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California Tobacco Prevention Control · The iHeart SoCal Show

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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Heart SoCal. My name is EJ
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  Speaker 1: and on the phone with me, I have Dr. Bonnie Halpern-Fisher,
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  Speaker 1: who is a professor and director of Stanford Reach Lab.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, of course. Let's jump into it. And I
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  Speaker 1: want to talk about California has been a leader for
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  Speaker 1: decades in the fight against big tobacco, driving down tobacco
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  Speaker 1: use and protecting the health of Californians. What's happening now?
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  Speaker 1: that should have California so concerned?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question. You know, in California,
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  Speaker 2: you're right. We have made great strides to reduce tobacco
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  Speaker 2: and nicotine use amongst adolescents and young adults. But we've
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  Speaker 2: actually been undermined right now by a new generation of
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  Speaker 2: really high-dose, low-friction nicotine products that are hooking young people.
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  Speaker 2: We're talking about continued use of e-cigarettes or vapes, nicotine pouches,
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  Speaker 2: and other tobacco products. They really rewire the brain until
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  Speaker 2: it's fully matured. And so we're so much more likely
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  Speaker 2: to have young people who are dependent or addicted on nicotine,
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  Speaker 2: particularly we're seeing this in the young adult population now.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of these new nicotine products like the new vapes,
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  Speaker 2: the nicotine pouches, they have a type of nicotine that's
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  Speaker 2: called a nicotine salt product. as opposed to an older
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  Speaker 2: free base nicotine. And they have higher concentrations of nicotine
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  Speaker 2: that's delivered smoothly and quickly. And so you're so coupled
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  Speaker 2: with just a huge amount of nicotine. So you're just
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  Speaker 2: so much more likely to have young people who are
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  Speaker 2: dependent on nicotine today. And that's really concerning to me.
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  Speaker 1: It's really interesting that they target young these young people, though?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. If you're looking at the marketing and the
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  Speaker 2: flavors and the high amount of nicotine, it's really there.
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  Speaker 2: One of my colleagues used to say that the marketing
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  Speaker 2: drives young people to them, the flavors keep them to
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  Speaker 2: want to keep using because they taste good, and then
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  Speaker 2: the nicotine hooks them, but then the rest of the
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  Speaker 2: ingredients really get them sick. And we're very concerned about those.
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  Speaker 2: And yeah, they're directly targeting young people.
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  Speaker 1: Why is it so important that you feel like people
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  Speaker 1: need to be aware of this?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think we need to be aware because people
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  Speaker 2: really don't understand the fact that these products are dependent
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  Speaker 2: or really increasing one's dependency, that they're actually changing their
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  Speaker 2: brain chemistry, changing their mental health outlook. And they're marketed,
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  Speaker 2: especially the newer nicotine pouch products, they're marketed as safe
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  Speaker 2: or safer products. Well, when you're talking about safer for
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  Speaker 2: a young person, safer than what? Most young people are
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  Speaker 2: not smoking cigarettes, although we are seeing an increase in
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  Speaker 2: cigarette use, but most are not smoking cigarettes. They're vaping
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  Speaker 2: or using nicotine pouches. So when you're saying they're safer,
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  Speaker 2: that's mismarketing to young people who don't understand. They don't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily have the capacity to push back on the marketing,
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  Speaker 2: to reflect on it and say, no, no, no, don't
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  Speaker 2: target me. They are being targeted. And so that's one
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  Speaker 2: of the main concerns that we have. And that's why
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  Speaker 2: they're targeting them. And they want them to stay addicted
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  Speaker 2: to these products.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know what's interesting? I just don't understand the
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  Speaker 1: whole marketing towards kids when it comes to nicotine and
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  Speaker 1: things like that, because I feel like it's not a
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  Speaker 1: kid thing. You know what I mean?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you're right. It should not be a kid thing.
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  Speaker 2: But the tobacco industry, big tobacco, big nicotine know that
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  Speaker 2: if they can attract... and addict young people early on,
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  Speaker 2: then they've got you for life, basically. And we, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Phil Morris, excuse me, with Marlboro, for example, learned this
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  Speaker 2: early on, that if somebody is a is addicted to
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  Speaker 2: their cigarettes, then they're going to stick not only to cigarettes,
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  Speaker 2: but to that particular brand. So that's one of the
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  Speaker 2: things that we've learned. And so they're really wanting to
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  Speaker 2: get you to use their product, their brand. A lot
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  Speaker 2: of times, influencers, for example, are being used. We see
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  Speaker 2: this with the nicotine pouch, Zin. They have influencers that
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  Speaker 2: are now called Zinfluencers, or Zinning, or Zimbabwe, and all
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  Speaker 2: these play on names. That's attractive to young people, you know,
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  Speaker 2: or things like unicorn poop or sugar booger flavors for e-cigarettes.
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  Speaker 2: That's not attracting us adults. That's really attracting our kids.
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  Speaker 2: It's very concerning.
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  Speaker 1: What is the term big nicotine? And is that a
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  Speaker 1: new name for big tobacco or something different?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a very, very good question. It
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  Speaker 2: is the term, the more modern term for the companies
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  Speaker 2: that are trying to sell nicotine. To young people. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I will be honest. I tend to think of these
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  Speaker 2: as nicotine and tobacco are one and the same in
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  Speaker 2: a lot of ways. I talk to my lab about that.
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  Speaker 2: I don't say tobacco or nicotine. I say tobacco slash
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  Speaker 2: nicotine because most of the nicotine today is still derived
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  Speaker 2: from the tobacco plant. We do have synthetic nicotine, but
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  Speaker 2: most of it is derived from it. But it's big
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  Speaker 2: nicotine because selling nicotine addiction is Whether it's in cigarettes
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  Speaker 2: or vapes or pouches is what the industry is trying
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  Speaker 2: to do. The industry is really trying to shift away
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  Speaker 2: from the cigarettes or from tobacco to say, oh, they're
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  Speaker 2: just nicotine products and therefore they're less harmful. And that
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  Speaker 2: is really not true, especially when, again, we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: young people. That huge amount of nicotine that's in these
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  Speaker 2: products is really there to get people dependent on it
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  Speaker 2: and keep them dependent. That's why we think of it
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  Speaker 2: as big nicotine as well as big tobacco.
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  Speaker 1: What do you do as a parent and you catch
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  Speaker 1: your kids vaping or using tobacco and nicotine? How do
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  Speaker 1: you combat that?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. I always say to parents,
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  Speaker 2: my REACH lab does a lot of work with parents.
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  Speaker 2: I always say, look, I'm a parent. My kids are
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  Speaker 2: now adults, but I'm a parent. If I knew that
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  Speaker 2: my young people were vaping or smoking or smoking, using
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  Speaker 2: nicotine pouches, I'd be upset. But it's not a time
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  Speaker 2: to be upset with young people. It's a time to care.
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  Speaker 2: It's really a time to say, look, I'm concerned about
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  Speaker 2: your health. I'm concerned about your brain. I'm concerned about
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  Speaker 2: your mental and physical health. I'm concerned about your body
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  Speaker 2: as you're developing. So first of all, let's learn about
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  Speaker 2: these products together, whether it's going to the California Department
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  Speaker 2: of Public Health's group, whether it's going to MyReachLab, whether
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  Speaker 2: it's going to the Kiki California. other areas within California
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  Speaker 2: or within the country even that have these ways to help.
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  Speaker 2: Let's go look at it together. And so I always
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  Speaker 2: say to parents, say, I listened to this radio. I
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  Speaker 2: listened to somebody talk. Can we figure it out together?
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  Speaker 2: If they are using and they are dependent, they got
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  Speaker 2: to get some help. And whether that is, and kids
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  Speaker 2: may not want that, But it's really to say, I
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  Speaker 2: am concerned. Let me go, whether it's a pediatrician, adolescent
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  Speaker 2: medicine doc, a psychiatrist, a counselor, get them some cognitive
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  Speaker 2: behavioral therapy, get them some help, get them some therapy.
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  Speaker 2: And they may need nicotine replacement or other medication to
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  Speaker 2: help them get off because there's so much nicotine in
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  Speaker 2: these products. Right now, it's so hard.
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  Speaker 1: You know what's interesting? You say you can't essentially get mad.
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  Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think it's a time to talk.
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  Speaker 1: It's also a time to get them some help. So
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  Speaker 1: I agree with you 100%.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, any parent's going to be upset if
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  Speaker 2: their young people are using any drugs, of course. Again,
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  Speaker 2: I'm a parent. I get that. But it's not helpful.
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  Speaker 2: That is not where we need to be going. And
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  Speaker 2: I often say to parents, it's not just your kids.
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  Speaker 2: Look at the industry. They're the ones who are targeting
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  Speaker 2: your young people, targeting your kids. So let's get mad
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  Speaker 2: at the industry. Let's get mad at the lack of regulations.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get mad at the lack of enforcement. And let's
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  Speaker 2: help our kids.
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  Speaker 1: How much has the nicotine content in these products actually
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  Speaker 1: changed in recent years?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, it's gone up dramatically, dramatically. So some of the
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  Speaker 2: latest statistics are showing between 2020 and 2024, the nicotine
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  Speaker 2: strength increased about 15% in the more current disposable vape products.
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  Speaker 2: Really about a 250% increase in the amount of nicotine
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  Speaker 2: total that's been sold in these e-cigarettes. I mean, some
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  Speaker 2: of these nicotine devices now, like the nicotine vapes. can
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  Speaker 2: have as much as about 600 cigarettes worth of nicotine
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  Speaker 2: in them. The bigger products, huge amount of nicotine. It
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  Speaker 2: started with Juul, which had maybe a pack or two
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  Speaker 2: of cigarettes. Now we're looking at cartons worth of cigarettes
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  Speaker 2: worth of nicotine. You look at the nicotine pouches, those
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  Speaker 2: could have up to about five cigarettes worth of nicotine
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  Speaker 2: per pouch. And young people are using multiple pouches at
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  Speaker 2: a time. So we're really seeing over a 2,000, 2,300
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  Speaker 2: or so percent increase in the amount of nicotine sold
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  Speaker 2: in disposables overall. Again, huge amount of change in that
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  Speaker 2: nicotine use. And that's why it's so surprising that young
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  Speaker 2: people are so addicted to these products.
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  Speaker 1: That's kind of mind-blowing, respectfully. That's very mind-blowing, if I
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  Speaker 1: have to say so myself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And when I say this to kids
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  Speaker 2: or I say it to parents or to educators and
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  Speaker 2: I say, do you realize that young people today are
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  Speaker 2: smoking or vaping or inhaling packs of cigarettes– It is.
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  Speaker 2: It's mind-blowing. And to be honest, the other problem is
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  Speaker 2: that in the United States, we have no what we
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  Speaker 2: call nicotine standard. We have no top level of nicotine
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  Speaker 2: use or nicotine manufacturing. So in the UK, for example,
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  Speaker 2: you can't. have more than about 1.8%. I can't remember
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  Speaker 2: exactly what it is, but way below the percentage of
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  Speaker 2: nicotine that we have. So it's about half to a
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  Speaker 2: full pack of cigarettes maximum. We have no maximum in
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  Speaker 2: the US. So these manufacturers can put in as much
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  Speaker 2: nicotine as they want, and they are. They are putting
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  Speaker 2: it in.
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  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, you have a lot of great information
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  Speaker 1: during this call. We appreciate you stepping on because I
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  Speaker 1: feel like this is a very important topic that we
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  Speaker 1: need to get ahead of. Dr. Bonnie Halpern Fleischer, who
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  Speaker 1: is a professor and director of Stanford Reach Lab. Thank
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  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Take care.