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What should we make of the Tigers' 4-7 start? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:12
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, Detroit Tiger's podcast.
0:14
Speaker 2: I'm Queren Steckley.
0:15
Speaker 1: With me as always, this man who likes to take
0:17
Speaker 1: the stairs to stay level.
0:20
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How you doing, I'm doing all right.
0:23
Speaker 3: I'm actually a huge proponent of taking the stairs, if
0:26
Speaker 3: at all possible.
0:27
Speaker 4: Getting a little steps, getting a little little extra workout.
0:30
Speaker 4: Why y'all taking the elevator?
0:31
Speaker 2: Come on, I don't really side note.
0:34
Speaker 1: I know people don't care about this, but you know,
0:36
Speaker 1: my father is an amplitee and there are a lot
0:39
Speaker 1: of people who take the elevator that do not need
0:42
Speaker 1: to take the elevator. For one fly stairs. All right,
0:44
Speaker 1: soapbox oper Uh, we can move on to the some
0:48
Speaker 1: tiger talk here. We are recording this shortly after a
0:53
Speaker 1: two to four loss to Minnesota, that is following a
0:57
Speaker 1: three to seven loss to Minnesota. Obviously at Minnesota and
1:01
Speaker 1: the Tigers are now four and seven.
1:03
Speaker 2: So Cody, I I sometimes I.
1:06
Speaker 1: Do this exercise when we're gonna do like relative postgame pods,
1:11
Speaker 1: which we don't do all the time, but like pretty
1:14
Speaker 1: immediate postgame pods, and I kind of like want to
1:17
Speaker 1: jot down like my feelings about where the Tigers are
1:20
Speaker 1: at and then kind of compare it to what happens
1:24
Speaker 1: in the game and whether it's one of those things
1:27
Speaker 1: that carries over or like is contradictoring what I thought
1:32
Speaker 1: for the game.
1:34
Speaker 2: In this case, a lot of it is carrying over.
1:36
Speaker 1: So I feel, okay, kinda kind of like presenting this
1:40
Speaker 1: as an overall theme.
1:42
Speaker 2: And that's when you're four and.
1:44
Speaker 1: Seven to start, and again it's eleven games, but when
1:48
Speaker 1: you're four and seven to start, the way I kind
1:50
Speaker 1: of look at the way the team has played is
1:54
Speaker 1: the superpowers maybe even like the team ethos and identity
2:00
Speaker 1: and like all these things that like we've become accustomed
2:03
Speaker 1: to following this team have just not played out to
2:09
Speaker 1: this point. And everything that we're gonna be talking about
2:12
Speaker 1: is to this point.
2:14
Speaker 2: So I kind of jotted down.
2:16
Speaker 1: Like what what what are or what should this team's
2:22
Speaker 1: superpowers be? And this is in no particular order, but
2:26
Speaker 1: starting pitching, and obviously school Bawl is and we witness
2:30
Speaker 1: him today, school Ball is a part of what should
2:32
Speaker 1: be the superpower of this team. And obviously what is
2:35
Speaker 1: mostly the superpower of this team, the extra base thing
2:38
Speaker 1: we've seen that that is obviously still a part of
2:41
Speaker 1: the DNA of this squad. Defense and and not necessarily
2:46
Speaker 1: like excelling defensively but smartly playing defense with positioning and
2:53
Speaker 1: scouting reports and and all that stuff, offensive upside back end,
2:59
Speaker 1: bullpen excellence and using the whole bench and if I
3:07
Speaker 1: as I list those out, Cody, it's kind of a
3:10
Speaker 1: mixed bag. It's kind of a mixed bag bag of
3:13
Speaker 1: what we've seen through eleven games. So I don't know
3:18
Speaker 1: if it necessarily means something. But part of the reason
3:21
Speaker 1: I like doing this podcast, part of the reason I
3:23
Speaker 1: like kind of taking notes on what's happening in the
3:25
Speaker 1: moment is because we can look, we document it, and
3:31
Speaker 1: then we see if it plays out.
3:34
Speaker 2: And some of this stuff is a problem. Some of
3:38
Speaker 2: this stuff is okay.
3:40
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot of Yeah, this is actually
3:43
Speaker 1: going really well in a four and seventh start, And
3:46
Speaker 1: that's where we're at on Tuesday, April seventh, after a
3:51
Speaker 1: four and seven start.
3:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, like, am I concerned about a four
3:55
Speaker 3: and seven start?
3:56
Speaker 4: Not really?
3:58
Speaker 3: Probably the one thing that does have me concerned is
4:04
Speaker 3: you lost to you got swept by a Diamondbacks team
4:07
Speaker 3: that I'm not sure they might end up being pretty good.
4:09
Speaker 3: I'm not a huge fan of their pitching. I'm not
4:11
Speaker 3: a huge fan of that roster construction. You dropped the game.
4:15
Speaker 3: You probably should have wanted to sweep the Cardinals, who
4:17
Speaker 3: might be in for a really rough year. That you
4:18
Speaker 3: come out, You've already dropped two games in Minnesota to
4:22
Speaker 3: a Twins team that, in theory, is not going to
4:25
Speaker 3: be very good this year. Last year, you know, you
4:28
Speaker 3: were what they started two and five. You know, you
4:31
Speaker 3: go to Los Angeles, you face the Dodgers, you go
4:35
Speaker 3: into Seattle, you face a really tough runt of pitching.
4:37
Speaker 3: This year, you're off to a slow start, really against
4:40
Speaker 3: inferior competition, And that, I think kind of goes back
4:44
Speaker 3: to what we're talking about, the fact that the Tigers
4:46
Speaker 3: aren't playing to their strengths or up to their capability.
4:50
Speaker 3: This team was at its best for eighty to ninety
4:53
Speaker 3: games last year, when rarely did they play down to
4:55
Speaker 3: the opponent's level, when most of the time they were
4:58
Speaker 3: giving opponents nothing and forcing teams to play up to
5:02
Speaker 3: their level, where they had some killer instincts where they
5:05
Speaker 3: were fundamentally impeccable, where they were really aggressive. We just
5:10
Speaker 3: have not seen much of that so far. So that
5:12
Speaker 3: does like maybe that's one of those sparks you can
5:15
Speaker 3: easily recapture. But again, I don't know if you want
5:18
Speaker 3: to go back to last year, were three plus months
5:21
Speaker 3: into seeing just a kind of a different brand of baseball.
5:26
Speaker 3: The defense at times has been sloppy. The bad quality,
5:30
Speaker 3: I would say, has varied at best. Like I don't know,
5:36
Speaker 3: Trek School was really good until his final inning tonight.
5:39
Speaker 3: But oddly enough, you're already and your other losses. School
5:43
Speaker 3: start as a one to zero game, but you're already
5:44
Speaker 3: one and two when Tark Schoogle starts. You kind of
5:47
Speaker 3: need to win on schoobl days, those are gonna be
5:49
Speaker 3: your best chances. So there are certainly some things to
5:55
Speaker 3: worry about a little bit. I would like to see
5:58
Speaker 3: some swagger. I talked a lot this obviousely's about want
6:00
Speaker 3: to see some edge out of these guys. I thought
6:03
Speaker 3: that was kind of there, not like a certain level
6:06
Speaker 3: of confidence in spring training, but so far in the
6:08
Speaker 3: regular season, not seeing this team play with much edge.
6:15
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny, I I gave you credit because
6:18
Speaker 1: you just said something that I actually had not considered
6:23
Speaker 1: because of the way that the postseason went last year.
6:28
Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought of like regular season carry over
6:32
Speaker 1: into now and again eleven game caveat. We all understand this,
6:37
Speaker 1: but like there, but when you play like this, you
6:43
Speaker 1: open up the door of being like, well, the you know,
6:47
Speaker 1: July on Tigers were closer to the May slash April.
6:53
Speaker 1: However you wanted to find the first month of the
6:54
Speaker 1: season uh into uh into June Tigers, like that was
7:00
Speaker 1: the real one, the latter one. So like I guess
7:03
Speaker 1: former whatever, you know what I'm saying, Like Ladder in
7:05
Speaker 1: the season Tigers were closer to the real Tigers, which.
7:10
Speaker 2: Would be honestly obviously a problem.
7:16
Speaker 1: And and that and and and and there were certain
7:18
Speaker 1: things that were done in the offseason that you know,
7:21
Speaker 1: I was a believer in. I believe you were a
7:23
Speaker 1: believer in as well. That was supposed to kind of
7:25
Speaker 1: rectify some of that. Some of that was solidifying and
7:28
Speaker 1: starting pitching with some guys that already had fromber who
7:32
Speaker 1: for his part excellent, you know, uh in that element,
7:37
Speaker 1: bringing in a Jansen slidfying the back end of the bullpen.
7:40
Speaker 1: The McGonagall piece obviously is a key there. And and
7:44
Speaker 1: for the record, Ken McGonagall obviously another you know another
7:47
Speaker 1: you know, fine day today at the plate.
7:49
Speaker 4: He's playing with edge, he's playing with some swag.
7:52
Speaker 3: He's kind of the one, the more guy, a little
7:54
Speaker 3: bit of cold Keith, I would say, a little bit
7:55
Speaker 3: of Dylan Dingler.
7:56
Speaker 4: Those are the.
7:56
Speaker 3: Guys who've been playing a pretty high quality brand of
7:59
Speaker 3: base ball so far.
8:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and and and and maybe one of the.
8:07
Speaker 1: You know, there's a universal truth too, like this applies
8:12
Speaker 1: in football, And I'm curious whether you think this applies
8:14
Speaker 1: in baseball where in football, early early season games sometimes
8:18
Speaker 1: you say like, well, bad teams don't know they're bad
8:21
Speaker 1: until they're bad, right, I Like you just laid out
8:25
Speaker 1: sort of the opponents that the Tigers have played, you know,
8:28
Speaker 1: so far, Like maybe there's an element of that where
8:33
Speaker 1: it's like nobody's nobody in Minnesota, nobody in Saint Louis,
8:37
Speaker 1: nobody in Arizona, which again, will I guess the jury
8:41
Speaker 1: is still a little bit out on them, more so
8:42
Speaker 1: than the other two teams, but it like kind of
8:45
Speaker 1: knows their place yet in a way. So if you're
8:49
Speaker 1: looking for if you're looking for excuses reasons, that could
8:53
Speaker 1: be something.
8:54
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you I.
8:56
Speaker 1: I guess I should have researched this. This would have
8:59
Speaker 1: been a little bit of time consuming, but it might
9:01
Speaker 1: have been worth it for this point. Was there an
9:04
Speaker 1: eleven game stretch Cody last year where the Tigers had
9:07
Speaker 1: zero pinch hit hits?
9:10
Speaker 3: Like, we got to get the research department on that,
9:13
Speaker 3: because that is actually pretty crazy. And I know we
9:16
Speaker 3: talked about that a lot our last episode, and some
9:19
Speaker 3: people are still mad at aj Hinch for pinch hitting.
9:23
Speaker 3: I don't think the fact I don't think he's gonna
9:26
Speaker 3: stop doing it, all right, and I don't think he
9:28
Speaker 3: should stop doing it, But that is you want to
9:30
Speaker 3: talk about not playing to their strings. Some of this
9:33
Speaker 3: team is designed to do and either it just hasn't
9:37
Speaker 3: worked out or they haven't had guys come through in
9:39
Speaker 3: those opportunities. Sure that is concerning. The reason aj Hinch
9:43
Speaker 3: does this is because in theory, it's supposed to work
9:46
Speaker 3: more often than not, and I would venture to guess
9:49
Speaker 3: it probably will start working. It's still a very small sample.
9:52
Speaker 3: Pinch hit at bats are actually kind of as random
9:55
Speaker 3: as you can get, and I'm talking about in a
9:57
Speaker 3: very small sample like this, But yeah, that's that's not great,
10:02
Speaker 3: right that that goes against what we believe to be
10:05
Speaker 3: the DNA of this this Tigers team.
10:09
Speaker 1: And speaking of DNA, we're gonna get to here in
10:12
Speaker 1: a second about the watchability of this team and how
10:15
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Speaker 2: Thank you, Seek Geek. All right, So.
11:55
Speaker 1: ESPN today Tuesday did a like a ranking of all
11:59
Speaker 1: MLB teams on their watchability and they had their own formula.
12:03
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna like rehash everything that they did,
12:05
Speaker 1: but uh, the Tigers placed night, which is actually about
12:10
Speaker 1: where I thought they would be.
12:11
Speaker 2: And and some of the reasoning was.
12:15
Speaker 1: Like why they, you know, with for a team that
12:17
Speaker 1: made it to the final four in their in their
12:21
Speaker 1: league back to back years.
12:23
Speaker 2: You think it might be in you know, the schoobl element.
12:25
Speaker 2: You think it might be a little bit higher. But
12:27
Speaker 2: aj likes the bullpen.
12:31
Speaker 1: You know, they don't steal a lot of bases, you
12:35
Speaker 1: don't hit a lot of home runs, and and and
12:40
Speaker 1: and overall, like it's it's you know, up until McGonagall,
12:44
Speaker 1: there wasn't like a young hot shot that you just
12:46
Speaker 1: like got to see or whatever.
12:48
Speaker 2: So this could change. And maybe Max Clark.
12:51
Speaker 1: Who will talk about uh here a little bit later,
12:54
Speaker 1: uh like, might change some of that.
12:57
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Cody, the.
13:01
Speaker 1: Tigers are at their best when they actually are a
13:03
Speaker 1: little bit more exciting. I think the extra base element
13:07
Speaker 1: is really exciting. I think having Will vest on the
13:11
Speaker 1: mound in crucial situations is very exciting. And the offensive
13:15
Speaker 1: upside is something that is fun to watch. When Riley
13:20
Speaker 1: Green is on, when you know, a torque bomb, I
13:23
Speaker 1: think that's pretty watchable. I don't know, maybe I'm biased.
13:26
Speaker 1: And then you know, the Cole Keith element could be
13:28
Speaker 1: one of the you know, if we're being fair, one
13:31
Speaker 1: of the storylines of the early parts of the season,
13:33
Speaker 1: like you know, one of the big breakout players of
13:36
Speaker 1: the American League.
13:37
Speaker 2: So not only are they so on a actual.
13:42
Speaker 1: Standings basis underperforming because you're four and seven, but I
13:46
Speaker 1: don't think they're that as watchable as as as they
13:51
Speaker 1: were projected to be right now. So it's it's a double.
13:54
Speaker 1: It's an aesthetic and a real life uh, real life
13:57
Speaker 1: detriment for the team right now.
14:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm actually I guess I'm not surprised that low.
14:03
Speaker 3: Especially Yeah, it's harder to defend that given that they're
14:06
Speaker 3: they're four and seven. But in addition to all the
14:09
Speaker 3: things you just laid out, like, they do have more
14:11
Speaker 3: star power than they've had in a long long time.
14:13
Speaker 3: And I guess Verlander being on the al doesn't help that.
14:16
Speaker 3: But if you assume at some point Verlander is going
14:19
Speaker 3: to be a healthy schoobles kind of must see TV,
14:22
Speaker 3: Like I feel like Fromber is almost underrated in a way,
14:26
Speaker 3: but that guy's pretty fun to watch. You have Kinley
14:29
Speaker 3: Jansen chasing, you know, saves milestones. You know, even maybe
14:36
Speaker 3: Riley Green is the most electrifying player of all time,
14:39
Speaker 3: but he's a two time All Star. He's a name
14:41
Speaker 3: people know. Hovey Baias is a name people know, and
14:43
Speaker 3: is very popular. I will say, like something about the
14:47
Speaker 3: Tigers brand, and I think through some of those additions,
14:51
Speaker 3: and of course McGonagall has started to like, maybe this
14:55
Speaker 3: means nothing, but I'm getting people from different periods of
14:59
Speaker 3: my life just texting me during random Tigers games so
15:02
Speaker 3: far this season, and pretty.
15:04
Speaker 4: Much that has never happened before.
15:07
Speaker 3: Uh, for whatever reason, when people are scrolling through games
15:10
Speaker 3: to watch, they're they're clicking on that Tigers game a
15:12
Speaker 3: little more often than they used to. If this team
15:16
Speaker 3: gets rolling a little bit, I think they have a
15:18
Speaker 3: case to be higher than ninth for sure.
15:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and you mentioned Riley Green. Riley
15:25
Speaker 1: Green is still like a highlight reel waying to happen,
15:31
Speaker 1: you know what I mean that that's an element.
15:32
Speaker 2: And then if you're.
15:35
Speaker 1: This doesn't probably do much for TV quote unquote watchability,
15:39
Speaker 1: but I do feel like if you are just like
15:42
Speaker 1: a baseball fiend, I don't know how you could not
15:45
Speaker 1: be riveted with a J.
15:48
Speaker 2: Hinch in the way that he operate operates a game,
15:51
Speaker 2: you know.
15:52
Speaker 1: What I mean, from a from a even just from
15:55
Speaker 1: the lineup standpoint and from you know, the pitching standpoint
15:59
Speaker 1: and and the and the pinch hitting standpoint like that,
16:02
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff like it it sparks reactions from
16:07
Speaker 1: the fans right likes so like like it like that
16:13
Speaker 1: to me feels watchable that like you know that that
16:16
Speaker 1: that that's that to me, Well.
16:17
Speaker 3: It's it's not for the casuals, which is probably part
16:20
Speaker 3: of the reason there there's so much pushback sometimes. But yeah,
16:23
Speaker 3: if you're if you're looking to nerd out man, watching
16:26
Speaker 3: a J. Hinch's brand of baseball is a good way
16:29
Speaker 3: to go about it. I mean sometimes, like I really,
16:32
Speaker 3: I really am grateful in a way for for covering
16:36
Speaker 3: AJ and how my perspective on certain things have changed
16:39
Speaker 3: and some of the things I've learned. I'll be talking
16:41
Speaker 3: to other baseball writers who are incredibly knowledgeable, uh maybe
16:45
Speaker 3: sometimes just about other situations, and like I have to
16:49
Speaker 3: kind of show them like, no, this is why that
16:51
Speaker 3: has happened. I'm not saying like they're certainly writers out
16:53
Speaker 3: there who know a lot more than I do. Still,
16:55
Speaker 3: but I've realized there, you know, I'm seeing the game
16:58
Speaker 3: in a different way, and it's okay, Like not everyone
17:01
Speaker 3: has to agree with every decision or agree with every
17:04
Speaker 3: opinion I have, but like the Tigers play a smart,
17:07
Speaker 3: different brand of baseball, So if you're looking to really
17:10
Speaker 3: nerd out on strategy, they certainly cater to that crowd.
17:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then if you're into front office strategy, the
17:18
Speaker 1: Tigers obviously give you ample, uh ample stuff to analyze.
17:24
Speaker 1: And and one of the guys and and this is
17:27
Speaker 1: you know, obviously I was I was absent from this
17:29
Speaker 1: podcast for the first part of the season, so uh,
17:33
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want you to repeat anything, but
17:35
Speaker 1: like we haven't had a chance to talk about it.
17:37
Speaker 1: We saw a lot of Connor Sea Bowl today, Cody
17:40
Speaker 1: and and as I'm looking at his stats right here,
17:44
Speaker 1: he's he's over six innings, six trackouts.
17:48
Speaker 2: Hasn't allowed nerd run h.
17:53
Speaker 1: What do we make of sort of like the last
17:55
Speaker 1: piece of the roster puzzle like coming into spring training,
17:59
Speaker 1: because again, that was if you want to talk about
18:01
Speaker 1: nerd and out, like that was something that the Tigers
18:05
Speaker 1: had to like make some structural changes to their ruster
18:09
Speaker 1: in order to bring him on.
18:11
Speaker 2: And they've used him. They have definitely used him so far.
18:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of this guy still.
18:18
Speaker 3: And I did talk about this with Raj and I
18:21
Speaker 3: pulled up his stuff. Plus ratings which have already kind
18:25
Speaker 3: of regressed to still average to slightly above average.
18:30
Speaker 4: He has walked three guys, had.
18:32
Speaker 3: Some other counts gone on longer than I would have
18:35
Speaker 3: liked to see. I like when that velo's sitting ninety four,
18:39
Speaker 3: ninety five, even ninety six, a lot more than it's
18:42
Speaker 3: when it's ninety three. But he's done some things like
18:45
Speaker 3: every now and then he throws you know, the slider
18:48
Speaker 3: or maybe even the fastball when he gets the right
18:51
Speaker 3: like approach angle, and it's like, okay, it's pretty nasty.
18:54
Speaker 3: Like I see why the models like him. I see
18:58
Speaker 3: even some of what the Tigers must see in him.
19:02
Speaker 3: He hasn't allowed to earn run so hey from that standpoint,
19:05
Speaker 3: going as well as you could ask, I feel like
19:06
Speaker 3: there have been a couple of these outings, even the
19:08
Speaker 3: most recent one in Minnesota, there's runners.
19:11
Speaker 4: Were on base.
19:11
Speaker 3: It was like kind of teetering to like, okay, this
19:14
Speaker 3: could get ugly in a hurry, but that hasn't happened,
19:18
Speaker 3: which maybe is a testament to him being able to
19:20
Speaker 3: lock down and pitch with runners on base. To the
19:24
Speaker 3: too long, didn't read version of that is like, I
19:27
Speaker 3: don't know, some interesting things, but uh, I want to
19:30
Speaker 3: see a lot more of this guy before really feeling
19:32
Speaker 3: confident in my in my opinion.
19:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, that statement that might that you just said right
19:41
Speaker 1: there might be somewhat of a theme that we're going
19:43
Speaker 1: to have here for the next couple of weeks.
19:45
Speaker 2: Is like I'd like to.
19:46
Speaker 3: See some eleven games in maybe that that should that
19:48
Speaker 3: probably should be what we're.
19:49
Speaker 2: Saying, because because like there's.
19:55
Speaker 1: If we're if we were gonna do checkpoints, and we're
19:57
Speaker 1: not actually doing that right now, So I don't want to,
20:00
Speaker 1: like Missmistreus sort of like the exercise here, but one
20:04
Speaker 1: of the players under the microscope coming into the season
20:08
Speaker 1: was Parker Meadows, and then you know, sort of like
20:10
Speaker 1: the fallout from there and if you want to if
20:15
Speaker 1: if you want to do just the box score check thing.
20:19
Speaker 1: Parker Meadows is right now clocking in at a two
20:22
Speaker 1: sixty seven average. If Parker Meadows can hit we'll just
20:27
Speaker 1: throw it down the two fifty. If Parker Meadows can
20:31
Speaker 1: hit two fifty, in theory, they should solve a lot
20:35
Speaker 1: of like questions and puzzles and conundrums that that the
20:39
Speaker 1: Tigers have and and like and could and makes that
20:44
Speaker 1: lineup that much deeper because obviously we know with defense
20:48
Speaker 1: and what he can do with his legs and all
20:50
Speaker 1: that stuff.
20:50
Speaker 2: And the reason I mentioned that.
20:53
Speaker 1: Is because Max Clark, who was mentioned in that ESPN
20:58
Speaker 1: little blurb about the watch a Bill, is that like,
21:00
Speaker 1: if if Max Clark comes up and it was sort
21:04
Speaker 1: of like with the assumption that you know, he would
21:07
Speaker 1: be like the everyday center fielder in that particular situation,
21:12
Speaker 1: would make the team more watchable, which I think anybody
21:17
Speaker 1: who remembers, I don't know, just a couple of months
21:20
Speaker 1: ago in spring training, it was definitely watchable Max Clark
21:24
Speaker 1: in spring training. But to his credit, and we're gonna
21:28
Speaker 1: talk about things that have you know, didn't go his way.
21:32
Speaker 1: He has gone to Toledo and he's just bald. I
21:34
Speaker 1: think I saw he's got like a nine game on
21:38
Speaker 1: bass streak. He's got he's got like a hit safely
21:41
Speaker 1: streak of seven games.
21:42
Speaker 2: He made a.
21:44
Speaker 1: Diving catch on a sinking line drive in front of
21:47
Speaker 1: him today in Toledo, you know, which is not the
21:49
Speaker 1: easiest thing to do in center field. And he was
21:53
Speaker 1: wearing the chains, you know, he had a turnal neck on,
21:56
Speaker 1: but you can still tell that the chains were there,
21:59
Speaker 1: And so I think it might be a good time
22:02
Speaker 1: to say, like, you know, are we on Max Clark
22:07
Speaker 1: watch Cody with you know this? This soon into the season,
22:12
Speaker 1: with Parker Metow's batting two sixty seven and Max Clark
22:15
Speaker 1: just basically doing everything for for Toledo right now. So
22:18
Speaker 1: to his credit, I think we gotta say he's doing
22:22
Speaker 1: he at the very least the uh was it? The
22:26
Speaker 1: tails of his exaggerate of his demise have been exaggerated.
22:30
Speaker 1: I think we could safely say that about Max Clark.
22:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that makes sortal sense.
22:35
Speaker 3: That goes back to like it's kind of overreacting to
22:38
Speaker 3: a bad spring training from a young kid in this
22:41
Speaker 3: his first big league camp. Like that happens sometimes for
22:44
Speaker 3: better or for worse. I also don't think we should
22:48
Speaker 3: be on Max Clark Watch. I think it is far,
22:50
Speaker 3: far too early for that. Kudos to Max Clark for
22:53
Speaker 3: going down. You want to make a good impression, you
22:55
Speaker 3: want to spark some of these conversations. Going and posting
22:58
Speaker 3: a one thousand plus ops and making some highlight plays
23:02
Speaker 3: in the field is a good way to get that going.
23:06
Speaker 3: I think it became pretty clear, Like, look, Clark's just
23:09
Speaker 3: a guy who's probably gonna need some time in Triple A.
23:12
Speaker 3: There's some things to smooth out. You want to be
23:14
Speaker 3: real sure he can be a plus center fielder in
23:18
Speaker 3: the major leagues whenever that time comes. I don't think
23:21
Speaker 3: he's gonna be up here really anytime soon, when he
23:26
Speaker 3: actually gets up to the major leagues. I do think
23:29
Speaker 3: is an interesting question to your point, like how much
23:32
Speaker 3: of that depends on Parker Meadows or the tigers general
23:37
Speaker 3: status in center field. I'm not sure. Maybe a lot.
23:40
Speaker 3: If Parker Meadows is playing well, then he's gotten some hits.
23:44
Speaker 3: I think he has one barrel. I'd like to see
23:45
Speaker 3: him drive the ball a little more, but the strikeout
23:48
Speaker 3: raid has been stable, so that's a huge plus for him.
23:51
Speaker 3: If Parker Meadows is playing well, I think the Tigers
23:53
Speaker 3: are gonna be content to just take their time with
23:56
Speaker 3: Max Clark, maybe try to preserve that rookie eligibility, which
23:59
Speaker 3: would be not seeing him until late August, if at
24:02
Speaker 3: all this year. But Parker made up Meadows is playing
24:05
Speaker 3: poorly and you try some hobby bias in center and
24:08
Speaker 3: that doesn't work out, and either Matt Vierling doesn't get going,
24:12
Speaker 3: or you gotta use Matt Verling elsewhere and you have
24:15
Speaker 3: a good team that you feel like can make a
24:17
Speaker 3: world series push. Maybe there's a world in which he
24:21
Speaker 3: could come up this summer. I think that's an interesting
24:24
Speaker 3: debate and would get us to spark the whole Service
24:27
Speaker 3: time and rookie eligibility conversation all over again, although in
24:31
Speaker 3: somewhat of a different light than the Kevin McGonagall conversation.
24:35
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm gonna say again, let's just give this
24:38
Speaker 3: one little more time.
24:42
Speaker 1: Well, one piece that you didn't mention there, Cody was
24:45
Speaker 1: one Wentz up.
24:46
Speaker 4: Perez great call out, Yeah.
24:50
Speaker 2: For his part.
24:52
Speaker 1: And again, sometimes it's not always like a credit business
24:55
Speaker 1: doing the podcast, but like sometimes I do feel like
24:58
Speaker 1: it is worthy to give guys credit in specific situations
25:02
Speaker 1: and tough spring. Wentzel has been a key cog. In fact,
25:08
Speaker 1: I just randomly, you know, just circulated on Twitter the
25:11
Speaker 1: final out of the twenty twenty four playoff clincher who
25:16
Speaker 1: catches the ball Wentzel Perez, you know, and so like
25:22
Speaker 1: a key member of the team the past couple of years,
25:24
Speaker 1: and a guy who was hurt last year and came
25:27
Speaker 1: back from injury two sixty three, he's got a let's
25:33
Speaker 1: see looking at it, he's got two home runs in TRIPLEA.
25:36
Speaker 1: Like he's getting to the point, Cody where I'm sure
25:40
Speaker 1: they gave him specific things to work on and like
25:43
Speaker 1: that you're just not gonna see in the box score
25:46
Speaker 1: or whatever.
25:46
Speaker 4: But if this.
25:47
Speaker 1: Goes for another two weeks, three weeks, a month, and
25:52
Speaker 1: anything above that, certainly then I'm gonna start thinking, are
25:56
Speaker 1: we wasting away Wentzel Perez time in Toledo when he
26:00
Speaker 1: could potentially help in Detroit? And so like if there's
26:05
Speaker 1: a Parker Meadows conversation, which, again to his credit, we're
26:08
Speaker 1: not there yet.
26:08
Speaker 2: We're just like playing out all the hypotheticals here.
26:12
Speaker 1: When Sol Pariz is a guy who like can play
26:14
Speaker 1: center field, has played center field.
26:17
Speaker 2: Might he be that?
26:18
Speaker 1: And might he also be part of it, whether it's
26:21
Speaker 1: the forty man part of it, whether it's the service
26:24
Speaker 1: time element with with with Max Clark. Might might he
26:28
Speaker 1: be somebody who just by kind of the nature of
26:32
Speaker 1: structurally how these things work, might actually be higher on
26:38
Speaker 1: the callups, the metaphorical callup sheet.
26:40
Speaker 4: You know what I mean about.
26:42
Speaker 3: I think we'll see Winsel Pari is fairly soon. It's
26:45
Speaker 3: just a matter of which is going to happen first,
26:47
Speaker 3: someone's gonna pull a hammy running the bases, or someone
26:51
Speaker 3: slow start is going to get to the point where
26:53
Speaker 3: they need a deeper reset. I think you're right, We're
26:57
Speaker 3: probably if we're talking reset for somebody, we're probably talking
27:01
Speaker 3: two to three more weeks at the minimum before it's
27:04
Speaker 3: gonna get to that point. And that's far enough in advance.
27:06
Speaker 3: I don't even really want to speculate on who that
27:08
Speaker 3: would be. We all know there are a few guys
27:10
Speaker 3: who were either a off to a slow start or
27:12
Speaker 3: be just not playing that much. So I actually wouldn't
27:16
Speaker 3: be surprised if there's, unfortunately, just someone gets hurt before
27:19
Speaker 3: then and then Winsle Winstle is probably going to be
27:21
Speaker 3: the guy up but I do think we will see him.
27:25
Speaker 3: He's stung some balls with triple digit X and velossities
27:28
Speaker 3: down in Toledo, and he's a good player, as aj
27:31
Speaker 3: Hanes said, like, he's still going to be part of
27:33
Speaker 3: this team when he does get up here. Maybe he
27:36
Speaker 3: can provide a little bit of a spark. He's done
27:38
Speaker 3: it before.
27:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, obviously injuries will happen what and
27:48
Speaker 1: illnesses will happen and look looks like Harry Carpenter. I
27:52
Speaker 1: mean obviously he pinched it today so hopefully like like
27:56
Speaker 1: he's okay. But but like those kind of things are
28:01
Speaker 1: like a reminder of just like how fickle some of
28:03
Speaker 1: this stuff can be, and like you know, somebody could
28:06
Speaker 1: get an opportunity that that you know that they that
28:10
Speaker 1: when you least expected.
28:12
Speaker 3: I guess, uh, Jamai Jones is oh for eight? Are
28:16
Speaker 3: you are you cutting them now?
28:19
Speaker 2: Is it too late to rescind the j Hen trade? Iscolate?
28:26
Speaker 3: We we've talked about this for it like Jamai Jones
28:28
Speaker 3: has the toughest job on the team and he has
28:30
Speaker 3: been put in some big situations. A J. Hinch pinch
28:34
Speaker 3: hit for him again in a big spot and he
28:36
Speaker 3: had a deep flyout. He did stay in to face
28:39
Speaker 3: a righty, which I don't love, and I feel like
28:42
Speaker 3: aj was able to manage around that. Last year a
28:47
Speaker 3: good bit, Jami had like twenty five at bats against Ridy's.
28:50
Speaker 3: He actually had a seven ninety seven oh ps against
28:52
Speaker 3: Ridy's although no home runs, but anyway, he got that
28:56
Speaker 3: at bat because again it was the biggest at bat
28:59
Speaker 3: of the game put him in in the middle of
29:01
Speaker 3: the middle innings with runners on bass aj was willing
29:04
Speaker 3: to take a shot there and live with the fact
29:07
Speaker 3: that might mean Jamia is up again in against a
29:10
Speaker 3: right handed pitcher in the eighth or the ninth, over
29:14
Speaker 3: eight sporadic at bats. I'm not that worried about it.
29:17
Speaker 3: Carry Carpenter started over eleven and we were all freaking out,
29:20
Speaker 3: and now people don't want to see him leave the game. So,
29:22
Speaker 3: like again, we did talk about Jamia in spring training
29:26
Speaker 3: because he is the most limited chess piece for lack
29:30
Speaker 3: of a better phrase, he probably might not have the
29:34
Speaker 3: longest leash, and he has the hardest job.
29:37
Speaker 4: So I think it's.
29:38
Speaker 3: Way too soon to react, to react or to overreact
29:42
Speaker 3: or say he's got to be off the roster, but
29:45
Speaker 3: he is. You know, he has some factors that kind
29:48
Speaker 3: of work against him a little bit in a way.
29:51
Speaker 3: He does have to come in and get a pinch
29:53
Speaker 3: hit at bat a hit at some point because that
29:58
Speaker 3: is his job, albeit a very tough job. So that's
30:01
Speaker 3: kind of how I see the two different sides of
30:04
Speaker 3: the Jami Jones conversation here.
30:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, like I'm and and and and
30:10
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, and I'll admit this, sometimes I'm like
30:13
Speaker 1: this to a fault that I'm a believer that if
30:17
Speaker 1: you have a plan, whether it's a macro or a
30:22
Speaker 1: micro plan, you you kind of have to let it
30:27
Speaker 1: play out to some sort of either statistical like uh
30:34
Speaker 1: like threshold or like to the extent that you feel
30:38
Speaker 1: comfortable that if you have to pivot, that you gave
30:41
Speaker 1: it the fullest extent uh of possibility of working out.
30:45
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying, So.
30:46
Speaker 1: Like like like like Parker falls into that category. And
30:50
Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about Parker a little bit,
30:53
Speaker 1: like I don't want to say too much, but just
30:56
Speaker 1: like just the general notion of we know how far
30:59
Speaker 1: that can fall if it if it does go down,
31:01
Speaker 1: And so I feel like we might be I say
31:03
Speaker 1: we mainly me like hep bringing him up.
31:05
Speaker 4: Oh he's getting some hits.
31:07
Speaker 1: Come yeah, yeah, but like you know, like but but
31:10
Speaker 1: like they're you have to let these things play out.
31:15
Speaker 1: In my opinion, and if you're gonna have Jami Jones
31:18
Speaker 1: on the roster with this very limited, very tough, very
31:21
Speaker 1: high leverage role, you have to give him room to
31:27
Speaker 1: do what he's designed to do, you know what I mean,
31:30
Speaker 1: Otherwise don't carry him on the damn roster.
31:34
Speaker 3: I'm feeling a j hinch and and probably Scott Irris
31:36
Speaker 3: as well would agree with you.
31:39
Speaker 1: So so yeah, like it everything, everything feels big in
31:44
Speaker 1: the moment as because he's only in big moments like
31:49
Speaker 1: Lit's like, you know, Jamia Jones is like, yeah, you know,
31:52
Speaker 1: I'd love a I'd love to just bad in the
31:57
Speaker 1: in the top of the second ending when it's zero
31:59
Speaker 1: zero and uh and you know, no runners on base
32:03
Speaker 1: and I just kind of do like the whole thing.
32:04
Speaker 1: But that's not the role, that's not the gig. And
32:07
Speaker 1: if you're gonna have him here, you have to you
32:09
Speaker 1: have to. You have to utilize him and give him
32:12
Speaker 1: enough enough room to succeed because that's why he's here.
32:15
Speaker 1: And there's a couple of guys on this team. That's
32:17
Speaker 1: how you structured the roster. So no major decisions ought
32:20
Speaker 1: to be made obviously on April seventh, April eighth, April nine,
32:24
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So, uh So that's and
32:26
Speaker 1: that certainly applies to some guys on you know, in
32:28
Speaker 1: the bullpen. We didn't talk as much about the bullpen today.
32:31
Speaker 1: But that certainly applies to some of these guys in
32:33
Speaker 1: the bullpen where it's like, over the course of a
32:36
Speaker 1: larger sample size, you believe you structured this team for
32:39
Speaker 1: these guys to have success in these advantageous situations. You
32:45
Speaker 1: can't be overreacting so far. But to bring it all
32:51
Speaker 1: back to the beginning, you are four and seven. You
32:54
Speaker 1: have not played to your capability. And I'm not even
32:57
Speaker 1: necessarily talking about the record, but just like the way
32:59
Speaker 1: you got to Ford at four and seven, it's certainly
33:02
Speaker 1: not playing to your capability, nor to your style, to
33:05
Speaker 1: your brand, to your you know, to your culture in
33:11
Speaker 1: some facets you know, to like too many gaps that
33:14
Speaker 1: that you just don't expect from from a sky Harris
33:18
Speaker 1: A J. Hinch, you know, more veteran team than they've
33:21
Speaker 1: had in a long time of squad.
33:23
Speaker 2: So those things will have to be corrected. I'm sure
33:25
Speaker 2: they will be.
33:26
Speaker 1: But as we sit and we talk here right now,
33:30
Speaker 1: like they do have to be corrected, I think that
33:32
Speaker 1: is fair to.
33:33
Speaker 4: Say, yeah, totally.
33:35
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that kind of goes back to how
33:37
Speaker 3: we started this episode and sums up the whole thing, Like,
33:39
Speaker 3: am I concerned about the Tigers. No, I think they're
33:43
Speaker 3: a pretty good team at I think at worst they're
33:46
Speaker 3: a pretty good team, and I think they have the
33:47
Speaker 3: capability to be a very good, too great team. I'm
33:51
Speaker 3: a little concerned we're not seeing more signs of of
33:55
Speaker 3: what you know, the old gritty Tiger's brand. I'd like
33:59
Speaker 3: to start seeing some of the.
34:01
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah see so yeah, see some more signs. That's
34:05
Speaker 1: that's the call to action, right there. See some more signs,
34:07
Speaker 1: that's what that's what we like to see. All right,
34:09
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap up here.
34:11
Speaker 3: Uh.
34:11
Speaker 1: You guys can follow us at Coche Stavenhagen. I'm at
34:13
Speaker 1: King Undersports, Declee at Tiger Territory Underscore.
34:17
Speaker 2: Uh, be on the lookout.
34:18
Speaker 1: We'll have a mail bag here in the next not
34:21
Speaker 1: exactly sure what day, but in about a week and
34:24
Speaker 1: about a week within, so be on the lookout on
34:27
Speaker 1: socials and you can obviously comment on YouTube at Tiger
34:30
Speaker 1: Territory uh, and we'll get to your questions. We have
34:33
Speaker 1: some already that are that are pretty uh pretty thought provoking,
34:36
Speaker 1: so looking forward to doing that. And Tiger Territory shop
34:40
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34:42
Speaker 2: So forth. Coach Stavenhagen, I'm keeteran Steckley. There we have
34:47
Speaker 2: great day.