Latest / GAIN Momentum / Caribbean Hotels: Challenges and Opportunities to Future Proof | with Sanovnik Destang & Christus Gill

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Caribbean Hotels: Challenges and Opportunities to Future Proof | with Sanovnik Destang & Christus Gill · GAIN Momentum

• ​GAIN Momentum episode #72: Caribbean Hotels: Challenges and Opportunities to Future Proof | with Sanovnik Destang & Christus Gill === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the GAIN Momentum Podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined by two guests today, both coming from St. Lucia. We have Sanovnik Destang. He's the president of the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Association, and I have Christus Gill, I.T. manager at Zoe Marigo Bay. How are you both doing? Christus Gill: I'm excellent. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. So we're here to talk about technology and we want to put it through the lens of the Caribbean, which is a foremost travel destination, but has a lot of nuance in terms of the delivery of those technology systems and particular things that everyone needs to note when implementing and deploying in this area, as well as some practical advice for the rest of the world. So I'm wondering if we could start with a little bit of your backgrounds and some of the challenges you're currently facing. So, um, uh, hand it over to you to get started. Sanovnik Destang: Thank you Adam. And again, thanks so much for having us, uh, on the show. Uh, so my name is Avni Tang. I am the president, as you mentioned, of the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Association. Uh, but my main job, my day job, the paid job is uh, the executive director of the Bay Gardens Resorts Group in St. Lucia. Uh, we're family owned, uh, property group that was started by my family 30 years ago. We've got four hotels, uh, in St. Lucia in the north, uh, in Rodney Bay Village, and we have a fifth that is under construction and, uh, acquired a property in the south recent of St. Lucia recently that will become a sixth property, uh, in 2027 Christmas. I see the surprise. You don't know this yet, you're finding out now. We'll find out soon. So, uh, we've grown a lot, um, from 1 45 to, uh, pushing close to 300 rooms, um, by the. So this is, but the capacity in route I was introduced and brought was as, um, president of CHDA. Uh, prior to that I also chaired the CH D'S technology Task force. Uh, I don't consider myself a tech person, but I'm a business person who loves to use technology to, to solve, um, business problems. Um, my background is more as an accounting and finance person. Um, that, that was my, um, background. That was my background. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Um, Christus, before we get your background, just my note there is of course, that every piece of technology has to have some sort of tangible ROI. So it still always comes back to the finance accounting and seeing what that impact is on a line item. So very important, the, the integration between finance and any technology, there has to be some sort of performance to gauge it. Christus do you, do you wanna give us some background on, uh, your role, uh, both at the Hyatt property and, uh, with CHTA. Christus Gill: Sure. So I'm the IT manager at Zoe Marigo Bay. And just for some context, it's a luxury marina front property located in one of the most beautiful bays in the Caribbean. It's truly, I'm truly blessed to be working there and my role as the IT manager is to ensure that the team has the technology and the training to support. Their roles and serve the guests in the most secure and efficient manner possible. And of course, that involves all the day-to-day running of overseeing the IT infrastructure, um, the guest facing technology, employee facing technology, and of course ensuring compliance and the cybersecurity training of all of our staff. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Christus Gill: Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: So to focus things through CHTA, let's talk about what this organization is, what it means for Caribbean hotels and how CHT helps its members, both specifically through technology recommendations or, uh, ecosystem support, as well as other aspects. Um, synoptic, do you wanna kick things off? Sanovnik Destang: Sure, no problem. Um, so the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism. Um, it's, it's not just about hotels. We actually have a lot of allied members. About a third of our, uh, 500 or so members are actually from the allied sector. So, um, you've got, destination management companies, you've got technology providers, you've got consultants and all who filled into that, uh, tourism ecosystem. Tourism a very important part of our membership as well. Uh, the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Association is essentially the. Voice of the Caribbean Hotel and tourism, industry, private sector. Um, we, you, you could think of us as, um, the Caribbean Hotel and Tourism, uh, carrier, hotel and Tourism Industries, um, chamber of Commerce, so to speak. Uh, primary job is advocacy and we've been very, very busy. Uh, I actually chair the advocacy committee, um, since taking on presidency in Eptember, uh. Tax and incentive issues in the Dominican Republic, uh, to the proposed port fees on Chinese build ship. That was proposed by, the current administration in the us, which fortunately, the Caribbean has been exempted from, alternative energy, uh, legislation in the Caribbean encouraging more of it. Um, and just about every, and you. We provided the insights to our member HTAs. 'cause we are a group of 32 destinations and every destination has its own hotel and tourism association for the most part. And, uh, we are sort of like the umbrella, HDA, uh, for the different HTAs in the Caribbean. Uh, but in addition to advocacy, there a few areas that we focus on. Put in and made my focus areas under my two. Obviously technology, uh, given my background, uh, but also people, 'cause that is our superpower in the Caribbean. So that, uh, we've been very, very active from a people development standpoint. Everything from training to, uh, tremendous amount of scholarships, um, and. Caribbean ho hospitality employees and linkages, which is very important to me because when you talk about future proof in the industry, having those linkages between, between tourism and agriculture and manufacturing and making sure when people get it, they get a holistic Caribbean experience, um, with things that are made in the Caribbean. and culture as well. That's a very, very important part of it and very near and dear to my heart. Uh, so we've got a number of different committees, including even beyond what we just mentioned. Um, we've also worked closely, and provide support from a marketing standpoint as well. Uh, the primary thing that a lot of people know us for actually is Caribbean Hotel and Tourism Marketplace, which is happening in. Well, I'm traveling to Antigua for it tomorrow. Uh, so that's where we we bring the world to the Caribbean, so tour operators, travel agents, and so on, uh, from all over the world. But in addition to that, we've added a new component this year. I'm very proud of, uh, direct booking summit. Which has been happening. A company called Triptease has been producing this all over the world. And they finally, after years of me attending and begging them, and they finally agreed and worked with us, working with us to bring this event to the Caribbean. And it will be an add-on event to see HG Marketplace in Antigua, uh, pieing very well in terms of registration. Still a bit of space, um, for those who haven't signed up. But what's so exciting is that by far right now, the largest, Group of hoteliers in the Caribbean, focus on a seminar, on direct booking, um, we're probably gonna end up close to a hundred people. And generally when you go to these things like high tech, H-S-M-A-I, if you get 10 to 15 people from the Caribbean at, uh, sales and marketing, digital sales and marketing conferences a lot. Uh, so we're really trying to, to get more of that, very much evangelists. You know, direct is the most profitable source of, of business and the cheapest in terms of an acquisition cost compared to 20, to 30% that you pay to OTAs and, to operators. Um, so we're really making sure it's a holistic event, at CHG Marketplace that allows, um, our members to drive revenue from all different sources, not just one or two. Adam Mogelonsky: one thing I would add there is, uh, direct bookings also give you the best data on your guests as well, Sanovnik Destang: Absolutely And you can maintain that relationship, the authenticity, as um, well of the relationship and your products because there so many things that are unique to Zoëtry Marigot Bay or. to Bay Gardens that the OTAs can't get that information on. There's no space in the system to tell them, um, about the, the things that really make us unique. You can do that, however, on your own website. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And I guess, uh, you know, that's a good handoff to you, Chris, is to talk about your role with CHTA as part of the technology task. How hotels realize the benefits, both in encouraging this channel shift to direct and solving other issues like how best to talk and show how each one of your hotels is unique within an island like St. Lucia and across the 32 destinations. Christus Gill: Definitely. So currently I serve as the co-chairman for the C HTAs Technology Task Force. And the technology landscape is evolving so quickly, it's becoming increasingly difficult to keep up with all of the developments to filter out what hype and what's actually relevant to our industry. So the tech task force was born out of that need to help hospitality businesses understand, um, and adopt emerging technologies like ai. To drive efficiency and competitiveness within the region. Adam Mogelonsky: So, uh, you know, you mentioned something earlier syn about, uh, you have 32 de destinations within the Caribbean and Sanovnik Destang: HD. Adam Mogelonsky: Right, right. Yeah. Of members. And it always comes back to the people. So we're talking about technology, but really technology is just, fundamentally, it's a form of helping manage automation. So that way we can take our people and give guests better experience that are more localized, more authentic, more meaningful. So I'm wondering here just to. Give outside to give us the big why behind all this technology is to talk about from your own experiences about what makes St. Lucia so incredible and what makes it different from other islands. So that way just to give everyone a sense of how localized and how specific we're taking these experiences so that way people keep coming back and keep wanting to have that, that local experience that is so incredible. Sanovnik Destang: So, and, and I leave some for, for, because interesting about Lucia is, you know, when my son was about. Two and a half. We brought him down from Rodney Bay, which is in the north, and it's sort of the entertainment capital, the white sand, beaches and you know, like, sort of like your south beach. And we brought him to, so, um, the other, and, um, tourism hub, um, where we've got the Peters and the Sulfur Springs and he swore that we must have gotten on a plane and went to another country. Because he, this was not St. Lucia in his mind because he knew Rodney Bay and Rosalee and cast, you know, in the north of the St. Lucia, which is a little bit more urbanized, but still tropical. And, you know, you've got that diversity of, of product in St. Lucia. yes, you've got large, um, all-inclusive hotels and brands like Sandals, Marriott, Royalton, and more brands coming in. Uh, but you've got the independence. Yes. You're sleeping in a room that doesn't have a fourth wall, right? Like Jade Mountain, like, Ladera, wind, wind, JAMA. Well, the fourth wall, well, wind JAMA is more villa style, right? I mean, they've got, uh, and, and they've a large property, but with a lot of different dining options. So St. Lucia's very, very diverse. Um, obviously the people make a big difference. I mean, Caribbean people are known for being. Is. St. Lucia has always been an island that attracts a lot of actual Caribbean people coming to St. Lucia and what even other Caribbean people say is that, wow, you guys are so friendly even compared to our people back home. Uh, so we've always gotten a lot of business from the Caribbean itself because of that authenticity, because of how we treat people, um, as visitors and welcome them as part of our family and welcome them into our home. Um, the Caribbean overall is one of the few places you'll go check in and you get a big hug on arrival. Now, some people that might be a little. Strange and off-putting, but, for a lot of people they're like, wow, I, just so genuinely friendly. also culturally, uh, Saint Lucia is unique because we, one of those islands that change hands a lot of the times historically between the French and the British. 14 times to be exact, seven times British, seven times French. So of course you've got, uh. Of French influence. Uh, my last name De is a French name. Um, Chris's last name is English. That's what you're gonna see, a lot of French in the names in the streets, in the architecture. Uh, in, of course, the, uh, French Crayola is widely spoken and, and celebrated in, in our culture, uh, in the cuisine, uh, as well. So you, you get a lot of people feeling that they're in a French island. and, uh, even sometimes in our accent they say, you sound like you're from one of the French islands, um, when we speak English. So it's, um, it's got a lot, um, in terms of diversity and rich cultural heritage. Um, you know, our carnivals, our Creole heritage months and so on, uh, really make for a unique experience in so Lucia that you're not going to find anywhere else. But the whole Caribbean has a lot of these stories and I always encourage people that if you come into the Caribbean, you need to experience at least two or three islands on one trip. And they're not all the same. St. Lucia is not Barbados. Uh, even within St. Lucia you're gonna find different experiences, but St. Lucia is not Barbados. Barbados is different from Antigua. Antigua is very different from Dominica. And you know, obviously air connectivity sometimes can be an issue, but there's easily, such as the. You know, just like you do in Europe, you'd visit several different places to get a different feel. Adam Mogelonsky: Christus, what's your take on St. Lucia and what makes it definitely Saint Lucia is a melting pot of different cultures, the French and the British as, as Sanovnik mentioned, but also the, the Indian and indigenous cultures, um, that, on the island before these influences arrived and all of that is reflected in our music, our food, our language, and the fact that you're surrounded by. The natural beauty of our island. No matter where you are on the island, you're just as stones throw away from a beach and you could have the most stressful week at work. Um, it's just a short drive to a rainforest or a beach and you being in the wellness space, you know how therapeutic that could be for your mental wellbeing. And I think that's part of the reason why our people are so hospitable. We have a lot of opportunities to disconnect and recharge and then come back to the workplace as like a better vision of ourselves. It's so interesting and to tie this back to what we were talking about in, in terms of encouraging direct bookings, to be a devil's advocate here, I wanna raise one word and that is choice. You have so much choice within one island of different independence, branded, and then across different islands or different territories. That may be one of the reasons why people go to an aggregate service like an OTA or a loyalty booking site because it helps them. To focus their, their attention or, or to traditional services like travel agents. And meanwhile we wanna encourage direct bookings through technology. do you find that this is a challenge with the Caribbean specifically in terms of helping people understand why each place is different and why they should, uh, and how to get the message out there while still maintaining those, different channels? Christus Gill: For us, I think a lot of the challenges, like Sanovnik mentioned in the previous question, reflecting this differently, is adequately on the OTA platforms. 'cause we can appreciate, that's usually the go-to for many guests. They will speak to a travel agent or go online to Expedia booking.com to decide where they want to visit and until. We can get the marketing pros or a way of reaching our consumers directly to actually show, showcase our unique differences. it's going to be a challenge for us. Sanovnik Destang: I mean we, we actually, CHE actually owns, um, a domain and a website that is active, uh, caribbean travel.com. Uh, one of the projects that our marketing committee in collaboration, the technology task force is looking to work on, is to find a way to obviously get that site updated. 'cause that really is what it was meant to do. and also to get away to. Monetize it, but more importantly, to allow people to search live rates and availability and encourage direct bookings, not an OTA. Um, you know, we've gotten proposals, um, from OTAs to take over that site and, um, my answer certainly to that is always no. 'cause then you don't have that direct relationship. And obviously your, the, the cost of acquiring that booking is high and just giving business. Just a general challenge with, with third parties, because the Caribbean is not a, a drive to destination, right? You need to fly here, or in some cases take a ferry from some nearby islands. You do tend to find that the to operators are, and probably will for a long time, be very strong, in this market because of their ability to do dynamic packaging. Uh, I know that there are solutions out there like Reserve Hotel. Allow a hotel to do that. Um, but even they are sort of like a third party just at a lower acquisition cost, um, than a traditional OTA. So it's one of those things that you'd like to think that technology over time will allow us to, to get over, to allow for that dynamic packaging. 'cause that is a big part of the reason that people from, especially Canada and and, and Europe, tend to use it to operators. One wonders how long, how much for how much longer, um, is the Gen Z traveler from Europe and the UK going to continue to want to do that? Tough to say. Um, you know, it, I, I think that we have certain advantages over the top rate is because of the ability that we have to rarely describe, um, our experiences and what makes our. I don't wanna say they can't, they can't if they really wanted to. But I mean, they're dealing with so many different properties, it would be near impossible, for them to really allow to, to get the information on each and every single hotel and each and every single destination. So I think that D os have a big role to play in that, in each island. and some of them have started to understand that direct booking aspect. Uh, there are few such as. Direct booking referral aggregator, so to speak, where it just stripes your website, pulls your rate and sends it to you. Not a whole lot that we've done with it, but clearly the technology is there and is only going to get better. Um, but caribbean travel.com is something that we really want to utilize to, get to that point, um, where we're fully describing the Caribbean experience and allowing people to book Caribbean travel directly with live rates and availability. Adam Mogelonsky: So, so I mean, really what we're talking about here from a financial perspective is this whole idea of flow through. Where we're trying to get, uh, we're trying to get rid of a lot of the commissions that maybe damage the bottom line and can really allow us to both free up our teams from a data perspective, uh, and know how to automate and customize guest days, but also give us a little bit more margin or bandwidth to do incredible, to continue to do incredible things for our guests. yeah. Sanovnik Destang: tourism Dollar in the Caribbean. Um, that's one. Adam Mogelonsky: So, so on that front, what other challenges do you see? Or what other technologies do you see that can help with getting more flow through, whether it's from encouraging more direct bookings or some form of channel shift, or something else that may affect a different line item or a different part of operations. Christus, do you wanna start by talking about what you're seeing and what you're looking at, uh, that you can talk about publicly for, uh, Zoe Tree and, and Hyatt? Christus Gill: Direct bookings for our property. Adam Mogelonsky: Or, or any or anything else? Anything else? Operational, uh, to generate more flow through more, more efficiencies. Christus Gill: um, well, right now a lot of these projects cannot be disclosed, but I can speak generally. A lot of technologies, emerging technologies that were being reviewed. Ever since chat, GPT came on the scene and AI came on the scene, they kind of took a back burner. Um, a lot of properties are now looking at how they can use AI effectively to kind of streamline their operations, whether it be through dynamic scheduling, um, predictive maintenance. Um, to try to get the most outta their staff already. Staff shortages are becoming an issue, not just in the Caribbean, but globally, and we're trying to see how we can actually use technology to get the most out of our staff. So, it is a challenge and I can see that between. 2025 and 2026. One of the key challenges is the high bandwidth costs in the Caribbean because a lot of these solutions that we are looking at, they're either SaaS model or they're cloud-based. And with that, you find because of the increased bandwidth cost, it is somewhat restrictive for a lot of smaller properties. Sanovnik Destang: Very right about the, bandwidth cost that's an issue that we've, spoken about had discussions, flow is one of the main bandwidth providers in of the Caribbean uh, certainly the English speaking Caribbean and one of our partners at CHDA, uh, there's not a lot of competition in, in most islands. It's a monopoly or duopoly, uh, at best when it comes to bandwidth, options. And, you know, even looking at things like casting, so. Um, you know, I, I've always, uh, told my IT team that I think we're about two years away from removing cable vision from our rooms because who's watching that anyway? And just allowing them to cast or have some sort of, digital, um, solution instead. But that requires bandwidth. And we did put a, a casting solution, um, that we. I mean, working so far, so good. But we had to make some adjustments to our bandwidth, which came at a, an additional cost to make it, work well, uh, enough. Because we much as you, as much as you invest it, you always seem to need more. And, uh, the needs are growing. Like our, when we first started putting wifi in our hotels, I don't know, 15 years ago or 20 years ago, whatever it was, you could count on maybe one device per person. Per room. No way. I mean, two people are coming with like five and six devices between them and their needs are, have just grown exponentially. And you can only imagine are they're able to grow even more. Um, because everything is is connected to the internet. their watch, their phone, their tablet, their laptop. You're talking four devices almost per person in many Christus Gill: and the expectation is a lot higher as well. Sanovnik Destang: want wifi in. Christus Gill: Yeah. Sanovnik Destang: on the beach everywhere. So it needs to work and it needs to be fast. every single part of the property. Christus Gill: When I just came into hospitality, wifi was mainly for the business traveler. They just wanted to, you know, connect to their emails, respond to urgent matters, but now it's streaming and movies and Netflix. A lot of high bandwidth, um, usage Sanovnik Destang: And televisions. So the, the cost of it is a problem and one of the advocacy issues that we continue to work on as best as we can, to make sure that our members can become competitive, you know, because I think that technology is one of those things that will allow the Caribbean to futureproof itself and to, it's, it's not in my mind a tourism job killer. It's. Christus Gill: Yeah. Sanovnik Destang: To yet again, see what the wifi password is or answer basic questions that AI chat bot could, could easily answer Christus Gill: And just to give you some context, Adam, we're talking about three to four times, sometimes five times the cost of what a I solution would. Sanovnik Destang: easily. easily. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And I was, I was gonna add to that. I was, uh, just to give people context, you know, you're talking about installing more wifi, repeaters, everything, and people want wifi now on the beach. How do you do that while also check those repeaters for end of life as well as, uh, weather events, let's say, that may cause them to go offline. And that can be a full-time job just auditing your wifi, uh, network. How, how do you, how do you deal with that in terms of those demands and the increased Christus Gill: Definitely, especially being a marina front property, any, a lot of our properties are beachfront. Um, the salt in the air, it really speeds up the degradation of these devices. So you find probably every five or six years you have to be replacing and also constantly monitoring these devices for uptime. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. I mean, and that's just one concern. And then you talk about in, in room and trying to bring out cabling. Uh, have you ever dealt with anything where you have to assess what it, what it's like to rewire an actual room and what the costs are to do that? Christus Gill: Oh, yeah. Fortunately I have had, a pretty robust infrastructure in terms of the, um, cabling for my property. Um, but I can only imagine if a property that's been around for probably 15 years, probably still has Cat three cabling and they have to remove all of that and run fiber or CAT six. Sanovnik Destang: we've we've had to been through that because literally every property we own is in that category. Um, now one of the, the newest property we're building, SAF Sands Villas is sort of adjacent to the Big Gardens Beach Resort, which is a 18-year-old property. But the part that we're building on is, land that, that didn't necessarily have all the infrastructure and we had to make certain decisions. And one of the decisions was we're not putting the traditional cable TV in in those rooms. It just doesn't make sense. We're going with a digital solution. So if we change our mind, we account and we just decided that we need to go away from that and go towards something that will allow for digital solutions. So not all. Experiment because experi it means that certain channels may not be available, um, just yet. But, um, once people can get the main things that they want and they can do the streaming and live sports and, and so on, we, we figure we'll be more than okay. 'cause in other parts of the world you don't even have that. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, we're, we're into the weeds here on a lot of the actual property technology, but it's so important that everyone considers this because we're talking about costs. That is a huge cost to rewire a room or even just think about how we're going to install more devices at scale across multiple rooms. So, uh, we're talking about CAT six. I'm curious about one other point related to this, which is, what we talked about, um, tangentially. This which is room, uh, guest room. Um. Guest room management systems, or also I guess you could say EMS, uh, or BMS Building Management Systems and a lot of the new devices that you can install to potentially save on energy. Are you either of you looking at those and what standards can be applied at scale, and effectively a cost for Caribbean hotels? Christus Gill: Uh, we saw a few of them at heightened. Like that were pretty interesting. I think Bodi was, was one of them. You also have a lot of smart thermostats, but the issue we face in that Caribbean is we don't generally use, um, centralized AC for a lot of our properties. They use split units, and a lot of these thermostats are designed for central AC units. We did find a few at, at high Tech that use, um, infrared line of site, which requires you to have one device in each room, basically pointing at the ac. It allows you to monitor whether that device is on or off. And that allows you to do some very interesting things, um, where it can be paired with an occupancy sensor so that if the room is vacant, it automatically turns off the AC when the guest walks in, or if it gets to a certain temperature, it can automatically come back on. Um, and that saves you, a lot of electricity. 'cause you can imagine with our hot climate in the Caribbean. air conditioning costs. Energy costs are one of the biggest items on the, um, financial controllers expense items. Sanovnik Destang: Air. Are about 60 to 65% of our energy bill here. And of course our rates are very high, um, very high operating costs, but particularly for things like electricity, you're talking about 40 cents US per kilowatt hour, where is probably fractions of that in the US and, and other developed countries. and you know, what you said is so true, Krista like, and something about vendors. Need to be aware of. 'cause the Caribbean's the most tourism dependent, but, um, region of the world. But from a technological standpoint, probably the one that has the fullest to go, um, the food is behind. But when you're coming to the Caribbean to implement some of those solutions, you have to be aware of those nuances that very few hotels. We'll have, a centralized system and we are looking at rfs, which is at least still a bit like a split unit, but somewhat centralized, um, in instead of the mini splits, but the majority of hotels, it you're looking at split units and you need something that controls it. We've used different solutions in the past. Uh, all have been rather problematic and I think that there's an opportunity there. For someone to come up with something that's robust. Um, and that really works, um, well in, in reducing energy costs, in environments where you're using. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's very, very interesting to talk about this and you know, there is such a push now for sustainability. Uh, to make this happen, but ultimately it's a huge cost benefit as well if, if it can be implemented and the solution has to be localized to work, to work on the PropTech scale, the actual devices, but also on the, uh, building management side to tie into a system where you can record that and actually have access controls for it. I wanted to tie, and this maybe Christus is a little bit outside your purview right now, but looking at independent hotels in the Caribbean and um, I'm wondering if you could both offer some, some color commentary on some of the challenges that maybe independence may face or are more sensitive to relative to branded hotels in the Caribbean. And then, uh, perhaps some technology solutions that you're seeing emerging that can really help. Independent hotels realize a lot of the benefits that big brands have traditionally had as an advantage that are now coming to and are able to be realized by independence. Christus Gill: I'm sure, um, having worked with both independent properties as well as now working with a, a global chain, before working with Hyatt, I didn't realize the huge difference. It. When it comes to technology adoption and implementation, um, if a hotel management company needs an implementation to meet their brand, standards, owners are usually okay with it. there's that level of trust. You've been doing this for a while, you know what you're doing. Go ahead. but when it comes to independent properties, one, they tend to have fewer resources compared to global chains, and there's this level of skepticism that's met when it comes to IT projects. There's still this mindset of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That kind of thing. Right? And usually it's up to the in-house IT team to highlight the importance of these upgrades. And most times they don't usually have communication directly to the GM or directly to the owner because they report to a financial controller whose main interest is keeping their expense to a minimum a lot of the time. So I. they kinda have to convince the financial controller to convince the GM that this project is actually relevant. But I, I see that changing. I believe hospitality finance professionals, they're becoming more aware of the long term cost of not investing in technology, in terms of not being as competitive, and also with the rise of affordable SaaS. tools And cloud-based platforms, the upfront investment is now significantly lower because the owners no longer have to invest in expensive servers, shipping it to Saint Lucia, um, paying customs and duties on it. So now small independent operators can implement enterprise level software without that heavy upfront cost that usually, um, were out of their, their scope. Adam Mogelonsky: And as well to add to that, a lot of the SA systems that are cloud based are. Emerging as all in one tools that can allow you to centralize a lot of the functions you may do from a front office perspective or ERP into one system. And then from there, you're actually dealing with less systems overall. So it can reduce your overall tech, uh, budget or expense that way. Sanovnik Destang: You know, if I may add, uh, obviously I, I've never worked with a brand, um, although I would consider big Gardens a brand, but we're an independent, uh, brand. We're not attached to Hyatt or Hilton or any of the large ones. there this, the advantage and disadvantages, you're very, very ous about the, if you broke, don't fix it. Approach that, uh, a lot of independent have. The lack of resources is, is very real. Um, I think almost all of the properties independents have an IT guy, right? Whether is outsource or in-house. But that usually, as you know, is not enough. You, you basically need a team. And, um, I do think that having the it, um, person report to finance, unless that finance person is, is very well-rounded. Uh, sometimes it's a. My IT persons have always reported to me directly. Um, because the, the of my understanding that I've gained over the years, uh, I've been the business of the strategic importance of it to the business health overall. Um, so if I, I could change in the future, but if I were ever to put, um, it under another department, it would've to be a very business savvy finance person. but there are some advantages that the independents have because. Sometimes as a brand, and, and maybe you've seen this, Chris, you, you've seen a solution and you know this is going to work. Um, but it's not in the brand standards and you can't, you have to source several hoops to jump through. And again, you, you are part of a large chain, but your, your property is a boutique, is a boutique property, right? It's a boutique hotel. So there's some things that might be more appropriate. Um, now of course Hyatt having to hide all inclusive and. Boutique property, so maybe they'd understand. But in our case, if we see something that works and the case is made, there's no head office that I'm, you, I'm in the head office right now. Right. Like, I basically can make that decision. And what you're also seeing is, is, um. You're seeing more, um, persons having a second generation in the business. So maybe the first generation, like my parents would not have understood the importance of that and might have said the same thing. But now I'm in there, I'm a bit more, um, tech savvy and we we're seeing more and more of that because at High Tech, um, of course we have a great partnership with HFTP that allows, uh, c HTM members to, um, get free access to the trade show floor. And we've had it for the last three years. We've signed it for another three years. You know, the contingent from the Caribbean last year, uh, was mostly independence. A lot of them from St. Lucia and including a few who are also second generation hoteliers, uh, who, who are able to make that case to the previous generation and the board of directors and the owners and so on, based on that exposure that they're getting to that high tech and at other trade shows. So I do think that it is, um, changing. Because you're getting a generation of millennials and Gen Zs getting into the business who are a lot more tech savvy and a lot more tech aware, uh, and a lot more aware of the importance of it to the, sustainable performance. So I think that what you're going to find is that the, the, the technological advantage, that independence that, um, brands may have over independence in the Caribbean is gonna start shrinking. And again, we, independents are able to move a lot faster. When it comes to technology adoption, uh, I know that one large chain in the Caribbean that up until a few months ago, they weren't able to use chat GPT at work. Right? They were still, while we're waiting to see brand standards, all of that, I. The independence. We've all been using it for a very, very long time. And, and not just personally, but for work as so there are some advantages that Independent have, especially, um, now that we've got this heavy focus technology adoption. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, the, to revert back to something you said to syn about if it ain't broke. That sort of attitude. Right. And, um, I wanna frame this to both you, but we'll start with Christus. Is it still, is this, it maybe is a generational shift, maybe it's personal, but a large part of pushing, pushing this technology forward is psychological. So how would you frame it? To someone where you see a solution that you know would work, how would you frame it to somebody you have to convince to say that this is gonna work and that we need to prioritize its development and make an investment where the cost savings in the long run will really pay out huge. Like, uh, as an example, not just chat GPT in terms of improving service in some way, but some new physical hardware that could. Better save on air conditioning costs. How would you push that through to get, to get through that attitude? Christus Gill: Um, the mindset shift is a, a big thing and instead of starting with the person that I need to convince, I usually want to get feedback from the staff. 'cause essentially they will make this solution successful or not. It depends on whether they buy into this idea or not. So, coming from high tech, I have this array of. Fancy solutions that caught my interest and I think can benefit the team. I will sit with the different departments, listen to what the staff have to say, get their feedback on it, um, see whether it's something that they feel we will benefit them. And usually once the staff are on board, and the heads of departments are on board, it's now a lot easier to, um. Meet with director of Finance and discuss these projects with not just you pushing it, but the entire department that's affected pushing for it as well compared to going to a director of finance saying, this is a good idea. You implement something. But the staff, let's say they're afraid that this thing is gonna take their job in. The next year or so, so you get this resistance and when it comes time to show whether this project had a return on investment, it flopped because the team did not have that buy-in, if you get what I'm saying. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, it, it's all about the end user, right? If something doesn't work, they're not gonna use it. Then you have, as I call it, I call it a zombie system, or something's just gonna sit there and collect dust, and then it's just an extra cost at the end of the day, either in time or in fiscal money. Uh, synoptic do you have, do you have any solutions here or ideas? Sanovnik Destang: No, I think, um, I like Chris's approach and that's. Important, getting the users, um, who are impacted by it, to, to be your advocate, so that you can make the, the argument I've seen our IT team use that, um, even on me. Um, if I'm like, well, yeah, I, I understand technology, but I don't see the benefit of this. But then when you've got the users all saying, no, no, no, we need this because of. X, Y, Z, and, and when it's done that way, it's almost better than a a, top down approach. Um, not almost is better than a top, top down approach where you, at your level come up with a solution, say, and tell people you need to use this or else, um, because then they're not going to use it if they're not, um, invested and they don't buy into it. lot of training also is very important. You, you can't just rely on the vendors' training. Um. Especially very transformative solutions. You need a, a, an internal champion. Now, it doesn't always have to be, the IT manager, right? it might be the fc, it might be, um, someone in, in, in sales and marketing. But you need to have a product champion, so to speak, who, can be a, a resource and, and a source of information training for new users as they come on board. Adam Mogelonsky: Cool. So to close things out here for the, the two of you is this whole idea of future proofing hotels. I'm wondering if you both could describe just some closing advice, words of wisdom. Where's the industry growing? How can you future proof your hotel in the Caribbean, in other destinations? And what would you advise vendors to be conscious of to help Caribbean hotels future proof, uh, their properties? Um, Vic, do you wanna kick things off? Sanovnik Destang: When I think of future proofing you, you think of technology, but I, funny enough, I also think of our culture in the Caribbean because think that that our people. Technology where it, it makes sense. Um, but you know, right now with, with ai, it seems that almost anything can be copied or replicated. But, you know, good luck replicating the full Caribbean experience in Asia. Right. For example. it's v in fact, I actually ask AI hypothetically if it could be done and. chatGPT basically told me no. And, you know, cultural appropriation, all these things. So really leading into the things that make you unique, um, as a property and as a destination is a big part of a future proofing strategy. Uh, because you've got a generation now that really is looking for, uh, Instagram will experiences, bucket list experiences, things that they can't get elsewhere and that technology cannot necessarily provide. They can't just do a, a virtual. Trip to Saint Lucia and experience St. Lucia Carnival, for example. You need to be there to feel it and, and see it and, and, and so on. Um, so that to me is a, should be a big part of future proofing in, in the Caribbean and, and really staying true to yourself and your culture and what makes you unique. also for vendors, you know, advices to understand that this is. a destination as in the Caribbean that needs your products, it needs your services because we're very, um, you tourism dependent, most tourism dependent section of the world. And with the most furthest go it comes to technology. But to understand that it's, it's different. Um, there are certain things about. Solution that may need tweaking. Um, payment processing, for example, is a big issue in, in the Caribbean. Uh, it's not that it doesn't exist, but there's a lot of limitations, um, for various reasons. So e epping is one of those things that I'm seeing a lot of solutions for Hightech. None of them will work in the Caribbean unless you, that that hotel happens to be a brand like ours that probably has its bank accounts in the us. Um, so that is one of those things, and finding solutions that would open up so many opportunities because we want to use these things as well. Um, and also just being aware of, the hesitancy that, that people may have and don't come with solutions that you know are gonna cost you $20,000 off the bat for a 30 hotel. It's not gonna right. Um, the SA is a more palatable, uh, in many cases. In many cases, you. Uh, look at, uh, differential pricing, um, for the Caribbean. Uh, that of course it has to make economic sense for you as a vendor as well, but look at differential pricing that, um, still allows you to get in there, uh, because the technology vendors that, that get in and get into that circle. Especially say through CHDA, they get a lot of referral business and when people are, are, are happy with their product, they're extremely loyal and will talk and will refer you to other business, uh, in a part of the world that you probably aren't doing much business right now. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. That's great advice. Christus. Christus Gill: Yeah, that is a, a really beautiful answer, Sanovnik Um, investing in our people cannot be overstated, especially with the level of automation that we're seeing right now. We've been to high tech and see solutions like poly ai and you pick up the phone and have a conversation with it sound just like a, a human being, right? And these things are going to fuel a lot of fear as they become more popular. And it's our job to reassure our staff that this is not what Caribbean hospitality is to us as much as we're looking at technology solutions to help make the, operation more efficient. It's not about replacing the team. It's about freeing up their time so that they can, um, cultivate these genuine experiences with our guests. Because you have, you have guests coming to St. Lucia and asking for staff by name 'cause they were there last year or they were there two years ago. That's how deep these, these relationships run. And, um, with technology, I don't think that's something we want to overshadow. In fact, we should be using the technology to enhance it. So a more. From an IT standpoint, I'll give some practical feedback that I think would be necessary. Not necessarily to put, um, future proof. It's not a word that I like using 'cause it kind of gives the executive team the idea that if we spend this money, we're good for the next 10 years. Right? But that's, that's not the case. We know how quickly technology is evolving and we can be future prepared. Um, but we will at some point have to reinvest in our tech stack. So I think at this point we should be moving if we haven't already to cloud-based PMS and POS systems, especially in the Caribbean being in a hurricane prone, um, environment. Digitize the handling of our guest requests, whether that be, whether they put these requests for an a mobile app or an in-room tablet. Um, that allows us to identify patterns, reoccurring issues, dips in timeliness of service, and really fine tune our operation because you can appreciate that. the more guests come to our property and as our competition ups their game, the expectations also increase. So we can't keep doing the same thing that we've been doing. We have to be getting 1%, 10% better, uh, every single time. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. So to close things out, future proofing is really, it's about, it's about your people. It's about the process and having that mindset and keeping the people at the forefront. And then understanding that technology is simply, it's process management and, and automating where you can, and always having that eye have curiosity to, to be forward thinking and changing. Yeah. Well, Sanovnik, Christus, thank you so much for your time. It's been a fantastic conversation. Really, really useful to understand the nuances of the Caribbean, culture and technology and the challenges that are facing. Thank you both.