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The Health Uncare system | HBR Talk 413 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to HBR Talk 413, The Health Uncare System.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Hannah Wallin, here with nonsense annihilator, Lauren Brooks,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: who might be AFK at the moment. The personification of perceptivity,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Mike Stevenson.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hello, I'm just going to go and check in on Lauren.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Hang on.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: All right. Richard the Lionhearted.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And they doge in charge Brian Martinez working in the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: background to make everything happen. But you can't hear him.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I can, but he's not talking right now. That might
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: be pathological.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Or can't they?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: But before we get into everything happening, we got to
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: do what we got to do. And I'm going to
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: do it before I start talking about anything else this time,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: because otherwise it's going to be stuck in the middle
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of the show. As always, Honey Badger Radio dishes out
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a smorgasbord of thought-provoking discussions, and as experiences both recent
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and long past have demonstrated, the provoked thoughts are fighting back.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And provoked thoughts are becoming dangerous, guys. They've made it
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: clear that for people like us, relying on any third-party
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: payment platform like Patreon to fund our work is treading
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: on thin ice, or building our path into Our house
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: in the path of a rapidly growing wildfire. Should look
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: at the page and try not to do that from memory.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: In light of this, we strongly encourage our supporters to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: switch at least their support for us to FeedTheBadger.com, the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: most stable way to help us out. And if you
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: want to tip us directly instead of relying on any
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: social media platforms tip jar, the link for that is FeedTheBadger.com
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: slash just the tip. And as always, the same risk
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: applies to our social media platforms, which is why you
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: should further provoke the Thought Police by tracking our thought-provoking
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: discussions on honeybadgerbrigade.com, where you can find your way to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: all of our content, as well as a link to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Feed the Badger in the drop-down menu at the top
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: of the page. And speaking of feeding the badger, the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: mixed-up meet-up is day after tomorrow, and... We will have
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Brian and Lindsay and we will have Mike and Lauren
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: because I said so. Yay. We will be doing the
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: fundraiser through, well, whenever we get the amount totaled. So
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I had some credit. I used it. We are going
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: to have them here because I said so. But I'm
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: still going to try to get reimbursed by the fundraiser
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: because it is credit. It's not actually money I have.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So it's that or lots of overtime, which would be
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: worth it because I said so. Damn it. I will
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: get to see them. Everybody will get to see them.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: But me first.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: We'll get picks. Don't worry.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: We will get picks. We will show you the business
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: that we go visit. And then all of us will
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: give it a good rating on Google if we can.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Just because we're those kinds of people. But in the meantime,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: we will meet up. For everybody that's coming, we will
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: meet up at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Museum at noon.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And once we've met up, we'll sort of go through
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and see the neat stuff in the museum. There's all
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: kinds of jets and some rockets and a whole lot
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: of different historical relics, different things that have been a
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: part of Air Force history and flight history. And then
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: probably after everybody's seen everything they wanted to see, which
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: will probably be around four, it usually takes us three
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: or four hours to go through there and enjoy ourselves,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: we'll go to the next venue. And everybody that is
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: at the Air Force Museum will be told where the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: next venue is going to be. It is about a mile, maybe, drive.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: But you only have one turn after you get on
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: the main road out of the Air Force Museum. So
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: there you go. It's not a weird distance or anything.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So with that, like I say, go to FeedTheBadger.com to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: support the Badgers. If you want to support the Mixed
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Up Meetup, there is a fundraiser for that. And it
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: should be showing up on the front page. But in
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: case it's not, let me see if I can actually
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: give the link. It is feedthebadger.com slash product slash mixed
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: dash up-meet-up. And that's the link to the fundraiser. So
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: if you can support Mike and Lauren going to the fundraiser,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: or going to the meetup, please do so. We would
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: greatly appreciate it.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: At this point, you are reimbursing Hannah for her very
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: generous offer.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: We will already be there. That's... That's, I believe, a given.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it is. Plane tickets are purchased. The hotel
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: is booked. Everything is set.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Please donate so that Anna's generosity is reciprocated.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I would greatly appreciate it. So, like I said, otherwise
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it's going to be a lot of extra work. Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: But it's something that I could do because if I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: need to do it, overtime is always available with my company.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So that is a good thing. So don't go without
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: meals to donate. But if you got some extra bucks,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: think about us. And my page won't scroll.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: So there we go. So I can get things to
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: move around a little bit here. Because I said so.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: We were. Steer basically. We had read. I believe this part.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And we had not read this part. So. We are
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: going to finish. This article. We will go back and
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: look at a couple of other stories here. And then.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: When we. Finish this part of this topic. We also have.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: This is a. A. Foreshadowing? This guy's name is Shadowclaw.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: No coincidence there. Or no pun intended. But we're going
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to talk about this in his post because it was
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a very astute observation and people took it all kinds
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of wrong ways. I think some of them did it
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: on purpose.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: This is an old quote-unquote PUA. This is an old
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: PUA quote.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the women control access to sex. But they're right
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: And the new one is women control access to sex
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: and relationships.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's a degree to which that is true.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: But there's a degree to which it's not entirely true
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: because women control access to sex and whether or not
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: the woman is willing to be in a relationship. But
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: men can choose to not be in a relationship After
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: having sex with a woman who thinks that by having sex,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: she is entering into a relationship. And so men do
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: control access to a degree as well. They can say,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: this is not worth it. Juice not worth the squeeze.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I'm walking. And women get pissed off about that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, and on that note, a lot of florists are
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: being shut down. A lot of Jewish folks are being
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: shut down now.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: A lot of what?
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: Flower shops and.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Jewelry stores are being shut down.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Because they're not spending the money like they used to.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Not just from the relationship
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: end of it, but because there's a lot less frivolous
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: spending on stuff like that in general. But when we
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: look at this, my point in looking at this is
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: there's an attitude toward male sexual interest. There's an attitude
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: toward male loneliness. And it is if women are lonely,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: if women have a sexual interest is treated like it's
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: something sacred and special and, you know, it's mean and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: abusive to deny her. And it's mean and abusive to
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: shame her for it, even if you're not interested. And,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: you know, if you turn her down, you have to
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: be gentle about it. And it's just a long litany
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of things, of coddling women's emotions with regard to sex
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and relationships. But when a man has those same emotions
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and he's on the other side of the fence from
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: when it comes to controlling that access, He's the one,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you know, seeking instead of the one being asked. Suddenly
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  Speaker 1: he gets treated like those same emotions are completely illegitimate
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  Speaker 1: and they make him a bad person and there's something
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  Speaker 1: spooky and creepy about it, like a Hollywood monster trying
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to get into your house and kill you. And it
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: does drive men to suicide. And we've talked a little
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: bit about the mental health angle with regard to suicide.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: assisted suicide, what kind of safeguards would be needed to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: deal with this situation existing when giving people permission to
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: use the medical system to commit suicide? I think this
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: is a pretty big monkey wrench to throw into the
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: whole thing. This, in my opinion, is a circumstance in
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: which A person's friends and family should step in and
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: be supportive of his will to live and efforts to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: recover from being mistreated. But let's look at the other
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: things that we're going to talk about first.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to say all of this is despite
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: men's proclivity to solitude that's not quite comparable to women's.
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  Speaker 2: There are a lot of men. Who have no problem
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: with being alone.
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  Speaker 4: In fact, they can go off into the woods in
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: a log cabin and just live alone. Because being alone
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  Speaker 4: is not the same as loneliness. Loneliness is being disturbed
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  Speaker 4: by being lonely.
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  Speaker 1: By being alone. Being... Distressed over.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: By being alone.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Lacking company, yeah. Well, and lacking relationships.
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  Speaker 4: Not that it doesn't affect men, but women have a
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: much lower pain threshold when it comes to those sorts
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: of things. Because as we discussed on the Tuesday show,
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: or as I ranted about on the Tuesday show, women
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: are much more collectivist than men. It's in the genes, folks. Because, again,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: I shouldn't have to explain it. Men go off and
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: explore endeavors that they've.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Simply thought of. Whereas women don't hunt. They gather. They
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: create a garden of children. Kindergarten, if you will. And so,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: of course, women need to be more collectivist than men.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: And so this male loneliness epidemic isn't what it's being
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: made out as. It's not that men aren't alone. Men
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: very much are alone because they're surrounded by women who
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: hate them. The average man, I mean. is surrounded by
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: women who hate them and wouldn't even dream of starting
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: a family with them. And so men have gone, all right,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: I'll see what I can do on my own. And
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: men can deal with that. It's not a loneliness epidemic.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: It's an increasingly mass proclivity of men to just live
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: alone because they fucking enjoy it.
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  Speaker 2: We would like.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: To have a lifelong relationship with a woman who loves
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: us and respects us and all that. But it's becoming
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: increasingly difficult to find such a woman because such women
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: find a man very early on in life. They have
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: no difficulty finding a man who just wants a woman
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: to be nice and supportive. So the good women get
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: married off to very lucky men quite early in life.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: And the rest of them are just left with these
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: whores who think that murdering their children is okay. And
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: that's about where we are. So if anything, there isn't
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: an epidemic of male loneliness. There's an epidemic of female loneliness.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Because women.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Feel lonely.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: Just because they're not getting a consensus of opinion from
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: enough other women. Women feel lonely if they're not getting
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: supported by every woman in their local community. Men also
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: feel lonely, but there's very different thresholds. I can only
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: reiterate what I've already said. Men are feeling lonely, but
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: they deal with it better than women do. Women go
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: crazy when they feel lonely. When men feel lonely, they're like,
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: all right, I'll figure something out.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I would say that there's another epidemic.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Go on.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: There's not an epidemic of male loneliness. There's an epidemic
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of female bitchiness. And I know, Mike, you're very nice
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: to women when it comes to this. And I think
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the post.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: When you get into it. How dare you say such
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: a thing.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Especially for a MGTOW.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I am offended.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: My God.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: You should be. But when it comes right down to it,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the way that women treat men for the crime of
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: being interested. when the same woman will fuck around like
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: a $ 3 whore for the right amount of money, meaning
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: that he threw down this much on dinner and this
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: much on dancing or a movie or whatever people do
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: on dates when they're not being creative, and then turn
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: around and go on to the next guy or put
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: their profile up on social media for daters just to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: get dinner dates so they don't have to pay for food. Like,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: this is something that, you know, I see the female
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: side of it through very skeptical eyes. I can't understand
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: why women think that they're going to be able to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: just do that and nobody will notice. But in the meantime,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I am, I guess my reaction to it is that,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you know, men aren't lonely because just because women are
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: rejecting them men end up being sad hurt and lonely
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: when uh when women are cruel in the process of
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: rejecting them or when women turn around and friend zone
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: them for five or six years until they're ready to
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: settle down and hence the the meme um So there
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you go. If you know, you know. But all of that,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: we'll get into more of that discussion. That's going to
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: be at least probably a two-show discussion, too. When we
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: read that post and discuss this issue, I'm sure it's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: going to be longer than just us discussing it at
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the beginning of this show here. In the meantime... Um,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: we will get back to that. I do want to
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: finish this article and, and, uh, there's a few other
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: instances that are discussed here that I'd like to also
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: look at, uh, during this show. And then next week
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: we will, we will read, we'll start reading Shadowclaw's post. And, uh,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that may, it's, it's an article length post. It, it
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: is an excellent article. takedown of the situation between men
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and women. He wrote a second post, so I might
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: compare a little bit between what he said in the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: first and what he said in the second, but I
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: also want to look at the comments because there were
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: some people that really, like I said, they really went
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: in the wrong direction in terms of what they responded
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to versus what he said and what he meant. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think what he meant wasn't that difficult to ascertain,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: but you maybe need some common sense in order to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: get to that point. So, back to the article. Oops,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to open another tab. Thank you, Brave.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Can you hear me now? Yes, we can hear you now.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: You're out of brew.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that was a mess.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Because those don't work. I was going to say that
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: 304 meme. I know, I'm terrible at memes. I just
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: happened to run across that jar of mayonnaise in the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: grocery store on the shelf of things that are highly
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: discounted because either they're too close to their date for
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the store to keep them on their regular shelf, which
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: is what happened with that mayonnaise, or they're just not
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: going to sell that product anymore. So everything on that
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: shelf is usually half off or more. It just happened
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to be 304. And it looked nasty. And I was like,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I can't I can't leave that alone. I almost bought
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it just to bring it home and take pictures of it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And then I thought, oh, no, no, it has to
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: still be on the shelf. It has to still be
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: on the shelf. So I took the picture and made
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the meme. But that was perfect. Yeah. Every so often,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: you know. Every so often the Lord provides the perfect moment.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: That's so awful. But to completely darken the subject here,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: since we were sort of half into the dark and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: we're stepping completely back into the dark now. Let's see,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the guy that we are talking about is the second
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: fellow mentioned or the third fellow mentioned in the article.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And so Lewis, this is his family. This is the
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: young man, I believe that.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the 17 year old that couldn't explain to the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: doctor what was wrong with him, what was going on,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: what his symptoms were, because he was, I think, scared
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of a needle. And so before I go on to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: this part, I have to tell you, I have people
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: close to me that have this phobia and you don't
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: have to have an intellectual disability to lose the ability
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: to be articulate and explain yourself to a doctor in
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: a circumstance like this. I know a guy my age
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: who has, he's incredibly tough in every other instance, perfectly reasonable,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: sensible guy. But if you show him a hypodermic needle,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: he will pass out. It isn't something that he is
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: a wimp for. It's, you know, this is an actual, like,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: uncanny valley type instinctive response. And I've noticed more men
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: having this response than women. And I think it's partly
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: because men just are not accustomed to being as vulnerable
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: as you are to someone else when you allow them
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: to stick something sharp into your skin. And it just
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: unnerves some people. Some people, it's a lot more difficult
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: than just being unnerved. It's not even about pain. It's
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: really not. It's not a conscious thing. It's just... Phobias
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: are weird. And it's just got to be a hundred
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: times worse when you have trouble communicating already. You know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: it's something that, like, I would expect... if somebody already
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: had difficulty communicating and then they were confronted with a phobia,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: they would not be able to communicate in that moment
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: because it does make it difficult to articulate. It makes
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: it difficult to think. And like I said, I have
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: seen this cause somebody who otherwise you would never expect
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: them to have a fear of anything. This, this is
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: somebody who, you know, like if his, If somebody he
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: loved or something that he valued highly was in danger,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you'd expect him to face down a lion. But come
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: near him with a hypodermic needle and he will pass out.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have control over it. It's not a matter
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: of him being upset. It just does that to him. So,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: official reverse traditionalism channel gave us two examples. $ 5 super
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: chows that I missed here. Oh, that's because one of
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: them was at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. So this
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: is a Latino question for Brian. Are you more offended
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: by the feminists who push the Latinx stuff or by
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the feminists who call themselves anarcho-feminists instead of anarcho? I'm
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: not sure if Brian's listening. So I'll have to ask him.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Brian, if you are listening, interrupt me.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Because if I just stop talking, there's going to be
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: dead air because they can't hear Brian. They can't hear you.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: That all sounds really stupid to me, though. Yeah, but.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I'm only 11 percent.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I'm here and I turn my volume on. OK, probably
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: an ARCA because they don't know what anarchy is. And
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: that's a little bit offense, but I'm generally not offended
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: by stupidity.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Just disappointed.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: So.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And they can hear you okay all right so then
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: i don't have to repeat what everything brian just said
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: uh then the next one is for doc five dollars
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: uh for the uh super chow and the question is
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a mental health question for doc when gavin mcginnis told
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: men you're supposed to be building a table or something
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that accidentally very compatible with Tom Golden's model of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: how men often heal through work?
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: They're asking you a question. You're going to have to
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: give them a minute.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a neat question. It's funny. We talked about
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that with Tom Golden on the show I want to
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: say back when we were on blog talk, because we
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: talked about men's sheds and how important men's sheds are
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to therapy for men, where rather than going and sitting
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: and talking to some 20 something chick that just got
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: out of college with some sort of major that that
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: touches psychology they get to actually stand shoulder to shoulder
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: with guys that might have experience in the area that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: they are now dealing with and struggling with and i
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: think it makes a big difference for a lot of
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: guys the guys that i have seen go through trauma
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: um the way that they have you know helped each
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: other and and family members have helped them through trauma
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and that they've helped themselves through trauma is to work
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: on a project and, you know, talk each other through
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the situation sort of around the project and not, it's
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: not always direct. You know, I've noticed a lot of
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: times guys, When they're talking around a project like that,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: they don't necessarily say, when your wife is cheating on you,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: here's how to handle it. They'll relate the statement to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: something to do with the project. And maybe they'll have
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: some direct things they say. But a lot of times
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the epiphanies are not covert, just connected with the physical labor.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: And it was, it's kind of an interesting difference. Women
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: have this weird way of, they have to poke at
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the sore spot and they have to have someone else
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: understand what the sore spot is and, and how the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: pain feels. Um, but if you start addressing the causes
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and the potential solutions and, um, Even if you're talking
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: in metaphors like that, they get very upset because you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: didn't spend enough time acknowledging the sore spot they were
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: poking at and how sore it is. So when I
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: went into therapy and I had my first therapist was
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: female and she expected me to do that. And I
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: expected solutions. I wanted to get better and go back
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: to doing the things I was doing before I started,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you know, having my, the butt of my brain dragging
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: on the ground behind me. I wanted to be up
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and working and, uh, she didn't know what to do
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: with me. So she sent me to a Korean doctor
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and he helped. Honestly, that is literally what happened. Um,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: She couldn't, she couldn't handle an American woman who acted,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: didn't act like an American woman. And so she sent
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: me to a Korean because he would understand. And a
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Korean male, by the way, because he would understand. Is
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Mike back yet?
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he should be back over there. Yes.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: OK, I'm you're good.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: You're good.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to know something about Gavin Newsom.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm about to tell you the question. Okay. Well, did
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you hear the question, actually, before I go reading it?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I heard something about Gavin Newsom.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. No, not Gavin Newsom. Very much
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: not Gavin Newsom. So mental health question for Doc from
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Official Reverse Traditionalism Channel. When Gavin McInnes told men you're
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: supposed to be building a table or something, wasn't that
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: accidentally very compatible with Tom Golden's model of how men
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: heal through work?
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Well, men are supposed to is, in almost all cases,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: a case of the sposeders. That's a Simpsons reference. Yeah.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Men can do anything they like to.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Support their families, or even anything they like just to
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: support themselves.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, is there... One is an avenue to another.
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: Like, yes, a carpenter is something that men traditionally do.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: Name me something that men don't traditionally do. Raising children? No, yeah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: I think men should raise children. What have we been
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: talking about for the last three weeks?
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, men can....
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: If men want to build tables, by all means build tables.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: But men can do anything. Literally anything.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Except gestate children. They can look after them.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: Just as well as women do, if not considerably less
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: likely to murder them. So, who are you to tell
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: anyone what a man is? I will repeat what I
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: said to someone a long time ago. The amount of
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: shit I give about what you say a man is
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: is an amount that made Max Planck shit himself for
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: three days and rethink his life. Max Planck is a
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: man who discovered the tiniest possible particles.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: That's how that joke works.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: Men can do anything, so don't be telling me what
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: a man is. The man is actually anything except a
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: human who can gestate another human.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Except a woman. But in any case, sometimes when people
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: try to make those statements, they get onto something that
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: they didn't actually mean to say. Like Tom Golden has
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: explained the male rejection of the feminine talk therapy model
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: for dealing with trauma. pretty well and It's not always men.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I I rejected that model too. I
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Like I'll talk about that stuff if there's a reason
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to talk about it There's something to be gleaned from
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: it right that can can help but I Don't the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the thing of sitting and talking to a therapist like
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I have this problem and it makes me sad and
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: here's how Here's how long it's been going on and
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: this is how much it hurts and blah blah. I
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: can't do that. I Like, I can't even, I wouldn't
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: even want to do that if my husband wouldn't be
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: bothered by it. Like, he would, you know, if I
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: have a problem and I talk to him about it,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: if I wouldn't listen to solutions and, you know, which
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: is what I'm usually going for when I ask him
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: about a problem. It's like, I've tried everything. Can you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: give me some ideas? Did you see my tweet about that?
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: You just had what?
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: I did a tweet, I did a post about that,
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: like a while ago.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, you just did a post about that, huh? About
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: not having a desire to talk about the problems?
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so if a woman wants a solution to her battle,
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: say you don't want a solution, because men don't have
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: the capacity to give that information.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Well, sometimes he does. A lot of times he does.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: My husband's better with people than I am, in general. Um,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: So sometimes and sometimes like sometimes I'm really dumb about
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: how to deal with people, especially other women. And I
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: will think that some other woman and I have had
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: a perfectly normal interaction when actually we just had a
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: major battle in feminine war, you know, 6428 in our workplace.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: And I didn't even know we had a fight. So
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: then when there's fallout later on, I go to him
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what'd I do? And he usually is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: able to give me enough insight that I can fix
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: whatever problem was caused by my not understanding the situation.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And all that time that I always just thought, yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I'm socially awkward and I've given up on it. I'm
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: completely giving up on it. I even wrote a post
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: about that. on the Honey Badger Brigade blog. Not kidding.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: The whole article is supported. The scaffolding underneath the other
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: things I'm saying in the article is my explanation of
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: my social awkwardness. I grew up as a nerd when
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: it wasn't cool to be a nerd. I was fortunate.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I grew up with a lot of really nice kids
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that didn't beat me up for being a nerd. Um, but, uh, yeah, it,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: it's sometimes you do need advice from, from a dude,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: like how to deal with other people. If you're like me,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: you do. Uh, so yeah, I think a lot of
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: women might be, you know, more predictable based on what
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: you were saying, Richard, but I'm a weirdo, so I'm not.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: I posted the.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: You posted the what?
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I posted the tweet and the Discord message.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Ah, okay. Okie dokie. And we'll look here. Would help
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: if I was in the right Discord chat. I'm always
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in the wrong Discord chat, too. The tweet is... Oh,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I see. I was reading the wrong one. No to women.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Don't have the emotional storage to listen to a full
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: diatribe about your daily problems. You know what's really cool
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: when you're married is that you can sit together in
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: the living room doing things like you're three feet apart
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: maybe sitting in chairs or on a couch cuddling and
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: you don't say a word for like two or three
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: hours at a time just enjoy each other's company maybe
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: watch something on on the boob tube together sometimes boobs
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and uh you know if not like doing doing parallel
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: activities like kids doing parallel play when when you're not
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: doing uh other things obviously but uh i don't know
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: maybe some marriages aren't like that.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: For the longest time, men and women didn't even know
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: how to talk.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Did you all know this? Males and females of, let
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: me see now, every species ever got along with each
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: other just fine without having to yak bullshit.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: No languages, or no speech languages anyway. Body language has
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: always existed.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, exactly. Body language.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: Like, the sense of touch, the mechanical senses came before
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: anything else. Most of our senses are mechanical. There's not
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: just five. There's loads. There's, like, hunger, thirst, balance, proprioception,
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: haptic thing. Communicating through words is one of the very
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: latest inventions that we have access to, and they are inventions.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: We have many ways of communicating with each other that
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: were not even inventions. They are evolutionary instincts.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: But when those kind of got replaced by language, we
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: ended up with a problem. And what official reverse traditionalism
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: channel brought up and what we've been talking about is
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: related to this story in a way, Reverse Trad actually
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: asked a question and then in the chat that I
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: think is relevant too. But do women actually quote, need
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: this kind of, quote, girl talking therapy either? Hannah seems
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: to be saying no. And the answer is a really
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: well-kept secret, apparently. So, you know, when you are in
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: a place where there's a crowd of people And there's
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: an object, you know, that's maybe out of place. And
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: something needs to be done about it. But nobody wants
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: to take responsibility for it. Very similar, the same situation
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that Douglas Adams describes in the somebody else's problem force
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: field description, where people will suddenly not be able to
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: see it. It's very important to not notice the thing,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: because if you notice the thing, it becomes your responsibility.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: You don't want to be responsible for the thing, so
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: it doesn't exist anymore. And as a result, as soon
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: as you put up somebody else's problem field around something,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: it's hidden pretty well. And I've noticed those in every workplace.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Women are that way with regard to causes and solutions
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: of their problems. that involve them having to take responsibility
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: as well. And so they will talk endlessly about their
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: suffering because that is the thing that's bothering them. And
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: they want sympathy for their suffering. And they want you
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: to do things for them. And they want the illusion.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: They want to have the illusion, right? That you... And
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: they have worked on the problem, and now they are
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: doing their part to solve the problem. But they don't
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: want to do the actual labor, mental labor, of addressing
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and solving the problem. So, for instance, I'm fat. I'm
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: not as fat as I was six months ago, but
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I'm still fat. I don't like it. And I don't
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: want to be fat. It sucks. It makes my hips hurt.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: It makes my knees hurt. It makes my cheeks look funny.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. Right?
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Which.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I can say because I'm autistic and it doesn't hurt
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: my feelings to say any of that shit, right? It
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't hurt my feelings if somebody else says it because
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: I don't care. It's true. Therefore, it's not a problem
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: for me. But I don't like being fat. So when
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: I went to the doctor and I talked to her
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: about it, besides shocking the shit out of her by
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: not crying about it and being like, this never happened
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to me before, blah, blah, blah. I said... I don't
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: want a miracle drug. I want your advice on, you know,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: knowing the facts about my medical history. I can't figure out,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: there are a few different diets and a few different
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: exercise styles that look good. What's your advice? And so
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: she didn't have to gear me up to do that
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: part of the work. And it was probably the easiest,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I'm too fat, what do I do about it, doctor
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: visit she had to deal with ever. And that was that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: But most women instead are going to talk about how
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: unattractive they feel, how it hurts their feelings when other
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: people treat them like they're unattractive because they're fat, and
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: how mean people are and what's wrong with them for
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: treating her bad because she's fat. Well, people do those things.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: It's pretty well known. that it is more attractive to
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: look healthy than it is to look unhealthy and so on.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: So again, like if someone were to look at me
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: and say, God, I wouldn't touch you with a 10
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: foot pulley, you're a fat old lady. I'd be like, okay,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: that's fair. You know, I would hope not anyway, cause
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I'm a married fat old lady. Um, but in any case,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of women would have to speak, um,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: at length about how they felt about the situation but
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: that doesn't fix the situation and so it it works
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: as a great uh time waster right um it's like
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: calibrating your sock drawer you have accomplished nothing when you
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: get done but you've spent a lot of time on
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: it and it looks like you worked really hard And
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: somebody somewhere will be proud of you for it. But
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you didn't really have to put in a lot of effort.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: You could just sit there and think about other things
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: while you were doing it. As opposed to not eating
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: throughout the day, except for a short period of time,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like fasting. Or cutting your calories when your body is
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: accustomed to receiving about twice as many as you need.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Or cutting sugar, which is as addictive as heroin. Or
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: going to the gym. and exercising to lose weight when
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: you have joint pain because of the weight. And you're
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: going to have to work through the joint pain because
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: you know your joints are screaming because you're heavy. And
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: if you don't fix that, they're just going to keep hurting.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Those things take work. So, no, women do not need
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: talk therapy. They want talk therapy. Because talk therapy... they
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: don't feel like they're doing the work. And unless they
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: get a really astute, good therapist that makes them go
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: back and poke at the real sore spots, which is
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: admitting I got lazy about my diet, admitting I got
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: lazy about exercise, admitting this is my fault, but I
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: have a pathway to fix it. It's going to take
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: hard work. and only I can do it, and then
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: taking the steps to fix it, that's different. But just
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: talk therapy? No, women do not need that. It is poison.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: And it's also probably one of the biggest industries in
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: the country right now because at least a third of
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: women own up to being mentally ill on some level
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: or another. And I think it's something like 23% of
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: women are actually in treatment for it so that's fun
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: to talk about but on the communication end of it
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: when you get used to only communicating by talking and
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: you know maybe facial expressions and stuff but you also
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: get used to just completely ignoring the experiences and expressions
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: of men You end up in a situation where if
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: a man cannot tell you what's going on with him,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: and you don't care about his body language, there's no
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: pathway for it to be communicated from him to you.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I need X. X is happening to me. X is
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: not happening to me. Can we fix problem Y? And
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: things like that. So this young man couldn't... explain the
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: symptoms he was having couldn't get the testing he needed
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: and couldn't get the help he needed because health care
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: is dominated by women and more likely than not in
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: the room where he was having this problem most of
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the people that the had that communication wall where his
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: communication couldn't get through because it was all non-verbal in
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: the moment and they weren't willing to receive nonverbal communication
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: in the moment and, and try to understand what was
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: going on instead of dismiss it, being dismissive. Um, and he,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: he lost his life as a result and the system
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't even punish that or try to remedy it. And it's,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: it's frequent with men. Um, So here it says, after
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: hours of evidence and testimony, the coroner is unable to
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: determine Lewis's medical cause of death, and it is recorded
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: as unascertained. The coroner did not find that any neglect
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: by health care professionals contributed to Lewis's death. Which, from
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: the story, it's pretty obvious that yes, it did. It's
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: just that the coroner's not going to see that. Outside
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: the court, Jackie and Ian are in shock. Despite the
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: coroner's findings, they have always believed that more could have
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: been done to save Lewis's life. They are saying they've
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: done everything they could have done for Lewis. We don't
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: believe that's true, Ian tells us. He had a disability.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: He had Down syndrome. He was a frightened kid, he says.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: They could have done something and they refused to. Jackie
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: looks shell-shocked. None of it makes any sense, she says.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to be able to process this ever.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just completely devastated and shocked. There is no doubt
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: in Jackie and Ian's minds that Louis died simply because
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: he had Down syndrome. If he had been a 17-year-old
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: boy who articulated that he did not feel well, he
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: would not have been sent home from the hospital. Louis
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: was allowed to die due to his disability. Um, I
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: don't know if I've talked a lot recently about it,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: but when it happened, that was a contributing factor in
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: my dad's death. Um, In 2012, he had a heart attack.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: He needed a quintuple bypass. They were only able to
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: do a quadruple bypass because one of his blood vessels
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: was so badly damaged that they couldn't do anything. And
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: so he ended up... His heart was at 25% function
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: after that. And when... your heart is functioning at such
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: a low rate. Your oxygen doesn't get distributed very well
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: in your body. And so your legs are getting enough
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: oxygen to stay alive, but not enough to power your muscles.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: You need that oxygen in order to power your muscles
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: well enough to lift your body weight. And it meant
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: he had to walk with a walker. And it meant
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: that he had to use his arm strength to get
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: from a sitting position into into half standing position before
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: his leg strength would kick in. And it was like that,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: you know, before he injured his feet. But he had
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: to have physical therapy after he injured his feet. And
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the physical therapists were these petite, skinny little, you know,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: 20 something ladies. And they wanted him to just use
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: his legs to stand up. And he explained the situation
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: to them. And it went in one ear and out
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the other. They did not accept what he said as information. Like, literally,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: they treated it like he had just spoken gibberish for
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: a while. And then they went on and talked to
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: him as if he hadn't communicated anything to them. Well,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: this is the way we're going to do this. This
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: is what you need to do. So we're going to
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: try again. Don't push with your arms. Just use your legs.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: And every time and every way he tried to explain,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: my leg muscles don't get enough oxygen. I have to
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: use both my arms and my legs. I need to
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: work the strength up in my arms. They just ignored
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: him and continued arguing, do this, and pushing and getting
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: more frustrated with him because his body wouldn't cooperate. And
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: they started writing it down in their notes for him
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: as a refusal. he is refusing to stand. He is
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: refusing to participate in the therapy. Well, he wasn't refusing anything.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: He was trying to get them to understand how to
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: make it possible for him to do the therapy. And
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: they eventually, when they decided to close his therapy case,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: his physical therapy case, That meant that he was done
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: recovering in the nursing home from the hospital and had
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: to come back to the house. Probably about two months
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: before he would have come home and before he should
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: have come home. And that, I believe, contributed. There were
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: other things. The nursing home used to be the hoity-toity
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: nursing home in the area. And when I was there,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: it was definitely not. I cleaned the floor in his room.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Like when the family members come in and start cleaning,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: you're not doing things right. And they were having him
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: put his feet on the floor barefoot after losing all
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: his skin on the bottom of his feet and starting
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: to grow it back without having that floor be cleaned.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: So they really weren't paying attention to what was necessary.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: But in the end, the combination of women in healthcare
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: not caring enough to want two-way communication back and forth
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: between themselves and the patient, where the patient's communication is
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: something they have to listen to and consider and respond to,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: rather than wait for it to be over and then
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: plow forward with what they were thinking of before the
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: patient started talking, I don't know that he would have
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: passed away. You know, like his, his whole situation would
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: be different if they had responded better. Um, and I
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: think it's similar with a lot of disabled people. Dad
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: was just elderly and, um, He had some episodes of
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: hospital-induced dementia, but he wasn't normally suffering from any type
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: of dementia or anything. Normally, he was so articulate. He
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: actually taught history lessons to some of the more interested
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: STNAs that came in and had to be in the
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: room for a while, long enough that you would have
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: a normal conversation. And he'd be watching something, some sort
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: of historical documentary episode. And they'd say something about it,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: ask a question, say, oh, I didn't know that. And
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: then the rest of the conversation, they got a whole
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: lot of historical information. And he was very articulate. So
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: this was just, when they didn't listen and understand what
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: he was saying, it wasn't because he wasn't explaining himself.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: They just didn't care. When you combine that with somebody
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: who has difficulty explaining himself or can't explain himself, It's deadly. It's,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: it's instantly deadly. Not three weeks later, deadly or five
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: weeks later, deadly. Um, Richard beer brought up baby Alfie.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: NHS wouldn't release this baby had a condition that was, um,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: treatable with an experimental treatment in Italy was in the UK. Um,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: There was what Richard mentions, the Pope gave him Vatican citizenship,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: did not. And not even that could persuade NHS to
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: allow him to travel. They held him prisoner until he died.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Against the will of his parents, they held him prisoner
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: until he died. They denied them the right to try,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the right to take him to another country for an
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: attempt at fixing the problem that he had. And that's
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: managed medicine right there in a nutshell. And that's what
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid of with regard to this. So you have
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: this guy. He was allowed to die due to his disability.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Health Secretary Wes Streeting told ITV News, it is really
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: shocking the unequal outcomes we see for learning disabled people.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: Not just unequal access to care, but shockingly lower life expectancy,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: the health secretary said. That's why we have committed to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: publish every single year the data. I think we've read
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: this part, actually, because we talked about the Oliver McGowan
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: mandatory training. So when we talk about this, the thing
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: that I am the most deeply concerned about here is
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: you already, right now, without assisted suicide being on the table,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: You have a circumstance where if somebody has a disability
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: that makes it more difficult for them to communicate, makes
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: it more difficult for them to advocate for themselves, if
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: they're elderly, if their IQ is low, if they have
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: a speech impediment, if they have a phobia that makes
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: things difficult with regard to communication, anything like that, they're
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: already getting a lower standard of care And it is
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: already killing some of them. What happens when physicians or
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: nurses or physical therapists can, because they're fed up with
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: somebody that's difficult to take care of, who maybe doesn't
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: fully understand what they're doing, or maybe they don't fully
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: understand what the patient needs, and they are frustrated that
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: the patient doesn't seem to be cooperating with their expectations.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: What happens when those people can then suggest, well, maybe
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: you would just be better off committing suicide? Like, to me,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: that's a terrifying prospect. To me, that's hundreds of dead people,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: maybe thousands of dead people, not because they were going
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: to suffer a painful death and it spares them that
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: if maybe they die a few months earlier. In a
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: more peaceful manner. But because somebody's just fed up with them.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Somebody's done dealing with them. And this isn't uncommon. Early deaths.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: People with learning disabilities. Shocking. BBC News. Then we have
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: terminally ill men. who relies on oxygen is told by DWP.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: What's DWP, guys? Anybody know DWP?
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Department of Work and Pensions.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: So it's like the Department of Health and Human Services
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: here in the U.S. It would be the Welfare Department.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: basically yeah okay.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: There's there's two um it's very difficult to explain to
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: an american audience um we have a lot of news
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: headlines against people who are on disability they're trying to
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: cut it by 25 billion so they put out headlines
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: saying that this person faked their disability, went forward on disability,
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: it's like 0.01% fraud, and it's very difficult to get
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: on disability in the UK as well.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: It sounds like it.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: But the press always say it's very easy, and it
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: gets the public in a frenzy. So attacks on disabled
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: people have been rising lately.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the public's been up in arms trying to
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: get laws passed made more strict with regard to who
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: can receive assistance and how much for how long and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: stuff right um not.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Really they just they just attempt to say but people
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: wind on me because they think they're even faking or
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: they get more than they more than they should get
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: that's even worse Because the British public don't really like
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: disabled people as much as they claim they do. So
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: they sort of take out their frustration and they go
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: on disabled people. I'm also on disabled people like myself,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: which is very... which you can't really tell that I'm
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: disabled because everything's internal.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: They'll harass and say that I'm faking it.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Or... Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: The term in the U.S. for situations like yours is
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: invisible disabilities. For instance, there are chronic pain disorders like
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: rheumatoid arthritis that can affect the joints in ways that
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: can cause somebody to be unable to walk a long distance,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: but they can walk from their car to the grocery
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: store as long as there's a cart there for them
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: to ride on once they get in there.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: They can be affected worse in cold weather because it
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: causes the pain to be worse when you get cold
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: and your body tenses up from being cold than when
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: you're warmer and you're more relaxed. So it's even more
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: difficult in the wintertime. So there are people I've known
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: who have had handicap placards that they only use when
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: it's very low temperature. But the rest of the year,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: they're okay. But people look at them and think that
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: they're cheating the system, and they got a handicap placard
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: for just using in the cold because they want to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: be spoiled, not because they physically can't move as well
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: in the cold. Right.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: My friend had one, and every time he would get
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: challenged in the parking lot, he pulled up his top,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: because he had six fibrosis. He had a feeding tube,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: so he had to throw the feeding tube into the
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: belly button.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would definitely shut people up. They don't know
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: what it is. I do have a disability, look. I'm
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: a cyborg.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Also, in the UK, a lot of comedians start to
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: bash disabled people now during their sets. Because it's a
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: popular thing to do. And on the news, like GB
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: News are starting to bash disabled people. Reform and Restore
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: are starting to bash disabled people. They moved on from
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: immigrants to bashing disabled people now.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: It's like engagement farming, but for bad comedians and journalists
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: and stuff.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: And politicians as well. That's why I don't vote. I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: know I should vote, but there's no point in me voting.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: It's hard to choose between a large group of people
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: that all hate you. Yeah, I know how you feel.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I used to think one party was great and the
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: other party was trash. And actually, both parties are trash
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: here in the U.S. Both of the major parties are trash,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: and the minor parties aren't really any better.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: Even Salgon and Donosi are passion disabled people now.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: See, that's not good. But I think there's also a
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: lot of people who really don't understand the situation. So
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, you have most people...
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: would rather have more financially out of life than they
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: would be able to get from disability. And so they
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: wouldn't settle for disability, even if they could get it.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: But there are a few people who will cheat the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: system if they can. And they'll even work harder to
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: do that than they would if they just got a job.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: But most people on disability aren't like that.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: Um the maximum on pit is 700 a month that's
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: the maximum you get so it's like 194 pound a week.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: And see i have no idea how to translate that
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: into dollars right now like i know if i looked
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: it up i would get the information but i do
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: know that it's it's uh even if it was double
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: you know if if one pound was worth two dollars
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: or more um it would still be lower than the
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: income level that most people I know need in order
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: to keep up their lifestyle. And here in the U.S.,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: like I said, again, the amount that you would get
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: from disability is less than the amount you would get
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: from work. So most of the time when people say that,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: now it doesn't mean that there are no people. Same
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: thing with welfare. The amount you would get from welfare
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: is much less than the amount that you would get
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: from work. Significantly less. And they make you work anyway,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: which is what this guy was told. Now, work appointments,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: what are those? Are those like you have to do
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: a certain number of hours?
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: You have to do a certain amount of job search.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: If they find you a placement, you have to go
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: on that placement or they will take your benefits away.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it's like unemployment here in the U.S.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And well, you know, the nice thing about applying
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: for unemployment, like even if you're not going to try
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: to get unemployment in the United States, if something happens
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: with your job, you should apply for it because employers
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: get a benefit for hiring you if you've applied for unemployment.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: And they're more likely to take you. They're more likely
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: to hire you.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: In the UK, they're planning to tackle youth unemployment by
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: bringing back slavery. So they're going to take lots of 10,000
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: people and place them in a job in the supermarket
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: for free. And then when their time's up, they just
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: replace them for another batch of people.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: So in other words, these young people that are unemployed,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: they're going to make them work, but they're not going
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: to pay them?
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: What happens if you don't go to work? Do you
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: get fired?
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: They take your benefits away.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, so they are, okay, I see how that is.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: So it's similar to, so the welfare to work program
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: in the US is sort of similar in that they're
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: not doing like a certain number of people and then
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: another certain number of people. But if you receive certain
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: types of welfare payments, welfare benefits, and I think food
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: stamps are included in that. If you're not already working,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: if you don't already have a job, then you do
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: have to do a certain number of hours a month
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: of what they refer to as volunteer work, but again,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: they will take away your benefits if you don't do it,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: so it's technically not volunteer. But it's not slavery either,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: because you are getting paid. You get benefits.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: But they don't usually, if you're on disability.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: My understanding is if you're on disability, they don't do
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: that because you're on disability because you can't work.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Basically. And you get taxed on it as well.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: You get taxed on it as well. But I will say,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: you know, they do put signs up and they have
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: to explain it verbally also because I've seen it and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: I've heard it in the Health and Human Services Department
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: offices when they explain about the welfare to work program
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: where you have to apply for jobs and you also
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: have to do the community service hours that the amount
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: that you're getting per hour for your community service per
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: is much lower than what you would get for working
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: a minimum wage job. But the work is just as hard.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting, there's a lot of churches involved. And
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: I noticed a lot of the people in the welfare
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: offices were not the church going type, or at least
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: not the Christian church going type. Um, a lot of
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: people had, uh, you know, keep your rosaries out of
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: my ovaries and, and, uh, a few other types of slogans, uh,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: on their chests when I was in there, um, ran
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: into several fellow pagans at the time. And, uh, who
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: probably wouldn't talk to me now because I'm on the
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: other side. There's no side there, but it doesn't matter.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: In any case, so this is a guy who was
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: ordered by the British Welfare Department. He's terminally ill. He's
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: on end-of-life care. So in the U.S., that would be
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: hospice care, probably. In Britain, I don't know if there's
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: more privately funded stuff, but I know hospice is there, right?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the NHS will pay for the hospice care.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: If you want to go private, you can.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can do either hospice or private or whatever.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: But generally speaking, when somebody is at that point, they
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: are disabled, even if they weren't disabled throughout the rest
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: of their illness. They are now disabled, right? They want
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: him to apply for a job and report to work
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: while he's dying. Oh, sorry.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: The people that assess you for PIP, they're not professionally
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: trained nurses or doctors. They're just random people they found
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: off the street.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm a layman, you know, when it comes to that. Like,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm a direct support professional for intellectually disabled adults.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: But I can tell... that if somebody is on their deathbed,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: they're not going to get up to go work a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: shift at Wendy's. Like, that's not going to happen.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: Wendy's is going to be Wendy's.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: They what?
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: We don't have a Wendy's in the UK.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: You don't have Wendy's in the UK?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, gosh.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: You poor things.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: And we don't have Chick-fil-A because of the LGBT people.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: I still haven't forgiven them for that. Jeez.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Wendy's is better.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: We've got a couple of Wendy's in East London and
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: a couple of Wendy's up north.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: But you've got McDonald's all over the place, right?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm from the city where the first McDonald's in
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: England was built back in 77. There we go.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, Mr. Noob just gave us $ 5 and said, in
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: microbiology class, I remember all the nursing students gathered around
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: before a lecture and copied each other's homework, like 20
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: of them. Oh my God, that's so bad. And see,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: I had trouble in anatomy and physiology because I went
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: in to take my final exam with a corneal ulcer
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: that was making it hard to see and giving me
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: a migraine due to the unevenness of my vision. But
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: they copied each other's homework and they got nursing degrees
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: and take care of people. Or rather, are expected to
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: take care of people.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: Should I be worried? Because I think they did the
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: same in England as well.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: You think what?
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: I think they did the same in England as well.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: They copied each other's papers. Like, when there are nurses
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: who want stuff like that.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: I'm still not understanding it. You might have to slow down.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: Um. When they're in nursing schools, I think they do
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: the same.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: They do the same? Yeah. Everybody should be worried. Oh
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: my gosh. So there are courses that are really hard
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: in medicine, of course. Anatomy and physiology is kind of
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: like learning a map of the whole world where you
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: start by learning all the different countries and the different
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: oceans and then you Get down to learning all the
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: different states and provinces and whatever else you call the divisions, districts, whatever,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: that are as big as a state. And then all
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: the different counties and similarly sized divisions. And then all
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the different cities and similarly sized divisions. And then the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: main streets of all of those cities.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: And then you get called a racist because you're not
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: allowed to differentiate between these. areas because only a racist
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: would do such a thing.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: And also you also have to know the difference between
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Versailles and Versailles one of them is not in France
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Lima and Lima yep Lima and Lima and Cairo and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Cairo I'm looking forward.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: To my visit to Ohio yes.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Did you know that in Ohio, you can drive from
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Sydney to Houston and still be on the same highway?
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: You can actually drive through London without taking a detour
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: out of Ohio.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: London.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: We should take you to London and have you run
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: around and talk.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: You've been through London. It was awful, wasn't it?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: I mean London, Ohio.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: I mean London, Britain.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know. But yeah. In any case, yeah. So
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: it's really detailed. You definitely have to be able to
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: handle doing your own goddamn homework if you want to
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: understand anatomy and physiology. memorize the names of all the
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: things that you're going to be talking about when you're
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: helping a patient or helping a doctor help a patient
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: you have to know these things and and you also
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: have to understand how they work like it can't just
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: be something where you kind of sort of got it
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: and you squeaked on by There's a lot of stuff
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: you have to, like even a person with my little
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: bit of education, I get a med class that takes
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: about four hours once a year where we go over
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: the material again and I get tested again to make
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: sure that I am using the correct procedure to make
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: sure that I am giving the correct patients the correct
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: medications and doing them correctly. So, you know, somebody's meds
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: need to be crushed and given to them in a
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: substance like pudding or jello or not jello, but applesauce or,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: you know, something along those lines that I haven't just
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: handed them the pills and had, you know, some people
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: you can give them a little cup with their pills
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: and they will take the pills. And some people you
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: have to make sure the pills get into the mouth
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: or they don't go down the throat. And some people,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: like I said, it has to be in a substance.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: You have to take the class. every year and have
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: a nurse watch you go through the process and, um,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: describe to the nurse each step, what you're going to
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: be doing. They want to know that you're washing your
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: hands first, right? That's, um, for a position that the
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: initial education for this position, when I trained, first trained
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: it to work with the company, um, state, state training,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: like the minimum, I think is two weeks and I
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: got three weeks. it's the state tested nurses aid gets
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: two weeks. Um, and, uh, just the continuing education. We
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: go over first aid every year too. And nurses get
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: 18 months for the most basic type of nursing or
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: four years. And some of them take five to become a, uh,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: to get a BA, a badass in nursing, as opposed to, um,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: What is it when you get the two-year degree? Damn it.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Is that the BS degree? The bullshit degree?
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: It's been a while.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: I started going down that path and then stopped going
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: down that path. But in any case, you should be
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: able to do your own goddamn homework. You should be
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: able to answer the questions yourself, write your essay yourself,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: all of that stuff, you should not need another student's
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: work to help you through the class. And if you are,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: one of the first courses, totally by accident, that I
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: ended up taking was called Issues and Trends in Nursing.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: It was an ethics class. There are several levels of
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: ethics classes that you have to take if you are
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: going to become a nurse. And that's just LPN, which
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: I was partway through that when they discontinued it for
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: a while. You couldn't be an LPN. If you already
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: were an LPN, you could stay, but the degree was
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: being discontinued. There was not going to be an LPN degree.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: And they brought it back a few years later after
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: It was too late for me to license practical nurse, LPN.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: It was too late for me to go back and
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: continue because I was dealing with the little bit of
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: debt that I had from it. I didn't really have
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: big amounts of college loans from that, just a little bit,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: but I also didn't have a job. So if that's
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: what this guy is having to deal with, making the
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: decisions regarding his health, And what he should be doing.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: It is no wonder that they are so stupid that
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: they told a man to get up off his deathbed
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: and go to work at whatever place they send him to.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: That's insane. This guy relies on oxygen. And he's told to...
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: He's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. COPD. And so he is.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Essentially suffocating.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: Slowly.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: It's because it gets worse over time.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have that long anyway. No.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Like, if they take his benefits away, he'll probably pass
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: before it kicks in. But it's still a horrible thing. Like,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: what the hell? Why would they do that? Pretty stupid.
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: They can't spend their costs.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: I think that was the last one, but the way
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that people are responding to this, like I'm looking at it,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: you know, thinking this is crazy, but to be honest,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: this kind of thing is happening in the U S
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: So when we talk about, you know, what needs to happen, right.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Cause it is fair to say that if someone is
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: in a situation where, um, maybe they've got something, I
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: think it's Lou Gehrig's disease, that you literally choke to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: death is how you die. That if they don't want
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: to face that, when they get close and they know
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: that it's inevitable and it's impending, that they should be
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: able to just quietly go to sleep instead. And some
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: cancers just get more and more painful until you die.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Some cancers... When cancer gets into the brain, it just
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: completely takes the person away anyway. But some cancers create
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: big tumors on your face and your body. It can
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: be torturous to die from cancer. And it is fair
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: to give people the option that when it gets to
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: the point where their suffering is so great that they
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: can't face it anymore... And they're not going to get better.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing we can do that they should be
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: able to select that. But we have to be able
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: to protect people in this situation where the real reason
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: is because, you know, somebody's frustrated with them and doesn't
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: want to try to communicate with them, that they will
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: not be caught up in this and pushed to die
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: or tricked into dying or just overrun. because somebody didn't
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: want to deal with them anymore. And that's probably my
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: biggest fear with this type of law, is that without
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: any barriers to abuses, sorry about the cartoon noises, that's
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: the ringtone on my phone, but without any barriers to abuses,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: I worry that there are healthcare professionals who would just
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: do exactly that. Push it on someone against their will
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: or con someone who is more credulous or gullible or
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: can't communicate. Run over their wishes and make it happen regardless.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: And that's before we get into the greed and horribly
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: unethical and clearly abusive atmosphere within the human organ trade
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: inside of the medical profession. I'm not even talking about
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: the back alley, somebody stole your kidneys and left you
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: in a bathtub full of ice kind of thing. I'm
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: talking about abortion clinics selling baby parts and hospitals selling
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: baby foreskins. And medical institutions jumping down people's throats about
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: becoming organ donors if they think they might possibly be dying.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: And all of the news stories that have come out
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: in the last year about institutions that have not kept
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: someone alive that they could have kept alive because they
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: could use their organs. So they didn't save that life.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: they harvested the organs instead, which is essentially murder. So, yeah,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: I think there definitely need to be stipulations in the
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: law that suicide cannot be recommended in place of any
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: therapy that could have been provided. And it's something that
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: the patient should always have an advocate that is not
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: associated at all with the medical facility when those conversations
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: are happening. And people with vulnerabilities like disabilities that affect
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: their capabilities in communication or their cognitive abilities or anything
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: that might make it difficult for them to have that
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: conversation and come away certain that they got their interests
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: respected they should have a special advocate whose sole job
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: is to make sure that they don't get killed and
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: you know that they're not being just flat out killed
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: by the system but instead getting all the information and
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: making a decision themselves based on informed consent And it
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be something the doctor should ever be able to
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: just suggest. Like they can in Canada. And any time
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: that somebody wants to have an inquiry about somebody's death,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: there should never be a pathway to tell them no. No,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: we're not going to investigate this. If an investigation is requested,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: it should always be done. And it should always involve
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: someone from outside the facility. Someone that doesn't just have
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: the facility's interests in mind. Because without any assisted suicide law,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: they're too quick to kill people now. And they're too
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: careless with people's lives now.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: So....
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: Does anybody have anything else to add to that?
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: The bill is going to be pushed through on September 11th.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: September 11th. There's going to be a protest outside Westminster.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: There will be a protest? Or there won't be a protest?
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: There will be. I think there will be a protest.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: I think so. Don't quote me on that.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I would expect there to be a protest. There should
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: be people protesting. Peacefully, of course, not setting things on
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: fire like some people when they protest. But there definitely
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: should be, like, objections should be loud and obvious in
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: the form of signs and statements. Anybody with a bullhorn.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: This is the kind of thing that should not just
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: go through without anybody making it known that they object.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: And all of the groups that are fighting for better
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: handling of this law definitely need to continue pushing to
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: update it with stipulations that prevent these kinds of abuses
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: from being transferred from neglect at the hospital to now
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: they're going to just kill people. Because even if they're
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: going to make it inevitable that the law will pass,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I don't object to a pathway for people to not have...
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: to suffer terrible deaths. I do object for a pathway
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: for medical personnel to get rid of somebody because they're
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: a difficult patient. And I do because I've worked inside
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: of medicine in two different environments where many of the
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: patients are difficult and many of the workers are untrained
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: and underpaid, sometimes by necessity. I do believe that that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: will happen if there is not some sort of fail-safe
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: in the law to prevent it. And even if there is,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: it will still happen. It'll just be that people will
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: have recourse Yeah, Richard Beer says, imagine if you have
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: considered being asked if you have considered maid because you
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: requested a stairlift for your home. Hell, they've had that
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: with pain medicine. Raging Rat says, the hospital close to
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: where I live convinced us to kill my grandpa and
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: to not be selfish. Two years later, it came out
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: they were harvesting organs. So I got talked into killing
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: my grandpa. My grandpa got talked into accepting a feeding
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: tube for my grandma. The hospital profited from that quite
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: a bit, and my grandma died. She did not want
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: a feeding tube. She had in her living will no
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: feeding tube, and they did it to her anyway. I know,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not quite the same thing But it's enraging.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: And of all the people, if I were to disclose
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: what my grandma's history was, the irony of it just
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: would be insane. And then, you know, I lost both
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: my parents during the COVID crisis, and both of them
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: were to circumstances where the hospital didn't do things they
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: were supposed to do and then there was nothing i
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: could do about it and the helplessness that that you
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: feel with that where you find out information later that
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: if you had known at the time could have saved
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: the person that you lost like it's getting told a
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: lie by a medical establishment and losing a person because
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: of it and then coming back later and understanding that
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: that was a lie and you didn't protect your family
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: member because you believed something that wasn't true. It's hard
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: to stop feeling guilty about that, even though it was
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: the other person that lied. My grandpa had to deal
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: with that at the end of his life. He survived
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: my grandmother for 10 years. And he was still, you know,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: he was never going to stop talking about that. I
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: would have been talking about that, you know, for the
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: rest of my life under his circumstances, too, because the
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: doctor bullied him into it. It was like, you know,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: you were called selfish. He was accused of starving her
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: to death. She was already dying. He wasn't starving her
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: to death. She was already dying. She had the same
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: vascular condition that I have. And when your veins go,
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: they go. When you start having strokes from it, you're
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: on the way out. A feeding tube isn't going to
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: fix that. There's no recovery that you're going to have
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: because somebody put a feeding tube in and gave you
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: a little bit more time to Receive some treatment or another.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: At this point. When you hit the point. Where you
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: start having strokes. From this. You're gone. You're on your
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: way out. You're leaving this world. And it's not something
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: that they can stop. It's terminal. And. So they just basically.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Talked him into doing. Going against her wishes for nothing.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Except so that the hospital could profit. You get talked
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: into killing a family member for nothing except so that
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: the hospital could profit. And then you have to carry it.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: And nothing anybody says. Everybody in our whole audience, all
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: three of us, all three of the founders, all of
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: the people that are on the panel right now, everybody
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: at Honey Badger Radio could all say to you, it's
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: not your fault. And you would still feel guilty. You'll
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: never let that go. It'll be something that you'll be
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: able to work through because you understand that you were
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: lied to and taken advantage of. But there's always going
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: to be that weight. It's never going to go away.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: I wish I could tell you differently. But I watched
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: my grandfather with that for 10 years. And it still
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: gets to me. I feel bad because I went out
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: for a sandwich once. And that predator bullied my grandpa
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: into signing a paper that he had been told no
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: on by the entire rest of the family individually, one
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: at a time, including me. And that was in 1996.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: No, 1995.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: No, it was 1996. That was in 1996. That's a
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: long time ago. Official Reverse Traditionalism channel gave us $ 25
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: and said, I hope you weren't yelling at me, Doc.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: I just think if one of the points of MGTOW
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: is that men can focus on personal work like Newton
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: and Tesla, if they want, instead of career grinding for
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: a woman, I think reversing is a diet MGTOW in
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: that way, too, where stay-at-home dads can get shit done,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: notably musicians and any work-from-home job. I think if we
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: replaced every stay-at-home mom with a stay-at-home dad, we might
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: actually solve the Ryman Zeta question. How many people believe
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: humans were able to come up with math and philosophy
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: when we no longer had to hunt for food?
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: It would be difficult to come to that conclusion.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the whole thing. There's more.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: The legal system that we have where.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: it's always the women who deserve access to the children.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: Regardless of what they will teach the children.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 4: Or how many of those children they will just strangle
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: to death.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: I don't... You have a good point, and I don't
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: know how to counteract it.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: Other than by normalizing the idea of men being parents.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: It sounds weird, doesn't it?
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: To finish his point before you launch into the long one.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: Go on, go on. Mike, can you hear me? All right.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: Like how many people believe humans were able to come
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: up with math and philosophy when we no longer had
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: to hunt for food. It was mostly men who came
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: up with that math and philosophy, often when they were
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: wealthy enough to not truly have to work. Okay, that
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: was it. That was the whole statement.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: That's the tweet.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: That's the rest of it.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can't add much to that. The idea
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: that it's not.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 4: Normal for men to raise children is a quite recent idea.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 4: It's hard to even pinpoint it. I mean, even dinosaurs...
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 4: some species of dinosaur sort of had this idea that, um,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 4: that maybe men should be better off raising the children
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 4: and women should be better off. I don't even know.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 4: What have I just described there? I've just described a
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 4: thing where, um, Reproduction can occur with or without women.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 4: Or with or without men. There are many species in
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: which reproduction happens without men. And there are many species
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 4: in which reproduction happens without women. What? How could that
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 4: possibly happen? No, you need both males and females for reproduction.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: Well, it depends on the species.
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: One of them just needs to drop some genetic material
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: into the situation. And the other just has to do
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 4: the same and then fuck off. And there's also the
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 4: possibility of having a species.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Where both genders Are equally involved.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: In.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: The offspring that they're creating.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: This. There's many avenues of many species. Where.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 4: There's all sorts of. Things that can happen. And it's
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: very easy to say. No, it's women who should be
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: raising the children, and it's men who should be wandering
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 4: the earth. Well, have we not done a great deal
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: of experiments? And not just when it comes to primates,
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 4: but when it comes to any given mammal or any
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 4: given reptile.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: That actually When men are.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 4: When the males of the species are involved, it actually
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: goes quite well. And then you have to wonder what's
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 4: being hidden from one.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: What's being hidden from women and what's being hidden from
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: men in terms of the genetic makeup and the... Development
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: of society. Because. You know that. Seems to be.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 4: Women seem to be in charge of. The genetics. And
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 4: men seem to be in charge of. The society. Pushing it.
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: One way. When it comes to the. Fundaments of it. But, yeah.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: You know, when you think about, in history, when you
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: think about how people in historical stories, you know, things,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: people discussing their moments in history, and they talk about
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: their upbringing, they're talking about what their father taught them.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: What did they learn from their father? The reason that
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: that would sound normal is because fathers were always involved.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: The feminist myth is based on a short time during
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: the 20th century after the Industrial Revolution when it became
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: normal for the father to spend the overwhelming majority of
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: his hours working in an industrial setting away from the family.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: but the rest of the family was not also there
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: working with him. During the early part of the Industrial Revolution,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: because it had been normal for families to work together
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: as farmers or as cobblers or as farriers or any
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: other profession, Even in the military, if a father was
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: in the military, his sons grew up and joined the military.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: You learned what your father knew. You learned what your
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: father did. Most people didn't go to school. There wasn't
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: a school system. People had tutors and then there were universities.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: But there weren't, you know, if you learn to read,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: you learn to read at home. You didn't go sit
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: your butt in a classroom with 30 other kids and
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: a teacher in the front that would rather be somewhere else.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: And so kids learn from their fathers. And it wasn't
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: until after the start of the Industrial Revolution that it
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: even became common for people who didn't have higher incomes
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: to to learn how to read, much less to learn
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: during childhood together how to read, and to learn well
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: how to read. Grade school didn't exist for the longest time.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: You worked in your family's bakery, or you worked in
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: the smithy, or you worked in the horse barns, You
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: worked with your parents. And you learned what your parents did,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: what they knew. If your parents raised pigs, you learned
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: how to raise pigs. So it's weird for people to
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: think that it's normal for fathers to not be involved
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: in the upbringing of their children. It's actually an alien
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: concept that has been integrated into the modern belief system. very,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: very much wrong. But I think that was our last
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Super Chow. Do not have any other... Nope, don't have
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: any Super Chats, don't have any... That was our last
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: Super Chow. Don't have any Rumble Rants. I think we're
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: going to call it because we're at the end of
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: what I really wanted to go over. I didn't want
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: to go into every single story and I'm not going
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: to play the video because I think we covered what
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to point out. And I think we
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: covered a good deal of ground around it as well.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: So with that, I will thank all my co-hosts for
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: going through this material with me. Thanks to everybody for
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: listening and considering what we've put out there for you
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: to think about. And thanks very much to Brian for
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: doing All of the background work to make HPR Talk happen.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: Good night, all.