Latest / The Daily Writer / Using Your Pain as a Pathway to Writing | Jim Barnard

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Using Your Pain as a Pathway to Writing | Jim Barnard · The Daily Writer

• 0:00
  unknown: Can you do it with Foxy Fox on the Fine Fox?
• 0:02
  unknown: Can you do it to Fox by Fox?
• 0:04
  unknown: Can we do it with the Fox to Five Chine?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Rider Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining me for this episode of our Summer Expert series.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the realities that binds us all together as human beings is that we all experience pain and suffering.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter what culture you're from or how old you are or what your life experience is, we all deal with suffering on a daily basis.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: My guest today is here to help us understand that our pain and suffering doesn't have to be wasted.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: It can actually be a useful tool for writing.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, if we're willing to face our pain in life and use it as a pathway for sharing our story, it can be a really powerful way to serve other people and make a big difference in their lives.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jim Bernard is a pastor, author, speaker, and the founder of Tiller Coaching.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: He offers coaching to those who are suffering the reality of the expectation gap, where disappointment, dissatisfaction, and distress can cause real damage.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Jim is also the author of The Suffering Guy, a book that details his wife's rare chronic illness that set in three months after they were married and has led them on a really challenging journey ever since.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Told from Jim's point of view, the book details the real struggle to find hope amid the suffering.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very raw and real and honest conversation, somewhat different than what you typically hear on this podcast.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: But still, I hope that you find comfort and guidance as Jim shares his story and we explore how our pain can be a pathway to writing that changes people's lives.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: You can find out more about Jim, his book, and his work by going to tillercoaching.org and thesufferingguy.com.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And before we get into the conversation, I do want to give a major shout out to my good friend and also my insurance agent, Vic Miller, for making the connection with Jim.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Vic.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: As always, you add so much value to every to people everywhere that you go.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, here's my conversation with Jim Bernard.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jim, it's great to have you on the podcast.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: So glad that our mutual friend Vic Miller, give him a shout-out here, uh introduced us.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's uh great to have you here chatting about your book and your writing and all kinds of other cool stuff.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, Ken.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a privilege to be here.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: So on the show, we have a variety of people, of course, as you know, because you've heard the show before, we have a variety of authors from all kinds of different backgrounds and doing different things and all kinds of interesting um results happening from their books and their writing.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to get into your story a little bit.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, we'll talk about your writing as well.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But how did you get into writing in the first place?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: People come from all kinds of different places with their writing, but I'd be curious if you can share with us your journey as a writer.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I started writing out of desperation, to be honest.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's actually familiar.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh this is a great place to like maybe just share a quick version of my story.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um I got married in St.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Louis to my sweetwife Alicia, uh 17 and a half years ago.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, really excited about marriage and and excited about what that was gonna be like, and um and then three months into our married life, she got really sick, like everything fell apart.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: We basically honeymooned at the Mayo Clinic up in Minnesota, like it was incredibly devastating.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, for the last 17 and a half years, uh, she's gone downhill, just the sickness has overcome her.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a um connective tissue disease called Ellers Danlow syndrome.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a if you've ever seen a contortionist, someone who can bend their joints in any direction, you know, they've got that same disease, but it's a hyperflexibility located in their joints.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: For Alicia, it's a hyperflexibility in her midsection and her abdomen.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So everything in her core is loosey-goosey, like there's no muscle tone pushing food through her digestive system.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all of her core organs have prolapsed or fallen out of place, and she's got cow tissue and meshing and tacks and uh the this stuff trying to keep things where they're supposed to be.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's been awful.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I I you know, I could spend hours telling you how terrible um, you know, this unexpected um expectation gap has been.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, over the years, like as she's gone downhill, we finally like found this uh therapy that was gonna help her, uh, a thing called IVIG.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh uh antibody therapy where she gets just flooded with antibodies from other people's blood work, and it doesn't make her better, it doesn't bring her back up um per se, but it gives us plateau.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not losing my wife like I was.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one day out of the blue, the insurance company said, Hey, it seems like Alicia's doing better.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're we don't think we're gonna pay for this therapy anymore, you know, because she's you know doing okay.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it wigged me out, man.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm like, what in the world am I supposed to do here?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like the reason she's doing like okay-ish is because of this therapy.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I was panicked.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, how like how much is it gonna cost for me to pay for this?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer was$300,000 a year.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm a pastor, I make nowhere close to$300,000 a year.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so I was like, okay, I I need to I need a fundraise, I need to do something.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't just sit on my hands here.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I bought a website domain.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it's defunct now, but it's I write to save mywife.com.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I just started sharing like little chapters of our story, and I was like trying to get it to go viral.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, please everyone share this.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's get this to Oprah because Oprah can save me, you know, like she can save my wife.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oprah, save me.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it it didn't quite make it to Oprah, but it got a little bit of traction, and um, I started getting like all these notes from people around the world, like, oh my gosh, I I've I I've been reading your story on the on your website, and it's really encouraging to me, like missionaries overseas, just different people, and they're like now suddenly to share like their story with me.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, this is like I'm I'm dealing with MS or I'm I'm uh I've got this other thing or whatever, and they're sharing their story of suffering.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, no, this is not what I wanted.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I did not want to help people, I just wanted right, I wanted I wanted to help myself, you know.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to raise the money, and um yeah, I I at some point I just I stopped doing it because it was overwhelming to me.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, so I've I've I've worked in and out of churches for you know the better part of 10 years and um you know have had a really cool ministry at the churches I've worked at.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at some point it became obvious that my story was my greatest asset.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and even though it was like really scary for me to like try to help people on the other side of the world, I was like, I I probably need to lean into this on some level.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just a lot of people in my current congregation or people around town had heard my story and just wanted to meet.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted someone who could uh relate with their pain.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so I stepped away from working in a church and I started a coaching ministry where I coach people through their expectation gaps, the difference between their reality and what they hoped for, what they expected in life.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's a privilege.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I give my time away to help people in these uh moments of suffering, and it's like the greatest thing I've ever done.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: But when I started this coaching ministry called Taylor Coaching, I was like, it's time to get back to the book.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's gonna be part of like uh platforming this ministry that I'm starting.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got to work on what is now called the suffering guy, and it's uh a quirky um, you know, memoir uh style book of our our pain and our suffering and the ways that God has showed up in absurd ways and um it it interjects a lot of humor.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a fun, it's a fun read.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that that that's uh that's my answer to your question about how I got started in this.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: So how did you and my goodness, there's a lot to unpack here.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: How did you transition from so you're writing uh you know online?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um at what point did you decide to create a book out of this?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like what was the tipping point in that in that decision where you're like, okay, I think I want to actually make a real life book out of this?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it wasn't until I I started Tiller that I was like, okay, my this my story is is central to me.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is the greatest asset, the greatest opportunity that God had given me.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, you know, every time I meet with someone uh to coach them through their expectation gap, I start with my story and then I ask someone else to the other person to share their story, and we then dig into the gaps from there.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, okay, well, it only seems to make sense to to get back to the book that I would craft out that story in a in a in a bigger version.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not telling like a six and a half hour story to people I'm coaching, it's like a 20-minute version.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot that had happened in a lot of ways that God had shown up.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I just knew that that story was important for people, that that story could bring hope to just tons of people.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really correlated with with starting my ministry that I was like, yep, now I need to do it, you know.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And how did you how did you actually put the book together?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Was it mostly stuff that you had already written in other places, or was the book an entirely new collection of of material?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it was a lot of what I started on that website, and like I I had saved it even though I had shut it down at some point.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think in the back of my head, I I knew that I was gonna do something with it at some point.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it that was a great launching point.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like um it was a super blog, is what I was writing, you know, back in the day, and uh have that material was was really great.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I also had to fish back through old social media posts and you know, old blogs that I had way back in the day just to try to get the story straight in my head and to understand the the the actual timeline.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a beautiful process of like piecing it all together because um, you know, like I I certainly know my story, I've I've lived it, but to be able to timeline it and to pull from these different spaces where I had memorialized things, um, actually like was incredibly therapeutic for me and allowed me to see the thread that God was pulling through this entire you know venture of suffering.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it was it was a really cool I I I didn't know what I was doing, Kent.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I would stay at my office late at night and just like write and just I I was I I didn't know what I was doing.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I needed this podcast four years ago when I was getting going, but I mean uh this podcast wasn't quite what it was, you know.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: But right, it was a different show back then.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I just I sat down and just started writing, and um, thankfully I had a few editors that wanted to be a part of the project, um, you know, kind people that wanted to donate time towards helping me craft the story, and they did a lot to to like get it to a place where it's like um really coherent and really like packaged well.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm pretty fortunate in all of it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as you know, Jim, I came from a um church of ministry and Christian college teaching background, and so you know, things like nonprofit work, church ministry, that those kinds of things, it's kind of like once a pastor, always a pastor.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think anybody who who has at some time in their life felt called to some kind of of ministry situation, I don't think you ever you know, you can you can shift jobs and careers, but there's there's a part of you that I think most pastors all approach whatever they do in a pastoral kind of way.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's certainly I try to I try to approach everything that I do with that sort of spirit, whether it's ghostwriting or coaching or writing or whatever.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm curious your thoughts on how do you think about the business side of of your book, you know, income it generates or you know, coaching or or like the monetization side of what you do versus the pastoral and minus and ministry side.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of people listening to this conversation are are maybe in that situation where they work at a church or maybe they work at a nonprofit, and there's there's a ministry or a service component to what they do, but there's also the business component.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those things can be in conflict and it's hard to sort all that out.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Curious your thoughts on any of those kinds of things.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my model with tiller coaching is pretty unique.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't charge anyone for the coaching that I offer, which when I was getting going, people are like, oh my gosh, that's a major mistake.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: You are devaluing your product and uh just terrible.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I really feel like God was asking me to do that, and so I raise my funds like I'm a missionary, you know, my my mission field is suffering people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, so you know, I've got donors that are a part of this and they are helping give away what is basically discipleship to others with the starting point of the expectation cap.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the thought of like writing this book in a in a in a businessy kind of way, like there's kind of two aspects of how it was gonna help grow tiller.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: One, it was gonna help me find new clients, people that are stuck in pain, you know, because a book called The Suffering Guy, like if you're not experiencing suffering, you're probably not inclined to want to pick up that book, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is very much like okay, I'm I I have this felt need, so I'm gonna I'm gonna check this out and see what it has for me.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've I've picked up a ton of clients just through the billboard of the book, and and it's great, it's people that I can relate with my story and are living something similar, and uh it's a privilege to be able to walk with them in in something similar.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then also it was a billboard for you know, hey, if if uh if you want to support Tiller, if you want to be a part of giving this away to people and and helping people in this mission field, like please.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I've picked up a bunch of donors through it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't say that personally I'm a super profitable writer.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've made whatever money I've made.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: This it's not a New York Times bestseller or anything, but I mean it's been nice to make money off of books, but sure, my my ministry has grown in clients and donors because of the billboard of the suffering guy.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like I knew it was going to happen, but it it actually way exceeded my expectations.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a moment to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: As a writer, you not only want to write great books, but you also want them to look professionally formatted and give your reader a great experience.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why for years my go-to choice for book formatting software has been Vellum.
• 16:13
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• 16:20
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• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Best of all, you can download Vellum and play with your book's formatting to your heart's content, and you only have to purchase when you're ready to publish.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do, Vellum can create eBooks and print books for every platform.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: To download Vellum for free, visit trivellum.com slash Kent.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's trivellum.com slash Kent.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you mentioned that aspect of it because I think part of having a successful book is defining what does success mean to you from this.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes success with a book doesn't necessarily mean I sold a bunch of copies of this book and made X number of dollars in profit from book sales.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, many many of the people that I work with as a ghostwriter, their goal is not necessarily to have a bunch of book sales, it is to to maybe get clients with coaching.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or um, you know, I worked with with a gentleman last year.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: He does marketing for attorneys, and he already he he already secured um some clients from the little book that we did for him.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so his book was really, really profitable, not because of book sales, but because of what that book did for him.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's an interesting thing because sometimes the the profit in a book doesn't come from the sales itself, but what the book does for you or for your business, or or sometimes what it what a book just does for for helping to tell your story.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, exactly.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think it's built a street cred for me, you know.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like totally um, you know, people will you know share with their friends about tiller coaching.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, man, you if you've never heard about Jim, like he's got this crazy story, he's a pastor, he's a coach, he's an author, he's a speaker, and it's like, I mean, I yeah, I guess technically I am all of those things, but people are are sharing that they they've got some enthusiasm for who I am and what I have to offer because of this cachet that you know comes with a book.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you seen that reaction quite a bit where people basically just say outright, oh, you have a book, you know, you have a story to tell, and therefore you seem more credible on my site just because this book exists out in the world.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I like I used to be on a podcasting dating service, is what I like to call it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Guests looking for hosts and hosts looking for guests.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And totally I I got on just dozens of them and it wasn't hard to get on, but at some point I was like, all right, I need a break.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I kind of deactivated my account for a while, but I still just keep stumbling into podcasts, you know, like this one right now.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I love it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to do stuff like this because like if if I can share something that helps someone, like that's totally worth it.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like yeah, now that I've I've done it enough, it's just kind of happening without me putting a lot of effort into it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's great because I got a thousand other things that I'm I'm prioritizing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I yeah, it's it it's really it's really cool to be able to say, yeah, I'm an I'm an author, and um, you know, for people to have excitement over that, it's pretty special.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And remind me how long your book is.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: It it's was what, like 120, 150 pages?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think it's a like 250.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 250.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I thought okay.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's a longer book, okay.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it's driven, so it's a quick read.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, it's all narrative, and um, you know, I go into these pastry moments where I I I make some application based on scripture and say, okay, like yeah, now I get it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I never really got this part of scripture until I had to live this garbage, you know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it's a really fun book.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just finished my second book, which is a totally different book, a space I don't feel prepared to be in.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh a book called Made Alive.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is a discipleship study, like an eight-week study to do with a group of people.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, our mutual friend Vic and I are going through that right now, and it's been really fun to uh, you know, go through these different weeks and um, you know, learn about, you know, how how it looks to be made alive in Christ.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's a totally different thing to write a non-narrative uh book, but it it's been really exciting.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, some of the people that I've done groups with on this book, they've been really excited and they've been sharing it with people.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know, it's it's a beautiful thing, man.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I everyone should write a book.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think everyone's got a story to tell.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I totally agree with that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a book will will change your life and your business or your ministry or really whatever it is that you want to highlight in your book.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, are there any other results that that you have seen come from having a book out in the world?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it talks about personal fulfillment, uh, obviously telling your story and also the benefits to your ministry.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, anything else that you feel like, man, having a book out in the world has really helped me with this or this or this or other kinds of interesting results.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's built relationships for me.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, it's really neat to, you know, have like an Instagram account that you're you're sharing stuff on, and then someone hits you up and it's like, Hey, I you don't know me, but I I read your book and um you I run a nonprofit in Pittsburgh.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like I'd love to talk to you more about, you know, Tiller and your story.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I've met a bunch of other authors.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've uh built relationships with people who want to be authors.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember in one of your in one of your podcasts, you talk about turning around and helping others.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've been able to help, you know, half a dozen other people uh, you know, finish a book and and get it out into the world.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I ghost wrote a book for a perfect stranger that I didn't know.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but his story was really compelling and it it just seemed to to fit with everything else I was doing.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um just the relationships.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I just had no idea that I was gonna build friendship um out of this.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was just gonna be something I did and then something that people would read and be like, yeah, that was fine, but um, it's done a lot for me interpersonally, you know.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: That is so cool.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: That is so cool.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So for people who are listening to this and wondering how to get started writing their book, any advice that you'd share with them?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you've you've got a book out there, you're working on second one.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so you're you're experienced at this point, you know, and and I think would have some good thoughts to share with people.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, what would you say to those people who just don't know where to get started?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I start where you're at.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I was at a really desperate place when I started.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I had probably started already, um, you know, writing little blogs and and whatever, just getting reps of, you know, writing words into sentences and sentences into paragraphs, just start somewhere and you know, create your voice.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: One of the greatest compliments that I get about the suffering guy is I could hear you reading this book to me, like your your writing voice is your voice, like there's no difference.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh, that's so good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, people telling me like I you had me crying and then you had me laughing, like all within the same page, and it's just very much who you are.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, if I didn't if I didn't do like all the little writing that I had done over the years, and if I hadn't done the I write to save my wife.com uh writing, I I just don't think I would have like been able to naturally get there.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would have had to work through it so much harder because it's like you're you're trying to get up to the right weight, you know, faster than you know, like it takes a it's a slow grind to to get your reps in and get to a place where you can actually do the heavy lifting fairly easily, you know.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I like I please write in any form or fashion.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care if it's a blog, a substack, uh just um uh your writing in your diary or journal, like just write, like figure out your voice.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's the best advice I have.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So speaking of of your wife, since you know your story, uh since her story is a big part of the book, obviously.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: What did she think of the book?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: What was her response to it?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, Kent, that's a good question.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, we're wading into some waters here.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: She loves and hates the book.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like actually think that that's true because she loves it because she she loves that you know the pain that um that she's been living with, and she's been living with a lot of pain.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Her pain has a purpose, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like getting to share her story, um, our story, it like gives a lot of purpose to our pain.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: We because we we know it's brought hope to people.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: The reason she hated it is that it is uh it just stirred back up the old memories of hard things that happened.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was very personal.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like my wife has essentially died on me twice.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've held her lifeless body in my arms twice.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is awful.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: These are horrific stories that I share in the book, and um she's reading it, you know, obviously from my perspective, and it's like it's too much sometimes, right?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I think it was really hard for her as I was writing.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted me to, she encouraged me to write it, but um it was a touch too real, and I think maybe that means I did a good job.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I would say so.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: If it has an impact on the reader and upon the the main character of the story, you know, your wife, then uh I'd say that's that's a pretty good job.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I think yeah, but yeah, she she loves it.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's uh she's been a big uh motivation for me in in getting the second book done because she's like, hey, you you clearly have a gift, you you need to keep working on stuff.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've got like kind of three books in mind down the road.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll get started on on those, you know, whenever I can, but um got to finish this one completely first.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, she sacrificed a lot of time, you know, to let me stay at the office late and and write.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes I get frustrated about the writing process.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And guess who I take that out on?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I take it out on my rights, you know, because she's safe.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm not like uh like mean towards her or anything, but it like, yeah, we'd naturally do that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she sacrificed a lot for me to be able to produce these books, and she'll continue to because she believes in it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jim, this has been an absolute blast having you on the show today.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you sharing your story and gosh, I'm just I'm so inspired by this, and also by the fact that you have you've not just put a button put a book out there into the world that is kind of like a generic I have all the solutions kind of a book, but something where you have truly told your story and really bared your soul to people.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think those are the kind of books that really impact people the most.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I just want to take a second to acknowledge and applaud your courage in doing this because this is no small feat.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: You've done something really, really inspirational and something really important.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's so amazing.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, man.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: That really means a lot to me.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I um I hate it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not the story I would have written in my life by any means.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would have written something way cooler, but this is the story that God has written in my life, and yeah, it's a privilege to be able to share it.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um this platform of being able to write books and uh have an ebook.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've done an audible version.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's gotten into the hands of the people that need it the most.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, who knows what what ministry that book will take on as it continues to go forward.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it just really is a privilege.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate those words.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, where can people find out more about you and also grab your book?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thesufferingguy.com is my my book website.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, kind of my author page.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, everything's available on Amazon.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my coaching ministry is called tiller coaching.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So tiller coaching.org.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm on the socials as well.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, there's there's tons of ways to get a hold of me.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, love it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jim, thanks again for making time to be a guest.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I also also excuse me, sorry, I'll edit that out.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no worries.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I should have got some water before I started.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I also, of course, want to give a big shout out to our good mutual friend Vic Miller, who happens to be my insurance agent, but is also a really, really cool guy.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So go, Vic.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jim, thanks again for being being on the show today.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, God bless.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're doing really great work in the world, and I appreciate your time so much.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks, Ken.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate what you're doing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh keep things profitable, man.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do my best.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks again for joining me for another episode of the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: As always, I appreciate you taking time to listen.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking forward to the next episode where I'm going to share a conversation with New York Times bestselling writer Margot Starbuck on tips to improve your nonfiction book proposals.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you've never put together a book proposal and don't have any intention of doing so, I would encourage you definitely to do that.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And on that episode, you'll learn why it's so important and also how to make them really, really good.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: So look forward to seeing you for that conversation.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Before we go, I want to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you may have written a great book, but it's not ready for publication until it's been in the hands of a great editor.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why my friend Karen Hunsinger, also known as The Word Wizard, is the perfect partner to help you craft the highest quality book possible.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a great editor doesn't just correct grammar and spelling, they also correct wordiness, shifts in tone and voice, overuse of particular words, and they also enhance transitions, clarity, and accuracy.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked with Karen many times, and she is your secret weapon for crafting an amazing book.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Visit Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's Karen Hunsinger.com for a free sample edit.