11
  I'll nip out to the car and get the money and he gets out to the
• 38:14
  car and he just bogged it off. But what he did was he left his
• 38:17
  ex-girlfriend there as collateral and he didn't really
• 38:19
  care because his ex-girlfriend had ripped him off with some
• 38:22
  money basically. Now Texas, real name is Charles.
• 38:25
  So somehow lots of popper gets into, he said that he's staying
• 38:28
  at the ranch and he phones up and says, I want to speak to
• 38:30
  Charles. Charles has got my money.
• 38:32
  And so obviously it's passed to Charlie and Charlie's like,
• 38:34
  who's this? What's going off?
• 38:36
  There's a girl there that's been.
• 38:37
  Right. OK, fair enough.
• 38:39
  So they get this gun, which is it's a 22 bunt line, right.
• 38:43
  And it's this. This gun has got really weird
• 38:45
  sort of history. Basically, it used to belong to
• 38:47
  none other than President Ronald Reagan.
• 38:50
  Now now what happened with this gun was it was a prop when
• 38:55
  Reagan was an actor and the cowboy films and it was given to
• 38:58
  his stuntman, Randy star. Randy Star then basically went
• 39:01
  to work at Spa Ranch and he gave the gun to Charlie and it's a
• 39:06
  sort of two, two, but it's basically a prop.
• 39:08
  It's not a real gun. And he takes that and a bayonet
• 39:12
  and he tries desperately to get those people to come with him.
• 39:15
  And at this point, there's a couple of bikers on the branch
• 39:17
  as well. There's a boy called Danny
• 39:18
  Dicarlo who's a straight Satan and he's got real some serious
• 39:22
  weapons and stuff like that there and nobody will go with
• 39:25
  Charlie except for the person called TJ the Terrible.
• 39:28
  Now TJ the Terrible. The reason he was called TJ the
• 39:30
  Terrible was because he was so soft and nice.
• 39:32
  It's like it's like an ironic nickname.
• 39:34
  So although the concept is that Charlie is this sort of cult
• 39:37
  leader and stuff, nobody will go with him.
• 39:41
  So what sort of a cult leader can't get anyone to help him
• 39:44
  out? Anyway, he turns up and it just
• 39:47
  all happens, and he accidentally ends up shooting lots of Popper
• 39:49
  in his stomach and he thinks that he's killed them.
• 39:52
  So they go back to the ranch and they start to get more bikers
• 39:56
  and more weapons involved. And the other thing that they're
• 39:58
  doing is they're stealing Volks, Wagons and Porsches and they're
• 40:01
  stripping them down and they're turning them into Doom buggies
• 40:05
  to to sell parts, but also so that they've got like all these
• 40:08
  these Armies of Doom buggies. And this is something that
• 40:09
  nobody else has really ever speculated on but.
• 40:12
  What's the Doom boogie really good for?
• 40:14
  Really good for going over the desert terrain, isn't it?
• 40:16
  Like what? What's just South of LA?
• 40:19
  If you sort of go over the desert, it's Mexico, isn't it?
• 40:22
  What's in Mexico? A shit ton of drugs.
• 40:24
  So I always speculated that the reason that they were making
• 40:27
  people so many Doom boogies was that they were doing trips
• 40:31
  across the border to pick stuff up.
• 40:32
  Because Doom boogies can go with places where cop cars just can't
• 40:35
  go, basically. So I mean that's it's.
• 40:38
  That's true. I would also I would also equate
• 40:43
  you know the power of influence in the amount of it that Charles
• 40:45
  Manson had is probably you know we talked about this before is
• 40:49
  his you know he was selling to the stars.
• 40:52
  He probably had enough dirt on a listers that.
• 40:56
  They would let him in their parties.
• 40:57
  They would say here, hang out with my daughter, because if you
• 40:59
  would have said that Dean Martin's mind cocaine, you know,
• 41:02
  back in 1967, nobody would have believed.
• 41:03
  You're like what? Well, exactly he said that he
• 41:07
  sort of filmed with. Now here's the thing, it looks
• 41:09
  like the Manson Family with the help of possibly people from
• 41:15
  Universal or whatever, possibly the Mafia, possibly even Dennis
• 41:18
  Wilson and stuff like that. Because it just transpires that
• 41:21
  well, I forget his name at the minute, but the the The Beach
• 41:23
  Boys mafia just so happened to be the manager, just so happened
• 41:26
  to be in the mafia as well. So and his his name will come
• 41:30
  back to me. But at one point Charlie and him
• 41:32
  get into a sort of shouting match over Dennis essentially.
• 41:35
  But it looks like the Manson family were making porno films
• 41:37
  as well, basically because and again you can't do that without
• 41:41
  a huge amount of Hollywood equipment essentially.
• 41:43
  And this seems to be tied to the celebrity sex films that were
• 41:48
  found at the Tate house, including there was a video of
• 41:51
  Yul Brynner and Peter Sellers in a homosexual tryst.
• 41:55
  There was Warren Beatty and Mamma Cass.
• 41:58
  There was Sharon with a young black man, which would have been
• 42:02
  quite sort of taboo at the time. And there were various other
• 42:06
  ones basically. But again, it would appear that
• 42:09
  there was a lot of drugs and free for all sex involving sort
• 42:12
  of homosexual sex and. Incredible, incredible.
• 42:16
  And I think it was even mentioned that he was selling to
• 42:18
  The Beatles. Secretly, I don't know about
• 42:22
  that. Lennon McCartney got their first
• 42:24
  acid trip or hands on it. Or George Harrison did, and he's
• 42:28
  selling to the stars. Yeah, I don't know about that
• 42:33
  particularly, but it's plausible.
• 42:35
  I mean, again, he's knocking around.
• 42:37
  He claims to sort of been friends with Elvis.
• 42:39
  He certainly was at Elvis's house and knocking around with
• 42:43
  some say very, very sort of high level people.
• 42:47
  Now the problem is essentially that well two things happen.
• 42:49
  One, people find out that lots of pup has been shot and so they
• 42:53
  they start to sort of back off on on projects.
• 42:55
  So that's where this, that's where the the name came from.
• 42:58
  The Family. The Family was the name of the
• 42:59
  group. It was going to be Charlie
• 43:01
  Manson and the Family Jams and that was the group project that
• 43:04
  Terry Melcher and various people that were connected to The Beach
• 43:08
  Boys were were trying to sort of arrange with with Charlie.
• 43:11
  So that's where the concept of the Family comes from,
• 43:13
  basically. So they they start because
• 43:15
  they're worried about basically everybody knows that they've
• 43:17
  killed lots of popper and they mistakenly think that lots of
• 43:20
  Popper is, well, A, he's not dead, so so they're mistaken
• 43:23
  about that. And B, they think he's a Black
• 43:25
  Panther, so they think they're going to get a load of sort of
• 43:26
  shit coming down on them. And so this sort of promotes 2
• 43:30
  things. One, they get loads and loads of
• 43:32
  bikers at the ranch, loads of straight Satans, and there's
• 43:35
  machine guns at the ranch and it's starting to get very sort
• 43:39
  of, you know, outlawish down there.
• 43:42
  And then the second thing is that basically this is kind of
• 43:44
  where the concept of Helter skelter comes from.
• 43:47
  Now I'll say straight off the bat, this is not true.
• 43:50
  This is this. The, the prosecution and Vince
• 43:53
  of Bugliosi maintained that the reason that Charlie had got his
• 43:55
  followers, his cult followers, to kill these rich white people
• 43:59
  on the takes and the Bianca's was that basically he wanted to
• 44:03
  start a race war. Now the idea was that they were
• 44:06
  going to go into the desert and find this underground cavern and
• 44:09
  basically they were going to live there until they were
• 44:12
  their, their number was 144,000, at which point they'd come back
• 44:15
  out. The race would have been won by
• 44:17
  the black people and they'll have killed all the white
• 44:19
  people, but they weren't allowed to run society.
• 44:21
  So they'll be really happy when Charlie turns up because
• 44:23
  basically he'll be able to to run society for them.
• 44:27
  And that's the concept of Health Skelter.
• 44:29
  There's several things that are wrong with it, right?
• 44:31
  One, why did they stop after just a couple of murders?
• 44:34
  Because evidently, health Skelter hadn't started.
• 44:37
  Why did they start health skills before they found the
• 44:40
  underground cavern? Because they evidently hadn't
• 44:42
  found the underground cavern. Like, why?
• 44:45
  If they really, really wanted to blame both of these crimes on
• 44:48
  black people rather than the vague sort of clues of a Black
• 44:52
  Panther and some watermelon rinds in the in the sink, why
• 44:55
  not something really, really overt like an Afro comb or a
• 44:59
  Black Panther manual? Or alternatively, you could just
• 45:02
  phone up the police ago. You'll never know what you'll
• 45:04
  never guess what I've seen 2 black guys running away from the
• 45:07
  tape house like. Do you know what I mean?
• 45:09
  These lots of ways. Right.
• 45:12
  You would think you would think there would be more fingerprints
• 45:14
  and also to know just for people listening.
• 45:17
  Helter Skelter was also a Beatles song written by Paul
• 45:20
  McCartney in 1968 for The White Album.
• 45:23
  Yeah, so there's a lot of connotation to that incredible
• 45:26
  song, which I found interesting. Paul McCartney.
• 45:29
  Sir Paul McCartney didn't really ever play live until I believe
• 45:33
  Charles Manson died. A number of years ago, yeah.
• 45:36
  He has played at Glastonbury. I'm sure we saw him do it at
• 45:40
  Glastonbury like a couple years ago.
• 45:41
  But it's the thing. Do you know how to?
• 45:42
  Skelton was in reality, it was a gambling club at Spa Ranch.
• 45:48
  Like, have you ever seen that door that says How to Skelter
• 45:50
  123-4567. All good children go to heaven
• 45:52
  right on it. That's the door to the gambling
• 45:56
  club that Charlie had started an illegal gambling club on the
• 45:59
  grounds of Spa Ranch and he called it Helter Skelter.
• 46:02
  We know this because the police shut it down and find George
• 46:05
  Spahn. So where did this concept of how
• 46:07
  to scale to being like a sort of race war come from?
• 46:09
  Where? Where does all the sort of
• 46:11
  paraphernalia of cults, including this detail of
• 46:14
  crucifixion rituals and stuff like that?
• 46:16
  It caused him a guy who was a box Canyon.
• 46:18
  He was called Christian Evenner. And Christian Evenner was a
• 46:22
  genuine court leader that basically stole a load of women
• 46:25
  off the sort of local men, had a sex call, made people take lots
• 46:29
  of acid, and pretended to be Jesus including and up to
• 46:32
  crucifying himself and letting his followers sort of worship
• 46:35
  him. And he was a cool leader for
• 46:37
  many years in Box Canyon until the husband of one of these
• 46:40
  wives turned up and decided to blow them all with dynamite.
• 46:43
  So what the prosecution did was they basically got this concept
• 46:47
  and Christian event because it was a doomsday call.
• 46:49
  He said the same thing. He said that the whites and
• 46:51
  blacks were going to have a race war, but that him and his
• 46:53
  followers would be safe as they'd go to the mountains and
• 46:56
  wait until their followers were 144,000.
• 46:58
  They come back and take their places to rifle rules of the
• 47:00
  planet. But so basically what Vincent
• 47:02
  Brugliosi and the prosecution did was they took a book that
• 47:05
  Paul Watkins had given them, which was the Life and Times of
• 47:08
  Christian event there, got all the wacky bits out that
• 47:10
  Christian event there did and just said that Charlie did them.
• 47:13
  This is straightforward as that. So the whole Charles Manson is a
• 47:16
  court leader. Charles Manson wanted to help to
• 47:18
  scale to Charles Manson's race war.
• 47:20
  All of that is completely made-up.
• 47:22
  It was a book called Christian Event that they did it.
• 47:25
  Now wasn't in that book, weren't they?
• 47:28
  Didn't they have the concept and the term?
• 47:29
  The family, they may well have done.
• 47:32
  There's several groups that actually called themselves The
• 47:34
  Family right that were floating around at the time.
• 47:38
  There is a best day in which Charlie's spoken to and various
• 47:43
  members of the group have spoken to, and they describe themselves
• 47:46
  as a family, but they don't describe themselves as the
• 47:49
  family. So this was actually just, this
• 47:52
  was put onto them by Ed Sanders, no relation, who wrote the book
• 47:55
  The Family. Now here's an interesting thing,
• 47:57
  because Ed Sanders was also the person that suggested that the
• 48:01
  connection to the process Church of final judgment and that the
• 48:03
  murders were in some way as satanic ritual and that the
• 48:06
  process church were floating around it.
• 48:08
  The Mansons made snuff films and all sorts of stuff like that.
• 48:11
  And interestingly, like, do you know where he where they where
• 48:14
  he got that information from, the information that the child
• 48:17
  was actually connected to a the process church, which was a
• 48:20
  satanic cause it wasn't but that.
• 48:22
  But you'll never guess where Sanders got that information
• 48:25
  from. He got it from the prosecution.
• 48:27
  He got it from Vincent Bugliosi. He admitted this.
• 48:30
  So why the prosecution not bringing that up in court?
• 48:33
  I'll tell you why. Because he's libelous and what
• 48:36
  happened when Ed Sanders put the the the family book out was the
• 48:40
  Church of the the prostitution final tuition went hang on we're
• 48:43
  not having that and sued him so so basically and successfully
• 48:47
  sued him and So what So what what's gone off there.
• 48:51
  Well, First off the whole point of sort of selling the murders
• 48:54
  as a as a cool thing. If the prosecution could see
• 48:57
  into the underground press the idea that basically there's a
• 49:00
  satanic element or a cult element or an element that is
• 49:02
  being covered up is connected to this known group.
• 49:05
  They're basically, you've already accepted that there's a
• 49:06
  cult aspect of it like because if you're satanic cult, you're
• 49:09
  already past cults. Now they needed to sell it as a
• 49:13
  cult to disguise the fact and put all the Christian event and
• 49:15
  nonsense on it, To disguise the fact that it was actually just a
• 49:17
  grubby little drug murder. And the reason that that the
• 49:21
  process Church of Final Judgment was involved with this was due
• 49:25
  to the Church of Scientology and the British tabloids.
• 49:27
  Because what happened was, when these murders happened, it
• 49:31
  became clear that Bruce Davis and Charlie were in ours to
• 49:35
  Scientology. And so the Mirror newspaper, I
• 49:38
  believe it was in the UK, went to the headquarters for
• 49:41
  Scientology when. So this murderer in the UK, he's
• 49:45
  a Scientologist, isn't he? Now just prior to this, the
• 49:48
  process Church of Final Judgment was an offshoot break off group
• 49:52
  from the Church of Scientology. Now I don't know if you noticed
• 49:54
  about Church of Scientology, but if you get on that wrong side,
• 49:56
  you know it's very, very, very difficult to get back on that
• 49:58
  good side and they'll they'll lately a Suppressive person and
• 50:02
  try and destroy you sometimes. And that's what they were trying
• 50:04
  to do with the process Church of Final Judgment.
• 50:06
  Like the newspapers went to Scientology when.
• 50:09
  So Charles Manson's Scientology say that's interesting.
• 50:12
  And they went no, no, he's not a Scientologist.
• 50:14
  He's involved with this offshoot group called the Process Church
• 50:16
  of Final Judgment. And you know what's even more
• 50:18
  interesting? That group is a Satanic cult.
• 50:21
  Now none of that's true, but this is all real good grist for
• 50:25
  the mill for sort of building the idea that basically there's
• 50:28
  some sort of weird Satanic cult type stuff going off, basically.
• 50:32
  So what actually happened with the murders?
• 50:35
  It's a little bit complicated. But what happened was Bobby
• 50:38
  Bosolet had been to his friend Gary Hindman, and he bought a
• 50:43
  grand's worth of mescaline, which he sold to the Straight
• 50:45
  Satans, this really scary biker group.
• 50:48
  And this biker group turned up and said these drugs are bad.
• 50:51
  We want our money back. And Bobby's like, well, OK, can
• 50:54
  I have the drugs back? And they said no.
• 50:56
  And he's like, well, that put me in a bit of a difficult
• 50:59
  situation, He says. We don't care what you do.
• 51:01
  If you don't do it, we're going to kill you.
• 51:03
  And there's a blunt called Danny de Carlo who gives him a gun and
• 51:05
  says go over to Gary Hindman and either get the drugs to the
• 51:08
  money or kill Gary Hindman. And later Danny de Carlo became
• 51:12
  one of the sort of main prosecution witnesses and
• 51:15
  claimed that the whole health to skeletal thing was real, when in
• 51:17
  actual fact he probably should have been charged for accessory
• 51:20
  to murder or responsibility for the murder of Gary Hindman.
• 51:22
  Anyway, So they go over to to Gary's house and Gary's like, I
• 51:27
  ain't got the money. Like, I haven't got the drugs.
• 51:29
  Like, this is ridiculous. He can't, can't do this.
• 51:31
  They get a bit of a tussle and the gun goes off and Mary, who's
• 51:34
  over there with them, gets a bit scared.
• 51:36
  She phones around. She tells Charlie, look, it's
• 51:38
  all kicking off over here. A gun's just been fired.
• 51:40
  And so Charlie races over there in the interim.
• 51:44
  Bobby and Gary go, you know, this is stupid with friends, why
• 51:46
  we fight about this. And they figure it out that
• 51:49
  basically if you take my Volkswagen, you can sell it.
• 51:51
  And then basically we're all good, cool, everyone's happy.
• 51:54
  And it's just about to sort of finish at this point, knock on
• 51:57
  the door. Gary opens it and Charlie's
• 52:00
  there with a sword. And he smacks Gary in the face
• 52:02
  and cuts his ear and cuts his face because he's under the
• 52:04
  impression that there's still a gun fight going off and that
• 52:06
  he's got to save all these people.
• 52:07
  And he says, you see, that's how he'd be a man.
• 52:10
  And then he looks around, realizes, Oh no, I've made
• 52:12
  terrible mistake. They discuss it.
• 52:15
  It gets Gary Hinman's car keys and starts off with partial
• 52:19
  payment. Now it's all right.
• 52:20
  Everyone's quite happy. But then all of a sudden, Gary
• 52:22
  Hinman's like, you know what? I'm not that chuffed.
• 52:24
  I've just been been stabbed in the face, essentially.
• 52:26
  And they do try and stitch you up with dental floss, but he's
• 52:28
  still not particularly happy and he wants to go to the hospital
• 52:31
  and they're a bit panicked by this.
• 52:32
  And so he says, well, he said, you know what, I'm going to
• 52:34
  cops. I don't care.
• 52:35
  I don't care about snitching. I'm going to snitch on Charlie.
• 52:37
  I'm sick of this. And I can't believe I got
• 52:39
  stabbed. So he phoned.
• 52:41
  So Bobby phones Charlie operation, says what should I
• 52:45
  do? And Charlie doesn't really give
• 52:46
  him any advice at all. He says, well, you know, do what
• 52:48
  you feel, you know what you need to do.
• 52:50
  And he interprets that as being told to to kill Gary Hindman.
• 52:53
  And so he does. He goes and established to death
• 52:56
  and then leaves. And he makes us a really half
• 52:59
  hearted attempt at making it look like there's a bloody paw
• 53:02
  print and he puts Panther Power or something like that in Blood
• 53:05
  on the Walls to try and sort of give the impression that this is
• 53:08
  a Black Panther murder. Anyway, Bobby's really sort of
• 53:12
  traumatized by this. And by this time as well, sort
• 53:16
  of all the music sort of cooled off because of the lots of
• 53:18
  popper thing and stuff like that.
• 53:20
  And basically a couple of days later, Bobby gets arrested.
• 53:24
  In the meantime, Charlie's actually started off to San
• 53:26
  Diego with this young Jewish girl called Stephanie Schramm,
• 53:29
  and he's basically talking about leaving everybody and starting
• 53:31
  off with her forever. But he goes back to collects his
• 53:34
  stuff. When he gets back, he finds out
• 53:36
  that Bobby's been arrested and the girls kind of sort of try
• 53:39
  and persuade him to stay and help them.
• 53:42
  And so he goes, right, I'm sick of this, Tex.
• 53:44
  You know, you owe me a favor because because I sorted out
• 53:47
  that thing with lots of popper. I owe Bobby a favor because I
• 53:50
  basically caused this problem with Gary Hinman.
• 53:52
  You know what's easier? You owe Bobby a favor.
• 53:55
  Brilliant. Sorted.
• 53:56
  So Tex decides that he needs to go and burglarize or rob
• 54:00
  somebody to get some money to pay for a lawyer for Bobby.
• 54:02
  That's the only thing that they can think to do now.
• 54:05
  A couple of weeks prior to this, a girl called Linda Kasabian had
• 54:07
  turned up after stealing 400 tabs of acid from her ex-husband
• 54:11
  and all his money. She basically turns up with her
• 54:13
  daughter and immediately gets in with Tex.
• 54:15
  Tex is is still trying to be a drug dealer in Hollywood and
• 54:18
  he's recently bought from Jay Sebring and it's it's like a
• 54:25
  cocaine dealer and him and Fukowski.
• 54:29
  Voytech Fukowski. Who's living at Rome Polanski's
• 54:32
  house which which which Chante is with Gibby Folger who's
• 54:35
  Voytech's girlfriend. They're trying to get into J
• 54:38
  Sebring is the coke dealer for for like all of Hollywood when
• 54:42
  Charlie's not got best stuff. So they're kind of sort of
• 54:44
  rivals. And he also gets LSD in and
• 54:47
  Voytech's got all this this new drug which is basically like
• 54:49
  Molly which is like MD and MDA is called and apparently he
• 54:53
  sells a grams worth it or I've heard up to 4 grams worth it to
• 54:56
  Tex and Linda Kasabian and it turns out it's crap.
• 55:00
  And so This is why Texas decided right.
• 55:02
  I know that they've got drugs there let's go over and we're
• 55:05
  going to rob them and that will give us enough money to pay for
• 55:07
  Bobby's thing because they ripped him off.
• 55:09
  Now in the meantime basically because this this drugs are bad
• 55:13
  that the drug dealer himself is a chap called Bobby Doyle who
• 55:16
  was actually the boyfriend that sometime boyfriend of Mamma Cass
• 55:19
  was lured over to Mamma Cass's house and he was tied to a treat
• 55:21
  by Voytek. Pukowski and Angry raped whilst
• 55:24
  he was filmed in front of the baying crowd and so this is
• 55:27
  again the sort of thing that the voice tech would do to people.
• 55:30
  He's not a pleasant man. Anyway, the turn up and Sharon
• 55:34
  Tate isn't supposed to be there. She's supposed to be at her
• 55:38
  friend Sheila Wells's house. Now here's where another mafia
• 55:42
  connected character comes into it.
• 55:43
  Robert Evans is also involved in the the Bill Mentzer and Roy
• 55:47
  Radian murders and all sorts of shady stuff.
• 55:49
  He apparently was dealing coke for the mafia and connected to
• 55:52
  the mafia. He's a big time producer at in
• 55:55
  in Hollywood and he was supposed to check on Sharon every single
• 55:59
  day because at the time Roan Polanski was in London trying to
• 56:01
  get this film called Dead Dolphin off the ground.
• 56:03
  And for some reason on that day he didn't go around and check on
• 56:08
  Sharon. He just phoned her up and she
• 56:10
  says oh I'm not going to be here tonight, I'm going to be at my
• 56:12
  friend Sheila Wells. Now this is weird because Sandra
• 56:14
  good basically once went up to Sharon Tate's sister in court
• 56:19
  and says we're so sorry we didn't know Sharon was there.
• 56:21
  We phoned ahead and we were told that she wasn't going to be
• 56:24
  there. So it's just one of the the sort
• 56:27
  of strangeness basically. So they turn up and basically
• 56:32
  the the story is that they creep in and they cut the the the
• 56:35
  panel and going through the the sort of back window.
• 56:39
  But they don't do that because this cut blind has never been
• 56:42
  entered into evidence. But in the original police
• 56:44
  report, it says that they walked in through the front door and
• 56:46
  they walked in through the front door because they knew each
• 56:48
  other, because they were all friends.
• 56:49
  They all knew each other. Like they they hung out in the
• 56:52
  same group, they were buying drugs from one another and
• 56:54
  whatnot. And and people like Nicholas
• 56:56
  Shrek, who's done a really great book on Manson suggested it was
• 56:59
  about Joel Ross style that was supposed to drop off all this
• 57:01
  cocaine for JC bring, etc, etc. Anyway, this drug dealer doesn't
• 57:05
  go down very well. Tech switched out the guns and
• 57:08
  knives. And here's another thing, right?
• 57:11
  They didn't really take that many weapons.
• 57:12
  So if they're going to, they went there to kill people.
• 57:14
  They had machine guns on the ranch.
• 57:15
  They could have taken all sorts of stuff, but they didn't.
• 57:18
  They went to flash knife and Robin and then it went wrong.
• 57:20
  Sharon tried to escape and so she got stabbed.
• 57:23
  Jay tried to fight so he got stabbed.
• 57:25
  Then this Stephen Parent outside, he panics and tries to
• 57:28
  drive off Linda Sabian stabs him and then text goes up and
• 57:32
  finishes him off. At this point they leave and
• 57:35
  they go to Jay Sebring's house. They actually don't.
• 57:37
  They go to the back of Jay Sebring's house and this is
• 57:39
  where they get caught by some neighbors and they claim that
• 57:42
  they're just trying to get a drink.
• 57:43
  And then they, they go back to the ranch and all the way they
• 57:46
  dump all their bloody clothing out of the window and throw it
• 57:48
  down a hill. And basically when you get back
• 57:51
  there, they say to Charlie, yeah, we've killed, killed a
• 57:54
  couple of them. And then it's this point that
• 57:56
  they realized that Voytek and Abigail Folger is still alive,
• 58:00
  tied up, but still alive. So Charlie gets into the car
• 58:02
  with them and they all go back and they finish the job off.
• 58:06
  So although Charlie didn't order the murder, didn't actually
• 58:08
  murder anyone himself, he was at the very least witness for two
• 58:12
  of the murders. So it's it's it's complicated
• 58:16
  basically a couple of days later to go to the Lavianca's house.
• 58:19
  Now this is very, very strange because like, there's all sorts
• 58:22
  of theories about this. One of the main sort of points
• 58:23
  is that she had a dress that was put on over the top of her, her
• 58:28
  nightgown and the way that the the cars were parked and the
• 58:32
  gate was left open and stuff like that.
• 58:34
  It looks like she was taken from her home to her boutique shop, a
• 58:39
  dress shop, where the safe was emptied and then she was brought
• 58:43
  back. Now, there's a number of reasons
• 58:44
  that this might have gone ahead. One quite outlandish theory is
• 58:48
  that she was actually the LSD plug.
• 58:50
  She was the person that was supposed to provide LSD, and it
• 58:55
  she didn't do it. So that's why text was taking
• 58:56
  revenge. One is that Lena Labyanka was in
• 58:59
  massive amounts of debt to Frankie Carbo.
• 59:01
  When Charlie's been questioned on this, he said that I was
• 59:04
  there to get a little black book.
• 59:06
  I was there to get a little black book from Leno because he
• 59:08
  owned Frankie Carbo money. And when asked, you know, did
• 59:11
  you actually know Leno, Charlie says no.
• 59:12
  I didn't own Leno, but he knew Frankie and I knew Frankie and
• 59:15
  that was the connection. There's also a suggestion that
• 59:18
  potentially used to do with Rosemary Labianca's estranged
• 59:24
  daughter Susan Struthers, whose boyfriend was also a straight
• 59:28
  Satan and she was friends with Tex.
• 59:31
  They used to live. They used to live in the same
• 59:32
  building basically when prior to that, it's actually the building
• 59:36
  that was used for Melrose Place. You know that TV show that
• 59:40
  that's where Texan, Susan Struthers used to live there,
• 59:43
  basically his neighbors. So the second night of murders,
• 59:47
  that's very, very confusing as to what the actual sort of
• 59:49
  motivation was for that, and it's probably going to be a
• 59:53
  mystery or the very best of just speculation.
• 59:56
  Well, here's what's interesting too, because there's reports of
• 1:00:01
  within hours after the murder, if not the next day of Sharon
• 1:00:05
  Tate is you hear about Warren Beatty.
• 1:00:10
  Some other stars might even been Mama cast for all I know who are
• 1:00:14
  now going to that exact house where a terrible, nasty murder
• 1:00:17
  took place. And doing what exactly?
• 1:00:21
  Well, it was Jack. Nicholson, Robert Evans and Rudy
• 1:00:23
  Outerbelli. Rudy Outerbelli claims to be in
• 1:00:25
  the mafer as well and so and he was the owner of the house.
• 1:00:29
  There's also back with Shara Katami who was selling hash out
• 1:00:32
  of out of the house as well. And so again it's all this Nexus
• 1:00:36
  of drugs and and and gangsters and stuff like that.
• 1:00:40
  Jack Nicholson, Robert Evans and Rudy Outerbelli were allowed
• 1:00:43
  into the house to clean the house up before the police
• 1:00:47
  investigation was completed. And what they were supposed to
• 1:00:50
  do was go in there and if you can believe, wash up the blood
• 1:00:53
  stains. And they didn't because there's
• 1:00:57
  that famous picture of Roman Polanski coming back and Pig is
• 1:00:59
  still written in Sharon Tate's Blood on the door.
• 1:01:02
  That door was later sort of taken by Trent Reznor of Nine
• 1:01:05
  Inch Nails before he. I think he gave it back a couple
• 1:01:08
  of years ago. But but Rudy Outspell used to.
• 1:01:12
  He insisted on never changing the living room carpets because
• 1:01:14
  they were covered in Sharon Tate's blood and it was like a
• 1:01:17
  sort of. Grim macabre sort of Americana
• 1:01:20
  that we showed to house guests throughout the throughout his
• 1:01:23
  life. But but this so so basically
• 1:01:25
  what happens is, is later. So Bobby gets arrested and Bobby
• 1:01:30
  gets arrested and then Susan gets arrested and she starts
• 1:01:34
  blabbing in in prison about the murder of Sharon Taylor.
• 1:01:37
  Because here's the thing I I suspect, if you look at it, the
• 1:01:40
  police knew I'd gone off. Some drug deals gone off here,
• 1:01:44
  it's all gone wrong. We really don't want to touch
• 1:01:46
  it, right? Because they did all sorts.
• 1:01:47
  They lost the murder weapon, right?
• 1:01:49
  They they they didn't make any connection between the crime
• 1:01:52
  scenes. They missed huge amounts of
• 1:01:54
  evidence. They they didn't sort of follow
• 1:01:56
  up on on investigations and stuff like that.
• 1:01:58
  The lad that found the murder weapon, they told him that
• 1:02:00
  they'd lost it until his dad threatened to go to the police,
• 1:02:03
  at which point they miraculously found it again and the whole
• 1:02:06
  sort of story. For for what went down with the
• 1:02:09
  tape Murder came from a confession from Susan Atkins.
• 1:02:13
  And Susan Atkins has basically tried to give this confession to
• 1:02:15
  about five or six people in prison and everyone had just
• 1:02:17
  told her I was sad off. Nobody believes that you're
• 1:02:18
  lying until she just happened. There was two Ronnie Howard and
• 1:02:23
  I can't remember off the top of the other one, but the other one
• 1:02:27
  just so happened to be Francine Archer's girlfriend.
• 1:02:30
  Anyway, so she tells this story to Frank Sinatra's girlfriend,
• 1:02:33
  who alerts this other woman, Ronnie Howard, who's a
• 1:02:35
  prostitute who's got something like 35 aliases.
• 1:02:38
  So not this person that you normally trust.
• 1:02:41
  And they immediately get these two lawyers involved, Paul
• 1:02:44
  Costello and I can't remember the person's name, but again,
• 1:02:48
  these are Italian lawyers that they usually would deal with.
• 1:02:51
  No, it's Paul Caruso and I can't remember, but it's easy to find
• 1:02:55
  out. But basically these usually deal
• 1:02:56
  with the mafia, and for some reason they decide to just.
• 1:02:59
  Stick up for this 18 year old girl that's got absolutely no
• 1:03:02
  money in his face, in the death penalty for murdering a pregnant
• 1:03:05
  star and in in her confession she claims to have licked the
• 1:03:08
  blood, stabbed the belly of of charity, told her you're going
• 1:03:11
  to die bitch, and then literally drank the blood of her, of her
• 1:03:14
  dead victim. None of this turned out to be
• 1:03:16
  true. Text that did everything but but
• 1:03:19
  Susan was doing is to try and be notorious.
• 1:03:21
  Now what was strange was that these two lawyers arranged for
• 1:03:23
  the story to be told in a book that was released and in the Los
• 1:03:27
  Angeles Times It was serialized in the Los Angeles.
• 1:03:29
  These times. So before the trial had even
• 1:03:32
  happened, the majority of Los Angeles had read this story that
• 1:03:35
  basically talked about how to Skelter and Court Leader and how
• 1:03:38
  they were ordered to murder Sharon Tate and everyone else
• 1:03:41
  that was at Terry Melcher's house because Charles Manson,
• 1:03:44
  for two reasons. One, he was jealous of the music
• 1:03:45
  industry and the fact that they'd snubbed him for being
• 1:03:47
  rubbish, which didn't happen. And two, because he wanted to
• 1:03:50
  start Helter Skelter, which we must remember was not the thing
• 1:03:52
  that he was involved in. That was Christian event.
• 1:03:55
  And so The thing is that the whole whole.
• 1:03:58
  Thing looks to be pretty fabricated and poor Leslie Van
• 1:04:01
  Hausen just sort of bring it back right to the beginning.
• 1:04:04
  Who's up for parole? She wasn't even Charlie's girl.
• 1:04:06
  She was Bobby's girl. And she sort of gone along on
• 1:04:09
  the second night not having a clue what what she was there
• 1:04:12
  for. And Tech started stabbing people
• 1:04:15
  and Tech basically told her you'd come in here and you
• 1:04:18
  stabbed this woman. Otherwise, I'm going to kill
• 1:04:20
  you. And by the time Leslie Van
• 1:04:22
  Hausen actually stabbed Rosemary Bianca, she was dead.
• 1:04:27
  And so this poor girl was essentially sort of like bullied
• 1:04:30
  into this crime. So you know if any of the the
• 1:04:33
  the that lot I would sort of do for parole.
• 1:04:37
  Leslie is certainly the one that that was least involved in the
• 1:04:40
  crime and it's probably the most deserving of of the case.
• 1:04:43
  But but here's the thing like so so the inference is that the
• 1:04:46
  whole it's just a drug deal that went wrong.
• 1:04:49
  That was it. That's vaguely connected somehow
• 1:04:50
  to the entertainment industry and.
• 1:04:52
  Mafia drug dealing. But that could have come out in
• 1:04:55
  court. So the point is that Vincent
• 1:04:57
  Bugliosi manufactured the story of Helter Skelter and the story
• 1:05:02
  of a race war and really, really played the cool aspect of it.
• 1:05:07
  And he did it in a number of ways.
• 1:05:08
  He did it by publishing a book. He did it by getting these
• 1:05:11
  lawyers to essentially publish the story in the Los Angeles
• 1:05:14
  Times. And then he also put out stories
• 1:05:18
  like the connection to the Process Church, which wasn't
• 1:05:21
  real, and the fact that they're making snuff films, which also
• 1:05:24
  wasn't true, but they were making prime films.
• 1:05:26
  And he put that out in the alternative press.
• 1:05:28
  So he had a really, really clever sort of marketing sash
• 1:05:31
  propaganda campaign to the point where most people, if you just
• 1:05:34
  say Charles Madison, don't actually know the Internet to
• 1:05:36
  the stories. They just go, oh, that mass
• 1:05:38
  murderer. And it's like, well, even in the
• 1:05:40
  sort of How to Scouter version, he doesn't actually kill anyone
• 1:05:43
  himself. So, so yeah, and it was in the
• 1:05:46
  court case and stuff like that. It's very well.
• 1:05:48
  Let me let me pose a few, just a few notables, Jim, because well,
• 1:05:53
  here's my first question and I wanted to ask you earlier, but
• 1:05:56
  when we talked about the Helter Skelter Casino, which I totally
• 1:05:59
  forgot about it, was that before the song came out or around the
• 1:06:04
  same time of the song? What happened was Charlie didn't
• 1:06:07
  like The Beatles. He thought that they were like.
• 1:06:10
  He says he likes Bing Crosby. And here's the thing, if you
• 1:06:12
  listen to Charles Manson's music, it doesn't sound like The
• 1:06:14
  Beatles at all. So you know, if he's like such a
• 1:06:16
  super fan, that's daylight messages to the music and stuff
• 1:06:19
  like that. It was the Susan Atkins that
• 1:06:21
  liked the The Beatles. Now here's another thing, like
• 1:06:24
  the song Sexy Sadie and stuff like that.
• 1:06:27
  Like Susan Atkins was called Sadie Manglutz and various
• 1:06:30
  people were given different names and stuff and that's often
• 1:06:32
  inferred that that's why, you know, he's altering their
• 1:06:36
  personality. Do you know why Susan Atkins was
• 1:06:38
  given the name Sadie Manglutz? Because she needed a false
• 1:06:42
  identification. Because she was on parole for
• 1:06:44
  pointing a good at a police officer.
• 1:06:46
  That's it. It's as stateful as that.
• 1:06:48
  It's just that she needed a fake ID.
• 1:06:50
  So, so yeah, there there it is. I mean, but in you try to figure
• 1:06:54
  it out, it was the, you know, so the casino probably came
• 1:06:57
  coincidentally I guess as the Helter Skelter song came out.
• 1:07:01
  Well, they took it that it meant confusion.
• 1:07:03
  They thought that's what the song meant.
• 1:07:05
  And so the younger kids, Susan of Paul particularly, they
• 1:07:07
  really liked the White Album. Charlie hated the White Album.
• 1:07:10
  He said he sounded like punk rock to him, but basically they
• 1:07:12
  really liked it. And so in the same way that like
• 1:07:14
  kids use slang and stuff and like nowadays, for example in
• 1:07:17
  England, everyone calls everyone fam or fam alarm.
• 1:07:20
  Do you know silly things like that?
• 1:07:22
  And you know, blood or whatever this, like that's, that's what's
• 1:07:26
  the word, what's the good word that people say that's brilliant
• 1:07:28
  nowadays, like tech heart or shit heart or something like
• 1:07:30
  that. That was the yeah, they said, oh
• 1:07:33
  man, that's so held to skelter. Like, it's like, it's basically
• 1:07:36
  like a wanky way of saying, oh, that's blowing my mind, so
• 1:07:40
  interesting. It's just like basically calling
• 1:07:42
  it the bomb or something like that.
• 1:07:44
  Now, now when we talk about the the DA, right, I have to think
• 1:07:49
  that he's probably trying to provide cover for big stars who
• 1:07:55
  I've known overtime district attorneys are close to, even
• 1:07:57
  police chiefs. You know when you hear Jack
• 1:07:59
  Nicholson and others going back to the Tate house just hours
• 1:08:02
  later? Yeah, probably to retrieve
• 1:08:04
  pornography tapes and other blackmail kind of, you know,
• 1:08:07
  items. And drugs and stuff like that.
• 1:08:09
  And they didn't do a very good job because some of the other
• 1:08:11
  detectives found a load of porno tapes and they also found quite
• 1:08:14
  a lot of drugs like JC wins, car found like a sort of like an
• 1:08:17
  ounce and a half a weed in the bedroom, etc etc.
• 1:08:20
  But they obviously removed something.
• 1:08:22
  So I think they were looking for J Stash basically, but I don't
• 1:08:25
  think it was everything. Tax had already taken it, right?
• 1:08:28
  So you're looking for something. And here is where the eerie part
• 1:08:32
  too is the fact that Roman Polanski, who's if he's not a
• 1:08:35
  Satanist, he sure has a fascination with Satanism in his
• 1:08:38
  films, but literally, Rosemary's Baby just came out around that
• 1:08:42
  same time. Yeah, as the murders and how
• 1:08:45
  identical, how art is imitating life is eerie in that little
• 1:08:48
  scenario there. Well, it's also it's filmed in
• 1:08:51
  the same place that John Anna was shot.
• 1:08:53
  Like in the big exception? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:56
  Do you know what actually happened?
• 1:08:58
  This is true. On the night of the Take
• 1:08:59
  murders, Anton Zandor Lavey did a magical working in which he
• 1:09:05
  tried to curse the entire hippie generation.
• 1:09:10
  Some might say that it works. Anton Lavey lived in the Laurel
• 1:09:15
  Canyon area, Yeah, if I remember correctly.
• 1:09:17
  And his neighbor was, oh God, he was connected to the Hutu of
• 1:09:22
  musicians over there. And I had yeah, yeah, kind of
• 1:09:26
  thing. It will come back to me who he
• 1:09:30
  was connected to. There's a Trent Reznor
• 1:09:32
  connection somewhere down the line.
• 1:09:34
  Oh yeah, I mean Marion Manson was in the the trend resident
• 1:09:37
  that I did the downwards file at Seattle Drive and recorded
• 1:09:40
  Marion Manson's first album there, Marion Manson's All day
• 1:09:42
  Military of the Church of Satan. Nick Shrek, who is sort of,
• 1:09:45
  probably one of the sort of foremost experts on Charles
• 1:09:48
  Manson he's married to, to Anton Lavey's daughter, Zina Lavey,
• 1:09:54
  who people sometimes think he's a clone of Taylor Swift.
• 1:09:58
  But in Laurel Canyon. I don't know if you've been I I
• 1:10:03
  used to live around that area. I dated a girl who lived
• 1:10:05
  literally in Laurel Canyon. And it is technically, it's
• 1:10:10
  still the same as Hollywood Hills.
• 1:10:11
  It's all connected. It's very, yeah, it's very it's
• 1:10:15
  very hilly. It's very there's a lot of
• 1:10:17
  hidden areas. You have Jared Leto, who lives
• 1:10:21
  at the top and has some kind of weird building there.
• 1:10:22
  It's all connected. He's not building the lookout
• 1:10:25
  building was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's been sort of CIA
• 1:10:28
  experiments and mine child experiments and stuff like that
• 1:10:31
  right now. I don't think he's not anymore,
• 1:10:33
  obviously, but the building where the facility was, he now
• 1:10:35
  lives there basically. So yeah, so it's all connected.
• 1:10:39
  And you know, there's underground tunnels that
• 1:10:41
  connected to Playboy Mansion, connected to Warren Beatty's
• 1:10:44
  house, James Conn, the Getty's, I mean old bootlegger tunnels
• 1:10:49
  from like the 20s, you know, so that that existed back then.
• 1:10:52
  So this is a quite fascinating intertwine of a story where I
• 1:10:56
  can only imagine, Neil that Charles Manson was probably
• 1:10:59
  maybe promised protection if he went along with this and they'll
• 1:11:03
  get him out at X amount of time by the District Attorney who
• 1:11:05
  hated the beach was a Beach Boys guy.
• 1:11:09
  Kind of Nick something was the I nearly came back to me.
• 1:11:13
  The name of The Beach Boys manager, anyway.
• 1:11:16
  Charles Manson is very, very candid in these in a lot of
• 1:11:19
  interviews, he's basically said at least the one with Michelle
• 1:11:21
  Ben Horan, he says Vincent Bugliosi came to me from Geneva
• 1:11:25
  offering me sunshine if I'd only roll on, blah blah blah.
• 1:11:28
  The long short of it is he was basically offered like a shorter
• 1:11:31
  term if he rolled on text and he refused to.
• 1:11:34
  He's not a grass, he's not a stats, he won't roll on anybody.
• 1:11:37
  So basically what that inference is that Vincent Bugliosi gave to
• 1:11:41
  me offer me Sunshine from Geneva.
• 1:11:43
  The inferences that Vincent buglio CK to him and said, look,
• 1:11:46
  the Genovesi family have said XY&Z, blah blah blah.
• 1:11:49
  If you just do this, you'll be cool.
• 1:11:51
  But basically, Charlie, again, it depends on who you speak to.
• 1:11:55
  Some people would say, well, it's obvious that he's just
• 1:11:57
  basically can't have done that on the slide and he's probably
• 1:11:59
  perfectly happy in prison because he always had drugs, he
• 1:12:01
  always had access to sex, he would have, he said.
• 1:12:05
  He's legend in prison. It really isn't he?
• 1:12:08
  Like, do you know what I mean? Like, and so there's arguments
• 1:12:12
  that basically, like he's perfectly happy to do that.
• 1:12:16
  It's it's, yeah, it's strange. For this.
• 1:12:19
  There's also in the Michelle Bern Horan interview, he says,
• 1:12:21
  look, I'll tell you exactly what happened.
• 1:12:23
  And he goes on this long run about how basically this
• 1:12:26
  happened when he says when the hall got on the stand.
• 1:12:29
  And started lying about Lucky Luciano.
• 1:12:31
  That's how they did me, because Al Pacino and Rambo have got to
• 1:12:35
  come to Hollywood and make all this movie and so, and that
• 1:12:38
  sounds nonsensical, but what he's saying there is Linda
• 1:12:41
  Kasabian just got on the sand and lied, OK.
• 1:12:44
  She basically lied and did exactly what the prosecutor
• 1:12:47
  asked to because the original witness, the prosecution, was
• 1:12:49
  Susan Atkins, who by the way, never mentioned Helter Skelter
• 1:12:54
  in her grand jury appearances. And then basically.
• 1:12:57
  She decides she didn't want to do that.
• 1:12:58
  So they got Linda Kasabian, who had previously been up for the
• 1:13:01
  death penalty. And so he's saying in the same
• 1:13:03
  way that they got a prostitute to lie about Lucky Luciano to
• 1:13:06
  get him to jail. That's what they did with him.
• 1:13:09
  And the inference of and Al Pacino is Italian actors who are
• 1:13:13
  in the pocket of the of the mob. That basically he's saying that
• 1:13:17
  all of these storms wouldn't be able to be made without the
• 1:13:19
  mafia. And so this is the cover up
• 1:13:21
  essentially that's the cover up of the Manson case.
• 1:13:23
  He's so that to not pull on too many threats because essentially
• 1:13:26
  sooner or later you're going to say, well he's providing all
• 1:13:29
  these celebrities with the drugs and at that point, right, you
• 1:13:32
  see only the mafia and also the mafia.
• 1:13:34
  We use these. Allegedly.
• 1:13:35
  We're using these film studios to launder money.
• 1:13:38
  And particularly drug money. And then if you really want to
• 1:13:41
  get into it, you've got all sorts of complicated stuff like
• 1:13:44
  well, wasn't it also the CIA bringing in the drugs?
• 1:13:46
  Yes. Wasn't there sort of mafia Cuba
• 1:13:48
  thing going on? Yes.
• 1:13:50
  So it gets, it depends how far you want to sort of.
• 1:13:55
  It's so fascinating and I think the moral of the story Neil is,
• 1:13:58
  had The Beach Boys just allowed Manson in their band, we could
• 1:14:01
  have prevented this. Potentially, Yeah.
• 1:14:04
  Yeah, they just, you know, had another guitarist.
• 1:14:06
  But Neil, you are so fascinating in this particular story, in
• 1:14:10
  this incredible book. If you haven't got it and you
• 1:14:14
  haven't heard about it, you can get it now.
• 1:14:15
  Still at your on Amazon. You can also get it, I'm sure,
• 1:14:20
  on Neil's websites. I'll try to, I'll provide a link
• 1:14:22
  on real deal media on TV, but it is now is the only time that is
• 1:14:26
  real. It fascinated me just a few
• 1:14:29
  years ago when I first found out about and it's still fascinating
• 1:14:31
  today as we really have another look about history even in the
• 1:14:36
  modern times of what really happened.
• 1:14:38
  But Neil kind of final final thoughts here and also you can
• 1:14:43
  check out his podcast too. Some dare call it conspiracy,
• 1:14:45
  but some final thoughts and also best way to follow your work.
• 1:14:51
  Well as I said my website is Neil Sanders mindcontrol.com or
• 1:14:53
  I'm on Twitter or on Facebook or you can listen go on Spotify and
• 1:14:57
  listen to we've done quite a few episodes of the the podcast.
• 1:15:01
  We go into real deep dives for conspiracy theories and find out
• 1:15:04
  what their origin was, where they started, you know, whether
• 1:15:08
  they hold water or not. And and you know, we've examined
• 1:15:11
  some of the real big ones as well, like things like Bohemian
• 1:15:14
  Grove found out exactly what went on there and and stuff like
• 1:15:18
  that what went on with Hunter Byron's laptop.
• 1:15:20
  What went on with Jeffrey Epstein?
• 1:15:21
  Did he kill himself? And you know that we go properly
• 1:15:25
  hard with this. Like really, really no stone
• 1:15:27
  unturned. What's going to happen with
• 1:15:30
  Leslie Van Hausen as well? We'd like.
• 1:15:31
  I think she deserves to be paroled.
• 1:15:33
  I'll be astonished if she is, because I don't think any
• 1:15:35
  politician wants to be associated with freeing members
• 1:15:37
  of the Manson family. I know, I know some have been
• 1:15:39
  released, like Clan was released a while ago, but I don't know.
• 1:15:43
  I think people would ball cut it, basically.
• 1:15:47
  That's a good point. It would be bad PR.
• 1:15:50
  Neil Sanders, thank you so much for being here tonight on late
• 1:15:53
  night thoughts. I would love to have you back on
• 1:15:56
  absolutely different topics, everybody.
• 1:16:00
  So you can follow Neil and I'll have a links to his work, his
• 1:16:03
  incredible amount and body work and his new incredible podcast,
• 1:16:07
  some dare call it Conspiracy with Neil Sanders.
• 1:16:10
  Neil Sanders, thank you very much.