Latest / Mic Drop Comedy / Colin Kaepernick Continues _The Perilous Fight_ 10 Years After Taking a Knee _ The Daily Show
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick. Thank you so much for coming.
- 0:27Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for having me.
- 0:29Speaker 1: Yeah, you're so tall. I was... Even as I was
- 0:32Speaker 1: stepping down, I was like, I shouldn't have stepped down.
- 0:35Speaker 3: What I like about us sitting is that it gives
- 0:37Speaker 3: us at least the illusion of the same height.
- 0:40Speaker 2: We're high and high now.
- 0:41Speaker 1: Yeah, my chair is very high. We actually, almost in passing,
- 0:48Speaker 1: kind of met once.
- 0:49Speaker 3: I know you wouldn't remember this, but basically, years ago,
- 0:53Speaker 3: This would have been like 2019 or something. We were
- 0:57Speaker 3: passing each other in an airport, and we both had afros,
- 1:01Speaker 3: and I pointed to mine, and you were very nice
- 1:04Speaker 3: about it.
- 1:04Speaker 1: You were like, mm-hmm.
- 1:07Speaker 3: I didn't know what to say to you, so then
- 1:10Speaker 3: I just panicked, and I.
- 1:11Speaker 1: Was like, no! And then you were like, yeah, buddy. What, twins? Yeah, twins!
- 1:17Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me. Oh, I'm happy
- 1:20Speaker 1: to be here, and big fan. Really? Of course. That
- 1:25Speaker 1: is wild. Of course. That's wild. Yeah, I'm a big
- 1:29Speaker 1: fan of you. Well, thank you. What a coincidence. I
- 1:33Speaker 1: have so many questions for you.
- 1:34Speaker 3: I guess one of the main ones is it's now
- 1:38Speaker 3: 10 years since you first took a knee.
- 1:42Speaker 1: And it doesn't seem like America's better. Do you know
- 1:50Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, how are you feeling now when
- 1:53Speaker 1: you look around now?
- 1:55Speaker 2: Feels like a little bit like an episode of The
- 1:59Speaker 2: Twilight Zone.
- 2:00Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, this doesn't feel like reality. Yeah.
- 2:04Speaker 2: Because after 10 years, there's been progress in some areas.
- 2:09Speaker 2: But there's also, like, we're seeing corruption at.
- 2:12Speaker 1: A level that feels.
- 2:14Speaker 2: like a fantasy.
- 2:15Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like cartoonish.
- 2:17Speaker 2: It is cartoonish. So I think those components make you
- 2:22Speaker 2: think about, like, what should we be doing? How do
- 2:25Speaker 2: we actually advance from here? I will say, the part
- 2:28Speaker 2: that gives me hope is while we're seeing the administration
- 2:32Speaker 2: and the corporate side do wild things, what we're seeing
- 2:36Speaker 2: more on the ground is people being fed up with
- 2:38Speaker 2: it and starting to push back harder and harder. And
- 2:42Speaker 2: that gives me hope about where we're going.
- 2:45Speaker 1: Oh, that makes sense.
- 2:49Speaker 3: I think also when people think of activism, I think
- 2:56Speaker 3: a lot of it can feel like something that only
- 2:59Speaker 3: people with access or people who are affluent, I think
- 3:03Speaker 3: sometimes we almost feel like activism is in the same
- 3:06Speaker 3: place as philanthropy, where I can do that when I
- 3:10Speaker 3: get to a different place in my life. And I
- 3:12Speaker 3: think you've worked with so many people who are activists
- 3:14Speaker 3: right now. When you think of an activist, you usually
- 3:17Speaker 3: think of someone who is just doing that thing. And
- 3:21Speaker 3: I think rarely we acknowledge that activists usually have a
- 3:24Speaker 3: multitude of jobs.
- 3:26Speaker 1: They have their day job. They have their activism. They're
- 3:29Speaker 1: a parent.
- 3:30Speaker 3: And I was wondering if you could speak to some
- 3:32Speaker 3: of the people that you've been around or worked with
- 3:34Speaker 3: who have really inspired you, who are those everyday people
- 3:38Speaker 3: with a list of responsibilities on top of the activism
- 3:41Speaker 3: they're trying to do.
- 3:42Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 3:43Speaker 2: I mean, one that I constantly bring up right here
- 3:46Speaker 2: in New York is Kevin Livingston. He's a phenomenal father.
- 3:51Speaker 2: He's a great friend. He's doing work, but he's also
- 3:56Speaker 2: doing work with youth. He's going to Rikers, but he
- 3:59Speaker 2: shows up every day and he's not the person that's, hey,
- 4:03Speaker 2: I'll wait till I get to a better place. It was, no,
- 4:06Speaker 2: we have to address the issues in our community now.
- 4:10Speaker 2: I think about the work that the Lower East Side
- 4:11Speaker 2: Girls Club is doing. Phenomenal organization. They have their jobs,
- 4:16Speaker 2: they have their work that they're doing, but they still
- 4:19Speaker 2: show up for the community on a consistent basis. And
- 4:22Speaker 2: what I think that speaks to is it's not a
- 4:25Speaker 2: space of, hey, I have to get to a certain
- 4:28Speaker 2: place to be involved. The reality is we all have
- 4:32Speaker 2: to be involved, and that's how society works, and that's
- 4:34Speaker 2: how it should be working. And we have to push
- 4:36Speaker 2: the bounds in fighting for each other and making sure
- 4:39Speaker 2: we're building a society that works for everyone.
- 4:50Speaker 3: I absolutely agree because I think that whether people like
- 4:53Speaker 3: it or not, you're already involved. It's just about what
- 4:55Speaker 3: you do about it. If you live in this country,
- 4:59Speaker 3: if you're a member of any group, you are already
- 5:02Speaker 3: involved with whatever the issues are of that group. And
- 5:05Speaker 3: one of the things that you talk about in the
- 5:07Speaker 3: book is almost it feels like in equal parts. You
- 5:12Speaker 3: talk about football and the activism. And that's one of
- 5:16Speaker 3: the things that made me ask the question about when
- 5:18Speaker 3: you have that sort of hybrid career of activism on
- 5:21Speaker 3: top of something else. And you have a real love
- 5:26Speaker 3: for football. You have a real passion for it as
- 5:30Speaker 3: a sport. And you talk about being on a team
- 5:34Speaker 3: and the type of character building you get from being
- 5:36Speaker 3: on a team and everything.
- 5:38Speaker 1: And it made me wish I could play. I'll tell
- 5:40Speaker 1: you right now.
- 5:41Speaker 3: It made me, like, even as you were writing about it,
- 5:44Speaker 3: I was like, man, if I could just handle a tackle,
- 5:46Speaker 3: I would.
- 5:49Speaker 2: Be a problem, you know? See, we'll get you in
- 5:51Speaker 2: as a slot receiver. That would be a great place.
- 5:54Speaker 1: To receive the ball?
- 5:55Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
- 5:57Speaker 1: Dad, no, look.
- 5:59Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you right now, I got you
- 6:02Speaker 3: on waters.
- 6:04Speaker 1: Waters. I got the team covered.
- 6:08Speaker 3: But I find so interesting in here that when people
- 6:13Speaker 3: read the book, they might think that the book through
- 6:15Speaker 3: and through is just about the time in which you
- 6:19Speaker 3: are taking the knee and you're fighting.
- 6:22Speaker 1: With the NFL and your fight as a whole.
- 6:26Speaker 3: And what's actually happening, without giving anything away, is that
- 6:30Speaker 3: there are a lot of parts of the book that
- 6:31Speaker 3: really talk about the lead-up. And not just the lead-up
- 6:35Speaker 3: as in maybe tensions or something. The actual lead-up as
- 6:38Speaker 3: in your career as a player.
- 6:42Speaker 1: And what I really like about that is that oftentimes
- 6:45Speaker 1: when a story is told, you.
- 6:48Speaker 3: You end up just seeing the nugget that's like the headline.
- 6:53Speaker 3: And then there's so much that leads up to it.
- 6:55Speaker 3: Because I think that in order to understand what someone's sacrificing,
- 7:00Speaker 3: you have to understand how much they have and how
- 7:02Speaker 3: much they love the thing that they're sacrificing. Do you
- 7:05Speaker 3: think that in light of everything that's happened, that the
- 7:11Speaker 3: stakes of the sacrifice would be the same for you? Like,
- 7:13Speaker 3: let's say you could go back in time Are there
- 7:17Speaker 3: things that you feel like, would I even have talked
- 7:21Speaker 3: to this person? Or because I know now these things
- 7:24Speaker 3: maybe wouldn't go differently, would I make some of the
- 7:26Speaker 3: same moves? Or do you feel like everything in the
- 7:30Speaker 3: lead-up was pretty perfect for the journey?
- 7:36Speaker 2: If I went back and had to do it over again,
- 7:40Speaker 2: there's two things that come to mind as far as
- 7:42Speaker 2: how I would have approached it. One, if I knew
- 7:46Speaker 2: on the other side of the protest how big it
- 7:48Speaker 2: would become. I would have done so much more organizing
- 7:52Speaker 2: in advance. Because you don't know what's on the other
- 7:57Speaker 2: side of it. But you have your conviction, you have
- 7:59Speaker 2: your beliefs, and you know you have to take action.
- 8:01Speaker 2: So I would have done that to make sure that
- 8:05Speaker 2: I had all the pieces in place to be successful.
- 8:09Speaker 2: The other part that I go back and forth on
- 8:11Speaker 2: is because there was a lot of misinformation, there was
- 8:15Speaker 2: a lot of attacks, oftentimes I tried to keep the
- 8:19Speaker 2: focus on Here's the issue we're trying to address. And
- 8:23Speaker 2: in large part, ignored a lot of the attacks. I
- 8:26Speaker 2: think at times that could cause some confusion or blurring
- 8:29Speaker 2: of lines or creating a fog. And I think about,
- 8:33Speaker 2: should I have just gone at people and gone head on?
- 8:37Speaker 2: And I still don't think that would be the right move,
- 8:41Speaker 2: but I do think about that and what would be
- 8:45Speaker 2: on the other side of it if I did take
- 8:47Speaker 2: that approach.
- 8:48Speaker 3: I hear you, because I think what's important about noticing
- 8:52Speaker 3: that is that almost all the activism that we look
- 8:57Speaker 3: to for inspiration or that really brought about some major
- 9:03Speaker 3: changes wasn't planned perfectly.
- 9:06Speaker 1: It was literally, like you said, just people being fed up.
- 9:09Speaker 3: Because, yeah, I mean, if you would have known how
- 9:14Speaker 3: big of an impact it would have.
- 9:15Speaker 1: You might have taken two knees. You might have been like, wow!
- 9:18Speaker 1: You know?
- 9:21Speaker 3: I'm also, I'm curious because I am so truly on
- 9:25Speaker 3: the outside of the world of professional football and professional
- 9:30Speaker 3: sports in general. For people who don't know, because I'm
- 9:34Speaker 3: only barely familiar now, can you tell us what the
- 9:37Speaker 3: combine is?
- 9:41Speaker 2: So I would say, as I thought about the combine
- 9:44Speaker 2: and coming on here, I was like, Josh is going
- 9:48Speaker 2: to have a run of skits after this. The combine
- 9:53Speaker 2: is like your final stepping stone before you get drafted
- 9:57Speaker 2: into the NFL. So that's like almost your final interception.
- 10:00Speaker 1: Process.
- 10:02Speaker 2: What everyone sees is the 40-yard dash, the vertical jump,
- 10:06Speaker 2: some of the skill drills on the field. But there's
- 10:08Speaker 2: three days before that. And that's where you're getting interviewed.
- 10:13Speaker 2: They're doing your medical exams. But as part of that,
- 10:18Speaker 2: you walk across stage in your draws. And that's one
- 10:21Speaker 2: of the things they ask you to do. It's like,
- 10:24Speaker 2: everybody lined up, like stripped down, it's time to walk across.
- 10:29Speaker 1: For who?
- 10:34Speaker 2: For the scouts, for the organizations. Like that's part of
- 10:38Speaker 2: the process. See, this is why I knew the skits
- 10:42Speaker 2: were going to be coming up.
- 10:45Speaker 1: And so you do the walk, and then what else?
- 10:47Speaker 1: What are some of the other?
- 10:48Speaker 2: So there's that. And then part of the interviews, the
- 10:53Speaker 2: questions that they'll ask you often have nothing to do
- 10:58Speaker 2: with your ability to go out and play football. So
- 11:01Speaker 2: questions that have been asked at the Combine are, are
- 11:04Speaker 2: you gay? Is your mom a prostitute? After 2016, it was,
- 11:11Speaker 2: how do you feel about Colin Kaepernick? So the questions
- 11:16Speaker 2: are more so to get insight into what you're willing
- 11:21Speaker 2: to tolerate. And in many ways, how malleable are you?
- 11:26Speaker 2: Will you be obedient? Will you fall in line? And
- 11:29Speaker 2: that's what the first three days of the combine really
- 11:32Speaker 2: feels like, is how far can we push you? will
- 11:37Speaker 2: you just follow the directions we tell you to do,
- 11:40Speaker 2: of what we tell you to do?
- 11:42Speaker 1: Jeez, and so then, yeah, and then, yeah, nobody sees
- 11:47Speaker 1: that other part. Not all.
- 11:49Speaker 2: That is all behind the scenes. What gets put on
- 11:51Speaker 2: camera is, oh, did you see that 40-yard dash time?
- 11:54Speaker 3: Yeah.
- 11:54Speaker 2: Did you see that vertical jump? Like, looks amazing. This
- 11:58Speaker 2: is like the time of your life.
- 11:59Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 12:00Speaker 2: But you walk into it and you're like, all right,
- 12:02Speaker 2: this is the final interview before I reach my dream.
- 12:05Speaker 2: And this is going to decide... If I get drafted
- 12:08Speaker 2: in the first round or the seventh round or not
- 12:10Speaker 2: at all. So as a player, like, well, if you
- 12:15Speaker 2: tell me I have to jump through these hoops to
- 12:17Speaker 2: get to my dream and this is the final interview,
- 12:20Speaker 2: players look around and they're like, yeah, this is weird.
- 12:23Speaker 2: And I don't know why we have to do this,
- 12:24Speaker 2: but like my dream's right there. So you go and
- 12:28Speaker 2: you chase your dream. But when you talk to players
- 12:31Speaker 2: in retrospect, most of the combine has... nothing to do
- 12:36Speaker 2: with your ability to actually go out on the field
- 12:38Speaker 2: and play.
- 12:39Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 12:40Speaker 3: I mean, this is just my opinion, but I really
- 12:43Speaker 3: feel like the only people who should own teams are
- 12:48Speaker 3: the people that played.
- 12:49Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
- 12:50Speaker 3: Because when you think about it, it's like it's weird
- 12:51Speaker 3: to kind of have this owner that's this tiny man.
- 12:53Speaker 1: And he's like, why aren't all of you faster? It's
- 12:58Speaker 1: like that's... It feels odd. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
- 13:08Speaker 1: When it comes to your memoir, do you feel like
- 13:12Speaker 1: there is a.
- 13:15Speaker 3: Takeaway that you really want people to have from having
- 13:19Speaker 3: read it that is maybe not so much on the surface? Like,
- 13:23Speaker 3: someone will buy this book and think, I'm going to
- 13:25Speaker 3: learn about Colin, obviously. But is there something else embedded
- 13:29Speaker 3: in it that you feel like is something that you
- 13:32Speaker 3: really put in there with intent, even if you didn't
- 13:34Speaker 3: say the words exactly?
- 13:36Speaker 2: Yeah, the part that I hope people walk away with
- 13:40Speaker 2: is that every one of us can have a significant impact.
- 13:45Speaker 2: And we have the agency and opportunity to go out
- 13:47Speaker 2: and do that. But it's that impact doesn't live in
- 13:52Speaker 2: like a big moment. It lives in all the little
- 13:55Speaker 2: decisions you make day to day. How you show up,
- 13:59Speaker 2: how you're engaging people, what you allow to slide and
- 14:03Speaker 2: what you don't.
- 14:06Speaker 1: All of those.
- 14:06Speaker 2: Decisions become opportunities to be able to improve, to be
- 14:10Speaker 2: able to make people around you better, and ultimately build
- 14:13Speaker 2: to moments that may have an impact that becomes significant.
- 14:18Speaker 2: So I hope people walk away feeling that sense of
- 14:21Speaker 2: power and agency and have an understanding of how they
- 14:25Speaker 2: can get there.
- 14:26Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
- 14:28Speaker 3: Because I think one of the main reasons that people
- 14:31Speaker 3: don't necessarily get involved on top of a misunderstanding of
- 14:34Speaker 3: how much time something will take or if they are up.
- 14:38Speaker 1: To the challenge.
- 14:39Speaker 3: Because I think a lot of people get thrust in
- 14:42Speaker 3: an activist position almost in a way of like a
- 14:44Speaker 3: movie where it's like, this was just the person that
- 14:46Speaker 3: was like, we're not gonna take it anymore.
- 14:49Speaker 1: And then everybody else is like, yeah, we, like just
- 14:51Speaker 1: behind them. You know what I mean?
- 14:54Speaker 3: And I think that the other fear besides like not
- 14:58Speaker 3: being able to meet the moment that a lot of
- 14:59Speaker 3: people have is what it'll cost. And I guess I'm
- 15:03Speaker 3: curious on your end, like, What would you say to
- 15:06Speaker 3: people who have that fear that is so purely about
- 15:09Speaker 3: what the cost will be versus maybe what the outcome
- 15:12Speaker 3: will be?
- 15:13Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we have to reframe the risk assessment.
- 15:19Speaker 2: And oftentimes it's what do I have to lose? But
- 15:24Speaker 2: there's also the question of what do we have to gain?
- 15:27Speaker 2: And within that risk, the opportunity for that outcome, to
- 15:32Speaker 2: your point, that is significant. And In many ways the
- 15:36Speaker 2: parallel of that risk is while there may be personal
- 15:39Speaker 2: risk in this, what is the risk to the rest
- 15:42Speaker 2: of our community if we don't take action? Does that
- 15:46Speaker 2: mean another person doesn't make it home? Does that mean
- 15:49Speaker 2: another person doesn't have healthcare? Another person is incarcerated? Another
- 15:54Speaker 2: person isn't able to put food on the table? All
- 15:57Speaker 2: of those become risks of inaction. I think taking it
- 16:02Speaker 2: from that perspective and that standpoint allows you to go
- 16:06Speaker 2: out and say, well, I don't want that risk. I'm
- 16:09Speaker 2: not accepted of that. So I'm gonna go take action
- 16:11Speaker 2: against it. Now on the personal side, this is where
- 16:15Speaker 2: I think the collective action becomes important. To your point,
- 16:19Speaker 2: if everybody steps back, then it's like, oh, well, you
- 16:22Speaker 2: did this, so we could isolate you. If everybody steps up,
- 16:27Speaker 2: then it becomes, well, we can't single anybody out. So
- 16:31Speaker 2: the risk becomes drastically less because they can't target everybody.
- 16:38Speaker 2: So I think that's how movements are built. That's how
- 16:40Speaker 2: we should be thinking about action, but also how we
- 16:43Speaker 2: think about the risk assessment within it.
- 16:44Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 16:58Speaker 3: I'm not going to ask you to name any names,
- 16:59Speaker 3: unless you want to. But it's been 10 years, and
- 17:03Speaker 3: in that 10 years, so much has happened. I'm curious
- 17:06Speaker 3: on your end if there are people who, if we're
- 17:10Speaker 3: talking within the league or just that you know professionally,
- 17:13Speaker 3: that had a viewpoint or a stance initially that have
- 17:19Speaker 3: surprised you, or maybe people where things have come full circle.
- 17:24Speaker 1: Because I just look at your... sacrifice could be seen,
- 17:29Speaker 1: like you said, as just yours.
- 17:31Speaker 3: But the pressure is still the pressure cooker that all
- 17:35Speaker 3: of you are or were under. And so I'm wondering
- 17:39Speaker 3: if there's any instance of someone where you had a
- 17:42Speaker 3: conversation years later that you found moved you from maybe
- 17:49Speaker 3: where they were initially.
- 17:55Speaker 2: I'll say I've seen this a little bit on both
- 17:56Speaker 2: sides of it. There are conversations that I had early
- 18:01Speaker 2: on that like, oh, I'm supporting and I want to
- 18:06Speaker 2: be with you on this that later came around and
- 18:11Speaker 2: were working counter to us. And that was a learning
- 18:15Speaker 2: process and experience. And oftentimes that came about because of
- 18:23Speaker 2: the opportunities that were put in front of them. That, hey,
- 18:27Speaker 2: if we get you to do these things, it'll be
- 18:30Speaker 2: financially beneficial for you. And we see people sway there.
- 18:35Speaker 2: On the flip side, this is probably one of the
- 18:41Speaker 2: areas that I did not expect As I've gone around
- 18:45Speaker 2: the country, there have been more and more people, I'd
- 18:49Speaker 2: say primarily southern states, that would come up and be like,
- 18:54Speaker 2: I initially hated you. But I've seen what you've been doing,
- 19:01Speaker 2: and I've had more conversations. And coming out the other side, like,
- 19:06Speaker 2: I was wrong. And I was wrong about you and
- 19:09Speaker 2: what you were trying to accomplish. and seeing people swing
- 19:12Speaker 2: like that. So it's been interesting to see that dynamic
- 19:16Speaker 2: play out. And then the final piece, I've also seen
- 19:21Speaker 2: people that have just been steadfast the entire time. And
- 19:25Speaker 2: the one that immediately comes to mind is Eric Reid,
- 19:27Speaker 2: who was the first one to take a knee with me,
- 19:30Speaker 2: continued protesting after I was blackballed. His last season, he
- 19:35Speaker 2: went out and set two franchise records for the Carolina
- 19:38Speaker 2: Panthers and was cut and never saw the field again.
- 19:42Speaker 2: So I've seen kind of full range of spectrum of
- 19:47Speaker 2: people going from supporters to working against us, people who
- 19:51Speaker 2: initially were counter to us coming around and seeing the light.
- 19:56Speaker 2: And then also people like Eric who have been steadfast
- 19:59Speaker 2: the entire time, even at personal expense.
- 20:03Speaker 3: I think all of this, I think whether it's your
- 20:06Speaker 3: activism or Just, you know, what you have as a legacy,
- 20:11Speaker 3: as a player, everything that you put into the book,
- 20:13Speaker 3: I think it shines through everything that you do.
- 20:15Speaker 1: And so I'm so thankful for you to be here
- 20:17Speaker 1: with us and everything. Thank you so much.
- 20:19Speaker 2: Thank you.
- 20:19Speaker 1: It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. The Perilous
- 20:26Speaker 1: Fight is available now. Colin Kaepernick!