Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / When You Know It’s Time to Let Go with Devi Brown

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When You Know It’s Time to Let Go with Devi Brown · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to land on your journey, a.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Space where we explore what it truly means to live
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: well from the inside out, not perfectly, but honestly, with
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: all the complexity, the paradox, the beauty, and the wonder
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: of being human. Because in a world that is constantly
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: pulling at us, this is the space to come back
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: to yourself, to your body, your truth, to the practices
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: that genuinely sustain you, the ones that work when life
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: is actually happening. This show is for the seekers, the creatives,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: the sensitive ones, for everyone doing the quiet, courageous work
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: of becoming whole. This is Deeply Well. Welcome back to
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Deeply Well. I'm Debbie Brown, and one of my favorite
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: parts of community is really being reminded that while our
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: stories are unique, we all have our paths. So many
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: of the questions that we do carry and the feelings
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: that we arrive at in our experience are shared questions
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: about purpose, relationships, healing, boundaries, grief, joy, identity, spirituality, and
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: how we navigate the very human experience of becoming. That
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: is especially evident when I hold retreats and we do
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: group share. I love leaning into group share when I'm
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: facilitating a retreat, and you just find that there are
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: so many fibers and so many links, and so many
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: breakthrough moments that we hold within for one another, simply
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: through our questions that we ask and through the things
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  Speaker 2: that we choose.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: To express about ourselves.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So today we're going to do something a little bit
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: different this episode. If you're watching on YouTube, which if
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: you didn't know, I got a YouTube channel, subscribe you
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: can watch these episodes with me and guests. But if
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: you're watching on YouTube, I got my headphones on. Definitely
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: feels like my old radio days. So today is going
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: to be a special episode of Q and A. We
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: gave the opportunity to call in to listeners on the show,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and some of you did and left me voicemails with
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: questions that are currently resting on your heart. So throughout
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: this episode, I'm going to be listening to questions from
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you the audience, and responding in real time. Well, I
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: don't claim to have all the answers, y'all. I am
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: a flawed human being. I do believe that there is
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: wisdom and reflection and lived experience, and in creating spaces
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: where we can explore life's complexities and questions together. So
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: my hope today is that as you listen, you won't
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: just hear someone else's question. You might hear an invitation
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: to offer yourself a little bit more compassion, curiosity, or grace.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: You might hear a question that resonates with something you're
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: going through, or it might be a question that's on
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the opposite end of what you're going through. So maybe
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: there's a little opportunity for perspective there. So thank you
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: for trusting me with your stories, with your questions, everyone
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: that called in, and allowing Deeply Well to be a
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: place where we can continue learning, healing, and ultimately growing together.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get into it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So to get started, I'm here in the Deeply Well
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Studios and I have my amazing producer, Denisha in the house. Denisha,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: let's start.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: With the first caller, What you.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: Got, Hive? I love your podcast. I'm such a big fan.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: You know. I have a very close friend that I
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: have known since I was probably around ten years old.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Were in our early thirties now, and I've been having
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: some really conflicting feelings about I guess how our friendship
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: has evolved and feeling as though I may have evolved
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: past certain things that she's experiencing, which is of no
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: fault of her own. And I would love to learn
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: a little bit more about or hear more about your
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: opinion on friendships and evolving friendships where there's nothing really
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: wrong per se. But maybe I think we are just
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: on different paths. And I want the best for this
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: person and love them so dearly. I'm actually feeling guilty
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: because I know that they can be doing so much more,
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: and they just deserve a life full of happiness, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: I feel as though they've just been stuck in this
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: place that it's hard to witness. And as much as
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I love them, I sometimes feel as though I'm almost
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: pushed away inadvertently. So I would love to know just
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: really about what you think.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Wow, thank you.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: How many people listening relate to that question. I'm so
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: glad this listener brought it forward. I think this is
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: something so real. It is something that, I mean, just
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: such a huge majority of people experience, and you really
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: don't know, you know, what is within your rights? You know,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: what do you really have the right to do when
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: it comes to some of these more long term relationships.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I would say first and foremost, and hearing
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the question, hearing the tone, you feel pretty clear on
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: what you should do. I think clarity really can arrive
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: to us in this deep knowing and understanding and this
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: clear vision, and then we wrestle with it. We try
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to talk ourselves out of it, We try to find,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the remedies.
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  Speaker 1: To fix it.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes we hear our intuition and we think that it's
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: God telling us the problem, because we're then meant to
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: go find the solution. And sometimes this solution is God
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: showing you what the problem is. And so I think
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: this in this you know, some of the things I
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: heard in that question were specifically feeling that you evolved
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: past a friendship and nothing is wrong, and that you
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: both are not causing harm to one another. Right. This
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: is not perhaps a drama, This is not some big fights,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: some big betrayal leading you to this position, but it
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: is a clear understanding that you may not be equally yoked,
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  Speaker 2: maybe in this season, maybe forever. But I think you
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: do have to take the step of faith in the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: guidance you're being shown and something that is just very real,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and I myself have gone through this, you know, on
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  Speaker 2: definitely more than one occasion, I think sometimes and this
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: advice is not applicable for everyone, but it is applicable
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: for the people that are deep caring and have very
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: empathetic friendships to where you may notice that you carry
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: more of the emotional burden or you are expected to
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: be the emotional regulator in a relationship with someone. I
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: think it's important to evaluate whether this person is in
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: a particular season, like maybe life is just hitting them
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: hard right now, or they've had a series of blows,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and saying to yourself, how can I honor
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: being their friend and honor myself and knowing that I
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: can't fix any of that, and I don't have the
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  Speaker 2: capacity or the bandwidth to be the sole person holding
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: it up with them, And then I also think it's
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: fair to investigate what do you want out of life?
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Like at the end of the day, it's it's absolutely.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Such a gift to find a friendship in others, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: we all have different experiences with that. Some people like myself,
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: meet a lot of people and have met a lot
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: of people in their life, and you know, I have
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: moved around a lot, so I have a lot of
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: friendships in a.
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  Speaker 1: Lot of places.
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  Speaker 2: So I experienced that a little bit different maybe than some.
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  Speaker 2: And then I think for some other people you might
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: have one or two deeply trusted important relationships and life
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  Speaker 2: teaches you through those you know handful of connections, And
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: for others, it may be that friendship is what you
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: are learning to have and hold with others, and you're
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: still approaching some of your first experiences with it. But
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I think wherever you fall on the spectrum, something that
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: all of us have a right to investigate is but
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: does this serve me too? You know, none of us
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: are martyrs, And you know, the amazing thing about friendship
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: is it absolutely can be and serve as chosen family,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: and it can also be like chosen drama and problems
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  Speaker 2: that only exist as long as.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: You choose to participate with it.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I think that's important to know that no
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: one is frozen in friendship, no one is locked into
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: this servitude. And if you take the time to investigate it,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying to react in emotionally immature ways, or
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: you know, if you don't get your way, or if
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: the two of you just don't have the capacity to
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: communicate and repair. That's a whole other set of sometimes
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: issues and skill sets that are necessary. But if you
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: find yourself having a similar moment to what this caller shared,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: really sit down and investigate it. This isn't just about
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: one thought. This isn't just about you know, a quick cutoff.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: You know, you still have to honor the relationship, even
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: with just yourself, but dedicate some time to it. I
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: had a situation in my past where there was someone
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: who I've been friends with for I mean a.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Few decades, but I felt like.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: The relationship just really there was something unsettling about it
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: for me, even though this person always kind of showed
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: up with you know, good energy. We'd hang out, we'd
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: have fun, we would share like nostalgic stories and you know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: silly kind of inner jokes, inside jokes.
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  Speaker 1: But I felt always.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Like I was doing more in the relationship in a
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: way that started to bother me, and not necessarily more
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  Speaker 2: in like I'm the one always reaching out and calling
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: because I'm not that friend, but I am the friend
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  Speaker 2: that's going to get in it with you, like you're
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: going to be good, you know. But I started thinking
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: back to the ways that we connect and it was
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: always like I was always paying for a lot, Like
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I was paying for all the lunches I was inviting out,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you know, to this trip, or inviting out to this thing.
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  Speaker 2: And and when.
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  Speaker 1: I looked at what could be reciprocal.
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  Speaker 2: In the relationship, it didn't have to be the same
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: level of like opportunity or financial investment. But this person
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: didn't even give me.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Like the best of what they did have.
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  Speaker 2: They didn't really look to incorporate me into their life
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: in any way. There was not a lot of reaching out.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: And if there was reaching out or visiting me, it
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: was also beneficial for them to do it. At the
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: same time, there was still something they were getting out
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of it that was good for them, pleasurable for them,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: socially beneficial for them. But when I looked at what
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I was getting, I realized that the nagging feeling I
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: kind of had was just the lack of equal yoking,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the lack of reciprocity, the lack of being resonating mentally
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: or emotionally. You know, we are very different people. And
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I really looked at it, and I was like, I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: don't know that we have anything in common other than
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: like good energy towards each other.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: When we're around, and it was really.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Interesting looking at that and it having taken place over
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: twenty years, and how easy it would be to misunderstand
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: that relationship as having depth or closeness that it actually
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: really didn't have, or having a level of care and
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: support for me that it actually didn't have. And so
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I think I'd approached this in a few ways. I mean,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the off top advice i'd say is trust your gut.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: You're getting that feeling for a reason. It's clear to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: you that you're not.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Feeling balanced in that relationship, that you're not feeling enthusiastic
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: about the connection, and that it doesn't feel like equal investment,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: equal yoking. So to that end, I could say, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: know the answer, head along your way and offer warm distance.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't have to be that there's beef.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: You can still cheer somebody on and support them and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: have the very conscious choice that you're not going to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: take on their lives for them because you can't and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: you don't want to. And also whatever has transpired in
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the relationship really doesn't call for that either. So I
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: think there's one way for it to be instantaneous. And
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: then I think there's also opportunity to do some slow
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: work with it and see who you become in the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: process as well. I've done that too, where I say, Okay,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I'm noticing that I have this feeling with this person
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: and I don't love it, but I don't fully understand
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: it yet. So I'm going to take the year to
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: investigate this, actually give this practice in my book Living
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: in Wisdom. But I did that with a few people
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: in my life before, where I said, over this next.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Year, I want to really just.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Gently but honestly look at the nature of this relationship
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and really see you what do I get out of it?
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Too?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Because we all deserve that. That's what relationship is, That's
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: what being in relationship is.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: There should be a give and a receive.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Always and every season that looks different and it's not
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: always equal, but it should be present. You should feel
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: like there is something about this relationship that means more
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: to you than simply obligation or pressure. And I do
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: think it's important, you know, if not just if someone's
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: in a hard season, but if someone fundamentally is very
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: different from you in a values driven way, is different
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: than you in terms of what they're giving to their lives.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: How seriously they take their lives, how much work they're
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: choosing to do on themselves. All of that is incredibly
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: important and valuable information and should be taken into consideration
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: for any relationship you allow into your private life. I
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: think at this part, at this point in my life
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: with myself, I have a very high bar for friendship
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: because I don't have a lot of space or time,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: and so the relationships that I choose have to be worthy.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Of investment, and it has to be a mutual poor.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I have to know that if I'm going to drop
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: things and be able to show up for you in
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: a hard time, you have the capacity to do.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: That for me as well, because we all have that.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: And I think you know fundament mentally where I've landed
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: when I choose friends, when I choose where to invest time,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: and when I decide that something is not a fit
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: for me anymore. Fundamentally, it drills down, honestly, at the
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: base level. Is this person emotionally mature. There is a
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: huge difference I've talked about it on the show many
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: times between emotional intelligence, which you know how to read
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a room, you know where the issues lie, you know
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: how to give your two cents how to analyze something,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: But there's a whole different set of skills that need
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to be practiced and embodied to be emotionally mature that
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: reflects true capacity. I don't have space in my life
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: for any relationships that I have to navigate to be
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: with someone who does not have emotional maturity.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: And so that for me as a value.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Really helps me understand where to invest my vitality, where
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: to invest my wisdom, where to invest my time. So
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I think also getting clear on what do you actually
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: have time for and what do you want your life
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to look and feel like. I don't want to always
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: be in crisis with others, right, I want to have
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: relationships that also really inspire me from the inside out.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be the inspiring friend in all
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: my relationships. I think for some of us that's important
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: to say out loud and realize a lot of times
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: you'll meet people that deeply admire you and want to
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: be friends or you know, feel connected to you, feel
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: inspired by you, but that's not necessarily friendship, Like both
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: can exist, but friendship also requires a whole host of
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: other things, And so I don't want to be in
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: friendships and relationships where I'm the only inspiring friend. You know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I want to be inspired. I want to be lifted
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: up as well. I want to seek wise counsel from
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: someone else. I don't just for me. This is for me,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: and we all have different desires and that's why it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: important you get clear on it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: But I don't.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of my needs are met and
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I have wonderful people in my life, and so for me,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: as standard is, you have to have emotional capacity to
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: show up for me when I need it in the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: ways that I need it to. And you have to
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: have enough life experience and enough track record of making
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: good choices for me to be able to seek you
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: out for your confidence, for your counsel. I don't want
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to just leak my energy anywhere. I don't want to
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: just cry and tell a story because someone in front
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: of me is listening, like I want to know that
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the person in front of me really has the capacity
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: to understand me, to witness me. Everyone's good at different things,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: so maybe to offer compassion, or maybe to offer insight,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: or maybe to for strategy. You know, everyone doesn't have
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: to do everything I need, but I need to know
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: that I'm able to get something out of it too,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: because I know what I give and I know how
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I show up, and I know what effect that has,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and so I think wanting or needing that in return,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: it's fair, it's valid, and you know, it's important that
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: many of us are friends with the right alignment of
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: person and I think.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That goes like across the board. So I hope I
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: answer that question.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, and please keep us posted.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you for this so much.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: My question is if you could offer any wisdom or
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: guidance that would help someone get clear on hearing and
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: knowing and being grounded when it comes to making a
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: decision to end a marriage or relationship. You know, how
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: do you get closer to knowing and feeling complete about
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: the decision. And this is when you know they're seemingly
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: to an outsider looking in like there's nothing wrong on paper,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: you know, it's it's all good, but ultimately I am not.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: And you know, I want to make sure that I'm
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: asking the right questions of myself, anything that I should
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: be pondering or leaning into within my body, to just
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: come to a little more groundedness and clarity around what
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: to do, especially with that with having a five year
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: old involved. You know this is not a decision that
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: you take lightly. And I know this one question. Won't
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: you know this is not the end. I'll be all
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: I'm just curious to know how you would think through
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: such a difficult decision.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you again, Oh, thank you for this question. Y'all
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: came with the heat. My god, I need.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: An hour for this one. Yeah, it's a big question.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: It changes the trajectory of your life. It changes the
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: trajectory of your child's life. I think off top hearing
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the way that question was worded, hearing the deep, deep
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: intentionality of it, some of the agony of it too,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that question, the answer seems clear for you what I found.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And I absolutely would not call myself a relationship expert.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I am a woman that got divorced after about a
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: decade of being married. I've been divorced for six years now,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and I've done a lot of healing in that process
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: and reflection, and you know, had the chance to really
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: learn about love in the last several years and in
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: special ways.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Hm.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: When we reach a level of exhaustion and defeat in
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: a relationship, I think that is a big sign for
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: your heart and your body. I think that is a
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: big arrow pointing to the way forward after you release
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: what feels like a burden. I think right now and
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: the way that you've shared that you're already approaching all
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: the right ways to ponder this and question this.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I would say that if you.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Are also in tandem working in therapy, make sure you're
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: not in therapy or seeking counsel asking how do I
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: stay in this? What do I need to do for
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: my marriage to work? What do I need to do?
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I think it's important for you to say, where am
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I hurting in this relationship? Is that fixable? Is that
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: solvable realistically? Based on the capacity that your partner holds.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's easy to get into these marriage circles and
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: marriage tropes, and I found this in my situation. I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: had terrible counsel from pastors, I had terrible counsel from
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: our couple's therapist. In all of those spaces, people always
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: are not able to give you real clarity depending on
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: how much work they've done in their own lives and
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: how they hold marriage with their own biases and their
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: own lives. So the work always comes down to you first,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and those are the questions you should be asking how
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: do you really feel in this relationship every day? What
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: feels alive inside of you? What feels dead inside of you?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Notice your body a big response that I overlooked in
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: my relationship as someone that had had chronic pain for quite.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: A while already, I didn't pay.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Enough attention to the fact that while in the relationship,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I was constantly inflamed. Oh my god, my health.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Was so poor, I was so fatigued.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: In a way that didn't align with what my lifestyle was.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I'd be kind of going through the day with so
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: much brain fog, so much musculature pain, constipated, even like
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: just inflamed, always getting sick.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: And depressed, and.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: That that is deeper than like we just have some
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: communication issues and like we need to figure out our
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: tools or our love languages. To me, that represents fundamental dysfunction.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: It represents this is not the right relationship, This is
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: not who and what I need to be next to
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: every single day. So I think you know, in relationships
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: and they go up and down, Right, all relationships are
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: are going to take a certain nature and a certain
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: amount of work. But do you feel alive? Do you
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: feel like yourself or do you not know who you
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: are in that relationship. Those are all important questions to
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: be asking, you know, am I my authentic self? Do
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I know what my authentic self is? Do I feel alive?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Do I feel suppressed? Am I biting my tongue? Am
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I triggered by this relationship based on previous dynamics? You know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: really paying attention to what is it that's bothering me,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: that's hurting me? What is it that is incongruent with
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: me and my life?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And write it down and really pour through the thoughts of.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: It, analyze it, find language for it where you can,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: and then say, you know, where else in my life
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: have I felt this way? Did it originate with my
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: family of origin? With a caregiver, with my mom, with
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: my dad? Like? What roles am I replaying in this connection?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: That it's just impossible to break free from? That is
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: just my opinion and my observation would be if you
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: couldn't get whatever this dynamic is to change between you
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: and a parent, it's not going to change between you
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: and your spouse. You pick that person to break free.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes when we are younger and you might have a
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: challenging dynamic at home, you don't have a choice. So
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you have to think it's repairable. You have to think
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it's fixable. You have to think there's a way to
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: find the exact right setting, or the exact right words,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: or behave the exact right way for.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: It to turn in your favor.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And I think what many people have found is that
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: just never happened, and it never happens and so but
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: what does happen is that you build the muscle memory
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: for it, and you get so practiced in that ability
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: that you bring it into all your relationships and you
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: get stuck in that same loop of if I just
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: change this, if I just fix that, if I find
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the words for this, if I can express myself correctly.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Then it'll open up. Then it'll change. No, it won't.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: It's just your highly practiced skill set and muscle memory.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: But it's not something that has potentially ever worked for you,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: So it most likely won't work in this situation. If
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: that scenario fits, it may not. I think it's important
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: with our partners if it's safe to do so, and
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: there's capacity for it to absolutely express everything that's inside
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: of you, especially with a certain amount of compassion, not pleasing,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: but compassion and clarity and grace and reflection, and then
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: it's also important to know that this planet has nine
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: billion people on it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: You'll be okay, you'll be just.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Fine, and you may be alone for a while, you
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: may be single for a while. So it's better than
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: being missile. Is better than settling your spirit in a
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: desert where there will be no nourishment that finds you.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: You know, there's no point in being in a relationship
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: that is not evolutionary and nourishing.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: That's really the point. I think.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: You know, if you dive deeper into two different wisdom traditions,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: especially Vedic belief, we can get all wrapped up in
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: karma and some of the lessons that are necessary to
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: learn with people. I find that fascinating too. I definitely
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: had a few karmic relationships in my life where the
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: pain was necessary and it set me free. But the
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: whole point was to break free, not to feel the
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: pain and find new ways to settle into it, or
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: find the discomfort and the suppression and find new ways
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: to just connect to it and survive it.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: That's not it.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: If that's where you're at, you got to go. And also,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I think we yeah, we can get a
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: little too, even with children, and focused on fixing it
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: with this one person. But there is a big world
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: out there with so many people in it, and there
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: is so much love everywhere, So more often than not,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: you having the space and the capacity to find, to cultivate,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: to grow your own authentic love for yourself that informs
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: and changes absolutely everything. And I can only speak from
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: my situation and having very very limited understanding of the
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: facts and the circumstance in yours, but I will say,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: as a mom who got divorced when my son was
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: two and he's now eight, it's the best decision I
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: could have ever made for myself. I was saying that recently,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And me and my son's father, I'm so grateful, you know,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: we have in these six years developed a great friendship,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: a great co parenting relationship. There has been so much
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: forgiveness and so much mutual understanding and compassion and support.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But it took a long time, and we worked on it,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and we had to change as human beings in order
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: to have it. And it is for our son, and
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I'm so grateful. We'll be family forever forever, you know.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: But not being in that relationship allowed me to be
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the mother that my son deserves. In that environment, I
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: was deeply suppressed. I was under extreme dress. It was
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: hard in ways that are still incredibly shocking for.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Me to process.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't have been able to be my authentic self,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and that I'd always be in reaction. There'd always be
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: part of my heart that I needed to keep private
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: and hide and keep, you know, just for myself. There'd
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: always be ways that I.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't be able.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: To let love flow freely through me, and my health
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: was getting shattered, and so.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Leaving gave me the space.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: To return to who I was, to who I am,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to who I'm supposed to be, which then allows the
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: flow of authentic love, of creativity, of energy to be
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: in my life so that I could really like give
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the best parts of me to my child twenty four
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: to seven. You know, if someone's around, if someone's not around,
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: and so my son.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Deserves that, and he deserved to see a whole mom.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And if all we need to do is explain divorce
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to him, you know, when he asks questions, and he
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: does always, which is great and fine, and you both
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: hold space for that. You know, it feels confusing for
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: young kids like well, why are their parents in the
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: same house but mine aren't.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Let me explain it to you, you know, in a way,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: in a way that your age can understand it. Let
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: me let me describe it like, yeah, it is different.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: That is true, it is different, and we both love you.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I don't need to upsell it to him. I don't
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: need to underplay it to him. I just need to
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: honor the reality of what's true in his life and
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: then also continue to feed and pour into all the
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: potential and possibility of his life. And so, you know,
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: people have said this so many times, you see it
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: so many places, like it's just it's more important for
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: our children, I believe, to see how to make honorable,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: good choices for themselves and to value their life and
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: their experience outside of some societal constructs. I think it's
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: incredibly important that allows them to be their authentic self
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and who they are and will part of their story
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: maybe have some sadness, some challenge, some hardship about you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: coming from a quote unquote broken home or you know,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: not having two parents in the home. Yeah, sure we
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: all got something, We all got our stories. None of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: us get through life unscathed. None of us get through
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: life without the thorn in our side or the challenge
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to be overcome. And so I understand that that might
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: be one of the things that my son continues to
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: ponder during his life and think about and explore and.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: See how that shows up. But what is true, He.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Has a mom that loves herself and that can give
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: him her all. He has a dad that loves himself
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: and loves him very much. And so I'd rather that
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: than two people that really didn't belong together, that do
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: not bring out the best in one another, influencing his
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: understanding of love and relationship. I think we both want
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: more for him than that. So just something to consider,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: you know, in your unique situation, with your unique life,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And thank you so much for the vulnerability and transparency
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: and bringing a question that is resonant for millions and
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: millions of people forward on this show. All right, just
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: like that, the episode has rapped. Thank you for calling
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: in with your questions. I love that I was able
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: to get through a couple. I hope to get through more,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and I love doing this. So we're gonna have more
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: opportunities to do that in the future. If you haven't
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: yet subscribed to my sub stack. It's called self Care Simplified.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of obsessed with it. I haven't been like
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: this excited about kind of sharing thoughts like this in
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: a really long time. So I'm having some fun over there.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: So join us and.
• 35:55
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• 35:58
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• 36:03
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• 36:07
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• 36:11
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