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The Mentor Sessions: Focus on the Path, Not the Obstacles · The Mentor Sessions

• Rick Ruppenthal: one of my metaphors I like to use is is a skier skiing through through the the the trees, the forest. The only reason why he doesn't hit a tree is because he's always focused on the path. And if you focus on trees, you're gonna hit trees. and that's part of what I teach is this is this sense of where are we focusing on? Are we focusing on your problems, on the trees, or are we focusing on the pathway? BigMike Coyle: None of us become who we're meant to be alone. Every story has people who helped write it. So let's talk about them. Welcome to the Mentor Sessions. BigMike: let's get started here is Rick Rupenthal. Did I Ruper yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: Perfect, perfect. BigMike: So Rick, why don't you go ahead jump in it? Tell us a little about your journey and and what it is and how you got to where you are today. Rick Ruppenthal: well, I got I got here today by everything that has happened to me over the last I won't say say my age, but I'm not ancient either. but yeah, I mean I I it's hard to know where where to begin because so much of what you know, when you sent the questions there was so much that came up over over the my mind about, you know, where where did it all begin? Like when when did I really notice things differently? But I mean from from my professional side of things, I think everything prepared me for the world of being a paramedic. led me up to the to the time. It's because I was I was offered a a chance to join the ranks And I thought, nah, there's no way I could ever do something like that. And then it wasn't until about five years after that that something sparked in me that actually it was it was the unit chief in our local area saw something in me, saw something that would that the work would be quite suitable for me. And of course I didn't quite see it that way. But when I got into it and when I was allowed to sort of be with my first patient and because during the training you kind of watch and then you kind of do a little bit, but when it was my turn to to to do the diagnosis and stuff, I knelt down in front of the patient and reached over and took a radial pulse, and that was the moment. I just Yes, this is the career for me. This is what I wanted to do. It just felt like a calling. It was just like all the cards just kind of lined up and said, I guess this is the time, this is the place, and just fell in love with the career. Just fell in love with it. And then spent the BigMike: You know, Rick Ruppenthal: next thirty years doing it. BigMike: You know, you brought up something really interesting and and this is something that I've shared and talked about my own career in law enforcement is There comes a point. I I like the way you described it and I don't know if I could go to that exact moment but for me, but you realize that I'm not just doing a job. This is what the universe, the creator, however you want to word it, this is my calling, this is what I was put here. you talked about the unit chief that saw something in you. tell me a little about him. That kinda sounds like a great start into mentoring journeys that we like to talk about. Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. And and I never recognized it as a mentoring journey. I like I never connected all the dots until much later. but there was there was something and he's and he's still a good friend and I and I'm so grateful for him reaching out. because there's there's something that sometimes holds us back. Where we sort of pre-qualify somebody and we go, they don't want to do that. Or they won't, you know, kind of a thing. And and I and that was the big that was one big less. I mean, I had many lessons, obviously. I mean, you you you can't help but have a lesson in this work. But one that really stuck with me was the idea of not pre-qualifying people, not slapping a label on them right away. And and there was something about him being so open. you know, and and he might have been motivated to you know, as far as, you know, making sure that he had enough manpower for for the ambulances in the area and things like that. But but just the way he treated me, just you know, he was my first instructor. and just the way he was so understanding, understood, you know, the apprehension, the initial fear walking into the unknown, dealing with the uncertainty, the constant uncertainty. Even though that you know you're being called to something as as you know with a police in the police my my sisters all spent many years in the RCMP. and we share a lot of stories and they're quite similar. A lot of times we're told by dispatch what we're going to and and it isn't isn't exactly what you're being BigMike: No, I like to that that's funny, I like to tell a story that was told to me, and it was by Utah Highway Patrol and the the trooper got dispatched to a vehicle accident with a small brush fire, I think is how the dispatch told Well, Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. BigMike: it was on a a stretch of road that is has worn the label the most dangerous stretch of highway in the United States for a long time, Rick Ruppenthal: Mm. BigMike: Utah Highway Six. Well what it was is a semi truck that was carrying dynamite from a dynamite plant had rolled, exploded. so there was a brush fire where it was, but it was there was also like a a huge crater in the highway. and I think if I recall right, everybody walked away. But yeah. You get called to you get dispatched to one thing and it's a totally different when you show up it's a it's a totally different situation, you know, that that you're walking into. And I'm sure you experience that a lot, maybe more so as a a paramedic, an EMT, because when you get on the you know, they're they're getting information by the caller and you're playing the game of telephone and you think Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. BigMike: you're going to you know, maybe maybe a small laceration or you know, and next thing you know, the the guy's missing half his arm. And y you you Rick Ruppenthal: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: gotta prepare for a whole different trauma scene there. Rick Ruppenthal: And and yeah, and that that's what the Unich his name is Bruce, really bestowed on us in the beginning, that, you know, when you when you hear hoofs, don't expect zebras, you know, kind of a thing. And and to be prepared for uncertainty, not to get pigeonholed into, well, it's gotta be this. And you know, and again, like a lot of things just kinda melded towards, you know, as I went through my career, but one of the concepts that I I I I I coach, you know, and and and still mentor is the idea that we are more than capable of showing up and responding accordingly. When we can sort of let go of some of our perceived perceptions around you know, what we think we might expect or an a or have an agenda going in, the less we hold on to, the more we can just show up, see what's going on, and then respond accordingly. And instead of you know, trying to, it's a it's a chest pain, but the guy's short of breath and and but I'm gonna focus on the chest pain and not the fact that he's short of breath. Because that's what I was told I was going for. You know. BigMike: Right. Right. And that's such an important part. and we can take that out extrapolate that and take it outside of the first responder community because Rick Ruppenthal: Absolutely. BigMike: that's such an important life lesson. We get pre se preconceived notions as to the who what where's and whys. And when we show up and we interact, sometimes we're so fixated, like you said, on the chest pain. We're missing everything else behind the story. We're missing everything else about the person and and what they're going through and and their journeys. so let me ask you, and and maybe we can get to this more in depth as we go, but you talked about like well, you did this for over thirty years. And when you first came in and that first patient, you're like, yeah, this is why I'm here, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Over that time period, over that thirty years, when did you start to realize that this was having a profound effect on you personally? Rick Ruppenthal: Well I knew it was having Well, if it it's funny when you say the word profound, because I've I've I've had some really mixed experiences. When I when I about ten years in I blew my back out and was told that by the doctor at the time that I I should find something else to do. Well when you're when you're called to do something and you feel that BigMike: Right. I I went I went through the same thing in my law enforcement career. I had to have two back surgeries and the second one really messed me up mentally because not only you know I I I enjoy lifting heavy weights, I love working out and I had a a nurse tell me after an appointment, yeah, you're done. You know, you can't find you can't do your job anymore. Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: you know, you you can't lift weights anymore, you're done. And boy, that really s sent me spiraling, you know, like Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: and because it it becomes more than just a job. It's a jol it's a it's a calling. It's a it becomes a part of your identity and your personality. So yeah, I can imagine how you took that news when they said, Yeah, you gotta find something else to do Rick Ruppenthal: Yes. And and I just like you, I did spiral. I actually, you know, I fell into some depression and a a huge amount of uncertainty. I mean we all we're we're all craving certainty in our lives, right? We're like like we want some assurances, right? We wanna we wanna have hope. and and and the my relationship with uncertainty at the time was like it was huge. It's like, okay, now what? You know, I'm I'm I'm raising four young daughters at the time, you know, I'm married, you know, you've got all the things that are going with it, and paramedics don't make a huge amount of money. you know, so a lot of things were were heavily on my mind. So much so I couldn't see clearly. And it it was another friend of mine, that sort of kind of pointed out that maybe it's not true. Maybe Maybe this isn't the end. Maybe you could pivot, you know, you could still be in emergency services. Have you looked at dispatching? Has you looked at various other things, right? And so what that did for me was it started to crumble the idea that there were there is a possible future. It may not look the way I envisioned it to be, or the way I wanted it to be, but there was a future. And that kind of relaxed me a little bit. So I I just sort of let things go in the sense of trying to f figure out my future. and went through the process of healing. So I went through the you know, whatever they told me to do, I did. But the pain never went away. Like it was I couldn't walk for five minutes, I couldn't stand for five minutes. You know you know back pains are like like it's crazy. but there was something interesting with the physiotherapist. The physiotherapist was almost like my another teacher. It was another individual kind of a thing. And I started to ask him a lot more questions around the nature of my pain because there's there's pain but then there's suffering of pain. And I could suffer pain. I could I could just go, okay, woe is me. You know, this is it. I'll just be a cripple for the rest of my life and then you know, whatever happens, happens. And we've heard horror stories, right, where people have got locked into that world. But there was something in me that sort of said, Well, is it really true that I'm done? Is it really true that I w I'll never go back to being a paramedic? And so I started to hear this gentler question coming through, which I asked the physiotherapist who had a had a pretty good relationship at this point, and I said, What is it with this pain? I said There's pain that can tell you to stop. basically saying I'm doing you're doing more damage so so stop. What is this pain? Is this pain telling me that I'm doing more damage? Or is it just is it just pain? And he said, Well actually it's just pain. It's just it's just scar tissue. And I said so you're certain that I'm not doing any more damage? Because that's the last thing you want to do is hurt yourself more. And he said, No. All you're doing is you're feeling the pain of the scar tissue. And somewhere in that gave me permission to take the pain for a walk. It gave me permission to not stop when I felt the discomfort of the pain. And even though it was uncomfortable, and earlier, you know, it would be uncomfortable, stop. Now it's uncomfortable. Well just keep see if you can do another step. See if you can do another step. And eventually ten minutes, twenty minutes, half an hour. Walking around the block now. BigMike: Yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: and within a short period of time, something just d like almost like a snap. I don't know f physically what happened, but I felt no pain. And I went back to the physio person and I said, Look, I got no pain. And he says, Really? He says, I don't know, halfway through my walk around the block, it just felt good. And I mean, long story short, I I got back lifting patients and stretchers again, you know, kind of a thing, and finished my career. But it taught me a huge lesson, not only in not taking the first diagnosis, but but just sort of doubting some of the things that I was believing to be true. And running running that as my reality. And you know, 'cause it was it would be so easy to grab that that reality and and I know many people do and I and I coach a lot of people that are stuck on a reality of no hope, no future, I'm stuck in my my circumstances. And to realize that, you know, I'm not my pain, I'm not the circumstances, you know, I'm much more and greater than that. opened up the possibility to experience something different. In in this case they experienced something different about pain. BigMike: You know that's so valid for not just physical pain. we see that all the time, right? Like Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: As soon as we start hurting and and you put it perfectly, that's when you're like, I'm hurting, I gotta stop and then you just give yourself permission to go one more step, two more steps, and next thing you know you're you're going around the block pain free and you you start reliving again without the pain and and the expectation. But pain because we're told once you start feeling pain you need to quit doing what you're doing. And now when we we convert that to lifestyles and telling people, hey, don't you don't have to feel this pain that's in your life. One, this doesn't define you. Just give yourself permission one more day, one more you know, five more minutes even, you start to see that that return of hope in people's eyes. And the growth because you know, they they taught us in in football and weightlifting and stuff like that, you know, that the pain is the muscle growing. And once you start to accept that and learn that it really really shows when you were able to start lifting those patients again and start doing your job, how did that help shift mindset and help did that help bring you out of that depression? Rick Ruppenthal: hundred well hundred percent. I mean I see one of the things One of the things that I I I learned real quickly or what I observed in the beginning was the varied experiences that everybody was having in the world of paramedicine. And you you probably realize that in in the police world too, is that not everybody had those same experiences that you were having. Like your partner could be in the same call doing the same thing and have a totally different experience. And I noticed that with with the number of people, you know, in the beginning your your your you had partner de jour, they would say, you know, partner of the day. you know, so y you always had a you know, a senior guy that was around for a while and things like that. And but Yeah, and then all of a sudden, yeah, exactly. BigMike: Then you realize you're the senior guy around. Rick Ruppenthal: And you go These kids talk funny all of a sudden. I I BigMike: Where's this Where's the senior guy? I guess that's me today. Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, exactly. But it's it it it's funny how that all of a sudden just happens. But it but it is interesting, you know, what I've what I noticed though w was that if if we're all having different experiences, then it it can't be the work that's that's that's doing it, you know, kind of thing. There has to be something going on. And my relationship with with you know, feelings, you talk about pain. Well, the mental pain is is something quite similar. Right. So so when we get what I would classify as insecure thinking, which is, you know, low mood thinking, which leads into depression and various other things, when people you're sober bang on and when you people identify themselves with that feeling, they start to ad define themselves with the feeling. And you know, Carl Jung, the father of psychology back in the fifties, said said none of this should ever define you. It only describes you in the moment. Like you're feeling depressed. Okay, I'm feeling depressed. I I'm not depression, I'm feeling depressed. And that opens up a whole new bandwidth of understanding. Like when the more I understood that you know, my feelings are just my feelings, it's a different relationship. It's it's and and then to notice that, yeah, okay, I was depressed there, you know, and then all of a sudden, why am I not depressed now? Like what's the difference? Well the biggest difference that I noticed was the heavy thinking I was holding on to. Like all that thinking about future, right? Of Doom and gloom and all this other kind of stuff. Well, that was really heavy and that was weighing me down. And of course, of course, if if I believed all that to be true, of course I'm gonna act accordingly. That's that's how it works. We always act on what we believe to be true. Why would we not? but when we challenge those beliefs and we notice that there's a window of opportunity here to see something different. And not only see something different, but also to experience something different. And so that's why I was able to take pain for a walk was because I was open to a different experience. I was open to something fresh and new. I had no idea if it was gonna happen or not, but I I I had enough, I guess, faith or trust in in knowing. And I think you're on it when you say giving yourself permission. You know, when I talk about people that identify a lot with their depression, the more they identify with with it, of course they want to isolate, of course they want to stay in bed, of course they want to do that. But when I say, you know, it it's it only describes what you're feeling. And the idea of participation is a function of of health, right? So when you notice that when you get caught up in your depressive thinking, you don't want to do anything. And really it's telling you that, you know, maybe you should be looking in a different direction. So like it is activity. So when I got busy again in a in a healthier way, I just felt healthy. And people people in my experience that I've been coaching, you know, that when they do take steps out of their bed or s take steps out of their bedroom, when they start doing the little things, the low hanging fruit, you know, doing dishes, getting dressed, just those little pieces of activity, they start to notice that they do feel lighter. And we tend to lean towards things that make us feel better. And so there's a natural progress in participating, getting back into your life that way. BigMike: I call that living intentionally, because, Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: you know, when I transitioned from working outside the house to setting this up at home and started this journey, I had to make sure I still take the opportunity to get up, shower, eat breakfast, work out, and not just mope around kind of fuddling around. I still do that sometimes. My wife will catch me doing that. But getting up and being intentional to keep and that helps keep me out of depression. I w I wanna ask you about your experience as you were getting out of that heavy thinking. How much did do you attribute that you were actually back in the service and you actually felt back into being of service of other people? How much do you think that helped too? Rick Ruppenthal: So BigMike: Did that question make sense to you? Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, it it did, but I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna slightly redirect it a little bit, okay? Because it it it and and this is where my my under my understanding has sort of sort of grown i over the years is that it's if if I look to the outside for how I feel then I'm saying it's it's the work that basically made me happy. It made me BigMike: That validated you. Yeah, I understand that. Rick Ruppenthal: get out of the depression, et cetera, et cetera, right? But if it's not an outside in job but more of an inside out job, then then then there's something because if everybody has all these different experiences, and this is my r my research around post traumatic stress, is not everybody, you know, out of the thirty five hundred paramedics in the province of British Columbia, not everybody's got post traumatic stress. So BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: you know, you know, to s to sort of go along the whole lines of of of saying, you know, well, it's the work, you know, it's the overload, it's the stress, to realize that it's that if it's not that, because we'd have more incidences if it was that, what is it? Well then it's our relationship, it's our thinking relationship with that work. So what I found was when I when I felt I was not broken when I realized I wasn't broken. That that when the heavy lip thinking went away, the natural my sort of hemostasis level, okay, where I was kind of balanced, that provided me my grounding. That provided me with all the confidence, the resilience, the well-being, that the contentment that I needed to get the job done. And so coming from that that space, the work just naturally felt better. If that makes any particular sense. So BigMike: Yeah Rick Ruppenthal: so BigMike: I I think that that makes perfect sense and I think of it kind of as a how do I wanna word this? two sides of the same coin, maybe, where Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: on because for me when I was able to finally get back into the career and highlight my my skills, my talents, my abilities and working with people and stuff like that And it while you're right, like the work doesn't define you in essence. It redirected my sense of purpose, if that if that makes sense, which fulfilled the fact that like, hey, I do have purpose, I do have meaning, and almost I have to get through this to make sure I am fulfilling that. calling, fulfilling that duty and that obligation, and not dwelling on the negative all the time. Rick Ruppenthal: Well it it Well and and and so one of my what one of my metaphors I like to use is is a skier skiing through through the the the trees, the forest. The only reason why he doesn't hit a tree is because he's always focused on the path. BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: And if you focus on trees, you're gonna hit trees. BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: And so, you know, and that's part part of what I what I teach is this is this sense of where are we focusing on? Are we focusing on your problems, on the trees, or are we focusing on the pathway? So so when you say about the work, what I found was that the work became an expression of my health, as opposed to it being my health. So when I showed up, I showed up in that in that in that balanced kind of a thing so I could do what I needed to do. So people I used to you know people used to like how how could you be so calm? And I would say, Well how come you aren't calm? It's like well well we're going to a motor vehicle accident. Yes. Well aren't you worried about what we're gonna see? And I go Why like why would you want to? Like you know, like like we think we have this habit that if we worry about something, that means we care about it and somehow it prepares us, right? And all it does is just keeps removing us from where our natural state is, is to, hey, I'm at my best in the zone. You remember you know that zone piece, right? You're right where BigMike: yeah, one hundred percent. And and you make a great point. you know, those and and they're probably the the younger medics, in my line of work, they were the younger younger deputies, younger jailers and stuff like that. They sit there and they're focusing on, okay, well, if X I gotta do Y but there comes that point where it almost becomes an autopilot type thing because you've trained it. You know what's gonna happen on a on a motor vehicle accident, you know what's gonna happen in a since I worked in the jail most of my career in a in a cell disturbance and stuff like that. You have to trust that you you have the training, skills and knowledge and the confidence, right? That the confidence is the ki the culmination of this training and the skills and the knowledge to just go in, shut off the brain that allows you to think like, well what about this? What about that? You just Go off, shut off the brain and let the let the the the autopilot take over to help you come to a safe resolution. You know, so when you show up on that motor vehicle scene, you're like, All right, here's what we know. Here's all right, we gotta do an extraction. Is her head safe? You know, what and and then the people that are second guessing themselves, you know, in my career in law enforcement, Those are the ones that tend to get hurt or other people get hurt because they're not willing to just let that training and that knowledge and those skills absorb. and you know, so I I agree one hundred percent on that and I've seen it play out in incidences outside of being on the badge, but you know, being in situations where with my wife and She's hyperventilating and and freaking out and she's like, Why aren't you and I'm like, This is what I know. This is my my my norm. You know, so Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: I'm I'm fine here. And you know, there's other times where she knows her norm and I'm the one freaking out and I have to rely on her strength there. Rick Ruppenthal: I I use a a metaphor of a s of a snow globe. BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: as as when we start to shake the snow globe, which is basically we start to overthink things, we get caught up in the snowstorm. And it and it and it starts to look like I need to do something about the snowstorm. I need to get in there and manage the thinking, manage the thoughts, right? I need to do something about it. Because one thing I know about being in in a snow globe snowstorm is you you barely can see things clearly, can you? BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: It's all clouded, right? But people don't get that. They think, I've gotta think harder, I gotta think my way through this problem, I gotta all this overthinking. But the best thing we can do about a snow globe if we want it settled, is to just stop shaking the darn thing. Like it's just 'cause it it naturally wants to settle. Well, what if our minds are geared the same way? It's our overthinking that keeps it shaking and all we need to do is just stop the kind of the overthinking things and re well, first of all we need to realize that we're overthinking. and then it'll naturally settle down. What's important is that when it settles down we have clarity, we have confidence, we're we're virtually in that zone state that we we we're all familiar with. It's the only thing around that we can't pinpoint with the zone state is how the hell did we even get there? You know, we BigMike: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: right? It's sort of like you can't think your way into the zone state. It's basically you show up and do the work. BigMike: Well, that was one of the things I'm sure you finally started to access and realize once you had more experience on the job, you'd gone to, you know, a hundred motor vehicle accidents or whatever. You start realizing, Okay, I know what this is, I know what I'm expected to do here and stuff like that. And then now like we we joked about earlier, y they used to always have a senior guy there and now you realize, that's me now. Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: for good better or worse When you started realizing that, I'm the senior guy now. I'm the one who's gotta take charge of the shift and stuff like that, what what did you want to instill on those younger medics and and those kids that were and and you know, I say kids because you and I both know that that's really how they kinda felt like once they started, but those younger medics, those those guys that were just learning the job and trying to figure out what to do, how did you instill in them that principle of like, okay, this y what you're feeling right now is normal for right now. But it's not going to be normal forever and you gotta learn to trust yourself. Does that make does that make sense the question I'm asking? Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, yeah. I mean first of all, when I first started, we there was a there there was a a cultural change that was just starting to come around. There was no such thing as post traumatic stress. There was burnout. Right. BigMike: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: there was also a thing called suck it up. get over it. there's another call holding and there was always another call holding in Vancouver. the sense of urgency. I picked up a huge lesson one time. when I first first got into the into the big city, the I wanted to save everybody. It was sort of like, you know If if this is my calling, I'm gonna save everybody. BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: And and I would sit and listen to the radio. And I and as you know, there are always hospital ways when when you're trying to offload a patient. And I'd be listening to the radio and thinking about, I should be out there. there's another call. shoot, it's just around the corner. you know, kind of a thing. And the senior guy at the time said to me, Look, you can only look after one person at a time. And it just hit me. It just sort of said, you know, he basically said, You can't do you can't save everybody. As hard as that was a lesson to learn, it was probably what I would say almost saved my life in the sense that again, the heavy thinking, right? The heavy thinking. I didn't realize what was going on at the time. But I was like, I gotta get out there, I gotta get out there. How can I get out there? And he said, Look, one patient at a time. Do your best. Focus here. Right? And that was that was one of the key lessons like I I carried forward. Like anytime I had an opportunity of sharing that. And it's not that I, you know, like here are you here's your lesson plan. It was when I saw them getting caught up in their thinking. When there when there was a sense of urgency. I kept reminding them, you know, we're we're not first reactors, we're first responders. There's a reason. Why why we we don't run into, you know, a scene. You know, we have to get a bigger picture. We have to have this relaxedness, right? and then it and then it was sort of like, you know, like we learned this on the field. Take this home with you too. Because it's the same thing. Like learn to relax at home. learn not to take things so personal, you know, when your first pay when the first patient dies on you, it's sort of like, what what what more could have I done? Right? Which just a which was turns out to be just a lot more heavy thinking. and then just having that lesson of sort of like, you know, not taking it so personal, going lighter than darker, you know, realizing the differences, right? You know, having having fun. in the in the work, not being mischievous, but having fun. and and then those were those were the key key lessons, you know, that anybody that came in, you know, if if it looked like it was getting serious, it was sort of like let's let's break the ice, you know, break the thinking habit basically. You know. BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: get get focused on what's present. learning how to how to not take the last call you did into the next call because BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: it was just gonna taint everything, you know. So BigMike: Well, to to bring that to a a lighter side of that thought, I'm a big golfer. Rick Ruppenthal: Mm. BigMike: and I I love to play golf. And one thing that I've had a hard time doing and I I really now focus on it when I'm out there on the course, and it's that same thing. I have to deal with the shot that's in front of me now. Not the one I just hit, not the one I'm going to hit, not the putt, not the green. Right now it's this shot. And and you look at your your most successful golfers, and I I know this is a lot different than dealing with calls because I've Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. BigMike: been there in those situations. It's right now I'm dealing with this situation and you know it's it's like you your your example of the snow globe is a perfect example. You gotta clear all the other thoughts out and deal with this shot right now. And and that's what helps your swing better, but that's what helps you respond and and be in that right moment at that time as I'm dealing with this moment right now. and that's that's probably the most important lesson because I think we are talking about you know, back when we first started and PTS was more of just considered burnout. And so many first responders, you work so much, you know, and you're always looking for overtime because Like you said, that they're not paying us the best, so you gotta cover that somehow. And it's so easy to get burned out because administration is fighting you, you're working with different crews, and you're go you're seeing the same horrible thing day after day, that it's easy to get burned out, and you take those emotions and those feelings home and you start realizing how much you're losing yourself. in the job and in in the position. So and we're not equating it to what we saw and what we did that day. You know, my my wife and I we had a my wife knew that every day when I came home from work when I was on day shifts, I would just go in the bedroom and kinda wait and she'd say, Hey dinner's ready and I might not come out because I still needed that transition time to transition from deputy Mike to husband father Mike. so that way I could now I've got a new golf shot and that's playing with the kids and and helping them grow in life instead of dealing with you know, some the people that were in custody, so Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. So s so one of the transitions that is starting to come through now is where we used to treat feelings as something to avoid. It's and it's not it's it's more of of an acceptance piece, right? That we're human for one thing. BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: Like we forget that we've got these these particular roles, you know, that in some form or fashion, because we've accepted these roles as our as our as our life calling, that we have to be some kind of Superman or superperson. that we don't we we don't have feelings, right? you have to put your feelings on the shelf to do this job. Like all these paradigms that we used to live in, right? and then to find out, because I later got into the educational side And and to learn that, you know, when people people were s being trained in the in the colleges that to expect that they were gonna get post traumatic stress. It wasn't a question of if, it was a question of when. And so again and BigMike: And how bad. And how bad. Rick Ruppenthal: and how bad, right? And sort of sort of like like wow, what are we setting these guys up for? Right? Like already they've got heavy thinking, right? They're coming in there, you know all just like we were when we were rookies, right? It's like I want to save the world. I love this job. I love the lights and sirens. I you know, I love being part of the news. I feel like I'm I've got a purpose. I'm I'm doing something of value. And now you're telling me that all this could be destroyed by a thing with four letters, you know, kind of a thing. You know, and and that that now I have to be prepared and vigil you know, it's like Talk about shaking a snow globe. You know? And and I remember those calls, you know, thinking, man, is this the one? Is this the one that's gonna put me over the edge? You know, am I gonna see something I'll never be able to forget? And and then to realize, you know, you've seen a lot that you haven't been able to forget, but it hasn't bothered you. And it's like, am I special? No, I'm not special. We're all built the same way, we've all got the same kind of minds. But my relationship has changed. But the meaning I've put on things has changed. I don't have a heavy thinking about it. Right. Now, now when I have these so-called triggers pop up, it's sort of like, that's interesting. They're it and and I'm not and I'm not worried that they're still there. Because a lot of people that I talk to are saying, well, their triggers are still there. And I go, so what? So what? Like that's part of your identity in the sense of that's what happened. Like your past is is that's part of your past, right? If if we could if there was one thing, and this is what I learned from from another mentor of mine, was if there was one thing that we could learn is not to be afraid of our feelings or our experiences, that alone could change the world. And then and so I started to, you know, not be afraid of Feeling this way, not to be afraid of feeling sad or in a low mood, because none of it lasts forever. And knowing it doesn't last forever keeps that window of hope open. And and yeah, you know, yeah, it was a shitty shot that I did last whole, but this is a brand new one. BigMike: Yep. Well, you know, and that's it. That's such an interesting point about like and and the way my wife and I describe it excuse me, is okay, it's time you know, when I'm when I'm down and stuff like that and when I'm struggling with something, I I always told her, like, look, I I'm a beat dog now. I'm gonna go lay in my corner, lick my wounds, so that way when it's time to go again I'm ready. you know, and and just accept that those feelings are there, that that hurts there. don't let it absorb you but, you know, like like a like a and I I don't say that dismissively, but like when a a dog's been, you know, kicked or been in a fight, you know, and and they go back to their den. They lick their wounds, they they wait till they get better and they're ready to go again. Because they have to have that survival instinct. They have to be ready to fight again. They can't just roll over and give up. And that's that's what's important for us to do, especially once once we know those that we have that stress, that we have that trauma, we have that that in us. It's it's a matter of like, okay, this is here now. Now I have to face it. Just like we have to face the back pain, just like we have to face everything else we're dealing with. losing a child, I don't think people can understand what that's like when you're on call and it's involving a child or an infant and there's nothing you can do for that family. How much that that hurts and how much that sits with you. seeing those dead children. but we have to be able to like, okay, this sucks and I accept that this sucks, but now that I've absorbed it, like you said, there's another call holding and it is time to go and take care of that next patient. And maybe hopefully have a better outcome. But just be ready for what the next call comes. Cause if I'm still thinking about the dead child when I go and I deal with the next call, I won't be one hundred percent on that next call. Rick Ruppenthal: No, you won't. And and there used to be like like like I said, the mindset was, you know, it's like okay, yes, it is, suck it up, right? You know, you you do have a next call. But there's something hard and harsh about that in the sense of it y you're not allowed to have that feeling. You're not allowed to have that feeling. Because it it's sort of like if you have that feeling, you're no you it's just gonna bug you for the rest of the day. Well How about let's try something different? How about how about you just have that feeling? Go ahead, have that shitty feeling. I know tides are up and down, right? BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: Clouds come and go. Weather, barometer, up and down. If I understand that that is just a natural process of being living as a human being, that you're gonna have your ups and downs. Like It is snakes and ladders. It is a roller coaster. I can I can handle it knowing that the down doesn't last forever. When I'm down, it feels like it's gonna last forever. But when I allow the fact that I can have this emotion and and then the minute, and this is the interesting part, Mike, like notice notice. You you don't notice it when you hit the zone, but you notice it when you come out of the zone. Right? 'Cause when you're in it, you're doing it. You're a being doing. You like you're BigMike: Yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: everything's right. It's just like do this, do this, right? But the the minute you notice, shit, I got this bit of a feeling going on, the minute you take one step forward onto the green or one step forward onto the T, that that one piece of action just somehow puts us puts us in there. So for me, and I'm and I'm not saying I have all the answers, but it but action seems to be one of the catalysts is taking that. Initial step, right? Is is sort of like again, your focus all of a sudden steers away. Nothing like unconsciously, like you you just you're focused on the path all of a sudden, and you find yourself in front of that next call. And like I said, I can't describe it. I know I've got several books behind me of people that have studied it, they've talked to law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics. They all recognize being in the zone, but none of them can tell ya how they got there BigMike: you you can't. And you know, my my life now as a as a as a football coach and st Rick Ruppenthal: wow. BigMike: stepping back on the football field at fifty one, you you find yourself going back in the zone. and you realize, you know, there's moments where in law enforcement for me, I know in in the medic service for you and then all different areas where You're hit with the situation and your brain just reacts because you're in that zone. You know? Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, yeah. BigMike: And people are like, man, how'd you know to do that? How'd you do? And you're like, what are you Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: talking about? And so that's kind of what brought me to that question that, like, when you were down and dealing with the back pain and and the the the snow globe of the unknown, if you will, Rick Ruppenthal: Yep, yep, yep. BigMike: how much did getting back in the service, or if you will, getting back in the zone, how much did that help? pull you out of that and realize, this is what I'm supposed to be doing and is if I focus on what's in front of me right now, I don't have It all clears up and starts opening up for me. Rick Ruppenthal: So so okay, yes. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? So well I was caught up in my snow globe, right? Thinking about the future, thinking about whatever whatever it is, okay? Realizing that there is no clarity in this point. Right? It looks like but there looks like there's a lot of things I need to do. There's a lot of urgency, there's a lot of worry, there's a lot of fearful thinking, doom and gloom. There's even depression, sadness, The minute there was an opening, when I realized, and this is the key word, is the realization that I'm in a funk. Because here's something interesting, Mike, that I've noticed. You can't be in a funk if you notice you're in a funk. You have to be separated from the funk to notice that you're in the funk. BigMike: yeah. You know, it's funny you say it like that because I have always, and I I never knew how to put a label on it, especially as a kid. and I think it's related to some of the trauma I experienced as a young man, would start having panic and anxiety attacks, and I could never figure out what it was. They just hit. when I was in corrections and law enforcement, you'd see people deal going through that and you're like, that's a panic attack. When I was able to start f recognizing those feelings with myself And just by saying, telling someone, maybe a coworker at the job or sending a text or or something or calling my wife or something and saying, Hey, I'm having a panic attack. And they're like, no, what you want to do? And I'm like, I just did it. I acknowledged what it was. And Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: and that like you said, you can't be in that moment when you're able to acknowledge and accept it, okay, this is what I'm doing, that starts breaking that cycle for you. Rick Ruppenthal: And it starts to settle the snow globe. BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: So so this is the this is the key thing, right? So when the snow globe gets settled, and I I'll just keep using this metaphor because I I I love it, is you start to see things clearly. And when you start to see things clearly, you also your bandwidth opens up and you start to hear what we might call wisdom or intuition or or our inner guide. GPS, whatever, something occurs to you that wouldn't have occurred to you while you were caught up in your thinking. So it it occurred to me to ask questions about my pain. It occurred to me to to to take different steps. It it occurred to me, and this is this is this is where the the if you want to call it a practice is just recognizing. If this is the the zone, let's say, or as close to the zone as I can get, then anything that I'm that's causing me to go away from there is is not helpful. So if if this is my best and it's only my thinking that removes me from there, then recognizing when it does naturally pulls me down to my Hemostasis. So the brain is always trying to regulate itself, just like every other organ. You eat too many cheeseburgers, it's gonna try and balance that out. You put too much stress in your brain, it's gonna try and do something out. And and it does it in whatever way it feels helpful. For you, it it might be isolation, it might be getting quiet, right? The worst thing that we can do is look to other addictions to BigMike: Well yeah. That's and it it's sad, that's where I think a lot of our colleagues tend to go to. They Rick Ruppenthal: tend to go to because it look yeah. BigMike: that's when they you know, I'm I'm sure you've had many colleagues that they step outside of their marriage, unfortunately, because they're looking for that well, nobody understands me like she does or Rick Ruppenthal: Sorry. Yeah. BigMike: you know, or they go into the bottle and they keep crawling deeper and deeper. Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, yeah. BigMike: And then that leads to other trouble. So I wanna ask you, when you started realizing that, you're the senior guy now, and you start seeing the younger kids, the the younger inexperienced medics and stuff like that, that they are stuck in the snow globe, how do you teach them to get out of that? What what do you say to them, you know, about, hey, this is where you are and this is what you need to do? Rick Ruppenthal: I asked them exactly what you were saying about anxiety. Is I I pointed out. Like I don't s I don't I don't say, you're you are doing this kind of a thing. I would sort of say, you know, I mean it's a variety of different things. It's s more in the moment, right? And you know, I say are you getting caught up in your thinking? Are you overthinking this? Are you making it more than what's necessary? You know? Are you too far in the future? You know, kind of a thing. you know, they'd go quiet and I say, you're you're quiet, you know, and they say, Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about it. I said, Are you are you thinking about that last call? And I said, Yeah. And I said, Okay. So what about that last call? Like what like not too not too the minute you say it's like anything. And we we tend to lean towards the negative. So if I tell you don't think about white elephants BigMike: You think about white elephants. Yeah. No, I that's Rick Ruppenthal: Exactly. So BigMike: one percent. And I like the way you asked that question. Okay, what about that last call? And Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. Yeah. BigMike: and you know that allows for those teachable moments. Well, you know, I could have done this, I could have done that. Okay. But now you know the next time you show up on that scene, that's what you get to do, because you get to retrain and reprocess that that thing. So and and you're able to allow them. So I I like how you you present that like, okay, I can tell you're you're not here with me right now. What and you know, all right, well what about that? How can how could we have done that, you know, and let them solve problem solve it and accept it and have those feelings. That's a that's a great great way to understand it and describe it. Rick Ruppenthal: And and and you and if you think of the way the way it was taught before was don't think that. BigMike: Yep. Don't think about it. You don't have Rick Ruppenthal: And that's BigMike: you don't have time to think about that. We've got the next call we gotta get to. Rick Ruppenthal: Well, and that's that kind of I don't know if I shared my little bio, but I I I I just about ready to hit the publish of my book. But it it came from a similar incident. This is a a personal incident, where I just recently put my dad into a care home. And this was over a year or so ago. And I was having this discussion with a friend of mine and he kinda said, you know, how you feeling about all that? And I said, Well, you know, I kind of have, you know, good days and bad days, you know, kind of a thing. Sometimes I think, well, maybe I could have done something more to keep him at home, and and other days, you know, this is probably the best thing, you know. So my emotions were up and down. BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: Naturally, they were up and down, right? And and my friends, in his own in understanding, he said to me, Well, you shouldn't think that. And then immediately Rather than sort of like going back and and and trying to correct them, it really hit me about the idea of what rights do I have when it comes to thinking? Like I have the right to have any emotion I want about what I feel about my dad, whether it's good or bad, right? If I start to label them as bad feelings, then it's like, I want to do something about the bad feelings. But if they're all just feelings, I don't have to do anything about my bat my these feelings because they're just like weather patterns, they're like clouds, they're like ebbs and flows of the tide. They're just a natural human thing that happens. So I don't have to do anything about anxiety. You know, it's like I have anxiety, I feel anxiety, I feel anxious, great, I feel anxious. But the fact that I already recognize that I've I'm feeling anxious means I'm not anxious anymore. It's like you're you're on your way out, right? You're on your way to that settled mindset. So so for me, that opened up a whole new can of worms around the these rights to to have feelings, the rights to have these thoughts and not to be afraid of them. BigMike: And and I like how you I think this is your project. Maybe maybe you can help me understand this 'cause let's talk about this. You're yeah, the unbroken hero, you know, Rick Ruppenthal: The unbroken hero? Yeah. BigMike: and how you're starting to frame that and help help those in our communities understand you're Rick Ruppenthal: Well and BigMike: you're not broken. Rick Ruppenthal: you're not broken. And and the first paramedic that I that I helped, this is a number of years ago, he came to me and he says, I'm done. And of course Spidey Sense goes up and goes, like, what do you mean you're done? You know, like let's have a talk about this, right? And he says he says, I've you know, most agencies sign a contract with these providers. help mental BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: health services and things like that and they're contracted and so they're they're usually the lowest bidder and they provide only X number of treatments or sessions whatever you want BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: to call it. Well he was done. He had finished his his 10 sessions and the the counselor and therapist said well I'm sorry you're done and then he goes well I'm not I'm not cured I still have these feelings I said, Well, there's nothing we can do about it. You will just have to learn to live with it. That was the advice. And so, you know, I I kind of caught caught a glimpse of some discussions that he was having. And so I just kind of reached out and then he called me and and I said, Like, what's what's the story? He and I said to him and he says, Well, I wanna tell you one thing that has helped me. And I'm and I just want you to take a deep breath and listen to this. Just listen to my words. Just let it wash over you. I said, You're not broken. And then I just sat in silence. And he broke down. He says, Nobody has ever said that to me. In the years that he's been, you know, everybody said, You got there's something wrong, something's broken, something needs fixing. And nobody's ever said that he right. and it was a new thing for him. It was a new concept to to learn that, hmm, I'm not broken. These are just natural things that are happening. And his whole relationship changed with all the different depression, all the different feelings that were that that he was living with. You know, like he thought, I have to fix this, I have to fix this. And then he realizes that you're right. When I focused on the path, when I kept focusing on my depression, of course I was depressed. But when I focus on the health side of me, the times I'm not depressed, that says a lot more about me than the fact that I from time to time have depression. Like I still get depressed. But it's it's you know, I'm unpa and it comes at the worst time or the un unfortunate times I guess. I'm unpacking my camper from the weekend and all of a sudden I get into a funk. And it's BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: like, huh I was just in a good mood. Like what are you doing, right? And it's sort of like but but knowing that there's another experience down the corn round the corner, sort of like, okay, yeah, okay, I'm having a funk right now, and then next thing you know, as I continue on, I'm feeling differently again. BigMike: Yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: And then I feel different again. And the f and so I the way I help people is I focus on the fact that you have all these different feelings that you're never really stuck with anything. So we've we're focused on the the fact that you can have different experiences rather than the experience themselves. BigMike: Yeah, and and I think when we finally meet someone in our life that tells us you're not broken, you know, and that's okay. Or you're depressed and that's okay. Rick Ruppenthal: Mm-hmm. BigMike: It it changes our mindset so much. We feel so embarrassed, I think, and so helpless and hopeless when we're sitting there thinking I'm done. You know, you and I you and I at times it was our back. you know, I can't do what I love to do, I can't do what I'm called to do. I'm done. And what am I gonna do now? Y you know, I still had kids at home when I was going through all that. You know, how am I gonna provide for my family? What what am I going to provide? Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah, yeah. BigMike: And then just one not accepting words of people who don't know your spirit, your heart, and your desire to not be broken. physically and or mentally. But also having someone in your corner telling you you're not broken. You can go in and fight, you know, I I love the Rocky movies, you know, having that Mickey Rick Ruppenthal: yeah. BigMike: that tells you, you know, you got it, one more round. Just hang in there one more round. it changes your whole mindset about who you are. And to just have someone acknowledge say, Man, that's that's a shitty deal, dude. I'm sorry. Rick Ruppenthal: And that's the difference between a mentor and a teacher. BigMike: Tell me that. Tell me about that. Rick Ruppenthal: A teacher wants to give you something. Wants to sort of like well you know being in football, there's there's a side of coaching that is skills oriented. BigMike: Mm-hmm. Rick Ruppenthal: I'm gonna t I'm gonna teach you how to how to run better. I'm gonna teach you how to sort of so there's something of of improvement. I believe a mentor is a pointer. Point to you how magnificent you really are, how well equipped you really are, how much you've already learned along the way that is helpful. He's not there to add more, but to point to the facts that you're already whole, you're already fully equipped, you already can show up. The only thing that holding you from showing up as as the best paramedic or the best police officer is just a lot of overthinking. That insecure thinking of I'm not enough. But a mentor points to you are enough. A teacher says, You're not enough, so I'm gonna teach you some more so you can be. BigMike: Yeah, well, you know, the way you bring it up in coaching, you know, y you'll see a coaching staff and they've got a million million guys on their team. You know, they've got their their their position coaches that are t teaching them and coaching that position. You've got the offensive coordinators, you've got the defensive coordinators, and then you have the head coach and you you you kinda wonder like what what is his his role and his job and when you take it from maybe our first responder backgrounds or military background, you know, you got your general, your your colonels, and then all the way down the staff to the line guys, and you see that like sometimes it's the general's job to just point the roadmap and instill the confidence in the guys to say, You guys have your plan, you I've provided the training, the the I've provided the coaches, the practices, the equipment Now I trust you guys to go get the job done. You know, he may not be involved one-on-one, and and if you ask me, a a good mentor slash leader to a degree is not involved one-on-one with each individual soldier, but they're making sure each individual soldier understands his worth, his value, or you know, each individual player understands his worth and value to the team, to the to the organization, and that You as the head coach, you as the leader of this team, you as the senior guy, you believe that you believe in their abilities. Because they might be stuck Rick Ruppenthal: Well that not only BigMike: in the snow globe. Rick Ruppenthal: Well yeah, and and and not only in their abilities, but i in their potential. BigMike: Yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: you know right? Because if if nobody sees your potential then then they're they're they're focused on something that's that's outside. Like they're it's not a mentorship relationship anymore. It's more of a a a fixing or whatever. I I I'm not even a hundred percent sure. But I but as you were describing what you were describing you know, from a head coach or from any of the coaches' perspective, but we even even think think about when you see somebody, and this is this is w you know, swinging it back to the my original story at the s start, was you see s you see a potential, right, in an individual. You see the unbrokenness, the resilience. The only thing that's holding that person from realizing it themselves is just a lot of extra thinking. And so from a mentor's point of view, we come in, you know, pointing. It's sort of like if if say Stephen Jobs you know he's not here with us anymore but if if he all BigMike: Right. Rick Ruppenthal: of a sudden you know he he lost his identity, would you would you teach him how to how to build a computer or would you remind him what he was or what he is? You know, kind of a thing. And so when BigMike: Yeah, well that's a great point. Rick Ruppenthal: we s actually see the potential in somebody, that's what we do. We we're whether whether it's it's it's you know, showing how to hold a base baseball or throw a football or whatever skill it is, it's the only reason why we're giving them the football is because we see the potential that they can throw a football. You know you know what I'm saying? Kind of BigMike: Yeah, no, I I see it. that is I think that's a great point we can start wrapping this up on is as mentors it's our duty to see the potential in those that haven't seen them yet, haven't seen their own potential yet. Like you said, I think you said the chief's Rick Ruppenthal: Yes. Yeah. BigMike: name was Bruce. He saw in you something you weren't able to see yet and he helped you Rick Ruppenthal: Exactly. BigMike: find that and helped bring that out of you. and man, you just washed my brain with all the different supervisors. And and sometimes they're not even supervisors. They're just coworkers. they're the senior guys that they take you along because they see something in you that you're having a hard time seeing yourself. And then it takes Rick Ruppenthal: That's exactly it. BigMike: it takes I think it takes when you're on the other side of the coin, if you will, and you're like, This is what Bruce saw in me. So I'm gonna help this kid hone it himself. So yeah. Paying it forward, yeah. Rick Ruppenthal: paying it forward. I mean that's that that's if we're to evolve right, if we're to grow as human beings, then this is this is the pathway. Right? It's it's it's you know, it's releasing that potential. You know, I can't you know, I I used to coach softball or hardball Yeah, with for my grandson and you know, this like five years later to to have the kids come up and remember some of the lessons on the field, you know, kind of a thing. You know, like the simple things of you know, it's like, okay, you struck out, okay, you'll be up to the bat. We never quit. You know, the only time that we You know, you can say you're done is when you walk off the field, but as long as you're in the game, you're in the game. And so we strike out, we hit balls, we miss flies, it's all part of it. Right? But not once BigMike: Yeah. Well and Rick Ruppenthal: did we ever forget that that potential is still there. BigMike: Yeah. No, that's a that's a great point. Rick, I really appreciate your time joining us today. man, I've I got a lot of wealth in this. I can't wait to go back and watch it again and take Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. BigMike: notes and and there's so much there. But I love I love the concept of, you know, be looking for people's potential and see how we can we can help them see their potential too. Rick Ruppenthal: Yeah. BigMike: Rick, you're you're a good man. I appreciate all you're doing. I'll put links to the the Unbroken Hero project in in in the in the description. And you know for those of us that are in the first responder world, but really anyone, be sure to check check Rick out and and we look forward to your book coming out and the message there. So is there anything else you wanna you wanna share with us, Rick? Rick Ruppenthal: No, I I wanna say you reached out at the perfect time. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for thanks for finding me and not pre-qualifying me. BigMike: Well I remember I when I saw your bio and and I was like, Yeah, this is a voice I'm gonna enjoy talking to. This is someone I'm gonna enjoy talking to because it it aligns with a lot of you know, there there's a lot more time that we can fit into a podcast, but yeah, th this is a message that needs to be heard again and again. So I I appreciate that. So all Rick Ruppenthal: Thanks, Mike. Thank you. BigMike: right. Thanks for watching everybody, and remember if you're enjoying the video, please share it with your friends, like, click and subscribe. and and and share the podcasts. that's the way we're gonna get the message out and that's the way we're gonna help people. Thanks a lot and