Latest / Skin Anarchy / Redefining the Modern Red Lip with Denise Vasi, Founder of MAED

Transcript

Redefining the Modern Red Lip with Denise Vasi, Founder of MAED · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to the NRT.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited about her beauty today because we have such a special guest with us.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've been trying to get her on the podcast for I think three or four years now.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very excited that we're finally doing this.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: She is the creative genius behind the brand maid.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: She has had such a phenomenal career in the beauty industry, and I am just so excited to be hosting her.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So please without further ado, please welcome Denise Vossi.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Denise.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so honored to host you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was such a sweet intro.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad we finally got to do this.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly, when I asked you to come on, I just want to learn more about you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love watching you on socials and all the amazing progress you've made with just made and the brand and all the beautiful things.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could walk us down memory lane, tell us where did your journey begin with like be the beauty industry and everything, you know?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, thank you.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I started in beauty as a model very young.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was signed by Eileen Ford to Ford Models.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: At some point, they realized I wasn't going to get runway height and they pivoted my career into beauty.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up on set with some of the most incredible glam artists of our time.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I did many beauty campaigns from Bobby Brown to Kevin O'Coins.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was touched by many legends and learned a lot of what I know and how I formulate through those years on set.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Also, I grew up with a grandmother who just absolutely dies for beauty.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: She was an aesthetician who left that career to raise her family.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I spent a lot of my time in the kitchen with her, either cooking dinner or doing facials and running skincare routines.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: From there I went on to be an actress.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I got married, I had my first child and decided to stay home with my daughter.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I launched Made.co, which was kind of editorial plus blog platforms.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had a byline of myself that you know I spoke and wrote about, wrote to, and then my writers who also, you know, had their own bylines.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we spoke about everything from clean living, health and wellness, intentional living.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: I focused on clean beauty and motherhood.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: All that time I was growing a community on social.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: This was before we addressed social media as a community, but when I was talking to mostly women all the time, just a little bit about everything, like why I chose certain products over others, or why I was eating a certain way, or if there was a new exercise craze, but all played into the lifestyle I was curating for our community.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: I've always loved beauty.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think growing up, as a little girl, you're like, wow, I'd love to have a beauty brand, but how is it possible?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now we live in a world where information is at our fingertips and you can reach out to anyone and ask for advice, understand how things are made so much easier than we did before.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not that it makes it any easier, but at least the information is more accessible.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: In 2019, I just had my son and I went into my agency that was managing my career at the time, and I said, This is what I want to do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: April, who was the head of my team at the time, was like, okay, let's do it.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so that kind of was the start of a very long journey to developing the ritual and the collection that you see now at Sephora.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you started from like this genuine editorial place of this like community building, because I feel like now, and I don't know if you agree with me, but I look at this on social media where there's maybe a space blowing up in the skincare and the beauty industry, and somebody just hops on that bandwagon and is like, I'm gonna make a product because everybody's buying this right now.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It irks me so much as a consumer.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when I see brands like like your brand story, like that's really resonates because that's where I feel like products become like staples versus just another thing that you're buying, you know.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are your thoughts on that?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are your thoughts on this like super high-paced, like ever-evolving beauty industry that I feel like every day we have like 50 brands that are coming out?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Constant newness.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: For some brands, it works.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more of the turtle wins the race.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: People typically ask me why lip?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I always wore a red lip.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was very well known for wearing this bold matte liquid lipstick red lip that I was mixing.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: That really was the beginning into formulating the whole care system.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I go, What is true?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Can I solve a problem that I'm experiencing when I bring that problem to my community?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do they also feel like they experience it?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's less about trend and newness and more about building out core products and what we can create better.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Can we make this better?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Can we make something innovative and new versus chasing the trend?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because as we know, trends go in and out, and evergreen lasts forever, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I always look at it as functionality.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Is this a functional product that people can use at any point in time, at any age of their lifespan?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the trajectory we choose to take, but we know it has been successful for some brands.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, can't you've got to respect their strategy.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: We just choose to, we just choose to formulate different, you know.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: As you know, we're now at Sephora, and so my conversation with them is always like, okay, we don't want to do something that someone else already does well.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: If that brand makes that product really well and there's no innovation we can bring to that category, then let's let that brand shine and do something different.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's only worth the investment as a brand and the time and energy it takes to introduce it to the consumer if we're actually making something better, changing, or innovating.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really love everything you said on so many different fronts because when I look at what you guys are doing, the red lip, for example, let's talk about that a little bit more because I'm obsessed with it, and I think for a long time, so many women couldn't find a red lipstick.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when Mac had Ruby Woo and everybody was obsessed.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: We were struggling to find a shade that you would think has been around for decades, you know, women in their 50s in the 50s, 60s like forever have worn a red lip, but for some reason the beauty industry kept missing that mark.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a darker skin tone, you can't wear it, it doesn't sit well, you know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was your approach when you were coming out with the red shade and re-kind of like recreating this for the modern world?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where was that brainstorming for you that took place to bring this to life?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Great question.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: First and foremost, I would say my biggest concern was comfortable wear.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think you need to start there making sure that you could reach a formula that felt comfortable on the lip because we are in the liquid, matte liquid lipstick format, which can be intimidating for a lot of people and looking at what we consider clean formulation.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's first and foremost where it started, nailing down that formula, and then testing, testing, testing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Besides that, we had a very extensive PD team.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think we had every shade of skin tone.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: We had every person on our team had a different hair color, a lip color, really looking also to lip tone color because that is something that I also think needs to be considered as a lip brand.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: But then going one step further, going into specifically looking for students that were in beauty school who understood product and understood color theory and bringing them into the testing process and A B testing formulas and undertones.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we really spent a long time.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: My PD wanted to fire me.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that's my point, that's the void that I was trying to fill because I started this journey before we had the lip boom.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's so interesting because I saw it happening before my eyes and going, oh my gosh, like this is what I've been talking about while I've been working on these formulas for two years.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you can imagine that for a moment that gets frightening, and then you realize you always have your point of difference, you're talking to this person this way, and other brands are doing it differently.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: But it was very interesting to see the lip boom happen while I was rejecting formula after formula because I really looked at each formula and said, if I have to sit on 20,000 tubes for the rest of my life, I'm gonna stand by this formula.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I would not budge.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of aggressive testing and taking in feedback and looking at every skin tone.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: My family is very mixed, and so I look at it and go, if I'm gonna make something that's gotta look good on grandma, mom, my cousins.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was really important to me that we knocked out a shade that everyone could put on and feel confident in.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I feel like you really did nail it though.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just want to say that you really did because I when I first tried the product, I was very skeptical because red never looks right on me.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is, I can't get it to look right, and I always pick the wrong shade.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: When I tried, I was just blown away.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: She really put thought into this and she really thought about like what actually makes you feel beautiful when you have a red lip.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's like a whole conversation because there are so many makeup artists nowadays, YouTube artists or professional makeup artists, and sometimes they're dodging the red lip because it's a hard topic and not one size fits all.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: When you're able to create a product that is universal and is fundamentally inclusive, hats off to you because it's amazing.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love what you did.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: That means a lot to me.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to talk about this in the sense of where do you feel like because I know right now inclusivity is really buzzing.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we kind of shifted the last five years.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think five years ago we were talking about inclusivity, but it wasn't in your face.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like everybody's talking about inclusivity.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on that?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: What is truly the definition of inclusivity for you?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great question.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about it for too long, then we've seen some action, and some of it has been really genuine because we're in the business of making and selling products.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it, unfortunately, is performative.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: True inclusivity comes from a very intentional and genuine space.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: It is not only putting every shade of human in your beauty campaign or your fashion campaign, but it is solving for those problems.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: It is formulating for those problems, it is testing for those individuals.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to lips, we've consistently seen products that didn't focus on people of colors' lips, right?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: There are just different concerns.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: The same way we have different hair textures, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Your hair texture and my hair texture, we're gonna have different hair concerns.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: We need brands to solve for those.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: We don't just need a brand to put us both in a campaign and say we're speaking to her and speaking to her.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: We need that actually in formulation.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I'm very mixed, taking that into consideration from my own life experiences and my own POV.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I look at it and go, okay, everything about this needs to be inclusive.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not only our shade range, but also our applicators.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: How do I feel when I am using a lip product and the applicator is smaller than my lip size?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have a fuller lip.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine individuals who have even larger, fuller lips than mine, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're not being considered.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So when you look at our applicators and the way our liquid pigment wraps the lip, it holds the full size of the lips, you get that one swipe coverage, which makes it so easy.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: When you look at our revive bomb, we have a very different applicator that is full enough to cover the entire lip surface.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that for me is how I approach inclusivity.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just what you see in a marketing campaign or the creators that we bring on to make content.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: It is in our formulas solving the problems that all people have, specifically starting with people of color, because in the lip category, those problems were not being formulated to solve for.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then it is through line all the way to our packaging.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Real inclusivity is A to Z, not just what's in front of the camera, not just what's in the capture or the tagline.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's genuine, it's intentional, and it starts at the beginning and goes through the entire scope of what it takes to bring a product to market.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I could not agree more with you.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And beautifully said, I think that is truly lessons a lot of entrepreneurs can learn from.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing to create products in a category, but it's another thing to really think about who is this category serving and what are all of those needs and how do we really figure that out in one model?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's really hard to do.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can see why you spent so much time in the RD phase trying to nail this down.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I want to talk to you about obviously skincare is big here, right?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the lip category has been ignored in skincare.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It still is in a lot of ways, and there's a specific need medically and physiologically for the lips.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: What was some of that research for you when you were looking into the health of the lips and trying to incorporate that into your products?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: For me, like you said, it is about the health of lips, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think for so long we've been sold what was going to give our lips comfort, whether that's comfort and a feeling or aesthetic comfort.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: What's gonna make me look cute or what's gonna immediately take care of a dry lip.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is you need something deeper to care for the lips.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: There is research and information to know about the lips.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: The lips don't have oil glands, they cannot self-produce oil to rehydrate themselves, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so hydration and moisturization being two different things.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you put something that feels cushiony or comforting on the lip, you might have that immediate good feeling.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: But are you actually treating the problem, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a microterror in the lip barrier that needs to be restored?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: The reason the formulas took so long was focusing on the lip barrier and what would make it resilient over time.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, our products give you that immediate great feeling, especially let's say our serum, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's our clinically backed formula.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so you get that instant surge of hydration, which makes you feel good.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: But with extended use, regularly you actually retain more hydration and moisture to the lip.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you're in a better place than when you started.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the long-term benefit.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it was like, how do we make products that actually help the lip long term?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do we help products that go beyond just the aesthetic?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: How do we make products that don't just live on top of the lip but deeply penetrate and help the lip become stronger?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this conversation about how many times people will go through a tube and how much you want them to keep reapplying.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing would drive me more insane.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: This really came out of COVID and all the Zooms, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where I would put something on and you're on a Zoom, you get thirsty, sip of your water, usually my coffee, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you immediately feel like the product is gone.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is a professional Zoom.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel comfortable to pull out a lip hydrator and put it on.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I want something that when you take that drink of water, you actually still have your product.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I want something where I put it on at night because it's supposed to be a night mask, and when I wake up, it's still there.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of what I was looking for were issues that I felt like I was experiencing and that we could do better.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: But really, we start at the barrier and look at repairing the barrier and restoring the barrier.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that because honestly, for so many years, lip care was literally just chapstick.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like chopstick.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: I still have that because when I originally started to reach out to different teams trying to understand the business, how would I do this?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Who would I bring on to help me?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: You probably know if not, you could go to these kind of companies that do everything for you to create product and you slap your name on things.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I was like, That's absolutely not what I want to do.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: However, when I first started the process, people literally said to me, Well, it's like chapstick, why would anybody need anything more than a six-dollar chapstick?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Chapstick's not what it is.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is elevated, this is self-care, this is a moment, this is a ritual, but also there's no formulation there, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny now looking back.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this was 2019 when I started having those meetings, I think.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back and going, can you give me the stats on what the lip category is now to watch it boom and explode like that?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, people didn't believe it, and no one was formulating for that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what are you some of your like honestly?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: For me, lip has been the most annoying when it comes to skincare.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could never use chopsticks because every time I'd use it, my lips were more chapped than I think I've ever experienced in my life.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I had problems, I never had problems before, but then I used chapstick and I was like cracked lips, you know, corners of my mouth were and then not to mention as you age, you get those fine lines.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're vermilion border, like you start getting that leaking of the lipstick or the lip color into these lines.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that is like this aging process that takes place.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I, for the longest time, I know for me as a consumer, I couldn't find products that were truly barrier supportive for lip care.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't even addressing a concern.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even think there was something on the label or the packaging that said, hey, this is gonna help with transepidermal water loss or whatever.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: There was nothing there.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I asked you because I was like, it's just been ignored.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we don't even talk about lip care, and it's absolutely fundamental, you know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you though, because I feel like you've created a line that is so interesting because you're in combining both philosophies, right?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're giving us the colored product, you're giving us the cosmetics, but you're giving us actual nourishing skincare benefits.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: How is that for you when it comes to like the marketing or the messaging around this?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know right now on social media a lot of people are talking about I don't know if I believe in makeup infused with skincare.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I believe there's a lot of conversations.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is your take on that?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I would say we differ because we are really rooted in the mission of care before color.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: We have our ritual red, which is our signature lip pigment.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: In order to wear a bold, beautiful color, you need to have taken care of your lips because there's nothing worse than a red lip, whether it's a bullet or a liquid formula, than red unchapped or you know, flaky lips.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's undeniably necessary.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: When I looked at the market, there was no start to finish and no ritual, there was no routine that could build upon, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was clear to me that we could interject in this space.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: We always start with care being the foundation.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everything about me is about bridging self-care with self-expression.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful, bold, colorful cosmetics is where you get to be self-expressive, you get to try different things, you get to, you know, focus on your lip or focus on your eye through color.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: At the core of that is, and this is something I've learned from being on set with amazing glam artists, especially when I was modeling in the 90s, the consumer never saw the final beautiful cosmetic beauty campaign, but didn't know that we sat in the chair for 45 minutes.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: The makeup artists hydrated the face, some gave manual face stimulus, massages, polished your lips, they put on all these skincare ingredients to the face before applying color.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was at that time it wasn't about being infused, it was these are separate steps, and you take them so that you can actually have this beautiful final appearance of your color.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Your makeup is always gonna lay better if you care for your skin, including your lips.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: That is our approach.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's always care before color and we average self-care with self-expression.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: When I take time for myself, whether it's my five-minute lip care ritual, yoga class or cardio strip tease class, I go out into the world more confident.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: I am more rooted, and so MAID really stands to bring those dualities together for our community and consumers, both from a product and emotional stance.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that a lot.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I really like what you said about the artistry when you're actually behind the scenes in the professional setting, how much goes into that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the part where consumers we don't really see that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know that there are so many steps involved, whether it's makeup application or any kind of there's a whole thing.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting that you brought that up.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I want to act talk to you about the cultural significance of a red lip because I I hate that we don't talk about it.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being young and there were women I really looked up to, and they always had this beautiful red lip, and it was so powerful and it's stunning on them.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I remember as a little girl looking at that and being like, I love that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wear that one day when I'm allowed to wear makeup.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on the cultural side of what a red lip means?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You literally give me goosebumps when you say that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: The red lip is so powerful and has been in our even our American culture has been the statement for so many different movements, especially for women.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's been very empowering.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: We've been able to take ownership of it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's sometimes been our shield, it's like been our veil in moments when we needed to stand up.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Red is a very powerful color.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's something in almost everyone's past where they remember that woman in their family putting on that red lip and how all of a sudden her personality or confidence shifted.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And for me personally, it has always been a statement of power.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in this room, I own this space.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: When you are in my presence, know that I am confident, even in the moments when I wasn't.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: So many times it's been my secret weapon to feeling that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think culturally we've seen that, especially in the Latina culture.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: You may have seen that I had the iconic Latina collaboration for Hispanic Heritage Month.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that women put on and it was proof of their power.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was, I am here, look at me.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: I deserve to be seen.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Even in moments where I might feel overwhelmed or vulnerable, I have a little piece of armor.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love how you explain that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's so beautiful because makeup and I've had kind of a bone to pick with the makeup industry lately.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've kind of shaped what makeup can do for women and what it can really bring.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of times where I see if someone is trying a more bold lip or they're trying that like that whole thing that's going to give them that confidence.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Society likes to break that down.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also a part of why I wanted you to speak on this topic specifically.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: The red lip, like you just beautifully articulated, it is it's been like an armor for women for so many decades.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And across cultures, I'm Indian.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I saw this in my culture growing up.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was raised by a lot of amazing black women in my life that taught me a lot of what I know now.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would see them wearing a red lip, and that was their confidence statement.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everybody across race, across cultures, this is where makeup transforms from cosmetics to a tool that women have for our own self, something for us.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just love the messaging of that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I really feel like we need to hone in on that and focus on what are the psychological benefits of feeling like you do have something that you can put on.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna give you that pep in your step at the end of the day.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're walking into a meeting or whatever you're doing, that's huge.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Red lipstick has been on the front lines of so many protests, so many civil movements, so many, you know, it is really a cultural statement.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think why people call it out is because it makes people feel uncomfortable.
• 25:09
  unknown: Yes.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: It stands for something and it makes you look at somebody out, like it makes that person stand out, and not everybody's comfortable with that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so unfortunately, as humans, some people who haven't evolved and then the work, when they're uncomfortable, instead of sitting with themselves, it's easier to critique others, unfortunately.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you 100%.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really cool to see that we've carried certain things over, and I think they're just staples, especially for women.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously everyone enjoys makeup, but as a woman, I feel like there are things in our arsenal that should never be messed with.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Leave our red lipstick alone.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Leave those little tools alone that we rely on day in and day out.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like social media needs to focus on that because there's a lot of shaming out here.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Room for that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I never properly congratulated you by the way for Sephora.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge congratulations for that.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well deserved.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: How's that been for you in terms of your business strategy and growing the brand?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you know, it's been overwhelming.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: In all the best possible ways.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for seeing that.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It has been literally a dream come true.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the first Sephora to open and sew and walking in and being like, it'd be so cool to have something here, you know, like to have product here.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: What is this?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we didn't even know that idea of going from when you went with your grandmother to Macy's, let's say, and buying cosmetics into a concept like Sephora.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was born, and then as I grew up, that changed to one day I'm gonna have something here, you know.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's literally been a true dream come true.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I am a self-funded business, so we have a small team, so it is indeed a lot of work, there's a lot of grit and heart that we put into our partnership with Sephora, but honestly, we have the best team on the other side.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I attribute our success to their partnership as well.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of learning lessons, right?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: They have a glossary of acronyms that you're literally in meetings like, hold on, pick that up.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Got it, MSE.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're a huge organization with their with that's fully running and you're jumping in and learning every single day, but I'm so grateful for their transparency and availability.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: The team is always ready to jump on a call and help me work through something if I'm not fully understanding.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I am so grateful to them and to the Accelerate program.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: I went through Sephora Accelerate program, I completed that in 2024, and I think that was a great learning lesson.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if anybody who's listening has a brand and their goal is to be at Sephora, completing the program doesn't guarantee entry into the retailer.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: However, I don't think there's any other way to learn what it really will take without this accelerator.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Offer the advice of anybody who wants to be at Sephora to apply for that program.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally like your MBA at Sephora as a retailer.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: We've been received so well by their customer.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's lots of learning lessons.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: The way we speak to our community, which I've already had in place, is different than how we educate their consumer because of the way that they've been educated by other brands, because they're seeing so many brands at once.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is a learning experience.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, it's been super successful so far.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just so excited that you're in Sephora and that you're available.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: The accessibility component alone is huge, and I feel like everyone needs to get their hands on made and try the products themselves.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're absolutely stunning products.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: For anyone listening out there, if you guys love genuinely good lip care, this is a really great brand.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I really urge everybody to check it out.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Denise, I want to get your words of wisdom for a lot of the people that tune in because we have a really great audience of budding entrepreneurs.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't really know how to navigate their space or any advice that you can offer that would help someone who wants to take this journey, make something for themselves, a creative brand, anything you can offer.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've got a couple things.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think the the 101 of it is definitely don't be afraid to reach out and ask people for help.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: This was something I had to learn from for myself for just because that's something that's personally hard for me to do.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: But the more I reached out to others, other founders, looking for just looking for advice, you'll be surprised at how many people actually want to help you and actually want to guide you in a way that means you won't make the mistakes that they did.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: So don't be afraid to reach out to people.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the age-old statement of there is no stupid question is the truth.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would just say, put your head down and do the work.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: People did not know what I was working on for years.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You would see that she must be really busy.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: She's on social because I started taking meetings, you know, I was in places, I was researching, I was testing things, I was traveling to, you know, for different aspects of the business.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't talk about it until the accelerate program, like until I had something really concrete to put in front of everybody.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there is this beautiful time in between like building in front of everyone, but also making people wait too long.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if I had started talking about it two years earlier, people would have been like, You've been talking about this for two years, girl.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: When is it gonna come?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: So put your head down, do the work, keep it close, keep it tight, not necessarily to be secretive, but so that you can work in a silo where you're only putting the options in front of the people who you trust versus everybody's opinion.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's something about too many chefs in the kitchen that I really believe in.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there's an aspect that we really bring the community in.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: We put shades in front of them and say what do you like, what you don't like, but that's already based on a formula that we stand by.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I there is no shortcut to doing the work.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to create something great, something that's gonna last, something that's gonna be different, and that's really what you need now, especially in the beauty space.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: You need differentiator, whether that's your shade tone, your textures, your innovation, you really have to put the work and do the research.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Don't cut it short because you feel like you need to get there faster.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was in development and saw what was happening for my counterparts in this space and the boom and lip care.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: I could have made a choice to go to market with a formula that I was not happy with, but we had already been in development for a year.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And my PD team, the head of PD for me, came and said, You have a choice.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can rush to meet this boom, or you scrap a year.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: We don't lose everything because you have some learnings, but we start again and we take what we've learned elsewhere for development.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was a hard decision because you get nervous.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: You think you're gonna miss the moment, but the reality is if you're making something good, you're not gonna miss the moment.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're not.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be the right time if you're gonna have something that you can fully stand by.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I chose to scrap the first year of development and start again.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And even though everyone wanted to keep me at the moment, every single person on that team has come back to me and said, I'm so glad we did that because what you have is different and special.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I can wholeheartedly stand by, and no one can take away doing the work, putting the time, doing the research.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Don't rush for anyone else's timeline.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: You come out with something when you feel good about it, when it feels good in your heart.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: If I need to live with 40,000 tubes of lip product for the rest of my life, I can stand by them.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love everything you said.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, my favorite part of what you just said is putting in the work.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is my favorite because I feel like that's not said enough.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we don't put that out there enough for people, especially the younger generation, the women in their early 20s, like the idea of like hard work isn't really relayed as much as it was.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember growing up, we were like, people shove that down our throat.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have to work hard for everything that you get in life.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I feel like nowadays it's just not said enough.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I thank you for saying that and putting that up.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's also not shown enough.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think also we have glamorized what it is to be a founder and what it is to bring any idea into fruition.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: It seems quick.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was listening to Amy Liu, who's the founder of Tower 28, that she was saying uh people are like, oh, what is it to have this overnight sensation, you know, with our business?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, overnight?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: We've been building this business for six years.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've been in the beauty business for 10.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like you don't see it.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have Instagram one day, and even for someone like me, you're like, oh, she has a brand.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: But what you didn't see, or what you still don't see, is I'm up 18, 20 hours a day working because have my children, you know, go to sleep for a couple hours and then wake up to speak to Asia and then go back to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to speak to Italy, and then part of my teams in New York and part of my teams in LA.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: You don't see the late nights struggling, you can't figure out, and Excel sheet will drive me crazy.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: The things that are not so glamorous, you don't always see.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think social media has diminished the idea of what hard work is because it just makes things look instant.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up like you, I think with parents who were like, you've gotta put in the work and be ready to have an amazing answer if somebody turns around to you and asks you something in that room, and you always gotta be prepared.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also like plan B, you know, whatever.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is like another, like, no one talks about that either.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta have your plan B.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't always have to deviate from plan A, but you gotta have something to back up.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's just really good career advice what you're sharing.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: No matter what industry you're in, and no matter what your path is, you can't get around hard work.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what you said about social media.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: People are putting in 15 years before they even get on social media to showcase their product or any part of their life, and then it feels like it's all together, but it's not.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with everything you said.
• 35:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Denise, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a huge fan of what you're building.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like the world needs brands that are more thoughtful, especially with makeup.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: My personal relationship with makeup, I have my products, these are my tried and trues.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot pry them out of my cold, dead hands, you know, because that's what I rely on.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you make something like that, which you clearly have, like that's where it's like it's gonna resonate for years and years and years to come.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Huge hats off to you for everything you've built.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for Sana.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Such a fan of you and the pod.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: We've listened for so long.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so to hear that from you means so much to me.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's so sweet.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone, for everyone tuning in, please scroll down wherever you're tuning in right now, Spotify, Apple, doesn't matter, go to the show notes.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: The link for Maid is right there.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Click on the link, shop the brand.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you're gonna fall in love with it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for tuning in.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 36:48
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• 36:53
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• 36:55
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• 36:59
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• 37:02
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• 37:10
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