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The Weird and Wild Casey Means Confirmation Hearing · Paging America

0:15
SPEAKER_02: Hello, everybody.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Paging America,
0:17
where we explore the power of profit and politics shaping
0:19
American health care and
0:20
SPEAKER_02: what you can do about it.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Miles Baker, along with Dr. Rob Davidson.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Rob, how are you doing today?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing okay, still on the other side of the world.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: And as a result, we're kind of recording at some later times for you.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: And I only say this because I feel close enough to you to say this.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: You're looking a little tired.
0:38
Is there anything going on in your life that might be
0:40
contributing to that?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: My new baby rolled over.
0:43
SPEAKER_02: And that means he has enough energy to roll over.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I feel like I do not at this point.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Just to roll over.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Because you're up right now.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: That's like a big move.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm tired today.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: We're here for everyone listening.
0:59
SPEAKER_02: We're still making it happen.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: We're shaking it off.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Because we got a ton of health care news to get through.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: We had a big, wild week.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Jesus.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I look at parents while I'm with their kids, and I miss those days.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: My baby's 19 years old now,
1:13
SPEAKER_00: has been rolling over for over 19 years,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: and still has more energy than me.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's the problem.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Like for the first however many years of their life,
1:20
SPEAKER_00: they're on the upswing and the energy curve.
1:22
And we are all,
1:23
I mean,
1:24
by the time we had kids,
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I know for you as well,
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like in your 30s.
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SPEAKER_00: It is no longer.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: Well,
1:29
SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
1:30
SPEAKER_00: we were in our even in our 30s,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: you are no longer getting,
1:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: getting more energetic as time goes on.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's rough stuff.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: So appreciate you being here for the team.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Don't count me out, Rob.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: I could find some more energy.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: You got it.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: OK.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: OK.
2:13
record-breakingly long State of the Union address,
2:17
but we'll cover the health care topics.
2:20
The Trump administration's treatment of pregnant and nursing
2:22
women and children in
2:25
SPEAKER_02: immigration detention centers.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Oz is in the Epstein files.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: We've got a whole long list, so we'll just jump right into it at the top.
2:34
I skipped watching the whole State of the Union and just
2:37
covered the highlights so
2:38
SPEAKER_02: I could have the stamina to watch the Casey Means
2:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:07
She answered most of the Senate's hardest questions with some
3:09
version of ask your doctor.
3:11
And at one point said blood sugar dysregulation impacts over 50
3:15
percent of American
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SPEAKER_02: adults,
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SPEAKER_02: which relates to her business of selling continuous glucose monitors.
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SPEAKER_02: She did say not everyone needs a glucose monitor,
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but it did kind of seem like she thought everyone needed a
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glucose monitor.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: The toughest question came from Senator Chris Murphy,
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SPEAKER_02: who pointed out her conflicts of interest,
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SPEAKER_02: something that she herself decries in health care via the Hill.
3:34
Murphy brought up Means' history as an alternative medicine
3:36
social media darling in
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SPEAKER_02: which she has promoted various products and services for payment,
3:40
noting she had previously failed to disclose her financial ties
3:43
to these companies.
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SPEAKER_02: Murphy noted,
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Federal Trade Commission rules require that people recommending
3:47
products online
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SPEAKER_02: disclose their financial ties to companies offering these products.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: Quote,
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There is a pending complaint regarding your failure to adhere
3:54
to those guidelines
3:56
SPEAKER_02: that basically make the contention,
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SPEAKER_02: and this committee has verified the data that underlines their complaint,
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Murphy said.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: You routinely violated this policy,
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SPEAKER_02: and that,
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SPEAKER_02: in fact,
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SPEAKER_02: in the majority of your posts for many of the products we recommended,
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SPEAKER_02: you do not transparently reveal your financial connection.
4:12
Although she said she believes vaccines save lives and are a
4:16
key part of any
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SPEAKER_02: infectious disease public health strategy,
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she refused to fully endorse the MMR vaccine under questioning
4:22
by help chair Bill
4:23
SPEAKER_02: Cassidy.
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Vaccine vaccine advocacy and anti-vax rhetoric have not been
4:28
part of my message,
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SPEAKER_02: she said,
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SPEAKER_02: and vaccines are not part of my core message.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: I am not here to complicate the issues on vaccines.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: So there's more here, but Rob, I want to take you to the top.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:41
Casey Means wants to be Surgeon General,
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which is frequently called America's Top Doctor.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Casey Means a doctor.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: She's a doctor.
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SPEAKER_00: So is Dr. Jill Biden.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: So is Dr. Seuss.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not Dr. Seuss.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: But like but to me,
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SPEAKER_00: the word physician and if and if you look it up,
5:01
SPEAKER_00: I looked up on multiple,
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SPEAKER_00: multiple sources,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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physician has the connotation that you are like practicing and
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specifically like a
5:09
SPEAKER_00: practicing physician to practice as a physician.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: You need a medical license.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: She does not have an active medical license.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I think I recall she went to medical school,
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went to three years maybe of a surgical residency and decided
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that wasn't for her.
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SPEAKER_00: I'll say it again.
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SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
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SPEAKER_00: I have some very close friends who went to medical school,
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SPEAKER_00: did residency,
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SPEAKER_00: never practiced medicine,
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but did a lot of great work in the public health space who have
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contributed greatly
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SPEAKER_00: to the health of folks in this country.
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SPEAKER_00: She hasn't taken that path,
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SPEAKER_00: but like to continue to call herself as a physician to have,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: particularly Cassidy,
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SPEAKER_00: right,
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SPEAKER_00: who was a practicing physician before he became a senator,
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SPEAKER_00: specifically say we need someone,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: with those credentials.
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SPEAKER_00: Like to me, that disqualifies her right out of the gate.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't get it.
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SPEAKER_00: Senator Kim, I think, really, really pressed her on this as well.
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SPEAKER_02: He really would dial in.
6:01
He used the can you prescribe medication to a person as like
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his way to highlight
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SPEAKER_02: that she is not a practicing physician.
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And some of her ask your doctor statements could even allude to
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that saying,
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SPEAKER_00: I don't really know because I don't practice medicine,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: and that would be one way to say it.
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SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, then you probably shouldn't have this job.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
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You probably should continue going on grifting people on the
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Internet and trying to
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SPEAKER_00: duck the FTC when you violate their rules.
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SPEAKER_00: So.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to me, that was troubling.
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SPEAKER_00: I don't know your thoughts,
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SPEAKER_00: like the whole vaccine piece of it,
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SPEAKER_00: like she just kept dodging every little aspect,
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SPEAKER_00: right,
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SPEAKER_00: compared to,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: what she's said in the past.
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I think she had some really negative comments about hepatitis B
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vaccine tweets or
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SPEAKER_00: posts about that in the past.
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SPEAKER_00: And sort of dodge that as well.
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SPEAKER_00: But that's not part of my messaging.
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SPEAKER_00: It's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
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SPEAKER_00: Like,
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SPEAKER_00: if you want to be the Surgeon General,
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one of the most effective means to prevent disease ever in the
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history of humanity
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SPEAKER_00: needs to be part of your message.
7:00
Well,
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so if you ask Chachipiti,
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what is the generally...
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Is that what I heard there?
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SPEAKER_00: I heard the clicking going on.
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SPEAKER_00: Real time, real time.
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I know I'd read this before,
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but I wanted to get it right because the answer was pretty
7:12
perfect.
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SPEAKER_02: What does the Surgeon General do?
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Their main responsibility is educating the public about health
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issues such as
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SPEAKER_02: smoking,
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SPEAKER_02: mental health vaccines,
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SPEAKER_02: substance use,
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SPEAKER_02: and disease prevention.
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SPEAKER_02: So I mean,
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SPEAKER_02: so our whole thing was like focusing on disease prevention,
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SPEAKER_02: whether the claims about underlying underlying health,
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like structural health issues or underlying contributions to
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chronic disease were
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SPEAKER_02: dubious or not.
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SPEAKER_02: But education about vaccines is is a main function of the thing.
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SPEAKER_02: They also lead about 6000 other physicians and scientists.
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SPEAKER_02: So it's like not it's not actually like small department.
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SPEAKER_02: There's a there's a small army of highly trained individuals that,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
7:49
SPEAKER_02: at your disposal and under your direction as the Surgeon General.
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SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty big gig.
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SPEAKER_02: It's why it's Senate confirmed.
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SPEAKER_00: So real quick, the blood sugar piece.
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Like I was just thinking if I can offer a bit of advice and as
8:02
you were saying it,
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SPEAKER_00: it made me think of this blood sugar dysregulation.
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SPEAKER_00: It made me think about when you get hangry.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that what she's talking about?
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SPEAKER_00: Like you can tell it's been a while.
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She might help herself out by just saying that,
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like,
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you know,
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when you get hangry.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
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SPEAKER_00: And then like, oh, OK.
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SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_02: This is the thing.
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This is when this is for when someone who doesn't know who
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knows about social
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SPEAKER_02: science,
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SPEAKER_02: but not like science,
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SPEAKER_02: science or anatomy.
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When she says 50 percent of the country is suffering from blood
8:32
sugar dysregulation.
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SPEAKER_02: That is not a real thing, right?
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Not a real thing.
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I peg it as not a real thing because I'm just skeptical and I
8:42
think most things
8:43
SPEAKER_02: aren't real things.
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SPEAKER_02: That's not real.
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SPEAKER_00: That's bullshit made up.
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SPEAKER_02: But I don't know that for sure.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't know why that's not real.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: That's not real.
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SPEAKER_02: Why is that not real?
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SPEAKER_02: Is it just a made-up?
8:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a made-up term, right?
8:58
SPEAKER_00: When you eat things, your blood sugar goes up.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: When you don't eat things, it goes down.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: If you have diabetes,
9:03
you have some kind of either dysregulation of secreting insulin
9:07
for typical type 1
9:08
SPEAKER_00: diabetics.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Your pancreas doesn't make it.
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SPEAKER_00: Or you can't use insulin to help you store the sugar.
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SPEAKER_00: You typically type 2 diabetes, adult onset.
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That is dysregulation of your blood sugar because of how your
9:20
insulin either is
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SPEAKER_00: secretive or it works in your body.
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SPEAKER_00: I don't know what she means by that.
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I suspect that she's hoping that enough of these senators and
9:30
people listening
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SPEAKER_00: don't know either,
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SPEAKER_00: and they just hear that big term and say,
9:34
SPEAKER_00: oh,
9:34
SPEAKER_00: wow,
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SPEAKER_00: that's something.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: That's something.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: We should maybe buy her thing, right?
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Senator Tommy Tuberville,
9:39
SPEAKER_02: in the confirmation hearing,
9:43
SPEAKER_02: he was like,
9:44
SPEAKER_02: I really enjoyed our conversations.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, I listened to some of those podcasts, and I learned a lot.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: Not to begrudge podcasts, of course.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: No.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Great source of learning.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: You can learn a lot out of them.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: But,
9:58
SPEAKER_00: like,
9:58
SPEAKER_00: honestly,
9:58
SPEAKER_00: if you're a fucking senator in charge of confirming someone,
10:01
SPEAKER_00: let's not have,
10:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
10:02
SPEAKER_00: maybe there's a few senators listening.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
10:05
Please,
10:05
like,
10:05
fact check your sources when you're listening to podcasts for
10:08
your information.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: So on the really troubling part is her ducking the MMR question.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: There was a pretty – so it was interesting.
10:19
It was like when Bill Cassidy was questioning her,
10:23
he had like a question from the right.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: about abortion and reproductive rights.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: And then he had like a question from science.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to say the left.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to say from science on the MMR.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: And it seemed like he was trying to like kind of – I don't know.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: It seemed like he was kind of going at her.
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I don't know if maybe he was just shadowboxing and he'll just,
10:45
you know,
10:45
rubber stamp her.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: And that's probably likely from Senator Cassidy.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: But he was asking some questions.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: But she really –
10:52
SPEAKER_02: was squirming under the question of would you advise
10:58
SPEAKER_02: mothers to give their children the MMR vaccine.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: She couldn't do it.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, that's a real problem, right?
11:05
SPEAKER_00: Because we can't just rely on people asking their doctors, right?
11:11
SPEAKER_00: One,
11:11
SPEAKER_00: these guys have,
11:12
SPEAKER_00: as a party,
11:13
they've cut a trillion dollars from Medicaid so fewer people
11:16
can get into their
11:16
SPEAKER_00: doctors to have those conversations,
11:18
SPEAKER_00: right?
11:18
SPEAKER_00: They're making it harder to get vaccines, you know?
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Typically, you can just go to the pharmacy and get your vaccine.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, all of that is harder, right?
11:26
SPEAKER_00: The access piece.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: And so as the person who wants to be America's top doc,
11:32
SPEAKER_00: right,
11:33
SPEAKER_00: you should be able to very clearly and unequivocally say,
11:36
SPEAKER_00: yes,
11:36
SPEAKER_00: of course I would advise that.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Go do that.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:41
The whole consent thing,
11:42
and it's just like it's all kind of wriggling out of it.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: And the way I read it was that there were one of two things happening.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: One, she thinks –
11:56
Vaccines work and she is navigating the coalition politics of
12:01
Maha and being in the
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Kennedy orbit.
12:05
Or two,
12:06
she doesn't think she's an anti-vax activist or
12:10
anti-vaccination activist.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: And she is not.
12:14
And because that is becoming that is unpopular and becoming
12:17
increasingly less
12:18
SPEAKER_02: popular,
12:19
SPEAKER_02: despite the growth of Maha,
12:20
the vaccine positions of the Trump administration and Kennedy's
12:24
HHS are extremely
12:25
SPEAKER_02: unpopular in the general public.
12:26
that she is trying to not take one,
12:29
like,
12:29
you know,
12:30
take incoming on that.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Either one should be disqualified for surgery.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: Either choice.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: But it's only one of those two options.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: So I guess we'll see.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you said it right there.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Cassidy going hard.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: You know,
12:43
SPEAKER_00: the thing we've seen in the past is Cassidy makes big,
12:46
SPEAKER_00: bold statements and then then he folds.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: He did that with RFK Jr.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:51
I don't know the the the feelings about this nominee relative
12:54
to the feelings about RFK Jr.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: as a nominee and how
12:57
SPEAKER_00: how much that would please or displease Trump if she gets through.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: I think that is the calculation someone like Cassidy probably makes,
13:04
which is weird because he's already facing someone who's been
13:07
endorsed by Trump and
13:09
SPEAKER_00: others in Trump's orbit.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, man.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel bad.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel bad for Senator Dr. Cassidy.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes you almost watch what he's doing and it's so cringy.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: It's so terrible.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: It's just because you have shame.
13:27
It's only because you have shame that you feel a type of way
13:31
when he's talking like that.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: If you don't have any shame, you wouldn't feel like that.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: And so that proxy shame that you're feeling.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Proxy shame.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: So,
13:43
SPEAKER_02: Rob,
13:43
SPEAKER_02: so one other fun,
13:45
SPEAKER_02: like sort of like kind of a peek inside the the the ugly core of Maha.
13:50
So when Senator Ed Markey asked her about the harmful impact of
13:53
pesticides on
13:54
SPEAKER_02: people's health,
13:55
SPEAKER_02: something she's frequently written about.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: She's there.
13:59
Means significantly dialed back her normal rhetoric around
14:03
around pesticides and chemicals.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: This isn't surprising,
14:07
SPEAKER_02: given that her ally and promoter,
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Bobby Kennedy,
14:09
SPEAKER_02: came out in support of Trump's roundup.
14:11
executive order which caused this fissure where like the maha
14:14
moms were like sort
14:16
of shocked that donald trump is using the defense production
14:19
act i believe in order
14:21
to increase increase this chemical uh chemical production and
14:24
then so she she's
14:26
more or less like bobbing and weaving inside the maha
14:30
coalition's problem in this
14:32
senate hearing and is sort of interesting to watch that
14:34
everyone got the memo and
14:35
SPEAKER_02: needs to act a particular way
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have to be honest.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't know about glyphosate and Roundup.
14:45
The EPA and the European agency that regulates chemicals has
14:48
said they think it
14:49
SPEAKER_00: likely doesn't cause cancer,
14:51
SPEAKER_00: right?
14:51
The World Health Organization agencies that deal with chemicals
14:56
say it more likely
14:57
SPEAKER_00: than not does.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very gray, right?
15:00
But what is true is the core of the Mahan movement is
15:03
absolutely opposed to it.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And and so has she been and so has RFK Jr.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: been for a very long time.
15:12
And it's where we get into what you've said and we've said all
15:14
along this coalition
15:15
SPEAKER_00: management,
15:15
the political piece like this is not a health movement in the
15:19
minds of Trump or RFK
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Jr.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: or their or their leadership.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: It's not a health movement.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a political movement.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a power building movement.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
15:30
RFK may be your charismatic priest,
15:32
but Donald Trump is still your pope,
15:34
you know?
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:35
And the problem is that memo didn't get down to the Mahaminians
15:38
who are out there
15:39
SPEAKER_00: who really hate this shit.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: They haven't been read in on the project.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: The activists, yeah.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: It's a real problem for them.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Because they're true believers.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: Yep, it is a real problem.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: Other interesting things that happened in the Casey Means hearing,
15:52
SPEAKER_02: and probably maybe my favorite thing that happened,
15:56
Senator Susan Collins repeatedly asked her about her use of
15:59
magic mushrooms and
16:00
SPEAKER_02: psilocybin,
16:01
SPEAKER_02: which we've talked about on this show,
16:02
SPEAKER_02: how much Casey Means loves Schedule 1 narcotics in the form of mushrooms.
16:07
Yeah.
16:08
She said that she was concerned about that means urged readers
16:11
of her book to
16:12
consider psilocybin therapy and that she heard an internal
16:15
voice that inspired her
16:16
SPEAKER_02: to try psychedelic drugs.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: She did write that.
16:20
And illicit drug use remains a huge problem in this country,
16:23
Collins said.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: This is reporting from The Hill.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Collins,
16:26
SPEAKER_02: holding a copy of the nominee's 2024 book,
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Good Energy,
16:29
said she was concerned that means encouraged individuals to use
16:32
the psychedelic
16:33
SPEAKER_02: drug,
16:33
SPEAKER_02: which is also known as magic mushrooms.
16:35
The main Republican then asked Means whether she stood by what
16:38
she wrote and how
16:39
SPEAKER_02: she would speak to Americans regarding illicit drugs if confirmed.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: I believe that I would say as a private citizen,
16:44
SPEAKER_02: in many cases,
16:45
SPEAKER_02: different than what I would say as a public health official,
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Means said,
16:48
SPEAKER_02: which is,
16:49
SPEAKER_02: I guess.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: That's troubling.
16:52
I think that could probably be true and also a silly answer for
16:58
this question.
16:58
SPEAKER_02: And also, I don't know.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: What's your thoughts, Rob?
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't have super strong opinions,
17:06
SPEAKER_00: right,
17:07
SPEAKER_00: about magic,
17:08
SPEAKER_00: as Collins does,
17:09
like of all of the things that we should be concerned about
17:13
with Casey Means,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: like her writing a book and encourage like that is so far down the list.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: It's low on the priority list.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: And like that this embattled senator,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:22
who's deeply concerned about so many things is now deeply
17:24
concerned about magic
17:25
SPEAKER_00: mushrooms.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it seems a bit on brand for her, too.
17:31
I had a big—I had a couple takeaways from Senator Collins'
17:35
Magic Mushrooms digression.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Is, one, she looked incredibly elderly.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: And sort of—
17:43
running for re-election and in a state where she's not the
17:48
Susan Collins of yesteryear.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: No.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Two, is she really worried about magic mushrooms?
17:55
Like,
17:55
of all the drugs you could be worried about,
17:57
are you really worried about magic mushrooms?
18:00
I thought that was a particularly older lady thing to kind of
18:05
walk down that path.
18:06
It just seemed like she was maybe searching around for a
18:09
right-wing way to attack magic.
18:12
It's like an old Republican Party would be worried about magic
18:14
mushrooms.
18:15
Senator Susan Collins hasn't got the memo that the new right is
18:20
really into
18:20
SPEAKER_02: psychedelics across the board.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Like in all their podcasts and all their mediums.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: And then and then finally,
18:27
SPEAKER_02: you know,
18:29
this is like on the heels of a University of New Hampshire poll
18:32
that showed Graham
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Plattner kind of running away.
18:35
away with the thing ahead of Susan Collins and we're going to
18:37
want to see more data
18:39
before we get too fired up about that because a lot of polls
18:41
have shown Susan
18:42
Collins losing in previous years and when she's kind of eked it
18:45
out in the end but
18:47
SPEAKER_02: this was like this was like a
18:50
SPEAKER_02: like a runaway poll.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: And so we'll,
18:52
SPEAKER_02: we'll,
18:52
SPEAKER_02: we'll be watching that,
18:54
SPEAKER_02: but it made,
18:55
SPEAKER_02: it made sense to me that you would see like a younger energetic campaign,
19:00
like Graham Plattner's campaign in Maine being like a really
19:04
good foil for Susan
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Collins.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: After we saw her in this help committee hearing where she just looked,
19:11
SPEAKER_02: she,
19:11
SPEAKER_02: she looked elderly is the only way to describe it.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: That just kind of,
19:15
SPEAKER_02: kind of just maybe not particularly energetic as in,
19:18
SPEAKER_02: in her seat as a Senator.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: So.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And Mainers,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I lived in,
19:21
SPEAKER_00: I trained in Maine,
19:22
SPEAKER_00: did three years,
19:23
SPEAKER_00: lived there for three years.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: And my first child was born in Maine.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: And like,
19:27
SPEAKER_00: maybe not the same live free or die mentality as New Hampshire,
19:30
SPEAKER_00: but like a lot of Mainers have that kind of view of like,
19:34
so I can see a lot of Mainers who aren't particularly on one
19:37
side or the other,
19:38
SPEAKER_00: this issue saying,
19:39
SPEAKER_00: what the fuck do you give up?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: a shit about people using mushrooms.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, man.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Leave me alone.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Protect my health care.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: A lot of them would be safe.
19:46
Protect my right to choice and bring down costs on home heating
19:51
fuel,
19:51
things like that.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: But who the fuck cares about mushrooms?
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Is her heart just not in it in this re-election?
19:56
Is she sitting there saying,
19:57
I've got to talk about something for five minutes.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about this.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Let's try to... Yes.
20:04
Maybe someone said you'll get clicks on the internet if you
20:06
talk about magic mushrooms.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: She just talked about...
20:09
SPEAKER_02: She just took the wrong direction on it.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: All right.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's move on.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm sure we'll hear more from you'll hear more from us.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: We're going to be following the Casey Means confirmation.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: So next step in this process, they did not vote.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: That's just the hearing.
20:23
They would go back and vote out of committee and then that
20:25
would go to the full
20:26
SPEAKER_02: Senate for Senate confirmation.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't think she's in trouble, Rob, but I don't know.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: It was a weird hearing.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: She's a weird lady.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:36
So you could see you could see a couple of Republican senators
20:39
now that some of
20:40
them are feeling themselves and having a little freedom from
20:42
Trump that maybe maybe
20:44
SPEAKER_02: we get a maybe we get a weird outcome here.
20:45
And maybe Tommy Tuberville is listening to this podcast and he
20:48
learned something.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Senator Tuberville, if you're listening.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we think you should vote.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: All right.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Great.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: OK, moving on.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Trump's two-hour State of the Union address, we are not.
21:01
You can find a lot of coverage elsewhere on Trump's two-hour
21:05
State of the Union address.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: But just a little bit on the health care component.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: We'll just dial into that for a second.
21:12
During the speech,
21:13
he said,
21:13
that's why I introduced the great health care plan.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: I want to stop all payments to big insurance companies instead.
21:19
Give that money directly to the people so they can buy their
21:22
own health care.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: which will be better health care at a much lower cost.
21:28
Sometimes it's hard to read quotes from Trump because the
21:30
Senate doesn't make any sense.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: You're just like, did he skip that?
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Did he skip a noun?
21:37
You know,
21:38
I think there needs to be a big discussion out there in the
21:40
world.
21:41
Do we quote Trump directly or do we say what we think he was
21:44
trying to say?
21:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's tough.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe I don't read good.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: Here's what NPR's fact checkers had to say about this.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: So Trump is favoring a public option?
22:24
SPEAKER_00: No, he is definitely not doing that.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: He's definitely not doing that.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no health care plan, right?
22:29
SPEAKER_00: It's a one pager.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a one pager.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: And a website with him kind of sitting in the Oval Office,
22:36
SPEAKER_00: kind of staring into the camera like that.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: It is.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: That's what it is, right?
22:39
SPEAKER_00: It's a political piece.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with real health care.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: That's all I have to say about it.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing there.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: There's nothing there.
22:47
He is continuing to say that he wants to campaign on health
22:51
care,
22:51
which is hilarious.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that that is really particularly viable.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: But he had said, so in the lead up to the...
23:06
SPEAKER_02: Trump wants to focus on health care in the midterms and is what he said.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: And then he got other Republicans very worried,
23:13
despite health care being an issue where Democrats have a
23:15
distinct advantage over
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Republicans,
23:17
especially after the expiration of the Obamacare subsidies and
23:20
subsequent surge in
23:21
SPEAKER_02: health care costs for insurance for many millions of Americans.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: Trump wants to lean into the issue going into this year's midterms.
23:27
So Politico reported President Trump is preparing to make
23:29
health care a central
23:30
focus of his midterm sales pitch despite weak polling and
23:33
misgivings among some of
23:35
his own advisers about elevating an issue that long proved
23:37
disastrous for the
23:38
SPEAKER_02: Republican Party.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, when health care is the issue of the election, the Democrats...
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Romp generally as a general matter.
23:45
So recent polling by Navigator showed that 41 percent of
23:48
Americans think health
23:49
care should be a top priority of the administration and only 11
23:52
percent think it
23:53
SPEAKER_02: actually is.
23:54
So I'm not sure if this is like Donald Trump thinking he's
23:57
doing like judo and he's
24:00
SPEAKER_02: like taking his disadvantage and turning it into his advantage.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: But I struggle to see how that would work.
24:09
do you see a path for him making health care a positive instead
24:13
of a negative rep
24:14
no i mean specifically they cut a trillion dollars from
24:16
medicaid you know risking
24:18
rural hospitals uh kicking you know how many millions of people
24:22
off of health care
24:24
uh you know to fund tax cuts for billionaires right if they
24:27
want to talk about that
24:28
yeah yeah that's that's solid footing for advocates solid
24:32
footing for for democrats
24:33
running against republicans in these tough districts in these
24:36
tough states
24:37
SPEAKER_00: And so,
24:37
SPEAKER_00: like,
24:37
I think most Dems and maybe we should all the advocates and the
24:41
candidates should
24:42
SPEAKER_00: be a little quiet about it.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, just be just like, yeah, let it happen, man.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's go.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, don't don't don't kind of preen about it too much yet.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, so if he wants to do that, right.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Letting these ACA tax tax credits expire,
24:56
like anything that has touched health care that this
24:59
administration has been a part
25:00
SPEAKER_00: of has been a net negative for folks and people feel it.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: And so.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we say polling says this, that's true.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: But just as a physician working on the ground,
25:09
SPEAKER_00: like actual people are just feeling it in their everyday life.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: So,
25:13
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a political mistake for him,
25:16
SPEAKER_00: but we don't want to give him too much advice.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
25:21
I'm going to do it anyway,
25:22
but I don't think him or Senator Tuberville listens to our
25:26
podcast.
25:28
So his poster,
25:29
we talked about Eva Polster,
25:30
Tony Fabrizio on this podcast before.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: His poster has said, avoid these issues.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, do not go, do not touch these things.
25:37
Do not touch anything that has to do with like healthcare and
25:40
insurance and
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Medicare and Medicaid.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Do not.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Touch vaccines.
25:45
And you can see the you can see everyone stepping away from the
25:48
cliff on vaccines
25:49
SPEAKER_02: in the Maha movement.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: That's still their objective.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: They're still anti-vax extremist psychopaths.
25:54
But you can see them rhetorically stepping back from the
25:57
anti-vaccine rhetoric from
25:59
SPEAKER_02: means of hearing to Kennedy sort of across the board.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: They're all kind of inching away from it and leaning into the
26:08
SPEAKER_02: And underlying causes of disease.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: And then Fabrizio's point is to lean into the cost of prescription drug,
26:15
SPEAKER_02: the cost of prescription drugs,
26:16
SPEAKER_02: because that is such a winner.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't feel like enough in the midterms.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: If everyone's pissed about health care.
26:22
So,
26:23
yeah,
26:23
I mean,
26:24
if Donald Trump wants to make the election about health care.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: Great.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: And what he's done on prescription drugs,
26:30
like most of most of the action that's happened on prescription
26:33
drugs around
26:34
Medicare drug price negotiations were from legislation passed
26:37
by Democrats and
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Biden.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And the previous administration.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And then,
26:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
26:41
SPEAKER_00: anything else that he's tried to do,
26:42
SPEAKER_00: the most favored nation,
26:43
SPEAKER_00: all that has largely been seen.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: But people don't understand it.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: But when you dig right into it,
26:48
it's it's most of it is like creating deals that we don't know
26:52
much about with drug
26:54
SPEAKER_00: companies that we don't trust and shouldn't trust.
26:57
And then TrumpRx routing people to the websites and then also
27:01
providing maybe coupons.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: They can't explain it because it's so unclear.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: It's convoluted.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: So to explain it sounds convoluted.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it makes you sound disingenuous because you are, right?
27:15
SPEAKER_00: You are.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I don't think that – I don't know.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a winner.
27:21
I think this is a path that they probably shouldn't take,
27:24
but we certainly hope they do.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: To wrap up his last quote on health care in the speech,
27:31
SPEAKER_02: he said,
27:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm bringing costs way down on health care and everything else.
27:35
I'm also ending the wildly inflated cost of prescription drugs
27:38
like has never happened before.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: He dropped another word.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: A thousand percent.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Like has never happened before.
27:43
He failed to mention that health insurance premiums are sorry
27:45
and under his administration.
27:47
So he's just,
27:48
you know,
27:48
it was a speech that was remarkably filled with lies.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: That's not a novel take.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: Other people have remarked on that.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: But
27:54
SPEAKER_02: It had fake things and nonsense riddled throughout it.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Why don't we move on, Rob?
28:04
SPEAKER_02: We have other topics.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: So Peter Atiyah isn't the only doctor.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: Peter Atiyah, who recently left CBS.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: He had to leave CBS because he's in the Epstein Files.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: He is not the only doctor in the Epstein Files.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Oz is in the Epstein files.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Who would have thought?
28:21
SPEAKER_02: This week we learned that Peter Atiyah,
28:23
a longevity influencer and healthcare celebrity with ties to
28:26
Jeffrey Epstein,
28:26
SPEAKER_02: is stepping down from his new position at CBS,
28:29
SPEAKER_02: news contributor.
28:31
However,
28:31
Atiyah isn't the only doctor in the Epstein files,
28:33
so is CMS administrator Dr.
28:35
Oz.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Oz, President Donald Trump's administrator of the U.S.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services,
28:41
emailed an invitation to a Valentine's Day party in 2016 to
28:45
then convicted sex
28:46
SPEAKER_02: offender Jeffrey Epstein,
28:48
SPEAKER_02: U.S.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: Justice Department document show.
28:50
Oz sent the invite almost a decade after Epstein's first sex
28:54
crime charges became
28:55
SPEAKER_02: public in July 2016.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: 2006,
28:57
SPEAKER_02: the email dated February 1,
28:59
SPEAKER_02: 2016,
28:59
SPEAKER_02: and addressed from Oz and his wife to Epstein,
29:03
SPEAKER_02: has a subject line reading,
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Mehmet and Lisa Oz's Valentine's Day celebration.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: And it contained a link to the digital invite.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: Oz appears several more times in the files,
29:14
including an email sent from an account under his name to
29:16
Epstein on January 1,
29:17
SPEAKER_02: 2016.
29:17
And as the subject line,
29:20
Dr.
29:20
Oz,
29:21
the body of the message is completely retracted.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Wait, what is it?
29:26
Dr.
29:26
Oz was the subject line and the sender,
29:29
and then it was completely redacted.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: How damning is that?
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:39
I think that's—I think getting invited to Jeffrey Epstein's
29:44
island means table
29:46
SPEAKER_02: stakes,
29:47
SPEAKER_02: you were up to something shady.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: I think inviting Jeffrey Epstein to your Valentine's Day party—
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Might be weirder.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Valentine's Day of all things.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:59
And I don't want to impugn people who adults who have
30:02
Valentine's party where they
30:03
SPEAKER_00: invite other adults.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: That just seems weird.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, whatever.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: But I had a Valentine's Day party this year, Rob.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: You did not invite Jeffrey Epstein.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: I didn't invite Jeffrey Epstein.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: You didn't invite Ghislaine Maxwell.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
30:17
SPEAKER_00: but,
30:18
SPEAKER_00: like,
30:19
just inviting this guy with everything and after he was already
30:22
convicted,
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:24
Is it too much to say Dr.
30:26
Oz should resign,
30:27
like,
30:27
based on this and other things?
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Dr. Oz should absolutely resign.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: He was—look, look, look, look.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: He was a sex offender already.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: And he was a total creep.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And everyone knew he was a total creep.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Just like Trump should resign.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Just like all these creeps should resign.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Dr. Oz.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Oz should resign.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: There's a bunch of reasons why Dr. Oz should resign.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: This is another one.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Conflicts of interest and all that.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: But like, boom, add it to the list.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Do you think they serve big plates of vegetables and crudités?
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Crudités.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Crudités at the Dr. Oz-Jeffrey Epstein Valentine's Day party?
30:58
SPEAKER_00: 100 percent.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Crudite is an entire table, an entire table of crudite.
31:02
This is only people who are really interested in Pennsylvania
31:05
politics are going to
31:06
SPEAKER_02: get that joke.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: But I promise it's going to kill among like six, seven, eight people.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Just type in crudite.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: You need an accent on the E to get it right.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Type in crudite, Dr. Oz, and, you know, you'll be there.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: All right.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: So a little bit more serious news.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Trump administration to withhold Medicaid funds from Minnesota.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: This is this is pretty new.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: This is pretty breaking news.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: So we might learn more as we're recording.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: But via CNBC, Vice President J.D.
31:31
Vance announced Wednesday that the Trump administration would
31:34
temporarily halt some
31:35
SPEAKER_02: Medicaid funding to the state.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: That's bullshit.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: Oz, who referred to people committing fraud as self-serving scoundrels.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: Scoundrels?
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: Wasn't he just in the Epstein files?
32:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:06
Self-serving scoundrels said the federal government would hold
32:09
off on paying $259.5
32:11
SPEAKER_02: million to Minnesota in funding for Medicaid.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: One last thing.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: So Dr. Oz said this is not a problem with the people of Minnesota.
32:19
It's a problem with the leadership of Minnesota and other
32:21
states who do not take
32:22
SPEAKER_02: Medicaid preservation seriously.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: I wonder what you think of this, Rob.
32:25
This is a pretty incredible intervention from the federal
32:29
government into the state
32:31
SPEAKER_02: of Minnesota yet again.
32:32
Well,
32:33
I mean,
32:34
there's been a lot of reporting on them just punishing blue
32:37
states,
32:37
right?
32:37
Punishing states and trying to punish cities with leaders who
32:40
they don't agree with
32:41
SPEAKER_00: or who have spoken out and opposed them.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: I think Tim Walz,
32:44
SPEAKER_00: I saw on X,
32:46
SPEAKER_00: responded basically saying,
32:47
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
32:47
the agents you sent in to Minnesota were the ones who were
32:50
killing people,
32:51
SPEAKER_00: right?
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And ripping people off the streets.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's what you've done.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: here in the state of Minnesota.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, this is gross.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
32:58
SPEAKER_00: I think earlier this week,
33:00
I believe Trump announced that Vance would be like heading up
33:03
the anti-fraud,
33:04
SPEAKER_00: whatever they call it,
33:05
SPEAKER_00: a task force or something like that.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, are you kidding me?
33:07
SPEAKER_00: The most corrupt,
33:09
SPEAKER_00: fraudulent administration from top to bottom,
33:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:12
SPEAKER_00: looking at Oz,
33:13
SPEAKER_00: looking at now Casey Means,
33:14
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:14
SPEAKER_00: wanting to get this top doc job.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And they're concerned about fraud.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: You know,
33:20
SPEAKER_00: I think I was thinking,
33:21
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:22
SPEAKER_00: like the call is coming from inside the House,
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Trump.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: You know,
33:24
you don't really need to look too far outside of your own four
33:27
walls of the White
33:27
SPEAKER_00: House to know where the fraud's coming from.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's sad.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: It's sad for those people who are going to miss out pregnant women,
33:35
SPEAKER_00: children,
33:36
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:36
SPEAKER_00: elderly folks because of,
33:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
33:39
SPEAKER_00: their fixation on the state of Minnesota.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: J.D.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Vance is...
33:46
SPEAKER_02: I've always thought of it this way.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Donald Trump is trying to get money to put in his own pocket.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: J.D.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Vance is a lot more ideological, at least the new version of J.D.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Vance.
33:57
He's so ideological that he's always talking about taking other
34:00
people's money.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily to put it in his own pocket.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: I don't have any reason to think that J.D.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Vance is putting money in his own pocket.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure he is in some way.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: But,
34:07
SPEAKER_02: like,
34:08
SPEAKER_02: you know,
34:08
SPEAKER_02: he doesn't seem as,
34:09
SPEAKER_02: like,
34:09
SPEAKER_02: profit-motivated as much as he is ideologically motivated.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: But he's long talked about criminalizing philanthropy,
34:17
SPEAKER_02: going after university endowments,
34:19
SPEAKER_02: some of which I agree with,
34:20
SPEAKER_02: but for very different reasons.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: But this feels like you—I mean, this is, like, straightaway going at—
34:28
federally committed funds to a blue state,
34:30
which seems like a real escalation.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the other things were more on more dubious legal ground,
34:36
but this also seems like it's on dubious legal ground and just
34:40
feels super,
34:42
like an aggressive escalation in terms of the federal
34:45
government's relationship to
34:46
SPEAKER_02: a state.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
34:47
SPEAKER_00: assuming Governor Walz and his team will be opposing this,
34:51
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:51
SPEAKER_00: and hopefully the folks in Minnesota are going to suffer too much.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: But fuck,
34:55
like that's they're just they're just trying to beat the shit
34:57
out of anyone in
34:59
SPEAKER_00: these blue states.
35:00
Just like it seems it seems like political retribution and
35:03
they're doing it in some
35:04
SPEAKER_00: of the most heinous ways.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: On another topic,
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Rob,
35:08
SPEAKER_02: moving on from Minnesota,
35:10
the Trump administration may send $2 billion annually to do
35:12
things that the World
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Health Organization already did for a lot less money.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: In January last year,
35:18
the Trump administration began the year-long process of pulling
35:20
out of the World
35:20
SPEAKER_02: Health Organization,
35:21
SPEAKER_02: and we officially left the organization last month.
35:24
Now the administration is considering spending $2 billion per
35:27
year to recreate some
35:27
SPEAKER_02: of the work done by the WHO for a fraction of the cost.
35:33
The WHO did it for a fraction of the cost than what we're
35:36
considering spending it on.
35:37
The Trump administration is proposing spending $2 billion a
35:39
year to replicate the
35:40
SPEAKER_02: global disease,
35:40
SPEAKER_02: surveillance,
35:41
and outbreak functions the United States want to help build and
35:44
access as a
35:44
SPEAKER_02: fraction of the cost.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: The effort to build a U.S.-run alternative would recreate systems such as
35:49
SPEAKER_02: laboratories,
35:49
SPEAKER_02: data sharing networks,
35:50
SPEAKER_02: and rapid response systems.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: The U.S.
35:52
abandoned when it announced its withdrawal from the WHO last
35:55
year and dismantled the U.S.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: Agency for International Development,
35:58
according to the officials who spoke on the condition of
36:00
anonymity to share
36:01
SPEAKER_02: internal deliberations.
36:02
While President Donald Trump accused the WHO of demanding
36:05
unfairly onerous
36:06
SPEAKER_02: payments,
36:06
the alternative his administration is considering carries a
36:09
price tag about three
36:10
SPEAKER_02: times what the U.S.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: contributed annually to the U.N.
36:12
SPEAKER_02: Health Agency.
36:15
And personally,
36:16
I do not trust folks in the Trump administration to do good
36:19
faith
36:21
world health in to do disease surveillance when we're having
36:27
when we're having
36:27
SPEAKER_02: goofy conversations about vaccines just down the street in Congress.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:32
Either this becomes another slush fund like the like the the
36:36
Board of Peace.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Either it's that or it's nothing.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
36:41
It's just talk in either one,
36:44
you know,
36:45
in the in the sort of the shadows of leaving the WHO.
36:50
I don't know,
36:50
pretty egregious violation of our sort of contribution to
36:54
humanity,
36:54
right?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess we'll see where this goes, but it seems sort of on brand.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: If they actually do something with it to just to stick your,
37:03
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:05
SPEAKER_00: a thumb in the,
37:06
SPEAKER_00: what's the term?
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Thumb in the eye,
37:07
SPEAKER_00: something of the WHO,
37:09
SPEAKER_00: just to kind of,
37:10
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:11
SPEAKER_00: say a few to the WHO,
37:12
SPEAKER_00: we're going to spend lots of money.
37:14
Yeah,
37:15
I think,
37:16
and it's going to be housed in HHS,
37:18
which obviously,
37:18
you know,
37:19
SPEAKER_02: Nothing weird going on there.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: So if it's housed at the HHS,
37:25
SPEAKER_02: it does seem like it could be ripe for misdirection or misuse of funds,
37:30
misappropriation of funds if they're spending three times the
37:34
amount to get the
37:34
SPEAKER_02: same outcome or something much less.
37:37
SPEAKER_02: So I...
37:43
SPEAKER_02: I want to get your take on this, Rob.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: This is news about FDA chief Marty McCary.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: I read this and I realized,
37:52
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:52
I don't really understand a lot about the prescription drug
37:56
system in the United
37:57
SPEAKER_02: States on why we need prescriptions.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: I know that when you go to other countries,
38:03
SPEAKER_02: there are a lot less drugs that you need a piece of paper for to access.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: I think some of that leads to significant abuse.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: But in the United States,
38:14
SPEAKER_02: I didn't really totally understand why you always need a prescription.
38:19
FDA chief Marty McCary thinks when it comes to drugs,
38:22
everything should be over the counter.
38:24
CNBC reported that McCary isn't a fan of making drugs available
38:28
only by prescription.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: The FDA commissioner, Marty McCary, told CNBC,
38:32
CNBC that he believes everything should be over the counter
38:34
unless a drug is
38:35
SPEAKER_02: unsafe,
38:36
SPEAKER_02: addictive,
38:36
SPEAKER_02: or requires monitoring,
38:37
doubling down on a push that some in the pharmaceutical
38:40
industry have questioned.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: In an interview Wednesday in Washington,
38:43
SPEAKER_02: D.C.,
38:44
McCary said FDA aims to make changes this year that allow more
38:47
companies to offer
38:48
SPEAKER_02: their prescription medicines over the counter.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Quote,
38:52
SPEAKER_02: in my opinion,
38:53
everything should be over the counter and not requiring a
38:55
prescription unless it's
38:56
SPEAKER_02: safe,
38:56
unless you need laboratory tests to monitor how it's being
38:58
received by your body or
39:00
SPEAKER_02: if you could be used for some nefarious purpose or it's addictive.
39:03
McCary told CNBC at the Pharma Forum,
39:06
a one-day event organized by the pharmaceutical industry.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Rob, why is this a good or bad idea?
39:15
SPEAKER_00: It's not that it's good or bad.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: It's the way he says it.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: When you start out that sentence, everything should be over the counter.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: And then you have your dot, dot, dot, unless it's da, da, da.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's almost like, and the afterthought is if it's these things.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of folks would agree with,
39:31
SPEAKER_00: like,
39:31
if you just switch that sentence and said drugs that require
39:34
monitoring or
39:35
potentially hazardous or potentially addictive should always
39:38
require prescription.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And then other things...
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Probably we can loosen that up.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:43
If you just switch that around and put the emphasis because
39:45
some of the problem is
39:46
SPEAKER_00: in a lot of countries,
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I think you can get a lot of antibiotics over the counter.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: And you don't need monitoring.
39:51
They're not like uniquely dangerous to the individual,
39:55
although some of them are.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Some of them are to certain individuals.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: And they aren't, you know, addictive or anything like that.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: But overall,
40:04
excessive use of antibiotics when they are unnecessary has a
40:08
massive societal cost,
40:10
SPEAKER_00: right?
40:11
SPEAKER_00: With the breeding.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, population health is huge, right?
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Breeding superbugs.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we...
40:17
Those of us who've worked in hospitals have all experienced
40:19
these superbugs that
40:20
SPEAKER_00: people end up getting with multiple drug resistance patterns and,
40:25
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:25
SPEAKER_00: people having to be hospitalized for,
40:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:28
SPEAKER_00: infections that,
40:29
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:30
SPEAKER_00: 10,
40:30
SPEAKER_00: 15 years ago,
40:31
they could have been treated outpatient because of the overuse
40:34
of antibiotics.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, many of us are guilty of that in and of itself.
40:39
But I can't imagine if some of these drugs were just sitting on
40:42
the shelf.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: You go pick it up anytime you had a sniffles or a cough or whatever that.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: uh, when you clearly don't need it.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: And I will say that,
40:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
40:48
SPEAKER_00: the house of medicine,
40:50
SPEAKER_00: we have gotten a lot better about this,
40:52
SPEAKER_00: right?
40:52
SPEAKER_00: A lot more data out there, a lot more of us.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Um,
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I,
40:56
SPEAKER_00: I look at treating ear infections early on in my career,
40:59
SPEAKER_00: way early back in the late nineties,
41:01
SPEAKER_00: like kept with the infection to get an antibiotic,
41:03
SPEAKER_00: you know,
41:03
SPEAKER_00: I,
41:04
SPEAKER_00: I would say,
41:06
SPEAKER_00: and that's even the wrong antibiotic.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would argue nowadays, nowadays, um,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know the exact numbers.
41:15
It's a very small percent of kids who get a prescription right
41:18
out of the gate for
41:19
SPEAKER_00: an ear infection.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: The vast majority of older kids,
41:21
SPEAKER_00: give them a couple of days,
41:22
SPEAKER_00: they get better because it's a virus.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: And then they didn't need that,
41:25
SPEAKER_00: whatever you're prescribing,
41:26
SPEAKER_00: amoxicillin,
41:27
SPEAKER_00: azithromycin,
41:27
SPEAKER_00: whatever.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: And so to go the other way on that, I think is a real problem.
41:32
And then,
41:33
like,
41:33
I'm trying to imagine what drugs are you talking about,
41:35
right?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean...
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Blood pressure meds?
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Well,
41:38
SPEAKER_00: no,
41:38
SPEAKER_00: vast majority of those you need monitoring of your kidney function,
41:41
SPEAKER_00: that kind of thing.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Thyroid meds.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: My wife's a family doc.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: She says all the time, people are like, oh, I'm so tired, I'm so tired.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things you do is you check their thyroid.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And people think, well, wouldn't that help me?
41:51
SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't it help me feel better?
41:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
41:52
SPEAKER_00: well,
41:52
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
41:52
SPEAKER_00: thyroid hormone would get you revved up,
41:54
SPEAKER_00: but if you don't need it,
41:55
SPEAKER_00: that could cause real problems.
41:58
Even things like medications for toenail fungus,
42:02
you have to check your liver function.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:05
So I would love some more detail about exactly what are the
42:09
drugs he's thinking
42:10
SPEAKER_00: about that are currently not available over the counter.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: Again,
42:14
this seems like an end around in their desire to kind of make
42:20
their cuts to
42:21
SPEAKER_00: Medicaid and the ACA seem less relevant,
42:24
SPEAKER_00: right?
42:24
Because as people are losing their health insurance,
42:26
they can't get into a doctor.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: So it does make it a lot harder.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: to get meds if you need them.
42:30
But maybe we should just actually be providing people with
42:33
health care and access
42:34
SPEAKER_00: to health care so they can do those things.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: Makes sense to me.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: That's where I'm at.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of my colleagues are.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: You know,
42:46
it's hard to tell when these guys are making policy on the fly
42:48
or they're just
42:49
SPEAKER_02: shooting the shit on the internet,
42:50
SPEAKER_02: you know?
42:51
Because sometimes shooting the shit on the internet comes into
42:56
public policy.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for Trump, it's a tweet.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
43:00
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, we'll see.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: We'll see where this goes.
43:04
If we get rid of the prescription regime in the United States,
43:06
you'll hear it here.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about it.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: I think this is the last thing I want to cover today, Rob.
43:15
It was like a seismic shift in Wisconsin politics with the
43:21
longtime Speaker of the
43:22
SPEAKER_02: House,
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Robin Voss,
43:24
SPEAKER_02: announcing his retirement.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: This is on the heels of redrawn maps.
43:29
SPEAKER_02: So this will be the second election.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: It'll be the first midterm election conducted on the ungerrymandered or
43:36
SPEAKER_02: significantly less gerrymandered Wisconsin maps,
43:39
SPEAKER_02: a much fairer set of maps at the state legislative district.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: And you see the sort of the first midterm election,
43:46
SPEAKER_02: the longtime speaker Robin Voss has announced his retirement.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: Now, Robin Voss has...
43:52
SPEAKER_02: stopped Medicaid expansion in Wisconsin.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: If you look at a map of Medicaid expansion across the country,
43:56
SPEAKER_02: like the whole American North has expanded Medicaid.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: The American West has expanded Medicaid.
44:01
A bunch of others,
44:02
a bunch of states that are Republican states have expanded
44:05
Medicaid.
44:05
It's just most mainly the deep South and Wisconsin did not
44:08
expand Medicaid.
44:10
And that is one guy,
44:12
that is Robin Voss,
44:13
who stopped the expansion of Medicaid.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: And he's leaving because...
44:19
The Republican Party is in trouble in the state of Wisconsin
44:22
because they no longer
44:23
have the gerrymander advantage in a 50-50 state in what looks
44:27
like it's going to be
44:28
SPEAKER_02: a good Democratic year.
44:29
But one of the other reasons they're in trouble is rural
44:32
hospitals in Wisconsin are
44:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:59
Toposki has lived in the tight-knit community of over 1,500 for
45:04
about 30 years.
45:04
Many residents see the doctor at the local clinic,
45:06
she said,
45:07
and they have for years.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: That's it until it abruptly closed earlier this year.
45:12
Hospital Sisters Health System and Previa announced a complete
45:16
exit from Western
45:17
SPEAKER_02: Wisconsin in January,
45:18
SPEAKER_02: which included closing two hospitals,
45:20
SPEAKER_02: 19 clinics,
45:21
SPEAKER_02: including Augusta.
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Toposki says of her town was shell-shocked.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: So this is not just happening in Wisconsin.
45:27
This is also a phenomenon that seems like it is happening in
45:31
Pennsylvania as well
45:33
and is starting as sort of the rural hospital apocalypse that
45:37
we were discussing
45:38
SPEAKER_02: last year during the passage of the one big,
45:40
SPEAKER_02: beautiful,
45:41
SPEAKER_02: the bill.
45:41
It seems like the first the first significant chickens are
45:45
coming home to roost.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
45:46
SPEAKER_00: and as these systems are planning for the realities after the midterms,
45:50
because that's when they set most of these Medicaid cuts to
45:52
start happening,
45:54
SPEAKER_00: their reality is they know they can't make it work,
45:57
SPEAKER_00: right?
45:57
SPEAKER_00: And how,
45:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
45:58
SPEAKER_00: in a place like Wisconsin,
46:00
SPEAKER_00: I know in Michigan where I've lived and worked for,
46:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:03
SPEAKER_00: two decades or more,
46:04
SPEAKER_00: a million people have expanded Medicaid,
46:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:07
SPEAKER_00: because of Healthy Michigan.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know the exact numbers in Wisconsin,
46:12
but somewhere on that scale of individuals who currently don't
46:16
have health coverage
46:18
SPEAKER_00: or are paying too much for health coverage that could have better access.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hopefully.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing to me,
46:24
SPEAKER_00: though,
46:24
SPEAKER_00: guys like Robin Voss,
46:25
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:25
these folks who – because you read the statement and nothing in
46:28
the statement says,
46:29
SPEAKER_00: ooh,
46:29
SPEAKER_00: it's a bad year for Republicans and these districts look really tough.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: It's about, well –
46:33
And I believe he had a health scare early in the year,
46:35
so maybe there's a component.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: But like, oh, I've got to spend more time with my family.
46:39
Everyone wants to spend more time with their family as soon as
46:41
it looks like it's
46:41
SPEAKER_00: going to be really hard to get reelected.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: That, I don't know.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know all of the motivations behind him leaving,
46:48
SPEAKER_00: but certainly seems like some of it is what you described at the top.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: You can imagine Darth Vader coming out with his lightsaber and like,
46:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to spend more time with my family.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: Robin Voss doesn't want to spend more time with his family.
47:00
Yeah.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: You just cut the hand off your son, Darth Vader.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: We don't buy it.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: He wants to joust with his son for the lightsaber.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: I'll nerd out on Star Wars all day.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Unbelievable.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, hopefully good news coming to Wisconsin.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully good news in Wisconsin.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: It's like it might be the best thing the Trump administration.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Dude, it's in a really roundabout way.
47:25
SPEAKER_02: He got rid of Robin Moss.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: Those clinics closing is a tragedy.
47:29
SPEAKER_02: But it's incredible that it's a sea change.
47:35
SPEAKER_02: And what you're seeing,
47:36
and we'll do more on this later in the year as we get closer to
47:39
the primary.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: Wisconsin has a really late primary.
47:41
But what you're seeing in the Wisconsin primary is now that
47:44
Robin Voss is leaving
47:45
SPEAKER_02: and the aperture on what they might be able to do.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: Wisconsin historically is an incredibly progressive state.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: It's a joiner state.
47:53
It's a state that thinks about the social safety net in similar
47:56
ways that Minnesota
47:57
SPEAKER_02: thinks about it.
47:57
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: And you could see them just racing ahead and expanding Badger care,
48:04
SPEAKER_02: expanding insurance in the state.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: It could really be it could really special.
48:08
I'm excited to talk to Dr.
48:10
Lyerly in the future on this program,
48:12
hopefully about that.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: I know she's been covering a little bit about it,
48:15
but the gubernatorial candidates are kind of like trying to out
48:19
public option each
48:20
SPEAKER_02: other.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: And in order to on the Democratic side and then on the Republican side.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: You know,
48:26
there's just it's down to it's down to one guy and he doesn't
48:29
have a plan for
48:29
SPEAKER_02: health care,
48:29
SPEAKER_02: just like the National Republican Party.
48:31
But there's just a lot of energy and excitement about about
48:34
what the possibilities are.
48:36
The insurance front at the same time that there's this real
48:39
hardship in Western
48:39
SPEAKER_02: Wisconsin with actual clinics and hospitals closing.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: So a bit of a mixed picture in terms of access,
48:44
SPEAKER_02: but from a public policy standpoint,
48:47
SPEAKER_02: pretty exciting.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
48:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't, Rob, I think that that might be it for today.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: I think I've kept you a long time.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Just us, you and I talking about healthcare politics.
48:58
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Why don't I,
49:02
SPEAKER_02: anything else you want to add or should we just,
49:04
SPEAKER_02: should we just take it,
49:05
SPEAKER_02: read us out here?
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Let's have you read us out.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
49:08
Today's episode was written by Chris Savage,
49:10
Dr.
49:11
Rob Davidson,
49:11
and me,
49:12
Miles Baker.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: It was produced by Amelia Dillenschneider, Joel Bryson, and Chris Savage.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: It was edited by Darian Battigan,
49:17
SPEAKER_02: and our music is by Annette Somerset at Duneflower Productions.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's show,
49:21
SPEAKER_02: please subscribe and leave us a rating on YouTube,
49:23
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49:24
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49:25
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49:26
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49:28
SPEAKER_02: and you can follow us at Paging America on Substack,
49:31
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49:32
SPEAKER_02: a contributing subscriber on Substack.
49:34
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49:35
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49:37
SPEAKER_02: Physicians, your voice matters.
49:38
Join the fight for better American health care by becoming a
49:40
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49:41
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49:42
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49:47
SPEAKER_02: Dr. Rob, always great chatting with you.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: And for folks listening, thanks so much for tuning in.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: We'll see you next time.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: See you.