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Eligibility & Confidence · Yips and Giggles

• speaker-1: She finally realized that it was speaker-0: you speaker-1: this week has been filled with lots of news. You know, we got the Alex Earl, Alex Cooper drama going on. You know, as podcasts co-hosts, we were like, oh, this is... speaker-0: Very invested. speaker-1: The whole Internet is invested, I believe, literally the whole Internet. But on the sports side, I think we've got some bigger news going on, if I'm being honest. The NCAA released a statement which is talking about, you know, what we've talked about for God knows how many years now. But basically they're looking at changing the pre enrollment eligibility rules. that's, you know, talking about prize money. We're talking about agents, but. Anya, you want to get into it a little bit? This is ⁓ a crazy one. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, I think this especially affects tennis players, but basically the whole gist of it was there was a really long meeting on Wednesday, I believe, and the NCAA was looking at things that currently would make an athlete ineligible to compete in college, which was taking prize money over expenses and over, I think, $10,000 and then being... a part of a pro draft, right? And then also the number, like kind of related to that, but the number of years that an athlete would be eligible to compete in college. So I think the biggest one that probably is most interesting, or two, right? So now they're proposing a five-year eligibility window, either from the time you graduate or the time you turn 19, whichever one of those comes first. first, which is really interesting because, you know, normally it's... So basically it would be like, you can't have those people that are sticking around for six, seven years, you know? There's, we've seen players at Wake who, and in other schools as well, where, you know, they had a red shirt, they got injured, and... Which is totally valid. Totally valid, yeah. But next thing you know... Or we have players who are coming in as freshmen at 23 years old, right? Right. So... Next thing you know, you got like a 27-year-old junior on a team somewhere. And I think this five-in-five eligibility rule that I don't know if it's officially been passed yet or not, but it's definitely in the stages, would make it so that you only have a certain time frame to compete in college. On the other hand, this means that potentially there may be less roster spots for certain athletes coming in. If everyone starts taking advantage of finishing their undergrad degree in five years, what about the other freshmen that want to spot on the team? Right? So that's a consideration you have to take in. ⁓ I think the other really interesting one was the prize money of it all, right? If you were a quote unquote junior or before you came into college, you were only allowed to take prize money, I think of up to $10,000 a year, and it couldn't exceed your expenses for whatever that event was. Which specifically for things like tennis, golf maybe, right? Where it's more like individual sports and you can work your way up and enter into events if you're able to get into them. You know, sometimes we had really good juniors. get a wild card into the US Open or even get a wild card into like some of the lower level pro tournaments. And they can't take that check of... I don't even know how much it is right now. I'm not sure. $100,000, $50,000. A lot of money, right? And it's something that they're working for their entire lives. And if they want to compete in college, they have to forfeit the earnings. So now they won't have to do that. You can accept prize money. of whatever I guess you want ⁓ before college. During college, this rule has not changed yet, which I still think is a conversation that needs to be had, especially with NIL so big nowadays, right? Like, some athletes are getting paid millions of dollars just through NIL. And then there's, you know, other athletes who, again, for sports like golf and tennis, don't get that, as much of that NIL money, most likely. But... they're able to go and compete and work for a result and they get a good result and they're not able to take that money that they worked for versus... I'm not saying that the athletes that do get the millions of dollars of NIL money didn't work for it, but sometimes you see situations where the player is not playing all the time, they're still getting paid millions of dollars, so why can't a tennis player get entry into the US Open and win a round? and they deserve to take those earnings. And they're bringing so much attention to their school, so much attention to college tennis, college golf, like whatever other sport, and they can't take that earnings that they worked really hard for. I think it's still a conversation that needs to be had. But at the same time, you know, it is a business and the whole point is staying amateur. So. Right. speaker-1: Yeah, it is a tricky one. it is interesting when, you know, a college football player doesn't even have to step on a field and they get paid millions and you're over there. Yeah, no, I'm going go straight into it. I'm going to be honest. It's ridiculous. ⁓ but like, mean, you're actually like, you're winning a huge match at a huge tournament and you're telling me that. speaker-0: I trying to like sugarcoat it Yeah. Yep. speaker-1: You can't take that money. I know I get it. I get the whole amateur pro thing debate and all of that. But I mean, now, if you're letting people that are not even in college yet, take the money. What what's the harm in letting college players take the money? I don't understand that one very much. So I'm wondering if they're just going to circle back to that. ⁓ And I also, you know, with the whole five year thing, it's like, OK, well, Let's think about how that works. And again, they've put exceptions for ⁓ pregnancies, military service, or like religious missions. That's specifically what they put in the statement. They didn't say anything about red shirt injuries or anything like that. So are we completely getting rid of that? I don't think that would be fair in the slightest. I worry about that a little bit because I mean, speaker-0: No, I... speaker-1: For example, for girls, you know, it's very, very common to like, let's, let's look at like soccer players and in women's sports, it's very, very common to tear your ACL. And it's very easy to re tear your ACL. And that could be a whole nother, you know, eight months on top of another eight months. That's two whole seasons. So then it's like, okay, well, that seems to be a pretty legitimate reason for me to get a red shirt and have more years. You know what I mean? So that is a little bit of a weird one. And I also feel like it's like, okay, are colleges gonna have to be giving out full five year scholarships? How is that gonna affect colleges financially? speaker-0: Exactly. At the end of the day, again, I know I keep saying this, but it's a business at the end of the day. So how is that going to affect them financially? Are scholarships going to maybe not be as many full scholarships in teams, which that would affect the athletes too? speaker-1: Exactly. I could not have gone to Wake Forest without a full scholarship. I'm sorry. It's like $80,000 a year minimum. I, ⁓ people can't go to school. speaker-0: would agree. Get out of here. speaker-1: Exactly. Like, I mean, some people legitimately cannot go to school without having a full scholarship. So I do wonder how that's going to be, how that's going to affect the colleges and also the athletes coming in financially. Yeah. But also, you know, shout out to Reese Brantmire for actually like doing this whole settlement against the NCAA because. speaker-0: This is what kickstarted it right right like it it really gained some momentum and kickstarted it Again, like we said, I think there's more that can be done for like current collegiate or Athletes who are in college and the prize money acceptance and things like that But these changes hopefully are just the beginning of a lot of changes that you know again might make it better for college athletes ⁓ The one other point or I guess the two other points that I kind of briefly touched on with this decision is, again, the pre-enrollment athletes is what they're calling them. So athletes who are before college are now able to sign with agents, which is really interesting. ⁓ And the other one is the draft. So I think before prospects or pre-enrollment athletes were able to register to be a part of professional drafts, right? So like leagues have drafts and things like that. I think now they're going to be required to opt out of those those drafts except for the drafts such as ice hockey and baseball where there is no opt-in opt-out option. you can't choose whether or not you're in the draft. If you're a prospect, you're a prospect and you might get drafted. So yeah, those are I think those are the four main changes the draft, the agents, the prize money and then the years. speaker-1: I do wonder how the agents would affect things because I think that would be helpful in obviously gaining NIL deals and things like that. So that would be helpful for athletes, but I wonder if they would get involved with like recruiting and aspects like that. And if they're talking with coaches, college coaches, I wonder how that relationship would be. I've never really experienced that. So I wouldn't know. speaker-0: Yeah, I have no clue. I was wondering that too, because again, the agents are mostly for NIL purposes, right? Or again, your pre-enrollment, so just whatever sponsorship purposes. But then, obviously nowadays, the school you go to, sometimes a lot of it depends on how much NIL deals you can get out of it, right? And before it was athletes or parents, whatever, trying to figure that out by themselves, but now is it going to be through an agent? Again, it's like you run the risk of it just becoming a money over everything type of situation. But it does help to have that support for athletes. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. And I'm curious if they're just gonna keep adding and adding to, you know, the statement and keep coming out with new things in the summer for the next year and things like that. But ⁓ yeah, that was the big news this week. But I think in this episode, we're really getting into confidence and, you know, how it affects performance and things like that. And so we'll get into what confidence really is, ⁓ what that looks like on a daily basis, what a lack of confidence might look like, because Lord knows we know how that feels like. ⁓ We'll get into a little bit of confidence and theories in sports psychology, and then finally we'll kind of get into how to actually build confidence, which is very important, especially for those people that are going into college. ⁓ But yeah, if we look at confidence, I mean, Really, it's just a belief in yourself, right? A belief in your ability. And I think when you're looking at sport, a lot of it is your belief in your ability under pressure situations. And so, you know, for me and in a lot of sports psychology research, confidence and self-efficacy kind of go hand in hand. So when I look at confidence, I'm looking more at just a general belief in yourself. When I'm looking at self-efficacy, we're very much looking at a specific task that you have confidence in, right? So you kind of look at yourself and say, Hey, I'm, I feel good. I can hit this shot or I don't feel good. I can't hit the shot. So, you know, we've talked a lot of. speaker-0: I'm a big fan of the second one. ⁓ speaker-1: But even in the first episode when we were talking about anxiety, I think there's a very, very big link between confidence and performance anxiety because a lot of it does stem from your relationship with fear, right? And so we've talked about, you know, fear of failure and things like that. And so I definitely think you can really see a link between those two. So a lot of the. kind of techniques that you can use for performance anxiety can definitely go into developing confidence as well. speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. mean, if you think about it, when you're more confident, you feel more sure in yourself to make the play, hit the shot, whatever, versus anxiety, you're not able to, you're not sure of yourself if you're able to make the play, hit the shot. So they definitely go hand in hand. ⁓ I think confidence is such a like tricky thing sometimes though, because you run a fine line between, okay, I'm under confident, so I have performance anxiety versus I'm overconfident to the point where I might be arrogant and overestimating my abilities and, you know, maybe not preparing enough for certain things. This happens in like the workplace too in your everyday life. And then you underperform again because you were overconfident in your abilities. So you need to like walk that fine line and find that perfect middle ground of, you know, I am who I am. I know what I can do in my abilities. I know I can trust myself in this situation, but you're not walking around with like an inflated head, right? Of like, I'm the best. Not that like, like people, some people are, I'm the best and that's good for them, but not overestimating your abilities, right? speaker-1: Right, yeah. And I think it's very obvious. There's times when, you you see people out there and you can tell when they're confident versus arrogant. It's like, okay, you can tell that they truly have a lot of just trust in themselves, whereas some people are just making it a bit of a show. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that eventually kind of comes back to them at the end, but... I was going to ask you, who do you think in the public eye exudes confidence? If you had to pick out a role model that's very confident, who do you think you would choose? speaker-0: I mean, I think in the... speaker-1: you speaker-0: I think in the tennis world, like Sabalanka is super confident, right? Like she, yes, she'll have her, you know, little bouts of self-expression where she kind of, you know, loses her mind a little bit. But yeah, I think like overall, especially if you look at in ⁓ press conferences and just, you know, her social media presence and the way that she interacts with people, it's very like genuinely... speaker-1: She's gotten better at it though. speaker-0: I know that I can do what I need to do, but not in a way of like, and no one else is as good as me type of thing. you know, like, yeah, I don't need to do X, and Z because I know I'm the best when you're not like focusing on the things that you need to focus on. ⁓ I'm trying to think of like also a non-athlete. That would be interesting. Who do you think exudes confidence? speaker-1: I was just going to say, Sabalanka, it's also, it's not an arrogance like her. has such a good personality that it's like a swagger, but not an arrogance. And like, she's so confident in what she does, but she also is so big on preparation. Like I've listened to her mental and physical performance coach talk about their process and everything like that. And it's, I mean, it's down to a T like they're constantly working, even if they have like a off week, like it's never an off week. behind the scenes, like she's doing everything that she needs to do to be confident. speaker-0: And she's earned the right to have that swagger in the public eye because she's able to back up. speaker-1: She's confident. speaker-0: with her results, right? Versus people who are like, yeah, well, I know I'm the best, but like my team. speaker-1: She's definitely she's got the stats to back it up. But yeah, I think. This is the most random example, and I think it's because I just saw it very recently. But have you ever seen the video ⁓ from the Emmys when like Amy Poehler, Edie Falco from the Sopranos, Tina Fey, Melissa McCarthy, Martha Plimpton and Laura Linney, which, by the way, what a lineup. What a freaking lineup. ⁓ And it was yeah, it was the video where they're all getting called out for their nominations for their Emmys. And just like the camera pans to Amy Poehler because she's first and she just gets up and walks to the stage. Everyone's like, what is going on? That's obviously not what they normally do. Yeah. And obviously this is preplanned, but they still did it. And so one by one, they're each going up to the stage acting like they're at like some pageantry like type thing. And it is just the best video ever. And everyone in the audience is dying laughing and they get like a standing ovation before they're like the name. The winner is actually called. And I just think that is like I think female comedians have to be so confident because like I just feel like from the beginning, it was kind of like a male dominated type industry. And the women had to kind of like prove that they're funny. You know what I mean? And I just felt like that video just brings me so much joy. I'm just like, these women are amazing and they're so confident to just go up and do that. You know what I mean? Like just to go up on stage and be like, yeah, we're going to do this and it's going to be hilarious. And now I just listen to Amy Poehler's podcast and it's just like the best thing ever. I'm like, you're really. Yeah. Good hang is unreal. ⁓ speaker-0: I'm Amy Poehler, if you somehow come across our podcast, please, we would love to be guests. speaker-1: Or like, come on ours. Actually, we can't afford you, but... speaker-0: We'll show you a good time though, good hang. For sure. speaker-1: A good hang with giggles. That will be the title of the episode. So, no, it's just people like that that are just kind of like unapologetic and like, I'm going to do this. And, know, if however anyone responds to it, they're going to respond to it. But so I think, you know, confidence might look different in different settings. Like if you're a performer, like an actor or actress versus a performer as an athlete. But, you know, I think when you are an athlete, it's being really good at decision making and kind of like freely making those decisions without like overthinking anything. And I don't know, what do think confidence looks like to you from an athlete perspective? speaker-0: Yeah, I think what you said, Like quicker decision making, less rumination on things, right? So like you can bounce back from mistakes quicker and it doesn't like affect you as much. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, it's like, okay, I still have my ability. Like, let's just move forward. Like, I'm so confident in this shot, even if I miss it once. speaker-0: Yeah, like I made one mistake, it's not the end of the world. Like I can still do it again next time the situation comes up, I'll execute better. ⁓ I think it almost lets you take more maybe aggressive decisions, because sometimes when you have performance anxiety or lack of confidence, you tend to be more tentative with everything that you do. Again, your decision making, you know, maybe the way you react to things too. ⁓ And by react, I mean like physical reaction. A lack of confidence might be easier to describe because confidence looks different on different people, but a lack of confidence kind of presents itself pretty similarly across person to person. ⁓ Again, it's those things of like not trusting yourself, not making decisions quickly, not fully committing to a play or a shot that you're doing. Just that self doubt, right? Where you're like, is this the right? to do in this moment and then obviously everything in athletics happens within like a split second, right? So, you you hang up for half of a second and that could be the difference between making a good play versus a bad play. And I think those things kind of spiral into ⁓ negative feelings, negative emotions, ⁓ excessively being down on yourself after mistakes, right? Like not being able to bounce back from mistakes. And that kind of spirals into you're making more and more of those mistakes and the mistakes are popping up at easier shots or things that should be a no-brainer in a game or a match. And it almost gets to the point where sometimes you might have such low confidence that you've lost the game or the match before you even step on court or on the pitch. speaker-1: That's always sad to see too. It's like, you can just tell before someone even goes out there with like maybe the way they're carrying theirself or the way they're talking before a match. And you're just like, Ooh, that's probably not going to go well. And I think it's very easy to see in tennis as well, because, you know, we have such specific strokes and everything. So I think a good example, you know, you could go into the yips here, but I think For example, CocoaGolf and her serving, like she has been struggling with double faults lately and has for the past, I'd say at least year. ⁓ and so I think you can definitely see a lack of confidence just in general in her serve because otherwise she has had a very good serve in the past, like top speed, really good placement. And so it's tough to see when, when players, even at the pro level do have that lack of confidence and I think there's a couple of reasons why people can kind of get to that extreme, right? It's having those excessive expectations, which we've talked a lot about with the yips and anxiety and having that perfectionism and just demanding so much out of yourself that you do progress towards that fear of failure. So that's one direction that someone might be going towards. then harsh self judgment can be a big one. So, you know, we're humans, very, we have a natural tendency to criticize ourselves and sometimes it can be a little bit too harsh. And I think that can definitely lead towards a lack of self-confidence. speaker-0: And those two kind of go hand in hand, right? Like the self-judgment kind of comes from that perfectionism. You want yourself to execute perfectly. speaker-1: Right. It's all kind of adding to each other. And then there's also the sort of being preoccupied with fear. So not necessarily that fear or nervousness is the problem. It's more so your relationship with that fear. So are you just constantly dwelling on it? And that's all that you're thinking about. And that's when it becomes a problem and leads towards that lack of self-confidence. And then other two, I would say, are lack of experience and lack of skills. And so I think two of these are very easy to fix. Like the lack of experience and the lack of skills is a lot about just practice preparation, things like that. Whereas the other three are much more on the psychological side and getting to the root of that issue. Preparation is probably the easiest thing that you could do to help yourself, but a lot of people struggle to actually do that. know, so sometimes it is. it is just getting someone in that direction to kind of do that committed action towards preparation. But have you ever heard of ⁓ self-discrepancy theory? speaker-0: I have not, what is that? speaker-1: So, ⁓ so it was kind of developed by Edward Torre Higgins and he goes into basically the idea of having these different selves, right? So he talks about the actual self, the ideal self and the odd self. ⁓ you GHT. So what he, how that kind of connects to confidence is the actual self is the attributes that we actually possess, right? And then the ideal self is our attributes we would like to possess. And then the ought self are attributes that we believe we should possess. So there's just a little bit of a fine line between all of them. And so basically what that means is when you're living up to the ideal, it means you're achieving something that you've kind of desired, right? And then, whereas if you're trying to live up to the ought, that usually means you're trying to avoid some sort of like disapproval, whether that be from, you know, within yourself or from others, that gets a little bit complicated. And then it's interesting because there've actually been studies that say that athletes who perceive their actual self to be close to their ought self and their ideal self will have a higher self confidence, which makes sense. It's like, okay, well, based on the abilities that I do have, I feel like I am close to my ideal self, which is great. That means you're high in self-confidence. Whereas people who think that their actual self is quite far from their ought self or ideal self will have a low self-confidence. So that very much affects your performance. And so it's really that gap between the actual and the ought self that is going to lower an athlete's self-confidence. a lot of people talk about this gap, this confidence gap, and waiting, you know, waiting until the day that you feel confident before you start doing what actually matters to you. I think that's pretty powerful. speaker-0: Yeah. That's really interesting. speaker-1: Yeah. Cause when you think about it, like the actions of confidence come first and then the feelings of confidence come later. So if you're just waiting around to start feeling better, it's not going to do anything. Yep. You know what I mean? If you're just sitting around doing the same thing and you're not doing some sort of action that is working towards your confidence self, then you're never going to feel confident. I think people don't think about that. speaker-0: It's almost the idea of like fake it till you make it, right? Like you are not, and also you gotta think about the fact that no one is good at something, most likely, most of the time, unless you're like a super, you know, talented person. People, for the first few times that they do something, they're not gonna be good at it. Like, if I wanted to learn how to crochet, right now and I started crocheting right now, I would be extremely frustrated because I would not know what I'm doing and I wouldn't be good at it. But it's that thing of like, that's why so many people give up so many things only just after starting it. Like I think it's this immediacy effect that people just want something to change overnight or something to happen immediately and aren't willing to put in the work and stick it out. Mm-hmm to see the actual results So again like the fake until you make an idea in my head is like you're not confident You don't believe you can hit that shot Well, you just got to almost pretend like you are confident and at least go try and do that right or make that play Right, and if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out But you go out again and you try to do it right keep trying to do it until at one point You've done it enough times where you're like, I know I can do this and then you finally, you know, execute properly. And then you execute properly again. And then that starts to build up your confidence because you do have that, ⁓ that like bank almost that you can look back on and be like, no, I have started executing this properly. And then that builds your confidence and then your execution finally gets better. But it's not going to happen with you just being like, yeah, I'm not confident I can hit that shot. So I'm not going to hit that shot. until I get confident and it's like, well, you're never gonna get confident that you can hit the shot until you prove to yourself that you can hit the shot, you know? speaker-1: Right. No, it is a funny thing to think about. Like it's a little bit of a mind game, right? And yeah. And I also think like practicing the mental skills that you need to reach that level of confidence, right? Like you're not going to just wake up one day and be like, yeah, I'm good. Like, yeah, I'm, I don't have any perfectionism tendencies anymore. I have no self doubt. It's like, no, no. Like once you become good at actually learning how to kind of disconnect from that self-doubt and perfectionism, that's when, because of those actions, that is when the feelings of the confidence are going to come. So I just think it's, I think it's very interesting, especially with those different selves that you have that your mind makes up. And it is your mind making it up. It's not necessarily like a fact or a truth, but it's your mind almost playing games with you, right? speaker-0: Yeah. And so I wanted to ask you, so with the three different selves, the ideal self, the actual self and the odd self. So I guess the whole thing in my head, at least I would think, is to kind of bridge that confidence gap, you'd have to get, again, your actual self closer to your ideal or your odd self, like you said, right? Is that more doable by... I guess there's two ways I see it, and which one is better is what I'm asking. Getting your actual self more prepared and therefore raising the skills of your actual self closer to the ideal and ought self or managing your expectations a little bit better and bringing that ideal and ought self a little bit down so the expectations aren't as realistic. speaker-1: So I think it's tricky. think managing expectations is very important because having goals that aren't realistic is just going to completely lower your self-confidence all the time, But I think it's also very important to get, to not get super connected with your actual self and all of these different selves, because if you're just constantly thinking about, I need to be this or no, I don't have this. It's like, okay, well, Let's just like take a step back. Let's diffuse from these thoughts for a bit and then just use certain actions that we know will work towards our ideal self and do those instead and not worry as much about what, you know, what thoughts and feelings are going on in your head because a lot of the time the ought self, like I said, it's attributes that we think we should have. And so it's like, again, it's a little bit of a mind game and You know, we always want to work towards something better, like the ideal self, but we don't want to just get bogged down by those thoughts and feelings. And so I think the most important part is again, just, you know, taking your values and taking committed action towards a self that is more confident, but in a way that is realistic and helpful to the point where it's not, you know, dragging you down every time. you make a mistake or something, or you have some sort of setback, right? speaker-0: Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. ⁓ And again, I think that kind of goes into some of the techniques that we're gonna go into in a little bit. Like there have been multiple studies done. And again, like I understand it's hard to measure the effect of confidence on people. Like you can see it with the plain eye, but how do you measure it, right? But there have been multiple studies done where they're showing that people who had more confidence in themselves, tended to have increased performance anywhere from like four to six percent, right? So again, small number in the grand scheme of things, but if you think about it incrementally, that extra four to six percent of increased performance could be what gets you over the hump in a match or could be what makes you that, you know, one percent more accurate in basketball and you make like the game winning three pointer, right? you still do see a lot of the time, a lot of athletes do have good results, but it still seems like they lack the confidence. Like I was a prime example of this. I like, like I feel like I, I was a good athlete in the juniors. I was a good athlete in college, but I had a confidence issue kind of like my entire life, specifically related to tennis. And I think this kind of stems from just somewhere like deep down internally where it's like no matter how good I did, I almost didn't. believe that I was. worthy of that result, that I was worthy of being there, that maybe the result I had gotten was a fluke. And so I'm wondering, is there anything in research that shows why sometimes people do still have good results and still suffer from this lack of confidence or this decreased confidence? speaker-1: Do you feel like you had almost imposter syndrome? speaker-0: Maybe, yeah. Yeah, because sometimes I'd be like... It would ebb and flow, right? But there were certain times where I was just like, I shouldn't even be on the same court as this person or I shouldn't be in this situation. Like how am I here, you know, when I can't hit a backhand, you know, I can't hit a backhand, can't, you know, execute this. Like, why am I still in this match? Like how am I in the quarters of this tournament? Whatever. ⁓ And then that kind of like leads to a lot of... again, doubting of decisions and like internalizing of things. And sometimes I'd, you know, make it through the match and make it out, but sometimes it would obviously affect it. And then it would almost like confirm that lack of confidence, right? When I wouldn't finally get that bad result and be like, ⁓ see, I knew you weren't meant to be here. speaker-1: You're just waiting for that moment to kind of tell yourself, like told you so. Interesting. Because you did have great results in juniors and things like that. So that that wasn't really the problem because a lot of the time I would say like, hey, like, let's go back and like, let's get the evidence that you can do this. You know what I mean? ⁓ So I think that is interesting that even when you're getting the results, you're still like Should I really be here? ⁓ speaker-0: I still have the same thing at work nowadays too, where it's like, people telling me I'm doing a good job, like all this stuff. And I'm like, are you sure? Like, I don't feel. ⁓ And that probably is just something of something internal in myself that is just like deep down personality wise, you know, things that I need to work on myself. Cause different people, like some people just innately have speaker-1: You're just always questioning yourself a little bit. speaker-0: more confidence in themselves. And some people just innately have less confidence, less self-esteem in themselves. Like I think not everyone is like born the same way maybe, or it's a product of how like your environment is and things like that. So I think it definitely comes from that because again, like in the back of my head, I know I'm smart. know I'm doing a good job. I know I'm performing well on the court, but for whatever reason I'm like self-sabotaging in my head. speaker-1: Right. ⁓ Guys, this is turning into a therapy session for Anya. No, but it's great because it's giving us like a true, real example. And I think that's interesting what you said, because when you say people have innate confidence, I think that's interesting because I think it's also huge with your environment and how you grew up and how many sort of or how many external speaker-0: Sorry. speaker-1: sources you had of confidence. Like, so it's a little bit of that nature versus nurture debate, you know? ⁓ and so I think that is a huge part of, you have those internal and external sources of confidence? Because there is so much research on, you know, do you have kind of a multi-dimensional confidence base? Like, can you turn to certain things if one thing goes wrong? Do you have another thing that you can turn to that's going to keep your confidence going? Right. And so it could just be kind of having a lack of those internal and external sources. But I also think it would be really interesting for you Anya, if you almost build a sense of awareness. So if you kind of looked at yourself and you said, okay, how would you behave differently if you had confidence or what things would you do differently if you did have confidence, right? I just think that'd be really interesting for you to try one day. It's just like, okay, let's ask these questions. And you could even like take it back to your younger self. Like what would I have done if I had confidence back then and at work, what behaviors could I do now if I had confidence? You know what I mean? speaker-0: Yeah, not keep an email open for 40 minutes, rereading the same two sentences over and over again to make sure that I want to send it before I send it. That's definitely one of those. speaker-1: It's good example. speaker-0: ⁓ Yeah, I'll connect with you offline, Peyton. speaker-1: But no, it's so important because you're giving us a real real time example and people go through it every day. so, you know, when you when you were growing up, do feel like you did have a lot of sources of confidence or kind of what would you think? Like, I'll give you I'll give you examples. An internal source of confidence could be like, I believe in my abilities, right? I believe in. my ability to hit certain shots and, win this match. Right. Or an external source of confidence could be a coach telling you specific things about your game and giving you positive reinforcement about your game, but not just saying like, ⁓ be confident when you go out and play a match, it's more so building up over time during a practice and saying, ⁓ I like how you did this. and it's more focused on the actual process than the result that you got, right? speaker-0: Yeah, so I feel like I had those external sources of confidence, but I think the internal just really battled with that. Like, externally, I had those sources of confidence, but I also did have like moments externally too, where it was like, you you won, but you didn't win playing the right way, and that's not gonna fly in the future. And that probably started getting in my head a little bit and affecting that like... internal sense of confidence. And I feel like the internal just after that, really took over of like no matter what anyone told me externally, I didn't believe them, you know. So again, I. speaker-1: You were sorry. So you were almost like fusing with that thought of I'm not good enough, right? Like no matter what, that was what was happening because even when you were winning those matches and again, you'd get to the point where you lost in final. It was like, well, there we go. And you're just kind of like, yeah, yeah. You're like telling your mind like, ⁓ my mind's right. So I think it would be interesting. It would have been interesting when you were like a junior, if you had worked on almost kind of diffusing from those thoughts a little bit and kind of disconnecting from that and not, not holding onto that. And I think that does kind of get back to, know, your actual self, your ideal self and your ought self. And it's like, there was probably a little bit of a gap there and you believed that you had a gap there constantly. so again, it's just connecting when you get a little bit too connected with your thoughts. That's kind of when everything gets a little jumbled up and crazy. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, like like like I said in the beginning like it's it's walking that fine fine line right like yeah too much of a good thing can also be a bad thing right like to being too In your head and too connected with your thoughts can also be a bad thing like I'm really curious to hear about it now because because obviously like I've mentioned I still sometimes suffer from this at work too in my day-to-day life, but You touched on it a little bit, but how can we actually go about like bridging that gap and building that confidence, right? So we talked about those internal and external awareness and sources and things like that. ⁓ What are some other ways that we can, or techniques that we can utilize to help bridge that gap and build up a person's confidence? speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's again, having as many different external and internal sources as you can. Because if one thing is, if one thing goes wrong, you don't want everything going wrong. You want something that can back you up. Right. Right. And so I think it probably wouldn't have helped you in your situation. But I think for some people, it's really nice to be able to look back at previous performances and see they can succeed in certain situations. Right. So that might be just reflections, diaries, ⁓ could be monitoring stats and things like that, could be almost using like a role model, could be using videos. So there's lots of ways that you can do it. ⁓ So it's basically just like, it's just building up evidence that you have done well, and it gives you just a little bit more confidence in yourself. And so I also think it's very important that you do it. in a non-judgmental way and you aren't super harsh on yourself because that again can be a source of low self-confidence. So when you're looking at areas to improve on, let's not be super harsh on yourself. Like have a little bit of self-compassion to get through that. I also really like looking back at video because it gives a bit more of a detailed play by play of the things you did well and maybe some things that you need to improve on. But I don't want to call you out on you, but I a really good example of this was when we were in college. So our senior year, that was senior year, think, right? Anya, unfortunately was last match on for multiple matches our senior year, which is speaker-0: You My god. About a confidence like Drainer. Yeah, I lost all those matches guys. speaker-1: This is why I wanted to bring it up because so again for everyone that doesn't know in college matches you played a four There's a doubles doubles point that only counts as one point but then you need to win three more singles matches to close out the match and so there was like a run of like three matches maybe that Anya somehow was the last match on at 3-3 I felt so bad for you. By the way, I was over there. I was like speaker-0: We were playing like top five teams every single time. ⁓ yeah. So it's like it would have been massive wins for our team. speaker-1: It would have been, I'm so sorry, I should not have brought this up. speaker-0: It's okay. No, no, no, it's fine. Huge wins. I'm over. speaker-1: It have been huge wins. But you were playing line two at that time, right? speaker-0: Anything else? Three. speaker-1: Okay. I think you switched between two and three senior year. So Anya was at the top of the lineup. ⁓ and I'm not kidding. You played the points perfectly. You played them so well. You and our assistant coach had a great relationship and had great plans going into, you know, match points or, know, the last games of those matches. And I'm, remember seeing it. I watched it and you played great points, but then these players just hit these insane shots that they didn't hit for the entire match. I was just like. speaker-0: I remember looking over at ⁓ Andy and at you guys, just being like, where did that come from? Are you? speaker-1: You remember we talked about slang? Tried. Yeah, they were treying. ⁓ speaker-0: Like. speaker-1: It was so unlucky. It was so unlucky, but I did have a point to bringing up the story. I think it would have been great for you to look back at those matches. And you know, our assistant coach would literally say, Hey, you did everything right here. This person just happened to hit an amazing shot in the, in the amazing shots in those last couple of games. You know what I mean? And I think that would have probably helped your confidence a little bit more. speaker-0: Thanks speaker-1: rather than just like leaving it and being like, wow, I lost another like clinched, clinch match. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel like looking back at that and seeing how well you played and evidencing that is, would have just been so much better than just kind of leaving it and pushing it to the side. speaker-0: Yeah, I completely agree. ⁓ Those matches were really tough, especially after losing the second and the third one or whatever. The first one was like, ⁓ man, unlucky. The second third, you're like, man, what's wrong with me? I can't close it out, I'm letting my team down, all this stuff. But yeah, no, think going back to the video point again, watching things is really helpful. speaker-1: God I suck. speaker-0: on both ends of the spectrum, right? Like you, sometimes you think you played horrible and then you'll go back and you're like, actually, no, I did that great. You know, again, in the situation of those matches, I did that great, but you know, just got unlucky or the person did a little bit better. Like I did everything I was supposed to, or on the flip side too, sometimes you think you played great and then you go back and look at the video and you're like, ⁓ my God, like what was I doing there? You know, so it's just like, that's self-awareness, right? Like again. understanding that you're not perfect, that there's gonna be mistakes, and just understanding what reality looks like for you versus, you know, sometimes this made-up feeling that you have in your head of like, ⁓ I played great today, or, ⁓ I played awful today, and really, it wasn't as good or as bad as you thought it was. speaker-1: Right, right, exactly. Yeah, and you know, always take a little bit of time maybe before you actually watch the video, but just don't let yourself sit with it for like a week straight until you get to the next match, right? ⁓ Sorry to bring that up. It hurts. Anya saved us so many matches. don't get it twisted. Also, there's three other points that we lost and speaker-0: Just really just... Man, those... interested. speaker-1: You technically do have to get to that point. You know what I mean? It's all it's never it's never on one person at the end of the day. speaker-0: Sorry, one of them, I remember I was down a set in like five, two and I saved a match point and I got it back to the third. And then I lost like seven, five. Literally, why was I out here for another hour? Why did I get our hopes up? speaker-1: You're like, for what? this for what? Lord. Anyways, yeah, I think another thing that coaches can actually use, and we've talked a little bit about this with performance anxiety, is almost manipulating the training environment a little bit. So. Most coaches know their athletes very well, seeing as they're with them literally every day. So I think it's going to be specific from person to person, and I think it's important to understand that. So introducing some sort of pressure into training is always very helpful because you're almost going through the scenario itself. So they know that they can do those specific skills under a similar demand later on. Right. Right. So making it like we've said before in our first episode, making it as close to a match day as possible. ⁓ so that's definitely one thing that coaches can focus on, but I always found it really funny when coaches or parents or anyone who is trying to help you out was like, just be confident. speaker-0: I was like, ⁓ my god, I didn't think of that. Really? speaker-1: It's that easy! speaker-0: Now that you mention it, you're right. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Yeah, I think that kind of goes along with, again, what we've been saying, like the whole preparation point, right? Yes, there is the mental aspect of it, but also preparation plays such a huge role in helping develop a person's confidence, right? speaker-1: No, you gotta be specific. speaker-0: Like you practice certain situations in practice. You again, you simulate the environment so that when the time comes, you're like, okay, I've not like I've been here before, right? Like maybe not exactly in the same environment or situation, but I've been here before. I know what I'm supposed to do. And it kind of takes, it takes away almost that decision-making, which can freeze people up, right? ⁓ And then also just kind of more general like preparation of like, If you know that you put in the work, again, we talked about with Sabalenka, you know you put in the work, you know that you've done the things that you need to do, and there's no other lingering doubts or second-guessing in your mind as to, I've put in as much work as I can, and I've prepared as much as I can for this point, and now it's kind of just up to whatever happens versus sometimes when you're in a situation, you're like, ⁓ man, I really wish I had... prepared a little more for this or even if you're studying for a test, you're like, I should have studied a little more of this or, you know, spent 10 more minutes on this and then you start getting in your head again, creating that whole negative spiral. So I think preparation is just really key more in the like physical execution part of confidence. And then you got to pair that with, you know, the mental psychological things. And it just really helps strengthen that confidence. speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's as simple as making a match day plan. Like, yeah. You know what I mean? Like you're doing everything you need to do and not making it super strict so that if you don't get to something, you don't absolutely freak out. You know what I mean? But having like a set plan of like, OK, I'm going to do my stretches at this time. I'm going to listen to music at this time. I'm going to do my warm up at this time. So just having that in place. So one, you don't have to really worry about 10 other things before the match, also just again, knowing like, okay, I've done everything I can do. So now I'm just going to play, right? Yeah. speaker-0: I've gripped my, you know, rackets perfectly the way I want them to. Like I've laced up my shoes the way I want them to. Like I've filled up my water with electrolytes the way I want them to. Like that also all goes into like the match day plan and the preparation aspect of it. ⁓ Like my dad says this quote like at least once a week in relation to like various things, but like you look good, you feel good, you play good, right? Like looking good is part of preparation too. Like, again. speaker-1: Yeah, I would always have to do. I kind of like switch my. Styles throughout college, like at one point I was wearing a hat, at one point I was wearing a bandana, which is ridiculous. I was. speaker-0: We wearing bandanas together, do you remember? was a good time, we should have done that more. speaker-1: It was fun. And then at another point, I was wearing a visor. So it was like I had to have that in a specific way or else I'd be thinking about it. You know what I mean? And so it's just a little it's the little things that you need to make sure you have down before you actually go play your match. ⁓ But I think, you know, if we're talking specifically and going back to, you know, those reasons why you might have a low self-confidence, I think if the issue is let's say the preoccupation with fear, right? I don't think confidence is the absence of fear. I think it's more so, again, you have a transformed relationship with fear. And so it's not the fear itself that's actually holding you back, but it's sort of your attitude towards the fear. And kind of like I was saying with you, like, are you letting your thoughts of fear take over? and distract you from the task at hand, or can you use it almost as a source of energy in that situation and harness that energy and actually use it towards your benefit? And I think Olivia talked about this in our, our episode together where she was talking about her nervousness and everything and how she was automatically going to a worst case scenario. And then she was like, wait, I can actually use this like for excitement. Like I don't have to, you know, go complete doomsday on everyone. You know what I mean? So I think don't treat fear as your enemy. Use it as kind of something that can help you. And again, when you get caught up in those thoughts and it's not the fear, it's almost like the worrying that you're doing. And rather than just getting so stuck on that, it's almost like, again, do those actions of confidence first and. and do the sort of constructive problem solving that you know you can do. And you can kind of ask yourself, like, what can I do that's gonna help me effectively deal with the situation at hand? And I think the key word is effectively. You can do a lot of things, but they might not be effective. Anya, I think we should work on self-compassion. I think you need some self-compassion in your life. I think you're too hard on yourself. speaker-0: I think I do. do. think I do. I think I do. Kidding guys, I'm not crying. speaker-1: That's what we're going to get into after the episode. We're just going to have a quick session. speaker-0: You speaker-1: ⁓ Yeah, no, and I also think it's nice that you can also be a source of confidence for other people. Yes. You know, we're talking about the internal and external sources of confidence and having, you know, multiple different sources. And I think being on a college team is so fun because you can be that source of confidence and, you know, celebrate everything that you can with your team, the big and the little, you know, because. That's fun. It's just fun. And it makes people feel better at the end of the day. speaker-0: think also just being around other confident people and feeling like you're helping other people be confident helps you in turn also be confident about yourself too. Because it helps with your self-esteem, which self-esteem affects confidence for sure. speaker-1: I feel like when I was with our team, you almost like walk a certain way. Are you like, you're like, yeah, this is. speaker-0: Like, yeah, I got the swagger. speaker-1: Like if we're walking through the airport with our uniforms and everything and people are like, ⁓ my God, they play for. Like. Don't tell me that y'all didn't think that was cool. speaker-0: I don't I thought it was cool. I liked wearing the matching outfits, feeling like we're part of the team. speaker-1: Yeah, like you just have that and that's part of having confidence is like you feel a part of something, right? Anya and I are gonna go have a therapy session now. speaker-0: Yeah, this ⁓ this episode really uncovered some some things about myself that I really I need to work on speaker-1: Really opened your eyes a bit, I think. Thank you all for listening and we'll see you next week. speaker-0: See ya.