Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance3 (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance3 (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Look at me. I'm not going to hurt you.
• 0:06
  Look at me. I was rather hoping you would
• 0:14
  welcome back to a hamster with a blunt.
• 0:16
  Penknife the Doctor Who come true podcast.
• 0:18
  We are here for parts. Free of snake dance.
• 0:23
  By Christopher Bailey the second story of season 20 where
• 0:27
  everything old is coming back. Even if it's old from last year,
• 0:32
  okay, that was that this was the Oddity, wasn't it?
• 0:35
  This was the worth. Yeah this is an effective who
• 0:47
  cares. What exactly I think it made up.
• 0:50
  I've been Kinder made a big impression despite coming bottom
• 0:53
  of the Doctor Who magazine season survey for season 19
• 0:58
  because people couldn't get The snake.
• 1:01
  Well, that is one of those stories.
• 1:03
  Yeah, but absolutely Pros over time.
• 1:06
  You can go from the bottom to the top.
• 1:09
  Because now, everyone back, what lot of people, a lot of people
• 1:13
  and sort of prestige writers and things like that, hold Kinder in
• 1:17
  high esteem in this area that they absolutely.
• 1:20
  And the fact that time flight didn't come bottom, came rather
• 1:26
  than the top it be cast revolver in the ratings for At that
• 1:30
  Year's in summer 21 it did. And you know, who voted out
• 1:38
  tonight? I voted for resurrection of the
• 1:40
  Daleks top 21 because as a child, I didn't case of
• 1:46
  androzani was too grown up for me as an eight-year-old.
• 1:48
  I was not ready to appreciate that.
• 1:51
  Till I was much older, it's too grown-up for me.
• 1:53
  Now, what are ya? But that's how it goes.
• 1:59
  This is The okay, as we were saying in part to Doctor Who in
• 2:03
  this area is completely eclectic from week on week you get
• 2:07
  completely different styles of story and storytelling and that
• 2:12
  I think is the strength of the Davison era.
• 2:16
  It doesn't always come off and sometimes you get, because we've
• 2:19
  got to Studio band stories this year, which is state dance
• 2:24
  Obsolete and Terminus. And what is a terrific?
• 2:30
  Piece of television, and what is not.
• 2:33
  Well, I suppose it is Enlightenment studio and I
• 2:35
  suppose it is, it's always really, isn't it?
• 2:37
  Yes, yeah, there's no location footage from that.
• 2:39
  So, we've got three big, big stories that are not out of the
• 2:43
  studio. So, which is, I think about
• 2:46
  season, 20? Okay, I think it is the weakest
• 2:49
  Davison Year and that is because I don't like arguing.
• 2:52
  I don't really like Terminus, and I don't like the Kings
• 2:54
  demons. No, but I do admire a lot.
• 3:00
  I feel like every story's got a good solid like science fiction
• 3:04
  idea - hum and Eric's award is kind of exploring different ways
• 3:10
  of telling stories. Yes, I feel like in 21.
• 3:13
  He's kind of got a Mastery on how to present that
• 3:17
  dramatically. Yeah.
• 3:19
  Mmm, whereas here there's there is a lot of expedition.
• 3:22
  A lot of corridor wondering, a lot of, you know, and Terminus
• 3:25
  is the center of the University. Think?
• 3:28
  Yeah. And it's a lot of it.
• 3:29
  Feels clunky and unsayable and you can see the actors
• 3:35
  struggling with it. I think particularly in Terminus
• 3:37
  Terminus. I think suffers because it
• 3:39
  should have been a big ball z. Exciting dramatic Doctor Who
• 3:45
  story and the director and no one quite gets that, it's sort
• 3:50
  of operatic. And so it's done on a doctor
• 3:53
  whose scale and it's so feels delusion.
• 3:55
  Eric because yeah, the veneer costumes are very For us.
• 4:00
  Yes hmm. But you know what very rich is
• 4:02
  such a great director of Blake's 7.
• 4:05
  Yeah. Clearly there.
• 4:06
  What she was there. Yeah.
• 4:08
  And all she had a terrible time and it I've been cheated a big
• 4:14
  article about it in one of the Doctor Who yearbooks in the 90s
• 4:19
  about her experiences on it and how just it destroyed her
• 4:23
  because she'd never brought a production in over budget or
• 4:29
  over time And boat this just happened on this Doctor Who
• 4:32
  nothing worked, right? But there was talk as well.
• 4:35
  Wasn't are of shelving Enlightenment.
• 4:37
  Obviously, the Dalek story of this season did get you.
• 4:39
  So there was all kinds. It was chaos.
• 4:41
  Yeah, I mean, they lost I'm no, no, no.
• 4:45
  This just industrial action. I think the BBC and so, did I?
• 4:49
  Yeah, the older I get, the more strikes annoy me.
• 4:54
  And I mean, Sarah Sutton was upset because she didn't get to
• 4:57
  do her last seen on Last day and she had to come back and all of
• 5:03
  it is just chaos behind the scenes this year.
• 5:06
  I think, though the fact that something as quality as this
• 5:12
  emerges. Yeah.
• 5:13
  Or Enlightenment against all. The odds.
• 5:16
  Maybe that's a testament Undead I think.
• 5:18
  Yeah, it's lots of levels. It is really clever story.
• 5:22
  I once had a very interesting conversation with two gentlemen,
• 5:25
  about that one, you know, did you really have to look that up?
• 5:29
  Up. But I like what?
• 5:31
  I see. What I've got a question for
• 5:32
  you, but let's press play, okay? Right last we'll get going.
• 5:35
  Okay, so check out those in get Gorman.
• 5:39
  Okay, thank quatre trois Deux off.
• 5:43
  We go. So my question, is this a news?
• 5:46
  We kind of talked about Kindle. Yeah, we thought about something
• 5:49
  else obviously, well, which is the superior story.
• 5:56
  Whoo, I think it's probably this one for me, I think because it
• 6:02
  just works a bit better. There are things I absolutely
• 6:07
  adore in Kinder. The relationship between the
• 6:11
  doctor and Todd is just beautiful.
• 6:14
  And Peter Davison is never better than when he's got a Liva
• 6:18
  bird with him. Just about to say to you people
• 6:21
  really kind of rate him and Polly James, but I just don't
• 6:24
  think it's got holes. Candle to him in the right there
• 6:27
  is Hughes in. No, I think they're both very
• 6:29
  good but him and their issues aren't just really really good.
• 6:33
  And the seams in Tegan's head are wonderfully weird and that
• 6:36
  third Cliffhanger. But yeah, yeah, it's the full of
• 6:40
  everything, which I don't know what it means or what it's
• 6:44
  about, but it's really cool and stylish and wonderful.
• 6:50
  I've got like a little like, a succinct answer to my own
• 6:52
  question, you know, I think a hinder, Is probably the better
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  story as in. It is bolder.
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  It's more experimental and sort of the direction is really a
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  powerful. God like it if I'm out there but
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  snake dance is a better Doctor, Who story?
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  Yes, that's it. And it has enough plot to fill
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  four stories. It has a linear narrative.
• 7:22
  Corridor wondering, you know, like we've got Sort of the
• 7:26
  doctor locked up, he's locked up for the majority of this episode
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  but his heart free, of course. Yeah, but he's still finding
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  things out and he's still active and he's not passive while he's
• 7:37
  in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah yes.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Yeah, it's again, it's a nice piece of design with the sort of
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  slanting up our bars and things like that.
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  So it feels like, you know what it is, but it also feels part of
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  this culture. It's different to what you would
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  do here. And again the the scenes on film
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  with dojin are really weird and creepy and odd until it's like,
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  it feels weird for going on to fill.
• 8:25
  I'm as well. Yeah it's like that out it.
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  Well it's the BBC ping of if you're on film you're outside
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  and so this is the equivalent of being outside and it feels hot
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  and like a desert. That's part of staircase.
• 8:41
  At the back of the same. It does feel like it goes off
• 8:43
  somewhere that if anybody possibly, yeah.
• 8:45
  Hmm. And they keep almost going up it
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  as yes. And then he stops the hell is
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  she drinking that green stuff? What dread to think?
• 8:58
  So, I, when I realized your room was empty, I very nearly raise
• 9:01
  the alarm, but I didn't This is great.
• 9:31
  But it's very much, a mum with a teenage boy, whose moods are all
• 9:35
  over the place. I was talking with Marc.
• 9:39
  Doggett Marc Doggett, Mark do deal it out Fury from the deep
• 9:43
  and how that's a very strange story because it has very story,
• 9:48
  very naturalistic work, setting, and a very naturalistic
• 9:51
  relationship between the harrises and it feels like we've
• 9:54
  stumbled in on a bit of a soap. You know?
• 9:56
  Yes. But with mutant seaweed coming
• 9:59
  out trying to get one and I feel like this is a good one to
• 10:04
  compare it against because you have a domestic relationship
• 10:08
  between Tanana and Lon. Yeah.
• 10:12
  But it's so much more interesting to watch because
• 10:14
  it's a little bit heightened, it's a little bit period drama.
• 10:17
  It's the dialogue is a little richer and I think that's what
• 10:21
  dogs who does it is. Best it takes like
• 10:23
  relationships, we understand mother and son?
• 10:26
  Yeah, it doesn't. Present them as a soap opera.
• 10:28
  It presented takes it to a different level.
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  Yeah. And it's just an and I think
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  actors respond better when it is a little above naturalism, you
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  know. Yeah.
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  Hopefully yeah. Particularly in this era.
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  I think because they're all theater actors and they're all
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  used to being a little a little more height and a bigger
• 10:53
  performances they respond well to What what sort of the risible
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  you turn Doctor Who acting or sci-fi acting?
• 11:03
  But you have everything completely right Thor for a
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  story like this. Sometimes you have great
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  contrast as well because I wasn't really interesting.
• 11:12
  When you've got someone giving like a very theatrical turn and
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  so on, give it a very naturalistic turn in the same
• 11:18
  thing, which is exactly what you have here with ambra land chela.
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  Yep. Jonathan Morris is playing
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  everything subtly John, John Carlson is playing it.
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  Just that little bit bigger. I still believe they're from the
• 11:34
  same world you know. Absolutely.
• 11:36
  Because you meet people like that you meet academics like
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  that. Can I say as well?
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  Jonathan Morris is so pretty. Hey, it's really long today.
• 11:46
  Mind you mind closing that pretty right.
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  But yeah, I think he's got those kissable lips on television, a
• 11:50
  lot. Yeah, and he's got a Swagger and
• 11:54
  ice is Mama. I want to be a right now, go and
• 11:57
  lock the door. In this episode.
• 12:13
  Yes, the key with back to the celestial toymaker.
• 12:20
  I want to love it when he talks about how unsophisticated the
• 12:23
  lock is, but it means you got it works.
• 12:25
  Yeah, screw driver. Anyway, no.
• 12:31
  What you say, I'd when that got destroyed in the visitation God,
• 12:34
  I love the Sonic Screwdriver. See now, he's got a used bits of
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  string and paper clips and things, you know, which is what
• 12:42
  he wanted his doctor to do. So I think everyone is when
• 12:46
  you're in bringing them to doctors and he pulls apart that
• 12:49
  lamp to, oh, yes, I love that. Don't know much about art, but I
• 12:55
  know what I like. And we, like snake dance.
• 12:58
  Hmm, But the and so this is your, I do think this is your
• 13:02
  typical episode 3. I the doctor, it's the yet.
• 13:07
  Exposition. It's Chase and capture the plot.
• 13:12
  Doesn't really progress March from nose to 24.
• 13:17
  And there's not a lot of Chinese Fielding in this episode either.
• 13:21
  I'll see, they're saving her for the climax.
• 13:24
  Yes. But this is where fantastic
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  actors, you know, really come into play, and I still think
• 13:34
  it's effortlessly. Watchable.
• 13:35
  Mmm. Yeah.
• 13:37
  What John class had just stood there with dullness like the
• 13:40
  double take of, I've just spotted what you've got.
• 13:42
  Oh my God. That's yeah.
• 13:45
  Did you know what? Right?
• 13:46
  And when we come back to him in a second?
• 13:47
  Yeah you can see I don't know. Maybe it was before is there's a
• 13:53
  there's like one second of him before they said car and you can
• 13:57
  see him smiling. And then he said it goes really
• 14:00
  serious lucky Scattered. Yeah he is all about the
• 14:10
  Trinkets and the wealth and having things that no one else
• 14:14
  can have. And even when like the situation
• 14:16
  is clearly a lot Sinister than he's been led to believe, he
• 14:21
  still Bewitched by the fact that he that The Prestige of having
• 14:25
  all these, you know, trinkets exactly and it's the mara giving
• 14:30
  him what he wants. So they saw the mara Can get the
• 14:36
  great great Crystal. It's all about sort of appealing
• 14:41
  to your baser nature and his base nature is the objects and
• 14:46
  trinkets that he thinks no one else understands and a lost and
• 14:50
  a really valuable and beautiful. And so because he just he's
• 14:54
  desperate for those, they can manipulate him and get what and
• 14:58
  Tegan the T, gemara can get what she wants, what we do need to
• 15:02
  watch the rest. Now you've explained every go
• 15:04
  I've just planed it. Sorry for everyone.
• 15:06
  Thank you very much. That's very, very warm.
• 15:08
  But you've got to talk about a naturalistic performances,
• 15:14
  Davison and Jonathan Morris. Yeah, not sure that would work
• 15:19
  as like a doctor. Companion relationship over a
• 15:21
  long period of time because they're both.
• 15:24
  No one's going to bring the drama like yeah.
• 15:28
  No, but this is clever with the Punch and Judy show the whole,
• 15:33
  yes, tells the story of Medusa and the snake is absolute.
• 15:39
  God, everyone had haircuts like that.
• 15:41
  All God's is the accurate car. It is.
• 15:44
  This funny coming after the, the hurdy-gurdy seen in Arc of
• 15:47
  infinity, would like the kids. Yeah, Mmm.
• 15:50
  Yeah. And this is not an era where you
• 15:52
  get lots of kids, but suddenly, you've had them in Castro Valley
• 15:54
  over, you've got them in our capability and here, You know
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  what? I left my pageant.
• 15:58
  She shows a bit Sinister, you know.
• 16:00
  So yeah, lots of violence. I like when it goes girl, Ray
• 16:06
  Ferris snake but that was still very much part of the seaside
• 16:17
  holiday experience. That all these children were
• 16:19
  having, my grandparents had just moved to Weston super mare at
• 16:24
  this point. So we would go and stay with
• 16:26
  them in Summer and going watched Punch and Judy, and go for
• 16:29
  donkey rides and go for a ride in The Marvelous.
• 16:32
  Duck Tardis Adventure, right? So we had one of those things
• 16:37
  where you put your money in and the Tardis would move up and
• 16:40
  down and you'd sit in it and it will be making the Tardis noises
• 16:45
  while you were there. And okay, baby music.
• 16:48
  So you go and you have your own childish for a bit.
• 16:50
  Yeah. Mmm.
• 16:51
  That was on the pier at Weston-super-Mare.
• 16:54
  So again, this is adding Extra detail, isn't it?
• 16:59
  Yeah, and again it's yeah. And again it is called refining
• 17:03
  the past. Yeah, it's a children's story,
• 17:06
  all because be good or the mara will come and get you and it
• 17:10
  will come and eat you, which is which is, it was like, Williams,
• 17:14
  things like that. But that's yeah, that's good.
• 17:19
  And so the myths and legends of grown up because people have
• 17:23
  forgotten what the actual Fret of the mara was so it becomes as
• 17:29
  a story to scare children. It's not Doctor Who.
• 17:33
  Yeah, my Judy. You know, I think we mythologize
• 17:36
  most now and Doctor, Who is Doctor Who, yeah, which is weird
• 17:41
  because he was never like that. But like power the doxa which
• 17:48
  we've just had that recently. Yeah, absolutely fabulous.
• 17:51
  May I say, I mean, that mythologize Doctor Who in many
• 17:54
  ways, didn't it? Yeah.
• 17:56
  Well, that will comes out of the Doctor Who fans of the 90s and
• 18:00
  the new adventures and then not wanting the doctor.
• 18:05
  Once in the doctor to be a proper hero like you get
• 18:09
  everywhere else, and so, making him a lovely gods.
• 18:12
  And I vengeful time, Lords and forgetting that actually.
• 18:16
  Lee, he's a bumbling eccentric amateur and that was what
• 18:19
  appealed and then obviously then that gets taken up by the new
• 18:23
  series because you have the time or and so he does become this
• 18:26
  figure and I think in some ways you lose something fundamental
• 18:30
  about the doctor and planned. All of this, I do, it's
• 18:34
  difficult one to know, I don't disagree.
• 18:37
  You actually I think the how they've kind of mythologized.
• 18:41
  The docks are in the new series compared to this sort of Tramp
• 18:46
  ish improviser. Yeah, it was more impressive
• 18:50
  when when he wasn't at the center of the universe and yeah,
• 18:53
  just of Time Lord society. And the lonely God, and all of
• 18:57
  this and scraped through with 51 percent at the Academy of second
• 19:02
  attempt, that's what I always liked and the facts that He
• 19:14
  liked the doctor when I was growing up because the doctor
• 19:16
  wasn't like anyone else. I knew, I Tom Baker's doctor was
• 19:20
  not like any adults. I knew Peter Davison is doctor
• 19:23
  was not like any adult I knew, but I loved him for that and he
• 19:27
  wasn't interested in all those things that adults do.
• 19:30
  But he just wanted an adventure and what you wanted to be
• 19:33
  dragged along, and you like the Curiosity and everything else.
• 19:37
  But you know what I loved about the conclusion of Jody
• 19:40
  Whitaker's Journey. He was that they'd gone through
• 19:44
  this whole, you know, oh yeah. She was the template for the
• 19:48
  time in all societies and she was found in the Lost
• 19:52
  desolation, all this mythologize e and actually that all gets
• 19:56
  forgotten about a of the doctor, it's like actually I don't give
• 19:58
  a shit about that and the conclusion that is drawn is
• 20:01
  she's a very kind person. Yeah.
• 20:04
  Who has lots of friends and I just love that I love that
• 20:09
  because actually none of that really matters.
• 20:12
  An extra light to the doctor, but actually it doesn't have a
• 20:17
  Max of freeing that creature at the end and that's the last
• 20:21
  thing she does when she was young.
• 20:23
  I was like, yeah, that's a perfect way for a perfect
• 20:27
  whereas when David Tennant went out in under tire and had an
• 20:31
  entire chorus and the whole yeah it's exploding around at all.
• 20:35
  Good grief, it's just too much. I know what it's like Peter
• 20:40
  Davison is it that you can draw parallels?
• 20:42
  So Pete Davidson ultimately dies in a moment of kindness saving.
• 20:46
  Yes. Exactly saves Perry.
• 20:48
  Yeah, and there was the lovely juxtaposition of yeas, carrying
• 20:53
  the doctor in the same way, the doctor carried Perry, at the end
• 20:56
  of caves of androzani, which is not what is happening in, so
• 20:59
  they could only go off on a tangent.
• 21:12
  Low Tea Garden in the slightest and she's like, I do want to go
• 21:16
  into the Tardis. Fucking grumpa she ever was.
• 21:21
  That's perfect. I love that people were so
• 21:28
  worried about what chip no would do with the characters of Ace
• 21:31
  and Tegan and he was absolutely spot-on with both of them.
• 21:36
  What speaking of somebody and I'm talking about you now as
• 21:40
  somebody wear this, This doctor and companion with such and in
• 21:44
  tell this story. Yeah.
• 21:46
  Integra part of your childhood, when you saw Davison and
• 21:49
  Fielding together and power, the doctor that Mazda tapped into
• 21:52
  something in you that that broke many, to be honest.
• 21:56
  I was just And it's just that moment where he said when she
• 22:01
  said I missed you and he just said I missed you too and I
• 22:05
  never thought it was just none of that.
• 22:07
  Didn't that all rang true. Yes and its surrounding and it's
• 22:12
  not that one each other as well. Yeah exactly.
• 22:14
  And you're looking older I can say the same about you.
• 22:20
  That's exactly it. And it's Yeah, it was just just
• 22:26
  perfect. What's interesting is I feel
• 22:28
  like there wasn't a huge amount of nuance in their relationship
• 22:32
  back in the 80s. But what's happened is is
• 22:36
  they've developed a friendship over the last six years and that
• 22:41
  is that was just beaming out of power.
• 22:43
  They could bring that yeah through all of that and yeah it
• 22:48
  did all start here, you know. Yeah.
• 22:50
  It did and if they hadn't have had this and I know And Janet
• 22:55
  Fielding was a companion for a long time and she was there from
• 23:00
  early 1981 to early 1984. And as a child, that was a long,
• 23:06
  long stretch to have have someone in the Tardis and she
• 23:11
  will. Yeah, it was I kind of forget
• 23:16
  because I because, when I, my Tardis team was always the
• 23:22
  doctor Romana and canine Ramana to, that was.
• 23:25
  And I despair, I spent my childhood in the Davison era
• 23:31
  thinking about Tom Baker, because I loved his doctor so
• 23:35
  much and he was the doctor to me.
• 23:37
  He will always be the doctor to me.
• 23:40
  And so, It was what Pete Davidson always register.
• 23:44
  You was the doctor but it wasn't till later on.
• 23:47
  Again, this is coming back to the era sort of years later when
• 23:52
  I was getting the videos that I had.
• 23:55
  I had some season 21 on video and the five doctors but I
• 24:00
  hadn't realized how much this era had meant to me until I came
• 24:05
  back to it at the time. It was just new Doctor Who and
• 24:09
  it wasn't. It wasn't my doctor.
• 24:13
  Or whatever. But absolutely Peter Davison was
• 24:15
  my doctor as well. He, he was my first new doctor
• 24:19
  and so that makes a big impact. So I think I spent sort of the
• 24:26
  three years he was in the role kind of dismissing him because I
• 24:31
  I was thinking about Tom and John and the older doctors
• 24:34
  because you were exploring the past as well as the new stuff as
• 24:38
  well through dwm and things. So Peter got short strip.
• 24:43
  But when I saw the stories again in sort of the early 90s, I I
• 24:49
  remembered what I'd loved about it at the time.
• 24:53
  I am through doing hamster, I have some opinions of mind that
• 25:01
  were firmly, entrenched have done a 180.
• 25:04
  Some haven't that's what? But you know what?
• 25:10
  The two biggest are my opinion of Janet Fielding as Teigen.
• 25:16
  Yeah. Sylvester McCoy as the seven
• 25:19
  dogs, huh? And I really enjoy both of Them.
• 25:22
  Now in a way that I didn't use it before and that's through
• 25:25
  hearing other people's experiences or other people
• 25:28
  revealing layers that I wasn't. And I think when it comes to
• 25:34
  Janet Fielding her performances in big finish where they tap
• 25:38
  into the humor of the character brilliantly and Janet Fielding
• 25:42
  gets the play the character. Yeah.
• 25:44
  As a very funny character and I'm like I could have done with
• 25:48
  a bit more of that. Yeah.
• 25:49
  And well yeah well this is it. I'm Jen.
• 25:52
  Is still reacting against season 17 still.
• 25:55
  And he, Peter Davison is a funny man.
• 25:58
  And his comedy timing is magnificent but he won't let him
• 26:04
  be no funny. He's witty and when he does get
• 26:09
  to do that in front of your spectacular lie, when got the
• 26:12
  say, where the walls, not right? And then there's the accident
• 26:16
  and things like that. Actually off those lies and he's
• 26:19
  wonderful, it's so good to watch.
• 26:22
  Ouch, and then if you want to run greatest, sorry what a great
• 26:26
  example of how funny she can be go listen to time in office,
• 26:30
  which is the story set on Gallifrey web Davis and base is
• 26:33
  taken up the mantle of President.
• 26:36
  Of Gallifrey post, the five doctors and Janet Fielding is
• 26:39
  Tegan. Is the power behind the throne
• 26:41
  and she is comedy gold. Oh, they've gone quiet.
• 26:51
  That's so I was just trying to work out where we operate.
• 26:55
  Yeah, we I don't think we should.
• 27:03
  I don't think we all have companions that mean something
• 27:08
  to us. So we can't always explain why.
• 27:11
  And sometimes it's just because they were there for a long time.
• 27:13
  When we were growing up and you look at Lucy and this is Herrera
• 27:20
  and these star, her her people and and the same, I'm around the
• 27:26
  same age, they meant a huge amount to me.
• 27:29
  And if you spoke to people my age, Age.
• 27:31
  This is, this is a wonderful tortoise team, the doctor,
• 27:34
  Nyssa, and Tegan great. And we only get four stories
• 27:40
  with them as the Tardis team on their own.
• 27:42
  Really know because I came into the series post or Riot the end
• 27:47
  of the Classic Series. Yeah, so my first team when I
• 27:51
  was watching it live for I'm like, this is my team is tenant
• 27:55
  and tight. Yeah, I remember watching that
• 27:58
  season guy and this is my daughter.
• 28:00
  This is it. Yeah alright alright Lovers.
• 28:02
  And that's why they'll never be bested for me.
• 28:04
  I don't think no because we have yet we have an ideal Tardis
• 28:10
  team. I think in our heads and as I've
• 28:12
  said, it's the doctor lalla Ward and canine for me that will
• 28:16
  always be what if I think of Doctor Who that's, that's it,
• 28:22
  that's who they are. And yet, if you just said to me,
• 28:26
  oh yeah. Him from Casanova and her from
• 28:27
  the Catherine, Tate Show, beautiful utterly reliable.
• 28:32
  Yes, they might be returning to our screen sometime soon.
• 28:36
  I believe they might be strong. Oh, here we go.
• 28:40
  Oh, Quick conversation between Eric's award and Christopher
• 28:48
  Bailey. But how do we end this as At saw
• 28:52
  point. This is screams.
• 28:54
  All right, but you know what, right?
• 28:59
  This is the worst where she just goes.
• 29:01
  No, don't is that Battlefield? Part 1 kill them, kill them that
• 29:13
  I always thought that was really disappointing Cliffhanger to a
• 29:17
  very disappointing episode of daughter, but that's a different
• 29:21
  story. Worries about to be beheaded and
• 29:23
  as long as stop and and then they do it in the visitation,
• 29:28
  the very next story and even says, oh no, not again.
• 29:33
  What's Batman was funny, Bailey has a track record now of about
• 29:41
  five Cliffhangers that have worked really well.
• 29:44
  So that's what went wrong here because that clipping her in
• 29:48
  Kinder where they're going to open the box.
• 29:51
  Oh yeah. Yes, incredible is so tense and
• 29:55
  so brilliant in a way it shouldn't be.
• 29:59
  And I love the resolution to that as well.
• 30:01
  Yeah, no. Because the, yeah.
• 30:03
  And then something happens. Yeah, it's really well sighs.
• 30:07
  Yeah, well, whereas this one is just it's busy.
• 30:12
  It's a pause in the action that they have to make, so they
• 30:15
  create for skippity. Yeah.
• 30:16
  Exactly. And it's like, there's because
• 30:19
  there hasn't been much action in this episode You need a bit of
• 30:22
  something, but in this era the pop to the part 1 and the part 3
• 30:28
  Cliffhanger will resolve the next day.
• 30:30
  So it didn't necessarily have to be a huge Cliff Hanger or a big
• 30:35
  Cliffhanger because you're not bringing people back in a week.
• 30:39
  They're only got a date away so always tends to be.
• 30:42
  I think the part 2 Cliffhanger that is a An interesting one or
• 30:48
  a different one. I might be wrong about this.
• 30:50
  I haven't thought this through and now I'm trying to figure
• 30:52
  things out. I think what the Cliffhangers
• 30:54
  are in this. It what's the part to
• 30:56
  Cliffhanger to modern day it is Mordred turning around in the
• 31:04
  Tardis. Oh, that's right.
• 31:06
  You special doctor? That's it.
• 31:08
  Yeah. All right.
• 31:10
  Matter - I'll give him up, Infinity is the doctor being
• 31:13
  disintegrated in the termination machine, which is being
• 31:17
  executed, isn't it? Yeah.
• 31:19
  Yes. That's good.
• 31:19
  Terminus. I have no idea.
• 31:22
  So I can't remember. That's all.
• 31:24
  Oh, I think it's the dreary like, oh, now I'm going to kill
• 31:27
  you or something like that. Yeah, but part 2 of
• 31:30
  Enlightenment is turlough. No falling into space, which is
• 31:34
  super creepy and weird. Yeah, that is a brilliantly
• 31:37
  fine. Yeah, I think so.
• 31:39
  They're saving part one. You always get a good
• 31:42
  Cliffhanger because it's a part 1 and accept Arc of infinity is
• 31:46
  the doctor being shot by the next Doctor Marvel?
• 31:49
  That's not okay, that's a part 3 of snake.
• 31:54
  Dance. Cliffhanger, you know he's going
• 31:56
  to be all right. Yeah, I mean, I will point at
• 32:00
  the Hinchcliffe here and say that was the Off a cliff hangers
• 32:03
  like that. Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:04
  I mean those are memorable and they worked hard on those and,
• 32:08
  but it was not the era of resolutions Jesus Christ, but
• 32:13
  the 80s ones might be more intermittent like the classic
• 32:16
  Cliffhangers, but when something remembrance one and razani three
• 32:24
  of shock one, you know, when they hit was a big, yeah, around
• 32:27
  the face and exactly, and not any column.
• 32:32
  Baker one's really I think other than fur voids to I think is
• 32:37
  superb. But again, it's because they
• 32:40
  what the woman in the isolation for yet, the half.
• 32:43
  Yeah, yeah, I love, but is once they've been go?
• 32:49
  Well, we've got some have a close-up of the doctors face.
• 32:51
  You, you don't get the interest in Cliffhangers then, and when
• 32:55
  you've only got one is one Vengeance of our office.
• 32:59
  I'm cutting. Yeah.
• 33:01
  Now When yeah, and when you've only got one Cliffhanger story,
• 33:05
  you want to make it a really good one.
• 33:07
  But attack of the Cybermen is kill them.
• 33:09
  Kill them now. No, no, no.
• 33:13
  To talking toys, always him. Falling dogs.
• 33:16
  Is hired by Chase, which is really good.
• 33:18
  That's a great Cliff Hanger. What's the time?
• 33:21
  Lash 10. Yeah.
• 33:23
  Yeah. Big Journey.
• 33:24
  Dr. Most people. Departs with a scream
• 33:31
  microcephalic lat. A state to state so that was
• 33:35
  memorable. But for all the wrong reasons,
• 33:38
  what the fuck that polystyrene bust of Colin Baker was, I've no
• 33:43
  idea. Well I never thought the
• 33:45
  precognitives of my own death would be so affecting.
• 33:49
  That's what's he's a sick. He's a sick puppy and he is
• 33:53
  alright, we will just have a bust of then we'll fill it full
• 33:55
  of blood as well. Yeah, that will really make me
• 33:59
  laugh. They should have ended with Joe
• 34:01
  Belle. Come To Parry that would have
• 34:03
  been false kariya the resolution for more in keeping with
• 34:07
  everything else that? Yeah.
• 34:10
  Looks I I mean we we've got all around the as on this episode we
• 34:15
  have I think there's a reason for that and that is because
• 34:17
  they pass the free. There is a bit run on the spot.
• 34:20
  However, I would do or say though, I think you've got
• 34:22
  interesting characters. Pete and Jack were an
• 34:24
  interesting mystery. Uh-huh.
• 34:26
  It's holes through interesting dialogue.
• 34:28
  So I don't think It suffers in the same way that your Stout it
• 34:32
  it's not and and this is not an action-packed story, this is not
• 34:37
  an action story. This is a four-story and so
• 34:39
  obviously you're going to get time when you need to explore
• 34:43
  this culture and let the doctor work things out.
• 34:46
  And I think that's absolutely fine.
• 34:48
  So I think Solaris about the last episode is the first half
• 34:51
  of the last episode, they literally all preparing for the
• 34:54
  climax like come on through the streets.
• 34:56
  I'm going to set up the climax. That's great but you know it
• 35:00
  goes back to what Gary Russell said.
• 35:02
  In the day of the Daleks commentary that I've heard just
• 35:06
  the other day. In fact, I listen to that all
• 35:07
  four episodes in one go Gary. There we go.
• 35:11
  You must have enjoyed that I did.
• 35:13
  I'm very enjoyed that. But he says Exposition doesn't
• 35:16
  have to be a bad thing because you need to let people know
• 35:20
  what's going on and sometimes you can't show it.
• 35:24
  No, I don't think it's necessarily A Bad Thing.
• 35:27
  It can be delivered in an awkward way.
• 35:30
  Exactly. And I don't think, This episode
• 35:33
  delivers it awkwardly it flows and you're finding things out
• 35:37
  steadily. It's not all handed over and the
• 35:39
  doctor just reading out the book, or whatever, or the
• 35:44
  moment, I always think of, as one of the worst bits of
• 35:47
  exposition in anything ever is in the film star Gates has been
• 35:52
  action run around, but it's a little film, and I didn't like
• 35:55
  the serious much. I've, uh, sorry anyone Stargate
• 35:58
  fans out there, but always remember coming out of the
• 36:00
  cinema and saying, well, that was a, Full of action with two
• 36:04
  minutes, where they walk around, some cave paintings, which
• 36:07
  explains the whole premise of the ball.
• 36:09
  And then they do some more running around and things
• 36:11
  explode and then it stops and that was clunky and awful.
• 36:15
  And there are so many examples in Doctor Who of where that
• 36:19
  happens, but I think it's far more subtly done here.
• 36:23
  I think people think I'm mad. I think the best Exposition
• 36:26
  scene in Doctor Who takes place in the pirate Planet episode 3,
• 36:30
  right. And you've got about, At seven
• 36:33
  characters in The mentee had cave.
• 36:36
  And they all and the doctors going, right?
• 36:39
  You take this bet you say this and everybody's contributing and
• 36:42
  it's full of jokes. So it's really funny and It's
• 36:45
  really informative. But isn't a see because it's
• 36:47
  coming from all that different people.
• 36:49
  Douglas Adams is a genius. I guess they want to do.
• 36:51
  Exposition. Yeah.
• 36:53
  And you're getting different viewpoints on the same pieces
• 36:56
  and see everyone piecing it together.
• 36:59
  And the worst one is Thomas children.
• 37:02
  Sorry. Doctor Who by PowerPoint.
• 37:09
  I'll cut it there.