Latest / Aired Out / Vermont Senate candidate Rob LaClair

Transcript

Vermont Senate candidate Rob LaClair · Aired Out

• 1:12
  Speaker 1: All right, top of the morning, and welcome to Monday.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a damp one. It's going to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: be a rainy one. Lily got up this morning, had
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a sweatshirt on that said, nope, going back to bed.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I hope your coffee is hot. It is going to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: be a great week. We have the 20 stores in
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: 20 days tour that is just about to launch tomorrow.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: It's going to launch this week, and I will make
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: sure that you know about it. I've had a few
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: people reach out and say, J.D., you've lost your mind.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: You're visiting 20 different Vermont country stores in 20 consecutive days.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: How are you going to pull it off? My whole
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: thing is more than the schedule. of trying to get
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: all these stores in is more the price of gas,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: which I admittedly didn't really think out all the way.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Sitting right next to me is Rob LeClair. I am
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: so happy that you're here, man. Welcome back. It was
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: a little while ago that you were on with me, right?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: It was a bit. It was you and I and Gabe,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and I thank you for having me back. I appreciate it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Listen, my podcast... generally doesn't hang out on the subject
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: matter of politics a whole hell of a lot, especially
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: local politics. But I have been, based on our conversation
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: when you were in here last, and based on what
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I've been reading about and seeing about on your social media,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, man, this guy is, and I don't, admittedly, Rob,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I don't often say this, I really don't, and some
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: of my best friends know this. But I've been saying,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: this guy, Rob LeClair, is hitting the nail on the head.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I really, and I don't know a whole hell of
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: a lot about you, but I know what I've seen.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I know where you stand. I've heard you speak. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: my man, I think you really are onto something here.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You got this figured out.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I really do appreciate that, my friend,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: because I've always taken the responsibility of representing somebody very,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: very seriously.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: And I'm very clear that it is my primary responsibility
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: to represent those who have either sent me or potentially
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: will send me.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: That's one of the concerns I have is I'm not
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: sure that the average Vermonter is being well represented in Montpelier.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that was one of my questions for
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: you is why are you running? Why the state senate specifically?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, obviously I've had a lot of encouragement for sure. And,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I served for eight years having the privilege
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: and opportunity to represent Barrytown. And then these jobs, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: think that they, these opportunities, I should say, there's a
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: time to know when to run. There's a time to
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: know when to step aside. You can overstay your welcome.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Not that I was approaching that, but I had thought
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: about the Senate, but anyway, I decided not to run again.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Did some other stuff for a few years, and then
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: got looking at things, and again, had a lot of encouragement,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: and I love our state, but we've got some strong
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: headwinds ahead of us, and it's going to need, I think,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a change of direction here. Our state,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: we're kind of trying to, we're struggling to survive. We
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: got to get back to the point where we can thrive.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: And that means that we've got to have people down
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: there that, um, you know, I'm running first as Rob LeClair, secondly,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: as a Vermonter. And then thirdly is somebody who's going
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: to go down there and represent you. I'm not running
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: to represent necessarily specifically a party, a party's agenda. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I think that the majority party, um, There's too many
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: special interest groups down there that have had an undue
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: amount of influence over things.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, my man. I've got to just tell you,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: that is probably a massive understatement of what you just said. No,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I'm saying it like it is. I think that's a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: huge understatement.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Well, there's several examples that I can give, and Act 181,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I would say, is a really good one to point
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: out if it's relevant.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about 181. We just got a
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: question here. May I ask what party?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I am running as a Vermont Republican, but you'll notice
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't put that first. I am running to represent
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: those who sent me. And I think if anybody was
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: to look at my former record, I vote my conscience,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: my constituents, and the issue.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: You don't vote party lines.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: That isn't, you know, I was the assistant minority leader
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: for four years, and one of the first things that
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I would say when I was walking up to a
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: member of the caucus is, listen, nobody's saying you're here
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to represent the Republican Party. You're here to represent your constituents.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: If having a conversation with you, we can help you
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: get to where you need to be on this issue, fabulous.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: But that was never the approach.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: You know, when you came in here this morning, We
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: had a brief conversation about Thunder Road Europe and Thunder Road. Crazy.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Huge crowd, perfect weather.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Great time.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: They've done some amazing changes to the track for safety,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: for lighting, for capacity, making sure everyone's got the best view.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: They've done a great job up there.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: They have.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yes. Quite an investment. Yeah, a huge investment, and I'm
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: sure Squire is very happy looking down. But we also
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: talked about, and we just shared this conversation, that a
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: lot of Vermonters, even though you take something, you put
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: it on a silver platter and present it to them,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: look at how nice this is. Look at how much
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: better this is, look how much safer this is, whatever
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: it is. A lot of Vermonters just don't like change.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: They don't like the new wall. They don't like that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: new wall. Well, I shouldn't say they meaning all of them,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: but there's a lot of Vermonters said that are just like,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: just leave well enough alone. What do you have to
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: say about that mentality? It's an old new England thing.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I get it. It's part of our culture.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And it's ingrained in us.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: You're right. I think like we had said, everybody wants
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: change until it affects them. That can be a little challenging.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give a ding on that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I still think that there is a spirit of independence
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: in Vermont where we can be self-sufficient still and we
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: don't need somebody to come in and tell us what
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: to do And if we make a decision and it
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: doesn't quite turn out the way that we had envisioned,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: we'll deal with the consequences. You know, I'm sure, going
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: back to the wall, I'm sure that there was very
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: sound logic as to why they had put it up there. Yeah.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: But like I said, if I was a driver, it'd
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: be like, boy, there's not much margin of error up here.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: You know, it used to be I could go over
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the bank and sometimes even drive back on or maybe
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: get tugged back on by Blake and Loso's wrecker. Sure.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: But now... I'm going to tangle with a wall and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: probably going to mean a trip to the pit.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, it was, it was nice to hear
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Dave Moody back in town, but man, it's like, you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and Dave's been on with me and we talked about
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Tracy Bellrose and just how lucky she was. And frankly,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: many other people were lucky way back then, but there's
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: new safety measures in place. And anyway, my point is,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: and what we're, what we're getting at here is, A
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: lot of Vermonters just don't necessarily receive lovingly. the concept
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of change.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I, and if they do, it's with great speculation.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, when I was, had the, again, the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: privilege and opportunity to serve Barry town, what I found
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: with people, my friend was that if I could explain
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: to them why I did something, yeah. Or had a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: particular vote, for instance, overall, they were saying, you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not, I would have liked you to vote a
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: little differently, but I respect the fact that you made
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: at least an informed vote.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Had an informed decision. And I go, that's all I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: can ask. Cause, but you're right. Um, we're going to
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: have to be willing to accept some pretty significant change. Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Now I think it's important. Is it the top down
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: type of stuff that we're going to have to contend with,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or can we have more of a bottom up, you know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: whether it be healthcare, education, housing. I mean, we've got
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: some pretty big issues out there and I think it
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: would be a little difficult. One of the things I've
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: asked people is, can you, point to anything that's going
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: so well in our state right now. You want more
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of it. Boom.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: And to a person... What are you getting?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Honestly, to a person, people are saying, no, I can't.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't... One thing.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: One thing.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: They might pick a specific program. You know, for instance,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: like one said, well, I really like the fact that kids,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: every kid can get fed at the school regardless of
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: their own income. It's like, okay, I get it. But honestly...
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: some of the larger issues that I think that there
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: was commonality in that we all agree are challenges. I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: have not had one person say, yeah, it's, it's let's,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: let's continue doing this.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Um, I want to ask, I want to ask born
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and raised here.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: How old are you? 67. If you could go back to, uh,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: if you were right now, Rob, um, Right now, current day,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: if you were in your 20s, maybe 30s, would you
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: consider getting the hell out of here? Current day.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really, really good question. Today, if I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: took today's current, well, you know, part of the reason
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: why I had stepped aside here was I'd had a
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: house in Florida and my wife at the time, was
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: going down there during the winter and I was up
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: here and she really, really liked it down there. And
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I can't say that I didn't either. Um, so that
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: was one of the factors that I had taken into
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: consideration was that Florida tax tax wise. Um, there was
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of things down there that I found very,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: very attractive. I didn't, when I got there, it was
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: more that I had my children here, my grandchildren here,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: my grandmother who raised me was here. And it's like,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: this is not quite what I thought it was going
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: to be. But, You know, I had a house down
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: there of equal value. I bought a house up here
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: in Montpelier. Two houses of equal value. My taxes in
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Montpelier were $ 10, 000 on the house that I have, and
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: it needs a lot of work.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Did you just say your taxes were $ 10, 000?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I did say that.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: In Montpelier?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Just to make sure my headphones are working.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: The same valued house that I had in Florida, they
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: were $ 2, 200 a year, and I got free trash pickup
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: with it, which is... I don't know if that's going
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: to have substantial value during the course of the year.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: So it's just quite a difference. But there's tradeoffs for everything.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Very much so. There's some new numbers here. There's some
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: new stats that have come in about Vermonter's hightail on it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm trying to find it. And I will find it.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It's right here. University of New Hampshire. 60% of young
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Vermonters between the age of 18 and 34 are planning
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: to leave within five years. 86% say the state is unaffordable.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And we can compare that to New Hampshire, which is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: only 21%.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: 60%, Rob.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: And, you know, one of our listeners that's tuned in
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: this morning is a young girl, I'm guessing, in her 20s,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and says, I think our biggest problem is that there
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: are currently people in Montpelier who are either intentionally or
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: unintentionally turning Vermont into something that it isn't. And that,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I think, where a lot of the frustration from Vermonters
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: is currently coming from.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I have to agree with that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. that's where I sit. I don't think that the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: average remodeler is being well represented. There's a lot of
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: moving pieces there, but I would say like Act 181
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: is tied into Act 59, preserving 30% of our land
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: permanently by 2030 and 50 by 2050. That's all working together.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: That exacerbates the housing issue, the costs.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: For listeners that are not living in the weeds of
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: land use law. What is Act 181?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Act 181, when it, I believe, came about, first off,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that's a perfect example where it got teed up outside
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: of the regular session. So you had these special interest groups,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you know, they call it the grand bargain, where anybody
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: who's done much with land use in Vermont, especially development,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Act 250 has always been something you've had to contend with.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And there were parts of it, Act 181 meaning, that
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: made some sense were like downtown Berry, down Mount Montpelier
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: where you've got municipal water and septic, you've got robust
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: zoning and things like that. If you're going to have
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: a development, you shouldn't have to go through Act 250
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: as well. But it morphed into this monstrosity that it
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: is now.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Quickly.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: It did, you're right, very quickly. Under the radar screen,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: got introduced, and then all of a sudden, Now people
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: are finding that they're trying to have Act 250 get
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: into rural areas of Vermont with the Tier 2, Tier 3,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: the 800-foot road rule. I still have major concerns over
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: this Land Use Review Board and the relationship with the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Regional Planning Commissions where they're going through changing all sorts
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: of things. It's all kind of an orchestrated effort where
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: There are folks there that just don't want Vermonters to
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: live in rural Vermont. We all should be moving into
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: downtown Barry, taking public transportation to, I guess, our government-sanctioned jobs.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: That's kind of an extreme example, but.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: No, I hear you. I think that I wrote, or
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that you wrote somewhere, and I read somewhere, that you
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: couldn't bring a worker onto your property. Without some complications.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want accessory dwellings and things like that.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Our permit process is you're kind of guilty of something
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: until you prove yourself innocent. And we need to, I think,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: streamline our permit process. When I was there the first time,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I had proposed, put in, submitted a piece of legislation
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: where if you're, say, if you're dealing with the Agency
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: of Natural Resources, which has purview over lots of permits,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: One of the things that people get very frustrated with
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: is you pursue a project and you think that you've
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: got all the stuff in place that you need to.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden out of left field, something
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: pops up. It's like you need another permit for something.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, I didn't know that. I didn't even
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: know how to ask the question. So one of my
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: things was, is that if you're dealing with, say, the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: agent's natural resources, you should have to have one source
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: of contact. And they tell you every single permit that
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: they have purview over that could apply here so that
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: there aren't any surprises we need to turn this permit
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: process around from that you're guilty of something until you
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: prove yourself isn't it innocent and to that these are
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: the reasons why it can happen versus all the reasons
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: why it can't because we've got a lot of challenges
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: case in point good size housing development going proposed up
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: on prospect street prospect heights there you go My understanding
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: of that is that there is a wetland rule there
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: where you've got to be 50 feet away. If they
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: just change that to 25 feet, you still get it,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: and it's up on a hill. If you change that
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: to just 25 feet, you can build an additional 20%
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: more homes on the same piece. Why can't we do that? Now,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: it's my understanding that one of the who's the chair
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: of the Natural Resources Committee, kept that piece of legislation
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: in committee buried so that it never really got the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: light of day. That's not okay. There are things that
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: we can do to help alleviate this problem starting tomorrow.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: It seems like Prospect Heights, at least from the outside
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: looking in, has been stalled. It's just been, we've been
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: hearing the words Prospect Heights for a long time.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: We have.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, Tom Lozon was telling me about it years ago.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And now we're just all this break checking.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: And now we've got the state of Vermont that's got
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to go in there and do this I don't even
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: know what the price tag is going to be on
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: this study, but we need to study the bat population.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Bat. Yeah. I hadn't heard that, but it won't surprise me.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And it's that sort of stuff. Exactly. You should know
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: that right up front so that, you know, that's the
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: other part of it is there's our permit process. It
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: can be very expensive. And sometimes it's hard to even
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: predict the outcome. Yeah.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What's your line on this? I mean, who decides what?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Who should be deciding on Act 181? I mean, we've
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: talked about rural Vermont rising. Look what they're doing.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: They have been phenomenal.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: But it's all parties, man. They're like, we don't say
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the word party here. We say the word Vermonter.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: They're very clear that they're a nonpartisan group. I have
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: been to most of their county. I think they have...
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I think they're organized in like, oh, 14 counties of
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: the state. Very active, but they're very clear that they're issue-oriented.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: And I can tell you from going to the meetings
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: that there are all political persuasions there. But Act 181
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: was the impetus for them to get organized because you're
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: just not listening. The incumbents, you're just not listening. This
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: is not what Vermont wants. And again, when you have
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: these special interest groups... that have the influence they have,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that's not how this is supposed to work.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Let me put you on the spot here.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Special interest groups, totally agree with you. Too many, too intense.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: What do you think the, and don't hold back here,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: what do you think the inception of a lot of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: these special interest groups is? The origins of it. Bottom
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: line is what I'm asking you.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of flatlanders are coming up
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: here and trying to change shit? Another way to ask
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: the question. Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I think that there's certainly plenty of that. I think
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: that there's a lot of outside interests, you know, whether
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: you want to call the V-PIRG or the Sierra Club
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm not saying that these are bad organizations.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: That is not what I'm saying.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say that they're generally organically grown from
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Vermont and there have a lot of money. You know, again, V-PIRG.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: You know, they've got people out, young people out, canvassing,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: talking to people, drawing up the membership. I have to
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: admire their dedication. And in some cases, like Paul Burns,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: who was the director, I like him personally. I said,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: you know, if I have a major issue with you,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: it's just that I think your organization is a little
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: too effective here under the gold dome. But yeah, I
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: think that there's, you know, you've got the whole renewable
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: energy industry. Again, I'm not saying it's bad, but boy,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: they spend a lot of time and money. Yes, and
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it really does boil down to a lot about the money.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Vermont, well, I guess Montpelier versus the landowner in Act 181.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Who do you think ultimately is going to win?
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Well, if the progress that they've made is any indication,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I'd like to think that the landowner is going to win,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: and You know, they are weighing in. They are having
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: some influence on this. Personally, I think the next step
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: should be repeal all of Act 181 and start this
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: thing over because the land use review boards and the relationship, again,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: with the local, the regional planning commissions, they're going through
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and making some substantial changes to town plans and things
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like that. And it's on a fast track and all
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: of a sudden people say, well, wait a minute here, that, that,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: It's not what we want, that two rivers out of Quechee.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Very, very controversial.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Understatement again, Rob.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You know, listen, our brand, one of our brands here
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in Vermont is our unspoiled landscape. And, you know, on
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the flip side here, I think you're also kind of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: recognizing that the environmental laws are trying to protect that
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: unspoiled landscape. But has it gone too far?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I think, is that the question?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: I would have to agree with you, my friend. I mean,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I think we all want a beautiful state. I know
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: we do. Who doesn't?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Right. Who doesn't? And, you know, do we have to
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: be told how to do this? And again, I go
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: back to, I think we need a little bit more
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: local Control local input. You know, what may be great
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: for Berry maybe isn't what Berrytown wants. You know, what
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: may work in downtown Montpelier is not necessarily going to
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: work in Middlesex. Do we need to sort of work together? Sure,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: we do. But the regional planning commissions, my understanding, that
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: used to be there, they were to support the towns,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and it was kind of a bottom-up. where now it's
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: gotten to be the point where they're sort of putting
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: together the plans and telling the communities, well, this is
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: what your housing plan needs to be, or this is
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: what we're recommending to change the wildlife corridors or things
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: like that. And it's like, that doesn't quite work.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot of people listening and a lot
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of comments coming in. If Montpelier doesn't get you, the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Conservation Law Foundation will.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're definitely one of those that have a significant
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: influence and presence in Montpelier, yes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: You live in Barrytown?
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: No, I live in Montpelier. I lived in Barrytown for
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: 15 or 16 years, but now I'm a Montpelier resident.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: your opinion on the school budget. Let's just all take
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: a deep breath when we say those words, school budget.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Let's say this, Rob, okay? And I'll say it. And
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not– this is my quote, not yours. It's a
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: cluster at the absolute least. I've got to tell you, man,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I've been in the media for a long time, long time. Here,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: just right here in central Vermont for, I don't know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: 25 years? I don't think I've ever seen the level
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: of contention in our community, ever. And there's been some
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: hot years and some hot topics. But, man, it's like
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: people are just, they're pissed, they're at each other's throat,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: and it's more polarized than it's ever been before. We've
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: got friends who are no longer friends, Rob. We got families.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: It's beyond fighting about Trump now. We got families that
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: can't get along because of the whole school budget. People
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: want to know. Everybody, this business owner, that business owner,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Bob Nelson, walk in. Yeah, I'm going to buy something
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: from you. But before I do, where do you stand
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: on the school budget? I mean, wow.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Holy crap, man.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: That is one of the things that is a little disappointing,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: is that we seem to have lost the ability to
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: have a good, robust conversation about something and not have
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: it deteriorate to the point where we're attacking each other personally.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: That's it right there.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I served nine years on a school board, and,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a tough job.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: There's a fine line between being passionate about something, having...
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Having a passionate, well-invested feeling about something and an opinion
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and then crossing the line and getting personal.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Fine line, Rob.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: It is. And, you know, schools are one of those
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: things that I think people obviously have a tremendous amount
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: of passion for a variety of reasons. And it is
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: one of those few things that you can have a direct,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: I guess, influence on through the vote, through the budget.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: where other things that say happen in Montpelier, other than
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: voting for a Senator or state rep, it's a little,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: a little more removed, but you know, Barry has the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Barry area has always had the reputation of being, you know,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: watching their dollars.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: They have, um, more now than ever, man.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure. I think I don't say only school district
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: right now that doesn't have a past budget. If I
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: remember correctly.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: It is the only school district, right?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Um, I will have to say that I'm not sure
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: that the board was listening as closely to the community
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: as maybe they should have. Obviously, I would say that's
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: pretty clear because we're, what, on the fourth vote now? Yes. Right? Yes.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And I was reading something. And plus, now they want
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: to have their own separate vote instead of waiting until
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: November 3rd. It's like at an additional cost. Explain to
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: me why. But yeah, I think we've got some, there's
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: some work there to do. The taxpayer has a right
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: to really be heard. I don't think they've been heard
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: The relationship between what is needed and what we have
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: for resources, bottom line, everything has gone up. People are tapped.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Vermonters are tapped. Everything is expensive. Everything. And they're hanging
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: on to, they can't afford this, they can't afford that,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: they can't afford their own taxes, so why should we
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: be approving the school budget? And, you know, I see
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the comments everywhere. I'm sure you do too. I want
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the kids to have all of their extracurricular activities. I
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: want them to have fall sports and winter sports and whatnot.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: But man, I... I'm having a hard time keeping my
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: lights on right now. I'm not arguing for them. I'm
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: just saying that's what I see a lot of on
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: social media. But I also see the opposite of, man,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: these are our kids. We have to invest in them.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: This is our future. And if we want any of
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: them to stick around and plant some roots in this state,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: We've got to be dialed into them. We've got to
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: give them a great education. We've got to be, first
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and foremost, more than anything, taking care of their mental
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: health and making sure that they've got healthy outlets to
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: do whatever it is that they love to do, whether
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: it's on the field or on the stage with the
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: drama department, whatever it may be.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: You're right, and this is where it really, it's a
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: very complex question. On one hand, I don't know that
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: anybody could necessarily make the case that we're underfunding education
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: in Vermont. I think we have the distinction of being
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: number two or three in the country as far as
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: cost per pupil. On the other hand, I do recognize
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: the fact and have seen it for a while that
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: our schools, public school systems, have got a significant social
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: service agency component to it, as you had alluded to.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: So it's not that simple. But I've talked to a
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: lot of, I talk to people every day, obviously, as
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you can imagine. And I've talked to a lot of
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: people who have said that their property tax bill, if
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: you broke it down monthly, is either equal to or
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: exceeds their mortgage payment now. And they're looking at the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: mortgage payment as that's something that may eventually go away.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: But my property tax bill isn't. And it really is
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: an area of concern for a lot of folks. And
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I think there's a I know there's things that we
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: can do starting at the state level that we've got
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: to take a look at. You know, we do have,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I would make the point that we have infrastructure that
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: is way too big for the number of students that
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: we have. We do have to get back to where
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: there's more of a correlation between the number of students
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: we have in the infrastructure. I've done some research and
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Vermont has, I believe we're, about twice per pupil paying
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: for administration than the national average. I think that we
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: have a significantly lower staff pupil per staff number than
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the rest of the country. You know, this emphasis on
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: school consolidation, um, I don't know that it should be
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the top-down approach we've taken. In fact, most people aren't
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: in favor of that. I think that we need to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: have the conversation about, okay, what can we start at
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the local level? For instance, out in the Valley, they're
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: having conversations right now, organically, out there starting in the
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: community about taking the consolidating schools from, like, Waitsfield, Warren, Fayston,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I think one of Waterbury's, and consolidating them all into
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: one larger building. That, to me, that's how that conversation
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: should happen. Another example is the U32 school district, Washington Central,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: is looking.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Is looking for a superintendent. Yeah. They got about 1,250
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: kids in that school district. Montpelier's got about 1,190. Maybe
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: we should talk about having a formal relationship contract for
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: services with that superintendent. And that is something, when I
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: was on that board, we had, I was on the
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Washington Central Board years ago, we had worked out a
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: lease agreement with Montpelier to cohabitate space. Not merge, just
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: cohabitate the space. And yeah, you might go from two
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: copiers to one. We passed the bond, but then some
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: old history got in there because Montpelier was going to
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: be part of the U32 school district initially. And they
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: went for a revote, it went down. So now you've
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: got two to, but Those are the kind of changes
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: that I think we have to be willing to talk about, make.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And if you consolidate superintendents' offices, it doesn't mean you
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: have to talk about totally merging the school system. You
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: don't have to talk about changing your school names. But
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: those are the kind of costs that we've got to
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: take a look at that are going to make a
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: difference in our property tax bills.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Stand by because I want to ask you, I want
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to talk about health care in a minute. But first,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I just wonder, what's your thought, your opinion on the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: proposal of the $ 54. 9 million bond going to voters on
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: November 3rd for the Central Vermont Career Center? A big,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: big change from last year's plan, which was a hundred
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: and forty nine million dollar bond was for that brand
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: new standalone building in Graniteville, which voters rejected 60 to 40.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? Recognizing, I think that,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the conversation that we've had
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: on the air here is that, man, we need the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: trades now more than ever. There's an uptick in interest.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: There's students over in Randolph who are in a huge
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: waiting line to get into the Central Vermont Career Center and, frankly,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: aging out before they can even get in.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: We're talking about going from 245 students to almost 500, Rob.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: We need the trades, man. Good luck finding a freaking plumber.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, you can. Yeah. And in construction. You can.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: But the house that I just bought was vacant for
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: four years, and it needs a lot of love. And
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I'm very happy when I can get one of the
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: trades folks to walk through the front door. Agree. So
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: you're absolutely right.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: You know, applications have gone from 134 five years ago
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to 443, Rob, this year. Right. They're turning away 100.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: kids annually?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: That's where we have to react to the need, right?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: You know, what comes first, the chicken or the egg?
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And there's clearly the demand out there, so what do
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: we got to do to do that? You know, was
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a $ 150 million facility the right answer? Obviously it wasn't.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: This particular one, I can't say that I know all
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: the nuances around it, but it's very clear that the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: demand is there.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Demand is very much there.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: But One of the things that we do need to do,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: I think, is the education financing system is very complicated.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So it's almost impossible for the average taxpayer to make
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the connection between this is what I'm voting on for
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: a budget, but this is what I'm going to pay
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: in taxes. We've got to do a better job of
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: connecting those dots so people can actually understand and make
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: an informed decision.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Sure. I want to ask you about Washington County jobs
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: seems that nobody can fill them because there's nowhere to live. Housing, affordability, buzzwords, huge.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: If you win, what's the first bill, Rob, that you
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: would actually push to kind of get some traction in
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: that department?
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess it depends on what the bills are
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: that are proposed. But I think that the housing is
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about affordable housing, but the focus has
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: been on subsidized housing.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: There's a difference.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: There's an enormous difference, huge difference. And I would advocate
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: for putting more emphasis on the affordable housing where first-time homebuyers,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: young families can come here and afford to buy a
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: home Amen. Because the subsidized housing one is it's extremely expensive.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I was reading something the other day where they're celebrating
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: a unit that came on line in Burlington. That was,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I think it averaged $ 631, 000 per unit. If you can
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: get one online in today's environment for under $ 500, 000, you're
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: doing a great job. But these subsidized units, um, They're
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: very expensive. They take forever to get online. I think
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: they're like the Prospect Street, what did you call that?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Prospect Heights. Prospect Heights. That's a perfect example where, you know,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: if you took a look and did like, say, Barrytown
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: had the industrial park where we went through, got all
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: the permits in place. So if somebody wanted to come
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: in and develop it, maybe we go through. get the
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: permits in place so developers can get in there, have
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: some predictability, and build the affordable housing. We've got to
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: get Montpere out of the way for some of this stuff.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's more of a problem than part of
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the solution.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going to paraphrase from your social media here. $ 360
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a month with an $ 8, 000 deductible. You say that you've
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: heard that from more Vermonters now.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Talking health care, right? Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Then you can count.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've talked to a lot of people.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: That's insane.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: It is. A lot of people, yeah, I've got health care.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: What's your fix to this? More insurers competing in Vermont
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: or maybe something else?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, this whole health care issue, obviously it's
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: very complex like anything else here, but we started down
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: the path of single-payer health care underneath the Shumlin administration,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and we never really got off of that track. So
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: now we're close.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: To being … Green Mountain Care, right?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. We're close to being single-payer in that
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: we've got, what, maybe three insurance options now? Maybe a
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: fourth one out there. You know, you've got Blue Cross
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Blue Shield, Cigna.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: MVP, I think.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: MVP, right? Yeah. And we're also close to being single provider.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: You've got the UVM Healthcare Network and some other associated hospitals.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Vermont has the distinction of having the highest insurance healthcare
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: premiums in the country. And I had somebody, I was
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: talking with him the other day, and I hadn't verified this,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: but he said, and did you realize that the U.S.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: has the highest healthcare premiums in the world? And I'm saying, okay,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: so does that mean that Vermont has the highest healthcare
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: premiums in the world? So, but if you look next
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: door to New Hampshire, again, their insurance premium, healthcare insurance
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: premiums are about a third of what ours are. And
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: they have somewhere nine to 12 options for insurance providers.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: We've got to open the market back up here. And yes,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: we've got to take a look at some things in
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: our healthcare system.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: When Green Mountain Care collapsed- We've got to learn from this.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: We can't just say, okay, it collapsed. Let's go on
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to the next thing. We need to really learn why.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, Blue Cross Blue Shield is suffering. Yeah, they're
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: practically insolvent. They're upside down.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Have been for a while, and they're not seeing any profits, Rob.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: You know, my wife and I at the time... she was,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: she used to work at CVMC. She got done. So
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: we're on the Cobra plan and we were spending $ 1, 800
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: a month for health insurance for the two of us.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, wow. So I was talking to my insurance
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: agent about the property and said, well, Hey, take a
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: look at this thing. It's called Christian healthcare ministries.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm familiar with it. Right. So a MediShare, I
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: think they call, I think they now call it MediShare.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's cost sharing, but, Yes. Realistically,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: that's what all insurance is. Well, she got on that.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: We talked about it, looked at it. Our premiums went
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: from $ 1, 800 a month to under $ 400. Now, what makes
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: it different, obviously, is that you have to pay cash
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: up front. But they took care of us. It worked
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: for us at the time. Now, there is some things
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: about that that they advocate for you to, when you
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: go have a procedure... talk to your provider and tell
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: them that, you know, you're paying cash and see if
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: you can get a discount. And, and, and you can, um,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the one downside I would say is it seems like
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: there might be a little bit of, you know, cost, um, reallocating,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: but it worked. We need to give people more choices because, um,
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: you know, at the time she, she fell and broke
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: her wrist. They covered everything had to have, you know,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: plates and screws, but Yet there was a bill submitted here,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was this session or this
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: year or the beginning of the biennium, where they wanted
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: to not allow those things to happen.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Vermonters, we need more choices. We need more options. We
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: don't need less. And I don't need somebody from up
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: here telling me how to live my life. Again, I've
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: hopefully made more good choices than bad. but those that
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: didn't quite work out as well, I worked my way
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: through them. And I think most people are willing to
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: The local economy around here, let's go down the road
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: of economics. What say you about this? How do you
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: feel about it? I've got the general gist from what
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I've read on your social media, but do elaborate.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, Vermont is a very expensive state to, one,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: live in, and two, it's a very expensive state to,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: do business in. You have a lot of different things
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that you have to factor in, whether it be licenses
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: and fees. Again, we want, I'd like to see Montpelier
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: to be more of a partner than, you know, somebody
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: that you have to just contend with. I see a
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: lot of help wanted signs out there, but I also see,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: you know, and it's kind of Montpelier in particular, but
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Barry as well has got an enormous homeless problem going on.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: And I know that's affecting some of the downtown merchants.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I know I've talked to a couple of them where
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: they'll have people come in and they'll take stuff and
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: not pay for it. And then you have to put
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: on no trespass orders.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Daily at Walmart, by the way.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so... there is a myriad of things that we,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: we have to contend with. And, you know, I've been
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: a small business owner. I've bought existing businesses, started businesses,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: and it's not easy running a business in this state.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: No payroll tax alone.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to let alone rent or everything else.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: You got a hundred, what was it? A hundred million
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: for the, You know, the payroll tax or the child care.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, when the legislature goes through here
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: a couple years ago, puts in a 20% increase on
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: DMV fees, and DMV didn't even come in asking for that.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: It boils down to, again, I think I've said this
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: before from my perspective, Vermont does not have a revenue problem.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: We have a spending problem. Our state budget has gone
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: up over 40% in the last five years. And what
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: you'll notice is, have you heard them talking about cutting
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: any programs because they can't fund it? What you'll hear is, well,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: we just can't get the percent of increase that we want.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: So we definitely don't have a revenue problem. And we
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: do have the distinction, I said, of being one of,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: if not the highest tax burden in this country.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: During the Washington County Senate candidates forum that you just
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: did at Montpelier high school auditorium. Tell me about that experience.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Tell me about, you know, and I know it's, it's tough. You're,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: you're not, you don't have the time to go down
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: the rabbit holes that you do like on this podcast.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Sure. It's actually great.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: What was, what were you, what were you able to
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: scratch the surface on?
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, that particular one, it was, I think
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: we had like upwards of 15 questions. And so they
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: were pretty far ranging. It was a little challenging at
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: times because you only had a minute to reply to one, say,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: and some of the questions were, okay, what are you
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: going to do about healthcare in Vermont? Well, that's not
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: an easy one to answer in a minute. But, you know,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: hopefully we're able to point out the fact that, you know,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: for instance, one of the incumbents made the point that
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: All the problems, a lot of the problems we're having
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: right now is because what's going on at the federal
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: level and with Iran.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely agree that it's causing some shorter term stuff going
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: on here. Hopefully it's going to be short term. But
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: our education issues, our health care issues, our homeless issues,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: our housing issues, that didn't happen in the last six months.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: That has been because we've had a majority down to
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: the statehouse for 30 years on the Senate side. You know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: one of the things I was able to point out
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: is they were talking about how well we like to
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: work with everybody. It's like, wait a minute here. Do
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: you know how many vetoes that our governor has issued?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Most don't know that. He's issued 68 vetoes. That is
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: not the result of a legislative branch willing to work
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: with the executive branch. And You know, ever since Phil
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: has been in office, he's either had to contend, and
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: when I was there, you had to contend with either
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: a majority or supermajority. And I can tell you from
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: firsthand experience that when there was a supermajority, they didn't
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: consider anybody else's views and opinions on anything. You had
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: to push and use procedures if you could.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: You said at the Stouffre Live, you said too much bureaucracy,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: too many barriers to development, blocking real housing solutions, and
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: too many superintendents draining our education budget. Wow, man. Like
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I said earlier, you're, I don't at least in my book,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: you're hitting the nail on the head. What else have
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: you been involved with lately? You and Mike were over
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: speaking somewhere, too. Was it Brookfield? I can't remember.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: Well, we have a meet and greet. We're going to
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: go with Braintree, have a conversation with those folks. I
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: actually have been out meeting with people um out talking
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: to them because again when you find when you can
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: actually talk to each other there's much more commonality than
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: not about what the issues are bingo sometimes you know
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: there can be a bit of a difference of opinion
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: as to what the the solutions are and you know
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: i've telling people and i mean it that i'm not
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: gonna tell you what i'm going to go do i
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: want you to tell me what you'd like to see
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: done and let's see if we can make that happen
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: because I don't want to pretend to know exactly what
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: your priorities are.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I mean that.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I know you do. I know you mean that. This
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Vermont Senate Republican press conference was a while ago, end
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: of the summer, up on the Statehouse steps. Tell me
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: about that experience.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it was called by the Senate Republican Congress. caucus
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: and they were rolled out. I think it's called the
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Vermont promise. And I think that there's like seven different
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: areas that they're looking to touch upon from affordability to housing.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's all of the higher level stuff that
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I think the majority of Vermonters are concerned with and
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: talking about. And it was actually looking to provide some solutions.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: It's one thing to say, give us the majority of,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: We have an obligation to say, if you do, this
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: is what we're looking to do. Yeah. Without losing sight
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: of the fact that we are there to represent Vermonters,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: first and foremost. But given the opportunity, these are the
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: things that we're looking to focus on as well.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Tax relief, affordable health care and insurance, affordable housing, revitalizing
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: rural Vermont, fully fund roads and bridges. Mm-hmm. Estimate costly
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: energy mandates, safer communities, and accountability.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: You know, I had a back and forth with Senator
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Cummings around. We were talking about the transportation budget. My
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: understanding is the transportation budget started $ 33 million in the
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: red this year, in the hole. In fact, I think
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: they had to lay off some people and stuff. One
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: of the things that they didn't necessarily want to bring
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: up was that $ 50 million, there's $ 150 million generated by
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: the sales and use tax when you register a vehicle. Well,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: $ 50 million of that has been put into the transportation
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: fund for years. And I'm saying, well, wait a minute here.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Why don't we just put that $ 50 million back in
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: the transportation fund? In fact, the governor has proposed that
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: we start taking $ 10 million a year out of the
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: education fund and putting it back in transportation so that,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it's fully funded and And as most people
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: may or may not know, a lot of the transportation
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: fund is used to pull down federal money. So if
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: you have, say, a bridge project that's a $ 10 million project,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: the feds may pay $ 8 to $ 9 million of that,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: but we still have to come up with our $ 1
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: or $ 2 million. So there's those sort of things that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: we need to do. You know, plus you'll recall we
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: would have probably had somewhere in the neighborhood of an
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: 11% or 12% property tax increase this year if they
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: didn't use $ 105 million of the general fund to buy
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: that down. Well, you know, that's money that theoretically were
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: we overtaxed or should it have gone someplace else?
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Affordability. I hear blanket statement here, but I hear basically
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: two things.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I'm jumping ship, taking my family, and we're going to
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: go elsewhere where we believe that the grass may be
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: greener on the other side. Or we hear, or I hear,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: and I've got a couple of listeners that are... I'm
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: just glancing at my comments here. There's one guy right
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: here who you may know who's down in Florida. I'm
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: guessing he's somewhere right up 55, 60, 65, somewhere in
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that ballpark. Lived here his whole life.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: I was one of those.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: You were one of those.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to. Go to Florida.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: A late ship jumper. Mm-hmm. But others, like another one
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: of my listeners that's tuned in right now, who's come
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: to an age now in the 70s where it's just
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: not that easy to sell a house, hire a moving company. Mm-hmm.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Get all your shit packed up. Find a house somewhere else,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: maybe down south where it's warmer, whatever. And take on
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: such an endeavor like that. And in other words, I'm
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: stuck here. I can't afford it. I'm suffering in certain departments.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: but I can't leave. I'm stuck here.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of people that just
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: can't afford. And those that can, unfortunately, do, more than not,
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I would say. And, of course, a lot of the
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: majority parties, I haven't heard one of them make a
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: comment about, well, let's see what we can do to
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: reduce expenses. It's what can we do to generate more revenue?
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: So, like, for instance, at the Stowe Forum, their main
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: focus was on taxing second homes, either at a higher
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: rate or even a new tax on second homes. And
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, wow.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: And that was in Stowe, right?
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: That was in Stowe. So I'm thinking, talk about being
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: a little on the tone-deaf side where.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: In Stowe right now, Rob, the foliage in Stowe is
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: better than anything. Any other area in the entire state
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: of Vermont? I just wanted to make sure you knew that.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: It's beautiful up there. I was through the notch here
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: not too long ago, actually.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I'm joking, buddy. I'm being so sarcastic. But yes, though,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I know what you mean.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, what a few people don't know is, like,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: say if you're a Vermonter and it's going to be
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: your home address, if you buy a home in Vermont,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: the property transfer tax, say on a $ 500, 000 home, is
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: going to be about $ 7, 200 to $ 7, 500. The same $ 500, 000 home,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: if you're somebody that buys it and isn't saying Vermont's
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: your primary resident, is like about $ 1, 802. So they're spending more.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: My concern about this thing is define to me what
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: is considered a second home. You know, is it if
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: you have a camp, you know, a hunting camp someplace,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: or you have a camp on a lake, or I
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: have and have had some apartment buildings and things like that.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of Vermonters that do have other property
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: other than just their primary resident. Are you going to
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: tax me more on that? Again, we don't have a
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: revenue problem right now. We have a spending problem. And
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I would never vote for anything that would increase the
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: cost for anybody living in this state until, until you
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: can convince me, or I can see that the money
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: that we're spending right now is being well spent and
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: having the desired results until I can get to that
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: point and sit here and convince you that, you know,
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: this is what's going on. Um, just not going to
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: do that because I'm very confident that there's other ways
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: to spend the money that we're already being taxed.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I have a, a question here. Um, All Vermont lottery
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: profits go to the education fund. Fiscal year 2025, $ 155
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: million in sales, $ 30 million in profit transferred to education,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: down from a record $ 35. 1 million. $ 30 million in profit
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: transferred to education, down from a record $ 35. 1 million in 2024,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: mostly because there were fewer gigantic jackpots. Fiscal year 2026 projection,
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: $ 32 million. Straight from the lottery commissioner, It's under 2%
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: of the total education funding. The lottery helps, but it's
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket next to property tax and
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: sales tax. Any thoughts on this?
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's a variety of dollars that are
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: flowing into the education fund, not just the property tax.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Like I said, they just put $ 105 million in there
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: this last session. from the general fund. So are we
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: trying to keep a system in place that is too large?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: I think we are. You know, when I was, again,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: when I was on the school board, I think at
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: the time there was like 63 different school superintendencies out there.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: We had certainly more kids, but there was many examples
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: out there in the other parts of the country where
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: you had the entire student population of Vermont underneath one. Yeah. Now,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: I'm certainly not advocating we will go from 63 to 1,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: and I think we're down around 53-ish. Damn. But we've
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: got around 80,000 kids. And, of course, that number can
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: kind of fluctuate because you've got ADM. And then, depending
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: on what you're talking about, it can be this weighted
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: student count as well. We've just got to make this
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: system a bit more simple so people can actually, again,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: figure out this is what I'm spending here.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: This is what it's going to cost me. This foundation
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: formula that they're proposing out there, that seems to make
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: a little sense to me, where you're going to get
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: X amount of dollars per student, and that's it. And,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: you know, where if a community, say like Doty and Worcester,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: you know, there was a vote taken to close that
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: in Calais, and the community weighed in, so no, we
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: don't want to do that. Well, Maybe if you do
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: the foundation formula and you say, okay, Doty, you're going
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: to get $ 15, 000 per student. But if it costs $ 20, 000
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: per student to keep your little school open, if you
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: as a community want to pay in the extra $ 5, 000,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: then you keep your school open.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Right. You have that option.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: You do. It's about choices. And I don't know that Montpelier,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: like I said, has... I would argue that a lot
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: of the decisions that have been made there, I'm not
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: sure are the right ones. Act 181, you know, the
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: whole school consolidation thing, you know, they wanted to push
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: that through. And I recognize the governor was behind that. And, and,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: you know, he was kind of between a rock and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: a hard place because on one hand he was being
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: pushed really hard that property taxes are a real deal.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's really tough for a lot of people, but, um,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: I think we've got to put it where you can
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: have more input locally.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: We have a well-known listener in Florida that says, here
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: in Florida, every county has a school board that has
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: jurisdiction over every school in the county. Would that work
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: in Vermont?
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: You know, that is a terrific question because the governance
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: in Florida is primarily by county. Vermont, we are not there.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: We are much more governed by county. by community, by town,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: whether you look at your fire departments, your police departments, EMS,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: or schools. I definitely would agree that, like, say, supervisory unions, maybe, obviously,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: I think that those need to be larger geographically. I'm
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: not saying they necessarily need to be larger personnel-wise. But, yeah,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: we've got to be willing to take a look and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: make some changes because If you don't get the change,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: if you don't make the change, you're not going to
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: get the savings.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Who do you enjoy? Other than the present company? Rubbing
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: shoulders with in the Republican candidates that you're working with.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. I have to say that the two
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: that I have, I'm running with, you know, with Peter
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Schmeckle and Chris Nadeau. Really great guys. They come from very,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: very different backgrounds. Very different backgrounds. I have to be
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: honest with you. I really enjoy talking with anybody. I've
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: always prided myself in having the ability to do that
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: because I always learn something. And, you know, we're products
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: of our life experiences. And I can truly say that
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: there's been times where I'm talking to somebody and it's like, man,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: I never thought of it that way. Or I never
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: knew that. But yeah, I like talking to everybody. And
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest, there's been those times when I've really
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: enjoyed talking to somebody who I know we certainly look
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: at things quite differently initially.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: What do you think will happen with our governor's race?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: I know, listen, it's anyone's bet now. I mean, we
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: can sit and look into the crystal ball all day.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: But do you have a Do you have a thought?
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Do you have a feeling? Do you have a concern?
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think that anybody should take anything
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: for granted or any voter for granted, but I'm fairly,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: very confident that our current governor, Phil, will win. I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: think the University of New Hampshire poll, they have always
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: been way off the mark, even in prior elections. If
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: I was them, I might reconsider how I go about
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: doing my polling because it seems to me it doesn't
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: have a lot of credibility. I can't say that I'm
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: surprised that Phil might be a little less popular only
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: because this is what, going to be his sixth term?
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: And when you're in that position, you're making decisions every
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: day that somebody's going to be unhappy with. And I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: get it. That's just how that is. And, you know,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: we do have a lot of, Decisions that have to
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: be made, for instance, again, the school consolidation. He's been
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: been pushing on that pretty hard. I get it. A
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: lot of people aren't happy about that. Also understand that
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: as well. So I'm quite confident that he's going to
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: do well. She, like so many people, throws all these
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: ideas out there. But it's like, well, explain to me.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Amanda, you know.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. Sorry. You know, who's going to pay? How much
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: is it going to cost? Tell me, what's it going
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: to look like? Put some meat on these bones. Explain
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: this to me because, you know, you can have these
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: higher level concepts out there, but that isn't always what
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: ends up happening when you start to try to make
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: it come to reality.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Phil Scott at 42% right now. And his Democratic challenger,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Amanda Genewitt, 32%, according to Vermont Public's new poll that
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: surveyed 817 Vermonters between September 10th and September 21st. 20% undecided.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor's race, Molly Gray, 43%. John Rogers, 35%.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a little surprised at that one, quite honestly.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: So was I. I had an 87-year-old Vermonter in here
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: sitting on the couch the other day that said, who
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: were the 817 Vermonters polled?
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: What counties?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: And who did the polling?
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that's always the methodology
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: is to.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Vermont Public reported it, but who did the polling? Right.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: The one with Molly Gray, because one of the– a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: couple of the overwhelming questions that I've heard pertaining to
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: her as well, one, what did she do the first time?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: And secondly, there was some people that were fairly unhappy
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: with her that they felt she just used that office
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: as a stepping stone to run for Congress. And what
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: are you bringing to the table now where John– Certainly
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: he comes with a lot of different views. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: On things.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Old school for moderate.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: He is. And he really, you know, he is. Yes.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: He's running as a very moderate Republican. I would say
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: more of a conservative Democrat. And I think that's where
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: more people are.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: On the issues.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: Do you get a chance to see that episode with
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: John right here? Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I did, honestly.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: I'll make sure you got it. Listen, man, we talked
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: about a lot this morning. Frankly, we could talk for hours, man.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: As long as it was a pot of coffee. There's
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: a lot to uncover here, man. There's a lot of
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: stuff going on. You said you've met with a lot
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: of people face-to-face.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Listen, when someone comes knocking on your door, regardless of there.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: party affiliation, regardless of what the sticker says on their lapel,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: have a conversation with them.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I had a neighbor the other day stop
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: up to the house and... said, Rob, I know you're
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: running for office. I go, I am, and I have
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: made a conscious choice not to have any campaign material
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: in my neighborhood. I just feel that it's appropriate, and
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: I know he's much more, I would say, liberal. And
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: the first question he asked me, he says, are you
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: a mega-Republican? And I said, no, I'm not. I don't
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: know what that is, but no, I've never identified that way.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: And the first Rob LeClair. Secondly, I'm a Vermonter. And thirdly,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: my focus is going to be representing you. And he said, well,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: you got my vote because he said, I just, we
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: have to have change. And if we send the same
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: people back all over again, we're going to probably get
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: more of the same. And I said, you're right.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: You are.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: But we were able to talk to each other.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: And I went to a neighborhood gathering the next day.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: What's the next thing on the horizon for you, for
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: public speaking?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to actually be, I think, at
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: the 17th. Well, there'll be a little gathering.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the 17th.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Yep. I think this weekend there'll be a little gathering,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: or hopefully a larger gathering, to honor Topper McFaughan for
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: his years of service up at the Canadian Club. There'll
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: be an opportunity there. Geez, I'd have to pull out
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: my day planner. Yeah. And see, I do do the
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: old fashioned thing where I write it down in a
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: day planner.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Same here.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Things are kind of popping up. I mean, just like,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: you know, this opportunity to come in and spend some
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: quality time with you was just a few days out.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: So I'm availing myself of any opportunity that I can
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: when people reach out. It's always great to interact. And
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: I prefer the in-person. Yep.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I love that about you. The fact that you're willing
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: to come in here and have such an off-the-cuff, unscripted conversation.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Real. Thank you.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that, man. Folks listening, whether they agree with
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: you or not, they have to respect the fact that
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: that's who you are. You're able to have that real conversation.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I always try to make a point
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: of the fact that hopefully you can hear what I'm
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: saying versus how I'm saying it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Great stuff, man. Um, good luck with everything. Uh, November
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: 3rd is coming up soon. It is pretty much tomorrow. Um,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of Vermonters were, uh, I'll, I'll just say it. Um,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Discouraged with the primaries, with the results of that. Concerned
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: and discouraged and frustrated, angry.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: There's a few things that will concern me, and that's
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: if we have– there's a lot of people who feel
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: the way that we feel, but they're also discouraged. And
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: it's like they say my vote doesn't count. I'm saying
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: your vote does count. It absolutely does count. Just take
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: the time and effort to participate in democracy. Because, rest assured,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: there's others, if they look at things differently than you do,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: they will vote.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Great point. Thanks, Rob.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Very much.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the opportunity.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you coming in here. Listen, I don't need to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: remind you, it is Monday. It looks like I'm seeing
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: blue sky and sunshine, which is real nice here on
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: North Main Street. Monday. Okay. Get yourself out to the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Paramount Twin Theater right here in the Granite City. $ 5 Mondays.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Go to a movie. Take a date. Take your wife.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Take your kids. Get some popcorn. Grab a drink. Kick
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: back and enjoy a movie. There's some great, great movies playing.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: We've got all the listings, but they're on FGBTheaters.com, and
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: they're all over the Aired Out page as well. The
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: other thing I was going to mention, big shout out.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: to Optical Expressions right here in Barry. I love them.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I'm always wearing my Optical Expressions glasses, except I wasn't
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: wearing them this morning, which you probably saw me squint
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit, Rob. But Optical Expressions, fourth floor of
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: the Blanchard Block right here in Barry. Get yourself over there,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: get an eye exam, and let the pros help you
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: see better don't take your eyesight for granted optical expressions
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: right here in barry have a fantastic rest of your
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: day it's going to be a wild week tomorrow more
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: details on the 20 stores in 20 days tour that
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: i'm going to be embarking on any day now right
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: here on the aired out podcast