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Ashley Jones Lee: The CFO's Secret to Bold Growth- Storytelling · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken a lead or parked on their extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if they face challenges or doubt along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: These impactful stories will leave you quite motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold job.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be created.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in, get ready to be tried.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the bold lounge.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: This morning I have Ashley Jones Lee.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: She is the CFO of Uptempo.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Ashley.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Lee.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Super excited to be here with you today.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I thought if you'd want to introduce yourself in the sense of like we're lots of things other than the CFO, right?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So from the perspective of that, is there anything you'd like to add to your intro?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say that I'm a CFO by trade, but I'm a mom first.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have two amazing children, Jamison and McKenna.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And as a parent, you know that what you do outside of your workday comes first.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm a mom first.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a lifelong learner, and I am someone who's super passionate about empowering and lifting others up.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to get into your bold world and understand kind of your bold path.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll start with your definition.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is your definition of being bold?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's it look like for Ashley?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think for me, it's embracing the potential of failure, understanding that no decision is final and taking the action anyway, right?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Despite those risks.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then also understanding that you can make decisions that are solid based on a mixture of emotion and data.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've always heard keep emotion out of decisions, right?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's something coming up in finance that I was always taught.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the best decisions I've made over the course of my career have really been made in that mixture of emotion and data.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a important point.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I hope to get into that because I think the gut feel and kind of going with your intuition and realizing that, you know, there are things that can draw you.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had some great conversations this morning about people making decisions that were, you know, really were about their family, were about their relationships over their career.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the best decision they've made because it led to them actually being even 10 times more successful, right?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when was the first time you remember really embracing the potential of failure in your life?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm embarrassed to say it was much later in life, right?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would I would say honestly, you know, as I mentioned, coming up in finance and just the way that that I was taught, I was taught with that old school mentality of like the quote, keep your head down and do your work and just do what you're supposed to, whatever that means, right?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I would say it was probably when I decided I was going to make a case for why I deserve to be in a different role and I wasn't just sitting quietly and waiting my turn, um, knowing that, hey, I could fail.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really big step.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's something different than I've ever done.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's okay if I fail, right?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I won't ever succeed if I don't take this leap.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say that was back in 2012 that I decided to make make that pivot and make that case for myself.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately it set me on the path I'm on.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a decision well made.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So did was there emotion in that as well as data, or kind of when you made that decision, what went into that?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say emotion was playing against me at that time, right?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: The the the creeping in of what if, you know, what if you do fail?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Will, you know, will your reputation take a hit?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of all of the things that could go wrong.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's an extreme type A, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: What could possibly go wrong?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was if I were to make a pros and cons list, that would be on my cons list.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I decided, you know what, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna listen to those negative thoughts and I'm gonna do this.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that the emotions were a bit of a roller coaster through that decision, both good and bad.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Did you always set out to be a CFO?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is that always what you wanted to kind of be in finance?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Were numbers your thing?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or like how did your path in this world that you're in now come to be?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to be a forensic psychiatrist initially.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, that was the path I was headed on in college.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I took an elective, and it was um like a death and dying class, something really morbid, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a case that we were discussing, and there were children involved in the case.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a three-year-old half-sister at home at the time, and that was about the age of one of the victims.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I decided there's no way I could stomach young people, right, in these in these vicious crimes.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I decided to give finance, you know, the family trade a whirl.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And here I am.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Both my mom and dad were in finance.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, well, there must be something to it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I tried it and loved it, and here I am.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So from the perspective of figuring things out or sleuthing, obviously, there are definitely probably analogous things that you do in finance, obviously, albeit not the same as forensic psychology, but there's psychology in finance.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just talk about that for a second.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Where are the connections between psychology and the the world of numbers and how we run our businesses and what we do?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think a lot of it has to do with engagement and education, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, the average person who's not in finance, when they start hearing numbers, their eyes probably glaze over.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: They they're half asleep, right?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think just really it's understanding how to relay this information that is not interesting to someone, to them, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do I, how do I meet them where they're at, get them engaged in the conversation and bring them along with me.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of that has to do with getting to know someone and understanding their motivators, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: What motivates them?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why are they here besides a paycheck, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things, if you understand that and you can tailor your message to that, then I think you'll have a lot of success.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a huge parallel between the two.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of communication in finance.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: People, I don't, I think they may underestimate kind of the emotionality of it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the connection to the the tactical and the strategy, but also just being able be to be a good communicator, to be able to, like you just said, relay the information in a way that's interesting.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And probably someone who is a novice can approach it and not feel like, oh, that's over my head, or I don't even understand a word she said, you know, that's Greek to me, or whatever it may be that people, you know, I'm just speaking from my own experience with some of the some of the conversations that I've had around finance.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think also in general, we may also underestimate what we know, you know, or what we can actually get and be educated from, you know, some of the financials that people share.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about the communication piece, what are some of the tips like if we extrapolate this out to other industries and other areas, like of being able to relay complex information that may not be as approachable for many?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you make it approachable and engaging?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think trying to find real-world examples, and you know, a lot of people don't realize this, but the modern CFO has to be adept at storytelling, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody, I think I've said this numerous times, probably to you before, nobody cares about your spreadsheets, right?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be able to tell the story in a way that's engaging.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think one of the one of my favorite questions when I'm educating people to ask is who likes getting paid?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Raise their hand.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's gonna raise their hand.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And right, you just did.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's how you can truly bring someone in is I always start with an engaging question, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's something like that, or I think I had an example one time about who's ever failed at a New Year's Eve resolution, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went down a path of, you know, analyzing calories to have a treat, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it really just depends on your subject matter, but I think the key is asking that engaging question that everyone can relate to that has nothing to do with the X's and O's of finance.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing with that is you're also opening yourself up to being human, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my career, like the CFO, their job is very like to the point, and they have a job to do and they're gonna do it.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the decisions they make can be ones that you might not understand at different levels of the organization, those types of things.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I mean.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's sometimes it feels probably very lonely to be a CFO, I can imagine, because people don't understand kind of the other things or the other directives, or maybe even understand all the all the variables in play.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's probably the one thing that people don't understand and should understand about the role of a CFO?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say that it's equal parts art and science, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people just assume that you've got a calculator and like you're just focused on math.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually people that's a common misconception.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Finance is you don't have to be good at math to be good at finance, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Finance is more application of principle and strategy.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that, you know, people just assuming that you only make decisions based on numbers, that's that's really not the case.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that goes into strategy, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: The role of the CFO is equal parts, short, you know, managing short-term and long-term objectives of the organization or the project, whatever your scope is.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're both looking, you're looking backward to inform where you want to go when you're looking forward.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really understanding details and the big picture and being able to weave between the two seamlessly.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's quite a complicated role in that, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are very focused on either detail or big picture.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And to succeed as a CFO, you have to have both.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like a mom.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very much so.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because I I always say this becoming a mom made me so much of a better CFO.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is that that balancing, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like my kid's throwing a fit.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do I give them a piece of candy now just to make them quiet?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or and then I deal with the long-term ramifications, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's there's also those decisions where for finance, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we need to save$100,000 this month for say, do I cut someone now?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: But then the cost to the business is more in the future.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's very balanced between short and long-term goals.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's your book, honestly.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So from being able to like the analogies of that and coming up with a cool title, but I really think that's the art and the science, the strategy, the short and the long term, the looking forward and looking back and kind of like, do I do something instantly today that needs to be done that's a short-term kind of fix, but it's not going to fix it the long term.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's some fun in that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it also the other part that, you know, in meeting you and kind of learning about your journey and the things that you do and the expertise that you have is just being able to tell a story, you know.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I remember one person in our group saying the CF no, you know?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because the CFO is always the person that says no, but that's that's kind of a probably a bad rap, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but we've probably all had our experience with it.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But what I love about you is that you're human, you know, like, and of course all CFOs are human, but you're like you're open about it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is what happens, and here's the meltdown, or here's this, or here's that, or like here's what I learned.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like being able to see all sides of the role.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's been really cool to be able to see that through you, through your journey of the stories and and the things that you tell.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things you talked about was the power of storytelling, which I think is getting a lot of uh away um attention these days, I think, in the business world and on LinkedIn and your own personal brand and being authentic.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you hear it over and over, but like, what does it really mean when you're telling your story and you're able to kind of go back and forth between your professional world and your personal world?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, it you can't separate them.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's wanting to step into that, how do I start telling my story?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because it just doesn't feel natural when you first start doing it, at least my my experience.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the things someone can do to start telling their story, which then leads to authenticity and leads to that personal branding?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I have to say, I have to say, you know, I had the same struggle, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: When I was always, oh, this is professional Ashley on LinkedIn.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very different than personal Ashley.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, back in my 20s, let's be serious, it was very different.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't be posing about our 20s.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, as I've become older and wiser and less of a shot taker, I would say that, you know, you have you can't be afraid of judgment is the number one thing.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was always afraid that, oh, if I put this personal story out there or, you know, divulge something that someone's gonna judge me for that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, right, you just have to be comfortable enough in yourself that you're okay with that because online trolls are everywhere, even on LinkedIn, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also say, in terms of content creation, you do what feels natural to you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It feels very natural to me to write about the parallels between motherhood, my children, and lessons I learn in the workplace because they're very similar, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You're just dealing with young people versus older people, but humans are humans.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would have to say that you will find your voice and you will find that area that you're comfortable writing about and just own it, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And don't expect overnight success.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the most valuable lessons I heard when you know starting to write my content was don't expect a million engagements right away.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take time and people are gonna have to learn to, you know, to see who you are and how you write.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it will come.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that happened.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so my that would be my advice, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Go with what you're comfortable with and don't expect overnight success.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And don't be afraid of judgment was your very first world is very judgy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: We know that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can be judgy too.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'll be like, I can be judgy, but at least I know I'm doing it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're judging me right now, aren't you, Lee?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not judging you, I promise you.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is a no judgment zone podcast.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: But that is something it's it's weird, especially like you said, the professional and even some workplaces don't want you posting personal things, or I think over the last year, I think it's lessened a bit, but like this doesn't belong on LinkedIn, this belongs on Instagram or TikTok or whatever.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And people like having some type of LinkedIn police moment about what's appropriate or not appropriate, where we're just talking about our lives, which are personal and professional lives, are one.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're not, you know, they're connected.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think being able to step out of that and like just know that you can block people and that you can you don't have to be all out and let everybody follow you.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can like you can start out small, you know, from that perspective what your what your shell is that you're coming out of, but people get to know you through your story.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then they start to relate to you and connect to you, which leads to them knowing you, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then being able, whether it's your own business or whether you know it's your role that you have, and you know, maybe you get that next role from people kind of seeing kind of oh, she's real, like she's the real deal.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: From that perspective, and then being able to understand to find your voice and then realize it's not overnight.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little about the not overnight.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, people measure success in life differently.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when it comes to telling your story, like what are some of the things that you look to, like, oh, that was successful or that was helpful, or I think I reached a lot of people, and it could be social media, not social media, but how do you define success now versus how you would have defined it 15 years ago?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say 15 years ago, I probably had a pretty warped sense of what I thought success right was.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that had to do a lot with recognition, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what um, you know, how others perceived me.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And now I look at success, especially as it pertains to content or how I carry myself in the workplaces.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I can help one person find their voice or I can set a positive example for someone I've made a positive impact in their life, then I've been successful.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as it pertains to content, I had a stranger reach out to me after I posted about doing a mommy and me trip with my kids, saying that he doesn't have a good relationship with his daughter.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's grown now because he he didn't do that.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't prioritize her and he worked all the time.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he loved seeing that I'm not gonna go down that path and make that same mistake.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that really touched me.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, it it reminded me of how different things were 30 years ago, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But also it it also reminded me that I'm going down a path that I won't regret in 20 to 30 years.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: It might be hard now to find that balance when my kids tugging on my arm at five o'clock, come play with me and I've still got a meeting, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I won't regret it down the road.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I am, I am doing the best I can and I'm triaging, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think we talk about that especially as parents, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is everyone needs different attention times at different at different places in your life, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: There are different seasons in your life.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to give more to your kids versus work, and that's okay, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have to go through life triaging.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that was a really positive example of how my content touched someone.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I actually had someone reach out to me and ask who writes my posts for me.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't know if I should take this as an insult.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you saying that I'm not smart enough to write these posts?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or if I should take that as a compliment that these posts are so well written, right?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had more than one person ask me that and I was like, wow.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then someone else said, thank you for giving me the confidence to be able to start posting on my own.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say those are really three examples of how I've considered myself successful recently.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you've worked on that.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that wasn't something like even a couple of months ago that you're like, I'm confident, I write the best posts.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know if you'd say that now, but in the sense of like the success of your post and being able like for people to connect with them.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's also one of the measures when it comes to the social pieces are people connecting, whether did it did it cheer them up?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did it did it inspire them?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Did it like them think, huh?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what am I doing with that?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or what where am I getting kind of caught up and not making a move?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, mine are really focused on really coming in pretty hard and saying, like, are you being bold enough with and living the life that you want to live?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and if you're not, like, what's holding you back and thinking about those things.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you know, people are giving you that feedback and being able to connect with you.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had people ask me, like, what filter did you use for that photo?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, actually, there was no filter on that.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can see my wrinkles, just lean in.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gorgeous, darling.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's why.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, well, that's a couple, then I guess, you know, from that perspective.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, as people figure out and and you use that word triage and triaging where your attention goes.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about that, because I think uh as we kind of work and have a home life and relationships, I mean it's it's hard to figure out how to triage.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have tips for triage that you can share that maybe you also use in the CFO world?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say a lot of it comes down to intuition and really focusing on the nonverbal cues and behaviors you're getting from your team, the organization, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, if you know someone, you can when you're talking to them, even if it's on Zoom or Teams, you can tell when they're stressed or anxious, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: They might need a little more attention.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, if someone's really quiet, you know, in a normally really talkative environment, maybe they weren't feeling comfortable.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I typically pay it very much attention to those nonverbals.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I reach out to people afterwards.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to home, it's with kids, it's, you know, when when I can never give them enough attention and they're very clingy and mom, mom, mom, I know that they need more mom time.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I, you know, I know that you're very big on wellness and making sure you're taking care of yourself.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell when I get, I call it crunchy, but when I get like very just snappy with everyone, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I I know that I am talking to people in an in a non-pleasant manner.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I need to take some time for me.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are some of the triggers across the different areas of my life that I've started to notice.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say it's really intuitive and it just comes from knowing, knowing your audience and knowing the people in your life.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you get older in your career and and in life that the, you know, we talked about the professional Ashley and the personal Ashley, that they become one more so and that it's it's okay for them to be seen together versus kind of how they were.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that comes with time and just kind of settling into your role?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you think it takes to kind of have that comfort level in your own skin?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it, yes, I think it does come with time.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of it's born out of necessity.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think COVID probably certainly accelerated that for a lot of people.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Suddenly everyone's working from home and you see toys in the background and everything else, right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I also think a lot.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It has to do with your organization.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned earlier, right, that some organizations don't want you posting on LinkedIn or they don't want you posting personal items.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that some organizations aren't as friendly when it comes to accepting your whole authentic self, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: They only, you know, they only want to know the person who's doing the work.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so you really have to find your perfect fit, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're someone who doesn't want to bring your whole self to work, then fine.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Find a corporation that doesn't expect it.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned is not everybody can work everywhere.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our companies, our fits, just like we have our friends and our tribes, right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: That applies to companies as well.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a combination of feeling comfortable in your own skin, but feeling comfortable at your place within the organization and knowing the cultural expectations of the organization and that you're aligned there.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, you've heard the saying around friends, a reason, you know, they're in your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like a reason, like you're learning, you're learning what to do, what not to do, a season, like it's a real nice experience, and there's like a give and take of learnings and growth and evolution.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then the lifetime, there are things that just stick forever.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Some people stay in an organization for 30, 40 years.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what are some indications uh within organizations?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, I've worked for some great organizations, but it gets to a point where like, I don't think it's a fit anymore.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just it it was maybe a season moment or a reason.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've had them both, you know, from that perspective.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are some things that people can know when it's like those moments?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I should probably be thinking, like, is this still a fit?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you may find out it is, but maybe you just need to be in a different role within the same place, or you know, have a different team or those types of things.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Any ideas in the sense of what we can look out for?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's always engagement, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And do I have a lack of engagement?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Am I feeling misaligned or disconnected from the organization's mission or my peers or my team?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's about that feeling because to be honest, you're not going to give your best at work or at home, right?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or anywhere if you're not engaged and aligned with the direction that the company, the friend group, family, et cetera, is headed.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say that misalignment is probably the first clue.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then when the bad outweighs the good, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Similar to a relationship, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: If there's more bad than good, probably time to move on.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all have bad days.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: We all have days where like, man, I do not want to sign in today.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it happens to the best of us, no matter where you're working.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when when that happens more often than not, the bad outweighs the good and you're you're not aligned, then it's it's time to move on.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's the pro and con of taking action when you realize you're not engaged, there is an alignment, the bad outweighs the good in the sense of the pro of I'm going to make a move, I'm gonna start looking, I'm just gonna put my head up, I'm gonna start talking about maybe things that we could do more or less of within my organization.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I go back to you don't always have to leave, you can just have this conversation, but it has to be the right organization to have those conversations in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, we'll start with the pros because you know, from just from a positive standpoint, the pro of being able to realize it one intentionally act on it, and you know, can lead to obviously you being happy or you being more engaged, you feel you feeling more fulfilled.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Would you add any other things in the sense of the pro or the con to realizing it's not a it's not aligned and I need to do something different?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would say in terms of speaking up, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: The pro is hey, I know I've done everything now, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't just shy away and take the easy way out and leave.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to make a difference.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to leave my mark, I tried to make constructive solutions to to make myself happy.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so now that didn't happen.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's time, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: There leave no doubt.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I would say a con of making that decision.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: For me, starting a new role is equal parts exciting and humbling.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, you know, anytime you you start something new, you go from always knowing the answer to not knowing anything.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And for someone who is used to a certain amount of success, that can be frustrating.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say there's that piece.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: But also certainly you've developed personal relationships with the organization you're at, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there's you always have that work buddy or that that work friend, that work group that you confide in.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And despite best efforts, sometimes you drift apart and you fall apart.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're more sad about leaving the people than you are about the organization.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say that's probably one of been one of the cons that's rung true for me several times is leaving the people has been has been extremely sad for me.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So as we think about that, I think just helping people understand, like when they have that, you know, that moment of like, I'm just not sure it's a fit right now.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, just make it sure they spend some time with it, you know, and don't just like push it away and like, oh, five more years, I can make it and then I can retire.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just really want people to be happy in those five years and what that looks like, maybe different than where they are now, or maybe in a different role within the same org, maybe doing something entirely different.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: It it it runs the gamut.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So just don't ignore it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the caution light came on, or the you know, the light came on.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it you might want to look at not just hit the reset button.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes through exactly, yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's a great point, right?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that's when you you've got to to be introspective and you have to say, okay, what you know, is this something for me?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because you only you know the way that your mood and your your feelings cycle, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm I'm a reactor by nature, and so something happens very quick to me, right, where I react, but then I'm over it in five minutes.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm on to the next thing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know, just understanding your own thought cycle is also really important.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because if if you're like me and you normally move on from a negative thought within a few minutes, but you're still having it after a month, probably a sign it's not going to go away, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really about knowing yourself, um, that self-reflection and then having that trusted core group of advisors that you can bounce ideas off of and then ask you the hard questions, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really important when you're confiding in others and looking for that advice is making sure they're asked asking you the questions that you don't want to ask yourself.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to go in alone too.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's important.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and getting into our roles and high-level roles within organizations, sometimes it gets a little lonely.
• 28:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Finding your people, the people who can ask you those tough questions that are like, man, I don't want to answer that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to exactly make me uncomfortable.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna cancel this meeting, or whatever it is.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've all you know, so from that perspective, we're just like, okay, well, why did I cancel that meeting, you know, or why am I not answering that question?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's bold in itself, you know.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think being bold happens throughout our entire life, I hope, of just continuing to can I how can I understand myself better?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: How can I learn more?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: How can I grow and evolve?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So just understanding that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do think about the world of finance and kind of looking ahead in the industry and all the things happening, whether it's AI or technologies or just how we work and how we do the work.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think some of the big things coming in that we need to pay attention to in this particular world?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a believer in that AI will impact finance, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it will impact more of the mundane aspects of finance.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think, I think long-term financial strategic decisions will not be replaced by AI anytime soon, right?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say that there are things that that we need to be mindful of.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, number one, as we are looking to replace some of those more mundane tasks with AI and some greater technologies, I think we need to be mindful of, hey, everything's okay to use in moderation, but there still needs to be human oversight to a certain, you know, we can't trust technology, we can't trust something 100%.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's already been proven, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen a number of examples where, oh, AI is doing this, AI is doing that.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but can it make a judgment call?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think that there, there are some things that we'll need to remember as we look forward.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's a healthy balance.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And while AI is exciting, certainly a buzzword.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I can go past five posts on LinkedIn without seeing a new AI expert.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I would say that, you know, just remembering human oversight is is necessary, at least, you know, until it's refined is definitely a pointer.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would have others listen to.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think everything in moderation, right?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to something like that, I do think like it has its pros in the sense of like for me, like it's an efficiency thing at times, or but man, it doesn't, I mean, it doesn't do the same thing.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely can't uh feel and it doesn't have a sense of what we need, it can never, you know, I think inspire, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: It can never connect or relate.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these are all things only human beings can do.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we own that.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the more we think about how we can hone those skills, the more successful we'll be in whatever industry we're in.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can't connect or feel or relate or inspire or communicate, you might need to like think about what I can do more of to like be in that if you're in a place where like it is kind of the day-to-day something that can be more efficient if it's done with AI or some AI-related tool, but it it can never replace a human being, and even though it can actually put things out there, it can't think and connect and relate, and it has a weird sense of humor.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, from that perspective too, everybody like add subtle humor, it's like, oh my gosh, that's so freaking over the top.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or even some of the things I put in chat GPT, I think some of the gender biases it has is oh I don't know if you've ever done that, but like come up with a title for women in their 40s and 50s about the next stage of their career, and it's like midpoint, halfway, it's just all about dying and like you're over.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that is the stupidest AI, I think.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and no, it is, it's so crazy.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point about just human connection, I yeah, I think we're safe there, right?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because not all humans are capable of that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and yeah, so I but I think you're right.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's one of those qualities that if you've got that intuition, you've got that connection, and you can you can lead others by inspiration.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's where you get these really, really important figures in your life, right?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: We've all had them.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure, you know, a number of us aspire to be them, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're doing it with bold, right?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm it, I'm doing it with my leadership.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think as you identify those qualities and you you really practice them and hone in on them, that's what differentiates you from the rest of leaders, right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: In your industry, in your occupation, and even in your immediate circle, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're all different.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're by human nature, right?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all different, we're all individuals.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I think having those, those intuitions, the the gift of connectedness, and then that inspirational leadership, those are really important differentiating factors, especially when it comes to the leaders at the top of an organization.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what advice would you give to someone who has been taught either by their parents or by how they've you know been brought up or just even their career?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Keep your head down.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Watch your back, keep your head down, don't make noise, don't put your head up, like don't ask the question.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: To someone who's like, I think I'm ready to kind of raise my hand, be a little bolder, you know, whether it's in it's in finance or any other industry, what what advice would you give them as that first step?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do it, right?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Raise your hand.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait on your turn.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Tell people when you're ready, tell people when it's your turn.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's one of the most important lessons I've learned is that when you keep your head down, you never know what's going to pass you by.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Watching your back is absolutely important.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was my dad's thing, like every Sunday night we would eat at my parents' house when we lived in Carolina.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the last thing I love you, and then watch your back.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was always like I was saying before I left.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I was like, Okay, dad, I got it, you know.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like is I know where he's coming from now.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because because despite all of this, this positivity and this, you know, us uplifting one another, there's still those people.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's still internet trolls, they're still real life trolls, energy vampires, like we talked about, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's all of these people that that can really, you know, drain you or not have your best interests at heart.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely watch your back, but don't keep your head down because things are going to pass you by and you might grow to regret it, right?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just like I said at the beginning, part of my definition of bold is knowing that no decision is final.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to make a mistake.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you make an, if you raise your hand and say, I'm ready and you find out you're not, did you learn something from it?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: You did?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then you know what?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Take that learning and do something else.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think to me, that goes hand in hand with being bold, right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the whole premise of your leadership, your coaching style on this podcast.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, take the chance, understand that failure is an option.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if it happens, that's okay.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't, even better.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: To begin, begin.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Take that step.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast, Ashley, and I really appreciate the time.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: All information about Ashley is below.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to see you and have the conversation moving.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me, Lee.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Through the continuum of bold stories, from vulnerability to taking the leap.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: You will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others to share the journey of those with a bold.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey.