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Killer Thriller: Clayton Echard · Legally Brunette

0:06
Speaker 1: Amy roboc and TJ.
0:07
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.
0:14
Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, a Lisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Okay,
0:18
Speaker 3: today we are really getting into a very very nuts
0:22
Speaker 3: o case. Because sometimes the most dangerous stories they are
0:26
Speaker 3: not the ones that happen in dark alleys. They happen
0:29
Speaker 3: in inboxes, courtrooms, headlines. So today we are stepping into
0:34
Speaker 3: a case that played out in real time in the press,
0:37
Speaker 3: in the legal system, involving former Bachelor Clayton Eckhard. So
0:42
Speaker 3: what started as just a single simple date quickly spiraled
0:46
Speaker 3: into a paternity claim, accusations of twins, hundreds of messages
0:50
Speaker 3: and emails, court filings, and eventually felony charges. So on
0:55
Speaker 3: the surface, it looked like just another celebrity scandal, but
0:58
Speaker 3: underneath that, this is the out reputation, manipulation, public judgment,
1:03
Speaker 3: and what it feels like to try to prove your
1:06
Speaker 3: innocence to a world that pretty much already assumes that
1:09
Speaker 3: you're guilty. So Clayton is here to talk about surviving
1:13
Speaker 3: that storm and about his new podcast, Love Trapped Owens v. Eckard,
1:18
Speaker 3: where you can hear all of the incredible details.
1:22
Speaker 2: Clayton, Welcome to Killer Thriller.
1:25
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm actually I'm super excited.
1:27
Speaker 4: I've I've been on a couple other podcasts, but nothing
1:30
Speaker 4: in this realm, like this genre. So I feel like
1:34
Speaker 4: you're gonna You're gonna really ask.
1:35
Speaker 1: All the good questions that I've probably not be asked yet.
1:39
Speaker 2: Great.
1:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for us, this is a little bit
1:41
Speaker 3: of it may feel like lighter fair, but for you
1:46
Speaker 3: it clearly is not because this has had a massive
1:50
Speaker 3: impact on your life. So we'll definitely get into a
1:53
Speaker 3: lot of the legal things in like the case. But
1:56
Speaker 3: when you my first question is when you look at
2:00
Speaker 3: May of twenty twenty three, did you have any sense
2:04
Speaker 3: that this was about to become your life?
2:08
Speaker 1: No, not at all.
2:10
Speaker 4: I had already actually been through one false accusation. It
2:13
Speaker 4: was a cheating scandal which happened in the previous year,
2:17
Speaker 4: and I disproved that within twenty four hours, thankfully due
2:20
Speaker 4: to location services on my iPhone individual I claimed that
2:23
Speaker 4: I went to New York, but I never did. My
2:26
Speaker 4: phone showed that I stayed in Arizona.
2:28
Speaker 2: Amazing.
2:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was able to disprove that. But I
2:32
Speaker 1: thought that was going to be it.
2:33
Speaker 4: You know, I thought, okay, wow, false accusation coming off
2:37
Speaker 4: throughout a television.
2:38
Speaker 1: I get that I wasn't really liked as a lead.
2:40
Speaker 4: I was controversial, So I suppose maybe this is just
2:43
Speaker 4: what happens. But I figured that'd be the extent of it. No,
2:46
Speaker 4: I did not think that i'd be in a three
2:48
Speaker 4: year paternity scandal.
2:49
Speaker 2: Right.
2:50
Speaker 3: So when you're saying, like the false claim you are
2:52
Speaker 3: speaking about Lauren Laura excuse me, Laura Owens accusing you
2:56
Speaker 3: of fathering her twins, which, if you can clarify to us,
3:02
Speaker 3: you claim that you two never even had intercourse.
3:05
Speaker 2: So what is this?
3:07
Speaker 1: Like?
3:08
Speaker 2: Magical thinking? Like what is the deal?
3:10
Speaker 1: All right?
3:10
Speaker 4: So, I mean, I don't know how much I can say,
3:12
Speaker 4: but I'm very descriptive, and I had to be in
3:15
Speaker 4: order to basically plead mines sence. And so I found that,
3:18
Speaker 4: you know, the truth always prevails. And I've also just
3:20
Speaker 4: found that for me, at least, honesty typically is the
3:22
Speaker 4: best policy, even though can hurt some feelings, even though
3:25
Speaker 4: can run people the wrong way. So we engaged in
3:31
Speaker 4: oral sex. So she performed oral twice on me. The
3:35
Speaker 4: second time she ran to the bathroom immediately afterwards when
3:39
Speaker 4: she told me she was pregnant eleven days later, which
3:42
Speaker 4: apparently in Google he says you can as early as
3:45
Speaker 4: ten days you can find out.
3:46
Speaker 1: I'm sure she googled that's why she hit me on
3:48
Speaker 1: day eleven.
3:50
Speaker 4: But I thought that she potentially split the fluid out
3:54
Speaker 4: into her hands and then either had something on her
3:56
Speaker 4: or just shoved it up via her fingers. So again
4:00
Speaker 4: Google told me there was a small percentage chance that
4:03
Speaker 4: that could create a vile, viable pregnancy if done fast enough.
4:08
Speaker 4: So that was that was my concern was that she
4:10
Speaker 4: trapped me, which is you know, which is the you know,
4:12
Speaker 4: which is why the love Trapped is the name of
4:15
Speaker 4: this podcast. Uh, there's I don't know, most people aren't
4:19
Speaker 4: aware of this term called trapping.
4:22
Speaker 1: Uh, it's very.
4:23
Speaker 4: It's it's mostly prevalent in like a sports circle or
4:28
Speaker 4: entertainment circle, where essentially what happens is an individual latches
4:32
Speaker 4: on to somebody I would say, against their will or
4:36
Speaker 4: without their participation, in order to receive some type of benefit,
4:39
Speaker 4: whether it's financial benefit or whether it's you know, a
4:43
Speaker 4: status they and so an example of this would be
4:46
Speaker 4: it happened to a couple of my teammates back when
4:48
Speaker 4: I played college ball. They became first round draft picks,
4:51
Speaker 4: you know, and so they everyone knew they were going
4:53
Speaker 4: to go make millions of dollars. So a woman comes
4:56
Speaker 4: into their life, they have sex. The woman says she's
4:59
Speaker 4: on birth control, she wasn't. She ends up getting pregnant,
5:03
Speaker 4: and then she goes after his paycheck. That's that happened
5:07
Speaker 4: to a few of my teammates. It's happened to many
5:09
Speaker 4: people previously in that realm, and so I had I
5:13
Speaker 4: was aware that there were women capable of doing something
5:16
Speaker 4: like that, and so that's what I thought she was
5:19
Speaker 4: doing in my situation was more for I think for
5:22
Speaker 4: a career advancement. She wanted to use it because she
5:26
Speaker 4: was a mental health advocate at the time. She had
5:29
Speaker 4: her own mental health podcast, So she was looking to
5:32
Speaker 4: line me up as her next ted X talk because
5:35
Speaker 4: she had done one on a previous victim where she
5:37
Speaker 4: claimed he physically abused her, which was a whole lie,
5:41
Speaker 4: and so she was looking to set me up as
5:44
Speaker 4: her next story, which she had even alluded.
5:46
Speaker 1: To at one point.
5:48
Speaker 3: I Wow, I don't I feel like I have so
5:52
Speaker 3: many things to say about what you just said.
5:55
Speaker 4: It's a lot only scratching the surface. I mean, that's
5:58
Speaker 4: the thing is there's so.
5:59
Speaker 3: Much, not the least of which is be careful, you
6:03
Speaker 3: know when you go to someone who claims they're a
6:05
Speaker 3: mental health expert without really carring that to you. But
6:10
Speaker 3: I do want to say straight away because this is
6:12
Speaker 3: so unsettling to me that what really really gets me
6:17
Speaker 3: about this is that she is creating this narrative that
6:23
Speaker 3: women do these things all the time, you know, and
6:26
Speaker 3: it's so frustrating because she is like then eighth of
6:30
Speaker 3: a percentile of women that do this. You know, generally speaking,
6:35
Speaker 3: we don't women don't do things like this, and so
6:37
Speaker 3: it's like infuriating to me to see that this woman
6:41
Speaker 3: has now she has done this repeatedly. Right, so you
6:45
Speaker 3: come to find out that you were not the first
6:49
Speaker 3: nor the only victim of this woman.
6:51
Speaker 1: Right correct.
6:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's interesting, And I want to touch on
6:55
Speaker 4: this because actually just came from another podcast where they
6:58
Speaker 4: brought up a concern of you know, she's invalidating other women.
7:05
Speaker 4: Now she's setting us back, and and I understand that
7:08
Speaker 4: I know where that's I can see where that's coming
7:10
Speaker 4: from you know, we want, you know, we don't want
7:12
Speaker 4: people to feel, you know, that they could potentially go
7:16
Speaker 4: into a position where it's like, if I happen to
7:18
Speaker 4: share my story, my truth, could I you know, end
7:21
Speaker 4: up then being in a situation like this woman where
7:23
Speaker 4: now she's facing fourteen years or fourteen felony charges in
7:28
Speaker 4: over fifty years in prison. And so I don't want
7:31
Speaker 4: to deter any woman from you know, coming forward and
7:34
Speaker 4: speaking their truth. And that's certainly again we as we
7:39
Speaker 4: talk about even in the podcast, it's not about men
7:42
Speaker 4: versus women.
7:42
Speaker 1: We don't want it to be that.
7:45
Speaker 4: And this again, when I say that this is more
7:47
Speaker 4: prevalent trapping in the sports industry or entertainment, it's still
7:50
Speaker 4: not prevalent. When you take you know, one or a
7:53
Speaker 4: couple of women doing this over with the millions of
7:55
Speaker 4: women that are out there, it's it's it's certainly less
7:59
Speaker 4: than a percent of women that are doing this. Nonetheless,
8:01
Speaker 4: it does exist, but it's just yeah, I mean, it's
8:05
Speaker 4: a delicate subject.
8:07
Speaker 1: I don't believe this.
8:08
Speaker 4: Is going to deter any future victims from coming forward
8:11
Speaker 4: and speaking their truth in fear of potentially having legal
8:16
Speaker 4: action placed upon them.
8:18
Speaker 1: If you if you speak your truth.
8:20
Speaker 4: If Laura was telling the truth, she wouldn't be facing
8:23
Speaker 4: you knowp to fifty years in prison.
8:25
Speaker 1: She wouldn't have made it that far.
8:27
Speaker 4: You know, Again, the county attorney wouldn't have picked up
8:29
Speaker 4: the case and decided to pursue legal action against her
8:32
Speaker 4: she was telling the truth. You know, if she had
8:35
Speaker 4: an actual viable paternity test to present and a viable child,
8:39
Speaker 4: and there was a DNA test done, somebody would have
8:42
Speaker 4: come back as the father. She would have never been
8:45
Speaker 4: in a situation. I could have tried to get her
8:46
Speaker 4: for defamation if it wasn't my child. Sure, but again,
8:50
Speaker 4: you shouldn't say that this is this is this this
8:53
Speaker 4: man is the child or sorry as the father of
8:56
Speaker 4: the children or child.
8:57
Speaker 1: Unless you know so.
8:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course there's a risk you could get hit
9:00
Speaker 4: with defamation if you're wrong.
9:02
Speaker 1: But I think this is where it's like.
9:03
Speaker 4: You know, don't if it's your truth, and speak it
9:06
Speaker 4: and you'll be you know, the truth will prevail. So
9:10
Speaker 4: that's that's the message is I don't think this is
9:12
Speaker 4: I hope. I don't want it to deter other women.
9:14
Speaker 4: I don't think it discredits them. I just think it's
9:16
Speaker 4: that matter of like, hey, if you're I think if anything,
9:19
Speaker 4: it deters women that are thinking they may want to
9:22
Speaker 4: do this.
9:22
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I hope.
9:24
Speaker 3: I mean, because it seems very clear she is not
9:28
Speaker 3: the victim.
9:30
Speaker 1: I mean, it's there's no there is really no.
9:34
Speaker 4: It's not for debate. I mean, it's at this point,
9:36
Speaker 4: she's been caught in so many lives. She's been caught
9:38
Speaker 4: with medical fraud. She's been caught admitting to medical fraud.
9:41
Speaker 4: She's forged. Yeah, these documents, there's doctor appointments that she
9:45
Speaker 4: never showed up to. She's not had a single expert
9:48
Speaker 4: that's been able to like stand behind her, besides one
9:50
Speaker 4: guy that claimed he was that came.
9:51
Speaker 1: Into court, but he was a fraud if you asked me.
9:55
Speaker 4: She has not all these doctors she claims she saw,
9:57
Speaker 4: she never did so all the I mean, it's it's
10:00
Speaker 4: a pile of just evidence against her. And yeah, I
10:05
Speaker 4: do think though that the county attorney is looking to
10:07
Speaker 4: make a statement and and and she should, you know,
10:10
Speaker 4: Rachel Mitchell should, because the legal system shouldn't be played
10:14
Speaker 4: around with this woman has wasted so many resources, police
10:18
Speaker 4: resources with all of her phone calls having them show
10:20
Speaker 4: up to the house and just taking up wasting time
10:24
Speaker 4: and energy, and so I in order for a judicial
10:28
Speaker 4: system to be taken seriously, there needs to be punishment
10:31
Speaker 4: for when you abuse.
10:32
Speaker 1: The system, and that's what she's done.
10:34
Speaker 4: So I do think that again, like this is something
10:37
Speaker 4: where it needs's a statement needs to be made, because
10:40
Speaker 4: if she is let off with no penalties, this will
10:44
Speaker 4: this will actually encourage other people to do something similar.
10:47
Speaker 3: Sure, so she I read that, Well, first I want
10:51
Speaker 3: to ask, was there a moment when you realized, oh,
10:54
Speaker 3: this is not going away quickly? And was that when
10:58
Speaker 3: I read that she proposed to you that she would
11:02
Speaker 3: get rid of the child, the pregnancy, excuse me, the
11:06
Speaker 3: pregnancy if.
11:06
Speaker 2: You agreed to a dating contract of some kind. Is
11:09
Speaker 2: that accurate?
11:10
Speaker 1: Yeah?
11:11
Speaker 4: She stated first it was two weeks, and then you know,
11:14
Speaker 4: in her desperation she took it down to one. But
11:17
Speaker 4: she essentially said, if you date me, I'll have an abortion,
11:20
Speaker 4: but if you don't date me, I'm having the child.
11:21
Speaker 2: Who Yeah, and what was your response. Did she say
11:24
Speaker 2: this on the phone or was this an email or
11:28
Speaker 2: phone call?
11:28
Speaker 4: Then once I blocked her, it was an email, and
11:32
Speaker 4: I did try to hash things out in person with her.
11:35
Speaker 4: So I had her come over to talk through things
11:38
Speaker 4: at one point.
11:40
Speaker 1: But to answer your question.
11:42
Speaker 4: When I knew that it wasn't going to go away,
11:46
Speaker 4: it was.
11:47
Speaker 1: It was after she said she was pregnant.
11:50
Speaker 4: I still thought maybe she would just give it up
11:52
Speaker 4: once I blocked her. I knew it wasn't going away
11:56
Speaker 4: once she sent me another pattern or another pregnancy test.
12:01
Speaker 4: And so after she had sent the first one saying
12:04
Speaker 4: I'm pregnant, she said another one and said I'm here
12:06
Speaker 4: at the doctor and here's the doctor notes. And I'm like, okay, Wow,
12:10
Speaker 4: she's really really moving forward with us. She's trying to
12:13
Speaker 4: convince me through documentation. And that's where that, along with
12:20
Speaker 4: five sixty messages a day, she never stopped.
12:24
Speaker 1: She was just continuously trying to.
12:28
Speaker 4: Just just be in my head at all times with
12:30
Speaker 4: new information and threatening to sue me for the real
12:36
Speaker 4: estate transactions because we originally she reached out for real estate.
12:40
Speaker 2: Right, that's what. So she wanted to buy a house
12:42
Speaker 2: from you?
12:43
Speaker 1: Is that?
12:44
Speaker 4: So she said, yeah, she was looking to purchase investment
12:48
Speaker 4: properties turn them into rentals. And so she had claimed
12:52
Speaker 4: that she was trying to get in contact with my brokerage,
12:54
Speaker 4: but couldn't get a hold of anybody, and so she
12:57
Speaker 4: wanted to work with us.
12:58
Speaker 1: So that was how she reached out.
13:01
Speaker 4: And I was naive and thought, hey, you know, just
13:03
Speaker 4: I just got my license and I came from reality television,
13:05
Speaker 4: so this makes sense. People are going to reach out
13:07
Speaker 4: to me, like the business is going to come to me,
13:10
Speaker 4: which is really nice. And so we exchanged information and
13:14
Speaker 4: then yeah, just one night it led to me crossing
13:17
Speaker 4: professional boundaries. I had taken a marijuana edible and she
13:22
Speaker 4: had sent me. I considered it a provocative photo. She
13:25
Speaker 4: wasn't like in like her you know, like underwear or
13:28
Speaker 4: anything or lingerie. She was just wearing it, had tight
13:31
Speaker 4: spandex on standing next to a horse. And so we
13:34
Speaker 4: talked about that as well on the podcast, as far
13:37
Speaker 4: as I mean, the host even gives me trouble for it.
13:40
Speaker 4: She's like, I can't believe that's all it took.
13:42
Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, I was going to ask like
13:46
Speaker 2: was it worth it?
13:47
Speaker 1: Like no, not, no, of course it wasn't.
13:50
Speaker 3: No.
13:50
Speaker 4: I would go back, and I would I would. I
13:52
Speaker 4: would be like, I'll take it all back. The two
13:54
Speaker 4: blowjobs weren't worth it. Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy,
13:58
Speaker 4: how but ultimately was it We're actually, you know, I say,
14:01
Speaker 4: is it worth it? Yes, but not because for me,
14:06
Speaker 4: but because of the other victims, so as people will
14:10
Speaker 4: hear in this podcast. So really, what it does is
14:13
Speaker 4: it places you in the shoes of the victims. And
14:15
Speaker 4: first it's you know, it's in my shoes, and then
14:18
Speaker 4: as we go farther along into the series, you start
14:21
Speaker 4: to hear that there's others and you find out that
14:23
Speaker 4: she's been doing this for ten plus years. You find
14:26
Speaker 4: out that her family are all accomplices, and it gets
14:31
Speaker 4: very dark, and so why it's.
14:34
Speaker 1: Been worth it?
14:35
Speaker 4: Actually, I have to step back on that statement, is yes,
14:38
Speaker 4: it is worth it because justice is being served for
14:41
Speaker 4: those previous victims that never received it.
14:44
Speaker 1: Right that essentially I have been fighting her and.
14:49
Speaker 4: Lost, you know, really they lost in court and or
14:53
Speaker 4: outside of court, and she beat them up and then
14:56
Speaker 4: placed restraining auras on them.
14:58
Speaker 2: And any other victims on the there are men.
15:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I got a restraining order against me.
15:04
Speaker 4: I didn't realize how easy it is to get a
15:05
Speaker 4: restraining order with no factual evidence, which she had none,
15:09
Speaker 4: and yet she got a straining order on me.
15:11
Speaker 3: And so you know, it's like a systematic manipulation, right,
15:14
Speaker 3: like the step by step where it makes it look
15:16
Speaker 3: like it's you, and then it's by the time you're trying.
15:20
Speaker 2: To catch us, like you're trying to play catch up
15:22
Speaker 2: the whole time.
15:23
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just she was just again and she's never
15:26
Speaker 4: held an actual job outside her parents supporting her, and
15:31
Speaker 4: so she does this full time. I mean, she legitimly
15:34
Speaker 4: was perfecting her craft. And so again, like as the
15:38
Speaker 4: series goes on, you'll hear about the other victims and
15:40
Speaker 4: you'll start hearing, you know, the patterns, realizing that this
15:44
Speaker 4: is one big, big, old orchestrated just a bout of
15:48
Speaker 4: madness that's been yep, that's been over time refined, and
15:52
Speaker 4: it goes deeper than again, like than just her.
15:54
Speaker 2: So sure, yeah, so you said the family or accomplices.
15:58
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? So she had a
16:00
Speaker 2: famous father, certainly in.
16:01
Speaker 3: The Bay area, who is a well known what would
16:06
Speaker 3: we call his commentator, radio host, radio host, radio host,
16:11
Speaker 3: who I live in San Francisco, and so I wasn't
16:15
Speaker 3: aware of this person, but everyone else on the planet
16:18
Speaker 3: in this area was. So tell me what do you
16:21
Speaker 3: mean by that about them being accomplices.
16:25
Speaker 1: Yeah.
16:25
Speaker 4: So again, as the stories of the other victims are shared,
16:29
Speaker 4: you know, there's there there were early conversations we're talking
16:32
Speaker 4: back in twenty sixteen where you know, her father had
16:36
Speaker 4: involvement talking directly to a victim and basically saying that
16:42
Speaker 4: he's aware of, you know, his daughter and what she's
16:46
Speaker 4: doing and oh wow.
16:47
Speaker 1: And then you know, I.
16:49
Speaker 4: Spoke directly to her mother on the phone, and it
16:54
Speaker 4: was as if I was speaking to Laura.
16:56
Speaker 1: It was the all. It was almost as if I
16:59
Speaker 1: was talking to the puppet master.
17:00
Speaker 4: I mean, it was the oh wow, well everything that
17:03
Speaker 4: I thought it was going to be a conversation, you know,
17:05
Speaker 4: where I talked to a mother and she goes, oh
17:06
Speaker 4: my gosh, I didn't know my daughter was doing this. Yeah,
17:09
Speaker 4: I don't want her to, you know, let me talk
17:11
Speaker 4: with her, talk some sense into her. But no, it
17:12
Speaker 4: was completely there was the opposite. She said, I can't
17:16
Speaker 4: you know you impregnated.
17:17
Speaker 1: My daughter, and so I, oh my god, it's embarrassing.
17:20
Speaker 4: Or you should be disappointed that you won't step up
17:22
Speaker 4: to the plate as a man and give her a chance.
17:38
Speaker 3: So do you think that the parents just believed her.
17:40
Speaker 3: Do you think that she's mentally ill or she's a criminal.
17:44
Speaker 1: No, I think she's a criminal.
17:45
Speaker 4: I think she's someone that's never had, ever had to
17:48
Speaker 4: face accountability.
17:50
Speaker 1: This is a.
17:50
Speaker 4: Family that, you know, they were millionaires at one point
17:53
Speaker 4: in their life. They had success in multiple realms financial,
17:57
Speaker 4: they had status, and so I believe they were in
18:01
Speaker 4: a bracket where they could talk their way or pay
18:03
Speaker 4: their way out of things. And they raised their their
18:06
Speaker 4: children in that manner. And so you know, Laura could,
18:10
Speaker 4: from what I've heard, could get out of anything at
18:13
Speaker 4: a young age. And and you know, and they were litigious.
18:15
Speaker 4: They were willing to you know, impress you know, lawsuits
18:19
Speaker 4: on people, and so I just at least just take
18:22
Speaker 4: them to court or threaten to sue. And and you know,
18:25
Speaker 4: when you when you grow up as a child and
18:27
Speaker 4: you see that, you think, okay, well we're invincible. And
18:30
Speaker 4: so I believe that's what happened. Laura felt she was invincible.
18:34
Speaker 4: She's been living with her parents all of her life.
18:35
Speaker 4: She still lives in their guest home, so she's never
18:38
Speaker 4: been independent. So you have someone that feels that she's invincible.
18:43
Speaker 4: And she and she said she said that to me.
18:45
Speaker 4: You know, she's sent me emails saying, you know, I
18:47
Speaker 4: have an unlimited budget to sue you, and you know
18:50
Speaker 4: I will like insinuating that there was no way she
18:54
Speaker 4: could fail or lose. So some of that's never faced accountability.
18:58
Speaker 1: This is what they would like.
18:59
Speaker 2: Right, this is what This is what they do.
19:02
Speaker 3: Don't get me started on accountability because I have like
19:05
Speaker 3: a real.
19:07
Speaker 2: Be in my bonnet about it. So I'm with you
19:10
Speaker 2: on that.
19:12
Speaker 1: I'm really big with accountability.
19:14
Speaker 4: I mean, I you know, coming off Fauty television, I
19:17
Speaker 4: had to take accountability for my own actions and so
19:21
Speaker 4: you know, I get it. The ego doesn't want you
19:23
Speaker 4: to take first. You want to point the finger. But
19:27
Speaker 4: you know, this is a thing where even Laura, she said,
19:29
Speaker 4: now that you know I we've caused all of this,
19:32
Speaker 4: and it's like, no, you have. You're the reason why
19:34
Speaker 4: all this exists, and you're the reason why you now
19:37
Speaker 4: have fourteen felony charges that are about to be placed
19:40
Speaker 4: upon you and may you got fifty plus years of
19:42
Speaker 4: prison time that you're looking at, you know, and this
19:46
Speaker 4: is all her doing, you know, So it's nobody else's.
19:48
Speaker 4: It's like, Laura, if you decided that you just would
19:51
Speaker 4: have never faked a pregnancy, then we wouldn't be here today.
19:55
Speaker 1: And yeah, I gave her an out.
19:57
Speaker 4: I sent her a contract all of like a never
20:00
Speaker 4: speak again clause about this, where I was like, hey,
20:02
Speaker 4: before she went public, I was like, if you just
20:04
Speaker 4: sign this document stating you were never pregnant by me
20:06
Speaker 4: and that you'll never bring it up. But again, you'll
20:08
Speaker 4: never harass me, like I will act as this never happened. Right,
20:12
Speaker 4: So I sent that to her and she's sent back,
20:14
Speaker 4: you know, I can't believe that you would send this,
20:16
Speaker 4: And so.
20:17
Speaker 1: Again she she believed that.
20:20
Speaker 4: She was invincible, and she believed she could lie her
20:23
Speaker 4: way out of it, and she got wrapped up in
20:25
Speaker 4: her own lives. And that's where, you know, with the
20:28
Speaker 4: help of my incredible legal team, we were able to
20:31
Speaker 4: pick apart all these things she had said, and they're
20:34
Speaker 4: all documented. I mean everything was was, you know, on
20:37
Speaker 4: email or text. So when you hear this podcast, I
20:40
Speaker 4: mean you're going to hear we have a voice actress
20:43
Speaker 4: that you know that is really is you know, is
20:47
Speaker 4: reading through these texts, and I mean it's it's it's yeah,
20:51
Speaker 4: it's insidious. I mean, it's it's they picked a great voice,
20:54
Speaker 4: a voice actions she sounds crazy, which is what Laura is,
20:57
Speaker 4: and so it's like, you know, it's but it really
21:00
Speaker 4: puts you into that position where it's like, you know,
21:02
Speaker 4: these are the messages that.
21:04
Speaker 1: Actually were being sent.
21:05
Speaker 4: This is what it would feel like to be someone
21:08
Speaker 4: that's that's a target of a heinous act like what
21:11
Speaker 4: Laura does.
21:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so five hundred emails and texts, I
21:16
Speaker 3: mean that's a very big number.
21:19
Speaker 2: Did you read all of them?
21:21
Speaker 1: Yeah?
21:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean because I was reading them out of curiosity,
21:27
Speaker 4: but I was also reading them to understand her next
21:30
Speaker 4: move because I had her in a block folder, but
21:33
Speaker 4: she had on read receipts, so anytime I opened them,
21:37
Speaker 4: she knew I was reading them. But I you know
21:40
Speaker 4: that when I decided at first I'm not going to
21:42
Speaker 4: read them, it didn't stop the emails from coming. And
21:45
Speaker 4: so when I wasn't reading the emails, she would send
21:48
Speaker 4: over a text message, and when I'd blocked that, she
21:51
Speaker 4: would use I was I believe she was using Google
21:53
Speaker 4: Voice and so she was just creating a new phone number.
21:57
Speaker 4: So she texted me from over thirteen different and phone
22:00
Speaker 4: numbers so I couldn't avoid you know, those messages from
22:04
Speaker 4: coming through. I also realized that if I wasn't reading
22:06
Speaker 4: her emails, she'd start sending more messages to my family
22:10
Speaker 4: members or in organizations I was working with. So if
22:15
Speaker 4: I was in contact with her, then she was less
22:19
Speaker 4: in contact with people on the outside, right, And that's
22:22
Speaker 4: where I was trying to keep it under wraps. And
22:25
Speaker 4: I was like, look, I don't want her, you know,
22:26
Speaker 4: interacting with people on the outside because they're not aware
22:29
Speaker 4: of this story. And I mean again, they're going to
22:33
Speaker 4: be like, what's going on? You know, So I was
22:35
Speaker 4: trying to keep it quiet.
22:37
Speaker 3: And people like this thrive on the connection with you, right,
22:42
Speaker 3: Like it has to keep going. So if you could,
22:45
Speaker 3: I totally understand what you're saying, Like, if you could
22:48
Speaker 3: contain it to just between the two of you, it
22:50
Speaker 3: would stop spreading.
22:52
Speaker 1: Like well, that's what it was.
22:53
Speaker 4: Was how I was then trying to play chess with her,
22:57
Speaker 4: where I was trying to get ahead of her at
23:01
Speaker 4: her game, and so something I discussed on the podcast
23:04
Speaker 4: as I had her come over, because I said I
23:07
Speaker 4: wanted to talk with her and see if we could
23:08
Speaker 4: just you know, just like let's just talk and let's
23:10
Speaker 4: be reasonable and see if we can come to a
23:12
Speaker 4: solution here. But I was just trying to get her
23:15
Speaker 4: to come over to take an attornity or a pregnancy test.
23:19
Speaker 4: But when she showed up, she already had a pregnancy
23:21
Speaker 4: test ready to go, and she was ready to take
23:23
Speaker 4: the test as well, and and and so again we
23:26
Speaker 4: talked as as to why why would she take a
23:29
Speaker 4: pregnancy test?
23:30
Speaker 2: Did she take it there on the spot?
23:32
Speaker 4: She did and it came back positive. So again this
23:36
Speaker 4: and it all unravels. But this is where, like what
23:39
Speaker 4: I've been really impressed by is the production of the podcast.
23:43
Speaker 4: I first, when they brought it to me, I wasn't
23:45
Speaker 4: too excited because I'm like, okay, podcast is a podcast,
23:48
Speaker 4: but I've already talked on this a million times. But
23:51
Speaker 4: you know what, what what's really incredible about this is
23:53
Speaker 4: it's storytelling. So it's you know, there's voice actresses, there's
23:57
Speaker 4: her voice, there's my story, there's other stories, and so
23:59
Speaker 4: it takes it puts you into our shoes, and it
24:03
Speaker 4: takes you through all the emotions as well. So early on,
24:07
Speaker 4: you know you go wait, wait, hold.
24:09
Speaker 2: On, how yeah, wait hold on?
24:10
Speaker 3: And yeah speaking of weight, hold on, how did it
24:13
Speaker 3: come back positive.
24:14
Speaker 2: The pregnancy test and what did you What was your
24:16
Speaker 2: response when you saw it?
24:18
Speaker 4: Well, it came back positive because if we jump into
24:22
Speaker 4: the details a little bit, there's you know, she was
24:26
Speaker 4: testing positive. Pregnancy test is testing for hCG, so you
24:30
Speaker 4: know it's a pregnancy hormone. So the question then became,
24:33
Speaker 4: you know, is she actually pregnant or is she manipulating
24:36
Speaker 4: hCG levels in her body? And so you know, there
24:41
Speaker 4: we've we've obviously uncovered what that is. Now I guess
24:44
Speaker 4: I'll tease that so when people listen, we do figure
24:49
Speaker 4: out how she was able to manipulate those levels.
24:52
Speaker 2: Oh you do?
24:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that.
24:54
Speaker 2: You've gotten like an education in science. And this has
24:57
Speaker 2: been all.
24:58
Speaker 4: Well, I had to google a lot of this, and
25:01
Speaker 4: you know, because I was trying to uncover any holes
25:05
Speaker 4: in her you know, in her story, because I was
25:09
Speaker 4: so desperately wanting it to not be true. You know,
25:12
Speaker 4: I thought, well, maybe she did successfully trap me, but
25:15
Speaker 4: so far she's not giving me any concrete evidence. And
25:18
Speaker 4: what she would send me, I would see pixelation on
25:21
Speaker 4: the images, so it looked like things were photoshopped, and
25:24
Speaker 4: so it was this kind of cat and mouse game
25:26
Speaker 4: of like, how do I, you know, get ahead of
25:28
Speaker 4: her and catch her in an act where I can
25:30
Speaker 4: just disprove this right now. But because I wasn't her
25:34
Speaker 4: first victim, uh, you know, she had experience and I didn't. Obviously,
25:39
Speaker 4: this was my first go round in a situation like this.
25:41
Speaker 4: I was, you know, whereas she was on you know
25:44
Speaker 4: number four, at least you know where we yeah.
25:49
Speaker 2: We know.
25:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, so she was more skilled and she as again,
25:52
Speaker 4: as in the podcast, it will show like previous victims,
25:56
Speaker 4: she was learning from her own craft and not make
26:00
Speaker 4: the same mistakes so the next time around she wouldn't
26:02
Speaker 4: get caught in the same lives.
26:05
Speaker 3: It's like Sandra Bullock in Ocean's Eight. Yeah, she's like
26:08
Speaker 3: learning the whole time she's incarcerated.
26:10
Speaker 4: And I wonder if you know she took inspiration from
26:13
Speaker 4: a movie or something along those lines, because yeah, it
26:16
Speaker 4: was very well crafted. I mean, she's smart. She could
26:20
Speaker 4: speak on the medical jargon. She knew a lot about
26:22
Speaker 4: real estate. She's a very intelligent person, which is scary
26:27
Speaker 4: because that's where yeah, you know, she's able to manipulate
26:31
Speaker 4: in gaslight, and that's her tactic. As I'm going to,
26:34
Speaker 4: you know, overwhelm me, but I'm going to give you
26:36
Speaker 4: evidence and I'm gonna be able to put this together.
26:38
Speaker 1: It's not sloppy.
26:40
Speaker 4: I mean, she she did a pretty good job of
26:42
Speaker 4: selling a narrative. I just, you know, thankfully again she
26:47
Speaker 4: couldn't produce concrete evidence because she didn't have any, but
26:50
Speaker 4: she was able to definitely pull me along to her.
26:53
Speaker 1: I had. I definitely considered my insanity. I mean I
26:55
Speaker 1: had to. I bet.
26:56
Speaker 3: How who did you lean on during this time? Were
26:58
Speaker 3: you talking to friends about this or family?
27:01
Speaker 4: Like?
27:01
Speaker 2: How did you take care of your mental state?
27:05
Speaker 1: Yeah? Mainly my family?
27:07
Speaker 4: And you know, I got a great bit of advice
27:11
Speaker 4: from my dad. One day he called me after she
27:14
Speaker 4: had emailed my family. So I obviously had to tell
27:17
Speaker 4: them and bring it to light. And so I told them.
27:21
Speaker 4: And one day my dad, you know, called me and
27:24
Speaker 4: he was just like, just want to check in and
27:25
Speaker 4: see how you're doing. And I said, this is probably
27:28
Speaker 4: like less than a month into this whole scenario.
27:30
Speaker 1: And I said, Dad, I'll be honest with.
27:32
Speaker 4: You, I have no energy or you know, drive to
27:34
Speaker 4: do anything like I am just laying in my bed
27:38
Speaker 4: staring up at the ceiling like I can't even I can.
27:40
Speaker 1: I'm doing my job, you know, I work from home.
27:43
Speaker 4: I do the bare minimum, and then the rest of
27:45
Speaker 4: the day I just stare up at the ceiling and wonder,
27:47
Speaker 4: like how bad my life is going to be? You know,
27:50
Speaker 4: if this woman actually is pregnant, she's going to destroy
27:52
Speaker 4: my life. You know, I co parenting with this woman.
27:55
Speaker 4: She's a monster, you know. And so I was staring
27:58
Speaker 4: at the ceiling and I was like, I can't function.
28:00
Speaker 4: And he said, well, Clayton, he said, if she is
28:04
Speaker 4: in fact pregnant, your life will not change for another
28:08
Speaker 4: eight months. So you know, you're month then. But all
28:11
Speaker 4: you can do is live in the present moment right now.
28:13
Speaker 4: You never know what could happen. She could decide she
28:16
Speaker 4: actually doesn't want to move forward with this, if she
28:17
Speaker 4: is actually pregnant, she could have an abortion, she could
28:20
Speaker 4: have a miscarriage, you.
28:21
Speaker 1: Know, or she could have the child.
28:23
Speaker 4: But whatever the situation, you know, scenario is, it's not
28:26
Speaker 4: truth and it's not something you have to respond to
28:29
Speaker 4: until you know, eight more months from now, when she
28:31
Speaker 4: delivers the baby. And then at that point it's real,
28:33
Speaker 4: and at that point you can respond to whatever the
28:36
Speaker 4: actual scenario is. But you sitting here looking up at
28:39
Speaker 4: the ceiling and wonder in thinking worst case.
28:41
Speaker 1: Scenario, it may never present.
28:44
Speaker 4: And that was incredible advice because he was right, because
28:47
Speaker 4: I mean because he said that a month then before
28:49
Speaker 4: we were able to obviously disprove completely, and before she
28:52
Speaker 4: even went public, and when I was still questioning, is
28:55
Speaker 4: she like did she trap me?
28:56
Speaker 1: Did she not?
28:57
Speaker 4: But but yeah, I mean obviously the scenario that prevail
29:00
Speaker 4: was everything was made up and here we are. So
29:02
Speaker 4: you know, in that moment, I learned a really valuable
29:04
Speaker 4: lesson to just live in the present moment and just
29:07
Speaker 4: only respond to what's actually real.
29:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, were you able to date at all during this time?
29:16
Speaker 1: It made dating really hard because was it public?
29:19
Speaker 2: Yet at this point she made it public first? Is
29:22
Speaker 2: that right?
29:22
Speaker 1: Get public?
29:23
Speaker 4: If I remember, it was in September of twenty twenty three,
29:26
Speaker 4: so I met her in May and I was talking
29:31
Speaker 4: to somebody right around the time that I met Laura.
29:34
Speaker 1: I just started talking to this woman.
29:36
Speaker 4: Well it started to get more serious, so about a
29:39
Speaker 4: it was like a few weeks after she said she
29:41
Speaker 4: was pregnant. Things were getting serious with this woman, this
29:45
Speaker 4: other woman, and so I ended up, you know, basically
29:49
Speaker 4: bringing it up to her and saying, hey, you know,
29:51
Speaker 4: you need to be aware of this because things are
29:54
Speaker 4: getting serious between us and this is something that's going on.
29:58
Speaker 4: And I don't believe she's pregnant, but like I'm not
30:00
Speaker 4: fully certain, but she's certainly.
30:02
Speaker 1: Being a nuisance. Uh.
30:04
Speaker 4: And I said, so I want you to know this
30:06
Speaker 4: just so you understand what you might be getting into.
30:10
Speaker 4: And so she said, hey, thank you for telling me ultimately,
30:15
Speaker 4: and I really like you, but it's early on and like,
30:17
Speaker 4: I don't want to be involved in.
30:19
Speaker 1: This in any capacity. So I said, I understand, and
30:22
Speaker 1: that was the end of it.
30:23
Speaker 4: So yeah, it definitely like after that that individual I
30:27
Speaker 4: didn't try to date because I just was like, look,
30:30
Speaker 4: this will be every single woman and why not you know.
30:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, did it affect your
30:35
Speaker 3: trust in other women and women in general?
30:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, not as much as people might have thought it would,
30:41
Speaker 4: but it has at times. I mean there have been
30:44
Speaker 4: multiple Like it has it stopped me and maybe made
30:47
Speaker 4: me celibate? No, Like I think this is where like,
30:49
Speaker 4: you know, the male brain under with testosterone and like
30:52
Speaker 4: our aur you are these these animal brains of ours
30:55
Speaker 4: like this, sometimes we just shift into one gear and
30:57
Speaker 4: we don't think about rationally on the other side until
31:01
Speaker 4: we have that moment of clarity afterwards, and then we go,
31:04
Speaker 4: I need to do that right like that, That's when
31:07
Speaker 4: those moments would hit where I was, That's where I
31:09
Speaker 4: would panic.
31:10
Speaker 1: I'd be like Clayton, like you.
31:11
Speaker 4: Could find yourself right back in this scenario, like because
31:14
Speaker 4: is Laura was normal until she wasn't? Like I talk
31:18
Speaker 4: about it in the podcast, but there was a point
31:20
Speaker 4: at which like she just snapped.
31:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was that moment? What made you?
31:25
Speaker 3: Because I read that there that she I'm paraphrasing, but
31:29
Speaker 3: something like she her response her reaction to you saying,
31:34
Speaker 3: you know, maybe this was a mistake pretty early on
31:38
Speaker 3: that she her reaction was really extreme and that made
31:41
Speaker 3: you not want to continue any kind of relationship with her.
31:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'll never forget it was, you know,
31:48
Speaker 4: the next day, after we had hooked up, and she
31:53
Speaker 4: was hoping that we could continue to talk and date,
31:55
Speaker 4: and I told her, Hey, that was the one time
31:58
Speaker 4: thing and I'm not interested for suing this further. She
32:02
Speaker 4: began to cry, and that's when I knew something was
32:05
Speaker 4: off because I had just met this woman. So I'm like,
32:07
Speaker 4: this woman's now hysterically crying and begging for me to
32:10
Speaker 4: date her. And I've only talked to this woman for
32:13
Speaker 4: like five days, you know, So that was the first
32:17
Speaker 4: time in the extreme emotion. But then when I finally said,
32:19
Speaker 4: you know, no means no, stop asking me to date you,
32:22
Speaker 4: because I became agitated when she kept begging and I
32:25
Speaker 4: was like, you're not listening and hearing me like I
32:28
Speaker 4: and so I finally just said no means no, stop
32:31
Speaker 4: asking me to date you. And that moment is when
32:35
Speaker 4: her face went stone cold and she wiped the tears
32:38
Speaker 4: and Gabe said, all right, I understand, have.
32:41
Speaker 1: A great day.
32:41
Speaker 2: And is that when she went to the Sun and
32:43
Speaker 2: gave the interview.
32:44
Speaker 4: No, that was just when before she even said she
32:46
Speaker 4: was pregnant. But that's when I felt in that moment,
32:49
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm dealing with a very dark energy. I mean,
32:53
Speaker 4: her eyes didn't go all black, but it felt that way.
32:55
Speaker 4: When she said no, I get it, have a great day.
32:58
Speaker 4: I had chills over my body because it's her eyes
33:02
Speaker 4: glossed over like I the lights went off, and it's
33:05
Speaker 4: like something overtook her.
33:07
Speaker 1: Is what it felt like.
33:09
Speaker 4: You know, I'm very spiritual, and I just feel like
33:11
Speaker 4: something some dark energy in that moment.
33:14
Speaker 1: I could see it in her eyes.
33:15
Speaker 4: It's like as if just the glass went over, and
33:17
Speaker 4: it was like, Okay, you've just slipped the switch and
33:20
Speaker 4: you're my next victim.
33:21
Speaker 1: And that's that's what, ultimately, I mean I felt.
33:24
Speaker 4: And then I mean, yeah, my intuition was right, because
33:26
Speaker 4: then you know, eleven days later, she's sending me a
33:29
Speaker 4: positive pregnancy test and claiming that you know that I'm
33:32
Speaker 4: the father.
33:46
Speaker 3: Two things, How how did it feel when you did
33:51
Speaker 3: you when you read the Sun article when that came out?
33:55
Speaker 2: How how did that feel to you?
33:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was lot.
34:00
Speaker 4: She knew that I was filming a pickleball reality TV
34:04
Speaker 4: show locally, so it was my first hosting gig, and
34:07
Speaker 4: she knew that that was the first day that I
34:09
Speaker 4: was hosting, so she lined it up the release of
34:13
Speaker 4: the article with my first day as a host. So
34:17
Speaker 4: I'm in this, you know, pickleball venue, and I'm reciting
34:21
Speaker 4: my lines and I knew the article was already coming
34:24
Speaker 4: because I had the writer already texting me telling me, hey,
34:28
Speaker 4: I'll give you a heads up.
34:29
Speaker 1: I'm releasing this in the next few hours.
34:32
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
34:32
Speaker 4: And so I knew the article was coming and then
34:34
Speaker 4: she said, hey, I'm about to post it.
34:37
Speaker 1: And I was at the time, I was recording.
34:39
Speaker 4: But I then went to the locker room afterwards and
34:42
Speaker 4: I opened my phone up and boom it's She's like.
34:44
Speaker 1: Hey, it's posted.
34:46
Speaker 4: And I just sat there and put my head into
34:48
Speaker 4: my hands and I just took probably three minutes of silence,
34:54
Speaker 4: and then I went straight to the owner of the
34:57
Speaker 4: facility that was orchestrating this whole show, and I said, hey,
35:01
Speaker 4: I need to talk to you.
35:02
Speaker 1: It's really serious.
35:04
Speaker 4: And he said okay, he says, do I need to
35:06
Speaker 4: get everybody else? I said, yes, you need to get
35:09
Speaker 4: everyone that's involved in this from a production standpoint, at.
35:12
Speaker 1: Least the decision makers.
35:14
Speaker 4: So I brought it to them and I told them
35:17
Speaker 4: the scenario, and ultimately they kept me on because they said,
35:21
Speaker 4: you know, they brought They said, okay, you can leave
35:23
Speaker 4: the room. And then after like five minutes they said, hey,
35:25
Speaker 4: come back in the room and they said, we just
35:27
Speaker 4: want to know are you telling the truth? I said,
35:30
Speaker 4: one thousand percent, I'm telling the truth. This one was
35:32
Speaker 4: making it all up and they said, okay, then we're
35:33
Speaker 4: going to stick with you.
35:35
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you.
35:37
Speaker 3: You know, you said this a couple of times already,
35:39
Speaker 3: and I think that you are exemplifying it about being accountable,
35:43
Speaker 3: and there's something incredibly valuable about meeting things head on
35:49
Speaker 3: and as early and as quickly as possible.
35:53
Speaker 2: And I just think there's a lot of merit to that, and.
35:58
Speaker 1: So bravo, no thank you.
35:59
Speaker 4: I've I just feel that again, it's like, if I've
36:03
Speaker 4: made mistakes, then I want to own up to them,
36:07
Speaker 4: you know, And certainly it takes two to tango. I mean,
36:10
Speaker 4: I should have never crossed the professional boundary that I
36:13
Speaker 4: did originally with a client, and so I understand that, like,
36:17
Speaker 4: had I just you know, had a hard and fast rule,
36:20
Speaker 4: this would have been all avoidable. But you know again,
36:24
Speaker 4: I'm like, look, I'm human, and the whole point of
36:26
Speaker 4: this is more just to share my story and hopes
36:30
Speaker 4: that it, you know, it deters other people from doing
36:32
Speaker 4: something similar or also it maybe leads to other people
36:35
Speaker 4: getting justice, which it will.
36:38
Speaker 1: It's not just my.
36:38
Speaker 4: Story, you know, there's at least three other victims, and
36:42
Speaker 4: so they're receiving justice as well.
36:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, at what point did you realize that there were
36:48
Speaker 2: other victims?
36:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, I found out when she went public, less than
36:52
Speaker 4: twenty four hours. It was probably honestly, when she went public,
36:55
Speaker 4: it was like two hours later. I got a DM
36:58
Speaker 4: from now wife of the other victim, and she said,
37:02
Speaker 4: you need to look into this court case.
37:04
Speaker 1: You're not the only one.
37:06
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So she really created her own demise.
37:09
Speaker 2: I mean she.
37:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, her going public, I'll never forget because the reporter
37:15
Speaker 4: she said, maybe her going public will be the best
37:17
Speaker 4: thing that ever happened to you, And I said, I said, yeah, sure, whatever,
37:20
Speaker 4: I said, just have I was pissed. I'm like, yeah,
37:22
Speaker 4: you can fee me your bullshit because you're just trying
37:24
Speaker 4: to justify you released this article, but you don't care
37:27
Speaker 4: about me and my well being. But she was right,
37:31
Speaker 4: you know she it definitely led to her demise. It
37:34
Speaker 4: was the best thing she could have done, was go public,
37:36
Speaker 4: because it instantly switched the narrative the second.
37:38
Speaker 1: That she went public.
37:41
Speaker 4: I then went and found the court case the next day,
37:43
Speaker 4: and then I posted about it online to lead people to.
37:48
Speaker 1: The case.
37:49
Speaker 4: I just all I said was, hey, there's there's another
37:51
Speaker 4: case against the same individual in the Phoenix court system.
37:55
Speaker 4: And then, you know, because that was the truth, and
37:57
Speaker 4: then people went racing to go pull dig up the
37:59
Speaker 4: information and that was it.
38:01
Speaker 2: And so did you feel supported by the Bachelor Nation
38:06
Speaker 2: and all of your fans at that point?
38:09
Speaker 1: That's when the narrative switched.
38:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say like I felt so. Well,
38:14
Speaker 4: I've learned this that like Bachelor Nation, if we're talking
38:17
Speaker 4: about other contestants, you know, men and women, I didn't
38:21
Speaker 4: receive a lot of support, but that's also because I
38:24
Speaker 4: didn't put a lot of effort into relationships post show.
38:28
Speaker 4: I isolated myself from that whole environment. I was so
38:31
Speaker 4: upset with how the show went and I didn't feel
38:33
Speaker 4: I was depicted fairly, and I just really I had
38:36
Speaker 4: a bad taste in my mouth about the whole experience,
38:39
Speaker 4: and so I avoided just interacting with people from the show.
38:43
Speaker 4: Everything was bad. If it was Bachelor related, it was
38:45
Speaker 4: bad in my mind.
38:47
Speaker 1: So, you know, I was an outcast.
38:49
Speaker 4: I guess that I had created that myself, and I
38:51
Speaker 4: went to Phoenix and I didn't get involved in that scene.
38:54
Speaker 4: So whenever it came time to, you know, people were
38:57
Speaker 4: to stand up and support me. Like most of the
38:58
Speaker 4: people were like, well, he doesn't really interact with us,
39:01
Speaker 4: and I don't know the guy, so why would I
39:02
Speaker 4: step into the middle of this.
39:04
Speaker 1: So I didn't have a lot of like support, But
39:06
Speaker 1: that was my own doing.
39:08
Speaker 4: You know, because I wasn't you know, fostering those relationships
39:11
Speaker 4: as far as like the fans of the show. I know,
39:15
Speaker 4: I got a lot of blowback online when the scandal
39:17
Speaker 4: first came out.
39:18
Speaker 1: There were a lot of people that wanted it to be.
39:20
Speaker 4: True because they wanted it furthered their narrative that I
39:23
Speaker 4: was this bad guy that they all believed me to be.
39:26
Speaker 4: He's a monster, this tracks he you know, he is
39:28
Speaker 4: with the guy we saw on TV. He's just a
39:30
Speaker 4: bad person. Like this, that's what and here you go,
39:32
Speaker 4: this is what happens. You know, this is what bad
39:33
Speaker 4: people do. So they all went after me with their
39:36
Speaker 4: pitchforks right out the gate. When I was able to
39:39
Speaker 4: turn the narrative and show the truth, they all acted
39:42
Speaker 4: like nothing happened.
39:43
Speaker 1: Or they ignored the whole They ignored it, or.
39:45
Speaker 4: Some of them are like, oh, we weren't even like
39:47
Speaker 4: we we we supported him right away, like they're they're
39:49
Speaker 4: revisionists you know history.
39:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're acting like they were all sudden supporting me.
39:53
Speaker 4: I'm like, because you all can't take accountability and just
39:55
Speaker 4: admit that you wanted to see me fail, because that
39:58
Speaker 4: would have you that you.
40:00
Speaker 1: Have tomit, that you were wrong and that you were
40:01
Speaker 1: that you and they don't want to do that.
40:03
Speaker 4: So there's just something a lot of people online that
40:04
Speaker 4: weren't accountable that basically just said like, oh, whatever, this
40:07
Speaker 4: girl's crazy, Like let's not talk about I even saw
40:09
Speaker 4: this narrative. Well, let's not talk about this woman needs
40:11
Speaker 4: serious help, So like, let's not highlight this.
40:13
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, oh, so you want to.
40:15
Speaker 4: You wanted to push this all out there and defame
40:17
Speaker 4: me and read the articles and post them online. But
40:19
Speaker 4: the second that, all of a sudden, I'm I'm innocent.
40:23
Speaker 4: Oh like, guys, let's not shine light on this because like,
40:25
Speaker 4: this woman needs help and we shouldn't really, you know,
40:27
Speaker 4: we shouldn't make this worse than what it is.
40:29
Speaker 3: It was both that's such a complicated line of you know,
40:34
Speaker 3: mental health and accountability and criminal.
40:37
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, I can just.
40:39
Speaker 3: Imagine how how that went, So, what do you if
40:42
Speaker 3: someone listening is facing a false accusation like similar, what
40:46
Speaker 3: advice would you give them?
40:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, first I would I would make sure
40:51
Speaker 4: that you have an adequate support system in place, because
40:54
Speaker 4: I think a lot of this, well a lot of
40:57
Speaker 4: your emotional energy is going to go towards.
41:01
Speaker 1: Fighting this individual.
41:02
Speaker 4: Of course, you have to assess how seriously they're they're
41:05
Speaker 4: going to fight you, you know, if if if you know,
41:09
Speaker 4: so there's levels, if if they're just going to send
41:11
Speaker 4: you some messages, block them, you know, if if they
41:13
Speaker 4: obviously show up to your house called the cops. You know,
41:15
Speaker 4: I mean, make sure that you're protected. If you need
41:18
Speaker 4: to get an order protection, do that. But I do
41:21
Speaker 4: I think that you should go straight to getting an
41:24
Speaker 4: order protection, straight to taking them to court, straight to
41:26
Speaker 4: you know, defamation. No, because I think, of course, like
41:30
Speaker 4: if you do that to somebody that's texting you, and
41:33
Speaker 4: you ramp up the you know, all of a sudden,
41:35
Speaker 4: the severity of it, like you can piss them off,
41:37
Speaker 4: you know, and that's where you have to It's like
41:40
Speaker 4: you don't fight fire with fire per se, until like
41:42
Speaker 4: fire is the only thing you can fight with. I
41:45
Speaker 4: think you know someone going through something similar, it's like, hey,
41:48
Speaker 4: just try to let it subside, you know, just stop
41:51
Speaker 4: interacting with them, block their phone number, if they email you,
41:54
Speaker 4: block their email. Make sure like that, you know, you
41:58
Speaker 4: have a good support system in place to keep your
42:00
Speaker 4: emotions at base, so you don't.
42:01
Speaker 1: Keep suppressing all this.
42:02
Speaker 4: I have an outlet to get out, like your struggles
42:06
Speaker 4: and so the things you're feeling, because you don't want
42:08
Speaker 4: to push those down because otherwise they'll bubble up and
42:12
Speaker 4: then and then just from there and then and then
42:14
Speaker 4: react accordingly. There does come a point where if you're
42:17
Speaker 4: fighting against somebody that is not going to let it go,
42:20
Speaker 4: then I do believe there's that point where you go, okay,
42:22
Speaker 4: I'm switching from reactive to proactive.
42:25
Speaker 1: And that's what I did.
42:26
Speaker 4: I got to a point where I said, you know,
42:28
Speaker 4: I'm tired of being reactive.
42:30
Speaker 1: This woman is not going to stop. I have to
42:32
Speaker 1: now take charge.
42:33
Speaker 4: I have to get ahead of her game and put
42:36
Speaker 4: the pressure on her by being becoming proactive. So I
42:38
Speaker 4: hired a legal team and filed and in the court
42:41
Speaker 4: to get her to prove that she was pregnant. And
42:44
Speaker 4: and that's where things switched all of a sudden. I
42:46
Speaker 4: was like, no, we're not playing your game. We're going
42:49
Speaker 4: to play my game.
42:50
Speaker 3: Right, going from de escalating it actually escalating it. Like
42:54
Speaker 3: that's that fine line, right, figuring out which is which?
42:59
Speaker 2: So what do you hurt? The trial is now set
43:03
Speaker 2: for July.
43:04
Speaker 3: What are you expecting from the upcoming trial? And what
43:07
Speaker 3: will moving on look?
43:09
Speaker 1: Like? What I'm hoping is for justice in the form
43:12
Speaker 1: of prison time.
43:13
Speaker 4: I do At this point, she's still she said she's
43:17
Speaker 4: not guilty, so that's that's the claim she's going with.
43:20
Speaker 4: She's not you know, I don't think she's taking a
43:22
Speaker 4: plea at this point. I haven't heard that she is,
43:25
Speaker 4: so no accountability has still been taken. So I want
43:29
Speaker 4: her to face charges. So that's, you know, to me,
43:33
Speaker 4: what does that look like? I mean, sometime in federal prison.
43:36
Speaker 4: If she's facing fifty seven years. I don't anticipate expect
43:40
Speaker 4: her to get fifty seven years, but she better not
43:43
Speaker 4: get off, you know, with with no jail time. I mean,
43:46
Speaker 4: because look like, ultimately I can't persuade, you know, I
43:49
Speaker 4: can share my story and I can testify, but if
43:52
Speaker 4: the county attorney just lets her get will you testify.
43:55
Speaker 2: Do you know yet you have to? You will?
43:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely am.
43:59
Speaker 4: But here thing like if I don't if it gets off,
44:03
Speaker 4: if she gets off with a slap on the wrist
44:05
Speaker 4: and like this, will she will do it again? And sure,
44:09
Speaker 4: and then not only will she do it again, but
44:10
Speaker 4: someone that's following this will go, oh, so you can
44:13
Speaker 4: just get away with all this and waste people's time
44:16
Speaker 4: and not face any accountability. And this will set up
44:18
Speaker 4: the next round of perpetrators. Right, So the you know,
44:22
Speaker 4: the kind of attorney has to make an example out
44:24
Speaker 4: of her if they want the court system to be
44:27
Speaker 4: taken seriously, because if she gets off, you've just showed
44:30
Speaker 4: that the judicial system has no accountability and there's no
44:35
Speaker 4: you know, as long as you just keep lying and
44:36
Speaker 4: lying and lying, there's you know, there's no punishment to
44:39
Speaker 4: be had.
44:40
Speaker 1: So I don't see that happening.
44:42
Speaker 4: I really do believe Rachel Mitchell, I mean, has pursued
44:45
Speaker 4: her and has pursued her hard, and is continually stacking.
44:48
Speaker 1: More and more charges.
44:50
Speaker 4: I've even heard that there's potentially more coming on top
44:52
Speaker 4: of the fourteen.
44:54
Speaker 3: I also read that her parents they had filed for
44:56
Speaker 3: bankruptcy and there was all sorts of discrepancies about what
45:00
Speaker 3: they were going to be using the money for, and
45:02
Speaker 3: they you know, in insinuating that perhaps they were going
45:05
Speaker 3: to use it for her legal defense. And so it
45:07
Speaker 3: does seem as though they're they're trying to make everyone
45:12
Speaker 3: accountable to some degree.
45:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean her I just actually found out
45:16
Speaker 4: today that her parents' house is up for auction. So
45:19
Speaker 4: I mean, they they are completely over leveraged from what
45:21
Speaker 4: I understand. You know, they are in heavy debt, they
45:24
Speaker 4: don't they don't have the money they used to have anymore,
45:28
Speaker 4: and so you know, they're why they're liquidating the home.
45:31
Speaker 4: That means because they're not paying their mortgage, is my understanding.
45:34
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I mean assets are getting liquidated, and
45:38
Speaker 4: you know, the curtain is falling. So I mean, accountabilities
45:41
Speaker 4: is seemingly on the way. I'd be shocked if we
45:46
Speaker 4: you know, if if if at the end of July,
45:48
Speaker 4: if if she was able to walk freely.
45:52
Speaker 2: I will be surprised as well if that happens.
45:55
Speaker 4: And then I'll become an advocate for for you know,
45:58
Speaker 4: victims like me, And I'm like, look like I don't
46:00
Speaker 4: want to do that, but I'm like, if if, if
46:02
Speaker 4: it gets to that point where like she gets off
46:04
Speaker 4: Scott free, it's it's definitely something that I've then considered, like,
46:06
Speaker 4: do I start advocating, do I start going for pushing
46:09
Speaker 4: for new legislation. I mean, I don't really because to me,
46:13
Speaker 4: this like it would make me sick to my stomach
46:16
Speaker 4: and I would be extremely angry at the court system.
46:18
Speaker 4: I don't want to Again, I have nothing but great
46:21
Speaker 4: things to say about the court system right now. Is
46:25
Speaker 4: not so much about the time the slowness. Certainly could
46:29
Speaker 4: it could speed up, it could have a little bit
46:31
Speaker 4: of a faster process, but outside of that, we've got,
46:34
Speaker 4: you know, things have worked in our favors. So I'm like, look,
46:37
Speaker 4: I'm fine with this working at a snail's pace as
46:41
Speaker 4: long as we get the justice.
46:42
Speaker 1: But we get right.
46:44
Speaker 4: I mean, how many other people out there you hear
46:45
Speaker 4: about this where they go to court and they you know,
46:48
Speaker 4: they lose and it's like there's no accountability. I just
46:50
Speaker 4: think it's it's a point where it's like, guys, like
46:53
Speaker 4: we need to have like there needs.
46:55
Speaker 1: To be punishment for people that do stuff like this.
46:57
Speaker 4: So so yeah, I agree, optimistic. I am actually, you
47:01
Speaker 4: really do believe that she's going to I mean the
47:04
Speaker 4: fact that she's facing fifty seven years.
47:05
Speaker 1: I didn't think we're going to get to that amount, right.
47:09
Speaker 3: Well, people can hear all of the details, all the
47:14
Speaker 3: media details of this on your new podcast, Love Trapped
47:18
Speaker 3: Owens the Eckard and the first episode drops today and
47:23
Speaker 3: Clayton cool, first two, first two. Clayton, thank you so
47:28
Speaker 3: much for you know, in all honesty, I didn't know
47:31
Speaker 3: that much about this before I knew that we were
47:34
Speaker 3: going to speak, and then the more I read, the
47:37
Speaker 3: further my jaw was dropping on to the desk, like
47:42
Speaker 3: I just, uh so, I'm sorry for all that you've
47:45
Speaker 3: been through and I really appreciate you being here.
47:48
Speaker 2: Today and I hope that this all goes the right
47:51
Speaker 2: direction for you.
47:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for giving me a platform. Again.
47:55
Speaker 4: It just helps to get the story out so that
47:56
Speaker 4: way justice will have a higher chance of getting sir.
48:00
Speaker 2: So thank you, all right, thank you