Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Coming Alive Again | Amayra Hamilton on Grief, Aging, Self-Love & Finding Home revisited

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Coming Alive Again | Amayra Hamilton on Grief, Aging, Self-Love & Finding Home revisited · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: With your hosts, Scott and Larray Wright.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: we're going to sit down with our good friend once again,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Amira Hamilton. Amira's been on the show before and she's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: about to go on an adventure, embark on a new adventure.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: chapter in her life. And we wanted to have another
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: sit-down discussion with her before she leaves. She's going to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: leave the country. So we want to take this opportunity
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to sit down and visit with her. And this is
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation. So we'd love you to just sit back, relax,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and enjoy this beautiful conversation with our good friend, Myra Hamilton.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today we're sitting in
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the home of one of our dear friends, Myra Hamilton.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: She's been on our show before, and we got the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: opportunity to make a trip down to her home here
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in Cornville, Arizona. And we came down here to pick
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: up what we call a singing wand set that my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: friend made. And she's moving out of the country and
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: can't take them with her, and they're just amazing. And
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we had to come down, but not just for that.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: We really wanted to come and see you because you're
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: going to be gone.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I will miss you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: We will miss you. We've had such a beautiful friendship
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: over the years, and it's just so meaningful. In fact,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: we've been sitting here visiting, and Scott said, if we
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: don't get started, we're not going to get the podcast done.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So I think that's so indicative of just how much
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: we love you and how easy the time flows when
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: we're with you.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: And you've been on before, so this is your second
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: appearance on the observatory. Yes, what an honor. And there's
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: lots of things that we want to talk about, but
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: some specific things. And we've been kind of bantering back
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and forth here as we've been kind of deciding what
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to say. And aging is one of the things that
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: we want to talk about. This is something that we've
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: been talking about actually quite a bit lately. And this
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: move you're making, you're going back to Holland where you're
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: from originally. And you've been, how long have you been
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: in the U.S. now?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I have been in the U.S.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: 29 years. 29 years.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: In the Verde Valley here.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And her and her husband Michael ran the beautiful...
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: retreat center I don't know if you call it a
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: retreat center it was Angel Valley and that's where we
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: were introduced to you by some of our good friends
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and in.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: The previous podcast we were talking about that quite extensively
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: that was lovely.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: And since the podcast you've written a book yes I've
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: written a book yes and we want to hear about
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: that process and how that feels to have that expression
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: now out in the world.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: That feels really good, because that book had been in
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: the making for many, many years. It is a book
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: about grief, and in the previous podcast, we did talk
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: about grief. It had to do, and it all started with,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: in 1999, my son passed away, my 28-year-old son, which
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: was the biggest.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Trauma, drama in my life has been. And he told
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: me after a few years, I heard him say, Mom,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: you have to do something with this experience of grieving.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: And so I started doing grief work with people, helping
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: others to go through grief. And I always had this
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: feeling kind of, you know, I want to give people
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: something that they can go back to because one of
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: the things with grief is that you can only do
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: so much. You can only handle so much. So whatever
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: you're doing in a session when you have somebody who is,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: let's say, helping you to handle it, There's only so
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: much you can handle. So I thought, what if I
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: put this on paper so that people can take that
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: home with them and then go back to it later? Well,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: all those many years I had, I was too busy
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: to sit down and write. Then I came to my
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: second episode of grief when my husband Michael died. So
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: I was too much in an emotional state myself that
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: I couldn't write. But then in 2023, shortly after we
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: did our previous podcast, I decided, okay, and now I'm
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: going to do it. The book is called Coming Alive Again,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: which has been very much the theme of when a
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: loved one dies, a part of you dies with them.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: And that has to come alive again, otherwise you will
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: leave yourself. And I have seen that happen. So the
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: book is focused on that coming alive again. And the
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: book is two parts focused. One part is explaining, talking
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: about grief. What is grief? How do you deal with it?
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: How long does it last? What do you expect? How
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: do you deal with a person who is in grief?
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: What do you do when you're in grief? What can
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: be helpful? So I call that the practical part of
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: the book. And half of the book is.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Communication with your loved ones in the afterworld. And that
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: is of the tools that I have been giving to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: people and of the tools that I have applied myself.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Communication with the other side has been my life help
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: to get through this. And in that communication, I have
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: been doing that in writing. I have made that part
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: of my grief sessions with almost every person that I
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: have ever done grief work with.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Connecting to their loved ones? Is that what you're saying?
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, connecting with their loved ones in writing. And the
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: difference between the way I have been giving it to people,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: and I have done that myself, and a lot of
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: suggestions that people do get in grief therapy, oftentimes people
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: are recommended to journal and to write to the person
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: who passed away.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: My.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: My technique, because it is a technique, is to have
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: them write back. However, since they can't write anymore, I
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: write it for them. So in this way, I have
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: been communicating with my son and I have been communicating
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: with my husband. So half of the book is about
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: communications that I have had with Both of them. And
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: that has been lifesavers, really.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: That's so beautiful.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to read it. That sounds amazing.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and some people may read it for the practical
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: part and some people may read it for the channeled
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: part because I call it channeled writing. Some people call
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: it automatic writing. I do not call it automatic writing
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: because automatic writing implies a little bit What happens to
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: some people that your hand starts writing by itself almost.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: You can't stop doing that. For most people it doesn't
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: quite work that way. And so people then think, oh,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I won't be able to do that. Yes, every person
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: can do this. But you have to get your mind
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: out of the way and you have to just be
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: willing to venture doing it.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. And, um, if, as our listeners are
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: hearing this, you can get the book on Amazon or
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: where is it available?
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: The book is on Amazon and, uh, I do have
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: a website. The website is comingaliveagain.com and you can also
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: find it under amirahamilton.com. Uh, and on the website you can.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Read about the book and, And get in touch with you.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Get in touch with you.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: We'll put all those links in the podcast.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be great.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, Myra, what a journey. It feels very... not complete,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: but it feels very whole for you to have written
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: now the book.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, it has given a feeling of being fulfilled. Finally, finally.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I love how nonchalantly you said in the beginning that
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: your son said to you that you needed to write
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: about this grief. This was after he was gone, obviously,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that this came through. And a lot of the people
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: who are listening to this are going to be saying, well,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense to me. Well, it doesn't need
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to make sense. as I look at the experiences that
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I've had, what I call channeling, a lot of times
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: for me it's with music. And where I find the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: channeling coming through with music is when I can quiet
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: my mind down and become still and find presence. That
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: space opens up where this lies in whatever way it appears.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Well, and the way that particular thing happened, that was
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: not so much in becoming quiet. That was actually, I
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: was talking with a friend about, actually about a move.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: And I have this kind of, you know, it's so
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: easy to let go of this beautiful house. It's kind
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: of amazing. And then I hear my son's voice in
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: my ear. As lively as if he was standing next
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: to me and I said, Mom, you have been able
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: to let go of me. This is just a house.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: And by the way, you have to talk about this.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: You have to share this with others. And it was
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: really as if he was standing.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's powerful.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: It was that clear and it was really his voice.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: And I was kind of, what?
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: What?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: That's really powerful.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: How did you process that then? I mean, once you
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: heard that, it was like, kind of, what did you
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: feel in your body right away in that moment?
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: What I felt in my body was kind of, my
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: heart was kind of, as if it was bursting open
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and I had this kind of, yeah, yeah, I need
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: to do this. Yes, I need to do this. And
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: at the time, I did work with people. I did
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: massages and I did counseling. I just had not brought
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: that grief part in. And so I had this kind of, yeah, actually, yes.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: So before I knew it, I had some people who
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: came with a grief story because as I have found
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: over the years, so many people have some piece of
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: unresolved grief in their life In that backpack.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: And so it started to happen very spontaneously that it
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: showed up.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: How long was it after he had passed that this happened?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Three years.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Three years after. Yeah.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: And looking back at it, that took a long time
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: when I, well, I always say, and that's also part
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: in the book, there is no time on grief.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: You cannot say, it takes so much time. It takes
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: whatever it takes. However, when I look back, the time
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: that it took for me to come to some kind
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: of balance after he died was much longer than the
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: time that it took until I found some kind of
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: a balance after Michael died. Now, that... can be part
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: of the relationship, but I also think in the first
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: place that all the work that I had done on
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: myself in those years after my son died have changed me.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: My son's death changed me forever. And so I think
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: that everything we do that we learn from can benefit
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: us if there is a new situation in our life
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: that may have similarity, but that in a sense deals
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: with similar issues.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: But it's never the same. It's never the same.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It's unique.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: It's unique, yes.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: There's not a structure we can say, This is the
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: way it's going.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: You cannot say, oh, I've dealt with one source, one
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: reason for grief, so now I have mastered it, like
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: I have a driver's license and I know how to
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: drive a car. Well, a little bit, but in a
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: new situation you still have to go through new layers
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: of grief.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Well, because the loss has its own aspect of what
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: it meant to you.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but also the circumstances are always different. That's why
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: in the book I have mentioned a whole list of
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: different types of grief, whether it's a parent or a
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: child or a partner. And the circumstances that that takes
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: you in can be completely different. For example, after my
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: son died, when I was... He was 28, so he
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: did not live with me anymore. So when I came
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: back to Sedona, it almost felt like in my everyday
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: life nothing had changed. And that felt so weird because
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: my whole world was upside down.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: But in my daily life, everything was normal. That felt schizophrenic. Mm-hmm. Now,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: when your partner dies, it's completely the opposite.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Right, because your day-to-day is so different.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Your day-to-day is so different. You're sitting alone for your meals.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Your bed is empty. So the circumstances are in each
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: situation different, and that was then in my situation.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Would you also say that the manner that they They
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: pass also if it's something super sudden, a car accident
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: or something like that relative to something drawn out where
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: they have an illness or even taking their own life.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: There's so many different ways that that happens. And each
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: one of those also have a unique way of interacting
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: And one of the things that I have learned from
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: that is that not one way is easier than another.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Because very sudden... is shocking. But, for example, my Michael,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: he went very sudden. The previous three years have been
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: the best years in our relationship, in our whole life together.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: On the day that Michael died, the husband of a
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: dear friend, study friend, so a friend from 60 years ago,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: He had been in a nursing home for three years,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: totally demented. Now what's worse?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: All the gratitude that I could feel about the wonderful
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: time that we had had together until very recently and
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: all the problems that my friend had had with her husband.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: And still, it's difficult when they then go. I mean,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: so every circumstance brings its own dynamics and its own
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: circumstances that give color to the grief that is going on.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I'm grateful that we met you during that period that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah. And we were able to get
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: to know Michael and interact with him and meet him.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And listen to his wisdom.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. What a human he was.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and they say grief is love. The
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: more love there is, the deeper the grief feels. However,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: a relationship where there is a lack of love, what
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: is the depth of the pain of what was never there?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, man, yeah. So....
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Every reason that I have to be grateful, both for
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: my son and my husband, that we had this wonderful relationship,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: that they were lovely people, that they were successful people, that,
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: you know, what a gift. What a gift. But, you know,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: the pain of them being gone, yeah, that is something
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: you have to find a way to deal with.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: As we were talking in the beginning before we got
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: started here, aging was one of the things we wanted
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: to go into as well.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And, you know, as we look at that, you and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I looked each other in the eye and said, well,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: you know, people are afraid to die. Yeah. Yeah. And
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: so going through that process of aging, you're afraid to die,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and you're afraid to experience others around you dying, all
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: of that. And it's hard because our society has not
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: offered us ways to prepare for that, to be ready
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: for that, to be okay with that, and embrace it
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: in a way that we recognize that it's a part
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: of our life.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's a part of living.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It's a part of living. It's not something to push
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: over in the corner and never talk about. It's something
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to actually.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Well, and that is one of the things that can
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: easily come with grief. Can you choose to confront it?
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: Can you choose to deal with it rather than trying
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: to push it away and to put it in that
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: corner of the topics that we don't talk about? And
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: in that sense, the actual grief experience can help you
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: to confront you, to be realistic about the end of
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: this life. Because there is an end to this physical life,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: whether we would like to talk about it or not.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: And yes, as you say, our society is not so
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: oriented on that. On the contrary, our society is very
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: much focused on eternal youth, which of course is not
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: the case. And we know that, but how willing are
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: we to give that thought and make that part of
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: our discussion?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Well, and the aging process kind of sneaks upon you
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: We were talking about how it can feel when you first,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: like for us, when we first make a decision to
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: retire and we're like, oh, we have now freedom to
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: go and do something else and do this and that.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And then we have to really check with ourselves to say, well,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: where's our energy level? Because we sort of fantasize that
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: you'll be able to do these things with the same
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: energy of when you desired to do them when you
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: were younger. And that's really just not true.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: No, that's not true. No, from that perspective, I always, yeah,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I think the best way to say it is smile
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: about that expression that you see a lot in advertising,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: kind of, you know, the golden years, you know. Get
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: yourself good shoes for your golden years. Well, I mean,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: how golden is that? Yes, there is something too that
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: the have-tos in our younger years can be stopped. But
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I think that the period of the golden years relatively
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: is for most people relatively short. So the excitement about, okay,
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: no longer having to go to do this and then,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: going out to do some traveling or whatever. Okay, that
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: is the ideal of the golden years, right? And that
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: is a reality. That is true and that is wonderful
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: and that's beautiful and that is what a lot of
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: people do and that is good. However, there is more
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: to it. And maybe the whole aging situation has come
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: more on my path as my years are progressing. I'm
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: in really good shape, and I notice I do not
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: have the energy I used to have when I was younger,
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: when I was the Energizer Bunny and could do just anything.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: I can't do that anymore, and that frustrates me. How
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: do I deal with that frustration? And how do I
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: deal with looking around me and seeing people of my
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: age or considerably younger that are in much lesser shape
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: than I am? And that's all part of aging. I
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: live here in a 55-plus community, so I see people
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: around me that are aging. I see couples where the
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: one is becoming the caregiver for the other. And that
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: is not easy. And that has all to do with aging.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: And being a caregiver when you are my neighbor lady,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: she is 83 and she is the caregiver for her husband.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: And she said, yeah, I had not exactly signed up
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: for that, but this is the situation. You know, so...
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: How do we approach that and how can we be
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: realistic about that? How do we deal with that? Aging
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: is not so easy. Sometimes people who get older are
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: admired because they are so optimistic and they are not
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: complaining and they are never whining. However, how do they feel?
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: So there is no room for a person who is
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: getting older that is kind of, you know, not always
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: in the optimal space.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know when my brothers and I get together,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I'm the youngest of six. And when we get together, many,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: many times one of the main things that, that is
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a topic of discussion is, you know, where we're at
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: health wise. Yeah. Uh, what are the things that we're
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: dealing with? I've had a brother that's, uh, uh, in, uh,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: remission from cancer. Um, another brother that's, you know, what
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: each of us have our own things and me being
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the youngest, I'm observing it with all of them.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm starting to experience it now myself. Yeah. I'm
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: 64 and, So I'm starting to experience some of those
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: things myself, and I'm entering into those years. Ray has
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a friend that calls them the go-go years, the slow-go years,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: and the no-go years. And you know that I'm still,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely not go-go. I'm in the slow-go, but I
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: don't look forward to that time of the no-go. I
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: know it's coming. But I feel like you, a little
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: bit less motivation for some of the things. But I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: do still want to travel. We like traveling. We like going.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: That's why we're here. We drove down here for the weekend.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: We like to do things like that.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I used to do that too.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: And I'm noticing that that desire is kind of going
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: away a little bit. And then I think, oh, my gosh.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: We always thought kind of, you know, when you're younger,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you keep your head straight, keep your focus. And, you know,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: because it's all, you can all make that. And that
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: is being admired from people. Oh, that person is in
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: their 80s and they still take their role. touring caravan
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: and they go, you know. Yeah, some people do. But
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of people don't. And the younger people, and
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I have to be honest, when I was younger myself too,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't bother myself, I didn't occupy myself too much
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: with those kind of thoughts.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all. Yeah. I mean.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: And that's in itself good, because a 35-year-old should not
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: live in the same world of thinking as a 70-year-old.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's a healthy situation. However, that does not
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: mean that the aging is all piece of cake.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And there is a number that when you arrive at
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: this number, that means, because it's subjective, each person... their,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: their lifespan is going to be what their lifespan is
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: going to be. And, you know, the health issues that
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: arise and whether you are still ready to go, go
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: or slow go or no go. Uh, I've got a
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: good friend of mine who comes to all of these
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: primitive skills gatherings that I attend and he's in his
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: 80s and he shows up spry. I mean, he's super inspiring. Yeah.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: But he's super health conscious as well. The thing that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: he struggled with a lot is his eyesight.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: And he didn't want to go in and get a surgery.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: He didn't want that. And so he tried a lot
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: of different ways to try and help that. Natural ways
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to try and help that. But I think eventually, I
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: think he actually did have surgery, at least on one eye.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It just became, you know, he's still driving. He drives
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: from Colorado to Utah to come to these gatherings. And
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: he's inspiring to me. So that's the dude I want
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to be is that guy.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: All right, but the interesting thing is we all want
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: to be that guy.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but everybody has their own time frame.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And guess what? It doesn't always work that way.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: It doesn't.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Well, because I'm kind of laughing, even on our drive down,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Scott's saying to me, wow, look at how these people
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: are driving. You know, the zipping bias really fast. He's
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: paying attention to the speed limit. And I could tell,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like, we're going to get, that will only continue until,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: To become more noticeable is how we prefer to drive
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: and travel the roads and how others actually drive.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I sometimes have to really laugh about myself because I
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: was always a speed demon. So, you know, you can
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: get at least five miles over the maximum, right? Without
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: getting caught.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And I was always there.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: And nowadays I'm five miles under. And I keep laughing
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: and people would think, well, yeah, white hair, old lady
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: behind the wheel.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, I totally get it. And I agree with you
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: that people want to be like that optimal version.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: But for the majority, that isn't what happens. I mean,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: even as we traveled this time, to Greece and Turkey
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: with my siblings, we all became very aware of the
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: limitations that the younger crowd that was traveling with us
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: didn't have. And we were opting instead of the thousand
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: steps to climb, we took an Uber and we said,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: we'll meet you at the top. And it's totally okay
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: that we do that. Like we're not going to shame
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: ourselves or say, oh, we should have pushed harder. We
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: can still do it. Because what's there to prove, right? Right.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the thing.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: And it is a healthy way of doing things because,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: you know, this need to prove is not a healthy thing.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just becoming aware of your limitations
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: and honoring them and just trying really hard to minimize
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: them as much as you can. will make the aging
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: process easier.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I think it's when you become in resistance to aging
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: that everything then seems to accelerate.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Where if you become more in harmony with like, you know,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: it's like my hair, you know, I was dying my hair, Myra,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: ever since I, I think around 40. Well, actually maybe
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: even younger, I started to get a lot of white
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: hair and I just kept dying my hair and dying
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: my hair and, And it got to the point that
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I was almost dying my hair like every 10 days.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And finally, my head hurt, like my scalp itched. And
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I turned to Scott one day and I said, I'm
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: just going to let my hair be what it wants
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you did that.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: And I did. And, you know, I think it immediately
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: made people more aware of the likelihood of how much
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: older I was than what I... than they had perceived
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: me to be. But it's given me such permission to
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: be who I am. And my hair is, I let
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it be curly. Now I used to straight iron it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I just allow my hair to be what it is.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: And now I'm like, I can't believe I put chemicals
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: on my crown.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: As much as I was doing for what reason?
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Right. I remember when you used to straighten your hair
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and I loved it. It was beautiful. But, uh, And also...
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: And also... And also, you would sometimes just let it
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: be curly. And you always ask me which I preferred
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and what did I... Curly. Absolutely.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Because it's so naturally curly. Yeah. It's perfect.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's really... It surprises me when people compliment me. Like,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: even checking out of the hotel, the girl goes, your
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: hair is so pretty.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: And it catches me because... I have a perception that
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: older and pretty do not go together. So I get
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: caught off guard when people say that. But I get
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: it a lot, don't I?
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Scott's with me all the time and they'll stop us.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: And Scott says it's because it's curly and it's this
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: and it's that, whatever it is. But again, I think
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: if whatever you're in resistance to versus that you align
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and let it be, in harmony with you, everything feels
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: so much better.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: You needed to do something to match my beard.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Well, and then you, you just kept, we look very
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: much like we belong together, which is perfect. I want
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to look like we belong together.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I thought my hair was Brown until like two years ago.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And then I, she asked me what color my hair was.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I said, Brown.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: She goes, your hair's not Brown. I said, well, look
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: at it.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It's Brown. And then I, Took a little closer look
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in the mirror. It's great. It's not white.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: No, it's not white.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: But it's definitely not brown. It used to be.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of it has to
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: do with accepting whatever age we have. Accepting that what is, is.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: When we are.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Younger, we....
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Have not been so good yet, oftentimes, at accepting what is, is.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Whether it's the color of our hair, that we feel
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the need to dye, or, uh, or, or whether it's
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: other things. And I think that is one of the
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: benefits of, uh, growing older, of aging, that that becomes
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: easier to accept what is, is. Yeah. Um, It's just
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: that in this more mature age group, there's more things
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: that we have to accept that are not always so easy.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: So there is a shift in the level of what
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: we need to accept as compared to when we were younger.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that is maybe becoming a little
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: wiser now.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Well, and that, I believe, is part of the reason
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: why community is so important, where the generations still live
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: collectively together, that the aging aren't isolated to live by themselves,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: that they are still part of community because that wisdom
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: can gently say, like, oh, you should accept what is. Now,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: maybe the younger generation won't hear it like we didn't
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: when we were younger, but I think just having that
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: balance and that, the space for that conversation is so important.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And I definitely think the younger generation is reaching for
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: that more so than we reached for it when we
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: were younger.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: I think so too.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I see that in the healing groups. The
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: younger generation seems to say quicker, because I've said, wow,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: at 30, I wish I would be where you are
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: at 30 to some of these people. Right. And I
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: didn't get there until 50. I didn't start contemplating that
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: until I was like 50. And they're thinking of things
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: in their 30s. So I do think there's more room
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: for that shared experience because people will come along faster
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: and have such a different perspective for a longer aspect
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: of their lives. And how beautiful will that be? I
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: think that will change the collective experience tremendously.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I believe so too.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: So as we're sitting here talking about this part of aging,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: how did that play into your decision to move back
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: to Holland? And let's talk about that a little bit.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, coming back to that topic. Yes, that definitely has
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: everything to do with it because I realized that in
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: this phase of my life, I.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Have decided that I want to be closer to my
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: daughter and my daughter wants me to be closer to
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: her just you know in case right now I'm in
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: good shape but in case I would become less good
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: in shape and I might need some assistance or whatever
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: she says you know that's that's just nothing I can
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: do I'm just too far away oh yeah And I
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: feel the desire to be closer to her. Besides, we have,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: it's very interesting, we have realized that after her teenage years,
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: there has been two years in our life that we
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: were not a continent apart. And we have this kind of,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: you know, let's change that.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I want to be closer to her in
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: the first place. Be closer to my family. Yes, that too.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: You still have living siblings.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I have two younger sisters and two younger brothers.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: But, of course, we are all in the same 70s
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: age group.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're now in the same community that you were
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: when you were children.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Where do you fall in the line of them? Just curious.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I'm the oldest.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: You're the oldest.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. So they are the younger ones. But, yeah,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: so just be closer to them. And in addition, there
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: is a little complication that my daughter has 20 years
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: ago had a little bit of an issue with immigrations.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: There was really nothing going on, but it created the
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: red flag. So her possibility of coming to visit in
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: the United States could be leading to problems. It has
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: not in the past, but at this moment that could happen.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Things are not as they were. Right.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Things can get complicated quickly here.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Things can get complicated here. So, uh, so that, that
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: made it for me, uh, yeah, I, I, I want
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: to go back. I, uh, I want to be, I'd
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: want to be closer to her. Very simple. However, when people,
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: when I tell people that I go to the Netherlands,
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: people in general, people very, uh, responding very much kind of, Oh,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: how nice, how exciting. And, uh, Well, it's also double
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: because I have been here 29 years, as I said,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: and I have a lot of friends here. My world
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: has been here for 30 years. And, yeah, I have
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: been gone in Holland for 30 years. So it's going
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: to be socially, from a social perspective, it will be different.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: Although I do have friends there. I have old friends there,
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: but I also have friends there that I made while
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: I was here in the United States. So that is nice, too.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: I don't see you having trouble making new friends.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't either.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. When I'm realistic, I think
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: kind of, you know, hey, Amayra, don't worry about that.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Um, the political situation, Holland is not the way it
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: used to be. Uh, that, that is a little bit
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: kind of difficult for me to kind of, uh, yeah, embrace. Uh,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: I always had this idea that, uh, the Dutch were
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: very open-minded. Well, that is over. That's no longer. And, uh, So, yeah,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: that is not the easiest way. And there is what
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: I find difficult with this move. I have moved across
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: the ocean. This is my fourth time.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: And this is by far the most difficult. And then
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: I think, did I forget about how difficult the previous
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: times was? No, the previous times I just did it.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: And now it is just more, oh, all that needs
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: to be done for that and getting rid of all
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: my stuff and how do I do this and how
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: is that going to happen? It's more difficult to live
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: with the uncertainty that I do not know exactly where
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: I'm going to live in the beginning. So it's a challenge.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Four times you've moved across the ocean.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, when I was in my 30s, I lived in
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: the Caribbean for eight years. So we moved there with
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: a family, with a young family. And then I moved
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: back to Holland. And then in 1997, I moved here.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: And so now I moved back.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's Dutch islands in... Caribbean, that's where you went.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where we went. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We worked
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: there as teachers. And, yeah. Yeah, very, very interesting, beautiful time. But,
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: you know, that was a decision kind of, oh, yeah, oh,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: that is going to be exciting.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: You know. An adventure. An adventure.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: And I, this is also going to be an adventure,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: but a little bit of a different nature. And, I'm
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: not sure whether I do relate it to age. I'm
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: still not completely sure whether I can blame that on
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: my age.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: An aspect of it, right? Because you don't have the energy.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: The move requires so much more energy now than the
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: energy that came so naturally. I look at when I
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: was 25 and moved to New York, and now the
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: thought of moving to New York City... does not even
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: appeal to me at all.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of energy that you have
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: to step into for big moves like this. Yeah. Even
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: if it's returning home. Like you said, home has changed. Yeah.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: You know, and that is so interesting what you are saying.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: And I hear that quite a bit when people ask
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: me or when I say that I go to the Netherlands. Oh,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: you're going home. And I was kind of, you know,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I have always very stubbornly maintained that home is where
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: I am.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: That's where I make my home. So is Holland home? Well,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: I can understand the expression of kind of going back home,
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: going back to you. But I prefer to call it
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: I go back to my native country. I do not.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: know yet how at home I'm going to feel there
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: I am not sure and have I been gone so
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: long that I will never feel completely at home anymore
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: I am not sure.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I do love that you say home is where you
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: are because you kind of we feel that way you
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: carry home with you yeah And, yeah, you'll have to
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: see how that feels.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Because you'll be there, so from that aspect it'll be home,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: if home's with you, right?
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: But it's like, but is it home because this is
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: where it started?
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Is my origin really home, you know?
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Right. And then I wonder, okay, how at home have
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: I always been in the United States?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe at some point I realized that I
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: have also considered my living here from a visitor perspective.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: And how at home is that?
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: From a what perspective?
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: A visitor perspective. And totally enjoying what I perceived as
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: visitors but how at home is that?
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: That's such a beautiful question to just ask, right? Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: Can I offer something from, from, cause we came from
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the same place. Yeah. And in Idaho, we were born
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: and raised in the same little small town, very small town.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And, um, I like to go there. I like to
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: go there and I like to visit. Um, probably now
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: in our retirement years, I could probably live there. There's
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: things about it that I maybe don't like, but I
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: had an experience just the other day that kind of brings,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: brings this up. And it's kind of where Ray and
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I connected back to that when we first started dating again,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: this was 2010, 2011 timeframe, because we would go home
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and visit. My mom was still alive at the time
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: and her dad was, and we'd go back and stay
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: with them and visit. And but what made it home
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: for me was it was less about the place and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: even the culture and the people, but it was the
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: feeling of that place, the natural feeling of that place.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: So I was invited by a good friend of mine
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: that I went to high school with the other day
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: to go to his home, which is close to this place,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: and The natural world there is all the same. And
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: we got on his boat and went out in the
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: swamps and went fishing. And I got to hear the
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: red-winged blackbirds. And I got to hear the yellow-headed blackbirds.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And all these sounds that I'm living now, I don't hear.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Unless I go out in the swamps and the marshes,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I can hear them again. But it just brought that
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: feeling of all those things from my childhood back. of
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: when I would be out there fishing and hunting in
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: the marshes and experiencing that. And it really, for both
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: of us, brought us to that place of feeling that
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: deep connection to the earth in that place because that's
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: where my connection to the earth really started was there.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, maybe for you, because I know
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you love nature too, and I know you love being
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: outdoors and hiking and all of those things. Maybe, how
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: do you feel about that? Maybe that's one of the
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: things that can help you integrate back into that.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure, Scott, because I experience things today different
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: than I did when I was much younger. There was
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: no nuns.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: This is from our conversation earlier because she was in
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: a boarding school for a number of years.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a less pleasant experience. But
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: so my childhood memories, I'm sure they will come back. Like,
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: for example... You know, the Arizona weather, you can't beat that,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: of course, other than, okay, we are entering the hot season.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: But all those days, there's bright sunshine and much light,
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: and I go back to Holland, there's so much grayness
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: and there's so much chilliness and there's so much rain
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: and everything. Yeah, that makes the country green. But I
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: have childhood memories. that I really enjoyed sitting at home
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: and hearing the rain on the windows and being comfortable
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: at home. So I'm hoping that I will be able
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: to connect with these old memories. And yes, the memories
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: with the... The boarding school memories, that is a little bit.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: But what makes you feel at home are oftentimes the
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: younger memories.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: I have experienced my boarding school period as kind of
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: a little, in a sense, traumatic. But I was 11
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: at the time, and I think your childhood, your real
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: childhood memories that makes the deepest impression, that's younger.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Those are at a younger age.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Starting around five, five, six, seven.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or even younger.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Or even younger, yeah. Depending on your ability to recall them,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I think they surface.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: Even when you do not specifically recall them, but the
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: forming years, they always say, the forming years are before
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: you're seven. So I think even if you don't exactly
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: remember exact memories per se... But that basic feeling of
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: how you feel, I think the basis is laid before
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: the age of seven.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: So from that perspective, I may do a little dramatic
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: about my boarding school period, but maybe.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: But a lot of joy from the younger years, because
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: you were the first child.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: So... Connecting back to what that felt like, that freedom.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: When did you, at what age did you have a sibling?
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, soon.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Soon, okay. So you'd had siblings pretty young.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had siblings pretty young. So my sense of
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: responsibility of being the oldest with my younger ones that
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: kicked in very early on. So yes, I was, as
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: a young kid, I was a, Pretty bossy little girl because,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: you know, I had to be in charge of.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Younger ones.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: Younger ones.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally get that.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't have that.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't have that.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I was getting bossed around a lot. That's all I
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: was getting.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, so that's coming soon. This big
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: adventure is... There's chapters that are coming to... fruition like
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: you're writing but you'll probably continue writing.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: Well my sister keeps telling me kind of you have
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: to make a dutch translation of your book yes because
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: uh yes a lot of people do read english in
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: holland but uh in my family for example their level
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: of english is such that they have so far not
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: decided to buy my book sure and It's not that
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: I need to make a translation per se for my family,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: but yeah. So that is a consideration that I am
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: going to make a Dutch version. And then the book
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: needs to be modified then a little bit too. But
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: which is interesting because if I do that, part of
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: it is easy because I told you about the channeled parts.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: The part that I did with my son was originally
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: written in Dutch because I communicate with him in Dutch.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: So I had for the book, I had to translate
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: it into English to make it ready for the book.
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: So now the communication with Michael, that was in English
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: because that was our.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of interesting how that works. So that
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: channel part, that is ready to go.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Well, Amayra, as we kind of move to wrap this up,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: is there any advice that you have, anything that you'd
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: like to share to close this out?
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think earlier we were talking about aging. I
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: think if we live our life as much in an
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: in a state of awareness and most of all in
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: a state of gratitude for every opportunity we have, I
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: think then that's the best chance that we make the
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: most of it and that we never have to have
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: regrets on if only we had done this or if
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: only we had done that. So be loving of yourself.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: be good to yourself taking good care of yourself um
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: and that sounds all about yourself but if you do
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: that that means that you can be loving and taking
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: care and and be understanding and be accepting of others
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: because without the loving of yourself you cannot love anybody
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: else so um I think the best way to prepare
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: for the aging process is to do exactly that. And
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: once you're in that category of, let's say, the more
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: mature years or the golden years, to still make the
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: most of it and keep.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: Not exactly, not fighting it, finding a new balance in
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: accepting things, accepting that things are the way they are,
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: and at the same time always also stretching ourselves to
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: see what we can do and to see how we
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: see things. And to be compassionate with others and with ourselves.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: That's so beautiful.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Wonderful. Thank you for being here, allowing us to come
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: in and take advantage of your wisdom and listen to
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: you and your sharing.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Well, that's fun. And thank you for the opportunity to.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: To communicate with you guys because it's always fun and
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: to do that in a way that it's being well
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: that others can be sharing in this.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you I treasure our friendship so even though an
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: ocean will separate us I don't see us not staying
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: in touch and being in touch and still communicating yes.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Sure stay in touch We can always do a Zoom call.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: We can always do a Zoom call.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: We got the Zoom now.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: And Holland is some place I would love to see.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Well you are being invited to my 80th birthday party
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: because I'm going to do a big party let us
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: know in September this year?
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: This year alright we need to know the date we
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: need to look at that September 13 that's your birthday.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: The birthday is on the 12th, but the location where
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: we want to do the party, well, it fitted better
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: to do it on Sunday, the 13th. Yeah, so if
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: you're planning a trip to Europe.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll look at that. That's a perfect time to
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: tie it all in.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: A fellow Virgo. I'm the 18th.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I probably told you that a long time ago. All right,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: so we'll close then for now. We'll make this happen
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: again sometime, and hopefully we can see you in September. Perfect.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: That would be wonderful.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, it would.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Amira.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: All right, so until next time.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Bye.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:00:16
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