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Greatest Human Villains (Not Named Hans Gruber) · Average Home Theater Reviews

• speaker-0: Hey, welcome in Average Home Theater. I am Nelson. speaker-1: Hey everybody, it's producer Nick. speaker-0: As if y'all didn't know. speaker-1: Right. I mean w why do people why do people tune in? speaker-0: Hey, look, also, today is September second, so we're in spooky season. speaker-1: It's coming up. It's coming up. speaker-0: No no no no no no. September first, Nicholas. September. speaker-1: Look, I'm still I'm still new. I'm still new to speaker-0: Learning, learning, but no, we are in spooky season right now. speaker-1: Okay. Well it sure feels like it outside. ⁓ speaker-0: No, it does not. Still ninety eight degrees outside. speaker-1: We talked about Yeah, it's god awful hot outside. It's it's actually been a little bit better. It's been raining in the last couple of days. And it's kinda cool. It was little So it's in the high yeah, high eighties, low nineties instead of a hundred and five. Right. That thank goodness didn't seem to be too too devastating. speaker-0: Right. It it was overcast. That's only because of a tropical storm. Well, we got lucky. Some some places in Texas got like twenty something inches, so you know. But anyway, so today we are going to list our top ten or our top ten greatest human villains, not named Hans Gruber. speaker-1: Yes, because that just wouldn't have been fair. speaker-0: Because it's not well, I mean there's Hans Gruber and then there's everyone else. Okay. ⁓ no greater villain. Nick and I kinda agree on that, that he's he's the best. Yeah. He's the most just cold blooded, smart, calculated. speaker-1: And Charismatic, funny. Yeah, he he checks all the boxes and yeah. there he's an exceptional thief. there there's yeah, there's him and there's everybody else. He sets the bar and everyone else tries to reach it. So it would not have been fair to include him on our lists. And this is something that we've been talking about doing for a very long time. ⁓ speaker-0: Well dressed. Probably a couple of years now we've been talking about it. We just never got around to it. speaker-1: Never got around to it. speaker-0: After c trying to compile this list, I kind of see why, because it was way more difficult than I thought it was going to be. Then we had to distinguish between villain and antagonist. So, ⁓ because there are quite a few who were like the bad guy in a movie, but were they really a villain? Yeah. And the number one example we came up with is Colonel Nathan Jessop. speaker-1: Well we ⁓ we had talked about that and we we might we might disagree. I'll I'll I'll plead my case. I'll plead my case to the people. speaker-0: So he's he's my one of my honorable mentions, and that's because I don't feel that he was a villain per se. I feel that he was ⁓ a turd and he had a mission and he was gonna do what he had to do. Whether innocent people went to prison, an innocent guy died accidentally, he was going to cover it up because I'm Colonel Nathan R. Jessup. There are every day I eat breakfast from 10,000 Cubans who are trained to kill him. So anyway, that's that's why I did not put him on my list. And he's an honorable mention, because to me, he's not quite a villain. He was just more of a an antagonist piece of crap. speaker-1: Yeah. So when I when I get to my list I'll I'll have a hopefully an an ⁓ an acceptable counterpoint. speaker-0: Okay, so I'm gonna go through mine first and then we'll go through your honorable mentions. I'll go through mine first and then we'll go through yours. speaker-1: So before we get started, my my list is more I we've talked about it a million times on the show, I feel like. ⁓ a good villain makes or breaks a movie. Absolutely. ⁓ so I I went for maybe not even the best. Some of mine might be a little unconventional. Some of ⁓ are pretty easy picks, I think. But ⁓ just kind of the ones that stood out to me my my favorites. There are there are probably greater ones. There are movies, of course, that I haven't seen. Of course. These are the ones that stood out to me and without these villains, these movies just wouldn't have wouldn't have been nearly speaker-0: That's why we make lists. That's right. Because everybody has seen different movies and has different experiences. So that's why we make these lists. speaker-1: And when we first talked about it, I was thinking, Man, we're gonna have very similar lists but the more I think about it, th I think they're gonna be speaker-0: We might have one or two, but that's about it. So first honorable mention, Hawkins by which is Gary Bucy in Surviving the Game. I know you've only seen it the one time, but he was an insane crazy person. speaker-1: Yeah. Okay. That once with you, yeah. So Gary Busey basically played himself. speaker-0: Correct. But he was I don't know if you remember the scene where he's describing how his dad made him kill his own pet dog when he was like eleven years old. And he tells that story and then you just realize, ⁓ my God, this dude is nuts. And then of course in his Gary Bucy ways, acting crazy and screaming, and he is just he makes the movie. I mean, even though he's he doesn't last very long in the movie, his presence just Just elevates it. Yeah. ⁓ so but that's also why he's an honorable mention. If he'd you know, made it through the movie longer, then he probably would have been in the top ten, but he just didn't quite make it but I had to mention Gary Bucey at some point. And you know, I love him in under siege, but to me he's he's crazy in this movie. speaker-1: Didn't have Yeah. Yeah. Under siege was a little bit more comical. speaker-0: Yeah. Okay, so my second honorable mention is ⁓ Damon Killian, played by Richard Dawson ⁓ in the original The Running Man. speaker-1: Knew that was gonna be on your list. speaker-0: That dude is he makes the movie in all honor between him and Arnold, but without Killian, that movie is nowhere. I mean, cause we know the movie is schlock, right? It's stupid schlock. It's silly. But he just he hams it up, man, and he just elevates that role and it's great. speaker-1: He was the quintessential game show host, which is kinda what he plays himself, that's exactly right. I see I see a theme. I'm seeing a theme here. Yeah, a game show host that he also plays on TV. speaker-0: Himself. Okay, so my next one is Alex Forrest played by Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. speaker-1: Okay. Okay, yeah, I see that. speaker-0: was a crazy person. She was crazy before he started his affair with her. Yes. And I think he just kind of brought it out of her when he tried to break it off and she just went plum nuts. You know? speaker-1: Yeah. And that's also something I've only seen once with you. I had never I knew what the movie was. I had heard about it. I knew it was kind of like a ⁓ kind of a classic of of the genre, something that everyone had seen and I had never seen it. And I really, really liked it. it wasn't wasn't ⁓ what I was expecting at all. Michael Douglas plays himself, and then yeah, Glenn Close was a very very good villain, very good pick. speaker-0: Yeah, she was she was cuckoo. Next is ⁓ Fallon, played by Dennis Leary in Judgment Night. Now I don't think you've ever seen Judgment Night. speaker-1: I've never seen Judgment Night. speaker-0: But man, Dennis Leary is awesome in that movie. I I don't think Dennis Leary gets enough credit for his acting chops. ⁓ be between this and like ⁓ Demolition Man, Rescue Me, I mean Dennis Leary is a really good actor. speaker-1: I remember you talking very highly of ⁓ of Rescue Me. I remember you you talked you talk about that show a lot. speaker-0: But he's he's a crazy psycho, you know, leader of the gang type thing in that movie. And it's one it's it's almost like a siege movie, but really not. They're not stuck in like a building, but they're stuck in a terrible neighborhood in Chicago, and this gang is chasing them and there's nowhere to go. Nobody's gonna help ⁓ you know. Right. ⁓ it's a it's a great movie, very underrated. ⁓ I forget what they Why something happened. There was an event. And because that event happened, the movie like didn't get a ⁓ theatrical release or something. It might have been OJ. Might have been the OJ thing. There was something going on. Yeah. And ⁓ the movie got got canned by the theaters and it was a ⁓ a rental only came out on VHR. Yeah. And that's why they make it big is because yeah. speaker-1: That's why yeah. speaker-0: I I'm I'm pretty sure it was ⁓ I'm pretty sure it was OJ, but if not, it was something else. There was something else going on and they speaker-1: If it was maybe O J or like was that around the time of the Rodney King, the LA riots and all that could have been that. speaker-0: So it was some there was some big event where something controversial was going on and the movie didn't make it to the theaters and it suffered. speaker-1: That's why like I know that's something you've always a movie you've always loved and you've you've you know, you've watched it. speaker-0: And the soundtrack, you know, is considered one of the best soundtracks ever, you know. speaker-1: It's just it's not something that I ever it's not something I ever heard of even growing up. Like I know it from you and that's it. I've never seen it. That would e that would explain why though. That it didn't get a it didn't get a yeah, I'm surprised you even let me on the show anymore 'cause I haven't seen speaker-0: Well you need to sit down And then my last honorable mention is Herod, played by Gene Hackman in The Quicken the Dead. ⁓ speaker-1: Okay. ⁓ speaker-0: He's fantastic. And I mean, it just think of his character in Unforgiven, just in a more hammed up Sam Raimi, because it's Sam Raimi that directed it. So it's got his crazy visuals and and style of directing. ⁓ but he really hams it up and he is just phenomenal. That's in this. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Russell Crowe person. Russell Crowe, Sharon Stone, and Leonardo DiCaprio maybe is in it. Okay. Keith. Okay, I didn't know he was in it. speaker-0: What's ⁓ Lance Hendrickson? I mean, you need to watch this movie. It's a really good good Western. It's not like a unforgiving good Western. It's more of a I don't know, Hollywood kind of speaker-1: Okay. Yeah. More of a modern, kinda young guns western. speaker-0: Yeah, with a very distinct style to it. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, need it it's not something I'm opposed to watching. When I went through my little western phase not too long ago, I had added it to the list, just never really got around to watching it. I still haven't watched it. Those are my honorable mentions. Okay. I like those honorable mentions. I have some of my own. I have a maybe a couple of more. Maybe I have too many. I'm gonna whittle my honorable mentions down. so I love the movie The Menu. ⁓ other than Star Wars, I've seen it speaker-0: Keep it down to like five. speaker-1: ⁓ probably the most like I watch it all the time. I know. And my my villain from that movie is not the chef. It's not Julian Slowick. It's Tyler. Tyler who the one who brings Anya Taylor Joy's character to the thing, knowing that they were all going to die. Right. I can't possibly think of a more villainous thing to do to speaker-0: The one who brings her there? speaker-1: invite someone to an event to a function that you know how it's gonna end and ever no one's gonna make it out. ⁓ this poor innocent girl. And the only reason she got invited was because he was going with someone else, a girlfriend, and the girlfriend broke up with him, so he hired this girl to go with him, knowing that ⁓ man, I guess I mess I guess I should have made a spoiler alert on that if you've never seen it. But a piece. So yeah. speaker-0: Put spoilers on top. speaker-1: Yeah, so I I love that movie and I love him in it. He's such a a douchebag in the movie and so like pretentious and then you find out later that he knew what was gonna happen and brought that girl anyway. I think that was quite quite villainous. another another this is a group of villains that are on my list just because for the longest time this was the scariest movie I had ever seen. is the strangers from the strangers. long story short, they tortured and terrorized and murdered some people because and I quote because they because you were home. That's that's why they did it, because they were home. I mean, ⁓ that's doesn't get much worse than that. the next person on my list is a movie that we've talked about and this is just from a speaker-0: It doesn't get much worse than that. speaker-1: I mean the character was awesome. ⁓ much like a Hans Gruber. but the the actor, the portrayal of it was Merrick from No Escape. I have I have Merrick on my honorable mentions list. speaker-0: You can just list his whole filmography and just say speaker-1: Yeah, that guy. much much like a Hans Gruber, very charismatic, funny, cruel, did not have any problem with, you know, killing people. so Merrick from Noah and why can we can never remember the guy's name? I'm sitting here speaking Yeah. I'm sitting here speaking about him, trying to think of his name and I can't remember the the guy's name. I'm sorry. speaker-0: Talk about ⁓ almost every video. speaker-1: another honorable mention that I have I think it this made my honorable mention and not my list because the character is so far fetched and so fictionalized, but man, Bill the Butcher, Daniel Day Lewis from Gangs in New York. I mean, talk about every movie he's in. ⁓ I I almost put there will be blood on here also, ⁓ Daniel Plainview. Plainview. But ⁓ Bill the Butcher, talk about make a movie. Like one actor and make a movie. Cause it I mean, it's all right. The more you watch it, kind of the less good it gets, maybe. But man, he was he was so good. He was so awesome in it. so And I do I do I have two more. One is I I wanted this actor on my list. and that is Michael Wincott, I'm gonna combine two roles, Guy of Gisborne from Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, and Top Dollar from The Crow. that dude is awesome. I don't know how he was not in every movie in the nineties at and some as a villain or whatever. he was great in Alien Resurrection. That's like the top three. I can't remember even a lot of things with him in it. speaker-0: has a villain's voice. speaker-1: Yeah, that voice is so distinct. ⁓ love that guy. It's it's sh it's it's upsetting to me emotionally that he was not in more stuff in that era because I mean once again, guy of Gizborne and Top Dollar. anyway, I had to mention him. And then my last honorable mention, I wanted to throw it on there because this is a trilogy type ⁓ It's a trilogy of movies, and I just finished watching the middle one, which is the best one by far to me, is ⁓ Pearl. both because of the character and Mia Goth's portrayal and her her acting in that role. ⁓ it it's she she blows my mind. Like it's one of those movies, every time I watch it, I like it even more, and I'm mesmerized by her even more. The the seven minute monologue she has at the speaker-0: Seen it the one time and i it was fantastic. speaker-1: Yeah. You you gotta you gotta gotta watch that again at some point. speaker-0: Way better than X. I think X is one of the most overrated generic slasher horror movies that I've ever seen. speaker-1: Yeah. I I I mean it's I like X. I love X speaker-0: It's not like they people were actually saying this was groundbreaking, that it was reinventing horror and I'm like, What are you talking about? It's a it's a slasher movie. speaker-1: I don't think it reinvented anything. I think it borrowed a lot from a bunch of different ⁓ franchises. Which I mean they went for the Yeah. speaker-0: Do but it it was just it was just another run of the mill horror movie. speaker-1: It it's good and I like it, but I agree, overrated. But Pearl was Pearl was something different. She she ate up that movie. ⁓ I mentioned she's got that that long monologue at the end, the the the op the closing credits when she's just smiling and it just goes on and on and on and her face gets all contorted and and and all of the murdering that she does. I mean she kills her mom, she kills her dad who's infirm. She likes she j I'm married. speaker-0: She arms a scarecrow. speaker-1: she she dry humps the scarecrow, she kills the movie theater guy, she kills her best friend because she got the part and that that scene nuts that scene gives me chills and like she's telling the girl all this stuff that she's done and sh all these people she's killed, and the camera is a close up on her face the whole time, and then they cut to the other girl, she's just like Well, I've got to go now. speaker-0: I need to leave. speaker-1: I have to leave. I'm in danger. And then she gets her her limbs and head chopped off. So ⁓ it was it was hard to not put Pearl on my list. She's an honorable mention. but again this is fluid. Ask me tomorrow, she would be on my on my on my temp. speaker-0: All right. speaker-1: Honorable mentions. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Okay, so I have ten left. So I'm ready. I'm ready for the drum roll. speaker-0: So number 10 is very obvious. It's going to be my least surprising. And it's only because I just no matter how off how much I went through this list, I couldn't not put him on there. Especially after all the crap I've talked about this character for years and years and years. And that is The Joker by Jack Nicholson. I just could not not put him on here. Yes, he's better than Heath led. I I stay. Let me rephrase that. I don't think that there's a competition between the two. I think they're so vastly different. Don't even need to compare them. Yeah. I just prefer this version of the Joker over Heath's version. Because this one, I feel like when I watch this Batman, which in my opinion is the best one, I feel like I'm watching a comic book movie, you know, more than The Dark Knights, more grounded in reality. ⁓ but his man, I mean. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ what else what else can you really say about this performance that hasn't been said? ⁓ I I know he loves it, he's very proud of that role. Yeah. And he went for it and man, he just he crushed it. Like you cannot say the Joker. I I dare anyone to say the Joker and not think of Jack Nicholson first. Yeah. Especially our age. speaker-1: So my list has the Joker also. ⁓ speaker-0: Not supposed to give it away till you get there. speaker-1: I ⁓ wait, no. Well, I I'm not gonna go in any kind of order. So I'll just let you know that the Joker is on my list. I I thought of the Joker as a character, like how can the Joker not be on this list in some way or another? And this is I'm gonna read verbatim what I have down in my notes. The Joker, Jack Nicholson, hands down the best Joker in my opinion. Crazy played perfectly by crazy. Yeah. The man is crazy and he played a crazy person and he just did like yeah perfection. And the comic comically crazy ⁓ was serious when he needed to get serious. Just the the the perfect gamut of ⁓ of a an excellent, especially that style, that over the top comic book style villain. speaker-0: Yeah. I mean even before he was the Joker, when he was just Jack Napier, he was just you can tell he was an evil person. and to see the transition and it's I get so much joy watching that movie and I cannot wait for his scenes more than anything. speaker-1: Yes. And it's it's interesting you say that. It's something that you kinda forget. He basically played two roles in that movie. Yeah. ⁓ he basically played two characters and it's something that speaker-0: One was very deadpan and serious and just just a jerk and then serious, but he does it in like a crazy wacky way. So it's it's the same guy doing the same sinister things, just different ways, you know. speaker-1: A jerk. Opposites but the same. So yeah, I I'll piggybacked off of that one. You go ahead with your next one because the Joker was on on my list for sure. speaker-0: So this one, I told you I had one that came from a movie that I haven't watched in probably twenty years. And I've maybe seen it twice all the way through. It's a great movie. It's just very difficult to get through because of the subject matter and whatnot. And this guy is so evil in the movie that I still remember just how much I hated him. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And I haven't seen the movie in twenty years. And that is Colonel William Tavington from Jason Isaacs and The Patriot. speaker-1: Okay. man, how did I not think of the Patriot? How? Yes. speaker-0: Horrible of a person was he. And when we started talking about this list, he just jumped in my head. I was like, I gotta put Jason Isaacs on here because the fact that it stayed with me this long, yeah, and it's a movie that I haven't watched in two decades, but I still remember how he made me feel watching that in a theater is just I couldn't. speaker-1: ⁓ man. I so that's that's one of the movies like when I first started going to the movies, that's one of the ones that I went see and I'm pretty sure I saw it multiple times at the movies. And I feel like a stupid idiot for not including him on my list. When he kill because he kills he kills well, he kills Heath Ledger, but before that, doesn't he kill Mel Gibson's younger son like he's trying to help him and they shoot him in the back and He kills Mel Gibson's son in front of him and says stupid boy. speaker-0: So he kills two of his kids? See, I don't even remember that. Because I'm pretty sure he's the one that killed Keith Ledger later, right? I don't know. It's been so long since I've speaker-1: He does it it has been. I I just I remember I remember one of the younger kids running to to get a weapon to get a rifle. Some thing. And he he calls him a stupid somebody kills him and Jason Isaacs looks at him and says, Stupid boy. And ⁓ yeah, I mean opposite of one of Mel Gibson's best performances, you know? Yeah, that you can't That's an that's an excellent pick. I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it. speaker-0: I like I said, still sticks with me. I just remember the feeling of wow. speaker-1: Yeah. Horrible person. And and then like he wants to do all these terrible things, but the English commander or whatever won't let him like no we're that's not how we do warfare and then he finally is like, Well, I can do these things and if I'm caught I'll be held responsible, but if I'm not caught I want to be taken care of so he kinda makes a deal so we can kinda break with, you know, the the warfare, the traditions of the time and do all these terrible things. ⁓ Yeah, he was he was fantastic. You're right. Good pick. Very good pick. speaker-0: You're number nine. speaker-1: My number nine, I mean I'm I'm just gonna kinda go down my list. My number nine, my next one I should say, is from Star Wars. And it is not the villain that most people think of when they think of Star Wars. This is from Star Wars. I'm not gonna say episode four because it's the original Star Wars. It is not Darth Vader. The villain from the original Star Wars movie is Tarkin. Tarkin who decided to blow up a planet and kill billions of people to set an example because blowing up another planet wouldn't have been an effective enough demonstration on the power of the Death Star. I mean, can it really get more evil than blowing up an entire planet and destroying billions of people in an instant to set an example? Because if I'd have blown up Dantoween, then not enough people would have died for them to be taken seriously. speaker-0: Fear not, we'll get to your rebel friends soon enough. speaker-1: We will get to your rebel friend soon enough. so that has always stuck with me. I love Darth Vader. I love that. speaker-0: He still has good in him and he and there's a retribution. So he really can't be anywhere on this road. speaker-1: Yeah. Tarkin, there's no coming back. There's no coming back from what he did. Right. there will be no ⁓ there will be no ⁓ no coming back from that. So that is ⁓ speaker-0: I would say the genocide of a of a planet would put speaker-1: That would qualify that would qualify him. Yeah. I'm glad I'm glad you agree with that. speaker-0: ⁓ I just got a text message from someone who just watched my movie The Landry Incident. He said, Not going to lie, I jumped once. So I got him. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. There you go. Shameless plug. That's good timing, man. speaker-0: I got him. Anyway, go watch the Landry incident. It is streaming on Horrorhound TV right now. I will put a link in the description. speaker-1: That is awesome. And it is fantastic. speaker-0: Okay, so next, number eight. We already mentioned this series of movies, ⁓ but he this one was not in my list. Then I put him back on. I think I did it twice. Okay. But I just kept coming around to it. One because I love the actor, and two, because he was cold blooded SOB. And that would be Colonel Stewart, played by William Sadler in Die Hard Two. speaker-1: Mm. Okay. speaker-0: So you have you ever seen Die Hard Two? speaker-1: I've seen Die Hard 2. It's it's the one that I've watched the least. I like it. It's not that I don't like it, but it is the one that I have watched the least and it's the one that I remember the least. I remember him in it. Yeah, I remember him in it, but to say I really remember his character, ⁓ speaker-0: Kinda like that for most people. I mean he intentionally crashes a plane full of people and lets them explode and burn alive. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: hundred feet. He lowered the deck two hundred. He raised it two hundred feet. speaker-1: Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't remember him being the one that did speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, it was him. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, that's that's a good take coming. speaker-0: Had to suffer a severe penalty for not doing what he said. So it's very, it's very similar to what Tarkin did, just on a you know, not a whole planet, just a smaller scale. Murdered basically 300 people in an airplane because correct. And I mean it doesn't get much more but his whole performance in that movie, and I mean William Sadler, you know who he is, right? speaker-1: But yeah. To show them he meant business. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. I mean Shawshank Redemption. Yeah. Everything else. speaker-0: His ⁓ just cold blooded steel blue eyes that he has and he's just I mean he's one of my favorite actors. I love the guy. He's in the first ever Tales from the Crypt episode. I mean he's just and the man killed that role, and he's probably the best part of Die Hard Two because Die Hard Two is arguably I mean, next to that latest one that speaker-1: Get those snake eyes. Yeah. Excellent. But it's speaker-0: As far as the like original let's say three movies, ⁓ you know, it's the least good. speaker-1: It's ⁓ it's pretty far fetched. They all are. Yeah, yeah. It's it's the one that I've I've watched the least. I like it, but I can I can skip that. speaker-0: Definitely a Christmas movie because takes place on Christmas Eve, lots of snow. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. People traveling for Christmas time. Yeah. All right. Good pick. So my next pick, we've we've talked about this actor. ⁓ but I have him as of a a villain in a different role. Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Nottingham. in ⁓ Robin Hood Prince of Thieves alongside Michael Wincott who have I've already discussed and it's this pick was not because it's kinda because I couldn't put Hans Gruber. But ⁓ look, he's not the most evil person on this list. He's pretty evil. speaker-0: ⁓ he's pretty easy. I mean murdered Guy of Gisborne. speaker-1: Yeah, but ⁓ For me it was more yeah, for ⁓ like a misunderstanding. Yeah. but for me it's the it's the performance and he has to be on this list. Alan Rickman as ⁓ the Sheriff of Nottingham. One of the movies that I grew up watching one of the first movies I can remember going to see at the movies, and just a a character and a performance and a movie that has always stuck with me. ⁓ had to had to add him. Had to add ⁓ Excellent. And you know, it's it's sad because the two different versions of that movie. ⁓ you know, the version with all the extra stuff with Mortiana, the witch and all that stuff, it kind of softens him. Yeah. It it softens him and makes him more comical than the than the theatrical release. So it's it's upsetting to have seen that. I wish I would have never seen it, but ⁓ speaker-0: And it's I love that movie. The good thing is the only thing I really remember is the fact that the witch is like a fraud. speaker-1: Yeah, she was spying on him the whole time. speaker-0: So I'm I can like I'm willing to say, you know what, that's fan fiction. They cut it out for a reason. They didn't want her to appear as a fraud. They obviously wanted her to appear as maybe she's a real witch. And so that's how I choose to watch the movie. ⁓ but I don't remember anything else other than that one specific scene. So thank goodness I've only seen that version once. speaker-1: Yeah. And a lot of that too was ⁓ his awesomeness in that was I just remember a lot of the way it was shot, like the the close ups. Seeing the seeing the sweat on his face and his when he would get so further I'm gonna cut your heart out with a spoon he would get so angry and he was really kind of bubbling. speaker-0: ⁓ it's a yeah, it's a great one. Why not an axe or a speaker-1: Because it's dull, you twit, it'll hurt more I mean, come on. So yeah, mister Rickman, may he rest in peace. definitely deserves a spot on the all time villains list, not Hans Gruber. speaker-0: Right. Okay. speaker-1: Good pick, good pick. speaker-0: My next one. John Rider played by Rutger Hauer in the Hitcher. speaker-1: Yes. I had zero doubt that this would be on your list. speaker-0: I mean, like I told you, s he scared me as a kid. This movie scared me as a kid. Not sure why. Maybe because it seemed more realistic than like Friday the thirteenth, you know? Yeah. ⁓ but that movie it it scared me as a kid. Never was able to get a copy of it as until the 4K came out. ⁓ first time you watched it. speaker-1: Which is the first time I saw it. speaker-0: It is just an excellent movie. He is so good. He's just so and you don't know his motivation. You don't know why he's doing it. A complete psychopath. And yeah. speaker-1: I was gonna say that that's right. So I ⁓ I thought about putting him on my list, but I didn't think it was fair because it's not something that I've watched over and over again. I agree a zillion percent. Awesome villain, awesome movie, awesome performance. ⁓ I just I just couldn't put him because he wasn't I went more of like ones that I was familiar with and kind of my favorites. ⁓ but yeah, ⁓ that's something that I want to watch again. I I I probably just need to get it. ⁓ But it it it was great and it was not what I was expecting and he was fat and like you said, you never really know his motivation, which makes him that much more evil and scary. speaker-0: Yep. And ⁓ everybody's performance is great, but he just he elevates the movie. and the movie would not be half as good as it is if it weren't for the way he portrayed it. I mean they remade it and they got ⁓ what's his name? ⁓ he's in ⁓ Ronin, the one that ended up being a coward that left Sean Bean. Sean Bean played the game during the remake. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: I mean I like Sean Bean and all, but I mean speaker-1: He's n he's not the hitcher. Yeah, he's not the runner hauer. Okay. So all right. Well my next pick is one that I think you will hopefully agree with as well. Joaquin Phoenix is commodus in Gladiator. ⁓ speaker-0: It was on my list, but ultimately I just there wasn't any room. Yeah. But man, was he good. speaker-1: I mean, another one just big, huge epic movie, two larger than life stars playing the two lead roles. Joaquin Phoenix, I mean, I loved him as the Joker, again, a different portrayal, but he will never be as awesome to me in that type of role as he was as commodus in in Gladiator. ⁓ evil, incestuous, murderous, all he cared about was power, killed his own dad. I mean, tried to cheat when he knew he couldn't win, still still killed ⁓ Maximus and then ended up dying in the end. ⁓ yeah, how could he how could he and this was another movie where this is kind of when I started paying attention to movies and watching movies and I watched Gladiator over and over and over again. And what an awesome movie and speaker-0: Tried to when he knew he couldn't win at the end. speaker-1: A big part of that was because of him. ⁓ I and I love the scenes where he where he kinda doesn't get his way. And now the people love Maximus more than they love me. And he just kinda starts breaking down and whining. I I I love that. ⁓ just the evil evil guy played excellently by Joaquin Phoenix. speaker-0: Yeah, there's no doubt he was he's one of the best. ⁓ you hate him so much in that movie, you just you just want to slap him. Yeah. He's ⁓ he's great. He really is. speaker-1: Like ⁓ it's not something on my list, but like I didn't like Kevin Dillon for so long because if there's something about Mary as Pat Healy, he played that jerk so well that I just did not like him as a person or an actor. Not really if speaker-0: This kind of did that for you with Joaquin. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll be honest, this may be the first thing I ever saw Joaquin Phoenix in ⁓ that I can remember. I mean this came out in what year? We were young. speaker-1: It was in the n I mean he was in he was in Tadai Far as a younger guy. I don't know if you didn't see that before. speaker-0: Mid to late nineties. Yeah, but I didn't see it. I'm saying this is the first thing I can remember watching seeing Joaquin Phoenix because I had no idea who he was. speaker-1: Yeah. And man, he's done so much different stuff. He's so good and and versatile. He's one of those where like they cast him in something and it's like, Really? Joaquin Phoenix and then you watch it and it's like, Holy crap, Joaquin Phoenix. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, he's good. Yeah. I mean he's a little off, but that's probably why. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. That's ⁓ that'll it'll it happens that way sometimes. speaker-0: Okay, mine number six. Pretty obvious, but maybe not because in this movie it's technically two villains. You could choose either one. Okay, and neither one of them, in my opinion, would be wrong. They're both great. But this guy, he was so effective as being just ⁓ crap. Anytime you see him, and you can about imagine where if you were in The main character shoes having a deal with this guy. And that would be Captain Hadley by Clancy Brown in the Shawshank Redemption. speaker-1: ⁓ man, that's ⁓ that's a good pick, man. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ good. And like I just thinking, like if you were in Tim Robbins shoes, if you because look, people go to prison all the time for stuff they didn't do. Yeah. And if you're in prison for something you didn't do and you gotta deal with an SOB like that, yeah, like just it's nightmarish, you know. It dealing with inmates is one thing, but dealing with that guy, and he would literally beat people to death. speaker-1: Yeah. And then shot a guy at the end. Yeah. Yeah. For speaker-0: For one of tell the truth. To the he was so good that you think he's really like that in real life. But he's like the nicest guy in the world. You know, I've seen him in so many interviews. Yeah. He's he's just a gentle giant. He's an actor, but he's just so good at this, you know, being doing what or being the bad guy, I should say. speaker-1: And it's so many iconic lines in that movie that he has that we can't repeat here. ⁓ yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, I don't I don't even know why that didn't even and and like you said, ⁓ the war it could have i just as easily been on the list as well. speaker-0: ⁓ we can't repeat ⁓ here. And he's probably ⁓ arguably more evil than Captain Hadley, but Captain Hadley was the one handing out the butt whippens. Right. speaker-1: Yeah. He was the the hammer of injustice. speaker-0: And I mean he's like six five, so he's just physically imposing. Yeah. I mean he's the bad guy in ⁓ Highland. ⁓ he's in Die Hard with Avenge. Remember when he gets in the ⁓ elevator and Bruce Willis just looks at him? He's one of the big big terrorist guys. speaker-1: That was him? Yeah, that's yeah when the the at the at the Federal Reserve or whatever when he gets in the elevator when they go to the speaker-0: Giant that walks in, that's ca that's ⁓ that's Clancy Brown. speaker-1: I never realized that was him. That's awesome. Yeah. Excellent pick. Excellent pick. Can't go wrong with that. ⁓ let's see what I wanna what I wanna do next on my list. I have some that I'm saving for last, but what would you say if I said there was a character who is a hitman, hired hired hitman, hired assassin, and his mission he is he's getting paid to murder. Santa Claus. That would be that would be pretty villainous, right? I'm of course I'm ⁓ Uncle Baby Billy. I'm of course talking about Skinny Man played by Walton Goggins in the in the Christmas movie Fat Man. One of my favorites, probably has become my favorite Christmas movie over the years. but speaker-0: ⁓ he's so good. speaker-1: Walton Goggins in anything, okay, right? But just steal the show. Yeah. Walton Goggins is a guy who's mad at Santa Claus because he didn't get what he wanted as a child, gets hired by another child to travel to the North Pole and murder and murder Santa Claus. I mean, that that that's that's that's gold, right? Yeah, just the premise alone. speaker-0: Just the premise alone. Green is effing stupid. speaker-1: Green is stupid. Yeah, he's trying to pick out his his murder outfit at a at a at an outdoors wear store. just amazing movie. I mean it's got everything. speaker-0: Let's talk about Walden Goggins for a second. What what movie or TV show is this guy in that he does not steal the show? You got Uncle Baby Billy, he steals the righteous gemstones. speaker-1: Yeah. And he's only he's not even really in the first season from what I remember. He comes in late. Vice principals. Justify Fallout. Justify. Fallout. speaker-0: Vice President. Just right. the Shield. I mean, most of these shows, he's not the main character, but he's the reason why you want to watch him. It's unbelievable how how just how likable and how good he is. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic actor. Fantastic villain. I love I love Fat Man and part of the reason is is because of him. speaker-0: So his so his name is credited as Skinny Man? speaker-1: On the credits, I couldn't remember his name. On the credits I went to look it up. His his credited as Skin I think they do say his name in the movie, but in the credits he's he's credited as Skinny Man. I love I love it. So yeah. Had to go with had to go with ⁓ with Skinny Man. speaker-0: Well, number five for me is perfect fitting for spooky season. This person is iconic, started a franchise, and ⁓ the performance, even though this person is only in the movie like ten or fifteen minutes, something like that, maybe not even that much. It's it was a shock when it happened. It shocked you. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: whenever you saw it. And ⁓ that is the great Betsy Palmer as Pamela Voorhees. She was fantastic. She did it only because she needed money to buy a car and thought nobody would ever watch the movie. And now she's considered one of the greatest, you know, movie villains of all time because I said so. And ⁓ yeah, I love her just as much as I love Jason. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Can't disagree. this is one of those ones that I think we've talked about it before. I didn't see this until within the last few years, very recently, and I made it speaker-0: Lived in this house, yeah, you can't watch it. speaker-1: What like five years, six years, something like that? speaker-0: I've lived in this house seven years, but it's only been about three years since you watched it. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ and it's easily the best well, the best Jason movie, probably not necessarily my favorite to watch that goes to Jason. speaker-0: But not the best. You mean it's the best Friday the thirteenth. ⁓ 'cause that's what I I feel is probably overall the best Friday of the thirteenth. Right. But I mean the most fun ones to watch are the ones with Jason. So speaker-1: So and I and it's as you said, I made it, you know, forty something years of my life without knowing that she was the original villain in that original movie. And when I watched it for the first time, I was surprised. speaker-0: I was in short. Yeah, I was in shock watching you not know because I thought for sure you knew. But I didn't want to say anything just in case. And as the movie was going on, I was like, This dude doesn't know. speaker-1: That's ⁓ Nope. That was my I am your father moment. I did not know. I had no idea that she was the that it was the mom doing all the killing. ⁓ yeah. It's one of those speaker-0: Victor Miller just died today, the guy who basically created it. ⁓ Victor Miller. He's one of the I think he wrote the first one, right? Is that right? Okay. ⁓ Sean S. Cunningham directed it, but Victor Miller had something to do with it. And I saw where the reason he did it is because he was inspired by the movie Psycho. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: But he did the opposite where the mom is taking revenge for the son dying. You know what I'm saying so it was kind of a opposite of psycho. Yeah. And that's how he got the idea for Pamela Voorhees. speaker-1: Okay. Well he he did a good job. They made ⁓ they made a few of those. speaker-0: You see the trailer for ⁓ Crystal Lake? speaker-1: Yes. I I washed No no no no not the new one. I'm trying not to I'm trying not to speaker-0: Watch it. After we're finished, you're going to watch it. speaker-1: Yeah, 'cause that show is about her, right? That would we kinda figured it's it's like a prequel. speaker-0: I I don't af you'll see when you watch the trailer, I don't know if it's a prequel. I think it's just kind of its own thing. It's like a reinvention of you know, it it it starts as a prequel. Yeah. But I think as the show is gonna go on, it's it's gonna become its own thing. Okay. And it's not really gonna tie into the movies at all. It's gonna be its own speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, I'd I had seen they were come they had come out with another one but I didn't ⁓ I didn't I didn't look speaker-0: Yeah, watch the trailer, it's good. speaker-1: Okay. Alright. Well I have ⁓ I have a few more left. my next one again, saving kind of the best for last, my favorite for last. I'm actually I'll be surprised if this is not on yours. ⁓ Kathy Bates, Annie Wilkes, ⁓ in the movie Misery. I mean speaker-0: She's all right. I mean, speaker-1: Yeah Yeah. I mean did that did that kinda put her on the map? ⁓ speaker-0: I would say speaker-1: Yeah. But she wasn't she was in movies before that, but she was that was speaker-0: She's relatively unknown. She was very early in her career and ⁓ this is really what skyrocketed it. speaker-1: Yeah. And so that's another one another one that I hadn't I haven't hadn't seen. I hadn't seen until fairly recently. I knew it. I knew what it was about. I knew what she was about. I wasn't prepared. but I I've seen it a couple of times now. And yeah, she's she's speaker-0: So yeah, she's on my list. She was number three. Number three on my list. So I'll just I'll piggyback on now and then I'll my ne I'll just give what was my number four after. But yeah, shey dude, watching it's still hard to watch that movie. I mean, I've seen it several times. Yeah. speaker-1: Okay. But you know what's gonna happen. Yeah. You know what's gonna happen and you still get nervous. speaker-0: Whenever whenever he's he fa he's out of the bed, he was trying to escape, but then he's trying to get back in the bed to pretend like he didn't move and I'm speaker-1: Uh-huh. ⁓ yeah. I'm breathing hard. Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: I don't know what's gonna happen. I still get stressed. speaker-1: And she and she plays she like she flips and plays the nice like you know, ⁓ get back in your bed. Like that's so creepy. So creepy. speaker-0: part where he's like, No, I was just joking. It's like, ⁓ you you silly speaker-1: Yeah, hey you silly goose. Yeah, that that stuff that creeps me out, man. kinda makes you think she's probably a little bit crazy in real life to be able to do something like that. I I don't know. Fantastic. So yeah. ⁓ I I I figured I figured she'd be she'd be up there for you. speaker-0: Great actress, so Okay, well, since that's I guess we'll just use that as my number four. Next is this guy, I cannot forget watching him as a kid. Scaring the crap out of me. I say and it really did, like it was like and it's because ⁓ we were watching the movie way too young. and the movie's very, very gory, but his performance Every time I would see him, I was like, ⁓ that's and that is Clarence Bodaker, Kurtwood Smith from Robocop. speaker-1: Cop yeah, yeah that's a good one. speaker-0: That performance stuck with me so much that every time I would see him in something else, I'm like, ⁓ it's the the bad guy from Robocop. Yeah. speaker-1: And hadn't he like he played like good nice wholesome roles before that? Like this was a huge giant change for him. Big I mean the the the word when I think of his character and that just that name, the just the word that comes to mind is just cold. He was cold, man. He did not he didn't care. I think about him all bloody Yeah. So good. speaker-0: Change for him. on the paperwork call. Just just my brother and I would always ⁓ when we were playing, shoot ⁓ up or beat ⁓ up or whatever we were playing. We would always do like, Can you fly, Bobby? speaker-1: Can you fly Bobby? speaker-0: throws throws his own guy on the police unit. Excellent performance. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah it man, that's something I I don't own that one and I have it it's been in my Amazon court the four K for a long time. I don't own it. I don't own the first Robocop movie. It's been in my Amazon Court. speaker-0: I just own the DVD. I don't have it on four now I do have the four K digital copy, but I do not have a four K physical disc. speaker-1: I I need to get it and I need to watch it because it's awesome and it's not it's not one that I watched a lot as a kid. I've only seen it. I've probably only seen Robocop all the way through maybe twice. What? Not on not on TBS, not on regular TV, ⁓ we' all edited and and whatever. I've probably seen it twice. And I need a I need to fix that. I acknowledge that. I acknowledge that ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ my god. Probably part of what's wrong with me. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That no no kid should have been should have been I'd buy that for a dollar. No kid should have been speaker-0: Like when I think about the stuff that I watched, I would never dream of my kid watching that stuff. Even now. I mean, she's 16 and whenever there's a lot of cursing or something like that on TV, I'm like. speaker-1: Yeah. You know this. speaker-0: The fact that I watched that crap is just unbelievable. speaker-1: Yeah, that's awesome. You had an awesome childhood. speaker-0: Eighties, man, the eighties. speaker-1: Can't go wrong. ⁓ so I have one I have four left. speaker-0: She'd only have two left. speaker-1: ⁓ I might have gone over. ⁓ I have well, let's I do have Nathan Jessup Jessup on mine, Jack Nicholson. But for the reasons that you said, willing to do anything to cover himself, to to cover his career, he gave an order that resulted in the death of one of his men. He not only did he lie about it. speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause I only have two. Right. speaker-1: But he forced his subordinates to lie about it and was willing to let two not gonna say innocent, but two guys who were just following orders go to jail for the rest of their lives ⁓ for doing something that he ordered and didn't want to own up to. And not only that, but ruined his career in the process ultimately, ruined his subordinate's career and caused an old friend of his to lose his honor and commit suicide. So for those reasons, I feel like ⁓ it's a little bit more than a than a protagonist. Like he's got a laundry list that it resulted in two people dying. ⁓ speaker-0: I mean, yeah, there's there's no so there's no ⁓ denying that. I I still don't think it fits my criteria criteria because to me it's more of people who kill or try to kill on purpose and are cold blooded. speaker-1: Yeah. And I I understand that. I I agree totally. ⁓ but that's that's that that's my counterpoint. speaker-0: But his performance was just so good. speaker-1: And that's that's the other part of it, the character and then the way he was portrayed. And I think he's I think he's been quoted as saying and it might be someone else, so I might be wrong about this, but wasn't he quoted as saying like he likes to do different takes and but he said he just he just played the guy and read the words that were written. Like he didn't he didn't ad lib, he didn't improvise and all that stuff. He he read the words that were on the page because it was so well done. Like he basically kinda felt like he didn't have anything that he could change that would have made it better. I might be thinking of another role. speaker-0: I know Kevin Pollack talked about the scene with him and Tom Cruise going back and forth. Yeah. How everybody, when it was it was their day off, they didn't have to be there. P ⁓ actors that weren't even part of the movie knew that this scene was being filmed. Yeah. And they went just to watch him and Tom Cruise go at it. Yeah. ⁓ that's how big of a deal it was. speaker-1: One of the most iconic scenes in cinematic history You could watch that over and over speaker-0: Absolutely. I mean quoted or memed or whatever, you know? Yeah. speaker-1: So so that's I mean, that'll that will not be maybe my next pick, but my counterpoint to to your your non pick. my next actual pick, I I ended up having I have three left and I feel like they need to all three be mentioned. So speaker-0: How did you end up with so many? You you just didn't count correctly? speaker-1: I just didn't count correctly. Or maybe I I might have I might have moved something up and forgot to move something else down from my honorable mentions. this one is not a we're not gonna talk too much about it, but ⁓ man. Mr. Glass from Unbreakable Samuel L. Jackson he basically causes all these tragedies. He's he's got a he's got a a disability. speaker-0: Yeah, it's good. speaker-1: And he's looking for his counterpart. Like if I can be so fragile, they has there has to be a counterpart. There has to be out someone out there that's superhuman and super structur indestructible. And he causes all these tragedies over the years just trying to find this person. And you go through the whole movie not knowing that he's the villain. And then it's revealed at the end of the movie that he's the villain. And what a what a great reveal, what a great shot, great movie. The best for a long time out of that trilogy. speaker-0: Indestructible. speaker-1: I thought this split was my favorite, but I recently watched them all again. and Un Unbreakable is it's head and shoulders. ⁓ I like Split because of James McAvoy and because of Anya Taylorjoy, whom I've said many times before here that ⁓ she's awesome. but Unbreakable is ⁓ is the better movie. ⁓ so I have Mr. Glass on there. And then I'll have two more. speaker-0: Breakable's the best. speaker-1: And I know which one is my one number one. speaker-0: Okay, well we can we can hurry this up because we already talked about Bill the Butcher. He was my number two. ⁓ He Daniel Day Lewis's performance was just so good and he is just a cold blooded SOB. Yeah. ⁓ just speaker-1: Build your okay. Honor Honorable at the same time. speaker-0: Honorable at the same time. It's it's such a it's a complex character, but he is he's just awesome, man. And that movie, he carries the movie. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Leo, yeah, it's long, it's speaker-1: Yes, yeah. It's long and Cameron Diaz was terribly miscast. speaker-0: And whenever you actually watch the movie, you realize just how far fetched and silly it is. ⁓ I remember when it came out, I think it was it was on maybe it was almost shock value because of everything you know, the violence and all of that. speaker-1: It was a big epic and it was in the almost like a speaker-0: You know, by I mean, there was the five points and there were gang, but yeah, from what the research I've done, the violence was nowhere near what is portrayed in that movie. They didn't have these big war, like big battle and and murder massacre and all these people, like that stuff just didn't happen. They would have fights, but it wasn't to the degree of the movie. And when you watch the movie, you realize just how far fetched and silly it is. speaker-1: Big giant gang fights in the streets. speaker-0: But every scene that Daniel Day Lewis is in, you it's almost like he's in a he thinks he's in a different movie. Yes. ⁓ and it he's just phenomenal. And that character is just, like you said, head and shoulders above the rest. speaker-1: Yes, definitely. All right. So my I guess my number two would be this is something that I grew up not really grew up watching, but I watched a ton when it came out after I first saw it. One of my favorite movies, a dirty, gross, uncomfortable movie. and that is ⁓ the character of John Doe, played by the fantastic Kevin Spacey in seven. going around killing people based on the seven deadly sins, and he does not think he's doing anything wrong. ⁓ the the I mean, one of my favorite lines in the movie, he goes through all the people he's killed. I'm gonna say a bad word. He goes through all the people he's killed and Brad Pitt, like they're bringing him to the last victim, and Brad Pitt calls him, you know, innocent people and he says something to the effect of only in a world this shitty would these people be consider or would you call these people innocent and keep a straight face? Like he was nuts and he really believed in what he was doing and just just cold and calm and man I I I love that movie. It's I love Brad Pitt. It's my favorite Brad Pitt movie. Kevin Spacey is awesome. I mean Morgan Freeman, Gwyneth Paltro, but Kevin Spacey steals the show. ⁓ Just an evil, sinister guy who doesn't even think what he's doing is evil. speaker-0: But he knows he's committing sin. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, because yeah, and he yeah, he's he's one of the he's ends up being one of the victims at the end. speaker-0: I mean that whenever the ending of that movie, whenever everything that goes down, I can remember my thought was which is probably what ninety-nine percent of people did whenever there's a reveal. I'm I I don't I don't watch it often and I think it's because it's so heavy and speaker-1: Like Yeah. That blew people's minds. Yeah. It's it's a hard watch. You need to take a bath, you need to take a shower after you watch it. speaker-0: But it's it's very good, man. What's it it's that's that's ⁓ Finch, right? His name speaker-1: ⁓ David Fincher? Yeah, I believe so. ⁓ Your Boy Army Army was in it. Can't forget about mentioning him. speaker-0: Yeah, Fincher. Ron Jeremy's in it. I thought he said Ron Jeremy. speaker-1: No, Arlie Ermy. No, Ron Jeremy. Who's Ron Jeremy? Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about from when I was little. ⁓ so that's my that's my my penultimate. Penultimate. You're putting up So you're you're number one. speaker-0: Who's Ron Jeremy? I've never seen him before. Ultimate choice. So my number one, You recently watched this at my request. You had never seen it, and I don't know why, but this guy actually changed cinema. speaker-1: Yes. Okay. speaker-0: The director changed cinema with this movie. And he pretty much created Slasher. And none other than Anthony Perkins as Norman Bates. How could you get better than the OG? speaker-1: Yeah. The OG. speaker-0: I mean, he was cuckoo. Okay. And Anthony Perkins I don't do a lot of people talk about his performance, his actual performance of it. Like when he's sitting there after he made the sandwich for her and he's sitting there talking to her and he has that really long speech. And as you're watching, like this dude is crazy. speaker-1: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I feel like so that has to be an inspiration for ⁓ a pick that I had earlier, an honorable mention that I had earlier, Pearl. The the the parallels and the the the just going crazy and losing his mind and the long monologue. I mean I see that in like that's that's where this comes from. ⁓ and yes I I had only I've only seen it once. I speaker-0: Did you know kind of the reveal just from pop culture and hearing people talk about it? The first time I watched it, I did not know. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, I knew it was really him. I honest it's something I never wanted to watch because it was an old black and white movie. Isn't that ridiculous? Isn't that ridiculous? But I watched Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah, I mean, how can you like you said, the the OG, the original. ⁓ and it it's something, man, it's something that I've been wanting to watch again, just never got around to it. Because I really did, like everything about the movie, I was shocked at how much speaker-0: Yeah. No, I know what you mean. speaker-1: I liked it. Yeah. speaker-0: Even Mia, I got Mia to sit down and watch it and she thought it was great. She loved it. speaker-1: Yeah. And and then when you think about it in context of the when that came out, like kind of especially for a for a popular movie, like no one had done anything like that before. ⁓ I'm not sure. Was it like the first time how times have changed? It was the first time like a toilet was in the was in the in a movie that they showed a toilet on screen or something like that? speaker-0: It was pretty race. It's 1960, by the way. ⁓ it was very ⁓ racy. Like they showed her and her bra. You know, they're like they're laying in bed making out at the beginning her and her the guy she's gonna run off with. So yeah. It was you know, it was pretty that was a big deal in nineteen sixty, man. I mean speaker-1: Wow. Yeah. I think yeah, I think that it holds I think it's the toilet thing that it holds the record for it's it was the first time. speaker-0: The first time you ever see a toilet in a movie? speaker-1: And once again, I may be wrong. I don't know. I might have seen that some speaker-0: I was an adult. I was a very young adult when I watched this. ⁓ but I had no idea what was going on. ⁓ I had heard about the shower scene and the di- d all that stuff, but I had no idea that it was him the whole time and pretending to be his mom and all of that. I I didn't know. It shocked me. And ⁓ I bought, I remember we went to Universal Studios when I was 16, and I think this is where. speaker-1: Didn't realize it was him. speaker-0: I I watched it. I bought the VHS tape at Universal Studios because there was a a psycho store and there was a psycho show you could watch. And I bought the tape at sixteen years old and I remember watching it. I was like, ⁓ you know, had no idea. speaker-1: That's awesome. Yeah, that's something that I I don't own it. I need to. I'm gonna put it on I'm gonna add it to Robocop on my list of things that I need to speaker-0: actually you could I mean I have the Blu ray steel book. I think I paid like ten or twelve bucks for it. ⁓ there is a four K version. I mean if it's not too expensive I'd get that 'cause I hear it looks really good. Even though it's hard to imagine that black and white could look good in four K, but it actually does. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Excellent, excellent pick. Can't go can't argue with that for being your number one. My number one that I've saved the best for last is this character, this person scared me. and still to this day makes me feel uneasy because of how cold he is and how just how well it's played. speaker-0: Can I pl can I take a guess? speaker-1: ⁓ you can you can guess. speaker-0: Give me one more clue. 'Cause I have this. speaker-1: So the first time I tried to watch this with with Jacob, he was he was probably fourteen or so, probably not appropriate for a fourteen year old, but the first time we tried to watch it after the first ten, fifteen minutes of the movie, he made me turn it off because this character scared him. And that would be Anton Shager. No, not not Hannibal. Anton Shiger from No Country for Old Men, played by Javier Bardium. It's just a cold blooded emotionless crazy killing machine. And it's not even it's not even the killing that makes him so scary. It's the things he says. The the the conversation he has with the the gas station attendant. ⁓ you know. speaker-0: Total disregard for human life. speaker-1: Total dis it didn't matter who it was. He needed a car, he was gonna go kill the person just driving along to get the car. ⁓ the the scene in the gas station, call call it heads or tails, call it, was the most you've ever lost on a coin toss. But the ⁓ the scene with him in ⁓ in Woody Harrelson. ⁓ my favorite actor, my favorite actor Woody Harrelson. speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause you know, you don't like any Woody Harrelson movie. speaker-1: ⁓ where he says, ⁓ do you realize how crazy you are? And he says, You mean the nature of this conversation? And Woody Harrelson says, No, I mean the nature of you. Like, he's just a just a a force of evil, ⁓ a crazy. the only person to stand up to him in the movie and survive was the old lady at the trailer part when he was trying to speaker-0: Not giving out no information. speaker-1: He work. I can't give you no information. speaker-0: And she says she puts a T in there information. Information. speaker-1: Yeah, and then like he just stands there and stares at her in disbelief and she goes Like yeah, like I said it. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, like he was in shock that she wasn't intimidated by him. Yeah. speaker-1: And and I mean, just that that whole movie, ⁓ I don't think that there's any second of the movie where him and ⁓ and Llewellyn Moss ⁓ why can't I think of the actor's name? Josh Brolin. I don't think they have any screen time together at all. Josh Brolin is killed speaker-0: Josh Bolin. Fascinating that you wait for this epic showdown and it happens off screen. speaker-1: It happens all well look, he didn't even kill him. Anton Shager doesn't even kill the Wellamas, it was the Mexican gang. Kills him off screen. You see Anton Shagur there, but they're not they're not the ones that got into the gunfight speaker-0: The gang, right? Like that there's cause there's all kind of dead bodies, or is that you're supposed to assume that Josh Brolin killed all of them? speaker-1: I think that Josh Bolan killed him. He kills some some some of the Mexican gangsters earlier in the movie when he's looking for the case. and then the you know, decides whether people live or die by coin toss. His ⁓ his final scene in the house with ⁓ Llewellyn's wife. it it don't matter what the coin says, it's not up to the coin, it's up to you and He walks out and you have to assume he kills her. He walks out and he's checking his shoes for blood, gets in a car accident on the way from the murder scene, and just walks away. He just walks away and that's the end of the movie. I mean that's not the end of the movie. speaker-0: Then people with like a broken leg and broken arm. speaker-1: Broken arm. ⁓ speaker-0: That shot Josh Rowland shot him in the leg or in the heat. speaker-1: Rolling that shot him earlier, yeah. But the the accident he's he's just let me sit here and think for a minute. He gives the guy ten dollars for his shirt and just just walks away. Tells him, ⁓ when the police get here, you didn't see me. ⁓ when I w when the police get here, you tell them I was already gone. And he walks away. So that guy is still walking amongst us, free to to kill again. one of my favorite movies, not Not something that I can watch over and over again, but one of my favorite movies and seventy-five percent of it is because of Anton Friggin' Sugar. It scares the crap out of me. Because look, let's face it, there are people like that. There are there are people like that that have that mindset that just don't care and have no problem doing whatever and don't think that they're doing anything wrong. And that's that's scary to me. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. I think the problem I have with that movie is is ⁓ I just suffer from the traditional I just I just feel like Josh Brolin's character was robbed. And it just bothers me. I mean, because I think the movie's great. I think his character is awesome. And for him to just go out on screen, just it pisses me off to the highs of festivity. And that's why I cannot enjoy the movie because I know that I'm not going to get what I thought I was going to get. speaker-1: They they wanted to do something shocking and different and it was just it they went they went too far for you. speaker-0: Yeah, it it just and and I know it obviously they did it on purpose. It was it was intentional, but I don't like it. ⁓ speaker-1: And Yeah. I got you. I get it. speaker-0: There should have been it didn't have to be I mean, their little showdown where he shoots him was speaker-1: Awesome. Yeah, in the in the street when they're running through the hotel, yeah. speaker-0: So you have this expectation of there's gonna be something epic and then there's just nothing. Yeah. And so I I just I think the payoff is just not there for me, which is why I can't really enjoy watching the movie that much. Not that I mean, I think it's a great movie. Tommy Lee Jones, you f you didn't even mention him. Yeah. speaker-1: And I great. I misspoke when I said seventy five percent Anton Shagur, fifty fifty Tommy Lee Jones and Anton Shager, because Tommy Lee Jones is freaking awesome. Like my favorite Tommy Lee Jones movie that I can that I can think of. Do till the mess gets here. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. We going in? Out and up. speaker-1: Yeah. What do you say, ⁓ I w I would if I were you. it's ⁓ such a good movie, such an iconic and and speaker-0: As his performances as Anton Shagur is. And he, you know, he comes up on all the lists, but you know, I just I can't I can't do it because I just can't enjoy the movie like I should. speaker-1: Do it 'cause of the movie. I yeah, I get it. I think a lot of people feel that way, but that's something ⁓ I think it's it's it's so different and refreshing to see that they made that choice that I I I enjoy it. It doesn't bother me as much. ⁓ so that's it. That's that's my number one. speaker-0: And there you have it, folks. Greatest villains of all time. speaker-1: And I can't forget. And I I can't believe we forgot to mention most people say this is a joke, but I think it's true. Jenny from ⁓ Jenny from ⁓ Forest Villa. Yeah, she usually makes the top villain list. ⁓ terrible. Terrible. speaker-0: Far as go. Yeah. Terrible. Another reason why I can't watch a movie, I have a hard time watching it because of her. ⁓ and the movie's long. But I think it's a fantastic movie, and I just but it's just one of those really good movies that I just never want to watch. Yeah. It's heavy, it's depressing, it's it is speaker-1: I have ⁓ is. I I was like that for a while. I love it, but I don't I don't watch it very often. Jacob had never seen it, so we watched it. I watched it for the first time with him in in forever and I c cried like a baby. I kid It's a depressing it's just so many things in that movie are such a downer that it's it is hard like every once in a while I like to give myself a good okay, I need to watch something depressing. But ⁓ yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ sure I would cry way more. Well, I don't do that. But so the last time I watched it, I was I did not have a child. There's no way I've watched it since Mia's born. So I know it would hit me in all the right places watching it now. so yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I'm not gonna ever gonna watch it, but there's a reason why I don't, I don't even own it. So this one was quite the opposite. I mean, there were so many more we could have put, and we talked about speaker-1: That was rough. speaker-0: A little over thirty and I think that's that's good. But speaker-1: Barbarian. I like the barbarian. speaker-0: And twenty eight days later. Yeah. I'm curious to see what it looks like. ⁓ being that, you know, how it was shot and everything. Yeah. Curious to see what it but it's in ⁓ they remixed it in Dolby Atmos, so that's what I'm really looking forward to. speaker-1: Yeah, you'll have to let me know. speaker-0: Alright, man. Well, I think that'll do it. Like, subscribe, tell your friends. We'll catch you on the next one. speaker-1: See ya.