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Phaedrus · Phaedrus

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Section one of Pidrus by Plato. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox
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recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please
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visit LibriVox dot org. Recording by Martin Geeson. Phidrus by Plato, translated
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by Benjamin Jowett, Section one Persons of the Dialog Socrates Phidrus scene under a
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plane tree by the banks of the Ilissus. My dear Phidrus, whence come
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you? And whither are you going? I come from Lyseas, the son
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of Caphalus, and I am going to take a walk out side the wall,
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for I have been sitting with him the whole morning, and our common
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friend Acumenus tells me that it is much more refreshing to walk in the open
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air than to be shut up in a cloister. There he is right,
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Lucius, then I suppose was in the town. Yes, he was staying
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with Epicrates here at the house of Monicus, that house which is near the
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temple of Olympian Zeus. Ah, And how did he entertain you? Could
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I be wrong in supposing that Lucias gave you a feast of discourse? You
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shall hear if you can spare time to accompany me. Ah, And should
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I not deem the conversation of you and lucias a thing of higher import,
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as I may say in the words of Pindar than any business. Will you
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go on? And will you go on? With the narration? My tale,
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Socrates, is one of your sort, for love was the theme which
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occupied us. Love. After a fashion, Lucius has been writing about a
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fair youth who was being tempted, but not by a lover, and this
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was the point he ingeniously proved that the non lover should be accepted rather than
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the lover. Oh, that is noble of him. I wish that he
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would say the poor man rather than the rich, and the old man rather
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than the young one. Then he would meet the case of me and many
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a man. His words would be quite refreshing, and he would be a
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public benefactor. For my part. I do so long to hear his speech
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that if you walk all the way to Megara, and when you have reach'd
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the wall, come back, as Herodicous recommends, without going in, I
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will keep you company. What do you mean, my good Socrates, How
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can you imagine that my unpracticed memory can do justice to such an elaborate work,
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which the greatest retorician of the age spent a long time in composing.
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Indeed, I cannot, I would give a great deal if I could.
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I believe that I know Fidress about as well as I know myself. And
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I am very sure that the speech of Lucias was repeated to him, not
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once only, but again and again. He insisted on hearing it many times
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over, and Lucius was very willing to gratify him. At last, when
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nothing else would do, he got hold of the book and looked at what
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he most wanted to see. This occupied him during the whole morning, and
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then when he was tired with sitting, he went out to take a walk.
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Not until by the dog, as I believe, he had simply learned
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by heart the entire discourse, unless it was unusually long, and he went
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to a place outside the wall that he might practice his lesson. There he
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he saw a certain lover of discourse who had a similar weakness. He saw
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and rejoiced. Now thought he I shall have a partner in my revels,
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and he invited him to come and walk with him. But when the lover
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of discourse begged that he would repeat the tale. He gave himself airs and
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said, no, I can not, as if he were indisposed, although
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if the hearer had refused, he would sooner or later have been compelled by
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him to listen, whether he would or no. Therefore, fight us,
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bid him do at once what he soon will do, whether bidden or not.
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I see that you will not let me off until I speak in some
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way, fashion or other. Verily, therefore, my best plan is to
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speak as I best can, a very true remark that of yours. I
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will do as I say. But believe me, Socrates, I did not
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learn the very words. No. Nevertheless, I have a general notion of
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what he said, and will give you a summary of the points in which
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the lover differed from the non lover. Let me begin at the beginning.
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M Yes, my sweet one, but you must first of all show what
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you have in your left hand under your cloak for that role, as I
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suspect, is the actual discourse. Now, much as I love you,
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I would not have you suppose, but I am going to have your memory
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exercised at my expense. If you have Lysias himself here enough, I see
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that I have no hope of practicing my art upon you. But if I
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am to read, where would you please to sit? Let us turn aside
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and go by the Ilisses. We will sit down at some quiet spot.
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I am fortunate in not having my sandals, and as you never have any,
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I think that we may go along the brook and cool our feet in
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the water. This will be the easiest way, and at midday and in
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the summer, is far from being unpleasant. Lead on and look out for
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a place in which we can sit down. Do you see the tallest plane
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tree in the distance. Yes, there are shade and gentle breezes and grass
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on which we may either sit or lie down. Move forward. I should
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like to know, Socrates, whether the place is not somewhere here at which
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Boreas is said to have carried off Orithea from the banks of the Ilissus.
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Such is the tradition, And is this the exact spot? The little stream
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is delightfully clear and bright. I can fancy that there might be maidens playing
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near. I believe that the spot is not exactly here, but about a
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quarter of a mile lower down, where you cross to the temple of Artemis,
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and there is I think some sort of an altar of Boreas at the
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place. Ah, I have never noticed it, but I beseech you to
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tell me, Socrates, do you believe this tale? The wise are doubtful,
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and I should not be singular. If like them I too doubted.
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I might have a rational explanation that Orithea was playing with var Machia when a
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northern dust carried her over the neighboring rocks, and this being the manner of
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her death, she was said to have been carried away by Boreas. There
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is a discrepancy, however, about the locality. According to another version of
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the story, she was taken from Areopagus, and not from this place.
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Now I quite acknowledge that these allegories are very nice, But he is not
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to be envied who has to invent them. Much labor and ingenuity will be
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requir'd of him. And when he has once begun, he must go on
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and rehabilitate hippo centaurs and chimeras, dire gorgans and winged steeds flow in apace,
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and numberless other inconceivable and portentous natures. And if he is skeptical about
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them, and would fain, reduce them one after another to the rules of
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probability. This sort of crude philosophy will take up a great deal of time.
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Now I have no leisure for such inquiries. Shall I tell you why?
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I must first know myself, as the Delphian inscription says, to be
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curious about that which is not my concern while I am still in ignorance of
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my own self would be ridiculous. And therefore I bid farewell to all this.
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The common opinion is enough for me, For as I was saying,
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I want to know not about this but about myself. Am I a monster
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more complicated and swollen with passion than the serpent teoful? Or a creature of
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a gentler and simpler sort to whom nature has given a diviner and lowlier destiny.
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But let me ask you, friend, have we not reach'd the plane
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tree to which you were conducting us? Yet this is the tree by hearer,
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a fair resting place full of summer sounds and scents. Here is this
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lofty and spreading plane tree, and the agnoscastus high and clustering in the fullest
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blossom and the greatest fragrance. And the stream which flows beneath the plane tree
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is deliciously cold to the feet. Judging from the ornaments and images, this
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must be a spot sacred to Achilous and the nymphs. Oh, how delightful
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is the breeze, so very sweet? And there is a sound in the
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air, shrill and summer like, which makes answer to the chorus of the
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Ciicardi. But the greatest charm of all is the grass, like a pillow,
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gently slooping to the head. My dear fight Russ, you have been
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an admirable guide. End of section one, Section two, What an incomprehensible
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being. You are Socrates when you are in the country, as you say,
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you really are like some stranger who is led about by a guide.
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Do you ever cross the border? I rather think that you never venture even
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outside the gates. Very true, my good friend, and I hope that
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you will excuse me when you hear the reason, which is that I am
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a lover of knowledge, and the men who dwell in the city are my
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teachers, and not the trees or the country. Though I do indeed believe
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that you have found a spell with which to draw me out of the city
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into the country, like a hungry cow before whom a bough a bunch of
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fruit is waved for only hold up before me in like manner a book,
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and you may lead me all round Attica and over the wide world. And
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now having arrived, I intend to lie down, And do you choose any
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posture in which you can read best? Begin? Listen. You know how
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matters stand with me, and how as I conceive the affair may be arranged
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for the advantage of both of us. And I maintain that I ought not
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to fail in my suit, because I am not your lover. For lovers
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repent of the kindnesses which they have shown when their passion ceases. But to
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the non lovers, who are free and not under any compulsion, no time
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of repentance ever comes. For they confer their benefits according to the measure of
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their ability in the way which is most conducive to their own interest. Then
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again, lovers consider how, by reason of their love they have neglected their
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own concerns and and a service to others. And when do these benefits conferred,
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they add on the troubles which they have endured. They think that they
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have long ago made to the beloved a very ample return. But the non
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lover has no such tormenting recollections. He has never neglected his affairs or quarreled
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with his relations. He has no troubles to add up or excuses to invent,
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and being well rid of all these evils, why should he not really
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do what will gratify the beloved? If you say that the lover is more
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to be esteemed because his love is thought to be greater, for he is
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willing to say and do what is hateful to other men in order to please
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his beloved. That, if true, is only a proof that he will
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prefer any future love to his present, and will injure his old love at
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the pleasure of the new. And how in a matter of such infinite importance
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can a man be right in trusting himself to one who is afflicted with a
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malady which no experienced person would attempt to cure. For the patient himself admits
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that he is not in his right mind, and acknowledges that he is wrong
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in his mind, but says that he is unable to control himself. And
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if he came to his right mind, would he ever imagine that the desires
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were good which he conceived when in his wrong mind? Once more, there
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are many more non lovers than lovers. And if you choose the best of
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the lovers, you will not have many to choose from, But if from
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the non lovers, the choice will be larger, and you will be far
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more likely to find among them a person who is worthy of your friendship.
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If public opinion be your dread, and you would avoid reproach in all probability,
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the lover, who is always thinking that other men are as emulous of
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him as he is of them, will boast to someone of his successes and
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make a show of them openly in the pride of his heart. He wants
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others to know that his labor has not been lost. But the non is
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more his own master, and is desirous of solid good and not the opinion
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of mankind. Again, the lover may be generally noted or seen following the
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beloved. This is his regular occupation, and whenever they are observed to exchange
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two words, they are supposed to meet about some affair of love, either
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past or in contemplation. But when non lovers meet, no one asks the
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reason why, because people know that talking to another is natural, Whether friendship
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or mere pleasure, be the motive. Once more, if you fear the
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fickleness of friendship, consider that in any other case a quarrel might be mutual
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calamity. But now, when you have given up what is most precious to
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you, you will be the greater loser, and therefore you will have more
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reason in being afraid of the lover. For his vexations are many, and
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he is always fancying that everyone is leagued against him. Wherefore also he debars
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his beloved from society. He will not have you intimate with the wealthy,
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lest they should exceed him in wealth, or with men of education, lest
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they should be his superiors in understanding. And he is equally afraid of anybody's
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influence who has any other advantage over himself. If he can persuade you to
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break with them, you are left without a friend in the world. Or
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if, out of a regard to your own interest, you have more sense
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than to comply with his desire, you will have to quarrel with him.
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But those who are non lovers, and whose success in love is the reward
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of their merit, will not be jealous of the companions of their beloved,
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and will rather hate those who refuse to be his associates, thinking that their
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favorite is slighted by the latter and benefited by the former, for more love
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than hatred may be expected to come to him out of his friendship with others.
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Many lovers, too, have lov'd the person of a youth before they
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knew his character or his belongings, so that when their passion has passed away,
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there is no knowing whether they will continue to be his friends. Whereas
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in the case of non lovers who were always friends, the friendship is not
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lessen'd by the favors granted, but the recollection of these remains with them and
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is an earnest of good things to come. Further, I say that you
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are likely to be improv'd by me, whereas the lover will spoil you,
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for they praise your words and actions in a wrong way, partly because they
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are afraid of offending you, and also their judgment is weaken'd by passion.
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Such are the feats which love exhibits. He makes things painful to the disc
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appointed, which give no pain to others. He compels the successful lover to
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praise what ought not to give him pleasure, and therefore the beloved is to
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be pitied rather than envied. But if you listen to me in the first
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place, I, in my intercourse with you, shall not merely regard present
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enjoyment, but also future advantage, being not mastered by love but my own
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master. Nor for small causes, taking violent dislikes, but even when the
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cause is great, slowly laying up little wrath, unintentional offenses, I shall
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forgive, and intentional ones I shall try to prevent. And these are the
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marks of a friendship which will last. Do you think that a lover only
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can be a firm friend? Reflect If this were true, we should set
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small value on sons, or fathers or mothers. Nor should we ever have
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loyal friends, for our love of them arises not from passion, but from
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other associations. Further, if we ought to shower favors on those who are
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the most eager suitors, on that principle, we ought always to do good,
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not to the most virtuous, but to the most needy, For they
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are the persons who will be most relieved, and will therefore be the most
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grateful. And when you make a feast, you should invite not your frien
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friend, but the beggar and the empty soul, for they will love you
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and attend you, and come about your doors, and will be the best
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pleased and the most grateful, and will invoke many a blessing on your head.
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Yet, surely you ought not to be granting favors to those who beseech
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you with prayer, but to those who are best able to reward you,
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Nor to the lover only, but to those who are worthy of love.
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Nor to those who will enjoy the bloom of your youth, but to those
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who will share their possessions with you in age, nor to those who,
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having succeeded, will glory in their success to others, but to those who
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will be modest and tell no tales, Nor to those who cared about you
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for a moment only, but to those who will continue your friends through life.
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Nor to those who, when their passion is over, will pick a
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quarrel with you, But rather to those who, when the charm of youth
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has left you, will show their own virtue. Remember what I have said,
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and consider yet this further point. Friends, admonish the lover under the
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idea that his way of life is bad, But no one of his kindred
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ever yet censured the non lover, or thought that he was ill advised about
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his own interests. Perhaps you will ask me whether I propose that you should
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indulge every non lover, to which I reply that not even the lover would
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advise you to indulge all lovers, for the indiscriminate favor is less esteemed by
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the rational recipient and less easily hidden by him who would escape the censure of
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the world. Now love ought to be for the advantage of both parties,
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and for the injury of neither. I believe that I have said enough.
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But if there is anything more which you desire, or which, in your
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opinion, needs to be supplied, ask and I will answer. End of
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section two, Section three. Now, Socrates, what do you think is
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not the discourse excellent? More especially in the matter of the language, Yes,
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quite admirable. The effect on me was ravishing, and this I owe
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to you, Fightreus, for I observ'd you while reading to be in an
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ecstasy, and thinking that you are more experienced in these matters than I am.
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I followed your example, and like you, my divine darling, I
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became inspired with a frienzy. Indeed, you are pleased to be merry?
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Do you mean that I am not in earnest? Now don't talk in that
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way, Socrates, But let me have your real opinion. I adjure you,
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by Zeus, the god of friendship, to tell me whether you think
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that any Helene could have said more nor spoken better on the same subject.
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Wow, But are you and I expected to praise the sentiments of the author
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or only the clearness and roundness and finish and to aneuur of the language.
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As to the first, I willingly submit to your better judgment, for I
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am not worthy to form an opinion, having only attended to the rhetorical manner.
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And I was doubting whether this could have been defended even by Lucius himself.
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I thought, will I speak under correction that he repeated himself two or
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three times, either from want of words or from want of pains, And
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all so he appear'd to me ostentatiously to exult in shewing how well he could
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say the same thing in two or three ways. Poh, nonsense, Socrates.
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What you call repetition was the especial merit of the speech, for he
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omitted no topic of which the subject rightly allowed. And I do not think
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that any one could have spoken better or more exhaustively. Dare I cannot go
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along with you ancient sages, men and women who have spoken and written of
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these things would rise up in judgment against me if out of complaiscence I assented
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to you. Who are they? And where did you hear anything better than
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this? I am sure that I must have heard, but at this moment
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I do not remember from whom, perhaps from Sappho the Fair, or Anacreon
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the Wise, or possibly from a prose writer. Why do I say so?
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Why because I perceive that my possum is full, and that I could
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make another speech as good as that of Lucias and different. Now I am
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certain that this is not an invention of my own. Who am well aware
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that I know nothing, and therefore I can only infer that I have been
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fill'd through the ears like a picture from the waters of another. Though I
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have actually forgotten in my stupidity who was my informant? That is grand,
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But never mind where you heard the discourse or from whom. Let that be
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a mystery not to be divulged even at my earnest desire. Only, as
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you say, promise to make another and better oration, equal in length and
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entirely new, on the same subject, And I, like the nine Archons,
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will promise to set up a golden image at Delphi, not only of
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myself, but of you, and as large as life, you are a
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dear golden ass. If you suppose me to mean that Lucias has altogether missed
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the mark, and that I can make speech from which all his arguments are
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to be excluded, the worst of authors will say something which is to the
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point. Who, for example, could speak on this thesis of yours without
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praising the discretion of the non lover and blaming the indiscretion of the lover.
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These are the common places of the subject which must come in, for what
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else is there to be said? And must be allowed and excused. The
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only merit is in the arrangement of them, for there can be none in
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the invention. But when you leave the common places, then there may be
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some originality. I admit that there is reason in what you say, and
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I too will be reasonable and will allow you to start with the premise that
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the lover is more disordered in his wits than the non lover. If in
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what remains you make a longer and better speech than Lysias and use other arguments,
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then I say again that a statue you shall have of beaten gold,
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and take your place by the colossal offerings of the cupsilids at Olympia. How
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profoundly in earnest is the lover, because to tease him I lay a finger
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upon his love, and so phidrous you really imagine that I am going to
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improve upon the ingenuity of Lucias there I have you as you had me,
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and you must just speak as you best can. No, do not let
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us exchange to quackware, as in a farce, or compel me to say
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to you as you said to me. I know Socrates as well as I
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know myself, and he was wanting to speak, but he gave himself airs.
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Rather, I would have you consider that from this place we stir,
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not not until you have unbosomed yourself of the speech. For here are we
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all alone, and I am stronger, remember, and younger than you.
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Wherefore perpend, and do not compel me to use violence. Ha ha ha
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ha. But my sweet Fidrus, how ridiculous it would be of me to
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compete with Lysias in an extent empress speech. He is a master in his
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art, and I am an untaught man. You see how matters stand.
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And therefore let there be no more pretenses. For indeed I know the word
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that is irresistible. Then don't say it. Yes, but I will,
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and my word shall be an oath. I say, or rather swear,
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But what God will be witness of my oath by this plain tree. I
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swear that unless you repeat the discourse here in the face of this very plain
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tree, I will never tell you another never let you have word of another
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villain. I am conquered. The poor lover of discourse has no more to
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say. Then why are you still at your tricks? I am not going
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to play tricks now that you have taken the oath, for I cannot allow
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myself to be starved. Proceed Shall I tell you what I will do?
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What I will veil my face and gallop through the discourse as fast as I
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can, For if I see you, I shall feel ashamed and not know
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what to say. Only go on, and you may do anything else which
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you please. Now come, O ye muses, meldious, as ye are
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called, whether you have received this name from the character of your strains or
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because the millions are a musical race. Help, oh, help me in
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the tale which my good friend here desires me to rehearse in order that his
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friend whom he always deemed wise, may seem to him to be wiser than
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ever. Once upon a time there was a fair boy, or more properly
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speaking, a youth. He was very fair and had a great many lovers.
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And there was one special cunning one who had persuaded the youth that he
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did not love him, but he really loved him all the same. And
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one day, when he was paying his addresses to him, he used this
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very argument that he all to accept the non lover rather than the lover his
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words. Whereas follows, all good counsel begins in the same way. A
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man should know what he is advising about, or his counsel will all come
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to nought. But people imagine that they know about the nature of things when
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they don't know about them, and not having come to an understanding at first,
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because they think that they know, they end, as might be expected,
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in contradicting one another and themselves. Now you and I must not be
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guilty of this fundamental error, which we condemn in others. But as our
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question is whether the lover or the non lover is to be preferred, let
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us first of all agree in defining the nature and power of love, and
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then, keeping our eyes upon the definition and to this appealing, let us
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further inquire whether love brings advantage or disadvantage. Everyone sees that love is a
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desire, and we know also that non lovers desire the beautiful and good.
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Now, in what way is the lover to be distinguished from the non lover?
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Let us note that in every one of us there are two guiding and
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ruling principles which lead us whither they will. One is the natural desire of
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pleasure. The other is an acquired opinion, which aspires after the best.
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And these two are sometimes in harmony, and then again at war, And
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sometimes the one, sometimes the other conquers. When opinion, by the help
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of reason, leads us to the best, the conquering principle is called temperance.
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But when desire, which is devoid of reason, rules in us and
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drags us to pleasure, that power of misrule is called excess. Now,
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excess has many names, and many members, and many forms. And any
41:45
of these forms, when very marked, gives a name neither honorable nor creditable
41:53
to the bearer of the name. The desire of eating, for example,
41:59
which gets the better of the higher reason, and the other desires is called
42:05
gluttony, and he who is possessed by it is called a glutton. The
42:12
tyrannical desire of drink, which inclines the possessor of the desire to drink,
42:19
has a name which is only too obvious. And there can be as little
42:24
doubt by what name any other appetite of the same family would be called.
42:31
It will be the name of that which happens to be dominant. And now
42:38
I think that you will perceive the drift of my discourse. But as every
42:45
spoken word is in a manner plainer than the unspoken, I had better say
42:52
further that the irrational desire which overcomes the tendency of opinion towards right, and
43:01
is led away to the enjoyment of beauty, and especially of personal beauty,
43:09
by the desires which are her own kindred, that supreme desire, I say,
43:16
which by leading conquers, and by the force of passion, is reinforced.
43:24
From this very force receiving a name, is called love erominous heros.
43:37
End of section three, Section four. And now, dear Fidrus, I
43:45
shall pause for an instant to ask whether you do not think me as I
43:51
appear to myself inspir'd yees, Socrates, you seem to have a very un
44:00
usual flow of words. Listen to me then, in silence, For surely
44:07
the place is wholly, so that you must not wonder if, as I
44:12
proceed, I appear to be in a divine fury. For already I am
44:19
getting into dillirambics. Nothing can be truer. The responsibility rests with you.
44:29
But hear what follows, and perhaps the fit may be averted. All is
44:36
in their hands above. I will go on talking to my youth. Listen,
44:45
thus, my friend, we have declared and defined the nature of the
44:50
subject. Keeping the definition in view, let us now inquire what advantage or
44:58
disadvantage is likely to ensue from the lover or the non lover to him who
45:05
accepts their advances. He who is the victim of his passions and the slave
45:12
of pleasure, will of course desire to make his beloved as agreeable to himself
45:19
as possible. Now to him who has a mind diseased, anything is agreeable
45:27
which is not opposed to him, but that which is equal or superior is
45:34
hateful to him. And therefore the lover will not brook any superiority or equality
45:43
on the part of his beloved, he is always employed in reducing him to
45:50
inferiority. And the ignorant is the inferior of the wise, the coward of
45:58
the brave, the slow of speech of the speaker, the dull of the
46:05
clever. These and not these only, are the mental defects of the beloved,
46:13
defects which, when implanted by nature, are necessarily a delight to the
46:19
lover. And when not implanted, he must contrive to implant them in him
46:28
if he would not be deprived of his fleeting joy. And therefore he cannot
46:34
help being jealous, and will debar his beloved from the advantages of society which
46:42
would make a man of him, and especially from that society which would have
46:47
given him wisdom. And thereby he cannot fail to do him great harm,
46:55
that is to say, in his excessive fear lest he should come to be
47:00
despised in his eyes, he will be compelled to banish from him divine philosophy.
47:09
And there is no greater injury which he can inflict upon him than this.
47:16
He will contrive that his beloved shall be wholly ignorant, and in everything
47:23
shall look to him. He is to be the delight of the lover's heart
47:30
and a curse to himself. Verily, a lover is a profitable guardian and
47:37
associate for him in all that relates to his mind. Let us next see
47:45
how his master, whose law of life is pleasure and not good, will
47:51
keep and train the body of his servant. Will he not choose a beloved
47:58
who is delicate rather than sturdy and strong, one brought up in shady bowers,
48:06
and not in the bright sun, a stranger to manly exercise it,
48:12
and the sweat of toil, accustomed only to a soft and luxurious diet,
48:19
instead of the hues of health, having the colors of paint and ornament,
48:25
and the rest of a peace. Such a life as any one can imagine,
48:32
and which I need not detail at length, but I may sum up
48:38
all that I have to say in a word and pass on. Such a
48:44
person in war or in any of the great crises of life, will be
48:50
the anxiety of his friends and also of his lover, and certainly not the
48:57
terror of his enemies, which nobody can deny. And now let us tell
49:06
what advantage or disadvantage the beloved will receive from the guardianship and society of his
49:14
lover in the matter of his property. This is the next point to be
49:21
considered. The lover will be the first to see what, indeed will be
49:27
sufficiently evident to all men, that he desires, above all things to deprive
49:35
his beloved of his dearest and best and holiest possessions, father, mother,
49:44
kindred friends, of all whom he thinks may be hinderers or reprovers of their
49:52
most sweet converse. He will even cast a jealous eye upon his gold and
50:00
silver or other property, because these make him a less easy prey, and
50:07
when caught less manageable. Hence he is of necessity displeased at his possession of
50:15
them, and rejoices at their loss. And he would like him to be
50:21
wifeless, childless, homeless as well. And the longer the better. For
50:28
the longer he is all this, the longer he will enjoy him. There
50:37
are some sort of animals, such as flatterers, who are dangerous and mischievous
50:43
enough, and yet nature has mingled a temporary pleasure and grace in their composition.
50:52
You may say that a courtisan is hurtful and disapprove of such creatures and
50:59
their practice, and yet for the time they are very pleasant But the lover
51:06
is not only hurtful to his love, he is also an extremely disagreeable companion.
51:15
The old proverb says that birds of a feather flock together. I suppose
51:22
that equality of years inclines them to the same pleasures, and similarity begets friendship.
51:30
Yet you may have more than enough even of this, and verily constraint
51:37
is always said to be grievous. Now the lover is not only unlike his
51:45
beloved, but he forces himself upon him, for he is old and his
51:52
love is young, And neither dan nor night will he leave him if he
51:58
can help. Necessity and the sting of desire drive him on and allure him
52:05
with the pleasure which he receives from seeing, hearing, touching, perceiving him
52:12
in every way. And therefore he is delighted to fasten upon him and to
52:19
minister to him. But what pleasure or consolation can the beloved be receiving all
52:27
this time? Must he not feel the extremity of disgust when he looks at
52:35
an old, shriveled face, and the remainder to match, which even in
52:42
a description is disagreeable and quite detestable. When he is forced into daily contact
52:50
with his lover. Moreover, he is jealously watch'd and guarded against everything and
52:58
everybody, and has to hear misplaced and exaggerated praises of himself and sensuous equally
53:07
inappropriate, which are intolerable when the man is sober, and besides being intolerable,
53:15
are published all over the world in their indelicacy and wearisomeness. When he
53:22
is drunk, and not only while his love continues is he mischievous and unpleasant.
53:32
But when his love ceases, he becomes a perfidious enemy of him on
53:38
whom he showered his oaths and prayers and promises, and yet could hardly prevail
53:46
upon him to tolerate the tedium of his company, even from motives of interest.
53:55
The hour of payment arrives, and now now he is the servant of
54:00
another master. Instead of love and infatuation, wisdom and temperance are his bosom's
54:12
lords. But the beloved has not discover'd the change which has taken place in
54:19
him. When he asks for a return and recalls to his recollection former sayings
54:28
and doings, he believes himself to be speaking to the same person and the
54:34
other, not having the courage to confess the truth, and, not knowing
54:39
how to fulfill the oaths and promises which were made when under the dominion of
54:45
folly, and having now grown wise and temperate, does not want to do
54:52
as he did or to be as he was before, and so he runs
55:00
away and is constrained to be a defaulter. The oyster shell in allusion to
55:09
a game in which two parties fled or pursued, according as an oyster shell
55:15
which was thrown into the air fell with the dark or light side uppermost translator's
55:22
footnote has fallen with the other side uppermost. He changes pursuit into flight,
55:32
while the other is compelled to follow him with passion and imprecation, not knowing
55:39
that he ought never from the first to have accepted a demented lover instead of
55:45
a sensible non lover, and that in making such a choice he was giving
55:52
himself up to a faithless, morose, envious, disagreeable, being hurtful to
56:01
his estate, hurtful to his bodily health, and still more hurtful to the
56:08
cultivation of his mind, than which there neither is, nor ever will be
56:15
anything more honored in the eyes both of gods and men. Consider this fair
56:23
youth, and know that in the friendship of the lover there is no real
56:30
kindness. He has an appetite and wants to feed upon you. As wolves
56:39
love lambs, so lovers love their loves. But I told you so,
56:50
I am speaking in verse, and therefore I had better make an end enough.
56:59
I thought that you are only half way, and we're going to make
57:02
a similar speech about all the advantages of accepting the non lover. Why do
57:09
you not proceed? Does not your simplicity observe that I have got out of
57:19
diddyrambics into heroics. We're only uttering a censure on the lover. And if
57:27
I am to add the praises of the non lover, what will become of
57:31
me? Do you not perceive that I am already overtaken by the nymphs to
57:39
whom you have mischievously exposed me. And therefore I will only add that the
57:47
non lover has all the advantages in which the lover is accused of being deficient.
57:55
And now I will say no more. There's enough of both of them.
58:05
Leaving the tale to its fate. I will cross the river and make
58:09
the best of my way home, lest the worst thing be inflicted upon me
58:15
by you. Not yet Socrates, not until the heat of the day has
58:22
passed. Do you not see that the hour is almost noon, There is
58:30
the midday sun standing still, as people say in the meridian. Let us
58:38
rather stay and talk over what has been said, and then return in the
58:45
cool end of section four, Section five. Your love of discourse fightrous is
58:59
souper, per human, simply marvelous. And I do not believe that there
59:05
is any one of your contemporaries who has either made or in one way or
59:10
another, has compelled others to make an equal number of speeches. I would
59:19
except Simias the theban but all the rest are far behind you. And now
59:25
I do verily believe that you have been the cause of another. That is
59:32
good news. But what do you mean? I mean to say that,
59:38
as I was about to cross the stream, the usual sign was given to
59:44
me, that sign which always forbids but never pits me to do anything which
59:52
I am going to do. And I thought that I heard a voice saying
59:58
in my ear that I had been guilty of impiety, and that I must
1:00:04
not go away until I had made an atonement. Now I am a diviner,
1:00:12
though not a very good one. But I have enough religion for my
1:00:16
own use. As you might say of a bad writer, his writing is
1:00:22
good enough for him. And I am beginning to see that I was in
1:00:28
error. Oh, my friend, how prophetic is the human soul. At
1:00:35
the time I had a sort of misgiving, and like Ibiqus, I was
1:00:42
troubled. I feared that I might be buying honor from men at the price
1:00:47
of sinning against the gods. Oh, now I recognize my error. What
1:00:55
error? Oh? That was a dreadful speech which you brought with you,
1:01:01
and you made me utter one as bad. How so it was foolish,
1:01:09
I say, to a certain extent impious. Can anything be more dreadful?
1:01:19
Nothing? If the speech was really such as you describe, well, and
1:01:24
is not Eros, the son of Aphrodite and a god, so men say,
1:01:32
But that was not acknowledged by Lucias in his speech, nor by you
1:01:38
in that other speech which you buy A charm drew from my lips. For
1:01:45
if love be as he surely is a divinity, he cannot be evil.
1:01:52
Yet this was the error of both the speeches. There was also a simplicity
1:02:00
about them which was refreshing, Having no truth or honesty in them. Nevertheless,
1:02:07
they pretended to be something, hoping to succeed in deceiving the Mannikins of
1:02:15
Earth, and gained celebrity among them. Wherefore I must have a purgation,
1:02:24
and I bethink me of an ancient purgation of mythological error, which was devised
1:02:32
not by Homer, for he never had the wit to discover why he was
1:02:38
blind, but by Stssicorus, who was a philosopher and knew the reason why.
1:02:45
And therefore when he lost his eyes, for that was the penalty which
1:02:52
was inflicted upon him for reviling the lovely Helen, he at once urg'd himself.
1:03:00
And the purgation was a recantation which began thus fal seies that word of
1:03:09
mine. The truth is that thou didst not embark in ships, nor ever
1:03:15
go to the walls of Troy. And when he had completed his poem,
1:03:22
which is called the recantation, immediately his sight return'd to him. Now I
1:03:31
will be wiser than either Stecchordus or Homer, in that I am going to
1:03:37
make my recantation for reviling love before I suffer. And this I will attempt,
1:03:45
not as before veil'd and ashamed, but with forehead bold and bear nothing
1:03:55
could be more agreeable to me than to hear you say so. Only think,
1:04:01
my good fidrous, what an utter want of delicacy was shown in the
1:04:06
two discourses, I mean, in my own and in that which you recited
1:04:13
out of the book. Would not any one who was himself of a noble
1:04:17
and gentle nature, and who loved, or ever had lov'd a nature like
1:04:25
his own? When we tell of the petty causes of lovers jealousies, and
1:04:30
of their exceeding animosities, and of the injuries which they do to their beloved,
1:04:39
have imagin'd that our ideas of love were taken from some haunt of sailors,
1:04:46
to which good manners were unknown. He would certainly never have admitted the
1:04:53
justice of our censure. I dare say not, Socrates. Therefore, because
1:05:01
I blush at the thought of this person, and also because I am afraid
1:05:08
of love himself, I desire to wash the brine out of my ears with
1:05:15
water from the spring. And I would counsel Lucius not to delay, but
1:05:20
to write another discourse which shall prove that cateris paribus the lover ought to be
1:05:29
accepted, rather than the non lover be assured that he shall. You shall
1:05:36
speak the praises of the lover, and Lucius shall be compelled by me to
1:05:42
write another discourse on the same theme. You will be true to your nature
1:05:49
in that, And therefore I believe you speak and fear not. Ah.
1:05:59
But where is a fair youth whom I was addressing before, and who ought
1:06:03
to listen now, lest if he hear me not he should accept a non
1:06:10
lover before he knows what he is doing. Ha ha. He is close
1:06:15
at hand and always at your service. Knew, then, fair youth,
1:06:21
that the former discourse was the word of Phydrus, the son of vain Man,
1:06:29
who dwells in the city of Mirhina Mirchinosius. And this which I am
1:06:34
about to utter is the recantation of Stesichorus, the son of godly man O
1:06:43
Femos, who comes from the town of desire Chimera, and is to the
1:06:49
following effect. I told a lie when I said that the beloved ought to
1:06:57
accept the non lover when he might have the lover, because the one is
1:07:03
sane and the other mad. It might be so if madness were simply an
1:07:11
evil. But there is also a madness, which is a divine gift and
1:07:16
the source of the chiefest blessings granted to man. For prophecy is a madness,
1:07:26
and the prophetess at Delphi and the priestesses at Dodona, when out of
1:07:30
their senses, have conferred great benefits on Hellas, both in public and private
1:07:39
life, but when in their senses few or none. And I might also
1:07:45
tell you how the sibyl and other inspired persons have given to many an one
1:07:53
many an intimation of the future, which has saved them from falling. But
1:08:00
it would be tedious to speak of what everyone knows. There will be more
1:08:04
reason in appealing to the ancient inventors of names, who would never have connected
1:08:13
prophecy mantique, which foretells the future and is the noblest of arts, with
1:08:20
madness manique, or called them both by the same name if they had deemed
1:08:28
madness to be a disgrace or dishonor they must have thought that there was an
1:08:34
inspired madness which was a noble thing. For the two words manti que and
1:08:43
manique are really the same, and the letter tao is only a modern and
1:08:48
tasteless insertion. And this is confirmed by the name which was given by them
1:08:56
to the rational investigation of futunety, whether made by the help of birds or
1:09:02
of other signs. This for as much as it is an art which supplies
1:09:09
from the reasoning faculty, mind, nose, and information historia to human thought.
1:09:18
O. Yesis they originally termed or your noistic, But the word has
1:09:26
been lately altered and made sonorous by the modern introduction of the letter omega or
1:09:34
your noistic and our nistic. And in proportion, as prophecy mantique, is
1:09:44
more perfect and august than Augury, both in name and fact. In the
1:09:50
same proportion as the ancients testify, is madness superior to a sane mind suffrosine,
1:10:01
for the one is only of human but the other of divine origin.
1:10:08
Again, where plagues and mightiest woes have bred in certain families owing to some
1:10:15
ancient blood guiltiness, their madness has enter'd with holy prayers and rites, and
1:10:25
by inspired utterances found a way of deliverance for those who are in need.
1:10:31
And he who has part in this gift, and is truly possess'd and duly
1:10:38
out of his mind, is, by the use of purifications and mysteries,
1:10:44
made whole and exempt from evil future as well as present, and has a
1:10:50
release from the calamity which was afflicting him. The third kind is the madness
1:11:00
of those who are possessed by the muses, which, taking hold of a
1:11:04
delicate and virgin soul and their inspiring frenzy, awakens lyrical and all other numbers,
1:11:15
with these adorning the myriad actions of ancient heroes for the instruction of posterity.
1:11:26
But he who, having no touch of the muses madness in his soul,
1:11:31
comes to the door and thinks that he will get into the temple by
1:11:36
the help of art. He I say, and his poetry are not admitted.
1:11:45
The sane man disappears and is nowhere when he enters into rivalry with the
1:11:51
madman end of section five seeks. Now I might tell of many other noble
1:12:05
deeds which have sprung from inspired madness. And therefore let no one frighten or
1:12:15
flutter us by saying that the temperate friend is to be chosen rather than the
1:12:21
inspired. But let him further show that love is not sent by the gods
1:12:29
for any good to lover or beloved. If he can do so, we
1:12:34
will allow him to carry off the palm, and we on our part,
1:12:42
will prove in answer to him that the madness of love is the greatest of
1:12:47
Heaven's blessings. And the proof shall be one which the wise will receive and
1:12:56
the witling disbelieve. But of all, let us view the affections and actions
1:13:03
of the soul, divine and human, and try to ascertain the truth about
1:13:11
them. The beginning of our proof is as follows. The soul through all
1:13:18
her being, is immortal. For that which is ever in motion is immortal.
1:13:26
But that which moves another and is moved by another, in ceasing to
1:13:32
move, ceases also to live. Only the self moving, never leaving self,
1:13:41
never ceases to move, and is the fountain and beginning of motion to
1:13:46
all that moves. Besides, now, the beginning is unbegotten, for that
1:13:55
which is begotten has a beginning. But the beginning is begotten of nothing.
1:14:01
For if it were begotten of something, then the begotten would not come from
1:14:08
a beginning. But if unbegotten, it must also be indestructible, for if
1:14:16
beginning were destroyed, there could be no beginning out of anything, nor anything
1:14:24
out of a beginning. And all things must have a beginning. And therefore
1:14:31
the self moving is the beginning of motion, and this can neither be destroyed
1:14:40
nor begotten. Else the whole heavens and all creation would collapse and stand still,
1:14:47
and never again have motion or birth. But if the self moving is
1:14:55
proved to be immortal, he who affirms that so motion is the very idea
1:15:01
and essence of the soul will not be put to confusion. For the body
1:15:09
which is moved from without is soul less, but that which is moved from
1:15:15
within has a soul. For such is the nature of the soul. But
1:15:21
if this be true, must not the soul be the self moving, and
1:15:28
therefore of necessity, unbegotten and immortal. Enough of the soul's immortality, of
1:15:39
the nature of the soul, though her true form be ever a theme of
1:15:45
large and more than mortal discourse. Let me speak briefly, and in a
1:15:51
figure, and let the figure be composite a pair of winged horses and a
1:15:59
chariot. Now, the winged horses and the charioteers of the gods are all
1:16:06
of them noble and of noble descent, but those of other races are mixed.
1:16:15
The human charioteer drives his in a pair, and one of them is
1:16:20
noble and of noble breed, and the other is ignoble and of ignoble breed,
1:16:29
And the driving of them of necessity gives a great deal of trouble to
1:16:34
him. I will endeavor to explain to you in what way the mortal differs
1:16:42
from the immortal creature. The soul, in her totality, has the care
1:16:48
of inanimate being everywhere, and traverses the whole heaven in diverse forms, appearing
1:16:59
when perfect and fully winged, she soars upward and orders the whole world,
1:17:08
whereas the imperfect soul, losing her wings and drooping in her flight, at
1:17:15
last settles on the solid ground. There, finding a home. She receives
1:17:21
an earthly frame which appears to be self moved, but is really moved by
1:17:29
her power. And this composition of soul and body is called a living and
1:17:36
mortal creature. For immortal, no such union can be reasonably believed to be.
1:17:45
Although fancy, not having seen nor surely known the nature of God,
1:17:53
may imagine an immortal creature having both a body and also a soul, which
1:18:00
united throughout all time. Let that, however, be as God wills,
1:18:05
and be spoken of acceptably to him. And now let us ask the reason
1:18:14
why the soul loses her wings. The wing is the corporeal element which is
1:18:20
most akin to the divine, and which by nature tends to soar aloft and
1:18:29
carry that which gravitates downwards into the upper region, which is the habitation of
1:18:35
the gods. The divine is beauty, wisdom, goodness, and the like,
1:18:44
And by these the wing of the soul is nourish'd and grows apace.
1:18:49
But when fed upon evil and foulness and the opposite of good, waste and
1:18:57
falls away. Zeus, the mighty Lord, holding the reins of a winged
1:19:04
chariot, leads the way in heav'n, ordering all and taking care of all.
1:19:11
And there follows him the array of gods and demi gods marshal'd in eleven
1:19:18
bands. Hestia alone abides at home in the house of Heaven of the rest.
1:19:27
They who are reckon'd among the princely twelve march in their appointed order.
1:19:34
They see many blessed sights in the inner heaven, and there are many ways
1:19:42
to and fro along which the blessed gods are passing. Every one doing his
1:19:48
own work, he may follow who will and can for jealousy has no place
1:19:58
in the celestial choir. But when they go to banquet and festival, then
1:20:03
they move up the steep to the top of the vault of Heav'n. The
1:20:10
chariots of the gods, in even poise, obeying the rain, glide rapidly,
1:20:18
but the others labor for the vicious steed goes heavily, weighing down the
1:20:26
charioteer to the earth when his steed has not been thoroughly train'd. And this
1:20:32
is the hour of agony and extremest conflict for the soul. For the immortals,
1:20:41
when they are at the end of their course, go forth and stand
1:20:45
upon the outside of Heav'n, and the revolution of the spheres carries them round,
1:20:53
and they behold the things beyond, but of the heaven, which is
1:20:59
a the heavens. What earthly poet ever did, or ever will sing worthily,
1:21:08
it is such as I will describe, for I must dare to speak
1:21:14
the truth when truth is my theme. There abides the very being with which
1:21:21
true knowledge is concerned, the colorless, formless, intangible essence visible only to
1:21:32
mind, the pilot of the soul, the divine intelligence being nurtured upon mind
1:21:42
and pure knowledge, and the intelligence of every soul which is capable of receiving
1:21:47
the food proper to it. Rejoices at beholding reality, and once more gazing
1:21:57
upon truth, is plenished and made glad, until the revolution of the worldsprings
1:22:05
her round again to the same place. In the revolution she beholds justice and
1:22:15
temperance, and knowledge absolute, not in the form of generation or of relation,
1:22:24
which men call existence, but knowledge absolute in existence absolute, and beholding
1:22:33
the other true existences in like manner, and feasting upon them, she passes
1:22:42
down into the interior of the heavens and returns home. And there the charioteer,
1:22:50
putting up his horses at the stall, gives them ambrosia to eat and
1:22:57
nectar to drink. Such is the life of the gods, but of other
1:23:04
souls. That which follows God best and is likest to him lifts the head
1:23:12
of the charioteer into the outer world, and is carried round in the revolution,
1:23:19
troubl'd indeed by the steeds, and with difficulty beholding true being, while
1:23:28
another only rises and falls and sees, and again fails to see by reason
1:23:34
of the unruliness of the steeds. The rest of the souls are also longing
1:23:43
after the upper world, and they all follow, but not being strong enough,
1:23:48
they are carried round below the surface, plunging, treading on one another,
1:23:57
each striving to be first. And there is confusion and perspiration and the
1:24:03
extremity of effort, and many of them are lamed or have their wings broken
1:24:11
through the ill driving of the charioteers, and all of them, after a
1:24:16
fruitless toil, not having attained to the mysteries of true being, go away
1:24:25
and feed upon opinion. The reason why the souls exhibit this exceeding eagerness to
1:24:33
behold the plane of truth is that pasteurage is found there, which is suited
1:24:42
to the highest part of the soul, and the wing on which the soul
1:24:47
soars is nourished with this. And there is a law of destiny that the
1:24:55
soul which attains any vision of truth income with a God, is preserved from
1:25:02
harm until the next period, and if attaining always, is always unharmed.
1:25:13
But when she is unable to follow, and fails to behold the truth,
1:25:17
and through some ill hap sinks beneath the double load of forgetfulness and vice,
1:25:27
and her wings fall from her, and she drops to the ground. Then
1:25:32
the law ordains that this soul shall, at her first birth pass not into
1:25:40
any other animal, but only into man. And the soul which has seen
1:25:45
most of truth shall come to the birth as a philosopher or artist, or
1:25:53
some musical and loving nature. That which has seen truth in the second degree
1:26:00
shall be some righteous king or warrior chief. The soul which is of the
1:26:06
third class shall be a politician, or economist or trader. The fourth shall
1:26:15
be a lover of gymnastic toils or a physician. The fifth shall lead the
1:26:21
life of a prophet or hierophant. To the sixth the character of poet or
1:26:30
some other imitative artist will be assign'd, to the seventh the life of an
1:26:36
artisan or husbandman, to the eighth that of a sophist or demagogue, to
1:26:45
the ninth that of a tyrant. All these are states of probation, in
1:26:54
which he who does righteously improves, and he who does unripe righteously deteriorates his
1:27:01
lot. Ten thousand years must elapse before the soul of each one can return
1:27:13
to the place from whence she came, for she cannot grow her wings in
1:27:18
less. Only the soul of a philosopher guileless and true, or the soul
1:27:26
of a lover who is not devoid of philosophy, may acquire wings in the
1:27:31
third of the recurring periods of a thousand years. He is distinguished from the
1:27:39
ordinary good man, who gains wings in three thousand years. And they who
1:27:45
choose this life three times in succession have wings given them and go away at
1:27:54
the end of three thousand years. But the others. The philosopher alone is
1:28:01
not subject to judgment creasis, for he has never lost the vision of truth.
1:28:09
Receive judgment when they have completed their first life, and after the judgment
1:28:15
they go, some of them to the houses of correction, which are under
1:28:20
the earth, and are punish'd, others to some place in heaven, whither
1:28:27
they are likely borne by justice, and there they live in a manner worthy
1:28:33
of the life which they lead here. When in the form of men,
1:28:40
and at the end of the first thousand years, the good souls and also
1:28:45
the evil souls both come to draw lots and choose their second life, and
1:28:55
they may take any which they please. The soul of a man may pass
1:29:00
into the life of a beast, or from the beast return again into the
1:29:05
man. But the soul which has never seen the truth will not pass into
1:29:13
the human form. For a man must have intelligence of universals and be able
1:29:20
to proceed from the many particulars of sense to one conception of reason. This
1:29:30
is the recollection of those things which our soul once saw while following God,
1:29:38
when regardless of that which we now call being, she raised her head up
1:29:45
towards the true being. And therefore the mind of the philosopher alone has wings.
1:29:54
And this is just, for he is always, according to the measure
1:29:59
of his abilities, clinging in recollection to those things in which God abides,
1:30:08
and in beholding which he is what he is. And he who employs a
1:30:15
aright these memories is ever being initiated into perfect mysteries, and alone becomes truly
1:30:27
perfect. But as he forgets earthly interests and is wrapped in the divine,
1:30:34
the vulgar deem him mad and rebuke him. They do not see that he
1:30:44
is inspired. End of Section six, Section seven. Thus far I have
1:30:57
been speaking of the fourth and love last kind of madness, which is imputed
1:31:03
to him who, when he sees the beauty of earth, is transported with
1:31:10
the recollection of the true beauty. He would like to fly away, but
1:31:16
he cannot. He is like a bird, fluttering and looking upward, and
1:31:23
careless of the world below. And he is therefore thought to be mad.
1:31:31
And I have shown this of all inspirations to be the noblest and highest,
1:31:39
and the offspring of the highest, to him who has or shares in it.
1:31:45
And that he who loves the beautiful is called a lover, because he
1:31:51
partakes of it. For as has been already said, every soul of man
1:31:59
has, in the way of nature beheld true being. This was the condition
1:32:05
of her passing into the form of man. But all souls do not easily
1:32:13
recall the things of the other world. They may have seen them for a
1:32:17
short time only, or they may have been unfortunate in their earthly lot,
1:32:26
and having had their hearts turned to unrighteousness through some corrupting influence, they may
1:32:33
have lost the memory of the holy things which once they saw. Few only
1:32:42
retain an adequate remembrance of them. And they, when they behold here any
1:32:49
image of that other world, are rapt in amazement. But they are ignorant
1:32:58
of what this rapture means, because they do not clearly perceive. For there
1:33:05
is no light of justice, or temperance, or any of the higher ideas
1:33:12
which are precious to souls. In the earthly copies of them, they are
1:33:18
seen through a glass dimly, and there are few who, going to the
1:33:27
images behold in them the realities, and these only with difficulty. There was
1:33:35
a time when, with the rest of the happy band, they saw beauty
1:33:42
shining in brightness, we philosophers, following in the train of Zeus others,
1:33:49
in company with other gods. And then we beheld the beatific vision, and
1:33:59
where initiated into a mystery which may be truly called most bless it celebrated by
1:34:08
us in our state of innocence, before we had any experience of evils to
1:34:15
come, when we were admitted to the sight of apparitions, innocent and simple
1:34:23
and calm and happy, which we beheld shining in pure light, pure ourselves,
1:34:32
and not yet enshrined in that living tomb which we carry about. Now
1:34:41
that we are imprisoned in the body like an oyster in his shell, let
1:34:48
me linger over the memory of scenes which have passed away. Ah, But
1:34:58
of Beauty, I repeat again that we saw her there, shining in company
1:35:04
with the celestial forms, and coming to earth. We find her here too,
1:35:12
shining in clearness through the clearest aperture of sense. For sight is the
1:35:19
most piercing of our bodily senses, though not by that is wisdom seen.
1:35:28
Her loveliness would have been transporting if there had been a visible image of her,
1:35:36
and the other ideas, if they had visible counterparts, would be equally
1:35:43
lovely. But this is the privilege of beauty, that being the loveliest,
1:35:49
she is also the most palpable to sight. Now, he who is not
1:35:57
newly initiated, or who has become corrupted, does not easily rise out of
1:36:03
this world to the sight of true beauty in the other. He looks only
1:36:11
at her earthly namesake, and instead of being awed at the sight of her,
1:36:17
he is given over to pleasure, and like a brutish beast, he
1:36:24
rushes on to enjoy and beget. He consorts with wantonness, and is not
1:36:31
afraid or ashamed of pursuing pleasure in violation of nature. But he whose initiation
1:36:42
is recent, and who has been the spectator of many glories in the other
1:36:47
world, is amazed when he sees anyone having a godlike face or form,
1:36:56
which is the expression of divine beauty, And at first a shudder runs through
1:37:03
him, and again the old owe steals over him. Then, looking upon
1:37:12
the face of his beloved as of a god, he reverences him, And
1:37:18
if he were not afraid of being thought a downright madman, he would sacrifice
1:37:26
to his beloved as to the image of a god. Then while he gazes
1:37:32
on him, there is a sort of reaction, and the shudder passes into
1:37:39
an unusual heat and perspiration. For as he receives the effluence of beauty through
1:37:47
the eyes, the wing moistens and he warms. And as he warms,
1:37:58
the parts out of which the wing grew, and which had been hitherto closed
1:38:02
and rigid, and had prevented the wing from shooting forth un melted, And
1:38:12
as nourishment streams upon him, the lower end of the wing begins to swell
1:38:19
and grow from the root upputs, and the growth extends under the whole soul.
1:38:29
For once the whole was winged. During this process, the whole soul
1:38:36
is all in a state of ebullition and effervescence, which may be compared to
1:38:45
the irritation and uneasiness in the gums at the time of cutting teeth. Bubbles
1:38:51
up and has a feeling of uneasiness and tickling. But when in like mins
1:39:00
manner the soul is beginning to grow wings, the beauty of the beloved meets
1:39:06
her eye, and she receives the sensible, warm motion of particles which flow
1:39:15
towards her, therefore called emotion chimeros, and is refreshed and warmed by them.
1:39:26
And then she ceases from her pain with joy. But when she is
1:39:32
parted from her beloved and her moisture fails, then the orifices of the passage
1:39:41
out of which the wing shoots, dry up and close and intercept the germ
1:39:49
of the wing, which, being shut up, with the emotion throbbing,
1:39:56
as with the pulsations of an artery, pricks the aperture which is nearest,
1:40:02
until at length the entire soul is pierced and maddened and pained, and at
1:40:10
the recollection of beauty, is again delighted. And from both of them together
1:40:18
the soul is oppress'd at the strangeness of her condition, and is in a
1:40:26
great strait and excitement, and in her madness can neither sleep by night,
1:40:33
nor abide in her place by day, And wherever she thinks that she will
1:40:41
behold the beautiful one. Thither in her desire she runs, And when she
1:40:48
has seen him and bathed herself in the waters of beauty, her constraint is
1:40:56
loosened, and she is refreshed and has no more pangs and pains. And
1:41:04
this is the sweetest of all pleasures at the time, and is the reason
1:41:11
why the soul of the lover will never forsake his beautiful one, whom he
1:41:18
esteems above all. He has forgotten mother, and brethren and companions, and
1:41:27
he thinks nothing of the neglect and loss of his property. The rules and
1:41:32
proprieties of life on which he formerly prided himself. He now despises, and
1:41:42
is ready to sleep like a servant wherever he is allowed, as near as
1:41:47
he can to his desired one who is the object of his worship, and
1:41:55
the physician who can alone assuage the greatness of his pain. Oh, and
1:42:04
this state, my dear imaginary youth, to whom I am talking, is
1:42:12
by men called love, and among the gods has a name at which you,
1:42:18
in your simplicity, may be inclined to mark. There are two lines
1:42:26
in the apocryphal writings of Homer in which the name occurs. One of them
1:42:31
is rather outrageous and not altogether metrical. They are as follows. Mortals call
1:42:42
him fluttering Love, but the immortals call him winged one, because the growing
1:42:49
of wings, or reading pterothoiton the movement of wings is a necessity to him.
1:43:00
You may believe this, but not unless you like at any rate.
1:43:06
The loves of lovers and their causes are such as I have describ'd now.
1:43:15
The lover who is taken to be the attendant of Zeus is better able to
1:43:20
bear the winged God, and can endure a heavier burden. But the attendants
1:43:28
and companions of aries, when under the influence of love, if they fancy
1:43:34
that they have been at all wronged, are ready to kill and put an
1:43:40
end to themselves and their belove. It. And he who follows in the
1:43:45
train of any other God, while he is unspoiled and the impression lasts,
1:43:53
honors and imitates him as far as he is able, and after the manner
1:43:59
of his God, he behaves in his intercourse with his beloved and with the
1:44:04
rest of the world. During the first period of his earthly existence. Everyone
1:44:13
chooses his love from the ranks of beauty according to his character, and this
1:44:19
he makes his god and fashions and adorns as a sort of image which he
1:44:27
is to fall down and worship. The followers of Zeus desire that their beloved
1:44:33
should have a soul like him, and therefore they seek out someone of a
1:44:41
philosophical and imperial nature. And when they have found him and loved him,
1:44:47
they do all they can to confirm such a nature in him. And if
1:44:53
they have no experience of such a disposition, here the too they learn of
1:45:00
anyone who can teach them, and themselves follow in the same way. And
1:45:06
they have the less difficulty in finding the nature of their own God in themselves.
1:45:13
Because they have been compelled to gaze intensely on him, their recollection clings
1:45:20
to him, and they become possessed of him and receive from him their character
1:45:28
and disposition. So far as man can participate in God. The qualities of
1:45:36
their God they attribute to the beloved, wherefore they love him all the more.
1:45:45
And if, like the backic nymphs, they draw inspiration from Zeus,
1:45:50
they pour out their own fountain upon him, wanting to make him as like
1:45:57
as possible to their own God. But those who are the followers of Hero
1:46:04
seek a royal love, and when they have found him, they do just
1:46:10
the same with him. And in like manner, the followers of Apollo and
1:46:15
of every other God, walking in the ways of their God, seek a
1:46:20
love who is to be made like him whom they serve, And when they
1:46:27
have found him, they themselves imitate their God and persuade their love to do
1:46:33
the same, and educate him into the manner and nature of the God,
1:46:40
as far as they each can. For no feelings of envy or jealousy are
1:46:47
entertain'd by them towards their beloved, but they do their utmost to create in
1:46:54
him the greatest likeness of themselves and of the God whom they honor. Thus,
1:47:03
fair and blissful to the beloved is the desire of the inspired lover,
1:47:11
and the initiation of which I speak into the mysteries of true love. If
1:47:17
he be captured by the lover, and their purpose is effected. Now the
1:47:26
beloved is taken captive in the following manner. As I said at the beginning
1:47:33
of this tale, I divided each soul into three, two horses and a
1:47:40
charioteer. And one of the horses was good, and the other bad.
1:47:46
The division may remain, but I have not yet explained in what the goodness
1:47:53
or badness of either consists, and to that I will now proceed. The
1:48:00
right hand horse is upright and cleanly made. He has a lofty neck and
1:48:06
an aquiline nose. His color is white and his eyes dark. He is
1:48:14
a lover of honor and modesty and temperance, and the follower of true glory.
1:48:21
He needs no touch of the whip, but is guided by word and
1:48:28
admonition only. The other is a crooked, lumbering animal put together anyhow.
1:48:36
He has a short, thick neck. He is flat faced and of a
1:48:42
dark color, with gray eyes and blood red complexion. The mate of insolence
1:48:50
and pride, shagg eared and deaf, hardly yielding to whip and spur.
1:49:00
Now, when the charioteer beholds the vision of love, and has his whole
1:49:06
soul warmed through sense, and is full of the prickings and ticklings of desire,
1:49:15
the obedient steed, then, as always under the government of shame,
1:49:20
refrains from leaping on the beloved. But the other, heedless of the pricks
1:49:29
and of the blows of the whip, plunges and runs away, giving all
1:49:34
manner of trouble to his companion and the charioteer, whom he forces to approach
1:49:42
the beloved and to remember the joys of love. They yet first indignantly oppose
1:49:50
him, and will not be urged on to do terrible and unlawful deeds.
1:49:57
But at last, when he perceives wrists in plaguing them, they yield and
1:50:02
agree to do as he bids them. And now they are at the spot
1:50:09
and behold the flashing beauty of the beloved, which, when the charioteer sees,
1:50:16
his memory is carried to the true beauty, whom he beholds in company
1:50:24
with modesty, like an image placed upon a holy pedestal. He sees her,
1:50:31
but is afraid, and falls backwards in adoration, and by his fall
1:50:39
is compell'd to pull back the reins with such violence as to bring both the
1:50:45
steeds on their haunches, the one willing and unresisting, the unruly one very
1:50:55
unwilling. And when they have gone back a little, the one is overcome
1:51:01
with shame and wonder, and his whole soul is bathed in perspiration. The
1:51:10
other, when the pain is over, which the bridle and the fall had
1:51:15
given him, having with difficulty taken breath, is full of wrath and reproaches,
1:51:23
which he heaps upon the charioteer and his fellow steed for want of courage
1:51:30
and manhood, declaring that they have been false to their agreement and guilty of
1:51:35
desertion. Again they refuse, and again he urges them on and will scarce
1:51:44
yield to their prayer that he would wait until another time. When the appointed
1:51:51
hour comes, they make as if they had forgotten, and he reminds them,
1:52:00
biting and neighing and dragging them on, until at length he, on
1:52:04
the same thoughts intent, forces them to draw near again, And when they
1:52:12
are near, he stoops his head and puts up his tail, and takes
1:52:18
the bit in his teeth and pulls shamelessly. Then the charioteer is worse off
1:52:27
than ever. He falls back like a racer at the barrier, and with
1:52:31
a still more violent wrench, drags the bit out of the teeth of the
1:52:38
wild steed and covers his abusive tongue and jaws with blood, and forces his
1:52:46
legs and haunches to the ground, and punishes him sorely. And when this
1:52:54
has happened, several times, and the villain has ceased from his wanton way.
1:53:00
He is tamed and humbled and follows the will of the charioteer, And
1:53:08
when he sees the beautiful one, he is ready to die of fear.
1:53:15
And from that time forward, the soul of the lover follows the beloved in
1:53:23
modesty and holy fear. End of section seven, Section eight. And so
1:53:35
the beloved, who like a god, has received every true and loyal service
1:53:43
from his lover, not in pretense but in reality, being also himself of
1:53:50
a nature friendly to his admirer. If in former days he has blushed to
1:53:58
own his passion and turned away from his lover because his youthful companions or others
1:54:05
slanderously told him that he would be disgraced. Now, as years advance,
1:54:13
at the appointed age and time is led to receive him into communion, for
1:54:20
fate, which has ordained that there shall be no friendship among the evil,
1:54:28
has also ordained that there shall ever be friendship among the good and the beloved.
1:54:34
When he has received him into communion and intimacy, is quite amazed at
1:54:42
the good will of the lover. He recognizes that the inspired friend is worth
1:54:49
all other friends. Or kinsmen, they have nothing of friendship in them worthy
1:54:57
to be compared with his. And when this feeling continues, and he is
1:55:03
nearer to him and embraces him in gymnastic exercises and at other times of meeting,
1:55:13
then the fountain of that stream which Zeus when he was in love with
1:55:18
Ganymede named desire, overflows upon the lover, and some enters into his soul,
1:55:29
and some, when he is filled, flows out again. And as
1:55:33
a breeze or an echo, rebounds from the smooth rocks and returns whence it
1:55:41
came. So does the stream of beauty, passing through the eyes, which
1:55:46
are the windows of the soul, come back to the beautiful one, there,
1:55:54
arriving and quickening the passages of the wings, watering them and inclining them
1:56:00
to grow, and filling the soul of the beloved also with love. And
1:56:09
thus he loves. But he knows not what he does not understand, and
1:56:15
cannot explain his own state. He appears to have caught the infection of blindness
1:56:24
from another. The lover is his mirror in whom he is beholding himself,
1:56:30
but he is not aware of this. When he is with the lover,
1:56:35
both cease from their pain. But when he is away, then he longs
1:56:44
as he is longed for, and has love's image, love for love,
1:56:51
and terrous lodging in his breast, which he calls and believes to be not
1:56:59
love but friendship only. And his desire is as the desire of the other,
1:57:05
but weaker. He wants to see him, touch him, kiss him,
1:57:13
embrace him, and probably not long afterwards, his desire is accomplished.
1:57:20
When they meet, the wanton steed of the lover has a word to say
1:57:27
to the charioteer. He would like to have a little pleasure in return for
1:57:32
many pains. But the wanton steed of the beloved says not a word,
1:57:40
for he is bursting with passion which he understands not. He throws his arms
1:57:47
round the lover and embraces him as his dearest friend, And when they are
1:57:54
side by side, he is not in a state in which he can refuse
1:57:59
the lover anything if he ask him, although his fellow steed and the charioteer
1:58:06
oppose him with the arguments of shame and reason. After this, their happiness
1:58:15
depends upon their self control. If the better elements of the mind, which
1:58:21
lead to order and philosophy prevail. Then they pass their life here in happiness
1:58:30
and harmony, masters of themselves and orderly, enslaving the vicious and emancipating the
1:58:39
virtuous elements of the soul. And when the end comes, they are light
1:58:46
and winged for flight, having conquered in one of the three heavenly or truly
1:58:55
Olympian victories. Nor can human discipline or divine inspiration confer any greater blessing on
1:59:05
man than this. If, on the other hand, they leave philosophy and
1:59:13
lead the lower life of ambition, then probably after wine or in some other
1:59:19
careless hour, the two wanton animals take the two souls when of their God,
1:59:28
and bring them together, and they accomplish that desire of their hearts,
1:59:33
which to the many is bliss. And this, having once enjoyed, they
1:59:41
continue to enjoy, yet rarely, because they have not the approval of the
1:59:47
whole soul. They too are dear, but not so dear to one another
1:59:55
as the others. Either at the time of their love or afterwards. They
2:00:00
consider that they have given and taken from each other the most sacred pledges,
2:00:08
and they may not break them and fall into enmity. At last, they
2:00:15
pass out of the body, unwinged, but eager to soar, and thus
2:00:21
obtain no mean reward of love and madness. For those who have once begun
2:00:29
the heavenward pilgrimage may not go down again to darkness and the journey beneath the
2:00:35
earth. But they live in light, always happy companions in their pilgrimage,
2:00:44
And when the time comes at which they receive their wings, they have the
2:00:49
same plumage because of their love. Thus great are the heavenly blessings which the
2:00:59
friendship are the lover will confer upon you, my youth, whereas the attachment
2:01:05
of the non lover, which is alloyed with a worldly prudence and has worldly
2:01:13
and niggardly ways of doling out benefits, will breed in your soul those vulgar
2:01:20
qualities which the populace applaud will send you bowling round the earth during a period
2:01:28
of nine thousand years, and leave you a fool in the world below.
2:01:36
And thus, dear Eeros, I have made and paid my recantation as well
2:01:45
and as fairly as I could, more, especially in the matter of the
2:01:49
poetical figures which I was compelled to use, because fidrous would have them.
2:01:59
And now forgive the past and accept the present, and be gracious and merciful
2:02:06
to me. And do not, in thine anger deprive me of sight or
2:02:13
take from me the art of love which thou hast given me, But grant
2:02:18
that I may be yet more esteem'd in the eyes of the fair. And
2:02:25
if Phidraus or myself said anything rude in our first speeches, blame Melusias,
2:02:32
who is the father of the brat, and let us have no more of
2:02:39
his progeny. Bid him study philosophy like his brother Polymarchus, and then his
2:02:46
lover Phidrus, will no longer halt between two opinions, but will dedicate himself
2:02:56
wholly to love and to philosophical discourses. I join in the prayer, Socrates,
2:03:05
and say with you, if this be for my good, may your
2:03:10
words come to pass. But why did you make your second oration so much
2:03:16
finer than the first? I wonder why? And I begin to be afraid
2:03:24
that I shall lose conceit of luciass and that he will appear tame in comparison,
2:03:30
even if he be willing to put another as fine and as long as
2:03:35
yours into the field which I doubt, for quite lately one of your politicians
2:03:44
was abusing him on this very account, and called him a speech writer again
2:03:50
and again, so that a feeling of pride may probably induce him to give
2:03:57
up writing speeches. What a very amusing notion. But I think, my
2:04:05
young man, that you are much mistaken in your friend, if you imagine
2:04:12
that he is frightened at a little noise, and possibly you think that his
2:04:16
assailant was in earnest. I thought Socrates that he was. And you are
2:04:24
aware that the greatest and most influential statesmen are ashamed of writing speeches and leaving
2:04:32
them in a written form, lest they should be called sophists by posterity.
2:04:40
You seem to be unconscious, Vitress, that the sweet elbow of the proverb
2:04:47
is really the long arm of the nile. Translator's footnote. A proverb like
2:04:56
the grapes are sour, applied to pleasures which cannot be had, meaning sweet
2:05:02
things, which, like the elbow, are out of the reach of the
2:05:06
mouth. The promised pleasure turns out to be a long and tedious affair.
2:05:15
And you appear to be equally unaware of the fact that this sweet elbow of
2:05:20
theirs is also a long arm. For there is nothing of which our great
2:05:27
politicians are so fond as of writing speeches and bequeathing them to posterity. And
2:05:35
they add their admirer's names at the top of the writing out of gratitude to
2:05:43
them. What do you mean I do not understand? Why do you not
2:05:48
know that when a politician writes, he begins with the names of his approvers.
2:05:56
How so why he begins in this manner? Be it enacted by the
2:06:03
Senate, the people, or both on the motion of a certain person who
2:06:11
is our author? And so, putting on a serious face, he proceeds
2:06:16
to display his own wisdom to his admirers in what is often a long and
2:06:24
tedious composition. Now, what is that sort of thing but a regular piece
2:06:30
of authorship. True, And if the law is finally approv'd, then the
2:06:38
author leaves the theater in high delight. But if the law is rejected,
2:06:45
and he is done out of his speech making and not thought good enough to
2:06:49
write, then he and his party are in mourning. Very true, so
2:06:59
far are they from despising or rather, so highly do they value the practice
2:07:04
of writing? No doubt? And when the king or orator has the power,
2:07:14
as Lycurgus or Solon or Darius had, of attaining an immortality or authorship
2:07:21
in a state. Is he not thought by posterity when they see his compositions?
2:07:29
And does he not think himself, while he is yet alive, to
2:07:33
be a god? Very true? Then do you think that any one of
2:07:40
this class, however ill disposed, would reproach Lysias with being an author?
2:07:48
Not upon your view, for according to you, he would be casting a
2:07:54
slur on his own favorite pursuit. HM. One may see that there is
2:08:01
no disgrace in the mere fact of writing, certainly not. The disgrace begins
2:08:09
when a man writes not well but badly, clearly, and what is well
2:08:18
and what is badly? Need we ask Lucias or any other poet or orator,
2:08:26
who ever wrote or will write, either a political or any other work
2:08:31
in meter or out of meter, poet or prose writer, to teach us
2:08:39
this need we for what should a man live if not for the pleasures of
2:08:46
discourse? Surely not for the sake of bodily pleasures, which almost always have
2:08:52
previous pain as a condition of them, and therefore are rightly called slavey wish
2:09:01
there is time enough. And I believe that the grasshoppers, chirruping after their
2:09:09
manner, in the heat of the sun over our heads, are talking to
2:09:13
one another and looking down at us. What would they say if they saw
2:09:20
that, we, like the many, are not conversing, but slumbering at
2:09:26
mid day, lull'd by their voices, too indolent to think. Would they
2:09:35
not have the right to laugh at us? They might imagine that we were
2:09:41
slaves who coming to rest at a place of resort of theirs, like sheep
2:09:48
lie asleep at noon around the well. But if they see us discoursing and
2:09:56
like Odysseus, sailing past them, deaf to their siren voices, they may,
2:10:03
perhaps, out of respect, give us of the gifts which they receive
2:10:09
from the gods, that they may impart them to men. What gifts do
2:10:16
you mean? I never heard of any a lover of music like yourself.
2:10:22
Ought surely to have heard the story of the grasshoppers, who are said to
2:10:28
have been human beings in an age before the muses, And when the muses
2:10:35
came and song appear'd, they were ravished with delight and singing, always never
2:10:43
thought of eating and drinking, until at last in their forgetfulness, they died,
2:10:52
and now they live again in the grasshoppers. And this is the return
2:10:56
which the muses make to them. They neither hunger nor thirst, but from
2:11:03
the hour of their birth are always singing, and never eating or drinking.
2:11:11
And when they die, they go and inform the muses in heaven who honors
2:11:16
them. On earth. They win the love of Tatsikore for the dancers by
2:11:24
their report of them, of Erato for the lovers, and of the other
2:11:30
muses for those who do them honor according to the several ways of honoring them,
2:11:35
of Calliope, the eldest muse, and of Urania, who is next
2:11:41
to her, or the philosophers, of whose music the grasshoppers may report to
2:11:48
them. For these are the muses who are chiefly concerned with heaven and thought
2:11:56
divine as well as human, and they have the sweetest utterance. For many
2:12:05
reasons. Then we ought always to talk and not to sleep at midday.
2:12:15
Let us talk. End of section eight, Section nine h. Shall we
2:12:26
discuss the rules of writing and speech as we were proposing, ah very good
2:12:35
in good speaking. Should not the mind of the speaker know the truth of
2:12:41
the matter about which he is going to speak. And yet, Socrates,
2:12:48
I have heard that he who would be an orator has nothing to do with
2:12:54
true justice, but only with that which is likely to be approved by the
2:13:00
many who sit in judgment, nor with the truly good or honorable, but
2:13:05
only with opinion about them, And that from opinion comes persuasion, and not
2:13:13
from the truth. The words of the wise are not to be set aside,
2:13:20
for there is probably something in them. And therefore the meaning of this
2:13:24
saying is not hastily to be dismissed. Very true, let us put the
2:13:33
matter thus. Suppose that I persuaded you to buy a horse and go to
2:13:39
the wars. Neither of us knew what a horse was like, but I
2:13:46
knew that you believed a horse to be of tame animals, the one which
2:13:52
has the longest ears. That would be ridiculous. There is something more ridiculous
2:14:00
coming. Suppose further that in sober earnest I, having persuaded you of this,
2:14:09
went and composed a speech in honor of an ass whom I entitled a
2:14:16
horse beginning, a noble animal and a most useful possession, especially in war.
2:14:24
And you may get on his back and fight, and he will carry
2:14:30
baggage or anything, how ridiculous. Ridiculous, yes, but is not even
2:14:37
a ridiculous friend better than a cunning enemy. Certainly, and when the orator,
2:14:46
instead of putting an ass in the place of a horse, puts good
2:14:52
for evil, being himself as ignorant of their true nature as the city on
2:14:58
which which he imposes is ignorant, and having studied the notions of the multitude,
2:15:05
falsely persuades them not about the shadow of an ass, which he confounds
2:15:13
with a horse, but about good, which he confounds with evil. What
2:15:20
will be the harvest which rhetoric will be likely to gather after the sowing of
2:15:26
that seed the reverse of good? But perhaps rhetoric has been getting too roughly
2:15:35
handled by us, And she might answer, what amazing nonsense you are talking?
2:15:43
As if I forced any man to learn to speak in ignorance of the
2:15:48
truth, whatever my advice may be worth, I should have told him to
2:15:54
arrive at the truth first, and then come to me. At the same
2:16:01
time, I boldly assert that mere knowledge of the truth will not give you
2:16:07
the art of persuasion. There is reason in the lady's defense of herself.
2:16:15
Quite true, if only the other arguments, which remain to be brought up,
2:16:22
bear her witness that she is an art at all. But I seem
2:16:28
to hear them arraying themselves on the opposite side, declaring that she speaks falsely,
2:16:35
and that rhetoric is a mere routine and trick, not an art.
2:16:41
Lo a spartan appears and says that there never is, nor ever will be
2:16:48
a real art of speaking, which is divorced from the truth. And what
2:16:56
are these arguments? Socrates? Bring them out that we may examine them.
2:17:03
Come out, fair children, and convince Fidrus, who is the father of
2:17:09
similar beauties, that he will never be able to speak about anything as he
2:17:16
ought to speak unless he have a knowledge of philosophy. And let Fidraus answer
2:17:24
you put the question. Is not rhetoric taken generally a universal art of enchanting
2:17:35
the mind by arguments, which is practiced not only in courts and public assemblies,
2:17:43
but in private houses, also having to do with all matters great as
2:17:48
well as small, good and bad alike, and is in all equally right
2:17:54
and equally to be esteemed. That is what you have heard word Nay,
2:18:01
not exactly that I should say, Rather that I have heard the art confined
2:18:09
to speaking and writing in law suits and to speaking in public assemblies, not
2:18:16
extended farther. Then, I suppose that you have only heard of the rhetoric
2:18:22
of Nestor and Odysseus, which they compos'd in their leisure hours when at Troy,
2:18:31
and never of the rhetoric of pallor Medes, no more than of Nestor
2:18:37
and Odysseus, unless Gorgias is your Nestor, and Thrascimacus or Theodorus your Odysseus.
2:18:48
Perhaps that is my meaning. But let us leave them, and do
2:18:54
you tell me instead what our plaintive and defendant doing in a law court?
2:19:01
Are they not contending exactly so about the just and unjust that is the matter
2:19:09
in dispute? Yes, And a professor of the art will make the same
2:19:18
thing appear to the same persons to be at one time just at another time,
2:19:26
if he is so inclined to be unjust exactly, and when he speaks
2:19:33
in the assembly, he will make the same things seem good to the city
2:19:37
at one time, and at another time the reverse of good, that is
2:19:43
true. Have we not heard of the eleatic Palamedes Zeno, who has an
2:19:52
art of speaking, by which he makes the same things appear to his hearers
2:19:58
like anne and unlike one and many at rest and in motion. Very true.
2:20:09
The art of disputation, then, is not confined to the course and
2:20:15
the assembly, but is one and the same in every use of language.
2:20:20
This is the art, if there be such an art, which is able
2:20:26
to find a likeness of everything to which a likeness can be found, and
2:20:31
draws into the light of day the likenesses and disguises which are used by others.
2:20:41
How do you mean, let me put the matter thus, when will
2:20:46
there be more chance of deception when the difference is large or small? When
2:20:54
the difference is small, and you will be less likely to be discovered in
2:21:00
passing by degrees into the other extreme than when you go all at once.
2:21:07
Of course, he then, who would deceive others and not be deceiv'd,
2:21:16
must exactly know the real likenesses and differences of things. He must. And
2:21:24
if he is ignorant of the true nature of any subject, how can he
2:21:30
detect the greater or less degree of likeness in other things to that of which,
2:21:37
by the hypothesis he is ignorant? He cannot? And when men are
2:21:45
deceiv'd, and then notions are at variance with realities. It is clear that
2:21:50
the error slips in through resemblances. Yes, that is the way. Then
2:22:00
he who would be a master of the art must understand the real nature of
2:22:05
everything, or he will never know either how to make the gradual departure from
2:22:13
truth into the opposite of truth, which is effected by the help of resemblances,
2:22:20
or how to avoid it. He will not. He then, who,
2:22:26
being ignorant of the truth, aims at appearances, will only attain an
2:22:31
art of rhetoric which is ridiculous, and is not an art at all that
2:22:39
may be expected. Shall I propose that we look for examples of art and
2:22:48
want of art according to our notion of them, in the speech of Lucias
2:22:54
which you have in your hand, and in my own speech. Nothing could
2:23:00
be better. And indeed I think that our previous argument has been too abstract
2:23:07
and wanting in illustrations. Yes, and the two speeches happen to afford a
2:23:16
very good example of the way in which the speaker who knows the truth may,
2:23:22
without any serious purpose, steal away the hearts of his hearers. This
2:23:28
piece of good fortune I attribute to the local deities, and perhaps the prophets
2:23:37
of the muses who are singing over our heads may have imparted their inspiration to
2:23:45
me. For I do not imagine that I have any rhetorical art of my
2:23:50
own. Grantee, if you will only please to get on end of section
2:24:03
nine, Section ten, suppose that you read me the first words of Lucias's
2:24:11
speech. Hm. You know how matters stand with me, and how as
2:24:18
I conceive they might be arranged for our common interest. And I maintain that
2:24:26
I ought not to fail in my suit because I am not your lover.
2:24:33
For lovers repent enough. Now shall I point out the rhetorical error of those
2:24:41
words? Yes, everyone is aware that about some things we are agreed,
2:24:48
whereas about other things we differ. I think that I understand you, But
2:24:54
will you explain yourself. When any one speaks of iron and silver, is
2:25:03
not the same thing present in the minds of all, certainly, But when
2:25:09
anyone speaks of justice and goodness, we part company and are at odds with
2:25:16
one another and with ourselves. Precisely, then in some things we agree,
2:25:24
but not in others. That is true, in which are we more likely
2:25:30
to be deceived? And in which has rhetoric the greater power. Clearly in
2:25:37
the uncertain class, then the rhetorician ought to make a regular division and acquire
2:25:46
a distinct notion of both classes, as well of that in which the many
2:25:52
err as of that in which they do not err. He who made such
2:25:58
a distinction would have an excellent principle. Yes, And in the next place,
2:26:05
he must have a keen eye for the observation of particulars in speaking,
2:26:11
and must not make a mistake about the class to which they are to be
2:26:16
referred. Certainly, Now, to which class does love belong? To the
2:26:24
debatable or to the undisputed class? To the debatable? Clearly? For if
2:26:33
not, do you think that love would have allowed you to say, as
2:26:37
you did, that he is an evil both to the lover and the beloved,
2:26:43
and also the greatest possible good capital But will you tell me whether I
2:26:50
defined love at the beginning of my speech, For having been in an ecstasy,
2:26:58
I cannot well remember. Yes, indeed that you did, and no
2:27:05
mistake. Then I perceive that the nymphs of Achelous and Pan, the son
2:27:13
of Hermes, who inspired me, were far better rhetoricians than Lucias the son
2:27:20
of Caphelus Alas, how inferior to them he is. But perhaps I am
2:27:28
mistaken. And Lucias, at the commencement of his lover's speech, did insist
2:27:35
on our supposing love to be something or other which he fancied him to be.
2:27:43
And according to this model he fashioned and framed the remainder of his discourse.
2:27:50
Suppose we read his beginning over again, if you please, but you
2:27:56
will not find what you want read that I may have his exact words.
2:28:05
You know how matters stand with me, and how as I conceive they might
2:28:11
be arranged for our common interest. And I maintain I ought not to fail
2:28:18
in my suit, because I am not your lover. For lovers repent of
2:28:24
the kindnesses which they have shown when their love is over. Here he appears
2:28:31
to have done just the reverse of what he ought, for he has begun
2:28:37
at the end, and is swimming on his back through the flood to the
2:28:41
place of starting. His address to the fair youth begins where the lover would
2:28:50
have ended. Am I not right, sweet fibers, Yes, indeed,
2:28:56
Socrates, he does begin at the end. Then, as to the other
2:29:03
topics, are they not thrown down? Anyhow? Is there any principle in
2:29:09
them? Why should the next topic follow next in order, or any other
2:29:16
topic. I cannot help fancying in my ignorance that he wrote off boldly just
2:29:24
what came into his head. But I dare say that you would recognize a
2:29:31
rhetorical necessity in the succession of the several parts of the composition. You have
2:29:39
too good an opinion of me if you think that I have any such insight
2:29:45
into his principles of composition. At any rate, you will allow that every
2:29:52
discourse ought to be a living creature, having a body of its own and
2:29:58
a head and feet. There should be a middle, beginning and end adapted
2:30:05
to one another and to the whole. Certainly can this be said of the
2:30:11
discourse of Lucias? See whether you can find any more connection in his words
2:30:20
than in the epiaph, which is said by some to have been inscrib'd on
2:30:24
the grave of Midas the Phrygian. What is there remarkable in the epitaph?
2:30:31
It is as follows, I am a maiden of bronze, and lie on
2:30:39
the tomb of Midas, so long as water flows and tall trees grow,
2:30:46
so long here on this spot by his sad tomb, abiding, I shall
2:30:52
declare to pass us by that Midas sleeps below. Now in the rhyme,
2:31:01
whether a line comes first or comes last, as you will perceive, makes
2:31:07
no difference. You are making fun of that oration of ours. Well,
2:31:15
I will say no more about your friend's speech, lest I should give of
2:31:20
friends to you, although I think that it might furnish many other examples of
2:31:26
what a man ought rather to avoid. But I will proceed to the other
2:31:33
speech, which, as I think, is also suggestive to students of rhetoric
2:31:41
in what way. The two speeches, as you may remember, were unlike.
2:31:48
The one argued that the lover and the other that the non lover ought
2:31:54
to be accepted and right manfully should rather say madly and madness was the argument
2:32:05
of them. For as I said, love is a madness, yes,
2:32:11
and of madness there were two kinds, one produced by human infirmity. The
2:32:20
other was a divine release of the soul from the yoke of custom and convention.
2:32:28
True, the divine madness was subdivided into four kinds, prophetic, initiatory,
2:32:37
poetic, erotic, having four gods presiding over them. The first was
2:32:46
the inspiration of Apollo, the second that of Dionysus, the third that of
2:32:54
the Muses, the fourth that of Aphrodite and Eros. In the description of
2:33:01
the last kind of madness, which was also said to be the best,
2:33:07
we spoke of the affection of love in a figure into which we introduced a
2:33:15
tolerably credible and possibly true, though partly erring myth, which was also a
2:33:22
hymn in honor of love. Who is your Lord and also mine fightre Us
2:33:30
and the guardian of fair children? And to him we sung the hymn in
2:33:37
measured and solemn strain. I know that I had great pleasure in listening to
2:33:45
you. Let us take this instance and note how the transition was made from
2:33:50
blame to praise. What do you mean? I mean to say that the
2:33:58
composition was most playful. Yet in these chance fancies of the hour were involved
2:34:05
two principles of which we should be too glad to have a clearer description.
2:34:11
If art could give us one. What are they? First? The comprehension
2:34:20
of scattered particulars in one idea, as in our definition of love, which
2:34:26
whether true or false, certainly gave clearness and consistency to the discourse. The
2:34:33
speaker should define his several notions, and so make his meaning clear. What
2:34:41
is the other principal? Socrates? The second principle is that of division into
2:34:48
species according to the natural formation, where the joint is not breaking any part.
2:34:58
As a bad case carver might, just as our two discourses alike assumed,
2:35:05
first of all a single form of unreason, and then as the body,
2:35:13
which from being one becomes double, and may be divided into a left
2:35:18
side and right side, each having parts right and left of the same name.
2:35:26
After this manner, the speaker proceeded to divide the parts of the left
2:35:33
side, and did not desist until he found in them an evil or left
2:35:39
handed love, which he justly reviled, and the other discourse, leading us
2:35:46
to the madness which lay on the right side, found another love, also
2:35:52
having the same name, but divine, which the speaker held before us and
2:36:00
applauded and affirmed to be the author of the greatest benefits, most true.
2:36:07
I am myself a great lover of these processes of division and generalization. They
2:36:16
help me to speak and to think. And if I find any man who
2:36:22
is able to see one and many in nature him, I follow and walk
2:36:28
in his footsteps, as if he were a God and those who have this
2:36:35
art. I have hitherto been in the habit of calling dialecticians. But God
2:36:41
knows whether the name is right or not. And I should like to know
2:36:48
what name you would give to your or to Lucius's disciples, and whether this
2:36:54
may not be that famous art of rhetoric which Thrasimacus and others teach and practice.
2:37:03
Skillful speakers they are, and impart their skill to any who is willing
2:37:09
to make kings of them and to bring gifts to them. Yes, they
2:37:16
are royal men, but their art is not the same with the art of
2:37:22
those whom you call and rightly, in my opinion, dialecticians. Still we
2:37:30
are in the dark about rhetoric. What do you mean the remains of it?
2:37:35
If there be anything remaining which can be brought under the rules of art,
2:37:41
must be a fine thing, and at any rate is not to be
2:37:46
despised by you and me. But how much is left? There is a
2:37:54
great deal surely to be found in books of rhetoric. Yes, thank you
2:38:01
for reminding me. There is the exordium showing how the speech should begin.
2:38:09
If I remember rightly, that is what you mean, the niceties of the
2:38:15
art. Yes, then follows their statement of facts, and upon that witnesses,
2:38:24
thirdly proofs. Fourthly, probabilities are to come. The great Byzantian word
2:38:33
maker also speaks, if I am not mistaken of confirmation and further confirmation,
2:38:41
You mean the excellent Theodorus. Yes, and he tells how refutation or further
2:38:52
refutation is to be managed, whether in accusation or defense. I ought all
2:39:00
so to mention the illustrious Parian Evenus, who first invented insinuations and indirect praises,
2:39:11
and also indirect censures, which, according to some, he put into
2:39:18
verse to help the memory. But shall I, too dumb forgetfulness? Consign
2:39:26
Tissias and Gorgeoas, who are not ignorant that probability is superior to truth,
2:39:35
and who by force of argument, make the little appear great and the great
2:39:43
little disguise the new in old fashions and the old in new fashions, and
2:39:50
have discovered forms for everything, either short or going on to infinity. I
2:40:01
remember Prodicus laughing when I told him of this. He said that he had
2:40:07
himself discover'd the true rule of art, which was to be neither long nor
2:40:16
short, but of a convenient length. A well done Prodicus. Then there
2:40:26
is Hippias, the Alaan stranger, who probably agrees with him. Yes.
2:40:33
And there is also Polus, who has treasuries of diplesiology and gnomology and iconology,
2:40:45
and who teaches in them the names of which Lecumnius made him a present
2:40:52
they were to give a Polish had not Protagoras something of the same sort,
2:40:58
Yes, Yes, rules of correct diction, and many other fine precepts for
2:41:07
the sorrows of a poor old man or any other pathetic case. No one
2:41:13
is better than the Chalstedonian giant. He can put a whole company of people
2:41:20
into a passion and out of one again, by his mighty magic and his
2:41:26
first rate at inventing or disposing of any sort of calumny on any grounds or
2:41:35
none. All of them agree in asserting that a speech should end in a
2:41:41
recapitulation, though they do not all agree to use the same word. You
2:41:50
mean that there should be a summing up of the arguments in order to remind
2:41:54
the hearers of them. I have now said all that I have to say
2:42:01
of the art of rhetoric. Have you anything to add? Not much,
2:42:07
nothing very important. End of Section ten. Section eleven, leave the unimportant,
2:42:22
and let us bring the really important question into the light of day,
2:42:26
which is what power has this art of rhetoric? And when very great power
2:42:35
in public meetings it has. But I should like to know whether you have
2:42:41
the same feeling as I have about the rhetoricians. To me, there seem
2:42:48
to be a great many holes in their web. Give an example. I
2:42:54
will suppose a person to come to your friend Eric Simachus, or to his
2:43:03
father Acumenus, and to say to him, I know how to apply drugs
2:43:09
which shall have either a heating or a cooling effect, and I can give
2:43:15
a vomit and also a purge, and all that sort of thing. And
2:43:20
knowing all this as I do, I claim to be a physician and to
2:43:26
make physicians by imparting this knowledge to others. What do you suppose that they
2:43:33
would say? Hm? They would be sure to ask him whether he knew
2:43:39
to whom he would give his medicines, and when and how much? And
2:43:46
suppose that he were to reply, no, I know nothing of all that.
2:43:54
I expect the patient who consults me to be able to do these things
2:43:58
for him himself. They would say in reply that he is a madman or
2:44:05
a pedant who fancies that he is a physician because he has read something in
2:44:11
a book or has stumbled on a prescription or two, although he has no
2:44:16
real understanding of the art of medicine. And suppose a person where to come
2:44:24
to Sophocles or Euripides and say that he knows how to make a very long
2:44:30
speech about a small matter, and a short speech about a great matter,
2:44:37
and also a sorrowful speech, or a terrible or threatening speech, or any
2:44:45
other kind of speech, And in teaching this fancies that he is teaching the
2:44:52
art of tragedy. They too, would surely laugh at him if he fancies
2:45:00
that tragedy is anything but the arranging of these elements in a manner which will
2:45:05
be suitable to one another and to the whole. But I do not suppose
2:45:13
that they would be rude or abusive to him. Would they not treat him
2:45:18
as a musician a man who thinks that he is a harmonist because he knows
2:45:24
how to pitch the highest and lowest note. Happening to meet such an one,
2:45:31
he would not say to him, savagely, fool you are mad,
2:45:39
But like a musician in a gentle and harmonious tone of voice. He would
2:45:45
answer, my good friend, he who would be a harmonist must certainly know
2:45:52
this, And yet he may understand nothing of harmony if he has not got
2:45:58
beyond yours stage of knowledge. For you only know the preliminaries of harmony,
2:46:05
and not harmony itself. Very true, and will not Sophocles say to the
2:46:13
display of the would be tragedian that this is not tragedy, but the preliminaries
2:46:20
of tragedy, And will not Accumeneus say the same of medicine to the would
2:46:26
be physician. Quite true. And if Adrastus, the malifluous or Pericles heard
2:46:37
of these wonderful arts, brachylogies, and iconologies, and all the hard names
2:46:45
which we have been endeavoring to draw into the light of day, what would
2:46:50
they say, Instead of losing temper and applying uncomplimentary epithets, as you and
2:46:58
I have been doing to the authors of such an imaginary art, their superior
2:47:05
wisdom would rather censure us as well as them. Have a little patience,
2:47:13
Vidrous and Socrates, they would say, you should not be in such a
2:47:18
passion with those who, from some want of dialectical skill, are unable to
2:47:24
define the nature of rhetoric, and consequently suppose that they have found the art
2:47:33
in the preliminary conditions of it, and when these have been taught by them
2:47:39
to others, fancy that the whole art of rhetoric has been taught by them.
2:47:46
But as to using the several instruments of the art effectively, or making
2:47:52
the composition a whole an application of it, such as this is, they
2:48:00
regard as an easy thing which their disciples may make for themselves. I quite
2:48:07
admit, Socrates, that the art of rhetoric which these men teach and of
2:48:13
which they write is such as you describe. Dare I agree with you?
2:48:20
But I still want to know where and how the true art of rhetoric and
2:48:26
persuasion is to be acquired. The perfection which is required of the finished orator
2:48:35
is, or rather must, be, like the perfection of anything else,
2:48:41
partly given by nature, but may also be assisted by art. If you
2:48:48
have the natural power, and add to its knowledge and practice, you will
2:48:54
be a distinguished speaker. If you fall short in either of these, you
2:49:01
will be to that extent defective. But the art, as far as there
2:49:07
is an art, of rhetoric does not lie in the direction of Lucias or
2:49:13
Thracimacus. In what direction, then, I conceive Pericles to have been the
2:49:22
most accomplished of rhetoricians. What of that? All the great arts require discussion
2:49:31
and high speculation about the truths of nature. Hence come loftiness of thought and
2:49:39
completeness of execution. And this, as I conceive, was the quality which,
2:49:46
in addition to his natural gifts, Pericles acquired from his intercourse with Anaxagoras,
2:49:56
whom he happened to know. He was thus in you'd with the higher
2:50:01
philosophy, and attained the knowledge of mind and the negative of mind, which
2:50:07
were favorite themes of Anaxagoras, and applied what suited his purpose to the art
2:50:15
of speaking. Explain, rhetoric is like medicine. How SOO why because medicine
2:50:26
has to define the nature of the body, and rhetoric of the soul.
2:50:33
If we would proceed not empirically but scientifically, in the one case, to
2:50:39
impart health and strength by giving medicine and food, in the other, to
2:50:46
implant the conviction or virtue which you desire by the right application of words and
2:50:54
training. Their socrates I suspect that you are right. And do you think
2:51:01
that you can know the nature of the soul intelligently without knowing the nature of
2:51:09
the whole? Hipocrates the Asclepiad says that the nature even of the body,
2:51:16
can only be understood as a whole. Yes, friend, and he was
2:51:22
right. Still, we ought not to be content with the name of Hipocrates,
2:51:28
but to examine and see whether his argument agrees with his conception of nature.
2:51:35
I agree. Then consider what truth, as well as Hipocrates says about
2:51:43
this or about any other nature? Ought we not to consider first whether that
2:51:50
which we wish to learn and to teach is a simple or multiform thing?
2:51:58
And if simple, then to inquire what power it has of acting or being
2:52:03
acted upon in relation to other things. And if multiform, then to number
2:52:11
the forms, and see, first in the case of one of them,
2:52:16
and then in the case of all of them, what is that power of
2:52:22
acting or being acted upon which makes each and all of them to be what
2:52:28
they are. You may very likely be right, Socrates. The method which
2:52:37
proceeds without analysis is like the groping of a blind man. Yet surely he
2:52:45
who is an artist ought not to admit of a comparison with the blind or
2:52:50
death. The rhetorician who teaches his pupil to speak scientifically will particularly set forth
2:53:01
the nature of that being to which he addresses his speeches. And this I
2:53:07
conceive to be the soul. Certainly, his whole effort is directed to the
2:53:15
soul, for in that he seeks to produce conviction. Yes, then,
2:53:22
clearly Thrasimacus or anyone else who teaches rhetoric in earnest will give an exact description
2:53:31
of the nature of the soul, which will enable us to see whether she
2:53:35
be single and same or like the body multiform. That is what we should
2:53:43
call showing the nature of the soul exactly. He will explain, Secondly,
2:53:52
the mode in which she acts or is acted upon. Two Thirdly, classified
2:54:01
men and speeches and their kinds and affections, and adapted them to one another.
2:54:07
He will tell the reasons of his arrangement, and show why one soul
2:54:13
is persuaded by a particular form of argument and another not. You have hit
2:54:22
upon a very good way. Yes, that is the true and only way
2:54:28
in which any subject can be set forth or treated by the rules of art,
2:54:35
whether in speaking or writing. But the writers of the present day,
2:54:41
at whose feet you have sat craftily concealed the nature of the soul, which
2:54:50
they know quite well. Nor until they adopt our method of reading and writing,
2:54:58
can we admit that they right by rules of art? What is our
2:55:03
method? I cannot give you the exact details, but I should like to
2:55:11
tell you, generally, as far as is in my power, how a
2:55:16
man ought to proceed according to rules of art. Let me hear end of
2:55:26
section eleven, Section twelve. Oratory is the art of enchanting the soul.
2:55:37
And therefore he who would be an orator has to learn the differences of human
2:55:43
souls. They are so many and of such a nature, and from them
2:55:50
come the differences between man and man. Having proceeded thus far in his analysis,
2:56:00
he will next divide speeches into their different classes. Such and such persons,
2:56:07
he will say, are affected by this or that kind of speech in
2:56:13
this or that way, And he will tell you why. The pupil must
2:56:20
have a good theoretical notion of them first, and then he must have experience
2:56:26
of them in actual life, and be able to follow them with all his
2:56:31
senses about him, or he will never get beyond the precepts of his masters.
2:56:39
But when he understands what persons are persuaded by what arguments, and sees
2:56:46
the person about whom he was speaking in the abstract actually before him, and
2:56:54
knows that it is he, and can say to himself, this is the
2:56:58
man, or this is the character who ought to have a certain argument applied
2:57:05
to him in order to convince him of a certain opinion. He who knows
2:57:11
all this, and knows also when he should speak, and when he should
2:57:16
refrain, and when he should use pithee sayings, pathetic appeals, sensational effects,
2:57:26
and all the other modes of speech which he has learned. When I
2:57:31
say he knows the times and seasons of all these things, then and not
2:57:39
till then he is a perfect master of his art. But if he fail
2:57:46
in any of these points, whether in speaking or teaching or writing them,
2:57:54
and yet declares that he speaks by rules of art, he who says,
2:58:00
I don't believe you has the better of him. Well, the teacher will
2:58:07
say, is this fidrous? And Socrates, your account of the so called
2:58:13
art of rhetoric? Or am I to look for another? He must take
2:58:20
this, Socrates, for there is no possibility of another. And yet the
2:58:26
creation of such an art is not easy, very true. And therefore let
2:58:33
us consider this matter in every light and see whether we cannot find a shorter
2:58:41
and easier road. There is no use in taking a long, rough,
2:58:46
roundabout way if there be a shorter and easier one. And I wish that
2:58:52
you would try and remember whether you have heard from Lysias or any one else,
2:58:58
anything which might be of service to us. If trying would avail,
2:59:07
then I might, But at the moment I can think of nothing. Suppose
2:59:13
I tell you something which somebody who knows told me certainly may not. The
2:59:22
wolf, as the proverb says, claim a hearing, do you say what
2:59:30
can be said for him? He will argue that there is no use in
2:59:37
putting a solemn face on these matters, or in going round and round until
2:59:43
you arrive at first principles. For as I said, at first, when
2:59:50
the question is of justice or good, or is a question in which men
2:59:54
are concerned who are just and good, either by nature or habit, he
3:00:01
who would be a skillful rhetorician has no need of truth, for that.
3:00:09
In courts of law, men literally care nothing about truth, but only about
3:00:16
conviction. And this is based on probability, to which he who would be
3:00:22
a skillful orator should therefore give his whole attention. And they say also that
3:00:31
there are cases in which the actual facts, if they are improbable, ought
3:00:37
to be withheld, and only the probabilities should be told, either in accusation
3:00:45
or defense, and that always in speaking the orator should keep probability in view
3:00:54
and say goodbye to the truth. And the observation of this principle throughout a
3:01:01
speech vurnishes the whole art. That is what the professors of rhetoric do actually
3:01:11
say. Socrates, I have not forgotten that we have quite briefly touched upon
3:01:18
this matter already with them. The point is all important. I dare say
3:01:26
that you are familiar with Tisseias. Does he not define probability to be that
3:01:33
which the many think? Certainly he does. I believe that he has a
3:01:41
clever and ingenious case of this sort. He supposes a feeble and valiant man
3:01:48
to have assaulted a strong and cowardly one, and to have robbed him off
3:01:54
his coat or of something or other. He is brought into court, and
3:02:01
then Tissias says that both parties should tell lies. The coward should say that
3:02:09
he was assaulted by more men than one, the other should prove that they
3:02:16
were alone, and should argue, thus, how could a weak man like
3:02:22
me have assaulted a strong man like him? The complainant will not like to
3:02:28
confess his own cowardice, and will therefore invent some other lie, which his
3:02:35
adversary will thus gain an opportunity of refuting. And there are other devices of
3:02:43
the same kind which have a place in the system. Am I not right
3:02:50
fidrous? Certainly bless me? What a wonderfully mysterious art is this which Tisseas
3:03:01
or some other gentleman in whatever name or country he rejoices, has discovered.
3:03:09
Shall we say a word to him? Or not? What shall we say
3:03:15
to him? Let us tell him that before he appeared you and I were
3:03:20
saying that the probability of which he speaks was engendered in the minds of the
3:03:28
many by the likeness of the truth. And we had just been affirming that
3:03:35
he who knew the truth would always know best how to discover the resemblances of
3:03:41
the truth. If he has anything else to say about the art of speaking,
3:03:48
we should like to hear him. But if not, we are satisfied
3:03:52
with our own view that unless a man estimates the various characters of his hearers,
3:04:00
and is able to divide all things into classes and to comprehend them under
3:04:07
single ideas, he will never be a skillful rhetorician, even within the limits
3:04:15
of human power. And this skill he will not attain without a great deal
3:04:22
of trouble, which a good man ought to undergo, not for the sake
3:04:26
of speaking and acting before men, but in order that he may be able
3:04:33
to say what is acceptable to God, and always to act acceptably to Him,
3:04:41
as far as in him lies. For there is a saying of wiser
3:04:46
men than ourselves that a man of sense should not try to please his fellow
3:04:52
servants. At least this should not be his first object, but his good
3:05:00
and noble masters. And therefore, if the way is long and secuitous,
3:05:07
marvel not at this, For where the end is great, there we may
3:05:13
take the longer road, but not for lesser ends such as yours. Truly,
3:05:22
the argument may say, Tisseas that if you do not mind going so
3:05:28
far, rhetoric has a fair beginning here. I think Socrates that this is
3:05:37
admirable, if only practicable. But even to fail in an honorable object is
3:05:46
honorable true end of section twelve, Section thirteen. Enough appears to have been
3:06:03
said by us of a true and false art of speaking, certainly, but
3:06:11
there is something yet to be said of propriety and impropriety of writing. Yes,
3:06:20
do you know how you can speak or act about rhetoric in a manner
3:06:26
which will be acceptable to God? No? Indeed, do you I have
3:06:35
heard a tradition of the ancients, whether true or not? They only know,
3:06:41
Although if we had found the truth ourselves, do you think that we
3:06:46
should care much about the opinions of men? Your question needs no answer,
3:06:54
But I wish that you would tell me what you say that you have heard.
3:07:00
At the Egyptian city of Naukratis there was a famous old god whose name
3:07:07
was Theuth. The bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him,
3:07:13
and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation,
3:07:20
and geometry, and astronomy, and drafts and dice. But his great discovery
3:07:30
was the use of letters. Now, in those days, the god Thamus
3:07:37
was king of the whole country of Egypt, and he dwelt in that great
3:07:41
city of Upper Egypt, which the Hellenes call Egyptian Thebes, and the god
3:07:50
himself is called by them Ammon. To him came youth and showed his inventions,
3:08:00
desiring that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the benefit of them.
3:08:07
He enumerated them, and Thamos inquired about their several uses, and praised
3:08:15
some of them and censured others, as he approved or disapprov'd of them.
3:08:22
It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamos said to theuth in
3:08:28
praise or blame of the various arts. But when they came to letters,
3:08:33
this said youth will make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories. It
3:08:41
is a specific both for the memory and for the wit. Thamos replied,
3:08:50
oh, most ingenious youth, the parent or inventor of an art is not
3:08:56
always the best judge of the utility or inutility of his own inventions to the
3:09:03
users of them. And in this instance, you, who are the father
3:09:09
of letters, from a paternal love of your own children, have been led
3:09:16
to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have. For this discovery of
3:09:22
yours will create forgetfulness in the learner's souls, because they will not use their
3:09:31
memories. They will trust to the external written characters, and not remember of
3:09:37
themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory but
3:09:46
to reminiscence. And you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance
3:09:54
of truth. They will be the hearers of many things, and will have
3:09:58
loved and nothing. They will appear to be omniscient, and will generally know
3:10:05
nothing. They will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the
3:10:13
reality. Yes, Socrates, you can easily invent tales of Egypt or of
3:10:22
any other country. There was a tradition in the temple of Dodona that oaks
3:10:31
first gave prophetic utterances. The men of old, unlike in their simplicity to
3:10:39
young philosophy, determined that if they heard the truth, even from oak or
3:10:46
rock, it was enough for them. Whereas you seem to consider not whether
3:10:54
a thing is or is not true, but who the speaker is and from
3:11:01
what country the tale comes. I acknowledge the justice of your rebuke, and
3:11:11
I think that the theban is writ in his view about letters, hm,
3:11:16
he would be a very simple person, and quite a stranger to the oracles
3:11:24
of Thamos or Ammon, who should leave in writing or receive in writing any
3:11:31
art under the idea that the written word would be intelligible or certain, or
3:11:39
who deemed that writing was at all better than knowledge and recollection of the same
3:11:46
matters. That is most true. I cannot help feeling fightrous that writing is
3:11:56
unfortunately like painting, For the creations of the painter have the attitude of life.
3:12:05
And yet if you ask them a question, they preserve a solemn silence.
3:12:11
And the same may be said of speeches. You would imagine that they
3:12:16
had intelligence. But if you want to know anything and put a question to
3:12:22
one of them, the speaker always gives one unvarying answer. And when they
3:12:31
have been once written down, they are tumbled about anywhere among those who may
3:12:37
or may not understand them, and know not to whom they should reply,
3:12:43
to whom not. And if they are maltreated or abused, they have no
3:12:50
parent to protect them, and they cannot protect or defend themselves. That again
3:12:58
is most true. Is there not another kind of word or speech far better
3:13:07
than this, and having far greater power? A son of the same family,
3:13:13
but lawfully begotten. Whom do you mean, and what is his origin?
3:13:20
I mean an intelligent word graven in the soul of the learner, which
3:13:28
can defend itself, and knows when to speak and when to be silent.
3:13:35
You mean the living word of knowledge, which has a soul, and of
3:13:41
which the written word is properly no more than an image. Yes, of
3:13:48
course, that is what I mean. And now may I be allowed to
3:13:54
ask you a question. Would a husbandman who is a man of sense take
3:14:01
the seeds which he values and which he wishes to bear fruit, and in
3:14:07
sober seriousness plant them during the heat of summer in some garden of a dunis,
3:14:15
that he may rejoice when he sees them in eight days appearing in beauty.
3:14:22
At least, he would do so if at all only for the sake
3:14:26
of amusement and pastime. But if he is in earnest, he sows in
3:14:33
fitting soil and practices husbandry, and is satisfied if in eight months the seeds
3:14:41
which he has sown arrive at perfection. Yes, Socrates, that will be
3:14:48
his way. When he is in earnest, he will do the other,
3:14:52
as you say, only in play. And can we suppose that he who
3:14:58
knows the just and good and honorable has less understanding than the husbandman about his
3:15:07
own seeds. Certainly not, then he will not seriously incline to write his
3:15:16
thoughts in water with pen and ink, sowing words which can neither speak for
3:15:22
themselves nor teach the truth adequately to others. No, that is not likely.
3:15:31
No, that is not likely. In the garden of letters he will
3:15:37
sow and plant, but only for the sake of recreation and amusement. He
3:15:43
will write them down as memorials, to be treasured against the forgetfulness of old
3:15:50
age, by himself or by any other old man who is treading the same
3:15:56
path. He will rejoice in beholding their tender growth, And while others are
3:16:03
refreshing their souls with banqueting and the like, this will be the pastime in
3:16:11
which his days are spent, a pastime Socrates, as noble as the other
3:16:18
is ignoble. The pastime of a man who can be amused by serious talk,
3:16:24
and can discourse merrily about justice and the like. True, fidrous,
3:16:31
but nobler far is the serious pursuit of the dialectician, who, finding a
3:16:39
congenial soul by the help of science, souls and plants therein words which are
3:16:46
able to help themselves, And him who planted them, and are not unfruitful,
3:16:54
but have in them a seed which others brought up. Indifference soils render
3:17:01
immortal, making the possessors of it happy to the utmost extent of human happiness.
3:17:11
Far nobler, certainly. End of Section thirteen, Section fourteen. And
3:17:24
now Fidrus, having agreed upon the premises, we may decide about the conclusion
3:17:33
about what conclusion about Lucias whom we censur'd, and his art of writing,
3:17:43
and his discourses, and the rhetorical skill or want of skill, which was
3:17:50
shown in them. These are the questions which we sought to determine, and
3:17:56
they brought us to this point. And I think that we are now pretty
3:18:03
well informed about the nature of art and its opposite. Yes, I think
3:18:09
with you, but I wish that you would repeat what was said HM.
3:18:16
Until a man knows the truth of the several particulars of which he is writing
3:18:24
or speaking, and is able to define them as they are, and,
3:18:28
having defined them again, to divide them until they can be no longer divided,
3:18:37
And until in like manner, he is able to discern the nature of
3:18:43
the soul and discover the different modes of discourse which are adapted to different natures,
3:18:52
and to arrange and dispose them in such a way that the simple form
3:18:58
of speech may be addressed to the simpler nature, and the complex and composite
3:19:05
to the more complex nature. Until he has accomplished all this, he will
3:19:11
be unable to handle arguments according to rules of art, as far as their
3:19:18
nature allows them to be subjected to art, either for the purpose of teaching
3:19:26
or persuading. Such is the view which is implied in the whole preceding argument.
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Yes, that was our view. Certainly. Secondly, as to the
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censure which was passed on the speaking or writing of discourses, and how they
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might be rightly or wrongly censured, did not our previous argument show show what
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that? Whether Lucias or any other writer that ever was or will be,
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whether private man or statesman proposes laws and so becomes the author of a political
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treatise, fancying that there is any great certainty and clearness in his performance,
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the fact of his soul writing is only a disgrace to him, whatever men
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may say. For not to know the nature of justice and injustice, and
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good and evil, and not to be able to distinguish the dream from the
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reality, cannot in truth be otherwise than disgraceful to him, even though he
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have the applause of the whole world. Certainly, but he who thinks that
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in the written word there is necessarily much which is not serious, and that
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neither poetry nor prose, spoken nor written, is of any great value,
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if, like the compositions of the Rhapsodes, they are only recited in order
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to be believed, and not with any view to criticism or instruction. And
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who thinks that even the best of writings are but a reminiscence of what we
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know, And that only in principles of justice and goodness and nobility, taught
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and communicated orally for the sake of instruction and graven in the soul, which
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is the true way of writing, is their clearness and perfection and seriousness.
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And that such principles are a man's own and his legitimate offspring in the first
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place, the word which he finds in his own bosom. Secondly, the
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brethren and descendants and relations of his idea, which have been duly implanted by
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him in the souls of others, And who cares for them and no others.
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This is the right sort of man, And you and I Fidrus would
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pray that we may become like him. That is most assuredly my desire and
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prayer. And now the play is played out and of rhetoric. Enough,
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go and tell Lysias that to the fountain and school of the nymphs we went
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down and were bidden by them to convey a message to him, and to
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other composers of speeches, to Homer and other writers of poems, whether set
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to music or not, and to Solon and others who have compos'd writings in
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the form of political discourses, which they would term laws. To all of
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them, we are to say that if their compositions are based on knowledge of
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the truth, and they can defend or prove them when they are put to
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the test by spoken arguments which leave their writings poor in comparison of them,
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then they are to be called not only poets orators legislators, but are worthy
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of a higher name befitting the serious pursuit of their life. What name would
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you assign to them? Whyse I may not call them, for that is
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a great name which belongs to God alone. Lovers of wisdom or philosophers.
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Is their modest and befitting title, very suitable and he who cannot rise above
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his own compilations and compositions which he has been long patching and piecing, adding
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some and taking away some, may be justly called poet, or speech maker
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or law maker. Certainly, now go and tell this to your companion.
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But there is also a friend of yours who ought not to be forgotten.
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Who is he? I so cratise the fair. What message will you send
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to him? And how shall we describe him? Isocrates is still young,
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fidrous, but I am willing to hazard a prophecy concerning him. What would
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you prophesy? I? I think that he has a genius which soars above
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the orations of Lucias, and that his character is cast in a finer mold.
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My impression of him is that he will marvelously improve as he grows older,
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and that all former rhetoricians will be as children in comparison of him.
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And I believe that he will not be satisfied with rhetoric, but that there
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is in him a divine inspiration which will lead him to things higher still,
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For he has an element of philosophy in his nature. This is the message
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of the gods dwelling in this place, and which I will myself deliver to
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Isocrates, who is my delight, And do you give the other to Lucias,
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who is yours? I will. And now as the heat is abated,
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let us depart. Should we not offer up a prayer first of all
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to the local deities, by all means, beloved Pan and all ye other
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gods who haunt this place, give me beauty in the inward soul. And
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may the outward and inward man be at one. May I reckon the wise
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to be the wealthy, And may I have such a quantity of gold as
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a tempered man and he only can bear and carry, oh anything more.
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The prayer I think is enough for me, Ask the same for me.
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For friends should have all things in common. Let us go. End of
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section fourteen.