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Bruce Plaxen on His 40-Year Journey to Becoming AAJ President · Raising the Bar with RebuttalPR

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Raising the Bar with Rebuttal PR.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The podcast will be elevate the stories of the plane of spar and dive into the key trends, shaping the civil justice system today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Ray D. Lorenzi, and in each episode, we'll bring you insightful interviews with leading attorneys, expert perspectives on current legal events, and in-depth discussions on the issues that matter most.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's jump in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: always put the client first, and you'll be okay.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's best for the client, not for the best for me or the law firm.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Be honest, a hundred percent honest, and if we make a mistake, just tell the client I'm sorry, and this goes for all of us in our lives.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The power of an apology or the power of being honest, that diffuses everything and your clients are really happy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome to a new episode of Reason The Bar with Reputal PR.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, I am joined by Bruce Plaxon.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're guarded, respected one of the best trial lawyers in Maryland.
0:58
[SPEAKER_00]: One could say in the country, but you know, we'll just keep what can keep going.
1:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But more importantly, he is the incoming president of the American Association for Justice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: As we tape this today in about ten days, he's going to be sworn in as the next president.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So congratulations, Bruce, on that, and welcome to the podcast.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Ray.
1:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm going to take you around the country if you're going to introduce me as one of the best lawyers in the country.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's just for court.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We can keep the, we'll cut out that clip for you.
1:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You can play it, you know, it's like a walk on song.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So to start first, how does it feel, especially for those unfamiliar, it takes years to climb the ranks to become president.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, you know, you're like, you know, from president electing them president, you know, it's like what's six year kind of ladder?
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: How does it feel?
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, right, I feel like I've gone from being the wonder kid, the youngest one in the room to being the oldest one in the room with the institutional history.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: For, you know, when I first got on AHA's board almost twenty five years ago, when I served as the state president, I felt like I was, you know, doing all these great things at a young age, and now I feel like I'm, the old man in the room sometimes.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and knowing you and also knowing your background, it's almost like you have two professional lives.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You have Bruce Paxon, the trial lawyer, but also Bruce Paxon that legislative advocate.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to talk about that because you've done a ton of work and anapolis related to legislation of Maryland, and then that preceded all the work you've done at the federal level for AJ.
2:40
[SPEAKER_00]: To start though, why did you become a trial lawyer in the first place?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I fell into it a little bit.
2:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to work for a general practice firm in Cosport, Maryland that had five partners that all did different aspects.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And they hired me to do personal injury cases.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all I did.
3:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So from day one,
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I had an expertise.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying all the auto cases, the Flint Falls, the products cases, every P.I.
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[SPEAKER_01]: case was mine because the partner who had done that had started focusing on just the medical malpractice.
3:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I became a specialist right out of law school.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I became a personal injury lawyer.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it fit my personality because
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[SPEAKER_01]: Unlike some other areas, there's a winner, there's a winner and a loser and it's fun to win.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really a lot of fun to go somewhere and you go home and say, I want today, I want something and it's also really meaningful.
3:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I was looking back on my
3:43
[SPEAKER_01]: career a little bit with me becoming president of the national.
3:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And you make a difference, too.
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You make a difference in someone's life.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You could actually look at something and pinpoint it and go, I help that person.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And legislatively is the same thing.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I make a difference in other people's lives, maybe not my clients.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall, I think that the work of M.A.J.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and my work in Annapolis has helped countless Marylanders get a fair shake in our civil justice system.
4:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you started out as a lawyer at General Practice firm, at what point did you like?
4:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
4:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go out on my own and then you obviously created Placts and Adler, an Out Placts and Adler.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Monthly, you know, what was that process for you?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I was at a law school only two years when I opened my law firm.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was twenty six years old.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The senior partner who was doing the medical malpractice part, kept saying, man, we're killing it on this personal injury part.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We should go out and just form a special personal injury firm.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kept kind of teasing me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually I was bringing in so much business and I was bringing in more money than any of the partners in the firm.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That was like, I can do this.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: At twenty-six years old, it took a lot of moxie.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: When I'm not from Maryland, I don't have family contacts, I don't have any money.
5:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I opened, you know, this office on Route one in high, it's from Maryland that was me answering the phone looking stamps and working with a used typewriter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Typewriter.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really mean typewriter because it was in nineteen eighty-five.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Were you in some ways, like, ignorant of the risk in a good way, or you knew what you were getting in?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, this is going to be a slog, but it's worth it.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is actually how the thought process goes.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The firm I was working for was underpaying me.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and I was only two years out so that worked my benefit because if I really, you know, crap the bed and this didn't work, I could get a job for the same amount of money.
5:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like I was walking away from a, you know, big law with a huge paycheck.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I figured worst comes worse if I do this for six months and I'm not making any money.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can go back and get a job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can crawl back to the same place or somewhere.
6:05
[SPEAKER_01]: similar and and make it so it wasn't it wasn't that big a risk it felt like a big risk because I had just bought a my first home and I am my first kid had been born so felt like a big risk but in retrospect I don't I don't know that it was I what point did it click for you when you started from that you know what this can work
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want this to sound the modest, but pretty much right away, because I was bringing in business, and I was hustling, and I was giving out my card to every server and waitress that I knew, and I was coaching little league when I didn't even have kids in the league, and I was just, and I was bringing in business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The business came.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was worried that the scariest part is, well, the cases come, not could I handle them.
6:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And within six months, I hired my first paralegal a few months later, it grew again, and the farm grew.
7:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't grow huge, because that's not the kind of farm I wanted to build.
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to build a small farm.
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But within a few months, I knew I was going to be okay.
7:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think when firms come in different shapes and sizes, and I think it though as when they become larger, it's hard to keep touch with your clients.
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're growing your firm though, what's your philosophy in individuals representing people in that relationship and guiding them through essentially what may be the worst thing that's ever happened to them?
7:45
[SPEAKER_01]: always put the client first.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I've told my partners, my associates, anyone that's worked here, always put the client first.
7:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll be okay.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Do what's best for the client, not so best for me or the law firm, be honest, a hundred percent honest.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we make a mistake, just tell the client I'm sorry.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And this goes for all of us in our lives.
8:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The power of an apology or the power of being honest and saying, hey, you know, I should have called you back yesterday or yes, that letter was supposed to go out yesterday, but it's going out today.
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That diffuses everything and your clients are really happy and making ourselves accessible back in the eighties.
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Lawyers were different breed.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Lawyers, we were barely coming out of a time when the Supreme Court finally let us advertise.
8:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And lawyers, like me, I was making home appointments.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I was making it as easy as possible for my clients.
8:45
[SPEAKER_01]: If they were in an accident, I would go to their home.
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I visited them in the hospital.
8:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd see them at night.
8:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd see them on weekends.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And there weren't a lot of lawyers doing that.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more common now.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was able to do this and make the clients feel good.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And was something I always say when clients say, hey, I don't want to bother you or I'm sorry I'm being a pest.
9:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I always say, I work for you.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I work for you.
9:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not a bother.
9:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want you to be a squeaky wheel because I want to work on your case.
9:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know what's happening.
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the philosophy we live by here.
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a misconception amongst lawyers that really, you know, their practice is what happens at the negotiating table or in the courtroom.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, you have an appreciation of the impact of what the legislature does on the practice of law.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: When did that first strike you though, and how did you really become involved?
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: At least, let's talk about Maryland in lobbying and legislation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So shortly, when I opened my firm in nineteen eighty five, the trial lawyers had no lobbyists and very little presidents in Maryland.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And in nineteen eighty six, we got slammed with a cap on damages when we got
10:07
[SPEAKER_01]: killed in the legislature.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Torque form came in and it was awful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And M.A.J.
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[SPEAKER_01]: got organized and that was around the time I got on their board of governors and saw that we needed to have a strong presence in Maryland, in anapolis.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And within a few years I was legislative chair, I became president, I was
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[SPEAKER_01]: packed chair for twenty-five years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like turning around a big boat.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It happened slowly, but eventually you're going in the right direction.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And Maryland has not had a lot of torque reform in the last forty years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're still trying to undo this cap on damages.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We still have some bad laws.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can do better in Maryland.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's still a flawed civil justice system.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're doing better.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I feel like
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm, I'm on the wall protecting you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel like the perception of the trial bar has changed over that time?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We are so well, we're, even if we don't get what we want Maryland.
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[SPEAKER_01]: we have built a reputation of telling the truth being honest and never coming in and you know pulling the wall over our legislators eyes like you can look back and if we tell you this is we come with facts unlike the insurance industry or the chamber and we're going to give you the straight scoop and if you want to if you want to do it's right then you do it's right and and
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've had relationships with with governors and legislators and they don't always agree with us, but I think I think we are well respected.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's different from the days where the trial bar was looked down as almost like, you know, use car salesmen or, or, you know, you know,
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[SPEAKER_01]: someone an ambulance chaser.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's gone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have a lot of a whole new generation of legislators and anapolis that want to do the right thing.
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not always politically expedient.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I go down a test find a build, there's a dozen entities on the other side where the only ones there for consumers.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me how you then got involved with the American Association for Justice AJ, which at the time would have been the Association of Travelers of America.
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So I joined shortly after in nineteen eighty five when I opened my law firm.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for about fifteen years I was what you might call mailbox member.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I got trauma magazine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I read the articles and I really didn't know what they did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in two thousand I became.
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[SPEAKER_01]: President elective the state trial or association and I thought I really ought to go to my first convention and find out what the national does if I'm going to be president of the state.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I've said this at many A. A. J. events and I speak all around the country.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I tell potential members that it would change the arc of my professional career and my personal life.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: being around such great lawyers that honestly it's not hyperbole that energized me, that inspire me and I see the good things that they are doing across the country and around the world.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I first got involved with AJ.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't do anything slowly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I became president of the Council of Presidents, which is president of all the state TLA presidents pretty much right away.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I came home and I told my kids and I said, you know, I'm now president of the council presidents and I explained to them what that was.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So they said, oh, so you are president of all the presidents.
14:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Was there were there any lawyers that you felt like took you under your wing at AJ that stand out to you and that you like look back on it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Lenny Orman from Maryland was a great friend of mine and Lenny encouraged me to get involved with AJ for years even before I went to my first convention.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Lenny was really well respected around the country.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Lenny was this amazing guy who had landmark cases in Maryland even though he was a sole practitioner.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He shared an office at one time
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: with the former mayor of Baltimore, Tommy, Della Sanjo, Jr., who was Nancy, his brother.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And great things came out of that office, Lenny was just a really inspiring guy.
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend Rob Jenner showed me the ropes at A.J., he'd been going for years.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the most amazing things though, I saw from my first convention, and then I went to the Auto Tort seminar at Jazz Fest seminar in New Orleans.
15:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're a young lawyer or not so young, well, you heard Russ Herman in this prime.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty amazing stuff, you know, to see Russ.
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can't all be Russ Herman or Jerry Spence, because we can't come in with cowboy boots or tell Bibles.
15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it told you to find your own voice and, you know, it gave you a courtroom presence.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, say, restaurant was really inspiring.
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: What made you then, you know, let's say fast forward, you know, if that was two thousand, you know, we're getting into, you know, you know, twenty-fifteenish, like, you know, I want to be in leadership here.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: What was pulling you to do that?
15:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's also a little fortuitous when I became president of the Council of Presidents.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It got you a seat on the Executive Committee.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: OK.
16:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't deserve to be on the executive committee, but it's something that AJ does that the caucuses get a wrap and the state TLA is getting a wrap and the council president gets a seat on the executive committees.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So here I am at my first or second convention and I'm on the executive committee.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically like being in the back room with leaders and I'm sitting next to people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: like, you know, Ken Subbs and Todd Smith and Fred Barron, and, you know, and they're coming up and formulating, you know, trial lawyers care and saving the day after the nine or eleven crisis, and it's pretty exhilarating.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you've been in the background,
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of, it's like, you know, Earl Weaver going back to Coach First Base.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Earl, Earl doesn't come back and Coach First Base, you know?
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, you've been in the back room, you're in leadership.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I got on the board of governors.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And a year later, I was like, geez, I kind of missed being in the back room and knowing what's going on.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ran at large.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: to get on the executive committee and it was also kind of a lot of moxie little ballsy to think that I could do that but then I ran year after year after year for an at-large seat on the executive committee and that's what I did and I served that if you go back I think I've served on every president since you know Leo Boyle and Mary Alexander I served on the executive committee so I've seen a lot I'm sort of like that
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: institutional history of AJ right now.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you?
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know as much as a president can come in with an agenda and you know, I think a lot of presidents have had agendas and then, you know, events take over, you know, and you talk, you just mentioned like trial lawyers care and not a lot.
18:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But what is your sort of vision or philosophy that, you know, and I'm asking to preview your speech, I guess so.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just had this discussion this morning with some senior staff of AHA.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, you know, my goal was to, you know, be at the Christmas or Hanukkah party with Doug M. Hoff and Kamala.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So that didn't work out.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The White House, you know.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think right now I have found my moment, my key project because
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Six months ago, none of us knew we were going to be fighting to preserve the rule of law that law schools would be under attack, that law firms would be disciplined for who they represented.
18:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just last week, we had a fight to prevent attacks on loans to law firms, or that chemical companies would think they were entitled to complete immunity for pesticides.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what's going to come up next week, right?
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We may have to circle back when I have my future moment.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I really just, you know, what someone asked me, what do you want to do when you're president?
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And the easy answer I told them was, I just want to preserve the civil justice system and save democracy.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would be okay.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Save democracy.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, only that.
19:35
[SPEAKER_00]: What role do you think AHA plays though in that, especially in a moment like now?
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been really, you know, some people are upset with the capitulation of some law firms, but I have seen AHA and the ABA and other groups really step up.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this country wants to save the rule a lot.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think people want to see
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: lawyers, law firms, law schools being pressured on what they're allowed to do.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that just goes contrary to our system.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think AHA will continue to lead in the fight to preserve civil justice as much as we can.
20:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we talk about rule-off.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, you have a lot of Trump-aligned legislators who are also more of a popular strain and have been allies to not necessarily AJ, but to AJ's issues.
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you square that circle in your head?
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So this may come as a surprise to your viewers or listeners, but one of the best speeches I've seen on the rule of law and was given by Josh Hawley.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Josh Hawley, I saw a few months ago in person, give a speech that no
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: regulation will enforce good behavior like a lawsuit that the courts have to remain open and that corporate wrongdoers must have be held accountable.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only way to make the country safer.
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, align that with with, you know, the raised fist on January six and you do have an enigma.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's what you're talking about people like that.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: that are coming around to the rule of law and thank God they are because if you believe in the Constitution, like some of these Republicans claim to believe in the Constitution strictly, the seventh amendment is an important amendment.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to protect the right to trial by jury, so we'll see.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes you hopeful about the future of the civil justice system and its trajectory, you know, whether that is, you know, with the course of your presidency or beyond?
22:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think that I attribute this to my wife.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a mantra in our house that the goodness triumphs over evil, that at some point, you know, the
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to get Martin Luther King's quote, but the Ark of Justice has to bend back towards what's right.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And people don't want to do.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have to have more faith in the people in this country and legislators.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, right now, they're more afraid of Trump than they are of Democrats.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of that is
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that we redistrict the gerrymandering, most of them are in safe districts, so they're more worried about a primary opponent than a general election opponent.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, things changed.
22:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Things changed in this country.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't that long ago that, you know, California was a red state until the eighties, you know, or nineties.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Clinton was the first one to win California in a long time.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, some some states on the Eastern, you know, and we, when we seen Virginia go from purple to blue, we're seeing, you know, we would have thought we had two
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Democratic senators in the state of Georgia.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll see things swing back and forth, I hope.
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: As you say, things change.
23:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about that generationally for a moment.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You start your firm in nineteen eighty five.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You have, you know, young lawyers now that I think are looking at the plane of spar more than they once did versus going, you know, into big law, for example.
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what advice do you give young lawyers today who want to represent individuals and not go the, you know, maybe the typical, you know, defense trajectory.
23:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one of the most exciting changes.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: When I went to law school, the placement office wouldn't even tell you that there were options other than big law.
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the goal was to get to Wall Street Farm that would pay you.
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that young people are looking at a balance in their lifestyle, in their
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: home, but you know, that they don't want to work the hours that it takes.
24:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a certain amount of job satisfaction and rewards.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited that we're seeing plain of law student associations being formed in law schools all around the country.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, you know, hopefully that some of the best and brightest will come straight out of law school and work.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: first false forms like mine.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have three partners in their thirties.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got them on your show.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they would tell you that the right decision that that big law isn't for everybody.
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, no, that's one of the exciting things about looking at young lawyers is that unlike maybe my generation, they're doing the right thing.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you get sworn in as president, then you start hitting the road because I know being president involves a ton of travel.
25:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the pitch to lawyers who are not members of AJ?
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Why they need to get on board?
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
25:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's two pictures.
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The picture we've been making for years is we're going to save the civil justice system, which we are that you need us in Washington.
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Your state TLA's need you need us as a partner to help you in your state.
25:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Our state affairs department is brilliant.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: People like Dan Henkel and his team.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's doing all the right things.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: and that and that resonates but it also doesn't resonate with someone who's not a member because we're gonna do that anyway whether we have their dues or not okay so if you want to sit back and be lazy
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: or let someone else carry the fray.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You're still going to, your practice is still going to be saved by AEJ.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the pitch.
26:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a do good or pitch.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's do the right thing.
26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And AEJ is here for you.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike any other organization that provides CLI, AEJ has advocacy wing.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why you should be a member of AEJ.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The more effective pitch,
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[SPEAKER_01]: is that the return on investment of an AJ membership.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: is exponential because the networking and the relationships you will make will make you a better lawyer.
26:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Your cases will be worth more money.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You will have friends around the country that can co-counsel with and you will get referrals from lawyers all around the country, especially if you come to a couple of conventions and meet people from out of state that as much money as you will spend on dues and conventions it will come back to you in multiples.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the do good or pitch, which should, should encourage people to join, but there's also it's good for your business.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: With that Bruce, again, I want to congratulate you on finally becoming President of AJ Welldeserve.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The organization is going to be in great hands.
27:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for joining the podcast.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
27:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll see you in San Francisco, right?
27:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
27:27
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, right?
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to this episode of Raising the Bar with Rebuttal PR.
27:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to subscribe and follow to join us next time.
27:37
[SPEAKER_00]: See you then!