Latest / Pop of Culture / S03 E15 - We Find Joy

Transcript

S03 E15 - We Find Joy · Pop of Culture

• 0:00
  Support for pop of culture comes from Stallings wealth management.
• 0:02
  Daniel Stallings, financial advisor, securities
• 0:04
  and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC member, FINRA,
• 0:08
  SIPC, a broker dealer and registered investment advisor.
• 0:11
  Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity.
• 0:15
  This week on pop culture,
• 0:17
  heartfelt conversations and heartfelt music.
• 0:21
  Author Jill Christman’s latest memoir is 20 years in the making.
• 0:25
  And I hear myself thinking that even now and I can stop myself now, I think, well,
• 0:29
  I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill?
• 0:32
  And musical group Duende Libre
• 0:34
  tells us about the international influences
• 0:37
  they've picked up before they perform in Muncie.
• 0:41
  That's coming up.
• 0:43
  Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings
• 0:46
  wealth management and from you.
• 0:50
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 0:53
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 0:57
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 1:00
  So you are the reason local
• 1:03
  programing is still on IPR.
• 1:06
  Give today at Indiana Public radio.org.
• 1:13
  From IPR this is pop of culture.
• 1:15
  I’m Jen Blackmer. And I'm Michele Kinsey.
• 1:19
  Coming up later this hour we chat with jazz trio Duende Libre.
• 1:23
  They'll bring a long list of international influences to a performance in Muncie.
• 1:28
  But first, the Heart Folds Early is a new memoir by author Jill Christman.
• 1:33
  This is her fourth book.
• 1:35
  Jill, thanks for coming by the show to talk to us about your book.
• 1:39
  Jen I feel like it goes without saying that I am a huge pop of culture fan,
• 1:43
  and it is my pure delight.
• 1:47
  If you could see me, I'm sparkling with delight to be here today.
• 1:50
  She is to our radio listeners.
• 1:51
  We’re, we're so happy you could come by.
• 1:53
  And in the opening to the book, you say that you had been working on this book
• 1:59
  and that this book exists in and in a certain version,
• 2:03
  and then you put it away for three years.
• 2:06
  Why did you put it away?
• 2:07
  Yeah, it was around 2018 ish.
• 2:12
  I had an agent who was shopping around a version of this book—which
• 2:16
  has tried on so many outfits, it's like someone in a prom shop, right?
• 2:21
  And I would be lying if I told you if I could remember what version that was,
• 2:26
  but we, I had an agent at the time, and it was going around
• 2:29
  to some of the big houses, and the feedback we were getting
• 2:34
  was that the marketing folks
• 2:37
  didn't know how to talk about a book that took on the subject
• 2:43
  of a second trimester medical abortion,
• 2:46
  and I took that in.
• 2:49
  At one point, for example, there was a conversation
• 2:52
  about how they didn't know how they would
• 2:53
  position this book for sales at baby showers, for example.
• 2:57
  And I thought, that makes no sense to me.
• 2:59
  Other things I was hearing included, and I quote, motherhood has been played out.
• 3:04
  So to all of you fellow mothers, I was like.
• 3:07
  Has it really? Yes.
• 3:08
  That's news for any of you who came from a mother in some way.
• 3:14
  I don't think that that's true.
• 3:16
  But also, as an editor, I don't believe that any subject has been played out.
• 3:19
  Anyway, it started to seem really hard.
• 3:22
  I'm going to be really honest.
• 3:23
  It just started to seem really hard.
• 3:25
  And I thought to myself, is this the battle I want to fight?
• 3:29
  I thought, no writing is ever wasted.
• 3:32
  I worked really hard on this book.
• 3:33
  I learned a lot about myself and about the world from writing this book.
• 3:37
  I'm good and I'm out.
• 3:39
  Like, yeah, yeah, I was out and and then, as you
• 3:42
  said, as you in the in the prolog, I talk about it.
• 3:47
  The Dobbs decision came down in the summer of 2022.
• 3:52
  I remember where I was as I heard the news,
• 3:55
  and it would sound like hyperbole to tell you that
• 3:59
  I knew on that day that I would return to this manuscript and finish it.
• 4:03
  But I knew on that day I would return to this manuscript
• 4:06
  and finish it, because I knew I had the capacity to tell a story
• 4:11
  that I wasn't able to find that I desperately needed to hear, when I was
• 4:15
  going through the experiences of the book, and it was my job.
• 4:19
  So I did it.
• 4:20
  Right, right, and I think many of us remember where we were in that moment,
• 4:24
  because many truths that we thought,
• 4:28
  were, were a part of our existence changed.
• 4:33
  And and that happened very quickly, even though there was some anticipation
• 4:37
  that it may happen, there was a real difference when it did.
• 4:42
  Yes. Yes. Yeah.
• 4:44
  The refrain that, you keep coming back to
• 4:48
  and I think as it relates to the this moment in history,
• 4:53
  is that the choice you never thought
• 4:56
  you'd have to make is, is you never know what you'll do in that moment.
• 5:01
  Right.
• 5:01
  And that choosing something in theory, is not choosing.
• 5:06
  Yeah.
• 5:07
  And that sounds really simple.
• 5:09
  And I really wrote myself to that conclusion
• 5:13
  after years and years of trying to understand.
• 5:16
  And I think one thing that's so different about this book for me.
• 5:20
  And so for those of you working on your memoirs out there, I'm three memoirs in.
• 5:23
  So I feel like I am a bit of an expert on this.
• 5:24
  I've been doing this for 30 years.
• 5:26
  Yeah, I'd say so.
• 5:27
  I, and this is the advice I still give to my students who are on maybe,
• 5:31
  maybe for memoir number one, it's different,
• 5:33
  but I always say nobody gets to be in the room with you when you're working.
• 5:37
  Right there is,
• 5:39
  I once heard Cheryl Strayed say this, and it was hilarious and true.
• 5:43
  There is not a direct pipeline from your laptop to the New Yorker, right?
• 5:47
  You're safe.
• 5:47
  Okay, so tell your story the way you need to tell your story.
• 5:52
  Don't let your mother come in the room with you.
• 5:55
  Don't let your spouse come in the room with you. Don't.
• 5:57
  Don't let those who intimidate you in any way come into the room with you.
• 6:02
  Maybe even the people who love you. Everybody out right?
• 6:06
  With this book, it was completely different.
• 6:09
  I felt like this book was positioning me
• 6:13
  to be part of a conversation that we all need to have.
• 6:17
  And so I was like, Jen Blackmer, come into the room, right?
• 6:23
  Yeah. Mom, come on in.
• 6:26
  Right.
• 6:27
  My grown children, for whom I am always writing into a future
• 6:32
  where I might not even be, come into the room right.
• 6:36
  Also, those who have faced a similar devastating
• 6:39
  diagnosis as we did, mid pregnancy and have to make a decision.
• 6:44
  Those of you who made a different decision come into the room.
• 6:47
  I want you to be here more than anybody else. Right?
• 6:50
  I want this to be a conversation about
• 6:53
  what we do when we are faced
• 6:56
  with the reality of that situation,
• 6:59
  with every single permutation of circumstance present.
• 7:03
  Right.
• 7:04
  Like in our case, our baby was diagnosed with half a heart.
• 7:08
  He also had no aorta, right?
• 7:10
  The doctors told us his condition was incompatible with life
• 7:15
  and I didn't even know that was possible.
• 7:18
  Yeah, like I couldn't have told you how I would do this or I would do that
• 7:24
  because I didn't know that was possible.
• 7:27
  And then in the writing of the book, I realized, well,
• 7:30
  I would have told you that I would have done this.
• 7:31
  And I hear myself thinking, even now, and I can stop myself now.
• 7:35
  I think, well, I would do this.
• 7:36
  I was like, would you? Jill? Yeah.
• 7:38
  Like, how do you know? Like what?
• 7:40
  What if what if you didn't have other children?
• 7:43
  What if, you know, there are just so many? What if, what if, what if?
• 7:46
  And I just one day I was like, an imaginary choice is not a choice.
• 7:51
  An imaginary choice is a mind experiment, right?
• 7:55
  And the thought experiments that go on in, in places of power
• 8:00
  with the people who have the power to shape what those choices are,
• 8:05
  are often conducted in that singular mindset.
• 8:09
  Well, I would do fill in the blank and it's like you just there,
• 8:13
  you have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing.
• 8:16
  You have no way of knowing.
• 8:17
  And in fact, when I think about how I almost didn't finish this book right,
• 8:22
  and I almost did not allow myself
• 8:25
  to be part of that conversation, that's scary to me.
• 8:28
  Sure. Right. Because it almost worked.
• 8:30
  I was almost like, yeah, you're right, this is too hard.
• 8:33
  This is too scary.
• 8:35
  I'm just going to keep it to myself.
• 8:37
  And I have
• 8:40
  never met a secret or a silence
• 8:44
  that helped anybody except for those trying to control the narrative.
• 8:48
  Right? Right.
• 8:50
  You mentioned being invited in to the conversation,
• 8:54
  which is so powerful and it's so clear in the book,
• 8:59
  and I've known you for a long time, but there's something
• 9:03
  that is is really quite
• 9:06
  beautiful about the experience of feeling
• 9:10
  as though the person writing this book is talking directly to you.
• 9:15
  And that was my experience.
• 9:16
  It was almost like you were sitting next to me.
• 9:18
  And there's there's such an exquisite vulnerability to that.
• 9:23
  And how do you write from that place?
• 9:28
  Oh, that's a good question, Jen.
• 9:31
  I, I don't experience
• 9:34
  that as vulnerability as much as I used to.
• 9:39
  And I think it's partially comes from confidence.
• 9:43
  Right?
• 9:43
  I have practiced telling stories
• 9:46
  for many, many years. And
• 9:51
  and maybe I'm trying
• 9:52
  to make a theater analogy here, but I'm wondering, you know,
• 9:55
  like the first time you go on stage, you're probably more nervous, right?
• 9:58
  Yeah.
• 9:58
  And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like,
• 10:03
  you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else.
• 10:05
  I could break down that fourth wall.
• 10:07
  I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right.
• 10:10
  So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me.
• 10:13
  But also
• 10:15
  with that experience has come my full understanding
• 10:20
  that writing is the safest place.
• 10:23
  I know. I know, to be.
• 10:24
  I never feel safer
• 10:28
  or more comfortable than when I'm trying to figure out
• 10:33
  how to shape a story in words and so sometimes people say to me,
• 10:40
  how was what was it like to go back to that scary place?
• 10:43
  Yeah, Right? Wasn't that awful?
• 10:46
  And I used to think, oh, yeah, that was scary and I guess so.
• 10:50
  But now I understand that when I go back, I go back with everything I am now.
• 10:56
  Everyone who loves me all the power I have accrued
• 11:00
  right through using language to shape and experience.
• 11:04
  And I can go back to a thing that was scary at the time.
• 11:10
  And now I can stop when I want.
• 11:11
  I can start when I want.
• 11:12
  I can figure out a metaphor that helps me to understand that thing better.
• 11:17
  So. So yeah, I think that maybe,
• 11:21
  vulnerability has come to mean actually a place of power.
• 11:27
  Yeah, I believe that.
• 11:28
  Yeah.
• 11:29
  And I think that the thing that you said about feeling
• 11:33
  like I was talking to you, that makes me so happy because I was.
• 11:37
  Yeah. Right.
• 11:38
  And that was the thing
• 11:42
  that felt so different to me in this book than anything else.
• 11:45
  I feel like other books I have written for myself, and that was good and right.
• 11:48
  And as it should be, and this one I was really trying to
• 11:54
  just have everybody come in and have that conversation with me.
• 11:57
  And every time I came up against something that I felt afraid
• 12:00
  to say or felt like, oh, so-and-so wouldn't like this.
• 12:03
  First of all,
• 12:05
  I have never been right about that in any of my previous books ever.
• 12:09
  Yeah. And if you talk to memoirists, they'll tell you this.
• 12:11
  They'll be like, oh, I was afraid
• 12:13
  my father would be angry about this, or I was afraid
• 12:15
  my mother would have her feelings hurt by this.
• 12:17
  Folks have been angry.
• 12:19
  Folks have had their feelings hurt.
• 12:20
  These things have happened.
• 12:21
  Although again, not as much as you would think.
• 12:23
  And I have never been right about what that thing would be.
• 12:26
  Never, ever.
• 12:27
  So I don't worry about that anymore, because what's the point?
• 12:29
  There's no point.
• 12:30
  Yeah.
• 12:31
  Well, and it goes, it goes to show that that you never can
• 12:34
  really know the thought processes of another human being.
• 12:38
  I mean, part of what we do as writers is we are reaching out.
• 12:41
  We are, you know, sending out signals and all of that to the people
• 12:45
  in hopes that they'll pick them up and we'll have that moment of connection.
• 12:49
  Right. And that happens.
• 12:50
  But sometimes the connection is not what we anticipate it to be almost always.
• 12:54
  Right? Yeah. It's the same thing, I guess.
• 12:56
  I guess it's the same thing as with the choices, right?
• 12:58
  That's a it's another kind of thought experiment, right?
• 13:00
  Like, oh, I know this is you.
• 13:02
  Yeah. Actually don't know.
• 13:03
  Yeah. You have to write it and see how people respond.
• 13:06
  And so nothing makes me happier.
• 13:09
  And I've been getting this feedback on this book a lot.
• 13:11
  It's a real page turner.
• 13:13
  Yeah. It's what people tell me. But they can't put it down.
• 13:15
  People are losing sleep now.
• 13:16
  I don't recommend at my age- Losing sleep is true because I.
• 13:21
  My reading time is before I go to bed at night,
• 13:23
  and I would start and pick it up and say, okay, I'm
• 13:25
  going to read this much or I'm going to read this one section.
• 13:27
  I would read this one chapter
• 13:28
  and then, you know, an hour and a half later I'm going to bed late.
• 13:32
  See, I am sorry about that.
• 13:34
  I'm glad, though, that it's compelling in that way. And
• 13:40
  the other thing that I, that,
• 13:41
  my publicists would want me to mention is that it's actually quite funny.
• 13:46
  So I know that we are talking about dark material, but another thing
• 13:50
  I was able to bring into this book, I think, where the fullness.
• 13:54
  Well, who am I kidding? I'm always funny.
• 13:55
  I have been in the past also, right?
• 13:59
  But even more so is
• 14:04
  I don't think.
• 14:06
  I think that when we can laugh, we need to laugh.
• 14:09
  And I think that when we are able to open a window and let in some light,
• 14:15
  we should take that opportunity to do that,
• 14:18
  because the tough stuff is always going to be there waiting for us.
• 14:22
  Right?
• 14:23
  The darker rooms are going to be there waiting for us,
• 14:26
  and when
• 14:27
  we can bring in that light in the air to help us navigate that tough stuff,
• 14:31
  it actually
• 14:31
  allows us to go to deeper places and then come up
• 14:34
  and see the light in there and then deal with what we need to deal with.
• 14:38
  And so I really let that into this book.
• 14:41
  And when I thought, oh, this is not a place to, you know,
• 14:46
  have the funny scene where my husband Mark comes into the room and sees me.
• 14:51
  Oh, you'll have to read the book to see they Support for pop of
• 14:53
  culture comes from Stallings wealth management.
• 14:55
  Daniel Stallings, financial advisor, securities
• 14:57
  and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC member, FINRA,
• 15:02
  SIPC, a broker dealer and registered investment advisor.
• 15:05
  Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity.
• 15:09
  This week on pop culture,
• 15:10
  heartfelt conversations and heartfelt music.
• 15:14
  Author Jill Christman’s latest memoir is 20 years in the making.
• 15:19
  And I hear myself thinking that even now and I can stop myself now, I think, well,
• 15:22
  I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill?
• 15:25
  And musical group Duende Libre
• 15:27
  tells us about the international influences
• 15:30
  they've picked up before they perform in Muncie.
• 15:34
  That's coming up.
• 15:36
  Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings
• 15:39
  wealth management and from you.
• 15:43
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 15:46
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 15:50
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 15:53
  So you are the reason local
• 15:56
  programing is still on IPR.
• 15:59
  Give today at Indiana Public radio.org.
• 16:06
  From IPR this is pop of culture.
• 16:09
  I’m Jen Blackmer. And I'm Michele Kinsey.
• 16:12
  Coming up later this hour we chat with jazz trio Duende Libre.
• 16:16
  They'll bring a long list of international influences to a performance in Muncie.
• 16:21
  But first, the Heart Folds Early is a new memoir by author Jill Christman.
• 16:27
  This is her fourth book.
• 16:28
  Jill, thanks for coming by the show to talk to us about your book.
• 16:32
  Jen I feel like it goes without saying that I am a huge pop of culture fan,
• 16:37
  and it is my pure delight.
• 16:40
  If you could see me, I'm sparkling with delight to be here today.
• 16:43
  She is to our radio listeners.
• 16:45
  We’re, we're so happy you could come by.
• 16:47
  And in the opening to the book, you say that you had been working on this book
• 16:52
  and that this book exists in and in a certain version,
• 16:56
  and then you put it away for three years.
• 16:59
  Why did you put it away?
• 17:01
  Yeah, it was around 2018 ish.
• 17:05
  I had an agent who was shopping around a version of this book—which
• 17:09
  has tried on so many outfits, it's like someone in a prom shop, right?
• 17:15
  And I would be lying if I told you if I could remember what version that was,
• 17:20
  but we, I had an agent at the time, and it was going around
• 17:22
  to some of the big houses, and the feedback we were getting
• 17:27
  was that the marketing folks
• 17:30
  didn't know how to talk about a book that took on the subject
• 17:36
  of a second trimester medical abortion,
• 17:39
  and I took that in.
• 17:43
  At one point, for example, there was a conversation
• 17:45
  about how they didn't know how they would
• 17:46
  position this book for sales at baby showers, for example.
• 17:50
  And I thought, that makes no sense to me.
• 17:53
  Other things I was hearing included, and I quote, motherhood has been played out.
• 17:57
  So to all of you fellow mothers, I was like.
• 18:00
  Has it really? Yes.
• 18:01
  That's news for any of you who came from a mother in some way.
• 18:07
  I don't think that that's true.
• 18:09
  But also, as an editor, I don't believe that any subject has been played out.
• 18:13
  Anyway, it started to seem really hard.
• 18:15
  I'm going to be really honest.
• 18:16
  It just started to seem really hard.
• 18:18
  And I thought to myself, is this the battle I want to fight?
• 18:22
  I thought, no writing is ever wasted.
• 18:25
  I worked really hard on this book.
• 18:26
  I learned a lot about myself and about the world from writing this book.
• 18:30
  I'm good and I'm out.
• 18:32
  Like, yeah, yeah, I was out and and then, as you
• 18:36
  said, as you in the in the prolog, I talk about it.
• 18:40
  The Dobbs decision came down in the summer of 2022.
• 18:45
  I remember where I was as I heard the news,
• 18:48
  and it would sound like hyperbole to tell you that
• 18:52
  I knew on that day that I would return to this manuscript and finish it.
• 18:57
  But I knew on that day I would return to this manuscript
• 18:59
  and finish it, because I knew I had the capacity to tell a story
• 19:04
  that I wasn't able to find that I desperately needed to hear, when I was
• 19:08
  going through the experiences of the book, and it was my job.
• 19:12
  So I did it.
• 19:13
  Right, right, and I think many of us remember where we were in that moment,
• 19:17
  because many truths that we thought,
• 19:22
  were, were a part of our existence changed.
• 19:26
  And and that happened very quickly, even though there was some anticipation
• 19:31
  that it may happen, there was a real difference when it did.
• 19:35
  Yes. Yes. Yeah.
• 19:37
  The refrain that, you keep coming back to
• 19:41
  and I think as it relates to the this moment in history,
• 19:46
  is that the choice you never thought
• 19:49
  you'd have to make is, is you never know what you'll do in that moment.
• 19:54
  Right.
• 19:54
  And that choosing something in theory, is not choosing.
• 20:00
  Yeah.
• 20:00
  And that sounds really simple.
• 20:02
  And I really wrote myself to that conclusion
• 20:06
  after years and years of trying to understand.
• 20:10
  And I think one thing that's so different about this book for me.
• 20:13
  And so for those of you working on your memoirs out there, I'm three memoirs in.
• 20:16
  So I feel like I am a bit of an expert on this.
• 20:18
  I've been doing this for 30 years.
• 20:19
  Yeah, I'd say so.
• 20:20
  I, and this is the advice I still give to my students who are on maybe,
• 20:24
  maybe for memoir number one, it's different,
• 20:26
  but I always say nobody gets to be in the room with you when you're working.
• 20:30
  Right there is,
• 20:32
  I once heard Cheryl Strayed say this, and it was hilarious and true.
• 20:36
  There is not a direct pipeline from your laptop to the New Yorker, right?
• 20:40
  You're safe.
• 20:41
  Okay, so tell your story the way you need to tell your story.
• 20:45
  Don't let your mother come in the room with you.
• 20:48
  Don't let your spouse come in the room with you. Don't.
• 20:50
  Don't let those who intimidate you in any way come into the room with you.
• 20:55
  Maybe even the people who love you. Everybody out right?
• 20:59
  With this book, it was completely different.
• 21:02
  I felt like this book was positioning me
• 21:06
  to be part of a conversation that we all need to have.
• 21:11
  And so I was like, Jen Blackmer, come into the room, right?
• 21:16
  Yeah. Mom, come on in.
• 21:19
  Right.
• 21:20
  My grown children, for whom I am always writing into a future
• 21:25
  where I might not even be, come into the room right.
• 21:29
  Also, those who have faced a similar devastating
• 21:32
  diagnosis as we did, mid pregnancy and have to make a decision.
• 21:37
  Those of you who made a different decision come into the room.
• 21:41
  I want you to be here more than anybody else. Right?
• 21:43
  I want this to be a conversation about
• 21:47
  what we do when we are faced
• 21:49
  with the reality of that situation,
• 21:52
  with every single permutation of circumstance present.
• 21:57
  Right.
• 21:57
  Like in our case, our baby was diagnosed with half a heart.
• 22:02
  He also had no aorta, right?
• 22:03
  The doctors told us his condition was incompatible with life
• 22:08
  and I didn't even know that was possible.
• 22:11
  Yeah, like I couldn't have told you how I would do this or I would do that
• 22:17
  because I didn't know that was possible.
• 22:21
  And then in the writing of the book, I realized, well,
• 22:23
  I would have told you that I would have done this.
• 22:25
  And I hear myself thinking, even now, and I can stop myself now.
• 22:28
  I think, well, I would do this.
• 22:29
  I was like, would you? Jill? Yeah.
• 22:32
  Like, how do you know? Like what?
• 22:34
  What if what if you didn't have other children?
• 22:36
  What if, you know, there are just so many? What if, what if, what if?
• 22:39
  And I just one day I was like, an imaginary choice is not a choice.
• 22:44
  An imaginary choice is a mind experiment, right?
• 22:48
  And the thought experiments that go on in, in places of power
• 22:53
  with the people who have the power to shape what those choices are,
• 22:59
  are often conducted in that singular mindset.
• 23:02
  Well, I would do fill in the blank and it's like you just there,
• 23:06
  you have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing.
• 23:09
  You have no way of knowing.
• 23:10
  And in fact, when I think about how I almost didn't finish this book right,
• 23:15
  and I almost did not allow myself
• 23:18
  to be part of that conversation, that's scary to me.
• 23:21
  Sure. Right. Because it almost worked.
• 23:23
  I was almost like, yeah, you're right, this is too hard.
• 23:26
  This is too scary.
• 23:28
  I'm just going to keep it to myself.
• 23:30
  And I have
• 23:33
  never met a secret or a silence
• 23:38
  that helped anybody except for those trying to control the narrative.
• 23:42
  Right? Right.
• 23:43
  You mentioned being invited in to the conversation,
• 23:47
  which is so powerful and it's so clear in the book,
• 23:52
  and I've known you for a long time, but there's something
• 23:57
  that is is really quite
• 24:00
  beautiful about the experience of feeling
• 24:03
  as though the person writing this book is talking directly to you.
• 24:08
  And that was my experience.
• 24:10
  It was almost like you were sitting next to me.
• 24:12
  And there's there's such an exquisite vulnerability to that.
• 24:16
  And how do you write from that place?
• 24:22
  Oh, that's a good question, Jen.
• 24:24
  I, I don't experience
• 24:28
  that as vulnerability as much as I used to.
• 24:32
  And I think it's partially comes from confidence.
• 24:36
  Right?
• 24:37
  I have practiced telling stories
• 24:40
  for many, many years. And
• 24:44
  and maybe I'm trying
• 24:45
  to make a theater analogy here, but I'm wondering, you know,
• 24:48
  like the first time you go on stage, you're probably more nervous, right?
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:51
  And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like,
• 24:57
  you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else.
• 24:59
  I could break down that fourth wall.
• 25:00
  I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right.
• 25:03
  So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me.
• 25:06
  But also
• 25:08
  with that experience has come my full understanding
• 25:13
  that writing is the safest place.
• 25:16
  I know. I know, to be.
• 25:17
  I never feel safer
• 25:21
  or more comfortable than when I'm trying to figure out
• 25:26
  how to shape a story in words and so sometimes people say to me,
• 25:33
  how was what was it like to go back to that scary place?
• 25:36
  Yeah, Right?
• 25:37
  Support for pop of culture comes from Stallings wealth management.
• 25:39
  Daniel Stallings, financial advisor, securities
• 25:42
  and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC member, FINRA,
• 25:46
  SIPC, a broker dealer and registered investment advisor.
• 25:49
  Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity.
• 25:53
  This week on pop culture,
• 25:54
  heartfelt conversations and heartfelt music.
• 25:58
  Author Jill Christman’s latest memoir is 20 years in the making.
• 26:03
  And I hear myself thinking that even now and I can stop myself now, I think, well,
• 26:06
  I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill?
• 26:09
  And musical group Duende Libre
• 26:12
  tells us about the international influences
• 26:14
  they've picked up before they perform in Muncie.
• 26:18
  That's coming up.
• 26:20
  Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings
• 26:23
  wealth management and from you.
• 26:27
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 26:30
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 26:34
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 26:37
  So you are the reason local
• 26:40
  programing is still on IPR.
• 26:43
  Give today at Indiana Public radio.org.
• 26:50
  From IPR this is pop of culture.
• 26:53
  I’m Jen Blackmer. And I'm Michele Kinsey.
• 26:56
  Coming up later this hour we chat with jazz trio Duende Libre.
• 27:00
  They'll bring a long list of international influences to a performance in Muncie.
• 27:05
  But first, the Heart Folds Early is a new memoir by author Jill Christman.
• 27:11
  This is her fourth book.
• 27:12
  Jill, thanks for coming by the show to talk to us about your book.
• 27:17
  Jen I feel like it goes without saying that I am a huge pop of culture fan,
• 27:21
  and it is my pure delight.
• 27:24
  If you could see me, I'm sparkling with delight to be here today.
• 27:27
  She is to our radio listeners.
• 27:29
  We’re, we're so happy you could come by.
• 27:31
  And in the opening to the book, you say that you had been working on this book
• 27:36
  and that this book exists in and in a certain version,
• 27:40
  and then you put it away for three years.
• 27:43
  Why did you put it away?
• 27:45
  Yeah, it was around 2018 ish.
• 27:49
  I had an agent who was shopping around a version of this book—which
• 27:53
  has tried on so many outfits, it's like someone in a prom shop, right?
• 27:59
  And I would be lying if I told you if I could remember what version that was,
• 28:04
  but we, I had an agent at the time, and it was going around
• 28:06
  to some of the big houses, and the feedback we were getting
• 28:11
  was that the marketing folks
• 28:14
  didn't know how to talk about a book that took on the subject
• 28:20
  of a second trimester medical abortion,
• 28:23
  and I took that in.
• 28:27
  At one point, for example, there was a conversation
• 28:29
  about how they didn't know how they would
• 28:30
  position this book for sales at baby showers, for example.
• 28:34
  And I thought, that makes no sense to me.
• 28:37
  Other things I was hearing included, and I quote, motherhood has been played out.
• 28:41
  So to all of you fellow mothers, I was like.
• 28:44
  Has it really? Yes.
• 28:45
  That's news for any of you who came from a mother in some way.
• 28:51
  I don't think that that's true.
• 28:53
  But also, as an editor, I don't believe that any subject has been played out.
• 28:57
  Anyway, it started to seem really hard.
• 28:59
  I'm going to be really honest.
• 29:01
  It just started to seem really hard.
• 29:02
  And I thought to myself, is this the battle I want to fight?
• 29:06
  I thought, no writing is ever wasted.
• 29:09
  I worked really hard on this book.
• 29:10
  I learned a lot about myself and about the world from writing this book.
• 29:14
  I'm good and I'm out.
• 29:16
  Like, yeah, yeah, I was out and and then, as you
• 29:20
  said, as you in the in the prolog, I talk about it.
• 29:24
  The Dobbs decision came down in the summer of 2022.
• 29:29
  I remember where I was as I heard the news,
• 29:32
  and it would sound like hyperbole to tell you that
• 29:36
  I knew on that day that I would return to this manuscript and finish it.
• 29:41
  But I knew on that day I would return to this manuscript
• 29:43
  and finish it, because I knew I had the capacity to tell a story
• 29:48
  that I wasn't able to find that I desperately needed to hear, when I was
• 29:52
  going through the experiences of the book, and it was my job.
• 29:56
  So I did it.
• 29:57
  Right, right, and I think many of us remember where we were in that moment,
• 30:01
  because many truths that we thought,
• 30:06
  were, were a part of our existence changed.
• 30:10
  And and that happened very quickly, even though there was some anticipation
• 30:15
  that it may happen, there was a real difference when it did.
• 30:19
  Yes. Yes. Yeah.
• 30:21
  The refrain that, you keep coming back to
• 30:25
  and I think as it relates to the this moment in history,
• 30:30
  is that the choice you never thought
• 30:33
  you'd have to make is, is you never know what you'll do in that moment.
• 30:38
  Right.
• 30:38
  And that choosing something in theory, is not choosing.
• 30:44
  Yeah.
• 30:44
  And that sounds really simple.
• 30:46
  And I really wrote myself to that conclusion
• 30:50
  after years and years of trying to understand.
• 30:54
  And I think one thing that's so different about this book for me.
• 30:57
  And so for those of you working on your memoirs out there, I'm three memoirs in.
• 31:00
  So I feel like I am a bit of an expert on this.
• 31:02
  I've been doing this for 30 years.
• 31:03
  Yeah, I'd say so.
• 31:04
  I, and this is the advice I still give to my students who are on maybe,
• 31:08
  maybe for memoir number one, it's different,
• 31:10
  but I always say nobody gets to be in the room with you when you're working.
• 31:14
  Right there is,
• 31:16
  I once heard Cheryl Strayed say this, and it was hilarious and true.
• 31:20
  There is not a direct pipeline from your laptop to the New Yorker, right?
• 31:24
  You're safe.
• 31:25
  Okay, so tell your story the way you need to tell your story.
• 31:29
  Don't let your mother come in the room with you.
• 31:32
  Don't let your spouse come in the room with you. Don't.
• 31:34
  Don't let those who intimidate you in any way come into the room with you.
• 31:39
  Maybe even the people who love you. Everybody out right?
• 31:44
  With this book, it was completely different.
• 31:46
  I felt like this book was positioning me
• 31:50
  to be part of a conversation that we all need to have.
• 31:55
  And so I was like, Jen Blackmer, come into the room, right?
• 32:00
  Yeah. Mom, come on in.
• 32:03
  Right.
• 32:04
  My grown children, for whom I am always writing into a future
• 32:09
  where I might not even be, come into the room right.
• 32:13
  Also, those who have faced a similar devastating
• 32:16
  diagnosis as we did, mid pregnancy and have to make a decision.
• 32:21
  Those of you who made a different decision come into the room.
• 32:25
  I want you to be here more than anybody else. Right?
• 32:28
  I want this to be a conversation about
• 32:31
  what we do when we are faced
• 32:33
  with the reality of that situation,
• 32:36
  with every single permutation of circumstance present.
• 32:41
  Right.
• 32:41
  Like in our case, our baby was diagnosed with half a heart.
• 32:46
  He also had no aorta, right?
• 32:48
  The doctors told us his condition was incompatible with life
• 32:52
  and I didn't even know that was possible.
• 32:56
  Yeah, like I couldn't have told you how I would do this or I would do that
• 33:01
  because I didn't know that was possible.
• 33:05
  And then in the writing of the book, I realized, well,
• 33:07
  I would have told you that I would have done this.
• 33:09
  And I hear myself thinking, even now, and I can stop myself now.
• 33:12
  I think, well, I would do this.
• 33:13
  I was like, would you? Jill? Yeah.
• 33:16
  Like, how do you know? Like what?
• 33:18
  What if what if you didn't have other children?
• 33:20
  What if, you know, there are just so many? What if, what if, what if?
• 33:23
  And I just one day I was like, an imaginary choice is not a choice.
• 33:28
  An imaginary choice is a mind experiment, right?
• 33:32
  And the thought experiments that go on in, in places of power
• 33:37
  with the people who have the power to shape what those choices are,
• 33:43
  are often conducted in that singular mindset.
• 33:46
  Well, I would do fill in the blank and it's like you just there,
• 33:50
  you have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing.
• 33:53
  You have no way of knowing.
• 33:54
  And in fact, when I think about how I almost didn't finish this book right,
• 33:59
  and I almost did not allow myself
• 34:02
  to be part of that conversation, that's scary to me.
• 34:05
  Sure. Right. Because it almost worked.
• 34:08
  I was almost like, yeah, you're right, this is too hard.
• 34:10
  This is too scary.
• 34:12
  I'm just going to keep it to myself.
• 34:14
  And I have
• 34:17
  never met a secret or a silence
• 34:22
  that helped anybody except for those trying to control the narrative.
• 34:26
  Right? Right.
• 34:27
  You mentioned being invited in to the conversation,
• 34:31
  which is so powerful and it's so clear in the book,
• 34:36
  and I've known you for a long time, but there's something
• 34:41
  that is is really quite
• 34:44
  beautiful about the experience of feeling
• 34:47
  as though the person writing this book is talking directly to you.
• 34:52
  And that was my experience.
• 34:54
  It was almost like you were sitting next to me.
• 34:56
  And there's there's such an exquisite vulnerability to that.
• 35:00
  And how do you write from that place?
• 35:06
  Oh, that's a good question, Jen.
• 35:08
  I, I don't experience
• 35:12
  that as vulnerability as much as I used to.
• 35:16
  And I think it's partially comes from confidence.
• 35:20
  Right?
• 35:21
  I have practiced telling stories
• 35:24
  for many, many years. And
• 35:28
  and maybe I'm trying
• 35:29
  to make a theater analogy here, but I'm wondering, you know,
• 35:32
  like the first time you go on stage, you're probably more nervous, right?
• 35:35
  Yeah.
• 35:36
  And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like,
• 35:41
  you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else.
• 35:43
  I could break down that fourth wall.
• 35:44
  I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right.
• 35:47
  So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me.
• 35:50
  But also
• 35:52
  with that experience has come my full understanding
• 35:57
  that writing is the safest place.
• 36:00
  I know. I know, to be.
• 36:01
  I never feel safer
• 36:05
  or more comfortable than when I'm trying to figure out
• 36:10
  how to shape a story in words and so sometimes people say to me,
• 36:17
  how was what was it like to go back to that scary place?
• 36:20
  Yeah, Right? Wasn't that awful?
• 36:24
  And I used to think, oh, yeah, that was scary and I guess so.
• 36:28
  But now I understand that when I go back, I go back with everything I am now.
• 36:33
  Everyone who loves me all the power I have accrued
• 36:37
  right through using language to shape and experience.
• 36:42
  And I can go back to a thing that was scary at the time.
• 36:47
  And now I can stop when I want.
• 36:48
  I can start when I want.
• 36:50
  I can figure out a metaphor that helps me to understand that thing better.
• 36:55
  So. So yeah, I think that maybe,
• 36:58
  vulnerability has come to mean actually a place of power.
• 37:04
  Yeah, I believe that.
• 37:05
  Yeah.
• 37:06
  And I think that the thing that you said about feeling
• 37:10
  like I was talking to you, that makes me so happy because I was.
• 37:14
  Yeah. Right.
• 37:15
  And that was the thing
• 37:19
  that felt so different to me in this book than anything else.
• 37:22
  I feel like other books I have written for myself, and that was good and right.
• 37:25
  And as it should be, and this one I was really trying to
• 37:31
  just have everybody come in and have that conversation with me.
• 37:34
  And every time I came up against something that I felt afraid
• 37:37
  to say or felt like, oh, so-and-so wouldn't like this.
• 37:41
  First of all,
• 37:42
  I have never been right about that in any of my previous books ever.
• 37:46
  Yeah. And if you talk to memoirists, they'll tell you this.
• 37:49
  They'll be like, oh, I was afraid
• 37:50
  my father would be angry about this, or I was afraid
• 37:52
  my mother would have her feelings hurt by this.
• 37:54
  Folks have been angry.
• 37:56
  Folks have had their feelings hurt.
• 37:58
  These things have happened.
• 37:59
  Although again, not as much as you would think.
• 38:00
  And I have never been right about what that thing would be.
• 38:03
  Never, ever.
• 38:05
  So I don't worry about that anymore, because what's the point?
• 38:07
  There's no point.
• 38:08
  Yeah.
• 38:09
  Well, and it goes, it goes to show that that you never can
• 38:12
  really know the thought processes of another human being.
• 38:15
  I mean, part of what we do as writers is we are reaching out.
• 38:19
  We are, you know, sending out signals and all of that to the people
• 38:23
  in hopes that they'll pick them up and we'll have that moment of connection.
• 38:26
  Right. And that happens.
• 38:28
  But sometimes the connection is not what we anticipate it to be almost always.
• 38:31
  Right? Yeah. It's the same thing, I guess.
• 38:33
  I guess it's the same thing as with the choices, right?
• 38:35
  That's a it's another kind of thought experiment, right?
• 38:38
  Like, oh, I know this is you.
• 38:39
  Yeah. Actually don't know.
• 38:40
  Yeah. You have to write it and see how people respond.
• 38:43
  And so nothing makes me happier.
• 38:46
  And I've been getting this feedback on this book a lot.
• 38:48
  It's a real page turner.
• 38:50
  Yeah. It's what people tell me. But they can't put it down.
• 38:52
  People are losing sleep now.
• 38:54
  I don't recommend at my age- Losing sleep is true because I.
• 38:58
  My reading time is before I go to bed at night,
• 39:01
  and I would start and pick it up and say, okay, I'm
• 39:02
  going to read this much or I'm going to read this one section.
• 39:04
  I would read this one chapter
• 39:05
  and then, you know, an hour and a half later I'm going to bed late.
• 39:09
  See, I am sorry about that.
• 39:11
  I'm glad, though, that it's compelling in that way. And
• 39:17
  the other thing that I, that,
• 39:18
  my publicists would want me to mention is that it's actually quite funny.
• 39:23
  So I know that we are talking about dark material, but another thing
• 39:27
  I was able to bring into this book, I think, where the fullness.
• 39:31
  Well, who am I kidding? I'm always funny.
• 39:33
  I have been in the past also, right?
• 39:37
  But even more so is
• 39:41
  I don't think.
• 39:44
  I think that when we can laugh, we need to laugh.
• 39:46
  And I think that when we are able to open a window and let in some light,
• 39:53
  we should take that opportunity to do that,
• 39:55
  because the tough stuff is always going to be there waiting for us.
• 39:59
  Right?
• 40:00
  The darker rooms are going to be there waiting for us,
• 40:03
  and when
• 40:04
  we can bring in that light in the air to help us navigate that tough stuff,
• 40:08
  it actually
• 40:09
  allows us to go to deeper places and then come up
• 40:11
  and see the light in there and then deal with what we need to deal with.
• 40:15
  And so I really let that into this book.
• 40:19
  And when I thought, oh, this is not a place to, you know,
• 40:23
  have the funny scene where my husband Mark comes into the room and sees me.
• 40:28
  Oh, you'll have to read the book to see how That’s right, it’s
• 40:31
  a really good scene.
• 40:33
  I was what I was about to describe,
• 40:37
  they were going to cut from the radio anyway.
• 40:38
  Yeah. Oh.
• 40:40
  So, and I and I, I let myself
• 40:44
  revise towards the strange, as I tell my students.
• 40:47
  So when I, in those moments when I was like, oh, is this too far?
• 40:50
  I was like, nah.
• 40:52
  Yeah. So yeah, well, and from the audience perspective.
• 40:54
  From the reader perspective, too.
• 40:55
  I think that juxtaposition of the light moments and the dark moments
• 41:00
  allows them to sort of be what they are, right?
• 41:03
  Because that's that's the lived experience.
• 41:05
  That's that is the way life,
• 41:08
  that's the way life is.
• 41:09
  And so to move from, from moments
• 41:13
  of, of light to dark is a skill we develop.
• 41:16
  I think, as we, as we age and and live.
• 41:19
  Yeah. Yeah. Completely. Yeah.
• 41:22
  I think from a structural point of view too, you were talking about when we were,
• 41:26
  talking about vulnerability.
• 41:28
  There's something in the reading of this that, that I noted,
• 41:33
  which is this jumping back and forth through time.
• 41:36
  Right.
• 41:37
  And it starts with it does start with a tragedy.
• 41:41
  It's an unexpected tragedy.
• 41:43
  I mean, if you know what the book is about, it's it's
• 41:46
  unusual that you go all the way back in time,
• 41:50
  really to the to the, to the death of your fiancée.
• 41:55
  Yeah, yeah.
• 41:56
  And, well, again, I don't want to spoil.
• 41:59
  There's a happy ending of the book there.
• 42:03
  I, I and he has a name.
• 42:06
  And I'm I'm not looking at that page
• 42:09
  now, but before, the baby that we that,
• 42:15
  we lost, we called him baby brother.
• 42:18
  And before baby brother,
• 42:22
  the defining tragedy of my life
• 42:25
  had been my fiancé Colin's death.
• 42:29
  In a car accident when he was 22 and I was 20.
• 42:33
  And I had done much work around that.
• 42:37
  And then when I was writing this book, I thought, oh,
• 42:42
  I don't need to tell that story again.
• 42:43
  I have told that story.
• 42:45
  I have plumbed to that grief.
• 42:48
  But of course, we as writers
• 42:51
  have these things we return to again and again.
• 42:54
  This is not a spoiler to say Jill Christman’s include love and grief.
• 42:59
  Yes. And fear.
• 43:01
  Yeah, that's kind of my trio.
• 43:03
  And I couldn't tell the story
• 43:07
  without telling the story of Colin's death because
• 43:13
  the knowledge
• 43:14
  that you could love, breathing in someone and they could go to work
• 43:19
  and never come back was one
• 43:22
  that I held on a cellular level, right?
• 43:25
  Like, I, I carry that fear.
• 43:28
  Believe me, my children could tell you they negotiate. Yes.
• 43:31
  They negotiate my awareness of the possibility of lost every day
• 43:36
  of their lives.
• 43:37
  And so that
• 43:40
  that I needed to return to that to tell this story.
• 43:43
  And also I found myself, you know, in a way,
• 43:47
  I think this is a happy thing about the book.
• 43:52
  Another thing I think it's about
• 43:53
  is the way we carry our beloveds with us.
• 43:59
  And, you know,
• 44:02
  we think about van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score.
• 44:05
  So we carry our trauma with us. Right.
• 44:07
  But we also carry our loves with us. Right.
• 44:11
  So I feel very physically
• 44:13
  that Colin has kind of come with me forward into my whole life.
• 44:17
  When the baby died, you know, I would,
• 44:21
  I would send my thoughts to him wherever he is and say.
• 44:28
  See, I can't even say it.
• 44:29
  Yeah, I would say, just in case you think making a choice does not mean we
• 44:34
  we don't grieve, right.
• 44:35
  I and or that grief is a thing that ends.
• 44:38
  I would say, you know, please keep him warm.
• 44:40
  Keep him safe. Yeah.
• 44:43
  And so he's just always with me.
• 44:47
  And then I also learned in the process of writing this book that
• 44:51
  on a cellular level, we,
• 44:54
  when we're pregnant, fetal cells cross the placenta.
• 45:00
  That's right.
• 45:00
  They do into our bodies.
• 45:02
  And so every pregnancy we've ever carried,
• 45:07
  whether or not it results in a live birth means that we are carrying
• 45:11
  the cells of those children in our bodies, for a long time, Which is beautiful.
• 45:17
  Which is beautiful. Right.
• 45:18
  As our children get older, too.
• 45:20
  Yeah. You.
• 45:21
  Know, like, I got you, like, I actually got you.
• 45:25
  Like literally, I got you.
• 45:26
  Yeah.
• 45:27
  So, like this, I this is a great comfort to me.
• 45:30
  This idea that that we will lose it.
• 45:36
  It's.
• 45:37
  I don't know how we move through our lives all the time.
• 45:39
  I'm just looking at both of your faces right now.
• 45:40
  Like every day we have to move through life
• 45:42
  knowing that those we love most will die someday, right?
• 45:47
  We might be here for that.
• 45:48
  We might not be here for that.
• 45:49
  But this is like the human condition of course. Right.
• 45:52
  And we're always navigating it.
• 45:53
  And so to kind of in this book talk about
• 45:59
  those who I love.
• 46:00
  And I think at the bottom of everything I do, what I want
• 46:04
  most is still to be able to show up in a day or on the page
• 46:08
  full of love.
• 46:10
  Yeah. Right. Like I want that.
• 46:12
  And I felt like I had the opportunity in telling the story
• 46:18
  and spending so much time shaping it to just come to this full realization
• 46:22
  that I carry them all with me into every day, into this room, into this,
• 46:25
  into this conversation right there, always with me.
• 46:29
  And that's a joy.
• 46:31
  And speaking of joy,
• 46:33
  Jill, what a pleasure it's been to talk with you in studio today.
• 46:38
  Jill Christman is the author of four books.
• 46:41
  Her latest, The Heart Folds Early, was published on
• 46:46
  March 1st.
• 47:01
  Hey, it's pop of culture.
• 47:02
  I’m Jen Blackmer.
• 47:04
  and I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 47:06
  Duende Libre is an award winning Seattle jazz trio whose original music combines
• 47:11
  jazz virtuosity with roots and rhythms from Cuba, Brazil
• 47:15
  and West Africa into a strikingly authentic blend.
• 47:20
  The trio will perform April 23rd at Ball State University's Pruis Hall,
• 47:24
  but we've got band leader Alex Chadsey with us right now.
• 47:28
  Thank you for joining us on Pop of Culture.
• 47:31
  Alex.
• 47:32
  Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here.
• 47:34
  Thanks for having me.
• 47:35
  Absolutely.
• 47:36
  You are on keys with the band, right?
• 47:39
  Tell me about That’s correct.
• 47:40
  Tell me about your other band mates.
• 47:42
  The rest of the trio who rounds it out for you.
• 47:46
  So we've got Farko Dosumov on the electric bass
• 47:50
  and Jeff Bush playing
• 47:53
  drums and a wide array of hand percussion instruments
• 47:58
  ranging from bells and shakers to,
• 48:01
  an instrument that some of your listeners may be familiar with called
• 48:05
  the berimbau, which, originally has its origins, its roots in Africa.
• 48:11
  But most of us here in the US are familiar with it,
• 48:15
  by way of Brazilian and in particular Brazilian capoeira,
• 48:19
  Brazilian Afro-Brazilian, martial art form.
• 48:24
  So listeners have probably
• 48:26
  already figured out that this trio, performs
• 48:30
  a lot of globally inspired jazz with a lot of dimension,
• 48:34
  and your music draws heavily from areas all over the world.
• 48:39
  How did this Duende Libre approach to music happen?
• 48:45
  Well, I can tell you that
• 48:47
  it wasn't anything that we sort of sat down or, you know, woke up one day
• 48:52
  and decided, okay, let's create a,
• 48:56
  you know, a band that combines jazz with,
• 49:00
  elements of, rhythms
• 49:03
  from Cuba, Brazil and the Mediterranean, West Africa.
• 49:07
  It was something that was a very natural process that just sort of unfolded,
• 49:12
  by nature of our eclectic tastes, I guess you could say.
• 49:19
  But also our experiences, you know, so
• 49:24
  Jeff lived in Brazil for about
• 49:27
  six months and studied with master Brazilian musicians
• 49:31
  when he was actually an art student in the UK.
• 49:35
  And, I have traveled to Cuba
• 49:39
  multiple times and studied with, master musicians there.
• 49:43
  In fact, I was very fortunate to meet Chucho Valdes.
• 49:47
  I even had a lesson with the great Chucho Valdez in his home.
• 49:50
  But actually, fell for us when I moved to Seattle.
• 49:56
  I was very fortunate to,
• 49:59
  Seattle at the time had a great, still does.
• 50:02
  But, there was there was a lot of gigs
• 50:05
  that were popping up, with salsa bands.
• 50:09
  And so I, you know, started playing with these, these bands
• 50:13
  and, and learning about the music and, and just really fell in love with it.
• 50:18
  And that kind of set me down this path of really immersing myself
• 50:24
  in, in Afro Latin music,
• 50:27
  music of the African diaspora in particular in the Caribbean.
• 50:31
  And it was really, transformative
• 50:34
  experience for me, you know, through those experiences.
• 50:37
  I mean, of course, the music is what drew me in.
• 50:40
  But then I learned, with these folks, sort of,
• 50:44
  helped me redefine what music means to me.
• 50:48
  Yeah.
• 50:48
  And, you know, and, and I came to understand
• 50:52
  that music is, is really about communication.
• 50:56
  It's about connection.
• 50:57
  You know, that was sort of like a ten year period in mostly in Seattle.
• 51:02
  But I did travel around as well.
• 51:04
  And then at some point, you know, the time came
• 51:07
  where I felt like, okay, now I want to
• 51:11
  sort of try
• 51:11
  to give back somehow, or at least,
• 51:15
  express some of these lessons that I've learned.
• 51:18
  And, and also, you know,
• 51:21
  some of the how these traditions have impacted me.
• 51:24
  And so that's when I formed this band, and I immediately knew
• 51:28
  that Jeff and Sako were the guys who I wanted in my band.
• 51:32
  Oh, I mean, how amazing is that, that you find two other
• 51:36
  individuals that are just as passionate
• 51:39
  about all different kinds of music and inspiration
• 51:44
  was definitely something that came to mind when I was listening
• 51:47
  to the latest album, invocation, that was released late last year.
• 51:52
  I mean, the album is all over the place, like in a great way, like in the best way.
• 51:58
  I mean, it's Latin, it's funk, it's it's super, super fun.
• 52:01
  But it also includes, like you said, those moments of of inspiration and
• 52:06
  kind of shout outs to, to those artists that have meant so much to you.
• 52:11
  Can you talk a little bit about Chick Corea and how the track chick came about?
• 52:16
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:17
  That that tune was written probably in the space of like an hour or something.
• 52:23
  Right after I,
• 52:26
  a friend of mine texted me at, and shared the news.
• 52:29
  That Chick, when Chick passed away, I believe that was in 2021.
• 52:33
  And it really, hit me
• 52:37
  sort of in an unexpectedly big way.
• 52:43
  You know, it was one of those things where I don't think I fully appreciated,
• 52:48
  Chick’ss influence
• 52:51
  and impact on me until I found out that he had suddenly passed,
• 52:57
  you know, but I always tell people that
• 52:59
  with that, there would be no when they leave without Chick Corea.
• 53:03
  Because for me, Chick, he was a he certainly wasn't the only jazz
• 53:08
  great to do this.
• 53:10
  But he was open and articulate
• 53:14
  to making those connections
• 53:19
  between jazz and
• 53:21
  music from other parts of the world.
• 53:24
  And of course, that's nothing new in in jazz.
• 53:28
  So that in my mind, there's always been this conversation
• 53:34
  between American jazz and music from the Caribbean, music from,
• 53:40
  you know, throughout the Americas,
• 53:43
  music from Africa, music from all over.
• 53:47
  But, you know, artists like Chick Corea have really sort of
• 53:51
  championed it in a way that was a huge inspiration on me.
• 53:54
  Yeah.
• 53:55
  Do you see it as kind of continuing to carry that torch?
• 54:00
  And is there a lot of pressure that comes with that when you're trying to pay
• 54:03
  tribute to.
• 54:04
  Those are huge, huge shoes to fill.
• 54:07
  But yeah. So I mean, in our own way, of course, you know.
• 54:10
  Yeah, we're we're trying to do our part what we can and it's
• 54:14
  it's yeah, it's certainly an opportunity.
• 54:17
  You know, because sometimes we get to travel to some communities
• 54:22
  where some of where, you know, folks have never seen a berimbau before, you know.
• 54:26
  Wow. And there's, there's always like a,
• 54:32
  a small crowd.
• 54:33
  And I would anticipate this will also be the case,
• 54:37
  at Ball State on, on April 23rd, where there's often like a crowd of people
• 54:42
  around Jeff, you know, on the intermission or after the show or just
• 54:47
  want to see what you know, what you know, because it looks it
• 54:50
  kind of looks like a bow and arrow. Yes.
• 54:52
  And and it makes this really, it's a I mean, he, for the folks
• 54:57
  who are listening, who may not know what a berimbau is, there's sort of like a,
• 55:03
  a metal wire on a stick that, and then there's,
• 55:07
  like a gourd resonator at the bottom that sort of amplifies the sound.
• 55:11
  And then Jeff, essentially strikes the wire.
• 55:16
  So it just makes this really interesting sound.
• 55:19
  And in Afro-Brazilian culture, I believe the, the, the, the belief
• 55:26
  is that the beat and bow is sort of used to communicate with the ancestors.
• 55:30
  Oh, wow.
• 55:30
  So, so it's it has a very, important
• 55:35
  spiritual significance in that tradition.
• 55:38
  And, and anyhow, it's,
• 55:40
  it's the instruments and of course the rhythms and all of these things,
• 55:44
  they're just great opportunity for us to talk about where these instruments
• 55:50
  and these rhythms come from, and also how we were introduced to them.
• 55:55
  Because all of this, we were, learned by apprenticing
• 56:00
  with masters from these, these traditions.
• 56:06
  Absolutely.
• 56:06
  Well, you'll
• 56:07
  you will be sharing that with, Muncie community audience very, very soon.
• 56:13
  For those who may be hearing the trio
• 56:16
  for the first time, kind of, could you describe the experience?
• 56:20
  What do you want people to get out of the show?
• 56:25
  We want to lift people up.
• 56:27
  Yeah.
• 56:27
  You know, essentially, I mean, you know, this
• 56:31
  a lot of this music, a lot of these traditions
• 56:35
  are, as I mentioned, they're from the African diaspora.
• 56:39
  And in particular the Caribbean, Brazil.
• 56:44
  And of course, as we know from history,
• 56:50
  the Africans that came to the New World did not come here voluntarily.
• 56:54
  Right. And it was.
• 56:56
  And it was a pretty horrific history in a lot of ways.
• 57:00
  And yet it was music
• 57:02
  and culture that helped folks survive.
• 57:06
  And so this which is just to say that this music
• 57:10
  is resilient, you know, there's there's resilience like that
• 57:13
  is sort of embedded in these rhythms that's embedded in these traditions.
• 57:18
  And I think, resilience is something that we all need right now.
• 57:23
  Oh, yeah.
• 57:24
  You know, because we're all I mean, everyone is sort of going through it.
• 57:27
  And in one way or another, you know, in our, in our,
• 57:32
  our stories may not look the same and our contexts may be different, but,
• 57:36
  you know, it's it's not an easy, time
• 57:40
  for our species on the planet, right?
• 57:44
  Yeah.
• 57:45
  So I think, we're just hoping that whatever,
• 57:49
  you know, that this will help folks,
• 57:51
  you know, feel recharged, feel refreshed and ready to,
• 57:55
  you know, engage, wholeheartedly with, with their lives
• 58:00
  and with the things they care about and the people that care about.
• 58:03
  Yeah.
• 58:03
  And I would also say just, you know, having those moments of collective
• 58:08
  joy are super important, too, right?
• 58:11
  Absolutely.
• 58:12
  Let's end our conversation talking about the word duende.
• 58:16
  It has a really beautiful meaning, right?
• 58:19
  Spirit, soul, a kind of emotional intensity in art.
• 58:25
  What does duende mean to you
• 58:27
  when you are on stage performing?
• 58:32
  That's a great question.
• 58:33
  No one's ever asked me that. Yeah.
• 58:35
  You know, it's trying to tap into.
• 58:40
  Yeah.
• 58:40
  Well, the duende, as you mentioned it, it comes from,
• 58:43
  Gaetano culture in the, you know, from the Iberian
• 58:48
  Peninsula was famously associated with flamenco music.
• 58:52
  And it's as you mentioned, it's sort of like this, almost,
• 58:57
  primordial kind of spirit.
• 59:01
  very grounded, like in the Earth and as opposed to,
• 59:04
  like, the angel and the muse that are more kind of transcendental.
• 59:08
  And it it's it's me and it's the trio.
• 59:11
  Right.
• 59:11
  So if we're we're trying to really listen, we're trying to create
• 59:16
  a communion or conversation on stage that then we hope will,
• 59:20
  radiate out and bring in the audience.
• 59:23
  Right?
• 59:23
  So that, like you were saying, it's that moment of
• 59:27
  of joy, or you know, you could say catharsis.
• 59:32
  That, that,
• 59:33
  can be experienced in a live performance.
• 59:36
  And I think it's one of the things that's actually really unique
• 59:39
  about live performance that is, it's hard to replicate that.
• 59:45
  I mean, of course, recordings are great.
• 59:48
  And you can, you know, experience that on some level through a recording.
• 59:53
  But I think just being in the same room, you know, with the audience,
• 59:56
  with the musicians on stage, it's it's a shared experience that,
• 1:00:02
  that that is really, I think one of the great joys of,
• 1:00:07
  of life and, and part of our birthright is as human beings.
• 1:00:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:00:12
  Well, this conversation has definitely been a moment of joy for mem, Alex.
• 1:00:16
  Thank you so much Me, too! for taking the time.
• 1:00:19
  I really look forward to seeing the group April 23rd at Pruis Hall.
• 1:00:24
  Again, thank you so much for joining me on pop culture.
• 1:00:28
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:00:28
  Thank you for the invitation. It's been my pleasure.
• 1:00:38
  Dunde Libre
• 1:00:39
  will make a rare Midwestern appearance at Pruis Hall on Thursday, April 23rd.
• 1:00:45
  Our podcast, on the other hand, appears weekly.
• 1:00:48
  Find Pop of Culture on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, the NPR app,
• 1:00:52
  or at Indiana Public Radio.
• 1:00:54
  Dot org.
• 1:00:57
  Do do do do do do do.
• 1:01:12
  You're listening to Pop of Culture.
• 1:01:14
  I'm Jen Blackmer.
• 1:01:15
  I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 1:01:17
  And I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 1:01:19
  We are here with the Muncie Arts and Culture Council to talk about art
• 1:01:22
  for the people, a weekend long celebration of public art.
• 1:01:25
  Tania Said is the council's executive director.
• 1:01:28
  Kim Miller is president of the board.
• 1:01:30
  Welcome. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having us.
• 1:01:33
  First of all,
• 1:01:34
  can you give us an overview of what the weekend will have for the public?
• 1:01:38
  Well, the great news is that because we finished so many wonderful
• 1:01:42
  works of public art in 2025, we are going to have
• 1:01:45
  six celebrations and feature two others that we have.
• 1:01:49
  So eight in all over the course of Friday, April 24th and Saturday, April 25th.
• 1:01:55
  And I know that the work was paid for with, federal Covid 19 federal funds.
• 1:02:01
  How excited are you that, the community decided that that's
• 1:02:05
  what we wanted to do with some of those federal funds.
• 1:02:07
  It was a really great opportunity for Muncie arts and culture
• 1:02:11
  to listen to the community and see what they really wanted.
• 1:02:15
  So it's been really great
• 1:02:16
  to see the projects now coming to life and people talking about them
• 1:02:21
  and just seeing how excited the entire community
• 1:02:23
  has been to see these things happening in their community.
• 1:02:27
  I want to describe a few of the pieces,
• 1:02:30
  but first of all, could you talk about the intention of public art?
• 1:02:33
  Public art is different from, say, a painting, on a wall, in a museum.
• 1:02:37
  What's kind of the role of public art in Muncie?
• 1:02:39
  I think it's been changing, and I think that's really important to note.
• 1:02:43
  So we have a wonderful history in Muncie that has featured artists
• 1:02:48
  and public art throughout the city, and that has been really valuable.
• 1:02:54
  And it's been helpful for memorializing
• 1:02:57
  people and celebrations or different moments.
• 1:03:00
  But it's also been a very historical, traditional kind of approach.
• 1:03:04
  And what we're looking at now is something that is more contemporary,
• 1:03:08
  more representative of who we are and where we are,
• 1:03:12
  and what I think is most valuable is, representing the voices,
• 1:03:16
  because there has been so much community
• 1:03:18
  participation and all of those works of art.
• 1:03:20
  With this funding, we've been able to change it so it's more forward looking.
• 1:03:25
  The thing I love about public art is that it is free and accessible all the time.
• 1:03:30
  Doesn't matter day or night. There's no admission.
• 1:03:32
  There's no quote free day that, like so many institutions, have to have
• 1:03:35
  to ensure that they're accessible because it's always accessible.
• 1:03:39
  Speaking of that, are all the eight artworks that you're talking about?
• 1:03:43
  Are they all permanent installations or are some of them temporary?
• 1:03:46
  With this, plan, we have to have everything out for at least ten years.
• 1:03:52
  So the sculptures obviously will probably be much longer lived.
• 1:03:55
  And then hopefully with the murals, you know, they have a long, healthy life.
• 1:03:59
  The Muncie Arts and Culture Council will, upon completion, continue
• 1:04:04
  to own those works of art and that each one of these sites
• 1:04:07
  has in effect borrowed it or,
• 1:04:09
  it's on loan, so to speak, from the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 1:04:13
  And so together, we are responsible for maintaining it
• 1:04:16
  and ensuring that it's publicly available for years to come.
• 1:04:20
  Oh, excellent.
• 1:04:21
  Could you maybe pick one of the pieces and describe them for people?
• 1:04:25
  Since this is radio, as kind of a preview of
• 1:04:27
  this is what you could see for the weekend.
• 1:04:29
  The one at eighth and Hoyt is called Habitat Haven.
• 1:04:33
  It's at the corner across from the Common Market
• 1:04:36
  and across from the Addiction Prevention Center.
• 1:04:40
  And so imagine you're driving northeast on Hoyt, and you see these red,
• 1:04:47
  yellow and blue, pie segments
• 1:04:50
  that are situated in this small park.
• 1:04:54
  In addition to that, you see a swinging bench.
• 1:04:57
  You see some cement benches, places to sit, places to gather.
• 1:05:01
  And on this far wall, attached to the habitat for humanity
• 1:05:05
  headquarters are these different sign cutouts as well.
• 1:05:09
  So you start to get a feeling that there's a kind of momentum around this location.
• 1:05:14
  It's brightly colored.
• 1:05:15
  It has this sort of pie circular motif, and it feels like
• 1:05:18
  it has some action associated with it.
• 1:05:22
  And that's a reference to the gears and the automotive history of our area
• 1:05:27
  as well.
• 1:05:28
  The artist, Greg Mueller, really took time to consider how this could be
• 1:05:33
  the kind of, reflective, welcoming place
• 1:05:36
  that would be appealing to people both in the Thomas
• 1:05:40
  Park Avondale neighborhood and the South Central neighborhood.
• 1:05:43
  And anyone who visits from all over Muncie, Delaware County and beyond.
• 1:05:48
  Wonderful.
• 1:05:49
  Do you have one that, that you like?
• 1:05:51
  Kind of love them all, but, one that I really hope
• 1:05:55
  a lot of people come out and see is, the mural at Art rise.
• 1:06:00
  One of the reasons is one, it's very beautiful,
• 1:06:02
  but it also has a lot of connections to, our community as well
• 1:06:06
  that people may not realize.
• 1:06:07
  So, like the wall, you can really publicly see if you're on,
• 1:06:12
  Martin Luther King Jr.
• 1:06:13
  There's a lot of willow trees and the reasoning
• 1:06:15
  they're on there, they’re a callback to the willows
• 1:06:18
  that have been planted by the community down by the river.
• 1:06:21
  And so that's a really neat connection.
• 1:06:23
  But what's kind of hidden that a lot of people
• 1:06:25
  probably don't know about is on the very back side,
• 1:06:27
  there's a very beautiful,
• 1:06:29
  mural of two women looking at each other, one younger and one older.
• 1:06:32
  And they're so well done.
• 1:06:34
  And it's just really beautiful to reflect back on.
• 1:06:37
  I was reading the schedule for the weekend, and there are family
• 1:06:40
  friendly events, there's live music, there is light food.
• 1:06:43
  It feels like a moving neighborhood block party through the weekend.
• 1:06:47
  Was that intentional?
• 1:06:48
  Yeah.
• 1:06:49
  I'm so glad you said that,
• 1:06:50
  because, the idea is that there's something for everyone.
• 1:06:54
  You can do as much or as little as you would like.
• 1:06:56
  And I almost think of it like, what is that
• 1:06:59
  called, those kind of, gourmet feast, kind of Galloping Gourmet.
• 1:07:03
  What are those, like Progressive dinners?
• 1:07:06
  Progressive dinners, yes. It has a little bit of that feel.
• 1:07:08
  And in fact, there will be refreshments served at almost every location.
• 1:07:12
  So if you wanted to do it that way, you really could between,
• 1:07:15
  donuts, brunch, lunch and snacks everywhere it seems.
• 1:07:19
  But it is supposed to also kind of build so that you feel by the end
• 1:07:25
  that in effect, you've seen kind of an exhibition across the city.
• 1:07:29
  Wonderful.
• 1:07:30
  The schedule shows you've also added a live music
• 1:07:33
  show on Friday night to benefit Muncie Arts, who's playing?
• 1:07:36
  On Friday, April 24th at The Room five Piano Bar.
• 1:07:40
  We have a benefit concert that is going to be done.
• 1:07:44
  And, Mike Martin of the Common Market, whose businesses across from the habitat
• 1:07:49
  Haven that I mentioned at eighth and Hoyt, he suggested this 50/50 concert
• 1:07:53
  to support the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 1:07:56
  So in addition to Mike Martin and The Beautiful Mess, we also have Doc
• 1:08:00
  and the Little Chicago band and, a singer songwriter named Brandon Rodriguez.
• 1:08:06
  So the event is 21 plus.
• 1:08:08
  Everything else is very family friendly, but we encourage people to come
• 1:08:11
  to this 50/50 benefit concert and enjoy live music.
• 1:08:16
  And I think that's going to be a fantastic complement to the range of public
• 1:08:20
  art that we have across the city,
• 1:08:21
  because, you know, the Muncie Arts and Culture Council is about all the arts.
• 1:08:24
  And so to have this performing art,
• 1:08:26
  musical aspect to it just helps round out the whole weekend.
• 1:08:30
  And I also saw on the schedule for those who maybe aren't
• 1:08:33
  21, families, that there's going to be live jazz at one event and,
• 1:08:36
  there's going to be another local, singer songwriter at an event on Saturday.
• 1:08:41
  I like the interplay of of music
• 1:08:44
  and public art, so there's something visual, but something auditory as well.
• 1:08:48
  Yes, it feels like a party.
• 1:08:49
  Whenever you have music, there's a celebration.
• 1:08:51
  We want people to know that, this is not your, static art experience.
• 1:08:57
  This is live. This is energetic.
• 1:08:59
  This is about people and all this public art together.
• 1:09:03
  So for the weekend, where can
• 1:09:04
  people find the full schedule of events and all the details?
• 1:09:07
  So the best place to go is Muncie Arts dot org slash art for the people.
• 1:09:12
  We have a complete page devoted to the entire weekend's events,
• 1:09:17
  and you can also see snippets about each artist.
• 1:09:21
  Wonderful.
• 1:09:22
  Tania and Kim, thank you so much for bringing us art for the people.
• 1:09:25
  Thank you.
• 1:09:26
  Thank you for having us.
• 1:09:28
  I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 1:09:29
  Want more arts calendar?
• 1:09:30
  Now over to Michelle and Jen.
• 1:09:33
  Michelle, I think we're off to see the arts calendar.
• 1:09:36
  Oh, we are indeed.
• 1:09:38
  Indeed.
• 1:09:38
  We're going to follow the yellow brick road, first of all.
• 1:09:41
  First of all, to Andersen's mainstage theater for The Wizard of Oz,
• 1:09:45
  taking the stage Friday, April 17th through April 26th.
• 1:09:49
  Join Dorothy on her journey with the Scarecrow, Tin Man,
• 1:09:53
  and Lion to Emerald City.
• 1:09:55
  MainstageTheatre.org has the details.
• 1:09:58
  The fifth Annual Muncie Comic Con is Saturday, April 18th
• 1:10:03
  at the Delaware County Fairgrounds.
• 1:10:04
  The event features comic creators, cosplay contests, and more.
• 1:10:08
  Meet industry pros and celebrate
• 1:10:10
  your favorite comics in a fun, family friendly atmosphere.
• 1:10:14
  This year includes a children's area, a larger artist alley,
• 1:10:18
  and even additional vendors. More...
• 1:10:20
  Muncie Comic Con dot com say that three times fast.
• 1:10:25
  How about that, yeah. has more details And it's growing.
• 1:10:27
  Comic con is growing and it's great to see.
• 1:10:30
  Ball State's Department of Theatre and Dance will present the 25th Annual Putnam
• 1:10:34
  County Spelling Bee, now through April 25th, at the Oakwood Building near campus.
• 1:10:40
  An oddball crew of middle schoolers gather for the annual Putnam
• 1:10:43
  County Spelling Bee, where the words are tough,
• 1:10:45
  the competition is tougher, and the emotions run hilariously high.
• 1:10:50
  Bsu.edu/theatre is the place to go for more info.
• 1:10:55
  And real quick about that. Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  The Oakwood Building is a nontraditional space when it's actually in the gym
• 1:11:01
  in that old school.
• 1:11:02
  So it's going to be fun.
• 1:11:03
  And yeah, very appropriate for this show.
• 1:11:06
  And just so you know, to kind of orient
• 1:11:07
  yourself, it is next to Northside Middle School.
• 1:11:11
  Right, on Oakwood.
• 1:11:13
  Locked Groove Records will have a Record Store Day celebration
• 1:11:17
  Saturday, April 18th at the store located in the Ball State Village.
• 1:11:21
  The event will include special vinyl releases
• 1:11:23
  and reissues, live music, tasty beverages, and more.
• 1:11:27
  The event is from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
• 1:11:30
  And Monkey Jack's Emporium
• 1:11:31
  in New Castle will also celebrate Record Store Day on April 18th.
• 1:11:35
  The event will be 8 a.m.
• 1:11:36
  to 6 p.m.
• 1:11:37
  and will feature Record Store Day releases and more.
• 1:11:40
  Be sure to check your favorite record store for other events.
• 1:11:43
  And your favorite tasty beverages.
• 1:11:46
  The exhibit America at 250
• 1:11:49
  Reflections on Community, is on display at Minnetrista Museum and Gardens.
• 1:11:54
  It's a celebration of America's 250th birthday through Community Voices,
• 1:11:58
  an exploration of citizenship, belonging and identity.
• 1:12:02
  This interactive gallery
• 1:12:03
  invites visitors to consider what it means to be an American,
• 1:12:07
  and how diverse perspectives come together to form a vibrant community.
• 1:12:12
  The Anderson Museum of Art's annual
• 1:12:14
  InFocus exhibition is on display now.
• 1:12:17
  This juried photography exhibition features the work of Hoosier
• 1:12:20
  photographers in the categories of people, nature, wildlife,
• 1:12:24
  architecture, film, digital manipulation, and an open category.
• 1:12:29
  More than 100 photos are on display.
• 1:12:33
  The Del McCoury band will perform Friday, April
• 1:12:36
  17th at the Paramount Theater in Anderson.
• 1:12:39
  Del McCoury is bluegrass, performing from the Grand
• 1:12:42
  Old Opry to sold out festivals, including his own Del Fest.
• 1:12:46
  The music begins at 7:30 p.m..
• 1:12:49
  The Ball State Jazz Ensembles will perform a salute to video
• 1:12:53
  game music, Wednesday, April 22nd at Sursa Performance Hall.
• 1:12:57
  The sonic sounds begin at 7:30 p.m..
• 1:13:00
  Tell us about your sonic sounds or any other artsy events
• 1:13:04
  at Indiana Public radio.org/contact.
• 1:13:08
  Then click. Pop of culture.
• 1:13:15
  Support for pop of
• 1:13:16
  culture comes from Stallings wealth management and from you.
• 1:13:22
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 1:13:25
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 1:13:29
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 1:13:33
  So you are the reason local programing is still on IPR.
• 1:13:38
  Give today at Indiana Public Radio dot org.
• 1:13:43
  And that's our show.
• 1:13:44
  Our art director is Tracie Louck.
• 1:13:47
  This week was produced by Luke Jones, whose
• 1:13:49
  superpower is making us sound great every week.
• 1:13:53
  We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon.
• 1:13:58
  Our audio fellow is Maya Doss, and our show was hosted by me, Jen Blackmer.
• 1:14:02
  And me, Michelle Kinsey.
• 1:14:04
  Pop of culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball
• 1:14:08
  State University.
• 1:14:12
  [Blooper] Okay.
• 1:14:13
  Yep. We are.
• 1:14:15
  I'm testing right now to make sure we're recording.
• 1:14:20
  Yup. It
• 1:14:20
  looks like the Steph do you see like the middle one isn't coming up, though.
• 1:14:24
  Is that okay? because Alex isn't talking.
• 1:14:26
  Alex, could you say something real quick?
• 1:14:27
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:14:28
  Oh hello check check one two Yeah. Yep. All righty.
• 1:14:30
  Wasn't that awful?
• 1:14:33
  And I used to think, oh, yeah, that was scary and I guess so.
• 1:14:37
  But now I understand that when I go back, I go back with everything I am now.
• 1:14:43
  Everyone who loves me all the power I have accrued
• 1:14:47
  right through using language to shape and experience.
• 1:14:51
  And I can go back to a thing that was scary at the time.
• 1:14:56
  And now I can stop when I want.
• 1:14:58
  I can start when I want.
• 1:14:59
  I can figure out a metaphor that helps me to understand that thing better.
• 1:15:04
  So. So yeah, I think that maybe,
• 1:15:08
  vulnerability has come to mean actually a place of power.
• 1:15:14
  Yeah, I believe that.
• 1:15:15
  Yeah.
• 1:15:16
  And I think that the thing that you said about feeling
• 1:15:20
  like I was talking to you, that makes me so happy because I was.
• 1:15:24
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:15:25
  And that was the thing
• 1:15:28
  that felt so different to me in this book than anything else.
• 1:15:31
  I feel like other books I have written for myself, and that was good and right.
• 1:15:35
  And as it should be, and this one I was really trying to
• 1:15:41
  just have everybody come in and have that conversation with me.
• 1:15:44
  And every time I came up against something that I felt afraid
• 1:15:47
  to say or felt like, oh, so-and-so wouldn't like this.
• 1:15:50
  First of all,
• 1:15:52
  I have never been right about that in any of my previous books ever.
• 1:15:56
  Yeah. And if you talk to memoirists, they'll tell you this.
• 1:15:58
  They'll be like, oh, I was afraid
• 1:15:59
  my father would be angry about this, or I was afraid
• 1:16:01
  my mother would have her feelings hurt by this.
• 1:16:04
  Folks have been angry.
• 1:16:05
  Folks have had their feelings hurt.
• 1:16:07
  These things have happened.
• 1:16:08
  Although again, not as much as you would think.
• 1:16:10
  And I have never been right about what that thing would be.
• 1:16:13
  Never, ever.
• 1:16:14
  So I don't worry about that anymore, because what's the point?
• 1:16:16
  There's no point.
• 1:16:17
  Yeah.
• 1:16:18
  Well, and it goes, it goes to show that that you never can
• 1:16:21
  really know the thought processes of another human being.
• 1:16:25
  I mean, part of what we do as writers is we are reaching out.
• 1:16:28
  We are, you know, sending out signals and all of that to the people
• 1:16:32
  in hopes that they'll pick them up and we'll have that moment of connection.
• 1:16:36
  Right. And that happens.
• 1:16:37
  But sometimes the connection is not what we anticipate it to be almost always.
• 1:16:41
  Right? Yeah. It's the same thing, I guess.
• 1:16:43
  I guess it's the same thing as with the choices, right?
• 1:16:45
  That's a it's another kind of thought experiment, right?
• 1:16:47
  Like, oh, I know this is you.
• 1:16:49
  Yeah. Actually don't know.
• 1:16:50
  Yeah. You have to write it and see how people respond.
• 1:16:53
  And so nothing makes me happier.
• 1:16:55
  And I've been getting this feedback on this book a lot.
• 1:16:58
  It's a real page turner.
• 1:16:59
  Yeah. It's what people tell me. But they can't put it down.
• 1:17:02
  People are losing sleep now.
• 1:17:03
  I don't recommend at my age- Losing sleep is true because I.
• 1:17:08
  My reading time is before I go to bed at night,
• 1:17:10
  and I would start and pick it up and say, okay, I'm
• 1:17:12
  going to read this much or I'm going to read this one section.
• 1:17:14
  I would read this one chapter
• 1:17:15
  and then, you know, an hour and a half later I'm going to bed late.
• 1:17:19
  See, I am sorry about that.
• 1:17:21
  I'm glad, though, that it's compelling in that way. And
• 1:17:27
  the other thing that I, that,
• 1:17:28
  my publicists would want me to mention is that it's actually quite funny.
• 1:17:32
  So I know that we are talking about dark material, but another thing
• 1:17:36
  I was able to bring into this book, I think, where the fullness.
• 1:17:40
  Well, who am I kidding? I'm always funny.
• 1:17:42
  I have been in the past also, right?
• 1:17:46
  But even more so is
• 1:17:50
  I don't think.
• 1:17:53
  I think that when we can laugh, we need to laugh.
• 1:17:56
  And I think that when we are able to open a window and let in some light,
• 1:18:02
  we should take that opportunity to do that,
• 1:18:05
  because the tough stuff is always going to be there waiting for us.
• 1:18:09
  Right?
• 1:18:10
  The darker rooms are going to be there waiting for us,
• 1:18:13
  and when
• 1:18:14
  we can bring in that light in the air to help us navigate that tough stuff,
• 1:18:17
  it actually
• 1:18:18
  allows us to go to deeper places and then come up
• 1:18:21
  and see the light in there and then deal with what we need to deal with.
• 1:18:25
  And so I really let that into this book.
• 1:18:28
  And when I thought, oh, this is not a place to, you know,
• 1:18:33
  have the funny scene where my husband Mark comes into the room and sees me.
• 1:18:38
  Oh, you'll have to read the book to see how That’s right, it’s
• 1:18:40
  a really good scene.
• 1:18:43
  I was what I was about to describe,
• 1:18:46
  they were going to cut from the radio anyway.
• 1:18:48
  Yeah. Oh.
• 1:18:50
  So, and I and I, I let myself
• 1:18:54
  revise towards the strange, as I tell my students.
• 1:18:57
  So when I, in those moments when I was like, oh, is this too far?
• 1:18:59
  I was like, nah.
• 1:19:01
  Yeah. So yeah, well, and from the audience perspective.
• 1:19:04
  From the reader perspective, too.
• 1:19:05
  I think that juxtaposition of the light moments and the dark moments
• 1:19:10
  allows them to sort of be what they are, right?
• 1:19:13
  Because that's that's the lived experience.
• 1:19:15
  That's that is the way life,
• 1:19:18
  that's the way life is.
• 1:19:19
  And so to move from, from moments
• 1:19:22
  of, of light to dark is a skill we develop.
• 1:19:26
  I think, as we, as we age and and live.
• 1:19:29
  Yeah. Yeah. Completely. Yeah.
• 1:19:32
  I think from a structural point of view too, you were talking about when we were,
• 1:19:36
  talking about vulnerability.
• 1:19:38
  There's something in the reading of this that, that I noted,
• 1:19:42
  which is this jumping back and forth through time.
• 1:19:46
  Right.
• 1:19:47
  And it starts with it does start with a tragedy.
• 1:19:51
  It's an unexpected tragedy.
• 1:19:53
  I mean, if you know what the book is about, it's it's
• 1:19:56
  unusual that you go all the way back in time,
• 1:20:00
  really to the to the, to the death of your fiancée.
• 1:20:04
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:06
  And, well, again, I don't want to spoil.
• 1:20:09
  There's a happy ending of the book there.
• 1:20:12
  I, I and he has a name.
• 1:20:15
  And I'm I'm not looking at that page
• 1:20:19
  now, but before, the baby that we that,
• 1:20:24
  we lost, we called him baby brother.
• 1:20:28
  And before baby brother,
• 1:20:32
  the defining tragedy of my life
• 1:20:34
  had been my fiancé Colin's death.
• 1:20:38
  In a car accident when he was 22 and I was 20.
• 1:20:43
  And I had done much work around that.
• 1:20:47
  And then when I was writing this book, I thought, oh,
• 1:20:51
  I don't need to tell that story again.
• 1:20:53
  I have told that story.
• 1:20:54
  I have plumbed to that grief.
• 1:20:58
  But of course, we as writers
• 1:21:00
  have these things we return to again and again.
• 1:21:04
  This is not a spoiler to say Jill Christman’s include love and grief.
• 1:21:09
  Yes. And fear.
• 1:21:11
  Yeah, that's kind of my trio.
• 1:21:13
  And I couldn't tell the story
• 1:21:17
  without telling the story of Colin's death because
• 1:21:23
  the knowledge
• 1:21:24
  that you could love, breathing in someone and they could go to work
• 1:21:29
  and never come back was one
• 1:21:32
  that I held on a cellular level, right?
• 1:21:35
  Like, I, I carry that fear.
• 1:21:37
  Believe me, my children could tell you they negotiate. Yes.
• 1:21:41
  They negotiate my awareness of the possibility of lost every day
• 1:21:45
  of their lives.
• 1:21:47
  And so that
• 1:21:49
  that I needed to return to that to tell this story.
• 1:21:53
  And also I found myself, you know, in a way,
• 1:21:57
  I think this is a happy thing about the book.
• 1:22:01
  Another thing I think it's about
• 1:22:03
  is the way we carry our beloveds with us.
• 1:22:08
  And, you know,
• 1:22:11
  we think about van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score.
• 1:22:14
  So we carry our trauma with us. Right.
• 1:22:17
  But we also carry our loves with us. Right.
• 1:22:20
  So I feel very physically
• 1:22:22
  that Colin has kind of come with me forward into my whole life.
• 1:22:26
  When the baby died, you know, I would,
• 1:22:31
  I would send my thoughts to him wherever he is and say.
• 1:22:38
  See, I can't even say it.
• 1:22:39
  Yeah, I would say, just in case you think making a choice does not mean we
• 1:22:43
  we don't grieve, right.
• 1:22:45
  I and or that grief is a thing that ends.
• 1:22:48
  I would say, you know, please keep him warm.
• 1:22:50
  Keep him safe. Yeah.
• 1:22:53
  And so he's just always with me.
• 1:22:57
  And then I also learned in the process of writing this book that
• 1:23:01
  on a cellular level, we,
• 1:23:04
  when we're pregnant, fetal cells cross the placenta.
• 1:23:09
  That's right.
• 1:23:10
  They do into our bodies.
• 1:23:12
  And so every pregnancy we've ever carried,
• 1:23:16
  whether or not it results in a live birth means that we are carrying
• 1:23:20
  the cells of those children in our bodies, for a long time, Which is beautiful.
• 1:23:26
  Which is beautiful. Right.
• 1:23:28
  As our children get older, too.
• 1:23:29
  Yeah. You.
• 1:23:30
  Know, like, I got you, like, I actually got you.
• 1:23:34
  Like literally, I got you.
• 1:23:35
  Yeah.
• 1:23:37
  So, like this, I this is a great comfort to me.
• 1:23:40
  This idea that that we will lose it.
• 1:23:45
  It's.
• 1:23:46
  I don't know how we move through our lives all the time.
• 1:23:48
  I'm just looking at both of your faces right now.
• 1:23:50
  Like every day we have to move through life
• 1:23:52
  knowing that those we love most will die someday, right?
• 1:23:56
  We might be here for that.
• 1:23:58
  We might not be here for that.
• 1:23:59
  But this is like the human condition of course. Right.
• 1:24:01
  And we're always navigating it.
• 1:24:03
  And so to kind of in this book talk about
• 1:24:09
  those who I love.
• 1:24:10
  And I think at the bottom of everything I do, what I want
• 1:24:13
  most is still to be able to show up in a day or on the page
• 1:24:18
  full of love.
• 1:24:19
  Yeah. Right. Like I want that.
• 1:24:22
  And I felt like I had the opportunity in telling the story
• 1:24:27
  and spending so much time shaping it to just come to this full realization
• 1:24:31
  that I carry them all with me into every day, into this room, into this,
• 1:24:35
  into this conversation right there, always with me.
• 1:24:38
  And that's a joy.
• 1:24:41
  And speaking of joy,
• 1:24:43
  Jill, what a pleasure it's been to talk with you in studio today.
• 1:24:48
  Jill Christman is the author of four books.
• 1:24:51
  Her latest, The Heart Folds Early, was published on
• 1:24:55
  March 1st.
• 1:25:10
  Hey, it's pop of culture.
• 1:25:12
  I’m Jen Blackmer.
• 1:25:13
  and I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 1:25:16
  Duende Libre is an award winning Seattle jazz trio whose original music combines
• 1:25:21
  jazz virtuosity with roots and rhythms from Cuba, Brazil
• 1:25:25
  and West Africa into a strikingly authentic blend.
• 1:25:29
  The trio will perform April 23rd at Ball State University's Pruis Hall,
• 1:25:34
  but we've got band leader Alex Chadsey with us right now.
• 1:25:38
  Thank you for joining us on Pop of Culture.
• 1:25:40
  Alex.
• 1:25:42
  Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here.
• 1:25:44
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:25:45
  Absolutely.
• 1:25:46
  You are on keys with the band, right?
• 1:25:49
  Tell me about That’s correct.
• 1:25:50
  Tell me about your other band mates.
• 1:25:52
  The rest of the trio who rounds it out for you.
• 1:25:55
  So we've got Farko Dosumov on the electric bass
• 1:25:59
  and Jeff Bush playing
• 1:26:02
  drums and a wide array of hand percussion instruments
• 1:26:07
  ranging from bells and shakers to,
• 1:26:11
  an instrument that some of your listeners may be familiar with called
• 1:26:14
  the berimbau, which, originally has its origins, its roots in Africa.
• 1:26:20
  But most of us here in the US are familiar with it,
• 1:26:24
  by way of Brazilian and in particular Brazilian capoeira,
• 1:26:29
  Brazilian Afro-Brazilian, martial art form.
• 1:26:34
  So listeners have probably
• 1:26:36
  already figured out that this trio, performs
• 1:26:39
  a lot of globally inspired jazz with a lot of dimension,
• 1:26:43
  and your music draws heavily from areas all over the world.
• 1:26:48
  How did this Duende Libre approach to music happen?
• 1:26:54
  Well, I can tell you that
• 1:26:56
  it wasn't anything that we sort of sat down or, you know, woke up one day
• 1:27:02
  and decided, okay, let's create a,
• 1:27:05
  you know, a band that combines jazz with,
• 1:27:09
  elements of, rhythms
• 1:27:12
  from Cuba, Brazil and the Mediterranean, West Africa.
• 1:27:16
  It was something that was a very natural process that just sort of unfolded,
• 1:27:21
  by nature of our eclectic tastes, I guess you could say.
• 1:27:29
  But also our experiences, you know, so
• 1:27:34
  Jeff lived in Brazil for about
• 1:27:36
  six months and studied with master Brazilian musicians
• 1:27:41
  when he was actually an art student in the UK.
• 1:27:45
  And, I have traveled to Cuba
• 1:27:48
  multiple times and studied with, master musicians there.
• 1:27:53
  In fact, I was very fortunate to meet Chucho Valdes.
• 1:27:57
  I even had a lesson with the great Chucho Valdez in his home.
• 1:28:00
  But actually, fell for us when I moved to Seattle.
• 1:28:06
  I was very fortunate to,
• 1:28:08
  Seattle at the time had a great, still does.
• 1:28:12
  But, there was there was a lot of gigs
• 1:28:15
  that were popping up, with salsa bands.
• 1:28:18
  And so I, you know, started playing with these, these bands
• 1:28:23
  and, and learning about the music and, and just really fell in love with it.
• 1:28:28
  And that kind of set me down this path of really immersing myself
• 1:28:34
  in, in Afro Latin music,
• 1:28:37
  music of the African diaspora in particular in the Caribbean.
• 1:28:41
  And it was really, transformative
• 1:28:44
  experience for me, you know, through those experiences.
• 1:28:47
  I mean, of course, the music is what drew me in.
• 1:28:49
  But then I learned, with these folks, sort of,
• 1:28:54
  helped me redefine what music means to me.
• 1:28:57
  Yeah.
• 1:28:58
  And, you know, and, and I came to understand
• 1:29:02
  that music is, is really about communication.
• 1:29:05
  It's about connection.
• 1:29:07
  You know, that was sort of like a ten year period in mostly in Seattle.
• 1:29:11
  But I did travel around as well.
• 1:29:13
  And then at some point, you know, the time came
• 1:29:17
  where I felt like, okay, now I want to
• 1:29:20
  sort of try
• 1:29:21
  to give back somehow, or at least,
• 1:29:24
  express some of these lessons that I've learned.
• 1:29:28
  And, and also, you know,
• 1:29:31
  some of the how these traditions have impacted me.
• 1:29:34
  And so that's when I formed this band, and I immediately knew
• 1:29:37
  that Jeff and Sako were the guys who I wanted in my band.
• 1:29:41
  Oh, I mean, how amazing is that, that you find two other
• 1:29:45
  individuals that are just as passionate
• 1:29:48
  about all different kinds of music and inspiration
• 1:29:53
  was definitely something that came to mind when I was listening
• 1:29:57
  to the latest album, invocation, that was released late last year.
• 1:30:02
  I mean, the album is all over the place, like in a great way, like in the best way.
• 1:30:07
  I mean, it's Latin, it's funk, it's it's super, super fun.
• 1:30:11
  But it also includes, like you said, those moments of of inspiration and
• 1:30:16
  kind of shout outs to, to those artists that have meant so much to you.
• 1:30:21
  Can you talk a little bit about Chick Corea and how the track chick came about?
• 1:30:25
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:30:27
  That that tune was written probably in the space of like an hour or something.
• 1:30:32
  Right after I,
• 1:30:35
  a friend of mine texted me at, and shared the news.
• 1:30:38
  That Chick, when Chick passed away, I believe that was in 2021.
• 1:30:42
  And it really, hit me
• 1:30:47
  sort of in an unexpectedly big way.
• 1:30:52
  You know, it was one of those things where I don't think I fully appreciated,
• 1:30:57
  Chick’ss influence
• 1:31:01
  and impact on me until I found out that he had suddenly passed,
• 1:31:07
  you know, but I always tell people that
• 1:31:09
  with that, there would be no when they leave without Chick Corea.
• 1:31:12
  Because for me, Chick, he was a he certainly wasn't the only jazz
• 1:31:18
  great to do this.
• 1:31:19
  But he was open and articulate
• 1:31:24
  to making those connections
• 1:31:28
  between jazz and
• 1:31:31
  music from other parts of the world.
• 1:31:33
  And of course, that's nothing new in in jazz.
• 1:31:38
  So that in my mind, there's always been this conversation
• 1:31:43
  between American jazz and music from the Caribbean, music from,
• 1:31:49
  you know, throughout the Americas,
• 1:31:53
  music from Africa, music from all over.
• 1:31:57
  But, you know, artists like Chick Corea have really sort of
• 1:32:00
  championed it in a way that was a huge inspiration on me.
• 1:32:04
  Yeah.
• 1:32:05
  Do you see it as kind of continuing to carry that torch?
• 1:32:09
  And is there a lot of pressure that comes with that when you're trying to pay
• 1:32:13
  tribute to.
• 1:32:14
  Those are huge, huge shoes to fill.
• 1:32:17
  But yeah. So I mean, in our own way, of course, you know.
• 1:32:19
  Yeah, we're we're trying to do our part what we can and it's
• 1:32:24
  it's yeah, it's certainly an opportunity.
• 1:32:27
  You know, because sometimes we get to travel to some communities
• 1:32:32
  where some of where, you know, folks have never seen a berimbau before, you know.
• 1:32:36
  Wow. And there's, there's always like a,
• 1:32:41
  a small crowd.
• 1:32:43
  And I would anticipate this will also be the case,
• 1:32:47
  at Ball State on, on April 23rd, where there's often like a crowd of people
• 1:32:52
  around Jeff, you know, on the intermission or after the show or just
• 1:32:57
  want to see what you know, what you know, because it looks it
• 1:32:59
  kind of looks like a bow and arrow. Yes.
• 1:33:01
  And and it makes this really, it's a I mean, he, for the folks
• 1:33:06
  who are listening, who may not know what a berimbau is, there's sort of like a,
• 1:33:13
  a metal wire on a stick that, and then there's,
• 1:33:17
  like a gourd resonator at the bottom that sort of amplifies the sound.
• 1:33:21
  And then Jeff, essentially strikes the wire.
• 1:33:25
  So it just makes this really interesting sound.
• 1:33:29
  And in Afro-Brazilian culture, I believe the, the, the, the belief
• 1:33:35
  is that the beat and bow is sort of used to communicate with the ancestors.
• 1:33:39
  Oh, wow.
• 1:33:40
  So, so it's it has a very, important
• 1:33:44
  spiritual significance in that tradition.
• 1:33:48
  And, and anyhow, it's,
• 1:33:50
  it's the instruments and of course the rhythms and all of these things,
• 1:33:53
  they're just great opportunity for us to talk about where these instruments
• 1:33:59
  and these rhythms come from, and also how we were introduced to them.
• 1:34:05
  Because all of this, we were, learned by apprenticing
• 1:34:10
  with masters from these, these traditions.
• 1:34:15
  Absolutely.
• 1:34:16
  Well, you'll
• 1:34:16
  you will be sharing that with, Muncie community audience very, very soon.
• 1:34:22
  For those who may be hearing the trio
• 1:34:25
  for the first time, kind of, could you describe the experience?
• 1:34:30
  What do you want people to get out of the show?
• 1:34:34
  We want to lift people up.
• 1:34:36
  Yeah.
• 1:34:37
  You know, essentially, I mean, you know, this
• 1:34:41
  a lot of this music, a lot of these traditions
• 1:34:44
  are, as I mentioned, they're from the African diaspora.
• 1:34:48
  And in particular the Caribbean, Brazil.
• 1:34:54
  And of course, as we know from history,
• 1:34:59
  the Africans that came to the New World did not come here voluntarily.
• 1:35:04
  Right. And it was.
• 1:35:05
  And it was a pretty horrific history in a lot of ways.
• 1:35:09
  And yet it was music
• 1:35:12
  and culture that helped folks survive.
• 1:35:16
  And so this which is just to say that this music
• 1:35:20
  is resilient, you know, there's there's resilience like that
• 1:35:23
  is sort of embedded in these rhythms that's embedded in these traditions.
• 1:35:28
  And I think, resilience is something that we all need right now.
• 1:35:32
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:35:33
  You know, because we're all I mean, everyone is sort of going through it.
• 1:35:37
  And in one way or another, you know, in our, in our,
• 1:35:41
  our stories may not look the same and our contexts may be different, but,
• 1:35:46
  you know, it's it's not an easy, time
• 1:35:50
  for our species on the planet, right?
• 1:35:53
  Yeah.
• 1:35:54
  So I think, we're just hoping that whatever,
• 1:35:58
  you know, that this will help folks,
• 1:36:01
  you know, feel recharged, feel refreshed and ready to,
• 1:36:05
  you know, engage, wholeheartedly with, with their lives
• 1:36:09
  and with the things they care about and the people that care about.
• 1:36:12
  Yeah.
• 1:36:13
  And I would also say just, you know, having those moments of collective
• 1:36:17
  joy are super important, too, right?
• 1:36:20
  Absolutely.
• 1:36:22
  Let's end our conversation talking about the word duende.
• 1:36:26
  It has a really beautiful meaning, right?
• 1:36:29
  Spirit, soul, a kind of emotional intensity in art.
• 1:36:34
  What does duende mean to you
• 1:36:37
  when you are on stage performing?
• 1:36:42
  That's a great question.
• 1:36:43
  No one's ever asked me that. Yeah.
• 1:36:45
  You know, it's trying to tap into.
• 1:36:49
  Yeah.
• 1:36:50
  Well, the duende, as you mentioned it, it comes from,
• 1:36:53
  Gaetano culture in the, you know, from the Iberian
• 1:36:58
  Peninsula was famously associated with flamenco music.
• 1:37:02
  And it's as you mentioned, it's sort of like this, almost,
• 1:37:07
  primordial kind of spirit.
• 1:37:11
  very grounded, like in the Earth and as opposed to,
• 1:37:14
  like, the angel and the muse that are more kind of transcendental.
• 1:37:17
  And it it's it's me and it's the trio.
• 1:37:21
  Right.
• 1:37:21
  So if we're we're trying to really listen, we're trying to create
• 1:37:25
  a communion or conversation on stage that then we hope will,
• 1:37:30
  radiate out and bring in the audience.
• 1:37:33
  Right?
• 1:37:33
  So that, like you were saying, it's that moment of
• 1:37:36
  of joy, or you know, you could say catharsis.
• 1:37:41
  That, that,
• 1:37:42
  can be experienced in a live performance.
• 1:37:46
  And I think it's one of the things that's actually really unique
• 1:37:48
  about live performance that is, it's hard to replicate that.
• 1:37:55
  I mean, of course, recordings are great.
• 1:37:58
  And you can, you know, experience that on some level through a recording.
• 1:38:02
  But I think just being in the same room, you know, with the audience,
• 1:38:06
  with the musicians on stage, it's it's a shared experience that,
• 1:38:11
  that that is really, I think one of the great joys of,
• 1:38:16
  of life and, and part of our birthright is as human beings.
• 1:38:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:38:21
  Well, this conversation has definitely been a moment of joy for mem, Alex.
• 1:38:26
  Thank you so much Me, too! for taking the time.
• 1:38:28
  I really look forward to seeing the group April 23rd at Pruis Hall.
• 1:38:34
  Again, thank you so much for joining me on pop culture.
• 1:38:38
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:38:38
  Thank you for the invitation. It's been my pleasure.
• 1:38:47
  Dunde Libre
• 1:38:48
  will make a rare Midwestern appearance at Pruis Hall on Thursday, April 23rd.
• 1:38:54
  Our podcast, on the other hand, appears weekly.
• 1:38:58
  Find Pop of Culture on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, the NPR app,
• 1:39:02
  or at Indiana Public Radio.
• 1:39:03
  Dot org.
• 1:39:06
  Do do do do do do do.
• 1:39:22
  You're listening to Pop of Culture.
• 1:39:24
  I'm Jen Blackmer.
• 1:39:25
  I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 1:39:26
  And I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 1:39:28
  We are here with the Muncie Arts and Culture Council to talk about art
• 1:39:31
  for the people, a weekend long celebration of public art.
• 1:39:35
  Tania Said is the council's executive director.
• 1:39:37
  Kim Miller is president of the board.
• 1:39:39
  Welcome. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having us.
• 1:39:43
  First of all,
• 1:39:43
  can you give us an overview of what the weekend will have for the public?
• 1:39:47
  Well, the great news is that because we finished so many wonderful
• 1:39:52
  works of public art in 2025, we are going to have
• 1:39:55
  six celebrations and feature two others that we have.
• 1:39:58
  So eight in all over the course of Friday, April 24th and Saturday, April 25th.
• 1:40:05
  And I know that the work was paid for with, federal Covid 19 federal funds.
• 1:40:10
  How excited are you that, the community decided that that's
• 1:40:14
  what we wanted to do with some of those federal funds.
• 1:40:16
  It was a really great opportunity for Muncie arts and culture
• 1:40:21
  to listen to the community and see what they really wanted.
• 1:40:25
  So it's been really great
• 1:40:26
  to see the projects now coming to life and people talking about them
• 1:40:30
  and just seeing how excited the entire community
• 1:40:33
  has been to see these things happening in their community.
• 1:40:37
  I want to describe a few of the pieces,
• 1:40:39
  but first of all, could you talk about the intention of public art?
• 1:40:43
  Public art is different from, say, a painting, on a wall, in a museum.
• 1:40:47
  What's kind of the role of public art in Muncie?
• 1:40:49
  I think it's been changing, and I think that's really important to note.
• 1:40:52
  So we have a wonderful history in Muncie that has featured artists
• 1:40:58
  and public art throughout the city, and that has been really valuable.
• 1:41:04
  And it's been helpful for memorializing
• 1:41:07
  people and celebrations or different moments.
• 1:41:10
  But it's also been a very historical, traditional kind of approach.
• 1:41:13
  And what we're looking at now is something that is more contemporary,
• 1:41:18
  more representative of who we are and where we are,
• 1:41:21
  and what I think is most valuable is, representing the voices,
• 1:41:26
  because there has been so much community
• 1:41:27
  participation and all of those works of art.
• 1:41:30
  With this funding, we've been able to change it so it's more forward looking.
• 1:41:35
  The thing I love about public art is that it is free and accessible all the time.
• 1:41:40
  Doesn't matter day or night. There's no admission.
• 1:41:42
  There's no quote free day that, like so many institutions, have to have
• 1:41:45
  to ensure that they're accessible because it's always accessible.
• 1:41:49
  Speaking of that, are all the eight artworks that you're talking about?
• 1:41:52
  Are they all permanent installations or are some of them temporary?
• 1:41:56
  With this, plan, we have to have everything out for at least ten years.
• 1:42:01
  So the sculptures obviously will probably be much longer lived.
• 1:42:05
  And then hopefully with the murals, you know, they have a long, healthy life.
• 1:42:09
  The Muncie Arts and Culture Council will, upon completion, continue
• 1:42:13
  to own those works of art and that each one of these sites
• 1:42:17
  has in effect borrowed it or,
• 1:42:18
  it's on loan, so to speak, from the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 1:42:22
  And so together, we are responsible for maintaining it
• 1:42:26
  and ensuring that it's publicly available for years to come.
• 1:42:30
  Oh, excellent.
• 1:42:30
  Could you maybe pick one of the pieces and describe them for people?
• 1:42:35
  Since this is radio, as kind of a preview of
• 1:42:37
  this is what you could see for the weekend.
• 1:42:39
  The one at eighth and Hoyt is called Habitat Haven.
• 1:42:43
  It's at the corner across from the Common Market and across
• 1:42:48
  Support for pop of culture comes from Stallings wealth management.
• 1:42:51
  Daniel Stallings, financial advisor, securities
• 1:42:53
  and advisory services offered through Cetera advisors, LLC member, FINRA,
• 1:42:57
  SIPC, a broker dealer and registered investment advisor.
• 1:43:00
  Cetera is under separate ownership from any other named entity.
• 1:43:04
  This week on pop culture,
• 1:43:06
  heartfelt conversations and heartfelt music.
• 1:43:10
  Author Jill Christman’s latest memoir is 20 years in the making.
• 1:43:14
  And I hear myself thinking that even now and I can stop myself now, I think, well,
• 1:43:18
  I would do this. I was like, would you? Jill?
• 1:43:20
  And musical group Duende Libre
• 1:43:23
  tells us about the international influences
• 1:43:26
  they've picked up before they perform in Muncie.
• 1:43:30
  That's coming up.
• 1:43:31
  Support for Pop of Culture comes from Stallings
• 1:43:35
  wealth management and from you.
• 1:43:39
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 1:43:41
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 1:43:45
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 1:43:49
  So you are the reason local
• 1:43:51
  programing is still on IPR.
• 1:43:55
  Give today at Indiana Public radio.org.
• 1:44:02
  From IPR this is pop of culture.
• 1:44:04
  I’m Jen Blackmer. And I'm Michele Kinsey.
• 1:44:07
  Coming up later this hour we chat with jazz trio Duende Libre.
• 1:44:11
  They'll bring a long list of international influences to a performance in Muncie.
• 1:44:17
  But first, the Heart Folds Early is a new memoir by author Jill Christman.
• 1:44:22
  This is her fourth book.
• 1:44:23
  Jill, thanks for coming by the show to talk to us about your book.
• 1:44:28
  Jen I feel like it goes without saying that I am a huge pop of culture fan,
• 1:44:32
  and it is my pure delight.
• 1:44:35
  If you could see me, I'm sparkling with delight to be here today.
• 1:44:39
  She is to our radio listeners.
• 1:44:40
  We’re, we're so happy you could come by.
• 1:44:42
  And in the opening to the book, you say that you had been working on this book
• 1:44:48
  and that this book exists in and in a certain version,
• 1:44:52
  and then you put it away for three years.
• 1:44:54
  Why did you put it away?
• 1:44:56
  Yeah, it was around 2018 ish.
• 1:45:00
  I had an agent who was shopping around a version of this book—which
• 1:45:05
  has tried on so many outfits, it's like someone in a prom shop, right?
• 1:45:10
  And I would be lying if I told you if I could remember what version that was,
• 1:45:15
  but we, I had an agent at the time, and it was going around
• 1:45:18
  to some of the big houses, and the feedback we were getting
• 1:45:23
  was that the marketing folks
• 1:45:26
  didn't know how to talk about a book that took on the subject
• 1:45:31
  of a second trimester medical abortion,
• 1:45:35
  and I took that in.
• 1:45:38
  At one point, for example, there was a conversation
• 1:45:40
  about how they didn't know how they would
• 1:45:42
  position this book for sales at baby showers, for example.
• 1:45:45
  And I thought, that makes no sense to me.
• 1:45:48
  Other things I was hearing included, and I quote, motherhood has been played out.
• 1:45:53
  So to all of you fellow mothers, I was like.
• 1:45:55
  Has it really? Yes.
• 1:45:57
  That's news for any of you who came from a mother in some way.
• 1:46:03
  I don't think that that's true.
• 1:46:04
  But also, as an editor, I don't believe that any subject has been played out.
• 1:46:08
  Anyway, it started to seem really hard.
• 1:46:11
  I'm going to be really honest.
• 1:46:12
  It just started to seem really hard.
• 1:46:13
  And I thought to myself, is this the battle I want to fight?
• 1:46:18
  I thought, no writing is ever wasted.
• 1:46:20
  I worked really hard on this book.
• 1:46:22
  I learned a lot about myself and about the world from writing this book.
• 1:46:26
  I'm good and I'm out.
• 1:46:27
  Like, yeah, yeah, I was out and and then, as you
• 1:46:31
  said, as you in the in the prolog, I talk about it.
• 1:46:35
  The Dobbs decision came down in the summer of 2022.
• 1:46:40
  I remember where I was as I heard the news,
• 1:46:44
  and it would sound like hyperbole to tell you that
• 1:46:47
  I knew on that day that I would return to this manuscript and finish it.
• 1:46:52
  But I knew on that day I would return to this manuscript
• 1:46:54
  and finish it, because I knew I had the capacity to tell a story
• 1:46:59
  that I wasn't able to find that I desperately needed to hear, when I was
• 1:47:04
  going through the experiences of the book, and it was my job.
• 1:47:08
  So I did it.
• 1:47:08
  Right, right, and I think many of us remember where we were in that moment,
• 1:47:13
  because many truths that we thought,
• 1:47:17
  were, were a part of our existence changed.
• 1:47:22
  And and that happened very quickly, even though there was some anticipation
• 1:47:26
  that it may happen, there was a real difference when it did.
• 1:47:31
  Yes. Yes. Yeah.
• 1:47:33
  The refrain that, you keep coming back to
• 1:47:37
  and I think as it relates to the this moment in history,
• 1:47:41
  is that the choice you never thought
• 1:47:44
  you'd have to make is, is you never know what you'll do in that moment.
• 1:47:49
  Right.
• 1:47:50
  And that choosing something in theory, is not choosing.
• 1:47:55
  Yeah.
• 1:47:56
  And that sounds really simple.
• 1:47:58
  And I really wrote myself to that conclusion
• 1:48:02
  after years and years of trying to understand.
• 1:48:05
  And I think one thing that's so different about this book for me.
• 1:48:08
  And so for those of you working on your memoirs out there, I'm three memoirs in.
• 1:48:11
  So I feel like I am a bit of an expert on this.
• 1:48:13
  I've been doing this for 30 years.
• 1:48:14
  Yeah, I'd say so.
• 1:48:16
  I, and this is the advice I still give to my students who are on maybe,
• 1:48:20
  maybe for memoir number one, it's different,
• 1:48:22
  but I always say nobody gets to be in the room with you when you're working.
• 1:48:26
  Right there is,
• 1:48:28
  I once heard Cheryl Strayed say this, and it was hilarious and true.
• 1:48:31
  There is not a direct pipeline from your laptop to the New Yorker, right?
• 1:48:35
  You're safe.
• 1:48:36
  Okay, so tell your story the way you need to tell your story.
• 1:48:41
  Don't let your mother come in the room with you.
• 1:48:44
  Don't let your spouse come in the room with you. Don't.
• 1:48:46
  Don't let those who intimidate you in any way come into the room with you.
• 1:48:51
  Maybe even the people who love you. Everybody out right?
• 1:48:55
  With this book, it was completely different.
• 1:48:58
  I felt like this book was positioning me
• 1:49:01
  to be part of a conversation that we all need to have.
• 1:49:06
  And so I was like, Jen Blackmer, come into the room, right?
• 1:49:11
  Yeah. Mom, come on in.
• 1:49:15
  Right.
• 1:49:16
  My grown children, for whom I am always writing into a future
• 1:49:20
  where I might not even be, come into the room right.
• 1:49:25
  Also, those who have faced a similar devastating
• 1:49:28
  diagnosis as we did, mid pregnancy and have to make a decision.
• 1:49:33
  Those of you who made a different decision come into the room.
• 1:49:36
  I want you to be here more than anybody else. Right?
• 1:49:39
  I want this to be a conversation about
• 1:49:42
  what we do when we are faced
• 1:49:44
  with the reality of that situation,
• 1:49:48
  with every single permutation of circumstance present.
• 1:49:52
  Right.
• 1:49:53
  Like in our case, our baby was diagnosed with half a heart.
• 1:49:57
  He also had no aorta, right?
• 1:49:59
  The doctors told us his condition was incompatible with life
• 1:50:04
  and I didn't even know that was possible.
• 1:50:07
  Yeah, like I couldn't have told you how I would do this or I would do that
• 1:50:12
  because I didn't know that was possible.
• 1:50:16
  And then in the writing of the book, I realized, well,
• 1:50:18
  I would have told you that I would have done this.
• 1:50:20
  And I hear myself thinking, even now, and I can stop myself now.
• 1:50:23
  I think, well, I would do this.
• 1:50:25
  I was like, would you? Jill? Yeah.
• 1:50:27
  Like, how do you know? Like what?
• 1:50:29
  What if what if you didn't have other children?
• 1:50:32
  What if, you know, there are just so many? What if, what if, what if?
• 1:50:34
  And I just one day I was like, an imaginary choice is not a choice.
• 1:50:40
  An imaginary choice is a mind experiment, right?
• 1:50:44
  And the thought experiments that go on in, in places of power
• 1:50:48
  with the people who have the power to shape what those choices are,
• 1:50:54
  are often conducted in that singular mindset.
• 1:50:58
  Well, I would do fill in the blank and it's like you just there,
• 1:51:02
  you have no way of knowing. You have no way of knowing.
• 1:51:05
  You have no way of knowing.
• 1:51:06
  And in fact, when I think about how I almost didn't finish this book right,
• 1:51:11
  and I almost did not allow myself
• 1:51:13
  to be part of that conversation, that's scary to me.
• 1:51:17
  Sure. Right. Because it almost worked.
• 1:51:19
  I was almost like, yeah, you're right, this is too hard.
• 1:51:22
  This is too scary.
• 1:51:23
  I'm just going to keep it to myself.
• 1:51:26
  And I have
• 1:51:29
  never met a secret or a silence
• 1:51:33
  that helped anybody except for those trying to control the narrative.
• 1:51:37
  Right? Right.
• 1:51:39
  You mentioned being invited in to the conversation,
• 1:51:43
  which is so powerful and it's so clear in the book,
• 1:51:48
  and I've known you for a long time, but there's something
• 1:51:52
  that is is really quite
• 1:51:55
  beautiful about the experience of feeling
• 1:51:59
  as though the person writing this book is talking directly to you.
• 1:52:04
  And that was my experience.
• 1:52:05
  It was almost like you were sitting next to me.
• 1:52:07
  And there's there's such an exquisite vulnerability to that.
• 1:52:12
  And how do you write from that place?
• 1:52:17
  Oh, that's a good question, Jen.
• 1:52:19
  I, I don't experience
• 1:52:23
  that as vulnerability as much as I used to.
• 1:52:27
  And I think it's partially comes from confidence.
• 1:52:31
  Right?
• 1:52:32
  I have practiced telling stories
• 1:52:35
  for many, many years. And
• 1:52:39
  and maybe I'm trying
• 1:52:41
  to make a theater analogy here, but I'm wondering, you know,
• 1:52:44
  like the first time you go on stage, you're probably more nervous, right?
• 1:52:47
  Yeah.
• 1:52:47
  And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like,
• 1:52:52
  you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else.
• 1:52:54
  I could break down that fourth wall.
• 1:52:56
  I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right.
• 1:52:59
  So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me.
• 1:53:02
  But also
• 1:53:04
  with that experience has come my full understanding
• 1:53:08
  that writing is the safest place.
• 1:53:11
  I know. I know, to be.
• 1:53:13
  I never feel safer
• 1:53:17
  or more comfortable than when I'm trying to figure out
• 1:53:21
  how to shape a story in words and so sometimes people say to me,
• 1:53:28
  how was what was it like to go back to that scary place?
• 1:53:32
  Yeah, Right? Wasn't that awful?
• 1:53:35
  And I used to think, oh, yeah, that was scary and I guess so.
• 1:53:39
  But now I understand that when I go back, I go back with everything I am now.
• 1:53:45
  Everyone who loves me all the power I have accrued
• 1:53:49
  right through using language to shape and experience.
• 1:53:53
  And I can go back to a thing that was scary at the time.
• 1:53:58
  And now I can stop when I want.
• 1:54:00
  I can start when I want.
• 1:54:01
  I can figure out a metaphor that helps me to understand that thing better.
• 1:54:06
  So. So yeah, I think that maybe,
• 1:54:10
  vulnerability has come to mean actually a place of power.
• 1:54:16
  Yeah, I believe that.
• 1:54:17
  Yeah.
• 1:54:18
  And I think that the thing that you said about feeling
• 1:54:21
  like I was talking to you, that makes me so happy because I was.
• 1:54:26
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:54:27
  And that was the thing
• 1:54:30
  that felt so different to me in this book than anything else.
• 1:54:33
  I feel like other books I have written for myself, and that was good and right.
• 1:54:37
  And as it should be, and this one I was really trying to
• 1:54:43
  just have everybody come in and have that conversation with me.
• 1:54:46
  And every time I came up against something that I felt afraid
• 1:54:49
  to say or felt like, oh, so-and-so wouldn't like this.
• 1:54:52
  First of all,
• 1:54:54
  I have never been right about that in any of my previous books ever.
• 1:54:58
  Yeah. And if you talk to memoirists, they'll tell you this.
• 1:55:00
  They'll be like, oh, I was afraid
• 1:55:01
  my father would be angry about this, or I was afraid
• 1:55:03
  my mother would have her feelings hurt by this.
• 1:55:06
  Folks have been angry.
• 1:55:07
  Folks have had their feelings hurt.
• 1:55:09
  These things have happened.
• 1:55:10
  Although again, not as much as you would think.
• 1:55:12
  And I have never been right about what that thing would be.
• 1:55:15
  Never, ever.
• 1:55:16
  So I don't worry about that anymore, because what's the point?
• 1:55:18
  There's no point.
• 1:55:19
  Yeah.
• 1:55:20
  Well, and it goes, it goes to show that that you never can
• 1:55:23
  really know the thought processes of another human being.
• 1:55:27
  I mean, part of what we do as writers is we are reaching out.
• 1:55:30
  We are, you know, sending out signals and all of that to the people
• 1:55:34
  in hopes that they'll pick them up and we'll have that moment of connection.
• 1:55:38
  Right. And that happens.
• 1:55:39
  But sometimes the connection is not what we anticipate it to be almost always.
• 1:55:43
  Right? Yeah. It's the same thing, I guess.
• 1:55:45
  I guess it's the same thing as with the choices, right?
• 1:55:47
  That's a it's another kind of thought experiment, right?
• 1:55:49
  Like, oh, I know this is you.
• 1:55:51
  Yeah. Actually don't know.
• 1:55:52
  Yeah. You have to write it and see how people respond.
• 1:55:55
  And so nothing makes me happier.
• 1:55:57
  And I've been getting this feedback on this book a lot.
• 1:56:00
  It's a real page turner.
• 1:56:01
  Yeah. It's what people tell me. But they can't put it down.
• 1:56:04
  People are losing sleep now.
• 1:56:05
  I don't recommend at my age- Losing sleep is true because I.
• 1:56:10
  My reading time is before I go to bed at night,
• 1:56:12
  and I would start and pick it up and say, okay, I'm
• 1:56:14
  going to read this much or I'm going to read this one section.
• 1:56:16
  I would read this one chapter
• 1:56:17
  and then, you know, an hour and a half later I'm going to bed late.
• 1:56:21
  See, I am sorry about that.
• 1:56:23
  I'm glad, though, that it's compelling in that way. And
• 1:56:29
  the other thing that I, that,
• 1:56:30
  my publicists would want me to mention is that it's actually quite funny.
• 1:56:34
  So I know that we are talking about dark material, but another thing
• 1:56:38
  I was able to bring into this book, I think, where the fullness.
• 1:56:42
  Well, who am I kidding? I'm always funny.
• 1:56:44
  I have been in the past also, right?
• 1:56:48
  But even more so is
• 1:56:52
  I don't think.
• 1:56:55
  I think that when we can laugh, we need to laugh.
• 1:56:58
  And I think that when we are able to open a window and let in some light,
• 1:57:04
  we should take that opportunity to do that,
• 1:57:06
  because the tough stuff is always going to be there waiting for us.
• 1:57:11
  Right?
• 1:57:12
  The darker rooms are going to be there waiting for us,
• 1:57:15
  and when
• 1:57:15
  we can bring in that light in the air to help us navigate that tough stuff,
• 1:57:19
  it actually
• 1:57:20
  allows us to go to deeper places and then come up
• 1:57:23
  and see the light in there and then deal with what we need to deal with.
• 1:57:27
  And so I really let that into this book.
• 1:57:30
  And when I thought, oh, this is not a place to, you know,
• 1:57:34
  have the funny scene where my husband Mark comes into the room and sees me.
• 1:57:40
  Oh, you'll have to read the book to see how That’s right, it’s
• 1:57:42
  a really good scene.
• 1:57:45
  I was what I was about to describe,
• 1:57:48
  they were going to cut from the radio anyway.
• 1:57:50
  Yeah. Oh.
• 1:57:52
  So, and I and I, I let myself
• 1:57:56
  revise towards the strange, as I tell my students.
• 1:57:59
  So when I, in those moments when I was like, oh, is this too far?
• 1:58:01
  I was like, nah.
• 1:58:03
  Yeah. So yeah, well, and from the audience perspective.
• 1:58:05
  From the reader perspective, too.
• 1:58:07
  I think that juxtaposition of the light moments and the dark moments
• 1:58:11
  allows them to sort of be what they are, right?
• 1:58:15
  Because that's that's the lived experience.
• 1:58:16
  That's that is the way life,
• 1:58:19
  that's the way life is.
• 1:58:21
  And so to move from, from moments
• 1:58:24
  of, of light to dark is a skill we develop.
• 1:58:28
  I think, as we, as we age and and live.
• 1:58:31
  Yeah. Yeah. Completely. Yeah.
• 1:58:34
  I think from a structural point of view too, you were talking about when we were,
• 1:58:38
  talking about vulnerability.
• 1:58:40
  There's something in the reading of this that, that I noted,
• 1:58:44
  which is this jumping back and forth through time.
• 1:58:48
  Right.
• 1:58:49
  And it starts with it does start with a tragedy.
• 1:58:53
  It's an unexpected tragedy.
• 1:58:55
  I mean, if you know what the book is about, it's it's
• 1:58:58
  unusual that you go all the way back in time,
• 1:59:02
  really to the to the, to the death of your fiancée.
• 1:59:06
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:59:08
  And, well, again, I don't want to spoil.
• 1:59:11
  There's a happy ending of the book there.
• 1:59:14
  I, I and he has a name.
• 1:59:17
  And I'm I'm not looking at that page
• 1:59:21
  now, but before, the baby that we that,
• 1:59:26
  we lost, we called him baby brother.
• 1:59:30
  And before baby brother,
• 1:59:34
  the defining tragedy of my life
• 1:59:36
  had been my fiancé Colin's death.
• 1:59:40
  In a car accident when he was 22 and I was 20.
• 1:59:45
  And I had done much work around that.
• 1:59:49
  And then when I was writing this book, I thought, oh,
• 1:59:53
  I don't need to tell that story again.
• 1:59:55
  I have told that story.
• 1:59:56
  I have plumbed to that grief.
• 2:00:00
  But of course, we as writers
• 2:00:02
  have these things we return to again and again.
• 2:00:06
  This is not a spoiler to say Jill Christman’s include love and grief.
• 2:00:11
  Yes. And fear.
• 2:00:13
  Yeah, that's kind of my trio.
• 2:00:15
  And I couldn't tell the story
• 2:00:18
  without telling the story of Colin's death because
• 2:00:25
  the knowledge
• 2:00:26
  that you could love, breathing in someone and they could go to work
• 2:00:30
  and never come back was one
• 2:00:33
  that I held on a cellular level, right?
• 2:00:37
  Like, I, I carry that fear.
• 2:00:39
  Believe me, my children could tell you they negotiate. Yes.
• 2:00:43
  They negotiate my awareness of the possibility of lost every day
• 2:00:47
  of their lives.
• 2:00:48
  And so that
• 2:00:51
  that I needed to return to that to tell this story.
• 2:00:55
  And also I found myself, you know, in a way,
• 2:00:59
  I think this is a happy thing about the book.
• 2:01:03
  Another thing I think it's about
• 2:01:05
  is the way we carry our beloveds with us.
• 2:01:10
  And, you know,
• 2:01:13
  we think about van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score.
• 2:01:16
  So we carry our trauma with us. Right.
• 2:01:19
  But we also carry our loves with us. Right.
• 2:01:22
  So I feel very physically
• 2:01:24
  that Colin has kind of come with me forward into my whole life.
• 2:01:28
  When the baby died, you know, I would,
• 2:01:33
  I would send my thoughts to him wherever he is and say.
• 2:01:40
  See, I can't even say it.
• 2:01:41
  Yeah, I would say, just in case you think making a choice does not mean we
• 2:01:45
  we don't grieve, right.
• 2:01:47
  I and or that grief is a thing that ends.
• 2:01:50
  I would say, you know, please keep him warm.
• 2:01:52
  Keep him safe. Yeah.
• 2:01:55
  And so he's just always with me.
• 2:01:58
  And then I also learned in the process of writing this book that
• 2:02:03
  on a cellular level, we,
• 2:02:06
  when we're pregnant, fetal cells cross the placenta.
• 2:02:11
  That's right.
• 2:02:12
  They do into our bodies.
• 2:02:14
  And so every pregnancy we've ever carried,
• 2:02:18
  whether or not it results in a live birth means that we are carrying
• 2:02:22
  the cells of those children in our bodies, for a long time, Which is beautiful.
• 2:02:28
  Which is beautiful. Right.
• 2:02:30
  As our children get older, too.
• 2:02:31
  Yeah. You.
• 2:02:32
  Know, like, I got you, like, I actually got you.
• 2:02:36
  Like literally, I got you.
• 2:02:37
  Yeah.
• 2:02:38
  So, like this, I this is a great comfort to me.
• 2:02:41
  This idea that that we will lose it.
• 2:02:47
  It's.
• 2:02:48
  I don't know how we move through our lives all the time.
• 2:02:50
  I'm just looking at both of your faces right now.
• 2:02:52
  Like every day we have to move through life
• 2:02:54
  knowing that those we love most will die someday, right?
• 2:02:58
  We might be here for that.
• 2:02:59
  We might not be here for that.
• 2:03:01
  But this is like the human condition of course. Right.
• 2:03:03
  And we're always navigating it.
• 2:03:05
  And so to kind of in this book talk about
• 2:03:10
  those who I love.
• 2:03:12
  And I think at the bottom of everything I do, what I want
• 2:03:15
  most is still to be able to show up in a day or on the page
• 2:03:20
  full of love.
• 2:03:21
  Yeah. Right. Like I want that.
• 2:03:24
  And I felt like I had the opportunity in telling the story
• 2:03:29
  and spending so much time shaping it to just come to this full realization
• 2:03:33
  that I carry them all with me into every day, into this room, into this,
• 2:03:37
  into this conversation right there, always with me.
• 2:03:40
  And that's a joy.
• 2:03:43
  And speaking of joy,
• 2:03:45
  Jill, what a pleasure it's been to talk with you in studio today.
• 2:03:50
  Jill Christman is the author of four books.
• 2:03:53
  Her latest, The Heart Folds Early, was published on
• 2:03:57
  March 1st.
• 2:04:12
  Hey, it's pop of culture.
• 2:04:14
  I’m Jen Blackmer.
• 2:04:15
  and I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 2:04:18
  Duende Libre is an award winning Seattle jazz trio whose original music combines
• 2:04:23
  jazz virtuosity with roots and rhythms from Cuba, Brazil
• 2:04:27
  and West Africa into a strikingly authentic blend.
• 2:04:31
  The trio will perform April 23rd at Ball State University's Pruis Hall,
• 2:04:36
  but we've got band leader Alex Chadsey with us right now.
• 2:04:40
  Thank you for joining us on Pop of Culture.
• 2:04:42
  Alex.
• 2:04:44
  Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be here.
• 2:04:46
  Thanks for having me.
• 2:04:47
  Absolutely.
• 2:04:47
  You are on keys with the band, right?
• 2:04:51
  Tell me about That’s correct.
• 2:04:52
  Tell me about your other band mates.
• 2:04:54
  The rest of the trio who rounds it out for you.
• 2:04:57
  So we've got Farko Dosumov on the electric bass
• 2:05:01
  and Jeff Bush playing
• 2:05:04
  drums and a wide array of hand percussion instruments
• 2:05:09
  ranging from bells and shakers to,
• 2:05:13
  an instrument that some of your listeners may be familiar with called
• 2:05:16
  the berimbau, which, originally has its origins, its roots in Africa.
• 2:05:22
  But most of us here in the US are familiar with it,
• 2:05:26
  by way of Brazilian and in particular Brazilian capoeira,
• 2:05:31
  Brazilian Afro-Brazilian, martial art form.
• 2:05:35
  So listeners have probably
• 2:05:38
  already figured out that this trio, performs
• 2:05:41
  a lot of globally inspired jazz with a lot of dimension,
• 2:05:45
  and your music draws heavily from areas all over the world.
• 2:05:50
  How did this Duende Libre approach to music happen?
• 2:05:56
  Well, I can tell you that
• 2:05:58
  it wasn't anything that we sort of sat down or, you know, woke up one day
• 2:06:04
  and decided, okay, let's create a,
• 2:06:07
  you know, a band that combines jazz with,
• 2:06:11
  elements of, rhythms
• 2:06:14
  from Cuba, Brazil and the Mediterranean, West Africa.
• 2:06:18
  It was something that was a very natural process that just sort of unfolded,
• 2:06:23
  by nature of our eclectic tastes, I guess you could say.
• 2:06:31
  But also our experiences, you know, so
• 2:06:36
  Jeff lived in Brazil for about
• 2:06:38
  six months and studied with master Brazilian musicians
• 2:06:43
  when he was actually an art student in the UK.
• 2:06:46
  And, I have traveled to Cuba
• 2:06:50
  multiple times and studied with, master musicians there.
• 2:06:55
  In fact, I was very fortunate to meet Chucho Valdes.
• 2:06:59
  I even had a lesson with the great Chucho Valdez in his home.
• 2:07:02
  But actually, fell for us when I moved to Seattle.
• 2:07:08
  I was very fortunate to,
• 2:07:10
  Seattle at the time had a great, still does.
• 2:07:13
  But, there was there was a lot of gigs
• 2:07:17
  that were popping up, with salsa bands.
• 2:07:20
  And so I, you know, started playing with these, these bands
• 2:07:25
  and, and learning about the music and, and just really fell in love with it.
• 2:07:30
  And that kind of set me down this path of really immersing myself
• 2:07:36
  in, in Afro Latin music,
• 2:07:39
  music of the African diaspora in particular in the Caribbean.
• 2:07:43
  And it was really, transformative
• 2:07:46
  experience for me, you know, through those experiences.
• 2:07:49
  I mean, of course, the music is what drew me in.
• 2:07:51
  But then I learned, with these folks, sort of,
• 2:07:56
  helped me redefine what music means to me.
• 2:07:59
  Yeah.
• 2:07:59
  And, you know, and, and I came to understand
• 2:08:04
  that music is, is really about communication.
• 2:08:07
  It's about connection.
• 2:08:09
  You know, that was sort of like a ten year period in mostly in Seattle.
• 2:08:13
  But I did travel around as well.
• 2:08:15
  And then at some point, you know, the time came
• 2:08:19
  where I felt like, okay, now I want to
• 2:08:22
  sort of try
• 2:08:23
  to give back somehow, or at least,
• 2:08:26
  express some of these lessons that I've learned.
• 2:08:30
  And, and also, you know,
• 2:08:33
  some of the how these traditions have impacted me.
• 2:08:36
  And so that's when I formed this band, and I immediately knew
• 2:08:39
  that Jeff and Sako were the guys who I wanted in my band.
• 2:08:43
  Oh, I mean, how amazing is that, that you find two other
• 2:08:47
  individuals that are just as passionate
• 2:08:50
  about all different kinds of music and inspiration
• 2:08:55
  was definitely something that came to mind when I was listening
• 2:08:58
  to the latest album, invocation, that was released late last year.
• 2:09:04
  I mean, the album is all over the place, like in a great way, like in the best way.
• 2:09:09
  I mean, it's Latin, it's funk, it's it's super, super fun.
• 2:09:13
  But it also includes, like you said, those moments of of inspiration and
• 2:09:17
  kind of shout outs to, to those artists that have meant so much to you.
• 2:09:22
  Can you talk a little bit about Chick Corea and how the track chick came about?
• 2:09:27
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:09:29
  That that tune was written probably in the space of like an hour or something.
• 2:09:34
  Right after I,
• 2:09:37
  a friend of mine texted me at, and shared the news.
• 2:09:40
  That Chick, when Chick passed away, I believe that was in 2021.
• 2:09:44
  And it really, hit me
• 2:09:49
  sort of in an unexpectedly big way.
• 2:09:54
  You know, it was one of those things where I don't think I fully appreciated,
• 2:09:59
  Chick’ss influence
• 2:10:03
  and impact on me until I found out that he had suddenly passed,
• 2:10:09
  you know, but I always tell people that
• 2:10:11
  with that, there would be no when they leave without Chick Corea.
• 2:10:14
  Because for me, Chick, he was a he certainly wasn't the only jazz
• 2:10:20
  great to do this.
• 2:10:21
  But he was open and articulate
• 2:10:26
  to making those connections
• 2:10:30
  between jazz and
• 2:10:33
  music from other parts of the world.
• 2:10:35
  And of course, that's nothing new in in jazz.
• 2:10:40
  So that in my mind, there's always been this conversation
• 2:10:45
  between American jazz and music from the Caribbean, music from,
• 2:10:51
  you know, throughout the Americas,
• 2:10:55
  music from Africa, music from all over.
• 2:10:59
  But, you know, artists like Chick Corea have really sort of
• 2:11:02
  championed it in a way that was a huge inspiration on me.
• 2:11:06
  Yeah.
• 2:11:07
  Do you see it as kind of continuing to carry that torch?
• 2:11:11
  And is there a lot of pressure that comes with that when you're trying to pay
• 2:11:15
  tribute to.
• 2:11:16
  Those are huge, huge shoes to fill.
• 2:11:19
  But yeah. So I mean, in our own way, of course, you know.
• 2:11:21
  Yeah, we're we're trying to do our part what we can and it's
• 2:11:26
  it's yeah, it's certainly an opportunity.
• 2:11:29
  You know, because sometimes we get to travel to some communities
• 2:11:34
  where some of where, you know, folks have never seen a berimbau before, you know.
• 2:11:38
  Wow. And there's, there's always like a,
• 2:11:43
  a small crowd.
• 2:11:45
  And I would anticipate this will also be the case,
• 2:11:48
  at Ball State on, on April 23rd, where there's often like a crowd of people
• 2:11:54
  around Jeff, you know, on the intermission or after the show or just
• 2:11:59
  want to see what you know, what you know, because it looks it
• 2:12:01
  kind of looks like a bow and arrow. Yes.
• 2:12:03
  And and it makes this really, it's a I mean, he, for the folks
• 2:12:08
  who are listening, who may not know what a berimbau is, there's sort of like a,
• 2:12:14
  a metal wire on a stick that, and then there's,
• 2:12:19
  like a gourd resonator at the bottom that sort of amplifies the sound.
• 2:12:23
  And then Jeff, essentially strikes the wire.
• 2:12:27
  So it just makes this really interesting sound.
• 2:12:31
  And in Afro-Brazilian culture, I believe the, the, the, the belief
• 2:12:37
  is that the beat and bow is sort of used to communicate with the ancestors.
• 2:12:41
  Oh, wow.
• 2:12:42
  So, so it's it has a very, important
• 2:12:46
  spiritual significance in that tradition.
• 2:12:50
  And, and anyhow, it's,
• 2:12:52
  it's the instruments and of course the rhythms and all of these things,
• 2:12:55
  they're just great opportunity for us to talk about where these instruments
• 2:13:01
  and these rhythms come from, and also how we were introduced to them.
• 2:13:07
  Because all of this, we were, learned by apprenticing
• 2:13:12
  with masters from these, these traditions.
• 2:13:17
  Absolutely.
• 2:13:18
  Well, you'll
• 2:13:18
  you will be sharing that with, Muncie community audience very, very soon.
• 2:13:24
  For those who may be hearing the trio
• 2:13:27
  for the first time, kind of, could you describe the experience?
• 2:13:32
  What do you want people to get out of the show?
• 2:13:36
  We want to lift people up.
• 2:13:38
  Yeah.
• 2:13:39
  You know, essentially, I mean, you know, this
• 2:13:42
  a lot of this music, a lot of these traditions
• 2:13:46
  are, as I mentioned, they're from the African diaspora.
• 2:13:50
  And in particular the Caribbean, Brazil.
• 2:13:56
  And of course, as we know from history,
• 2:14:01
  the Africans that came to the New World did not come here voluntarily.
• 2:14:06
  Right. And it was.
• 2:14:07
  And it was a pretty horrific history in a lot of ways.
• 2:14:11
  And yet it was music
• 2:14:14
  and culture that helped folks survive.
• 2:14:17
  And so this which is just to say that this music
• 2:14:22
  is resilient, you know, there's there's resilience like that
• 2:14:25
  is sort of embedded in these rhythms that's embedded in these traditions.
• 2:14:30
  And I think, resilience is something that we all need right now.
• 2:14:34
  Oh, yeah.
• 2:14:35
  You know, because we're all I mean, everyone is sort of going through it.
• 2:14:39
  And in one way or another, you know, in our, in our,
• 2:14:43
  our stories may not look the same and our contexts may be different, but,
• 2:14:48
  you know, it's it's not an easy, time
• 2:14:52
  for our species on the planet, right?
• 2:14:55
  Yeah.
• 2:14:56
  So I think, we're just hoping that whatever,
• 2:15:00
  you know, that this will help folks,
• 2:15:03
  you know, feel recharged, feel refreshed and ready to,
• 2:15:07
  you know, engage, wholeheartedly with, with their lives
• 2:15:11
  and with the things they care about and the people that care about.
• 2:15:14
  Yeah.
• 2:15:15
  And I would also say just, you know, having those moments of collective
• 2:15:19
  joy are super important, too, right?
• 2:15:22
  Absolutely.
• 2:15:24
  Let's end our conversation talking about the word duende.
• 2:15:28
  It has a really beautiful meaning, right?
• 2:15:31
  Spirit, soul, a kind of emotional intensity in art.
• 2:15:36
  What does duende mean to you
• 2:15:39
  when you are on stage performing?
• 2:15:44
  That's a great question.
• 2:15:45
  No one's ever asked me that. Yeah.
• 2:15:47
  You know, it's trying to tap into.
• 2:15:51
  Yeah.
• 2:15:52
  Well, the duende, as you mentioned it, it comes from,
• 2:15:55
  Gaetano culture in the, you know, from the Iberian
• 2:15:59
  Peninsula was famously associated with flamenco music.
• 2:16:04
  And it's as you mentioned, it's sort of like this, almost,
• 2:16:09
  primordial kind of spirit.
• 2:16:12
  very grounded, like in the Earth and as opposed to,
• 2:16:16
  like, the angel and the muse that are more kind of transcendental.
• 2:16:19
  And it it's it's me and it's the trio.
• 2:16:22
  Right.
• 2:16:23
  So if we're we're trying to really listen, we're trying to create
• 2:16:27
  a communion or conversation on stage that then we hope will,
• 2:16:32
  radiate out and bring in the audience.
• 2:16:35
  Right?
• 2:16:35
  So that, like you were saying, it's that moment of
• 2:16:38
  of joy, or you know, you could say catharsis.
• 2:16:43
  That, that,
• 2:16:44
  can be experienced in a live performance.
• 2:16:48
  And I think it's one of the things that's actually really unique
• 2:16:50
  about live performance that is, it's hard to replicate that.
• 2:16:57
  I mean, of course, recordings are great.
• 2:17:00
  And you can, you know, experience that on some level through a recording.
• 2:17:04
  But I think just being in the same room, you know, with the audience,
• 2:17:08
  with the musicians on stage, it's it's a shared experience that,
• 2:17:13
  that that is really, I think one of the great joys of,
• 2:17:18
  of life and, and part of our birthright is as human beings.
• 2:17:22
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:17:23
  Well, this conversation has definitely been a moment of joy for mem, Alex.
• 2:17:27
  Thank you so much Me, too! for taking the time.
• 2:17:30
  I really look forward to seeing the group April 23rd at Pruis Hall.
• 2:17:36
  Again, thank you so much for joining me on pop culture.
• 2:17:39
  Oh, yeah.
• 2:17:40
  Thank you for the invitation. It's been my pleasure.
• 2:17:49
  Dunde Libre
• 2:17:50
  will make a rare Midwestern appearance at Pruis Hall on Thursday, April 23rd.
• 2:17:56
  Our podcast, on the other hand, appears weekly.
• 2:18:00
  Find Pop of Culture on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, the NPR app,
• 2:18:04
  or at Indiana Public Radio.
• 2:18:05
  Dot org.
• 2:18:08
  Do do do do do do do.
• 2:18:24
  You're listening to Pop of Culture.
• 2:18:26
  I'm Jen Blackmer.
• 2:18:27
  I'm Michelle Kinsey.
• 2:18:28
  And I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 2:18:30
  We are here with the Muncie Arts and Culture Council to talk about art
• 2:18:33
  for the people, a weekend long celebration of public art.
• 2:18:37
  Tania Said is the council's executive director.
• 2:18:39
  Kim Miller is president of the board.
• 2:18:41
  Welcome. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having us.
• 2:18:45
  First of all,
• 2:18:45
  can you give us an overview of what the weekend will have for the public?
• 2:18:49
  Well, the great news is that because we finished so many wonderful
• 2:18:54
  works of public art in 2025, we are going to have
• 2:18:57
  six celebrations and feature two others that we have.
• 2:19:00
  So eight in all over the course of Friday, April 24th and Saturday, April 25th.
• 2:19:07
  And I know that the work was paid for with, federal Covid 19 federal funds.
• 2:19:12
  How excited are you that, the community decided that that's
• 2:19:16
  what we wanted to do with some of those federal funds.
• 2:19:18
  It was a really great opportunity for Muncie arts and culture
• 2:19:22
  to listen to the community and see what they really wanted.
• 2:19:27
  So it's been really great
• 2:19:28
  to see the projects now coming to life and people talking about them
• 2:19:32
  and just seeing how excited the entire community
• 2:19:35
  has been to see these things happening in their community.
• 2:19:39
  I want to describe a few of the pieces,
• 2:19:41
  but first of all, could you talk about the intention of public art?
• 2:19:45
  Public art is different from, say, a painting, on a wall, in a museum.
• 2:19:49
  What's kind of the role of public art in Muncie?
• 2:19:51
  I think it's been changing, and I think that's really important to note.
• 2:19:54
  So we have a wonderful history in Muncie that has featured artists
• 2:20:00
  and public art throughout the city, and that has been really valuable.
• 2:20:06
  And it's been helpful for memorializing
• 2:20:09
  people and celebrations or different moments.
• 2:20:12
  But it's also been a very historical, traditional kind of approach.
• 2:20:15
  And what we're looking at now is something that is more contemporary,
• 2:20:20
  more representative of who we are and where we are,
• 2:20:23
  and what I think is most valuable is, representing the voices,
• 2:20:28
  because there has been so much community
• 2:20:29
  participation and all of those works of art.
• 2:20:31
  With this funding, we've been able to change it so it's more forward looking.
• 2:20:36
  The thing I love about public art is that it is free and accessible all the time.
• 2:20:42
  Doesn't matter day or night. There's no admission.
• 2:20:44
  There's no quote free day that, like so many institutions, have to have
• 2:20:47
  to ensure that they're accessible because it's always accessible.
• 2:20:51
  Speaking of that, are all the eight artworks that you're talking about?
• 2:20:54
  Are they all permanent installations or are some of them temporary?
• 2:20:58
  With this, plan, we have to have everything out for at least ten years.
• 2:21:03
  So the sculptures obviously will probably be much longer lived.
• 2:21:06
  And then hopefully with the murals, you know, they have a long, healthy life.
• 2:21:11
  The Muncie Arts and Culture Council will, upon completion, continue
• 2:21:15
  to own those works of art and that each one of these sites
• 2:21:18
  has in effect borrowed it or,
• 2:21:20
  it's on loan, so to speak, from the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 2:21:24
  And so together, we are responsible for maintaining it
• 2:21:28
  and ensuring that it's publicly available for years to come.
• 2:21:31
  Oh, excellent.
• 2:21:32
  Could you maybe pick one of the pieces and describe them for people?
• 2:21:36
  Since this is radio, as kind of a preview of
• 2:21:39
  this is what you could see for the weekend.
• 2:21:41
  The one at eighth and Hoyt is called Habitat Haven.
• 2:21:45
  It's at the corner across from the Common Market
• 2:21:48
  and across from the Addiction Prevention Center.
• 2:21:52
  And so imagine you're driving northeast on Hoyt, and you see these red,
• 2:21:58
  yellow and blue, pie segments
• 2:22:01
  that are situated in this small park.
• 2:22:06
  In addition to that, you see a swinging bench.
• 2:22:08
  You see some cement benches, places to sit, places to gather.
• 2:22:12
  And on this far wall, attached to the habitat for humanity
• 2:22:16
  headquarters are these different sign cutouts as well.
• 2:22:20
  So you start to get a feeling that there's a kind of momentum around this location.
• 2:22:25
  It's brightly colored.
• 2:22:26
  It has this sort of pie circular motif, and it feels like
• 2:22:30
  it has some action associated with it.
• 2:22:33
  And that's a reference to the gears and the automotive history of our area
• 2:22:39
  as well.
• 2:22:39
  The artist, Greg Mueller, really took time to consider how this could be
• 2:22:45
  the kind of, reflective, welcoming place
• 2:22:48
  that would be appealing to people both in the Thomas
• 2:22:52
  Park Avondale neighborhood and the South Central neighborhood.
• 2:22:54
  And anyone who visits from all over Muncie, Delaware County and beyond.
• 2:22:59
  Wonderful.
• 2:23:00
  Do you have one that, that you like?
• 2:23:03
  Kind of love them all, but, one that I really hope
• 2:23:07
  a lot of people come out and see is, the mural at Art rise.
• 2:23:12
  One of the reasons is one, it's very beautiful,
• 2:23:14
  but it also has a lot of connections to, our community as well
• 2:23:17
  that people may not realize.
• 2:23:19
  So, like the wall, you can really publicly see if you're on,
• 2:23:23
  Martin Luther King Jr.
• 2:23:25
  There's a lot of willow trees and the reasoning
• 2:23:27
  they're on there, they’re a callback to the willows
• 2:23:29
  that have been planted by the community down by the river.
• 2:23:32
  And so that's a really neat connection.
• 2:23:34
  But what's kind of hidden that a lot of people
• 2:23:36
  probably don't know about is on the very back side,
• 2:23:39
  there's a very beautiful,
• 2:23:40
  mural of two women looking at each other, one younger and one older.
• 2:23:44
  And they're so well done.
• 2:23:46
  And it's just really beautiful to reflect back on.
• 2:23:48
  I was reading the schedule for the weekend, and there are family
• 2:23:51
  friendly events, there's live music, there is light food.
• 2:23:55
  It feels like a moving neighborhood block party through the weekend.
• 2:23:58
  Was that intentional?
• 2:24:00
  Yeah.
• 2:24:00
  I'm so glad you said that,
• 2:24:01
  because, the idea is that there's something for everyone.
• 2:24:05
  You can do as much or as little as you would like.
• 2:24:08
  And I almost think of it like, what is that
• 2:24:11
  called, those kind of, gourmet feast, kind of Galloping Gourmet.
• 2:24:14
  What are those, like Progressive dinners?
• 2:24:17
  Progressive dinners, yes. It has a little bit of that feel.
• 2:24:19
  And in fact, there will be refreshments served at almost every location.
• 2:24:23
  So if you wanted to do it that way, you really could between,
• 2:24:27
  donuts, brunch, lunch and snacks everywhere it seems.
• 2:24:31
  But it is supposed to also kind of build so that you feel by the end
• 2:24:36
  that in effect, you've seen kind of an exhibition across the city.
• 2:24:40
  Wonderful.
• 2:24:41
  The schedule shows you've also added a live music
• 2:24:44
  show on Friday night to benefit Muncie Arts, who's playing?
• 2:24:48
  On Friday, April 24th at The Room five Piano Bar.
• 2:24:52
  We have a benefit concert that is going to be done.
• 2:24:55
  And, Mike Martin of the Common Market, whose businesses across from the habitat
• 2:25:01
  Haven that I mentioned at eighth and Hoyt, he suggested this 50/50 concert
• 2:25:05
  to support the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 2:25:07
  So in addition to Mike Martin and The Beautiful Mess, we also have Doc
• 2:25:11
  and the Little Chicago band and, a singer songwriter named Brandon Rodriguez.
• 2:25:17
  So the event is 21 plus.
• 2:25:19
  Everything else is very family friendly, but we encourage people to come
• 2:25:23
  to this 50/50 benefit concert and enjoy live music.
• 2:25:27
  And I think that's going to be a fantastic complement to the range of public
• 2:25:31
  art that we have across the city,
• 2:25:33
  because, you know, the Muncie Arts and Culture Council is about all the arts.
• 2:25:36
  And so to have this performing art,
• 2:25:37
  musical aspect to it just helps round out the whole weekend.
• 2:25:42
  And I also saw on the schedule for those who maybe aren't
• 2:25:44
  21, families, that there's going to be live jazz at one event and,
• 2:25:48
  there's going to be another local, singer songwriter at an event on Saturday.
• 2:25:53
  I like the interplay of of music
• 2:25:56
  and public art, so there's something visual, but something auditory as well.
• 2:25:59
  Yes, it feels like a party.
• 2:26:01
  Whenever you have music, there's a celebration.
• 2:26:03
  We want people to know that, this is not your, static art experience.
• 2:26:09
  This is live. This is energetic.
• 2:26:11
  This is about people and all this public art together.
• 2:26:14
  So for the weekend, where can
• 2:26:16
  people find the full schedule of events and all the details?
• 2:26:19
  So the best place to go is Muncie Arts dot org slash art for the people.
• 2:26:24
  We have a complete page devoted to the entire weekend's events,
• 2:26:28
  and you can also see snippets about each artist.
• 2:26:33
  Wonderful.
• 2:26:34
  Tania and Kim, thank you so much for bringing us art for the people.
• 2:26:37
  Thank you.
• 2:26:38
  Thank you for having us.
• 2:26:39
  I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 2:26:40
  Want more arts calendar?
• 2:26:41
  Now over to Michelle and Jen.
• 2:26:44
  Michelle, I think we're off to see the arts calendar.
• 2:26:48
  Oh, we are indeed.
• 2:26:49
  Indeed.
• 2:26:50
  We're going to follow the yellow brick road, first of all.
• 2:26:52
  First of all, to Andersen's mainstage theater for The Wizard of Oz,
• 2:26:57
  taking the stage Friday, April 17th through April 26th.
• 2:27:01
  Join Dorothy on her journey with the Scarecrow, Tin Man,
• 2:27:05
  and Lion to Emerald City.
• 2:27:07
  MainstageTheatre.org has the details.
• 2:27:10
  The fifth Annual Muncie Comic Con is Saturday, April 18th
• 2:27:14
  at the Delaware County Fairgrounds.
• 2:27:16
  The event features comic creators, cosplay contests, and more.
• 2:27:19
  Meet industry pros and celebrate
• 2:27:21
  your favorite comics in a fun, family friendly atmosphere.
• 2:27:26
  This year includes a children's area, a larger artist alley,
• 2:27:29
  and even additional vendors. More...
• 2:27:32
  Muncie Comic Con dot com say that three times fast.
• 2:27:36
  How about that, yeah. has more details And it's growing.
• 2:27:38
  Comic con is growing and it's great to see.
• 2:27:41
  Ball State's Department of Theatre and Dance will present the 25th Annual Putnam
• 2:27:46
  County Spelling Bee, now through April 25th, at the Oakwood Building near campus.
• 2:27:51
  An oddball crew of middle schoolers gather for the annual Putnam
• 2:27:54
  County Spelling Bee, where the words are tough,
• 2:27:56
  the competition is tougher, and the emotions run hilariously high.
• 2:28:02
  Bsu.edu/theatre is the place to go for more info.
• 2:28:07
  And real quick about that. Yeah.
• 2:28:08
  The Oakwood Building is a nontraditional space when it's actually in the gym
• 2:28:13
  in that old school.
• 2:28:14
  So it's going to be fun.
• 2:28:15
  And yeah, very appropriate for this show.
• 2:28:17
  And just so you know, to kind of orient
• 2:28:19
  yourself, it is next to Northside Middle School.
• 2:28:23
  Right, on Oakwood.
• 2:28:25
  Locked Groove Records will have a Record Store Day celebration
• 2:28:28
  Saturday, April 18th at the store located in the Ball State Village.
• 2:28:32
  The event will include special vinyl releases
• 2:28:34
  and reissues, live music, tasty beverages, and more.
• 2:28:38
  The event is from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
• 2:28:41
  And Monkey Jack's Emporium
• 2:28:43
  in New Castle will also celebrate Record Store Day on April 18th.
• 2:28:46
  The event will be 8 a.m.
• 2:28:48
  to 6 p.m.
• 2:28:48
  and will feature Record Store Day releases and more.
• 2:28:51
  Be sure to check your favorite record store for other events.
• 2:28:55
  And your favorite tasty beverages.
• 2:28:58
  The exhibit America at 250
• 2:29:00
  Reflections on Community, is on display at Minnetrista Museum and Gardens.
• 2:29:05
  It's a celebration of America's 250th birthday through Community Voices,
• 2:29:10
  an exploration of citizenship, belonging and identity.
• 2:29:14
  This interactive gallery
• 2:29:15
  invites visitors to consider what it means to be an American,
• 2:29:18
  and how diverse perspectives come together to form a vibrant community.
• 2:29:23
  The Anderson Museum of Art's annual
• 2:29:25
  InFocus exhibition is on display now.
• 2:29:29
  This juried photography exhibition features the work of Hoosier
• 2:29:32
  photographers in the categories of people, nature, wildlife,
• 2:29:36
  architecture, film, digital manipulation, and an open category.
• 2:29:40
  More than 100 photos are on display.
• 2:29:45
  The Del McCoury band will perform Friday, April
• 2:29:48
  17th at the Paramount Theater in Anderson.
• 2:29:51
  Del McCoury is bluegrass, performing from the Grand
• 2:29:53
  Old Opry to sold out festivals, including his own Del Fest.
• 2:29:57
  The music begins at 7:30 p.m..
• 2:30:01
  The Ball State Jazz Ensembles will perform a salute to video
• 2:30:04
  game music, Wednesday, April 22nd at Sursa Performance Hall.
• 2:30:09
  The sonic sounds begin at 7:30 p.m..
• 2:30:12
  Tell us about your sonic sounds or any other artsy events
• 2:30:15
  at Indiana Public radio.org/contact.
• 2:30:19
  Then click. Pop of culture.
• 2:30:27
  Support for pop of
• 2:30:28
  culture comes from Stallings wealth management and from you.
• 2:30:34
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 2:30:37
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 2:30:41
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 2:30:44
  So you are the reason local programing is still on IPR.
• 2:30:50
  Give today at Indiana Public Radio dot org.
• 2:30:54
  And that's our show.
• 2:30:56
  Our art director is Tracie Louck.
• 2:30:58
  This week was produced by Luke Jones, whose
• 2:31:01
  superpower is making us sound great every week.
• 2:31:05
  We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon.
• 2:31:09
  Our audio fellow is Maya Doss, and our show was hosted by me, Jen Blackmer.
• 2:31:14
  And me, Michelle Kinsey.
• 2:31:16
  Pop of culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball
• 2:31:20
  State University.
• 2:31:24
  [Blooper] Okay.
• 2:31:24
  Yep. We are.
• 2:31:26
  I'm testing right now to make sure we're recording.
• 2:31:31
  Yup. It
• 2:31:32
  looks like the Steph do you see like the middle one isn't coming up, though.
• 2:31:35
  Is that okay? because Alex isn't talking.
• 2:31:37
  Alex, could you say something real quick?
• 2:31:39
  Oh, yeah.
• 2:31:39
  Oh hello check check one two Yeah. Yep. All righty.
• 2:31:42
  Yeah.
• 2:31:42
  And then as you as you do it and do it and do it, you're like,
• 2:31:47
  you know, I'm up here, but I could do something else.
• 2:31:49
  I could break down that fourth wall.
• 2:31:51
  I could let the audience in and like, you're ready for that. Right.
• 2:31:54
  So I think that that's I think that's the way it felt to me.
• 2:31:57
  In addition to that, you see a swinging bench.
• 2:32:00
  You see some cement benches, places to sit, places to gather.
• 2:32:04
  And on this far wall, attached to the habitat for humanity
• 2:32:08
  headquarters are these different sign cutouts as well.
• 2:32:12
  So you start to get a feeling that there's a kind of momentum around this location.
• 2:32:17
  It's brightly colored.
• 2:32:18
  It has this sort of pie circular motif, and it feels like
• 2:32:21
  it has some action associated with it.
• 2:32:25
  And that's a reference to the gears and the automotive history of our area
• 2:32:30
  as well.
• 2:32:31
  The artist, Greg Mueller, really took time to consider how this could be
• 2:32:36
  the kind of, reflective, welcoming place
• 2:32:40
  that would be appealing to people both in the Thomas
• 2:32:43
  Park Avondale neighborhood and the South Central neighborhood.
• 2:32:46
  And anyone who visits from all over Muncie, Delaware County and beyond.
• 2:32:51
  Wonderful.
• 2:32:52
  Do you have one that, that you like?
• 2:32:54
  Kind of love them all, but, one that I really hope
• 2:32:59
  a lot of people come out and see is, the mural at Art rise.
• 2:33:03
  One of the reasons is one, it's very beautiful,
• 2:33:05
  but it also has a lot of connections to, our community as well
• 2:33:09
  that people may not realize.
• 2:33:10
  So, like the wall, you can really publicly see if you're on,
• 2:33:15
  Martin Luther King Jr.
• 2:33:16
  There's a lot of willow trees and the reasoning
• 2:33:19
  they're on there, they’re a callback to the willows
• 2:33:21
  that have been planted by the community down by the river.
• 2:33:24
  And so that's a really neat connection.
• 2:33:26
  But what's kind of hidden that a lot of people
• 2:33:28
  probably don't know about is on the very back side,
• 2:33:30
  there's a very beautiful,
• 2:33:32
  mural of two women looking at each other, one younger and one older.
• 2:33:36
  And they're so well done.
• 2:33:37
  And it's just really beautiful to reflect back on.
• 2:33:40
  I was reading the schedule for the weekend, and there are family
• 2:33:43
  friendly events, there's live music, there is light food.
• 2:33:46
  It feels like a moving neighborhood block party through the weekend.
• 2:33:50
  Was that intentional?
• 2:33:52
  Yeah.
• 2:33:52
  I'm so glad you said that,
• 2:33:53
  because, the idea is that there's something for everyone.
• 2:33:57
  You can do as much or as little as you would like.
• 2:33:59
  And I almost think of it like, what is that
• 2:34:02
  called, those kind of, gourmet feast, kind of Galloping Gourmet.
• 2:34:06
  What are those, like Progressive dinners?
• 2:34:09
  Progressive dinners, yes. It has a little bit of that feel.
• 2:34:11
  And in fact, there will be refreshments served at almost every location.
• 2:34:15
  So if you wanted to do it that way, you really could between,
• 2:34:18
  donuts, brunch, lunch and snacks everywhere it seems.
• 2:34:22
  But it is supposed to also kind of build so that you feel by the end
• 2:34:28
  that in effect, you've seen kind of an exhibition across the city.
• 2:34:32
  Wonderful.
• 2:34:33
  The schedule shows you've also added a live music
• 2:34:36
  show on Friday night to benefit Muncie Arts, who's playing?
• 2:34:39
  On Friday, April 24th at The Room five Piano Bar.
• 2:34:43
  We have a benefit concert that is going to be done.
• 2:34:47
  And, Mike Martin of the Common Market, whose businesses across from the habitat
• 2:34:53
  Haven that I mentioned at eighth and Hoyt, he suggested this 50/50 concert
• 2:34:56
  to support the Muncie Arts and Culture Council.
• 2:34:59
  So in addition to Mike Martin and The Beautiful Mess, we also have Doc
• 2:35:03
  and the Little Chicago band and, a singer songwriter named Brandon Rodriguez.
• 2:35:09
  So the event is 21 plus.
• 2:35:11
  Everything else is very family friendly, but we encourage people to come
• 2:35:14
  to this 50/50 benefit concert and enjoy live music.
• 2:35:19
  And I think that's going to be a fantastic complement to the range of public
• 2:35:23
  art that we have across the city,
• 2:35:24
  because, you know, the Muncie Arts and Culture Council is about all the arts.
• 2:35:27
  And so to have this performing art,
• 2:35:29
  musical aspect to it just helps round out the whole weekend.
• 2:35:33
  And I also saw on the schedule for those who maybe aren't
• 2:35:36
  21, families, that there's going to be live jazz at one event and,
• 2:35:40
  there's going to be another local, singer songwriter at an event on Saturday.
• 2:35:45
  I like the interplay of of music
• 2:35:47
  and public art, so there's something visual, but something auditory as well.
• 2:35:51
  Yes, it feels like a party.
• 2:35:53
  Whenever you have music, there's a celebration.
• 2:35:55
  We want people to know that, this is not your, static art experience.
• 2:36:00
  This is live. This is energetic.
• 2:36:02
  This is about people and all this public art together.
• 2:36:06
  So for the weekend, where can
• 2:36:07
  people find the full schedule of events and all the details?
• 2:36:11
  So the best place to go is Muncie Arts dot org slash art for the people.
• 2:36:15
  We have a complete page devoted to the entire weekend's events,
• 2:36:20
  and you can also see snippets about each artist.
• 2:36:24
  Wonderful.
• 2:36:25
  Tania and Kim, thank you so much for bringing us art for the people.
• 2:36:29
  Thank you.
• 2:36:29
  Thank you for having us.
• 2:36:31
  I'm Stephanie Wiechmann.
• 2:36:32
  Want more arts calendar?
• 2:36:33
  Now over to Michelle and Jen.
• 2:36:36
  Michelle, I think we're off to see the arts calendar.
• 2:36:40
  Oh, we are indeed.
• 2:36:41
  Indeed.
• 2:36:42
  We're going to follow the yellow brick road, first of all.
• 2:36:44
  First of all, to Andersen's mainstage theater for The Wizard of Oz,
• 2:36:48
  taking the stage Friday, April 17th through April 26th.
• 2:36:52
  Join Dorothy on her journey with the Scarecrow, Tin Man,
• 2:36:56
  and Lion to Emerald City.
• 2:36:58
  MainstageTheatre.org has the details.
• 2:37:02
  The fifth Annual Muncie Comic Con is Saturday, April 18th
• 2:37:06
  at the Delaware County Fairgrounds.
• 2:37:08
  The event features comic creators, cosplay contests, and more.
• 2:37:11
  Meet industry pros and celebrate
• 2:37:13
  your favorite comics in a fun, family friendly atmosphere.
• 2:37:17
  This year includes a children's area, a larger artist alley,
• 2:37:21
  and even additional vendors. More...
• 2:37:23
  Muncie Comic Con dot com say that three times fast.
• 2:37:28
  How about that, yeah. has more details And it's growing.
• 2:37:30
  Comic con is growing and it's great to see.
• 2:37:33
  Ball State's Department of Theatre and Dance will present the 25th Annual Putnam
• 2:37:37
  County Spelling Bee, now through April 25th, at the Oakwood Building near campus.
• 2:37:43
  An oddball crew of middle schoolers gather for the annual Putnam
• 2:37:46
  County Spelling Bee, where the words are tough,
• 2:37:48
  the competition is tougher, and the emotions run hilariously high.
• 2:37:53
  Bsu.edu/theatre is the place to go for more info.
• 2:37:58
  And real quick about that. Yeah.
• 2:38:00
  The Oakwood Building is a nontraditional space when it's actually in the gym
• 2:38:04
  in that old school.
• 2:38:05
  So it's going to be fun.
• 2:38:06
  And yeah, very appropriate for this show.
• 2:38:09
  And just so you know, to kind of orient
• 2:38:11
  yourself, it is next to Northside Middle School.
• 2:38:15
  Right, on Oakwood.
• 2:38:17
  Locked Groove Records will have a Record Store Day celebration
• 2:38:20
  Saturday, April 18th at the store located in the Ball State Village.
• 2:38:24
  The event will include special vinyl releases
• 2:38:26
  and reissues, live music, tasty beverages, and more.
• 2:38:30
  The event is from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
• 2:38:33
  And Monkey Jack's Emporium
• 2:38:34
  in New Castle will also celebrate Record Store Day on April 18th.
• 2:38:38
  The event will be 8 a.m.
• 2:38:39
  to 6 p.m.
• 2:38:40
  and will feature Record Store Day releases and more.
• 2:38:43
  Be sure to check your favorite record store for other events.
• 2:38:47
  And your favorite tasty beverages.
• 2:38:49
  The exhibit America at 250
• 2:38:52
  Reflections on Community, is on display at Minnetrista Museum and Gardens.
• 2:38:57
  It's a celebration of America's 250th birthday through Community Voices,
• 2:39:01
  an exploration of citizenship, belonging and identity.
• 2:39:06
  This interactive gallery
• 2:39:07
  invites visitors to consider what it means to be an American,
• 2:39:10
  and how diverse perspectives come together to form a vibrant community.
• 2:39:15
  The Anderson Museum of Art's annual
• 2:39:17
  InFocus exhibition is on display now.
• 2:39:20
  This juried photography exhibition features the work of Hoosier
• 2:39:23
  photographers in the categories of people, nature, wildlife,
• 2:39:27
  architecture, film, digital manipulation, and an open category.
• 2:39:32
  More than 100 photos are on display.
• 2:39:36
  The Del McCoury band will perform Friday, April
• 2:39:39
  17th at the Paramount Theater in Anderson.
• 2:39:42
  Del McCoury is bluegrass, performing from the Grand
• 2:39:45
  Old Opry to sold out festivals, including his own Del Fest.
• 2:39:49
  The music begins at 7:30 p.m..
• 2:39:52
  The Ball State Jazz Ensembles will perform a salute to video
• 2:39:56
  game music, Wednesday, April 22nd at Sursa Performance Hall.
• 2:40:00
  The sonic sounds begin at 7:30 p.m..
• 2:40:03
  Tell us about your sonic sounds or any other artsy events
• 2:40:07
  at Indiana Public radio.org/contact.
• 2:40:11
  Then click. Pop of culture.
• 2:40:18
  Support for pop of
• 2:40:20
  culture comes from Stallings wealth management and from you.
• 2:40:26
  You might have seen a federal judge's recent ruling
• 2:40:28
  against an executive order to defund public media.
• 2:40:32
  This does not reverse our loss of federal funding.
• 2:40:36
  So you are the reason local programing is still on IPR.
• 2:40:41
  Give today at Indiana Public Radio dot org.
• 2:40:46
  And that's our show.
• 2:40:48
  Our art director is Tracie Louck.
• 2:40:50
  This week was produced by Luke Jones, whose
• 2:40:53
  superpower is making us sound great every week.
• 2:40:56
  We had production assistance from Andrew Montavon.
• 2:41:01
  Our audio fellow is Maya Doss, and our show was hosted by me, Jen Blackmer.
• 2:41:06
  And me, Michelle Kinsey.
• 2:41:07
  Pop of culture is a production from IPR on the campus of Ball
• 2:41:11
  State University.
• 2:41:15
  [Blooper] Okay.
• 2:41:16
  Yep. We are.
• 2:41:18
  I'm testing right now to make sure we're recording.
• 2:41:23
  Yup. It
• 2:41:24
  looks like the Steph do you see like the middle one isn't coming up, though.
• 2:41:27
  Is that okay? because Alex isn't talking.
• 2:41:29
  Alex, could you say something real quick?
• 2:41:30
  Oh, yeah.
• 2:41:31
  Oh hello check check one two Yeah. Yep. All righty. a