Latest / UNMASKED with Wesley Farnsworth / EP 78 - From Ego to Obedience: Mark Osborne's Journey Back to God and Marriage

Transcript

EP 78 - From Ego to Obedience: Mark Osborne's Journey Back to God and Marriage · UNMASKED with Wesley Farnsworth

• 0:00
  Most men don't walk away from their marriage in one dramatic
• 0:02
  moment. They drift.
• 0:05
  It starts with the apathy, then the loss of purpose and that a
• 0:11
  small shift that feels healthy, a gym membership, new
• 0:14
  discipline, attention that you haven't felt in the years, and
• 0:18
  suddenly this very thing that was supposed to save you starts
• 0:22
  feeding your ego instead. What happens when self
• 0:25
  improvement quietly becomes self absorption?
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  When you've been in church for 40 years but obedience feels
• 0:33
  terrifying? And what do you do when you're
• 0:37
  standing at the edge of either fighting for your marriage or
• 0:40
  banning it? If you've ever looked successful
• 0:44
  on the outside but felt hollow at home, this conversation is
• 0:49
  going to hit closed. Welcome to Unmasked, where we
• 0:58
  take off the filters and get real about faith, failure, and
• 1:01
  finding freedom. I'm your host, Wesley
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  Farnsworth, a dad, veteran, author, and a man who's learned
• 1:08
  that God does his best work in the middle of our mess.
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  Each episode we have honest conversations with people who
• 1:13
  have walked through addiction, pain, or doubt, and with
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  pastors, leaders, and everyday believers who are learning to
• 1:20
  live and lead authentically. So take a breath, pull up a
• 1:25
  chair, and let's get real. This is Unmasked.
• 1:36
  Today on Unmasked, I am joined by someone who has more than 4
• 1:40
  decades in church, mostly in the background.
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  Not because he didn't believe, but because staying passive felt
• 1:49
  safer than stepping into calling.
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  After becoming an empty nester at 48 and suffering A mild heart
• 1:55
  attack, he found himself asking God a blunt question.
• 1:59
  Why am I not happy? What followed was a fitness
• 2:03
  journey that brought him discipline and ego trap that
• 2:07
  nearly cost him his marriage, and now he leads men while still
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  wrestling with insecurity and obedience in real time.
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  Today we're talking about ego drift, obedience, and what it
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  really means to rely on the Holy Spirit when you don't feel
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  qualified to lead. Mark, welcome to the show.
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  Thank you for being willing to come on Unmasked and Share your
• 2:33
  story and trust the Unmasked community with it.
• 2:37
  Wesley, thank you very much for having me.
• 2:40
  I listen to a few other episodes and I love what you do.
• 2:44
  I appreciate that. It's my pleasure to have you.
• 2:48
  So before we get into all the details and everything else,
• 2:51
  give me a quick, give us a quick three to five minute version of
• 2:54
  your story. You know, you're 48, you're an
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  empty nester. You have mild heart attack, Jim,
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  ego, marriage, all of it on the brink.
• 3:02
  What happened? So just before, just before I
• 3:08
  turned 48, it was a Christmas. My, my birthday's in May.
• 3:13
  It was just before Christmas. I had a mild heart attack.
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  I was actually at church playing the guitar.
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  I played the guitar, started having these crazy chest pains.
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  I didn't know where that was coming from.
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  So after the service, I went and asked someone to pray for me.
• 3:27
  And they're like, what's going on?
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  And like they could see that I was in some kind of pain.
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  So they prayed for me and I still had the pain.
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  My wife's like, I'm taking you to the ER.
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  They hooked me up and, you know, they said that I had had some
• 3:42
  mild heart palpitations and that if I didn't start making some
• 3:46
  changes in my life, I would probably have a serious heart
• 3:49
  attack. So that that January, like
• 3:54
  everybody started changing my eating habits a little bit.
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  For 48 years, I never really paid attention to nutrition in
• 4:03
  any way. I was just living life and
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  eating what I thought was the right foods.
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  Never really exercised a whole lot.
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  I had a couple of phases in my life where I exercised, so I
• 4:16
  started feeling a little bit better after eating right.
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  But during that time, I think it was probably February of that
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  year, my youngest daughter moved out with her new husband.
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  And it was like, all right, now it's just me and my wife.
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  My purpose my whole life, my 40 years of being a Christian was
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  to present myself to my daughters as a godly man so they
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  could see how Christians are supposed to live so that they
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  can, you know, the Bible verse that says raise the children in
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  the way they should go. And when we, they get older,
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  they won't depart from it. It's like, all right, I, I did
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  it. I did all that I can do.
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  But now I'm 48, so not now what? I had this kind of sense of
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  aimlessness. What am I going to do with my
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  life now? Then may that year I wake up
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  like I did every morning for 20 plus years.
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  I'm a creature of habit. I poured my bowl of Captain
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  Crunch and sat and watched the news at my coffee table and it
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  it just hit me all today's my birthday.
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  Why? Why aren't I happy about this?
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  It's my birthday. I should be happy.
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  It's, you know, one of those great celebratory days, but I I
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  just wasn't feeling it. So I'm sitting there and I asked
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  God, like, why aren't I happy? I have two beautiful daughters.
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  They're both serving God. I have a beautiful wife.
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  I have a good job. I really have no issues.
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  So why aren't I happy? And I had mentioned earlier that
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  I had this small stitch where I got a little bit into fitness.
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  And as I'm driving to work that day, like that hit me in the
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  head. Oh, that little, that short time
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  that I was into fitness for a few months, I was feeling happy.
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  I was feeling better. So on my way home from work that
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  day, I joined a gym. I go all in because when I get
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  into something, I get really into it.
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  So I started going to the gym every day.
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  I started running three times a week.
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  I lived in an apartment that had four flights of stairs.
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  I would get out of breath going up those four flights of stairs.
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  A year later, I ran 1/2 marathon, lost a bunch of
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  weight, gained a bunch of muscle, and my whole thing was
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  like, OK, well I don't have any purpose now I'm going to post
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  this on Instagram and Facebook and start inspiring people.
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  That was my frame and I had God as the God is the one who led me
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  on this and in the beginning that was the right thing.
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  But then, and we can get into this later, I've always had a
• 7:05
  low self esteem. When you have a low self esteem
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  and you start gaining attention, what happens?
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  You start eating it up. Your ego.
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  If especially if you're not connected to God, your ego
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  starts eating that up And that that is exactly like I got so
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  self consumed, you know, and to learn about fitness, you have to
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  get into, you have to start watching reading podcast or
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  reading stuff and which leads to self development.
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  So I got all into all of that and I'm like, OK, I'm going to
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  start a business. I started a business on
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  Instagram, tried to start a business on Instagram for
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  fitness. And what happens on Instagram?
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  I don't know, I don't have Instagram anymore because of
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  what happened, but I started getting flooded with DMS because
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  hey, there's this guy who's inspirational, he's got muscles
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  and you know, he's every Friday he's showing off his arms and
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  his blah, blah, blah. And I was, it was just ego
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  driven started getting DMS. Well, for a lot of time, I
• 8:15
  didn't really feel like I was getting attention from my wife.
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  But you know, as we, we can get into that later.
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  But that was just how I was framing it.
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  I started flirting with some of these women.
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  It didn't get any more than flirting, but my wife found
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  them. This was after a few years of
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  this and it, it got us to that breaking point.
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  OK, you need to stop this if we're going to save this
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  marriage. And we started seeking marriage
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  counseling and I wasn't going to throw 35 years of marriage away
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  for self absorption and the attention that I was getting.
• 9:01
  I don't know how far you want to go.
• 9:05
  Wow. Yeah, no, that's, that's good.
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  You know, I want to back up just a little bit here because you
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  you said a couple of things. I want to just kind of get some
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  lay some groundwork here. You know, you've been in the
• 9:18
  church for over 40 years, but you intentionally stayed in the
• 9:23
  background. You know, you mentioned you
• 9:24
  played guitar and stuff like that, but for the most part you
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  stayed in the background. What were you protecting
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  yourself from by staying passive and staying in the background?
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  Well, the reason I stayed in the background and I have, I have to
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  go back to when I first got saved.
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  My father and mother both were Alcoholics till the age of when
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  I was 14. They turned their lives around
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  and gave the lives of Jesus and my father had a radical
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  transformation like he was never really a smiley person or he was
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  a good guy, he just was different when he was drinking.
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  Gave his life to Jesus and for the next day after he gave his
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  life to Jesus, I woke up and he's smiling at the table
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  reading the Bible and say hey, good morning son, how are you?
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  I had never remember him ever saying good morning to me.
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  I saw him throw alcohol out of the house, change his friends
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  everything. Within a week there was a a
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  church service on a Friday night.
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  They were having a what they called a revival back then they
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  gave an altar call. I squirmed in my seat for a
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  minute, and then thinking about all that, my father, how much he
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  changed, I ran to the altar and gave my life to Jesus.
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  And I was on fire for a weekend, Saturday, Sunday, I'm telling
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  all of my friends in the neighborhood, hey, I found
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  Jesus, you should find Jesus too.
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  And I remember them talking about it in church that Sunday
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  morning. Man, this kid loves Jesus.
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  He's going around telling everybody, hey, I got saved.
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  Monday morning comes around and I was always a quiet, kind of
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  timid, shy kid. I started that same thing,
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  telling all the kids that I love Jesus, and I got saved over the
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  weekend. Then I started getting made fun
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  of because I got made fun of. I was like, yeah, I can't be
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  bold about this. I have to be quiet and kind of
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  stay back. And I think because of that, I
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  don't know for sure. I've always kind of felt like
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  that was the reason. It's just easier to stay in the
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  background because then there isn't this place of criticizing
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  and getting made fun of. So maybe I don't know if that
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  answers your question. Yeah, it absolutely does.
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  So you're saying the background you're raising up your kids,
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  you're trying to you're trying to put on this not show, but
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  you're trying to to demonstrate. There we go trying to
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  demonstrate what it what it looks like to be a godly man so
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  that they have an idea of what it should look like and what
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  they should look like even in a future spouse.
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  Then your daughter moves out. Now you're an empty nester.
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  What did that do internally? What shifted when that that
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  mission, that goal of demonstrating this to your, your
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  daughter and your children at home, Now they're gone.
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  That's empty. What shifted?
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  Was it loneliness? Was there a loss of identity?
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  Boredom. You know, what was it to happen
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  there underneath the surface? I think it was a lot of those
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  things for for sure. It was, you know, with the loss
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  of purpose because that was what I always, you know, all men say,
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  you know, what's my purpose? So my purpose was to raise my,
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  raise my daughters in a Christian home.
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  Now that that was over, during that whole time where I was
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  performing in church and not really having that relationship
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  with Jesus, I was also, which, you know, it's kind of obvious
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  with what happened. I was neglecting my marriage
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  because I just had this performance mindset.
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  Every time somebody from the church called me to come and do
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  something, I went and did it instead of thinking, well, I
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  don't want to leave my wife at home, you know, should, should I
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  talk to her about this? How does she feel, blah, blah,
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  blah. I just went and did it.
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  And, you know, I think that had a lot to do with that.
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  OK, now what? I don't have to perform anymore.
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  Now I can, you know, figure out what's next.
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  And I, I had no idea. I had no direction.
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  So I guess that would be one of the questions.
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  I was directionalist. They didn't know what to do.
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  I, I ended up spending a lot of time during that time playing
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  video games. Like I said, I was a sedentary
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  person, played video games. I literally remember sitting in
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  front of, there was a show that on that I used to watch a lot
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  called Extreme Weight Loss. And I was, I was out of shape
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  during that time and I'd watched this and be eating my processed
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  food and being like, man, this is so inspiring.
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  But I never did anything about it.
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  You know, I don't, I don't know, it's kind of hard to answer the
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  question, but I just kind of, I just lost myself.
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  So it took up to that moment where it's like, OK, what do I
• 14:45
  do next? Yeah, so that brought you to the
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  point here where you're sitting at the table eating your Captain
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  Crunch, realized it's your birthday, and so now you're
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  sitting there. Talk us through that moment.
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  What did that moment reveal to you about where your heart was
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  at that point in time? Well, it's it's interesting that
• 15:16
  this is called unmask because I'm thinking this through as
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  you're asking the questions. What I said in that moment was
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  why aren't I happy? You know, as you were asking the
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  question, I'm thinking of how I'm going to answer this.
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  But what it revealed to me just now as you were asking the
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  question, that even then I was mostly thinking of myself.
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  I even prayed to God and said, why aren't I happy?
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  I didn't say, God, why don't I have a relationship with you?
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  God, why don't I feel you? Why don't I have this connection
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  with you? So I guess what it revealed to
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  me was what was about to happen, that I was going to go on this
• 16:01
  ego trip and almost destroy my marriage.
• 16:08
  Yeah, you know, that's one of the nice things about being on
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  mass is you can share those things that come to you.
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  And and I have to fear it. And so I love it.
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  So you've, you've started this journey now you're, you're at
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  the point, you've, you've had your Captain Crunch, you, you're
• 16:26
  having this realization. And so now things kind of begin
• 16:30
  to, to you start to experience some tension, some breaking, you
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  know, as you kind of start to shift your, your thought
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  processes, you know, and the gym enters a picture.
• 16:45
  So the gym started out for you as obedience, right?
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  It and discipline. It started out as something
• 16:51
  good, something that you could do to to get active again.
• 16:55
  At what point did you notice that it started shifting from
• 17:00
  something good and health driven to more ego driven?
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  The thing that I I don't I didn't notice it then, but I do
• 17:15
  remember like getting annoyed because the church that I was
• 17:17
  going to at the time. So I signed up for 1/2 marathon
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  if if you're, if you run at all people that run most marathons
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  and half marathons are scheduled on Sundays.
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  And I was a faithful member of the church.
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  I hardly ever missed a Sunday even when I was during doing all
• 17:40
  this. And that was like, I'm going to
• 17:43
  miss church to go run. So I guess that was a moment I
• 17:48
  was like, OK, things are starting to shift.
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  And then I was like, I'm going to start training people
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  one-on-one. And then I had one of the
• 17:59
  members of the church, a mentor of my church asked me.
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  I was like, are you going to train women?
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  Are you, are you going to like, are you going to use God in all
• 18:09
  of this? I'm like, of course God, God led
• 18:10
  me to this journey. But in my mind, I'm thinking
• 18:13
  about how I'm going to make money and how I'm going to meet
• 18:18
  all these people. I'm going to totally change my
• 18:21
  life from my 9:00 to 5:00 job to having this sense of purpose.
• 18:26
  I'm going to help I, and all of this.
• 18:29
  I'm saying I, I'm going to make money.
• 18:33
  I'm going to help people. I I, I, so I kept seeing how,
• 18:39
  you know, Instagram, they have their, their memes, they have
• 18:43
  the flex Fridays and you know, you do your transformation
• 18:47
  Tuesdays and all of that is, is all about you.
• 18:52
  And, you know, it took me a while to even figure out like,
• 18:55
  man, I was really only thinking about me during that time and I
• 18:59
  was neglecting everybody else in my life.
• 19:02
  Even my kids told me that they didn't see me a lot during that
• 19:07
  time. As you're going through all of
• 19:13
  these, what what lie were you believing about yourself during
• 19:18
  all of this? Wow.
• 19:24
  I've never really thought much about that until, you know, you
• 19:28
  ask this question now. I've been thinking about it for
• 19:31
  a few hours now. I think what I was believing
• 19:35
  about myself is that I was more than I ever thought I was.
• 19:40
  And again, as I'm saying all this, I keep saying I I and me
• 19:47
  and you know, a person having low self esteem that never
• 19:51
  really gave his life truly over to God.
• 19:55
  It it was all about me and I was like, man, I am more important
• 19:59
  than I always ever thought I was.
• 20:01
  So I guess the lie that I was really believing is that I
• 20:05
  mattered, and I do believe I matter now, but not.
• 20:11
  To me, a matter to God, everything that I am doing now
• 20:19
  is not for me. It's for the people that are
• 20:24
  possibly going to be helped by sharing the message of God, not
• 20:29
  my message that the message that I try to share on my podcast is
• 20:34
  not about me at all. Maybe that moment where I was.
• 20:38
  So it's all about me because I, I don't want it to be about me
• 20:43
  at all. I interview men on my podcast.
• 20:45
  I let them do most of the talking because I don't want it
• 20:48
  to be about me in any way. Yeah.
• 20:53
  And that's that's very much what I try and do here and unmasked
• 20:56
  too, is I try and make it more about the guest because I want
• 20:58
  them to be able to live unmasked and share the things that
• 21:02
  they've gone through. And I love that you do that on
• 21:05
  your own podcast. So as you were going through all
• 21:11
  of this, you know, one of the things you said earlier is that
• 21:13
  you, you were you, you at one point stood on the brink of a
• 21:20
  decision, right? You had to decide whether you
• 21:22
  wanted to move forward with your marriage or abandon it because
• 21:26
  your wife had found the messages and you basically were called
• 21:29
  out and you had a decision to make.
• 21:33
  What was the internal argument like at that point in time?
• 21:37
  I mean, we obviously know how it ended because you kind of
• 21:40
  spoiled that, but what was that argument like?
• 21:45
  Because that had to have been hard to hard to make.
• 21:50
  Yeah, it it was hard because for myself, I was eating up my ego.
• 22:00
  I was eating up all the attention.
• 22:02
  And there's that moment. Like, do do I really want to
• 22:05
  throw all of this away? But then on the other side of
• 22:08
  it, there's 35 years of marriage.
• 22:12
  There's my daughters who saw me, you know, and this was a
• 22:16
  conversation my wife and I had. My daughters still don't know.
• 22:23
  I haven't really shared any of these podcasts that have gone in
• 22:26
  like they they may. This is a discussion my wife and
• 22:29
  I had. We don't want our daughters to
• 22:32
  know what we've gone through. It wasn't, it wasn't my
• 22:35
  decision, it was my wife's and I was respecting hers.
• 22:38
  Now, now that I've started a podcast and I'm been telling the
• 22:41
  story, we decided if they find out, then we'll have that
• 22:46
  conversation. But they always saw me as a hero
• 22:52
  and I never truly saw myself as a hero.
• 22:57
  I've heard my daughter's say that you know how much they
• 23:00
  honor and respect me for who I am.
• 23:02
  But my wife is like, I don't want them to know because I
• 23:06
  don't want that shattered in them, whether it's right or
• 23:10
  wrong. And at this point it's, you
• 23:12
  know, it's up to God if they hear, if they don't.
• 23:15
  And then when that happens and they come to us, we'll, we'll
• 23:18
  have that conversation. But the internal battle that was
• 23:22
  going on at that time is like, do do I want really want to
• 23:26
  throw everything I've built in the last four years here?
• 23:31
  How I don't remember how many years, but they've been going on
• 23:33
  for a little while. Do I really want to throw all
• 23:36
  that away and go back to the way I called it at that time, before
• 23:43
  I had that moment with God? Do I really want to throw all
• 23:47
  that away for going back to a normal life?
• 23:52
  Because that's how I saw it at the time, the life that I had
• 23:55
  been living for 40 years, working a nine to five job,
• 24:00
  going to church and doing all the churchy things.
• 24:02
  That was all normal to me because that's how I'd lived my
• 24:05
  life. Do I really want to throw all
• 24:07
  that away for a normal life? And I guess the question that,
• 24:14
  you know, I don't know why. I don't know if it was all the
• 24:18
  Bible that I had heard over the years, all the messages I had
• 24:21
  heard over the years. That was like, no, you need to
• 24:24
  do the right thing. That's the, you know, I, you
• 24:29
  said I spoiled it, but that's what I chose because it was the
• 24:33
  right thing to do. Yeah, no, it wasn't spoiled may
• 24:39
  not have been the right word, but so as you're thinking about
• 24:46
  all the things that you've gone through, right, you've you've
• 24:50
  you've been brought up. You're you brought up, were
• 24:54
  brought up in the church, you know, and or I'm sorry,
• 24:58
  actually, were you brought up in the church because you mentioned
• 25:00
  your, your parents were. Yeah, I wasn't.
• 25:03
  No, I, I was after after the age of 14.
• 25:08
  Gotcha. But my, my parents did send us
• 25:12
  to Sunday school because they knew we needed.
• 25:15
  Wow, this is weird how this show works because it just sort of
• 25:19
  because I did the same thing. I made sure my daughters went to
• 25:24
  church every Sunday, even though I was part of it.
• 25:26
  My parents would send us to church every Sunday.
• 25:29
  They wouldn't go with us because they wanted us to know they had
• 25:32
  that same reference. Teach them in the way they
• 25:36
  should go. And then when they get over,
• 25:37
  they won't depart from it. Boom.
• 25:40
  You just unmasked that in me. But yeah, so my, my, my parents
• 25:45
  got saved when I was 14 years old.
• 25:48
  So I had, you know, four years of being in church.
• 25:54
  My father became a preacher and I was, I, I served under him,
• 25:58
  play guitar for him. He would go on the street and
• 26:01
  preach and evangelize that way. And I would play a guitar on the
• 26:04
  street with him. That's pretty cool.
• 26:08
  That's quite the transformation of witnesses.
• 26:11
  You know, you're going, your dad going from, I believe you said
• 26:14
  alcoholic to being saved and really an overnight
• 26:19
  transformation and then a, a, a preacher on the streets with you
• 26:24
  playing guitar by him. And now here you are as an adult
• 26:28
  and raising up your kids. And have you remained active in
• 26:32
  your church through all of this? Or was there a season where you
• 26:36
  kind of stepped away, if you will, because of everything that
• 26:40
  you were going through? I, I had a short season where I
• 26:43
  stepped away and again, my wife didn't even want the pastor to
• 26:47
  know what we went through. So we didn't even talk to him
• 26:50
  about it. I just said, you know, we got
• 26:52
  some things going on, going to step away for a little while.
• 26:55
  I was, I was playing guitar in the church, stepped away for a
• 26:59
  little while and I remember a Bible study that we went to and
• 27:04
  these were discussion Bible studies, but I don't even
• 27:08
  remember what was being taught. I turned over and look at my
• 27:11
  wife and she had tears in her eyes.
• 27:14
  I know what was being taught at the moment wasn't like some
• 27:17
  profound deep moment. So, you know, I just kind of
• 27:21
  looked. And then when we're driving
• 27:23
  home, I said, what were you crying about?
• 27:26
  She said, God told me. She's like, I just heard the
• 27:29
  words, wait and see what I'm going to do with this man.
• 27:32
  She's like, I don't know if it was God, but those words came to
• 27:35
  my head and that's when everything started started
• 27:40
  shifting. So I, I sat down for a little
• 27:44
  while and I played guitar and I could sing a teeny little bit.
• 27:47
  This was around COVID time. My the worship leader at our
• 27:52
  church decided to step down because of political issues and
• 27:57
  they left the church. I was the only person that could
• 28:00
  sing. So my pastor was like, can you
• 28:03
  be a worship leader for me? I was like, you want me to lead
• 28:07
  worship like I can barely sing and like get in front of Mike in
• 28:11
  front of people is hard enough. And now you want me to bring
• 28:16
  people into the presence of God like this?
• 28:19
  I don't I don't, I don't know if I'm going to have to pray about
• 28:22
  this. And then my daughter who was on
• 28:26
  the worship team at the time, she's like, I think you should
• 28:29
  be the worship leader. You can do this.
• 28:31
  I was just like, I don't know, I don't know.
• 28:34
  And I came back that Sunday and I told the pastor, I'm like,
• 28:40
  I'll do it. He had a guest worship leader in
• 28:42
  that Sunday. I'm like, I'll do it, but I'm
• 28:45
  going to need some training and some help.
• 28:48
  And he's like, I'll, you know, provide you whatever you need.
• 28:53
  He sent me to a podcast, believe it or not, called Worship
• 28:56
  Ministry training. I've actually had this guy on my
• 28:59
  podcast at that time, you know, podcast to me were like self
• 29:04
  development. I have watched some of the
• 29:06
  biggest podcasters, Joe Rogan, Chris Williams, and you know,
• 29:09
  the ones that everybody knows. So to me, podcasters were like
• 29:14
  famous people. And I had this podcast that I
• 29:19
  found about worship ministry training.
• 29:22
  It was one of the larger worship podcast this guy had.
• 29:26
  He was in a Church of 10,000 in California.
• 29:31
  I emailed a question, put together a set list, and he
• 29:35
  emailed the question. I'm assuming his team is going
• 29:40
  to respond back if I get a response at all.
• 29:44
  He responds back and says, hey, this is Alex, you know, I think
• 29:48
  you could do this, blah, blah, blah.
• 29:49
  How about we hop on a FaceTime call and in my mind it's like,
• 29:53
  wow, this famous podcaster wants to do a FaceTime call with me.
• 29:58
  Just the normal person like the rest of us, you know, I don't
• 30:02
  know why I had that frame of reference, but we started
• 30:05
  connecting and that that kind of leads to where we are now.
• 30:12
  I don't. I don't.
• 30:12
  I think I went on a tangent. No, that's good stuff man.
• 30:18
  So I want to go back to this conversation that you had with
• 30:21
  your pastor. You're the worship pastor, steps
• 30:25
  2 steps away. The pastor comes to you and
• 30:27
  says, hey, will you be the worship leader?
• 30:30
  Talk us through this this thought process in your head and
• 30:36
  what your prayer life was at like during that season and the
• 30:41
  conversations that you had with God as you're going back and
• 30:44
  forth and trying to decipher if this should be your next step.
• 30:48
  OK, I I guess I skipped a few spots because that moment where
• 30:53
  my wife said look and see, wait and see what I'm going to do
• 30:56
  with this man. She said she heard that and she
• 30:58
  started crying. And at the time I I had because
• 31:03
  I'm trying to save my marriage and a lot of the marriage
• 31:06
  counseling was, you know, do you guys need to pray together?
• 31:09
  I was never a person who prayed a whole lot.
• 31:12
  What I learned through fitness and and all of that was
• 31:15
  discipline. And I applied that discipline to
• 31:19
  spiritual disciplines. So before that I would wake up
• 31:23
  every morning, 4:00 in the morning, go to the gym, then I
• 31:28
  read in the Bible where you got to give God your first fruits.
• 31:32
  So like, all right, if I can get up at 4:00 in the morning and go
• 31:34
  to the gym, I can get up at 4:00 in the morning and read the
• 31:38
  Bible. So I got up and started reading
• 31:41
  the Bible every day. And you can't just read the
• 31:43
  Bible and not ask God questions. So now, now I'm talking to God,
• 31:48
  I'm praying. So I had started a journey where
• 31:51
  I'm actually like hearing from God, praying to God.
• 31:55
  That life of 40 years of, of going to church and just doing
• 32:00
  the right thing now became a relationship with God.
• 32:04
  So to answer your question about the worship leader, I knew when
• 32:11
  he asked me that question, even though I avoided it at the
• 32:15
  moment, I knew this was God calling me to step up and lead.
• 32:21
  I haven't talked about this, but when I was going through those
• 32:25
  40 years, I had a pastor asked me to be a Deacon.
• 32:30
  And I was so proud of this response in that moment.
• 32:33
  But you know, years later, thinking it back, McMahon, that
• 32:37
  was just so arrogant and wrong. I said that, you know, if
• 32:42
  everyone's a leader, there would be no followers.
• 32:46
  And I think I'm called to be a follower.
• 32:48
  I'm not called to be a leader. I don't even know what the
• 32:51
  Deacon role was at the time, but I didn't want to lead.
• 32:55
  I wanted to just follow. And he's like, well, I think
• 32:59
  you're wrong, but I, I respect your decision.
• 33:03
  And I knew and I, I, you know, after started reading the Bible
• 33:07
  and praying, men are supposed to lead.
• 33:12
  And I always saw myself, never really saw myself as that much
• 33:16
  of a man. And then, you know, so I knew in
• 33:20
  that moment when the pastor asked me to lead worship, soon
• 33:24
  as that worship leader left, I'm like, I'm the only person here
• 33:27
  that can sing. Who else does he have?
• 33:32
  And so, you know, I guess that's as I knew I was going to have
• 33:37
  to. And then when my daughter came
• 33:39
  to me and said, because my daughter has an amazing voice,
• 33:43
  she's like, I think you're the one that's supposed to lead.
• 33:46
  I'm not ready for it so. So why is it that you think you,
• 33:54
  you, you kind of dodged it there for a minute when you said, you
• 33:57
  know, let me let me pray about it.
• 33:59
  You know, you, you said in the moment you, you knew that this
• 34:02
  is what you were supposed to do, but you still kind of
• 34:04
  sidestepped it. And so that, you know, let me
• 34:07
  pray about it. Why do you think you did that?
• 34:09
  I think there was still that, that shy guy that felt like he
• 34:13
  wasn't enough, that he wasn't good enough, that I wasn't ready
• 34:18
  and that that's been the story of my journey so far.
• 34:22
  That's still continuing. Like start a podcast.
• 34:26
  I'm not ready. I had to pray about starting a
• 34:29
  podcast and I, I knew it was the right thing to do because it, it
• 34:32
  wouldn't leave me. Just kept popping in my mind.
• 34:35
  So I, I, it was that, that doubt, the doubt that I'm, I'm
• 34:40
  just not enough still that, that low self esteem, the reason, and
• 34:46
  I've been jumping ahead too much, but the reason I call my
• 34:49
  podcast the Valiant Forge because the word valiant stands
• 34:54
  out to me. Gideon, God called him the
• 34:58
  mighty man of valor. And Gideon's response was, I am
• 35:02
  from the weakest clan and I am the weakest of my clan.
• 35:05
  So Gideon's identity was in that low self esteem.
• 35:10
  But God's response to him is I will be with you.
• 35:14
  So I always try to remember that, you know, when God says to
• 35:19
  do something, and I know it's God because it won't leave me.
• 35:24
  There have been times that I've stepped out and done things that
• 35:27
  I still don't know it was God, but God used it for whatever
• 35:30
  reason. So the valiant forge, what I
• 35:36
  like to say is we're valiant warriors come to be sharpened
• 35:39
  because all of us, regardless of who you are, who you think you
• 35:43
  are, in God's eyes you are a valuable warrior.
• 35:49
  Amen. I love, I love that.
• 35:53
  So I want to go back for a second here because you you've
• 35:56
  mentioned on more than one occasion the the fact of, you
• 36:01
  know, the, the self esteem, the I don't see myself as a man and
• 36:06
  you know, on that type of stuff. Where do you think that came
• 36:13
  from, that thought process came from in your life, and how have
• 36:18
  you worked to defeat that lie and believe the truth?
• 36:29
  Well, I I know where it came from because I do a lot of
• 36:31
  studying on neuroscience and the brain.
• 36:35
  You know, because the Bible says be renewed by the transforming
• 36:39
  of your mind. And I know God designed the
• 36:41
  body. So science and all that, that
• 36:43
  they all work together. So where that comes from, I was
• 36:47
  always bullied. I was always made fun of as a
• 36:49
  kid. I was always quiet, shy,
• 36:52
  introverted, and you know, even by my own cousins and even by
• 36:57
  some of my peers, I always got pushed.
• 37:00
  I was literally the kid that got and when I say literally, I was
• 37:03
  literally shoved in a locker in my freshman year of high school.
• 37:07
  So I know that's where that comes from because I'd never
• 37:10
  felt like I was worth anything because it's a way I was treated
• 37:14
  my whole life. And I have this frame in my
• 37:17
  brain because, you know, just a little bit of science.
• 37:21
  Your body puts agps pin in something that makes you feel
• 37:24
  bad about yourself. That always reminds you this
• 37:28
  constant thing to answer the question, you know, how do I
• 37:32
  know that? I how do I how do I work through
• 37:37
  that as just remembering I'm not alone.
• 37:41
  God is always with me. When Jesus died on the cross and
• 37:46
  resurrected, he left us a helper.
• 37:50
  That helper is with me with wooden in whatever I do, part of
• 37:56
  the Trinity, Godfather, Son and the Holy Spirit.
• 37:59
  The Holy Spirit is leading me. So when I have that moment of
• 38:03
  doubt, those moments every Sunday when I got up to lead
• 38:07
  worship, I had to like, really pray.
• 38:12
  Like I, I can't do this on my own.
• 38:14
  I got, I need you with me, God. Because it's, it's more than
• 38:18
  just singing in front of people. It's leading people into the
• 38:21
  presence of God. And that has such a weight to
• 38:25
  it. It's such a responsibility that
• 38:27
  I I can't, I can't rely on my own ability to do it.
• 38:36
  Did you at any point reach out to to your pastor or to someone
• 38:44
  else that you trusted and what kind of be able to confide in
• 38:48
  them about what you were feeling?
• 38:50
  And as you kind of work through this, these feelings of
• 38:54
  inadequacy has and as you, you work to step into the truth and
• 39:01
  into the calling. For sure, yes.
• 39:05
  And The thing is, I didn't exactly reach out.
• 39:09
  It just seemed like God placed people in my life to help me.
• 39:13
  There was another it was actually the mentor to my pastor
• 39:18
  at that time that he just started talking to me out of the
• 39:23
  blue. He's a it's interesting.
• 39:27
  He's 82 years old. My father is also 82 and my
• 39:30
  father is another one of those people.
• 39:33
  You know, when my wife and I went through that, my I went to
• 39:38
  my father. He's probably the only family
• 39:41
  member that really knew everything that was going on at
• 39:43
  the time. A lot of people probably had an
• 39:46
  idea because I deleted all my social media and everything.
• 39:49
  Even now, you know, I have a podcast that I probably should
• 39:53
  be promoting on social media, but the only thing I have is
• 39:55
  YouTube because, you know, my relationship with my wife and my
• 40:01
  respect for my wife is way more important than trying to promote
• 40:04
  a podcast. So yeah, these these men just
• 40:09
  seem to happen into my life. And just as I was really
• 40:16
  starting to get into podcasting, the church that I was at where I
• 40:20
  was leading worship, it closed for for other reasons.
• 40:25
  And then we ended up going to another church.
• 40:28
  The pastor of this church became a really close friend of mine
• 40:31
  and he knew a lot about podcasting and you know how to
• 40:36
  talk. And he kind of led me into
• 40:38
  having more boldness. And it was just like this weird.
• 40:43
  And, and my, my, my best friend and I were like the Jonathan and
• 40:47
  David of the Bible. We always talk about these
• 40:50
  instances that happen. And it's like, oh, what a
• 40:53
  coincidence we have for a while. We're saying, oh, it wasn't that
• 40:55
  a coincidence. There are no coincidences with
• 40:58
  God. God puts people in your life, in
• 41:01
  your path for a reason. And you know, you need to be
• 41:05
  able, you need to be open and ready to receive from that
• 41:10
  person. Yeah, I love how he brings
• 41:14
  people into our lives at times when we need it.
• 41:17
  And sometimes we don't even realize he's doing it until
• 41:19
  afterwards. And you kind of look back and
• 41:21
  you're like, well, that was perfect timing that hindsight's
• 41:27
  2020 is kind of fun sometimes. Yeah.
• 41:30
  Well, so Fast forward to today. You're leading men, right?
• 41:35
  You're you're, you're doing all these things.
• 41:38
  You have your podcast, but at one point you said you didn't
• 41:43
  feel qualified, but called, which I can relate to 100%
• 41:46
  because I've, I am the exact same way.
• 41:50
  And a lot of the things that I am doing right now, but he uses
• 41:54
  the quality. He uses the called, not the
• 41:56
  qualified. He'll, if you're willing to step
• 41:58
  into, step into the, the season or the direction that he's
• 42:03
  calling you, he will qualify you to do what he wants you to do.
• 42:08
  So you know you're stepping into it.
• 42:10
  What does that obedience look like for you on a day-to-day
• 42:13
  basis when the confidence just isn't there?
• 42:19
  On a day-to-day basis. So just interesting.
• 42:25
  This just happened a week and a half ago after 40 years of being
• 42:31
  a Christian, going on the street with my dad while he preached
• 42:35
  and playing guitar. And I probably had the
• 42:38
  opportunity as I just wasn't open to them.
• 42:42
  And I've had a few instances like this just within the last
• 42:46
  year where I I prayed for people just out in public.
• 42:53
  But this past week and a half ago, I had a man, he was on a
• 42:59
  street corner asking for money, started having a conversation
• 43:02
  with him and it led to me asking him if he believed in Jesus.
• 43:08
  He's like, Oh yeah, I'm Catholic.
• 43:10
  And I'm like, awesome, but do you know, do you know that Jesus
• 43:15
  is with us right here right now? And I'm not saying anything
• 43:18
  against Catholic. I know a lot of Catholics who
• 43:21
  are Christian and are going to heaven.
• 43:23
  But what I, the little bit that I know about the Catholic faith
• 43:26
  is that you go to a priest to confess your sins and he prays.
• 43:31
  I, I told this man, I said, Jesus is here with us right now.
• 43:35
  I said the fact that I'm talking to you, I don't know where any
• 43:37
  of this was coming from. Remember, I'm a background
• 43:40
  quiet, shy guy and this just spirit of boldness came over me.
• 43:45
  I'm like Jesus, sorry. I mean had that Jesus is with us
• 43:49
  right now. And if you truly believe and ask
• 43:53
  him into your life and confess your sins before him, he will be
• 44:00
  Lord of your life and he can help you with whatever you do.
• 44:03
  And he said, OK, he just said, OK, I said, can I lead you
• 44:07
  through a prayer? And I led him through the
• 44:10
  sinner's prayer. I have not shared this with
• 44:13
  anybody other than my wife and my best friend until this moment
• 44:16
  right now. 40 years of being a Christian and I never had the
• 44:22
  moment where I was able to lead someone to Jesus.
• 44:26
  After I prayed for him. We hugged.
• 44:28
  I knew a church in the area. I'm like, go hook up with this
• 44:31
  church. Tell them that you know me.
• 44:33
  I sent him my name just so he would remember my name because
• 44:37
  he had a, a phone in his hand. I'm like, go on YouTube and
• 44:41
  search the value of forge and then you can get some insight
• 44:44
  and discipleship from there. And you know, it was amazing.
• 44:48
  So a day-to-day basis. Sorry, I kind of got away from
• 44:52
  your question to to share that testimony, but you know, So what
• 44:55
  it looks like on a day-to-day basis is just being ready, open
• 45:00
  and willing and really, you know, to have that kind of
• 45:04
  boldness. It's not something that I have.
• 45:08
  It's if if I don't have that connection with the Holy Spirit,
• 45:11
  that discipline that I learned through fitness and everything
• 45:15
  of having that I got to pray to God.
• 45:18
  What about you ask me about my mentors.
• 45:20
  There's a prayer that he prays every day and I try to remember
• 45:24
  to pray. It is God help me to be open for
• 45:27
  divine connections that you put in my path.
• 45:30
  He told me that he's prayed that every day for the past 60 years.
• 45:36
  So I try to remember that that is kind of what helps me on a
• 45:39
  day-to-day basis. That's quite the prayer and
• 45:45
  that's, I love it, actually love that prayer because I think
• 45:48
  sometimes we miss opportunities that were put in our face
• 45:52
  because we're either too busy or were too preoccupied or, you
• 45:58
  know, any other number of things.
• 46:01
  And I love, I love the little detour that you took there in
• 46:04
  that testimony that you shared because that just, it is such a
• 46:10
  powerful moment. The fact that you were able to
• 46:18
  step out of your comfort zone and share with him in a way in
• 46:23
  the way that you did is, is such a, a powerful thing.
• 46:31
  I want to just ask a quick question on this because I, I
• 46:34
  can, I can sense the people out there that are going to be
• 46:38
  listening to this podcast and I, I can hear somebody saying, I've
• 46:44
  had that feeling too, but I didn't do it because of XY or Z.
• 46:51
  They explained it away for some reason.
• 46:54
  Talk us through that. And how was it that you were
• 46:58
  able to to overcome the hesitation that I'm sure you
• 47:06
  were feeling that in some way, shape or form and kind of step
• 47:09
  into the boldness? And what advice would you give
• 47:13
  to the listener to be able to do the same thing the next time
• 47:17
  that they feel that in their lives?
• 47:22
  I don't, I don't know if I have a good answer for that because
• 47:24
  it kind of just happened. But what I would say, you know,
• 47:29
  what I've learned over the last five years now is that every
• 47:35
  little step you take, this might be getting a little self develop
• 47:38
  me, but it's it's it's really faith is a muscle that grows and
• 47:44
  in order to grow your muscles, you have to use them.
• 47:48
  So every little step of faith that you take, you know, become
• 47:54
  a worship leader, that's a step of faith.
• 47:57
  Just get up, get up and sing a song in front of a crowd, that's
• 48:00
  a step of faith. Start a podcast, that's a step
• 48:03
  of faith. Change your relationship with
• 48:06
  your wife by asking your wife everyday, how do I love you
• 48:09
  today? That's a step of faith.
• 48:11
  Because when you ask that question, how do I love you
• 48:14
  today? You don't know what she's going
• 48:15
  to ask and you have to be ready. OK, I'm asking you this
• 48:18
  question. I'm going to respond every
• 48:22
  little step of faith that you take.
• 48:23
  So I said that I've had a few instances over the past year
• 48:27
  that happened. I was talking to a man at work
• 48:31
  and he was telling me about some family issues that he was having
• 48:34
  right there in my workplace that is not a Christian place.
• 48:38
  I asked him if I could pray for him.
• 48:41
  Small step of faith. I prayed for him right there in
• 48:44
  the middle of the shop floor. There were a few people around
• 48:47
  watching it. Small step of faith.
• 48:50
  I had a few meetings along the way.
• 48:53
  I don't want to get into all of them, but it was like, OK, what
• 48:56
  do I do now? It's just a step of faith.
• 48:58
  So that little step of faith will lead you to that moment
• 49:02
  where that divine connection comes.
• 49:03
  Now for me, the guy talked to me first.
• 49:06
  He asked me a question, asked me for money, and I just responded.
• 49:11
  And I don't know, it's, it's kind of hard to say.
• 49:15
  Maybe you've been in those moments where God just starts
• 49:18
  using you. You know where it comes from.
• 49:21
  It's just, it just happens. But I do believe it starts with
• 49:25
  a tiny step of faith. I would 100% agree.
• 49:29
  And one of the things that I say on this podcast is, you know, it
• 49:32
  doesn't matter what you're dealing with or what you've been
• 49:35
  through or what's been done with you or anything like that.
• 49:39
  Everything just starts with a step, right?
• 49:42
  And God just wants you to take that first step in over you of
• 49:45
  obedience. You know, if you're dealing with
• 49:48
  something, if you're dealing with an addiction or a hurt or
• 49:50
  something like that. The first step maybe just to
• 49:53
  find somebody that you can trust and telling them at least a part
• 49:57
  of your story, maybe not the whole thing, but just a part of
• 49:59
  it and just begin to trust somebody and unravel it.
• 50:03
  And or maybe it's maybe it's if it's your faith, maybe it's
• 50:07
  praying for somebody. Like you mentioned.
• 50:10
  One of the things that I've been doing a lot recently is if, if
• 50:14
  God put somebody on my mind, then I'll just, I'll stop and
• 50:18
  pray for him right then or I'll send him a quick text and say,
• 50:21
  Hey, you know, just God brought you to mind.
• 50:24
  How's how are things going? How can I pray for you?
• 50:28
  And just doing simple, the simple things like that is a
• 50:31
  good way to start building that muscle.
• 50:33
  Like you said, it's a muscle memory, just didn't follow those
• 50:37
  simple steps. So I love that.
• 50:40
  Yeah. And if I can add to that,
• 50:42
  absolutely have it, if you're having that moment, like where
• 50:44
  you get that urging to call someone if it's wrong, the worst
• 50:50
  that happened is you called someone and encourage them.
• 50:54
  Yeah, hey, God's. God's saying, hey, call Mike and
• 50:58
  say, you know, say God told me to call you, ask you if you're
• 51:01
  OK. Mike says, oh, I'm fine, thanks
• 51:04
  for calling, but you didn't lose anything.
• 51:08
  And he took a step of faith. And maybe nothing extravagant
• 51:12
  happened, but maybe it was just God testing to see if you're
• 51:15
  going to obey. Or maybe there was something and
• 51:19
  he just didn't want to share it. But now he knows that God is
• 51:22
  watching out for him because you communicated it to him, right?
• 51:26
  Maybe you, maybe you were the sign.
• 51:28
  He he was asking, Hey, God, if you're reels, show me a sign,
• 51:32
  you know, or you know, because you hear about people doing that
• 51:35
  all the time for sure. I get asked all the time, you
• 51:39
  know, how do you know God's speaking to you?
• 51:41
  I don't know. But if I know if, if something
• 51:45
  comes to my mind that's a good thing, that's going to help
• 51:48
  somebody or encourage somebody, just do it, especially if it
• 51:53
  lines up with the Bible, you know?
• 51:55
  Yep, absolutely. So through everything that
• 52:01
  you've been through, how has relying on the Holy Spirit
• 52:05
  reshaped the way that you show up now today as a husband and as
• 52:12
  a leader? But really, I want you to focus
• 52:16
  just kind of on as a husband at home when you're private, you
• 52:19
  know, you're in the private life behind closed doors.
• 52:24
  Talk us through that. I, I thank God, it's interesting
• 52:30
  because I, I know men are being encouraged and men are being
• 52:34
  lifted up, but a lot of times I felt like God wanted me to start
• 52:38
  this podcast to help me because when I'm talking to my wife,
• 52:44
  because I never really talked like, you know, you and I are
• 52:47
  talking tonight. I never really talked like this
• 52:50
  to people, never really talked a lot about God in the Bible.
• 52:54
  And now what I'm having conversations with my wife and
• 52:57
  she's right now she's going through some, some some things
• 53:00
  with her mother and you know, some health issues.
• 53:03
  And I talked to her like I'm talking to someone else on a
• 53:08
  podcast, trying to encourage and lift them up or before I would
• 53:13
  just console her, you know, and as I mentioned earlier, another
• 53:16
  way, and I keep this in mind every day, husbands, love your
• 53:21
  wives as Christ loved the church.
• 53:24
  God loved me through all of those 40 years when I didn't
• 53:27
  really show up for him. I was just there and I didn't
• 53:31
  have that relationship with him. My wife and I this year will be
• 53:35
  married 40 years, which is kind of interesting, but 40 years of
• 53:41
  me being there but not being present with my wife.
• 53:47
  I can still be the Christ to my wife, you know, try to love her
• 53:52
  like Christ did. And this is something I learned
• 53:56
  from John Deloney. I don't know if you had to
• 53:57
  listen to his podcast, but he's he's when he counsels people, he
• 54:02
  says, ask your wife every day, how can I love you today?
• 54:06
  And it hit me so hard, like, OK, I'm going to start doing that to
• 54:09
  my wife. And she asked me all the time,
• 54:13
  how can I love you today? Just that simple question.
• 54:16
  How can I love you today? It it'll and if you really apply
• 54:20
  it and do what she says, sometimes she says just be you
• 54:25
  just keep being you. That's enough.
• 54:28
  It, it works. It's it's a game changer.
• 54:34
  Good advice Well, I have a just a couple questions more for you.
• 54:39
  This has been such a good episode.
• 54:41
  I'm loving it. But one of the I love towards
• 54:45
  the end of my episodes to leave listeners with things that they
• 54:49
  can think on. And so I've as this podcast has
• 54:55
  been growing and things, I'm finding that my my audience is
• 55:00
  primarily men. I do have women out there
• 55:02
  listening. So if you're a woman out there
• 55:03
  listening to this episode, thank you, tell your friends.
• 55:08
  But right now, as of this recording, it's, I can't say the
• 55:13
  word predominantly there we go predominantly men.
• 55:18
  So to the men out there who are listening, you know, maybe
• 55:22
  they're, they're physically present in their home, but
• 55:25
  emotionally they're drifting, right?
• 55:27
  They're chasing validation in any way that they can get it.
• 55:33
  What warning would you give those men before it cost them
• 55:39
  something that they can't easily rebuild?
• 55:45
  The the biggest warning that I wish I would have gotten, it's
• 55:49
  not sinking to my shell and something I didn't have when
• 55:52
  that all happened to me, I didn't have other brothers
• 55:55
  around me. I did, I did.
• 55:59
  I just didn't take the time to reach out to them.
• 56:03
  My my biggest advice, So it's not really a warning.
• 56:06
  It's more advice is find someone else to help pull you up.
• 56:13
  You know, you asked me earlier about mentors in my life.
• 56:18
  I can guarantee you God has put someone in your life to help
• 56:22
  you. You just haven't taken the time
• 56:25
  to talk to them. If you go to a church, you can
• 56:29
  find a community of men. They may not have men's groups.
• 56:32
  You may be the person that God wants to use to start a men's
• 56:36
  group in your church, but it starts by reaching out to
• 56:39
  another man. Maybe you see another man that
• 56:41
  comes to church every Sunday and he doesn't talk to anybody.
• 56:46
  You don't talk to anybody. Just put your hand out, shake
• 56:51
  your hand, say hi. My name is Mark.
• 56:53
  What's your name? What do you do for a living?
• 56:55
  Do you want to go out for coffee?
• 56:58
  Push through the awkwardness, you know, and say, hey, the
• 57:02
  reason that I really asked you for coffee today is I'm
• 57:05
  struggling in this area. I feel like I'm starting to get
• 57:09
  into a shell and I'm, I'm getting lonely and I'm
• 57:13
  struggling with this. You know, iron sharpens iron the
• 57:19
  the book of Proverbs is, is the book that I used most of the
• 57:22
  time to do my teaching because there's so many practical
• 57:25
  lessons in there. But iron sharpens irons build it
• 57:29
  a community. And it starts with one guy just
• 57:32
  reaching out to another guy saying, Hey, I am struggling.
• 57:37
  I need help. God put us together.
• 57:40
  Jesus modeled community by putting 12 men together and
• 57:46
  these men that he put together, they weren't the educated, they
• 57:49
  weren't the smart. You know, you don't need to go
• 57:51
  and find some guy on social media who looks like he has it
• 57:55
  all together. Because I can tell you right
• 57:57
  now, and I'm sure you will attest to this, Wesley, we don't
• 58:01
  have it all together. None of us really do.
• 58:06
  We are working it out. But you know, I guess I went on
• 58:11
  a tangent again. But really it's it's finding
• 58:14
  someone else to help you on your journey.
• 58:17
  Don't. You shouldn't try to do this
• 58:19
  alone. Absolutely, yeah, I was.
• 58:23
  You mentioned that and one of the things that came back, came
• 58:26
  running back to my mind was this man, this man, this man men's
• 58:30
  conference that I attended a few months back.
• 58:35
  And the speaker were there was talking about community and how
• 58:38
  important it was and finding somebody that you can talk to
• 58:42
  and especially that can serve as like a mentor for you, right?
• 58:46
  Find somebody, you know, maybe 10 years your senior that is
• 58:49
  further along in their faith or has a deep faith at least that
• 58:52
  you can, you can go to and, and look to and, and talk to for
• 58:56
  advice. And somebody asked a question
• 58:59
  and they said, how do I get him to say yes, everybody's so busy.
• 59:05
  And the speaker said, he said if you really want to talk to
• 59:08
  somebody, just invite him out for coffee.
• 59:12
  He said if you really want to make sure that they come, just
• 59:15
  go up to him, ask and ask him if you can buy him a steak dinner.
• 59:20
  If you'll buy him a steak dinner, I guarantee you they're
• 59:22
  going to show up and you can talk to him about whatever you
• 59:25
  want and they'll listen. So, so I love that example.
• 59:31
  You know, take some, take somebody and bite them off for
• 59:33
  coffee. And if they won't say yes to
• 59:35
  coffee, invite them to a steak dinner.
• 59:37
  They'll come along that way. For sure a steak dinner, but if
• 59:40
  if you can't afford a steak dinner, even a burger.
• 59:43
  Can't go wrong with a burger, right?
• 59:45
  That's right, although nowadays. If you're.
• 59:47
  Off. Yeah, Yeah.
• 59:50
  Nowadays, a burger probably costs about the same as a steak
• 59:53
  dinner. Yeah.
• 59:54
  Unfortunately. Well, Mark, before I get to the
• 59:59
  last question, the the question that everybody likes and listen
• 1:00:03
  waits to to hear on this show, tell us a little bit more about
• 1:00:07
  yourself. Where can listeners find you
• 1:00:10
  online, your podcast? Tell us a little bit about it.
• 1:00:14
  Well, if you just go to the Valiant Forge, the
• 1:00:17
  www.thevaliantforge.com, you can find all my podcast episodes and
• 1:00:24
  there's different platforms on there on YouTube.
• 1:00:28
  I do a little bit more than just the podcasting.
• 1:00:31
  I am I I do a lot of reels that art clips from the podcast are
• 1:00:36
  just me sharing an encouragement.
• 1:00:38
  And I do have a few testimony videos on there as well that I
• 1:00:41
  haven't done on the podcast. I am in the process of building
• 1:00:46
  a community. So if you follow me, if you want
• 1:00:49
  to be part of the community and you follow me on there, when I
• 1:00:52
  get that set up, you will know about it.
• 1:00:55
  I'll put it out on the podcast and on YouTube, so.
• 1:01:00
  Awesome. Well, if you're if you're
• 1:01:02
  listening and you want to find his podcast, check the show
• 1:01:05
  notes for this one and I will send the link or I will provide
• 1:01:08
  a link there to his YouTube channel to find him there, as
• 1:01:12
  well as his website. Well, Mark, as I mentioned, one
• 1:01:16
  of the things I love to do on this episode is I love to leave
• 1:01:18
  my listeners with an action step, something that they can
• 1:01:21
  chew on or something that they can do right now to further
• 1:01:25
  their walk with Christ or to begin living unmasked.
• 1:01:29
  And so for the man out there that's listening, or the woman
• 1:01:33
  who realizes that they've been feeding their ego more than
• 1:01:38
  their marriage, what is 1 specific action that they could
• 1:01:43
  take this week to realign their heart with God and to start
• 1:01:47
  rebuilding trust at home? Since you, since you, you framed
• 1:01:54
  it as you know, building your ego more than your marriage, go
• 1:01:59
  to your wife and confess. The Bible says confess your sins
• 1:02:03
  one to another. And you know that I had to do
• 1:02:07
  that. I got found out, which you know
• 1:02:10
  that that was a God thing. God intervened at just the right
• 1:02:15
  time before it got too far. But after it happened, after I
• 1:02:20
  did get found out, I repented to my wife, I confessed, Hey, I was
• 1:02:26
  I was doing wrong. I got wrong.
• 1:02:29
  Forgive me, you know. So confess to your wife, confess
• 1:02:34
  to your brothers, confess your sins one to another, Repent.
• 1:02:40
  And then the word repent, it means to turn.
• 1:02:43
  It is for sure being sorry for what you've done, but then you
• 1:02:49
  turn and go the other way. So once you confess and it's
• 1:02:53
  it's not going to be always an easy path.
• 1:02:56
  You know, there there is a flesh and an enemy who will always try
• 1:03:01
  to bring you back to where you were because he doesn't want to
• 1:03:05
  see you help advance the Kingdom of God, which is, you know, for
• 1:03:10
  me, that's the purpose is for men to advance the Kingdom of
• 1:03:13
  God. But once you confess and repent,
• 1:03:18
  you start walking in that direction.
• 1:03:20
  As as I mentioned earlier, just start taking these small steps
• 1:03:23
  of faith. And for your wife, tell her
• 1:03:25
  every day that you love her. You may not have to ask that
• 1:03:29
  question, but how do I love you today?
• 1:03:31
  But for sure, tell her you love her and don't let it be this
• 1:03:34
  habitual. You know, as I'm walking out the
• 1:03:36
  door, I love you. See you later, sincerely look at
• 1:03:40
  her in the face every day and say, I love you with all of my
• 1:03:44
  heart and I truly mean it. You know, so that that's how you
• 1:03:48
  rebuild. And that's an action step you
• 1:03:50
  could take right now. As soon as this podcast is over,
• 1:03:56
  close it out. Go to your wife.
• 1:03:58
  If you if you feel like you've sinned against another brother,
• 1:04:03
  go to him and say I'm sorry. You know, I want to build a
• 1:04:06
  godly relationship with you. How do we do?
• 1:04:08
  What do we do next? So.
• 1:04:12
  Love it. Well, Mark, thank you so much
• 1:04:15
  for joining us today on Unmasked and being willing to Share your
• 1:04:20
  story and be unmasked with this community.
• 1:04:24
  Thank you very much. Thanks.
• 1:04:32
  Well, thanks for joining me today on Unmasked, and again, a
• 1:04:34
  huge thanks to Mark for coming on and being so open and honest
• 1:04:39
  with us. If something on this episode
• 1:04:42
  spoke to you, don't let it stop with you.
• 1:04:45
  Share it with the one person that God put on your heart while
• 1:04:47
  you were listening because you never know whose breakthrough
• 1:04:50
  might start with just a simple message from you.
• 1:04:53
  If you want more encouragement, you want to work with me
• 1:04:55
  one-on-one, or you're interested in having me speak at your
• 1:04:58
  church or event, you can find everything you need to know at
• 1:05:01
  wesleyfarnsworth.com. And make sure you join the
• 1:05:05
  Unmasked community by connecting with me on social media so that
• 1:05:08
  we can keep walking this journey together.
• 1:05:11
  Until next time, remember that grace is greater than your past,
• 1:05:16
  and freedom begins the moment that you choose to live
• 1:05:19
  unmasked. God bless you.