Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Spotlight Feature - Derek Mitchell

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Spotlight Feature - Derek Mitchell · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:24
SPEAKER_04: A veteran of the New York City dance scene, Derek Mitchell has been inspiring young dancers across the country for several decades, and he's not about to stop yet.
0:33
SPEAKER_04: You may know him as the choreographer for five seasons of So You Think You Can Dance Ukraine.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: Or maybe you've seen him gracing the cover of Dance Teacher magazine.
0:40
SPEAKER_04: We are so excited to share Derek's story with our listeners.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: Hey y'all, it's Courtney Ortiz, the host of Making an Impact.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to this week's episode.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
0:53
SPEAKER_04: Hey Courtney, hey listeners.
0:55
SPEAKER_04: Can y'all believe it is the end of March?
0:57
SPEAKER_04: I can't.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, I know.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: The season is flying by.
1:02
SPEAKER_04: You've been out all the time.
1:03
SPEAKER_04: Like, did you have a weekend off recently?
1:06
SPEAKER_03: I have I've had a few weekends off.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: I will say I'm very grateful for those weekends off because my season this year has been a little bit more jam-packed than usual.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: And I've been out pretty much every other weekend, or potentially like sometimes I have two weekends in a row where I'm out with Rebel Dance Convention.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: And those weekends, you know, they start for me on Thursday.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: I travel Thursday, I judge all day Friday, I teach all day Saturday, I judge all day Saturday night.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: And then Sundays are usually a little more chill.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: And then we head home and we are back in our beds every single event by Sunday night, which is awesome.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: But it's still like by that point, I only have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: I need a day of recovery on Monday.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: And then uh, you know, catching up on work and emails on Tuesday, Wednesday, and then, you know, jump right back in.
1:52
SPEAKER_03: So it's it's getting the best of me for sure.
1:55
SPEAKER_03: It's uh a lot this season, but I'm so grateful to do what I love every single weekend.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: It's it's a blessing.
2:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:01
SPEAKER_04: And speaking of doing what we what we love, we have a wonderful guest today who um has spent his whole career doing what he loves and inspiring others to do the same.
2:10
SPEAKER_04: So I'm really excited for everybody to hear from our spotlight guest.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes, me too.
2:14
SPEAKER_03: This spotlight guest is a dear friend of mine who I had had the opportunity to work with for the past few years at Revel Dance Convention and teach alongside them, and they're just such a light to our industry, and I'm so happy that they wanted to join us on the pod for this spotlight feature.
2:31
SPEAKER_03: So can't wait to jump into that.
2:33
SPEAKER_04: But before we do, we have a little word from our sponsors.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: Today we are sponsored by Apollo Performance.
2:39
SPEAKER_04: Are you looking for the perfect gift for your dancer this season?
2:42
SPEAKER_04: I have a recommendation from my feet.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: Get them Apollo Shocks.
2:46
SPEAKER_04: They're not only amazing footwear that protect and support your feet, but they are an all-female-owned, 100% made in the USA, and a company that truly cares to help dancers dance longer and stronger.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: Their compression socks make your feet feel amazing and are from a company you can trust.
2:59
SPEAKER_04: I can tell you that I love mine, and I wear them not only while I'm teaching, taking class, in rehearsal, but throughout my daily life, especially on the airplane.
3:08
SPEAKER_04: They offer such great support and compression throughout the day to help alleviate pain and enhance recovery after a long day on your feet.
3:14
SPEAKER_04: Grab your pair of compression socks now for the entire family at apolitperformance.com and use our promo code IMPAT10 in all caps for 10% off your order.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: All right, everyone, and I want to tell you, some of us are Making the Impact Award winners at IDA affiliated competitions.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: We are so excited to be able to give this award sponsored by the podcast out at affiliated events.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: And there must be at least one IDA judge on the judging panel for a dancer to receive this award.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: And this can go to any dance throughout the entire weekend, any age level size of dance, it can go to soloists through productions, but it's that one dance that the judges cannot stop thinking about by the end of the weekend.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: And you know those weekends are long, y'all.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: So this is such a fantastic award to receive, and our judges absolutely love giving it out.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: So I want to give a shout out live on the podcast to one of our recent award winners from Uproar Dance Competitions event in Phoenix, Arizona.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Congrats to Lily Dethridge for her solo back in time from a fusion dance center in Goodyear, Arizona.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: If you are a recipient of the Making the Impact Award, be sure to scan that QR code on the back of your award to register, and you'll then hear your studio shout it out live on the podcast.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: All right, listeners, it's time to jump in to our next spotlight feature episode of season four.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: I am so excited for this guest because I've had the opportunity to teach alongside them for the past seven years on Revel Dance Convention.
4:47
SPEAKER_03: And they're one of my uh favorite faculty members to watch teach because they are just so inspirational in every single moment.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: They are holding that mic up at the front of the stage.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: They have been a resident choreographer in Hamilton on the first national tour.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: They have been an educator and choreographer worldwide, residing in New York City originally, and then has stepped over to Los Angeles, now in Miami, Florida.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: And I am so excited to welcome Derek Mitchell to the podcast.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Derek.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Hi, thanks for having me.
5:20
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
5:21
SPEAKER_03: I've loved your journey in your career.
5:24
SPEAKER_03: I remember your classes in New York City.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: I never took your class in New York City, but I just remember your classes being huge and blown up at Broadway Dance Center and steps on Broadway when I first moved to New York City.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: And it just your name has just been everywhere in especially the New York City dance scene.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: And then for me to be able to like then years later work alongside you, it was just such an honor.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: I felt so lucky to uh, you know, share those moments with you.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: And now we get to work all this time together, which is exciting.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Or I love it.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: One weekend a year.
5:56
unknown: No, I'm kidding.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Depending on the schedule.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: Depending on the schedule, yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: Currently, just yeah.
6:02
SPEAKER_03: I know.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that's definitely the sad thing about this season for us is because we've kind of been separated on our double city weekends at Revel.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: So it makes me really sad.
6:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't get to see you as often.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: I know, I know.
6:14
SPEAKER_03: But Derek, we are pumped to have you share your story and your dance journey with us on the podcast today.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for taking the time and your schedule to make this possible.
6:24
SPEAKER_03: And I I just know you have so much to share because you have so many experiences throughout your time in this industry.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: So let's let's do it.
6:33
SPEAKER_03: Let's jump on in to this chat.
6:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_04: I'm really excited to meet you, first of all.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: I have not had the pleasure of spending a lot of time with you, so super stoked to hear all about your life.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: And what we usually do on our spotlights is we start at the very beginning, which is tell us about how you got into dance.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so my parents were very much like uh explorers of the world.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: I traveled like all over the world when I was younger, so I felt like I was exposed to a lot of different, you know, types of life and types of culture and types of art just right from the get-go.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I started playing like sports when I was young, baseball.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I liked it, but it wasn't like what like drove me.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: I did typical stuff like, you know, play with friends, all that stuff.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: My parents would, you know, like I said, take me to travel around the world.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And then we also did a lot of, you know, seeing movies, seeing Broadway shows, all that stuff, just very like arts related.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: My father was uh like a lighting designer for like a community playhouse, and then my mom was an actress, and then they met through a mutual friend, and then they worked on several productions together.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was mostly like a legal secretary for law firms, but she always had this huge passion for acting.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Dance was part of their lives, but not like that they were dancers.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: And then when I was seven, I had seen, I think it was probably like my sixth or seventh Broadway show at that time, when I saw 42nd Street, the original cast of Garrett Champions musical.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, in 1982.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: And when I saw that, uh, it was like around like I want to say like February, March, or April of that year, uh, right when I was turning seven.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And apparently, like when the curtain like rose up.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: And if you're familiar with 42nd Street, like the original, and even the revival with Randy Skinner um at the helm, it the curtain just basically like lifts up, like maybe like two, two and a half feet, and all you see is just this like, you know, unison time steps and all these dancers on stage, and it's called the audition.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just the feet, and it like kind of pauses and then it like lifts up, and I just my parents always told me like I was crying, and I just I know it made an impact because then I started putting on shows like in my living room.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And these were these were not shows, they were more like I think attempts at trying to be seen, you know what I mean, by my parents that like this is what I love to do.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: So I transformed my living room like into a theater, you know, a very like not great theater, but I mean it was, you know, an opportunity for me to just show my parents like, yeah.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: And I could not dance, like I had no lessons at that point.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: So I think my parents just got exhausted of watching me perform endlessly.
9:06
SPEAKER_04: Do you think there's a VHS tape of this anywhere?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I wish, you know, I wish this was we had a VHS, right?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but this was like pre-three-quarter times.
9:15
SPEAKER_04: A beta max.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was tolerate.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was the time when like my parents had a system that had an eight-track, a record player, and the cassettes weren't even out at this point yet.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
9:26
SPEAKER_01: So, like, I mean, I know the kids right now are like, what's that?
9:28
SPEAKER_04: Oh, so just so just memories of the theatrical production in the living room.
9:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, literally.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: And then that their close friend alerted us that there was this dancing school in the city being opened by Gregory Hines, Maurice Hines, and Frank Hatchett.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And it was called Heinz Hatchet Performing Arts Center.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And they were opening up uh in that fall, fall of 1982.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: And so I started, you know, jazz top and ballet classes like every Saturday there.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was one of the first kids in the children's program.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just started dancing then and kept obviously the shows in my living room going on.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: But my jazz teachers were like, you know, Sheila Barker and Frank Hatchett, and my tap teachers were Gregory and Maurice Hines, and then people like Horace Turnbull uh was a huge tap teacher of mine, John Fredo, Sandra Benita, Benito was my um jazz funk teacher, Madame Darvash was my ballet teacher.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I had like, I didn't even know it at the time, but I had like legends of dance like teaching me.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And I was just wanting to.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, listeners, y'all gotta listen.
10:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
10:30
SPEAKER_04: These are the people.
10:31
SPEAKER_04: These are the these are the OG New York City, like wow.
10:34
SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's weird too, because like now being a teacher for like over 28 years, almost coming up on 30 now, it's weird because like people say, like, oh my god, Derek, like you've been around so long, like, you know, I didn't realize when I was studying with you.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, but it doesn't feel that way when you're doing it.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Like you're just like every teacher is just trying to like rise in their own way and find their own following and and be of service in that way.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I I don't think they even knew they were legends at the time, you know what I mean?
11:02
SPEAKER_01: But like history looks back on you and you're like, wow, I look at these people that I studied with.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And I still talk with Sheila all the time.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: We just had a phone conversation the other day because she found out I was engaged and she was like, she was like screaming at me on the phone.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: She's like, oh my god, like I was like, I was like, this is my dance mom.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: I know this woman for 40 years.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And if it wasn't for her, like I don't even I don't know, she grounds me, let's put it that way.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: So that's how I kind of got into dance, and I just I never went another direction after that.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: So I'm curious to hear, like, so you grew up in New York City.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Brooklyn.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: Where were what borough did you oh you grew up in Brooklyn?
11:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then like this studio, where did that exist in the city?
11:42
SPEAKER_03: Was it in Manhattan?
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was so Heinz Hatch Performing Arts Center was on 55th Street and Broadway, right across from Applejack Diner.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was like one like corner north.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was on what it would eventually be on the second, third, and fourth floor, but in the beginning, I believe it was just on the third and fourth floor.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: And there was like a little spiral staircase that connected the two studios.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
12:01
SPEAKER_03: Two floors.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: How did you what was the commute like?
12:05
SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, were you guys on the subway?
12:07
SPEAKER_03: Like mom, dad taking you.
12:09
SPEAKER_03: Like, how did that work?
12:09
SPEAKER_03: How does that work for like a New York City child to like go take dance class from Brooklyn to Manhattan?
12:15
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was intense back in the day.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: We would sometimes we would take the bus because we lived to like a what was known as like a two-fair zone.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we lived all the way out in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, and we would either take like the B16 or the B4, and we would take it to like either the R train or the N train, depending on like what was having construction, or you know, trains were a lot of times just kind of local.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: So we would it would take a good hour and a half to hour 45 minutes just to get there.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: So it was like a real yeah, it was a real trip.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Bay Ridge is far, my boyfriend lives there.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is definitely not close to the city.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: And I lived there like most of my life.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So every Saturday she would just go with me and then she would kill time with like the other moms, and that's how we got you know close.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: My one of my like best friends growing up was Savion Glover, like, and her mom, his mom was so like influential.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Yvette was like, she's actually on screaming dance boy on one of my solos at Heinz Hatchet, which then was BDC Atlantic.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then just for anyone knowing, Heinz Hatchet Performing Arts Center is now Brabbit Dance Center.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: So, like two years later, uh Richard Elner bought it and it became Brahmay Dance Center.
13:19
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
13:19
SPEAKER_04: No, the evolution of New York City dance is just fascinating.
13:22
SPEAKER_04: Yes, it's fascinating.
13:24
SPEAKER_04: And the fact that you lived it and grew up in it.
13:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
13:28
SPEAKER_04: And now you're teaching alongside Sheila Barker.
13:30
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't know if the listeners really understand like what that actually means.
13:34
SPEAKER_04: Like you are literally on par now with one of your mentors and one of the biggest names in New York City dance.
13:40
SPEAKER_04: Like that's amazing.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: That is one of the most humbling things.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And I remember like reaching out to her, like I think it was it was right before the apocalypse.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: We did a team teach class together.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And it was amazing.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I got a chance to teach like with my mentor, and it was, oh my god, it was I can't even tell you how like unbelievable that was.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: It was very humbling, very, very humbling.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:03
SPEAKER_04: Just a shout out to Sheila and one of uh our IDA judges who's been on the podcast before, uh, Michelle Tolson.
14:09
SPEAKER_04: Michelle has a podcast called Jam, in which they interviewed Sheila uh recently, I think it was either this season or last season.
14:15
SPEAKER_04: So y'all go check that out too because she's a legend.
14:18
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, check that out.
14:19
SPEAKER_04: We'll link that in the show notes.
14:21
SPEAKER_03: I also think that it's an it exciting and important to just touch on the fact that like you're like, especially like we as New Yorkers, all of us have you are a New Yorker, Derek, even if you're in Miami now.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: But um, all of us know how hard it is to get anywhere in this city when we're relying on public transit and things, and for like the sacrifice that your parents were willing to do to take you, even if it was just one time a week or two times a week, an hour and a half on multiple forms of public transit to support your dream and to make that happen for you.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: I think it's so important for people to hear that because you wouldn't be where you are if your parents didn't pick that exact studio for you to go to.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: They probably could have picked Dolly Dinkle down the street in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: But they were like, I hear this one's great.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take my my son to this and support their dream.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: And I think that, you know, a lot of parents listening might be like, oh, well, this studio's closer, but the training's not as good, but this one's 45 minutes away.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: And do I really want to have to take my kid all the way to that?
15:21
SPEAKER_03: It's like, do the research and do it.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Like take your kids because I feel the same way growing up where I trained, it was out of the way, like it wasn't the most convenient location, but it was the best training.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: My parents didn't really know that at the time.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: They just, you know, I was already committed, but like it I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: So, like, to all the parents out there, like like, shout out to your parents, Derek, for like believing in your dream and like making it happen for you and making those sacrifices because it's a lot, that's a long travel.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a huge travel.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: And I remember like uh one of my close friends in high school, Heather Gugliametti, she in the drama department of performing arts high school, like she lived all the way out in Huguenot in Staten Island.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: And I remember like when we used to go to her house to like for parties and stuff like that during high school, she would take like a 20-minute walk to the train station to the Staten Island train, which you know is the slowest train ever.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: It's worse than like the G or the Yeah, it's almost like the G train where it's like doesn't really even exist, you know what I mean?
16:19
SPEAKER_01: And then she would take the train all the way to the ferry, then take the Staten Island Ferry, and then take the one or nine train.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Remember that?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: So the one or nine train all the way to the content.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: We didn't live here.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, like, I was like, oh my goodness.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is what you do every day.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: And she was really committed to it.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, that's amazing.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: That is that is wild.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:41
SPEAKER_04: You mentioned the high school for performing arts.
16:43
SPEAKER_04: Is that where you went?
16:44
SPEAKER_04: Uh New York City one?
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: So I went to like a normal, you know, elementary school.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh I was in like a gifted program just for like, I don't know, I guess gifted kids.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel gifted, but anyway, like I just felt like kid.
16:56
unknown: I don't know, it was weird.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: I guess I did good on like aptitude tests and stuff.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: And then I went to Mark Twain Junior High School, which was like a little bit more arts related.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's where Keith Diorio went, that everyone will know as Tys Diorio.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: And so we went to the same junior high school different times, but we knew each other from there.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: And then specifically because I was bullied so much in junior high school, even though I was in like a magnet school for the arts, there were also non art, like non-performing or non-mm, you know, musician arts there.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: There was also like creative people, but in different disciplines.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: And so I got bullied like really bad.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: I was the only guy in the dance department similar to Keith Diorio.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: And so then I decided to go to performing arts high school.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: I additioned to dance and drama and I got in both.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: And I chose drama just because I was like, I can't go through another four years of this.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Because bullying back then was even, I don't know what's worse, you know, time period.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: I think bullying just thinks for everyone, but it was it was really, it was it was difficult.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And so I chose drama, which actually wound up being the best decision I had ever made.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Because it just taught me to be not just a technician of dance, but a performer of dance and to perform with intention and storytelling, which was something that was not always given to me in dance classes.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Not that my teachers weren't amazing, but I didn't focus on how storytelling is so, so, so important.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: That's like the other layer on top of the technique, you know.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: And like that's great that you were a exposed to that, especially at a young age, like high school age.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: And then that also probably gave you an idea as to like where you wanted your career to go by being exposed to that drama uh field in high school.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: And this was like the elite.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like my my scene partner, like in our high school production, and one of my close friends all throughout high school was Sarah Paulson.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Like we were close friends all the time.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: She was in the past like all the time.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, no, I know Sarah like really, really well.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: And watching her just like blow up, I was like, yes, work.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: So we're talking about the fame high school.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
18:59
SPEAKER_04: That's the okay.
19:00
SPEAKER_04: So for all our listeners out there, when we say the performing arts high school, we mean the fame high school.
19:04
SPEAKER_04: So some of the parents might know what that means.
19:06
SPEAKER_04: Like that that's a big deal, and again, that's a very big deal.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And we did, even though we're in drama department, we danced on the desks.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: We danced on the like we did all that.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: But then like right after we left, yeah, it got like much more like you know, like all the rules came into effect.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, we lived that we lived that thing that was in fame, like Debbie Allen fame.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:25
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: So were you still dancing at what became BDC at that time?
19:30
SPEAKER_04: Um what was the trajectory of that like?
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I did like open classes and stuff.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, school was, you know, 8 a.m.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: to like 2 50 p.m., 240 p.m., depending on the release.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: And then I would either do a job or like go take class or stuff like that.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: And then there was a point where like for two years in my high school times, just it would got so busy that I actually was not openly taking classes outside of high school.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Like we had like our you know, drama dance class uh taught by an amazing woman, Sandra Aldini.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And I loved her so much, and she gave me an opportunity to like choreograph in the spring um drama festival, uh, which was awesome.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: It was like one of my first like choreography credits.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was it was amazing.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I kind of just stopped dancing for like two years just because I don't know.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: I just I I felt like dance was just still something that was always associated with me, and I just always found myself continuously bullied or made fun of.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even realize that part of it was just because I was a gay kid and just didn't even know what that was.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
20:30
SPEAKER_01: So I think like that was something that just crept into my life and always hung over my life.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: So high school happens when you were a senior and you're determining your future at college, or do I go into the industry, or do I want to go into theater, or am I even gonna be a dancer?
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Like what what were your thoughts?
20:52
SPEAKER_03: What were you thinking?
20:52
SPEAKER_03: Where where were you hoping uh to go next?
20:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I always succeeded in school if it was something that wasn't just academics.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Like I was on the honor roll like all throughout up until like eighth grade.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Once I entered high school, like I don't know, I just felt like this the education system in America wasn't like it didn't feel progressive enough where I was like leading towards something.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: It just felt like more, I don't know, of like when we were doing like logic and math, I was like, what is all this for?
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna become a mathematician.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Like I know how to add, I know how to multiply.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is all this for?
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I know it's like building, you know, reasoning skills and and and problem solving and stuff like that.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: But at a certain point, I was like, this just feels ridiculous.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like I'm like moving forward as a human being and learning new tools, like, you know, how to do my taxes or like, you know, how to be successful in business, or you know, like I wasn't learning like tools that I wish I was taught.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: I feel like high school kind of just like stops the growth at a certain point and you have to just like fend for yourself.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, like we should be learning other tools there.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of like bowed out mentally because I was so far ahead anyway, that I I had most of my credits by mid June.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Junior year.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So senior year was like I could have already graduated in junior year or had enough credits.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: And so I just kind of just put all my love into like dance and drama.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: And I started performing like solo shows at my church, which were absolutely terrible.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And those videos will never surface.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: So there is footage of that.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there is footage.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it will never surface.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: I will never allow that.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: I keep it for posterity, but it's it's in a very safe place.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: So I just I kind of kept the dance path open and stuff, but I wanted to not go to university only because I knew that dance is from 95% of the time a young person's game.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Like you do need to be younger to dance.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Not that you can't dance into your 90s.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: I've seen tappers do it.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: There was just this hundred-year-old woman who I just saw on Instagram and I posted to her on my story because she was amazing.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: She was killing it.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, this is so inspiring.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: But the kind of dance I wanted to do was much more like, you know, 20s, 30s, you know what I mean?
23:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't want to take four years.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I knew what I wanted to do with my life.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that it wasn't necessary to do college.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: And I also felt that university programs, unlike the ones of today, like Marymount, Pace, you know, Point Park, those are really great for commercial dance as well now, where back in the day, universities were kind of only offering like Lamon or Horton and stuff like that.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: What while that's great and you should get that training, I don't think you need four years of that.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: You can easily get that outside and still audition.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
23:28
SPEAKER_01: And these colleges, I feel like they they bring you into this route where concert dance doesn't.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know a lot of concert dance companies where like the dancers don't really make money.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And they have second and third jobs.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and it stinks because dance is just not supported in the way that it should be, and definitely not, you know, uh honored with payment in the same way that it should be.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: So I just said, you know what?
23:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take a year off and just see.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And then I just started like, you know, trying to find myself as a person, who I was, what my place in this world was, started auditioning, blah, blah, blah.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: And then at a t I was waitering, you know, waiting tables and I was at Tony Roma's serving ribs in Brooklyn.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: And this girl, Um Dean, she came up to me and all of a sudden she was a fellow waitress and she just did a double pirouette out of nowhere.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, you're a dancer?
24:18
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Yeah.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: And I was, and she was unbelievable.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just one of the best dancers I've probably ever seen and worked with.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And then I showed her like my double turn, and then she was like, Oh, I teach at a studio, and it happened to be right around the corner from my grandfather's house in Brooklyn, like very, very close to where I was living anyway, literally right around the corner.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, You should come by, blah, blah, blah.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I we talked about like putting on a show together.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: So we did.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: We just put on this, created the show together, and she unfortunately was dealing with some sickness.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she introduced me to these girls, uh, Alice and Debbie and Carolyn.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: And we basically like built this show with my friend Danielle, who I had also um known from it's like uh seven degrees, six degrees of separation there.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And we all built this show together, and ultimately that turned into me bartering for space at the studio to rehearse.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: And so the woman who owns the studio Dimensions and Dance, she said, Pat McGuire, she said, like, I have this uh, you know, opportunity for you to teach in bartering for your space.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: So she basically just gave me a tap class and a jazz class to her younger girls and older girls.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: And so she paid me$10 a class after I was bartering for the space.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: She put me on faculty.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: And then I started laying out routines that the girls wanted to compete with.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was totally against competitions at that time in my life.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: I just didn't feel like I guess it was because I was growing up at a time.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: How old are you at this time?
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Like this was like 19.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like 18, 19, 19, 19.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: And I just remember like competing on not me competing on Star Search, but trying to be like on Star Search back in the day.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And Star Search was like this multidisciplinary competition where it was like singers would sometimes go against dancers, which is how do you I I didn't understand the formula of that show, it was really bizarre.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: And even like Beyonce apparently didn't make it, which was crazy.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Like Beyoncé.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like how how is that possible?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Like so like Ed McMahon.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, seriously, Ed McGranley, you get it together.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, singers would go against dancers, and it was there was so much like conflict in my head about that.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And so I just decided the competitions were just not good because why would art compete?
26:27
SPEAKER_01: I've never understood that.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: Now I get it because like I've been around for a long time in competition world.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And the competitive aspect of it kept me away, but then they were like, we really just want to do it.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Can we just do these three numbers?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And then those three numbers won me best choreography at Dance Olympus from Frank Hatchett.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Like Frank Hatchett was one of the judges, which is the reason why I agreed to do it.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I won Best Choreography and three first place awards, and that just like changed the whole trajectory of my life.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: And I was hired the next day by this MC Richard DeSarno at Dance Olympus, which was owned by Art and Nancy Stone.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: And Richard DeSarno walked up to me and he was like, You're the one who's responsible for those three numbers, right?
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And back then you could not be the choreographer and be in your own piece.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So we listed the studio owner as the choreographer, as the choreographer.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: And then he just could tell.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: I guess by the way, I was dancing my own work uh with the girls.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: And he said, So you were dancing in it at the competition?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: But we listed another person as a choreographer, like the studio owner.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And then she went up to go get the award and she just handed it right to me.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And I guess everyone saw it because we were all hysterical crying.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't even believe it.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Like kids now have no reaction to getting an award.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: It's so like weird to watch.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: I was hysterical crying.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: All the whole studio was crying.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: We were like on the floor sobbing, like, and these kids now get like ultimate, they're like, Oh, thanks.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, like I'm like, where's your reaction?
27:49
SPEAKER_01: What is this?
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I and that's why I stepped out of the competition world for a while because I was like, I I want to see kids happy and like grateful, and they didn't seem like they were grateful for.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, all right, whatever.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: And then he asked me to teach for dance olympus.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Nice that next day.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: And that was my very first convention.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: And he literally said to me one thing that I will never forget.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: He said, Don't ever teach anything here as hard as what you did in the competition.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, yeah, it was like really interesting.
28:19
SPEAKER_04: I was like, Oh, wow, okay.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
28:21
SPEAKER_04: You can't be alienating, folks.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: I think that was what that was about.
28:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: I think it's exciting to know, like to hear different people's stories on our podcast and to see like how their career started.
28:35
SPEAKER_03: You weren't even looking to teach.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: It felt literally fell into your lap in so many ways.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: You happen to see somebody do a pirouette while you're waiting tables, and next thing you know, you're teaching on Dance Olympus.
28:48
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, yeah, it was crazy.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was crazy how it all works out.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: I I really thought like in my brain that teachers had to be over 40 or 50.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
28:57
SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, I mean, because that you you were taught by legends.
29:00
SPEAKER_04: I mean, why wouldn't you think that?
29:01
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, you know, but Art and Nancy Stone.
29:05
SPEAKER_04: Art and Nancy Stone owned one of the biggest, clearly, obviously, one of the biggest dance competitions and conventions back in the early days.
29:12
SPEAKER_04: But then some of our listeners will know those names from the costume catalog, you know, that they for a long time as well.
29:18
SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
29:19
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, I think I I just keep bringing these things up because I think some of our listeners do not know the they don't understand the history of it because they haven't been a part of it.
29:28
SPEAKER_04: But, you know, just just to point out again, like legends, legends.
29:32
SPEAKER_04: You were working for legends, and it's just, it's I I'm kind of a nerd.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: So like that's so exciting.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And I have one thing too to add to that is Dance Olympus came from Dance Caravan.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: And Dance Caravan was one of the first ones ever where literally it was called Dance Caravan because they were a competition and convention company that traveled around in a caravan.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, literally, that's what they're doing.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's how it began.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, talk about grassroots.
30:00
SPEAKER_03: Like yes, like innovating our industry by taking a taking dance on tour.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: On tour.
30:07
SPEAKER_03: Saying, here are these awesome teachers around the, you know, from different parts of the industry.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: Who now we all know that as a dance convention, but they were true innovators and leaders in that world.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: It's a good thing.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: And my first tour out with them, I had to teach opposite Frank Hatchett.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: I was dying.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: I was mortified.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I literally felt mortified.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how in the world am I gonna be on faculty with my my dance dad?
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, I was I was so nervous, I couldn't sleep.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: For the first three years of being on tour, like I was not able to sleep the night before teaching.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: I literally, it would just, the combos would just go in my head.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, um, oh, so much sleep, so much.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: I could not sleep, literally.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I was literally not being able to close my eyes and fall asleep.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can't imagine.
30:56
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, but how terrifying awesome.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh unbelievably awesome.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: So this fell into your lap to teach on Dance Olympus.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: You you are now a convention teacher.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: You don't have much teaching experience at all at this moment.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: But maybe two years at home studio, yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: But also it says like there's something special about your choreography that intrigued some, you know, them to hire you for this.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: So you're obviously great at choreographing and you're learning the ropes as an educator.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: So you said you did that for three years.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: Were you doing other things in between that?
31:31
SPEAKER_03: Did you start teaching elsewhere or were you working as a professional dancer?
31:35
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, I was just like, I was waiting tables, I was going on like auditions for like, you know, regional tours and stuff.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: And I was just really just trying to like find my way.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't, I just didn't think like teaching was something to do at this age.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: It was like super confusing.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: And then I had recently come out at that time and I was going through like that transition of being openly gay in a time when like gay was not in the media and gay was not in culture and like it was not talked about.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: And so like coming out, I don't even know how I got the strength to do that.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I just, I don't know.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I just I went through like some very uncomfortable times, you know, with like just finding myself and drugs and stuff.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Like I got mixed up in all that as well and trying to find my way out of that.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: And I did, but yeah, I was I I didn't really start like teaching teaching at like places like Broadway Dance Center or you know, steps or peridance until like I was maybe like 25.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: I think that's really kind of when that started.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: So I had like six years of, you know, teaching at like a local studio or like stuff like that.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: And then Dance Olympus kind of like was my thing where I used it and it took a long time to get to BDC.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, even though I had been there my whole life, like, and Sheila later told me that, you know, she was stopping my application from going through because she just didn't feel like I was ready yet.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And so was Frank.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, but that was that helped me because like I think there's something to be held back, you know what I mean?
33:07
SPEAKER_01: Because it makes the resistance creates more opportunity and drive and passion for you to get to that next level.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: When you're just given something automatically or too quickly, you have no feelings of gratefulness.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
33:20
SPEAKER_01: I know that's not a word, but like you, you're not grateful at all for what you've been given if you didn't work to achieve it.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: And so I emailed Broadway Dance Center for four years straight on Friday evenings when like email became a thing.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: Because previously I was like constantly sending my headshot resume out with a cover letter and everything and you had to do like all the groundwork in the mail, actually using the USPS.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: And I remember I would always want the email to hit them on Monday morning.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And I would constantly ask for sub work and they just like nothing was available, went for an interview, nothing was available, blah, blah.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: And then I finally started teaching subbing.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: What it was two weeks before, I remember because it was right when Aliyah died.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: It was two weeks before September 11th.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And I started teaching there, uh, just subbing.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like kind of like a fraud.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I would walk around the place and and this was my home, but I really felt like a fraud.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And I kept looking at the other teachers and seeing like their success of their classes, and like I felt like I could do it, but I just didn't know how to like level up.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: And then I started teaching my first boyfriend, Mark.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's the regional director, like actually national director now for Crunch, uh, the gym.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: And Crunch was like really big back in the day.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: It was like known for like its dance classes.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: And we started dating, and then I started teaching at Equinox a little bit, and then I transferred over to Crunch like pretty soon after because I realized Equinox was not the right fit for me at that time.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: And I was at Crunch for like 12 years.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: My classes, like it was lunacy.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: I was teaching dance at Crunch, and then I went into the whole fitness realm as well.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: But my classes were like, I mean, packed, waitless.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I made the news like multiple times.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Like my classes were by far the most packed.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: It was insane.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Like there were waitless two hours.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: People would send their assistance for the yeah, you know, it's like normal for the dance industry, but then to like switch the clientele and switch the customer to a fitness, you know, style, like adults that love to dance, and you're creating this space for them that's really fun and relatable, and they can you know do it.
35:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, of course, there's gonna be a non-dance in New York City.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, right.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: And they were all ages.
35:29
SPEAKER_04: Who would have been intimidated to go to Broadway Dance Center, yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: And they were actually professional dancers who got crunch memberships just to take the classes that were there because they were like, oh, I can be part of a gym and still have great dance classes.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I gotta save some money.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like Dexter Um Carr used to teach there too at Crunch, like towards like the later point points.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And so what's interesting to me, and Sheryl Murakami, famous Sheryl Murakami, amazing Cheryl Murakami, Beyoncé's choreographer, one of Beyoncé's choreographers, is like she was at New York Sports Club and she was as big as at New York Sports Club as I was at Crunch.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: And then we both sort of like used that to propel ourselves into Broward Dance Center.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: But that honestly, that that time learning how to teach non-dancers educated me as a dance teacher.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Because I had to be able to like know how to transfer that information to people who didn't understand the information right out the bat, you know, right out the gate.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: And so like that that was that was really where I learned how to teach, to be honest.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: That was like the best instruction I've ever gotten.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: I think it's so important to mention that, and we've said this multiple times on the podcast, that not every dancer is going to be a great teacher.
36:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: And not every choreographer is going to be a great teacher.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: And I think that like on your end, Derek, it uh it evolved through the years where you kind of were all automatically a fantastic choreographer, and that's what got you recognized to then become a teacher.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: But you were kind of like, yo, I don't really have experience in teaching yet.
37:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, you've only worked with one age group of dancers before on the educator side of things.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: And then now, of you know, through your evolution of your teaching career and getting to work with non-dancers and dancers who are adults who are beginners, like that sculpted you as an educator and taught you lessons on how to approach teaching versus creating choreography.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: And I think that it's it's so helpful to hear that journey because there's a lot of dancers who just get thrown into, okay, you're a teacher now, but they've never really learned how to teach.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
37:41
SPEAKER_03: There's a whole and that's how I felt too.
37:44
SPEAKER_03: I the exact same situation as you.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: I got thrown in to teaching.
37:47
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't looking for it, I wasn't asking for it, it fell into my lap and I took the opportunity.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: But did I feel like I was a good teacher when I was 21 years old?
37:56
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely not.
37:56
SPEAKER_03: I didn't have the experience.
37:58
SPEAKER_03: I didn't, you know, through my years, I progressed and became a better educator.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think it's it's really unique to hear, you know, how you how you came about.
38:07
SPEAKER_03: And also like so inspiring to hear that you were okay with getting your application denied at BDC and having that fuel you.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: I and it's so it's so interesting to hear that.
38:19
SPEAKER_03: As you're saying that, I'm like, dang, I wish that they were still like that.
38:23
SPEAKER_03: I wish they were too idea.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my goodness.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, they just can't get anybody these days.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Please don't get me started on that.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother, that's a whole nother podcast.
38:34
SPEAKER_04: I mean, pre-9-11 BDC was the original the first location, right?
38:39
SPEAKER_04: There that's not where they were now, like where you were teaching them.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so they they were on, yeah, they were on 55th and Broadway, then they moved to Hard Rock, like above Hard Rock on 57th Street.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: Then they were in an interim space when Allison uh sold it.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: And then it was in like the Actors Church and like Club H Fitness or something like that.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: And and then uh Ripley Greer's not no, it wasn't Ripley Greer, it was like some other studio.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's the one that's on like 9th Avenue that now is Ripley Greer, but it was like something else.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember the name of it, but it was it was almost like a Fables.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it was called.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you remember Fasals?
39:14
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like a Fasals, yeah.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, what's that?
39:17
SPEAKER_01: You don't remember Fasals?
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Faisals was this writ rehearsal studio that we used to use like back in my very young, young life.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And it was like three floors.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: It was on like Ninth Avenue, and I want to say like 48th or 49th Street.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: It was the most broken down rehearsal studio ever.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: It had you could almost see through the third floor, like the third floor into the second floor, through the floor.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: The floors were so broken down.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, no.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: If you were like a Broadway hustler, like like hustling to get Broadway shows, and you were like a chorus member, you knew Fasals.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Like Fasals was like was so broken down, but it was like really cheap and it had a real sense of community.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: But Fasals, yeah, was really broken down.
39:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: I say this in my classes all the time, and I try to get them to understand like there is a very big difference.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: Like I am, I've never really considered myself a dancer.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I know I dance, but it's not my strong suit.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, that is not, I don't have the body for it, I don't have the uh flexibility for it, I don't have the technique for it.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: I've worked on all those things specifically because I had vision and I wanted to know what I was talking about.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: So I like I got dance experience and I got dance training and I got some amazing dance training, but it wasn't something that filled my heart.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: Like I like to entertain, but I wouldn't say that it only exists in dance.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not that my body needs to fully entertain.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: It's more like I just love, you know, creating an atmosphere.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
40:36
SPEAKER_01: I love the entertaining through that atmosphere.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: So I think like I'm an okay dancer, I think I'm a solid choreographer, I think I'm an amazing teacher.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Like I know as an educator, I know exactly what I offer in the room.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm very purposeful about it.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: It's very, you know, I predict what's gonna happen.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm very open to the energies in the room, even if they're horrible energies, because sometimes the room, it's it could be the parents, it could be the teachers, it could be someone who walks in.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Like I feel the energy in all the rooms.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I'm triggering for people because I'm, you know, exposing what they're going through.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: I push the envelope as much as I possibly can because that's what Frank and Sheila did for me.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's what the old teachers did.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: We pushed the envelope and we got you know, students and dancers of all ages to like open up and really express themselves because that's art.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: And now this, you know, with how woke and aware and overly offended everyone is now, it's really difficult to like be that style teacher without being raked over the coals.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been raked over the coals so many times in the last couple of years.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, stop like making it about you.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: It's not, I'm here for your kids.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying anything that's really gonna like offend them.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: You're being offended because you're scared that your kids are gonna be exposed to something, you know, horrific and they're gonna blame you.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's not about that.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
41:49
SPEAKER_01: It's just really about like, let's make these kids as artistic and expressive as possible.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: And that that's what we all want to be as human beings is like to be seen and heard in a beautiful way, even if it's just through our art.
42:06
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43:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love all of that so, so, so much.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: And it's so true about you being a fantastic educator.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: Like I said at the very beginning of this episode, like I am so inspired to every time I get to watch your class, take your class, even just there are m there are so many times that you're s just saying beautiful things that are going to stay in someone's mind and head b the moment they leave that class, besides just spitting out.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Autography.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's more than just spitting out choreography in a class.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: We're here as educators, especially in, you know, convention style settings or any classroom, to share that knowledge that we've learned through our mentors and our experience in this industry with the next generation.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes that means there needs to be a moment to speak about it and not just dance about it all the time.
44:24
SPEAKER_03: That's what education is, I think, in the classroom.
44:27
SPEAKER_03: And we I think that gets a little lost in our current like convention world, especially and like adult professional training world.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: Honestly, all training world because we're just drilling technique and combos in in studio classes.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: Then in BDC, we barely do a warm-up these days before we're already jumping in and filming choreography.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: And like, where's the conversations being had?
44:49
SPEAKER_03: Where are those life lessons being had when we're just doing Choreo 24-7?
44:54
SPEAKER_03: You know?
44:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:56
SPEAKER_03: So I I appreciate that you uh share so much in your in your classes and really make everyone like discover themselves even more who's taking your class, which is so important.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: And what's weird is like I don't even know where I learned that from because I I honestly can tell you, like all of my teachers growing up, I don't know a thing about their private lives.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: I never knew anything about Frank Hatchet's private life.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: I never knew anything private about Sheila until like my adult years.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, but as a child, I never knew.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: And I always just wanted to be, I wanted to be, I wanted the students to feel seen and and heard before we even came up with that jargon recently.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, like Frank Hatchet just had this way, and everyone agrees.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: Like every single person I've ever met who took Frank Hatchet's class, it doesn't matter what age they are.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: They literally said, like, you felt seen.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: It and his classes were packed, packed in a way that and he had like 14 or more a week.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: And every single one waitlist to get in.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: It was literally impossible to get into that class.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: You had to like really get there early, early, early to sign up.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was lunacy.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: And no one, I don't care who it is, could ever sell out that capacity again.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Like Frank Hatchett just it was, yeah, it was at a level that like no everyone thinks they're so popular now, but I'm like, no, no, no, you have no idea.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: Frank Hatch was like, it was beyond what you can even imagine.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: And he created, I mean, like Michelle Barber and Sheila and Lane Knapper, you know what I mean, like and Heather Rigg and myself, and you know, and then I created, you know, like Emily Greenwell and like, you know, like some of the Revel faculty, John Platero was my student, and Miles Keaney and Trevor Soans, you know what I mean?
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Like there's it's so interesting to see like how it all kind of like, yeah, you know, is cumulative.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: And but it comes from I think making yourself stand out in whatever way you can as an educator.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's yes, it's the choreo sometimes, but it's really just how you connect to yourself to find the choreo.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: And I'll push the students in whatever way that I can.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: And some people just mistake it for aggression rather than just passion.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think that triggers some people.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: And it it's unfortunate just because like I love these kids.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: I really do.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I just want them to like be the most artistic, most expressive versions of themselves.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Even if they never dance again.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Like even it's just on a human perspective.
47:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: Uh I love, I love all of that.
47:17
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so uh you're teaching at Crunch, you're teaching at BDC, all the things.
47:23
SPEAKER_03: What's next for you?
47:24
SPEAKER_03: Where are we in this timeline?
47:26
SPEAKER_01: So the first one that gave me an opportunity was Perry Dance and Steps in their children's program.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: So that's really how I entered like the New York teaching scene.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: So uh Shelly from Perry Dance and then Suzy from Steps were the ones who kind of like Susie Norton Deserto, like she like they kind of like gave me an opportunity to teach, which I thought was amazing.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: And I always wanted adult classes, but when the kids were put in front of me, I already knew how to teach kids.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: So I was just like, oh, this is amazing.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: Great.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: Then I started teaching there, blah, blah, blah.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: And then I tried to get on staff at you know, BDC.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: And BDC at that time said, like, you can't teach for another dance organization and be with us.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: And I was, but then I realized that other people were doing that.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, yeah, but this person is and that person and that person.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, right.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, what is this?
48:14
SPEAKER_01: And then I realized it wasn't just that, it was the other thing where they were like, you know, you need to like, you know, get more experience and stuff like this.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: I was like, great, awesome.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: So then I just started auditioning for like off-Broadway shows and stuff.
48:24
SPEAKER_01: And then I finally, after like multiple auditions, probably like six, I booked uh The Donkey Show, which was a show that was off-Broadway created by Diane Paulis and Randy Weiner.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: And that was my first opportunity to work with Diane, which was, I mean, so informative.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: And she's probably one of the my favorite people that I've ever worked with.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Extremely collaborative, difficult to make her laugh, very difficult to make her laugh.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's very serious and focused.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: But when you do get to laugh, when you do get to see her laugh, like you can see that joy just radiating through her.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: But I learned so much from her.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: And then I became like an associate for Donkey Show like years later, one of the dance captains.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: I swung every role of the show, but it took forever to get the show.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: And then they asked me to uh co-choreograph with Mark from Crunch, uh, the karaoke show, which was like a karaoke retelling of uh Comedy of Errors, Shakespeare.
49:14
SPEAKER_04: Cool.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I built that with them.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, then I just started.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: I was also working on a show with my best friend Danielle.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: She was the composer and co-writer of it and director.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: And we worked on the show for like eight years.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: We had performed it at like Theater 22, which is on 54th Street, really small little black box theater.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: Then we did it at American Theater of Oh, sorry, Theater 22 on 22nd Street, then American Theater of Actors next to uh the jail on 54th Street.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: That's the only reason why we know it.
49:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we did it at uh Dance Theater Workshop.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we produced it there for like two, like 10 shows.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: It kind of failed every time.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: I know it's not really a failure because it led to other things, but it just didn't do what we thought it was going to do and blah, blah, blah.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I really put all my eggs in that one basket while I was teaching.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: And I would use all my convention money and class money to fund that because I was still living at home, which, you know, allowed me to pursue all those things.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: And then in when I was 25 years old, you know, it was around time of September 11th, then I finally got on BDC faculty and then I moved out to LA because you moved out that quickly?
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because September 11th uh changed New York City in a way for me that didn't feel like it was New York anymore.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: And it just felt dangerous.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know, I had broken up from a relationship at that point, and I just like I was just like running away in hindsight.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I ran to LA.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: I got like this sublet.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: And just as I was about to like sign onto my new apartment, I was teaching a crunch, and Edge was about to bring me onto their children's program.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: It just felt like the LA energy, it just felt really toxic.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, this is not how I want to be.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Like New York, as much as New York can be toxic too, I didn't find myself in the toxic circles in New York.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: I found myself like, I don't know, it felt more community for me in New York and it felt more transparent, where LA, it's it's all about the cover.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: You have to protect yourself in LA.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a really harsh city.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: So and I get it now that I've, you know, lived out there for so long.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: And so then I moved back to New York and that's when everything happened.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's when I realized that it's not about, it's not about the destination.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: It really is just about the journey.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: And that journey to sever everything from New York was perfect because that's when I, when I moved back like a couple of months later, and literally I was out there for like 10 seconds.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: I realized that I could redesign my life in my own making at that point because I had severed everything.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have to just take everything back.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: I could choose what I actually wanted.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: And so that choice allowed me to be much more concise in, you know, where my energies were going to be spent.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: And so then I just, you know, was fierce with the mailings.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mail emailed everybody.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: I got on dance educators of America.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: So I taught for DEA for a little bit.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: I did like in-studio conventions with my friend Tamra Squires, who owns Tam Jams, um, kind of like a revel recharge, but like one of the first ones where like she made like a mini convention in a studio for more personalized uh dance education.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just started just teaching for like judging for like headliners and you know, showstopper, or not showstoppers, there was another one.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember the other one.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: But just started judging and teaching and all that kind of stuff.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: And then finally got on faculty at BDC and then I've been teaching there for over 20 years and selling out classes there, and then taught contemporary and jazz funk and theater, and I then I was on faculty at steps and peridance, and then yeah, it just kind of all spiraled into lonest thing.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: What about this dance teacher full spread cover that's beautifully placed right behind your head?
52:48
SPEAKER_03: Tell us about how that happened.
52:50
SPEAKER_03: How did that come about?
52:51
SPEAKER_01: That that was a complete surprise.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: I would say like the there were three things that just kind of like fell into my lap in my life.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: And uh it's not fallen like it I lucked out.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: It was like my work had somehow got circled around so much that people were talking, I guess, about me.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: And I've never felt oddly successful is a really weird thing.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: I try to tell kids about this all the time.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: But like, you don't feel successful when you're successful.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: You really don't because you the work is intensified to a level where you're so busy in your success that you don't feel it.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: So I get how like people get hungry for like likes and views and all that kind of stuff because it is validation because you don't feel validated while you're doing what you're doing.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: You're just doing what you're doing.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: It's just hard.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
53:36
SPEAKER_01: You're not thinking, yeah, yeah, it's just really hard.
53:38
SPEAKER_01: And so Dance Magazine just came in an email.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: They were just like, hey, we've heard about you from so many different sources and we've been following your work.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: We would really love to, you know, talk about having you on the cover of October 2014.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: And it was one year after my mom died, and I really feel like that's what she like passed along to me.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: And then the same thing with Hamilton, and the same thing with So You Think You Can Dance.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: Like So You Think You Dance in Ukraine was just like an email that came in.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: They said, like, we've been following your YouTube work for years, and we really want to bring you over to choreographed for the show.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: And that turned into like four seasons and 15 pieces for the show, which was I mean, it was amazing because that was like that was probably one of my favorite gigs ever because I got to travel, dance, and you know, do what I love and eat.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: I love to eat.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: I got to do all three at once.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: It was amazing, yeah.
54:29
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: I it's really like that, truly in the industry.
54:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh a lot of people don't realize how things just kind of happen.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: And and it really is like you said, the work that you've put in.
54:41
SPEAKER_03: That's what led you to these opportunities.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: But but I think that's what's so exciting about this kind of like we're not like a nine to five corporate job as a professional dancer.
54:52
SPEAKER_03: We we create our own path and our own journey.
54:56
SPEAKER_03: And I think like that's something that fuels me and excites me every single day when I wake up.
55:01
SPEAKER_03: What's coming today?
55:02
SPEAKER_03: Like, you never know when you're gonna get that email.
55:05
SPEAKER_03: You never know when that opportunity starts.
55:07
SPEAKER_04: Well, you never know who's watching you from behind the curtain.
55:10
SPEAKER_04: And that's kind of the cool thing too, is that like you're just going about your life, you're doing your best, you're trying your best, you're trying new things.
55:17
SPEAKER_04: And then all of a sudden somebody emails you and said, We see you.
55:20
SPEAKER_04: We see that you've done your best.
55:22
SPEAKER_04: You didn't know we were watching, but we've been watching.
55:24
SPEAKER_04: And like that's really cool.
55:26
SPEAKER_04: And also a driving factor towards, you know, for young kids and people that want to do this, like people are watching.
55:32
SPEAKER_04: And you have to, you have to know that, you know, don't let it stress you out.
55:35
SPEAKER_04: But like just know in the back of your mind, like what you're doing can be, you know, really effective, even if nobody's sitting there staring at you the whole day, you know.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: And reputation also, I've realized and I made it, I've made mistakes in my life.
55:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, everyone does.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, no one's perfect, even though they try to pretend they are.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, reputation is everything.
55:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember Bob Rizzo, my master teacher, like legend in the jazz community.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, apparently he was watching my steps classes for just weeks and weeks and weeks.
56:04
SPEAKER_01: And then he had conversations with Susie and Diane Grimet from Steps, the people who run steps, and Carol, uh Carol Palmgarten, and basically said, like, what's what's the deal with Derek?
56:14
SPEAKER_01: Like, is he good?
56:15
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Oh no, he's great to work with, always on time, never calls out sick, always professional, blah, blah.
56:19
SPEAKER_01: But like he had to check behind.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: And I I do the same thing.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, whenever I cast a dancer for something or work with someone, I'm like, what is this person like?
56:26
SPEAKER_01: Is this person dramatic?
56:26
SPEAKER_01: Is this person going to be late?
56:28
SPEAKER_01: I've had to fire multiple people, you know, in my life because of severe unprofessionality, and they don't realize it.
56:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and I am an ally for people making mistakes and me giving them multiple, multiple opportunities to change.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: And some people just don't want to take it because they can't, they, they, I don't know, it feels too intense for them, or like they're they have to be vulnerable to change.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's a hard place to be for some.
56:50
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, reputation has saved me, and I can't even tell you how much it saved me.
56:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, even when I got like, I got raked over the coals by uh, you know, a studio owner, it was from an anonymous email, and this person just went on saying I was unsupportive of the dancers and that I was talking to them, like talking down to them, and that I body shamed someone.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, really?
57:10
SPEAKER_01: Me, me?
57:11
SPEAKER_01: Take a look at all my assistants, take a look at all the dancers I've used.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: I've never body shamed anyone, I've never cast based on race, gender, height, sex.
57:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I literally, if you watch my projects, you will see how diverse it has always been before Black Lives Matter, before woke, before me too.
57:26
SPEAKER_01: Like I already did that.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: That was just who I was because that's how I grew up.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
57:30
SPEAKER_01: Like all my teachers were black.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: I I my best friends are black.
57:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have like that thing that, like, you know what I mean, how everyone boxes stuff in.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: What the person was saying was clearly not true.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: But that's where reputation comes in, is when you do get attacked, because we all get attacked, your reputation will save you because they're like, oh, no, no, no.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: He's been teaching for ba-pa-pa, or he's been doing this, but no, he's great to work with.
57:54
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
57:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's gonna be hard to find like someone who really truly believes like I'm awful.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
58:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, really?
58:01
SPEAKER_01: I talk about like hearts and unicorns and rainbows in class.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm not an awful person.
58:05
SPEAKER_01: But when the dancer who I body shamed was at the new event and she goes, You didn't body shame me.
58:11
SPEAKER_01: She goes, What?
58:11
SPEAKER_01: She goes, My parents and teachers or studio owners never ever sent that email.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: Like that is that's a complete fabrication.
58:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: So it came full circle.
58:19
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, wow, yeah.
58:20
SPEAKER_01: There's always people coming for you.
58:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think that reputation is everything.
58:23
SPEAKER_01: And I've watched other convention teachers, faculty members, you know, Brahma Dance Center, Millennium Steps.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: I've watched people come into class high to come teach.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: I've watched them make up the corn uh make up the choreography in the corner while the students are warming themselves up.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: I've watched people just call out five minutes before class.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: I've watched people who make up choreography right on the spot.
58:45
SPEAKER_01: I've watched people who don't even care enough about their own warm-up where they have others teach it and aren't aren't even in the room watching.
58:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've seen like horrible, horrible things, horrible things in this industry.
58:55
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I just never want to be that person.
58:57
SPEAKER_01: I respect dance and my position in dance way too much for that.
59:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: Me too.
59:03
SPEAKER_03: I've seen some things, you know, taking class.
59:06
SPEAKER_03: You you moved to New York City.
59:07
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you grew up there, but like, and like Leslie and I both, we moved to New York City with a dream, and we see these iconic studios, and we're it's finally like our opportunity to take the classes and train here regularly.
59:19
SPEAKER_03: And then you start to see what it's really like and how some people approach the class, mainly like you know, how some teachers approach class, and it's it and and you and then you've you weed out, and it's trial and error.
59:33
SPEAKER_03: You you weed out the environments that you love and the environments that feel a little toxic and feel unnecessary, and why am I giving you 20 of my dollars for you to not care?
59:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
59:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:44
SPEAKER_03: And mean to barely get a moment or something.
59:54
SPEAKER_04: I get, I get that there's you you have your people.
59:57
SPEAKER_04: Of course you do.
59:58
SPEAKER_04: Everybody does.
59:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
59:59
SPEAKER_04: But you know, it doesn't mean you can't recognize the new person or, you know, compliment somebody.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, I have I've been injured for the past a million years, so I haven't taken class in a very long time.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_04: But even just looking like six years, it's I can finally jump.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_04: So I'm very grateful.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_04: Um so maybe I'll come take your class.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_04: But you know, even just looking at social media and seeing the way that classes have evolved and the way that BDC and Perry Dance and all of them, it's like, oh, this is a very different world from when I moved here 14 years ago.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_04: And it's a very different world from when you grew up at the OG, you know, staples of the dance community in New York.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_04: So I think, you know, you're such an inspiration and an interesting uh perspective for us to hear because like you really have lived through so many iterations of the dance community here.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_04: And also across the country now that you've you've been teaching, you know, for conventions in different again, you you taught at Dance Olympus, which doesn't even exist anymore, and now Revel, which is one of the bigger names, you know, and one of the more well-respected names in the convention industry.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_04: But before we wrap up, I really want to know, you mentioned this a little bit earlier.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_04: And I want to know how you changed your perspective or how your perspective was changed about the competitive dance industry, because it has evolved, you know, in your time as a dancer into what it is now.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_04: And if you, you know, you started out back then thinking art shouldn't be judged and art shouldn't compete to now working for a company that, you know, has a competition attached.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_04: So I'd love to know sort of how how that changed for you.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, when they contacted me, like I literally had stepped away.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_01: I was just talking with Christian, one of the um creators and owners, and he was saying we got you out of the convention darkness.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_01: Cause like I literally stepped away from the convention world because I was just like, it felt toxic.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_01: And then when my agent like proposed it to me, they were like, no, this is gonna be like more like family-oriented, and it's a smaller one to begin.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, now it's huge, but like it was smaller to begin.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: It was small at first.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was, yeah.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: But they, I mean, they're amazing at what they do, so they took it to the heights that yeah, they blew it up.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably gonna be one of the biggest ones of all time in the next like five years, you know what I mean?
1:02:04
SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna take down the ones that are that really shouldn't be existing anymore, to be honest.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: But that's a whole nother podcast.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I felt like the family vibe there, you know what I mean, like right from the get-go.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's had its like ups and downs, like, you know, like any business does.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but for the most part, I felt like it was it was supportive of the learning rather than just the product, if that made sense.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_01: So like I feel like everyone who's on Revel, while they might not be like the biggest names, because we did start off with some like really, really big, like, you know, popular names, but it's kind of shifted and changed.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm, I know I've been in the industry a long time, but I'm not like a big name.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_01: Like there are a lot of, there are millions of dancers who have absolutely no idea who I am.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: And like I kind of prefer that.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_01: I feel like most of the time when I've stepped towards for fame, I kind of like to take two steps backwards because I it doesn't feel right.
1:02:58
SPEAKER_01: It just feels like it's, I don't know.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: You get to that like success place and then you're like, oh, this is not how I want to feel.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what I mean?
1:03:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's not I'm running away from success.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: I've had a lot of success, but it's not a place that feels good.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: It's it always feels weird to me.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: I feel like now the kids are just at a disadvantage in some ways, only because the scoring system has changed and it's not rebel, it's all across the board.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: Is when I first started judging, you know, like 28 years ago, it was gold, sorry, bronze, silver, and gold.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: Bronze was 70 to 79, you know, silver was 80 to 89, and then 90 to 99, there was no 100, was gold.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: And that was your top.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_01: So we had 30 points to score three awards.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_01: And then you wept when you got some studios.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: And people were excited to get the 70 points.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_01: Because if you scored lower than that, you just didn't place.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_01: You got like you didn't get participation.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: There was none of that nonsense.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: That needs to go away because you shouldn't get an award for just being there.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's that's ridiculous.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_01: That's like getting a grade in school for showing up.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: You have to be there.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what you chose to do.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's you don't get an award for coming.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_01: That's weird.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: But now it's six awards from 85 to 100.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: So, like, that for me sounds like we cut the scoring system in half and then added three more awards.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, how is it like, and I've I've talked to multiple convention people about that.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_01: I was like, how did this happen?
1:04:25
SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't think anyone really knows, but they all follow the same thing, which is right, it's fine, it's great, but it doesn't, it sometimes feels like in a way, like we should be a little bit more honest.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, think about it.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: If everyone in school, like in math, got 85 or higher, no one would even try anymore.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: Like you just know you're gonna do well.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_01: You almost have to know in life that you might be close to failure.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: And that time when you're closest to failure is your time to really make the changes in your life to redefine what can be success or how to be successful or to get the tools to be successful.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: So when you're always presented as a winner, I am just not good at this.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
1:05:05
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_04: We always talk about, I think it's a dance thing to talk about math as the comparison because math is cut and dry, whereas dance is not.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_04: But like I I consistently got C's and D's in math.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_04: I am not good at math.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_04: And yes, I had to try.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_04: And I had, I, but no, like, was I disappointed when I got a D?
1:05:25
SPEAKER_04: No, I passed.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_04: Goodbye.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_04: I'm done.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_04: I'm not good at this, but I at least got to the point where I passed.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_04: And I think dance, yeah, we're not willing, we're not willing anymore to tell anybody, here's your 79.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_04: That that's the best you could do.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_04: And yes, please keep trying.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_04: But I don't know how much how sad you can really be when you're just not good at it.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_04: Like, do something else.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_01: But it's also weird because like everyone agrees from a human perspective that like failure or mistakes or falling down or falling backwards, we all know that leads to what.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: Whatever success you're at now.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: But then it doesn't translate into awarding.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing with like the Oscars, the Emmys.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, nothing we're saying here is against like a specific industry.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: It's done everywhere.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just like we're so afraid to admit failure because failure for anyone is embarrassing.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_01: It's vulnerable.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:06:19
SPEAKER_01: It's the reason why like all the kids are being molecoddled now is because no parent wants to be seen as a failure.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: No teacher wants to be seen as a failure.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_01: No studio owner, no anyone wants to be seen as a failure.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:06:31
SPEAKER_01: But in reality, when you fail, like literally the path to success is being laid out for you.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_01: You just have to work harder or concentrate or find a different path.
1:06:41
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_04: And like nobody is saying, like, don't love dance.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_04: You could be terrible at it and love it.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_04: That doesn't mean you need to put yourself in the position of being graded on it.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_04: There's still plenty of places you can go and dance.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: Think about how many terrible dances are on TikTok and they love it and they have millions of views.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's great.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_01: And they're terrible some of them.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_01: Some of them are so bad, but they're doing really well at it.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, go for it.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: Do it.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_01: But don't like, don't be afraid when the failure comes because like it's gonna, I don't know.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's the it's the ignition for your success.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_03: It's it's really interesting to hear your perspective on the competition world and especially, you know, all your experiences in it.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_03: And it has changed.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_03: The industry has very much changed, and even for me as someone who grew up eat, sleep, breathe, competitive dancer, and how and then when it was my time to sit on the other side of the table and see how much the industry has changed.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_03: It and we talk about it all the time on the podcast.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_03: Like we sound like broken records and like oldies over here, but like to be honest, like we have to talk about it because I I don't think that a lot of parents who are new to this industry realize what it was, and I don't think that kids understand.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_03: And I think that there are the teachers that wish it were like it used to be, but then there's the ones that can't handle that either.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_03: And it and you know, we're leaning more in that direction of pleasing the the new generation of teachers who don't know any different, and then all of the old generation of teachers who are like, can we please bring back gold, silver, bronze?
1:08:17
SPEAKER_03: The businesses are too afraid to to actually move forward in that direction and take that risk because we're so used to this new evolution of the competition world and how how booming it is and how much it's grown as well.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: Because it wasn't when when you were teaching at Dance Olympus and when you were judging at headliners, those were like it was a hand fit that was it competitions that existed back then, you know?
1:08:40
SPEAKER_01: So like I think there were like, yeah, there were like, I think there was something like I did mailings to all of them because I mean I did it all the time.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_01: I think it was like under a hundred and now it's over four hundred.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_04: It's you know what I mean.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_01: Like so it's oh, it's new ones popping up every year.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_04: It is.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_04: And that's why, you know, I luckily I'm on a good one, thank goodness.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm not putting it away.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_04: I think Courtney, you're exactly right that I think in any industry, you know, you're gonna have people who appreciate the past and people who want to make sure that we honor our elders and the people who came before us.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_04: And and there's gonna be people who have no idea, you know, it's like I don't know anything about the elders of basket weaving, but they're there, they're important.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_04: I should learn about it if I care about this art form.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_04: And that's, you know, that's why I think it's so important to have people like Derek On who lived it, who experienced it, who are now still in the industry as it is currently, but have the experience of the past to make sure that full circle comes around.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_04: So like you mentioned Frank Hatchett when you teach.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_04: You mentioned Sheila Barker.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_04: Like these names have to keep living.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, your 21-year-old teacher now in 2023, that who's she mentioning?
1:09:45
SPEAKER_04: Hopefully she's mentioning you.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_04: But like, you know, there there's has to be the repetition of these historical people in the way it was.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, we're never going to be able to even pull the good things from that.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_04: Like, yes, moving forward is important and evolving and whatever, but like it has to come from somewhere.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_01: And I also want to share one thing just before like you guys have to go.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_01: So I recently got engaged and my partner.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know, I know.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: And my partner came to Cleveland Rebel where Courtney was at as well.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_01: And he's from Venezuela, and in Venezuela, like men dancing is just like not a thing.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_01: And so he always loved music and loved dancing, like when he was growing up, but was never able to pursue it just because of the culture and stuff.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: And so when we first met, like we just really got to love each other as just people, as just two human beings, just connecting in a way that I've never connected with anyone in my life.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_01: And then we started dating in October and then April for my birthday weekend, I we wanted to spend it together, obviously.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_01: And so he flew to a revel and he had never seen me teach before, never seen a dance convention before.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: By the end of that weekend, watching people's classes and watching people teach and watching the dancers and watching me teach, he was hysterical crying on the plane ride home, like literally hysterical crying, saying, Like, I like I, you know, I wanted to do this as a kid.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_01: My parents didn't support me doing it.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a thing to do.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: Now he takes like three, four, sometimes five dance classes a week since April, since that time.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_01: The next week he went into regulatone classes.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: He takes class all the time.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: And this happened because he literally just saw a light.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:11:16
SPEAKER_01: Like he saw like a light, whether it was me, the kids, the event, whatever it was.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: It lit him up inside and changed his entire course of life.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: And now, like, he's so much happier.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_01: Not that he was sad before, but it was like he found like one of his like purposes in life.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's the beauty of trying new things and just trying to dance in general, is because it opens your emotions up to just experiencing different things.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people grow up in this world not experiencing their passion or even a portion of it.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is so necessary for human beings to do that.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_01: And so I just want to share that because it's like his seeing him now become a dancer.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_01: And I vowed to like never date a dancer again ever.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm dating a dancer.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
1:12:01
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, I just created another dancer.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_01: And he's so passionate.
1:12:05
SPEAKER_01: He's so full out.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_01: He's honestly, and I know I feel bad for the kids now when I say this, but like, he's more full out than any kid I have ever taught.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm serious.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, he is so full out in these videos, and he rehearses before the video gets filmed.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_01: So, like, they teach it on Tuesday and Friday, Thursday night, he has a whole rehearsal with himself or his best friend Maria to go over the choreography so they get the good video.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: I was like, that's amazing.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_01: And he's in his 30s.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: He's in his 30s, and that's what he's doing just for fun.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: I was like, work.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_04: I love that so much.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's so inspiring.
1:12:39
SPEAKER_04: That's so inspiring.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_04: And again, with like what I said before, love it.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_04: That doesn't mean you have to put it forward to be judged, to love it.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_04: Go love it.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_04: Like, like your like your fiance.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_04: Like that's amazing.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_03: I love hearing that story.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so great.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: So inspiring.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: So good.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_03: Derek, I know that there's so much more we could chat around uh chat about on this chat, but time is out.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: We didn't even chat about him.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_03: Sad about it.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: But maybe we'll have to get you I know.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_03: But we'll have to get you back on again.
1:13:09
SPEAKER_03: And part two of Derek Mitchell.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_03: Coming in a few seasons from now to hear about the second half of his dance journey.
1:13:18
SPEAKER_03: But Derek, you are such an inspiration to me and to so many dancers out there in the world and other educators and other teachers.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: And thank you for sharing your passion on the podcast and with our dance world.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_03: We're so grateful for you.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for watching.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_03: Hearts and unicorns.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_03: Hearts, unicorns, and rainbows.
1:13:37
SPEAKER_03: And to lead us out on this fabulous chat with Derek Mitchell, we would love for you to just share one final thoughts.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_03: It can be chatting to the dancers out there, parents out there, educators, whoever you'd like to speak to in this beautiful dance world.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh final little bit of advice, guidance from Derek Mitchell.
1:13:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that the easiest thing to share is if you're I read this in like a couple of different like self-development and self-help books, that if you have a dream, it's meant for you to achieve.
1:14:11
SPEAKER_01: And so whatever that dream is, whether it be arts related, whether it be tech related, whether it just be to raise a family, you know what I mean?
1:14:18
SPEAKER_01: Like all of these things.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_01: If that's your dream, but we have to be careful, it's the gut.
1:14:23
SPEAKER_01: It's what your gut is telling you, like what you feel gravitated towards, you gotta pursue it.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't, you're gonna try to live it through other people, you're gonna try to make up for it, you're gonna try to step outside of what you believe to achieve something else.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_01: Like I truly believe if you dream something, you're meant to achieve it.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_01: And you have to do everything you can, even if it means going against everything you know to achieve it.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: And I watch so many people held back from not pursuing their dreams and then living the rest of their lives sad that they never gave it that shot.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_01: And it's never too late.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_01: It's literally never too late.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_01: I this is the final thing I'll say is like there's a self-help book called You Can Heal Your Life.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_01: It's by Louise Hay.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_01: And she's one of the most self one of the most celebrated like self-help books, uh b uh authors.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_01: And the first 45 years of her life, she was like an attorney.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_01: And she just felt like she was in the wrong path.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, the next half of her life was the most celebrated self-help author probably of all time.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she sold hundreds of millions of copies in all these languages, and she found her real purpose.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_01: And our purpose is really, really important that we I live my purpose every day.
1:15:35
SPEAKER_01: I know I do.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_01: I know even with all the, you know, backlash that you can get, the resistance you can get, the hate you can get, whatever it is, like you know when you're living your purpose.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_01: And you have to, you have to live that dream, no matter how difficult it is to get to that top.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_01: And even if you never get there, you still have to live that dream.
1:15:56
SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed our latest spotlight feature episode featuring Derek Mitchell.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow him on social media.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_03: You can find him on Instagram at Derek Mitchell G.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
1:16:15
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1:16:21
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1:16:30
SPEAKER_04: Join now at Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_03: Are you looking for even more personalized, in-depth feedback from your standard judges' critiques that you've been receiving at competition this season?
1:16:44
SPEAKER_03: Want to really know how to take your dance to the next level?
1:16:46
SPEAKER_03: Then check out our service, IDA's online judges critiques, where you will receive up to 10 to 15 minutes of post-critique additional feedback.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_03: You can even request a judge that specializes in your submitted dance genre, and they will go back through your routine from beginning to end and pause the video to elaborate even more on those specific corruptions.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_03: Send us your video from an in-studio rehearsal or your latest competition stage performance, and let our judges help you prep before your next event.
1:17:15
SPEAKER_03: Critiques start at only$35 on our website.
1:17:18
SPEAKER_03: Submit your dance now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash online critiques.
1:17:24
SPEAKER_04: Season four is going strong with a few more great episodes coming your way.
1:17:28
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned for appropriateness and choreography, how to avoid burnout, and an episode all about die hard dance dads.
1:17:35
SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for tuning in to Making the Impact week after week.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week.
1:17:40
SPEAKER_03: Until then, keep dancing.