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Compassionate Belonging: Meaningful Connection with Jeanette Langston · Conspirators for the Nonprofit Revolution

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Conspirators for the Nonprofit Revolution.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here today with Jeanette Langston.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jeanette.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for being here.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to have this conversation with you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to start off by introducing Jeanette.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Jeanette Langston is a creative connector and social entrepreneur.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Through her work, she holds space where everyone can fully be themselves, which means belonging without performance and across differences.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: After three years of research and development, she founded and led Social Tinkering, a human connection project.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a nonprofit based in Vermont that ceased operations in 2025.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: More recently, Jeanette established Social Root Studio.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a low-profit, mission-driven social enterprise that works with organizations and communities to identify and reduce systemic, cultural, and relational disconnections, driving long-term social isolation and loneliness.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Jeanette holds a diploma in social innovation from the UN-mandated University for Peace, which sounds really amazing, and has decades of lived experience with complex isolation and loneliness and the work of healing through it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Jeanette also serves as an ambassador for the Global Social Connection Collective and does a lot of really other really cool things too.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And Jeanette and I met a few months ago through a mutual friend, and we've been having calls that we call nonprofit BS Busters, although we write up the BS, um, just you know, to have our a little name for our calls.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we just talk about stuff.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we're making it official today.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: So to start, Jeanette, um, I just want to talk about your work and um you talk about compassion of belonging and how you ground your work in that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, tell me what that means to you.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a lot of people talk about belonging, right?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And belonging is one of our, I think it is our most deepest human need.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We think about needing food, water, shelter, but we also need to feel seen and valued and cared for, um, seen, heard, valued, and cared for.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I like to partner compassionate belonging or compassion with belonging because a lot of the times we weaponize belonging as human beings, um, whether it's intentionally or unintentionally, um, we use it for, you know, in abusive relationships, for controlling people, for um wealth gain, all these things.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see, you could see it through the politics that we're living through right now.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, but also in our everyday relationships.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um when we're not feeling good in a situation, we can use that um to help us defend ourselves.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like the idea of comparing compassion with belonging because compassion is that action on the care, and then belonging is feeling seen, heard, and valued.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when you put those two together, you're always making belonging about something that is positive in a relationship and healthy in a relationship.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um we, you know, we see the weaponization of belonging through cults and and terrorist activities and all sorts of things like that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um I don't want to say just belonging is the solution.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's compassionate longing.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love how you put those two together.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And my work in my when I did my dissertation was about solidarity, which is different from belonging but similar.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: But also I find like that can be weaponized too, and it can be used to like pull people apart and create spaces where people don't belong.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And also create places where people belong.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the pairing of compassion with that.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing I think about too is that um when we come to think about things like our loneliness and connection, like there can sometimes be a lot of like shame or stigma around that, like, you know, being honest about that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the compassionate approach, um, you know, just making that visible and and naming that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's just it's very important.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe that is the ultimate goal of is to build microcultures of compassionate belonging.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that way, as we do that ourselves within our own sphere of influence, if each of us are doing that as much as we can, that fosters outwards and eventually those spheres become macro and that can actually shift an entire culture.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I work a lot on connection and not the typical, hey, go socialize.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I work on connection as far as I call it meaningful connection.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think of it as a practice.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people um will talk about connection in the way that that's the goal that you're aiming for is to go connect with other people.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think connection is more of a practice that we have to be really thoughtful and intentional about.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then that practice leads to creating those cultures of compassionate belonging.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what you mean by um what do you mean by um oh my gosh, what was the word that you just used?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having a menopause.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I never have this.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was um um wait, wait, what was the word before connection?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Meaningful connection.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Meaningful, yes, meaningful.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um tell me what that means because a lot of times when people talk about connection, it's almost like in an instrumental way, or it's like about sort of using people.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um tell me what you what meaningful means to you.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yes, there's a lot to unpack there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's so social connection, there's also social capital, which originally, you know, the the real definition of social capital is actually a really good thing, like finding those value values in the social networks that you build and and supporting each other through that.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think social capital has become something that's more toxic, more transactional and extractive.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, even I'll go out and be interacting in the community, and someone will be like, oh yeah, I I connected with you because you seem like a big influencer in the community.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, I don't want I don't want relationships just because you think I can influence your idea or project.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's not why I connect with people.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I want things, healthy relationships where that are generative and like cup-filling and and reciprocal.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So so meaningful connection practice, we're thinking about things like moving at the speed of trust, like not rushing the relationship to a place that it just needs that time to build to, and also taking the time and space if something isn't feeling right, to slow down and ask questions and be curious.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's also um allowing for mistakes to be things that truly help us learn and grow, and then we adapt that into the next iteration as we move forward in our connection with other people and our relationships with other people.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, so that mistakes are for learning, they're not for shaming, which we tend to do a lot in our society, even people that talk about, oh, mistakes are for learning.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does that actually mean?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, but we want to truly allow that compassion for people to be human, knowing that nobody is perfect and that imperfection is actually the human trait, not perfection.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, meaningful connection, that's another, you know, there's several things that go into practicing meaningful connection, but um moving at the speed of trust, allowing for mistakes so we can actually learn and grow from them, not shaming each other when we make them.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are two important things.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a whole list that I could talk about.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for differentiating um social capital from connection, because I do think there is some overlap.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I do think they're kind of used in some spaces like interchangeably.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing with a lot of social capital work that I find problematic is it feels very classist.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like there's a this assumption that people without financial resources don't have social capital when they do have forms of social capital that people other people who have resources may not recognize or value.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that bothers me.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think there, yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot that's I actually think like elitism and classism are probably some of the biggest barriers to connection, to building connection for yourself in in a community, a society.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, that that access to being able to connect with others.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: That that's actually something that really prompted me to start my work in the first place, is because I had been invited to join this um Southern Utah Feminist Book Club.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was really, really cool as a bunch of um women that were coming out of the Mormon church and wanted to explore reading and thinking about different things together.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't part of the church and I was not from Utah.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was this weirdo in the group, but it was such a fantastic, wonderful community where we showed up every single month together and we did talk about the book a little bit, but really we what we did is get to know each other and build that trust, and it was consistent, which helps so much.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then just we got to know each other, and so we were there to celebrate each other, to to help each other through the hard things.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as I experienced this as part of the group, I realized we're really helping each other thrive.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So no matter what the challenges were or the celebrations were or the everyday life, we were helping each other thrive in that because we knew each other well enough to support each other in the way we really needed to be supported.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not always doing stuff for each other, but really just like so much of connection is just like listening and being there for each other to reflect and things, helping each other feel seen and valued.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So through that experience, I realized I want everyone to be able to have access to this kind of community.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And people should have access to that without having to have money to be able to pay to go somewhere to be able to meet people or to be a member of something or to pay for a meal.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like going out to dinner costs$40,$50 now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So people can't afford to go out to dinner just to meet more new friends or something.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and even still, you're not going to turn to the table next to you and you know, start talking to strangers because people would think you're a weirdo.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, you know, money is a huge barrier to connection and and who you know in that network and and stuff, you know, that it really becomes a huge barrier.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, so I really wanted to ask the question how can we intentionally grow meaningful connection for an entire community where everyone has access to building real, genuine, authentic community for themselves and they can feel seen and valued.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was really the impetus of my work a long time ago.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to talk about the nonprofit that you started social tinkering.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I know that was really it um there's so much there.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about that and um just tell me how you got started, your thinking behind it, and what that organization did.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the story I was just telling about the book club and the the concept of you know, the question of how can we intentionally grow meaningful connection for an entire community, that is really what founded social tinkering.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we started in 2021.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it did not start because of COVID, which a lot of people thought, oh, you started because of COVID.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we all need connection.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, no, no, I started this before COVID.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just and before COVID, when I was talking about it, and I'd say connection, social connection, human connection, people are like, What?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, connection, connecting with each other, being in relationship.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't understand what I was talking about.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then um, COVID happened and we were all isolated from each other.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So people find, you know, people were like, Oh, yes, isolation is so bad and yes, it's so terrible for us.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: We need connection.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, but it goes so far beyond just like being in a physical space with each other.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's so much more about how we're in relationship with each other.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we started the Donprofit in 2021.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our first funding was through the CDC health equity funding that came out to several states across the nation in the US.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so we were able to do a lot of subgranting work, kind of systemic work in that way, getting money down to the ground for grassroots projects that were led by people most impacted, um or most likely to be impacted by isolation and loneliness and disconnection.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some really amazing projects were accomplished through that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: We also ran monthly socials, um, discussion groups, we hosted film events and had panels, um, did some speaking engagements and workshops um and tried to bring people together to collaborate around the subjects of connection, isolation, and loneliness in our community.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a lot of nonprofits, most nonprofits, are actually working on an issue that is an impact from disconnection and even isolation and loneliness.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we can get under that impact of say uh recovery center, um the opposite, you know, a lot of folks working in recovery say the opposite of addiction is connection.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if instead of responding to the recovery, why can we get under that to the isolation and loneliness that people might be experiencing that might have led to that in the first place or might be perpetuating that addiction um or harmful substance use?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then also like I lost my train of thought.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if we can get under under that, behind that, what are the disconnections?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know what I was gonna say.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have the the experience of isolation and loneliness that might be leading to harmful substance use, but we also have society's disconnections in our structures, our systems, our cultures, like discrimination, all the different inequities, all these things that are happening that are disconnections that are then leading to this experience of isolation and loneliness potentially.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So all those things are kind of underlying why someone's turning to harmful substance uses in the first place.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so if if you uh can focus on that a little bit in addition, if you can focus on that in addition to the traditional recovery work, then and then work on connection building as you do the recovery and as people reincorporate into the community, then you can really um, I think, make that recovery more sustainable long term because they have a meaningfully connected network.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, so the idea in our community collaboration building was to help nonprofits working on the impacts to get under that a little bit and work on that, simultaneously kind of work on that disconnection and the isolation loneliness.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we did some of that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: That led actually to a huge project where we did a landscape analysis of social connection, isolation, and loneliness for the entire Rutland County.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we couldn't find another report or scale done, another project done on this scale.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of had to, it took us a while to figure out how to do it.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically we looked at what are the things that are happening.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are I'm so sorry.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: The afternoon is not happening on all cylinders like it does in the morning.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we did, okay, so we so we wrote this landscape analysis of social connection, isolation, loneliness in Rowling County.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Then we also created a social connection survey, um, which we sent it out to the entire county as well, which is a huge deal.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't find anybody that's done it on that level before.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had a county or like in a bigger area in the county level.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've we've heard of I've seen a lot of surveys done for specific projects or programs with specific populations, but I have yet to find anything that is measuring the isolation loneliness by asking the residents for an entire county.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I um we did that survey.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: We got a bunch of data from that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: We published the landscape analysis and put that out there, and then we dissolved.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so that is kind of the the journey of the five years of the work that we did.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm guessing the next question you're gonna ask is why did we dissolve?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have I have so many questions for you, but yeah, I'm really interested in that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm interested too, like in how why you got started.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm often like I've been doing nonprofit work for almost 30 years, and I've been a consultant for 25 now.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm often approached by people who want to start a nonprofit.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, and this isn't you, but a lot of times I I, you know, people want to start an organization and it's not always for the right reasons.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, like, what led you to start an organization versus just like partnering with your existing infrastructure, or wasn't that you know available?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was trying to avoid starting a nonprofit actually.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I thought I tried to do fiscal sponsorship with some organizations, but they I found there was a lot of education that was needed to increase understanding and awareness of connection and isolation and loneliness.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so people weren't really talking about it back then.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was such a new topic.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's still a new topic.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the organizations I worked out, what reached out to who I thought were doing great, amazing social connection work, were like, I don't think that aligns with our missions.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, are you sure?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, so I kind of came down to okay, I don't think I think there's too much education awareness that still needs to be done.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: People don't quite know the other aspect too is that I'm not a fourth generation Vermonter.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was a new person in town.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So people are like, Who are you?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who's on your board?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you talk about like disconnection, not letting you do connection work.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that's okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It takes time to grow old friends.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um that trust is important.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so then I thought, well, can I do this on my own, like as a consultant somehow?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at the time it was less consultation work, it was more even trying to open a physical community living room type of space where people can gather.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, no, I don't think it's consultation work really.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when I came down to it, I was I was like, well, I think I really need to like find a group of people to do this with.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, you can't heal and reduce loneliness alone.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: You really can't.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You need you can't fix loneliness alone.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you need people.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's finally I was like, okay.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And a friend of mine that I had met, she she has a lot of nonprofit experience and actually became one of our board members.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: She said, if you do this, you are going to not have control over your idea and your vision because the board will then be in charge.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're ready to do that, go ahead and make this decision.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: But so I thought about that a lot.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I thought and I wrote, um, and I thought, there's just no way around this.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be done in community, it can't be done with just me.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we went ahead and I found a few people that were willing to be on the board and we started this nonprofit.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time, for the shape it was, for what we were trying to do, it worked very well.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think sometimes we do just have to like put things out there and you know, let go of control of things and just see what happens because otherwise nothing will ever happen.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think probably some people would say I did try to control it, and which I did to a degree because what I learned is it's still Such, like I said, it's still there's still such a lack of understanding of like meaningful connection.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't get clear on what I was doing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really hard time articulating what I really wanted to accomplish with it, which then made it really confusing for other people who were potentially interested in getting involved and who did get involved.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my the boards that I did have, the folks that I did have on my board, um really trusted my judgment to, you know, kind of lead the different programming that we did and decide whether we would do the different subgranting and things like that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we tried things.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of, you know, we were trying something that's so new and innovative.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we were tinkering.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was called social tinkering, the human connection project, because we're tinkering with connection.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying literally trying to figure out how do you answer this question that we had when there's hardly any example out there of how to do it in the society that we are in today.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it worked for a little while.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So as I get older, I'm learning that some relationships aren't forever, some are just meant to be for a set period of time for a specific purpose.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So social tinkering came to an end.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me what happened there.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it just came to be that I realized as the director we were going through cycles.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: We would find another, we would find enough funding to hire another part-time person in addition to me.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't doing the work alone daily.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then like we could only never we could never pay them benefits, we could only pay them so much, and we could only do 20 hours a week.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not sustainable for anybody, especially in this economy.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um eventually the people that we hired all wanted to go pursue their own passions or find a full-time job and with benefits.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that wasn't really sustainable, um, but we never really had enough funding to make that position more.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was very, very hard to find funding for this because we weren't well, so so there's funding out there for social connection work if you're working with a specific age or demographic or a different or a specific impact of connection, like arts and things.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing more systemic work, like what we're trying to do, there's not the funding for that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And even the funding has there's barely any.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's really an important point that a lot of times what's available philanthropically is behind these emerging ideas, like there's not enough resources to build new things, it's only like fitting into these existing, yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And those funders want things to be measurable and they want you to know how to measure it and evaluate it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they want to show impact and they want to show, you know, they they say, here's funding, and we want it to do this, and they put these guidelines on it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, but that's not the work that we think, you know, somebody who lived, I came to this work with my own life experience from childhood on up.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I like I I know deep down inside what really is needed for people to feel seen and valued, and the people that I'm working with knew that too.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So to be said, here's a grant and don't go do this, then all you're doing is working to chase the grants, which is everything you're told not to do in nonprofit world.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so so there's a real again gap in understanding and awareness of potential funders because also like it takes time to build connection and belonging.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't just we had an event and it's done, and now people are connected and feel belonging.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, yeah, there's no trust in our society, there's a huge lack of belonging.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're literally in a loneliness epidemic, so this is not going to be fixed because I host a social once a month for a year.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not, it's just not.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like we need um funding for like tinkering and experimentation and play for unexpected possibilities.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to find we have the right inputs or like we have the right idea, like the right things that we're bringing together in different or new ways.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like there should be funding for to support, you know, sort of like innovation, but not necessarily described as rigidly as it sometimes is in those funding opportunities.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think there are some philanthropic opportunities out there like that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did have some wonderful people supporting our work.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had a really amazing donor who really felt strongly about our work and was so incredibly supportive.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had, you know, from our community foundation in Vermont and from our local hospital foundation, we had some good support.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it wasn't it wasn't support that could be sustained and consistent.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't figure out how to, I couldn't get to a like a sustainable financial model because the thing that would have helped us stay sustainable is to get a physical location where we could then apply a membership model to what we're doing and then rent the space and hold events and things where we would have ticket revenue, we would have rental and revenue, membership revenue, and all these things.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that would not only support the space, but allow us to do everything we wanted to do anytime we wanted in the space.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas without a space, we're constantly begging people to use their spaces.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you in your community, but there's just not a lot of spaces to gather in just for the sake of connection that are set up well for connection.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, if they are, you know, but not being set up well is the key.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, it has to be set up for that purpose, otherwise it's weird and doesn't feel right at all and doesn't work.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is people want to make money off their spaces, rightly so.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't pay$200 an hour, I can't pay even$50 an hour for a space when we're a nonprofit that you know can barely get funding.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it really came down to capacity and funding.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And could I have been, could I have continued and pushed through and made another year work?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I probably could have.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm pretty creative and and um, you know, I'm a good tinkering and resourceful making things happen.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I did it for five years, but but really it was wearing on me mentally.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't really, I was spending so much time chasing funding, explaining what I'm doing, trying to convince people of its worth, and administering the nonprofit structure that I wasn't barely spending any time doing the work.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was just exhausted at the end of the day and frustrated.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, and my team was amazing, but they had no more capacity to help more than they already were because they're social workers and teachers and mental health experts and recovery coaches, and they're already volunteering three different ways in their community on top of their 40 hours a week.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it just came down to we just did not have the capacity or the funding, and and I really thought it needs to be done in a different way.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I brought to the board last fall and said it just I just think this needs to be done in a different way, and this is not the structure for it.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we had no funding to hire someone else if I stepped away, which I said, I I support you if you want to hire somebody else if I step away.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Who else is gonna do this?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And where are we gonna get the money?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have capacity to raise the money, so so we decided to dissolve.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, a lot of people see me and say, Oh, I'm so sorry.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's not a like terrible thing to change.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, change can be very good.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it just allows your work to take new forms that can potentially be more sustainable.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so looking back on the time with this initiative, what would you say were the best part or what were the most important things that you learned?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things I learned is really how much the loneliness epidemic is affecting us all and how disconnected we all are.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we all can say, oh yeah, we're really disconnected.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but working in it, living and breathing it every single day, we really are not doing well.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're not doing well.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that allowed me to understand where the work needs to be.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be working here thinking people are here when people are really here.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So so I was I had to adjust where I did the work, so and how I did the work.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really helpful to learn.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um just so many things around when you're working on a nonprofit team, being really explicit about the implicit, so naming the elephant in the room, if you have values, okay, we can define a value and we can say, Yeah, we all think it's great, but if you don't talk about what does that value look like in action, like if this happens, XYZ happens, how are we going to respond to that?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as the board, how do they feel about it?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: How's how do I feel about that CED?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we do this?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't take the time, and I think most organizations don't really take the time to do this to really explore okay, we did our strategic planning, we have our values, but what do that what does that mean in daily life?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we support each other in applying those?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so that was a really huge lesson learned too, and actually something I've taken and incorporated into my work now.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and really so many things.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: But lastly, for this purpose is just the huge, huge difference that we can make in each other's lives just by being present, gifting each other with our time to just sit and be human together makes such a huge difference in people's lives for all of us.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's increases our understanding of other human beings and different experiences and worldviews.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's it really impacts our health.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people be, you know, helps people be more positive because you feel less alone.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, I've got this.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not alone in this.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you make different choices for your health when you're around other people and you feel more uplifted.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it just, you know, I knew that from my own life experience, but interacting with the community and having those experiences over and over again in our events and meetups and things was just people just so appreciated having that time to be themselves with other people and feel seen and valued.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there aren't enough spaces where we can like just fully be ourselves, like our true selves, because there's just so much um performance that happens.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times that's around like safety, like it can be emotional safety or it can be like just like expectations.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there aren't enough intentionally designed spaces for people to just be the human together.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's why I'm working on this now in a different way in that I help people kind of think about how can we intentionally create those spaces in whatever we're doing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, because the more we can do that, it's not they don't need just one organization to be hosting an event that does that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we need we need everybody to be creating those kind of cultures.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when you think back to this work, is there anything that you might have done differently if you could go back in time and wave a magic wand and change something?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, there were moments, I mean, there were moments where I wish I had slowed down more.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that was part of my own healing that I had to do.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And those those moments where I didn't, and then disruption happened, were the moments that taught me the most in the process.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and like I said, I have experienced various avenues of isolation, loneliness my whole life.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was carrying a lot of the trauma from that, um, what like what we call like relational trauma, which trauma is what happens when you're left alone when an event happens.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're alone, left alone afterwards to deal with it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So with relational trauma, that can happen when you're a baby on up.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a famous study with a mom that had to like not respond to her baby when the baby was crying.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see in the study the immediate response that the baby made to adjust to that, and it was so sad.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um relational, we all carry this.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like every time we have an interaction with someone and it doesn't feel good or it's harmful, it's disrespectful, whatever.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't have someone to process that with afterwards, or we don't know how to process it for ourselves afterwards and show up for ourselves, that can kind of build layer upon layer on us.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then we carry that through everything we do in our lives.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, I was carrying that from childhood on up, from family and then workplace stuff and things.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did a lot of healing work before I started social tinkering, before I started this work.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: But when you work on isolation and loneliness every single day of your life, you realize how much healing work you still need to do.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, so everything that we were doing, weekly stuff would come up for me.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to try to work through that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll always have stuff to work through, but I feel like doing that work for five years in community um really helped me do a lot of healing.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't, I wouldn't do things differently because all of the experiences that we had, we did so much good work in the community.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: We really impacted our community and our whole state.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even, you know, we had a piece that was featured on NPR at one point.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So even people from across the country were calling me and emailing me.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: So so I know we had a huge impact in the work that we did.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know we all learned a lot, whether we like it or not.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would not be where I am today if we hadn't been through all that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So how are you gonna take all those things that you learned from this work into what you're doing now with Social Root Studio?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we dissolved in January.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I launched a new L3C, established a new L3C, which is basically an LLC, just mission-oriented.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um what I'm doing now is I call myself a connection strategist and facilitator, because there's not really titles for this field yet.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm making it up.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what I do is I walk alongside nonprofits, businesses, community groups, and anybody that comes to any events I host for the community.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: I walk alongside folks to help them deepen their understanding of connection and help them learn how to apply a practice of meaningful connection into their work every day so that they can build microculture of compassionate belonging in their workplace, internally, in the services they provide externally, and then be present with that in the community too.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So with humans, with individuals, that looks like more inner connection work, head-to-heart stuff, talking about that kind of connection, um, and interpersonal connection practice, um, uh doing fun meetups and things that I haven't started yet, but hope to launch this fall.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and then otherwise I consult with folks and then I do a lot of education and training on what is connection and why should we care about it and how do we prioritize it and what do we do about it?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so I do a lot of education training too.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So really everything I learned, everything I learned, all the research and the the topic-specific learning, but also like so much of the relational learning.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we were trying to practice meaningful connection while we were doing this as the mission, and all the like on kerfuffles that happened in our practice that I learned a lot from, I'm still learning from today.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to carry all of that in and take it into the work in a way that sounds very human so that people can feel like not as shamed by the mistakes and the disconnections, but supported in being human and learning and growing from that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you were talking earlier about how a lot of the work that nonprofits are doing are addressing um things that are rooted in disconnection.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just wondering how, especially given what you're talking about with how like so much of nonprofit work isn't actually about the work, it's about all the other stuff.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the structure, the funding, the, you know, um, and I think that's not just a small startup nonprofit.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's every nonprofit.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like so much of our time is not doing the the work, the work work.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um given right, right.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: So given that constraint, like what are some ways that nonprofits could be more intentional about um or more aware, more intentional about um designing what they offer to better support some of those, some of that disconnection or to help heal some of that?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really big question.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it depends on what the nonprofit's mission is, of course.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: But generally, I think the biggest way that nonprofits can practice meaningful connection.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're thinking?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: How could they yeah, despite all the things they're juggling?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm actually I just I'm part of a rural nonprofit leader summit um this week that's going on, and I am speaking tomorrow on it.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's all pre-recorded, and I'll be doing a live QA on this with that group.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how do you I don't ever want to tell nonprofit leaders to do one more thing because that's just like I can't do any more things.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like most nonprofit leaders are doing 50 jobs in one and getting paid like half as much as they should, if at all.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um the practice of meaningful connection, it's not really one more thing because you're already doing relationship work, you're already interacting with everyone you serve, all of the partners, your team, your board.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're already interacting with everyone.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: So practicing meaningful connection doesn't add on to the work, it just changes your relationship work.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: It makes your relationship work more mindful and intentional, and it really slows it down in a way that ultimately will actually improve all the relationships that you have because you'll be making each other and the people you serve feel more seen, heard, and valued.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: So approaching things with curiosity, true curiosity of you know, seeking first to understand, then to be understood.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Saying is one of my favorite the mistakes part.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: when a partner might make a mistake or so-and-so, you know, does something you don't like?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't we might ask questions and not get the answers.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then we might, you know, it's we have to we have to slow down and have a conversation.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and even if we don't do that in that moment and a kerfuffle happens, because it will, how can we slow down afterwards and say, what the hell just happened together, not just one-sided or separately, but like what happened?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do we value this relationship?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: We want to work together, you know, slowing down.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're practicing meaningful connection practices as you do the relationship work, it's going to help make your life easier as a nonprofit leader because your relationships are therefore going to be grounded in compassion and belonging.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be stronger and more sustainable, built on trust, and it's going to be easier to do your work because you're going to have stronger partnerships and stronger relationships.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: But really, and the thing that I'm talking to nonprofit leaders at this summit is like for the leaders of the summit and your team, it's really important to do your internal work on that.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Doing that values work, sitting with your team members, taking the time, prioritizing and setting aside time for your team to get to know each other as human beings so that when things come up or as you're doing the work, you're going to do it better together because of that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's we have this false sense of urgency in this capitalist society that's not real at all.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's you know yes we have deadlines and all these things but we also if we can slow down and do the proactive work on our relationships and connect, take that time up front to get to know each other to build that trust, then down the road things will take less time.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so time is always something everybody thinks they don't have enough of um when really in reality we can choose what we spend our time on and decide what's most important in the long run.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um so for the the leaders really doing what I call that interconnection work, trusting learning how to you know practicing trusting yourself, knowing your self-worth, not using negative language, cheering yourself on because sometimes as leaders we feel lonely in that leadership position, very lonely.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to be able to do that for yourself and also find your peers because the people that you supervise or that are on the board aren't always your peers.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had to learn that lesson the hard way now I have peers in my field that I've worked really hard to network outside of my own community in my field.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so those folks I know I can call up and you know they understand what I'm going through.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: So as leaders we need that interconnection work just as much as we need the interpersonal that's a lot of talking sorry.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but there's so much there's so much good stuff there and I feel like we could just talk we could just like do um a podcast episode a day for a year and like get into everything because there's so much here.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know yeah I thought about starting my own podcast because of it.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta do it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I just want to highlight one aspect of that that I think is just really important just to underscore it that it's not another thing to do.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a different way of doing things that actually will in the long run just make things easier.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think you know we find the time in nonprofits to nurture um transactional connections.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of time is invested into that.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what if we just did things differently and I think there's so many applications of that within the work that we do in the sector.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I love sitting down having a cup of coffee with somebody even if it's virtually because just sitting down and being human together for an hour is really helps you see each other as human and that little bit of willingness to be a little bit vulnerable with each other if it feels safe enough to do so is really important because that's where you're going to build trust with folks.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah what's that makes life more fun and interesting.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah way more fun.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah way more fun for sure to like you know yeah and that's I think when you come up with the best kind of collaborations too because like you're thinking outside the box you're relaxed you know you see this person is human oh my god what could we do?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know yeah so many cool things um and I was also gonna say that if we can practice it's really important to practice meaningful connection yourself and not just tell other people to practice meaningful connection in the work.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't really do that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's hypocritical so you have to practice it yourself and and and you're gonna make some mistakes you're gonna not practice meaningful connection sometimes I I don't that I mess up.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know nobody's perfect.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody messes up yeah that's where the mistakes are that's when you slow down learn what the hell happened and figure out how to go forward.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um but if you can do that actually the services that you're providing in these really critical missions that people are running which is just amazing work those services are going to become more sustainable for people because people are people are going to be able to the people you serve you're gonna help reduce their isolation and loneliness too and build their connection to through that practice and then they're gonna come and they're gonna get that's gonna reduce the any barriers to access or certain barriers to access which disconnection isolation loneliness are huge barriers to getting services for people.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can reduce that as much as possible they get your services then they your services actually do what you're intending them to do and your impact is so much greater in the long run and more sustainable.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah and I wonder like though you know things are just so complex and have you know I feel like this work we do in the nonprofit sector the way we do it now is so different from how it started and it's evolved over time like in good ways and bad ways and um and you know again like this is a whole month of daily podcast episodes plus but um but I wonder like sometimes is it better just to start over or should we just keep like changing what we have or is it both what do you mean start over like organizationally or yeah like I feel like the way our organizations are set up like is it working?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: So is it better to modify the nonprofit structure or to just create something totally new?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah like do we just reimagine a whole sector and do things the right way from the beginning rather than just trying to modify what's not working.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have to do both.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too I think in we need the tinkerers we can't just get rid of what we have because we it's need everything's needed.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and there are people working on all sorts of different ways to do things from teal organization structures to um holocracy sociocracy like all these different kinds of structures um that I think a lot of nonprofits are missing out on those conversations because they're so entrenched in the work.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so taking the time to just set aside like an hour a week to read about like alternative business models that are like new and progressive and and structured in a way that really allows people to be human like just Google that you know spend an hour reading about it and you know find all sorts of different information out there.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: So which is what I was kind of trying to do with social tinkering but I think just the funding wasn't there and and people are people's capacity are just is so low right now especially after COVID um and everything going on.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in an ideal world with greater capacity and greater funding I think maybe some organizations are able to to do that to like consider these other alternatives and restructure how they're doing it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know one where the ED um I don't know what happened the the ed changed and they hired two exec like co-ed instead and this this co-director did this portion of the administrative work and this one did this portion of the work.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they divided the position into two positions instead of one which I thought was really wonderful because it is such a huge workload.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: And to carry that workload by yourself as one single leader is is really so so much weight that you're carrying that that is one of the things I didn't I really disliked the most is carrying the weight of the huge decisions that I was making while I'm working alone at my table every day and having to make those decisions that impact my board and reflect on them.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like speaking for people who aren't even available but once a month for an hour meeting like that's weird.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: That you know these top down organizations that and nonprofits are service.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're here for the service and people or human and and or the resources natural resources and stuff.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're not here for wealth building so I think it's time to do it differently restructure our teams restructure how we fund things and stuff but you know that's also going to take a whole we're at the mercy of funders nonprofits.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's happening you know on a s on a smaller scale like it's happening here and there.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were mentioning a a few examples and um you know it is happening it's just it's slow.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah but you know grateful for those who are like thinking imaginatively about how we could do this work differently.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And really collaboratively like I think in this scarcity this the sense of urgency this world that's just like keeping us all down you know we have this scarcity mindset there's and the sense of urgency and then we just go into our little corners and ignore each other or only talk to the people on our team and no one else even though there's four other you know organizations that are doing similar things in the same community.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: So keep your four different organizations awesome but like collaborate and say we're gonna do this part we're gonna do this part and this part and this part and then we'll all outreach together or market each other's events or you know there's so many things we can do collaboratively that don't really take that much time and actually just really lift the load off but if you don't take the time to go talk to each other and build those relationships you're never going to be able to collaborate in the way that you possibly could.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah so I have a final question for you this has been an amazing conversation I've learned so much and I hope everyone listening has as well I'm sure they have and um so my last question is why do you think of yourself or do you as a conspirator for the nonprofit revolution?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: I do think of myself as that even though I am no longer a nonprofit leader um I am so passionate about supporting nonprofits and the people that run them and their missions and their service it's just so so such good work but it has to change I just think this I've mentioned capitalism a few times but I think capitalism is so extractive and transactional.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about wealth generation first and foremost it's not about human beings so I just it's time for change and and unfortunately unfortunately nonprofits we go into these things thinking we're gonna do good and it's gonna be amazing and but then we're really just like it's almost worse than a profit business because you're at the mercy of very wealthy people and whether they want to give you money or not and then when they give that to you there's all these strings attached from their perspective they don't always listen most of the time don't listen to the people on the ground and what that is really needed or trust them with it.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're asked to do it for this like ridiculously low amount of money most and a lot of times people are like well you're a nonprofit you're supposed to do everything for free like that is not sustainable for anyone no one can do that.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are not independent the people that run nonprofits are not independently wealthy.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot work for free and we can't keep doing this work in the way that we have been so it has to change.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have to yeah so I am definitely a conspirator for the nonprofit revolution yeah it is interesting how like a business or capitalist model is encouraged to be applied to the nonprofit sector when it's so different.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're our own thing and like why can't we learn from each other?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and yeah because we can have a great business model for the nonprofit to be financially sustainable and we can be human centered first and foremost that then helps people thrive and the business thrive like both things can exist at the same time and both can learn from each other.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which that's the other thing I see is like such a such a separation of the business community and the nonprofit community.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like why are we doing this?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're all like that I don't know that's like the elitism comes in again right I think yeah I also feel like again like we could just keep talking forever but I feel like nonprofits we're in this unique position where we are kind of like the entities that bring people together from all different worlds.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like we bring together people from the business world we bring you know like all these different people so like that puts us in a really unique position to do a lot of this connection work if we're really intentional about how we go about doing that.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah so I want to do everything I can to support nonprofits in doing that so that they can benefit their mission, the people they serve and the whole community and the businesses that are supporting them like everybody's only going to benefit.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah yeah well this conversation has been amazing.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're gonna keep on with our BS busters calls which will be private and not recorded but this has been an amazing conversation for everyone who listens to Conspirators for the nonprofit revolution.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Jeanette thank you so much.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to learn more about Jeanette or connect with her you can check her out on the links below to her LinkedIn profile and her business website you can get all the information about Jeanette reach out connect ask questions learn more reach out to me as well my contact information is there too thank you so much for listening and for being here today and I will see you in the next episode.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you