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GORGEOUS PASTOR'S WIFE MICA SHOCK 'SUICIDE?' FAMILY WANTS PROOF · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: breaking news tonight. Gorgeous pastor's wife, Micah Miller spoke through
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  Speaker 1: tears about abuse on Facebook, supporting victims of domestic violence.
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  Speaker 1: Mica meets her future husband age just 15 and when
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  Speaker 1: they marry, she takes on his five
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  Speaker 1: the Children as her own. But cracks emerge in the marriage.
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  Speaker 1: The marriage to a highly popular and charismatic South Carolina
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  Speaker 1: pastor John Paul Miller. Then the shot discovery of Micah's
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  Speaker 1: body in a remote state park, Mica shot dead
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  Speaker 1: and in the last hours, a war of words explodes
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  Speaker 1: as Micah's loved ones insist she did not commit suicide.
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  Speaker 1: And also in the last hours, Pastor John Paul Miller
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  Speaker 1: booted from that Myrtle Beach church. What do they know that?
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  Speaker 1: We don't know tonight, Mica's devastating 911 call. MP S.
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  Speaker 1: Did the preacher have a girlfriend?
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  Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. Thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. I've had a lot of
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  Speaker 1: women
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  Speaker 1: that have reached out to me about situations of abuse
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  Speaker 1: and
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  Speaker 1: I just want to tell you what a lot of
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  Speaker 1: people have told me uh lately and reminded me because
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  Speaker 1: I think I forgot I knew. But I for I
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  Speaker 1: pushed it in the back of my head. Um
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  Speaker 1: just because of my situation. Um but you are the
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  Speaker 1: bride of Christ. God hates divorce. But why, according to
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  Speaker 1: everybody I've asked and the scriptures that I've found, it's
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  Speaker 1: because it hurts people
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  Speaker 1: but does abuse hurt people.
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  Speaker 1: How do you think God feels about that? Having worked
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  Speaker 1: uh for nine years on the hotline at the battered
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  Speaker 1: women's center prosecuting during the day hearing her speaking like
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  Speaker 1: that just it twists my heart. She referred to her
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  Speaker 1: quote situation. What situation was that?
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  Speaker 1: And why did this beautiful young wife end up dead,
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  Speaker 1: shot dead in a remote state park. Joining me in
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  Speaker 1: all star panel. But I I just want to establish
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  Speaker 1: how did these two ever get together? Listen, John Paul
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  Speaker 1: Miller and Micah Miller are married in 2017 and at
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  Speaker 1: the age of just 23 Micah Miller becomes stepmom to
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  Speaker 1: John Paul Miller's five Children, JP Miller is considerably older
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  Speaker 1: than his beautiful young wife, but they move forward like
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  Speaker 1: a match made in heaven. At first,
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  Speaker 1: like many marriages outside the home, everybody seems happy but
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  Speaker 1: inside the home, not so much Micah Miller decides she
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  Speaker 1: has had enough of pastor John Paul Miller and files
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  Speaker 1: for divorce. Joining me an all star panel to make
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  Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. But first, I
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  Speaker 1: want to go to former South Carolina news anchor in
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  Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach, investigative reporter
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  Speaker 1: Michael Melly. Thank you for being with us. Number one, happy,
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  Speaker 1: a happy marriage. What the three of them, Mica, the
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  Speaker 1: pre the preacher and his girlfriend. Ok. That said, what
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  Speaker 1: is her situation that she refers to on that very
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  Speaker 1: haunting Facebook post, you know,
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  Speaker 1: in this community too? We, we're just inundated with feelings
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  Speaker 1: and suggestions, you know, ideas and passion on both sides
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  Speaker 1: of this terrible, terrible case. Um You know, that family dynamic,
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  Speaker 1: it really came to light lately, Mike o'malley. Listen, I
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  Speaker 1: got one hour with you. No time for euphemisms,
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  Speaker 1: no time to whitewash anything. What do you mean? The
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  Speaker 1: family dynamic just came to light. What family dynamic? The girlfriend,
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  Speaker 1: the alleged abuse. What? Well, it's a combination. Uh Let's
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  Speaker 1: start with the first Micah uh and JP as she
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  Speaker 1: referred to him, to her siblings, her siblings put together
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  Speaker 1: some affidavits in court in seeking uh
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  Speaker 1: uh ownership uh for a state. Uh in those affidavits,
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  Speaker 1: we've just kind of learned a little more detail um
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  Speaker 1: in that her siblings say look, she told us in
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  Speaker 1: no uncertain terms about the abuse she told us she
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  Speaker 1: feared for her life. Um It got so graphic and
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  Speaker 1: detailed as to her saying to the effect if someone
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  Speaker 1: finds me with a bullet in my head, it was JP,
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  Speaker 1: John Paul. These are statements that came out, Michael Maley.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on just one moment. That is a lot of information.
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  Speaker 1: I've found a lot of it in investigating the case.
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  Speaker 1: But I want you to just, if you don't mind,
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  Speaker 1: would you repeat what you just said that you learned
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  Speaker 1: from reading affidavits by family? Um Just kind of looking
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  Speaker 1: through the affidavits uh submitted by Micah's family, her siblings
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  Speaker 1: to say the least. Um There's a mention um of abuse.
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  Speaker 1: Um There's a mention of her fear for her safety
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  Speaker 1: and it gets even so graphic and so detailed um
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  Speaker 1: as a mention of quote to an extent here. If
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  Speaker 1: I end up dead with a bullet in my head,
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  Speaker 1: it was JP who did it? JP, John Paul, her
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  Speaker 1: estranged husband. Um This is all coming out. Um In
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  Speaker 1: addition to that, we're getting some more information from some
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  Speaker 1: other siblings.
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  Speaker 1: Talk about a March 11th incident where there was uh
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  Speaker 1: police reports filed for vandalism to her car, her tire shredded.
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  Speaker 1: You're giving me so much information and I've got questions
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  Speaker 1: on every single thing that you just said with me.
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  Speaker 1: You're hearing a very well known investigative reporter joining us
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  Speaker 1: out of South Carolina, Michael Maley
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  Speaker 1: with me, an all star panel, but I'm gonna introduce
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  Speaker 1: them as we go along to Brian Foley, joining me,
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  Speaker 1: board certified criminal defense attorney and former chief prosecutor Harris County, Texas.
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  Speaker 1: Never a lack of business there. And author of what
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  Speaker 1: prosecutors don't tell you, Brian Foley, how many cases did
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  Speaker 1: you prosecute and, or defend
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  Speaker 1: where the dead woman says if I turn up dead.
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  Speaker 1: He did it because I have had many and sure
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  Speaker 1: enough by the time I got a hold of them,
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  Speaker 1: they were homicide cases, Brian Foley and domestic
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  Speaker 1: violence situations, we often have these warning uh signs, we
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  Speaker 1: have uh victims that will reach out to friends or
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  Speaker 1: family members and say, hey, if something happens to me,
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  Speaker 1: it it wasn't me, it was, I'm not going to
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  Speaker 1: commit suicide. Um And so apparently that did happen in
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  Speaker 1: this case, but we've got some facts, you know, from
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  Speaker 1: the police investigation that look like
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  Speaker 1: uh it is a suicide. So if I'm J P's lawyer,
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  Speaker 1: um I'd be saying, singing from the rooftops what the
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  Speaker 1: police have reported. Well, yeah, but right now I'm curious
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  Speaker 1: about what else the family has to say in sworn
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  Speaker 1: statements and a legal word.
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  Speaker 1: The so called preacher has not been officially charged. He
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  Speaker 1: has not been named a po I person of interest
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  Speaker 1: or a suspect. But I want to move forward with
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  Speaker 1: what Michael Maley, investigative reporter joining us out of South
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  Speaker 1: Carolina is saying he's talking about
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  Speaker 1: problems Mica had just before her death. Listen to our
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: friends at crime online. Four months after filing for divorce,
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  Speaker 1: Micah Miller pulls back the divorce papers only to file
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  Speaker 1: new divorce papers weeks later after filing for divorce a
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  Speaker 1: second time, Micah Miller feels like she's being stalked. Her
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  Speaker 1: tires are slashed twice in a week's time. Police discover
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  Speaker 1: a tire deflator
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  Speaker 1: has been used on the tires, taking her car to
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  Speaker 1: the dealer for service. A mechanic finds a tracking device
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  Speaker 1: placed in Micah Miller's car, flat tires tracking device. Micah
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  Speaker 1: Miller tells police she's afraid for her life. She knows
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  Speaker 1: who the suspect is but police tell her there's nothing
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  Speaker 1: they can do. Police file reports but no charges are filed. Ok.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on a tracking device on her car. Her tires
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  Speaker 1: slashed. She calls police to report it. They show up
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  Speaker 1: at a gas station where she is to get the
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  Speaker 1: tracking device off her car. At that time, the alleged
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  Speaker 1: stalker drives by very slowly in his Honda. She says
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  Speaker 1: if you find me dead, he did it. The preacher
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  Speaker 1: that's not a suspect. Her husband,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, uh to Scott Johnson joining me
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  Speaker 1: forensic psychologist, author of when I love you turns violent
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  Speaker 1: Scott Johnson. I mean, other than this initial ruling that
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  Speaker 1: Mike
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  Speaker 1: committed suicide with a bullet to her head, which of course,
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  Speaker 1: as we all know, is highly unlikely statistically that a
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  Speaker 1: female of her age would shoot themselves in the face
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  Speaker 1: that said Scott Johnson
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  Speaker 1: textbook, stalking textbook, very textbook. And you know, she's describing
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  Speaker 1: incidents which sound crazy and yet there's evidence to back
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  Speaker 1: uh back it up. And so when people get controlling
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  Speaker 1: and possessive and particular with narcissism and this person's position
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  Speaker 1: with the, with the church and in the community, um
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  Speaker 1: she's a piece of property that just will not be
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  Speaker 1: let go. You know Michael Malley, this is gonna be
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  Speaker 1: hard for you because you have so much information to
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  Speaker 1: give us. But Michael, yes. No. Did the, the preacher,
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  Speaker 1: the pastor? Did he have a girlfriend? I want to
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  Speaker 1: establish that. Yeah, Nancy. That's right. So there's several reports
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  Speaker 1: out there that say not only did he have a
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  Speaker 1: girlfriend but that girlfriend allegedly may have been his alibi.
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  Speaker 1: Holy my head's blowing off right now. Let me just
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  Speaker 1: try to reattach that here at the top of my page.
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  Speaker 1: What is his alibi? Where was he? OK. I did
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  Speaker 1: not see that coming but thank you. I'm gonna split
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  Speaker 1: your answer. I'm gonna bifurcate it and go back to
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  Speaker 1: Scott Johnson. Boy. Do we need to shrink? Hold on.
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  Speaker 1: So all this business you were saying about stalkers are
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  Speaker 1: controlling and possessive and they won't let
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  Speaker 1: the woman go. He double L if he had a girlfriend,
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  Speaker 1: why did he care if she got a divorce? Explain
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  Speaker 1: that to me, right? But you have the misogynistic bullshit.
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  Speaker 1: If you will there that he's God's gift to women,
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  Speaker 1: he can have as many women as he wants. But
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  Speaker 1: once he has them, he possesses them. And so to
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  Speaker 1: indoctrinate the new girlfriend to maybe even stalk and or
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  Speaker 1: um help kill her would not
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  Speaker 1: be out of the realm of what we've heard from
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  Speaker 1: uh controlling domestic batters at all. And this all started
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: by me very calmly asking Michael Maley, investigative reporter, what
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  Speaker 1: Micah's family said in their affidavits man, you threw me
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  Speaker 1: a hardball. So the girlfriend you believe is going to
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  Speaker 1: be the pastor's
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  Speaker 1: alibi at the time, Mia was shot in the head.
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  Speaker 1: The official police report says that uh that JP was
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  Speaker 1: with a woman. Um So there's speculation of some sorts
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  Speaker 1: but um a lot of allegations suggest this is the
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  Speaker 1: woman who he was with. Uh, he was in Charleston,
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  Speaker 1: not in North Carolina where Mike's body was discovered, not
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  Speaker 1: from where the 911 call was tracked in that uh
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  Speaker 1: Lumber River State Park. So the,
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  Speaker 1: this is the, uh the suggestion is that no, uh
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  Speaker 1: he's with a woman, uh, and police corroborate that uh
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  Speaker 1: he was romantically involved with a woman at this time.
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  Speaker 1: Um So that's, that's where he was. And another note, Nancy, that,
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  Speaker 1: that did come up that may or may not be
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  Speaker 1: interesting is, um, when asked before the press briefing where
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  Speaker 1: they were,
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  Speaker 1: Robinson County Sheriff's detective offered to meet separately JP. Um,
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  Speaker 1: apparently through his attorney, he refused to meet them said
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  Speaker 1: he would take any information delivered to him here in
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  Speaker 1: Ory County. Well, wait, wait, Michael. He, he, the preacher
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  Speaker 1: refused to meet who Robinson County sheriff's deputies through his
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  Speaker 1: attorney through notes that I'm reading. He said, I don't
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  Speaker 1: wish to meet you in Robinson County. I'll be here
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  Speaker 1: in Ore County if you want to deliver information to me.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the gist of what we're getting.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor of forensics
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath my Feet. Host
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: of body bags, the Hit new podcast, Joe Scott. You
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: have handled literally thousands of death investigations, some homicides, some suicides,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: some natural cause,
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  Speaker 1: but we have read a lot of police reports, right?
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  Speaker 1: And when the police, right, in the report, the preacher,
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  Speaker 1: husband was with quote, a woman notice, you know, that's
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: code word, right? For girlfriend notice they didn't say a parishioner,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a congregant, a family friend, a neighbor, a coworker. They went,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: he was with a woman.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: We all know what that means. That is police lingo
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: for girlfriend
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  Speaker 1: affair. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: yeah. And, uh, here's the other thing, you can also
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: insert the word alibi too, uh, perhaps and people that
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  Speaker 2: find themselves in these positions, many time attempt to alibi
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  Speaker 2: themselves by being somewhere else or being with an individual
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  Speaker 2: that perhaps can,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: uh, you know, validate where they were. But if you've
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: got somebody that's engaged in deceptive behavior, which as we know,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: infidelity is at the top of the heap, uh, you know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: who's to say that they wouldn't create some kind of other, uh,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: fantastical story to pass off to the police. It's gonna
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: have to be verified electronically. I think through the investigations,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to have to,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: you know, lay down the breadcrumbs electronically and talk about
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the digital evidence that they have to specifically pinpoint this individual.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: joining us an all star panel, a war of words
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: exploding between Mica's loved ones and the suggestion
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that Mica committed suicide,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: they better have some really strong evidence that this was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: suicide back to you, Michael Melly. And I'm about to
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: bring in Irv Brant, um, very respected former US Marshal
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: service agent, International Investigations Branch and author of Jack Solo
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: on Amazon Michael. Let me understand the alibi of the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: preacher who is not a suspect and has not been
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: named a person of interest. The sheriff
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: office, Facebook post says, quote Miller and a female, he's
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: allegedly romantically involved with, that's one way of putting it
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: romantically involved. Uh, investigators confirm both individuals not in North
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Carolina the night before and day of Mica's death.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Through interviews. JP Miller was at an athletic event in
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Charleston on the day of Micah's death. Let me just
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: knock a few things down very quickly. What time of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the day do we believe Mica was killed? Michael Malley. Uh,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it was the afternoon on, uh, Saturday, April 27th.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Uh, the call came in around 245 in the afternoon,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: around 2:45 p.m. based on the 911 calls. Do you
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: know what athletic event the husband was supposed to be at?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: We don't right now nor did the authorities release any
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: information just that, uh, he was there with the woman,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: he was allegedly involved with using a Robinson County detectives word. Ok.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Apparently in the afternoon, coming back to Ory County, I
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: believe on Sunday,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. So that's kind of the timeline that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the authorities have released and put out that truck is
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: tinted black. How do I know who's in it? And
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: also how do I know he was at an athletic event?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: And was he there the whole time? And how far
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: away is that
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: event from where Mica was killed? Fair questions. All of those.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Uh Charleston, South Carolina about an hour and a half
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  Speaker 1: south of us in Myrtle Beach, uh Lumberton County, uh
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Lumberton rather Robinson County about an hour north. So I'd
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: say about three hours to play it safe 2.5 to
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: 3 hours from where Micah's body was discovered to the
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: athletic event where um you know, the pastor allegedly was guys,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: we're trying to determine the truth of what happened to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this
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  Speaker 1: gorgeous young mom. Uh Back to you, Michael Mellie. What
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: more did you learn from the family's affidavits? Yeah. So,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and this, this really just kind of came out like I,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: like I said, on the onset of our discussion and,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: and this is uh compelling no matter how you look
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: at it. Um So the family, the siblings, Michael siblings,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: she had a few, I believe up to four or five,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: at least two of them filed an affidavit. This is
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: for um, the actual uh efforts to get
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the ownership, I guess of her state. Um, you touched that,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I believe briefly. But March 11th, there were two police
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: reports filed about a, uh, tire that exploded a metal
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: device that they have erupted the tire, a GPS device.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: That's when she allegedly was gonna file that restraining order. That's,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: that was around March 11th. Well, in this affidavit, one
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of the family members says they got an email from
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: like uh
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: uh where she talked about her husband apologizing for the
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: tires and causing damage to her vehicle. Um And then
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: he went on to this email and again, this is
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Mia's sibling saying I got an email from my sister.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: My sister says this,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: um said Mr Miller's email to my sister continued to
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: think that he was angry that Mica confided in her
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: family over him. And he said in his words, the
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: affidavit said that when someone hurts me, I try to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: hurt them back rather than forgive and instead of me
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: forgiving you, I just a cha attack and try to
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  Speaker 1: cause pain. This was in the affidavit.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Um So look, the family has certainly plenty to grieve over,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: but they're bringing up more information about just the tumult
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: of this relationship beforehand. And what would appear again through
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Micah's email him, taking ownership of some of these assaults,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: so to speak. And joining me right now, as I
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Irv Brandt, former US marshal who has traveled
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the world for the US government to locate
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: wanted felons. Irv, thank you for being with us. Listen,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to very carefully review that autopsy report
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and I know that's your belly wick Joe Scott Morgan.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: But Irv Brandt, when you've got a stalker husband,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: uh allegedly putting tracking devices on his wife's car slashing
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: her tires apologizing for it, having an affair and the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: wife says if you find me dead with a bullet
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: in my head, he did it, that autopsy report better
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: be clear and convincing, leaving no room for doubt. But
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: my question to you, uh brand is,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: what about the alibi? You and I have both dealt
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: with a lot of alibis that stunk to high heaven
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: but with those tinted windows and a girlfriend that is
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: uh doug or heels in. What do you do, Nancy? That's,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I have confidence in the investigators
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: uh in this matter
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: that they're not gonna overlook any possibilities. I mean, you
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: have the perfect suspect, you know, everything that you laid out.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: This guy is good for it. This wasn't a suicide.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: So the police have to be absolutely sure that his
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: alibi is rock solid, whether they went and interviewed people
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that were at that sporting event, that there's video of
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: him at that sporting event. If his phone was at
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: that sporting event,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: they, and then like you said, on top of that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the autopsy
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: has to be solid showing it's suicide for them to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: come out and say he's not a suspect or even
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a person of interest given what we know. I just
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: wanna let you know that I'm alive and well, and, um,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: life's been kind of crazy a couple past weeks,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: months, uh, years.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: But, um,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I've kind of had to keep my circle really small
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: for the past couple of weeks
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: just because, um,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going through a lot and it's hard. What does
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: that mean? Scott Johnson, joining me, a forensic psychologist and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: author of when I love you turns violent among other books,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Scott Johnson.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: What does that mean when someone goes on Facebook? Just
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to reassure everyone that they're ok? Well, certainly that she's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: not feeling ok, she's feeling scared and she wants to
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: make sure that people are hearing that undertow that care
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: about her, that recognize that code if you will, that,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: you know, right now, I'm ok, but I've been through
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: a lot and she references that. So she's scared and she's, um,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you know, reaching out to people to kind of
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: listen then and keep track of her if you will
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: to make sure she stays ok. It's hurting me to
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: think that she was turning to posting on Facebook about
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: her fears and the pain that she was going through.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: She even gives it a definitive time period. She says
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: for years, I've been going through this clearly alluding to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: her marriage again, her pastor husband, JP Miller. John Paul Miller,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: um, is not a suspect or a person of interest.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he's probably looking for a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: job right now because John Paul Miller has been booted
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: from that Myrtle Beach church just days after he casually
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: reveals his wife's suicide to a stunned conversation. But you
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: know what? Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Listen,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I got a call late last night. My wife has
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: passed away.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was self induced and it was
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: uh up in North Carolina and somehow it kind of
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: like wedge that in to the rest of the service
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to Brian Foley. Joining me, a veteran trial lawyer and
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: author of what prosecutors don't tell you, Brian, I know
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a good defense attorney like yourself will argue. Well, that
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: means nothing. You know, there's no, how many times have
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I heard it? There's no playbook for grief, but it
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: matters to me.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: And I guarantee you it would matter to any woman
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: on a jury that he's talking about this and that
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and that and this and oh, yeah, my wife's dead.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: She did it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And then he instructed everybody to leave in silence and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: don't ask him any questions. Hey, I mean, that, that's
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: a great argument for, he's a little bit weird or,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: or a jerk if you want to say cheating on
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: her is obviously not a great thing, but
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: uh he's not guilty of murdering her. There's concrete proof
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of that. The police have her on video at 12:12 p.m.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: buying a nine millimeter six. So which is gonna match
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: up to the bullet that they have with her. Um,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: they found bullets in the car, they found, uh, even
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: on her phone, they have her looking up, uh, where
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the nearest National Force is. That's where they found her.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: The reason she called 911, she says in her own
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: voice
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: that she uh is intending on killing herself. So, you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: there's can be a lot of speculation, but the police
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and the law requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. And
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I think you could probably prove beyond a reasonable doubt
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that she did kill herself. Not just that uh you
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: ha you'd have to prove it the other way beyond
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt that he did the killing and uh
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: him not being very articulate in front of a crowd
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: after he, he finds out his wife has committed suicide.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Uh That's not proof. I got a question for you.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Um Does the name Conrad Roy? Ring a bell or
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Michelle Carter? His former girlfriend, Conrad Roy, an extremely sensitive
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: young man commits suicide at the behest, the urging the
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: aiding the abetting of his girlfriend
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Michelle Carter and she got convicted and did a little
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: bit of a hard time. Are you familiar with that case?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: And others like it? We're a little familiar with that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: but it's not really the same here because he's, his
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: license plate reader is three hours away at the same time.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: You know, there's no evidence of a struggle or anything
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: like that. And on the 911 call had he been
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: like in the background, you know, forcing her hand or
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: something like that. We wouldn't expect her reasoning to be
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: for her family to find her or something like that.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: We'd expect her to be crying a little more to be, uh,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: more upset. Maybe even blurt something out like he's here
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Hold on. Did I hear Brian Foley,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the veteran trial lawyer say his license plate reader places
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: his truck
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: elsewhere.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Did I hear you say anything about an alibi other
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: than his girlfriend is he spotted on video? Is his
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: cell phone there at that sporting event?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Do, do I have any other eyewitness placing him three
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: hours away other than the girlfriend? And by the way,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: weren't these two still legally married? They weren't divorced yet,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: were they Brian Foley? Yeah. And you know, if we
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: want to convict him of being a jerk, that's fine,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: but that's not a crime. And this is, yeah, what
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: he's not placed three hours away. His vehicle is, but importantly,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: he's not placed when she's there buying the gun that
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: did the suicide at 12:12 p.m.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, she is on video. She's not with him. He's
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: not captured in the parking lot you can see on
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: her face, we, she's almost smiling at it. She's, this
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: is something that she's obviously had some mental health issues.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: She's going through a lot and this is her taking
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: control back of her, her life. And you can actually
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: in suicides like that. There is this period sometimes beforehand
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: when the victim or of the suicide knows that
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: they're going to do this where they get a little
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: bit happier, They feel like they're in control of things.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You can see that in the smile on her face
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: in that video. Hey, Brian Foley. Guess what
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Michelle Carter wasn't present when Conrad Roy killed himself either.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: She was on the phone saying go ahead, kill yourself.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: She wasn't there either, but she went to jail again.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Let me reiterate. We invited the pastor
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: John Paul Miller on today to answer some tough questions.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: He did not respond. He's just been booted by his
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach church. And I'm wondering, what do they know that?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: We don't know if this is truly a suicide? If
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that church believes that Micah committed suicide, then why did
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: they fire him? Why, why aren't they
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: uh uh enfolding him with compassion and sympathy instead of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: firing him? What do they know? Joining me, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: we're now professor of forensics Jacksonville State University author, podcaster
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and star of the hit series, uh Joe Scott, what
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: would convince you
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in that autopsy report that this is really a suicide
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it is. I'm not saying it's not
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and the husband is presumed innocent until proven guilty. He
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: has not been charged.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: But in my world, Jo Scott, when a woman says,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: if I turn up dead with a bullet in my head,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: he did it and then she turns up dead with
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a bullet in her head. I've got to think about it.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: So what would convince you, what do you know about
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the suicide other than it's highly unlikely for a female,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: her age to shoot herself in the head.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: What are you looking for? Joe Scott?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be looking for the presence of soot deposition
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: and that is when the blast of the weapon makes
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: contact with the skin, the proximity to the end of
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the muzzle. If you guys could come to me on
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: camera just for a second, I'll kind of show you
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about here. Uh Well, this is a
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: dummy weapon that we use at Jackson State when a
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: weapon is placed to the skin like this and it
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: is fired. Ok?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: The deposition into the surface will be blown in and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: you'll be able to appreciate that as far as a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: close contact, gunshot wound or a press contact. We do
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: know this piece of information that was released by the
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: medical examiner uh for Robinson County. Uh The he had
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: stated in his release
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: that contrary to what had been floating around out there
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: that this was not a gunshot wound to the back
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: of the head. We generally associate those with an execution
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: style gunshot wound and those in, in the framework of suicide.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: When you're talking about self inflicted gunshot wounds, a wound,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: the back of the head is what we call an
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: atypical location for a self inflicted gunshot wound. So, what
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: we're looking for is the proximity perhaps on the temple
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: or maybe an intraoral gunshot wound and they haven't released
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: that information yet. That's what I'd be keying in on
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: relative to the autopsy results when they're finally released.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: guys.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: In the last hours, a 911 call has been released
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: that purports to be Mica
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: near suicide,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: her family and loved ones want proof and I don't
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: blame them. And let me remind everyone, the husband slash
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: pastor has not been named as a suspect. We invited
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: him to join us and set straight the record. He
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: did not respond. But who did respond? A very dear
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: friend of Micah's
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Shaylon French is joining us, Shaylon. Thank you for being
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: with us. Thank you for having me on Shaylon. When
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: did you learn that Micah had passed away? I learned
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: two days ago
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: on tiktok, it went viral and I was laying in
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: bed and I found the video and to those who
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: are in her life group in Kansas where she tried
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to come back to, to separate from her husband. Um
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in early 2023.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Um I shared it with them and we all found
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: out right then and there, what was your immediate thought
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: when you learned Mica was dead? My immediate thoughts went
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: straight to him. What do you mean by that? You
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: felt sorry for him? You felt empathy for him when
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you say your immediate thoughts went straight to him. What
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: exactly did you think when you heard Mica is dead?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: I after the stories that she had shared with everyone
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: about her abuse and we all got very watered down.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Um versions of obviously everything that was happening because when
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: you just meet somebody, you're not going to tell them everything.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Um
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: We got all text messages when she was leaving. That
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: didn't make any sense when she was planning on staying
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in Kansas and she was planning on thriving. She was
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: planning on making trips healing and all of a sudden
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: we heard nothing. It was a hey, good news. I've
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: been reconciled. My husband's allowing me to come back home.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: OK. Whoa whoa whoa whoa My husband's allowing me to
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: come back home. He allowed her to come back home.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I've been reconciled. Praise God. OK? The a the abuse
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that she did admit. What did she say to me personally?
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: And she did not give explicit details. She mentioned how
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: her husband would watch or make her watch on Holy Acts.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: And those are the exact words that she gave to
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: me
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: when I tried to ask deeper. I didn't get an answer.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Made her watch Unholy Acts. Ok. That could be a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: number of things with me is Micah's very dear friend,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Sheila French.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised when you learned Mia was dead? So
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to back up a little bit because when
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: we met her, it was in early January 2023 she
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: came to Kansas to live with family and she started
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: coming to our church
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: church when she came to our church, she, her testimony
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: was first off beautiful. She immediately wanted to be a
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: mission trips. She immediately wanted to get involved. She wanted
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to know everybody. She was adventurous. She was ready to
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: just start a new life away from him.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: We had conversations about her taking care of her own
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: mental health. We had conversations about her feeling like there
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: was nothing wrong with her, but she wanted to double check.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: She was so happy to be able to deal with
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: her own mental health. She was so happy to be
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: able to go see a therapist. We were making plans
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: and then in March, March 23rd, 2023 we all got
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: a text message that said praise, praise God. I've been reconciled.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: So in my surprise that she is dead.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, because she was so smart and I hoped she
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: would escape it. But this guy
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: seemed scary. He seemed
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: calculated
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and you could tell she was definitely in fear even
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: being away from him. I don't understand the nature of
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: their relationship when she was 15 years old when she
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: met him. How did she end up mother to his
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: five Children? From another woman? I am not sure. So,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: when she met us in Kansas, she did talk about, um,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: his Children, but the only thing she mentioned was that
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: they were close to her age, um, she treated them
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like they were her own. She was very kind to them.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: She talked about missing them even. But I'm not exactly
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: sure how it even came about that. A youth pastor
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: would go after a young teen. She never explained that.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: But you could definitely tell when she gave us that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: information that she had gone through church abuse. Question. Was
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: he the youth pastor when he met her as a
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: 15 year old girl? I can't confirm that I have
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: heard just like everybody else that he was part of
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the teen ministry. Um I have no information on that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: And joining me is Micah's friend Shay and French. What
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: do you make of the
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: now cod cause of death? Suicide? Do you believe that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I don't want to,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to believe that I want to believe
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: that she didn't and that this is all calculated that
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: anybody could tell someone to walk. There. People are coming
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: out with even so many questions about the videos, footage,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: footages that have been released by the police and seeing
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: inconsistencies there, um like seeing at the gun store and
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: not seeing her tattoo on the right hand. Um They,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: someone had posted that there was a blue truck nearby
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: following her. Although I don't, the timelines wouldn't be consistent
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to where he was at.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: truly think this could have still been foul play. However,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: if she did, she is the one she called 911
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: and that honestly, that phone call was gut ring to
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: all of us. Um
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: When she called 911, I could believe it. And the
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: only reason is because when you have been through that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: much abuse and you feel like now that your abuser
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: has thrown you out and you are nothing, he finally
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: was able to get a divorce.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I could see her taking her own life and feeling
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like she had nothing left. However, when she was with
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: us a year ago, this, this girl had fight, she
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: was mentally stable. She was ready to start a new life.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: She was ready to go on a mission trip. She
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: was ready to make an impact on everyone in her
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: community to Michael Maley joining us investigative reporter in South Carolina.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: What is she talking about? A blue truck was near
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: the location where Mica was found dead as far as
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the location, everything that I'm getting from authorities from their
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: release was just tracking her car. Um I don't have
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: information about a blue truck.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Uh just that her Honda was tracked there with a drone. They,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: they did locate the car there, that J P's truck
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: according to authorities based on the license plate, that's the
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: truck that we've seen um in Ory County. Um going
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: and coming to Charleston about three hours from the Lumber
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: River State Park in North Carolina.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Um So Nancy just to clarify that, that's the only
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: information that I've got as far as a truck location
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: near where Micah's body was discovered. We are learning that
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: the cod cause of death at this juncture is suicide.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at her obituary written by her husband who
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: has just been released from his position at that Myrtle
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Beach Church. I I'm curious to Micah's very close friend,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Shayla French. Why is the obit about him so much?
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: What did he write the obit? It looks like it.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So I would like to put a reminder out there.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: She left Kansas in March 20 March 23rd, 2023. Most
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: of us in Kansas where she escaped to have not
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: heard from her since when we looked at that obituary
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: where it says I loved, she loved her husband so much.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: This was not written by her. This was written by
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: a narcissist. It is absolutely disgusting.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Every single way loved her husband so much told him
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: he was the funniest preacher in the world. OK. And
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: uh more and more.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Ok to you Michael Maley joining us investigative reporter out
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of South Carolina. What do you make of that obit?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: And what more can you tell us? Yeah. You know, Nancy,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: it's tough. We can't ask Micah these questions so we
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: can't go into the detail that only she knew in
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: her last moments. Uh, you read this obituary and, and
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: here living in Myrtle Beach, in, in inundated community,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: um, people just bring up, you know, why does the
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: obituary talk, you know about her estranged husband that she
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: thought he was the funniest preacher in the world, uh,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: that she, you know, would praise her husband after every
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: church service telling him he was the best preacher. Um,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: even analytically, even uh objectively. Um I'm sure a psychologist
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: as well. Hold on just a moment. I mean, this
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: thing says I'm looking at it, quote. She and JP,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the pastor had been friends since 2009, married in 2017
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and spent almost every single day and night together, I guess,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: except when he was with his girlfriend.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Yes. No. Were they separated? They were, they were separated? Ok.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: She originally had filed for divorce back in October. So
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: it was ongoing.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Then they were suggesting that they were going to try
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: to rekindle and so that was dropped. So this was
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: a tumultuous pass for since at least October publicly through
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the court record, Scott Johnson joining me forensic psychologist. What
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: are hypnotic drugs? Well, drugs were when people are under
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: the influence they are oftentimes either unable to resist.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Yes. So you're saying you want to do this, you're
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: going to do this? Yes, I will. Even though, you know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: they're not wanting to, but they look normal, sound normal. So,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: um the hypnotic drugs are often used for date rapists,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: um human trafficking and things like that. Curious uh Brian
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Foley veteran, trial lawyer and author
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: final thought, Brian Foley, I mean, if I was a
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: prosecutor and I had evidence that his license plate reader
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: was near the crime scene and he was on video
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: purchasing the gun himself. And there was a 911 call
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: where the victim said he was the one who was
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: going to do it. You'd have a knockdown case. I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: don't know why it doesn't work the other way. Uh
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: JP is innocent. This is the suicide. Well, that's what
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: we're hearing. And to you, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: what do you think
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: over all my years, Nancy as a death investigator in
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: New Orleans in Atlanta, I worked more suicides actually than
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I did homicides. People are amazed by that, but that's
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: the truth in America. And the reality is this, if
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: you live with somebody and you know them and you
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: have control over their life, perhaps, you know, all of
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the pressure points and you have somebody that is emotionally fragile,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: they're wounded, you know, what buttons to press,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you know, electronic tracking devices, these sorts of things and
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: you can push people to the edge edge. Nancy. I've
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: worked cases like that and they are absolutely tragic. And
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the problem is is that at the end of the day,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: you have nothing to hang your hat on other than
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: the fact of what the evidence reveals at the end.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: And there ultimately is no closure and it's very, very tragic.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Let's stop. And remember American hero, Sergeant,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Bill Hoosier, Utah, Sergeant Hoosier struck and killed by a
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: fleeing suspect in a semi,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: survived by his grieving wife, two daughters, granddaughter, American hero, Sergeant,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Bill Hoosier.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our guests for joining us
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: tonight
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: during this moment of confusion and heartbreak for Micah Miller
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Signing off. Good night friend.