Latest / RoofersCoffeeShop / Strengthening Fall Protection in Roofing
Transcript
- Adam Cabrera: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations, and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. Hello everyone and welcome back to an episode of Roofing Road Trips brought to you by RoofersCoffeeshop.com. I'm your host, Megan Ellsworth, and today I have the honor of sitting down with Amy Staska and Rich Truin from the National Roofing Contractors Association. And we're talking about fall protection and the trainer course for roofing that you all have put together. So I'm so excited to talk about this really important topic. So welcome to the show, you guys. Thank you for having us. Thanks, Megan. Yes, of course. So let's start out by having each of you just tell us a little bit about you and what you do at N NRCA. So Amy, I'll have you go first. I am Amy Stavska. I'm the Vice President of Education and Workforce Development at NRCA. I have been with the association for about twenty two years, which is a long time. and I was first hired actually into the safety department, so it's appropriate that we're talking about file protection. But the funny thing was I didn't actually know anything about safety at the time. It's just that they were writing a safety manual and I was actually hired because I was a good writer a not a subject matter expert. So Got it. That's awesome. Full circle. That's right. Rich, can you please introduce yourself? Sure, thank you again. Yeah, my name is Rich Truan. I'm the director of risk education and training for NRCA. And I haven't been here twenty years, but I've been here eleven. I started in the roofing industry about thirty-two years ago. So I've been in the industry for quite some time. Yeah, it's it's been a while. It's been a long process to getting where I'm at. But I started with a company out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Carroll Stream, Illinois, and that then rolled up into one of the larger roofing companies in the US and I became the national director of safety health. And from there I went to join NRCA. So I'm super glad to be here. I do a lot of the safety training programs for NRCA and develop a lot of their educational programs when it comes to safety. That's amazing. It's so important. So important to have those educational programs and resources for contractors to use, not only as like association members, but just for the industry overall as well. okay, so can you two share the background behind this fall protection trainer course for roofing and what led to NRCA offering this educational opportunity. Rich, I'll have you go first. Absolutely, I'd love to talk about this. You know, falls continue to be the leading cause of serious injuries and fatalities in the roofing industry. So NRCA saw the need to help companies move beyond simply meeting compliance requirements and help to help them build a stronger safety culture. The course was really developed specifically for the roofing industry to help give roofing professionals the knowledge, confidence, and training skills needed to effectively teach. So we want to give them that tool to be able to teach, not just the program, not just the knowledge, but we wanted to give them something they were going to be able to effectively teach their own workers and their own members that that they can go forward with. And and the great thing about this program is that You not only leave with the knowledge and the information we train in the class, but you also leave with some very valuable tools. We leave them with a PowerPoint program and a training program that they can make their own. So it's it's a great program. We're really excited about it. Yeah, that's that's really it's so s so important. Amy, from your perspective, why why did you guys get this training course started? Yeah, I think I like to camp on the second part of what Rich was talking about and that's the train the trainer part of it. NRCA has been doing safety training forever. You know, like before my twenty two years. You know, obviously it's one of the lead leading causes of injuries and fatalities in the roofing industry. So it's not like, you know, just a couple of years ago we thought it would be a good idea to talk about fall protection. NRFCA's been doing it for a long time. We actually have another day-long class that that we affectionately call RAS, but which stands for Roofing Industry Fall Protection A to Z, which we do from time to time, but it is not have a train the trainer component. And for me, the important thing about this upcoming class is exactly what Rich was talking about. Like it is intended to be a class, not that you would send everybody to, but that you would send one or two people to so that they could go back and effectively train po others in the company. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. And it that really builds company culture. We'll get into that in a little bit. But you know, when when it's coming from someone internally, it it oftentimes has a bigger effect than an external source. Right. So from your perspective, Rich, what are the biggest challenges contractors face when providing effective fall protection training to their teams? Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the biggest challenges is to making sure that the training actually sticks, that they actually get the information out there, presented in a way that their students are gonna retain the information. you know, it it's easy to check that compliance box. It's easy to say, we did the training. It's easy to set somebody in front of a of a movie screen or a TV screen and have them watch a video. But it doesn't necessarily account for what did they retain, what information did they gain from the program. And that's what this program does. Like we said, It makes the program their own. We allow them to put into practice the things that we train them on how to train effectively and really get the information across to their students a little bit better. You know, we have to face it. We have a lot of different contractors out there, we have a lot of different experiences levels in the training programs that we teach. Roofers have been there for a year, five years, ten years, fifteen, and like Amy's case, twenty years in the same industry. So we have different experience levels and what this program really does is it allows us to show trainers how to train to each of those different levels and make it one congruent program, make it one program that really works for them. Yeah. Yeah. That that it again so huge, especially when it's coming from some from an internal source. Amy, what are you seeing some of the the challenges that contractors face when they're trying to implement fall protection training? I think one of the big issues, and I know this just because I also am a human being, it's it's about keeping it fresh, right? Like taking a message that people hear all the time. 'Cause I have zero doubt that fall protection training is happening, right? I mean there's safety directors out there, they're talking to the people at the companies about file protection, they're doing toolbox talks, you know there is just no shortage of, you know, be careful messaging out there. And there's really good equipment to be using and safety directors are constantly emphasizing that one on the job site. And so it is it's like anything that you talk about a lot. it's important and also it starts sounding a little bit like the Charlie Brown teacher, right? Like wah wah wah wah back here. And so I think anytime somebody can go and then come back to their companies with fresh resources it's just it's just a little something. You know, 'cause again, like all the good intentions out there, and not even just intentions, but actions. But it's like how can you keep the messaging fresh? you know, if a trainer has something new that they can use to deliver, they're gonna be more enthusiastic and then people are gonna hear them differently. So you know, Megan, I think that's a a thing that sets our program apart so much too, is that we train a roofing specific program. So That's the other thing. There's a lot of materials out there, there's lot of training programs out there for fall protection, as Amy was saying, but there's not a lot of them out there that are specific to the roofing industry and the needs of the roofer. Yeah. Yeah, that is very true. And to have an association behind this as well that's like staying on top of the current changes in OSHA code and all the all the different things and new innovations in safety gear, everything. That it's huge too, because I'm sure you guys keep this course up to date always and and and keeping it fresh. Right. Yeah. So who would you say this trainer course is designed for? and what should prospective participants know before registering? Well I'll I'll hop in first. Because just because like in my wildest dreams at every company there would be somebody that that manages training. I mean, not just an HR person. I shouldn't say just an HR person. HR is super important. But because it's so important, usually an HR person has so many things going on. Right. So in in my wildest dreams, again, I would love for there to be a training manager, a workforce development manager, somebody like that that is actually keeping a finger on the pulse of everybody at the company who's getting good training. and or somebody who is a dedicated trainer, even if that person has some other responsibilities. So I know that not all companies have those roles. So I certainly wouldn't say that you should only send somebody to this class if you have a training manager or a trainer. But whoever is gonna come to a class that's a train the trainer class really oughta be somebody who likes people, who likes working with people, who likes communicating with people. And th those are not that's not everybody, right? Right. It's just not. You know, you could have some great superintendents, some great foremen, some great directors of operations and safety and all and all the things. But I would say like it almost doesn't matter what level a person is at a company. I mean you need somebody who others are gonna respect. Yeah. But really a a a good trainer, somebody who really enjoys communicating with people, really enjoys Like seeing that proverbial light bulb go on when they learn new things. And so I would I would say whoever that is, whatever, whatever level of the company, somebody who really enjoys being in that training role. Yeah. Well said. Rich. Right. I agree with Amy on that one hundred percent. I would say one other thing is participants should know that the course not only focuses on the training side of things. But there are a lot of interactive things. So they'll physically need to be able to be capable of a as we spoke of earlier, hanging in a tripod and self rescuing and doing some of those things that are gonna be physically they're gonna be physically capable of. Now, in a classroom setting, trainers can can pick someone out of the audience, they can pick a participant that they know can do those tasks. But it's really nice to have somebody there that wants to do them, wants to show other people these things, and again, like Amy said, that's very excited to be there and train people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So what are some of the topics and training principles that you'll be exploring during the course, Rich? I'll handle the training topics. I'm gonna let Amy talk about some of the training aspects up behind it. But the basics behind this program are we do a very deep dive into topics like hazard recognition on a rooftop. We talk about fall protection systems, and just like you were mentioning, the new and and Other things that are new out in the industry, new fall protection systems, new regulations and rules. We talk about both OSHA and the American National Standard Institute regulations, which are very applicable when it comes to anything we're doing on job sites. We're starting to see that not only OSHA starts to play a role in what's done as far as safety on job sites, but GCs, insurance companies, they're looking into doing a deeper dive into what can be done on rooftops because as we stated earlier. Falls tend to be the leading cause of injuries and fatalities. And so they want to do something to correct that. So we're seeing some some of these contractors go above and beyond what the OSHA rules say. And in this class we dive into that. We talk about American National Standards Institute, some of their rules and regulations, and really take a deep dive into it. Yeah. That's really cool. So Amy, what are some of those training principles that you guys get into? Yes, this is This is my favorite thing. You know, like in any of our classes, if I can bring this kind of stuff in, I love to do that. Yeah. Because whether or not you're a trainer, if you're communicating with other people, like how you do that actually matters. Yeah. you know, actually and before we got on here, right, we were all talking about our love of telephone conversations versus being able to see people, and we were talking about the fact that regardless of the statistic that we throw out, whether it's eighty percent or ninety percent or whatever, how important our nonverbals are when we're talking to other people. And that can be a one on one conversation, but somebody who's in a training role very often will be talking to a larger group of people. That might be a crew. It could be in a classroom or on a job site or wherever. You know, like I know that between Rich and I we've done training classes in all kinds of different places. So the studying is less important than How to capture people's attention when you're talking to them and how to get people engaged, talking to each other. You know, at the beginning of this conversation, Megan, you mentioned that somebody from inside the company can often have a greater impact than if you invite somebody from outside. And people really enjoy learning from their peers. And when you're a trainer, in some ways you become not not the peer. even if you're very familiar with everybody there. So I think being a good facilitator, you know, like I'm gonna have Rich and Megan talk to each other now because they're gonna learn better from each other than they're gonna learn from me. Yeah. so it's it's some things like that. It's how to handle yourself nonverbally, it's how to be a good facilitator, how to ask good questions and how to facilitate the answering of questions when other people have them. so it's it's It's not difficult. Like we all talk to people all the time. But there is something to be said for, you know what, like I'm driving the bus for the next hour or fifteen minutes or eight hours or however long your session is gonna be. And having a plan for that and knowing how to facilitate people getting to a place where they can know better and do better than they were doing when you started. That is huge. And I love how you said being able to Or being trained at what questions to ask too, because a lot of times in those settings and especially in the construction world, people are maybe afraid to ask questions in those public settings or for fear of, you know, sounding dumb or inexperienced. And so as a trainer, when you have something like this, this program that kind of helps you teach learn what are the common questions that maybe someone is afraid to ask. And then you can ask it and and ask the audience and then they're all like, No, and I don't know. And and so then you can go into explaining it. I think that is a huge point that you made. well and these are small groups too. Like yeah. This class has I think what is it, Rich? A max of fifteen. Maximum of fifteen students. We like to keep small so that we get better training results. Yeah. We can have better conversations and and then it does You you spend two full days together and so you you start becoming familiar and you're willing to sort of put yourself out there a little more. Right. Amazing. So how can completing this trainer focused course help roofing companies strengthen their consistency, effectiveness of their fall protection education? I mean, it seems a little straightforward, but Rich, talk about how it can really boost a company's effectiveness in training. Sure. Well I think when a company has trained instructors delivering the same message, and and when I say the same message, I mean going by the same rules. They have the same discipline. They talk specifically about the same rules going out from job site to job site. I think that helps the quality and the consistency of the training. And it approves acr improves across the entire organization when you when you do that. Yeah. When employees receive clear guidance, better expectations that their employers have for them. th those results show in the end end game. we see a better safety culture that starts to build. You know, all too often you get a lot of confusion between different foreman maybe training different techniques or different subjects on their job sites and everything gets kind of muffled up. Well with a training program program like this, we try to stay as consistent as possible and have one clear message to employees. And what that does in the end is is give you a better workforce out there that's dealing on the same level. Yeah. Amy, have you seen this in action, you know, through the train the trainer courses of how it really just boosts a company? yeah. Yes. I mean, it's from t well, multiple different perspectives actually. So people come to a training course, they go back enthused about the stuff that they learned there, so that gives them a little bit of a spark of energy for it. Totally. they'll go back like with a whole bunch of different resources they can use at their company. So that feels fresh. That's a whole nother way of tackling it. And then I I hope anyway that people just go back more confident in their role as trainers. You know, 'cause it that can be quite intimidating. It in in a in the industry, in the industry anyway, like the roofing industry, but also i even even though we've talked about how nice it is to learn from your peers, like No joke, it's a little intimidating to be a trainer for people that you know really well. Yeah. And so it's like it's a lot easier to talk to a group people that are not familiar to you than people who are. So kudos to people who are trainers in their company and who, especially if they haven't really been trainers and they come to a course like this and go back prepared to train their peers. Like that's a big deal. And we really appreciate like the kind of sensitive nature of that. And so I think that we can speak a lot to that and help people to go back feeling equipped. And also we joke we joke about this, but in every class, Rich will give people his phone number and encourage them to call him twenty four hours a day. Like that's one of the things about about being with an association. Right? Like our passion is for our members. And that exists well outside the boundaries of any particular class. In fact in fact part of the the value of a class is being able to reiterate to people like this is why we exist. Like call us. Call us and talk to us about safety. Or if you're going to be teaching a a course tomorrow on fall protection, call Rich and talk to him about fall protection. If you want some refresher on training tips, call me. Like let's talk about what you're going to be doing. And so it's not just like come to this class And leave with some encouragement and some tools, but come to this class and leave with some resources that you might not have felt confident with before. Right. I can share stories of being in the industry, you know, 30 years in the roofing industry, and I can tell you I wasn't aware what the NRCA had to offer me. And I we had a membership. I just never utilized it. I always joke about the fact that I would literally, and this is gonna age me a little bit. But I I used to go to a payphone to call up the local area OSHA office and I still remember the number by heart, four one four, two nine seven, three three one five. That was a area office in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I knew it so well, and they probably knew me very well, even though I tried to use my scruffy voice, hey this is Jim over at, you know, ABC Roofing and I'm looking for this question. I never knew that I had a resource like NRCA. To call up and ask these questions and literally network with and utilize their training resources. And that's why I always, as as Amy joked around, I always give my personal number out, my cell number out, because I want people to be able to call me up if they have those questions. And I know, just from experience, that there was never a a a time when it was a normal time, like at twelve o'clock I'll be able to call. No, it came at all different times of the day. So I always offer up. Call me twenty four seven. I'm going to be available. If I don't answer right away, I'll get back to you as soon as I can. But it's always I'm always open for conversations. That's so fabulous. And you're so right. It is such a resource, the NRCA. And these train the trainer courses are sound like such a valuable resource for people. I know we talked about, you know, who is the the right person to attend the these classes, but I kind of want to ask you guys w what should contractors consider when they're selecting the right employee to attend and bring what they learn back to the company. Like maybe they the a company is listening to this and they don't have a training person yet. What are some of the characteristics they should look for in the person to send? It is a great question, Megan. I like we we meet people all the time who have this Not that everybody has to have a crazy passion for for roofing, but honestly, there are I so enjoy talking to people who love what they do for work. And if you love what you do, you're you're gonna communicate that better to people. and if you are a competent communicator, like you don't have to be awesome at it, but I guess I would encourage contractors to look at their workforce and think, Who do I have that just loves what they do, that really wants to build a good culture at this company, that wants to keep people safe, that wants to see the work done well, and who enjoys talking to people. Like we don't necessarily have a lot of people in the roofing industry like that. Like in some of our other classes, we do the disc profile, you know, which is like a personality profile type thing. And primarily in our industry, we find that we are populated with For obvious reasons. Like dominant, detail oriented, take charge, get the job done, you know, like take no prisoners kind of people. Right. And we need those people. And we have far fewer people who are like, I enjoy talking with others, I like hanging out with people, I really like talking to people and and seeing things you know come together. Yeah. Stuff like that. So On the one hand I say there were probably fewer people that might fit the bill in some ideal sense. but also maybe they're easier to identify. So you know, maybe pull some of those people out from the from different ranks in the company. I feel like we all have the chatty Kathy, you know, somewhere in in in your life, in in in your business. So just find the chatty Kathy. Yeah. And and and let us let us help them to direct their chat. Yes. And the energy. Yeah, I I always say find somebody that's passionate about safety, find somebody that's passionate about talking to others. you know, I think we've all had that training experience, especially when it comes to safety, where somebody says, We've got to do this because the boss is making us do it. They're just checking a box. We wanna find somebody who's out there that says, I'm really excited to train this to you because I know it means you're gonna go home safe at the end of the day. And we we like to hear that a lot. You know, we like to hear when people are excited about it. We love at the end of the class when people start coming up to us and say, I can't wait to do this. You know, I'm gonna call you and let you know when I'm gonna do it and they're so giddy about it. it makes us excited to know that they're excited about going out and training and and training with the material we've given Yeah, exactly. Ugh, I love it. So, everyone go to NRCA.net to register for the fall protection trainer course for roofing. And is there like set dates for the courses? When do they start? Yes, it is coming up. The f the next one that we have is coming up in early November. Awesome. As we're talking, I am it's November fourth and fifth. That's the only one that we have on the schedule right now. but we usually have a couple per year. Yeah, it's held in Elgin, Illinois, at our training facilities. So we have a large training area. with both classroom and hands on session areas. So we have a big area to kind of practice and run around and play with all the toys and play with all the equipment that we have. It it's actually a really entertaining class and and keeps people moving all the time. Awesome. Yeah, and it because it's so hands on and because we have people assemble like all kinds of different fall protection systems and all of that, it is almost maybe our only class right now, Rich, that we don't travel with. Right. Yeah. There's just Yeah, because of all the hands on exercises we do, we just couldn't ask anybody to ship it. Number one, have all that equipment that we have. Number two, for us to ship that to someplace would be crazy. but but definitely we're used to training in our own atmosphere. We have three tripods set up in the front of the classroom where we demonstrate fall rescue and and ways to delay orthostatic shock. And then we have another area where we practice ladder safety. we practice anchor points, so we install all different types of anchor points, and then all different types of fall protection systems as well. So it is a very hands-on-y type of class where we get students up and moving the entire time. Ugh, I love it. I love it. So November fourth and fifth, correct. in Illinois, and everyone can go to NRCA.net to find the more information and register. You can also find information on the Fall Protection Trainer Course for Roofing on the NRCA directory on rooferscoffeeshop dot com. Amy and Rich, thank you both so much for chatting with me today. This is such an important topic and I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you too, Megan. Hey and Megan, like I said, you know, I wanna share my number even with you today, but I'm gonna throw out my own personal number here. And please reach out to me with any questions about the c upcoming classes. or any safety questions concerning roofing, I can be reached at 847-894-4582. but please reach out to me 247. I'm available. If I don't answer right away, I'll get back to you at some point. Fabulous, fabulous. Everyone please go to the NRCA directory on rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more and I'll be seeing all of you out there on the next roofing road trip. If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next roofing road trip.