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Change Fatigue · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: All right.
• 0:30
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 20 of I Hate Talking.
• 0:33
  I Hate Talking: Hi.
• 0:34
  I Hate Talking: So our last episode was on the Mandela effect, and we did get some listener feedback from a couple of different listeners on that particular episode.
• 0:45
  I Hate Talking: So before we go into our word or phrase of this episode and some new topics, we do want to revisit a few of those things and make a few minor corrections here and there with some additional explanation and research that we've done, namely on the movie Shazam.
• 1:02
  I Hate Talking: With Shaq in it.
• 1:04
  I Hate Talking: So the Mandela effect is actually not that it was Shaq in the movie, but it was Sinbad in the movie and that the Shazam movie is a movie that stars Sinbad as a genie that helps a young boy, uh, but Uh, to all historical records, that movie never existed and actually even there's some records of Sinbad on Twitter mocking, uh, people that believe that this existed, uh, because it never existed and it is a Mandela effect.
• 1:40
  I Hate Talking: But the movie is not called Shazam, right?
• 1:43
  I Hate Talking: It's called Kazam.
• 1:46
  I Hate Talking: So then that is maybe where some of this misremembering is coming from is because there was then.
• 1:53
  I Hate Talking: A movie later where there was a movie Kazam that starred Shaq, and that is one of the explanations that -- is given on this particular Mandela -- effect.
• 2:06
  I Hate Talking: So Shaq was in two movies, Kazam and Shazam.
• 2:10
  I Hate Talking: No, the false memory that people remember as a Mandela effect is that it was Sinbad in Shazam.
• 2:17
  I Hate Talking: Uh, which is a correction from our last episode because when I was describing that Mandela effect, I did say it was Shaq in Shazam, uh, maybe just, uh, adding too many sounds and getting mixed up myself.
• 2:32
  I Hate Talking: So the Mandela effect, the thing that never existed, but people remember is Sinbad in Shazam, and then there really was Shaq in the movie Kazam.
• 2:42
  I Hate Talking: OK, that's a lot to follow.
• 2:45
  I Hate Talking: And one of the reasons that people are very passionate about this particular Mandela effect is that they seem to remember that Shazam.
• 2:54
  I Hate Talking: is a much better movie than Kazam and that Kazam was sort of like a knockoff where it was sort of, you know, trying to follow in the footsteps of success, um, and didn't, uh, have as good of a plot or uh movie experience or whatnot.
• 3:12
  I Hate Talking: And were they, did they come out at the same time?
• 3:15
  I Hate Talking: When did they both come out?
• 3:16
  I Hate Talking: Well, Shazam never came out because it's not real.
• 3:19
  I Hate Talking: Then why do people think that that one's a better movie?
• 3:22
  I Hate Talking: Because they seem to remember some, some sort of movie that sometime maybe in the early 90s, late 80s, perhaps.
• 3:29
  I Hate Talking: So there's uh that's when Shazam was supposedly released, and then Kazam with Shaq was actually released in 1996.
• 3:40
  I Hate Talking: OK.
• 3:41
  I Hate Talking: And then I don't think I saw, I was about to say I've never seen either, but I definitely haven't seen one then, and I don't think I've seen Kazam either.
• 3:52
  I Hate Talking: Maybe I have.
• 3:53
  I Hate Talking: But all I can think of is the Michael Jordan movie.
• 3:56
  I Hate Talking: So then I get confused about him and the Looney Tunes and whatever that movie is called.
• 4:02
  I Hate Talking: And that movie was Space Jam.
• 4:04
  I Hate Talking: Yes, that was a good one.
• 4:06
  I Hate Talking: And that would have been right around that same time as well.
• 4:09
  I Hate Talking: But the, uh, there are a few other uh supposed explanations on this one where uh Sinbad actually did come forward stating that he did star in a skit one time when he was dressed as a genie that was, uh, not a full length movie, but um just a, a short skit.
• 4:28
  I Hate Talking: Uh, so that may be where, uh, some people are, uh, misremembering that, um, that was on film, but again, not a full feature length movie.
• 4:38
  I Hate Talking: There's also a lot of people on Reddit that are citing a movie called Aliens for Breakfast, uh, which did star Sinbad.
• 4:50
  I Hate Talking: Um, this came out in 1994 and um it does have.
• 4:55
  I Hate Talking: That particular character, I guess as an alien that helps a kid overcome certain things and so there, there may be some overlap there, OK, instead of a genie, yes, -- the alien helping the -- 90s movies.
• 5:08
  I Hate Talking: These are classics.
• 5:10
  I Hate Talking: Yep, and I've don't know any of them, so that's why I think I even got some of the details when we were talking about it in our last episode.
• 5:18
  I Hate Talking: Uh, there's also some interesting resources that another listener shared on just the challenges with eyewitness testimony, uh, just with some of these things that people are either remembering correctly, sometimes, incorrectly most times or just, uh, not clearly, uh, where you'll have, you know, some people that are describing certain things that Uh, are far different even though they were actually eyewitnesses to a particular event or crime or whatever the case may be, um, even, uh, Perhaps a call back to our special bonus content episode that we did where, you know, people are in the moment and not even really even able to interpret what's going on around them in a high stress scenario.
• 6:09
  I Hate Talking: Um, so we'll uh put this particular website in the show notes, uh, with just some more of that research around eyewitness testimony and how it impacts psychological research as well as just misinformation or misrecording of history.
• 6:26
  I Hate Talking: Um, I think, I don't know if this particular website states this one, but I think there was that famous experiment where, uh, you're the observers supposed to count how many times a basketball bounces, and then, uh, they're asked about the person in the gorilla suit, and more often than not, people do not remember seeing a gorilla suit person.
• 6:50
  I Hate Talking: Uh, because they were so intently focused on counting the number of bounces.
• 6:55
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 6:57
  I Hate Talking: Um, I remember in one of my college courses, one of my psych classes, the instructor, unknowing to us.
• 7:05
  I Hate Talking: had like a student in there as a prop, basically.
• 7:11
  I Hate Talking: He was lecturing, everything was normal, and then the student stood up and just had this massive outburst, yelling and just like, whoa, and stormed out.
• 7:22
  I Hate Talking: And we're all kind of, wow, what happened?
• 7:25
  I Hate Talking: Whoops.
• 7:26
  I Hate Talking: And then, um, after a few moments, the instructor was like, What was he wearing?
• 7:31
  I Hate Talking: Who was that?
• 7:32
  I Hate Talking: Like, what was he wearing?
• 7:33
  I Hate Talking: What was his shirt?
• 7:33
  I Hate Talking: What was his backpack?
• 7:35
  I Hate Talking: None of us could agree on what he looked like.
• 7:38
  I Hate Talking: And so then he brought him out, brought him back in to show us what he actually was wearing and looking like.
• 7:44
  I Hate Talking: And it was interesting that, yeah, especially in high stress moments, but also just in general.
• 7:50
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, like if you're focusing on something else, it's hard to divert your attention to see everything around you.
• 7:57
  I Hate Talking: Yep, and uh there's actually even some research on this uh website, uh, which I don't know how you pronounce it, I guess NOA, uh, it's a NoAproject.com where at a crime scene when multiple witnesses are waiting on the authorities to arrive that they actually might be discussing with one another what happened and what they saw, uh, you know, as sort of just a perhaps, uh, Cathartic experience to, you know, explain what they saw and people may be giving their own perspective and that actually can change the witness testimony later on because they have this discussion with other witnesses on something that maybe just one particular witness saw and they actually didn't see, but then that actually can make it into the statement that they give the authorities.
• 8:49
  I Hate Talking: OK, right.
• 8:50
  I Hate Talking: And then we also touched on just the power of suggestion uh last time, um, and in some previous episodes as well, I believe, and, uh, that also can play a part in how questions are asked of a witness or someone that is uh trying to remember a certain event or movie or uh whatever the case may be, is that even just a simple change to the article within a sentence can Have a massive impact in terms of how a person is to respond.
• 9:23
  I Hate Talking: So the example given here is, did you see the broken headlight versus did you see a broken headlight?
• 9:30
  I Hate Talking: So the instance in which the is used is actually responded to much more frequently as a positive response.
• 9:39
  I Hate Talking: Right, yeah, hearing you say that, in my head, I could picture it.
• 9:43
  I Hate Talking: Like you, did you see the broken headlight?
• 9:46
  I Hate Talking: In my head, I'm instantly scanning the road, like, where was the headlight?
• 9:52
  I Hate Talking: But if you ask the question, did you see a headlight?
• 9:56
  I Hate Talking: like, nope, didn't see it.
• 9:58
  I Hate Talking: I'm much quicker to discount it versus scanning my memory to find one.
• 10:03
  I Hate Talking: Exactly.
• 10:05
  I Hate Talking: And when you say the broken headlight, it almost is insinuating that there was a broken headlight and whether you saw it or not, versus when you're using the article A is whether it exists or not, not necessarily whether you saw it or not.
• 10:20
  I Hate Talking: Right, yes.
• 10:21
  I Hate Talking: So, lots of interesting psychological things at play here, both within witness testimony and shared experience, as well as how it plays a part in these Mandela effects that we have talked about last time as well as uh wrapped up in this start of this episode.
• 10:41
  I Hate Talking: Well, I think my kids will forever remember Pikachu has a solid Yellow tail because they heard afterwards, we didn't tell them why we were asking.
• 10:52
  I Hate Talking: And then they heard the podcast and they were like, oh.
• 10:54
  I Hate Talking: And then they had a discussion over who believed it, and I already knew that, and you were wrong.
• 11:00
  I Hate Talking: So, I think they'll always remember that and not get caught on that any longer.
• 11:04
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 11:06
  I Hate Talking: They will know that one and uh can even perhaps uh entertain their friends with uh asking them the same question and seeing what -- uh their peers -- remember.
• 11:16
  I Hate Talking: Make money on Jeopardy one day.
• 11:19
  I Hate Talking: Indeed.
• 11:20
  I Hate Talking: So that brings us to our word or phrase of this particular episode, and that is a phrase, and it is the phrase change fatigue.
• 11:33
  I Hate Talking: Mm I want to hear what you have to say about it, but I feel this deep in my soul.
• 11:41
  I Hate Talking: School is just about to start and I am not ready for it.
• 11:46
  I Hate Talking: I enjoy summer and our vacations, and I'm not ready to start real life again.
• 11:53
  I Hate Talking: So I feel like we've finally got into a good swing of things with summer, and I'm not ready to change things and get into a different routine.
• 12:04
  I Hate Talking: Yep, so that is, I think maybe perhaps.
• 12:08
  I Hate Talking: Somewhat change fatigue, uh, the particular phrase change fatigue when you look at, you know, some of the definitions which are actually typically given in regards to more of a workplace change fatigue where there's constant and relentless change that occurs within the workplace, uh, and then that leads to exhaustion or cynicism.
• 12:35
  I Hate Talking: That occurs when uh those people within those organizations deal with those frequent and or complex changes.
• 12:45
  I Hate Talking: Now, I do think that what I had in mind in terms of this phrase is broader than that, right, where we perhaps have some of this change fatigue in our daily life or school life or church life or uh just even in a political environment and just uh some of the things in terms of the, the media and how things are portrayed as either good or bad.
• 13:12
  I Hate Talking: That uh the particular phrase change fatigue is broadly applicable, uh, and to some degree, I think.
• 13:19
  I Hate Talking: Some of those seasonal changes are, could be in view, uh, if there's a lot or again, very significant changes, um, I think some of those may fall just within the season of life and the, the seasons themselves in terms of the things that you're enduring as far as change goes.
• 13:41
  I Hate Talking: So you're thinking that, yeah, you're right.
• 13:43
  I Hate Talking: I mean, some of that is just natural.
• 13:45
  I Hate Talking: Um, my Instagram right now is filled with how to decorate for Halloween.
• 13:51
  I Hate Talking: And it's ridiculous cause it's August.
• 13:55
  I Hate Talking: It also makes me excited for that change.
• 13:58
  I Hate Talking: But, uh, it's, it's crazy hot, so I'm excited for cooler weather.
• 14:04
  I Hate Talking: But are you thinking also about Organizations, companies, and that sort of thing, that may change either their minds often or their um change the way they Do things or change their mindset and philosophies on things.
• 14:27
  I Hate Talking: Yep, all the above in terms of the frequent change in terms of philosophy and uh how things are done or even, you know, the best way to do something.
• 14:37
  I Hate Talking: Um, those are very general statements.
• 14:40
  I Hate Talking: So, you know, there could be things where You know, within the workplace, it's to try to stay with the latest trends.
• 14:47
  I Hate Talking: So therefore, you'll have things implemented that are perhaps being implemented just for changes sake and not actually um for the better.
• 14:58
  I Hate Talking: Uh, you could have things where they are, you know, positively intended, but just because there's no consistency that uh again, this particular aspect of change fatigue may Show itself in terms of just uh the change itself being.
• 15:15
  I Hate Talking: Disruptive or complex and just something that changes.
• 15:20
  I Hate Talking: Um, again, some more concrete examples, right?
• 15:23
  I Hate Talking: Like I said, it's in some of the media portrayals, right?
• 15:27
  I Hate Talking: And one decade, you're told that eggs are terrible for you and then in the next they're, you're told that they're the best thing.
• 15:35
  I Hate Talking: Um, a lot of things I think within the diet realm, right, that, uh, follow some of those things that Change often and um nothing really seems to stay very consistent in that space, um, even in the political realm, right?
• 15:52
  I Hate Talking: Uh, The, uh, I think that, um, you know, a number of people would agree with me.
• 15:59
  I Hate Talking: This is actually um something that was discussed on one of the latest Joe Rogan episodes as well is that, uh, Kamala Harris has sort of been, uh, discounted uh in previous time and even within the Democratic Party sort of looked on as a joke or a, you know, not a serious contender and uh now that she has the quote unquote nomination, uh, even though nobody voted for that, uh, that, uh, now everybody is behind her and uh she's the, the next best thing to happen to this country.
• 16:35
  I Hate Talking: So, uh, again, not necessarily direct change, but when we're seeing these Scripts flip uh to such a degree and with such frequency and very quickly that I think it has a psychological impact on the population that is dealing with these things just in terms of losing that consistency and uh to some degree, right, uh, it relates to the Mandela effect because you don't even know what's true.
• 17:08
  I Hate Talking: Right, yeah.
• 17:08
  I Hate Talking: Um, I definitely struggle.
• 17:14
  I Hate Talking: First, I hate change, just in general, like, I really uh have to, when anything changes, I have to uh check myself, cause my instinct is to push back on it.
• 17:27
  I Hate Talking: I know that and I'm working on it.
• 17:30
  I Hate Talking: It's, it's hard, y'all.
• 17:32
  I Hate Talking: So yeah, companies.
• 17:34
  I Hate Talking: Entities, people that are super dogmatic, like, this is what you should eat, or this is what you should do.
• 17:44
  I Hate Talking: And then flip and change their minds.
• 17:49
  I Hate Talking: It's extremely frustrating, and those are the people, groups, etc.
• 17:54
  I Hate Talking: that Over time, I feel like lose a lot of credibility and a lot of respect.
• 18:00
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, it could be, or they will have a large following because everybody seems to not be fatigued by the change and um are interested in saying in whatever that uh particular organization or leader or whatever the case may be, is saying is the correct thing or the uh thing that should be focused on for.
• 18:30
  I Hate Talking: That particular time period because I mean.
• 18:34
  I Hate Talking: Some things do change, right?
• 18:37
  I Hate Talking: Knowledge information does change, and then it's OK to change.
• 18:43
  I Hate Talking: Now that you have more information, Saying, oh, I was wrong before, this is the right way.
• 18:49
  I Hate Talking: But, and I think that's good to follow those people that are humble enough to say, Oh, this is what I did with the best information I had at the time.
• 18:59
  I Hate Talking: But I was wrong.
• 19:01
  I Hate Talking: I think where I struggle is when people don't say that.
• 19:04
  I Hate Talking: And become dogmatic about something different.
• 19:08
  I Hate Talking: Right, and, uh, you know, as it relates to the workplace, one of the ways that is recommended to overcome change fatigue or avoid it altogether is to have a clear plan and communication of change so that when the change happens, it's already in an established manner.
• 19:31
  I Hate Talking: So while the change may be Unpredictable in and of itself, the actual path and mechanism of change is predictable.
• 19:42
  I Hate Talking: And it also does relate not necessarily just to change in and of itself, but also the sheer number of changes as well as like I said, the unpredictability of that change.
• 19:58
  I Hate Talking: So you have more instances of change fatigue when there is just a.
• 20:03
  I Hate Talking: Huge number of changes either in terms of their number or frequency as well as their unpredictability.
• 20:12
  I Hate Talking: So how predictable is the change?
• 20:14
  I Hate Talking: Is it something that is coming out of the blue, uh, so to speak, or is it something that's been, uh, you know, on the horizon and, uh, slowly introduced and, uh, therefore perhaps not as unpredictable or extreme?
• 20:30
  I Hate Talking: Right, yeah.
• 20:31
  I Hate Talking: It makes sense when um it's something that you know could morph, could evolve in something different.
• 20:41
  I Hate Talking: Versus somebody just flip-flopping or somebody just um this is The socially appropriate answer, or just someone doesn't want to do anything anymore, and they get bored of it.
• 20:54
  I Hate Talking: Very true.
• 20:56
  I Hate Talking: So you've experienced this, I guess, in terms of some of the things with the seasonality.
• 21:02
  I Hate Talking: Uh, I personally, I think am fatigued by change at this, uh, current juncture just because of a lot of the things that we've talked about in previous episodes with just all the different outlooks on the financial and economic situation that we find ourselves in.
• 21:20
  I Hate Talking: Uh, a number of things with just in terms of what the uh hot topic is in, uh, my industry and just some of the political things that we see, uh, within our federal and state and local, uh, levels of leadership and things of that nature.
• 21:40
  I Hate Talking: So perhaps, uh, some of our listeners are feeling the same way.
• 21:45
  I Hate Talking: Uh, let us know if you empathize with any of the feelings of these hosts and uh let us know if you are experiencing change fatigue or um if you think this is relevant to a friend or family member, uh, feel free to share this episode as well.
• 22:02
  I Hate Talking: Uh, but we would like to hear from you.
• 22:04
  I Hate Talking: Let us know if this is something relevant or not.
• 22:09
  I Hate Talking: And if it is relevant, uh, we'll wrap up this episode with perhaps some things that we can do.
• 22:15
  I Hate Talking: In our personal lives to combat or avoid change fatigue.
• 22:20
  I Hate Talking: Right?
• 22:21
  I Hate Talking: Or maybe you love change.
• 22:24
  I Hate Talking: There are some people I feel like that thrive in it and get bored very easily.
• 22:28
  I Hate Talking: So, let us know if there's something that you love it and why you love it, and maybe you can convince us to change.
• 22:37
  I Hate Talking: And love change also.
• 22:39
  I Hate Talking: There you go.
• 22:41
  I Hate Talking: So one of the major recommendations from a lot of different uh research that's been done in this area, specifically around even some of the physical and medical impact that change fatigue can have on someone's psyche and uh emotional and physical health is the most critical thing to do is establish some sort of rhythm, whether that be a new rhythm or Uh, establishing a rhythm in terms of something that you do on a regular routine.
• 23:16
  I Hate Talking: So one of the highest rated things in that category is a consistent sleep pattern.
• 23:24
  I Hate Talking: So going to bed and waking at the same time each night and day, respectively.
• 23:32
  I Hate Talking: Uh, obviously, there's a number of things that, uh, may prevent you from doing that, uh, whether that be childcare or work schedules or other commitments that you may have at different times of the night and or day.
• 23:46
  I Hate Talking: Uh, but to the best of your ability, right, controlling, uh, things to make sure that you have a successful Attempt at going to sleep and uh having a consistent waking time, uh like I said, as much as you're able.
• 24:03
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 24:04
  I Hate Talking: The other thing again is just establishing a rhythm of activities that you do on either a daily or weekly basis and uh that could be something as simple as an exercise routine or a particular social club.
• 24:22
  I Hate Talking: Uh one of the examples here is just being part of a Game club or a music group, uh, things that you do with other people to again establish some of those connections and have a routine, um, with some of those things.
• 24:39
  I Hate Talking: Uh, some of these recommendations even go down into some of the things that perhaps we'll save for our next episode on another kind of fatigue is, uh, laying out your clothes for tomorrow, eating at a certain time, meal planning.
• 24:55
  I Hate Talking: Uh, again, so that you have some of those things that are highly predictable because you make them such.
• 25:04
  I Hate Talking: And then one other interesting note is that even within those things that you do, you can give yourself latitude for some variability within that.
• 25:17
  I Hate Talking: So if you're doing an exercise routine, you know, perhaps one day you're going to do more of a cardio, and another day you're gonna do more of a strength exercise, but that those things are all under your own control and you're making the decision.
• 25:31
  I Hate Talking: And therefore making it predictable and that if you are experiencing extreme change fatigue, the recommendation is that you even keep those things consistent and do the same workout, or if you're part of a game club, you play the exact same game, uh, so that again, there is consistency, rhythm, and predictability.
• 25:51
  I Hate Talking: So, from your friends that I hate talking until next time, remember it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.