Latest / Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast / Episode 226: A Canadian Seafood Company Sold MUSKIE?

Transcript

Episode 226: A Canadian Seafood Company Sold MUSKIE? · Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio is brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: And JMB Cycle a Marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: And now, another exciting episode of the adventures of Outdoor Journal Radio.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the program.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, my little friend is not here today.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Mr.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Bowman is off.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: So I will be flying the ship solo, kiddies.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know what that means.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Wonderful show today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, our guest is Frank Ungaro.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Ungaro uh from uh Ugly Pike.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: I call him Ungaro because that's the way it would be pronounced uh in Italian.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: But um never never a dull moment with Frank.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, he's a fishing fanatic beyond the term.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he'll be talking to us about the latest uh trends and maybe locations, and uh has his finger on the pulse of the muskie community to tell us what's going on with that.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but first, uh some uh information, some news.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this is fresh off of the uh thank you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was waiting for that.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we bring in now our field uh roving field reporter, Nikki V.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, what do you got, Nick?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I got news about the store.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only news I got.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I needed.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: You ready for this news?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is big news.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is the earth-shattering news.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: The sale ends tomorrow.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's over.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: You guys did an awesome job.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Tilled it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your support.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: It uh really means a lot to us that you guys like the stuff, that you guys want to buy the stuff.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that just means that we're gonna get you some better stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not that there's anything wrong with this.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not there's anything wrong, but but you know, it's like a Porsche and a Ferrari, they're both great.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: One might be a little bit better.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So here's what we're gonna do for you now.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our new brand new design species hoodies and a couple other really cool little neat knickknacks that we're gonna bring along are going to be on the store most likely by the end of the month, if not very early, early July.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And all that being said, we're gonna have some cool little new new sale combos, maybe.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have some really neat stuff here on the store.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned, don't go anywhere.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is our breaking news report for the store.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, thank you, Nick.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: How's that for a reporter kind of a season 40 is airing and doing well on Global Television Network, coast to coast to coast.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's all those smiling faces that you're so accustomed to watching Saturday mornings at 8 o'clock.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, except on the left side of the country, they uh tend to watch us at 10 and 10:30, BC and Alberta.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in the US, uh WFN uh four times a week, and the Sportsman's Channel in Canada.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Listener feedback in response to our video on how to now uh Dean, was this correct me if I'm wrong, this video was it not like the biggest thing we've ever put out there?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: The pace is crazy.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's like I'd say like four or five thousand people watching it every day.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just steady.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's doing great.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: So this is really good.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: This was a uh uh how to fillet a pike video um that we uh produced uh out in the field on one of the shoots.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: John Moffitt of Buck Lake.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: John Moffitt of Buck Lake, and um now we get uh Waldguy via YouTube, who's at Waldguy via YouTube.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he says another secret, meaning because there were several secrets that was were re uh released in this video about filleting pike, which most of you know is one of the most difficult fish, not really, but one of the most mysterious fish to debone in the freshwater world.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, uh Wild Guy uh via YouTube says, another secret on larger pike like this, there are usually about four small bones on the lower side of the fillet, the tail end near the vent.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I was excited to put this in to this podcast because I have filleted a lot of pike.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what he's talking about.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: I have nor do I.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: So uh obviously we're gonna have to do some research.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have to uh try and see what can find those those uh like I'm wondering if he's leaving ribs behind or I mean he said big pike.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've never I've never killed a massive pike, but I don't know what bones he's referring to.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't either.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Now there is there is a fin, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right south of the vent on a pike, correct?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So and it's a short it's a short little uh fin.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just wondering if those four bones he's referring to aren't just an extension of that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a short little extension of of that fin that goes into the body.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I don't know what it'd be.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, the the Y-bones end like you can put your knife all the way through through once you're done with the Y-bones, you can take the skin off from there.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And when people do the uh five piece, that tail section is the five, like is in the five because it's always boneless, it's a safe piece.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, uh thank you for bringing it to our attention, uh Wald Guy via YouTube.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: We'll look into it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: And if we find any evidence to uh lead us to believe that there are an additional four little bones on the lower side of that fillet, we will let you know.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: How's that?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: All right, conservation corner brought to you by the invasive species center.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I'm gonna talk to you about grass carp, but I'm not gonna bore you to death and make a long drawn-out speech.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna tell you, please, please, uh, let's be part, let's look at ourselves as an army this year, out on the waterways, looking, searching uh for grass carp so that we can help uh the authorities uh find them, get their hands on them.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: And if we can catch one, that's bonus.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um go to invasivecarp.ca and uh check out all the information that those folks have for you.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Download it on your phone, and when you're out this year, you can identify these things and hopefully make a difference.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: In the news, this is uh I guess wild is the only way I can describe it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in in all my years of being in this business, this has got to be the most bizarre story I have ever read.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: And now it it's brought to you by Jamie B.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: Cycle, Ontario's largest Princecraft Mercury dealer, etc.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I won't waste a whole lot of time with them uh because this story is a year-old, apparently almost a year old story that is just coming to mainstream media now.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it's Ontario Seafood Company fined for selling 30-inch muskie.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: So selling any muskie would have drawn our attention.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: But a s I like I don't even know.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: I anyways, let me tell you the story.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's the company's called PT Seafood Limited of New Market, and they were fined 2,000 bucks.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now I don't know about you, but 2,000 bucks to me seems um almost ridiculous.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why even waste the time giving them a fine if you're gonna find them 2,000 bucks?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: That delivers absolutely no critical message there to me at all.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: 2,000 bucks.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh anyways, the company pleaded guilty uh to attempting to sell an angler cot muskie.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm assuming, Dean, when you research this story, yeah.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm assuming this company is still operating.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: As far as I can tell, I mean, there's no website or anything like that for them.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm assuming they're one of those like wholesaler companies.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it this isn't like a store you're going to to buy your fish.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming maybe if you own like a catering company or a restaurant, you would use these guys to purchase your fish.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But honestly, online when you look them up, this story is the first 10 results.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't have much of a presence online.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, of course, uh makes it perfectly clear in the regulations that um there is absolutely zero, zero uh commercial sale of uh game fish in this part of the world.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can't sell a bass, you can't sell technically you can't sell a walleye, but we certainly know that we see walleye when you travel to northern Ontario.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um you'll notice walleye signs on the side of the road uh saying walleye for sale.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: That is uh usually uh First Nations folks who are selling that.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying exclusively, but I'm saying usually that's what it means.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a bit of a gray area whether that should be sold or not, but it is happening.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: But all other um game fish, sport fish, game fish, whatever you want to call them, um, there there is absolutely zero commercial sales of those species.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So when you throw in the fact that muskie is probably the most, I don't know, sought after.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and and also the other thing about muskie too, um it's in terms of numbers, it's the smallest on the entire sport fishing chain in terms of reproduction um numbers, uh territory required for each fish to survive.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not like we got a ton of them.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: To see somebody to exist is just ridiculous.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I think a$2,000 fine.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: My opinion, uh, somebody dropped the ball on this because whoever the well, it does give you the justice of the peace here.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Sidney Thomas, uh, in the Ontario courts in Newmarket uh decided that$2,000 was an adequate fine.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: Can we look into this a little bit more, Dean?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, is I there's got to be more information than we're seeing.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this was actually given out.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ron Arnold, he does those uh conservation officer reports for the MR.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that this story came right from there.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if they with because to me, what I was thinking with all this was you know, I'm assuming most anglers would probably be more up in arms with the actual angler who tried to sell the muskie.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's no information on like what lake it came from or anything like that.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because you immediately think you immediately think, oh, some muskie angler is trying to make muskie into a business, right?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that this probably wasn't the first time this this happened.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is they just got caught.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is someone who's selling like, or you know, maybe that's not just muskie they're selling, maybe they're selling walleye and bass and stuff too, and they just got caught this one time.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's not like this is the first time that we've had stories on the program about uh illegal seafood sales or fish sales, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's a dirty market, it seems like, right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Terrible.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's and yet we all love it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: We love to consume fish.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, of all of the food groups, uh seafood or fish uh seems to be the least regulated or certainly controlled.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe regulated is not the right term.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure there's rules and regulations in place.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: As in this case, it it's very clear you cannot sell sport fish.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: You cannot sell sport fish.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's very clear, but maybe just not monitored.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I I thought that was a weird part too, because you'd think like normally those angle or those restrictions fall on the angler, not the buyer.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like someone had to sell this fish to the buyer who then would sell it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought you know the angler would be more at fault, or at least as at fault as the company.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's an interesting that's an interesting point of view, though, because if there was no available sale, then the original perpetrator wouldn't be trying, you know, wouldn't be trying to sell it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think it's the whole the whole scenario.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's from the the the person who caught the fish, because M R is stating clearly here that they believe that this fish was angled for, so it wasn't uh a netted, inadvertently netted, or you know, it was it was angled for.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you're right.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you got an angler who caught this fish, and then had the wherewithal to say, hey, hmm, I know I know a guy.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's PT Seafood Limited in New Market.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they buy this kind of stuff.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so so that's how that started.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then PT Seafood Limited of New Market also was in a position to say, yeah, I'll buy it because I know I got a customer that'll buy it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's a three-prong attack on this, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh regardless, two thousand bucks, that's a joke.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: I get I get speeding tickets that are worth more than that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, did I say that?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: No, I didn't mean that at all.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, but it just seems ridiculous.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: So uh, if anybody knows anything more about this, please uh get a hold of us.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: The information's a little bit light for something of this size.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think the scope of this story is it's massive.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: There should be more information.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the other thing, too.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Somehow this kind of just died because you say it was a year old, Dean.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the case was a year old, um, but it yeah, it was settled or or so the case was heard in 2025, late 2025, and they pleaded guilty just recently.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So the case was heard in 2025, and then just recently they pleaded guilty.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been sort of sitting on the fence.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: There's been backdoor negotiating.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: There's uh okay, I think I'm starting to get the sniff of the seafood here.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the the uh tip was received in April of 2025, so it took months to kind of confirm of what happened.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I and I'm sure the tip was just somebody saw it on the market and reported it to M and R.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: How is somebody selling a wild-caught muskie?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's been a slowly unraveling story.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm smelling something here.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, is it fishy by any chance?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Uh something fishy.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Nick.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because otherwise 2,000 bucks is not enough.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: So the the fact that they've been several months negotiating.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh okay.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: We need to look up who this PT Seafood Limited New Market.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe have him on the show.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to have him on the show.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: I would love.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: I would I would uh you know embrace that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: See if we can make it happen.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Fan question of the week comes to us by at Jerving.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is that correct?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is that Jerving?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: Jay Irving.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Jay Irving.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: He's a big fan.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's why it looked familiar.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh 7167 via YouTube saying, hey, Fish and Canada gang, good episode.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure which one he's referring to because they may all be good for all I know.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it made me curious as to what is the strangest thing you all have found in the stomach of fish.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this was in response to that salmon episode we did where they used anglers and stomachs to determine the diet of salmon.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I personally don't recall anything really outlandish.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Most of it is natural, you know, uh, just something that fish would eat.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: My curiosity stems more from a point of view um of um of what's that fish eating, which kind of helps me with my bait selection.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: Although, although I will tell you, I didn't get it directly from the fish's gut, but uh fishing on Lake Erie, we were doing an episode there uh several years ago, and I had a smallmouth bass on, and as as Pete was netting it, he got the fish in the net, and at that same time the fish regurgitated small ducks like that one that's sitting in the room.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: We had that on the show, actually.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a great episode.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: First time I'd ever seen it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like the and it must have been recent because the duck was not uh, you know, in any way, shape, or form.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was like the full deal, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: And the feathers still had a little bit of fluff to them.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: So he must have just uh got it.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: But and I don't know why we find that that weird, because I mean that's what nature is, right?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's doggy dog, in this case, uh fishy duck.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: This episode is brought to you by Sale.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: Sale is proudly Canadian and stocked with over a hundred Canadian brands you know and love.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: From rods and reels to sonars to kayaks and every last lure you've seen on the Fishing Canada show.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Sale has all the gear to get you on the water.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Drop into one of 12 stores across Ontario and Quebec and talk to the real fishing specialists or gear up online anytime at Sale.ca.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sale, the ultimate destination for your outdoor adventures.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: Alrighty, let's bring them on our guest today, a good friend and uh certainly no stranger to the outdoor journal network, uh, Frank Angato from I say it in Italian, by the way.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna speak about that in a moment.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, from the Ugly Pike podcast.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: Hey Frank, how you doing, bud?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_04: Doing great, Angelo.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for having me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Good long time we haven't talked for some bizarre reason.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: What is that all about?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's just been uh been too long, I guess.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: Busy, busy, busy.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, we let's hope that changes moving forward because I always love uh coming on and catching up uh outside of the normal things that we do together.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: So uh a couple of reasons we wanted to bring you on.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, tis the season, obviously, the one you've been waiting for.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like Christmas for you, Muskie crazed fanatics, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is this is the season.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, when you finally come out of the dark uh you know, garages and dens and basements that you've been hiding in for the last several months, building and trying to come up with the new pattern and trying to figure out how am I gonna fool those musky?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, guess what, buddy?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's all yours now.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: What's your first uh what's your first gig?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Where are you on fishing first?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we've already been because uh there's inland opener, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: So a few zones in Ontario will open the first Saturday.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: So we don't wait for the the general opener.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: We get the heck out of Dodge.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so we were on the Ottawa River system already.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: We were there last week.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_04: And uh were they waiting?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you know what?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_04: We uh it's a tradition, you know.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: We go on this uh body of water every year, and we are quite dialed in on this body of water.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we always catch multiple fish.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's not giant territory, but this this year we we got some really nice fish.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know what?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's more like uh get the bugs out of the equipment, get the band back together, you know, do a show.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so our last uh broadcast, uh actually, right, I don't know when this is gonna air, but right now we have part one of a two-part series live from the lake that we recorded there with um two gentlemen.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: One is uh a guy named Alex Puten, who owns Barbarian Braid Tackle Company, and Johnny Dadson is one of the best Muskie blade makers uh in the world, and one of the best anglers I've ever met uh for Muskie.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um so we had a really great uh discussion with them on early season tactics, bait building, and all that sort of good stuff.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we're already exhaling over here.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: We had a wonderful opener.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, you know what?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: When the uh when the general opener happens, I'll probably be uh putt putting around, getting my butt kicked on the Niagara.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then Chris, my co host, uh comes home in uh late July and we're We've got a week on Georgian Bay with a gentleman named Pete Bosswoman who always also builds baits and is a heck of an angler.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: He got a fish about the size of the one you got at St.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: Lawrence last year.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: I think he his came in at 57 inches.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think yours did too.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty close.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty close.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's huge, man.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Frank, is it my imagination or is the fraternity growing a little bit?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: What I mean by that, it used to be that there it was just hardcore, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Real hardcore fanatics were true muskie fishermen.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: And there was nothing really on the peripherals.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: You would you were either into muskie or you were into general fishing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm finding that those lines are starting to get a little blurry.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there's more and more people that are, you know, I considered casual anglers, they're starting to talk about muskie.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Is this a trend?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: What's what's going on with that?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I know it's really interesting.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's definitely happening.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know to what degree it's happening.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: So um, one of the big glimpses I think we saw uh of this, and maybe something that even facilitated it, was that the Muskie Muskie Muskie's Canada Muskie Odyssey, which is uh, you know, the trade show every two years for Muskie Anglers uh combined forces with Cancast this year in Peterborough.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so they did a mega monster show, and we saw a lot of crossover anglers.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like you said, I was really paying attention to the faces.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and there was a lot of new faces circulating over to the muskie side all day.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: So there's definitely that happening.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think that I think that shows like ours have also brought people, I mean, not just shows like ours, Angelo, but our by our affiliation with you guys, I think it's I think it's made a difference.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I think uh together uh we've shown kind of the community here in Canada that you know if you really want to, you know, see kind of what what you're made of, not only as an angler, but as a person, uh then dive into this uh crazy, you know, universe of musky fishing and uh and see see if you could test yourself.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that message is resonating with people.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and I think we're seeing people come over 100%.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: For the longest time, there's very little information.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, unless you were hanging out with the muskie guys, there was very little information getting out about this this creature at all, other than the fact that it was very elusive, the fish of 10,000 casts or a thousand casts, whatever.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and the perception was that yeah, it's it's out of my league.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's no way that I can uh get in it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's changing.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Guys like yourselves are uh, you know, making it clear that, hey, this is not something that's just exclusive to us.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is fishing, and it happens to be a particular species that we absolutely love, but it doesn't mean that you can't do it yourself.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I think that's kind of the messaging that's getting out there.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not just here in central Canada, but of course the East Coast now is making a lot of noise uh about their muskie because they are crazy down there.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Are you going to that, by the way?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: That tournament in October?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh out east?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: No, geez, I would really love to.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, look, October's a far ways away and nobody's contacted us, but it's so funny, Angela, you mentioned that because the first time you and I ever met in person uh was at the old studios when you invited us uh to co-host the AM radio show.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and you said to me that you thought the next record is gonna come out of the east because of you know, they're they're catching footballs over there, they're they're they're fatties over there, really nice fish.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's definitely gaining uh steam.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's gaining uh attention with the quality of.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, geez, I don't have to tell you guys because you guys broadcast out there all the time, but like what a fishery! Like the stripers are ridiculous.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I'm talking myself uh into going over there and and participating, but uh it's definitely on on Chris and and uh and my in my own bucket list.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I think uh I know I sound like a broken record, but I think when Chris moves back to Canada, which is now kind of in view because his kids are are gonna be going to university, and that's that's kind of always been the benchmark for him coming home.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh now we're gonna be able to take a lot of these these different trips and and take a lot of these adventures and and really uh uh add to uh our current uh stuff that we do to make this podcast interesting.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um but on that on that note, um, I should add, like, it's really daunting, like you say, and and even myself as a young angler growing up, my my father was a recreational pilot.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: He used to take us up to uh he used to take me up to Lake Nipissing a lot.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let's just get in the plane and go.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, but he was a shitty crap, sorry, a crappy angler.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and he uh he he he just wanted to get away.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: He was a very busy um you know professional and he just needed to get away.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, he we would go he would always be for silver bass or for whatever.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, don't end up in singles.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: Anyways, and uh he would say, you know, if we come if we see a muskie, if we see muskie.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: And like to me, the must be was always, but of course we never saw one.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so like Angelo, just kind of like you described it, I always had that feeling as an anger, like, yeah, I'm never I'll never see one, I'll never get one.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I really think the the the big change is now uh multimedia podcasts and also like um organizations like Musky Cannada that are um really uh uh advocating for their chapter meetings that they have, I think once a month or what however it goes.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that's how I met a lot of my network was just by going there and making friends and asking people for help.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I think uh any of the young or or curious uh season anglers that are listening, you know, it's it's if you show up in person and and and you're friendly, people are gonna want to help you.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's uh that combined with you know listening to a podcast, those are cheat codes for muskie fishing.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've ever met, and I know I'm gonna offend some people, and please don't take it the wrong way, but I don't think I've ever met a nicer group of folks than muskie anglers.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Every time that you know we encounter a situation where we're either working with or you know have any interactions with uh muskie anglers, it's just a delight.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because because uh they take and it's not that they're fanatics, I keep calling you fanatics, but that's not really what I mean.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they take this thing um to another level.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's almost spiritual.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: I find that if I'm among a group of muskie anglers, there's a certain spirituality to it.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: That that this muskie, this this creature is revered beyond any other fish that just normal anglers would could associate with, right?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, there's no question.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: There's a couple things like to the spirituality thing, um, it's a majestic fish.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: And um I sent Pete actually a reel I made on my personal Instagram of the trip and get him to show you that because you know the the when you have your head and shoulders in the net and you're trying to hoist this fish, it is a feeling like no other um in all of uh sports uh to to have captured an apex predator like this and then to be in you know up close and personal with it and lifting it up and then putting it back in the water and making sure you know it's strong enough to swim.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is such a special moment um historically to to our native people that that is a magic fish.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: And um also I think like um I think that uh you know if if you're casting like we went to lack school last year, and man, we we got our butts handed to us.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: You're casting for 10, 12 hours a day, you're gonna see spirits, you're gonna be hallucinating in the heat.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's your body seizes up, it cramps it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's tough.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_04: But with that comes humility.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm a big jujitsu guy.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: Jiu-jitsu people are the greatest people.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: Muskie fishing fishermen are great people, and we are always being humbled by these pursuits.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: And when you have that dynamic, then you're nice to people because you're you're you have humility.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's a huge, huge part of it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, whatever it is, uh you guys have got it in spades, man.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned something about being in that net and that hoop and trying to, you know, dislodge the bait from the from the fish.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think also size has something to do with that feeling because unlike you know any other, whether it's bass or walleye or whatever, uh truck the size of this fish when you're looking at it up close and personal in a net, you know, just the distance between the eyes and the forehead and the snout, that's it's it's it that's the big to me, anyways.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's the big difference.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because all of a sudden, this creature is almost the same size you are, and it looks very similar with those eyes staring at you.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so, so there's a a different connection that you have with this.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll never forget my very first muskie, uh, purely by accident.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um I might have I might have been, I don't know, I'm gonna say 13, 14 years old on uh Lake Skugog.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh fishing in the lower swamp, uh, as they called it back then for bass, uh in four feet of water, using you know, typical bass gear.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, my world just went upside down.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: This this monster is the only way I can describe it at the time, yeah, took a hold of my bait and completely destroyed everything.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the first time I I had an encounter with it.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I have to admit, it's kind of stuck with me ever since.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I get a muskie, in fact, I go back to that day, that feeling that I had, that moment of contact, that almost that intimacy I was uh with the fish.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I go back to it every time I get a muskie, whether where regardless of where it's from.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so there is something there, and that's shown in the people that pursue it and chase this uh critter around.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I think I think part of it is like every time is like the first time.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: We've we've we've we've spoken to some, we've spoken to the Angelos of the guide world and muskie, like season season guys that have said the same thing.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: When my the day my knees stop shaking is the name day I'm gonna I'm gonna hang it up.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it never gets old.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: And especially when you get a fish where you can see the back, when you can see the the the low point in the back and then the high shoulders.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's when you know you have a real one.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: And um that happened to me last week, and uh it's so funny because like I got a really good friend who's uh uh just a really good friend of mine that always talks about like you gotta be more positive, you gotta visualize.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and also my friend Johnny Dadson's very spiritual when it comes to this sort of thing.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: And and you know, he's like, you know, if you will it, you know, it's gonna come.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I keep I kept saying, like, this is gonna be the year something, like something big's gonna happen for Chris and I in the water.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: I I just feel it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: And uh sure enough, at Opener, we man, we hit it out of the park.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, like I said, in this in this particular place we are, they don't get huge, huge, but I still feel like we've got something big uh in store this uh this summer for us.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we're we're over the fall, but I I I have a really good feeling about our our upcoming Georgian Bay trip.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that is world record water for me.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_04: That is the fabled Canadian fishery, the fabled Canadian muskie fishery that is kind of the cradle of muskie fishing um uh for what we do here in Canada.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: And uh it's a magical, magical spiritual place for us.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and I have such a great feeling uh about this trip.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, but it's funny, funny fact about Skugog, Scoogog is the birth birthplace of the Ugly Pike podcast.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh um, yeah, Chris and I uh when Chris came up to me out of nowhere and said, let's do a podcast, we were we were headed out to Lake Skugog for our first ever fishing adventure together.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh that wasn't an ice fishing trip, that was a musky targeting fish, uh, a fishing trip.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: And uh unlike you, who I think what you're telling me, you caught that fish on the left side, this the shallow side of Skugog, we went around the horn into the deep pit, and uh it was really funny because we had full sun that day and we had a triangular cloud, and we watched that cloud come to the sun, and the second the tip of that cloud hit the sun, boom, uh our line uh Chris's line went off and um you know pulled a beautiful fish out of there.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, there's some equation why school.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: We've talked to really good scientists and they say schoolgog will never get a 50.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: And they went through the whole biology.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: This thing was uh probably about as close as you're ever gonna see on Skugog.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, but that was the day that the podcast was born.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: That was the day where we decided we we were so intrigued by uh this fish that we had to start, we just were compelled to start the show.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_04: Now here we are, you know, talking to you.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: We we we've been talking here for the last 10-15 minutes, and and I'm now I I'm sort of recalling what we're saying.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's why this fish is legendary.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's a story that happens in everybody's life that's into fishing that somehow is connected to a muskie if they're freshwater fishing.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: My grandson Nick, his uh big muskie also came from schugong, not too far from the area that I was referring to, uh, where I saw my first one.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot there, and schugg in particular, a lot of people are connecting to muskie from that body of water.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why they say it can't grow a 50-pounder or 50-incher, because I mean, talk about fertile and and tons of food and you know, fairly difficult to access in terms of where these muskie are.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, little very little pressure on them from muskie anglers.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: You would think that they would grow to big sizes there.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and coincidentally, the uh Nick Viola Pat Triumph Part one is still and will always be my favorite fishing canada episode ever.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: Love it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: We just had Pat on the show a couple weeks ago.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: We hadn't spoken to him in years, and uh, I let him know.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: But um, man, I don't remember if it was like uh Stephen Cook or Sean Lansman, but it was one of the one of the the the the scient Muskie science royalty guys that that gave us an uh some sort of sensible explanation as to why those fish never hit 50.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I just I wish I could recall it, but you know the only thing would be depth, maybe.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, obviously there are no real deepes there, but I don't think I don't think muskie is needed as evidence on the St.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: Lawrence.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: Depth is not the key.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have you been out there, by the way.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_04: I go every fall.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: The biggest muskie I ever saw.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: What we pulled out of the dude.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: We pulled this, we pulled this fish.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'll I'll tell the story real quick.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: We were there and I I like to fish cold water.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I like to go to the Larry in cold water season.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: So we go and we're fishing our our fishing hole.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: We're trolling because it's freezing, you know, and there's a fishing hole, and then there's a fishing hole, and then there's a place in between that's like eight to ten feet.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: And so we were fishing one fishing hole.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: We're like, let's go to the other place, you know, bring the lines up.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_04: We bring our lines up to the leaders so that we can traverse this space that we never fish because we call it no man's land.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: And how is there gonna be a giant muskie sitting here in you know eight feet of water at this time of year?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and so my buddy, who's an okay angler but not a great angler, he brings his line up and forgets to put his clicker on.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're we're going, and my friend, my buddy Alex is driving the boat.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: He says, What's what's that noise?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: We hear like a whistling noise, and uh we don't know what this noise is.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: And my buddy turns around, he looks, and the line is just peeling out.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: He forgot to put the clicker on.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: The line is peeling out, and uh, and so we we uh we all go crazy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna show you some video footage when I see him next.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: We can't, it's it's it's absurd.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_04: I uh I don't even I've never published it because it's so absurd, but we actually lost our minds.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: And uh we bring this fish in, and it's a a 53 by 26 inch girth.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's just an absolute trophy, uh Muskie.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: And uh we had a happy ending, but um, you know, we caught that fish and and like you say, like such as seasoned as we think we are after 285 episodes and and all these meetings, and you know, talking to these great anglers, uh, we never thought for a second that the fish we've been looking for all these years was gonna be in that spot, and it was.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: So and when you think about it, Frank, it makes so much sense, right?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is an apex predator by the truest sense of that word and that phrase.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it it it needs to make sure that it keeps the tank full.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's one of those predators that I think more so than other fish, uh, really has to have its skills all set to go when it's feeding.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: And what better place for a giant fish like this to feed than shallow water?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Think about it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: It just makes so much sense.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: That much less water that its prey has to swim away from, right?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if it can start, you know, closing in the bottom with the uh with the surface, that's prime, I think, prime muskie feeding area.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know I know the stories about the deep, big, giant deep muskies and all that.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I I'm not suggesting they don't live in that water, but I think during prime conditions when it's time to feed and everything is aligned, I think muskies are tending to go a little bit shallower than we think.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and your story is a case in point.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's now.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get any other fish in the deeper parts?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so like not only that, but like we typically our pattern, late season pattern, is to fish around 17, 18, between 15 and 18 feet, and we have tons of success.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_04: This was why this was such a mind bend for us.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, like uh a lot of the times, like so take Opener, for example, like we had such hot weather conditions that we were starting shallow, like you said.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: We were we were fishing shallow, we were fishing weed lines, and if we didn't see them, we would go lower, we would change our tactics and go lower and and just see where the fish were.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but that time of year, we typically don't fish that shallow.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that being said, now every time we go there, I don't think there's ever going to be a time where we're not keeping those lures in the law in the water when we're in that no man's land.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_04: And the funny thing was, you know, kind of like you say, I remember that night we went into the marina, and it's a pretty long pathway into the marina where you're in, you know, four feet of water, whatever, with long weeds.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: And we had a really high-powered light, and you know, the water there is crystal clear.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: So we were able to really look at the ecosystem and you see this fish bedded down here and that fish bedded down there.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not talking just muskie.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: We saw uh we saw probably, you know, seven or eight different types of fish that were kind of bedded down or waiting in ambush or whatever, uh, including musky's, which was kind of really neat to see.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I think this adds to the um just a weird variability of catching muskie, where you know, even the seasoned anglers will tell you they don't have it all figured out.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: There's always a curveball that muskie are gonna throw to you.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: And uh this is just another example.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's it's part of it all, it's part of the madness.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about the story you told us uh a little earlier on.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's time, man.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's that time of year.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, talk to us about baits.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: What's new?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: What's new and exciting?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: How uh what should we be looking for uh this summer?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Baitwise.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: New and exciting.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is there like you know, I mean, we've always talked about uh two standard uh presentations.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, trolling is probably I'm assuming it's still number one for most musky anglers, or I'm not sure.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm not so sure.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: I you get your yeah, it's it's it's very polarized.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: You got your casters and you got your trollers.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna tell you something right now, man.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I thought I knew how to troll until I trolled with some real experts, and it is a science.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: Now, growing up as an angler, a multi-species angler, as we all have, it's a special thing when that muskie hits your line on a retrieve.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's special, it's a special thing when you got a figure eight gold and you've got this fish on a wire, and he hits or she hits.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, there's something special about that.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: But to me, I love the lull where you're you're you're trolling and it's very scientific.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_04: People think, oh, you just drive around.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_04: No, those are what unsuccessful trollers do.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: Successful trollers are formulaic.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: And you when that line rips, it might be a day or two, but when that line rips, no matter no matter who I'm with or whatever, there's always that instant of confusion as to like, what is that?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, like you don't know.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then a second later, everyone's going nuts.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what I love the I love the shock of the trolling rip.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: But I mean, I think I think part of the real cool thing about the Muskie community is that there are so many bait makers right now that are always innovating.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: So like the question for me is like, do you go for your old baits that you know that work, a double 10 bucktail, or something like a suick that is, you know, a store or a shadzilla, these, these, these proven, you know, catchers, or do you want to change your signature in the water and fool a fish that has an education?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because these fish do get educated.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I think bait selection depends on the body of water you're on.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think if you're on a pressured system like, you know, somewhere in the Kawarthas or uh, you know, something like that, I think you want to kind of step out uh and try to do different things with your bait selections.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, uh I also think time of year matters as well.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, in the fall for me, it's crankbaits.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: In the summer for me, I love burning blades and spinner baits and all that sort of thing.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I I mean I think I think my answer is, you know, tap into this community, get on some social media, and see what people are making out there and and have some fun with your bait selections.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: I was running uh a bait that was a prototype that we prototyped last year called Elvis because we think Elvis is going to be the king.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I ran uh the Ungaro Walleye, so it was a color that was created for me by my buddy uh at Barbarian Braid, and this thing was down 10 minutes and pulled the biggest fish we ever seen out of the solar system.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I I I really credit that to us um always innovating.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: My group, the guys I fish with, always pushing the envelope and innovating and dialing in these bait prototypes, and us always having a line to cultivate new ideas.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think you know, I think that answer is to people listening like plug into this community, listen, listen to our show because we always have these bait makers on.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: And if we don't, we have guides that are talking about these baits.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: And find out what's new and exciting and what kind of sounds good to you.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_04: If you're a troller and you like what I just said, you know what?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe maybe hit us up or or or hit up that vendor and see if you like those baits.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Or uh or go to a great proven bait like uh a Shadzilla and see what they're innovating because Mike over there has been innovating his baits um and has a new solid body Shadzilla.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: The guys over at Red October, which are just like these are tried and true rubber baits, they're always innovating their baits too with different uh looks and different feels and blades and adding blades.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's a long convoluted answer for I think plug into the muskie verse and follow your gut because so much of what muskie fishing is is is uh you know, education plus instinct, feeling.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, when I select a bait out of my tackle box, it's the one that I feel good about that day.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: That moment, that moment probably.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, is this the same for you?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: I same thing, buddy.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: That that uh that bait you just talked about, tell me tell me it wasn't a one-hit wonder.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: Did it prove to be successful beyond the that one fish?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: No, we we netted six fish.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Elvis got three of the six fish.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, she's she's a puller.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_04: That thing is a puller, and that is, you know, I have another bait that I'm not gonna not gonna talk too much about, but I call it the king.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: We call it the king because on the St.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_04: Lawrence, it's the king, it's always in the water.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_04: And uh when you get baits like this that pull and are proven, like that's the real, that is the real quest in muskie fishing.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: Because I see on these Facebook groups, hey, I'm selling my, you know, I'm selling three of my baits.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: I got and I always think, well, why are you selling these baits?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm not selling my pullers.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_04: So if you have a puller, you put that into your arsenal and you keep that into your arsenal until it's not a puller.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: This is the real, this is the real thing about muskie fishing that takes, if you really want to do it, it takes time because you got to find those pullers.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: And once you find those pullers, you hug them with both arms.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny that you say that because most anglers uh would hear that comment and say, guys are selling baits?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what do you mean you're selling baits?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, in the muskie fraternity, that's a big thing.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, people oh, it's massive.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and and people um buy and sell this stuff.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost a almost a commodity.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: And if there's a story behind that bait, it doesn't matter if if there's a similar bait right next to it, the one with the story is the one that gets most of the action, right?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: The one that gets gets the crowd around it at these shows.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's insane what happens at these muskie shows.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, for those of you listening and watching, if you've never been if you don't have to be into muskie fishing, trust me.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: But you need to go to a muskie show.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: You need to go to truly understand how powerful angling can be, you have to go to a muskie show and just sort of hang out with some of these crazed muskie anglers because that's when you truly realize wow, fishing is huge, man.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: Fishing is massive, you know.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_04: The other thing about these muskie shows is you're going to see artistry like you just don't see in other tackle forms because you've got these giant canvases, and so you see the these, you know, these baits are beautiful now.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: And this is like this is what's catching anglers.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's even I fall trapped to it now and then.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like I've got to have that bait.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I have this bait by uh a company out of Minnesota called Supernatural Big Baits, very famous in the uh in the Muskie community.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I love their tagline.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: Known to start fights.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's absurd.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_04: But they had this bait, it's like a peacock color.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's they call it arowana, and it's got all this iridescent purple and blue and yellow.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_04: I bought the thing for a hundred bucks because and I don't even think I ever rent it because I'm like, look, look, what forage is this for Muskie?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_04: It looks like a parent.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_04: But man, I had to have it.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: It was so beautiful.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: So, to your point, I think, you know, like especially if you're at like if if the Odyssey stays hooked up with Cancast, go over to the Odyssey section and you know, go to go to Joe uh Joe Sampson's uh uh booth and and this is a real artist.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: He's an actual artist that paints things, and his baits are just like, you know, amazing.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: Or like um, or or Bosswoman and Dadson, they work together and they create these blade baits with feathers, and guys collect them.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've seen pictures of guys in the States that have these Dadson walls that are, you know, just full of baits.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: And these are not cheap baits and they're not easy to get, but guys collect them like they collect art.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how many of their wives know what they're doing or what the cost associated with this is, but um, it's very much about the artistry.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: But I will say, when you see these crankbaits and stuff getting sold online, you never see them with tooth marks.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, absolutely not.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because those are those are those special ones that people, and by the way, it's not just um you can have two identical baits, identical, and one is as you call them, a puller, and the other one's not.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the baits that that anglers, musky anglers hang on to because it's not just a totally different look than the same bait for some unknown reason just knocks it out of the park, and the other one can't even get a sniff.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: That happened to me down east uh a few years ago, um, where we were we were playing around with stuff, you know, we were throwing everything but the kitchen sink, and the one bait that was working really well, we had oh, I'm gonna say a total of seven of them of this this one particular bait.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: And one was catching and the others weren't.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we did a little experiment.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: We said, all right, this is impossible.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_03: We have to put them side by side, we have to use them.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: We both have to be using these at the same time, in the same water, the same way, and and we did.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: And one bait, that one particular one just outperformed it, and then I ended up losing it at the at the very end, but which killed me.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_04: That's a heartbreaker, absolutely killed me.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's funny because Gord Pizer has a funny story about I think a perch bait that he had that was damaged, and a little chunk came out of the lip, and that became one of his best baits.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: And he and he told me we were at a show somewhere, and he told me that every time he would buy a new one, he would take his Dremel and recreate the the damage to the lure so that he would get similar action.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it's definitely a thing.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it's definitely a thing.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you think why do you think mainstream the mega lure manufacturers or they have, I guess they all have taken a stab and failed misery, but I was gonna say, why do you think that the mainstream guys are kind of steering away from muskie baits?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because you would think if anybody can do it, yeah, it would be a Rapla.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or it would be, you know what I mean, one of these mega builders that that uh but why they don't?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: They stay away from it.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I've spoken to Rapla, you know, I've spoken to a lot of companies.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think it's the size of the market, frankly.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think that they're they're gonna have to create all new molds.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's expensive uh for the return.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I also think that the um the community itself is a hedge against these big companies because they're gonna be competing with these bait builders uh that are building baits in their basement and that are catering to this, these art collectors and these sportsmen.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um I I there's another there's another aspect to this, and that is a lot of us want to catch baits on uh catch fish on baits that our friends make.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like there's something special about uh a guy that you see, either a buddy of yours or a guy that you know is working a full-time job, and at night he's going home and killing himself to pull to make these baits, excuse me, and he gives you one, and you want to do right by that guy because you want to help him out and you want him to feel good.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_04: So this is where the community aspect of muskie fishing goes, where a lot of us are um are with our buddies and supporting bait makers that we feel are are uh are are giving so much to this community.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a real insider dynamic to muskie fishing that I think to an extent we say we don't really need those big companies.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that makes sense.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: That certainly makes sense.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_03: And they have just they understand, they read the market, and they just back off, say, hey, I don't need to go there.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've often wondered, uh, especially when I was in the retail trade, you know, why aren't they jumping on board and doing this stuff?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I think you just answered my question.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh for sure.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and even the big vendors, like I've been to some of the big fishing uh shops in in southern Ontario, you know, uh trying to sell our brand, and and you know, and you go to the muskie sections, and they're always the smallest sections in the store.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I I I think it's you know, guys will go to the muskie odyssey and spend two, three, four thousand dollars.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_04: They'll stock up for years.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um guys will get online and and you know, follow their bait makers on social media, and you know, people start pulling fish with a certain bait, then people are going to be going and ordering that bait online.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: So um that's what's happening.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm I'm quite sure that that is exactly what's yeah.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_03: From a retailer standpoint, it's pretty tough to get into that market because of the homegrown nature of that industry.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: People are selling to their buddies.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: And for a retailer to try and get some of that inventory and market up because they need to make profits to sell for their costs and stuff, right?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's pretty tough.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty tough.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think it helps.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so this is kind of a strange thing to say, but I think it helps when you have retailers that are owned by anglers, by real anglers, guys like you and me and like the people listening.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, places like Angling Sports in London, they have massive muskie selections because I think those guys understand the culture.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that the the culture understands them and you have that support dynamic.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think if it's different if a rappela were to say, okay, we're gonna do muskies now, and then it's it's a little too impersonal.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I and I think, like I said, we want to support, we want to support the outfits that support us.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_04: And angling sports was a huge supporter of our show.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_04: They were sponsored for quite a while.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and those guys are are for real.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and so you you you hear about people making the trip out there to go and and and they know that they're gonna get in front of a good selection.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: So that's not to say there aren't anyone, there isn't anyone doing this, but I again I think that the the personal aspect is what drives everything in muskie fishing.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_04: And and the scales of the of the baits are are no different.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: That makes it magic for sure.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: Which brings me to the final thing I want to discuss with you.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a disturbing story that we talked about earlier on in this uh podcast uh about the a seafood company that was fined for selling uh 30-inch muskies recently in our neck of the woods.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um I first of all, I'd never heard of anything so outrageous in my entire life.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Of all fish to use as contraband sales, to use as you know, under like why am I why would you other than size, I suppose it's but I I don't I don't get it.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't get it.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: Do you do you know where they were getting those fish?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: They don't yet.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: There's it's an ongoing uh um it happened in New Markets where the They were angler caught, though.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_03: They were they were they said they were angler caught.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so my guess is those came out of the Kwarthas.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: If I had to guess, I don't know.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's just my guess.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, honestly, where like where are you gonna get a volume of fish to be able to have any sort of commercial stake?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what is your question?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_04: Are you are you asking me my opinion on the matter?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know your opinion.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about that?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_03: I guess maybe, maybe does that mean does that mean that uh muskie have come full circle now?
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, from the mysterious, uh elusive, uh hard to find, uh few anglers pursue them to now being on the market for sale.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's just I find that whole thing bizarre.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's gross.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't know who like we have walleye here.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: We have we have the best freshwater fish in the world here.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: Why would anyone, especially if they're pulling these fish out of uh uh real relatively warm, shallow uh bodies of water, like you know as well as I do, like pike is delicious, but I want to pike out of Eagle Lake, I don't want to pike out of you know a I don't know about a 12-foot weed bed that's been soaking in the sun and eating, you know, whatever.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it makes a really big difference.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: So um I don't know, like first of all, you gotta follow the law.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you can't legally keep a fish, you shouldn't.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think if people need to feed their families, okay, get a fish and if you want to eat it, then eat it.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_04: That's fine.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: But it's gotta be legal, but it's also ew.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was also offended by the fine.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: By the way, the company's called uh PT Seafood Limited of New Market, and um they were fined 2,000 bucks like each.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what is that?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: Well, my guess is that didn't meet did it just not meet the minimum requirement to keep a muskie because a lot of zones in Ontario you have to have, you know.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I know up in in Sunset uh country there it's 54 inches, like different zones have different legal limits for keeping fish.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's what the fine was based on.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, it's the fine is based on the fact that you cannot commercially sell uh sport fish, right?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I gotcha.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_04: Game fish.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can't you can't sell game fish in this this neck of the woods and uh talk about this is the ultimate game fish.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like so to me, that standard fine, which that sounds like a standard fine to me, 2,000 bucks.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think they should have thrown that out the window because this is such a unique situation.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think this was a great opportunity to really deliver a message that you don't screw around with this fish called Muskie, right?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I you know, like it's the the ecosystems like for Muskie are are quite fragile.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: We don't stock here in Canada, really, right?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: So, like when you look at bodies of water like the St.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: Lawrence, it's very hard to find a 30-inch muskie.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, um, you know, it's very hard.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: The the lot of those the St.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: Lawrence is what it is because the fish are huge, but that's not really a good thing because they're having a uh a reproductive crisis on the St.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_04: Lawrence River.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: So anytime I hear people keeping small muskies like that, my heart breaks a little bit.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's insane.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, anyways, I just wanted to make sure if you weren't aware of it, to look into it and uh and uh see what you make of this whole situation.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think we'll talk about that on the show.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's not aware.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, look it up for sure.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh my friend, uh wow.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh where does the time go, huh?
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's always a pleasure, it's always a pleasure.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_04: We need to do this, I think, more often.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_04: I still I still owe you a visit.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna be coming up to the studio uh as soon as I can get up there and and you know, let's go have lunch or something.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: All right, my friend.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh say hello to Chris for us.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: And uh uh for those of you watching who have not engaged with the Ugly Pipe podcast, man, you are missing out on uh well, Canada's biggest uh muskie podcast.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: If not, I don't even know.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm gonna say North America's biggest muskie podcast.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's possible.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's possible.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right, it's possible.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Frank, thank you very much, my friend.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: We'll talk to you soon.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Angelo, always a pleasure.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for having me.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Frank Ongaro, uh, what a wonderful character and what a great steward for muskie fishermen and muskie fishing in general.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, nicest guy on the planet.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and uh uh knows a lot of stuff.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: Him and Chris, if you haven't, I'm serious, if you haven't uh tried sampled one of their podcasts because you think, well, I'm not really into muskie, you gotta check it out because it's not just about muskie.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: They they go down uh um all sorts of interesting outdoor and angling uh scenarios with you uh on that show.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it's great.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: That are it, uh gentlemen.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: Did we uh did we make it?
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: We did pretty well.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh we're in need of a bonus code still.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's been listening for that.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want to do?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's gotta be well, I think it's pretty obvious on this one, right?
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yes and no.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: Obvious would be Muskie, uh, maybe ESOX.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: Uh maybe Ugly Pike.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have news to report with the um the other the two-word code there that we did uh the other week.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did it work?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: It worked.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: No way, it worked.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we could do ugly pike, all capitals two words.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we do that?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: Lock it in.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's locked in.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_03: Ugly Pike, all capitals two words.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're in you're in.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, that are it.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh on behalf of the entire crew, minus uh Mr.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: Bowman, who will be back in the next show.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I want to thank everybody for joining us once again.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: And by the way, just as something different, right?
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: Don't normally close this way.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: Give us um show us some love before you sign up.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of love can they show?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, how about subscribing?
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: How about a comment?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: Just a comment would be love.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: Anything like that.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's weird.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_03: All right, uh in another minute.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um behalf of Nikki V.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_03: uh Dean Taylor, I'm Angela Bonello.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for joining us.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_03: We'll catch you next time.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_03: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio has been brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_03: And J and B cycle a marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.