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Why People Treat You Differently When You Change · The Original Self Podcast

0:00
You know what I mean? I look up from setting
0:04
my tray up for the day. I have no idea what she's
0:07
talking about. I've only been at this salon for
0:10
about six weeks, and I know this co -worker's
0:13
name, but it's not like I know her as if we had
0:17
worked together for at least a year, like I know
0:19
everything. She's waiting for me to agree with
0:23
her about something, so I just raise my eyebrow
0:26
instead. So she says it again, like it's obvious.
0:29
That client of mine, the one who lost all the
0:32
weight. She used to be so nice, but now she's
0:35
kind of a bitch. I manage to smile and mutter
0:40
out, wow. And then I go back to setting up my
0:45
tray, hoping that's the end of it. It's not.
0:50
She laughs again. She goes, you know what I mean,
0:52
right? How people lose weight and then they get
0:55
super bitchy. I tell her I've not been familiar
1:00
with that version of people or that characteristic.
1:05
She looks at me for a second like I just missed
1:09
the punchline of a joke that everybody else already
1:12
knows. Everyone else is in on that. Fortunately,
1:16
my client walks in, and I am just saved before
1:19
I have to say anything else. At the time, I was
1:22
probably 25 pounds heavier than I am now. And
1:26
I don't know if that's why she said that to me.
1:28
Like I get it. I have no idea. And I may never
1:32
know, but I've thought about that off and on
1:36
for the last two years, her statement and what's
1:40
behind that. Hey, It's Evet. That was a real exchange you just
1:57
heard in the salon. I had no idea which client
2:02
my coworker was talking about. All I knew was
2:05
that the woman had lost a significant amount
2:07
of weight and somewhere during that process,
2:10
my coworker decided she liked her before. A little
2:15
bit better. I don't know whether the client had
2:19
become unkind. I still don't know what... She
2:23
was like before she lost the weight or what else
2:25
had been happening in her life. Or really how
2:29
much of the story I hadn't heard. What stayed
2:34
with me though was the way my co -workers said
2:36
it as though it was a fact. People lose weight,
2:40
especially women, and then they become off -putting.
2:44
I mean, I know water boils at a certain temperature.
2:50
I know that Jon Stewart is brilliantly sharp
2:53
and quick -witted. And I know Aretha Franklin
2:57
is the greatest soul singer that has ever lived.
3:00
And if you don't know that, you need to do some
3:03
homework. Anyway, those are facts to me. But
3:09
when my coworker said, you know what I mean?
3:13
Is that we both understood this predictable consequence
3:17
of weight loss. I was completely puzzled. I keep
3:24
returning to that conversation because it seemed
3:26
to be more about one woman's weight loss or personality
3:31
change. I started to think about what happens
3:35
when someone changes in a way that disturbs how
3:38
other people have come to know them. Someone
3:43
loses weight and then they're suddenly considered
3:46
arrogant. Or someone becomes more confident and
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then they're told that they are difficult. What
3:54
about when someone sets boundaries and then they're
3:57
accused of being selfish? Sometimes a person
4:02
stops accepting a role they've played for years.
4:06
And then the people around them experience that
4:09
as a problem instead of growth. It also made
4:13
me wonder whether people were reacting to who
4:16
we've become. or to the loss of the person they
4:20
expect us to remain. Labeling theory is a sociological
4:25
concept that helps me decipher this. In this
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episode, I want to explore why change can alter
4:32
not only how we see ourselves, but how other
4:34
people see and treat us. I also want to look
4:38
honestly at the roles we sometimes learn to play
4:41
so we will be accepted. And then what happens
4:46
when we no longer need or want to play those
4:49
roles. Because sometimes when people tell us
4:55
you've changed, what that really means is you're
4:59
no longer behaving in the way I expect you to.
5:04
My coworker took a complicated human going through
5:07
a significant change and reduced her to she used
5:12
to be so nice and now she's kind of a bitch.
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That statement, it doesn't leave much room for
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anything else to be true. The change was identified,
5:23
the explanation was decided, and the woman was
5:27
given a new label. And that's where labeling
5:30
theory becomes important. Labeling theory was
5:34
originally developed to explain how certain behaviors
5:38
and eventually certain people come to be identified,
5:42
such as normal, acceptable, problematic, or outside
5:47
of the rules. One of its central ideas is that
5:52
a label doesn't merely just describe someone.
5:55
It can influence how others interpret that person,
5:59
how they respond to them, and eventually how
6:02
the person understands themselves. In other words,
6:07
the label becomes a lens. And then once that
6:11
label is in place, Another familiar tendency
6:13
can strengthen it, confirmation bias. We begin
6:18
collecting evidence that supports what we already
6:22
believe about the person. If they disagree with
6:26
our assessment, well, then that's more proof
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that we're correct. If they say no to us or maybe
6:33
don't return a call quickly enough, it's all
6:36
added to the proof file to support our theory.
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The bummer of our quick assessment is that we
6:44
don't often reopen that file and ask whether
6:48
we named it correctly in the first place. Now,
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don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that a
6:54
person's behavior is always imaginary or that
6:57
every judgment is made unfairly. I'm very judgy.
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I have an entire podcast on this. Okay. And for
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sure, sometimes people are very inconsiderate.
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and they can change in ways that make them harder
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to be around. Labeling theory asks us to notice
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what happens after we decide what that behavior
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says about who someone is. What information do
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we continually notice? What information do we
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dismiss because it doesn't go along what we labeled
7:33
them as? And then How much space do we leave
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for that person to behave in ways that contradict
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the identity we assigned them? I don't know.
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Once someone becomes a difficult one, even neutral
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behavior can begin to look problematic. I think
7:53
once someone becomes the selfish one, a reasonable
7:57
boundary can look very self -absorbed. Or once
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someone becomes the emotional one. A legitimate
8:05
reaction could be treated as unnecessary drama.
8:10
And then once someone becomes the nice one, anything
8:15
less than constant warmth from that person can
8:18
feel like a personality change. That last label
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matters in this story. My coworker may have known
8:29
this woman as a kind client who just happened
8:31
to be heavier. But it's also possible that without
8:35
consciously realizing it, she had combined those
8:39
qualities into one identity. The nice overweight
8:43
client. There's a related sociological concept
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called master status. This describes an identity
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or characteristic that becomes so dominant it
8:56
begins overshadowing everything else we could
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know about a person. Humans do this with weight,
9:04
age, race, illness, disability, occupation and
9:10
money, relationship status, and then family roles.
9:17
The examples like, he's the successful one. She's
9:21
the responsible sister. He's the one with the
9:24
drinking problem. She's the heavy one. She has
9:28
a pretty face and she's super nice. but she's
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the heavy one. The labels we give people shape
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what we expect from them. If I label you easy
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going, I begin to expect you won't ever object
9:44
to a plan or idea. It's human nature. We do it.
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If I label you strong, I may not offer you support
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because I don't think you need it. If I label
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you the caretaker, I could become uncomfortable
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when you need care. And if I label you nice,
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I may treat your warmth as an obligation instead
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of something you freely choose to offer. Then
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when you change, I may not experience that change
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as you becoming more fully yourself. I may think
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of it as you breaking an agreement. And the problem
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with that is that You didn't agree to any of
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it in the first place. You probably didn't even
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know the agreement existed, which can become
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quite a problem in the relationship. Maybe my
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coworker's client was especially accommodating
10:45
in the past. Maybe she had been agreeable, apologetic,
10:49
or careful not to inconvenience anyone. Maybe
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she had learned that being warm made it safer
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to take up space in a body that she knew other
11:00
people might judge or not accept. Maybe none
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of that was true. But if my co -worker had come
11:09
to expect a certain kind of warmth from her,
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then even a small change could have felt extreme.
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A more direct answer, a firmer opinion, or one
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appointment during which she wasn't especially
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talkative. might have seemed like evidence that
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she wasn't the same person any longer. Now, here's
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the fun part, ladies. Research on gender backlash
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has found that women are often judged negatively
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when they behave in ways that conflict with expectations
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that women should remain warm, agreeable, and
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accommodating. I know, shocking, right? A woman
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who has become more assertive may be considered
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abrasive. A woman who speaks confidently may
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be seen as arrogant. And a woman who stops over
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explaining herself may be suddenly described
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as cold. Remember back in 2008 when Hillary Clinton
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became emotional while answering a question about
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how she stayed upbeat, even though she was falling
12:16
behind Barack Obama in the presidential race.
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Four years and even after, Clinton was portrayed
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as controlled, cold, and calculating. After that
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question was asked of her, her voice broke and
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her eyes kind of welled up and she showed some
12:37
vulnerability. That gem Rush Limbaugh accused
12:42
her of emotional blackmail and described the
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moment as calculated. Personally, I saw humanity
12:51
and strength. I thought her willingness to show
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emotion helped cut through that persona of someone
12:58
who was never affected by anything. What interests
13:03
me is how the label followed her either way.
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When she remained composed, she was perceived
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as cold. When she did show emotion, the emotion
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was dismissed as manipulation. That's the buying
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many women face. It seems like there's a very
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narrow range of behavior that some people are
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willing to interpret generously. A woman can
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behave in two completely different ways and have
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both treated as proof of the same opinion people
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already hold about her. Which brings me back
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to the client in my coworker's chair. A person's
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growing confidence can challenge other people's
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expectations on how they should behave. This
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doesn't prove that every criticism directed at
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a confident woman is unfair. It does raise a
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possibility worth considering though. What if
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the quality my coworker had interpreted as bitchy
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was confidence instead of anything negative?
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What if this woman had just stopped performing
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smallness? I don't know, perhaps losing weight?
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changed how much space she felt permitted to
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occupy, or how often she apologized for voicing
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an opinion, or even how much responsibility she
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accepted for keeping everyone else comfortable.
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That might have felt like freedom inside of her.
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But from the outside, especially to those who
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preferred an earlier version of her, it might
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have looked like an attitude problem. And those
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reactions can be especially confusing when they
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come from family and friends who have known us
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for years. But remember, just because they've
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known us the longest doesn't mean they know us
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the most accurately. People who have known us
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for years can be accustomed to a particular version
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of us, right? The relationship develops a familiar
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rhythm. One person may be treated as the expert
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and does most of the talking. while another person
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asks questions and listens. That's the rhythm.
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That's familiar. Maybe someone keeps peace or
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makes everyone laugh. And then over time, we
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just become accustomed to whose thoughts get
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the most room. As someone becomes more confident,
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they might contribute in ways they didn't before.
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that change in their voice or their presence
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can interrupt the relationship's familiar rhythm.
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I've noticed this in my own life and it never
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happens dramatically. It may happen when I'm
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expressing an opinion or sharing something I've
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read or seen or simply trying to add to the conversation.
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I've experienced many interruptions. You know,
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people adding in their own thoughts before I
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can even get mine out. are people telling me
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to hold on and then redirecting the topic back
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to themselves. Or they say they have to go after
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they've been the one speaking most of the conversation.
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And I've wondered whether this happens more now
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or whether I just notice it more now. Going back
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to school, losing weight, getting older. Those
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may have given me the reasons to reconsider what
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I accept in a conversation. I'm more aware of
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whether I've been given the capacity to finish
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a thought now than I've ever been before this.
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Before I changed, I rarely asked for the space
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or the acknowledgement or even the respect I
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deserved. I don't think I believe I deserved
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it. even thought much about it. For much of my
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life while I was more overweight, I learned to
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be liked by being funny, smart enough, very friendly,
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but mostly not too assertive. Now, okay, don't
17:27
get me wrong, I can be aggressive. I become especially
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outspoken about injustice when it affects other
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people. I'm more willing to push back, speak
17:41
up, and refuse to tolerate discrimination or
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rudeness towards others. But I was less likely
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to do that for myself. Today I ask myself, how
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much space have I been giving up all along? When
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I just listen back to the words that I said that
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I used to be friendly, funny, smart enough, I
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stop at smart enough. What is that? That's an
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interesting choice, isn't it? Enough for what?
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And who was deciding when I reached the limit?
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Those words make me wonder how much I actually
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edited myself before anyone else even had a chance
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to respond. I have to take responsibility here.
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How often did I decide that something I wanted
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to say could wait? or that it would be easier
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to let someone else just keep talking. This is
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where labels become personal for me. Over time,
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we can absorb the people's expectations into
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our own understanding of who we are. We begin
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making decisions around them and eventually we
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may even carry on enforcing a role even when
19:00
nobody's asking us to. See, that's our responsibility
19:04
to recognize that. If being agreeable has become
19:08
part of how you understand yourself, disagreeing
19:12
can feel uncomfortable before you've even opened
19:15
your mouth. It's just a thought. You'll anticipate
19:20
how it'll sound. Will someone be disappointed?
19:24
What will they think of me after I say this?
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You may have a perfectly reasonable opinion and
19:33
still feel the urge to soften it. or even apologize
19:36
for it. Or keep it to yourself, never say it.
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But because I do value being warm, I value humor,
19:46
I value kindness. Those qualities matter to me
19:50
and I want to be true to them. But I also want
19:54
to understand how much of my friendliness has
19:57
become sometimes tied to wanting people to accept
20:01
me. Both things can exist in the same interaction.
20:07
I can truly enjoy someone and be interested in
20:10
what they're saying, but also hesitate to ask
20:13
for the same interests in return. I think that
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for many years as an overweight person, I believe
20:22
I needed to bring a little extra to every interaction.
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Being funny and attentive felt like a way to
20:30
make people more comfortable with me and more
20:33
accepting of me. I can recognize that bargain
20:38
now and feel compassion for the version of me
20:40
who believed she needed to do that. The difficulty
20:46
of that bargain comes when we feel permitted
20:49
to use only that part of ourselves. If I'm always
20:55
the funny one, what happens when I'm hurt and
20:58
don't want to make a joke. If I'm always the
21:02
understanding one, can I say something upset
21:06
me without immediately explaining why the other
21:08
person meant well? That's a big one for me. If
21:13
I built my identity around being easy to get
21:16
along with, how do I respond when getting along
21:20
means swallowing something I needed to say? As
21:24
I change that role, I still want to consider
21:29
my tone, my timing, and how I treat the other
21:33
person. You can't just walk around being an asshole.
21:37
I don't want to be that jerk simply because I've
21:40
become more assertive. So it's a check and balance,
21:46
right? I want to honestly look at my own behavior.
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If I interrupt someone, I want to notice. If
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I go on too long, I want to make room. I want
22:00
the people I care about to feel heard. And in
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return, I want to be included in that same consideration.
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And just so you know that I'm really considering
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this, an interruption by itself, it tells us
22:17
very little about someone's motives. People get
22:20
excited, distracted, pressed for time even, like,
22:24
hurry up. Hurry up your ballerina story. Dance
22:27
around the subject. Dance around the subject.
22:30
What interests me is the pattern. Whether we
22:35
regularly have the capacity to contribute and
22:40
what happens when we ask for it. The difference
22:44
now is that I rarely hold back my opinion. I've
22:49
learned that what I have to say deserves the
22:51
same expanse I spent years giving to everyone
22:54
else. When someone interrupts me while I'm saying
23:01
something important or trying to make a point,
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I'm more likely to stop them and say, hang on,
23:06
wait, let me finish. Because I've learned that
23:10
I'm not required to disappear. This also includes
23:16
spending a lot of time worrying about whether
23:19
everyone likes me. It used to bother me deeply
23:23
and I would adjust so that they would change
23:27
their mind or that they would like me. But now
23:30
I ask a different question. When I find out that
23:34
someone didn't like me, my question is, was I
23:38
being myself? Was I kind? And was I present?
23:44
If the answer is yes, and someone still doesn't
23:47
like me, I can live with that. The same change
23:54
happened around attraction, how I think about
24:00
it. If a man doesn't find me attractive, I no
24:05
longer treat that as information about what I
24:08
need to change. I don't need to become quieter,
24:12
thinner, less opinionated. more agreeable or
24:17
more like whatever he prefers. His preference
24:21
belongs to him. That's fine. My life, my body
24:26
belongs to me. I don't have a shield. Rejection
24:33
can still sting. I mean, I'm mostly still human.
24:40
I'm simply saying. that someone else's approval
24:44
no longer gets the final vote of who I am authentically.
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Maybe some people will experience that as a change
24:52
of my personality. Maybe some people will say
24:55
I'm more outspoken, more difficult, or less accommodating
25:00
than I used to be. They are right. I have changed.
25:06
My change shows up. and that I'm less willing
25:10
to abandon myself so that someone else remains
25:12
comfortable in the version of me they already
25:15
knew. And thinking about that brings me back
25:20
to the co -worker's client. I wonder whether
25:24
she had been going through some version of this
25:26
herself. Because all I had was the label, right?
25:30
I established this. My coworker never described
25:34
the specific interaction or told me what her
25:39
client had said or done. She only gave me the
25:41
conclusion about who the woman had become. The
25:45
question that may have opened the story back
25:48
up was what exactly changed? I should have said
25:51
that. Because that question separates the label
25:55
from the behavior. She's selfish. That judges
26:01
her character. She canceled our plans without
26:04
telling me. That describes what happened. She's
26:09
arrogant. That's giving her an identity. But
26:14
she interrupted me several times while I was
26:18
speaking. That identifies a behavior I can examine.
26:25
Stesificity creates room for reflection. We can
26:30
consider what we've done. and then understand
26:34
how it affected someone else. Apologize if necessary,
26:40
and then choose differently next time. But a
26:44
character label makes the accusation much larger.
26:49
Instead of responding to what I did, I'm left
26:52
defending who I am. This matters when we're labeled
26:57
and when we describe someone else. When I hear
27:00
myself thinking of or describing a person as
27:04
difficult, dramatic, selfish, arrogant, I have
27:09
the choice to pause and ask, what did they actually
27:13
do? Is this a pattern or just one moment? Did
27:18
their behavior cause harm or did it challenge
27:20
an expectation I actually had of them? Can I
27:26
describe what happened without deciding what
27:28
kind of person they are? That's very difficult.
27:33
In that salon conversation, the label stood in
27:36
for the answer. Certainty replaced curiosity.
27:41
Curiosity gives us another option. We can remain
27:45
interested in what actually happened and what
27:48
context we still may be missing. You know what
27:53
I mean, right? At the time, my answer was no.
27:59
Two years later, my answer is still no, and I
28:02
think that's the point. I didn't know the client.
28:05
My coworker knew her in one setting, through
28:09
one relationship, and from her one point of view.
28:13
Yeah, one label made the story sound complete.
28:18
The conversation stayed with me because labels
28:20
can create the feeling that we know more than
28:23
we do. And I've changed in the last few years.
28:28
I do speak more freely. I do protect my place
28:32
in a conversation. And I am less willing to shape
28:35
myself around another person's approval. Maybe
28:40
that's age. Maybe that's circumstances in life.
28:44
I don't know. I just know that I've changed.
28:47
And I know that some may appreciate those changes.
28:52
Others may prefer the earlier version of me.
28:54
The point is, their reactions are information,
28:59
not instructions for how I should present myself.
29:04
And although I remain accountable for how I treat
29:06
people, I will continue to decide for myself
29:10
who I'm becoming. And I hope you do too. I'm
29:17
Evet DeCota. If this story resonates with you
29:20
and you'd like to discuss this further, you can
29:22
find all my contact information in this episode's
29:25
notes. Thank you for listening, and have a fantastic
29:29
day.