Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 1/26/26: Trump Admin Lies On MN, Second Amendment Destroyed, Glenn Greenwald Sounds Off On ICE

Transcript

1/26/26: Trump Admin Lies On MN, Second Amendment Destroyed, Glenn Greenwald Sounds Off On ICE · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
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  Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: amazing show for everybody today. It's going to be Ryan
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and I. We are unfortunately detained at home, Ryan because
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: both of us are buried under several inches of snow.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: But Virtual Pound people do live for the Pound, and
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: it's even these horrific times we do need to find
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: some levity and so Ryan and I, unfortunately the vast
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: majority of this show is going to have to be
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: dedicated to this horrific shooting out of Minnesota. I'm sure
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: many of you saw it by the way, shout out
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to you, Ryan Dropside News for reporting that new angle
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: of the video that you brought to all of our viewers,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: which makes it unambiguous the killing of this man, Alex Peretti,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: completely unjustly. And that's what we're going to be spending
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of our time on. So Ryan and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I are first going to go over everything that we know,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: not only about the shooting, the administration, the lies that
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: they've told about brandishing a weapon, many of the things
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: that have fallen apart in the subsequent comments from the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: CBP director, from multiple administration officials. There were then going
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to be joined by Janine Yunis. He's the civil liberties
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: lawyer who we had on previously to break down the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Renee Good shooting. This time Janine is going to join
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: us and talk about how the Trump administration is now
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: unronically arguing that if you bring a gun to a protest,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: which is the right of all of us as Americans
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: specifically also state law, you know in Minnesota, that you
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: are liable apparently to be killed. Right, and this is
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: from our FBI director and from multiple other senior administration officials.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. And Janine will help break some of that downforce.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: We're also going to ask her about that administrative warrant story.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Crystal briefly was able to touch on it on Thursday,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: but we're going to break it down fully with Janine again,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: she's very well versed on the case law. We are
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: then going to be joined by Glenn Greenwald, great friend
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: of the show. Glenn is going to talk about this
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: new tactic ICE videos coming out of them saying that
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: there is a database being kept on protesters and on Americans.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So Glenn's going to break down the diminishing state, not
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: only just the civil liberties, but the creation of the
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: effective surveillance state. And then Ryan, you're going to help
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: us break down a government shutdown that appears to be looming.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: This killing appears to have precipitated almost a certain government shutdown.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It is a landmark moment, I think for the Democratic Party,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: for Tuck Schumer. The more interesting things that are happening
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: are really not with the progressive left. We've been calling
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: for stuff like this, but to see Senator Cortez Masso, Centater, Truck,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Schumer and others as talk of impeaching Kircy Nome and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: things are really starting to heat up here in Washington.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: This is a major, major political scandal. Finally, we're going
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to talk about backlash whenever it comes to this story.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Just various you know, different Trump era supporters and others
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: who are speaking out again after the shooting, not just
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the shooting itself, which I think we're again we want
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to spend a decent amount of time on, but the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: administration's response. That's the most important part of this entire thing.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And then the very last story, which is not relevant
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to the shooting, is going to be about China.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: We have to cover this.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It is by far one of the most consequential pieces
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: of news outside of this, you know from here in
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the United States. The top general, basically the equivalent I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: guess of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Now effectively like the vice president.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, combined with the vice president, I mean,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: an enormously consequential figure in China has been accused of
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: selling nuclear secrets to the United States. There are potential
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: rumors of a coup, There are all kinds of questions
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: that are being thrown around here. I mean, this is
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: unbeliev important. Sishingping the biggest purge of the Chinese military,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: you know, basically from the history of the CCP. It's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: it's absolutely crazy some of the accusations that are going
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: around before we get started. Thank you to everybody who
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: has been supporting us and Ryan, I want to give
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: you a special shout out, and you know for that
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: video that you were able to break to our audience,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and I just want to say thank you to everyone
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: who supports our show and Ryan's show, just so people
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: know that video was completely demonetized and it just gives
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you a demonstration of you know, and I'm really not
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: trying to make this about us, but this is where
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: independent journalism itself is so important and why we rely
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: so heavily on our subscribers and drop site does as well.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: So Breakingpoints dot com please, because I can guarantee you
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: that this entire show is probably going to be demonetized
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: as a result, because we have to talk about the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: news and horrific stuff and it literally is a business
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: question and our ability to survive.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: So thank you everybody who has been Supportactional, just just
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: to be extra clear of what that means. The peop
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Even though you can get this show for free, and
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: even though you can get drop Side news reporting for free,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: because we don't keep it behind a paywall, the people
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: who voluntarily pay for it mean that we make our
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: decisions based on what is relevant, like what people need
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: to hear, not based on the AD revenue that we're
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: going to get, because we know that if we cover
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: things like that, we're not going to make AD revenue.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: But we don't care because we're allowed to do the
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: news because you guys pay us like every month or
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: every year, depending on how you put it together. So
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: that's what makes it possible and put Getting that video
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: out changed the understanding of what happened, because up until
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: then you only had the footage once the melee started,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: and you had Steven Miller out there saying that he
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: approached them trying to do a massacre, and you had
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: DHS saying he was trying to do a masacer. Then
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: you get this footage from the other perspective the drop
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: Side posted and it's like, oh no, he was helping
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: a woman off the ice. Where let's talk about it
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: now that we all have the facts, now let's talk about.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: That is one of the most important videos ever ever
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: published in a situation like this, and again the timeliness
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: your ability to bring it to our audience to drop
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: side it changed absolutely everything. So again I do want
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: to thank you specifically appreciating the entire team that you
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: have over there. All right, guys, let's go ahead and
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: get started. Okay, so we've tied some of this up.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I do at this point, I'm assuming the vast majority
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: of Americans have seen this video. According to some more
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: recent polling, I do think that the single most relevant part, Mac,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: if we can go and queue this up, if we're
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: going to slow down the video. What you're all watching
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: here is a slow mo effectively of the disarming of
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Alex Peretti as he is on the ground. All right,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: so let's go and blow that up so people can watch.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: What you're all seeing here is that while there are
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: about seven ICE agents or bar Border Patrol agents that
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: are on top of Alex, is that you can watch
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: one of these agents actually reach into his waistband. It's
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: unclear if there's a holster there or not remove the weapon.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And then immediately.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Afterwards there are shots fired.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: And in fact, one of the more shocking elements is
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: not just a video, Ryan that you reported guys, let's
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: go and play the next one as well as you
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: can hear these agents frantically shouting where's the gun? And
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: this is very relevant, So I'm gonna be quiet so
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: that you can all hear the audio here, specifically Maclis's
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: roll it all right, let's come out of that so
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: you gas can also hear clearly these agents are shouting
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: where's the gun. They had no idea where the gun is.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: There are multiple theories ryan as to how something like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: this could happen. The predominant theory from some gun enthusiasts
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: is that it's a potential accidental or negligent discharge from
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the weapon after the disarmy. But what it does prove
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: conclusively is that the weapon was not on his person
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: at the time that he was killed. And I think
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: most importantly as well, is that it was removed from him.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: His hands were clear, there was an iPhone in one
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: hand and the other hand was free. There is absolutely,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: unambiguously no question that this, in law enforcement parlance, is
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: bad shoot, and I think for us, I think the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: most important element of this is that it is literally
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: not disputable that he was armed at the time that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: he was killed. There is a term for that. I
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: think that we all know, and you know, in a
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: normal system, at the very armed sorry an unarmed man
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: is killed. In a normal system, you know, you would
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: see something very different. And I do think that's why,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: you know, at this point, even just analyzing the shooting
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: that's been the last forty eight hours that many people
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: have spent some time on Ryan, you know, with the disarming,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: et cetera. That is again it's not even disputed at
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: this point by the government. What is most relevant, what
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: is most relevant to our discussion today, is not the
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: fact that he was disarmed and that he was killed,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: but is the immediate response from this, which have massive
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: implications for our rights as American citizens. And so we
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: do want to put this tear sheet up here. Guys,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: can we just if we can of Alex pretty Alex
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: he was. His parents put out a statement the quote
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: his life was just starting. One of his mentors said,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: he was a nurse at a nurse at a VA facility,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and he was participating in these protests, which is his
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: right as an American citizen. More importantly, he was exercising
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: his Second Amendment right he was licensed to not only
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to be able to own a gun. You don't need
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: a license or gun, but to conceal carry his weapon
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: on his person again, which is his right under Minnesota
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: state law, and a right that many of us have
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: depending on the state that we live in. And immediately afterwards,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Ryan the Border Patrol Chief took to the airwaves to
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: that he wanted to quote inflict maximum damage and brand
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: him as a domestic terrorist. So guys, let's go ahead
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and queue up this video just so you can all
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: see the immediate response. There are multiple claims here which
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: are very important, which end up falling apart later. This
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: was again in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Let's
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: take a listen.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: Also had two loaded magazines and no accessible ID. This
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: maximum damage in massacre law enforcement.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Massacre law enforcement. The Border Patrol chief is claiming that
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: if us as Americans carry a weapon again, as is
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: our right, that we have two magazines. I mean, these
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: people are gun control liberals at this point in time.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: They're like every semi automatic dangerous weapon with the high
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: capacity magazine. This is how you know the most liberal
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: gun control activists will speak in the wake of yuvalde
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: or something else, except in this case it is again
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: from somebody who did not fire his weapon, did not
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: brandish his weapon. That's another important thing, because we're gonna
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: come back to brandish, and I apologize for monopolizing this
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: so far, but I am so absolutely furious about this situation.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Brandish is a specific term. It's actually a crime to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: brandish a weapon at law enforce That in no way
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is what was happening here. And the way that the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: administration immediately came out afterwards to accuse of brandishment, of
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: massacre of domestic terrorism is it is not just about
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the facts. It is about the fact that this is
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: by far, by far the most I have ever seen
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: our Second Amendment rights, even our Firstement rights at this point,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: because the two are deeplying trampled on by the United
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: States government.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, and Ryan, yeah, And we also have the
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: right or we for a long time have believed that
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: we have the right to feel like we have a
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: responsive self government. And I want to go back to
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: the point you made about the potential negligent or accident
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: accidental discharge. I've seen arguments for that, I've seen arguments
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: against it. Either way, it's does not justify this.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, right, but.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: It's an important detail to find out. Previously, we would
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: trust the FBI to obtain that gun and to do
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: a forensic analysis of it, do a forensic analysis of
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: the agent in Gray's glove to see if there's any
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: residue on it, and then actually just tell the public, yes,
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: there was an accidental discharge. No, there was not an
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: accidental discharge, And from left to center to right, people
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: would be like, Okay, that FBI's forensic lab is serious,
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Like this is what they tell us. This is now
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: what we understand to be the case about whether or
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: not there was that accident. I'll just discharge still completely unjustified.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: Even if that happened, it's still unjustified. Homicide is still
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: still a bad shoot. But we're in a place where
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: I don't think anybody even remotely expects that the FBI
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: or DHS are going to even do that, are going
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: to ask that agent for his glove, are going to
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: check I hope I'm wrong.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Gott residue.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: But when you have the FBI director going on air
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: basically clearing him for what he did, you have Bovino
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: going on saying that the victim was actually trying to
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: massacre officers. You have No then going on and word
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: for word saying what Bovino said, and you have officials
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: from the administration going on cable news saying the exact
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: same thing. And you have Stephen Miller going after every
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: Democrat or reporter who reports on it, saying a man approached,
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: you know, officers with a nine millimeter trying to massacre them.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: And this is your response to a shame on you, Like,
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: that's not an administration that anybody trusts to do an investigation,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: even even just to find you know, minor details about it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: But yes, you're like, and so that is a that
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: is a breaking of the social contract. Last night you
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: started as you had half a dozen or a dozen
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: people outside the hotel where they thought that Ice was staying,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: smashing up cars and smashing the window. Which if there's
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: no if there's no sense that they're ever going to
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: hold anybody accountable for this, a lot of the public
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: is going to step back and be like, well, I don't,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: I don't support doesn't not going to participate in it.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: But I get it, right, I mean, that's the thing.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Ron I have spoken at length about liberal protests, norms,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and liberal activism, and I, you know, incensed about that church,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: you know, the storming and all of that. And and
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I think that all, I mean, I maintained all of that.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And one of the criticisms of that is, no, we
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: don't violate the social contract is that we deserve or
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: But an important part of that is that the the authority,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and in this case the ultimate authority, the supreme authority,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the United States government, the federal government of the United States,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: in the way that they have conducted themselves after this.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: It it that also leads to an insane amount of chaos.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: And that is why, right, I mean, I barely even
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: have words for how angry I am about this situation.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Can we put you know, mister Bevino, by the way,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: you know, backtracking completely from his original claims, Mac, let's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: go ahead and load some of that up here.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Let's let's just take a listen.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: All those facts, things like how many shots were fired,
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: where were the weapons located? All those facts are going
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: to come out in the investigation. I wasn't there resting
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: that assaulted subject, that was assaulting border patrol agents. I
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: wasn't there wrestling him myself. So I'm not going to speculate.
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: I'm going to.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: Wait for that investigation to coach, don't interrupt me.
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: I'm going to wait till that investigation comes out until
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: I make a decision there. During this operation, an individual
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: approached US Border Patrol agents with a nine millimeter semi
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: automatic handgun. The agents attempted to disarm the individual, but
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: he violently resisted.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That's bullshit. He didn't approach them with the gun. He
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: had it hulstered, and as the video that you showed
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: very clearly showed, he was.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Look.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's not sugarcoat it either. Yeah, he was
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: there to protest. Okay, that's what apparently. Yes, he was
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: there to protest. Okay, that's his right. He's an American citizen.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And at some point somebody gets spray sprayed, pepper sprayed.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: He was trying to step in. He did resist. Okay, fine,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you can resist to wrest. It shouldn't in my opinion,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: but okay, fine, it's not a death sentence. It's only
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a death sentence if you pull out a gun and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: shoot you point it at an offer. That is not
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: what happened, period, end of story, and the DHS Secretary
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Kircynome again specifically in the moments after the shooting, accused
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: him of brandishing a weapon. Guys, let's go ahead and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: play that please. That is our next one. These are
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: all very important for the public record to show the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: immediate way that their were claimants. Also, Yeah, doing this
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a disastrous snowstorm, where you know, Ryan,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you and I are all again you know when you're
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: talking about the government, we're all looking for like decent information.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: You know what do we do exactly way of like
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: life threatening conditions on our roads. And this is the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: idiot that we have in charge. Let's go and take
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: a listen.
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: Tend to do bodily harm and other convictions as well.
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: This individual went and impeded their law enforcement operations, attacked
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: those officers, had a weapon on him and multiple dozens
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: of rounds of ammunition, wishing to inflict harm on these officers,
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: coming brandishing like that and impeding their work that they we're.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Doing again, brandish is a term that means something very
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: specific whenever it comes to law enforcement. In no way,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: in no way does that rise to this at all.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: You know, to your point here about evidence. Let's put
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the tear sheet please, the Axios tear sheet number fourteen
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: here on our rundown about evidence. There is now something
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that's been moving through the court system. A judge has
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: quote block Feds from destroying evidence. In the Minnesota shooting,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of confusion immediately after the shooting.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So according to the Minneapolis PD, they immediately tried to
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: secure the scene that they said that they were blocked
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: by the FEDS. The FEDS actually retreated very quickly after
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: this because of the growing number of protests. Minnesota PD
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: also actually apparently was not able to secure the scenes
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: because there's an insane at a protester. So again, look,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I will I'm not even going to talk about liberal
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: protester today. It's not even appropriate because at this point,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: go ahead, and on.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: The point on resisting arrest, a law enforcement source sent
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: me a piece of a training guy that has this
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: pyramid that shows like the level of compliance that a
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: suspect is engaging in or non compliance versus then the
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: corresponding level of force that your training requires, and what
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: the officer said that clearly what he would be categorized
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: as is what they call passive resistance. Now, first of all,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: there's no evidence that they're actually even arresting him if
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: you notice it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Quickly and again you know, even for what purpose, Like
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: what's they spram He puts his hands up and then
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: he grabs him like by the back of the jacket.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: He's trying to help the woman up. They throw them
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: down on the ground. Certainly there's a fight, there's no like, hey,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: you're under arrest, like freeze, like at.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Least I couldn't hear it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we'll end up hearing it. But and then
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: they start hitting them in the flashlight and you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: punching like and then it becomes a fight and they
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: and it's termed passive resistance because he's not attacking them
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: at all, Like he's not hitting them what he's And
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: I think it's just a human reaction. Like if you
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: imagine you've just been sprayed in the face multiple times,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: you can't see you you know, it's icy, you're and
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: that's key too, you're ice, it's icy, you're slipping around
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: on the ground, you're being hit with like a mag
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: light in your in your head, in your face, so
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: you're trying to get your like hands and elbows front
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: your head to protect yourself. It's just a natural impulse.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: It's going to look like you're wiggling and resisting. So
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: that's why they have the term passive resistance. The response
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: to that is supposed to be a de escalation and
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: and you know, just an attempt to get the situation
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: under control. There is no world in which passive resistance,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: which is the just above compliant on the pyramid, goes
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: all the way up to deadly force. And I see
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: a diminishing number of people defending the actions of this
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: agent or agents who killed him, but there's still some
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: out there, and so I guess that's that's for. That's
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: for those people were.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: The only defense is they heard a gunshot, freaked out
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and fired. Sorry, that actually isn't really how it works.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: Maybe if you look at that video, appears to see
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: his colleague pull the gun, which means the person from them.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about it. Again, I
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: mean you could maybe you could argue that in court
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: considering how cop laws. I mean, I talked about this
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: after Renee. Good people should not forget like there's an
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: extraordinary difference at least, And that's actually why the shooting
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: itself is I don't know. You tell me what you
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: think the circumstances of the shooting, while they are a disaster,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: while they show incompetence at the very least, while they
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: show an obvious like immediate escalation on the part of Ice,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I don't even think that that is the biggest story
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: that's come from that. What has come is the government's
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: response is the line is the brandishing is accusing him
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: of being a threat for for the mere purpose of
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: having a gun, of having a gun alone is apparently
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the crime in which merited his death, and then from
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: that point forward jumping and setting some sort of standard
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: here around how we are not allowed to exercise again
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: a fundamental right as Americans to be able to bear arms.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And I do think you go ahead.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: When Chicago, I think it was CBP in Chicago when
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: they killed Mira mar not killed. They shot Mira mar
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Martinez five times. She survived those shots. They initially said
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: it was a ramming attack, and ten vehicles surrounded a
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: CBP officer, putting him in fear of his life. We
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: reported last week that now they obtained surveillance footage of
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: a nearby business complete and total lie. It's gotten so
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: bad that the Free Press, Barry Weiss's news organization, ran
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: a column called the Lies of Christino, Like that's like,
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: that's how bad it's gotten it. It's people keep using
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: that nineteen eighty four quote. You know, the last thing
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: the party asked you to do was to disbelieve what
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: you were seeing with your own eyes. And the gap
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: between the videos of what we're seeing in these incidents,
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: combined with the over the top rhetoric, like even with
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: Renee Good, the initial DHS statements where this was a
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: domestic terrorist who tried to do a ramming of our agents.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: You can now people can debate whether or not his
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: body was in the front or on the side of
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: the vehicle as she started to accelerate. Nobody who watched
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: that without with fresh eyes would be like, oh, yeah,
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: that's a domestic terrorist doing a ramming attack. Like nobody
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: would say that, nobody, but that was the description. And
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: so that gap is opening up this extraordinary credibility gap,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: which then, like you said, they're trying to fill with
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: justifications like oh well, if you show up armed to
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: a protest, if you touch a federal official, you're going
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: to be killed, and you should understand that FAFO be
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: like whoa hold on.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: A second here, f a FO is very different. Okay,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: f a FO is I pull a gun out in
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the middle of an arrest, and then you get.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Get this AFO within your second Amendment in first Amendment? Right,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: So that's not f a.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Well, you know everyone's was apparently now a Kyle Rittenhouse
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: is a criminal by the way, under this standard, which
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: by the way, that was the textbook definition of FAFO.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: He has a gun. Sure, you know, I'm in the
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: liberal line at the time was he shouldn't have even
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: been there. It's like, well, people try to chase him,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: literally try to kill him, and he fired, and you
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: shot in self defense and he was acquitted at trial,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I think correctly as a result of it. That's FAFO.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: This is in no way rises to that standard.
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: F a FO is FU.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: If fucking around is bringing a gun to a protest,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: we're fucked, actually, you know, as a country. Uh, And
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I can't believe it, especially after watching so
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: many of these protests over the years. Where again I
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: have no problem with people bringing a gun to a
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: protest as long as they are doing so illegally peacefully
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and are exercising their right which they always should be
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: able to. You know, I have argued here for too
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: long against red flag laws and against second Ammic gun
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: protections and all this just to watch apparently a fucking
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Republican administration come in here and say that this guy
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: deserved to die for doing absolutely nothing wrong whenever it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: came to his gun rights. Now, whenever, you know, we
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: continue to talk about this, I think it's very important
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to diminish his death in any way.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that his death is an enormously consequential story,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: because it obviously is. It's not just about the bad shoot.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: It is the lies. It's the saying he brandished his weapon.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: They called him a domestic terrorist. Stephen Miller specifically said
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that they said he brandished them. They didn't. And now
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the line is literally that because he brought a gun there,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that he intended to massacre people because he had too magazine.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Any gun owner out there you know exactly how ridiculous
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the idea of having a gun with two magazine, which
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: is very common for people who can steal carry, is
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: in any way some sort of intent there is no
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: intent ascribed to that behavior whatsoever under any reasonable standard
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: for anybody of the tens of millions of us who
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: are gun owners here in the United States. And then finally,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: really what it comes down to is that because they
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: have no defense, is that they are also not handling
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: this in not just appropriate in any standard way, like
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you're saying about some sort of investigation. I mean, I
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: think it's insane that a judge even have to be like, oh,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: don't destroy evidence. But the fact of the matter is
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: we have to be honest here. The DHS immediately came
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: out and said, we're going to investigate ourselves. Okay, their
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: FBI said that they weren't going to investigate the case.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: You need to look at Kirsty Nome and Bevin and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: be like, are these credible people who in any way
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: could you know, could conduct an investigation? And you're talking
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: there about the social contract. While it's obvious that many
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: police departments investigate officer involved shootings, you.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Know what they usually do.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: They take those agents or the police officer sho's put
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: on leave.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: It's just for psychological reasons alone.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: For psychological reasons and for an investor, even in the
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: clearest cut, like body cam, gun out you you still
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: do it because it's treated again, it's always treated as
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: if it might be murder. You investigate, you clear the officer,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the CBP commissioner, so sorry, the Border Patrol chief Bavino.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: He says, these agents have been have left Minneapolis for
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: their own safety, but they are still on the job
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: and they're actively working as of today, every single one
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: of them actively in working today. Again, like you just said,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: gunshot residue for the guy who took the r is
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: that gonna happen? What's gonna happen for the people who
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger? I mean, you know, at the very least, like, dude,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: you need to lawyer up from your union. You need
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to sit down and potentially a hostile interview and be like,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: what were you thinking in the moment? Video shows this?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Could you see it? Line of sight says that you could.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, none of that, to our knowledge has happened
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: at all. They're claiming that they're going to have an investigation. Bullshit,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: haven't seen any of that. The only reason there might be,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a little bit, is that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: even congressional Republicans now are like WHOA, We're going to
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: need a transparent investigation. And then finally, I think we
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: need to zoom out here again. As I've said, I
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: have spoken at length about liberal protest norms, and you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: would I be out there, you know, blowing whistles and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: all that. No, absolutely not. But but and and that's
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: why at this point, this is where the Trump people
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: have lost, is that when you are going to get
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: to a point where you, as an American are being
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: labeled as a domestic terrorists by your government for bringing
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: a gun, and then you're going to try and say
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: that if you bring a gun to any protest whatsoever,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: that you were liable to be killed. No, no, no, no, no.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: This is very different. And this is also fundamentally different,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I would say from the Renee Good case, because and Ryan,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I think you can even admit this. There was a question,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: especially in the immediate not about ramming, about whether like
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: there you could see a reasonable doubt situation.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: There was there was a live debate, and I think
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: it's yeah, there's a lot of debate.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And the point that I would always make what I
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: made in the immediate aftermath is I was like, guys,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you need to look at the caselaw on this, there's
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a like reasonable doubt is a very like is a
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: standard there that usually sides on the piece of offices.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I don't even think you handle it well, like to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: be very very clear, I'm saying, though, if you could see,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: you know, you could maybe and there's a potential video
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: of being that's not even remotely you know, in the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: in the realm of this, because at that point we're
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: arguing about behavior, but there's a potential legal you know
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: tree here about like awful but lawful type situation potentially
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: could have been one of those.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Here's a question. Yeah.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: We'll speak to Janine Yunis later, the civil liberties attorney,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: and she has said that she even sees a difference,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: a distinction between these two. She felt like the Renee
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Good killing that she could get a conviction, but she
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: said this one is even clearer, as she put it.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and again, I mean it's not even
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: just about it being clear for the actions of the video.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It is the response now from the United States government,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I mean immediately putting out and maybe this is worth
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the TikTok for those of you who are
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: not just like following the news all the time. In
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath of the shooting, they just decided to
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: tweet out a picture of a gun on a car
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: seat as if it proves anything, As if it proves anything,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: So what if he had gone So.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: What did he pull out out?
• 30:15
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: In Minneapolis, Police Chief Brian O'Hare kind of responded to
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: this federal argument that, well, we had to kill him
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: because he had a weapon with his own response, Mac,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: can we put up I think it's the fifteenth doll
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: B fifteen here?
• 30:29
  Speaker 9: Do you know that pretty was assaulting the federal officers?
• 30:32
  Speaker 9: As the Border patrol chief claims, Well, I've.
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: Seen the videos, just as thousands of people around the
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: country have, and the videos speak for themselves. I think
• 30:44
  Speaker 6: it's deeply concerning the things that are being said. This
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: is an individual that was a city resident. It appears
• 30:53
  Speaker 6: that he was present exercising his First Amendment rights to
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: record law enforcement activity and also exercising his Second Amendment
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: rights to lawfully be armed in a public space in
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: the city. So I think very obviously there are serious
• 31:10
  Speaker 6: questions that are being raised, and I think the greater
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: issue is, even if there is an investigation that ultimately
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: proves that at the time of the shooting it was
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: legally justified. I don't think that even matters at this point,
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: because they're just there is so much outrage and concern
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: around what is happening in the city.
• 31:29
  Speaker 9: What do you mean it doesn't matter at this point?
• 31:32
  Speaker 10: You mean the.
• 31:33
  Speaker 9: Situation on the ground is already the impression is left.
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: People have had enough. This is the third shooting now
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: in less than three weeks. The Minneapolis Police Department went
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: the entire year last year recovering about nine hundred guns
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders,
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: and we didn't shoot anyone. And now this is the
• 31:56
  Speaker 6: second American citizen that's been killed shooting within three weeks.
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: People have been speaking out saying that this was going
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: to happen again, and I think everyone is kind of
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: waiting for folks on both sides to come together and
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: just figure this thing out. This is not sustainable. This
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: police department has only six hundred police officers. We are
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: stretched incredibly thin. This is taking an enormous toll trying
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: to manage all of this chaos, on top of having
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: to be the police department for a major science.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Let's pull out of this. I think this is also
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: an important point and something that I have You know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I've argued with Crystal endlessly about ice and you know
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: all of this. At this point, it is actually inarguable
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: that you're creating more chaos. And now I've talked, I've said,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: even look at ignores the chaos of what it means
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: to have people who are present in your country illegally. Yes,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: we can have debates all day long about sanctuary city,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: which look, I'm happy to hold that for another time period.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Even the President, by the way, his only real response
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: after this shooting was just to say, hey, we should
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: pass a law to end sanctuary. Fine that needs to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: be resolved through the democratic process, and that cannot involve
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: a simultaneous not just this situation, but the fallout now
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: which you own one hundred percent, and you know if
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: we're going to resolve this through democratic means. What we
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: have watched is that while yes, Trump obviously has a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: mandate or had a mandate whenever he was elected to
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: seal the border to mass support people who are here illegally,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: it has moved beyond that in these multiple cases where
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and this is where again you know, if you have
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to be watching this, you can see this wasn't even
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: a guy who was here illegally, and in fact he
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: was a US citizen and in fact, look again, I'll
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: defend deportation if it's actually happening. Well, you know, the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: actual result which has come out is that the detail
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: of the raid, which they said that it was going
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: to be happening, was not even correct. They said that
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: they were doing a targeted operation against the specifically, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: they named this illegal citizen or sorry, illegal alien. They
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: said we're going to go after the Then the Minnesota
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Department of Corrections is like, I don't even know what
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. This guy des literally not in our custody.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: They're completely incorrect. You actually released him back in twenty eighteen.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: It's like, well that if that's a shoddy process you
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: know behind all of this, Yeah, no, sorry, especially if
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: it's going to result in the death of an American,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: not just the debt, but you know, the killing of
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: this guy after he's being disarmed. And then the subsequent
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: response is basically was his fault, you know for bringing
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: a gun?
• 34:40
  Speaker 10: No?
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: You like you you are, you are so far beyond
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: immigration enforcement at this point, and it is obvious now
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to do an entire thing about
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: backlash from the public. Good by the way good they
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: should have should be backlash again something like this. But
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I think this is actually a watershed moment. I think
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: this is the day. I think that was the day
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: that Trump actually did lose on the question of immigration.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: And we are so far beyond in that in this
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: moment now, because it's not even the subsequent debate topic,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: because now we tall questions of civil liberties of two A.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, I guess, to be fair to you
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and Chris, you guys have been talking.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: And I think that's begin I think that's what O'Hara
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: is saying when he says, even if an investigation comes
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: out and you know, determines that this was justified, people
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: have had it. Like people have seen what they have seen,
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: three shootings in two and a half weeks. People are
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: people don't want this chaos because nothing that an investigation
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: can uh to determine is going to unwind what happened.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: We all saw what happened. Period. We don't want this
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: to happen in our streets. Your point about the alleged
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: target of this alleged targeted operation is a key one. Yeah,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: they said that this was a violent criminal. They probably
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: called him a pedophile that they were trying to go after,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: and they put a name out anybody. You don't have
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: to be the Department of Corrections in Minneapolis to search
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: the Department of Corrections database, like federal officials complain they're
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: not working with us. You can search state prison records
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: and find out if the guy has any record, like
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: law enforcement at the federal level has access to that data.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: The fact that they put that name out without either
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: checking whether it was true that he had a criminal record,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: and it wouldn't be embarrassing that actually it was a
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: Trump administration that released him in twenty eighteen or b.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: They don't care that. They just put the information out
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: and it might be wrong, it might be correct, but
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: they don't actually care. I don't know which one is
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: more disturbing, the incompetence or actual malicious lying. But either way,
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: to your point, they have blown their mandate they had.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: They still have the mandate I think for the border
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: because people are like, okay, fine, border like because they're not.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: We're not.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: If we were seeing people gunned down at the border. Yeah,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: it'd be different, then that would be a different question.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: But we're not seeing those kinds of images. But the
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: mandate for rounding up people outside of grocery stores and
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: home depots and restaurants and just plucking them off the
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: streets to the extent that they had that at all,
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: which I would quibble with whether or not they actually did.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: But you let's say they did. They don't have it
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: anymore because of the way they carried it out.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Because it's not just the way that they carried it out,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: it is the subsequent blowback effect and the way that
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: they're treating people who are protesting. You can even do that, well,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: you know, in a way where you're not literally shooting people,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, and then immediately accusing anybody who speaks out
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: against it of domestic terrorism. Domestic terrorism is a very
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: serious term, very serious accusation which we're now being watched
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: actually be created into a surveillance state, which we're going
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: to be talking about with Glenn. Okay, we've got Jeanine
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Unis standing by. She's going to talk to us about
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: two A. She's going to give her some of her
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: analysis on the shooting. So let's get to it. We're
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: very excited now to be drained by Janine Unis. She's
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: a repeat guest here and she is the National Legal
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: director at the ADC, very principled civil liberties lawyer, and
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: she's here to talk to us for her reaction not
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: only to this horrific aftermath of this shooting, but of
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the implications for our civil liberties. So, Jeanine, thank you
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: very much for making the time, and it's good to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: see you again.
• 38:34
  Speaker 8: Oh, thank you so much for having me back.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely associate with Janie Ryan and I just had a
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: very spirited, i think criticism of the administration that's putting
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: it lightly of the way that this has all gone down.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: But of course we are always reliant on legal experts.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: You yourself a former defense attorney. You gave us your
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: impressions immediately in the aftermath of the Renee Good case.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Could you just break down what you see here in
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: this particular case in the death of all pretty.
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: So in the Renee Good case, I acknowledged I think
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: there's some arguable ambiguity, at least with respect to the
• 39:08
  Speaker 8: first shot that you know, maybe a defense attorney could
• 39:11
  Speaker 8: convince a jury. I still think that that was a
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: bad shooting and shouldn't have happened. But this, I would say,
• 39:15
  Speaker 8: is a clear cutcase of murder. I mean, he was
• 39:18
  Speaker 8: pretty obviously executed. I watched the video a number of
• 39:22
  Speaker 8: times because the fact that everybody was wearing brown made
• 39:24
  Speaker 8: at confusing for me for a little bit, but it
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: became quite clear that he basically didn't I don't think
• 39:31
  Speaker 8: he did anything wrong at all. Still, you don't necessarily
• 39:35
  Speaker 8: deserve to be shot for doing something a little bit wrong.
• 39:37
  Speaker 8: But he, you know, he didn't, was not aggressive with officers.
• 39:41
  Speaker 8: I don't think he even broke any laws. He was
• 39:43
  Speaker 8: trying to protect two women from their aggression. They pepper
• 39:46
  Speaker 8: spray all three and then tackle him and he's like
• 39:50
  Speaker 8: writhing on the ground, and then it looks as though
• 39:53
  Speaker 8: that one of the officers takes a gun off him,
• 39:56
  Speaker 8: and then another officer shoots him nine times. I mean,
• 39:58
  Speaker 8: that's just an execute. I don't know. The fact anyone
• 40:02
  Speaker 8: would try to defend this is astonishing to me.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: In the in the first segment, we were talking about
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: the notion of passive resistance, which is a term that
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: police use in their training. It's the it's the kind
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: of most minimal level of resistance, and it means that
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: he's not remotely offensively going after any officers. In this case,
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: there's video from the front. He's being hit in his
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: face and head by what looks to be like a
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: mag light, which if anybody's ever been either that or
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: a billy club, it looks more like a mag light
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: if anybody's ever been hit with one of those. Those
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: are extremely heavy, solid things, you know, and then filled
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: with like D batteries that are going to that could
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: cause like irreparable damage to you. And so, as you said,
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: writhing around on the ground, you're trying to protect your body.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: It's just a natural impulse to protect your body. And
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: that can be categorized somehow as passive resistance because you're
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: not just you're not you're not not moving. But nothing
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: in the police training justifies go elevating that to capital
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: punishment like execution on the spot have have you? You know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: I think we got accustomed to seeing a lot of
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: videos of police shootings throughout the twenty tens as the
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: as that era arose. Where does his rank on the
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: most blatant executions that you've that you've seen?
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: I would say it's the most blatant one I've seen.
• 41:31
  Speaker 8: I haven't seen. I haven't seen anything like that from
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: the United States. It's I mean, and the standard for
• 41:39
  Speaker 8: self defense for cops is basically the same, or law
• 41:41
  Speaker 8: enforcement is basically the same as for civilians, except that
• 41:44
  Speaker 8: might be held to a slightly higher standard, which is basically,
• 41:47
  Speaker 8: you're not entitled to use force unless you reasonably believe
• 41:51
  Speaker 8: that you're at imminent risk of death or serious physical injury.
• 41:53
  Speaker 8: You're not allowed to as deadly physical force, and the
• 41:57
  Speaker 8: force us to be to proportionate and has to be
• 42:00
  Speaker 8: necessary to stop the threat. So this I don't see
• 42:03
  Speaker 8: even any argument here. I guess, you know, if this
• 42:06
  Speaker 8: case ever goes to trial, which is probably unlikely, very sadly,
• 42:10
  Speaker 8: because that's the mess carriage of justice, But I don't
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: I guess the cop could probably argue that he was
• 42:17
  Speaker 8: confused or something because someone yelled gun, and that's probably
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: the best defense that he's going to have. But I
• 42:24
  Speaker 8: don't see a jury of quitting. That seems unlikely to me.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But Janine, what's crazy is that that's not even
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: what they're going with, because you could see that again,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think you would go in the justification is, well,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: he had a gun and that's liable to get you killed. Apparently,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: let's go ahead and q up mac our great FBI
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Director Cash Petel, who has laid out a case again
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: the top law enforcement officer of the United States, saying
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you cannot bring a firearm to any sort of protest
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: that you want. Let's take a listen.
• 42:57
  Speaker 11: No, I mean, thousands of people are marching through Minneapoli
• 43:00
  Speaker 11: as they are targeting the border patrol. I mean it
• 43:04
  Speaker 11: feels like the rhetoric and the protesting is all ramping up.
• 43:09
  Speaker 11: What is your advice to the people right now who
• 43:12
  Speaker 11: are outraged that this is a second killing at the
• 43:15
  Speaker 11: hands of border patrol in two weeks.
• 43:18
  Speaker 12: As Christy said, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with
• 43:23
  Speaker 12: multiple magazines to any sort of protests that you want.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: It's that simple.
• 43:26
  Speaker 12: You don't have that right to break the law and
• 43:29
  Speaker 12: incite violence. We will, of course always protect your First
• 43:31
  Speaker 12: Amendment speech and if you peacefully protest, there is absolutely
• 43:35
  Speaker 12: nothing wrong with that. But you have seen a trend here,
• 43:38
  Speaker 12: not just in Minnesota but across the country in these
• 43:41
  Speaker 12: protests turning into violent scenarios and people attacking law enforcement
• 43:45
  Speaker 12: that's when you go over the line, and that's when
• 43:47
  Speaker 12: law enforcement steps.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: In, Janine, I mean again, you cannot bring a firearm
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: loaded with multiple magazines any sort of protests you want.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: It's that simple. You don't have a right to break
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the law. He in no way broke the law, and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: in fact, we have an absolute right to do that.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: Your reaction as a.
• 44:02
  Speaker 8: Lawyer, well, you do have a right to bring a
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: gun to a protest under the Second Amendment. The Supreme
• 44:07
  Speaker 8: Court actually recently affirmed that in a case called Bruin.
• 44:10
  Speaker 8: So I don't know what they're talking about. I mean,
• 44:12
  Speaker 8: a lot of right wing people brought guns to anti
• 44:15
  Speaker 8: COVID protests, and you know, nobody claimed then that you
• 44:20
  Speaker 8: couldn't bring a gun to a protest. I think what
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: they're trying to do is they and I saw this
• 44:25
  Speaker 8: during the last year when they were arresting people like
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: Mahmud Khalil, is they try to kind of blur the lines.
• 44:31
  Speaker 8: So they make statements like the protesters are violent and
• 44:34
  Speaker 8: so therefore it's okay that we shot him. Like each
• 44:37
  Speaker 8: situation has judged individually from a legal perspective. Mahmud Khalil
• 44:42
  Speaker 8: didn't do anything violent at all. The fact that other
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: people a protested it doesn't may have doesn't make him
• 44:48
  Speaker 8: responsible for that. And likewise, this guy clearly didn't pull
• 44:51
  Speaker 8: a gun on anybody. He was clearly not being violent,
• 44:54
  Speaker 8: So you can't sort of use the conduct of other
• 44:57
  Speaker 8: protesters to say that it was okay to shoot him.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean one of the things we've seen, sorry, Ryan, go.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Ahead, good no, no, go ahead, because I'll follow up.
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: Well.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to flag here is
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: also the immediate aftermath of this statement from Kercy Nome. Guys,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: can we go ahead and roll B three where the
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: DHS secretary talks specifically about brandishing a weapon, which is
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: a legal term, that's waiving a gun threatening, that's actually
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: something it's a crime against federal law. But also trying
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: to pair it, like you're saying, with a violent action
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of the intent of simply having a gun on your person,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: which is an absolute right. Let's take a listen.
• 45:34
  Speaker 9: Did he brandish a gun and at what point did
• 45:37
  Speaker 9: law enforcement retrieve the gun and also the magazines from him?
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: Can you offer clarity on this individual showed up to
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: impede a law enforcement operation and assaulted our officers. They
• 45:48
  Speaker 7: responded according to their training and took action to defend
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: the officer's life and those of the public around him.
• 45:56
  Speaker 7: And I don't know of any peaceful protester that shows
• 46:00
  Speaker 7: up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign.
• 46:04
  Speaker 7: This is a violent riot when you have someone showing
• 46:06
  Speaker 7: up with weapons and are using them to assault law
• 46:10
  Speaker 7: enforcement officers.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, you need this is something out of China
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: or out of Iran, or out of Israel or any
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: of these places where we've seen mass crackdown. Is that
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: the present is that mere having a weapon on your
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: person is an act of violence itself. This is literally
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: out of third world dictatorships, the same standard.
• 46:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and they're asking us to ignore our own eyes
• 46:32
  Speaker 8: I mean, or I mean, and what we can see
• 46:35
  Speaker 8: clearly from the video, there's no he did not assault anyone.
• 46:38
  Speaker 8: Anybody can see that. Yes, Frankly, a lot of people
• 46:41
  Speaker 8: who defended the Rene Goods shooting, especially on the conservative
• 46:44
  Speaker 8: side of the political spectrum, are not defending this one.
• 46:47
  Speaker 8: I've seen a lot of people say that one might
• 46:50
  Speaker 8: have been okay, but this one, no.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: What about it?
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: And it's not even about okay. It's like, look like
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: you said, you could see a case for the first
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: shot you could do, you not have to agree with it,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: and you could get past case law. But on this
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: it's just completely world's apart different.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, Ryan, Yeah, So, setting aside all the obvious
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: like blatant lies that she told there, what you often
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: hear from the administration is that these protesters are quote
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: unquote impeding that impeding law enforcement as they're carrying out
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: their kind of lawful enforcement duties. What is the law
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: around what protesters are allowed to do legally and when
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: does it cross into actual impeding. I think anybody who's
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: seen the video he's waving cars through, he's filming like,
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: there's no doesn't apply here. But so like outside of
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: this scenario, what could make it actually apply? Like if
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: you were talking to a client who asked you, like,
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: I want to go to a protest, how do I
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: make sure I'm within the law.
• 47:48
  Speaker 8: So there are two sort of separate analyzes. One is
• 47:51
  Speaker 8: impeding their enforcement operation, and that came into play in
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: the Rene Good shooting, where the argument was that she
• 47:56
  Speaker 8: was blocking them, so they had the right to arrest her.
• 47:58
  Speaker 8: Still doesn't give them the right to shoot her. That's
• 48:00
  Speaker 8: sort of a separate issue. But so if your activity
• 48:04
  Speaker 8: is substantially interfering with them enforcement operation, that might give
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: ice officers and grounds to arrestue because normally they don't
• 48:11
  Speaker 8: have the ability to enforce state law or you know,
• 48:15
  Speaker 8: they're really just there to enforce immigration and customs law.
• 48:19
  Speaker 8: So there is an exception if you are a US
• 48:22
  Speaker 8: citizen or otherwise lawfully in the country, but are impeding
• 48:26
  Speaker 8: their operation in a significant way. So I didn't think
• 48:28
  Speaker 8: that renee Goods rose to that level. But then there
• 48:31
  Speaker 8: are other laws about protesting, So you can't you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 8: you can't block traffic. You can't even if that wasn't
• 48:37
  Speaker 8: impeding the law enforcement operation, just sort of standard things.
• 48:41
  Speaker 8: You can't harass people, you know, you can't kind of
• 48:46
  Speaker 8: break the normal laws that we observe in society if
• 48:51
  Speaker 8: you were Yeah, I mean you can't. Some of the vandalization,
• 48:55
  Speaker 8: for instance, that happened during the pro Palestine protests is
• 48:58
  Speaker 8: probably not defensive from a legal perspective, but none of
• 49:01
  Speaker 8: that gives them the right to shoot you. That's still
• 49:05
  Speaker 8: you know, but obviously that should only be used in
• 49:07
  Speaker 8: extraordinary circumstances where it's necessary to save someone's life.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Right you have final thing that I just have to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: play here. You know, have our Treasury secretary again literally
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: adopting the language of some of the most extreme gun
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: control activists I've ever seen. Guys, Can we go ahead
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: and roll B two and have Jani's reaction?
• 49:25
  Speaker 13: Okay about what's happened in Minneapolis. As a member of
• 49:27
  Speaker 13: the Trump cabinet, are you're concerned to see another American
• 49:31
  Speaker 13: citizen ends up dead shot by at all law enforcement?
• 49:37
  Speaker 10: Jonathan? It's a tragedy when anyone dies. But I can
• 49:40
  Speaker 10: tell you the situation on the ground there is being
• 49:42
  Speaker 10: stirred up by Governor Waltz. I was out there two
• 49:46
  Speaker 10: weeks ago. Governor Waltz for the client provide a security
• 49:51
  Speaker 10: detail for me to go into the Minnesota capital with
• 49:54
  Speaker 10: the state police. So he is fomenting He is fomenting
• 49:59
  Speaker 10: chaos because there is substantial waste brought in abuse. My
• 50:03
  Speaker 10: job as Treasury Secretary is to investigate that. And I
• 50:07
  Speaker 10: think that this chaos that is going out there, and again,
• 50:11
  Speaker 10: I am sorry that this gentleman is dead. But he
• 50:14
  Speaker 10: did bring a nine to milometer semi automatic weapon with
• 50:18
  Speaker 10: two cartridges to what was supposed to be a peaceful protest.
• 50:22
  Speaker 10: I think that there are a lot of paid educators
• 50:25
  Speaker 10: who are jetting things up, and the governor has not
• 50:29
  Speaker 10: done a good job at camping this down. Yeah.
• 50:31
  Speaker 13: I mean, as you know, he was an ICU nurse
• 50:33
  Speaker 13: work for the Veterans administration, and there's no evidence that
• 50:36
  Speaker 13: he brandished gun whatsoever.
• 50:38
  Speaker 10: The fact that he brought disarm before brought a gun.
• 50:41
  Speaker 10: Have you ever gone to a protest?
• 50:42
  Speaker 13: John, I mean, we do have a second amendum of
• 50:44
  Speaker 13: this country.
• 50:44
  Speaker 10: That Jonathan, have you ever gone to a protest? I mean,
• 50:48
  Speaker 10: have you gone to a protest?
• 50:49
  Speaker 13: I mean I've I know actually as a reporter recovering it.
• 50:52
  Speaker 10: Okay, I've been to a protest. Guess what. I didn't
• 50:54
  Speaker 10: bring a gun. I brought a billboard.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I mean again, I mean, Janine, as you said, the
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: reasons I like talking to eu Genie is you can
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: you defended and fought back against a lot of the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: in my opinion probably your opinion too, a lot of
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: the tyrannical stuff that surrounded COVID. You've talked specifically about
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: civil liberties, so you will remember a Genie as I do.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: We have brains. We also saw many COVID protests one
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: in Michigan that I absolutely recall, in which people brought
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: guns even to the state capital. Of course, yes, the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: gun control people were furious about it, but as you
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: and I both know, that is our right, and none
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: of them were arrested for doing so because it was
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: not a violation of the law.
• 51:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah. I mean, the hypocrisy is just off the charts,
• 51:37
  Speaker 8: and they're just, in my opinion, signaling to their base
• 51:41
  Speaker 8: that they don't they don't really have any principles, They
• 51:44
  Speaker 8: don't really care about civil liberties. This is just about
• 51:46
  Speaker 8: score and political points. I mean, I will say I
• 51:48
  Speaker 8: do agree with him on one point, which is that
• 51:51
  Speaker 8: there could be more done by Minnesota to sort of
• 51:55
  Speaker 8: diffuse the situation. And one thing I think they should
• 51:58
  Speaker 8: be doing is having a state law enforcement out there
• 52:01
  Speaker 8: to keep the ice officers in check. But because they
• 52:04
  Speaker 8: don't want to get involved at all, they're refusing to
• 52:05
  Speaker 8: do that, and so I think both sides are really
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: inflaming the situation. Of course, I'm not comparing, right, I'm
• 52:12
  Speaker 8: not comparing that too, because shooting people is just absolutely unacceptable,
• 52:15
  Speaker 8: and running cover for that on the administration's part is
• 52:18
  Speaker 8: just be on the pale.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and as and you know, I had a
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: similar thought. I did hear from the Minneapolis p D
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: chief though. He made a point which is kind of relevant,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: is you got three thousand I say. He said, He's like,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: we only have six hundred sworn officers on our force.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: He's like, we literally can't do that, which is you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a fair point, right, I mean had
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I hadn't fully considered it, but I was like, yeah,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I mean he's not wrong. Like if you have five
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: to one ratio in the city, like, what can you
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: do exactly?
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe Mom, Donnie should send some NYPD's got what
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: five six thousand people in force and there's only about
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: a thousand that work at a time, Like that's funny.
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: Last thing, you know, New York City can be like
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: the Cuba, like helping helping other cities.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Helping melans.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Last thing I did want to ask you about, which
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: was a hot topic before all of this shooting, is
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put B five up here on
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: the screen again. We would like your interpretation. There is
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: an ICE memo which instructs officers to enter homes without
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: a judge's warrant. The administration is arguing that they can
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: enter a home based upon something called an administrative warrant.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: This is a bit confusing. Could you break it down
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: for us and how extraordinary the situation is or.
• 53:33
  Speaker 8: Is it right? So, an administrative warrant is not signed
• 53:37
  Speaker 8: by a judge, which is a very important thing.
• 53:39
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 53:39
  Speaker 8: Typical search warrants or rest warrants are signed by a judge.
• 53:42
  Speaker 8: The judge has signed off that the officers police officers
• 53:45
  Speaker 8: have shown that there's probable cause to conduct the search
• 53:48
  Speaker 8: or to the arrest. An administrative warrent is signed in
• 53:50
  Speaker 8: the immigration context by an ICE officer, So there's no
• 53:54
  Speaker 8: checks and balances on that. It's just it's just the
• 53:57
  Speaker 8: executive brands saying I have the right to do what
• 54:00
  Speaker 8: I want.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Can you explain that to like, an ICE officer can
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: sign a warrant, Like, what does that mean? He can
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: say I have probable cause under my own belief that
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I can go and arrest this person.
• 54:10
  Speaker 8: For violations of immigration line. Yeah, it's actually a little
• 54:13
  Speaker 8: known that immigration, the whole immigration system is within the
• 54:16
  Speaker 8: executive branch. So immigration judges are not actually independent members
• 54:20
  Speaker 8: of the judiciary. They are they're part of the executive
• 54:23
  Speaker 8: part of DOJ and that's one reason they're, in my opinion,
• 54:26
  Speaker 8: quite bad. They tend to just rubber stamp whatever the
• 54:29
  Speaker 8: executive is, which makes it very important to have recourse
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: to the federal court system, which unfortunately the Third Circuit
• 54:36
  Speaker 8: just restricted in the Khalil case. But that's another story, Okay,
• 54:39
  Speaker 8: I won't go there. So they're arguing that they can
• 54:42
  Speaker 8: enter people's homes without a warrant in order to execute
• 54:46
  Speaker 8: the administrative warrants, saying that you can remove this person
• 54:48
  Speaker 8: because they're not lawfully in the country. That's just false.
• 54:51
  Speaker 8: The Supreme Court has never said that. No court in
• 54:53
  Speaker 8: the United States has ever said that. They've been citing
• 54:56
  Speaker 8: this case from the Eighth Circuit called Lucas, where a
• 54:58
  Speaker 8: prison inmate had escaped and was hiding in a home.
• 55:01
  Speaker 8: They had the officers had information he was in a home,
• 55:04
  Speaker 8: and they used an administrative warrant to enter the home.
• 55:07
  Speaker 8: But that was kind of the warrant was almost besides
• 55:09
  Speaker 8: the point, because there's something called the exigent circumstances doctrine
• 55:13
  Speaker 8: where you can enter a home if you have if
• 55:15
  Speaker 8: the police have information that there's an ongoing emergency, So
• 55:18
  Speaker 8: like an example I've used is they have information there's
• 55:22
  Speaker 8: a child being a missing child is in this house
• 55:24
  Speaker 8: and being tortured. Okay, we can't like wait for a
• 55:28
  Speaker 8: judge to get a warrant. Very very extraordinary circumstances and
• 55:31
  Speaker 8: a dangerous prison in mad escaping would fall within that
• 55:34
  Speaker 8: in my opinion. But just someone who's law not lawfully
• 55:38
  Speaker 8: in the country being in a home doesn't come close
• 55:40
  Speaker 8: to qualifying. That would just completely eviscerate this. You know,
• 55:43
  Speaker 8: the exception would become the rule then. So this is
• 55:47
  Speaker 8: a complete misapplication of the law and it's just simply wrong.
• 55:51
  Speaker 8: And the conservatives, who mostly conservatives saying this on social
• 55:55
  Speaker 8: media and other places, are just they're not being honest.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uestions Ryan, all right, Janine, thank you so so
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: much for joining us, for breaking all of this down.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: We've got Glenn Greenwald standing by, so let's get to
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: him joining us now. Is a great friend of the show,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, to further breakdown all of this insanity that's
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: going on with ICE here in the United States. Glenn,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us. Great
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: to be with you, guys. I mean, the audience has
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: wanted you to come on and just give me a
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: good slap and education. And so here we go again. Audience,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: you're getting exactly what you want. Glenn, coming on my
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: own show. Humiliate me.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: It's the only reason I come on. If you aren't here,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: that the abusive to you.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: It is really motivation, but it's edifying. It's edifying for me.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Perhaps that's me. But okay, let's go ahead and start
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: very seriously with a new video Glenn that's making the
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: rounds of an ice protester in Portland, Maine. She tells
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: someone that she she's being told by an agent she's
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: a domestic terrorist, and he said he's going to quote
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: her to a nice little database. Let's take a listen
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: to this video.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: It's not illegal to record exactly. Yeah, that's what we're doing.
• 57:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah, why you checking my information.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Down because we have a nice little database.
• 57:12
  Speaker 7: Oh good, And now you're domestic terrorists, so we're video
• 57:17
  Speaker 7: tapping you.
• 57:19
  Speaker 8: Are you crazy?
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Glenn? This seems to fit with the larger pattern now
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: of a quote database being kept on American citizens, the
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: labeling of domestic terrorism. This is a far encroachment here.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Not only are civil liberties of the US surveillance state
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: how do you see this in that broader context surrounding
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: ICE in the entire situation happening right now. Yeah, I mean,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: if it were just that, you could dismiss it as
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: kind of like a portly trained, unprofessional ICE agent kind
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: of making a sardonic comment. But we're hearing exactly the
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: same things from the highest levels of not just ICE
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: and Home Obsecurity, but the Trump administration as well. We're
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: hearing every time, for example, the last two times that
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: ICE or border Security have killed an American citizen under
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: extremely dubious and I would say murderous circumstances, the immediate
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: response from people like Steven Miller and Christinome is to
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: label them domestic terrorists. They have clearly been instructed these
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: ICE agents have to be far more aggressive to be
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: less constrained. I don't think they're even trained in.
• 58:23
  Speaker 14: Terms of constitutional legal constraints, but even if they had been,
• 58:27
  Speaker 14: they're clearly being instructed to disregard those kind of be
• 58:30
  Speaker 14: the kind of guys who get their hands dirty.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: They're all like new recruits.
• 58:34
  Speaker 14: But then on top of this, you do have a
• 58:36
  Speaker 14: concerted effort by the Trump administration. It's hardly new, of course,
• 58:40
  Speaker 14: but it's really concerted to augment and to expand and
• 58:45
  Speaker 14: to centralize in the hands of pallenteer this domestic security state,
• 58:50
  Speaker 14: where surveillance state, where everybody has kind of a dossier,
• 58:54
  Speaker 14: everybody's put into a database. If you even make a
• 58:56
  Speaker 14: peep of dissent or protests, they feel justified in doing that.
• 59:00
  Speaker 14: So it's clearly part of a larger not just eat
• 59:03
  Speaker 14: those at the highest levels of our government, but also
• 59:05
  Speaker 14: policy choices that are reflected in that agent's comments.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: And so Glenn, our civil liberties are obviously rooted, you
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: know in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, it's
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: attached to it, but they really get their animating force
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: by by our culture, our cultural acceptance of them to
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: the extent that culturally we no longer you know, expect
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: certain liberal certain civil liberties to be respected by the government.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: Then the government just surges right in and encroaches on
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: those civil liberties. So can you talk about where we've
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: come in the last say half century around the question
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: of building databases and this type of surveillance, because I
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: think some people would say, all right, well, you know,
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: it's a government. If they want to make they want
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: to make a list they can go ahead and make
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: a list, but what is what are the rules about
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: the government making lists related to American citizens?
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a couple of things.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 14: Obviously, this Snowden reporting was primarily motivated by the anger
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 14: that not just Edward Snoden, but a lot of people
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 14: inside the US Security State ended up harboring as a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 14: result of violating what had long been considered the great
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 14: taboo of allowing this part of our government after World
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 14: War Two, the US Security State to kind of take hold,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 14: to grow without any democratic accountability, without transparency, the understanding
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 14: that it was dangerous, and the one rule that was
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 14: supposed to constrain it in all circumstances was that whatever
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 14: it is you're doing can't be turned inward, can't be
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 14: turned domestically on the American citizen. R It's for adversary states,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 14: even for Allied states, but it can't be a security
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 14: force that surveils our own people, that is intended to
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 14: keep our own people in mind in a way that
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 14: the Constitution was designed to prohibit. And of course that's
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 14: exactly what was happening after nine to eleven. That led
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 14: to people like Edward Stodan, but other people as well,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 14: like William Binney and a lot of other these whistleblowers
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 14: from the US Security State to come forward and say,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 14: this is the one thing that we were supposed to
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 14: never have, and there aren't really any rules around it.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 14: For a lot of different reasons, the courts have kind
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 14: of deferred to the executive branch. Both parties succeeded in
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 14: preventing any real legislative reform in the wake of the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 14: Snowden revelations, which allowed the security state domestically.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: To continue to grow.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 14: But you know, one thing I was thinking about actually
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 14: this morning was the fact that I know, I was
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 14: kind of pointing out the oddity of the right, the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 14: American rights suddenly cheering for and even demanding armed federal
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 14: agents on the street. Because if we look at the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 14: politics of the nineteen nineties, of course Bill Clinton was president,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 14: then this kind of anti federal government strain was very
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 14: dominant on the right in the wake of things like
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 14: Randy Weaver and Waco and other things that if people
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 14: aren't familiar with they should go back and read. And
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 14: then it, you know, really occurred to me. A lot
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 14: of them are saying, well, now it's different because we
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 14: have these illegal aliens we have to deport.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: But it's always different.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 14: They authoritarians always find some pretact in the wake of
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 14: nine to eleven, it was terrorism. Prior to that, it
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 14: was communism. So you have generations of Americans now trained
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 14: with the this authoritarian formula that unless you empower the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 14: federal government with these authoritarian powers that used to be
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 14: unimaginable at least as we were taught to understand the
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 14: United States, you're going to be endangered by a whole
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 14: endless carousel of dangers that have really frightened the American
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 14: people into accepting this kind of unconstitutional, constant erosion of
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 14: civil liberties. Yeah, I mean, Glenn, you're you're making such
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 14: an important point here, But the evolution of domestic terrorists
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 14: seems to be probably the single biggest new invention of
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 14: this second Trump administration. Let's put C two of Kirsty Nome,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 14: the DHS secretary, immediately talking about domestic terrorism in the
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 14: context here of just bringing a gun to a protest,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 14: which again is completely legal.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 12: The White House has labeled the man who was killed
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 12: in Minnesota as a domestic terrorist.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: Is that something you agree with and have you seen
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: any evidence to when.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 7: You perfatuate violence against a government because of ideological reasons
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 7: and for reasons to resist and propet joint violence, that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 7: is the definition of domestic terrorism. This individual who came
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 7: with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 7: of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: That's the facts. I mean, Glenn, you just mentioned Waco.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: This is a Waco event. For me, this is a
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: Waco event. Like to go in and to murder somebody,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to disarm him, and then immediately to come out, just
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: as the Clinton administration did after they murdered those people
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: at Waco and murdered Randy Weaver's wife, is they immediately
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: came out afterwards and said, actually, the real problem is
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: we have right wing domestic extremism. This seems to be
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: the exact same playbook. But this time around, you're talking
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: about palanteer, you're talking about databases, and perhaps most importantly,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you know, apparently you don't have any sort of pushback
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: even within the so called coalition you know that rose
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: up in many ways against allegedly against some of these
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: same practices by the Biden administration.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 14: I was going to say, you know, this isn't unfortunately new,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 14: it's not new to the Trump second second term. I mean,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 14: one of the largest critiques I had in the Lake
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 14: of January sixth was that a lot of Democrats and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 14: sort of the authoritarian list chaining types began talking about
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 14: the January sixth event as this insurrectionary movement that required
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 14: labeling the Trump movement a domestic terrorist at organization. There
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 14: were attempts by people like Many Thompson, the chairman of
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 14: the committee, to say that everyone at January sixth of
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 14: the Capitol should be put on no fly lists, kind
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 14: of this old school Pros nine to eleven War on
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 14: Terror mentality but brought to our shores. As well as
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 14: Adam Schiff who wanted to just amend the War on
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 14: Terror laws about international domestic, international terrorist organization, to just
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 14: amend it and say international or domestic terrorist organization. So
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 14: in one fell swoop kind of applied the entire War
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 14: on Terror standard to our soil.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: And this is why.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 14: I'm so amazed, sager to watch the American right that
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 14: has never thrived well when this sort of mentality emerges,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 14: because under the Bide administration, the view of Home and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 14: security was the single largest threat to the United States
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 14: is not al Kaieda, Isis or Russia, China, Iran. It's
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 14: domestic white supremacy or domestic far right extremism.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: And this was the template for dealing.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 14: With it, you know, as centralized surveillance database, importing war
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 14: and terror mentality and legislative powers to our soil. And
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 14: now you're seeing people like Christy nom and Cash Btel
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 14: and you know, Stephen Miller and jd Vance basically saying
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 14: the same thing. And I just unfortunately, we're probably never
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 14: going to get to the end of the cycle where
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 14: people don't have the capacity to critique things as long
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 14: as they perceive it's their side doing it.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: And I think that's really what we're seeing. Yeah, right,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: I think the only way we're going to get back
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: to it. And I think later in the program we'll
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: talk about Marjorie Taylor Green's response where she tried to
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: get people to imagine, Okay, imagine that these are this
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: is Biden's FBI, and they're going to execute an arrest
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 4: warn against a Jay six protester, and there's somebody filming
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: outside of that person's house, and they throw them person
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: down to the ground and execute them. She's kind of
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: screaming into a void. And one of the starkest examples
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: of inconsistency and hypocrisy on this question came from our
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: friend of the show, Matt Walsh, and you know, he
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: wrote on I Guess X yesterday, quote an armed leftist
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: went out with a gun to deliberately interfere with legitimate
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: law law enforcement operations. And I'm seeing some quote conservatives
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: on this site claim that it might be ICE's fault
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: that the guy is now dead. Insane, some of you
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: people will never effing learn. I responded to him, saying
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: that Walsh apparently is it cannot conceive of the idea
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: of a principle that would apply ethically both to people
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: he agrees with and also to people he disagrees with.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: You kind of had some thoughts on that too. I
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: wanted to see if you wanted to elaborate there.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 14: Well, it's funny with Marjorie Tailgreen and even your point.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 14: You know, back in my like rosy eyed, naive younger
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 14: days as a journalist, I remember in the Bush years
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 14: trying to tell conservatives imagine what's going to happen if
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 14: someone like Hillary Clinton or John Carey has the power
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 14: to order American citizens to be arrested with no charges
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 14: and put on an island, or to be tortured, or
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 14: to just ignore laws based on their say so that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 14: it's necessary for nouncial security. And nobody was interested in
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 14: that hypothetical. They were like, no, we're fine, we don't
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 14: think that's going to happen. And then when it does happen,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 14: they start screaming bloody murder, and Democrats turn around and
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 14: endorse it. And you go through the same exercise, and
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 14: I think that it's just an inability to not even
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 14: just an inability, but like an unwillingness to look at
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 14: things in a principled way, only looking at things through
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 14: acquiring power. And I think, you know, going to the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 14: Matt Wall's point, it's just been so ironic to watch
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 14: the American right that has been have been champions of
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 14: the Second Venment for so long, not just in terms
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 14: of your right to have a gun in order to
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 14: word off criminals, but also more so And there's a
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk tweet from last year saying this, the real
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 14: reason to have a gun, to have a second Amendment,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 14: is to be able to guard against tyrannical excesses via
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 14: police state to guarded the citizenry against that. And now
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 14: they're all talking about having a gun legally as some
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 14: sort of inndition that you're probably a bad person who
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 14: has some sort of ill intent. And that's something Cash
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 14: Betel said and Christian Holman said, basically, you should be
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 14: going to a protest armed. And it's like what all
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 14: those right wing protests during COVID and Black Lives Matter
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 14: all were ostentatiously armed to make the point that we
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 14: are allowed to have guns in the United States, including
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 14: we go to political protests. And you know, a lot
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 14: of this, I do think Ryan is this kind of
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 14: you know, need to show everybody how tough and strong
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 14: they are by saying, yeah, we're gonna go in and
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 14: we're gonna shoot you down. We're going to murder you
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 14: without any kind of Christian compassion or empathy or concerned
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 14: because we're in the middle of a war. And these
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 14: are all people who never go to war, who never sacrificed,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 14: never take any resk people like Matt Walsh and you know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 14: I was writing about this twenty years ago. These were
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 14: like the Neoklon chickenhawks, like Jonah Goldberg was writing in
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 14: two thousand and five, every ten years, we need to
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 14: pick up some crappy country and throw it against the wall,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 14: just to show that we mean businesses. Like what crappy
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 14: country or crappy anything are you Jonah Goldberg ever going
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 14: to pick up? And because he knew he was such
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 14: a weak and secure loser, he had to use this
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 14: like tough guy rhetoric and endorse these authoritarian policies. And
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 14: I think Matt Walsh is just the kind of updated
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 14: modern version of trying to show that you're a man
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 14: by indicating how little regard you have for human life.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's beyond that. Also, Glenn, and even
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: with Jonah, unfortunately, parents seems to have learned nothing. What's
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: also galling, like you just said, or the hippocratical or
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: hypocritical statements that these people are making. Who not even
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, who in Marjorie Tailler Green's
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: hypothetical scenario would have been screening voy would have encouraged
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: people to take armed and to take to the streets
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: to stand up, which, by the way, I think, you
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: know Charlie's tweet is empirically correct. It's not just about
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: self defense. That was the general intention of the Second Amendment,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: which I have always been strong support. That's why when
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: I watch a guy like Alex Pretdi get gunned down
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: in the street who did absolutely nothing wrong and then
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: the government labels him into domestic terrorists, this is Waco,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: like this is Randy Weaver. This is literally the exact
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: same thing. You've talked also, Glenn, about masks on federal agents.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: And I do want to give you the opportunity to
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: talk about that as well. That's something that I had
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: been feeling uncomfortable with. I heard their response is like, oh, well,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: we're worried about being docs, and I was like, well,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: you know, you are in a public position of power,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: and ultimately accountability of the state is like the bedrock
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: of our system. So I do want to give you
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: About that too. Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 14: In the nineties there was some convergence of left and
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 14: right around these concerns for the excesses of federal police power,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 14: both in Randy Weaver and Laco. The idea that the
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 14: state considers you a little weird to have an ideology
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 14: that they consider threatening, even though you haven't done anything,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 14: go lable to just like be incinerated in your house
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 14: or have FBI come and shoot your wife and your
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 14: kid and your dog. And there was a very famous
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 14: Gourvidal essay who was always on the left. Gorvidaal was
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 14: where he got to know Timothy McVeigh and kind of
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 14: wrote an essay not sympathetic to McVeigh personally, but to
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 14: the idea that, yeah, we really this is a kind
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 14: of tyranny, is having the federal government be able to
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 14: come and do whatever you do, whatever it wants. And
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 14: I think the idea that, you know, there's always this
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 14: kind of contradiction right wing discourse, like either left wing
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 14: men or you know, little soy boy weaklings who are
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 14: more like girls who don't really understand the virtues of
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 14: masculine courage the way Matt Walsh does because of how
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 14: he dresses in the studio. Or there are you know,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 14: people like Alex Pretty who actually do courageously go into
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 14: the street knowing that there's risk. Watching two weeks after
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 14: Ice murdered a woman in his city in Minneapolis, and
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 14: these people are confronting Ice because they believe that they're
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 14: engaging in abuse of power. These are the kind of
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 14: citizens we want. He's legally armed, he's going to a
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 14: protest to defend and believe in his cause. And I
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 14: do think he shames a lot of the people who
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 14: want to believe that they represent those values, but really
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 14: are too cowardly to do so. And as for mask
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 14: I mean, this is the kind of thing that is
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 14: the stuff of dystopian terror. Like, one of the ways
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 14: that we keep armed agents of the state accountable is
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 14: that they're subject to certain roles and constraints, and if
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 14: they transgress those rules and constraints, they're liable to be
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 14: prosecuted or to have other discipline.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: But when they're masked, it takes away a major.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 14: Part of that accountability, especially when the federal government is
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 14: refusing to allow states and cities to investigate crimes by
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 14: them in their jurisdictions. That is something we should not
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 14: want in the United States. Doesn't matter what your ideology is,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 14: your viewsed on deportation, or anything else, we should not
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 14: want masked agents of the state ring our street, snatching
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 14: people out the street in plane mark vehicles or plane
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 14: mark clothes, or using force without being able to identify them.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and the weapons came into the Randy Weaver situation too.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: People should go back and kind of read that because
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: it's such a kind of seminal moment in the nineties.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: The federal warrant that the FBI, or actually I guess
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: it was the marshals were trying to enforce on his
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: you know, little compound out of Ruby.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: Ridge was four.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: He apparently he's like sought off a shotgun for somebody period.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Which they asked him to.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: It was a total entrapment, total entrapment. So they so
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: even like the basis for which they were coming on
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: to his property was related to entrapment and a Second
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: Amendment issue as well. And then they shoot and kill
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: his fourteen his dog, and then the fourteen year old
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: kid gets upset about that, and they shoot and kill him,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 4: and you get the standoff that leads to his wife
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: being killed as well. And to have that as the
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: legacy of the of the nineties lead into this, well, man,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe you shouldn't have sold a sought off
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: shotgun to a federal agent, right then this one happen.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: That was the defense by the way of the time,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: That was literally the defense for.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 14: Exactly exactly and not only that, but like that also
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 14: then is what led to the First War over privacy
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 14: on the Internet. The Internet was only emerging in its
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 14: incipient stages then, and that was when Bill Clinton and
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 14: the Clinton administration were demanding backdoor to Internet encryption on
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 14: the grounds that they have to surveil domestically, like the
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 14: anti government militias that arose in the wake of things
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 14: like Waco and Randy Ridge to Ruby redsh to protest
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 14: against government accesses. And you have these authoritarians like Bill
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 14: Clinton and the Clinton administrations like, now, we need backdoors
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 14: into the Internet to monitor everybody. And the view of
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 14: the American right was we're not giving up privacy and
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 14: allowing the federal government to become these you know, sprawling, polite,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 14: standing armies, because they're going to crush our liberties. And
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 14: now twenty years later, it's the American right not only
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 14: cheering it but demanding it based on exactly the same mentality.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: They just don't realize it.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: Alex Jones, for some reason is the most disappointing to me.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: I agree to see.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: Him out there.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: Everything he warned about is now like coming to fruition,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: and he's out there alongside it, cheering it on.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: Cheering it, demanding it.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: I know, it's amazing, disgusting. It's so disgusting.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Glenn, as always, thank you so much for joining us,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: for breaking into it down. Good to be you guys,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: value now more than ever.