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Sarah Boisvert · Calm Under Fire

• Col. John Boggs: Well, welcome back to Calm Under Fire. I'm Colonel John Boggs. I'm the president of Fortitude Consulting. And Fortitude Consulting is an executive leadership development firm and coaching firm. So today we have Sarah Boisvert. And she has spent more than three decades working at the intersection of advanced technology and workforce development from bringing high tech products to market. to helping build the next generation of skilled professionals. As founder of the New Collar Network, she focuses on preparing people for roles that didn't exist a generation ago through hands-on training and industry-recognized credentials. Her work sits at the center of the growing challenge for leaders, how to build capable teams in a world where the skills are constantly evolving. Today, We're talking about leadership under pressure when the future of the workforce isn't fully defined. So Sarah, thank you very much for being here today. Sarah Boisvert: Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Col. John Boggs: Absolutely. Well, Sarah, do you mind if we go ahead and get ourselves started? Sarah Boisvert: No time like now. Col. John Boggs: Perfect, perfect. Sarah, you spent decades bridging technology and workforce development. When did you first see the gap forming between what companies need and what people are trained to do? Sarah Boisvert: Well, really I saw it 30 years ago in my laser manufacturing company. You know, it was a time when more and more people were being encouraged to go to college and we were dropping the idea of going into the trades and trying to find a CNC machinist in my company. I owned a laser manufacturing company. We built the laser for lasik eye surgery and also laser machine tools. And even then I was starting to see fewer options. And so we had an internal training program in our company because it was so hard to find people. And I was working in a laser area that was quite new. And, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: you know, those training programs just didn't exist. But, you know, when I was a kid, you in high school made a choice. You were either on the college prep track or you were on the VOTEC track, which is why I don't know how to sew, because I didn't have to take home ec. Thank God my grandmother taught me to cook. you know, And it all changed. And as you know, we now have a huge need in manufacturing, but in many fields. Electricians, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: plumbers, and in my field, people who can run CNC machines, who can do CAD design. And I particularly love this term new color that was coined by Sinever Mehdi, the former CEO of IBM. because I thought Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: it so embodies what has happened to those jobs in the trades, right? Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: It's no longer an analog machine that you're using in the CNC shop. You're using digital capabilities and you have to have digital skills. And Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: then also that the advent of 3D printing and others in manufacturing. has really changed a lot of what goes on in manufacturing. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Well, how has that gap? What kind of pressure does that put on a leader today to have that kind of a gap? Sarah Boisvert: Yeah, it's really challenging. And you know, I think a lot of companies have come to the conclusion that since it's so hard to find people in the trades that they end up hiring people that they can train internally. And it means that we need people who can take on the new tools. like 3D printing. even if you can find a CNC machinist, there's not Joe in the back of the building who's been there and been doing CNC machining for 30 years in the additive space. And so it's really hard to make those kind of quantum leaps for people and getting them. excited about things like 3D printing is not that hard. know, all the kids are excited, which is why I start with 3D printing. I'm a laser girl. But 3D printing captures people's imaginations. And I think, you know, when we get them in the lab, they'll say, I want to make this or that. And I'll say, well, you know, you can't do that with 3D printing. You know, we're going to have to use the laser cutter. And they so want to have that hands-on because we have been making things. We have been creating ideas, know, taking their ideas to reality. Col. John Boggs: You're preparing people for jobs that didn't exist. So Sarah Boisvert: Mm-hmm. Col. John Boggs: what does leadership look like when there's no clear path or there's no precedent? mean, they didn't exist. Sarah Boisvert: Yeah, it's, you know, I come from a heritage of the Fab Labs at MIT. And MIT teaches in a way that I have never met an MIT graduate who could not solve problems. And I think that more and more leadership has to center around problem solving. For the reasons I said before, I these machines are new. You haven't got anybody to go to who's going to help you or give you the answer. And so you have to be able to figure out what went wrong and how do I fix this. And so I think that leadership has to be less about telling people what to do, but much more about giving them opportunity to solve problems. In addition to all the other things I do, I teach lean leadership. And so having had a lean factory, I saw that I could apply lean principles that were developed by Toyota and were written in that famous book, The Toyota Way. And I realized I could apply that to every function in my company. So to my sales people and to my marketing people in my accounting department. And I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And I rather than just complain about the inefficiencies in my city, I proposed to the city and the county and to Los Alamos County that we train their managers. And you can't teach lean in six weeks, which is how long my course is, but you can get people started on Quick Kaizen. And Quick Kaizen is a methodology for engaging your people and getting your people to become problem solvers, not just waiting. for the boss to say, there's a problem. Because these are the people in the trenches. Literally, I I've had the people who take care of the snowplows and the managers who manage the workers for the city parks. You're so far removed when you're the manager. You're not down there with them in the trenches. And it's been really gratifying. And for the city and the counties, it's great cost savings. When you get people in there and they start solving problems and they start looking at, gee, you know, I've been doing this repetitive thing for five years and, you know, it's got tons of mistakes in it because, and this is a true story from the accounting with the finance department, that they were manually Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: entering something. And finally, the manager went and talked to the people. And they're like, yeah, this is an awful job, entering all the take-in of cash. And Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: they ended up using optical character recognition and being able to turn it into a digital process. And Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: I want to say they saved like $300,000 is what I remember. And because now it didn't take all those people manually, right? Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: It went down from a larger number of workers to a smaller group. And then those people could work on things that were more gratifying than typing in numbers. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: so I think that, you know, if we can train people that way when they come to work for us, if we can get people that kind of training where they're wanting to participate, then no matter what comes down the pike, we're Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: able to adapt and look at it and say, well, here's an opportunity for me to have impact. Col. John Boggs: Okay, do you have? I mean, there's almost two sides to this. There's a leadership side. Sarah Boisvert: Mm-hmm. Col. John Boggs: mean, jobs that didn't exist and things are unfolding. But before I go there, let me go to the other side, to the people who they would be hiring. Sarah Boisvert: Mm-hmm. Col. John Boggs: What's the degree of difficulty for you to bring in the new employee, the person who's learning these new skills? Tell me, can you talk a little bit about the difficulties of bringing those people in? Sarah Boisvert: Well, I think, you know, because I had my own programs and it was a little bit easier for me and for here in Santa Fe in my Fab Lab, I'm able to bring in people that I've trained. And so we're opening our second lab this afternoon. Col. John Boggs: congratulations. Sarah Boisvert: Thanks. And it is in the New Mexico Innovation Hub. here and I wanted it to be separate from our lab that is in the Higher Education Center because I want people to be around real businesses. I want them to be around startups. And so we're working with the state of New Mexico on bringing in an apprenticeship program. I have a federal USDOL. 3D printing technician, I have to think of the name of it, 3D printing technician registered apprenticeship. And we're looking at bringing that into the state. And I think that whether this will work or not, I'm not sure, but the Trump administration is really behind apprenticeships, which I think is a great thing. worry that they are, apprenticeships fell out of favor for good reasons. Like, work was daunting. We now have a whole cottage industry of what are called, what should they call them? I won't think of the word, but we have a whole cottage industry of people who help employers just be able to read the government lingo and figure out how you do it. It took me two years to get my apprenticeship. And it shouldn't take that long. And then you have all this paperwork to do. But I'm hoping that the new administration is going to streamline. They're talking about streamlining the process. And if they can do that, now you're giving employers a way to almost test drive with an employee. It's not inexpensive for the employer. In USDOL, you have to pay two-thirds of the starting salary while the person is in the training program, and you have to pay for the training. I was fortunate because I owned both sides of the equation. I had the nonprofit for our training programs, and then I had our little contract manufacturing group where we give people the experience with local employers. But for an employer, you're having to pay this salary for somebody who can't do anything for a while. The people who go through our three-month full-time boot camp go into apprenticeship programs and are up to speed at about a quarter of the time that it takes somebody off the street. And our people get jobs at Los Alamos. We had an intern from a few years ago who just got a job at Rivian. really gives them, which is why I want the second lab to focus on the hands-on training with real customers, is that that's a difficulty. you know, when you're in an academic setting, it's like, oh, we'll do it next week, right? You can't do that when you've got a customer waiting for you and who wants something yesterday and needs for it Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: to work and meets back. And I think that's a very important part of leadership is in this day and age, because we don't have the long-term vocational trainings that we used to have. of partnering with our states and with the feds on apprenticeships. And the states are getting quite a lot of funding in that area. Col. John Boggs: Bye. Sarah Boisvert: And you have to, I wish they would do a little more help for the employers because you can't just have somebody come in and know what they're doing. You have to also train them. But it's, I think a valuable route for both the employer and the student because it's different than, know, internships are, you know, you go some summer, you're, you know, a high school senior and you go for the summer Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: and who knows what's going to happen. A true apprenticeship is a contract between the employer and the employee that, on you will stay. mean, you're putting the money in so that you're going to stay and work for them. The retention Col. John Boggs: Yes. Sarah Boisvert: rate is in the high 90th percentiles. So I haven't looked recently, but it's usually up around 95%, 96%. And I think it's a really great way to indoctrinate people in our culture, you know, to get them to kind of become part of our team and a way to show how we lead people. I also think going back to lean, my favorite thing in leadership is that, you know, I'm hearing so much about the Gen Z kids and, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: they don't want to do anything and they, you know, they don't know what to do when they sit there and don't do anything if you don't explicitly tell them. But a lot of that, I think, can be ameliorated by making them part of that process because those kids are always talking about how they want to contribute. Well, let's let them contribute, right? And Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Sarah Boisvert: here's a, and I do it with our students in the lab in our training programs where I'll say, well, I'll come in and, you know, instead of the 3D printer printing things like my earrings, There's spaghetti coming out of the printer. There's a whole pile of spaghetti. And I'll get them to say, well, why do you think that happened? What do you think went wrong? And at the beginning, think they look at it and think I'm trying to blame them. But they Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: learn that I try and see where we can implement their ideas. And they have ideas that I never would have thought of. The problem with the printer printing spaghetti was that it was, that the student, this was my lab manager, the students were not following the process. So they were skipping steps. And if it were me, I probably would have, you know, put it all on a tablet and set the tablet beside the printer. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: And instead he 3D printed the sign and glued it onto the door of the printer and all the steps were 3D printed. And I thought, well, that was way more fun than I was gonna do. I was gonna do something way more boring. And then he was so proud of it. He was like, wow, look what I did. And I think it's a great example of how the younger generation wants to participate, you know, they want to do something and we can't always use their ideas. I'll never be able to move where the sink is in my lab. I mean, that's where it is and it's going to stay there. And they can complain about it all they want, but you know, it's, we have to deal with constraints. There's a wonderful book called A Beautiful Constraint and we have to deal with constraints and how do we innovate? when we have constraints. And so I think the leadership has to be more people-centric. That was a long answer. Col. John Boggs: that was a great answer. That was great answer. when leaders, know, everybody's building the team, the team, the team. So what should a leader be looking for now when they're building their team? Sarah Boisvert: in terms of the new employees. Col. John Boggs: In terms of the new employees coming in with these new skills to fill these jobs that didn't exist. Sarah Boisvert: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, 2017, interviewed 200 employers on what were the skills they needed for operators and technicians. We had enough engineers, so I didn't go there. And the number one skill they said they wanted was problem solving. And I think that a lot of the way we... you know, write our job descriptions and things like that. I mean, I think it's important for us to know what skills people have. And I help my class. Actually, I don't teach the 3D printing boot camp, but I teach one morning of working with them on what skills did they learn. And of course, problem solving being a big one in the way that we teach. And... We have no tasks. They have to identify a problem and then iterate a design to solve the problem. And I don't care what it is. It can be on the playground or in sports or in their kitchen. And we have people who come to us who are working. And so it might be their CNC lab. And so I think that when we really focus on attitude, you know, and problem-solving skills. I was recently at the Rapid Conference in Boston and Max Lebowski, who is the CEO of Formlabs, I think now their valuation is about two billion. He actually came out of the lab where all of our fab labs originated, so we've known. Max a long time. And Max said a very interesting thing. He said that he, I'm going start passing this on to our students. He said, you know, I really don't look so much at their resumes. Okay, if it's an engineer, I've got an undergrad degree from MIT. or wherever, or if it's a technician, I've got an AA degree, or I've got a new color certificate. And he said, but what I really want to see is portfolios. And he said, I want to see, not just the one you did as your capstone project in your senior year, I want to see portfolios of the stuff you do on the weekend. I want to see. what you do with your friends. You know, I want to see what kinds of ideas you're having. And I think that, you know, he's thinking of it also from an innovation standpoint, are these people Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: innovators, but also in terms of the problem solving. You I had a problem, I couldn't do X, and I had to find a way to make that work. And I thought that was... really good information for young people today who are applying for jobs. I Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: think that, you know, fortunately we work in a field where AI is not going to take over anytime soon. I have a robot Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: dog who is coming as the guest of honor for our opening of the new lab this afternoon. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: We're all praying he's going to work, you know, because you never know. And he's connected to Wi-Fi. And if the Wi-Fi is down, which it often is in New Mexico, we don't know if he's going to be there. They certainly don't fix themselves. We still need people to repair the robots. That Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: will come someday, but it's not here yet. Somebody has to go in there with a screwdriver and a wrench. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: And so I think that... you know, at those problem-solving skills, looking at attitude, looking at people's, you know, excitement for the future of work and wanting to be a part of that is how we have to hire. Col. John Boggs: technology is advancing so quickly. Sarah Boisvert: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: and people, but people, they advance a little bit slower. They don't advance at the same pace. Where do leaders misjudge that gap? Do they look for more than they're capable of or capable of at the moment? It's not that they're not advancing, it's just the pace is different. Sarah Boisvert: It is different, but I think now we have so many more digital natives. You know, I got my first Apple II in 1986, so I've been in the digital world for a very long time. But, you know, these kids are born with it, right? I mean, the parents are giving... tablets as babies. And I think that gap is actually shrinking from my generation. Although, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: you you look at it now and everybody has a smartphone, pretty much. And I also think that the, you know, the changes are so evident when we work a little bit with K through 12. We train the teachers. So we'll train the teachers of how to teach ready printing in the classroom. And the interesting thing is when they come to the first class, we'll try to figure out where are they in their journey. And I can't tell you how many of them will say, well, I didn't want to get the printer out of the box. But I came in one day and one of the kids had gotten it out of the box and was 3D printing. And when we're stuck, I have this other kid and he's the one who fixes the printers. And it's really interesting. And these are not teachers as old as me. I mean, these are teachers Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: who are typically, you know, in their 30s and 40s, but they were not trained on these kinds of technologies and the kids teach themselves. What do they do? They go Col. John Boggs: Well... Sarah Boisvert: onto YouTube, right? And they watch all these videos and by the time they're done, they can run a machine. And so I do think it's a very different world coming up. I think the younger people coming up, they don't want to do what I would do, which is to go take a course. They watch a YouTube video and then they're Col. John Boggs: They want to go figure it out. Okay, so that gap, that my perceived gap is really not much at all. Sarah Boisvert: It's shrinking, yeah, it's really shrinking. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Sarah Boisvert: It's really very interesting. The problem with it, of searching on the internet, is as you and I know, there's so much wrong information. You know, some guy in his garage on a YouTube video who is telling you how to run the printer or what to do in the case of a problem. And so in the last, I guess, two and a half years, I've worked on developing a large language model that can be a tutor on your shoulder. So, and most of AI searches the internet and you have to train the program to get, you know, the right answers. But ours doesn't search the internet. It searches my database. So my database is accurate. And it has in it the, let's see, has the manuals of 2,500 different printers. It has material data sheets of 4,500 different materials. It has the questions from our students in our classes over the last 10 years. It has all of our teaching materials. It has all the videos that we've developed. It has technical papers from people who I know are good. And there's about 120 billion data points in it. We also worked hard at it being accurate and not hallucinating. And I did a test against chat. And chat was about 80 % accurate, but the 20 % that was wrong was so fundamentally wrong it would really confuse a student. Like asking Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Sarah Boisvert: you to look for support to do something with your supports on a type of 3D printer that has no supports. And you know, the poor person will be out there, where are my supports? Col. John Boggs: Ahem. Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: And ours was about 97 % accurate and I was able to We have our experts, our AI experts, have it request that you rephrase the question if it couldn't answer it. What I want it to do next is to take those questions and divert it to a human who can answer the question on that few percent where it doesn't know and then we can feed that data back into the database. Yeah. know, searching the internet and it is sometimes frustrating for me when the kids come back to me and say, well, I found this video over here. And I think, no, not that guy, you know. Okay. Provide something if we can provide tools for the students and for our workers and not discount them, you know, not say don't. use a tool, but use a tool that we trust and that is accurate. Col. John Boggs: Well, Sarah, has this work taught you about leading in the future, the uncertain environments, rapidly changing environment? What has this taught you? Sarah Boisvert: Well, it's really taught me because we teach teachers and we teach leaders. We consult a lot in the field. It's really taught me that it requires a mindset change, that we really have to let go of ego. Clyde Christensen, no, Clyde, Clyde is someone else in the laser industry, Clyde Christensen from Harvard. A long time ago, I was at a meeting in Boston and he was interviewed by the innovation writer for the Boston Globe who said, what is the number one skill that a startup founder or CEO needs? And Clay said, humility. And I was really struck in another part of the conversation with Max from Formlabs when I was in Boston recently, because he was talking about why he does the work he does and his humility just came through. And I think when we implement project-based learning and we implement problem solving at the lowest levels of the hierarchy in the company, we have to be humble. We have to not feel like I know all the answers. you know, I think that it's important that we share that, you know, glory of finding some great answers. So my business partner who was Clad Christiansen, not Clay Christiansen, and the Lizard Company would say to me, wow, you we were just in this meeting and you just gave all this credit to, you know, our sales guy and I know how much you were part of that. And I said to him, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: I own the company, I don't need glory. You know, I Col. John Boggs: Ha ha. Sarah Boisvert: want him to learn what I did. I want him to learn how I guided him to the right answer and how I helped him get there. But I want him to feel like, wow, that really worked. And look, the president of the company is really behind me. And I think when you are trying to solve all the problems yourself and you think you're the only one that can do it and nobody else knows anything, but you really waste the capability of all the great people around you. And I think that the more that our our leaders, not just in companies, but in all organizations, can have less ego and put it aside in order to guide their people and have their people really make... My people always made me look good, right? Because I was the one Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: that hired them. And people loved my company and loved the work I do. because I want my people to shine and then that reflects back on me. Col. John Boggs: Well, that's a good teacher. When leaders are responsible for building the workforce of the future, What do they need to remember most? Sarah Boisvert: I think, like I said early on, that it's not just about a particular skill, you know, and I think a lot of technologists hire for particular skills, and I think we have to get away from that and really hire for problem solving, for the big picture, for being able to communicate, being able to Col. John Boggs: you Sarah Boisvert: be part of a team, being able to... really learn any skill and be a valuable contribution to the organization. Col. John Boggs: So for leaders out there who are thinking about how to build and develop their workforce, so what's coming next? What's the best way? Well, if you can, can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing and then how to reach you? How can they plug into you? Sarah Boisvert: Well, organization has a lot of layers. I'm thinking recently about adding to our website more information about the leadership work that I do. And so our website is newcolornetwork.com. And just as it's spelled, color, like your shirt. So instead of blue color, we're new color. and no dots or dashes or anything. I want to start sharing more about what the leaders have to do once they take these people that we've trained. And we have programs Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: in multiple cities, like El Paso and Youngstown, Ohio. And you know, I... I sometimes worry that we do all this good work, but then what happens once you unleash people into the workforce? So I've been thinking about adding the work we're doing on leadership to our website. And I think that the more that companies and organizations can become employee-centric and know, lean to me is all about people. You know, and people think of lean as being something that is about efficiency. And it's not about measuring how many, you know, keystrokes you've done or that you used your right hand instead of your left on the factory floor. It's really about the engagement of your people. And one of the most fascinating companies I've ever visited was an old jewelry company in Attleboro, Massachusetts that was a lean factory. And I went in and this guy was, before a stamping machine, it was all manual. And he had file Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: on one side of all the disks. And then he'd take one and he'd know, stamp it and then put it into this tray. And I thought to myself, I'd slit my wrist if that was my job. I'd lose my mind. I'd be so bored. And he turned around to our group and he had a huge smile and he said, I'm so happy you're here. We have won the Quick Kaizen competition twice last year at the company and I want to tell you about the innovations that I brought to this department and I'm thinking this guy is so engaged, he's so happy to be at work and what we want every day is for people to be happy to come to work. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that is amazing. Well, Sarah, thank you very much. And the website is newcollarnetwork.com. Is there an email address where they can get more information or how to plug into? Sarah Boisvert: On the home page, there Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Sarah Boisvert: is a place to request information and it will go directly Col. John Boggs: Perfect, Sarah Boisvert: to us. Col. John Boggs: Okay, all right folks, again, that's newcollarnetwork.com and you'll find the information there that you seek and I hope you're there, you go there and find it. Sarah, thank you so much for being here today. I greatly appreciate it and the future is bright. I'm gonna stick to that. Sarah Boisvert: Yes, the future is bright. Thank you so much. Col. John Boggs: Perfect. All right, hey folks, remember leadership is too important to get wrong. So please, if you've learned something from Sarah, reach out, go find her website and learn some more. And that's it for until the next time. That's it here, out here.