Latest / The Operator’s Seat Podcast / Stop Solving Your Teams Problems | The Operators Seat E8

Transcript

Stop Solving Your Teams Problems | The Operators Seat E8 · The Operator’s Seat Podcast

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the operator's seat.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: I am your host, Landon.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm your host, Sabrina.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're on episode eight.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Episode eight.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's crazy.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: What a dirty.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, so many good conversations, so many good questions.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um excited to answer everyone that comes in and um more episodes to come.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We still don't have a story.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I want a story.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that will help.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love your questions, but I really want a story.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: A story would be fun.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to like weigh in on.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely send us a story if you have one.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: We will keep it anonymous.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't have to say your name.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just we won't even try to guess who you are.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, but speaking of uh questions, I think we had a pretty good one come in that we want to talk about today.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you watch us regularly, you'll see that we have a piece of paper with the question now.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: That way we both can look at it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look at how organized we are.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting better day by this episode by episode.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be professionals soon.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, who knows?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: We might get a contract or something.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sponsorships.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone want a sponsor?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know somebody's come our way.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Our first sponsor.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to have you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the question that we received this week is how do you build true ownership and self-agency in your leadership team without the COO becoming the default escalation point or problem solver?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the line between providing clarity and support versus unintentionally training leaders to depend on you?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is a really good question, whoever submitted this.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh what a hard, hard thing to do sometimes.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, sometimes, especially as a leader, you you want to get it done.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so that creates the dependency from your team.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it also depends on how like your leadership style, because like for you, for instance, you're so helpful and so thoughtful.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, if you see your team struggling and then they ask you a question, like you're like, I'll just take it off their plate or I'll just help them do this.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And my, I think more so my problem is I am very quick.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that I don't want to be helpful, but helpful isn't necessarily like my prerogative all the time.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's to be fast and efficient.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Get stuff done.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I'm like, this is gonna take way longer to show you than it will just letting me do it or problem solving this for you, I'm just gonna do it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have time.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think you know, we all need to slow down and really analyze like, how am I structuring my team and how do they function without me?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then both like sides to that, like if I'm overly helpful, I'm not benefiting anybody.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm stressing myself out more.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not allowing the team to learn.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just taking it on to do myself.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, that's it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really true leadership when I do that?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I'm I'm not showing anybody how to better their skills or better learn something so that the next time that this problem comes up, they're not able to problem solve because they weren't shown how to do it in the first place.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or even, you know, taking it and doing yourself just to get it done.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're stressing yourself out with that and again, not showing the individual.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think both on the counterside of that, it's really important that you take the time um, but not overly take the time to do it, you know, allow the individual to learn and to really focus on the task at hand so they learn how to become a leader themselves and having uh, you know, that being a thought leader.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And next time that this issue comes around or an issue like it, they might problem solve and work it out all themselves.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're our own worst enemies.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I just recently discovered how like crazy.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't I always knew I was crazy.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I am just psychotic.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not you're not even denying it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like crazy.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I I'm only not denying it because I know I'm crazy there with you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm a lot to deal with.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like, so for instance, in our office, we're redoing like our coffee bar.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have this coffee bar, and like I was buying all these things, and I do enjoy.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a super basic example.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not necessarily like about a process, but I enjoy the design aspect of things.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I like to like make things look pretty and make things look nice.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: But is that really where my time should be spent?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I could let our client engagement team do that because they're the ones that are seeing the clients.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're, you know, they're the ones that are having to use the coffee bar and like set it up for people.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I spent like a way too long re-sabulous, redesigning this coffee bar.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then the little drawer things, I created like a uh freaking drawer Tetris for snacks.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you pull it out and then all the snacks are there and they're like organized, all pretty.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Mind you, this was after hours, so I waited until after five, but it took me like I think a total of like four hours to do that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of manpower.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: For one, for one drawer.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: For one drawer, I have OCD.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're very particular in what you like, but I will say, you know, the lobby looks amazing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thanks.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: The drawer, the drawer looks great.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very, you know, uh I will say, even though you're very particular, there's a rhyme and reason for it all.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, like you said, I think certain things that hey you want to take care of because you have the vision, and I totally get that.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, um, also allowing the client engagement team, you know, yeah to execute on that vision and everything.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's definitely a struggle because um as you know, as an eight, or I think just in general as a leader, sometimes you're like, nobody's gonna do it as good as I can do it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we probably all struggle with that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no matter what industry you're in.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's just something that you know when you want it done by, how you want it done.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so some things like that, you're just like, oh, I gotta take it on.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really hard to um delegate those tasks because you know that it needs to get done and you want to do it the way that you see best fit.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is so relatable, like across industries.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk to Brandon about that.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Brandon's my husband, he owns a business.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he is very black and white, he likes things done a certain way, he knows what he wants, he wants things done correct.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: He's an Enneagram one, so he's like a perfectionist.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so hard for him to delegate.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I get like, I try to give him advice, but you know, it's I'm his wife.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So like he definitely respects me and listens to my advice, but it's hard because, you know, I see all these things that he's kind of making his life harder and he's stunting the growth of his team because he's not putting them in a position to learn more sometimes.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he's gotten much better at it with, you know, some coaching, but it's still such a hard thing, especially if you're one of the founders or an owner or someone that's built maybe a team or a department from the ground up, it's hard to let go of it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But nobody's going to be exactly like you.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think, you know, also setting the expectations of getting it done 80% of the way that I want it done is okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know I have to learn that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: I well, and and I think anybody has to learn that.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, on my side, knowing that how particular certain individuals are, not, you know, uh realizing how to convey to them and communicate to them that, hey, I'm delegating this to this person.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Something I've struggled with in the past is knowing how particular somebody can be, and then not being able to delegate necessarily everything because I didn't want to upset or let down the, you know, certain people.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I found that that's where I struggled.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's also like for whoever that was leading you, like a coaching moment for them too of like, hey, yeah, it may not have been done exactly the way that you envisioned in your mind, but this was good.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did a great job at this, you know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's both sides.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 100%.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: You have to meet each other halfway.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it again, like you said, we're not nobody's us.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, we don't live in each other's brains.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not able to uh get it a hundred percent of the way, but I am gonna try my dang hardest to get there 90% of the way, 80% of the way.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we just have to learn to accept that out, you know, one another and and delegate that and know that it's gonna be okay.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as it gets done, then things are gonna be okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, it's just it's providing as a leader who is trying to delegate, it's providing the clarity first to produce the results that you want.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody is unclear of your expectations, they're not going to have any confidence to go out and execute that task or that process or whatever it is that you're asking them to do.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And by clarity, I mean like every single thing.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Paint, remember, paint me a picture.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does this look like to you?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And how can you relay that to your team so they can go out and execute on it?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, like one example of this that I think is really great is, you know, whoever you're delegating to needs the ability to like manage up.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Learn, you know, learn to anticipate what you are looking for, like learn your expectations.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to communicate them, but their responsibility is to also meet you in the middle and like, you know, learn your style and learn what you like.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And Madison in our office, who's our director of marketing, and I mean, you've done a great job too of like, she's, you know, y'all will give me something and I'll be like, and you're like, yeah, I this isn't the final.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're not gonna like this.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just look at the, you know, look at the big points that I'm trying to relate to you because that's what I want you to look at right now.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's always like your ability to kind of manage up and be like, hey, Sabrina's not gonna like this, or you know, Madison is like, I know I'm starting to catch on to Sabrina's style.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what she wants.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's important too.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, learning and that's that's what it's all about at the end of the day.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're learning to delegate, learning someone's style, learning a new task, yeah, you know, uh, allowing your leader to show you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the key portion of it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, uh, like you said, delegating up.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I learn that all the time.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes I live very much in the details.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so learning to, as you said, convey this isn't the final thing, this, you know, we're we're gonna get there, but this is what we're doing now, and then these are the steps in the future.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so just just having, you know, the ownership of that as well and knowing what details to give now versus what details to give later, and yeah uh learning experience for all of that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if if you're struggling with that, um, I would challenge to have that open conversation and you know the um the feedback of, you know, hey, this is this is what's working, this is what's not, what do you need from one another?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whether that's your direct leader, whether that's your cohort, whether that's you know, somebody under you uh having that feedback, whether positive or negative.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I I I personally be in a two, I'm always, you know, throw a little positive in there and I I don't like the sandwich.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, don't get me.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, the sandwich.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: The positive, what do they call that?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The um the uh feedback sandwich or something.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something like that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's it but I also I always think that you know you really want to know what you're doing well.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think always starting with that, yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Ending with that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't like to sandwich something bad in the middle.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know it's coming.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like people know when it's overuse.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not genuine.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you use the sandwich, we're sorry.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's just our opinion on it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: If it works for you, great.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't work for us.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it usually doesn't work.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you think it's working, it probably isn't.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we're getting a little more unfiltered the longer we do these.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, it, you know, giving giving both sides of that feedback is hey, you know, here's what you're working on, here's what you need to, or excuse me, here's what you're doing really well.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Here's where you need to improve, and here's the vision that I see for improving.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you may assess yourself that way.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, here's what I think I'm doing really well, here's where I need to improve, and here's the steps I'm gonna take to get there.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you're if you're wondering if you're doing well and maybe you haven't received feedback, uh do your self-assessment and then go to whoever gives you feedback or whoever you're, you know, led by and say, Hey, how am I doing on this project?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or what am I doing well here?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: What can I improve on here?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just rely on the leader to come to you.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's some coaching that you could, you know, help your leader with.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I'm not getting feedback from you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love if you would give me feedback.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to me.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who has ever done that, well I'm trying to think if anyone's done that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that they they didn't because they suck, it's just that uh I usually give feedback.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so we'll we won't go down this rabbit hole.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: We'll save the story for another podcast episode, but uh I struggle to give you feedback sometimes because we work so closely together and I know how hard you're trying and how much work and how much passion and you just really put your all into things, and so and I know your Enneagram number too.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it to me it's like it makes it harder for me to give him feedback, and I know you wouldn't think that of an eight, but I think that's pretty common.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like it, you know, I don't want to like make a negative impact on what you're doing, you know.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want you to like get in your head about it, and so then I'm like, how do I say this in a way that's gonna be nice?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do I say this without being too unfiltered?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just tend to overanalyze my directness and then I struggle to give real feedback.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I I I think, you know, especially for the position I'm in um with the two, you know, besides being friends outside of work, that yeah, doesn't help either.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think don't be friends outside of work.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: We love it, but yes, it makes it complicated sometimes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: It does, it it does.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, you know, I think I I crave that.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So something I've always said as a leader is you don't know what you don't know.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so um if I don't know that um I'm not, you know, doing things up to expectations, or you know, there's certain things the way I'm handling that you and I haven't discussed, then I I don't know.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, sometimes that assessment is I know what's going on in my brain, but you don't.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I can expect you to know what's going on in my brain.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to be sure that I am going through every step of my thought process of especially understanding, you know, how an eight lives in the future.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you're you're probably 10 steps ahead of me where I'm like in the now, and that's what I'm concentrated on.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so being able to have that communication and you know, um, asking for that feedback is definitely something that we probably have to work on harder than most uh professional relationships because we have to be conscious of the worry of you know, upsetting one another out outside of the professional and everything.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I it does take that extra step of asking for that feedback and doing a self-assessment of like, okay, here's where I think I'm doing well.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Would you agree?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we need to do a better job of that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have to do a whole episode on kind of our dynamic and how we handle feedback because I feel like we had a good learning experience with it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: We had a very good open conversation.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, where I we weren't aware of, you know, what was going on with one another.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think after we had the conversation, everything kind of made sense to one another.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like the honeymoon phase of working together, you know, like you're my new husband here, and then like it's so fun and it's exciting, and I get to hang out with you all day.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, okay, but I have this feedback to give him, but he's doing such a great job.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to like ruin his mojo, like that kind of thing.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so we'll have to tell you, we'll even maybe like give you details if if we're comfortable with it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, um, it was it was a good conversation.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, even us as leaders have to work on it all the time.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think communication isn't as easy as people make it seem.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, oh, you just need to communicate, but there's way more.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: How you communicate the, you know, what what to say versus what not to say.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't know if you do you deal with this, but you know, I'm like, okay, am I overanalyzing this or underanalyzing it?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Am I not, you know, um what I think is right?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Does Sabrina would Sabrina agree with that's something I struggle with all the time?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, am I uh or you know, with you know, to make sure that you know the founders, you know, is this a decision they would make it in whatever industry you're in, with your CEO, COO, you know, constantly having to think, okay, am I in their brain properly?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I thinking in a way that they would?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially in a smaller business like this, because you know the founders, it's their baby.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you want to make sure that you're taking care of it, yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And just the same way that they would.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I think, you know, analyzing that and making sure that uh you're living up to one, your personal standards, and then you're kind of trying to live, you know, think how your owners and how your leaders would think and living up to their standards.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard balance.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when it comes to, I guess, more leader um problem solving for maybe a team member underneath them.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one of the questions that I always try to ask myself as I'm doing that is, you know, say somebody comes to me for help.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've I've always been pretty good at delegation.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I haven't struggled too much with that unless it's like something that I really, really truly like my OCD just takes a hold of me and I can't do it, but which is all stupid stuff, by the way.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like not even important.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but am I building someone's capabil capability or am I replacing their capability?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So think about that question the next time you have somebody that comes to you.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I going, am I building their capability by answering their question in this way?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this the way that I'm about to answer it basically replacing their capability?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, am I about to actually do what they should be doing?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then just reframing the expectation of, hey, you can always come to me for guidance, but I'm never gonna give you the direct answer.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I need you to kind of work on building those skills.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a whole problem solving like framework that we use sometimes in the office.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now, something that just comes to mind is, you know, what if you need the direct answers to that?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: What is your thoughts on like doing the groundwork for some of it?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you always allow individuals to come back and report to you what they find?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it depends on the situation.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's like the 1080-10 rule, which we've talked about, like I'll give you 10% on the back or on the front end, you go do, you know, the 80% because that's what you're best at.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then, you know, you come back to me for guidance for the the extra, you know, the last 10% to wrap it up.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So using things like that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would have to have a specific example.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because like do you have one that you can think of off the top of your head?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I guess just like with uh so recently was working on reporting and so you know, needing some data from the reporting that necessarily wasn't the um actual task of it, but you know, I was trying to get the data from the reporting and then I was delegating out once I got the data for it to be changed to the CRM so got it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess that's where You like laid the foundation.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes I I struggle with okay, am I doing too much and not delegating, or am I doing what I need to do for my portion of the project and then delegating the rest of it?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you did a great, a good job.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think I would change anything.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's something, you know, and delegation is so funny.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's I I feel like everybody has a different view of it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've uh always been told I'm not too good at it, which you know.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Whoever, you know, whoever believes that, but yeah.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I I think you're struggling with it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think you struggle with it, but I think that the intention behind the struggle is not because you don't want to delegate.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's that you want to help your team and you care about them and you want, you know, the execution to go well.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's more so how can I be the project manager on this without actually doing all the work?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, it's it's definitely a a line that I think wavers for everybody of where to draw it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: And something I guess we all have to continue to work on.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes I I can kind of not give as much information as I should in some scenarios.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then there that leads to confusion too.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like someone will ask me a question and I'll be like, yeah, that's in this file, you know, in Microsoft or whatever.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, okay, well, uh, I could have taken a few extra moments to, you know, show them and laid the foundation.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or I am a big believer in making process guides, like really clear step-by-step guides, like very clear.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm nowhere.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like very clear where you could not miss, like you cannot be confused by the amount of information that I create in a document.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like super cumbersome to have to go through the document.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But in my mind, I'm like, well, all you have to do is read it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: All you have to do is follow it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: But not everybody obtains information by reading.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just can't.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can't double.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: I he does this to me all day long.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is what we need to do.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, not everybody, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, they should.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's called reading.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have been famous in the office for saying it's called reading.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: At least they make a joke out of it, so it's not like I'm a dictator.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a joke.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: You said that's scared.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, no, not at all.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: If I blink twice, help me.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm gonna stare at him hardcore.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's it's that your your guides are very helpful.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I I think, you know.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, your guides are helpful.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, they are very helpful and they're a good tool to go back.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's my 10% contribution.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's it's a big 10% for sure.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, I think and I think you bring up a good point as you know, sometimes the guides and the reading is overwhelming for some people.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, and learning everyone's style of learning and style of development and growth.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's another, that's probably a whole episode we could do is you know, learning that of your team.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because not everybody learns from reading, not everybody learns from showing.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Some people that's true have to go and do it themselves and ask the questions.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, that that's a struggle I have is I want to just show everybody and not everybody wants to be shown or me to be all up in their face and have a meeting about it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah, that sounds like my worst nightmare.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, learning learning each other's um developmental and uh capacity of you know how they learn best, I think is but they have to meet you halfway for sure.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, we're we're all individuals and you know, sometimes we lead different than you know, what they learn best from.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, as long as you're working hard and using tools like the Enneagram um to, you know, not necessarily um to build up their capacity.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of, you know, just doing it for them.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's very important.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, learning everyone's style.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, I could I could do a better job at communicating.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing that I think a lot of operations leaders struggle with is, especially in a smaller business, is being the go-to person.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was the go-to person for a very long time.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to kind of wrestle with the thought of okay, what is my value here if I'm not the go-to person?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I don't know everything and I'm not solving every problem, then what am I doing?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or what what am I contributing?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what you have to realize as you grow as a leader is your job is not to solve problems.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your job is to develop leaders and processes that then can solve problems.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to reframe your way of thinking about your role too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're not there to solve problems, individual problems.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're there to solve the problem of not having leaders that people can go to for the problem.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're there to solve, you know, the processes that can support those, you know, functions and kind of eliminate as many problems as possible.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're always gonna have problems, but you know, just creating independent team members is is part of your role now as a leader.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: What a great role too.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's fun.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's my it's one of my I don't know, it just it it gives me purpose and I I just absolutely love it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I love operations and the processes and you know, s helping others solve that and um coming up with the ideas and you know, yeah, not that I'm the best at it because I need to learn and grow every day, but yeah, it's it's just fun to watch the team like when they start thinking and the thought leader process and they start, hey, this is an issue I'm having, and this is what I've come up with it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you're and it there's just something that's so fulfilling about it.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cause you see them from you know, maybe when they came in and the foundation, and then you see them grow as a leader over time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just so rewarding to see because a lot of times they don't notice it in themselves.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a good reminder too to give kudos to your team.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you notice things about them, I think lifting people up is super important for culture, but it's also good for confidence, right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you notice little things about people and you point them out, good things and you point them out, you're giving them confidence in more ways than one.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that can that can help too.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: It it it changes their growth and development trajectory.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I try to always remember and think, you know, one word, one conversation can change somebody's complete life.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, sometimes it can be, you know, they believe in themselves and then they go on to do this great thing.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so it's it's it's just so rewarding and it's so cool to think about.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, on that note, I think we should end on a positive.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wrap it up.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: A great question.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for submitting it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and please keep them flowing.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: The more questions you submit, the uh more episodes that we can record.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Keep us going.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: We want that story.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So give us we we got a little more unfiltered today.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I know we'll uh continue to get more comfortable, a little more unfiltered, organized, if you will, too.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you know?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, so give us that story.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget to subscribe.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: We always forget to say this.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribe, please, and maybe comment on wherever you're seeing this, either, you know, Spotify or YouTube or wherever you're listening or watching.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like and follow all our social media.
• 31:03
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• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely look us up.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for listening.