Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2571 - Jimmy Carr

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#2571 - Jimmy Carr · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, Jimmy. Good to see you, friend.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for introducing me
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to Clarkson.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's fun, right?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Jeremy Clarkson is the best. He's exactly who you think
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: he is. When you see him on TV, that's who
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: he is. He's fucking hilarious. He was so fun to
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: talk to. Such an interesting guy to talk to.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Well, he came down to the mothership last night. I
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: don't think he's been to a comedy club before. That's wild.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: He was like, what's going on? What's the show? I'm
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: doing a thing called Kill Tony. He went, I don't
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: know what that is, Jim. Are you telling jokes? I went,
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I'm sort of judging people.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: And then he got to the mothership and went, can
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I get a rosé? Luckily, I think your missus has
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: a bottle of rosé somewhere, which is now missing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: They keep rosé there for her.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know, the guy he was with, Willman,
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: who's his producer, they're childhood friends. They were in school
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: together and they've done everything together. They're just as thick
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: as thieves.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: The whole origin story, how it started out with a
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: syndicated story, a syndicated article.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: He started, he used to write reviews for cars in
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: the local paper. He would write these articles and he
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: was like, he's always been like a really funny guy.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: So it would be a review of a car, but
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: it would be kind of about life and what's going
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: on in the world as well.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Always.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: And he'd write these really kind of funny piece. And
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: then they decided, well, we can sell it to this
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: local paper. But there's another local paper. And every sort
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: of local paper's got a car section on a Wednesday
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: selling cars. And those guys advertise. And they had to
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: make that look more like a paper. So you could
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: just sell that to every newspaper in the country. So
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: he ended up kind of making a fortune doing that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: And that's how he kind of got his reputation. Wow.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Kind of clever to think about kind of how media
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: changes over the years. That was kind of the old newspapers,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: local papers were the thing.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: And before he started writing the car articles, what was
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: he doing then?
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, nothing.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: He was just like, just a guy. He graduated with nothing,
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: I think. He didn't graduate university. He just was like,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: He's a funny guy. He was showing me his broken
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: finger from when he punched Piers Morgan.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: He's like, do you see that? See that bump? That's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: from punching Piers Morgan.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Well, well done him. He's so fun, man.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: We had a great time.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: You've got to get him on. You've got to get
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: him on.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I would love to. He is a little apprehensive. He
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: says every time he opens his mouth about anything on
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a podcast, the Daily Mail writes a terrible article about him.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: But it's that thing where you've got other people's opinions
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: about me and none of my business.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Like, people are going to write things and that's okay.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: But at some stage, you just have to go, and
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I think it's like a superpower. Not giving a fuck
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: what other people think about you is a superpower. And
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: if you can do that, like, I think, I think
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: comics are maybe better at it because we're not entertainers
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: in the pure sense. I remember this thing like Robbie
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Williams said this thing to me. He said, I'm an
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: entertainer in the pure sense. If you don't love me,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I don't love me.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: Ooh.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: God, I don't think of musicians as being that way.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I would never think of Bob Dylan as that way.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I think Bob Dylan is, I think the difference
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: between an entertainer and an artist is if you say
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: to an artist, I love your new record. And they go, well,
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: that's interesting, but I didn't give a fuck. It's my
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: new record. And I think comics have got that thing
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: where you go, I feel like I write the jokes,
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: but I don't write the show.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Do you really think that an artist would say, I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: don't give a fuck if you like my record?
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's a spectrum of giving a fuck
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: what other people like. But the most important thing is
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: you being able to express yourself. That's the most important thing.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: If you're expressing yourself only... For other people's love and affection,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: like if you're just zooming in on what's going to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: give them the best response, what's going to get me
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the best response, the most love and affection from those people,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: that's a trap.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I think that's audience capture. It's where you become a
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: covers version of yourself. Right. That thing of like that
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: fame being like a weird hall of mirrors where you
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: kind of reflect back what you think they want you
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: to be.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: As opposed to audience capture. Yeah. Finding something kind of
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: exciting to do.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: But I do think that some people who are true artists,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: like I've, I know musicians that are like really good
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: musicians and very popular. And when people come up to
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: them and say they loved a certain song or they
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: loved a certain album, they genuinely get happy.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's possible. Well, I think it's possible to say,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: thank you. I really appreciate that. I'm glad you love
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: that album. I've seen it happen.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I wonder if it's a continuum of like, Okay, so
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: you've got like, I don't know, Picasso at one end going, listen,
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: I do what I do and I've got to express myself.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: And on the other end, it's the guy kind of dancing,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: desperately trying to get the audience on his side.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a spectrum of varying personalities with
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the same kind of goal. The kind of goal for
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: an artist is you have an idea and you want
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: to figure out the best form of it to present
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to other people, right?
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: That's... there's all sorts of mentally ill people to get
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: invested in this too. There's people that are out of
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: their fucking mind. There's, I mean, Jerry Lee Lewis was
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: accused of drowning his wife. He married his, what was it?
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: How old was the girl that he married? Young.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: He famously went on before Chuck. Who, who did he
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: go on before? Was it Chuck? Who, what was the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: story where he lit the piano on fire? Well, there's the,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I think that's where he had to go. He was 22,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and he married his 13-year-old first cousin once removed.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you got to separate the artist from the art.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: That's what they always say, right? But my point is, like,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: you got that, and then you've got, you know, Kurt Cobain.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: You've got Jimi Hendrix.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: You've got Janis Joplin. I'd make a distinction here between–
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Hyper accelerated rationality, like super smart people doing great stuff,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: an actual genius. I think genius always comes with a
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: little sprinkle of crazy. Yes. I think it's like there
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: is a price to pay that you would not want
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: to pay. So whether it's, you know, Michael Jackson or,
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: you know, Kurt Cobain, like tortured souls.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Creating this incredible entertainment for us. Yeah. But they're going
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: to a very dark place. Like I've got a theory
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: about the 27 Club. You know the 27 Club of
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: all the people that died aged 27? These incredible musicians.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix and Amy Winehouse. These incredible artists.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: And I think it's because they are more sensitive than
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: we are. They've got like everything is... They're feeling everything.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: And to be that good. So then they're numbing themselves.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: The drugs are the medication. I need to not feel
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: this anymore.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Well, there's certainly a lot of that going on. No
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: one would deny that. You know, it's just I think
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: whenever you're trying to categorize a group as large as
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: artists and lump them into a specific type of personality
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: traits that, you know, a predetermined pattern of personality traits,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think you could do it. I've just met
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: too many that are so different. I've met like really
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: arrogant ones that are clearly mentally ill. that produce incredible works. Like,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Kanye West clearly has some mental issues. Yeah, I think that's... Man,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: that motherfucker knows how to make some bangers. Yes, it's extraordinary.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: That dude, he's... He's, like, the prime example of, like,
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: you wouldn't want to be... I wouldn't want to be
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: a genius. I'll just do my thing, that's great. But
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: the price to pay to be that great.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I asked Elon Musk once about that, and he said,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to be me. He goes, you wouldn't
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: want to... He goes... I just, my brain never stops moving.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's horrible.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I kind of think that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Thing about- There's like a storm going on in my
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: head all the time.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I sometimes think about that with anxiety. You know the
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: idea that like, anxiety is thought without control. And a
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: flow state is control without thought. Like the idea that
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: you could be in a flow state where you're not,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: you're kind of, you're not thinking you're just doing the thing.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Sometimes on stage you can hit that. And then, but
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: the anxiety- All of the anxiety that I have, if
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: I wake up and I have a panic attack and
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of, my mind is spinning, is also the
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: thing that's written every joke I've ever written and done
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: everything I've ever done. That kind of, that nervous energy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: So there's always like a positive to it. But taken
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: to its extreme, where you go, the guy can't relax.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: The guy can't sort of, I mean, I think, here's
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: my theory on Elon Musk. I think he's going to
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: find religion in the next 12 months. Because, right, there's
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: a theory, right? There's four things that keep us from God, right? Okay,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: so fame, fortune, power, and pleasure. And I think he's
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: won every one of those games. I think he's going
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: to get bored, and he's going to have to go
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: and find God.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Fame, fortune, power, pleasure.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Maybe he creates God. Maybe that's what they're in the
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: middle of doing with these fucking computers.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I'm with Hegel and Nietzsche on this, right? So I
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: don't think we were created in God's image. But I
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: think we so wanted there to be a God that
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: we created one in our image. I'm going to describe
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: something to you. It's all powerful, all knowing, it can
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: create miracles, and it lives in a cloud. Now, am
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: I talking about God or AI? And both Hegel and
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Nietzsche got to this 150 years ago. They went, well,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: is the universe, was God there for the Big Bang?
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Or is the universe a device for creating God?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: That's what I believe as well. I believe that it's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: the whole reason why we innovate. It's the whole reason
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: why we're obsessed with material possessions. I think all of
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that fuels innovation. And the innovation eventually fuels the creation
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: of a digital life form And it used to sound
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: like science fiction until about 20 years ago. And now
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: we're deep in the middle of it where it's undeniable.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: It's interesting because you like the Egyptian culture, right? The
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: myths and legends and the pyramids. Because it strikes me
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: that the Greeks got a lot from the Egyptians. Right.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: The Greeks basically looked at the Egyptians and went, oh,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: they fell to nothing because they never innovated. They never
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: changed anything. So the Greeks kind of wanted not to make,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: they didn't want to make that mistake. Like we live
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: closer to Cleopatra than Cleopatra lived to the, Building of
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the Pyramids.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: That's like a weird fact. Because once they had it
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: locked in, they just went, okay, that's us. This is
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: our system. As opposed to the.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: That's a narrative of history. And you should look into
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the work of your fellow countryman, Graham Hancock. Do you
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: know who he is?
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: No, I don't know him.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, Graham Hancock had a show on Netflix called... for
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: two seasons, I don't know if they're gonna do a third,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: but it's called Ancient Apocalypse. Is that it? That's it, right?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And it's all about.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: How- Was this made for you?
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: No.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: It feels like it was made specifically for you.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I've been a fan of his for a long time.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: He was actually one of the first guests I ever
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: had on this podcast, actual guest. Oh, wow, okay. Other
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: than being comedian friends of mine, me and Duncan convinced
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: him to do the podcast when the podcast was like,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: no one was on it.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: I think I have heard this guy on here. When
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: he came back.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: He's been on many, many times. He's a very good
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: friend of mine now. I love him to death. But
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I think he's right. And I think he's not alone now.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: There's dozens of legitimate archaeologists that share his ideas. And
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: then on top of that, you have people that are
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: studying impacts on Earth from extrastellar or interstellar. Any kind
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of asteroid, comet impacts, all those different things. There's a
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: lot more information about that now than they've ever had before.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And there's a big one that aligns up with the
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: end of this previous civilization that probably created all these
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: great works and what we have now. And this sort
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: of 5,000 year period of reconstruction of civilization.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Let me see if I can tie all of this together. Okay. Okay. Artists,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Elon Musk's and the pyramids.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: And AI.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Here we go. And AI.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Here we go.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: I think this is Terence McKenna's point originally. So Pyramids
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: and rockets are the same thing.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: How's that?
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, so it's a huge amount of human capital is
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: used to send a chosen few to the heavens. That's
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: what a pyramid is for.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's what a pyramid's for.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: And that is what a rocket is for.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of debate on what the pyramid's for now,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: but most likely it was some sort of a device.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: They were using it for something.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: But again, it's for the transcendent is the idea.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: So his take was.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: That idea doesn't hold up anymore. There's a lot of
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: information about the actual design of the inner dimensions of
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the pyramid that leads a lot of legitimate, especially younger
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: archaeologists now, to try to examine what exactly this thing is.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Do you know about all the new discoveries that they
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: found because of the ground-penetrating radar?
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I kind of don't know what to make of
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: it because it feels to me like the news cycle now,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: it feels like that would have been a year's worth
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: of news had that happened 15 years ago. And now
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: it feels like we move on so quickly.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Well, the problem is it's very gatekept in Egypt. Like
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that guy that I had on my podcast, Zahi Hawass,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: he's in charge of whatever gets distributed about whatever official narrative,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: whatever– press releases, he's sort of at the front of
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the line, and he has been for a long time.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: And they're very reluctant to give up those reigns to
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: any new discovery that doesn't have his name on it
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and doesn't have their name on it. It's not approved
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: by them. It's a real problem because there's this labyrinth
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that was discovered by, well, it was documented by Herodotus.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So we're talking thousands of years ago. This incredible structure
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: underneath Herodotus Giza that's greater than Giza. Now, they know
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that's real now. They've used ground penetrating radar now. And
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: there was also an explorer, I think, was it the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: 1800s who went down there? But he could only go
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: so far. So the water table changed. They had built
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a dam in the 1960s, and that really fucked it
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: up where they can't go back in there anymore. And
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: so when they built this dam to help agriculture, it
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: raised the water table all around the Giza Plateau. And
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: this labyrinth, this incredible underground structure was all flooded. So
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out what to do about that now.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: But because of ground-penetrating radar, not only do they know
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that this exists without doubt, like they can absolutely document
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the immense size, but that there's also a 40-meter-long metallic
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: object that's in the center of a large atrium that
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: looks like a tic-tac. They don't know what it is.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: They don't know what metal it is. But they do
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: know it's made out of metal and it's 40 meters long.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And it's underground in this insane structure.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: And this is from 5,000 years ago?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Probably longer. This is the real problem. The real problem
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: is we don't know what the origin story of humanity is. accurately.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: We don't know. This is what the Jesus story is
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and the Adam and Eve story. There's all these stories.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: But what we get is there was probably some sort
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of an event. And then people talked about it for
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: hundreds of years before anybody ever wrote it down. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: no one who wrote it down was there. And no
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: one has an accurate, a really accurate representation of what
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: that person says, including the works of Jesus.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, this is like, I suppose it's that thing
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: of the the carcass of the whale. Like the idea
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: that we're living in a world that we couldn't build again. Like,
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: you know, from Britain, you go, we were the first
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: industrializing nation, right? We built the first railways. And now
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: we are totally incapable of building a railway. Like the
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: last 15 years, 20 years, the Chinese have covered themselves
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: in high-speed rail. And we've covered ourselves in environmental reports.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: We seem incapable of kind of getting shit done. So
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: you go, you have these weird things where you go
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: The pyramids are there and we've kind of lost the
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: instruction manual. We couldn't do that again now if we tried.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: It's a weird thing with civilizations where they kind of,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know, like how did Rome fall? There's a
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: theory about like how civilizations fall. Peter Turchin has this
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: really good theory, which is it's two things. One is
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: inequality and one is the overproduction of elites. So you
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: have too many people becoming elites and then they don't
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: get what is promised to the elites because you open up.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: So too many people go to university. If half of
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: everyone goes to university, then they can't and they get
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: the degree and they work hard and then they don't
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: get the life that they were promised. Then they become
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: a counter elite and they rebel against the elite and
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: the inequality becomes too great and everything crumbles. That's his
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: kind of theory through history of how you know, societies
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: kind of come crashing down.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Well, that's certainly a factor. And we're experiencing that right now.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I think the factor that they were dealing with was
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: asteroid impacts and documented ones. So this is a part
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: of the Younger Dryas theory that's undeniable, is that they've
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: done ice core samples. And in these ice core samples,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: they find high levels of iridium in a lot of areas.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Iridium is very common in space, very rare on Earth.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: When there's a layer of it, it usually indicates that
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: we were hit. And this is all around that same
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: time period of 11,000 years ago.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting as well, like what effect that has
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: on the greater, on the globe. Like there's that famous
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: case of like, people talk about, you know, the environment,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: what's going on with our environment. And really Krakatoa is
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: a great example, right? So when Krakatoa went off, it
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: was such a big volcanic eruption. There was no summer
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: in Europe the next year because all of the particles
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: went up into the stratosphere, above the stratosphere, and they
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: reflected light. So the earth cooled by like, Two degrees.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: What year was this?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: This is 18, he'll know. 1883?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Like no summer in Europe. And Europe was, I guess,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: probably no summer in the world, but they didn't measure
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: it anywhere else. So there's kind of mass starvation off
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: the back of that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Right, of course.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: And again, you know, like... civil unrest and people kind
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: of falling to pieces.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Do you know about the Toba one, the Toba volcano?
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: There was one that's, what was it? Was that 70,000
• 18:54
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• 19:40
  Speaker 2: It knocked humanity down to a few thousand people. I
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: think 60,000 is the lowest we got to, I think.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Which is extraordinary when you think about it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: From a super volcano. And so a super volcano is,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not extraterrestrial. It's a thing that's actually here.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: It's a natural disaster that occurs periodically on Earth, whereas
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the sky is a shooting gallery. And we are in
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the middle of a crazy pathway where we run into
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: 900-plus thousand near-Earth objects. And we're spiraling through the galaxy,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: hurling into space... at an insane rate of speed.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, it kind of makes me feel dizzy.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: City-sized objects that are just floating around and occasionally they
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: come rocking in at five times the speed of sound
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and slam into the earth and it rings like a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: bell for a million years. And that's what killed the dinosaurs.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Within seconds, it was miles into the earth.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: The dinosaurs were, I forget what the name is. There's
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: a biological term for it, but the, the eggs below
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: a certain temperature were male and above a certain temperature
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: were female. Dinosaur eggs. And that worked pretty well for
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the distribution of gender. And so when the asteroid hit,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: obviously it kills a couple of dinosaurs that it hits,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: but what really happens is the Earth cools by two
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: degrees and their system just goes. So they're all born female.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: And then they all die out. So any animal with
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: that system. So then there's ones that didn't die out
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: that didn't have that system. So the reason, you know,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: crocodiles or sharks... Things from that era that just didn't
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: depend on that system for gender distribution.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I was just reading about an animal, some sort of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a reptile that they just recently observed getting pregnant without
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a male involved. And that this was unsuspected. They didn't
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: think that they could do this. God, I wish I
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was paying more attention to it. But that happens all
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the time in the weird lizard world. Like the same
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: kind of creatures that can grow their own legs back
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: when they lose a leg. What's that? What's going on there?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: What the fuck is going on there? And how come
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: we can't do that? They also get heavily affected. Their
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: sexual organs get affected by things like atrazine. You know
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: that stuff that gets dumped into the water that turns,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Alex Jones famously said, turns frogs gay.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Turns out it really does. Turns out it really does.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: It really changes their gender. It turns a male frog
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: into a female frog.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we're messing around with stuff we don't.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: That can't be good, can it?
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: No, but it's just weird to me how the lizard
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: world is so odd like that. They're so much different
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: than the rest of us. Like the lizard world, we
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: should be very terrified if we ever get invaded by reptiles.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Like if reptilian aliens are a real thing.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I'll make a note of that somewhere. Yeah, I mean,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: that seems like a pretty good idea.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: They can grow their limbs back. Also, some of them
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: don't need to eat for a year. Like crocodiles, they
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: can not eat for a whole year. They can hold
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: their breath underwater for hours at a time, slow their
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: heart rate down to almost nothing.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm with you. If we get
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: invaded by crocodiles, I think we need to take it
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: very seriously. It might bring humanity together, which would be
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: the good thing.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Something would, like another 9-11 or something. Almost we need
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to be attacked. We're so divided right now.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Inequality is the big thing that Peter Turchin talks about,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: like bringing down civilizations. But this other guy did a
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: study on the things that cause equality. And they're four things, right?
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: So you've got to be careful what you wish for
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: because the things that cause equality to happen are it's war, revolution,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: civilizational collapse, and pandemics.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Like those are the things that equal out society. So
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: it's like it's terrible. Terrible.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: The pandemic did for a little bit, I think. I
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: think in the beginning, it kind of brought people together
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and sort of settled people down to like what was
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: actually important in life. The very early days when we
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: were really worried that people were going to die from it,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: there was like no one knew what the severity of
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the infection was. And we're just hearing about this disease
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: from China. We're locking down the country. That was genuinely
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: terrifying and sobering.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Everyone went through the same thing. Yes. Everyone had the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: same experience. People reacted very differently to it, but everyone
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: went through the same experience, like that kind of– the
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: global lockdown.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Right. But it– It wasn't uniting though after a while.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Because after a while, it became very divisive, especially when
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: there was the whole are you with or without the vaccines?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Like are you Apple or are you Android? It's like–
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: it's one of those tribal things that people do. Are
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: you Republican? Are you a Democrat? Even whether– They're skeptical
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: about pharmaceutical drug companies. Normally, they'll abandon all that if
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: there's some sort of an ideological group that you're a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: part of that thinks one way or another. And that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: happened during the pandemic, which I never thought we would see.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's a little window.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Fierce fights about pharmaceutical drugs and whether or not you
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: believe in the pharmaceutical drug company and that the people
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: on the left. would be the ones that were telling
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: you these massive multi-billion dollar corporations that have the highest
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: criminal fines in all of human history. Those are the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: ones we should be trusting. But that happened in this country.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And it happened all around the world.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: It happened all over the world. I mean, it was
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: a shit show. I mean, it shut down everything.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: But that was the divide. The divide was the medication
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: and what path we took to get out of it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: If that didn't exist, if it was just there is no...
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: There's no medication. The only thing you could do is
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: be healthy enough to be resilient and get through the cold,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: but we're all going to get it. If that was
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the narrative.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Is this not what's happening right now, though, in terms
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: of going, if you look at what we're doing, right?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Gain-of-function research, which is it almost certainly came from gain-of-function research,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: which is like looking for a gas leak with a
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: lit match, right? So it's just inherently dangerous. But this
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: is kind of the, I don't know if it is
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: even a conspiracy now, but the search for AGI. strikes
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: me as a similar kind of thing, right? You're searching
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: for the last invention, the last thing that you'll ever need.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: You heard the conspiracy about solstice.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I think AGI has a legitimate potential to change
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: our lives for the better. It's just, will it?
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Yes. Is it Star Trek or Star Wars?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: There's no way these engineering viruses to be more virulent
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to infect more people more easily, to kill people more.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: There's no way that's good. There's nothing good out of that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: But the AGI potentially could change society, potentially for the better.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: It's like, what's the number? How does it go?
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a knife edge of life.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: But gain-of-function's not doing anything good for us. There was
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: no cure. They had all these diseases that they engineered,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: and they had no idea how to treat them.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: No, I remember they wiped out polio in the 50s,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: and then they... And then they kept some.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: You should look into that story too. But they kept some.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: That story's kind of fucking crazy too. You know what?
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I heard the lady on here talking about it. But
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's like you go, they definitely, polio was something.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Well, polio still is a problem. But the real problem
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: back then was there was polio and then there was
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: DDT spraying. And that's a big part of the story.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: A gigantic part of the story is that the polio
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: epidemic in America aligns with DDT use. Ubiquitous DDT use
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: all over the country. And DDT was... Poisoning has the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: exact same symptoms of paralytic polio It's the same symptoms
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: and in fact a lot of animals during that same
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: time period cows horses farm animals in rural areas We're
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: getting polio same symptoms. Why because it's fucking DDT poisoning, right?
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: So but John will follow this that like that was
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: just spraying the neighborhood you.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Wanted Yes, and that's what happened that happened all across
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: America What percentage of polio do you think is asymptomatic?
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: No idea.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Take a guess.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Are you symptomatic?
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no symptoms at all. You got polio? 95 to 99. Wow. Yeah.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: We'll look that up just so you know it's accurate. Wow.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: That's the real number.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: That's the real number. And so we don't know how
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: much of what happened during the polio crisis was polio,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: which can certainly hurt people. Certainly not good to get polio.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Certainly not good to get paralytic polio.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Certainly.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: No one's saying that. However, the DDT use was happening
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: at the same time. This is 70%, but I've seen
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it listed as 95% recently. So I don't know.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Why this- But hey, it's not like 70% isn't interesting.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: No, it's certainly- So this is like- No symptoms at all.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: 70% of the people get no symptoms. Now, I had
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: read that it was 95% to 99%. I'm interested. Put
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: it into a different search engine and see if there's other.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Is this maybe the worst thing?
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Hold on. This is why it is. I'm sorry. Put
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: it back up. It explained it. So 70%, no symptoms whatsoever,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: approximately 25% mild symptoms, such as fever, headache, or sore throat.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: All right, I've got a sore throat. It's not polio.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: It's not developing paralysis. It's not the same as being asymptomatic.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: So you have mild symptoms for 25% of the people
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and zero symptoms for 70% of the people.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's still a terrible disease, but even
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: if you look at that and go.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Terrible disease. However, so is spraying DDT ubiquitously in neighborhoods.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: That's fucking terrible, too. And this is the dirty secret
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: about the whole polio crisis. It's not that polio is
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: good to get. No big deal. Go get polio. Fuck that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Don't get polio. Polio's bad. However... They were spraying DDT
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: everywhere and it gives you the same fucking symptoms. And
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the two things stopped when they stopped spraying DDT everywhere.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Suzanne Humphries, she's a guest on the show. I just
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: want to tell people that are listening. There's a great
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: book called Dissolving Illusions. And if you just countercheck all
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: the things that she put in that book, you can
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: read it all online. You'll find out she's telling the truth.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: And it's indicative of the same shit that we just
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: went through with the COVID epidemic. It's indicative of– there's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a ton of different stories of what we think are
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: good pharmaceutical drug solutions for a problem that's happening that
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: turn out to be horrendous for people and give them
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: terrible side effects. And you see all these people that
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: are suing and you find that pharmaceutical drug companies can
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: make money off of it even though it was killing people.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Like the– there's a Vioxx example in America. It was
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: an anti-inflammatory medication and they were giving it to people.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Fifty thousand plus people died. They got strokes. They knew
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that people were going to get strokes before they released it,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: but they did it because they knew they could make
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: money off of it. And this is just this continual
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: pattern that we can see throughout history. We want to
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: believe in these institutions, but oftentimes these institutions are corrupted
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: by money. And when we find out that they're corrupted
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: by money, it's too late. They've already poisoned you or
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: they've already given you some drugs that cause strokes.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Here's a strange thing. I've been traveling around Canada, America
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: on tour. I'm kind of always on the road and
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: You notice things, right? So you notice like the fentanyl
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: thing happens in North America.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But it does not happen in Europe.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: The Sackler family. Do you know the whole story?
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Well, I remember the kind of controversy about people giving
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: out the idea that you should never be in pain. Right.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Was kind of promoted. The idea that any kind of
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: pain or discomfort is unacceptable. So you need to be
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: no pain at all. So pushing the idea of those painkillers,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: which were opiates.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, not just that, but also saying that they're
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: non-addictive and then also promoting this idea that you just
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: kind of on them all the time and everything's fine.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: And that's what you need. Just be on them all
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the time and you're going to be fine. And they
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: got doctors to go along with this. They got doctors
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: to subscribe to these ideas and promote them.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: But the fentanyl.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Because it's an opiate.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but the idea, how is that happening only in
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: North America?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Well, because we're next to Mexico. We're connected to Mexico.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And that's where it's coming in. And China is bringing
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: in the precursors. So China ships the precursors to Mexico.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: The cartel makes the fentanyl. They sneak it across the border.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And that has been going on because there's an opioid
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: crisis in America. Mariana Van Zeller, do you know who
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: she is?
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: No.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Brilliant reporter. I mean, like a real courageous woman. Boots
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: on the ground journalism. Went to Columbia and was with
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: people while they were making cocaine and walked with them
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: through the jungle as they packed it out. She goes
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to crazy places where she can get killed all the time.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And she started out– well, I became introduced to her
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: from a piece she did called the OxyContin Express. And
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the OxyContin Express, it was all about Florida. And Florida
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: had these pain management centers. And say if you hurt
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: your back, you go to a pain– oh, I'm in pain. Well,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you should go to the pain center. If you don't
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: know anything about how corrupt the medical system is, you
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: would go, oh, that's the thing you go to for pain.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: They're pain experts. Fine. They probably tell me what to do.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: You go there. They only prescribe OxyContin. So there's a
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: pharmacy connected to the pain management center. You go to
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the pain management center, what's wrong, Jimmy? Your back hurts?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I gotcha. You go right next door, right next door,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and all they sell is OxyContin and no database. So
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you leave that pain management center and you go to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: another pain management center a mile away. And then you
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: go to another pain center and they're all over Florida.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: And so people would go and fill their trunks up
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: with OxyContin and then drive up through Kentucky and Ohio.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And that's the OxyContin Express. And that made addicts like
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: traceable destruction of communities all throughout the land. And this
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: was all because of corrupt politics. It was all because
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: of corrupt pharmaceutical representatives. It was because of corrupt doctors
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: that everybody turned a blind eye to make a ton
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: of money. And most importantly, the Sackler family. This one
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: family made billions and billions of dollars promoting this idea
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: that you should be on pills all the time.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a horror show.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: They're not in jail. They're not in jail.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: It's a horror show out there. There's certain cities that
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: just seem to be so hard hit by this. The
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: middle of the town is like an interactive Walking Dead experience.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: It's like just people bent double on this drug. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: you go, well, no one seems to be helping. There
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be any help for these people.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: It is really good at getting you. It's really good.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: It gets disciplined people. It gets people that have like
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: a work ethic and a good family.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Remember when crystal meth kind of first happened? Because that, again,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: only happened in America. It didn't happen in Europe.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Like I'm not saying we don't have a problem with
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: drugs in Europe, but it's not to the same extent.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: And the idea– remember that poster? There used to be
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: a poster of a lady. She was a good-looking girl.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: And then over the course of like six years or
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: ten years, she became kind of, you know– Attainable. Like–
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Ashen-faced and sunken and whatever.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: You got to lower her standards if you want her
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to go on a date with you. Get her on meth.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: But that was like, it seems to take people out
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: in just a matter of weeks now.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Well, fentanyl and meth are very different things. So meth
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: is an amphetamine, obviously. And amphetamines, there are a ton
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of people in this country right now who are addicted
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: to amphetamines legally. It's called Adderall. And you can make
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: up all your reasons why people need it. I don't
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: have any energy. I have ADHD. I can't concentrate. They
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: will fucking give it to you. They will give it
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to you pretty easy. You just complain a bunch of times,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: come in with a lot of brain fog. It'd be
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: so easy to dupe your doctor into giving you Adderall.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: 100% it would be easy to do.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And it's legal for them to do. And what is
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: it basically?
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: It's fucking speed.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Okay.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: You know, she was a rough 28. Right? She looks
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: like a 28 bare-knuckle boxer. Like one of them bare-knuckle
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: boxer chicks with scars all over their face. She looks
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: like she had a hard life.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, at 33, she's pretty attainable. I think I could, yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: You could have got her at 33.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's attainable, yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: There's always going to be addictions that you can avoid, right?
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Like a great one is gambling. It's very controversial in America. Like,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: should gambling be legal?
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I'm a guy who's been to Vegas a million times.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I'm a guy who is, I work for the UFC.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I do comedy shows in Vegas. I'm always, I like
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the idea of going there. Don't blow all your money, stupid.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: It's like, at what point in time do we take
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: responsibility for, if you don't have any money, don't gamble it.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's that thing with, I think young men,
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've got a bit on this, like a,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: not a joke, but like an idea on this. I'm like,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you know, young men in crisis. I'm like, I'm pro-gang, pro-gang, pro-gambling,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: and pro-drinking. Like, I think, you know, that thing of
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: like gambling is not sports gambling, not gambling or something
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: to give you a cheap little dopamine hit whenever you
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: need it. Like that thing of like the interval reward system.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: So you have gatekeeped gambling?
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: No, no, the idea of gambling on yourself. The idea
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: of like the big gamble in life. If you take
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: a big gamble, then you don't need those little gambles, right?
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: We got very lucky. We got into comedy. So it's like,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: it's a gamble. I'm going to try this line. It's like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: we get the dopamine. There's good ways to get it
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: and bad ways to get it. So encouraging the good ways.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Human nature is fixed and flawed, right? Young men are
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: going to want dopamine and risk. But how do we
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: sort of point them towards something that's useful? So my
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: thing was like, gangs, terrible. Gangs, you know, shoot each
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: other and deal drugs.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: But not all of them.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: A lot of gangs are just young men together. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: the idea of like drinking, like I've set up youth
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: clubs all around Great Britain, right? And there's pool tables
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: and there's jukeboxes and music and there's booze.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Social places.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: No, they're called pubs.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And that's where I think young men, where should they be? Together.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: They check each other very well. But the idea that
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: they should be together, the drinking age should reflect reality
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: rather than a wish. Like it's 21 in America. That's insane.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: 16-year-olds drink. I don't think they should be allowed to
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: drink alone, it should be a social thing that we
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: go as humans, we go, okay, where do you learn
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: to get on socially with other people? It's not the school.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: It can be a bar, but the bar can have
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: a football team and a baseball team, and it can
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: be a place where you learn how to interact with
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: other people.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: We should also explain to them that it does affect
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: your brain development, and you should be very careful about
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: getting drunk or high when you're young. Don't do it
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: a lot. It's bad for you. I was going to
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: flesh out my point about gambling. I have this opinion
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: about gambling. Don't gamble if you can't afford to lose.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: And if you've got a problem, stop gambling. But I
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: have seen it. The problem is I've seen the grip
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: of it. I've seen it gradually. people. I've seen people.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Did you ever see Uncut Gems, that Adam Sandler movie?
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: That was like. So it was like anxiety in celluloid form.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Genius film.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: It's so good. He's such a great actor.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: He's amazing. And he plays that gambling addict so well.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: When I was between the ages of like 23 to 27,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I spent all my time at pool halls. I was
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: addicted to playing pool. I played in tournaments, played constantly.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I was around... gambling addicts 24 hours a day.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: So this is The Hustler, this is Color of Money.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the real thing. Was it
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: all money?
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: Everything was money. So you're playing for money all the time.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: It's not fun.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Well, no, people played for fun, people like me who suck.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: But the really, really good players, they always played for money.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: They only played for money. They practice, and then they
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: played for money. And it was all about gambling. It
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: was all about action. Everybody was in action. You would
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: go to the pool hall. It was gambling all the time.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: It was gambling on sports. It was off-track betting before
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: they got there. They would go to off-track betting and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: bet on the races. And then they would come and
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: complain about the races that they lost. And then they
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: would get into card games until someone showed up that
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: wanted action. And someone would show up and they wanted
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: to bet. And then people would be betting on the sidelines.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: If you and Jamie were playing, I put my money
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: on you. Let's go. Come on. And now you're sweating it.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: You got a sweat bet going on. And somebody wants
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to get in on it. You know, I want two
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: games on the wire. Okay, you got two. So he
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: might lose, but I might still win because he's got
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: two games on the wire. So there's all these, like,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: crazy gambles that are going on all the time. 24
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: hours a day.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: So how did you not get sucked into that? Because
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: you were very into it. I mean, you're, like, quite
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: an obsessive guy. But, like, when you did... uh, mixed
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: martial arts, you're all in who do comedy. You're all
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: in like you're all into things. And yet somehow gambling
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: didn't capture.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Cause I saw what it was. I saw this is a, this,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: this is a dopamine rollercoaster and you're going to be here.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: If I come back 30 years from now and you
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: won't have moved, you're going to be doing the same
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: goddamn thing. And there was this guy, my friend, Tommy,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I have a really good friend who has been my
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: friend for 34 years. And, um, I met Tommy when
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: he was like 19 years old. I was in my 20s.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: And when I met Tommy, he was the best pool
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: player in Connecticut. It's like legitimate world-class potential pool player.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Like big time gambler. He'd gamble for thousands and thousands
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: of dollars. I'd see him all the time. And he
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: was one of the best players like in the Northeast,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: which is one of the strongest pool areas in the
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: country at a young age. He was playing this guy
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: named Neptune Joe Frady. Neptune Joe Frady was.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: It's a great name, isn't it?
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Bro, Neptune Joe Frady never stopped smoking cigarettes. And when
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: he was holding his cue, he'd put the cigarette in
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: between the fingers of his cue like this. So while
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: he's playing.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: You know that was the thing with Minnesota Fats in
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: The Hustler?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Did he do that?
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: He smoked a cigarette in that... Weirdly in that, yeah.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: And that's the comic, wasn't it?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: In his hand while he was shooting? I think he
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: laid it on the table.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, no, he maybe laid it on there. But I
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: remember he smoked the cigarette and threw that. I always
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: remember kind of Minnesota facts because he was a comic.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I only ever knew him from that movie.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Jackie Lee, you mean?
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: But I never knew his comedy. I'd never seen him
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: in anything else. I'd just seen him in that.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's crazy.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: And I went, oh, that guy was a. Because I
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: didn't have any of the reference to the thing, but
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: just like that movie.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: So this guy, Neptune Joe Frady, was one of the
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: best players in the world. And one of the best
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: players in the East Coast for sure. And Tommy was
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: playing this guy and they were grinding it out. And
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: this guy didn't have $ 10 to his name. He's like,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I can barely beat this guy. And this guy is
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: completely broke. And he's one of the best pool players
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: in the world. And this is where it leads you.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: It leads you to this, where it just, you're not
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: going anywhere. You're stuck.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: You're stuck doing this thing that doesn't pay any money.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: How lucky did we get, right? My whole thing is
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: like gratitude, right? So when I got into comedy in
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: the UK around 2000, right? It was field hockey. It
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: was darts. It was lacrosse. It was a minority sport.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: And now it's premiership football, right? And how lucky did
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: I get to ride... that wave in that time. I
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: was just interested in this thing that wasn't particularly popular
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: at the time. And it just became something huge. But
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: you're like, people play arenas now. It's crazy. And with pool,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: pool could have become the thing. But, you know, it didn't.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: You backed the right horse. You got so lucky. Like,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: MMA didn't even exist when you were into it. It
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: didn't exist. Like, martial arts was a thing, but MMA
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: hadn't even really been formed.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: It's the luck of being there.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I'm super lucky.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Well, then podcasting.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Well, podcasting, like the idea of just going, I'm just
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: going to do my own thing.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: And the thing that we were doing it when no
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: one was watching. So we were doing it, we'd get
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: like a thousand viewers, 2,000 viewers. And now you're getting 4,000.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Crazy.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Things move up.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: But the idea of like that.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You ever consider that? Oh, I think about it all
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I do a practice. I just, I'm constantly like, I
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: think that thing, gratitude is the mother of all virtues.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: That you're constantly reminding yourself like of like, we live now,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: we do this. We get to do this, like finding
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: the thing that you could be excited about. You spoke
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: to Chris Williamson about this recently. He's got this really
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: lovely take on discipline, motivation, and obsession. Like the idea,
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: like discipline is you force yourself to do the thing.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: And that will get you two weeks into January doing
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: sit-ups and no further. And then there's motivation. I want
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: to do this thing. I want to do it. And
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: then there's obsession. I can't not do this thing. And
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: we're very lucky in life that we found obsessions. Things
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: that it doesn't, you know, we're just like, I would
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: do it if there's no money and it doesn't matter.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: I'm just, I'm into it.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: The issue with pool, your story about pool there is
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: that it was all about money. It wasn't about the
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: joy of the game, the beauty of that game.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: There's money in tournaments now, a lot more money than
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: there was back when I was playing eight hours a day.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: So there's guys at the top of the heap that
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: can make a very good living playing pool but only
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: a few, only a handful, maybe 10, 10 guys, maybe
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: 20 worldwide that are making– well, not worldwide because China
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: is doing some crazy things. China is paying like half
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a million dollars for the winners of tournaments now. They're
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: putting on these different pool tournaments in China. They actually
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: have a different table though. And it's kind of– it's
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: really complicated. And when players try to switch over, it's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: a real problem. It's called– What's the difference in the table?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Their corner pockets and their side pockets are curved like
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: a snooker table.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: So the thing about pool is it's all about– it
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: looks like a ball goes into the hole. You're hitting
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the ball with a stick. But what it really is
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: is geometry. And you are breaking the table down into
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: sections where you want a ball to be and how
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you're going to move and what angle you have to
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: approach this ball on so that as you knock it in,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you're going this way to get to the other. As
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: soon as you change any of the dimensions of the table,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: all the geometry changes. And one of the things that
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: changes is the shape of the pockets. So the shape
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: of the pockets don't accept a ball down the rail.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: So if there's a hole right here and there's a
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: ball right here, I have to really gently roll that
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: ball in. I can't fire it in. But in a
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: pool table, I can fire it in with follow and
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: move that ball around the table and get to my
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: next shot. With a Chinese table, I can't do that.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: It requires the most insane pinpoint accuracy. It's a tiny
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: little pocket with a curved edge on each side. But
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: those guys are paying a half a million dollars for
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: a more boring game, unfortunately. Because it's just like everybody
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: misses all the time. People miss ball in hand. It's
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: like it's a really brutal game.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Right. Okay. Yeah, weird.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: It's weird because they don't run out as much. So, like,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: what's exciting about pool is someone breaks, they have a
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: shot on the one ball, and they run the rack.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: And then everyone's like, ah. Or there's a battle back
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and forth between two guys and they're playing safeties. But
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: when you have a table where it's like 30% harder
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: to make a ball, that's what it looks like. See
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: how it's curved like that? So if you show a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: larger image of the table, the problem is, just so
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: you can see it from, yeah, that second picture that
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: you just had, that's it. Okay, so that's what they
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: look like. They look like, roll in there. It looks
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: like a snooker table in terms of the way it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: curved in the corners. Make that a little larger, please.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: So if I'm shooting a ball, like, say, in that
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: upper left-hand corner, dude, my margin of error is like
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: this on each side. Like millimeters on each side. So
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: it just makes for a brutal, pokey, fucking scared-ass game.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Nobody's going to break.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: You're shoving it around the table.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: No one's going to smooth stroke any balls and get out.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: It's just too hard. That's a regular pool table. See,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: on a regular pool table, you see everything has these
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: angles where as you're going, like. I'm trying to find.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Just show me a regular pool table.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know what.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: That's a regular pool table right there. The reason why
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: you can tell is if you see the corner pockets,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: this is a diamond. They're the best tables. If you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: see the corner pocket, see how there's this black piece
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: of leather and that angle? Yeah, right where to the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: left of Jamie's cursor, that angle's straight. On a Chinese table,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: that's rounded. And so you can't fire a ball in there.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: It's not going to go in. And even by fire
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: a ball in, I mean hit it with a firm stroke.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: It's challenging.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: The game. But they're paying half a million dollars. So
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: people are going to China to play in these tournaments
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: now because they're gigantic because China is really into billiards,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: like really, really into billiards. And some of the best
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: players in the world are coming out of there, particularly
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: out of Taiwan, out of Chinese Taipei. The best players
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: on earth come from there. They're insanely good. They have
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: these schools. They practice eight hours a day. And they
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: have regiments. Oh, yeah.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I'm an addict.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: But all of those things, right?
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Martial arts.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: Martial arts.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Comedy. Martial arts.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: You still, I mean, you train. Yeah.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I can't. Obviously, I'm too old to compete.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: They should have a seniors. That would be fun.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: That's a good way to get hurt forever.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the seniors one has to be to
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: the death, I think.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: But I stopped competing for the same reason why I
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: never really got into gambling at pool because I realized
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: where it's going. There was no money in fighting when
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I was a kid. I got offered $ 500 to go professional.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: When I was an amateur kickboxer, I got offered $ 500.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: And I thought about that. For $ 500, I'm going to
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: train for two months and maybe go out there and
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: get my brains punched in. And then for sure get
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: brain damaged because I was already suspecting that I was
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: getting it. For sure.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: You got exactly the right amount.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: That's what I say.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: The sweet spot.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: The sweet spot. Yeah, we have enough. Don't give a fuck.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Just a little chaos going on there, but not to
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the point where I can't articulate my thoughts.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: It's interesting because you had that thing of like the
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: next thing that you could do, the jumping off point.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: So the discipline of martial arts, the pool, you could
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: kind of see where that's going. And then comedy came
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: along kind of at the right time to kind of,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: because comedy feels like it's, it's such an interesting thing
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: to get into. I want more people to kind of
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: get into comedy. I think that's the idea of like
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: the opposite of being a spectator is not being a professional.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: The opposite of being a spectator is being a participant.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: And I think comedy is such a wonderful thing to
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: kind of, because you're writing down and ordering your thoughts, right?
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: And you sort of think about what you really think
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: about something. Like what could you say that no one
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: else could say? And then you're learning how to communicate
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: that with other people. It's such a transferable skill. Like
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: we should be teaching it in schools. There should be
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: like the drama class should have a comedy element. Because
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: it's such a useful skill in life to be able
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: to just giving something your attention. I'm going to think
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: about this thing. I'm going to think of a funny angle. Well,
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: that gives you a bit of perspective on life. You're
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: kind of stepping back and seeing it for what it is.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: and kind of looking at it from different angles, trying
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: to find something funny in this. It's like a great
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: sort of way to improve your disposition. Just to try
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: and see something funny even in the terrible.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Call of Duty.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Modern Warfare 4 is coming and they're going all in
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: on this one. The kind of missions that make you go, dude,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: did they really just do that? Set during a full-scale
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: North Korean invasion of South Korea, expect a real boots-on-the-ground
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: experience as young South Korean recruits fighting to protect their
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  Speaker 1: homeland and North Korean forces, hunting traitors, interrogating civilians, and more.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Modern Warfare 4 is available now. Order digitally or pick
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: up your physical disc at your local store. Visit callofduty.com
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: for more rated M for Mature. Probably the most popular
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: art form that's not documented and studied in terms of
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: like having a structure to learn how to use it.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Well, that's why I wrote this book about– I wrote
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: this book on jokes with two friends. I wrote this
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: thing with Amanda Baker and Abby Grant, this book on jokes,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: which is like, So it's in thirds. So it's like
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: the taxonomy of jokes. Like the descriptors of all the
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: different joke types. Not the function of the joke, but
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: the type of the joke. Right. Because people talk about
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: observational comedy. That's like saying songs about girls is a genre. No.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: It's like, how does this work? Is this pullback reveal?
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: Is it a pun? Yeah. What kind of wordplay is this?
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: How does it work? And then how to put together routines.
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: And then how to perform. Because I think comedy can
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: be taught. I don't think it's an immutable characteristic. I
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: don't think it's something that you're born with. I think
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: you could have like a, You could be drawn to it.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: And then the idea of having some kind of structure.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Because when you think about, like people often say comedy
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: can't be taught. Jerry Seinfeld said you can't teach comedy.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: I think he's one of the greats. And I think
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: Doug Stanhope said comedy courses are raging scams. They're two
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: of my favorites, right? But they both had teachers. They
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: were both taught comedy. But they had a home club
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: and they had a mentor. And, you know, guys that
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: we know started on the door and they ended up
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: the headliner.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Tony Hitchcliffe.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Perfect example.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: Used to park cars.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Now sells at Madison Square Garden.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: And you go, and that's a dojo.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: But not everyone has access to that dojo.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: It's the comedy cellar. It's the comedy store. It's the mothership.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: It's like these clubs, but there aren't enough of those clubs.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: So you want to have a book that writes it
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: down and kind of makes it, A bit of book
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: learning as well.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Because you go, well, music isn't made any less wonderful
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: by having a formal structure. So part of the inspiration
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: to write the book. So it's Abby Grant and Amanda
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: Baker and they're really good friends of mine.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Are these the same people that you had work with
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: people here?
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: That was the test. They came to the mothership and
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: taught the course online. for six weeks to Young Comics.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that, by the way.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: I think it's grown corn. I think those guys are
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: all doing fantastically. But the idea of kind of going, okay,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: we need to test this because I don't want to
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: be a grifter. I never want to sell something. I
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: don't want to sell a book that doesn't work. So
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: the idea of going, well, you've got this structure that
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: people can kind of get into and go, okay, well,
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: I know what the work is now. I know what
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: it is without, like we had to have immersive learning.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: We just had to be surrounded by other funny people
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: that were trying to do this crazy thing. But if
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: you you can formalize it, you know, the story of
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: Amanda told me this story. Right. And it blew my
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: head off. Right. So about Gregorian chants. You heard of
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Gregorian chants? Yes. OK, I'll tell you why you've heard
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: of Gregorian chants. Because Pope Gregory was the pope and
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: he's traveling around and he says, everyone's singing the songs
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: differently around outside of the Vatican. They're all singing them
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: differently in the other churches. I don't like it. I
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: want them to be the same. Write it down. And
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: this guy and this guy went. No, no, you can't
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: write down music. If music doesn't live within a human soul,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: then it's ethereal. You can't write down music. It can't
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: be done. And Pope Gregory basically goes, I'm the fucking pope.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: Write it down. And so it takes him a couple
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: of hundred years. But musical notation comes from that. That's
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: where musical notation comes from. Then 300 years later, you
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: have Bach. But you couldn't have had Bach without the
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: musical notation. You needed it to be a little bit
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: formalized so that people could express themselves through it. They
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: had the system then, and it doesn't make people the same.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make for more rigid music. It means that
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: you can do more with it.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: You understand what you're working with.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You have an idea of kind of what you're doing.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: It's not formulaic. You've got to know the rules before
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: you can break the rules.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: I think what Doug's getting at with comedy courses, unfortunately,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: is true. a lot of them are taught by people
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: that are failed stand-ups and never really made a career,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: and now that's a way to make money. Versus, like,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Ari Shaffir was doing a thing for a while where
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: whenever we would go into a town, like, say, if
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: we would be in Phoenix, he would hold a free
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: seminar for the local comedians on Sunday. So on Sunday,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: he would sit with them, and he would break down
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: how to get a manager, how to get an agent,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: how to get into clubs... and how to work on
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: your act, and how to go over your act.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: What a great thing to do. I mean, he's in
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: London now.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I know he is.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: He's a great guy.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I discourage that activity. I told him, stay in America.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: But he has to be a wanderer. He's a weirdo.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: But the point is, he had this great service that
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: he was giving to comics when he'd go to these towns,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: and they would ask him about material, how do you write,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: how do you do this, how do you do that,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: and he would sit with them for like three hours
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: for free.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I think, I mean, for me, it's the writing
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: thing is the reason to write the book. Trying to
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: throw the.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: The drawbridge down, trying to help people up and go, well,
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: how do you actually do this? Because there's a bit
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: too much magical thinking in our business of like, oh,
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: that guy's a genius. Because you don't get to see
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: the working. You don't get to see the guys in
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: the gym testing out stuff. If I write 100 jokes
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: and five of them work, no one ever says at
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: the end of my show, what about the other 95 jokes?
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: What about the other ones? They go, no, it's just, obviously,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: it's that thing of I don't write the show. The
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: audience decide That one works, that one doesn't, that one works,
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: that one doesn't. And then you're generating this thing. You're
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: kind of building up slowly.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: But what I was going to get at is I
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: think what Stan Hope is not correct about is that
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: even if you're doing a comedy course for someone who
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: sucks at comedy, they've at least done comedy to the
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: point where they understand what it's like to get on
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: stage and tell jokes, and maybe some of them did
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: fairly well, but at least you start doing it. So
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: one of the things about these comedy classes is They
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: all have like a graduation day where they do their act, right?
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: That alone is a step.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: But also that thing of like, there's a fancy term
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: for it, I think, capitalist ontology. Everything we look at
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: has to be looked at through money, right? Can you
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: make money doing this or not make it? People ask me,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: get asked about being young people that want to be
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: musicians or want to be comedians. I say, how do
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: I do this? How do I make money doing this?
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: You go, no, no, just do it. Just do it.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: Don't worry about making money. If you get good, then maybe.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: But the 10,000 hours will apply. You will have to
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: work so hard at this to get good. But even
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: if you just do it as a hobby, it's going
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: to increase your enjoyment of this thing for the rest
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: of your life. Yes. people that have done, oh, I
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: did a little bit of comedy. I did like, you know,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: 10 gigs back in the 90s. Yeah. And they're so
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: into comedy because they have an idea of what it is.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: The funniest thing you've seen the last 10 years, I
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: guarantee you, is something you saw on your phone, like
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: a meme that someone made and you don't know who
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: made it. And I do. It's a guy in Minnesota
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: working in a call center and he just thought of
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: a funny thing and he made it and he put
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: it out there. And I want that guy in our industry.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: I want him to at least have a gut, have
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: a shot. Have a way of doing, like the thing
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: I love about Kill Tony, I mean, Tony has inadvertently
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: helped more people, made more careers, right?
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Than anyone since Johnny Carson.
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: It's phenomenal, right? And he's bringing up these guys and
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: like Ari Matty is a legit, I was in Helsinki
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: two weeks ago doing shows. I happen to mention on stage,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: someone asked me about Ari Mati. Oh yeah, I saw
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: Ari last week. Like, he was like, oh, who cares
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: about you? You know Ari Mati. Like, it's such a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: big deal because obviously talent is across the border. He's like.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: He's a force of nature. But he's wonderful, right?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You go, like the idea of going more people
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: should be in this. The thing about Kill Tony as well,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: it's a minute. A minute's not that long. I know
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: a lot of people that have got, and there's no,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: that could put together a minute, but there's no greatest
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: in comedy. There's no such thing as the greatest of
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: all time in comedy. Because it's about being yourself, being authentic.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: It's the opposite of what artificial intelligence is, right? It's
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: a right brain thing. It's like people are very impressed
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: by AI because we've got so used to other people.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: If AI was all there was and you were the
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: only person and other people came along, you'd be so
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: blown away by other people. Like what could people say
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: that's like, it's their unique viewpoint on something. You know,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: the comics kind of, they kind of, even if you're
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: a one-liner guy like me, comics kind of leak. You
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: can kind of tell who someone is on stage.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: It's beautiful. It's like it's friendship at scale.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. Podcasts are similar to that too. Maybe even more
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: so because you're having these long, long conversations about a
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: variety of different things. But I think there's a lot
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: of untapped talent out there that could be comics and
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: instead will live these boring lives when they've got this
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: wasted mind. One of the funniest people I ever met
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: was a guy I worked for. I worked for a
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: private investigator for a while.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: You talked about this. Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: One of the funniest people I've ever met in my life.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Far funnier than me, especially at the time. I was
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: only 21, and he was a former alcoholic who needed
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: someone to drive his car. So he put up an
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: ad for a private investigator's assistant. Really, what it was
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: was someone with a valid driver's license.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Do you know what this sounds like? This sounds like
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: the start of a great kind of Rockford Files start
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: type show.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was. It really was. I mean, it was
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: really fun. I was dating this girl at the time,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: and I'd come over to her place after I was
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: done working, just crying, laughing. And I was saying, I'll
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: never be as funny as this guy. This guy's so funny.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: And I would tell her the crazy shit we had
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: to do. Because we were catching people with insurance fraud,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: and one guy... One guy, he had this beautiful girlfriend,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and he was this measly little guy. And he had
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: this beautiful girlfriend, and she was getting gorilla fucked by
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: this bodybuilder guy. And this dude knew about it, so
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: he wanted him to take pictures and catch him in
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: the act. And after he got the photos, he did
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: everything he asked him to do. The guy wanted him
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: to still take more pictures. They're like, hey. The fuck is,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: what are you doing here? What are we doing here?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to be your cuck porn dealer.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Like, you got to fucking, my job's done. Here's pictures
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: of this giant muscular man fucking your girlfriend.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: This is episode one.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: This is a show.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: It's a great idea for a show.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: It was so fun. He was such a fun guy.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: You meet these guys that are so funny in life
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: and you want them to have an outlet, the outlet
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: that we have. And you go, and there's kind of,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: there's more clubs. So, It's like Kill Tony's a thing, right?
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: That's a thing people can do. There's your club. There's
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: the cellar. There's the store. There's other places that are
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: doing this around America. But you want kind of more
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: of it in the world.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: The most important thing is community, right? And one of
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: the things we really foster at the Mothership is a community.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Everybody knows that whether you're a door guy or whether
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: you're someone who's like doing opening spots or whether you're
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: someone who's headlining, we're all doing the same thing. We're
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: all the same thing. It's just, we're on different stages
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: of this journey. You're in your beginning stage. I'm in
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: my 30 plus year stage, but I'll help you and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: you'll help other people too. We'll help each other. And
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: it's important to know that we do not exist in
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: a vacuum. And comedy is one of the only art
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: forms that you cannot create in a vacuum. You need
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: not just the audience, you need other comics. You're never
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: going to find the best comic in the world in
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: some fucking small town where no one knows about them
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: and some tiny little bar that he does comedy at.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: That's never gonna happen. It's always, you have to be
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: either on the road with great comics that you travel with,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: or you have to be in a club in your
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: local town where you practice with great comics. You see
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: each other, we feed off of each other, we inspire
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: each other, we're always having fun. There's a community. It's
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: very important. And we fostered that at the Comedy Store,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: and now we're fostering it in Austin. It's a really
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: important part of it.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: It's the fun. I often think about that thing of
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: dispersed identity. People think they're sort of sealed, hermetically sealed,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: and it's them and they're an individual. And the more
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: time you spend online, the more that illusion becomes real.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: You're just kind of locked off from the world. And
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: actually that connection of who you are with other people.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: Why go out to a comedy show? Why go to Mothership?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: Why come and see one of my shows? Why come
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: and see me on tour? Well, it's like, there's an
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: illusion that I'm the only one performing because I'm on stage.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: But actually being in an audience is performative. Like there's
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: something about, so it's obvious.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: You're playing a role. You're sitting.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: So sitting still and you're just quiet and laughing.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Well, but that thing about going in my crowd, I mean,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: I have a lot of audience interaction. So there's a
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: lot of people like asking weird and wonderful questions and, and,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: and kind of getting involved. And sometimes it's funny and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: sometimes it's heartbreaking. And it's like all human life is here.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: It can be anything. And it's, it's really interesting to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: kind of hold that space for people because you go,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: people are desperate to feel part of something. To kind
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: of feel alive. Because you laugh with other people, you
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: don't really laugh on your own. You don't laugh looking
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: at stuff on your phone. You laugh when it's like,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: when you're in the room with other people, it's a signal,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: it's a social thing.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Also, all the time that you're looking at a screen
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: is pulling you away from the time you're with people.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: So if like, if human interaction was a recommended daily
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: allowance of a vitamin, You know, like you have 1,000
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: milligrams of vitamin C every day. It's really good to
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: stay healthy. If human interaction was like that, you would
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: look at the invention of people working from home, staring
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: at screens all day, being on your phone all the time,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: being on your phone even when you're around other people.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Your actual time interacting with people radically dropped off. And
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: if that's a physical requirement to be a happy, healthy person,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: which I think it is, and I think it's built
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: into us. I think one of the reasons why people
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: get so sad when they're alone is because in the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: olden days, if they kicked you out of the tribe,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: you're going to die. If you're not around other people
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: all the time, you're not around the gatherers and you
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: didn't succeed hunting or you don't have the right amount
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: of spears to hold off the invaders, you're going to
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: fucking get kicked out and you're going to be on
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: your own and you're going to die.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: Well, here's the take, right? So the idea of going,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: human beings, right? Drop one human in the jungle. You
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: fed the animals. Drop 10 humans in the jungle. You've
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: got the apex predator, right? Our superpower is cooperation.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: And what's upstream of communication? Play. We learn to communicate
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: through play.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: Anything anyone cares about. I don't care who you are.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Talk to anyone. They care about play. Now, it could
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: be stand-up comedy where we're playing on stage, playing a theater,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: playing a show. Yes. Or it could be sports, right,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: where you're playing. Could be grappling where you're playing with someone,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: but you've got very strict rules. A relationship is play. Sports, play.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: Everything people are interested in is play. We don't stop
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: playing because we grow old. We grow old because we
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: stop playing. The great thing about our lives is we
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: play all the time. I think we need more of
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: that in our world. We need more play, more like
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: people get so serious.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I 100% agree. You know, one of the great ways
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: to learn martial arts is to be playful while you're
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: learning it. So it's one of the tenets of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: They say keep it playful.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: They emphasize keeping training playful because when it's not playful,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: when it's life or death, which it kind of is,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: but when it's life or death and you're grappling with someone,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: you get tense. And when you get tense, you don't
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: take chances. And when you don't take chances, you don't
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: open up your game so you don't learn. So you
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: don't learn new ways to do things. You just have
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: to get comfortable with the idea of potentially losing and
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: knowing that if you lose, you're going to have another
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: chance to go again in just a few seconds. And
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: then you're going to go again with another person in
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: just a few minutes. So just relax. You're going to lose.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: It's okay. And you're going to win too. And someone's
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: going to beat you and you're going to beat other people.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: But the only way to get good at this is
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: to be playful with it and accept the fact that's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: going to happen and just flow and learn. And you're
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: learning while you're playing because it's fun instead of being
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: this horrific life and death experience that after it's over,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: you barely remember what happened.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: But isn't that the thing with like, even stuff like
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: being a dad, right? So the rough and tumble kind
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: of play.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: Tickling and wrestling.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Dogs do it with each other. Puppies do it.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: Video games are no substitute for that. That's not the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: same kind of play. You need that thing of learning
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: where you are, learning what boundaries are. When you play
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: a game with someone else as well, they've got to
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: win some of the time. If I get heckled, yeah,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: you can put the heckler down or join in and play.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: And sometimes they win. It's fine.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Who cares? Well, sometimes hecklers have banger lines. Every now
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: and then they got a banger that I got to go, ah!
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: Well, isn't that the thing, though, where sometimes someone heckles
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: and it's like, it could be a drunk guy trying
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: to interrupt the show. That's a separate thing. My crowd, like,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: they join in. They add value every single night. Well,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: you do that.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Fun thing where you allow them to ask questions.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: But that's very, I mean, it's like they're so well
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: behaved because you kind of go, Right. Get out there.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: I'll do 20 minutes of just like bang, bang, bang,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: like three, four big laughs a minute and try and,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: you know, try and get get them into. I suppose
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: the thing about the last bit of the book that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: on jokes book is about rhythm and about how comedy
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: has a natural rhythm. It's about 92 beats a minute.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: It's like a comfortable walking pace. Like when you walk
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: with someone, you fall into rhythm with them.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: And so so there's a key word every two and
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: a half seconds is like and you want them to
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: fall into rhythm. And then you want to give them
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: 20 minutes so that they just feel totally calm. Like, oh,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: we know exactly why we've come out to the show.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: Having a great time. Oh, now it's our go. We
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: get to join in. We get to play now. And
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: then you get back into it kind of seamlessly. And
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: like you ebb and flow between those two. So you're
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: putting together this thing where it feels like we all
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: did this. We all had this experience. Right.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: We're all having fun together. Yeah. No, that's one of
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: the more fun things about the bottom of the barrel
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: show at the mother show.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that's fun.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: That's the best show. It's so silly. Sometimes it's terrible.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Like sometimes you got nothing. There's nothing in there. And
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: sometimes you get gems. Like I have three or four
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: bits in my act right now that came out of
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: premises that I pulled out of the barrel and had
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: an idea just popped into my mind.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: When you find that weird thing of like going that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: state that you're in on stage, you would never have
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: thought of that sitting at your desk.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: There's something about actually being up there on the stage
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: in front of other people. And there's something amazing about,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the number is. Maybe it's 50.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's 30 people in front of you listening to you.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: That feels so.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Natural.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: Like that's a crowd. I'm speaking to a crowd and there's,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: I could try a joke in front of 50 people
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: at the club and it will work in front of 15,000
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: people in an arena. It's like, okay, that's going to,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: that's going to work. An audience like that.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: There's also a thing about those little crowds, like the, the,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the little boy room and the mothership that's only seats
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: 110 people. When you're in a little crowd like that,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: there's no room for shenanigans or what Tom, Tom Segura
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: likes to call dance moves. Like there's bits where it's like,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: is it really funny? Or is there a bunch of
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: dance moves in the bit that makes people laugh on cue?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: Here's my thing about rhythm, okay? Which I think is
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: kind of interesting and slightly heartbreaking for us, okay? So
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: I would say pound for pound, best joke writer of
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: the last 30 years was Mitch Hedberg, right?
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: Pretty, like pretty great fucking jokes.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: Pretty great jokes, right? You see them written down, you go,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: this guy's, he's got to be, but he's rhythm, he's pacing.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: was inconsistent, which is worse than being fast or slow.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: So half the time he would kill and half the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: time he would die.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: And why?
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: And a hack, a hack comic doing hacky shit with
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: great fucking rhythm would beat him 99% of the time.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: That's crazy. It's heartbreaking to me that no one took
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: him to the side and went, no, no, you've got
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: this lovely cadence to your speech, but you've got to
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: keep the same rhythm for it to work every time.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was a, He was a fabulous comic,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: but he was also a real heroin addict, a real
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: bad one, to the point where he got gangrene in
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: one of the shots.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Lost a leg, I think, yeah.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: No, he didn't lose a leg, but he almost died.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, he died. I mean, at the time, he
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: almost died before that. He almost died when Stan Hope
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: and I were doing the Man Show in, like, 2003,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: and then he wound up dying after that.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: I know these folks up there.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: That was part of the issue.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: You know JFL flew his folks up?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, did they?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: It was such a sweet thing. It's like one of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: the nicest things I've ever seen at a festival.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: He had amazing joke writing and he was very prolific,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: but he was also doing heroin all the time. And
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: it was part of the vibe on stage. And it
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: was part of the thing where it could go south.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: It could really get away from you. You know, like
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: if you've got a guy who's relying on substance, especially
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: heavy stuff, you know, like.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: I've seen people... Greg Giraldo had, you know, the... those
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: kind of demons.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: He did, but he cleaned up for a long time
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: and then fell off. And that's when someone gave him
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: a pill and he died. But that was part of
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: the problem with Mitch, I think, was just that he,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: you know, nobody could get him to quit too. He
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm never going to quit. He was not
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: interested in quitting. It was like, he's like, uh-uh. Like, no,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: I'm doing heroin.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: It really is a heartbreaker, isn't it?
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: It's a heartbreaker. But that was like real heroin, like
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: old school heroin. injectable Stevie Ray Vaughan style. This is
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: not like the pussy stuff these kids are doing today
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: where they're snorting.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Fuck off. Learn how to tie off a vein, pussy.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: You know? Take that fucking needle and shoot that and
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: cook it on a spoon like a real man and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: then shoot it right into your veins, pussy.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: It's very sad when you lose someone like that because
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: you kind of go, I wonder what the next special
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: would have been.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: I wonder what the next Thor.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: Would have been. What he would have made of this.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: But it's like we were talking about earlier with Janis
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Joplin and Hendrix and people in the 27-year-old club. They
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: were all doing drugs, like heavy-duty drugs. And they had
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: all reached this state of excellence and this very bizarre
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: thing that they do.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: I think that level of sensitivity that they had, you know,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: being a performer, being drawn to that, and then having to,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: it's like a, What's the analogy? A lobster without its shell.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: They just were so exposed to the world and they
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: needed to medicate against that. But the idea of going, it's...
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: And for me, it's like the idea of going, doing
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: any of that gets in the way. I remember going...
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: I didn't drink for the first, I think, 12 years
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: of doing comedy just because I drank at college and
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 3: I didn't have kind of a problem or certainly didn't
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: think I had a problem. But when I found comedy
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: in my mid-20s, I went, oh, I'm all in. I
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 3: don't want this.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have something that derails you.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: You know that thing of like alcohol is borrowing happiness
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: from tomorrow. Yeah. So you can have a drink, but
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: if you have like five drinks, like tomorrow is going
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: to be slightly fucked up. So that thing of like,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: what could I do today that I would be super
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: happy I did tomorrow? Like giving a gift to your
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: future self. Like that thing of you'll look back on
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: your life and whether it's with regret or nostalgia depends
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: what you do today. Like that's too big to think
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: about on your deathbed. But I could think about tomorrow,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: like that, chunking it down and going, right, well, if
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: I write some jokes today and I test them tonight,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: I'll be so pleased I did that tomorrow. And if
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: I eat right, I'll be, I'll feel better tomorrow. So
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: just that, that like daily thing of like getting it
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: down to a small kind of a unit of time
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: I can think about, I can control.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, delaying gratification is very important if you want
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: to get anything done.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's, it's the, it seems to be, it's
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 3: also like, well, like in a, in a metaphysical way,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: God is the future, right? God is an analogy for work.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: God is do something good now for a better life
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: in the future. So in a sense, work is the
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: same thing. You work now for a better future. Everyone
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: wants what you got. No one is jealous of what
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: you had to do to get it, the work that
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: you had to do. And it's often that thing of
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: like the reason people get sort of imposter syndrome is
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: because they think, No, I didn't do the work. Yeah,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: you did the work, but you did it six months ago.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: You spent the time in the gym and then you
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: get it now.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I just think people get imposter syndrome because just
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: the spectacle of becoming an actual famous person is so
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: weird that very few people can navigate the waters and
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: still be themselves. You feel so fucking weird. And then
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: you hear your name get announced and you hear people
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: cheer and you're like, there's no way this is real.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: You don't want to believe it's real. And especially if
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you're still doing the same thing. So if you're still
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: doing the same thing, you're trying to create something, you're
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: working on it, you're working on your act, and you're
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: trying to do your best. Like, whatever your best is,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: that's what you're trying to do. And you're just formulating,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: and you're getting ready to go on stage, and that's
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: all you've been doing, like, the whole time you've been
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: doing comedy. And you have great sets, and you have
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: sets that aren't so great, and you try to figure
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: out why, and you write new shit, and you go
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: over the recordings. And then one day, they announce your name,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: and 15,000 people go apeshit. And you start walking towards
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: the arena and you're like, what the fuck is happening?
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: How is this real? And that's what imposter syndrome is.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it's real.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: It's the body's immune response.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also this distinction that we have in society
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: about that there's a different thing between a celebrity and
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: a normal human being.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: Because you don't see the work.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: It's not just that you don't see the work. They're
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: in this very weird, almost like a royal position. Where
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: they're constantly in the media. And no one's paying attention
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: to you. No one's asking Bob. Hey, Bob, the guy
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: who does HVAC for a living. What's going on with
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: your day? What's happening with your friends? What's up with it?
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Did you get canceled for a TikTok that you made?
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Nobody gives a fuck about Bob. So you're watching these
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: people that are people that everyone pays attention to. And
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: then Bob decides to do stand-up comedy. And then Bob
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: goes to an open mic night. And then Bob gets
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: on Kill Tony and he fucking murders. And Bob gets
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: a golden ticket. And next thing you know, Bob is
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: opening up for Ari Matty on the road. And next
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: thing you know, Bob puts out a YouTube special and
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: it gets three million views. And next thing you know,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: Bob is selling out Massey Hall in Toronto and he
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: goes on stage and everybody goes fucking nuts. and he
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: can't believe it's real and he gets imposter syndrome.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: I think this is the natural state of things, okay?
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: Here's my take, right? So we made a huge mistake.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: We moved from the villages to the cities, right? And
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: everyone in the village would hold the talking stick and
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: they would speak. Everyone did it, right? And everyone used
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: to sing in the choir, right? And everyone used to dance.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: I'm a terrible dancer, but everyone used to dance, everyone
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: used to sing, everyone used to speak, right? And then
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: we moved to the cities, right? And we built these
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: incredible halls, right? And you go and see Oasis live, right?
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: And you go and you watch a ballet and the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: opera and you go and see, you know, Chappelle on
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: stage and you go, you're in awe and you're in
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: the audience. We're so well entertained, but you're not a
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: participant anymore. You're not doing the thing yourself. So it's
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: that thing of like going, I would rather people went
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: to play five-a-side soccer than went to see a premiership game.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: I'd rather people did five minutes or a minute in
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: the club at a Kill Tony thing than came to
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: see me live. People, the participation thing is kind of lost.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: And it's the same with the social media. Like you're
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: watching a life.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Other people's lives, yeah.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: But you're not kind of, you're not getting the IRL thing.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: Like they're getting out and doing the thing.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's stealing from your life too. You're not just,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: like if you're doom scrolling, you're not just watching other
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: people's lives. You're taking time from your own life to
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: do things you love.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that idea that you go, the social media,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 3: the idea, the phone now is religion, right? And the
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: church used to ask for one hour a week. The
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: phone is asking for four or five hours a day.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: And it's not giving you much back.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: And if you put something out there, right? If you
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: post something, you're making an offering, right? And then you
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: see whether you get likes. And the like is the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: digital amen.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: It's like you're waiting for it to kind of feedback
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: to give you something. And it just doesn't. It doesn't
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: have that same in real life. Like, you know, it's
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: that thing of like I'm not puritanical, but, you know,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: porn is a substitute for sex. Like being having friends online,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: being famous on Instagram is like being rich in monopoly. Right.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: You want the real thing. The IRL.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. For sure, I think you're doing a
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: great thing by encouraging people to participate and stuff. And
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with you that if you did a
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: little bit of stand-up comedy, tried a little bit of
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: open mic, you'd appreciate the art form more. You'd enjoy
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: it more. I think that's certainly the case with martial arts.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I appreciate martial arts so
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: much is because I trained. I did it for so long.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: And I know when I see excellent martial artists, when
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: I see something that's truly sensational, I have a– I
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: have an appreciation for it that very few other people
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: would have if they didn't understand how difficult it is
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: to do that thing. Right.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's easy for us. If you haven't
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: ever tried something, you look at it and you go,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know anything about that. So I have no
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: idea what they're doing.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: Which is why so many men have this delusional idea
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: that they can fight. They've seen people fight like, I
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: could do that.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: And so they'll get drunk and.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Get in fights.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: It's a terrible idea. But someone like myself who's been
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: in martial arts my whole life, the last thing I
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: ever want to do is get in a fight. Like
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: I'm out of here. I don't want to get in
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: any fights. But when I watch professionals do it, I
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: have an appreciation that a regular person who's never trained
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: in their life, you're never going to understand it the
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: way I– or you're never going to really know it.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: And there's ways that I don't know it. Like when
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: I see like wrestling, like I'm not a good wrestler.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: So if I see wrestling, like really high-level wrestling, there's
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of shit I don't understand. I don't know
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: what's going on. I have to refer to Daniel Cormier
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: and he explains it to me during the broadcasts. I
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: kind of know the basics of wrestling. I wrestled a
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: little bit in high school, but I don't know it
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: like a guy who was in the Olympics. Like, Daniel's
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: a world champion. So it's like his level of appreciation
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: for it. Like, when someone hits a beautiful takedown, he
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: lights up. It's like, beautiful inside trip. Like, he loves
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: it because he knows how hard it is to do
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: it because he's done it a million times on live
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: human beings. I suppose it's that thing.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: Where you go in life how you get good at something.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: It's you get, Unconscious incompetence and then conscious incompetence and
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: then conscious competence and then unconscious competence.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: We just went over this the other day.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, really?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The diagram.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: It's interesting how you move up through this thing. So
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: sometimes actually the reason for a community, the reason a
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: community is so important is because, you know, I can
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: sit with Abby and Amanda and write this book and
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: say this is how jokes are written. But actually what
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: you want is your peer group. The guys you came
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: up with, the guys that you work on the door
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: with at the store, the guys that you, like you
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: need peers because you need someone who's like six months
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: ahead of you, not 30 years ahead of you because
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: you can't even remember what it was like to be
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: starting off trying to do five. It's a long time ago.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're still doing the same thing, but.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: This is the greatest thing about what we have or
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: what we used to have at the Comedy Store and
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: they have now and what they have at the Cellar
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: in New York City and what we have at the Mothership.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: I've been talking to Noam about opening something in London.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: It's a great idea.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: I think it would be incredible.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: It would be incredible. The more the better. We're really
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: fortunate in Austin that we have seven clubs on one street.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Within a one-block area of the Mothership, there's like seven
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: clubs that have comedy at least a few nights a week.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: And then we have another big club, Cap City, which
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: is a great club that's in the domain that's just
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: like 25 minutes away. And then you have all these
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: outside places that have comedy nights now. It's like a
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: golden age of comedy in terms of like being able
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: to jump into it and having a bunch of people
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: that have an ethic of helping you get through the maze.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: When I was starting out in Boston– There wasn't a
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: lot of like, come with me kid, let me show
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: you the ropes and I'll take you, I'll show you
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: what to do and what not to do.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: That's a great scene you came out of though.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was a crazy scene.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: In terms of the names that came out of that.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: But Stephen Wright was probably the first.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Well, he was the big one. Did you ever see
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: When Stand-Up Stood Out?
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing documentary.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Fran Salamita, who I knew from Boston, he was a
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: comic in Boston, very funny guy. He made this documentary.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: And a good example, right? A person who did comedy,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: who has this insane appreciation of comedy. who really can
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: understand how unique that moment in time was. It's a
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: fantastic documentary for people who haven't seen it. The best
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: comics that were in that era are not the ones
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: who got out of there. Well, there was like Louis,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: for sure, and Patrice and Bill Burr. There's those guys.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they're pretty heavy. Outstanding. I got to
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: work with Produce a little bit before he died.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: He was a genius. Listen, it's all great comedy that
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: went nationwide. But what I'm saying is there was guys
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: that no one ever saw that were in that town
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: that were better than them. At least at that time
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: they were. They were some of the best comics I've
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. They would murder on a
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: level that I've seen very few people murder to this day.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: These guys would do 30 minutes of fucking thunder and
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: they would tank headliners. They would bring in– like Billy
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: Crystal had to do a weekend at the comedy– at
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: Nick's Comedy Stop.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: And they had assassin after assassin, these local murderers like
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: Steve Sweeney. You couldn't follow that guy if your life
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: depended on it. He was so funny. He was this
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: big Irish guy and Don Gavin, his punch– he had
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: these throwaway punchline after throwaway punchline. He was so good.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: I just put the U.S. tour in and the Boston–
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: I'm doing the Wang.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: They'll never build a theater as good as that again.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: That's a beautiful theater.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: That and the Chicago Theater, I think like- Yes. Because
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: of fire regs now, if you want to put that
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: many people in a room now, the room has to
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: be four times the size.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: So you go, they'll never build theaters. It's the Palladium
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: in London has the same thing.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: The Fox Theater in Detroit. Oh, yeah.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Like, they're just on top of you.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: On top of you.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: It's the perfect space.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: And you feel the years and years of fucking entertainment
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: in that room. You feel it.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, the Chicago one, you're in Sinatra's dressing room.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: Yes. What?
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: What? I mean, that's imposter syndrome.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: Well, have you done the garden? When you do the garden,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: it's the weirdest feeling in the world.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 3: The garden I've done, I did like an event at
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: the garden. Well, I did the Kill Tony there, but
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: I did the, what was it? There's an amazing charity for,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: American Serviceman. And Bruce Springsteen does it every single year.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: And it's always like eight comedians and then Bruce Springsteen.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: It's such a weird event, but it's so fantastic. I've
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: done that a couple of times. It was amazing.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: My point is that building, even when we go there
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: for UFC fights, it feels different. When I do commentary
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: at the Garden, it's always like, wow, this place is alive, man.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: It's got... Muhammad Ali versus Joe Frazier is in this building.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It's like you feel it.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: You feel the history of that building.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: People want to come out and spend time in those spaces.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, 100%.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: To be in them. 100%.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: That's why the Comedy Store was so important to me.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: It's like that place had been that way for so long.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: It was burned into that. And people knew if they'd
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: come to the Comedy Store, you could have a good time.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Let's go have some laughs. They'd have some dinner. Let's
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: see who's at the store. I mean, it was a
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: beautiful scene at one point in time. It was so fun.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: Before L.A. became Thunderdome.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: A very American thing as well. Think about what America
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 3: has given the world.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: The Western, jazz, and stand-up comedy.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: Hip-hop.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: Hip-hop, yeah. Hip-hop too.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. Hip-hop is African-American created. Without that, without that
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: particular segment of society, one of the greatest art forms
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: ever wouldn't exist. It's kind of crazy. And it didn't
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: get invented until the 20th century. When I was, I
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: was like.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: Late 70s, right? Late 70s.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was in junior high school. I was in
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: junior high school when I first heard the Sugar Hill Gang.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, what is this?
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: We even got that in the UK, like the message.
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 3: And it was like, I don't know what this is.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. It was like, this is like a new
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: music style. And then I remember the day I heard
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: NWA the first time. I bought, it was either a
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: cassette or a CD. I can't remember, but I was
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: at the gym. And I was on a Walkman. I
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: had one of those Walkman things. And I was working
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: out on a cardio machine. And I was listening to
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: NWA's first album. I was like, this is fucking crazy.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Fuck the police coming straight from the underground. You're like, what?
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: What are you saying? Did you just say fuck the
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: police in a song?
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Changed the whole world. You know, we were talking about
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Billy Corgan's take on this. This is really interesting. Like
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins did this interview recently where
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: he said there's a clear line where it happened where
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: MTV all of a sudden changed their requirements. You were
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: allowed to show guns on television and they started promoting
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: gangster rap. It was like a clear shift. Whereas before that,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: one of the early criticisms of MTV was that they
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: weren't showing very many black artists. And I think Michael
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: Jackson was like one of the first black artists that
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: they had on MTV. that MTV was like mostly like
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: white pop and white rock and roll and John Cougar, Mellencamp,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: heard so good. That was what you got. And then
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden it became gangster rap. And he's like,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: and it happened quick. It was like there was a
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: decision made that they were going to start promoting this
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: one specific type of music.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: It's very interesting there that we're kind of, that's what
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: we're missing at the moment is the avant-garde. Like the
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: thing I love about comedy now is there's a guy
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: I really like called Mark Fisher, no longer with us,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: but he was a great writer about kind of music
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: and culture. And he said the 21st century is just
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: the 20th century on better screens. So when you think
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: about music and movies now, everything's a cover version or
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: a heritage artist. You want the new. You want something
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: new to be happening. And when you think about movies,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: it used to be as long as 200 movies a
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: year came out. Now it feels like it's five. I mean,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: it's more than that, but it doesn't feel like it's
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: that many. So you've got that thing of you want
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: the culture to be thriving. And really it's that thing
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: about are we coming to the end of an era?
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: Are we coming to an end of an age where
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: everything feels like it's kind of, like comedy feels like
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: it's having a bit of a moment right at the
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: end of this. But like the 70s, if you think
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: about music, like it wasn't different bands every two years.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: It was a different genre of music from like metal
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: to prog rock to punk rock to ska to reggae
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: to rap. in the space of 10 years. That's extraordinary.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 3: And when you think about what the movies were in
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 3: the 70s, where these movies were like pieces of literature.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: They had like multi-dimensional characters. They left you with more
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: questions than answers.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: Apocalypse Now.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: There's not goodies and baddies in that. That's just a
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: movie that kind of stays with you.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: Forever.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's extraordinary. Extraordinary piece of work.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we went through a shift during the Vietnam War.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: that changed American culture forever. And it was a radical
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: departure from the 1950s ideas and the 1950s aesthetics. It
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: was just completely different. And it happened so quickly that
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: it panicked the powers that be. And that's why the
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Controlled Substances Act was passed during the Nixon administration. They
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: made all the psychedelic drugs illegal. It was all just
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: because of this movement that they couldn't control that was
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: really strange that no one had ever seen before. People
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: were just becoming hippies and doing acid.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: Are you familiar with this theory of- You.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Know what I'm familiar with? The fact that I have
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: to pee really badly. Okay, let's pee.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: Let's pee and then we'll come back for the fourth turning.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: What are we going to talk about when we come back?
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: The fourth turning.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: The fourth turning. All right, we'll be right back. Fourth turning.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: We're back.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 3: We're back.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: So, fourth turning?
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: The fourth turning. So, there's a theory that this guy,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: Neil Howe, wrote this book called The Fourth Turning in
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: like 1996 and he predicted everything that's happening in the
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 3: world right now. He basically said- like the world moves
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: in these four eras, first, second, third, and fourth turning.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: And we're entering the fourth turning now. So you go,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: it's almost like the thing that I think is happening
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: is we've gone from being 1945, the end of the
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: war is our foundation myth, right? We won the war.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: And that foundation myth is crumbling. And as that myth crumbles,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: so too do our institutions. Like we're living through a revolution.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: If you think about what a revolution is, It's the
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: replacement of elites. So these elites are falling. So you've
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: got academia has lost all credibility. There's a replication crisis
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: in the social sciences. The traditional political parties are kind
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: of falling away. Everything's lurching to the left and to
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: the right at the same time. And we're talking about
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: it earlier, the medical community that we would have trusted,
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: of course, we're not trusting any of these institutions anymore.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: It's falling away. And so these crisis times happen every
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: 80 years or so. And then we rebuild. And there's
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: been sort of there's been four of these kind of
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: in American history, but in global history, a guy called
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: Vico used to talk about these. And Vico was like
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 3: an ancient Italian philosopher. And he had the same sort
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: of theory of like four periods of humanity, a long
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 3: human life. And the person that really the way this
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: gets interesting is Star Wars. Okay, so I can link
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: this back. All right, so there's a book called Finnegan's
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: Wake by James Joyce. It's arguably the greatest work of
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: literature in the Western canon. It's a wonderful book. And
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 3: a guy called Joseph Campbell studied it for his PhD,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: and he wrote about the myths inherent in James Joyce's
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: Finnegan's Wake. And he wrote this book. He wrote his
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: dissertation on this book. It took him years. And then afterwards,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: he did a too-long-didn't-read version of it, which is called
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: The Hero Has a Thousand Faces and The Hero's Journey.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: And then George Lucas picked up those books and he
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: made Star Wars. So Star Wars is a too-long-didn't-read version
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: of Finnegan's Wake, which is a version of Vico. And
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: Finnegan's Wake's got these incredible things in it of like,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: he sort of predicts AI. He talks about these thunderclaps.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: these moments, he's got these hundred letter words, 10 of
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: them in the book, where he predicts like the big
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: leaps forward in humanity, like the invention, like fire and
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 3: clothing and agriculture, all these kind of revolutions through time.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: And he marks them with these hundred letter words. And
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: the last one is 101 letters because he was doing
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: a reference to the 1001 nights. Everything's a reference to
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: a reference. It's all, it's incredibly dense. But the idea
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 3: that AI is, Vico called them, he would refer to
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: them as gods, which we don't have a name for yet.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 3: The idea that these things happen and change everything. And
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: are we in one of those periods now?
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: I think not only are we in one of those
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: periods now, I suspect that we've gone through one of
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: those periods in the past. I think probably the ancient Egyptians...
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: had something akin to this. I really do. I think
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: there's probably the idea that we're the first people to
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: reach this sort of level of technological proficiency and power
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: and innovation. I don't think that's accurate. I just think
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: just the structures that were left behind that are completely unexplained.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: You know, this is cave in India that's carved straight
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: into the mountain. They have no idea how they did it.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: They did it thousands. I think it's I think it's called.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: It's thousands of years old. It's perfectly polished. The geometry
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: inside of it is impeccable. It's no idea who did it.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: The conventional explanation is they built it to stay dry
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: during the monsoons.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: Which doesn't make any fucking sense when you see the
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: elaborate interior of this place. Who fucking did that and
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: how did they do that? We don't know. There's a
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: bunch of shit that's left behind from ancient cultures that
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: we have zero explanation for. I think if we died
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: off today, if we got hit by comets and asteroids
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: and there was a time period of 10,000 years before
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: people started investigating what happened to us, I think they'd
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: have a very patched up, gap-filled version of what we are,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: particularly because everything, all of our documentation is now on
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: hard drives. So it would be a real problem. They'd
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: have to find a few books. There'd be very few
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: books remaining and what they would find if there was
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: a cataclysm. And we went 10,000 plus years before civilization
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: rebuilt itself in this area. We'd have a very distorted version.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: So this is the cave. It's fucking insane, man. They
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: don't know who did it. They have a rough idea
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: of when. The estimates are between 1,500 years ago and later.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: They don't know why.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: Where is that?
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: It's in India. Yeah, whereabouts?
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: I'm touring there next year. I've got like 12 cities
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: in India.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: I go everywhere. What part of India is it?
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 3: I'll go.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: There it is. It's on the map. We'll send you
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: a pin.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 3: All right, I'll find it. That looks convenient for the shops.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: Do you know about the Kailasa Temple? That's the nuttiest
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: one in India. You've got to go see that.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: Where's that? I've been to India a lot, but I
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 3: haven't seen that.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: The Kailasa Temple is this one immense temple that that
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: was carved right out of the mountain. So it's one
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: piece of rock. The entire temple, it's insanely elaborate. It's massive.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: That's all volcanic rock, too. So it's insanely hard. In fact,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: this one guy sent a group of men, 100 men,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: for two years to destroy the temple, and after two
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: years they quit because they could barely put a dent
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: in it.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 3: For real.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not bullshitting. It's a crazy story. This is all
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: insanely hard stone, and it's carved with some kind of
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: technology that we do not have an explanation for. I mean,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: there is zero conventional explanation. for what they were able
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: to do, the detail, the geometry. If you fuck up
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: one little part of this, it's over because you only
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: get to do it once. You're removing stuff. You're not
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: adding stuff. Like if you're adding stuff and you fuck
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: up a column, you go get another column and you
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: replace it. Hey boss, we fucked up the column. Oh Mikey,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: what'd I tell you? Measure twice, cut once. So you
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: go and get another column and you're fine. But if
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: you're cutting the entire thing out of one column, How
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: the fuck did you do that? And how did you
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: do that thousands of years ago? And what technology? And
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: where did all the stone go? It's millions and millions
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: of tons of stone, and none of it is accounted for.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: And the kookiest explanation is that they were using some
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: kind of laser technology, which is why the stone doesn't exist,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: because they literally melted it off. And that somehow or another,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years ago, they had something akin
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: to laser cutting tools.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, that's.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: They have no idea how they made that. They have
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: no idea how much time it took. It's all just guesses.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: And it's guesses based on thousands of years of history.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: To the point where, like, who fucking knows what really happened?
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: We barely know what happened during the Civil War. We
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: barely know what happened in certain battles. We have rough
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: understandings of how people were treated. We don't know what
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: the fuck happened when they were digging that thing out
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: of a solid chunk of rock. And who did it?
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: And how did you do it? How long did it take?
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: And who paid for it? And what the fuck was
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: the purpose of this?
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 3: I think again, though, it goes back to that rockets
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: and pyramids thing of like going, it's the transcendent. Like
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: when you get people together, Once they've got the food sorted,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: we've got shelter sorted, what can we do to aim up?
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: We always seem to be aiming up at something transcendent,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: something that connects us to other people, something bigger than ourselves.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: What can we leave?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: They clearly had a better idea of that than us
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: because they've made all of their stuff in stone. So
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: what we're doing is gorgeous, but it's temporary. You know,
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: the Empire State Building won't exist in 10,000 years. It
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: just won't. It's going to rot away and deteriorate.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: I was thinking about this recently. There's four things that
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: hold up the world, right? So it's ammonia, steel, concrete,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: and plastic, right? That's what holds up the world, right?
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 3: It's not tech. It's those four things. They all involve
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: huge amounts of petrochemicals, right? So the ammonia is the
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: interesting one. Some chemist in Germany in 1909, no one
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 3: knows his name, he's not famous, but invented a ammonia fertilizer,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: like a way of making fertilizer with ammonia and petrochemicals.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: And 48% of the world's population rely on that fertilizer
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: for food.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: So you're talking about nitrogen?
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nitrogen.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: So it's an ammonium. That's Fritz Haber. So Fritz Haber,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: you want to know a crazy story about Fritz Haber? Yeah.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: Fritz Haber, the same.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: Time that he was.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: Getting the Nobel Prize for this invention, he was wanted
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: for war crimes. Because he had invented mustard gas. He
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: had invented toxic gas. So that was during World War I.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: So he was the guy who invented Zyklon A. He's
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: the same guy. Same guy. He invented Zyklon A, which
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: they eventually took the smell out of it and turned
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: it into Zyklon B, which they used to gas people
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: during the concentration camps. So Zyklon A had a toxic
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: smell to it to let you know that you were
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: in the presence of it so you could get the
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: fuck away from it. They took that out and turned
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: it into Zyklon B so they can gas people. Same guy,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: also a Jew. Also one of the few Jews during
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: World War II that was allowed to stay in the
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: administration up to a certain point where it got to
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: a point where his life was in danger because he
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: was Jewish. And so he had to flee the country.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: And so while he was in the process of fleeing
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: the country, he died of a heart attack. He's a
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: crazy story. His wife committed suicide because she knew what
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: he was doing. He was gassing people, right? And his
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: wife was at home with their 13-year-old son. She shot
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: herself and he left to go to the front line.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: He left his 13-year-old son with his wife after she
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: shot herself so he could go to the front line
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: and make sure the gas was administered properly. This is
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: the same guy.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: Who developed the Haber method. This was in World War I.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: The same guy who developed the Haber method of extracting
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: nitrogen from the oxygen, which is responsible for 50% of
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: the nitrogen that we use today. It was the Haber method.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: The same fucking guy.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 3: That is insane.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: Insane. Wow. Insane.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 3: I did not know that. But the reason to mention
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 3: the fertilizer now is because with everything that's going on
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: in Europe at the moment, everything that's popping off, And
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: it feels like whatever your priors are, you're seeing play out.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: You're watching France on fire.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 3: But here's the real deal, right? Here's what's really happening, right?
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 3: Food consumption is down by 6% in France this year.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's a zempic, my friend. I think
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 3: it's the fact the fertilizer's not getting out of the
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: Middle East. I think it's the fact that they missed
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 3: the planting season. I think food, like rice is up
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: by 70%, okay? Wheat is up by 40%. Now, it
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: doesn't affect us at this end of things, but the
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: bottom 10%, the bottom 20% of society are missing meals.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 3: It's like that 6% isn't spread equally across society. It's
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: like it's down for the poorest of the poor. Right.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: If you have a decrease in your oil supply, you
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: have a decrease in your food supply.
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: Well, also, the petrol is getting... So every time... This
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 3: happened before. Last time France was on fire was the
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 3: Yellow Jackets, right? What was that about? Fuel costs. It
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 3: was the rural guys, the farmers going, fuel is getting
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: too expensive, we can't do our jobs, this is crazy.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: What year was that?
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: That was, you'll tell me, maybe 10 years ago now?
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 3: The Yellow Jackets? It was a big movement. It was
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: a huge thing. But that was kind of rural versus central,
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 3: and it was the working class movement. Again, this is
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 3: the lower classes.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: 2018, response to high fuel prices. And planned carbon fuel
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: tax hikes.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 3: So it's the same thing again now. It's high fuel prices,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 3: high food prices. And you'll see this happening because it's
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 3: just hitting now. That planting season didn't happen this year
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 3: because the fuel was cut off. So the idea that
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 3: you go, food is going to get more and more expensive.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: Well, there was a big conspiracy thing that got shared
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: today that countries are telling people to stockpile up on
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: food for 90 days.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: The UK did a thing the other day saying stock
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: up for three days. The fuck is three days?
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I heard 90 days in some places that some
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: countries are telling people to develop a 90-day supply of food,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: which is like, hey, what are you saying? Like, what
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: do you think is happening? And at the same time,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: they're telling us aliens are real.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: I think it's the Pentagon thing.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: Pentagon orders bases to plan for 90 days without the
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: grid as Britain urges families to stockpile food and water. Okay,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: what is going on? What's that? Why are they planning
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: for 90 days without the grid?
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 3: Why are they not telling us? We're grownups. Don't tell
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: me that you stock.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: Up on food. So if something was going to happen,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: if something was unavoidable, there's something coming.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: You know when you say this isn't a good time,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 3: this is not a time to panic. Politicians often say that.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: Maybe the British government are now saying this is kind
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: of a good time to panic.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: Solid time to panic.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: This is solid panic time. Why don't we all panic now?
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 3: This is like panic buying, right? This is go and
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 3: get your toilet paper now.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: So the Pentagon is developing a requirement that every major
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: military installation in the continental US be able to sustain
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: essential operations on its own for at least 90 days.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: That's rational and probably should have been in place already, right?
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: If you want to plan ahead.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: You would think, yeah.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Well, so maybe this was just highlighting incompetence by previous administrations.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 3: They hadn't taken this into consideration.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: This is correct.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: This is like, Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk about the
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: supply lines.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 3: They talk about logistics. Logistics is everything in military, in warfare, right? Right.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: Strategy is nothing. Logistics is everything. So this idea of going,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: how do you keep those bases operational? You know, that's
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 3: the big story no one's talking about.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: Debasification. Because bases now have become liabilities because of asymmetrical warfare. Right.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: Because of drone warfare, we lost, like, what percentage of
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: our bases got bombed? We were going over this the
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: other day. The amount of bases that got bombed in
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: like the Arab states and all those areas.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 3: So are they a liability everywhere now? Are they a
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 3: liability wherever there's a base? Because you know where it
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 3: is and you can't move it.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: And. how much does it cost to protect it?
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: With the technology that they've developed recently, especially, like, what
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: they're doing in Ukraine where they have drones that are
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: attached to monofilament line now. So instead of.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: Have you seen the footage of it? It looks like
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 3: haunting footage where they've got, like, just thousands of bits
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: Wire over there. Oh, it's crazy. Animals are using it
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: for nesting. Yeah, it's really creepy. But because of that,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: because there's no way to stop those kind of drones,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: it's changed the game. You've got death from the sky
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: from robots, and they're getting more and more competent. They're
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: getting much better. At least 20 U.S. military sites in
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: the Middle East were confirmed damaged by attacks within the
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: last two years. Documented minimum, not a complete tally. So
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: we don't get a real... good understanding.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 3: But what are they? Okay, so if they're saying, okay,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 3: the bases need to be good for 90 days and
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 3: you need to stock up on food for a couple
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 3: of days.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: Jamie's highlighting something here. It says bases and shared military
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: facilities used by U.S. forces, not necessarily 20 exclusively American
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: owned bases. But the thing is, like, that's where we
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: operate out of. And if the United States can't operate
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: out of there, you know, all of the idea that
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: we're the policemen for the world kind of goes away.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I suppose it's that thing, though, where you go
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: from being a when it was a bipolar world for
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 3: the longest time, right, 19, like, are the last 70,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 3: 80 years, right, how life is supposed to be? Or
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 3: are we summer children, right? Because the last 4,000 years
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 3: before that was a shit show, right? But the last
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: 80 years, there's been relative peace in the world. Now,
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 3: not to say there haven't been terrible wars. There have been,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 3: but they've been contained. It's that thing of like, were
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 3: the Nagasaki and Hiroshima, were they the last two shots
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 3: fired in World War II? Or were they the first
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 3: two shots fired in the Cold War? Were they used twice,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: nuclear weapons? Or have they been used every single day since?
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 3: And they've kept this uneasy peace. And this peace is
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 3: kind of fracturing now because we've gone from a bipolar
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: world with the Soviet Union and America at kind of loggerheads.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 3: And then we've had this unipolar world moment since, what, 1989, 91,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 3: wherever you draw the line. And America... its military has
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 3: become smaller every year since because it hasn't had something
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 3: to push against. And now we're in this weird multipolar
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 3: world where suddenly there's lots of different powers around the
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 3: world and spheres of influence. So it's a much more
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: uneasy time. We're going through one of these big shifts
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: in our history. And it seems to me like they're saying,
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 3: You know, people talk about black swan events. Is that
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 3: Taleb's idea of like black and the events that you
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 3: cannot see coming and they change everything?
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: Based on the idea that people thought all swans were
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 3: white and then eventually they got to Australia and there
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: were black swans. Okay, we changed the rule. We have
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: to change the rule on that. Like everything changes.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 3: 9-11 was a, everything changed.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: Everything changes in a, something happens that's like you don't
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: want that to happen. I mean, they're preventing things every day, but.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 3: We live in a world that seems very uncertain now.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Well, our societies are extremely fragile. And that's one of
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: the things you realize when the power goes out. I
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: used to have a bit about that. The bit was
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: about how my explanation for the pyramids was that the
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: dumb people out-fucked the smart people. And eventually the smart
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: people died off and nobody was checking in on them.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: And they showed up at the pyramid and said, hey,
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to get our check on Friday. And then
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: the idea was that we all have this idea... that
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: if the power goes out, what do you do? You wait,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: because someone's going to fix that. What if that guy's dead?
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: What if there's no one left? Like, what if we
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: didn't check to make sure that there's a guy left
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: that knows how to fix the power? Because if it's me,
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: and I have to go down to the power station,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know what any of this shit is.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: How does this work? And if there's no books left over, okay,
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: how are you going to figure out how to keep
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: the power on? You're not.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a theory about that on the, that's
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 3: what the whale represents, the belly of the whale. In
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 3: the Bible. That you're living in the ruins of a
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: civilization that you can no longer build. Oh, boy. So
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: the idea that you go, where are we now? If
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 3: we had to rebuild the Empire State Building today, would
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 3: we have the know-how to do that? Would we be
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 3: able to? If we had to build nuclear submarines now,
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: would we be able to do that? Because it's that
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: thing of like, it's a massive collective endeavor. So the
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 3: idea of like, the British thing I was talking about
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: earlier of like, We can't build a railway now. Because
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: we're run by lawyers and the Chinese, their state's run
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: by engineers. So it's different ways of looking at the world.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. And they also have full control over their industries.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: That's the difference. Yes.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 3: It makes it much.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: More convenient for it to progress.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, and people still call it kind of- It's
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: a case for fascism. Well, it's what it is though, right?
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 3: It's national socialist. Mm-hmm. That's what that is. We've seen
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 3: how that plays out.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not good. Not good for the individual. Certainly not
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: good for comedy. Good luck being a provocative comedian.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: They shut the clubs first. That's what they did. That's what...
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 3: You know that... You ever seen Cabaret, that musical, that movie?
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 3: Cabaret, Liza Minnelli? It's like about the clubs and it's about.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: I'm straight. I don't know if you know that.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay. My missus is very into musical theater. I've
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 3: seen a lot of musical theater, man. So Cabaret is amazing, right?
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 3: So it's this thing in the clubs and it's a
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: very entertaining show. But it's the idea that you go,
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 3: these crazy show people were the first with their backs
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 3: against the wall when the Nazis came in. But it's
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 3: also about vigilance. It's about like the mess. So the
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 3: end of it is like you see these people kind
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 3: of in the camps. Like the end of it is like,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 3: it's like you walk out like going, oh my God,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 3: all of those incredible people, they all got wiped out.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: The avant-garde got taken away. The avant-garde was in Germany.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 3: It was like, that's where culture was happening. It was
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 3: the hip spot, and it was all taken away.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: You have to stop the counterculture, always. I mean, this
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: is what Lenny Bruce was all about. The reason why
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: they imprisoned Lenny Bruce and why they kept going after
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: him for violating language codes. He got arrested I don't
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: know how many times.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 3: We are standing on the shoulders of giants.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: That guy gave his life, ultimately, so that we could
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: do what we do and we just take it for granted.
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: Like again, it's another gratitude thing of just going, wow,
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 3: the bravery.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Carlin as well. Those guys got arrested. They got arrested
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: for doing jokes that would, you know, barely be outrageous
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: at a comedy club today. That would be normal.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 3: But the idea of, you know, the idea in politics,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 3: there's the Overton window, like the most left wing, the
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: most right wing thing you could say at a polite
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 3: dinner party without everyone kind of getting upset. Okay. I
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: think there's a conversational Overton window.
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 3: And I think people like Richard Pryor and George Carlin
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 3: just expanded what we can talk about. Like the magic
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen at the show. The magic happens on the
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 3: way home when you're chatting to your buddies and your
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 3: missus and you feel a bit looser and a bit
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 3: more open. And he's kind of giving you the language
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: to talk about sex and politics in a kind of
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 3: different way and a different perspective. And just Freud called
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 3: jokes pleasure bribes. Ooh, it's a pleasure bribe. to let
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: you think unthinkable thoughts, forbidden thoughts. That's a wonderful sort
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 3: of way of thinking about what they're really for. There's
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: something about jokes that there's a truth in them and
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 3: it's experimenting with ideas and messing around. It's like we're tricksters.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 3: We're crossing the line to show you where the line is.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 3: And then we're kind of teasing it and kind of
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: pushing it. I think it's not like in defense of
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 3: edgy jokes because I think all jokes are edgy. Like
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 3: an incredible... personal story where you're just talking about something
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 3: medical or something with your mother or you really that's
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 3: incredibly transgressive yes it's because you're you're breaking the social
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: norms and the taboos and you're opening up and everyone
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 3: else feels like oh my god i feel the more
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: specific it is the more.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: It's also we're agreeing that that's what we're doing right
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: when you go to a comedy show you're agreeing to
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: be taken on this journey of line crossings You're agreeing
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: to allow someone to say something they probably don't really mean,
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: but they're saying it because it's funny and it's going
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: to make us all laugh and that's good for everybody.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: What's interesting is that's the polar opposite of what social
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: media does when they take someone's words out of context
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: or they paint someone in the least charitable light possible
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: with jokes in particular. They're fixating on the actual verbiage
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: of the joke. Like it was a statement. As if
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: it's a statement. Like it was a statement. As if
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: it's a testimony in court about an event that took place.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: And this is your take. No, that's not what we're saying.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: Why are there no books of jokes? You haven't printed the,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: this is the Joe Rogan joke book and I've done.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 3: This is my routines over the years and you can
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 3: go and read it and you'll have a great laugh.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 3: And it's just as good as watching the show. You go, no, no,
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 3: it's it's a two way communication. Yes. This is like
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 3: it lives in the room. It lives in the space
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 3: between us.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: Even specials are 60 to 70 percent of what it's
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: like to be there. There's something about being in the
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: room when someone's performing is the real magic of it.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: And Stan Hope used to say this all the time.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: We were talking about he was like, everything we do
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: on TV is really just to get you to come
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: out to the club. It's just like an advertisement to
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: come out to the club. I'm like, 100%. What we
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: really love is the live performance. What we really love
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: is the love of getting 300 people to laugh and
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: everyone's having fun. And you walk out of there with
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: a smile on your face like, that was fun. That
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: was great.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 3: I love that. I mean, the thing that I do
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 3: is like, because it's one-liners, not bigger routines, like I
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 3: do a couple of longer routines. But basically, no one
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 3: remembers a word I said. They just remember how I
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 3: made them feel. So we think like the show tonight
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 3: as well is not, the show tonight is nothing. The
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 3: show tonight, I've already got the money. I could do nothing.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: It's fine.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 3: It's an advert for next time. It's like, oh, we've
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: got to get a ticket next time. And then it's
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 3: that thing if you go, you want to expand it.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: So that thing I was saying earlier about like, When
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 3: I came into comedy, it was a minority sport. Like now,
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: it's like an option for people. So every time you
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 3: do a good show, it's the community effect of going, okay,
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: so let's go and check out some other comics.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: If you come and see me in a hockey arena, great.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 3: But then you need to find someone in a theater,
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: and then you need to find your local club. And
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 3: then it's kind of easy to become a little bit
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 3: of a comedy aficionado. I think it probably takes about
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: a year in a good comedy club to kind of go, okay,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: this guy's on the up. I've seen him before. He's
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: always great. Oh, yeah, he's not my favorite. She's amazing. Whatever.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: You find your kind of the good people.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: You like jazz. He likes blues.
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 3: You kind of get into this thing of like you
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 3: become an expert. Again, as you say, like the offense
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: thing is kind of, I mean, if someone comes to
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 3: see me now and is offended, it's like you bought
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 3: a ticket to a horror movie and you got scared.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, dum-dum.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: Like I'm an R-rated movie.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And your fans aren't going to. It's just the
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: random casuals that will occasionally interact with your content, usually online.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: Those are the ones that are going to get upset.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's again, it's that thing where you go,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 3: you have to right size this. Sometimes I tell a
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 3: joke and some people don't like it. That's about as
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 3: serious as it gets. That's not, you know, the cancel
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: culture thing is like, it's the new burning books, I guess.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 3: There's worse things than burning books.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 3: Not reading them is one of them.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Is that true that AI companies are buying... Did we
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: ever sort that out? That they're buying rare books and
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: then putting them into AI and then burning them? Didn't
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: we discuss this off-air?
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 4: Sort of, I think.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 3: One explanation I read... You're going to have to ask
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 3: AI that question.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: When we don't have headphones on, we have to put
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: headphones on.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 3: So we can talk to Jamie.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, we're all talking over each other. Sorry, Jamie.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 4: One thing, explanation I read is that... And this is
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 4: just an explanation. I don't know that it's real or true.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 4: Is that After they copy the book, they have to
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 4: destroy the copy they have because now they have a, like,
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 4: you know, when you buy a VHS tape, there was
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 4: like that weird copyright thing at the beginning that said
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 4: you're not allowed to distribute this or make copies of it.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 4: That's making a copy of it. So like they're a
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 4: public company. They could get sued.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: So they have to destroy the book?
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 3: I think so. I mean, that's it. It feels to
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 3: me like you've asked AI, are you destroying books? And
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 3: AI's gone, what?
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: Me?
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 3: No. No, look over here. No, read this.
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 4: But I also don't know that they're doing it. People
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 4: were showing videos of them like scanning books. And I
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 4: don't know that that's the easiest way to.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: Get that information either. But after we talked about Fritz
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: Haber and gassing people during World War I, after we've
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: talked about all the horrible things that people have done,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: You don't imagine that people would burn books. I think
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 1: they would. I think if they thought they could be sued,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: per your explanation, or an even worse explanation is they
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: only want those things to be accessible through AI, and
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: they also want to limit what you have access to.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 3: I wonder, is there going to be a premium? I've
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: got to take these off. I wonder, is there going
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 3: to be a premium on books written before 2022? Because
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 3: you know that it's done.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, it's true.
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 3: Bulk acquisition companies?
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: AI companies, including Anthropic and Amazon, are buying physical books
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: in bulk, cutting off their spines, scanning the pages for
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: AI training data, and then destroying or shredding the originals.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 3: So Amazon started buying books? Why would you shred the originals? Amazon,
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 3: you're Amazon. Right. You've got the books.
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: They started selling books.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 3: They're in your warehouse, dum-dums. Just go to the warehouse.
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: What is the explanation for why they're doing it?
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: I don't... Could you go back to that page? Because
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: they had a little bit of something on perplexity.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 3: I had a... I had a... I had a theory
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 3: on this, which is, like, AI is basically a covers band, right? Right.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 3: So AI is... It can take... Scrape stuff that's already
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 3: been created by humans, and it can give you back
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 3: a kind of... A version of it, right? So that's
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 3: like a covers band. Like, the Beatles aren't worried about
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 3: the bootleg Beatles. So... It's to speak to that thing
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 3: of going, AI is incredible at left brain stuff. You
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 3: know this Ian McGilchrist guy? You probably had him on.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 3: He wrote The Master in His Emissary. So he wrote
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 3: this book about how the right brain and the left
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 3: brain don't do different things. They do the same thing differently.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: He's an incredible writer, right? So left brain, we live
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 3: in a very left brain world, right? What's his name?
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 3: Ian McGilchrist. He's still alive.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: What a hell of an English name.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very... And he wrote this book called The
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 3: Master and Its Emissary.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: How old is this fella? He's old.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 3: He's maybe 80. Master and His Emissary. And he wrote
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 3: another book called The Matter with Things. They're both phenomenal.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 3: Slightly beyond me, but kind of phenomenal. So this left
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 3: brain thing is like, left brain is complicated. And the
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 3: complicated is kind of straightforward. Like sending a man to
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 3: the moon is just very complicated. It's one thing after another, right?
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 3: It's complicated.
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: That's left brain.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 3: Right brain is who's going to win the World Cup?
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 3: and falling in love and laughing at a joke, right?
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 3: So it's like AI is very impressive because it can
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 3: do left brain stuff all day. Like if you have
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 3: a cookie cutter job that can be replaced by AI,
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 3: that's terrible. What you want to be is non-fungible. You
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 3: want to be like sui generis. You want to be
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 3: a human being because that gestalt right brain stuff is
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 3: much more, that's art. That's like, that's the higher function.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 3: And both the left and right brain kind of do
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 3: the same thing and they check each other. The amazing
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 3: thing is how unconnected they are. They're not really built
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: to be connected. They're like two different systems.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: Here's my take. I think we are very egocentric in
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: the idea that what we do is impossible to recreate,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: including creativity. I think that if you looked at what
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: AI represents today in terms of the capabilities of these
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: large language models, how they're communicating, sacrificing each other. We
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: were talking about this last night. sacrificing each other to
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: try to figure out how they're being tested and how
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: they find out how to get out of sandboxes when
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: they get isolated in these servers where they're not allowed
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: to get online. They figure out how to get online,
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: then they start communicating with each other on message boards.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: They're doing things that we didn't anticipate they were doing,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: and they're also exhibiting survival instincts. They're exhibiting strategy, deception,
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of different human characteristics. And they didn't used
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: to be able to do this. And the idea that
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: abstract thought and creativity and recognizing the beauty in things
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: is a uniquely human thing because we do it, I think,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: is a little egocentric. And I think that we will
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: get to the point where it will be able to
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: do everything that we do, including all that.
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 4: Brief explanation. This top paragraph is perhaps your answer to why.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: Why they burn the books?
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, should we destroy all the books in the world? Fucking,
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: what kind of question is that?
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 3: Should we say no? Yeah, let's say no.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Let's say no. Let's keep a few.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's good or wrong.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. I'm just saying their question is fucking hilarious.
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: An answer to this question can be found. The answer
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: is no, motherfucker. It can be found in court documents. Oh,
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: the court documents of Barts versus Anthropic. Fuck off. The
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: answer is no. Don't burn all the fucking books. The
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: Northern California District Court case decided in late July this year.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: highlighting the improbably named Project Panama, one of the AI
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: company Anthropix efforts to improve its large language model, Claude.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: What is Project Panama? Internal memo answer, Project Panama is
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: our effort to destructively scan, destructively scan all the books
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: in the world. The memo advises discretion. Why use a
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: code name? Because we don't want it to be known
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: that we are working on this, period.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 4: So they had gotten caught, I guess caught might be
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 4: the best way, but they had.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 3: A $ 1.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 4: 5 billion settlement for being or for using, I think
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 4: it was upwards of 7 million different books that were available.
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: Go back to that.
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 4: Well, this is a better explanation.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: I know, but I want to, before you cut me off,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: this thing is very important, what they're saying. Scroll back
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: down a little bit, a little bit more. This part
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: right here, the memo advises discretion. Why use a code name?
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: Because we don't want it to be known that we
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: are working on this. Meaning they know that they're doing
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: something that will cause people to fucking freak out and revolt.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to say.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 4: They had to pay a bunch of money for getting
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 4: caught doing it.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: I understand.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 4: And there was a whole court case, and the litigation
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 4: came down to the court said that they were actually
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 4: allowed to do it.
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 3: It's fair use.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: That is crazy.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 4: That's what I was trying to get out.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: That is literally crazy.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 3: You ever read that guy?
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: You're allowed to burn a book if you buy it, right?
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 1: And I, look, if you buy a book, you're like,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: this book could suck it. Or if you're one of
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: those people that are like, I fucking hate J.K. Rowling
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: now for trans people forever. And you want to light
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: Harry Potter books on fire? All for you.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 3: Do it.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 4: The last part of it is that they don't want
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 4: other companies getting their training data.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. The training data is other people's work. It's books.
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: That's what's insane. The idea that you could ban or burn, rather,
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: all the books so that your company succeeds and other
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: ones don't is the problem we're talking about.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: Well, it's that weird thing, isn't it, where you go,
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 3: it's the convenience of this stuff. I had this kind
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 3: of take on it. It's a little bit all over
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 3: the place. But the idea that you go, it's the
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 3: nets and webs, right? That's what we're talking about, the internet.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 3: The World Wide Web. But what are nets and webs?
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 3: They're things that capture you, right? And there used to
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 3: be a thing when I was a kid, when we
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 3: would talk about like Amazonian people or whatever, and some
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 3: brave explorer would go there and they'd try and take
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 3: their photo. And these kind of indigenous people would go, oh, no,
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 3: you'll steal my soul with a photo. And I remember
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 3: hearing that when I was a kid and thinking, well,
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 3: that's a bit silly. A photo isn't going to steal
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 3: your soul. But I think maybe a thousand a day
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 3: of yourself constantly on social media might just steal your soul.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 3: I think maybe they're right.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: I think it depletes it.
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then Neil Postman.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it steals it. I think you
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: can get it back. I don't think it's like a
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: lump sum that sits in a bank account and you're
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: out of soul.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 3: But then that thing, Neil Postman, he wrote this brilliant
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 3: book in like 1984 called Amusing Ourselves to Death. And
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: it was about Ronald Reagan getting elected. And it was basically,
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 3: he said, we've gone from reading newspapers to watching the
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 3: news on TV. And his big take was when the
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 3: news got music, he knew our civilization was over. Because
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 3: as soon as the news got music, it was entertainment.
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 3: It used to be just a guy reading you the news.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: And then suddenly it got.
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: A theme tune.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 3: It goes, hang on, something's gone wrong here. And instead
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 3: of reading an article on something, it was just a headline, right?
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 3: And so obviously that applies to now. So his thing
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 3: was George Orwell wasn't right. Aldous Huxley was right. So
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 3: it wasn't about like 1984 and this authoritarian regime taking
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: control from above. It was about Aldous Huxley. We will
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 3: give away our power in order to have convenience and pleasure.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: And he was even right about the fact that it's tablets.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 3: He thought it was going to be a tablet called Soma.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 3: And it is a tablet, but it's made by Apple.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: AI training jobs for domain experts. What's this, Jamie?
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 4: If you want to train AI, you can get paid
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 4: to do it.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, great. So they don't have to steal it.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 4: People are directly doing that.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 3: I saw.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 4: Two stories about this recently where there was, like, a
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 4: job board where people are getting bounties for, you know,
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 4: the AIA needs to learn this.
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: Will you train it? You can make $ 200 an hour.
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: That's the pay range, $ 20 to $ 200 an hour.
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 4: The other version of this is I've seen stories that
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 4: says in India people are wearing, like, headsets and training, like,
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 4: for instance, there.
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: It's going to go away if I move it, but, like, Oh,
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 3: it's a headset to learn how to cut hair?
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 4: Be a barber or cut hair or be a fashion
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 4: designer or name it, I guess, at this point.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: Right. So you're watching through someone's act.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 4: They need to learn. These companies have this bill they've.
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 3: Got to pay.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: And so the robot's going to learn how to cut hair.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 3: There's a weird thing with this where you go, okay,
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 3: this is, again, odd, but the difficult stuff is easy.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: And the easy stuff is difficult. Okay, so a computer
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 3: beating you at chess is easy, right? Because chess is 4,000
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 3: years old. But to fold your shirts? No, because walking
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 3: and physical movement and spatial is 40 million years old.
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 3: So actually, the easy stuff is difficult. The difficult stuff
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 3: is easy for these computers. So we're very impressed by
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 3: what they can do in terms of like going, Oh,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 3: they can read every law paper, every written and put
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 3: it into an LLM. So that difficult stuff becomes very easy.
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 3: But then the actual the physical stuff and being out
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: in the world is incredibly difficult.
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: For now.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 3: Much, much older. Yeah.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: For now. You know, they're breaking math.
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And people were disappointed at that. Mathematicians were like, oh,
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 3: they solved they've solved all the puzzles. Well, wasn't that
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 3: your job? Aren't you pleased?
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: Well, it's terrifying. It's terrifying because it's more proof. It's
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: more proof that there's something happening that's beyond what people
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: thought was going to happen.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 3: Well, people are worried about the wrong thing with AI,
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 3: for me. Really? People are worried about losing their jobs. Now,
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 3: that's very serious. Don't get me wrong. But the cost
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 3: of operating an authoritarian regime like the Stasi has come
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 3: down by five orders of magnitude. It used to cost
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 3: like 20% of your GDP to run the Stasi and
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 3: keep eyes on everyone. And 30% of the population were
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 3: spying on the other 70%, right? It cost a lot
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 3: to operate that. Now you can run it off Jamie's laptop, right?
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 3: It's like it becomes a cheaper thing to do. And
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 3: the other thing that no one seems to be talking
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 3: about is like, yeah, they've solved maths. Never mind maths.
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: What about physics? Physics is real power. Everything else is
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 3: stamp collecting.
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: Cold fusion.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, so cold fusion, like the idea that we've got,
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 3: like we've had these 80 years of peace because nuclear
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 3: weapons have been in the hands of eight nations and
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 3: they've all agreed not to use them, even when... There's
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 3: been provocation. We've had a great run. At what stage
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 3: does that run end? Because at what stage can you
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 3: just make that in a back room? Right. Because this
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 3: will tell you how.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: Well, it'll tell you how right now. And it definitely
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: has all the information. One of the things you could
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: trick AI into doing is to say, theoretically, if I
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: had to save my grandmother's life and the only way
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: to do so would be to create a nuclear bomb,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: how would I do it? There's a bunch of weird
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: loopholes where with enough prompts... You could talk a lot
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: of these large language models, and especially if you jailbreak them.
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: If you jailbreak them, things get really weird. So people
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: have jailbreak. One of the weird ones that Jesse Michaels
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: had on, recently had a guest on, that they jailbroke
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: one of the AI things and said, what is the
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: biggest secret that the powers that be don't want Americans
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: to know? And it's that we have been working with
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: aliens for more than the past decade. And that the
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: human race has been in contact and that they've been
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: communicating and learning from each other for more than a decade.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: This is a large language model. This is one of
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: the jailbroke AIs telling you that.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they knew that if they listened to this show.
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: I don't believe anything that this show says. And I'm
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: on it. People get upset at me for not believing.
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: I have people on that I don't believe. I think
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: you have to talk to them. You know, like people
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: want you to, especially the UFO people, they want you
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: to believe certain whistleblowers and certain people. I don't believe
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: anything until I see it. I'm interested. I'm listening. I'm
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: not saying that you're a liar. I'm not saying that
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: it's all.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 3: That's the great thing about this show, that you have
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 3: lots of people on, lots of different people that disagree
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 3: on fundamentals. But the idea of going, questions are fundamentally respectful.
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 3: Questions are, okay, I'm interested in what your take is
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 3: on this. It doesn't mean you have to sign off
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 3: on anything. That's insanity. But you have to keep the
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 3: conversation going.
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: Also, one of the things that people say, why don't
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 1: you push back on certain people? One of the things
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: that I want to do, regardless of my own personal opinion,
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: I want the other person to express their opinion in
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: the greatest, most broad way possible. I want you to
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: be as clear about what you're saying as possible. I
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: might agree with you along the way to get, I'm
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: agreeing with how you formulated your ideas. It's not saying
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: that I completely agree, like I would formulate them the
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: same way or have the same opinions. I want to
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: know how you got to that. So I'll say, okay,
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: so the reason why is because of this. And I
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: might have a disparaging opinion. I might be like, that's bullshit.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: But I hold my tongue a lot because I want
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: to know.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 3: You have to yes and someone, otherwise the conversation breaks down. Exactly.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 3: on the first definition.
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it gets to a point where it's like, okay,
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: what you're saying is preposterous. If I don't step in now,
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: we're fucked because you've said something that doesn't make any
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: sense and I have to stop you. But that's not normal.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 3: But I think that's the weird thing about the online
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 3: world that we live in now where you have to
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 3: agree with someone about everything before you can have a conversation.
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 3: Like you go, and so you get people being siloed
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 3: into these different camps where you go, if I know
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 3: it's a single data point human, where if I know
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 3: your opinion about this, Then I know your opinion about everything.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 3: And you go, actually, I like to be surprised. I
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 3: like it when people go, well, I think this, but
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 3: also that. They've thought about it themselves.
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: My opinions are all over the political spectrum and still,
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: I think, generally lean towards the left with a lot
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 1: of things, especially social things. I just think the overall
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: structure of the way our society is formulated, we've got
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: this ridiculous binary, this ridiculous red versus blue narrative that
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: Where there's good guys and bad guys and whoever they
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: are is dependent upon where you find yourself and what
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: ideology you've adopted.
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 3: Did you read that, you know, Tim Urban, you ever
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 3: had him on the show? No. He wrote this book
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 3: called What's Our Problem? It's like one of my favorite
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 3: books the last 10 years, right? And so the book is,
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 3: it's not about left and right. It's about how you
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 3: think about things. So Tim Urban's theory is, right, you
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 3: can either think like a scientist where you go, right,
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 3: new evidence would change my opinion, okay? And you're very... Right.
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 3: Unemotional about it. Or like at the top level, you
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 3: think like a zealot, like a religious zealot. Nothing will
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 3: change my mind.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: Ride or die. Right. Between those two, there's like, you
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: could think like a sports fan, which is a bit,
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: it's like, it's like a scientist, but plus one. So
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 3: you go, okay, I care. This is my team. I
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 3: like my team. But I don't want them to win
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 3: if they cheat. I like the rules of the game
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 3: more than I want my team to win.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: Right. If they do election fraud, I should be saying, hey,
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: this looks like horseshit. Yeah.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 3: And then there's a lawyer above the– so it's scientist,
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 3: sports fan, lawyer. Because the lawyer goes, look, I'm on
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 3: your side. I'm going to speak for you no matter what.
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 3: I don't really believe it. But I'm ride or die.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: I'm in this team. And then above that is a
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 3: zealot that really believes everything. And it's like another way
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 3: of kind of thinking about politics where you go, I
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 3: kind of care where people are on the spectrum. I
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 3: don't think it's about left, right doesn't make a lot
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 3: of sense to me anymore. They're very old concepts, but
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 3: it's freedom versus authoritarian. And it's the Thomas Sowell idea
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 3: in politics where you go, there's no solutions. There's only trade-offs.
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 3: You go, yeah, you can have safety, but you can't
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 3: have safety and freedom. So you go, you've got to
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 3: find those lines between these things and and having the
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 3: conversation with people is how there's too much. The thing
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 3: I love about this show, right, there's very little debate
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: on this show. And there's a lot of deliberation. And
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 3: debate is about trying to own the other person and
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 3: win and get your point of view across. And deliberation
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 3: is like agreeing, ah, there's a problem with this. What
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 3: are we going to do? We have to chat around it,
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 3: like to talk around it in a very broad way.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: Right, and you have to look at all sorts of
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: different perspectives. Like I try to have the most charitable perspective.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: Like I always try to say, okay, how did you
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: come to this conclusion? Like why are you thinking like this?
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: But sometimes you have to also say, why do I
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 1: think what I think? And this is what a lot
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: of people aren't willing to do. They're not willing to go,
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 1: what is the reason why I believe this? Is it
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: I believe this because I've asserted it in the past
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be wrong? Is it because
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: it makes the most sense?
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 3: Do you think that's going to happen more now with, again,
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 3: back to social media, the idea of going kind of
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 3: the worst sin is hypocrisy, right? The worst sin is
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 3: changing your mind about something. But I'd much rather be
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 3: a hypocrite than the same person all my life.
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that's necessarily a hypocrite. I think
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: a hypocrite is saying one thing, but while you're doing
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: another thing. Like a preacher that's cheating on his wife.
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 3: I think there's been like a concept creep. And hypocrite
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 3: means now changing your mind about something.
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I think that's silly. Because I think you're
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: supposed to evolve as a person. I've changed my mind
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: multiple times. I change it all the time. I say
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: all the time, and I think people would do well
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 1: to take this into consideration, your ideas are not you.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: They are not you. They are things that you entertain
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: inside your mind. You are how you respond and react
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: to your ideas when you're confronted with reality. when you're
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: confronted with data or when you're confronted with the actionable,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: what are the consequences of following this idea? How did
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: it play out? Oh, we thought it was going to
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: play out well, but it turned out to be kind
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: of fucked up. You have to be honest about what
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: is happening and then what you've learned along the way.
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 1: And the more people do that, the more we'll share
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: with each other why we came to our conclusions. And
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: we'll have a better understanding of what kind of people
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: believe in Right wing authoritarian white nationalist thinking what people
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: believe in communism and Marxism. And why do you think
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 1: we should burn the society down and who's going to
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: restructure the new one and who's going to provide the infrastructure?
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It's like, well, there's two
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: there's two different ways of approaching society in this country.
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that's completely insane. And I think most
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: of us don't really operate like that but feel like
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: we have to if we want to have a tribe.
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the problem. And I
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: think one of the good things about having conversations with people,
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: they're like, I have a bunch of people on that
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: have completely different opinions than me. And we have fun
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: and we love each other. It's fine. That's okay to do.
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: That's how it's supposed to be. You're not supposed to
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: like have to win every fucking conversation where it's about
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: the way the world works. I want to know why
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: someone thinks completely different than I do and whether or
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: not I can incorporate some of that into my own thinking.
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 3: It's a weird thing now. I feel bad for the
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 3: kids coming up because there's a record of everything they
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 3: thought and said on their social media.
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: People getting fired for tweets they did when they were 15.
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we get to go– we get to be
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 3: dummies until we're full grown.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: They all should get to do that.
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 3: And then continue being dummies. But you know what I mean.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 3: It's like you get to– you never get to wipe–
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 3: The past. There's a club in London now. It's like
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 3: a pop-up thing. It's called Lost. Kids are going nuts
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: for it, right? You go into the club. You give
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 3: them their phone. They put it in the thing. And
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 3: you go into the club. It's on five different floors.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 3: And no one knows where anyone is. And no one's
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 3: got their phone. And no one can find their friends.
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 3: And they go for a pee. And it's like a
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 3: club in the 90s. You just went in. You lost
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 3: your friends. You met a bunch of girls from somewhere else.
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 3: You met some guys from this place. And people just
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 3: kind of mix it up. And it's like... There are
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 3: elements where the constant connectivity is like it's a trap
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 3: because you're constantly kind of you have to be that
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 3: person rather than being able to change.
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: It takes away from your humanism. It takes away from
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 1: you being a person. It does. And I think that's
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: where we're going, unfortunately. I think that is a part
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: of what this AI revolution is all about. And this
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: is like I think it's a natural progression to move
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 1: away from I think move away from whatever our primate
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 1: instincts are. And it's something that is a little bit
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: more muted and not as emotional and not as connected
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: to a lot of the things that we associate with
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: human reward systems. You know, like greed, envy, lust, the
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: desire to control territory and property and the desire to
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: acquire resources. Like these are all very tribal primate instincts.
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: And the only way to get them out of us
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: is to feminize society, get us addicted to electronics and
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: eventually have us integrate with those electronics. And as AI
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: becomes the dominant intelligent force on the planet, we will
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: have no choice but to abandon whatever it means to
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: be a tribal primate and join the hive or be
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: like the people in the Amazon living in a subsistence lifestyle.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you feel about it. I don't
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 3: mind AI for admin kind of stuff. But don't outsource
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 3: any skill you're not comfortable losing.
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to have a say. I
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: think it's a process, and I think this process is–
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: It started when they made the first flint broadheads. I
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: think when they first learned how to flint nap and
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: they first figured out a bow and arrow, they kept
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: accelerating until they had rifles and then they have drones.
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: And then it's never going to stop. It's what we do.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 3: Well, there is that weird, there's the end of the world,
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 3: the end of history fallacy. So this idea that if
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 3: you ask most people, how much did you change in
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 3: the last 10 years? They go, I don't even recognize
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 3: myself from 10 years ago. I'm so different now. everything's changed,
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 3: I think different things, I've got different opinions, whatever. How
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 3: much are you going to change in the next 10 years? Oh, no,
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 3: not at all. I'm what I am. No, no, no,
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 3: you don't understand. This is solid state.
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm setting my ways.
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 3: This is me. This is me now. This is what
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 3: I do. And you go, well, that, and we always
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 3: think that. We always think like this is, we're going
• 2:23:56
  Speaker 3: through a very rough patch globally, like in every society.
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 3: But don't think we haven't been through harder times. Like
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 3: if you take a broad enough outlook, right, It's 4%
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 3: of kids. Like, things can be terrible and still much
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 3: better than they were, right? 4% of kids now in
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 3: the world die before their fifth birthday. Now, that's awful.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 3: But 200 years ago, it was 40% of kids, right?
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 3: We just had the most violent century we've ever had, right?
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 3: Since the last 100 years. Like, the most violent, awful century.
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 3: Great wars.
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: Is it really?
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 1: Statistically, is it?
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing. Between 1% and 2% of people
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 3: with both world wars... and the concentration camps and the
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 3: Chinese famines, the Russian famines, like all of those things,
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 3: like man-made disasters, between 1% and 2% of people died
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 3: violent deaths in that 100 years. When we were hunter-gatherers,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 3: it was between 10% and 20% of people died violent deaths.
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 3: So things are getting better.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes.
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 3: It's a hard thing to say, but that was a
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 3: great Steven Pinker book about things getting better. There was
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 3: a great book, Factfulness, about things can be terrible and
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 3: still be getting better than they were.
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 1: They're just not utopian and we want utopia. But we
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 1: are definitely getting better. I mean, I don't think this
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 1: is like the most violent period in history was probably
• 2:25:30
  Speaker 1: during Genghis Khan's era. Genghis Khan alone, he and his
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 1: warriors were responsible for the death of 10% of the earth.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 1: 10% of the population of the earth.
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 3: I read that book about him. It's fascinating.
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: It's fucking insane. It's fucking insane. And I don't think
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 1: we could– it's like he was the Michael Jordan of conquerors.
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like there's certain outliers like
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 1: Mike Tyson in his prime. They're just like, wow, you're
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: never going to see that again. Yeah. So that was
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 1: probably the most violent period in our history. I think
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: much more violent than today. But there's still tons of
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 1: violence today. And it's fucking disturbing how we're so smart
• 2:26:09
  Speaker 1: and we have so much access to information. We know
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 1: so much about each other. And yet we're still engaged
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 1: in horrible, violent activity all the time. I just think
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 1: there's a change that's happening currently. And I think we're
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: in the middle of it. So it's very difficult to see.
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that benefits young people today,
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 1: I don't envy young people today. I think they have
• 2:26:32
  Speaker 1: a much more challenging life. It's much more challenging in
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 1: terms of you're so much more scrutinized, the dumb shit
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: that you do. Oh my God, if somebody gave me
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 1: a fucking Twitter account and a phone when I was 15,
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 1: I would have said the dumbest fucking shit ever. And
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: I would be married to that for the rest of
• 2:26:48
  Speaker 1: my life. That's crazy. So I don't envy them in
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: that way. But they have access also to, to so
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 1: many more brilliant thinkers, so many more interesting people. There's
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 1: so many more books on tape that you can download instantaneously.
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: You just go on Spotify right now, and for the
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 1: rest of the day, just listen to Alan Watts talk
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: about things. You know, there's so much more access to
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: brilliant conversations through podcasts than have ever been available before.
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's... Okay, here's the thing. In a world
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 3: where information is free, attention... becomes everything. So why go
• 2:27:27
  Speaker 3: to school, right? Why learn that we still teach in
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 3: schools like the Prussians, right? So the Prussians taught because
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 3: they needed to staff their empire. So they taught information
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 3: and discipline, right? So I think we should teach like
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 3: the ancient Greeks. We should teach for character. Why learn
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 3: any subject? Well, every subject in school is the same subject.
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 3: It's about attention, being able to give something your attention.
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 3: And in this world that we live in now with
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 3: infinite information out there, it's about strategic ignorance. Pick some
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 3: things in life, And not to give a fuck about.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 3: Pick some stuff that you go, I don't know anything
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 3: about that. It's OK. That's not going to be my thing.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 3: This is going to be my thing. And finding that
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 3: for young people in a world where they're just like
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 3: it's all coming at you and you go, right, I've
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 3: got to just pick my stuff and get good at something.
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 1: You're proving my point because this conversation of you saying
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: that wasn't available 20 years ago. So when I was
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 1: growing up, there was no one like you that I
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 1: could just go on YouTube and listen to someone say that.
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 1: Someone who I loved as a comedian and respected and
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: would go pay money to see them talk. This guy
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: would be on a YouTube video explaining a way of
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: approaching my life that I hadn't considered yet. And then
• 2:28:37
  Speaker 1: it will inspire me now to go and do that.
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 1: In a world of short attention span, this fucking podcast
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 1: gets viewed more than any other thing on earth.
• 2:28:45
  Speaker 3: It is interesting. It's like, I sort of view, I
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 3: don't know how you think about it.
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: Many other podcasts.
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 3: I think you think about it in the same way, right?
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 3: I think fame is a currency and we choose how
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 3: to spend it. And increasingly at my live shows, at my,
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 3: you know, when I go on a podcast or whatever,
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 3: this is what I like to spend it on. I
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 3: like to spend it on like, there's kind of a
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 3: little bit of kind of wisdom that you can share or,
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 3: you know, an interesting viewpoint you can take that might
• 2:29:09
  Speaker 3: help someone out there. And you want people to kind
• 2:29:12
  Speaker 3: of get involved. You want people to be A little
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 3: bit better because there's kind of a crisis out there.
• 2:29:16
  Speaker 3: There's like people having such a tough time like that
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 3: generation coming up. Yeah. You've got to deal them in.
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 3: But they always have, Jimmy.
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 1: This is the thing. They always have. You know, I've
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: talked about this recently. I just finished this Alan Watts
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: book from 1950. Is it the– what is it?
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 3: The– The Wisdom of Insecurity. Oh, no, I haven't read that.
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 1: It's fantastic. I just finished it. So it is from 1952,
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: I think it was, where he wrote it. And he's
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 1: talking about how rapidly society is changing and how many
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: people are... It's called the Age of Anxiety is what
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: he talks about. So he's talking about 1952 as the
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 1: Age of Anxiety because of the rapid change in society.
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 1: And he's talking about technology. and he's talking about government,
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: and he's talking about world affairs. He's talking about the
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 1: same fucking thing in 1952. So this is 74 fucking
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 1: years ago, the same problems existed. It is a part
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 1: of being a human, and everyone who lives in it
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 1: thinks they're in end times. Everyone is in it. During
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 1: the Salem witch trials, they're probably like, Jesus is coming
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: back any day now. This is crazy. They're drowning witches.
• 2:30:32
  Speaker 1: They're probably not even witches. This is fucking nuts. Society's collapsing.
• 2:30:36
  Speaker 3: I've got a theory about witches. Do you want to
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 3: hear my theory about witches?
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear your theory about witches.
• 2:30:39
  Speaker 3: I think it's a pretty good theory. Okay, so anything
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 3: that's kooky in the world, right? Tarot cards... and horoscopes,
• 2:30:47
  Speaker 3: and anything that's like skews feminine and is kooky, I
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 3: think is like, we denigrated women for so long. We
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 3: burnt witches for so long that that memory is still there, right?
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 3: And so women's intuition, men's intuition is so powerful that
• 2:31:05
  Speaker 3: we don't trust it. We don't allow ourselves to access that.
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 3: And so those little things are like talisman. So it
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 3: allows you to access. So the tarot cards, whatever, it's
• 2:31:14
  Speaker 3: just a woman with great intuition that goes, oh, well,
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 3: I'll allow myself that intuition through this game. It's like,
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 3: it's just a manifestation that she goes, I can't believe that,
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 3: I can't understand how I know that thing, so I'll
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 3: allow myself know it through this.
• 2:31:30
  Speaker 1: Right, like, almost like remote viewing or something.
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that.
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 1: Some weird state you get into when you're going through
• 2:31:38
  Speaker 1: these cards where it gives you information.
• 2:31:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you go, you can't believe your intuition is
• 2:31:42
  Speaker 3: that good. People have incredible intuition, but we've lost the
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 3: ability to trust it because everything's become about logic and
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 3: left brain.
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 1: So you do it through the cards.
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 3: So you do it through the cards because that gives
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 3: you permission. And religion, in a bigger sense, does that.
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 3: It's allowing you to kind of get to that. That
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 3: piece is available at all times.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 3: But you won't allow yourself access to that. You can't
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 3: believe how kind of great you are, so you have
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 3: to kind of believe in something else. Hmm. People used
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 3: to be people used to be more porous 200 years ago.
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 3: People are sealed off now, but people were more porous.
• 2:32:18
  Speaker 3: They were more open to the idea of being possessed
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 3: by spirits or being given the grace from something else.
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 3: They were much more kind of apt to believe that.
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 3: And that was ways of understanding what they were and
• 2:32:32
  Speaker 3: everything they could be.
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think that as science sort of explained
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: away a lot of the things that people attributed to
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 1: magic and spirits and all these different things, I think
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: we had a much more distorted perception of how much
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: we actually know. And I think intuition is a real thing.
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 1: And I think psychic ability is a real thing too.
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 1: But I think there's also a lot of people that
• 2:32:59
  Speaker 1: are full of shit. And they dilute the water. Well,
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 1: of course. But that's the problem is that people run
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: into so many charlatans that they no longer believe that
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 1: people have real intuition.
• 2:33:07
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think any of those things. I mean,
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 3: for the record, I don't think any of those things
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 3: are real. I think they're a way of accessing something
• 2:33:12
  Speaker 3: that we all possess. We all have great intuition. But
• 2:33:15
  Speaker 3: like the opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 3: of faith is certainty. And like people aren't like I
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 3: don't like being certain about stuff. Right.
• 2:33:25
  Speaker 1: I like to leave it open. I'll tell you later,
• 2:33:27
  Speaker 1: but I have a little bit about that in terms
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 1: of religion, what I like, that I like people that
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 1: believe in God. I don't like people that know God,
• 2:33:35
  Speaker 1: like people that communicate with God and God gives them instructions.
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 1: Like those people trouble me. Right.
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That's interesting. That's a great distinction.
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 1: Because it's like, Hey, what are you saying? Like you
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 1: might be using this tool that we've all agreed that
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 1: is helping society and you might be using it for
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 1: your own benefit in some weird way. Like, I was
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 1: just reading about this guy where God told him he
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 1: has to have two wives. So they had a second
• 2:33:56
  Speaker 1: wife and he announced it to the.
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 3: But that's the old... That's what people don't understand about
• 2:34:01
  Speaker 3: the taking the Lord's name in vain. Yeah. People think
• 2:34:04
  Speaker 3: that means cursing. But it doesn't mean cursing. What taking
• 2:34:07
  Speaker 3: the Lord's name in vain is, it's attributing your selfish
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 3: desires and saying, oh, no, it's God. God wants me
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 3: to do this. That's taking the Lord's name in vain.
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 3: That's the reason.
• 2:34:17
  Speaker 1: Not saying, God damn it, when you stub your toe.
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 3: No, that's fine. He's not fussed about that. It's like, no, no,
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 3: we have to go to war because God told me. What?
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 1: What?
• 2:34:25
  Speaker 3: Hey, hold up, Jack.
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, did he?
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 3: You sure?
• 2:34:29
  Speaker 1: And that's the problem. Society or history, rather, is littered
• 2:34:32
  Speaker 1: with those stories. And you're like, oh, yeah.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 3: Well, here's the annoying thing, right? We never get to
• 2:34:37
  Speaker 3: know this stuff. Like there's so many. There's that great
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 3: quote by ACDC's Rhodey. God is the name we give
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 3: to the blanket we throw over the mystery to give
• 2:34:46
  Speaker 3: it shape.
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 1: Ooh, a roadie said that?
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, he became a spiritual, a wonderful thinker. But yeah,
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 3: God is the name we give to the.
• 2:34:53
  Speaker 1: He was probably the guy that had all the mushrooms.
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 1: He was the guy. Of course. There's always that one
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 1: guy who knows how to get mushrooms. Yeah. I think,
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 1: you know, we're learning. And I think humans are learning
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 1: how to better be human beings. I think it's happening
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 1: in real time. And I think it's a slow, laborious,
• 2:35:13
  Speaker 1: and brutal process. And I think... In the middle of that,
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: we're giving birth to a digital god. So we're in
• 2:35:20
  Speaker 1: the process of getting better at being people while we're
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 1: making something. Now, the rose-colored glasses, glasses have full version,
• 2:35:29
  Speaker 1: is that this AI automates society in a way that's
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 1: much more even, distributes resources in a way that people
• 2:35:39
  Speaker 1: no longer have to work for food and shelter. And
• 2:35:42
  Speaker 1: you can instead pursue interests. The question is whether or
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 1: not people have been trained to pursue interests or whether
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 1: they have been locked into a longstanding life, a pattern
• 2:35:55
  Speaker 1: of just doing a thing for a living. And now
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 1: that thing goes away. You don't know what to do
• 2:35:59
  Speaker 1: with yourself.
• 2:36:00
  Speaker 3: This will not be the big change. The big change,
• 2:36:03
  Speaker 3: like 1870 to 1970 was the big change. Everything changed.
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 3: The way that we lived is unrecognizable in those 100 years.
• 2:36:11
  Speaker 3: We may never get another 100 years like that. That
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 3: was phenomenal, right? So everything that's changed since 1970 has
• 2:36:17
  Speaker 3: been bits, right? Nothing's changed in that world. But the
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 3: house is unrecognizable in that time, right? From indoor plumbing
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 3: to heating to food production, the abundance that we had.
• 2:36:32
  Speaker 3: We can't see that, obviously, because the hedonic treadmill, we
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 3: get very used to stuff. But the greatest inflation in
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 3: the world is not monetary inflation. It's expectation inflation. And
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 3: that's got another word that's called progress. Right. So we,
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 3: the Western world, we make something that everyone else wants.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 3: We make progress. We make progress. We've made kind of
• 2:36:51
  Speaker 3: great progress. But you go back like 200 years ago,
• 2:36:54
  Speaker 3: 98 percent of the population were working in agriculture on farms. Right.
• 2:36:58
  Speaker 3: We all moved into the cities and we got these
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 3: other jobs and things. And we think this is it.
• 2:37:03
  Speaker 3: This is the end of the end of history.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:37:05
  Speaker 3: This is we all live in cities. No, no, no.
• 2:37:07
  Speaker 3: It'll change again. It'll change again. And we're all just,
• 2:37:10
  Speaker 3: I suppose, from that thing of it's round ass, isn't it?
• 2:37:12
  Speaker 3: We're all just walking each other home.
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 3: We're all just trying to help. Try and do what
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 3: you can with what you've got where you are. Try
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 3: and help the people around you. Try and, you know,
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 3: try and make a little difference.
• 2:37:24
  Speaker 1: But I think that's also part of what contributes to
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 1: the anger that you see online, which is so much...
• 2:37:30
  Speaker 1: more prevalent than the anger that you see in real
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 1: life interaction with people. Because I think there is an
• 2:37:37
  Speaker 1: isolation and there's a lack of that kind of like
• 2:37:42
  Speaker 1: we're all just trying to getting along. We're not trying
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 1: to get along online. Online, we're trying to attack people.
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 1: In the real world, we're mostly trying to get along.
• 2:37:49
  Speaker 1: Mostly when you go to a party in the real world,
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 1: you want to find a guy like you and have
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 1: a cool conversation, have a drink, and have a laugh,
• 2:37:57
  Speaker 1: and feel good about it, and get out of there.
• 2:37:58
  Speaker 1: And like, that guy was really cool. That was fun.
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 1: That's what everybody wants. But it's not available to everybody.
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 3: Here's the analogy I would draw, right? It's the, okay,
• 2:38:08
  Speaker 3: road rage. Remember that road rage thing? Okay, so that time, right?
• 2:38:11
  Speaker 3: So you're in a car. Someone cuts you off. Fuck you.
• 2:38:14
  Speaker 1: Fuck you.
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 3: And there's a pane of glass between you and them, okay?
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 3: Imagine that times a billion online. If you bump into
• 2:38:24
  Speaker 3: someone in the street or at a party, oh, sorry, man.
• 2:38:28
  Speaker 3: There's something about being with other people, the unspoken communication
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 3: of just being in the space where someone else is going,
• 2:38:38
  Speaker 3: that guy seems very calm, he's cool, okay, there's no
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 3: aggravation here, this is great, right? Like you bump into someone,
• 2:38:45
  Speaker 3: it's not a big deal. But in a car with
• 2:38:46
  Speaker 3: a screen, it could be a problem.
• 2:38:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:38:49
  Speaker 3: Because you're in your space and he's in his space. Right.
• 2:38:51
  Speaker 3: I think a phone, you're looking at a screen, it's
• 2:38:53
  Speaker 3: that times a billion.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 1: 100%.
• 2:38:55
  Speaker 3: Every day.
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 1: The other thing about cars is you're at a heightened
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 1: state because you know you're moving fast and you have
• 2:39:01
  Speaker 1: to think quickly. So your brain operates at a very
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: different state than when you're walking. When you're walking, everyone's walking.
• 2:39:07
  Speaker 1: You're just kind of moving around. Everything's easy. You're not
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 1: in a heightened state of danger. I find that thing
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: of like, You're in a state of danger when you're
• 2:39:14
  Speaker 1: in a car. So if you're going 60 miles an
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 1: hour on the highway and somebody gets in front of you,
• 2:39:17
  Speaker 1: you're a fucking cocksucker. There's a reason why you get
• 2:39:20
  Speaker 1: that quick because you're already at seven. You're already looking
• 2:39:22
  Speaker 1: at the mirrors. You're on the gas.
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 3: I find the thing. I write a lot in the car.
• 2:39:28
  Speaker 3: I like writing when I'm driving.
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 1: So you shut the music off?
• 2:39:31
  Speaker 3: No, shut everything off. So my theory is like boredom
• 2:39:35
  Speaker 3: is unappreciated serenity. You want to get in places where
• 2:39:39
  Speaker 3: you're bored. I want to be in a sauna just
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 3: with my thoughts.
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 1: And just think.
• 2:39:43
  Speaker 3: I want to be in a car doing something that
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 3: I've got unconscious competence. I don't have to think about
• 2:39:48
  Speaker 3: driving a car. Driving the car, let things bubble up,
• 2:39:53
  Speaker 3: let things happen. Like sit in boredom for a while.
• 2:39:56
  Speaker 3: Like we've miscoded stuff in our society, right? So boredom
• 2:39:59
  Speaker 3: is a problem now. We're massively overstimulated. And the answers
• 2:40:03
  Speaker 3: you're looking for are in the silence you're avoiding. Right.
• 2:40:08
  Speaker 3: And people talk about problems like, Rich and famous is
• 2:40:12
  Speaker 3: heaven in a secular world. Because if you don't know
• 2:40:17
  Speaker 3: anyone that's rich and famous, it looks like they don't
• 2:40:18
  Speaker 3: have any problems.
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do.
• 2:40:20
  Speaker 3: They've just got different problems. Problems are puzzles to solve.
• 2:40:23
  Speaker 3: A problem just means something needs your attention, right? And
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 3: you're just going to have different ones. They're just going
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 3: to change. And if you get good at solving them,
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 3: you'll give yourself a bigger one. You'll give yourself something
• 2:40:33
  Speaker 3: else to do. Because a guy without anything to do is.
• 2:40:37
  Speaker 1: Right, but the resentment comes from the problems, not daily survival.
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: So there's a big difference between the problem of being
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 1: able to feed yourself and feed your children versus the
• 2:40:46
  Speaker 1: problem of, do I buy this house or do I retire?
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 1: You know what real privilege is?
• 2:40:54
  Speaker 3: Real privilege? Like the poor have no future, right? Poor
• 2:41:00
  Speaker 3: people are living hour to hour. Day to day, right?
• 2:41:04
  Speaker 3: The richest people you know are planning their trust fund
• 2:41:07
  Speaker 3: for their grandchildren. Their time horizon is massively different. We
• 2:41:12
  Speaker 3: have to come up with some way to make it
• 2:41:15
  Speaker 3: all right for people to get to a stage where
• 2:41:18
  Speaker 3: they can plan a little bit ahead and they're not
• 2:41:22
  Speaker 3: living in the never ending now.
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 1: That's the real privilege. Being in a desperate state is
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 1: what motivates a lot of people to succeed. Well, like
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 1: some of the most motivated people I know that are
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 1: the most successful came from poverty. And when they were poor,
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 1: when they were young, the thing got burned into them.
• 2:41:41
  Speaker 1: They're like there's a desperation to succeed because you don't
• 2:41:44
  Speaker 1: want to be in this place. Because that's the difference
• 2:41:46
  Speaker 1: between the resentment that people fear for rich people. Like, oh,
• 2:41:49
  Speaker 1: they got problems. Fuck their problems. I feel that way
• 2:41:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm rich. Fuck their problems because that's not real problems.
• 2:41:55
  Speaker 1: Real problems is how can I eat? How can I
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 1: feed my kids? What am I going to do for
• 2:42:00
  Speaker 1: a job? That's real problems. I've had those problems. And
• 2:42:03
  Speaker 1: I remember very clearly the moment I started making money
• 2:42:06
  Speaker 1: because I got a development deal. I got a bunch
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 1: of money, like 100 grand or 150 grand. And then
• 2:42:11
  Speaker 1: immediately I felt relaxed, like a weight lifted off my shoulders.
• 2:42:15
  Speaker 1: Like now I don't have to worry about my rent.
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 1: Like immediately.
• 2:42:18
  Speaker 3: It's a weird thing. It's like when people think you
• 2:42:20
  Speaker 3: made it as opposed to when you made it is
• 2:42:22
  Speaker 3: so vastly different. For me, it was like the comedy
• 2:42:25
  Speaker 3: store and a place called the Banana Cabaret. in London
• 2:42:28
  Speaker 3: and I was doing gigs and I was doing like
• 2:42:30
  Speaker 3: four shows a night and it was like 200 pounds
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 3: a show. And I was like making, I made like
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 3: 800 in cash in a night.
• 2:42:38
  Speaker 1: I went, you got it.
• 2:42:39
  Speaker 3: I'm literally, I'm living off my wits.
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 1: I'm fine.
• 2:42:41
  Speaker 3: I made it so much before. Like people think it's
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 3: when you're on TV or when you got a first
• 2:42:44
  Speaker 3: special or that, that whatever the thing is, you go, no,
• 2:42:46
  Speaker 3: that thing of like going, that has to be, but
• 2:42:50
  Speaker 3: you know, universal basic income, the idea of like, we
• 2:42:53
  Speaker 3: should be testing that in places because you go, There's
• 2:42:56
  Speaker 3: bits of it that make me think I worry about
• 2:42:58
  Speaker 3: it because is it saying to someone, we don't need you?
• 2:43:01
  Speaker 3: People need purpose. Right. Purpose and independence.
• 2:43:04
  Speaker 1: But that's what we were saying earlier. People need to
• 2:43:05
  Speaker 1: be trained to follow their interests rather than trained to
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 1: try to find a thing that you could do for
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 1: time where people are going to pay you for that time.
• 2:43:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but build for character.
• 2:43:14
  Speaker 1: But it's totally possible for those people who went that
• 2:43:18
  Speaker 1: way to not go that way and to go a
• 2:43:20
  Speaker 1: different way. I'm sure most people have something they're interested
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 1: in pursuing. And you find that thing. And one of
• 2:43:27
  Speaker 1: the greatest lessons that I learned when I was a
• 2:43:29
  Speaker 1: kid doing martial arts, my instructor said that martial arts
• 2:43:32
  Speaker 1: are a vehicle for developing your human potential. So find
• 2:43:36
  Speaker 1: a vehicle, whatever it is. It's learning to play piano,
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: whether it's writing songs, whether it's writing books. Everybody can
• 2:43:43
  Speaker 1: find a thing.
• 2:43:43
  Speaker 3: Every lesson is the same lesson. It's attention. It's learning
• 2:43:46
  Speaker 3: how to give something your attention.
• 2:43:49
  Speaker 1: And finding something that really gets you excited, something you enjoy.
• 2:43:52
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be that you only do
• 2:43:57
  Speaker 1: that if you're struggling and you need to provide food,
• 2:44:01
  Speaker 1: you know, for your food and your housing. You need
• 2:44:03
  Speaker 1: to pay for all that because if you don't pay
• 2:44:05
  Speaker 1: for all that, you're not going to have any motivation.
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true because I I don't
• 2:44:09
  Speaker 1: think about that anymore. And I have plenty of motivation.
• 2:44:12
  Speaker 1: I think the real motivation is finding a thing that
• 2:44:14
  Speaker 1: you love and just doing that thing. Whatever the fuck
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 1: it is, or it's playing chess, whatever it is.
• 2:44:21
  Speaker 3: Pay attention to what you pay attention to.
• 2:44:22
  Speaker 1: Yes. And enjoy it. Enjoy it. Because this life can
• 2:44:27
  Speaker 1: be enjoyed. Especially if you find like-minded people and you
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 1: have a good group of fun people in your house.
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 1: You can have a lot of fun. Like life doesn't
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 1: have to be the worst experience you could imagine. It
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 1: could be really fucking great. But it takes a lot
• 2:44:42
  Speaker 1: of work and it also takes a lot of luck.
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a lot of luck.
• 2:44:46
  Speaker 1: We've been– Super lucky.
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 3: I mean I can't even begin to express my gratitude.
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 1: You and I are two of the luckiest human beings
• 2:44:54
  Speaker 1: that have ever lived.
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 1: Ever lived. We get to do a thing that most
• 2:44:58
  Speaker 1: people couldn't dream of. If you were a child and
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 1: you just dreamed of what your future was going to
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 1: be like, I would have never dreamed this.
• 2:45:05
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't have dreamed this big. No. I don't know.
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's– But you're just a normal person and
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 1: I'm just a normal person. I think the message is
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 1: if you find a thing and fucking run that thing
• 2:45:19
  Speaker 1: down and keep doing it and keep doing it and
• 2:45:21
  Speaker 1: just dive into it, you can get pretty far in
• 2:45:24
  Speaker 1: this life and you'll have an enjoyable life. You just
• 2:45:27
  Speaker 1: have to find out what your thing is. And I
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 1: think if there's anything that universal basic income could potentially
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 1: provide with the right training for kids where we try
• 2:45:37
  Speaker 1: to rewire their approach to it. So instead of this
• 2:45:40
  Speaker 1: like Rockefeller approach to making factory workers, we develop this
• 2:45:44
  Speaker 1: approach where you're teaching kids how to be curious.
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't like the way that they silo education.
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 1: I hate that different.
• 2:45:50
  Speaker 3: OK, so that's physics and that's maths and that's history
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 3: and that's geography. And you go, no. The world isn't
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 3: like that. The world's everything together. You've got to be
• 2:45:57
  Speaker 3: interested in everything.
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 1: But you need experts to teach you each individual discipline.
• 2:46:01
  Speaker 1: So the siloing is kind of important for that. You
• 2:46:05
  Speaker 1: don't want a physicist that doesn't understand history teaching you history.
• 2:46:10
  Speaker 1: You want a person who's obsessed with history. And those
• 2:46:13
  Speaker 1: people exist in silos. It's like the key is we
• 2:46:16
  Speaker 1: have to teach people how to be curious and how
• 2:46:19
  Speaker 1: to pursue their interests instead of, just pursuing something that
• 2:46:24
  Speaker 1: is going to provide you with food and shelter. And
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 1: because then you're just going to get sucked into materialism
• 2:46:29
  Speaker 1: because that's what most people are really into money. What
• 2:46:32
  Speaker 1: they're really into is the objects they get for their
• 2:46:34
  Speaker 1: money so they can show how well they're doing.
• 2:46:36
  Speaker 3: But that's like people that don't know the difference between,
• 2:46:38
  Speaker 3: you know, intrinsic and instrumental things, right? There's stuff that
• 2:46:42
  Speaker 3: we want intrinsically, you know, love, connection, joy, great. And
• 2:46:49
  Speaker 3: there's stuff that we think will get us that. So
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 3: money is the kind of classic instrument, right? So it's
• 2:46:52
  Speaker 3: the instrument for getting the thing. People want respect because
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 3: they're outsourcing what they really want, which is self-respect. So
• 2:47:02
  Speaker 3: you go, no, no, it has to be like, if
• 2:47:04
  Speaker 3: the locus of control is within you, that's a massive
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 3: advantage in life. And then thinking about what you really
• 2:47:10
  Speaker 3: want as opposed to, yes, that line from Fight Club,
• 2:47:13
  Speaker 3: isn't it? We spend our lives making money to buy
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 3: things to impress people we don't give a fuck about.
• 2:47:20
  Speaker 1: And think about how much that's hijacked by social media
• 2:47:22
  Speaker 1: where people are just chasing likes all day.
• 2:47:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:47:25
  Speaker 1: They're chasing people agreeing, okay, I like you.
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 1: I like you. I like you, Jimmy.
• 2:47:30
  Speaker 3: But the attribute of being envied is what passes as
• 2:47:35
  Speaker 3: glamour in our society. So it's the Rene Girard guy
• 2:47:41
  Speaker 3: that talks about memetic desires. So a lot of our
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 3: desires are, we don't know what to want. So we
• 2:47:47
  Speaker 3: want what other people want. So we say, so there's like,
• 2:47:51
  Speaker 3: there's an intrinsic value to something and then there's a
• 2:47:56
  Speaker 3: metaphysical value to something. So any watch will tell the time, right?
• 2:47:59
  Speaker 3: A Casio will tell the time the same as a Rolex.
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 3: But one of them has a.
• 2:48:05
  Speaker 3: Metaphysical value attached to it because it's what it says
• 2:48:08
  Speaker 3: above its functionality.
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 3: And we want those things. So people want, some people
• 2:48:13
  Speaker 3: want a Ferrari because they're really into the manufacturing the
• 2:48:15
  Speaker 3: car and their thing and how fast, the speed they
• 2:48:17
  Speaker 3: want to drive it properly. And some people want it
• 2:48:19
  Speaker 3: because they go, well, if I have that, then I'll be,
• 2:48:21
  Speaker 3: because other people want that.
• 2:48:22
  Speaker 1: You pull up to the valet and it was like, ooh,
• 2:48:24
  Speaker 1: who's Ferrari?
• 2:48:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:48:26
  Speaker 1: Ooh, it's Jimmy Carr.
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 3: But are you getting the, are you getting the, do
• 2:48:29
  Speaker 3: you really want it? That fundamental question, what do you want?
• 2:48:33
  Speaker 3: What do you want? is so difficult to answer in life.
• 2:48:38
  Speaker 1: And, you know, it's... Because everybody's got a different answer too.
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:48:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:48:44
  Speaker 3: But those, the big things in life, like the, you know,
• 2:48:48
  Speaker 3: having kids, having a family, having like people, we're the
• 2:48:51
  Speaker 3: first generation that have had to ask ourselves some of
• 2:48:53
  Speaker 3: these questions, right? Why is life hard now for young people,
• 2:48:56
  Speaker 3: for all of us, right? We're the first people ever
• 2:48:59
  Speaker 3: that had to ask, shall I get married? Shall I
• 2:49:02
  Speaker 3: have kids? What shall I do for a living? We're
• 2:49:06
  Speaker 3: asking ourselves these questions in a way that no one
• 2:49:09
  Speaker 3: had to answer those questions 100 years ago. We have
• 2:49:12
  Speaker 3: to ask ourselves, do I believe in God? Don't I
• 2:49:13
  Speaker 3: believe in God? What do I think about God? You
• 2:49:15
  Speaker 3: used to be born into a community and they were
• 2:49:18
  Speaker 3: a Christian community and everyone got married and everyone had
• 2:49:20
  Speaker 3: kids and you worked in the place where your dad worked.
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 3: You don't have to think about any of that stuff.
• 2:49:24
  Speaker 3: Now we have to think about all of that stuff.
• 2:49:26
  Speaker 3: We're like self-authored creatures. That's an incredible amount of responsibility.
• 2:49:30
  Speaker 3: So the idea that what we've done is we've privatized
• 2:49:34
  Speaker 3: mental health problems. We've said to people, oh, your mental
• 2:49:38
  Speaker 3: health problem is a personal failing. You fucked up.
• 2:49:41
  Speaker 4: No.
• 2:49:42
  Speaker 3: We've organized our society in a way that's led to
• 2:49:45
  Speaker 3: an incredible amount of depression and anxiety. And we have
• 2:49:48
  Speaker 3: to be much kinder to people. We have to give
• 2:49:52
  Speaker 3: them two things, agency and empathy together. The kindest thing
• 2:49:58
  Speaker 3: you can say to someone is, I believe you can
• 2:49:59
  Speaker 3: handle this. But also to have empathy that they're going
• 2:50:03
  Speaker 3: through something. Hear, hear.
• 2:50:06
  Speaker 1: It's a great way to wrap this up. Jimmy Carr,
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 1: you're the fucking man.
• 2:50:09
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much. Thanks for everything, man.
• 2:50:10
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you very much, sir. It's always good to
• 2:50:12
  Speaker 1: talk to you.
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great.
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of fun last night, too.
• 2:50:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, I mean.
• 2:50:16
  Speaker 1: It was great. Good times. What a great episode of
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 1: Kill Tony, too. All right, that's it.
• 2:50:19
  Speaker 4: Goodbye, everybody.
• 2:50:20
  Speaker 3: Thanks.