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Transcript

NYPD Detective Mike Mulroy · NYPD Through The Looking Glass

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with retired NYPD first grade detective Mike Mulroy.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, please tell us a little something about yourself.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how are you doing, Vic?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on your podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I retired in 2010, a first grader out of the uh 4-7 squad.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I came on July 5th of uh 1989.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's when I started the Academy, and it's how where it all started from.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was born and raised in uh North Jersey, which I know a lot of guys don't want to hear, but you know, I moved I I moved to Riverdale when I was in the uh the academy.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: My father was a retired fireman, so you know, born and raised in the Bronx, so he knew the city, so he got me an apartment up in Riverdale.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, it went to the academy from there, and uh that's where I started my career.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: The academy wasn't my favorite, I always tell everyone.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: There was a big difference between the job and the academy.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: The academy was just like going back to high school.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly I hate it, you know.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the only funny story I ever tell is about the uh when I had to go see the psychiatrist, and um she was like, geez, three feet tall.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when when she came walking in, I was like, oh gosh, not me, please.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let And then she said my name.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she took me, you know, in the office, and first thing she said to me was, Mr.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mulroy, what do you think about tall people?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my God, this this lady's setting me up for uh, you know, for trouble.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she just started laughing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: She said, you know, this is the way I break the ice, and you know, it was it it all turned out good, I guess.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the academy and I got out in December of uh 89, and I was sent to the uh FTU 7 in the Bronx in the 4.8.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know you know the 4.8, huh, Vic?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: We worked, I what I find amazing is you and I both worked in NSU 7.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: We both had the iconic training sergeant, Jimmy Kelly.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: We both know the same people.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the you worked in the 4-7 later in your career, and we've never met until today.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you, that's why everyone always says, you know, there's 30,000 cops.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know so-and-so?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, but if I've seen his face, I've probably seen him somewhere.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, especially in the Bronx, but you know, other boroughs, it's kind of hard.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the Bronx, you know, especially if you're a collar guy, you're down in court, you're gonna see the same faces all the time.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you came on in '89, you like me stood out rookie cops with our silver guns.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was a tough pill to swallow.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: No hammer either.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: No hammer.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody in the precinct knew you were a rookie.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: The perps knew you were a rookie.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we still had taxes, you know, I still had that eight-nine tax number.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So and I still got made fun of.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, they're up to like nine something, you know, nine six, nine, seven.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're about to flip.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's funny?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Working in the Bronx, um, I hated borough-based training.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And every year, precinct cops, they'd usually send two from each precinct or three from each precinct, and you and your partner would go to the borough and you'd sit in a classroom in uniform all day long, and they'd have these inside guys from the borough spewing nonsense for eight hours.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: But what made it tolerable was just for me, every year I went to Borough-based training in the Bronx, there were always a couple of 4-4 guys, always sat in the back, and they were always taking pot shots at the instructors and goofing around and like pushing back on a lot of the nonsense.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it just always made Borough Base training tolerable, the 4-4 and the 4-6 guys.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll tell you, they're great commands, you know, busy guys, fun, uh, very close.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like I said, after uh, you know, FTU, I ended up going to the uh 4-4, which I loved.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Great guys.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I learned the job there.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Early on in your NYPD career in the 4-4, you got involved in a shooting that earned you the Medal of Valor.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Could you go into that a little bit?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, I was actually doing a uh a 4-12, and it was my partner Joe.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Joe's another Florida guy.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: He retired, but he ended up leaving me going to uh FD.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: He did the smart thing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: He went to FD and uh he retired.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: He lives down in Florida.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: We still keep in touch.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I actually talked to him yesterday.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we're at 170 drinking a cup of coffee.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, you know, almost the end of the tour.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're at famous munchtime having a cup of coffee.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we took a slow ride in, and Joe was the uh driver and I was the recorder.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And going up 170, we hit Edward L.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Grant, and right on the quarter, Edward L.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Grant and uh Jessup, a young uh Spanish kid grabbed us and went up to the car and said, Hey, there's a guy up the block and he's got a gun and he's shooting at people.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we were gonna put it over, but the Bronx is the Bronx, you know, you know, so you know, you just don't put things over till you till you know it's true.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we took a oh slow ride up Jessup looking for this guy.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sure enough, there's a guy walking up Jessup with a uh gun in his hand.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Big uh 357.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: We got out of our car, we like dropped a gun, and he turned around, he shot at us twice.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: One one hit the windshield and one hit the uh the front grille.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, wow, this is on.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't even think about putting it over.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're chasing him with the RP.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: He gets up to Sharif place, and uh we got out of our cars, we didn't see him.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, we're still young on the job, and my partner went one way, I went the other way.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what they say in the cabin never split up, and we split up.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh by Sharif, there was a car and by on the corner, and he was hiding behind it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was walking around, he jumped up and shot at me.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: About two rounds, and I was like, oh man, so I dove in front of the car.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew he was the back of me.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we're actually like jumping up, shooting at each other.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I let go about five rounds.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like back then we had the uh silver revolvers, and man, I knew I couldn't put a speed loader in there.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was shaking.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, man, I better do something or we better run out of bullets.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, when we jumped up, I saw him going up and I shot, and I see him fall back, and I looked under the car, I saw him laying on the ground, so I said, Man, I must have shot him.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's the first time I put over the radio 1013, and my partner came running back, and I ran around the car and I found him laying on the ground and I saw blood, and you know, you kind of black out, you know, because you get that tunnel vision.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the cops came, they you know, threw me in a car, took me to Columbia, and uh I was in the hospital getting oxygen, talking to people, and finally the uh duty captain came in and he's like, Hey kid, how you doing?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm good, I feel good, uh Cap.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's like, uh he did a good job.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, You're some shot.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what do you mean I'm some shot?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Well, you shot the gun out of his hand.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Yeah, you shot him in the back of the hand, through the butt of the gun, and uh you shot the gun out of his hand.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, holy gosh.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, everyone has asked me, Are you a good shot?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know, geez.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I go to range, I shoot like an 80.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just you know, one in a million shot.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but like I said, when I got back from the precinct, I got abused, you know, all over my locker, Wild Herb, John Wayne, you know, guys telling me, oh, now we're supposed to shoot guns out of people's hands.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so busting my balls, you know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it was all good and fun.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Were you on probation during that shooting?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh probably maybe yes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your mind is like, oh God.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna be on it, I'm gonna be on review.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm sure the veteran guys in the 4-4, because that there, they were a tough nut to crack.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: They probably looked at you a lot differently for a rookie cop to be involved in something like that and handle yourself the way you did.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I said, uh just there alone, I think we had like probably like eight, nine guys that were in shootings and had green bars and blue bars.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: There was, you know, especially the midnight guys, you know, they were constantly getting into shootings.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it seems like early in your career you couldn't catch a break because I think even before this, some schmuck tried to rob you off duty.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was in FTU on a blind date in Queens.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um I dropped the girl off or walked her to her door, and I was going back to my car.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the guy like said, Hey, you got a light.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I said, No, I don't smoke.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he tapped me again, but it was something hard at the back of my head.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I turned around, he had a gun to my uh my uh head.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, give me your wallet.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So gave him my wallet, and he's like looking at me, but he's going through it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't even have an off-duty yet.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I took off my revolver, silver revolver, pointed at him, and I was like, dropped the gun.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: First thing he said to me, Are you a cop?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, you tell him you're a cop, they'd be like, taken off.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I held him on the ground, and the girl actually saw me yelling and yelling at him, called 911.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Auxiliary par car came down first, saw me, and I showed him my gun.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And he just took off down the block.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden cops came, came flying.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't know who I was.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I remember they threw me up against the grates of a store, actually cut the top of my head.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And but, you know, they didn't know who I was.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we know we locked them up.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: You got like, you know, ten years for uh, you know, armed robbery.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So crazy.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're on probation and you got involved in these two things.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you were looking for them, but they just kind of fell into your lap.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was like a magnet in the beginning, you know, everything would happen to me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Guys won't even buy lottery tickets without like including me in them because they're like, oh, you always fall into something.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that gallows humor.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: The the 4-4 precinct was a busy place.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, probably the biz with respect to the 4-6, it was probably the busiest precinct in the Bronx.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the 4-4 had more than a few bad buildings that were known for drug sales and homicides.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna bounce a couple of addresses off you and see if any memories come to play.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: 1040 Walton.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was rough, man.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Rough.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going there in NSU a couple of times, and then later on when I was at task, always shots fired, always drugs, and narcotics was always there.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: They'd clean it up, and 15 minutes later.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: How about, I'll give you one.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: On what's it Grant Avenue behind the firehouse?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Bill's not even there anymore.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: What was it, 1144?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was between 167 and 169.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I can't think of the building, but it was right in back of the firehouse.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it used to be a line of people coming out of the uh lobby into the street to buy crack.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because we go up on Sherman Avenue with our binoculars, look down, and be like, holy crow, look at the line for uh people buying crack.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it was 1144 Grant.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that one.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: How about 1365 Finley?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Finley, oh my gosh.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's another one.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you, it was like all over.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh what was the one on college, that bad corner, 168?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: 166 in college.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: 168 sounded more familiar, but okay.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You worked there now.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was all over the place.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: But Sheridan, Sherman, you know, right there in 167.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was non-stop.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: You drive down.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the time they they left the car on uh 167 by Sherman, and it was a dead body in the trunk.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they and they just ever even all the cops, we'd be like, oh, here's an easy one.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'd write it like a few summonses, gets put on the on the uh on the windshield, and then someone like called 911 for a bad smell, and it was a uh a homicide.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: They killed him and threw him in the trunk.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, all you saw was like 50 tickets on the windshield.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh but no one towed it or not like that, but it was uh a body in the uh trunk.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: That place was crazy.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely crazy.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm gonna throw an address.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know you know this one.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have any interactions with the infamous 10 foot 1040 Woody Crest Avenue?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, Woody Crest.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um live there, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh with the what do you call it, shot the cops, Davis.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Larry Davis.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Every time we went there.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well you go there, it's over the radio.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: D D D.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is a sensitive location, the Davis family.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then you had those steps going down to Jerome Avenue.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that was uh high bridge.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was actually my sector, David Eddie.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think the boss, when when a job would come over at 1040 Woody Crest, which is where the infamous Larry Davis lived, and his family still lived in that house.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they still do, but they did.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, it would come over central, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the boss had to respond and do a 49, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: If if if there was a call there, it was like a sensitive location.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Boss had to respond with you.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: You you you brought up the high bridge, which link which goes across the Harlem River.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that was for the 4.4.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you screwed up, you'd get that foot post to walk the high bridge.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you ever get that?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, never.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess I was lucky, but we used to fight with the 4-6 with the Washington Bridge there because all the drug deals would come from Washington Heights, come over, and you'd see like 4-6 and 4-4 guys on each side waiting to pull them over and be like, ah, they went to the wrong side.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: They went to the 4-6.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the, you know, that was always a good on the 4-12 in the midnights, that was always, you know, one police car on each side waiting for the uh drug deals to come over the bridge.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember your first homicide as a as a precinct cop in the 4-4?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um Yes.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it was sad, and and me and my partner Joe got a call to Walton Avenue by uh 161 Street, and it came over as uh two people shot in the lobby.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when we went in, the lobby right in front of the door was uh a male Hispanic and a female Hispanic, both shot in the head.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we're calling it over and everything, and then we're like, this is a crazy store.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're like went into the apartment and we're looking for uh a phone.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because back then we really didn't have cell phones.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I went past one room, it was that kid's room, and I stopped and I looked.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, something's wrong.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I went in the kids' room and turned out the two little girls that were dressed in beautiful white, like community dresses, and they put a pillow over their head, and he shot them both in the head.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they would like he dressed them up to kill them.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was so crazy.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it turned out that um we found out later that the father uh killed the two little girls, then he waited for his wife to come home because he found out that she was having an affair.
• 15:49
  unknown: Oh, Jesus.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when she came home, he shot her and then he killed himself.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: She ended up living, coming out of a coma, and finding out her two little girls were uh killed, and you know, her ex-husband did it.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the 4-4 was a very, very violent precinct in those days.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I remember on overtime.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember Operation Take Back?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where they would they would fly cops from all over the borough, the other 11 precincts in bunches, and they would spread us out on foot posts all around the 4-4, and it's like, you see something, lock them up.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I mean, just the the overtime was crazy doing that Operation Take Back.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I once Operation Take Back, they made like uh they'd always have like crime of the day, sort of like auto stripping.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right, but it's a keeper, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, yes.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I grabbed uh uh a guy stripping a uh car, a bum.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um all of a sudden, uh when I grabbed him, he's like looking at me like really weird.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, you know, what's going on?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: We search him, and he's got like a uh a 45 on him.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I said to him, I said, What the hell?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're stripping cars and you got a when you just sell a 45.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, No, no, I was stripping the car, I took the seat off and I found it underneath the seat.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he held on to it and he was still stripping the car.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's a gun called like a gun collar.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right, I'll let the uh auto stripping go and I'll take the uh gun arrest.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: On a lighter note, were you ever assigned, did you ever get assigned to the telephone switchboard in the 4-4 when the infamous Mrs.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Jones would call?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, but uh what there was a guy who had the switch that in the uh switchboard in the uh 4.4 who got like pissed one day and he took out his revolver and he shot it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know that guy.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about the guy that shot the FATN machine?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, he was saying he shot the uh the computer behind the desk.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: He wound up in the 5-0.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know I know who you're talking about.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Great guy.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: As the story goes, this is before our time, a little before our time.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: They had just started with the FATN machines in the precinct.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: He came in with his partner, they wanted to go on meal, and whoever had the TS said you can't go on meal, we're holding jobs.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, What are you talking about?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Look.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: So he took his gun out and shot the F-18.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, now we're not holding jobs.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then he I think he had to go to the farm or whatever, and then he wound up in the five.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he didn't go to the farm, but he did what he definitely wound up in the five.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I wound up working with him a little bit on the four to twelve.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he stayed past his 20.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: He did some time.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: You figured you'd be scared.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well liked.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Good guy.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very well liked, yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the Mrs.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Jones, she was an older black female, and she would call the TS a couple of times a day, and she you pick up, you know, 4-4 Mulroy, and she'd say, Making pea soup, and she'd hang up and she would keep calling the pre- and then you'd eventually send somebody over there and she'd try to give you her soup, and they'd say, No, no, no, Mrs.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Jones, just please stop calling the TS.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But guys, I knew when the 4-4 used to say this woman used to call up the station house all the time.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about EDPs.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: We had an EDP on uh Jerome and 167, and it came over as guess a a you know lady disturbance in an apartment.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like on the fifth floor.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And me and my partner Joe Nastasio went over to uh this building, went up there, and we knocked on the door, and she actually opened the door.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And she was about in her 50s, and she was smoking a cigar and talking like a man.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, what the hell?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and she's totally naked and walking around smoking a cigar and like, what are you guys doing here?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, what the hell?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we gotta call the sergeant.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we called the sergeant and he came and we noticed a baby on the uh bed.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then we called the ESU and uh we went in there, and I remember she took one person and when we tried to grab her and threw them against the wall.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: She was like freaking possessed and like strong, like a monster strong.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it took like four of us to get her down.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: She even grabbed, she had like a little cup or a little thing full of blood that she was draining from her when from all her cuts, and she hit a cop with it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: He was doused with the blood.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, one cop just said, enough of this.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he freaking hit her over the head with a club and knocked her out.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got the baby out and out and everything, but it was just like crazy.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll never forget seeing that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, that was the first time I ever saw anyone possessed or anything like crazy.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, we took her to the hospital and I don't even know what happened after that, after she had to be admitted.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: She was she was nuts, man.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm sure she got top flight medical advice from Lincoln Hospital.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: They come out nuttier from there.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: They don't improve.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Was she big?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was chubby, but she wasn't like big.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: She was like five, six, five, seven, just like possessed, like I said, smoking that cigar and talking to us like, you know, like a regular man.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, what the hell?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen this.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, what is this?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we weren't about to go in there.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then when ESU came and you know, we had to think we had another patrol car because they wanted to see what was going on.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it was guess I don't know, just one of those crazy things in the Bronx.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: That like you tell people like, nah, no, you had to see it, you know.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did did you work in the old 4-4 station house or do did you start in the new one?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in the old 4-4.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not gonna Yeah, no, no, but I did right before I left.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I uh went to the new 4 4.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: How is how was the new 4 4 perceived with you guys?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, were you guys happy to go to the new building or do you wanted to stay down on Cedric in that old building?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to stay on Sedwick because like uh you know, people it was so far away.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: No one would come in to make complaints or come to the TS.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes we'd, you know, even lock someone up, give them a DAT, and they had to walk all the way from Sedwick all the way back.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was like miles.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: If they didn't catch a bus or something, they're like, oh man.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: But on 169, people would walk in constantly, you know, and file complaints and you know, it it's just it was too convenient for them.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a lot of trouble.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, you were tasked with going undercover early in your career.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Could you go into that a little bit?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, Joe, my old partner, like I said, he was going to FD.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I knew he was like a few months from being called, and I was wanting to be a detective, so I said, you know, let me take the career path.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the career path in the 404 was uh FT, you know, FTU G's, uh CPOP and SNOO and Crime.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, let me take a foot post, you know, go to CPOP.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh took uh a foot post from 170 to Mount Eden from Jerome to the concourse.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a few bad blocks in there.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, wife plays, Mount Eden was bad, there was drugs all over there.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um when I was taking the post, I started getting good, you know, knowing who was selling and everything, and I started uh locking up a lot of drug dealers, especially on wife plays, because they knew their routine, the drug dealers.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually, there were three brothers that ran that corner 171 and white.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them came up to me, like kind of joking, trying to throw something out at me.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, yo, you know, why do you work so hard?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't make that much money, you cops.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Maybe if you left us alone, I'd give you, you know, a thousand a week.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: He walked away.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know, what's he trying to say?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back, I actually talked to a sergeant of mine, uh, Jimmy Gibbon, great guy.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he told me, hey, I'm gonna make a phone call, talk to you tomorrow.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the next day he saw me at roll call and he's like, hey, I want you to talk to these guys on the concourse.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're gonna meet you at 171 in a van.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Oh, God, I know who they are.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I was kind of saying, Man, I'm dealing with the devil here.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I can I can ruin everything.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: But when I went on there, went in there, and there was a lieutenant, old Irish guy, great guy.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, we, you know, you can guess tell he got drafted and he didn't want to be there.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: But he even told me, he goes, I love these cases because we get to work with cops and they're good cops, and they're trying to make a difference.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're not taking money.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, he's like, Look, go talk to them, see what they want to do.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wire you up, you know, because Friday, we'll see, we'll take well, maybe like two payments and we'll lock up the brothers.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I went there and um they talked to me and they're like, yo, next Friday we'll give you the money.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we came by, they walk, you know, they wired me up, went in there, they gave me$1,000.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it went on for like, you know, like two, three weeks, and then I was talking to the guy's IAB, Lieutenant, and he's like, look, police commission knows about it, and he wants it to go longer.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, oh man, so I'm into like two months already.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then one day I go up there, they had an apartment up there, the drug dealers.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I went up there, talked to him, and the one brother was like kind of like a crackhead, and he came at me with a needle, like he wanted me to, you know, shoot some heroin.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up like punching them, knocking them to the ground.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at this time it was like two, three months.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sick of it, and I was sick of these guys because people in the neighborhood liked me when I was locking up everybody.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then towards, they knew these drug dealers were bragging that I was born.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So people in the street wouldn't even talk to me.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: They would like look the other way.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um, after beating them up in the apartment, one day I'm hanging out at 171 in Walton, and uh a like a taxi cab comes, you know, a tinted uh cab comes by, two guys in the front, two guys in the back, and they're like, Hey, can we talk to you?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Who are you guys?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, uh, you know, we're kind of like your partner.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, really?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah, we know the Aldea brothers, you know, we we work with them, and you know, we know you're having problems with someone, and you know, we just want to make sure things are good.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I can see the two guys in the back both have like a uh jacket or a towel over their lap.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I know they got something under there.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh God, this is not gonna go good.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they're like, you know, so what's the deal?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I told them about the guy trying to give me a needle, and I was like, look, I'm here for the money, that's it.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was just playing their their side because I didn't want nothing to go wrong.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, okay, we're gonna have a talk with him.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, You still want to do I said, Yeah, of course.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want the thousand dollars every week.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're like, Oh, okay, good.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because if this goes bad, and then the one, you know, these guys are gonna look for you.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they took their uh towels off, and you could see like these little machine guns, Uzies.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And right there, I was like, you know, they drove away, but then I was like, should I call, you know, put it over the radio?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or then I said, ah, let me not, let me just talk to these guys from IUP.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we told them, I, you know, I put 911 in the beeper.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even have cell phones.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: 911, 911, they met me on the concourse, what's up?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I told them what happened.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, all right, this is over with.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, and we're gonna take them down.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: They ended up bringing like six cars in and they locked them all up, you know, the brothers the the next day, and they transferred me to the uh 5.2.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was working in the 5.2 for about a month or two, and I actually got a call from them.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're sending me to the integrity review board.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, all right, this is my uh ticket, you know, maybe I'll get something good.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing they're like, oh well, you did a good job, kid, and we're gonna uh set you up an interview for narcotics.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, set me for an interview with narcotics.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are they crazy?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I I said to the I think it was like a lieutenant, a captain, and a sergeant.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey, uh, can you do anything for getting me on FD?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I you know, I'm on the list.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the captain had no sense of humor.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Are you out of here?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So he sent me out.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't get it.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get anything.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, the uh I got a call when I was on patrol.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was always driving the sergeant in the uh 5-2 to like uh we brought back to the command.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I saw the old uh IAB lieutenant, you know, he's like, Hey Mike, how you doing?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you come in the office with me?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, what the hell happened at the integrity review board?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I told him.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Are you nuts?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, You're getting nothing now.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting absolutely nothing.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: How can you answer FT?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, they're gonna give me an interview for narcotics.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Come on, I would stay in the 4-4 and make narcotics arrest.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh eventually he came back and told me, hey, you know, the the chief in IEB knew you did a good job, and we're gonna send you to the uh 4-7 squad uh squad.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I ended up in the uh I was actually the the a robbery unit first, 4-7 Bram.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did did anyone in the 4-4 other than your immediate supervisors know you were doing this?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: No one.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember guys would come by, you know, who I hang out with, and they would try to talk to me.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if it was a Friday, I'd avoid them.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean one time a squad car came, hey, come here, we're we're we're gonna go out tonight.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I said, guys, I gotta go talk to the super.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll be right back.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd go back into the building.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I said, I even talked to the drug dealers because you know, IEB really they just wanted to know were other cops on the take, were other bad cops.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like I said, I talked to them and then they're like, no, you're the first, you know, you're the only smart one to work with us.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So then I said to stuff, all right, no one's gonna go down.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's not gonna be any problems after this.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So You must have been walking, especially with that stigma with IEB back then, you must have been walking on pins and needles, because a place like the 4-4, it's you can get a bad reputation quick in a place like that, and you'll never get rid of it.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I knew I was doing the right thing.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I knew I wasn't like going into the pre- I would you never wear the wire going into the precinct.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just wear it, meet them on the concourse, go to the building.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, once I had contact with them, I would send them a beep, meet them the guys back on the the uh IB back on the concourse, take off my wire, and I'd go back to the precinct later on that day.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I would never, you know, have a wire on or nothing like that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I knew down deep down that it was doing the right thing.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: What what year did you go to the 4-7?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um about 2000 oh no, 1996.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: 96.
• 30:49
  unknown: Okay.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So c can you explain to our listeners.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 84.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, real early.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh gosh.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had like four, five, four or five years on patrol and I was in the in the ramp.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I went there, you know, like I said on other podcasts I talked about, I went there way too early.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: But now I see these guys, they go up to the squad with three, four years on.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: You should do at least seven, eight years on patrol before you go up to the squad ram.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't ready, but you know, I kind of, you know, I was thrown up there, and you know, you had to do what you had to do.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can can you explain for our listeners what a ram does in a precinct?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's the robbery uh team.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, you know, we just did strictly robbery.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: You work with the squad.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: You actually had weekends off, so it wasn't bad.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why no one wanted ever want to leave the robbery unit and go to the squad.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was an easier life.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't you could dress down, but you'd go strictly after robbery guys.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I had some good guys, good, you know, this guy Evan T and who worked with me really helped me out.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: He always tell me, watch, he goes, these guys you locked up for robbery, their next step after robbery is homicides.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we saw that all the time.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like going from go, go, go, go, go in the 4.4 where you're running after guys, chasing after guys?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're doing investigative work.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're showing photo arrays, now you're sitting behind a desk calling up witnesses.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is some action, but it's way different from patrol.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: How is that uh for you to adjust?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you, it took time, especially like going to the 4-7.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the Bronx, 4-7 looks like a nice neighborhood with nice houses and everything.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's wild.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Once it gets dark in the 4-7, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, in the 4-7, you wouldn't, you know, grab someone with a 25 or a little 22.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: They all had big guns.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: 45s, Uzies, Tech Nines.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: You'd get a lot of gun collars in the uh a lot of guys who were gun guys like to go to the 4-7.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, especially crime and everything, street crime.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: They love the 4-7.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I tell you, they would be there for a week and they would bring in like 16 to 20 guns.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and they take them up to the squad.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: They'd be like, damn, these guys are good.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: They were good.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Street crime was really good.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, working in working in Ram and then later in the squad, everybody develops informants.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Could you tell us about your informant, Butch?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Butch.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Butch was the best.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I used to call him the elephant man.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: He had such a big head.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he would uh tell me everything.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he was like, you see him, he was the knight of the living dead.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: He'd walk around the like 224th Street, White Plains Road.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: He knew everybody.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um he'd always, you know, I'd knock on his basement door and he would take like 10, 15 minutes to like come to the door because he'd be hiding his drugs and everything.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh one time, um, this is a crazy story.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: We had Mount Vernon.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: We were close with Mount Vernon guys, you know, detectives, and they had a missing.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they gave us all the information, last scene in a Red Bureau, and like two weeks later we found the Red Bureck on 224 Street, by like down the block from Butch's place.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Well, let me go see Butch.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: He always knows something, well, you know, because even though hookers or drug dealers would always go in there and shoot up in his apartment.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I knock on his door, he comes to the door, and I'm like, hey Butch, how you doing?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like, uh, I want to ask you about this guy who's uh missing from Mount Vernon.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden he starts to cry.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh God, this ain't good.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on, Butch?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, okay, let me tell you.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, the guy was here doing drugs with us, and we were in the corner, and all of a sudden he goes, fell over and he died.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right, so what did you do?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Call 911, you get an EMS?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, No, we rolled him up in the carpet and we put him in the corner.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, and I'm like, he's not still there.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, yeah, he's still there in the corner.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I went over to the carpet, lifted over, bent it.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I could see his hair on the top.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, here we go.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I called the squad and came over and uh, you know, crime scene, everything.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was him.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, of course his wallet was missing.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, his wallet was there, but all the cash was missing.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Bush got like illegal disposing of a body and he went to rehab.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've never never saw him again.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: His mother lived upstairs, and the house had no electricity, no water, no nothing.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And they went to get her out.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: We had to call the fire department to get like a ladder and get her out of the thing.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: She hasn't been out of her apartment in like or the house in like ten years, and the stairs rotted away, so she couldn't even get out.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: He used to throw food up to her, you know, you know, up the stairwell, you know, the where it was collapsed and like throw her like a hamburger and stuff, and you know, I guess condemn the house.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: They ended up knocking it down like uh a few weeks later.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh and never saw her again.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: But he was a good informant.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: The elephant man.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, can you share an interesting robbery case that stands out to you that you handled?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this one uh happened, and I tell you, I always think about it because the guy was such a great guy.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was an Indian family, and I believe the last name was Pasad, or I can't even remember.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm horrible with names.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: But um his daughter kept on getting uh beat up by her ex-boyfriend.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that community was very close.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: They, the Indian community, they had the same church, same church group, they had the same great uh set of friends.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: She was like 21, 22, she was going to college.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: He'd always like knew where she was, you know, coming home, and he would grab her and beat her up and you know, tell her you're gonna get back together with me.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the father took her into the precinct, told me the story.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: He was such a nice guy.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was just him raising his daughter.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I forget where his wife was or the divorced.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he first he said, Can you guys talk to him?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Sure, I'll talk to him.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I he came in, nice kid, I mean college educated, and I told him, Leave him alone, leave her alone, or you're gonna get locked up.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure enough, like he couldn't listen.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: A week later, he he beat her up in the street, took her books, college books, and the father told me about it, so I said, All right, this guy, you know, I gave him a break, I'm gonna lock him up.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we locked him up, and uh about another week later, the father came in, and it was like you know, like one o'clock in the afternoon, and he's like, Mike, uh, she's gone.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Whoa, what are you talking about?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I you know, I'm very religious, and in my heart I feel she's moved on.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't come home.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Look, Mr.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Passad, I'm gonna take care of this, go home, I'll find her.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I took my partner, went down to uh Teller Avenue across from the park, knocked on his door.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: He lived in the basement, and we knocked on the basement door, no answer.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: We knocked on the uh super and he wasn't there, but his son was there.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I told him about the kid.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: You seen the kid?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Oh yeah, I saw him about two two days ago.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: He borrowed a pitchfork and a shovel from me.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Oh, this ain't good.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is bad.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we drove around the park across the street from uh Teller.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't see nothing dug up or nothing like that, but I mean it's a pretty big park, but we gave it a shot.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: So went back to the house and I said to my partner, like, help.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: We knocked again, he didn't answer, so we're like, we're kicking the door in.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we kicked the door in and when we walked by the apartment, we uh walked past the bathroom and I saw something.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Went in the uh bathroom and the kid hung himself.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: So we're like, oh boy, here we go.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Called the squad boss and you know, notified the 4-4 and uh while we're making notifications, uh on in his room I see like dirt on the floor.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we pushed the bed back.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like a mattress and a box sprint.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I push it back and I see it all broken up.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Oh, this ain't good.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we even called ESU.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're all there, and sure enough, like within like a few minutes we found her arm and she was dead and he buried underneath the bed.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh man.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I even my boss was there.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I even told him, I said, look, I'm not gonna call the father.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, it was he was calling me, but I wasn't answering the phone.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I gotta go see him in person and and and talk to him.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back with my partner, and four it was actually a four-four case now, because it happened in the four-four.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um went back, knocked on his door, and he like he knew he knew in his heart that she was gone.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: He even took us around the house, showing her photos.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Such a pretty girl.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: We went to the funeral and everything, beautiful, and you know, he he was like hugging us at the f at the uh the wake and everything, saying, you know, thank you guys, and I I I could see, you know, you guys cared so much about her and everything.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, yeah, you know, she was such a good person.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, uh as a detective, you never really get to meet the homicide bif victim before the homicide.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the first time.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And these were good people, there weren't drug dealers, they were because, you know, crazy domestic homicide.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um I thought like probably about two days later, he came in with a basket of fruit and he brought me into the squad and he's like, Here, this is for you.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, You know, why are you doing this?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I you know, I should be giving it to you.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, No, I could see the hurt in your eyes.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, It bothered you and your partner.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, I appreciate that.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I said it it really did.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like I said, you know, you gotta separate yourself.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that was one of the cases that, you know, was really hard to uh swallow.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you got that when you were in Ram, because it was a robbery of books from a person, and then it turns into a homicide.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually you go up to the squad.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: What was that transition like going from Ram where you're just handling robberies?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're handling everything from bounce checks to homicides.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I went kicking and screaming.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, come on, leave me in the squad.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, leave me in the ram.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: No one wants to go to the squad.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you got that 4-2 chart, the turnaround, you know, uh sleep it over on the second one.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had a good partner, Mike DePaulis, and uh we had a good team.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, Timmy O'Neill, Vinnie Price, and these guys, the two older guys, Vinny and Timmy, you know, showed me my calmed us down because we're still young on the job, but they calmed us down, showed, you know, showed us the correct way to uh do things and not to run around like we, you know, let's go out and get them.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, no, let's do our computer checks, let's do it the right way.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, you know, we learned.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: We learned we thank God we had two guys with time on that showed us what to do because these new guys nowadays don't have that.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's got like you're in a squad ten years, and that's a lot.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mike, I came across an attempted rape case you made over by Woodlawn Cemetery.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was made up.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'd say she had me fooled.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she she was like a robbery-attempted uh rape.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it turned out like later on that she made all this up.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: She wanted to like she was just like lonely and she wanted people to notice her and pay attention to her.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she made the she even like took a key, we found out, and scraped and cut herself to make it look like she was robbed and everything.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we ended up uh getting the guy out and she got locked up for falsely reporting an incident.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: W was this the case where when you went to lock the kid up, he laughed because he thought it was a joke?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I believe so.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Yeah, that you know.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: He was laughing because he didn't do it.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he didn't do it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she picked him out, she was like crying, oh my god, I'll never forget that face.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the kid's like, what?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, even as a detective, like I said, you know, you knew, like when you had a good idea and or, you know, someone like, you know, like you know, the old way too of even when we had a guy for a shooting or homicide, leave him in his cell.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if he went to sleep, he was guilty.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: He laid down, he was guilty, because no one who was given going to jail for a murder or you know, whatever a shooting is gonna go go to sleep on a bench.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: But this kid, you know, I was like, I knew something was off.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, we ended up bringing her back in, talking to her, and you know, it something didn't sit right.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she admitted that she made it up.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she ended up we ended up him getting out, which you know, of course he deserved to, you know, get out and have his freedom, and and this woman was just like kind of like a nut job.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: She was older and she was, you know, she guess had nothing to do.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she started making up things and poor got this poor kid in jail.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it worked out all right, thank gosh.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well thank God you knew something was off.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Mike, you worked on you worked on a murder case for over four years.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go into that a little?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, Nellie Holcott.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was uh Laconia Avenue and uh the lady someone went in, we didn't know who and uh no force entry it was you know she was like ninety-one years old lived on her own everyone in the neighborhood loved her you know she went to church you know nothing suspicious nothing like you would just say you know oh wow you know they're going in to get money she she didn't like wear a lot of jewelry you know her husband died uh probably like ten fifteen years you know before this and um they found her tied up to a chair and a bag over her head and she suffocated and it was like a a big uh wine jug that they forced her to drink wine to almost like she passed out and because the bottle was right next to her and then they put the bag on and she actually woke up but she couldn't breathe she couldn't get any air through and she ended up dying that way.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I tell you we worked everything.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know we me and my partner Mike DePaul worked everything on this case.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know and we even had a medium come to the uh to the crime scene and the medium uh she was great you know I've you know I've known her for years and she told us you know something she told us what happened there she described it perfectly and she just said that the old lady doesn't want to cooperate she's happy where she is and she doesn't want to see anyone else you know suffer or go to jail.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I mean she gave us a few clues and everything and it turned out like uh if you remember back in the day Mike Sheehan great guy and he had New York's most wanted and we did you know we did a TV show with it showing about the homicide and um some girl was watching it and she a few days earlier she heard her friends talking about you know about something.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: She was she was actually talking to a girl on the phone and she put the girl's like oh uh I gotta put you on hold and she's gotta talk to a friend in Florida but she didn't put her on a hold she put her on a three way and the two girls were talking about how they killed the old lady on Laconi Avenue and this girl's just listening and sure enough you know then we did that thing with Mike Sheehan and she's like oh my gosh this is the homicide so she called tips and uh you know she got a hold of us told us where the people were and um we ended up going out grabbing them.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: One lived in uh the Bronx the other one lived in Brooklyn brought them in took a little time and we uh ended up getting the story that you know the neighbor was one of the girls uh aunt and they were waiting for her to come home and they saw Nellie Holcup is those houses in the 4-7 that there's two houses attached.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah and they saw this old lady coming in and she had groceries and she went to Co-op City to go shopping and she came back and they helped her with groceries and when they she put her purse down they saw money in it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they said oh we helped you with your uh your groceries you don't give us any money and you know whatever and it ended up getting a little violent and they ended up robbing her and the one girl said to the other girl she's gonna recognize me from my aunt next door and they ended up tying her to the chair and they're like yo let let's make her guzzle wind and maybe she'll forget what she saw.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, stupid and they ended up tying the bag and she ended up dying but uh yeah they they ended up giving it up and the one girl was a lot locked up a few times and the other girl was never locked up and when we uh printed her her prints came back to the uh the uh house so we had a good case but I tell you it was a a long homicide four years to work on that homicide but uh it was rewarding at the end when we got 'em like how many homicides was the four seven average in a year during your time there?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'd say anywhere from 40s to uh 50s 40 to 50 homicides a year.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of homicides.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like I said but it was a it was a big area but a big you know big violent area.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the only good part we really had over there was probably like Woodlawn but we never went up there.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we'd go up there from you know yeah but but but like the the 4-7 you had at that the area along I-95 and then you had Woodlawn the park and then you had Adam Sandler well that's the 5-0 but there were a lot of dump jobs in the 4-7 you know like right along I-95 you guys had that murder of um the banano guy George from Canada Skatia they dumped his body up there up by Boston Road in my broad daylight.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes I believe so I think uh my friend Charlie had that case yeah because it was like yeah I think that area was so big like you said no one would see in certain areas so it was an easy dumping ground all right so I'm gonna throw a couple of locations from the 4-7 that just came to the top of my head.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever have any shootings or homicides at the infamous Stardust Ballroom up on Boston Road?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh yeah where they had all the weddings and everything yeah yep I tell you they would come out sometimes after the Albanian weddings and they'd take their guns start shooting up in the air but uh Boston yeah you had uh Fish Avenue yeah you know and then you had the uh the firehouse over there and remember we had uh the cop who was killed over there that was right before I got there I don't remember that could you go into that um I wasn't there Jesus uh Hector uh Hector Fonnez oh yeah yeah right right right yeah those buildings over there always looked like little projects and they they were like mazes over there and we used to always have Fish Avenue and can't think of all the names by right off of Boston and there were little mazes and you know the playgrounds you can cut into one area to another but uh there weren't projects but there were it was a dangerous blocks over there.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of drug dealers You you had a wild case in the 4-7 with a crackhead who kept her kids in a closet Yeah it wasn't my case it was uh Vinny's case we got a call of uh two kids DOA in the uh in an apartment in the projects Edenwall you know Edenwall that's the city that's it is it is it's huge and when we went in um there was uh two kids a boy and a girl the girl was probably like I don't know man maybe eight and the kid was like four and they were both in the living in the closet and uh it turned out you know the whole story was you know because we brought back the aunt and the boyfriend that the aunt was telling us her sister was uh selling drugs and she got put away and the sisters said you gotta take care of my two kids so her and her husband would guess or boyfriend was just getting high on crack and the kids would guess in the way and um one day uh the kids she made them she made them like live in the closet.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't give them a room and they snuck out of the closet and ate some of the chicken that she had in the refrigerator and she found out about it and she got furious and she grabbed the one little girl turned on the stove and held her hand down on the stove so she like probably passed out and they threw her in the closet because when we ended up fighting her we could see the bones in her hand from the gangrene and everything.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: But she yeah she just her and her boyfriend just went out smoking and they left them in there and uh probably for like maybe a a week and they just ended up dying and starving to death.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know what the ME said and when we talked to the boyfriend of course he gave her up he's like she never wanted these kids and she didn't take care of them.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile he didn't do anything he was just going out smoking crack with her but he didn't want to take the rap for it.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: But they ended up both being charged with murder but that was a horrible scene.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Something that will stay with you I I always ask squad guys this that are retired are there any cases that you were unable to solve that stands out to you that haunts you to this day um I mean th thank God Nelly was solved that would have haunted me and uh I had another it was funny right before I retired I had great lieutenant Lieutenant Rafferty.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know Pat Yeah yeah for sex guy yes and there was another lady Mitchell and she was 92 killed on 224 not too far from Butch but Butch was away by that time and uh you know we solved that you know got lucky we found video and this and that and we uh but we solved it within like two three days it turned out that these kids were just shooting guns and they ended up shooting a gun you know like instead of shooting it in the air they shot it like sideways and she was turning her up turning her TV channel and it went through the window hit her in the hip and like said her being 92, she like called her neighbor and they came over and you know I I it's funny because I was I was probably one of the first guys on the scene.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'd get bored in the squad and I always drive around in my car looking for stuff.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um I got there and you know I knew she was shot in the hip but like I said when you know someone shot in the hip and they're 92 years old you know you know there's gonna be a problem.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she ended up dying in the hospital and uh you know w went to video you know all the video in the neighborhood and we found them on White Plains Road he had some jacket that really stood out and we even the drug dealers you know kind of got pissed that this old lady got killed and they kind of gave us information where uh the kid was hanging out who he was and we ended up getting him in two or three days.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: But um I mean I I was lucky the only homicide I never solved and I knew who did it and I guess couldn't prove it was this kid Trigger.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that was his street name Trigger.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was always shooting people and uh I kept in contact with the 4-7 guys and they ended up getting him on a federal case so and and even on my case.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I was pretty lucky far as solving all my cases.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try to start going on a lighter note.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: You were in the 4-7 were you there or do you remember when the infamous DeCourcy one way sign started popping up all over the Bronx?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere you'd catch in in central booking you'd go into the bathroom and you'd see DeCourcy one way.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny man I forgot all about that.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well it's funny.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked in the Bronx my whole career and I would see guys whoever was doing it was an artist because they would draw a one-way sign and it said deCourcy one way and it looked like a one-way sign.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: You'd see it at the gas pumps you'd see it in Bronx Central Book and in the men it was all over any NYPD installation I worked with a guy in AutoCrime who was a 4-7 guy.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: DeCourcy was a midnight guy I think was a really good guy.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I met him a couple of times really nice guy was not a one way guy but someone was busting his balls and was putting his name all over the place well one day this guy DeCourcy is in the 4-7 or somewhere and a boss uh a chief or a deputy or a shoe fly sees the name and he goes why the fuck are you putting your name all he starts he goes I'm not doing it he goes he didn't rat the guy out he knew who was doing it he goes I'm not doing it he goes I don't know someone's putting my name up all over the place but I knew you I knew a 4-7 guy would know exactly I was thinking of things they asked you last night and I'm like the course he went way so if he's watching everywhere every bathroom everywhere in the Bronx you saw that all right but like I said you never let anyone know something bother you because if if they knew it bothered you they would do it more.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Same with a nickname if if someone tagged you with a nickname and you didn't like it you better hope you can just get through it and it'll go away the second you make a face the second you push back on it that's your nickname for the rest of your career.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh we had we had one guy I I guess got to tell you this story we had this one guy uh he he was uh a detective with us and he was in the Bram and I was in the squad but he was cheap like we'd go out for coffee and it'd be like you know you'd like Reg the squad guy he'd be like hey anyone want coffee and uh you know he would never buck up or never buy coffee for us so me and my partner Mike DePaulis were like we're gonna get him and Mike set the stage he went into this to the Bram and he's like guys it's Mulroy's birthday today wish him a happy birthday and they're like screw him this and that I'm you know he's like well you know guys just wish him a happy birthday when it comes in.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he comes in they're like you know they're yelling obscenities to me when I walked in and everything so but before I I came to work I went to Dunkin' Donuts and just took one of the cards off the uh the the table the Dunkin' Donuts thing I didn't put no money on it I just grabbed it and then I saw the one guy in there who never buys coffee and I said look my wife gave me this card it's 50 bucks on it you know can you go out?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'll call him Steve I I don't want to use anyone's names and I said Steve guess you know get the guy's coffee you know it could have been you know a few of us four of us maybe$10$12 the most so we went around it was right around the corner on 233rd Street so we let give him a time he went in there and we pulled up like a little down the block watching him and I see him pointing to all the bagels and sandwiches.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: He must you know he bought like a ton of stuff and he thought he was going to get me and then we see him like with his hands up in the air because the guy keeps on swiping he's like there's nothing on it.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we were laughing hysterical and we drove back and he came into the squad and he just like threw the food down on the table and he goes Moray I hate you but you know like I said in the squad you know you you're with these guys 24-7 so you know who who does what who's not chipping in you know even with the club right you got to give your money to the club you're not you know you know got to have your coffee and your snacks in the back but you got to contribute.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a shame you guys didn't go back to that Dunkin' Donuts and pull that footage we could have done so much like if that would have happened in autocrime that would have been on everyone's screensaver i that that would have been fucking everywhere I mean the guys in my office were brutal and Queens was worse than us they had too much time on their hand.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: So Mike you and your daughter have written a great book about your NYPD career could you tell us about it?
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um like I said my uh my daughter and she's always been bugging me and uh she's like my dad you know you never tell me stories you know you you you know you tell your you tell my brother brother's older and you know I I never want to like I said I I would tell her like something funny but I would never want to tell her all the the homicides and what we really seen.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um what do you call it?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: We guess finally I gave in and we started writing took us about eight months and I wrote about my career on the job all the homicides and everything I've gone through that some of the stuff we we talked about today on the podcast.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what what's the name of your book and where can our listeners pick up a copy?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's called The Silence I got a copy right here look the uh the silence we carry it's on Amazon Books and like I said it's it's I made it more far as like me and you talking in a bar and I'm telling you stories.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to drag these stories out.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to you know give the gist of it and tell you you know what it was about not to drag it out that I you know telling stories like oh I went home and the next day I came to work.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the stories are two pages and like I think the most is probably the Nellie Holcutt story.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was probably like 20 but most of them are like not long stories but you know you get to know what it's about.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: And last time I'll do this to you what's the name of the book again?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: The Silence We Carry.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Mulroy thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you Vic for having me on it was great.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And as always I'd like to thank everyone for tuning in especially my listeners in San Antonio Texas White Plains New York San Diego California Albany New York and Pittsburgh Pennsylvania if you work in law enforcement or had an interesting criminal background please drop me a note on Twitter or Instagram at VicFerrari50.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you're watching on YouTube please hit the like and subscribe buttons and if you're really feeling strong please hit the share button and if you enjoy the content check out my Amazon author page just type in my name Vic Ferrari like the car where you can preview all my NYPD books for free.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again everyone and I'll see you next week.