Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KOHBERGER CONTESTING PLEA DEAL? CAN CASE GO TO TRIAL? LIFETIME 'IDAHO 4 MOVIE' OUTRAGE

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KOHBERGER CONTESTING PLEA DEAL? CAN CASE GO TO TRIAL? LIFETIME 'IDAHO 4 MOVIE' OUTRAGE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Brian Coberger is contesting his plea deal, renegging on some
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: of the orders in exchange for life over the death penalty.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Can the case now go to trial amidst a lifetime
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Idaho four movie outrage, Good evening, a Nancy Grace, this
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: is Crime Stories.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger admitted pled guilty to four murders.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: They were worse than murders.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: They were slaughters of four innocent college students University of Idaho.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Straight out to Annie Eli's host of Seriously, Annie Coburger
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: is welching on a major tenet of his plea deal.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Under the law, I mean, Annie, that would be like
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: me sentencing you to twenty years on armed robbery and
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: and you have to elocute in court exactly what happened.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: We do the deal, and then you refuse to eloquet. Okay,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: deals off.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: What is he contesting paying for funeral expenses?
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: It seems to me like it's all about back to control.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: He doesn't seem to like any of the inconveniences that
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: are happening now that he's behind bars, whether it's what
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: he overhears the prisoner, saying about him the money that's
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: pouring in and having to possibly use that toward restitution.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: I think the reality is now setting in for him
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: and there's starting to be some back pedaling happening.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It's my understanding to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: that Coburger is bulking at paying for the victims earns
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and other expenses.
• 1:48
  Speaker 5: Right exactly, Nancy. The shocking part of it is that
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: in that plea deal, all of this was already negotiated.
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: All of this was part of it so that he
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: could avoid going to try and avoid the needle or
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: the gun. And yet now they're going back in and saying, well,
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: we need to send this to the mathematicians that accounting
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: at the state to determine whether or not he's able
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: to pay for it, because he's in prison for the
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: rest of his life, and that actually is something that
• 2:20
  Speaker 5: he's not allowed to do. This plea bargain said he
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: could not go back later and appeal it, he couldn't
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: contest any aspect of it, and in so doing, Nancy,
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: I wonder why have they not already said, boom over,
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: you're going to trial.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Well, the judge seems to agree with you, Dave Matt
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Listen to hip Hoar.
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
• 2:42
  Speaker 6: the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
• 2:46
  Speaker 6: the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: in turning their children?
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, for Pete's sake, does Judge Hippler have to
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: feed the prosecution with a silver spoon? Here's your way
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: out of this disastrous plea deal, out of all of
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: your lies and your secret deals. Coburger is contesting restitution
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: that was part of the deal. So deal is off.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, can the judge make it any more clear?
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Listen to Hippler.
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
• 3:34
  Speaker 6: for in the plea agreement itself.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And it's not an issue? Is it to any last
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: joining us from seriously, Annie, he's got at least a
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: five figure amount of money in his commissary account.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: It's unbelievable. First and foremost, the fact that people are
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: sending an admitted quadruple murderer tens of thousands of dollars
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: then for him to be contesting payment the restitution that
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: is outlined And I'm sorry, but three thousand dollars for
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: the earns is that the going rate these days for
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: a life. It's just if he's afforded these comforts of ramen,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: toilet trees, different treats with his commissary, why should he
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: get more comforts than the victims were ever afforded.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger has just been ordered by the judge to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: fork over thirty grand from his slush fund. Fine, I'm
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: glad you did that, Judge, to pay the victims' families.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: But the fact that Coburger has contested the deal stop
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: everything deals off joining me is a veteran trial lawyer
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: who will tell you the truth.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: We may not like it, but the truth. Josh colesrud
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: is with us.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: He is a veteran criminal defense attorney, former US attorney,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: founder of Colesrood Law Offices. Josh, I know that now
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: in this incarnation of yourself you are a defense attorney.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: But isn't it true that when a defendant, when a
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: defendant backs out of one of the tenants of the
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: plea deal, the deal is off.
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: Yes, So a plea agreement is a contract and it
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: has specific terms that need to be followed, and if
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: those terms are breached, then the plea agreement can be
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: undone and this case can be set for trial. One
• 5:32
  Speaker 7: of the ways that that could happen is a material
• 5:35
  Speaker 7: breach and not paying restitution.
• 5:40
  Speaker 8: So what does that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 7: Mean, Well, Brian Koberger agreed to have a fair dealing
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: with his finances, his money where it was going, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: to pay restitution. Now the state is saying that it
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: was their screw up that they didn't include the terms
• 5:59
  Speaker 7: in the plea agreement, But that's nonsense.
• 6:01
  Speaker 8: I'll tell you why.
• 6:02
  Speaker 7: Because the defendant, Brian Koberger, was levied a two hundred
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: and fifty thousand dollars fine, and that fine, the money
• 6:10
  Speaker 7: from that can can garnish his wages and that money
• 6:13
  Speaker 7: can be transferred into the victim compensation fund. So they
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: should be able to still go after the money. And
• 6:19
  Speaker 7: so what the prosecution is doing here, they're just being lazy.
• 6:23
  Speaker 7: They're not confident in what they're saying. The judge is
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: actually having to tell them and give them a roadmap
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: out of this, because honestly, they're incompetent. I have no
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: idea why they decided to actually plead this case out
• 6:34
  Speaker 7: when if there was ever a death penal deal, that's
• 6:37
  Speaker 7: a whole.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Nother can of worms coals rude you and me both.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Coburger argued last week he was refusing and unable to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: pay twenty seven thousand dollars restitution to the families, the
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: families of students he butchered dead. The judge threw out
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: his complaint, his complaint of poverty, no voting that he
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: has gotten hundreds of dollars from supporters, totally nearly thirty
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Now he's being ordered to pay restitution. That's will and good.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: My point is he contested the deal. He hasn't paid it.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: He's saying he doesn't want to pay it, that he's
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: unable to pay it, which is a lie because I
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: know about his five figures of money. He's got his
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: commissary account. To me, that's welching on a deal. Joe
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Scott Morgan is joining me, Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. He's the
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: star of a hit podcast which is incredible Body bags
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: with Joe Scott Morgan, on and on. But for our purposes,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: he is a veteran death investigator, thousands of death scene investigations,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: every cod every mod cause of death, matter of death.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: You can imagine why why.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Should this have never been a sweet plea deal? Let's
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: just start with that. Why is this so inflammatory that
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: this was even allowed to be a plea? And he's
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: ordered to pay the family's restitution after butchering their children,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: and now he's backing out of it. You know what, fine,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I'd be mad if you didn't. Let's go to trial.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Why is this so wrong?
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Joe Scott.
• 8:30
  Speaker 9: In South we have a term that says, let the
• 8:32
  Speaker 9: hide come with a hair. My granddaddy used to say
• 8:34
  Speaker 9: that all the time. If he feels froggy, let's jump,
• 8:36
  Speaker 9: let's go to trial. Because now we have buckets and
• 8:39
  Speaker 9: buckets of evidence that have been revealed. Now, I got
• 8:42
  Speaker 9: to tell you, Nancy, give me a little rope here.
• 8:44
  Speaker 9: I know I'm not an attorney, I understand that, but
• 8:47
  Speaker 9: he's kind of got a point of leverage here. They
• 8:49
  Speaker 9: just released a tranche of twenty four hundred documents of
• 8:53
  Speaker 9: forensic evidence. Now, so if this thing did go to trial.
• 8:58
  Speaker 9: Everything has been reveal and you know, if you think
• 9:02
  Speaker 9: about from the perspective of taining the jury pool, perhaps
• 9:05
  Speaker 9: they've seen all of this stuff. We've got images that
• 9:08
  Speaker 9: are floating around out there.
• 9:10
  Speaker 8: Nancy.
• 9:11
  Speaker 9: They have flown and I'll say this directly to the prosecutor,
• 9:14
  Speaker 9: they have flown this case into the side.
• 9:17
  Speaker 8: Of the mountain from Jump Street. All right.
• 9:20
  Speaker 9: They got nobody to blame but themselves. I was an
• 9:22
  Speaker 9: advocate from the beginning to say that he, like you
• 9:26
  Speaker 9: had mentioned a second ago, he should have allocuted in
• 9:29
  Speaker 9: court to everything that he did instead of sitting there,
• 9:33
  Speaker 9: Instead of sitting there and not saying a damn word
• 9:36
  Speaker 9: other than yes, I did it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 8: You know, even BTK was compelled. Nancy. There are people
• 9:41
  Speaker 8: sitting on death rod.
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: Right now in Idaho that have done far less butchery
• 9:47
  Speaker 9: than he does. He's killed four people, slaughtered them, and
• 9:51
  Speaker 9: now he's complaining about having to pay the family money.
• 9:54
  Speaker 9: This is a gigantic mess.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Just got Morgan.
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  Speaker 2: The nature of the murders was more akin to a
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: butchering a slaughtering. When I look at specifically, well, they're
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: all horrible. Ethan had his jugular vein slashed, which means
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: there was arterial bleeding, which means that coming from his neck.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Ethan's neck, it was like a water sprinkler in the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: front yard, spurting his life's blood until.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: He was dead.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: The disfiguration of Kie Gonsalvius, for her face was stabbed
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: between twenty and thirty times.
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  Speaker 3: Could not even identify her. He stabbed her teeth out of.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Her mouth and more. The other two Maddie and Xana
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: horribly horribly disfigured. Why is it that it is so
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: insulting it now he says he can't pay restitution. That
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: was part of the deal.
• 11:06
  Speaker 9: When you think about just Kaylee alone, Nancy, not only
• 11:09
  Speaker 9: was she stabbed, she had blunt force trauma to her face.
• 11:12
  Speaker 9: I actually believed that he took that k bar knife
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: and flipped it on the end of its handle. That
• 11:18
  Speaker 9: was driven into her multiple times too. You've got these
• 11:20
  Speaker 9: crushing injuries to her face. She's got severe maxial facial
• 11:24
  Speaker 9: facial damage. And then you know, you take this robust
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: knife blade and you drive it into her, and not
• 11:30
  Speaker 9: just her, but these other victims as well. You've got
• 11:33
  Speaker 9: Maddie laying there and she's been butchered as well. Nancy
• 11:37
  Speaker 9: this would have been a bloodbath contained to that, contained
• 11:40
  Speaker 9: to that bud, blood to the bed where they were killed.
• 11:43
  Speaker 9: And we've also got bloody deposition that's laying all over
• 11:47
  Speaker 9: the floor that appears to me, Nancy, that he was
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: standing there and probably gazing at the bodies as blood
• 11:54
  Speaker 9: is dripping and following away free form and striking the
• 11:57
  Speaker 9: ground directly below his feet. See this blood throughout the house.
• 12:01
  Speaker 9: The deposition that goes to this point that all of
• 12:04
  Speaker 9: this information now has been revealed, So you know, where
• 12:07
  Speaker 9: does the family turn at this point? In tom all
• 12:10
  Speaker 9: they're asking for is to show respect to their loved
• 12:15
  Speaker 9: ones that have been killed. Nancy, he must pay.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I don't understand what is wrong with the prosecutor. That's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: been asked many many times. The judge is basically spoon
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: feeding him with a silver spoon away out of his
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: disastrous plea deal.
• 12:30
  Speaker 10: Listen to Hipler, isn't a reasonable interpretation of the plea
• 12:34
  Speaker 10: agreement that the defendant will not contest the states seeking
• 12:44
  Speaker 10: of restitution that is outlined in the plea Agreementwise, otherwise
• 12:49
  Speaker 10: why would it need to be in the plea agreement?
• 12:52
  Speaker 10: It seems to me it's the plea agreement. A reasonable
• 12:55
  Speaker 10: interpretation is the defendant is agreeing to pay restitution for
• 12:59
  Speaker 10: those items that are identified in the plea agreement, which includes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: Victims compensation apartment, which includes in this case, funeral expenses.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Joining us tonight to special guests, the parents of Killi Gonsolvas,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Christy and Steve Christian and Steve, thank you for being
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: with us first listen to this.
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
• 13:31
  Speaker 6: the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: in turning their children?
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: Judge, I believe that our fleeting was clear, that we
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: understood that burns fell underneath of funeral.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Costs, but that once we have a hearing on this matter.
• 13:52
  Speaker 11: That doesn't eliminate the court's duty under nineteen fifty three
• 13:56
  Speaker 11: oh four to do the ability to pay analysis.
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: And that's why, well, are you in violation of the
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: plea agreement by arguing that your claient shouldn't have to.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Pay those and more from the judge.
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: for in the plea agreement itself.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: At this hour, Coburger has been contesting paying funeral expenses
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: on the four students he murdered. That's bad enough, but
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: here's the question. If he's renigging on the deal, then
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: the deal is off and this case can go to
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: trial if the prosecutor has the backbone to do.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: It, which I doubt.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Straight out to Christy and Steve Gonsalvez joining us, Christy,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you got a shocking letter from the prosecut Christy, could
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: you explain what the letter says?
• 15:04
  Speaker 11: Well, basically, it says that the travel expense part of
• 15:09
  Speaker 11: the restitution cannot be paid via the defendant's restitution, so
• 15:18
  Speaker 11: we can civilly sue him for it, which is just
• 15:22
  Speaker 11: you know, we're exhausted, you know, and now something is
• 15:28
  Speaker 11: just hard.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Christy?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Can I paraphrase what you just said? You can sue Coburger.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: That's what the prosecution is offering.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: The mother of a murdered girl.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna handle it, but you know what, you
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: can go hire a lawyer, Christy, and you can pay.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: The lawyer to sue Brian Coburger. Let's take a look
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: at this letter.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: It says, and it says, dear gentlemen, he can't even
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: write your name. Attached is a copy of the court's
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: order on state's requests for restitution copies of restitution orders.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: For your client's funeral related expenses.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: It tells you to look at footnote one at the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: bottom of page one. We were not able to pursue
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: travel expenses. We were not able to pursue Steve Gonzalez.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: What does that mean when the prosecutor writes you basically
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: a form letter referring to you and your wife and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: others as dear gentlemen.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: When I get something like that, I assume it's a
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: bill collector.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: The state, in other words, him was not able to
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: pursue your travel expenses where you had to leave your
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: job and your home and drive seven hours and hold
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: up in a hotel to be in court.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: They were quote not.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Able to pursue that from you. Coburger has five figures
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: sitting in his commissary account. He will make a movie deal,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: it's allowed under the.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Law in Idaho.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: He will write a book. But they did not pursue
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: those expenses for you.
• 17:14
  Speaker 12: Steve now Right off the get go, we said that
• 17:19
  Speaker 12: this deal, the plea deal, could be done, but it
• 17:22
  Speaker 12: has to be done correctly, and I didn't think he
• 17:24
  Speaker 12: had the skill level to do it correctly. That's why
• 17:27
  Speaker 12: we pretty much demanded that the attorney's generals get involved.
• 17:31
  Speaker 13: And you know, that was the best option we could have.
• 17:35
  Speaker 13: But yeah, he.
• 17:37
  Speaker 12: Doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he's over his head.
• 17:40
  Speaker 12: He's a boomer that's literally was trying to retire before
• 17:43
  Speaker 12: this case even happened, and he's mentally retired. So we're
• 17:47
  Speaker 12: the ones losing thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of
• 17:50
  Speaker 12: dollars to his mistakes. And it's embarrassing for the state
• 17:53
  Speaker 12: of Idaho. And I mean, we did everything for that
• 17:57
  Speaker 12: courtroom so that they could get the resource and they
• 18:00
  Speaker 12: can get the attention, and we just couldn't.
• 18:03
  Speaker 13: Get him out of that room.
• 18:04
  Speaker 12: And that's really, that really is what's hurting this case
• 18:07
  Speaker 12: is we have Thompson in there just dropping the ball
• 18:10
  Speaker 12: repeatedly over and over and literally omitting it like I
• 18:15
  Speaker 12: totally screwed up, not apologizing but just saying I screwed up.
• 18:18
  Speaker 12: I mean, because it's clearly obvious. The whole world's watching.
• 18:22
  Speaker 12: He can't get himself out of it. But we've been
• 18:24
  Speaker 12: bringing attention to this from the very beginning that there
• 18:27
  Speaker 12: was I mean, we talked about his office leaking information
• 18:31
  Speaker 12: because we knew where the information was coming from, but.
• 18:34
  Speaker 13: Nobody ever investigated it.
• 18:35
  Speaker 12: Nobody even came to our family and said, how did
• 18:37
  Speaker 12: you guys know that they were leaking information?
• 18:41
  Speaker 13: Even nobody's interviewed us to this day.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you how you know it was the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: prosecutor's office that was leaking the info. Remember there was
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: going to be a big investigation and then it just disappeared.
• 18:55
  Speaker 12: There's a couple different ways, and I can't I won't
• 18:57
  Speaker 12: get into it on an open microphone like this, But
• 19:01
  Speaker 12: if you go and look how Anne knew to subpoena
• 19:05
  Speaker 12: my lawyer and our family and what we were discussing. Basically,
• 19:11
  Speaker 12: if you reverse that back, you're going to figure out
• 19:13
  Speaker 12: that somebody in that room told Anne that we were
• 19:17
  Speaker 12: talking about one of the witnesses and we knew information
• 19:21
  Speaker 12: about her. So she knew to subpoena our lawyer and
• 19:25
  Speaker 12: the conversations that we were having with just his office.
• 19:29
  Speaker 12: So how does Anne know how does she even know
• 19:31
  Speaker 12: that she should be requesting the communication from our personal
• 19:36
  Speaker 12: lawyer to them what.
• 19:38
  Speaker 11: Christy emails she was requesting all emails from from our attorney,
• 19:44
  Speaker 11: Shannon Gray, our family regarding this witness.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And it was like, okay, and the only tom you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: discussed that was with reps from the DA's office.
• 19:57
  Speaker 13: Exactly.
• 19:58
  Speaker 12: Those are the only people we communicated with officially, and
• 20:01
  Speaker 12: we didn't talk to anyone else about what we had
• 20:03
  Speaker 12: heard it. We had just heard it within probably forty
• 20:05
  Speaker 12: eight hours, and forget about it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: He says, and I'm quoting as we previously submitted response
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: to the court. We believe the crime actant's compensation would
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: be able to reimburse travel and accommodation expenses after the fact.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Then we learned that wasn't correct, So they entered into
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: a deal before they even knew whether you could get
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: reimbursed for all that.
• 20:32
  Speaker 12: That's what it sounds like to me on a Sunday
• 20:35
  Speaker 12: after like talking to us on Friday. I mean, these
• 20:39
  Speaker 12: guys didn't do much work at all, but now they're
• 20:42
  Speaker 12: working on their Sundays to basically throw the case away.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: From crime Stories with Nancy Grace. But the last sentence
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: in this letter makes me just want to chew and
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: nail in half quote. At this point, it appears there
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: are no remaining outstanding legal issues in the criminal case
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: other than ongoing.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Review of previously sealed documents for.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Possible public release. Sincerely, William W. Thompson, Jr. No remaining issues.
• 21:21
  Speaker 11: I thought that was very weird.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Now I condolences, no sympathy, no empathy, no anything.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Basically a form letter covering his rear end.
• 21:37
  Speaker 11: I was very surprised to see how it When I
• 21:39
  Speaker 11: read that last sentence too, I was like, Wow, that's.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: How we're going to end it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 11: No further problems. If you guys want to get a
• 21:48
  Speaker 11: civil lawyer, you could sue them on your own separately.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But I'm very curious, why do you believe what could
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the possible motivate should be. I have a theory that
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: someone in the prosecution's office that you were speaking with,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and I can only assume that you went straight to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: the top discussing issues with a trial witness, and then
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: within hours the defense attorney suddenly wants to subpoena your
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: lawyer's documents about conversations regarding that witness. All I can
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: think of is that the prosecution Thompson wanted to further
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: along a plea deal by releasing potentially damning evidence on
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: a witness.
• 22:41
  Speaker 11: That's what we thought.
• 22:43
  Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, if you connect the dots, you could see
• 22:46
  Speaker 13: that because the information.
• 22:49
  Speaker 12: That we had for them was daming, was damning to
• 22:54
  Speaker 12: be case. So certain things people want to leak to
• 22:59
  Speaker 12: scare people, to intimidate them, to let them think that
• 23:02
  Speaker 12: there's more going on than what is, or or just
• 23:05
  Speaker 12: letting them know that you've got you've got some information
• 23:07
  Speaker 12: that they're not completely pavy privy to. So obviously something
• 23:13
  Speaker 12: was going on because she knew to ask for our communications,
• 23:16
  Speaker 12: and it just makes no sense how she would know that.
• 23:20
  Speaker 12: This whole case has just been so hard to deal with.
• 23:23
  Speaker 12: I mean, and we always all we did was a
• 23:25
  Speaker 12: demand that whoever was in that courtroom that they they
• 23:28
  Speaker 12: just did their best job every single day. And I
• 23:31
  Speaker 12: remember telling Thompson because I was warned that he wasn't
• 23:34
  Speaker 12: the man who could get this job done. So I
• 23:37
  Speaker 12: just said, hey, if you're not, if you're checked out,
• 23:40
  Speaker 12: if you want to retire, I get it. I respect
• 23:42
  Speaker 12: you. You worked your whole life, you're seventy some years old.
• 23:45
  Speaker 12: You don't want it, step away, step away somebody.
• 23:49
  Speaker 13: We'll go get someone. But he wanted to fame, but
• 23:53
  Speaker 13: he didn't want the work.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: Christy and Steve.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: The fact that Coburger is contesting issues within the plea deal,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that's not the banner the important part of this. We
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: know he's contesting paying restitution. Could that and rescind renig.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: The plea deal?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Because if he is backing out of conditions of the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: plea deal, then the deal is off. Have you considered
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: this could take the case to trial if Coburger himself
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: is refusing to pay restitution as ordered in the plea deal.
• 24:36
  Speaker 11: Well, when you bring it up to our attention like that,
• 24:39
  Speaker 11: you know, with with your knowledge of how a court is,
• 24:42
  Speaker 11: how courtrooms run, and what has happened, I would love
• 24:48
  Speaker 11: for that to happen. But I feel like it's all
• 24:51
  Speaker 11: just games and none of it is taken serious. Like, oh,
• 24:54
  Speaker 11: he doesn't want to pay his restitution. Slap slap, slap,
• 24:57
  Speaker 11: You can't do that. Pay your restitution? Move gone not.
• 25:01
  Speaker 11: You know, you did a huge thing. You violated the
• 25:03
  Speaker 11: plea deal. There's no you know, second chances. We're going
• 25:07
  Speaker 11: to trial.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: Just all game.
• 25:09
  Speaker 11: It's just all the defense game. I mean, it just
• 25:12
  Speaker 11: games all the way around. I just feel like it's
• 25:14
  Speaker 11: just never ending. And now we're left with well, you
• 25:17
  Speaker 11: could civily sue, and that's just so frustrating. It's like,
• 25:20
  Speaker 11: you know what, we're out, you know, a lot of
• 25:22
  Speaker 11: money with everything. The last thing we want to do
• 25:25
  Speaker 11: is sue and just be drugging.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Did more and more court.
• 25:28
  Speaker 11: You know, we were just hoping that they could handle it,
• 25:30
  Speaker 11: the state could handle it on our behalf. So it
• 25:33
  Speaker 11: would be nice to say you violated the plea deal.
• 25:36
  Speaker 11: So we're going to trial.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: Well, this is what bills Dante Steve. Let's look at this.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: So I take a play deal.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Twenty to serve, all right, and the definite thing goes, yeah,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Going to do that.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not going to do twenty. Well, then
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the deal is off. Pay your restitution. It's an important
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: part of that deal. And if Coburger contests it, fine,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I'd be mad if he didn't. Now let's go to trial.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: That is possible. He's nigging on the deal. That's on him.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So what you'd have to do, what we would have
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: to do is get Thompson off this case.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: He can't try this case.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Someone else, an independent prosecutor, would have to try it,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: which would be great.
• 26:26
  Speaker 12: I would love to see that. I would see that,
• 26:28
  Speaker 12: and for that lector, that letter. He doesn't respect the
• 26:31
  Speaker 12: investigation that Hitler's doing. He didn't say that that was
• 26:34
  Speaker 12: still going on. He said, we're done, we're over. He
• 26:37
  Speaker 12: has no fear of Hitpler's investigation because he holds all
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: the cards, he has all the power. So really I
• 26:45
  Speaker 12: would love for an independent person to come in and
• 26:47
  Speaker 12: look at it. And we're talking about this guy has
• 26:50
  Speaker 12: been trying to control the narrative, you know, pKa from
• 26:52
  Speaker 12: the very beginning, the Minuy he even got in prison,
• 26:55
  Speaker 12: he started writing up complaints and started doing formalities and saying,
• 26:58
  Speaker 12: you're gonna transferm me, You're gonna do this, You're gonna
• 27:00
  Speaker 12: do that. We got to just put our foot down
• 27:02
  Speaker 12: to these kind of psychopath killers and stop entertaining them
• 27:05
  Speaker 12: and stop treating them with baby gloves.
• 27:08
  Speaker 13: It's just it's just disgusting.
• 27:10
  Speaker 12: And and and we're doing it all the way up
• 27:13
  Speaker 12: three years later, we're still entertaining and.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Still question have either you or Christy reached out to
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: the FEDS to take this case.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: To them.
• 27:28
  Speaker 12: I have talked to this that it's been a while
• 27:29
  Speaker 12: since I have, but they're the ones that told me
• 27:32
  Speaker 12: Thompson wasn't even ready for this.
• 27:34
  Speaker 13: I don't go with this guy. This, this is not
• 27:36
  Speaker 13: gonna it's not get in well.
• 27:37
  Speaker 12: But they also at the same time told me we're
• 27:40
  Speaker 12: not going to give you the death penalty either.
• 27:41
  Speaker 13: So I tried to pick the lesser of.
• 27:43
  Speaker 12: The two to two evils, and I was saying, well,
• 27:47
  Speaker 12: at least I get the death penalty in Idaho. And
• 27:48
  Speaker 12: I had a lot of belief in the Idaho system.
• 27:52
  Speaker 12: I was just let down by a prosecutor who just
• 27:55
  Speaker 12: was already retired and I didn't know it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Steve and Christy Gomsolve was joining us to on top
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of these revelations in this cold blooded form letter from
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: the prosecutor to them saying, yeah, you're not going to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: ever get your money back.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: That's insult to injury.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: The money. Yeah, they're out a lot of money, thousands
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: of dollars. They're out their daughter, they are out their daughter.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Their daughter was horribly murdered, and we didn't know the
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: truth about what happened to Kiahy until after the secret
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Plea deal goes down and now they're getting another gut
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: punch from a maid for TV movie and this is
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: what their daughter, Olivia.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Has to say.
• 28:40
  Speaker 14: Hi, so that's not iconic. You're young, so maybe you
• 28:43
  Speaker 14: don't know. But I've looked at the past that you've done,
• 28:46
  Speaker 14: and I think you know. There is such a thing
• 28:49
  Speaker 14: as defamation, which can be crushing to a career. Not
• 28:57
  Speaker 14: that you really have one, but if you'd like one,
• 29:04
  Speaker 14: maybe you should just think about it. Maybe you should
• 29:07
  Speaker 14: just think about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you
• 29:11
  Speaker 14: should just think about what you put out into the world,
• 29:15
  Speaker 14: like dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think
• 29:20
  Speaker 14: about the projects that you take on. Maybe you should
• 29:24
  Speaker 14: think that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
• 29:30
  Speaker 14: So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
• 29:37
  Speaker 14: you might be capable of it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm at Olivia Goon's office on TikTok, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: ever since she first opened her mouth, I knew that
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: she's a champion.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: What is she talking about?
• 29:50
  Speaker 11: Christy Well, one of the actresses, I think it was
• 29:56
  Speaker 11: the one portraying Kaylee had to TikTok and they were
• 30:01
  Speaker 11: her and Matt her and Maddie were dressed up, they
• 30:05
  Speaker 11: were bleeding, and they were dancing with the defendant and
• 30:09
  Speaker 11: the three of them were dancing and laughing and hoot
• 30:11
  Speaker 11: and hollering and whatnot and carrying on. And she posted
• 30:14
  Speaker 11: it on TikTok something about you know, loving your job
• 30:17
  Speaker 11: or something, and it was like they were just appalled.
• 30:20
  Speaker 11: We were like, Okay, have fun with your coworkers after work,
• 30:24
  Speaker 11: but I mean, do you have to, you know, be
• 30:28
  Speaker 11: dancing around.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And you were seeing this from Haley Hanson on TikTok. Christy,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: when you discovered that this was going on, how did
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: that make you feel? Because even this many years later
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: after my fiance was murdered, when people write about it
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and make negative comments about it, it never goes away
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: the pain from that much less someone dancing around on
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: TikTok talk in the middle of portraying Kiley.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It's very hard. It makes you sick.
• 31:07
  Speaker 11: It makes you literally sick to your stomach. And there
• 31:10
  Speaker 11: there were others where she is dressed up, you know,
• 31:14
  Speaker 11: with a lot of blood on her and stuff and
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: and smiling and saying you know, oh, I'm all you know,
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: ready for my, my, my scene. It's just it's disgusting
• 31:27
  Speaker 11: and it hurts and it makes you just it makes
• 31:29
  Speaker 11: you ill that that somebody would actually take a role
• 31:32
  Speaker 11: to portray somebody that died in such a horrific way
• 31:37
  Speaker 11: and take make light of it, make light of it
• 31:39
  Speaker 11: and and have it to have fun doing it, you know,
• 31:43
  Speaker 11: like not even somber or like, gosh, this is really hard.
• 31:47
  Speaker 11: But no, you know, let's have a dance party after
• 31:50
  Speaker 11: and let's make tiktoks in between scenes.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Stayle solvice.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I know that you guys have much bigger issues than
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: some actress Haley Hanson dancing around in fake blood during
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: an outtake of during a break from the movie. You
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: have a lot more on your plate than that. But
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: how did that strike you? Because I can see how
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: upset Olivia is about it.
• 32:26
  Speaker 12: I look at the bigger picture and it feels like
• 32:29
  Speaker 12: every time I turn on the TV, I see some
• 32:31
  Speaker 12: like shooting, killing, mass murder, and I think to myself,
• 32:36
  Speaker 12: we have.
• 32:37
  Speaker 13: Multiple problems, but one of them.
• 32:39
  Speaker 12: Is kids who think they can do TikTok dances after
• 32:42
  Speaker 12: you know, as being part of this messaging, is part
• 32:45
  Speaker 12: of this narrative, is part of this corrective measure. If
• 32:47
  Speaker 12: you want to say that's what they're trying to do,
• 32:49
  Speaker 12: because I want to refuse to think that it's entertainment.
• 32:53
  Speaker 12: But clearly that organization doesn't understand what they're trying to represent,
• 32:59
  Speaker 12: and they don't have a clear message, and they're not
• 33:01
  Speaker 12: trying to help society get better and figure out. You know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 12: when these people put out these red flags, that we
• 33:07
  Speaker 12: do something about it. Part of that could be a
• 33:10
  Speaker 12: documentation or a document on it and say, you know,
• 33:14
  Speaker 12: these are the red flags, and if you see these
• 33:16
  Speaker 12: things in your community, you know, put your foot down
• 33:18
  Speaker 12: and make sure that somebody takes action. But when you
• 33:22
  Speaker 12: see kids dancing and doing stuff like that and making
• 33:25
  Speaker 12: light of the whole situation, you know that do the
• 33:27
  Speaker 12: exact same thing to somebody else's child and somebody else's school,
• 33:30
  Speaker 12: shooting some of somebody else's you know, tragedy, And you're like,
• 33:34
  Speaker 12: we're just going to use this all over again if
• 33:36
  Speaker 12: we don't, if we don't learn from from these people
• 33:39
  Speaker 12: and from these these cowards, we got to put some action,
• 33:42
  Speaker 12: and we got to put some action behind our words.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Joining us tonight, Christy and Steve go, thank you for
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: being with us. I know that every time you have
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: to talk about this, It just brings it all up again.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: If you could have wish, which of course would be
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: to have Kelly back, what would be your wish now.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Regarding this feuror.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And Coberger refusing to pay restitution and this ridiculous movie,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: what is your wish Christy?
• 34:24
  Speaker 11: You know, I mean the wish of wanting Kayley back
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: is obviously that that's not possible. So my only other
• 34:31
  Speaker 11: wish would be for him to hurry up and take
• 34:35
  Speaker 11: a sauce breath and just we could be done. We
• 34:37
  Speaker 11: can never have to talk about him again. And as
• 34:41
  Speaker 11: far as movies go and and books, you know, you
• 34:47
  Speaker 11: just got to roll with the punches. I mean, you
• 34:49
  Speaker 11: can't fight them all, you just can't. But him being
• 34:53
  Speaker 11: dead would be great. I'd be my way me.
• 34:57
  Speaker 12: I would try to make something positive out of it
• 34:59
  Speaker 12: as much as you poss we can. And I feel
• 35:01
  Speaker 12: like that's what me, Livy and the family's doing is
• 35:03
  Speaker 12: we're trying to put some actions.
• 35:04
  Speaker 13: We're trying to put We're trying to rally around anyone.
• 35:07
  Speaker 12: Who who sees something disgusting and puts their foot down
• 35:10
  Speaker 12: and says, all right, I've had enough.
• 35:13
  Speaker 13: I think that's that's the best we can do.
• 35:15
  Speaker 12: And if we can take this murder and all the
• 35:18
  Speaker 12: people's attention on it and say, hey, there's no point
• 35:21
  Speaker 12: of having.
• 35:21
  Speaker 13: Red flags if we're not doing something about it.
• 35:23
  Speaker 12: And we see all these killers, and we look back
• 35:27
  Speaker 12: at their past behaviors and there's all these red flags,
• 35:30
  Speaker 12: but just not enough action behind them. People just dodging
• 35:34
  Speaker 12: the bullets, just saying we didn't know he was a
• 35:38
  Speaker 12: normal person.
• 35:38
  Speaker 13: No, you did know. There was things there. There was
• 35:40
  Speaker 13: girls making complaints all around this individual, over and over,
• 35:43
  Speaker 13: and you just refuse to listen to them. You just
• 35:46
  Speaker 13: refuse to do something when they were crying out for help.
• 35:49
  Speaker 13: And it's happening all the way to today. We're going
• 35:52
  Speaker 13: to lose tens of thousand dollars because a prosecutor refused
• 35:55
  Speaker 13: to help us. If he couldn't do it, he didn't,
• 35:57
  Speaker 13: whatever the reason, he failed us, and it's just happening
• 36:01
  Speaker 13: over and over and over, and we just we need
• 36:03
  Speaker 13: some accountability. And this family's all about, you know, doing
• 36:07
  Speaker 13: whatever we can for these girls, these victims, to make
• 36:11
  Speaker 13: sure that something comes out of it that changes society
• 36:14
  Speaker 13: and helps, you know, reduce this type of type of crime. Ever, again,
• 36:20
  Speaker 13: that's the best I can hope for.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Kelly Gonsolvis didn't get to pick her mode of death.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: She didn't get to pick whether she lived or died.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Neither did Maddie, neither did Ethan, neither did Sanna. To
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: any Alasta joining us in addition to furor over the
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Lifetime movie where the actors and actresses are actually doing
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: TikTok dancing, some of them still in their bloody clothing,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: portraying Kelly and others and posting that that's a whole
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: other can of worms. Can I talk about what matters,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: and that is the trial and Coberger's refusal to pay restitution.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: As was ordered in the plea agreement.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Name Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Anny Alice joining me the star of a true crime podcast. Seriously,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: she's been on this case from the very beginning. Annie,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us tonight. Annie. I'm just curious.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I know that Coburger's family sent him a lot of money,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: but other people are donating.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: To Brian Coburger.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Why aren't they donating to the families of the victims
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: on their gofundmes? Who are these people?
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: Nancy? It is so unnerving when you really break it down,
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: because nearly thirty thousand dollars has now poured into his account.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: And you know what, we've seen this before, the strange
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: fan base, the dark celebrity treatment we saw with Chris
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Watts as well. But what the motivation is here? I
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: don't know if it's that people truly believe he's innocent,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: if it's women who think they can fix him. But
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: let's be clear, these people are sending money to an
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: admitted quadruple murderer. They need to rethink what they're actually
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: supporting here.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: You know, any Elise, it reminds me of Luigi Magngioni,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and much was made of the fact that about forty
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars at the get go had been funneled into
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: his commissary account. Same with Coburger. It's five figures we
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: now believe to be over thirty thousand dollars.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Are they lovelorn women? I mean, I don't understand who is.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Trying to support Coburger, But you're right, Annie Online, I
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: see it all the time. People actually angry when I
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: discuss his guilt. He pled guilty? Did I just dreamed
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: that whole thing? He pled guilty in court. Annie, No,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: you are absolutely right.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: There's a group out there that actually call themselves the
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: pro Burgers, where they are advocating for his innocence, saying
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: that it's all a setup, that it's all a cover,
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: and I argue with them as well. You know, he
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: admitted to what he did, not in the way that
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of us hoped he would with
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: full allocution, but he did admit to butchering these four students.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: So for them to now be sending him money still
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: advocating for him, they need there needs to be some
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: sort of recalibration here. It does not make any sense
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: what they're supporting.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Any Elise Also tonight there is an uproar and I
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: think it's justified regarding a lifetime movie about Brian Coburger's
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: butchering these four students, and one of the first people
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: to speak out is Kihlee Gonsovus's sister.
• 39:50
  Speaker 14: Listen and I love to do iconic, Hi, so that's
• 39:57
  Speaker 14: not iconic. You're young, so maybe you don't know, but
• 40:00
  Speaker 14: I've looked at the past if you've done, and I
• 40:02
  Speaker 14: think you know, there is such a thing as defamation,
• 40:08
  Speaker 14: which can be crushing to a career, not that you
• 40:13
  Speaker 14: really have one, but if you'd like one, maybe you
• 40:20
  Speaker 14: should just think about it. Maybe you should just think
• 40:23
  Speaker 14: about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you should just
• 40:28
  Speaker 14: think about what you put out into the world, like
• 40:31
  Speaker 14: dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think about
• 40:36
  Speaker 14: the projects that you take on. Maybe you should think
• 40:41
  Speaker 14: that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
• 40:45
  Speaker 14: So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
• 40:53
  Speaker 14: you might be capable of it.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: There you see Kaylee's sister taking to the airways on
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: TikTok with outrage against this movie, but more so about
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: this Listen, why.
• 41:05
  Speaker 15: This was even a concept that was pitched. I can't
• 41:09
  Speaker 15: begin to understand. I don't think anyone wants to see
• 41:11
  Speaker 15: a dramatized version of how these four young people were
• 41:16
  Speaker 15: killed in their home.
• 41:19
  Speaker 8: Mind you, the.
• 41:20
  Speaker 15: Trial for the murderer was only a few months ago.
• 41:24
  Speaker 15: I hope and pray Lifetime decides to pull this from
• 41:28
  Speaker 15: production and never continue, never ever, ever.
• 41:31
  Speaker 16: If you sit back and you look at the loved
• 41:34
  Speaker 16: ones perspectives for just a second, because no one can
• 41:36
  Speaker 16: imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, but
• 41:39
  Speaker 16: to see an entire movie being made about their lives,
• 41:43
  Speaker 16: casting actresses to play them and they're not even involved
• 41:48
  Speaker 16: in this, and they really have no say of stopping in.
• 41:53
  Speaker 13: This just feels.
• 41:56
  Speaker 16: Really unsettling.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Not only has Kaylee's sister spoken out, I gat about
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: not just the movie, but the actress and actresses doing
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: a bloody dance scene sequence where they actually are still
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: in costume covered in blood.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: What happened?
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: So I think that's where the outrage is here. Everybody
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: expects that Lifetime and other networks will make movies and
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: react to real life cases, but the way in which
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: the actors are handling this, that's what's not landing.
• 42:32
  Speaker 17: Well.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: Not only are they recreating dance scenes and little catchy
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: voiceovers to these moves between takes, but there's also been
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: times in which they are still in wardrobe, there is
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: blood on them, and they are offset in their trailer
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: or wherever they are, and they're doing these viral dance
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: moves and it is just classless, tactless, and of course
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: has upset a lot of the family members. Kaylee's sister,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: as you mentioned, has been very outspoken about this. I
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: did reach out to her and chatted with her briefly
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: about it, because not only is she upset that they
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: didn't consult the family before moving forward with this film,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: but also because of the behavior that is happening during filming,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: just the disregard for the reality and the brutality of
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: this being a real life situation that this family went through,
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: you know too.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Chris McDonald and joining me director Cole Case Foundation, former
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: homicide detective who has been on the case from the beginning.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: He and I going to the scene and investigating. You
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: can find him on YouTube at the interview room.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Chris.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Obviously, the guys at Lifetime and these actresses, actresses and
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: actress have never been to an actual crime scene, or
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: they would not be making light of it.
• 43:49
  Speaker 18: Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know, let's remember when
• 43:52
  Speaker 18: you make a deal with the devil, he's going to
• 43:54
  Speaker 18: come collecting, and it looks like he's collecting right now,
• 43:58
  Speaker 18: like what Doc Morgan was talking about just a minute ago. Nancy,
• 44:01
  Speaker 18: Let's not forget that there's evidence of aspiration blood, meaning
• 44:07
  Speaker 18: while Brian Kolberger is stabbing these individuals so brutally, they
• 44:13
  Speaker 18: are trying to breathe, And this is what we're dealing with.
• 44:17
  Speaker 18: And if our culture thinks that's a good thing. We
• 44:21
  Speaker 18: need to take a hard look in the mirror.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: J Scott, you heard what Chris mcdunnag just said. He's
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: the expert. He's been to thousands of crime scenes. Obviously,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: the actresses and actors and the producers at Lifetime have
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: never been to an actual crime scene. Could you explain
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: what this crime scene was really like, Joe Scott.
• 44:47
  Speaker 9: As Chris had mentioned, there was aspiration of this blood
• 44:51
  Speaker 9: and kind of let me give you a for instance
• 44:53
  Speaker 9: for this. So if a lung is penetrated and airway
• 44:56
  Speaker 9: is penetrated, you aspirate that blood, which means you you
• 45:00
  Speaker 9: draw in and then you expiated nancy. So it's literally
• 45:05
  Speaker 9: blown out like this. So you can see the blood
• 45:08
  Speaker 9: deposited on various surfaces, and it looks different than say
• 45:12
  Speaker 9: standard like blood splatter where you see something driven or
• 45:15
  Speaker 9: struck into an area. It's kind of got an air
• 45:18
  Speaker 9: rated appearance to it. It's almost sometimes you'll even see
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: air bubbles in it. And that really lets you know
• 45:24
  Speaker 9: about these final moments that they have just screaming for life,
• 45:28
  Speaker 9: screaming for air because their brain is screaming out they
• 45:31
  Speaker 9: can no longer breathe, and that's the brutality that's involved,
• 45:35
  Speaker 9: and these people that live in this fantasy world like this,
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: that try to make a buck off of these poor people.
• 45:42
  Speaker 9: It's beyond the pale, Nancy. I wish, just for once
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: they could come and let me take them to an autopsy.
• 45:48
  Speaker 9: Let them see what that's like. Let them hear the
• 45:51
  Speaker 9: screams and the wails of the family. I bet they
• 45:53
  Speaker 9: won't want to do this again.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Scott, the brutality inflicted on Kelly gonna solve us alone.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Can you describe what happened to her face?
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And now these actresses, this actress covered in blood is
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: doing a dance tik talk about it, still covered in
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: fake blood.
• 46:10
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 46:10
  Speaker 9: He's taking a heavy steel blade and driving it through
• 46:14
  Speaker 9: her face. And I still contend that he took it
• 46:17
  Speaker 9: around because there were other abrasions on her face. Took
• 46:19
  Speaker 9: it around and began to pummel her with the handle
• 46:23
  Speaker 9: like this, and probably inverted the handle and began to
• 46:26
  Speaker 9: do this as well, driving it almost like the head
• 46:28
  Speaker 9: of a hanner into her face, over and over and
• 46:31
  Speaker 9: over again. Nancy, she had so many wounds that dig
• 46:35
  Speaker 9: this had so many wounds that they were cross communicating
• 46:38
  Speaker 9: and overlying one another. It was hard to delineate between
• 46:41
  Speaker 9: these wounds because of the inflicted trauma, where you've got
• 46:45
  Speaker 9: this overlapping that occurs that happens a lot in cases,
• 46:48
  Speaker 9: but here you had it happen with multiple people, just
• 46:53
  Speaker 9: Maddie as well, that happened with her as well, where
• 46:57
  Speaker 9: you had these cross communications of injury with her as well.
• 47:01
  Speaker 9: So this was a level of brutality that I think
• 47:04
  Speaker 9: that probably for those crime Sene investigators that were out
• 47:07
  Speaker 9: there that seen none of them had ever borne witness
• 47:09
  Speaker 9: to anything like this before.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Could you describe a scene of arterial bleeding such as
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: what Ethan suffered.
• 47:18
  Speaker 9: Yeah, So every time a vessel is clipped and the
• 47:22
  Speaker 9: heart is still beating, and remember just because you have
• 47:24
  Speaker 9: a vessel that has been clipped in your neck doesn't
• 47:28
  Speaker 9: mean that you die. He eventually dies of what's referred
• 47:31
  Speaker 9: to as exanguination, which means you're bleeding out. The loss
• 47:36
  Speaker 9: of blood is incompatible with life, and so the blood
• 47:39
  Speaker 9: is literally depositing itself as it's spraying out from the injuries.
• 47:43
  Speaker 9: Every time that heart beats, it pulses, it contracts. That
• 47:47
  Speaker 9: blood is driven out through that open wound and it
• 47:50
  Speaker 9: deposits on any of the adjacent surfaces, and you could
• 47:54
  Speaker 9: see this. Sometimes you'll see it in kind of this
• 47:56
  Speaker 9: histamine like spray that kind of arcs over a wall.
• 48:00
  Speaker 9: I've seen this multiple times, it seems, and it almost
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: looks like a bloody rainbow, layer upon layer, and the
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: person's writhing in pain. And so that pattern is going
• 48:10
  Speaker 9: to change every time that blood spurts out. And that
• 48:13
  Speaker 9: would have told the tale with any of these investigators
• 48:15
  Speaker 9: that were out there, born witness to what Ethan had
• 48:19
  Speaker 9: had gone through. And here's the thing, Nancy, Nobody in
• 48:22
  Speaker 9: court's ever going to see that, are they He's going
• 48:24
  Speaker 9: to get there. This guy is going to be able
• 48:26
  Speaker 9: just to say, yeah, yeah, well I did it, But
• 48:29
  Speaker 9: no one's ever going to be able to see the
• 48:30
  Speaker 9: horror that he actually inflicted on these people. And that's
• 48:33
  Speaker 9: why he's got three hots in the cot. Now, doesn't he.
• 48:37
  Speaker 19: Trying on a location of the emergency? You don't know
• 48:43
  Speaker 19: what what is there of the emergency? What is the
• 48:54
  Speaker 19: rest of the address. Okay, and there's the house for
• 49:00
  Speaker 19: an apartment? It's the house. Can you repeat theadress to
• 49:04
  Speaker 19: make sure that I have it right.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you guys.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: We're we live at the lights cover next to them.
• 49:12
  Speaker 19: I need someone to repeat theadress for raterification. The address
• 49:16
  Speaker 19: one one to two King Drugs.
• 49:18
  Speaker 17: Hailey Hanson plays Kayleie Gonzovez in the new Lifetime movie
• 49:22
  Speaker 17: The Idaho Murders and uploads of video to TikTok dancing
• 49:26
  Speaker 17: with the actors playing Maddie Mogan and Brian Coberger as
• 49:29
  Speaker 17: all three are dressed in character. The video has upset
• 49:33
  Speaker 17: family and friends who see the portrayal as disrespectful. Hailey
• 49:36
  Speaker 17: Hansen took the video down.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Joining us now doctor John Delatorre. He is a licensed
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: psychologist and he specializes in forensic psychology. You have worked
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: with so many crime victims. You've got, on one hand,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Coburger refusing to pay restitution for the earns of his
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: victims that he butchered. Then you've got a Lifetime movie
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: where the actresses and actors are doing dance tiktoks covered
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: in fake blood. I mean, this family, these four families
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: have been through hell and back. They've got a prosecutor
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: that writes them a form letter explaining why, oh yeah,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: if you want anything more, you Consie Civilly, why don't
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: you go hire a lawyer. Will it never end for
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: these people?
• 50:30
  Speaker 15: No?
• 50:30
  Speaker 20: Probably not. I mean when then all of these wounds
• 50:33
  Speaker 20: are going to be reopened once this movie actually comes out.
• 50:36
  Speaker 20: Because here's the nefarious thing. I highly doubt that this
• 50:40
  Speaker 20: movie is really going to take the crime victims right
• 50:43
  Speaker 20: where they're really going to look at the lives of
• 50:46
  Speaker 20: these young lives, These young, beautiful lives are really going
• 50:49
  Speaker 20: to be taken center stage. I imagine everything is going
• 50:51
  Speaker 20: to be focused on Brian Coberger because that's where people
• 50:55
  Speaker 20: think that they're interested live. But these four people deserve
• 50:59
  Speaker 20: to have a life. If they needed a movie, they
• 51:01
  Speaker 20: should be the focus, and instead they're probably going to
• 51:03
  Speaker 20: just be relegated to the four victims in Brian Coberger's massacre.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: You know what, delatory, who is going to profit off
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: this movie other than lifetime. If they were telling the
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: stories of the victims' families, they would probably profit. But
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I doubt very seriously that that's the way it's going
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 51:26
  Speaker 8: No, of course not.
• 51:27
  Speaker 20: Of course, that's not going to be the thing because
• 51:29
  Speaker 20: in their mind, right, the producers of this movie, in
• 51:32
  Speaker 20: their mind, the idea is that we're going to bring
• 51:34
  Speaker 20: in all the eyeballs because people want to understand the
• 51:37
  Speaker 20: complexities of Brian Coberger. Brian Coberger is not complex. He's
• 51:42
  Speaker 20: not even that interesting.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Complexities of Brian Coberger.
• 51:46
  Speaker 20: I don't think he's I don't think he's complex. That's
• 51:50
  Speaker 20: what the producers think. I think and those people, people
• 51:54
  Speaker 20: like me that actually care about humanity, who actually have empathy,
• 51:58
  Speaker 20: want to hear the stories, want to hear the stories
• 52:01
  Speaker 20: of these victims. Want to hear about the lives of
• 52:03
  Speaker 20: these victims and the traumas that they had to face
• 52:05
  Speaker 20: and their family members have to experience. Now, we don't
• 52:08
  Speaker 20: want to see a movie about Brian Colberger. I know
• 52:10
  Speaker 20: I don't want to see it. I want to hear
• 52:12
  Speaker 20: about these stories of these young lives loss, these young
• 52:15
  Speaker 20: beautiful lives loss.
• 52:16
  Speaker 13: That's what I.
• 52:17
  Speaker 8: Want to hear.
• 52:17
  Speaker 20: But producers don't think that people will watch that.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Chris mcdona, you and I have investigated and tried hundreds
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: thousands of cases at this point. Who wants to go
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: into the mind of Brian Coburger and do a dramatization
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: of him.
• 52:38
  Speaker 18: That's a great question, Nancy, I mean, and isn't that
• 52:41
  Speaker 18: the big the big problem here in our society as
• 52:45
  Speaker 18: a whole in terms of, you know, the access to
• 52:47
  Speaker 18: social media where we get instant gratification and we think
• 52:51
  Speaker 18: in bits and bites anymore. But we forget this one
• 52:54
  Speaker 18: point and you just raised it a couple of minutes ago.
• 52:57
  Speaker 18: You know this guy sat in that room post mortem,
• 53:01
  Speaker 18: experimenting on those bodies. Why is that important for the
• 53:06
  Speaker 18: public to know? In terms of let's make a movie
• 53:09
  Speaker 18: about this. It's crazy. We've lost our minds.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: You know, Josh Cole's rude. I'm trying to think. I'm
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: an alternative. If you're like me, my mind is already
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: raced for about twenty steps. What's the best alternative? Is
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: there a way to throw out the play deal? I mean,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: the Lifetime movie and the actresses dancing around covered in
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: blood is disgusting. I'm thinking about a way to make
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: actual change, to do something. The only thing I can
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: think of is to try to reneg the deal, to.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Void the deal.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: A you can't have that prosecution's office in on it.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: That that's impossible. Even if there aren't good lawyers within
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: the office, it's too late. They're tainted by their leader.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: It'll have to be a fed or a special prosecutor.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: But is there a hope. Is there a way Josh
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: to get the play deal voided?
• 54:17
  Speaker 8: Yes, there is.
• 54:19
  Speaker 7: There's two ways. You just mentioned one which is a
• 54:24
  Speaker 7: federal action, but there's a much more simple way, and
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: that is through victims' rights. Now, in Idaho, the prosecution
• 54:33
  Speaker 7: is required to go over and make sure that the
• 54:38
  Speaker 7: victims understand the plea agreement and that they've conferred with
• 54:42
  Speaker 7: the victims. And here it's very obvious that that process
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: did not happen in full because during the restitution hearing,
• 54:51
  Speaker 7: the prosecution admitted on the record that it was their
• 54:56
  Speaker 7: fault that the proper restitution terms were not in the
• 55:00
  Speaker 7: the agreement. So that tells me that the victims' rights
• 55:03
  Speaker 7: were violated. So the victims on their own, through their attorney,
• 55:07
  Speaker 7: can file a special action with the court demanding that
• 55:12
  Speaker 7: the pre agreement be unraveled and the case be set
• 55:16
  Speaker 7: for trial because of the material misrepresentations by the prosecution
• 55:20
  Speaker 7: and now by the defendant Coburger by not being honest
• 55:24
  Speaker 7: about his finances and not having good faith about paying
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: the restitution that they deserve.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Guys, I don't always like what Col's root has to
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: say because he's typically defending someone, but He's right. There
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: could be a way around this deal with the devil?
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: But now will it happen? I am begging the FEDS
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: to intervene. I am begging a court to investigate this
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: and appoint an independent prosecutor. How can we stand by
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: and hear these families pain and do nothing? The current
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: US Attorney for the Idaho District is Bart M.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: Davis. Repeat, Bart M. Davis.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: The number two zero eight three three four one two
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: one one two zero eight three three four.
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: One two one one.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: You have the knowledge, use it? Is there a way
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: out of this deal with the devil? The local prosecutor
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: struck with Brian Coburger. Can we get Coburger to trial? Now,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: we remember an American hero Border Patrol Agent, Freddie Ortiz,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: US Department Homeland Security, killed in the line of duty
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: after thirteen years serving and protecting. Leaving behind is grieving
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: mother American hero Patrol Agent Freddie is Nancy Grace signing
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: off goodbye friend.