Latest / Yarrow of Tomorrow / Todd Carmichael: Selling La Colombe, Surviving a Stroke & Starting Over

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Todd Carmichael: Selling La Colombe, Surviving a Stroke & Starting Over · Yarrow of Tomorrow

• [00:00:00:22 - 00:00:02:09] Todd Carmichael I started seeing pieces. [00:00:03:21 - 00:00:17:18] Todd Carmichael Not things that I invented, but pieces that could be molded and turned. And then I started thinking of systems and then I started realizing I know where I belong. I don't belong climbing the coffee mountain anymore. I've already climbed it. [00:00:18:18 - 00:00:21:20] Todd Carmichael I belong as a Sherpa. That's where I belong. [00:00:25:06 - 00:00:29:20] Kimberly McGlonn This episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Learn to Swim Collective. [00:00:31:11 - 00:01:05:15] Kimberly McGlonn Who are you when the thing that defined you no longer needs you? My next guest spent 30 years building a company that after selling forced him to rediscover who he was without it. Todd Carmichael is the co-founder of La Colombe and a modern architect of American coffee. He has crossed Antarctica solo, sailed the Pacific solo, and hosted Travel Channel's Dangerous Grounds. When he was forced to sell his company, he found himself adrift, needing to rediscover who he was and his next great plot. Here's our conversation. [00:01:08:22 - 00:01:15:07] Kimberly McGlonn The last time we talked, you were just getting back from some family travel. That was the first, last major time. Yep. Where'd you guys go? [00:01:15:07 - 00:01:31:09] Todd Carmichael Southern Africa. So we did Namibia, Botswana, and then South Africa. As you know, my kids come from Ethiopia. And so it was a big trip for us to go back to the continent. Yeah. And there's a great deal of worry to do that. [00:01:31:09 - 00:01:32:04] Kimberly McGlonn In what way? [00:01:32:04 - 00:01:38:10] Todd Carmichael Well, the kids don't all have good memories of their experiences when they were young. [00:01:38:10 - 00:01:39:09] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, small children. [00:01:39:09 - 00:01:42:03] Todd Carmichael And so I wanted to do something where we would return. [00:01:42:03 - 00:01:42:11] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:01:42:11 - 00:01:46:08] Todd Carmichael They can see something similar to the culture they came from, but feel safe. [00:01:46:08 - 00:01:46:15] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:01:46:15 - 00:01:51:02] Todd Carmichael And so we went on safari. And then on the way home, they're all saying, "When are we coming back?" [00:01:53:06 - 00:01:52:09] Todd Carmichael And there's so much more to see. [00:01:52:09 - 00:01:55:19] Kimberly McGlonn Oh, yeah. There's so much more to see. How many countries in Africa have you been to? [00:01:55:19 - 00:02:01:14] Todd Carmichael Oh, I don't know. I guess, well, mostly coffee countries. There are what, 62 countries, I guess? [00:02:01:14 - 00:02:04:21] Kimberly McGlonn I mean, I wish, sure. That sounds about close to right. [00:02:04:21 - 00:02:12:19] Todd Carmichael Yeah. I've done all of North Africa and then all of East Africa, for sure. Okay. Because that's where the coffee is, South Africa. I'm probably half. Okay. Probably maybe a little over half. [00:02:12:19 - 00:02:14:21] Kimberly McGlonn That's remarkable. [00:02:14:21 - 00:02:31:17] Todd Carmichael My drive is always I like cities, but that's not where I'm going. I like to find the most isolated places in the isolated countries. And I find that's where you find, well, one, the best coffees, but two, you really get the heartbeat of a country. [00:02:32:19 - 00:02:39:04] Kimberly McGlonn One thing, I'm thinking about the first time we met, and I don't remember when it was exactly. Do you remember the first time we met? [00:02:40:17 - 00:02:42:02] Todd Carmichael I don't. [00:02:42:02 - 00:02:43:10] Kimberly McGlonn I don't remember the first time we met. [00:02:43:10 - 00:02:45:18] Todd Carmichael You've seen each other so many times. When was the first? [00:02:45:18 - 00:03:06:12] Kimberly McGlonn I know. I don't know. I do have a distinct memory of being in the coffee shop working and you came through like a blaze and no one knew who you were. And I don't even know of all the people in the world. I don't even know how I knew who you were, but I know I decided maybe then before then that I wanted to know you. I was like, I want to know him. [00:03:06:12 - 00:03:08:04] Todd Carmichael Was I with anyone? [00:03:08:04 - 00:03:27:15] Kimberly McGlonn You might've been with Yemi. I don't know. I was with my daughter. You were one of the girls. Yeah. And there were so many things I think that I thought were fascinating about you, but the one is the thing that I think we share, which is the spirit of the pioneer. Yeah. Like the capacity to go to the place, the furthest edge. [00:03:27:15 - 00:03:28:07] Todd Carmichael The frontier. [00:03:28:07 - 00:03:28:20] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:03:28:20 - 00:03:31:10] Todd Carmichael That's where I long to be. [00:03:31:10 - 00:03:44:09] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, that is it. And one of the things I'm learning about that space is, which is like there's something so romantic, I think about being at the outer edge, but the loneliness of it, the irony of the romance and the loneliness of being a pioneer. [00:03:44:09 - 00:03:49:03] Todd Carmichael There is definitely a huge piece of it that is loneliness. [00:03:49:03 - 00:03:49:13] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:03:49:13 - 00:04:02:12] Todd Carmichael But it depends how you interpret it. I think of all the treks that I've done, and when you're like two months out on your own and there's no one within a thousand miles of you, you could describe that as lonely, [00:04:03:14 - 00:04:18:20] Todd Carmichael but you can also describe it as being with yourself finally. And you are you in that environment, right? And then you get to test it. You get to test how deep your tanks are and what you're willing to do and test your resolve. [00:04:18:20 - 00:04:27:04] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. One of my favorite shows on TV, I don't know if you know this about me, is the show Alone. Have you ever watched it? I haven't. Okay. So there's like the naked and afraid. It's not that. [00:04:27:04 - 00:04:29:01] Todd Carmichael Okay. Alone. Oh, it's weird. [00:04:29:01 - 00:05:02:13] Kimberly McGlonn Right. That does sound weird. That does seem weird. Like I don't know why you'd want that, Alone is you get to take 10 things into a, it could be Alaska, it could be Canada, like frozen Canada. And it's a game for half a million dollars to see how long you can survive on your own with only 10 items that you can bring. And there are animal species that you can hunt and animal species that you can't hunt. And you have to build shelter. You have to figure out how long you can be. You can survive the elements alone. It's one of my favorite shows. I don't know. I just, I know. [00:05:02:13 - 00:05:04:14] Todd Carmichael I know guys that could live the rest of their lives out there. [00:05:04:14 - 00:05:05:04] Kimberly McGlonn Like that? [00:05:05:04 - 00:05:06:00] Todd Carmichael Oh yeah. Yeah. [00:05:06:00 - 00:05:06:13] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:05:06:13 - 00:05:07:15] Todd Carmichael That's a skill set. [00:05:07:15 - 00:05:19:06] Kimberly McGlonn It's a complex, it's a complex skill set. Like you got to know how to like, know the terrain and what to avoid and what you can consume and how to stay warm and how to adjust to the seasons. That's, that is no joke. [00:05:19:06 - 00:05:38:22] Todd Carmichael No. And you have to be comfortable with suffering. Yeah. You know, that's, that part, that's the thing. Can you disassociate your mind from what's happening to the body? If you can do that, then you can live forever. Right. That part. Have you experienced a big fire within the last couple of years? [00:05:38:22 - 00:05:43:04] Kimberly McGlonn I left, well, for a lot of people would be like the most incredible [00:05:44:07 - 00:06:24:11] Kimberly McGlonn perch, which is teaching the school district that I pay, I was, you know, six figures, $75 for perfect healthcare packages and lots of time off and really no grading out. I mean like a really easy life with a lot of breath. I left that life of that breath to pursue what I knew was not likely, which was like building a company that paid a living wage and took care of women who'd come home from prison and was doing it all through the lens of real fidelity to sustainability and, and a lot of uncertainty, knowing that the odds were against me. And then to have to eight years later realize that, [00:06:25:20 - 00:06:30:08] Kimberly McGlonn you know, while there, I think there was some interest in that projects of that kind, there really wasn't, [00:06:32:21 - 00:06:46:18] Kimberly McGlonn there really wasn't a demand for it. You know, there wasn't a consumer demand for it. There wasn't a investor demand for that. And knowing that I'd taken it as far as I could, I just there, I'd just reached the cliff's edge and that I'd have to [00:06:47:18 - 00:06:48:18] Kimberly McGlonn publicly say that I, [00:06:49:18 - 00:07:09:14] Kimberly McGlonn in one way, I think at the time I was framing it as that I couldn't do it. There was a sense of me that was just like, I couldn't get this any, I couldn't take it any further. And, and that public defeat, what felt at the time like a public defeat, it really pushed sense of like private humiliation. [00:07:11:08 - 00:07:12:00] Kimberly McGlonn And [00:07:12:00 - 00:07:13:03] Todd Carmichael you were hard on yourself. [00:07:13:03 - 00:07:15:01] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, I probably was hard on myself. [00:07:15:01 - 00:07:17:20] Todd Carmichael You traded comfort for purpose. [00:07:17:20 - 00:07:22:08] Kimberly McGlonn And I had a life of purpose, but for deeper purpose. [00:07:22:08 - 00:07:22:22] Todd Carmichael Deeper purpose. [00:07:22:22 - 00:07:24:18] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. For less self in a different way. [00:07:24:18 - 00:07:25:16] Todd Carmichael And you took a shot at it. [00:07:25:16 - 00:07:26:18] Kimberly McGlonn And I took a shot at it. [00:07:26:18 - 00:07:28:12] Todd Carmichael And you went a certain distance. [00:07:28:12 - 00:07:28:21] Kimberly McGlonn Yep. [00:07:28:21 - 00:07:34:04] Todd Carmichael And once you hit that distance, you had, you came to an understanding that there were a couple of variables that you couldn't control. [00:07:34:04 - 00:07:36:08] Kimberly McGlonn That's right. Okay. That's right. [00:07:36:08 - 00:07:41:08] Todd Carmichael And then that made, and now you're being a little hard or you were being really hard on yourself. [00:07:41:08 - 00:07:48:19] Kimberly McGlonn Oh, now I'm just like, no, this is the journey. Now I'm like, the joy in life is actually betting on yourself. [00:07:48:19 - 00:07:49:18] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:07:49:18 - 00:08:15:23] Kimberly McGlonn And that's what I can look back and see that while I was betting on this project, I also had the courage to trust that I could, I could see it and not know, could I get it all the light that it needed? Could I control the water and all the other, those variables of growing something? You can't do that. You just, I learned that I'm just, whatever, where there's vision, right? There's possibility. [00:08:15:23 - 00:08:16:15] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:08:16:15 - 00:08:34:01] Kimberly McGlonn And now I see myself and the journey as one of like, I just want to, I want to be a visionary, which means I want to see the thing and build the thing and give it all that I got. And then let it do what it's going to do. And I control the outcome in the way that I used to think I had to. Yeah. [00:08:34:01 - 00:08:36:09] Todd Carmichael Well, you pick, you picked, [00:08:37:11 - 00:08:39:10] Todd Carmichael like you had bravery that I don't have. [00:08:40:11 - 00:08:44:09] Todd Carmichael And I'll tell you why, because I'm always looking for bandwidth. [00:08:45:14 - 00:09:18:12] Todd Carmichael So if I'm going to enter a space, it's got to be huge. There's got to be room for me, even when I, no one even notices, right? So let's say like, for example, what I wouldn't pick is, let me think of something esoteric I just recently, oh yeah. I saw a basket with bronzed bananas in it. Okay. It was like a decoration. I looked at the bronze bananas and I thought that dude picked something that's a super narrow bandwidth. Bronzed fruits. Right. It's really tiny. The coffee, huge, this is so huge. [00:09:18:12 - 00:09:18:20] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:09:18:20 - 00:09:31:02] Todd Carmichael You can fall down and it'd still be okay. Right. Right. Right. There are other areas that are really narrow that I go, not that they can't be done because that's not true. Right. But I look at it and go, wow, this skill set you need for that, I don't have. [00:09:31:02 - 00:09:32:01] Kimberly McGlonn It's precise. Right. [00:09:32:01 - 00:09:43:14] Todd Carmichael You know, if you come to me and said, I don't know, pop tarts. I go, yeah, I guess. Maybe. Maybe. That's big. A lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. But there's just some bigger bandwidth. [00:09:43:14 - 00:09:43:23] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:09:45:23 - 00:09:50:23] Todd Carmichael Not that people don't make a living in the smaller areas, but like fish hooks and stuff like that. [00:09:50:23 - 00:09:52:06] Kimberly McGlonn But it's tighter. [00:09:52:06 - 00:09:53:16] Todd Carmichael I get nervous in those. [00:09:53:16 - 00:10:50:18] Kimberly McGlonn When I thought about fashion, I thought there was I thought there was lots of room. I thought there was a lot of opportunity. And I still think there is. It's just that you, the more you grow in business, you understand that there are, there are structures and levers and there are rules and there are, there are like just tighter guardrails. And sometimes you just need to have things that are set up in such a way to make it easy for you. You know, like there's a reason why you sign in on compete, right? So that you can't pick up now that you know the rules and the levers and just instantly be a serious threat. And, and there's, that's the reason why those things exist. Because once people have exactly decided what the barometers are, you know, you got to work with them. But, you know, I think that that's a learning too, you know, you learn, you learn systems and you learn, do you want to go again in the same lane or you just want a full reinvention. And I think that for all of us who are trying to make a life that is beautiful, there's more than one way to do it. [00:10:51:19 - 00:10:52:20] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Oh yeah. [00:10:52:20 - 00:10:54:06] Kimberly McGlonn You know, it's more than one way. [00:10:54:06 - 00:10:56:13] Todd Carmichael Yeah. There's so many ways. [00:10:56:13 - 00:10:57:05] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:10:57:05 - 00:11:03:23] Todd Carmichael I still think that it always has to encompass this, you must release some things. [00:11:05:01 - 00:11:13:11] Todd Carmichael But you know what I'm saying. I know you know what I'm saying that you got to like that, you got to let that shit go. You probably have, but I'm just saying there's a lot of like, [00:11:14:14 - 00:11:16:03] Todd Carmichael kind of inward directed, [00:11:17:13 - 00:11:23:18] Todd Carmichael like harm that you're doing because you're just this, you're just that, you know, all this, you have to let go of that stuff. [00:11:23:18 - 00:11:34:16] Kimberly McGlonn And I was telling my daughter last night that, you know, every time you're not focusing on what's possible in the future and what's forward, you're focusing on what's behind you. And that means you're eating your momentum. [00:11:34:16 - 00:12:13:05] Todd Carmichael Oh my God. Okay. I'm going to tell you another Antarctica story, right? Because this touches on exactly how I did it. So you're at base camp. Now, because I have a really big mouth, I declared to the expedition world that a guy was going to solo and it was going to be me and I was going to break the world record. Right. Okay. So everyone knows that the first guy to do it, he stays always. In other words, if you set a world record, someone breaks your world record, you're out, like you're off the list. But if you're the first, you're always talked about. So you always want to be a first. So that just, everyone came out of the woodwork and at base camp, we had groups of guys or a couple of different. [00:12:13:05 - 00:12:15:15] Kimberly McGlonn Oh, everyone started going after it at the same time. [00:12:15:15 - 00:12:34:00] Todd Carmichael And these guys were ripped. They were like, you know, and I'd prepared, I mean, I was way heavier than I'm now and I was running a marathon a day and I was ready, but these guys were 15 years younger than me and they looked like they were ready to go the distance. Within four days, I was the only guy on the ice because one rule I said, [00:12:35:02 - 00:13:05:04] Todd Carmichael you can never think about the past and you can never think about the future ever. You have to stay in the moment. And you're pulling 14 hours a day, you're pulling 275 pounds uphill. Right. And because the moment you look up in the future, you say to yourself, oh, I only got a month and a half of this left. And your head snaps because you can't think of that torture. Or if you turn around, you think I only made it this far. Right. I'm almost exhausted now. Right. [00:13:06:04 - 00:13:24:03] Todd Carmichael So I just stayed in that same moment always. And that's what got me there. And it's the same. Now I try to do that with other things I tried. Just don't be thinking about the, when's the last time you thought of the future when you have a project that you're doing and it made you happy. [00:13:25:08 - 00:13:26:17] Todd Carmichael It just gives you anxiety. [00:13:26:17 - 00:13:27:04] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:13:27:04 - 00:13:45:03] Todd Carmichael That's it. And what are you going to do with that in the now? Nothing. That's not useful. And if you look in the past, it usually only brings heartache. What are you going to do with that right now? You can't do anything with these things. And it's hard to train the mind because we're forward thinking. [00:13:45:03 - 00:13:45:14] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:13:45:14 - 00:14:00:16] Todd Carmichael But that's what I would do. So at the end of a travel day, I would get my bearings and look how I'd have to navigate the next day. It's the only time I would look into the future. Right. And then stop. Quit it. Now look in the tent. Look at your hands. Look at this tea. Look at whatever I've got just to stay here. [00:14:00:16 - 00:14:02:15] Kimberly McGlonn So when I think about [00:14:04:09 - 00:14:15:18] Kimberly McGlonn your climb, when I was thinking about you coming in through the coffee shop on Frankford Ave, you had already, at that point, you were still leading that company. I'm pretty sure you were still leading that company. [00:14:15:18 - 00:14:16:13] Todd Carmichael Oh yeah, very much so. [00:14:16:13 - 00:14:21:05] Kimberly McGlonn So that was a 27 year run? 28 year run? [00:14:21:05 - 00:14:24:06] Todd Carmichael Yeah, or so. Yeah. 28 until COVID. [00:14:25:08 - 00:14:31:19] Todd Carmichael And then there was all the leadership during COVID, but just at the end of COVID, the circumstances required me exiting. [00:14:31:19 - 00:14:34:05] Kimberly McGlonn What was that? I don't know. This is a story. I don't know. [00:14:35:15 - 00:14:44:11] Todd Carmichael Well, let me put it this way. When people used to ask me what my number was, because if you're La Colombe, there's loads of people who want to buy it. I used to say 90. [00:14:45:13 - 00:14:50:06] Todd Carmichael And what I meant was 90 years old. That's what I meant. There was no number. [00:14:51:23 - 00:15:00:20] Todd Carmichael But by the end of COVID, considering the damage that that virus had on a company like La Colombe, keep in mind, I was the pilot. [00:15:02:00 - 00:15:08:05] Todd Carmichael I had four jet engines and I had 2000 people aboard. And one by one, each of those engines went out. [00:15:08:05 - 00:15:08:22] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:15:08:22 - 00:15:19:22] Todd Carmichael And there was a little bit of one engine. I'm just trying to keep it off the ground. So we lost a lot of altitude. And I was unwilling to throw anyone out. So I kept paying, I kept doing it. So [00:15:21:00 - 00:15:28:21] Todd Carmichael it got itself into such a financial mess that it needed to have someone come in and inject. [00:15:28:21 - 00:15:29:08] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:15:29:08 - 00:15:30:05] Todd Carmichael And [00:15:31:08 - 00:15:33:08] Todd Carmichael they did, but they didn't want partners. [00:15:33:08 - 00:15:34:14] Kimberly McGlonn Okay. All right. [00:15:34:14 - 00:15:41:00] Todd Carmichael And so it was like, it wasn't Sophie's choice, but it kind of felt like it. You know, it's like, okay, [00:15:42:01 - 00:15:59:23] Todd Carmichael this is what I have to do for this company to survive. I'll do it. And I guess that bleeds me into like, if you ever ask me, I mean, you know, what's the most traumatic, awful thing to happen in my life? I don't know if it's that one, but that was the most troubling to me. And it was trouble that lasted a long time. [00:15:59:23 - 00:16:26:19] Kimberly McGlonn What was that like? I mean, I imagine as someone who started a company, Grant Blvd, and there was moments for sure when I, at least in the public, I think conclusion, we were synonymous. Like that company was me. Kimberly was Grant Blvd. That's how they knew me. That was my identity, at least in the gaze of other people. I remember having to grieve that separation when I made the decision to sunset that. [00:16:26:19 - 00:17:20:08] Todd Carmichael Well, for me, I mean, that's part of the company. I mean, you lose... Yeah, I was thinking the entire time, you know, that I'm still just Todd Carmichael, you know, a guy showed up in Philly with a couple hundred bucks in his pocket. I'm so grounded. I'm so... No, no, I've woven that company into my personality to such a degree that when I tried to pull the plants apart, I just ripped all my roots out, right? And so, yeah, you lose your identity. But what you lose, what I lost, which is huge, was I lost my obsession. And I hadn't lived without one. Since I was 14, I've never lived without a fully consuming, like, red hot obsession. And that disappears. You don't have that anymore. You lose all your friends, because your friends are the people you work with. So they're gone, right? They're afraid to talk to you now because they're new owners. You know, you lose, your whole house burns down. And you're standing there thinking, "Where do I go from here?" [00:17:20:08 - 00:17:21:12] Kimberly McGlonn And who will I be? [00:17:21:12 - 00:17:30:07] Todd Carmichael And who will I be? And then, of course, you know, apart from the chorus, I made the wrong decision. What is that? I tried to replace the obsession immediately. [00:17:30:07 - 00:17:38:11] Kimberly McGlonn Immediately? Okay. You took no... There was no time off. It was just like, "I gotta start working on a new plane." [00:17:38:11 - 00:17:58:04] Todd Carmichael Yeah, that's what I did. And when you're doing it with this really small team and just yourself, really, in a lot of ways, that requires even more anxiety, even more than you've ever had, right? Because, you know, you do it once and you're lucky, but you do it twice and you're a genius, right? So that second one is the big pressure. [00:17:58:04 - 00:18:15:07] Kimberly McGlonn Right. That reminds me of those talents that we see like, Lauryn Hill, where they drop that 1EP or D'Angelo, and they just... It's so hard to outdo yourself that sometimes you stay in the lane that you know, and you kind of [00:18:16:14 - 00:18:17:08] Kimberly McGlonn float adrift a [00:18:17:08 - 00:18:36:14] Todd Carmichael bit. And you're not in the lane because, you know, when you force a guy like me to exit a company, then you're going to tie them down with non-competes. So you can't go back and you can't be Lauryn Hill. Right. No, you have to learn how to play the harmonica or something. Right. Right. So there's a shift in it. I mean, it's still beverage. [00:18:37:21 - 00:18:51:13] Todd Carmichael But this requires even more force to get it done. And, you know, it's great. I created patents and innovation. People wanted to buy it. It's all very lovely. But in my soul, I was just empty. Right. It just wasn't doing it. [00:18:51:13 - 00:18:53:08] Kimberly McGlonn What are you learning about that, like [00:18:54:22 - 00:18:58:02] Kimberly McGlonn the soothing of that? Have you learned anything yet? [00:18:58:02 - 00:19:01:22] Todd Carmichael Well, you know, nature kind of stepped in and I got a stroke. [00:19:03:03 - 00:19:04:12] Todd Carmichael And now, [00:19:05:16 - 00:19:10:00] Todd Carmichael you know, in so many ways, I thought I lost my youth in COVID, but hell no, I really did. [00:19:10:00 - 00:19:11:12] Kimberly McGlonn I was like, damn it, that was nothing. [00:19:11:12 - 00:19:16:03] Todd Carmichael You're just laying in this hospital room looking at the ceiling and you can't talk. [00:19:17:05 - 00:19:36:10] Todd Carmichael And that's all I really rely on. I'm not sure I'm going to talk again. And yeah, so this is how the whole thing now I've got to get out of this. How do I do this? Which way out from here, you know? And that's where I started to slow it down, think through it and actually rely on other people [00:19:37:14 - 00:19:40:04] Todd Carmichael for their advice. And of course, that was my big sister. [00:19:41:08 - 00:19:56:03] Todd Carmichael And I called her up and I didn't, I never want her to know that I'm suffering because she can't take that, right? But I kind of laid out where I was. And like always, she gave me the greatest advice in the world. She said, honey, you got to learn how to flounder. [00:19:57:17 - 00:19:59:03] Todd Carmichael It's okay to flounder. [00:20:00:10 - 00:20:10:07] Todd Carmichael I said, stop focusing on one thing. When you're floundering, you can just look at everything. Give yourself that ability. You've been marching for it since we made an agreement. [00:20:11:10 - 00:20:22:17] Todd Carmichael The world is full of poor people and we are a part of that group. I mean, in fact, a hyper majority. Single mom, minimum wage for kids. So you can paint the picture. [00:20:22:17 - 00:20:23:20] Kimberly McGlonn You're the middle in the middle? [00:20:23:20 - 00:20:36:14] Todd Carmichael I'm second. But my older sister is, older sisters in environments like that, they tend to... They're maternal. Yeah, their skill set is crazy. And we had made an agreement when I was 18 [00:20:37:17 - 00:21:01:09] Todd Carmichael that we weren't going to live this way. That we were going to fight back. We were going to give everything we got. And she ended up getting like three undergraduate degrees, couple of masters, she's got a PhD. Brilliant one. She's a professor, brilliant. And I took this crazy stupid idea of coffee and turned it into a billion dollar coffee. So we got there, but she said, but we made a huge mistake when we made that agreement. We didn't say when we could stop. [00:21:02:11 - 00:21:07:02] Todd Carmichael And I said, it's stop time now, Todd. Just flounder. And so I did. [00:21:08:04 - 00:21:09:09] Todd Carmichael I just fell. [00:21:12:09 - 00:21:49:21] Kimberly McGlonn As a founder, I built several successful companies. And along the way, I was making major money decisions all by myself. It was stressful and it was lonely. And that's the gap that Learn to Swim Collective seeks to close. It's a collection of business leaders and advisors who are all helping you make decisions on how to make your life one that is worth living and building money that is worth enjoying. It helps me to imagine with abundance, to build with diversity and to protect my assets. Your future is what you create. Let Learn to Swim be your financial guide. Click the show notes for more information. [00:21:53:04 - 00:21:57:22] Kimberly McGlonn What did that floundering teach you? And because there is privilege in that being nowhere. [00:21:59:07 - 00:22:05:05] Kimberly McGlonn There can be if you know how to see it, if you know how to sculpt it. [00:22:06:15 - 00:22:30:17] Todd Carmichael It's like you release something. And Buddhism, they say, that's the key to power, is being able to release stuff. And so I decided to release a big piece of what I was holding on in my guts. Right. And I decided not to focus on just one particular thing. As I'm falling with all these other snowflakes, I can examine them as I'm falling. [00:22:32:03 - 00:22:45:01] Todd Carmichael And then someone offered me, well, a number of people offered me to do some consulting back in coffee. And I thought, well, that's harmless, you know. But I still kind of treated it like floundering. I [00:22:46:05 - 00:22:49:11] Todd Carmichael promised myself innovating in coffee yet. [00:22:49:11 - 00:22:52:14] Kimberly McGlonn Right. But you still were being called to coffee. [00:22:52:14 - 00:22:56:19] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Yeah. And I started seeing pieces. [00:22:58:07 - 00:23:09:04] Todd Carmichael Not things that I invented, but pieces that could be molded and turned. And then I started thinking of systems. And then I started realizing, I know where I belong. That was the big one. [00:23:10:08 - 00:23:16:19] Todd Carmichael I don't belong climbing the coffee mountain anymore. I've already climbed it. I belong as a Sherpa. [00:23:18:08 - 00:23:19:09] Todd Carmichael That's where I belong. [00:23:20:17 - 00:23:30:20] Todd Carmichael I don't want to go in and steal the lunch from the Rival Bros or Bean to Bean. I don't want to go and elbow these guys all the way up to the mountain again. I don't want to do that. [00:23:31:22 - 00:24:02:02] Todd Carmichael I want to lay line for them. I want to make sure that the tent is waiting for them at 26,000 feet. This is what I want to do. I want to lift. And I want to lift, fill it off your roasters and brands the highest I can. And I go, oh, yeah. And what space do I want to do that? Well, like everyone knows I'm the godfather of cold brew. So I know it's being done in a medieval way. It's got to be done in a modern way. And so I started putting those things together. And now [00:24:03:07 - 00:24:13:16] Todd Carmichael I'm in coffee. And now I have a factory that does just that. I was just over at Bean to Bean, giving him the stuff he needs. And it's so much fun. To be on the other side. Just being here and helping. [00:24:13:16 - 00:24:15:17] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. That was one thing that you said to me [00:24:17:00 - 00:24:34:08] Kimberly McGlonn in that sun setting of Grant Blvd that relieved me of the anxiety of needing to hold on to the pressure of some notion that I inherited of success and failure. You told me that I didn't have to climb the mountain that I could be the mountain. I had done enough. [00:24:34:08 - 00:25:18:20] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Yeah. You were around when I was fumbling around for that. Like, I need to know one, that I can advance whatever's happening. If I'm going to come in and make something that everyone's already making, I'm not going to do it. There's no waste of everyone's time. And especially mine. So I have to be able to add. Right? And then I have to know who I am and what my role is. And once I got those, then it's just like, okay, we can do this. And when I was struggling with what position or role I play on that mountain, I was like, am I on the top like a guru? Am I the mountain? Am I at the base? Am I halfway through? Where am I? And then it occurred to me, the greatest mountains require Sherpas. [00:25:20:06 - 00:25:24:14] Todd Carmichael You cannot get 30,000 feet in the sky and I have rest without a Sherpa. [00:25:24:14 - 00:25:25:03] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:25:25:03 - 00:25:32:14] Todd Carmichael And I don't think that you can make this whole voyage on your own nowadays with the environment the way it is without a Sherpa. [00:25:32:14 - 00:25:33:00] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:25:33:00 - 00:25:38:11] Todd Carmichael And that's what I want to do in a cold space. But obviously everyone talks to me about the hot space. [00:25:38:11 - 00:25:40:23] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. You have expertise. [00:25:40:23 - 00:25:44:17] Todd Carmichael So of course I want to go there. You come, you sit, I'll tell you everything. [00:25:44:17 - 00:26:12:19] Kimberly McGlonn One of the things that I was thinking about in the metaphor of the Sherpa, but also in something you said about not having the time is how you're thinking about time in general these days. Now that you've gone through more than one, building something, letting it go, that releasing. And now in this new journey of building something new and placing that in the context of the precarity of our health and the finality of just how much time we have. [00:26:12:19 - 00:26:13:10] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:26:13:10 - 00:26:18:21] Kimberly McGlonn How are you thinking about time on this side of that ascension, dissension experience? [00:26:18:21 - 00:26:20:20] Todd Carmichael Yeah. It's funny, [00:26:21:21 - 00:26:32:22] Todd Carmichael I spent so much of my life thinking I was way older than I was. I remember I didn't start La Colombe until I was 30. And I thought, wow, I was ancient and I was old and I was like- [00:26:32:22 - 00:26:33:12] Kimberly McGlonn Behind. [00:26:33:12 - 00:27:09:08] Todd Carmichael Yeah. And then I didn't get married until I was 40. So I thought, oh my God, I'm so far back. I had kids at 45. So I spent this whole life thinking I was already really old. So now I'm putting it into question because now I go, yeah, you do have a limited amount of time. Now you can actually count it on your fingers at the time. So what it means is that your decision should be to take that into consideration. You shouldn't shy away from it, but just really take an extra second to make sure you're doing the right thing. Because you can't afford to just bone another four years. [00:27:09:08 - 00:27:09:20] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:27:09:20 - 00:27:31:15] Todd Carmichael I could. In my 20s, I did it. I just went off into the world. I lived on a little sailboat in the south of France. The years would just be by and I would just experience and it was all just, well, it felt like it was on someone else's dime. I can't do that anymore. Now minutes matter. Now, so you make decisions with that. [00:27:34:01 - 00:27:37:15] Todd Carmichael What mattered to me most is my kids, [00:27:38:16 - 00:27:57:23] Todd Carmichael support them, make sure that their dreams are on track. Right. And Lauren, my wife, our family, that's key. And then I look over and say, now it's about other people too. It's about Jonathan at Bean to Bean. It's about Damien over at Rival Bros. It's about [00:27:59:06 - 00:27:59:23] Todd Carmichael Philly. [00:28:01:06 - 00:28:26:04] Todd Carmichael In 1994, when I started, everyone would ask me, like, why are you here? That was the biggest question. Why did you choose this? Why Philly? It's like constantly for years. That's all right. Because it was mystifying that someone would come from France and come and set up shop here. Right. There's always been this kind of like this part of Philadelphia that doesn't understand itself, right? Doesn't understand how beautiful and powerful it can be. [00:28:27:15 - 00:28:34:02] Todd Carmichael And I would say I've come here to make Philadelphia the place where the rest of America comes for their coffee. [00:28:34:02 - 00:28:34:13] Kimberly McGlonn Wow. [00:28:34:13 - 00:28:39:09] Todd Carmichael This is why I'm here. Okay. I had four customers in one cafe, but I had a vision. [00:28:39:09 - 00:28:41:02] Kimberly McGlonn And I got a start and I got a vision. [00:28:41:02 - 00:28:41:22] Todd Carmichael And it ain't over. [00:28:41:22 - 00:28:43:19] Kimberly McGlonn No, it's not over. [00:28:43:19 - 00:28:49:00] Todd Carmichael That ain't over. It's just not. Now we have 50 roasters in this city now. 50. [00:28:49:00 - 00:28:49:18] Kimberly McGlonn Wow. [00:28:49:18 - 00:28:50:06] Todd Carmichael Right. [00:28:50:06 - 00:28:52:04] Kimberly McGlonn When you started, there was one? [00:28:52:04 - 00:28:57:08] Todd Carmichael I got here, there were three, but they're industrial. And then soon after I launched, then they disappeared. [00:28:57:08 - 00:28:57:17] Kimberly McGlonn Wow. [00:28:57:17 - 00:28:59:13] Todd Carmichael For a long time, there was just one. [00:28:59:13 - 00:29:00:15] Kimberly McGlonn That's crazy. [00:29:00:15 - 00:29:02:06] Todd Carmichael I know. I know, but I can [00:29:03:14 - 00:29:08:05] Todd Carmichael make a life hard on people. Yeah. Not in a vicious way, but in a... Hey, man. [00:29:08:05 - 00:29:10:01] Kimberly McGlonn You a good product? Take care of my people. [00:29:10:01 - 00:29:15:08] Todd Carmichael I service the shit out of you. That's right. I give you the best coffee on the planet. That's right. And I don't completely gouge you. Yeah. [00:29:15:08 - 00:29:18:03] Kimberly McGlonn It's hard to compete with that calculation. [00:29:18:03 - 00:29:21:00] Todd Carmichael But now we've got this like [00:29:22:17 - 00:29:31:10] Todd Carmichael a music city with all 50 bands that all have this beautiful potential, but no one's noticed us yet. Well, let's get on the radar. [00:29:31:10 - 00:29:35:09] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. Yeah. And now you get to be the conductor in another sense. [00:29:35:09 - 00:29:59:01] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Look, it started in Seattle, then Portland took over, then Brooklyn took over, and then Philadelphia had it for a short, hot minute, but I want it back because we didn't have it long enough. And let Memphis try to take it away from us. This is what we're going to do. And in order to do that, you got to drive on two cylinders. You got to have your roasted coffee and you got to have your cold coffee. And that cold coffee had better be the best in the world. And it is now. [00:29:59:01 - 00:30:02:13] Kimberly McGlonn That sounds like life force. [00:30:02:13 - 00:30:09:23] Todd Carmichael Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. That is what... And so I'm looking around, I'm waking guys up in the morning, "Oh, come on, get some breakfast. Let's get going." [00:30:09:23 - 00:30:12:10] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. We got stuff to do. [00:30:12:10 - 00:30:13:01] Todd Carmichael We got shit to do. [00:30:13:01 - 00:30:36:08] Kimberly McGlonn We got to get it done. What is the downtime looking like for you? I know you just came back from Africa, you got to spend some time away on the continent. When you're here, what is the thing, the practices that you're discovering that help you to just get breath of thought and breath in your body so that you can have the space to iterate, to continue to envision? [00:30:37:19 - 00:31:18:19] Todd Carmichael Well, my life is split up. So one is when I'm at home, right? And my habit is just to follow my family around and do whatever they're doing. I just do that. Being present with them fully. We're watching a movie. We're watching a movie. Before cooking, we're cooking. I accommodate what everybody wants to do. The other half of the time, I'm in an airplane and moving around and following my son. And he's an elite athlete. He's 15, but he lives away from home and he's a hockey player. And I want to be there. So it's dad and son on the road together still. And I don't know if you've ever followed a 15-year-old athlete around. You do have a lot of downtime waiting. [00:31:18:19 - 00:31:19:09] Kimberly McGlonn Quite a thing. [00:31:19:09 - 00:31:21:08] Todd Carmichael He's just sitting in a bugging car [00:31:23:13 - 00:31:24:04] Todd Carmichael waiting. [00:31:24:04 - 00:31:26:16] Todd Carmichael Do I need another cup of coffee? Probably shouldn't. [00:31:26:16 - 00:31:30:00] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. Read a book or two. [00:31:30:00 - 00:31:32:19] Todd Carmichael And I have this habit. I speak to myself. [00:31:34:03 - 00:31:35:08] Kimberly McGlonn You speak to yourself. [00:31:35:08 - 00:31:35:21] Todd Carmichael To, yeah. [00:31:35:21 - 00:31:36:18] Kimberly McGlonn What do you say? [00:31:36:18 - 00:31:39:20] Todd Carmichael I have extended conversations. I just always have. [00:31:39:20 - 00:31:40:01] Kimberly McGlonn Okay. [00:31:40:01 - 00:31:41:00] Todd Carmichael I [00:31:42:19 - 00:31:44:17] Todd Carmichael find that I find truths that way. [00:31:46:01 - 00:32:07:20] Todd Carmichael And what happens is ideas that just run around in your head, they don't become real yet until you give them life. And that is through my mouth. And so when I'm driving or showering or waiting in a hotel room for my kid, I'm carrying on extensive conversations with myself. And I don't know if that's super healthy, but it works for me. [00:32:07:20 - 00:32:14:06] Kimberly McGlonn You're bringing it into the world. That's your process of bringing something from your head into the world. [00:32:14:06 - 00:32:29:13] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Especially delicate ideas. You know those delicate ideas that just don't they don't have enough edge to them, hold on to them until you say them. And so, yeah. So I do that. And I'm a storyteller. I think I love telling stories. [00:32:30:22 - 00:32:33:09] Todd Carmichael And I also tell myself stories. [00:32:33:09 - 00:32:35:13] Kimberly McGlonn About yourself, about other people. [00:32:35:13 - 00:32:42:12] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Yeah. I have really fond memories from my past, you know. [00:32:43:20 - 00:33:05:22] Todd Carmichael And being young and my sisters, my mom, and stuff like that. And my mom was sick. And she kind of always held court at this little table in our kitchen. And she was always drinking coffee. Always. Until midnight. I mean, this woman, I mean, it's Folgers, but she's going to sweet with the powdered milk. Another cup. Another cup. Oh, yeah. [00:33:05:22 - 00:33:07:15] Kimberly McGlonn She got the old school. I do know that way. [00:33:07:15 - 00:33:33:09] Todd Carmichael Yeah. It was like a dessert, really, rather than coffee. And my mom could take anything, like a trip to the store and turn it into a fucking hilarious story. And when she was done, she expected you to tell her a story. And so this was kind of our love language, was storytelling. And then you exaggerating the shit maybe. And then you could tell the same story over and over. And it'd be just by changing pieces and adding another bit. [00:33:33:09 - 00:33:33:19] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:33:33:19 - 00:33:44:14] Todd Carmichael And yeah. So storytelling is a big part of who I am. And not everybody wants to hear stories all the time. So I tell them to myself. [00:33:47:03 - 00:33:48:08] Todd Carmichael It's like playing solitaire. [00:33:48:08 - 00:33:48:18] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:33:48:18 - 00:33:49:23] Todd Carmichael You're playing cards. [00:33:49:23 - 00:33:52:03] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. You're entertaining yourself. [00:33:55:12 - 00:33:54:17] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. You're just entertaining yourself. [00:33:56:16 - 00:33:59:12] Kimberly McGlonn You learned to fly? Do you fly at all? [00:33:59:12 - 00:34:17:23] Todd Carmichael No. I'm funny. I have an aversion to adrenaline. Even with all the world records, doesn't matter. If you really look at them, none of them included in adrenaline. So flying endurance, it horrifies me. I've put millions of miles on airplanes, but what you don't know is I'm clenching. [00:34:17:23 - 00:34:25:12] Kimberly McGlonn I just hate flying. Wow. Yeah. It's so wild how [00:34:26:19 - 00:34:42:02] Kimberly McGlonn life forces us and gives us at the same time this opportunity to reinvent ourselves. And we have to decide, are we going to stay in the same book? Are we going to... Is it a new chapter? Is it a new book? That thinking about the life we get to decide for ourselves? [00:34:42:02 - 00:34:44:05] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Like Spider-Man. [00:34:45:07 - 00:34:45:19] Kimberly McGlonn How so? [00:34:45:19 - 00:34:50:05] Todd Carmichael Seems like every version you read, it's different slightly in some way. [00:34:51:08 - 00:34:52:23] Kimberly McGlonn I just saw the most recent one. That's the only one I've ever seen. [00:34:52:23 - 00:34:57:09] Todd Carmichael The author says, "He's going to be buff." Or anything. He's going to be more dark. He's going to be [00:34:58:18 - 00:35:05:16] Todd Carmichael a teenager. They decide before setting out what version are we going to do. He's still Spider-Man. [00:35:05:16 - 00:35:07:18] Kimberly McGlonn Right. But it's a different take. [00:35:07:18 - 00:35:08:08] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:35:08:08 - 00:35:33:17] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. I wish that more of us understood that we had a good degree of control over who we will be. Yeah. Even in the moments that we have to navigate the floundering, that on the other side of that, what can emerge through the grief and the loss and the confusion is opportunity to sculpt in a way who we become. [00:35:33:17 - 00:35:35:14] Todd Carmichael And I guess what you put there too, [00:35:36:16 - 00:35:41:15] Todd Carmichael it's not the difficulty in that. It's living through the delay. [00:35:44:02 - 00:35:44:20] Todd Carmichael Here [00:35:46:15 - 00:35:55:15] Todd Carmichael they have world record holding, tracking, CEO with television, so growing companies apart with new innovation. [00:35:55:15 - 00:36:21:23] Todd Carmichael That's the guy you are. And then here, I'm this cold brew guy supporting things. Both are nice people and the people I enjoy being. But it's the delay between the two that is where you suffer. And so you have to allow yourself that delay is what my sister, I think, was saying. It's like allow yourself not to have a perch yet. [00:36:23:11 - 00:36:26:23] Todd Carmichael It takes time to morph a human being into the next version. [00:36:28:20 - 00:36:33:21] Todd Carmichael It's like a cocoon and a butterfly and all that. It doesn't happen in a week. [00:36:33:21 - 00:36:34:14] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:36:34:14 - 00:36:48:11] Todd Carmichael There's things to process, there's things to let go of, there's all this. But just give yourself a freaking break. That's, I think, what she was trying to say. But we can do it. It's just not automatic. [00:36:52:13 - 00:36:54:15] Kimberly McGlonn No, it's not automatic and it's not taught. [00:36:55:16 - 00:36:56:01] Todd Carmichael No. [00:36:56:01 - 00:36:58:04] Kimberly McGlonn So there is a vacuum [00:36:59:07 - 00:37:03:06] Kimberly McGlonn where there's just anxiety and then not knowing, which is very normal. [00:37:03:06 - 00:37:04:16] Todd Carmichael The fear that it won't come. [00:37:04:16 - 00:37:07:06] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. Yeah. The fear that it won't come. [00:37:07:06 - 00:37:08:07] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:37:08:07 - 00:37:21:07] Kimberly McGlonn Is the work life pursuit that being with family and being at Cold Brew Foundry, is it different than it was with La Colombe now that you're beginning again? How is that different? [00:37:21:07 - 00:37:43:16] Todd Carmichael Well, you have to fight yourself for a while because it's super easy just to fall back in to how you approached everything. And I have this, I guess, mathematical algebraic formula in my head. It's energy times aptitude equals accomplishment. [00:37:43:16 - 00:37:48:16] Kimberly McGlonn Energy times aptitude equals accomplishment. [00:37:48:16 - 00:37:49:21] Todd Carmichael And I'm [00:37:51:10 - 00:37:53:05] Todd Carmichael not the smartest guy in the room. [00:37:54:12 - 00:38:49:01] Todd Carmichael You may think that I'm smarter than I am, but it's not sheer intelligence that's getting me here. It's the energy piece. And when you're used to dumping hundreds and thousands of gallons of fuel on a fire, you tend to want to do that again. So you go, "Wait a minute. There's the time piece. Just include time. Let that time be bigger." And now you can let the energy decrease. Your aptitude's here. Now you can accomplish. Okay. This formula is a new formula. It involves tea before I gave myself no time. I mean, I built a $25 million factory that creates product that no one has ever made ever. Brand new invention, Draft Latte, nitrous oxide dissolved in it. The moment I saw the land and first can was only one year. [00:38:49:01 - 00:38:52:04] Kimberly McGlonn I mean, that's like lightning fast. [00:38:52:04 - 00:39:10:22] Todd Carmichael I had a bed in the factory. That's what I did. And if you tried to leave before midnight, you would hear from me. I was pushing, pushing. I didn't allow tea into the equation time. And now I do. I go, "Well, I wanted to launch this thing January. It [00:39:11:22 - 00:39:12:23] Todd Carmichael launched in August." [00:39:12:23 - 00:39:14:15] Kimberly McGlonn Why the shift? [00:39:15:21 - 00:39:16:05] Todd Carmichael Well, [00:39:17:18 - 00:39:21:10] Todd Carmichael first I want my wife to continue to love me. That's important. [00:39:21:10 - 00:39:23:00] Kimberly McGlonn That is very important. [00:39:23:00 - 00:39:31:18] Todd Carmichael Shout out to Lauren. Because I was always making home for dinner, but I'm up at four. [00:39:33:00 - 00:39:49:15] Todd Carmichael And we sacrificed for our kids and our house. That sacrifices behind us now. And now I'm thinking, "Listen, we don't need anything. We're pretty good. So that we don't have that. We're going to both just buck up bunny and [00:39:49:15 - 00:39:57:08] Kimberly McGlonn make it work, make it happen." So less urgency. Is that because of the sale of La Colombe I can't [00:40:00:05 - 00:40:06:23] Kimberly McGlonn ask [00:40:06:23 - 00:40:11:15] Todd Carmichael someone to put up with that kind of guy when it's not necessary. [00:40:11:15 - 00:40:12:06] Kimberly McGlonn That part. [00:40:12:06 - 00:40:16:18] Todd Carmichael Okay. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that kind of guy is exhausting. [00:40:16:18 - 00:40:20:08] Kimberly McGlonn Right. And we don't need that. So why are we living with him? [00:40:20:08 - 00:40:24:03] Todd Carmichael Number two, you get one stroke. You should listen. [00:40:25:05 - 00:40:35:07] Todd Carmichael So racking yourself up with all this anxiety and all the stress and all this cortisol and pushing like there's no tomorrow, isn't necessary either. And it's not good for me. [00:40:35:07 - 00:40:36:07] Kimberly McGlonn Yes, not sustainable. [00:40:36:07 - 00:40:44:03] Todd Carmichael So you have that as a reminder. I get the scares once in a while and think, "Oh, gosh, it's like if I had a bad ticker, you got to be conscious of this." [00:40:45:09 - 00:40:49:01] Todd Carmichael The world [00:40:50:13 - 00:40:54:01] Todd Carmichael is kind of pushing me into this modality and it's working. [00:40:57:08 - 00:41:58:06] Kimberly McGlonn As an advisor, I've set across the table from people who did everything right and still felt like something was missing because no one ever asked them what the wealth was actually for. They made money, but didn't know how to shepherd it. That's why I point people to the Learn to Swim Collective, a community of business leaders and advisors building wealth that actually reflects a life worth enjoying. Money isn't just for collecting. It's for creating opportunities, better relationships, room to rest, and a legacy built around what matters most. So much regret comes from never making that a priority. The Learn to Swim Collective is built around staying curious, leaning into your strengths, and enjoying the journey. It's community that will help you to think with abundance, to build with focus, and to increase your financial impact. Your future is what you create. Let Learn to Swim be your guide. Head to ltscollective.com for more information. [00:41:58:06 - 00:42:01:06] (End Playback) [00:42:01:06 - 00:42:30:16] Kimberly McGlonn You said it was the-- I'm trying to remind this that this equation is energy, now time, plus aptitude equals accomplishment. What would you say are those accomplishments that really, as you look at the portfolio of your life, sit surface is like, I'm really, really glad that I got that through to the end. Or I'm really, really glad that I went for that, even if it didn't end up being a part of what other people might perceive as defined success. [00:42:30:16 - 00:42:34:23] Todd Carmichael Yeah. You got to go back where it all started, where the fire started. [00:42:40:01 - 00:42:46:18] Todd Carmichael I decided that I was going to take the opportunity that had been offered me to go to university. [00:42:48:14 - 00:42:52:18] Todd Carmichael At that point, I was lined up to be a driver of a delivery truck. [00:42:53:19 - 00:42:57:16] Todd Carmichael And that looked better to me. And it seemed safe to me. [00:42:58:19 - 00:43:09:14] Todd Carmichael I'm this kind of guy. This is where I was born. This is what I know. I want to have to leave my town. And my sister and I both collectively decided that's not what we're going to do. [00:43:10:16 - 00:43:19:13] Todd Carmichael And so I decided that I would just gun it and see what happened. And yeah, I've been gunning it all the way up to the point where I got a stroke. [00:43:20:16 - 00:43:24:13] Todd Carmichael And I just went, OK. All right. Everything that's ever happened to me, [00:43:25:16 - 00:43:41:01] Todd Carmichael I mean, I can tell you stories. The things that I've done on this planet, I've been to three quarters of the world's countries, every continent, royalties, superstars. I mean, I've met the Queen of England. I've done so much because of that throttle. [00:43:41:01 - 00:43:41:11] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:43:41:11 - 00:43:59:21] Todd Carmichael I've sailed the Atlantic. I've walked across Antarctica. I've climbed the highest mountains. You've lived. I've lived. I've hit the gas. And so if the question is, what did that philosophy bring you? This. It'd bring me sitting here. I wouldn't be here. It's true. You would not be talking to me, Todd. [00:44:01:05 - 00:44:04:03] Todd Carmichael I would be delivering Pepsi. [00:44:05:06 - 00:44:06:06] Todd Carmichael A nice union job. [00:44:06:06 - 00:44:07:08] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, in Washington State. [00:44:07:08 - 00:44:12:10] Todd Carmichael You know, but there was just this kind of a cord. [00:44:12:10 - 00:44:13:22] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, that pulled you. [00:44:13:22 - 00:45:51:13] Todd Carmichael Women didn't go to school. And when in the 70s and early 80s, my sister wasn't supposed to go to school and I was too dumb. I had a 2.0 GPA. I could run really fast, though, and far. That was the deal. So everybody wanted me to go to school so I could win races for them. And I didn't run because I was looking for a scholarship. I like to retroactively say I was because that fits the story. But the story was I was just doing it because I'm freaking. Because you could. No, I have a mental disease. I do clearly have. I mean, I do. I'm being diagnosed and running helps my head. The only reason I was doing it because it helped me focus. Right. It helped me that way. It wasn't about going to a D1 school. But then when I got there, I realized if you gun it really hard, you can get good grades. And then suddenly I've got a 3.8 GPA just by gunning it. Right. And I'm like, this gunning shit is working. I'm only sleeping three hours a day, but I had to teach myself math. I had to read all the books that everyone read in high school. I had to do all that to catch up. And after that, I realized there's nothing stopping me now. I could, if I just throw energy at it, it'll work out. So, you know, I just learned this way of doing things. And then I realized that there was this canvas that was given me. Right. It's a huge, huge canvas and all these colors. Well, at first you get just a couple of colors, but then over your life, you get more. And that the real whole, the whole purpose of this whole existence is what do you paint? [00:45:52:22 - 00:46:08:20] Todd Carmichael What's it going to be? And I wanted the most vibrant, irrational colors possible. I wanted Pollock on steroids. Right. And that's why I do stuff. It's weird. Why did you floated four months in the South Pacific on a raft? [00:46:08:20 - 00:46:09:05] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:46:10:15 - 00:46:13:05] Todd Carmichael That's blue. Okay. That was the, and I. [00:46:13:05 - 00:46:14:17] Kimberly McGlonn Serious blue, vibrant blue. [00:46:14:17 - 00:46:17:15] Todd Carmichael Yeah. And I just kept doing that. [00:46:17:15 - 00:46:48:22] Kimberly McGlonn I love the poetry of that, of that approach of like my life is, is, it's my canvas. It is. And no matter what colors that I get, I get to tell them I will have to, I will be given to me and others I'll get to choose. Or you mix. Or you mix them. Right. And you borrow them, right? Like you'll borrow from someone else's palette until it becomes something that is authentically your own masterpiece. If you choose to just hold that philosophy across the journey. [00:46:48:22 - 00:46:53:20] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Make it loud. Right. Make it, you know, make it irreverent if you'd like. [00:46:53:20 - 00:46:54:07] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:46:54:07 - 00:47:19:17] Todd Carmichael You know, and then, and then a lot of people are going to ask you like, I don't understand. Like you're a coffee guy and you're a this guy and you're that guy. Like how does, how to do, like everyone wanted to understand how those reconciled and you go, they don't, they just belong on the same canvas. They're completely different images. Right. Right. Coffee and trekking across Antarctica are not connected. [00:47:19:17 - 00:47:37:07] Kimberly McGlonn I love that idea though too of thinking about, you know, being really radically accepting of like a multitude of identities and of journeys versus this notion that we have to have a singular, clean narrative arc that is like the story of who we are, that we don't have to choose a single story. [00:47:37:07 - 00:47:38:00] Todd Carmichael No. [00:47:38:00 - 00:47:38:10] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:47:38:10 - 00:47:42:18] Todd Carmichael But you gotta, you can't forget the thrill of this. And this is still important to that. You go, [00:47:43:20 - 00:47:48:08] Todd Carmichael all right, I'll give you an example. It just sticks in my mind. Okay. I'm with an astronaut, [00:47:49:15 - 00:47:51:18] Todd Carmichael like Buzz Aldrin, one of those guys. [00:47:51:18 - 00:47:52:10] Kimberly McGlonn Like literally. [00:47:52:10 - 00:48:16:23] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Yeah. The now king of Saudi Arabia. Okay. And a bunch of guys on a big kind of UN style helicopter and we're flying over the Alps. Okay. And I look over, I look out the window. I don't know if you've ever seen the Alps from above, but it's just sick. The beauty is outrageous. I mean, you cannot believe what you're seeing is so stunning. It's like, and I look around and everyone's reading a newspaper. [00:48:16:23 - 00:48:17:18] Kimberly McGlonn You're not watching. [00:48:17:18 - 00:48:29:23] Todd Carmichael And I'm looking out the window and the, and it's beautiful. But then one image hit me. That was the most outrageous image. It was my own reflection in the glass. And it was this, [00:48:29:23 - 00:48:32:06] Todd Carmichael can you fucking believe you're here? [00:48:33:07 - 00:48:36:03] Todd Carmichael That feeling is the best feeling in the world. [00:48:36:03 - 00:48:55:02] Todd Carmichael So if you're a coffee guy and you're an Antarctica and you hit the South pole, that's exactly what goes through your mind. And that feeling is, it's the beauty of that. It doesn't work. It doesn't fit. And you don't belong, but you did it anyway. Okay. That feeling is the best in the world. And I think that's universal. [00:48:55:02 - 00:49:11:12] Kimberly McGlonn And I think we can have that in a number of environments. Yeah. It's just a matter of like reading the room and being present enough with accepting that this is your circumstance and that there is beauty in that, that there is some beauty. But what's to the person where they haven't experienced that? [00:49:11:12 - 00:49:35:16] Todd Carmichael But you can experience this on any level. Do something that is normally not inside your box. And I don't care if it's like, take it in, whatever, you know, it could be a go play poker in Atlantic city with a bunch of people who know how to play poker and lose, but you're sitting there at the table, you're in it. This is what are you doing here? You're a grandmother, right? It's like, it's the dichotomy. [00:49:35:16 - 00:49:36:03] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:49:36:03 - 00:49:41:21] Todd Carmichael And it doesn't have to be the grandness of the situation. It could be just the foreignness of it. [00:49:41:21 - 00:49:42:10] Kimberly McGlonn Right. [00:49:42:10 - 00:49:45:05] Todd Carmichael You know, go water skiing when you're 72. [00:49:45:05 - 00:49:45:19] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:49:45:19 - 00:49:47:14] Todd Carmichael And go, I can't believe I'm doing this. [00:49:47:14 - 00:49:47:20] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:49:47:20 - 00:50:03:08] Todd Carmichael Yeah. Right. And those things I think are the greatest rewards. And so if you're seeking and you put a string of them together like pearls, you'll be amazed where you are. He will not believe where you end up. [00:50:05:10 - 00:50:05:22] Todd Carmichael It's true. [00:50:07:05 - 00:50:33:13] Kimberly McGlonn I believe you. I've had that, I've had that sensibility for sure. Don't you love that? The wonder and the awe of the reality. And sometimes you're right. It isn't, it isn't the thing that other people might necessarily note as being noteworthy. But when I look at the arc of my life, I can sit for a moment and something that I recognize is, is such a peculiar gift. [00:50:33:13 - 00:50:34:05] Todd Carmichael Yeah. [00:50:34:05 - 00:50:34:20] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah. [00:50:34:20 - 00:50:39:00] Todd Carmichael It doesn't have to be on your normal path. Widened it. [00:50:40:09 - 00:50:51:13] Todd Carmichael Take a detour. It's fine. The path you're on will still be there. Just remember where it's at. Deviate off. If it is on your path, you have those too. You know, it's like the first time I bet you taught a class. [00:50:52:18 - 00:50:56:04] Todd Carmichael Did you see yourself as a little girl just for a second and say, Oh my [00:50:56:04 - 00:51:21:03] Kimberly McGlonn God, I'm the teacher. No, I'm the teacher. I've finally done it. These kids have to listen to me. I actually do vaguely remember that sense of like, of just of like shock and thrill. And I think that that's what you, what you've been able to do with your life is to ride the wave, right? Recognizing that it will, it'll crescent, right? And it'll fall. And, [00:51:21:03 - 00:51:54:05] Todd Carmichael and the big part of it is, you know, you have to win lottery, you know, and, and the lottery is, as, you know, as disappointed as we are sometimes in this country, the lottery is being born here at this time. You know, for me, being born in 1963 was key, right? It was really key because I just, I come into coffee in Seattle in 1982. Starbucks had three cafes and it was just, it was run, it was run like a family business. And they would just hire a kid like me off the street. [00:51:54:05 - 00:52:25:21] Kimberly McGlonn Yeah, I do. And I still do believe that those opportunities of like, uh, rather it's the moonshot, right? Or it's like you build the thing that takes unusual rocket fuel and for whatever reason you're able to accumulate enough to, to, to take off in that, that really rare star of a project. Or it's simply like the, the energy that's required to transcend what anyone in your family has done before or to recover from a crazy health crisis. That all of those things are these really, uh, [00:52:27:08 - 00:52:43:11] Kimberly McGlonn that is life. All of those things are just pathways to figuring out how you're making the world of it. And we have to keep orienting our gaze towards that sensibility about reality, even as we're watching a world on fire, right? And a country in the middle of [00:52:44:21 - 00:52:46:10] Kimberly McGlonn navigating what it's about, [00:52:47:11 - 00:53:14:00] Kimberly McGlonn what it's really gonna, what it's really gonna choose for itself. You know, but I think about for the person who's listening to us talk and, and maybe they've, they've already heard of La Colombe, which most of us have at this point. And maybe that means they haven't heard of you, right? On the back end of that. But now they are discovering the fuller scope of your life and your journey, its complexities, right? That it hasn't always been just like a, a crystal staircase, as they say, right? [00:53:15:09 - 00:53:27:13] Kimberly McGlonn What would you say to that person who was in a fire that might be, um, the company that they have to sunset or, um, the recovery that [00:53:29:05 - 00:53:41:04] Kimberly McGlonn feels really uncertain right now? About the work they have to do in that, in that moment of the unknown. Yeah. And then I'm gonna just, you can tell them, you don't even know, don't tell me. [00:53:42:14 - 00:53:53:23] Todd Carmichael What I know over all these years and what I've learned and being out there in the world that most everyone has experienced fire and most all of them have experienced fire worse than mine. [00:53:55:01 - 00:53:57:19] Todd Carmichael And with that in mind, I would say first, you know, [00:53:58:21 - 00:54:19:12] Todd Carmichael give yourself a little minute to recover and find your bearings, right? Let yourself, like my sister said, let yourself flounder a little bit. It's okay. You don't have to be productive every minute of your life. You really don't. Now this is an opportunity for you to stop, take stock, breathe, [00:54:20:13 - 00:54:39:07] Todd Carmichael you know, and during this process, try to let go of things. It's the things from the past, right? They're ghosts. Ghosts, they're not real. The past isn't truly real. It's gone. It's dead. It's behind you. So don't bring it forward, particularly the difficult parts. Don't bring those forward. [00:54:40:10 - 00:54:52:08] Todd Carmichael It's time to define your real power by letting go of things and giving yourself a moment to flounder. And what happens is the universe has this tendency to produce hints [00:54:53:21 - 00:55:01:07] Todd Carmichael and clues. There's going to be little, you know, ribbons on trees for you to follow, right? It will happen. [00:55:02:10 - 00:55:08:00] Todd Carmichael It happened to me. It took time. I'd get a telephone call from someone or [00:55:09:00 - 00:55:09:18] Todd Carmichael someone would [00:55:11:08 - 00:55:16:21] Todd Carmichael do something to inspire me. And they're all around you, but you have to give them a chance to do that. [00:55:18:01 - 00:55:23:02] Todd Carmichael And then finally, it's a matter of just doing what you've always done, and that's never given up. [00:55:24:09 - 00:55:28:18] Todd Carmichael I mean, you can do that. That's what got you here, and that's what's going to get you all the way into the future. [00:55:29:22 - 00:55:31:12] Todd Carmichael The thing that will change [00:55:32:16 - 00:55:37:08] Todd Carmichael isn't significant enough to change your happiness. [00:55:38:12 - 00:55:46:20] Todd Carmichael No, it's not. It's just you're in a moment right now where you're moving from one set of rails to another. And sometimes that takes a little bit of time. [00:55:48:06 - 00:56:08:17] Todd Carmichael And finally, stick to it. Grind. You know, Rome wasn't built in the day. People don't know it, but it took me 30 years to get La Colombe to a billion dollars. Thirty, three decades. It takes time sometimes. And with this new start, it's a fledgling little baby. It might take another 20, but let yourself have the time [00:56:10:03 - 00:56:12:05] Todd Carmichael and never give up. That's it. [00:56:12:05 - 00:56:52:17] Kimberly McGlonn I'm going to play that back. That's going to stay with me. Thank you for joining me today, Todd. It's been a pleasure. I appreciate you. Wow. Todd Carmichael, CEO of La Colombe, had so much to offer us by way of how we think about the design of our life. I really appreciated his formula, right? Thinking about expertise and aptitude and achievement and how you factor in your use of time so that the design of your life, this canvas metaphor that he used actually comes together for you is one that I hope you'll remember. I certainly will. And the other thing that will stick with me, I think, in this conversation is this notion of the larger climb, right? He uses this metaphor of the mountain as one that [00:56:53:23 - 00:57:09:12] Kimberly McGlonn is his anchor for thinking about what he achieves and where he is in helping other people. I think that that's a powerful tool for how all of us can determine what we're achieving, what we're reaching for, and how we're helping others as they approach their own climb. [00:57:10:19 - 00:57:22:05] Kimberly McGlonn Thank you for joining us for another episode of Yarrow of Tomorrow. Please be sure to like, subscribe, and follow. And if there's someone in your life who's facing a fire, share this conversation with them. I think it'll be of some use.