Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 24: Babs Part 2: The Deeper Dive

Transcript

Ep. 24: Babs Part 2: The Deeper Dive · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:00
  Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
• 0:13
  My name is Alyssa.
• 0:15
  And my name is Bri.
• 0:16
  We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
• 0:20
  We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
• 0:25
  word.
• 0:26
  And apparently that's controversial.
• 0:28
  Get comfy.
• 0:31
  Hello.
• 0:32
  Hello.
• 0:33
  We're coming to you live from not Disney.
• 0:39
  And also we're not live.
• 0:40
  So there you go.
• 0:41
  I feel barely living.
• 0:44
  Earlier today, I said something about to my daughter about like, where's Auntie or whatever.
• 0:52
  And she was, I think she's dead.
• 0:55
  Because that's my response to everything.
• 0:59
  Probably dead.
• 1:00
  Probably dead.
• 1:01
  Passed away.
• 1:02
  Deceased.
• 1:03
  So that's what happened to you today, even though you didn't know it.
• 1:05
  I felt it.
• 1:06
  Well, there you go.
• 1:07
  I felt it in my knees.
• 1:08
  I felt it on my nose.
• 1:10
  I saw a TikTok.
• 1:12
  No, it wasn't a TikTok.
• 1:13
  It was an Instagram post.
• 1:15
  And it was like, in reality, I'm 19, but my knees are 74.
• 1:19
  My soul is 99.
• 1:21
  And I was like, wow, she really Frankensteined herself.
• 1:26
  I feel the same way.
• 1:28
  Okay.
• 1:29
  But speaking of posts about your body, what was that Bri found this post about like, if
• 1:35
  you were born in the 90s, you have a freckle right in this spot on your arm.
• 1:38
  Oh my gosh.
• 1:40
  Everybody who was born in the 90s, take a look at your left arm.
• 1:43
  At least it's on our left arms.
• 1:44
  It's on our left arms.
• 1:45
  Kind of like go palm up and look maybe two inches from your elbow.
• 1:52
  Is there a freckle there?
• 1:53
  Because there's definitely freckle in mine and Alyssa's.
• 1:56
  What is that?
• 1:57
  I don't know.
• 1:58
  Was it some kind of vaccine?
• 2:00
  That's a weird spot to get a vaccine.
• 2:02
  That would be a strange spot.
• 2:03
  But like skin stretches, I guess.
• 2:05
  Well, but you're not going to get a freckle though.
• 2:08
  Was that our chicken pox vaccine?
• 2:10
  I'm absolutely sure they didn't give it to us on our inner elbow.
• 2:13
  Doctors.
• 2:14
  Can you explain?
• 2:19
  All the doctors out there listening.
• 2:20
  And I'm not just talking medical doctors.
• 2:24
  I'm talking, are you, do you have a doctorate in paleontology?
• 2:30
  Please explain this to us.
• 2:31
  Do you have any answers?
• 2:35
  Because TikTok was not helpful in this particular instance.
• 2:37
  No, it was just like, Hey, by the way, look at your arm.
• 2:40
  It didn't give any other, like nothing else.
• 2:43
  I feel like so many of those things, it's like astrology, you know, when you get your
• 2:49
  fortune for the day.
• 2:50
  I don't know what they call it.
• 2:51
  What do they call it?
• 2:52
  Your astrological prediction for the day that they put in the newspaper or whatever.
• 2:56
  Don't ask me.
• 2:57
  I am not the right one to ask.
• 2:58
  I seem like I should be, but I'm not.
• 3:01
  But they put things in such a general way.
• 3:04
  They're like, you're going to meet a human today and they're going to say words to you
• 3:09
  that obviously it's going to apply.
• 3:10
  But that is wildly specific.
• 3:12
  Yeah.
• 3:13
  And for it to apply to both of us.
• 3:16
  Freckles, left arms.
• 3:18
  Off to the left side of your inner elbow.
• 3:21
  Yeah.
• 3:22
  It's wild.
• 3:24
  We should repost that so that people can figure out if they also have that.
• 3:27
  I should ask our other people that I know born in the 90s.
• 3:31
  Also is it applicable to other people born in the 80s?
• 3:33
  Check your elbows.
• 3:34
  Yeah.
• 3:35
  Are they there?
• 3:36
  Do you have a freckle?
• 3:37
  I need to know.
• 3:38
  Mom?
• 3:39
  Dad?
• 3:40
  That's the only people.
• 3:43
  These are the only people we know, guys.
• 3:45
  We know mom and dad.
• 3:47
  That's it.
• 3:48
  End of the list.
• 3:49
  And they can be your mom and dad too.
• 3:51
  For the low, low price of $19.99.
• 3:54
  I got a mother for sale.
• 3:56
  25 cents.
• 3:58
  We'll keep our dad though.
• 4:00
  Oh, will we?
• 4:02
  Well, he has the DVC points.
• 4:04
  Yes.
• 4:05
  And that's what matters.
• 4:06
  Mom?
• 4:07
  Sorry, mom.
• 4:08
  You're going to buy us some more DVC points.
• 4:09
  It depends on how much we sell her for.
• 4:14
  25 cents is not going to get us very far.
• 4:16
  No.
• 4:17
  What do you think she's worth?
• 4:23
  Our mom is like one of the first people that listens to these episodes every week.
• 4:27
  So sorry, mom.
• 4:29
  She's a big supporter.
• 4:30
  She's a big supporter.
• 4:31
  Of her very, too talented, beautiful, thriving other words.
• 4:37
  Daughters.
• 4:38
  Daughters.
• 4:39
  You forgot the word daughters?
• 4:40
  No, I was trying to think of other descriptors and I ran out of them.
• 4:46
  Bree has a limited number of adjectives in her brain.
• 4:49
  That was it.
• 4:50
  That was all of them.
• 4:51
  Beautiful, talented, and the list ends.
• 4:53
  Oh wow.
• 4:55
  Hurtful.
• 4:56
  We could have been smart.
• 4:58
  I said talented.
• 4:59
  That encompasses many things.
• 5:00
  Does it encompass smart?
• 5:01
  Yeah, it does.
• 5:02
  No, it doesn't.
• 5:03
  Yeah, it does.
• 5:04
  You're talented in smartness.
• 5:05
  What?
• 5:06
  That statement does not really back itself up.
• 5:11
  But we're beautiful.
• 5:13
  That we are.
• 5:14
  And that encompasses a lot.
• 5:17
  Speaking of beauty.
• 5:18
  Oh.
• 5:19
  What a great transition.
• 5:24
  Bree and I have discovered that we are eerily the same person.
• 5:29
  There are times where I think we're very different because personality wise, Bree will open the
• 5:35
  window of the car and sing at the top of her lungs at passersby.
• 5:41
  And I'm melting into the seat next to her.
• 5:45
  You're like, hide me.
• 5:47
  So there's those moments.
• 5:49
  But then a huge percentage of the time, she'll say the thing that's in my head and I'll say
• 5:54
  the thing that's in her head or we just say it at the exact same moment.
• 5:59
  And it's like weird things.
• 6:01
  It's not common things.
• 6:03
  Really obscure stuff.
• 6:05
  We're always thinking the same.
• 6:08
  It's really frightening.
• 6:10
  I think maybe people should check on us, but maybe we're okay.
• 6:13
  Maybe we just have morphed into the same person.
• 6:15
  It's very possible.
• 6:16
  You don't have curly hair yet though.
• 6:17
  You've got to work on that.
• 6:19
  Technically, I do.
• 6:21
  I just avoid it.
• 6:23
  Stop avoiding it.
• 6:24
  I identify as not having curly hair.
• 6:27
  It's not really working for you.
• 6:29
  It's really actually damaging my hair.
• 6:31
  I'll get you a whole routine.
• 6:34
  It'll be great.
• 6:35
  I don't want the routine.
• 6:36
  The people out there with the curly hair, they want you to have the routine.
• 6:39
  No.
• 6:40
  They do.
• 6:41
  They're like, I understand.
• 6:42
  It's a lot.
• 6:43
  Peace be with you.
• 6:44
  All right.
• 6:45
  We've got to get to a point at some point.
• 6:49
  So Bathsheba.
• 6:51
  So if you did not listen to last week's, we started a series on Bathsheba.
• 6:56
  We're going to do three, possibly four episodes.
• 6:59
  We've actually been talking a little bit about what we want to go into and it's kind of extensive.
• 7:06
  So we may extend this out for, I don't know.
• 7:09
  It's our podcast.
• 7:10
  We'll do what we want.
• 7:11
  It's our podcast and not yours.
• 7:13
  But should we come up with a nickname for Bathsheba?
• 7:15
  Because Bathsheba is a mouthful.
• 7:17
  It is a long name to pronounce.
• 7:20
  I'm thinking Babs.
• 7:21
  Oh, okay.
• 7:22
  Sure.
• 7:23
  That feels respectful.
• 7:24
  It's different than what I call the dog.
• 7:27
  Babs.
• 7:30
  So last week we talked, we kind of went through the actual biblical story.
• 7:36
  So if you didn't listen to that, listen, you might want to actually go back to that one,
• 7:40
  listen to that one first and then come to this one because it'll help inform what we're
• 7:44
  talking about this week.
• 7:45
  If you want to spend about two hours with us, then you can go back.
• 7:48
  We're a super amazing time.
• 7:51
  I think that that sounds like a great way to kill a Saturday morning.
• 7:56
  We have looked at some of our statistics and some people are doing that.
• 7:59
  Yeah.
• 8:00
  There have been some people, like seven straight episodes in a row.
• 8:03
  And I'm like, whoa, that's a lot of me.
• 8:06
  That's a lot of Brie.
• 8:07
  That's a lot of me.
• 8:09
  But if you're having a good time, make sure you have a mimosa along with it because that
• 8:14
  sounds even better.
• 8:15
  Yeah.
• 8:16
  I think we're way more interesting with a mimosa.
• 8:19
  Well, I know we are because I've had a mimosa while being with you and it is more interesting.
• 8:23
  I need to get back on topic.
• 8:25
  Let's talk about Babs.
• 8:26
  All right, Babs.
• 8:28
  So this week we're going to talk a little bit more about the research behind the topic
• 8:31
  and people who are smarter than we are, frankly.
• 8:36
  Most people.
• 8:37
  Uh-uh.
• 8:38
  That's true.
• 8:39
  One of the articles we're going to focus on, there's a few we're going to talk through,
• 8:43
  but one of them is from our good friend, Marg.
• 8:45
  Our good friend Marg.
• 8:46
  Different than our best friend Beth.
• 8:49
  Different than that, yes.
• 8:51
  So our good friend Marg.
• 8:53
  She is incredible.
• 8:55
  We've talked about her before.
• 8:57
  She is, the title of her blog includes her name and then exploring the biblical theology
• 9:04
  of Christian egalitarianism.
• 9:06
  And I'm assuming you pronounce her last name, Maskowitz.
• 9:10
  That's not it.
• 9:11
  She actually, I discovered that she has an about section and it does have the pronunciation
• 9:15
  of her name, but I'm not going to try it because I don't want to.
• 9:19
  Does she have a son named Fievel?
• 9:20
  I don't think so.
• 9:21
  To see a little mouse.
• 9:22
  I don't think so.
• 9:23
  Was Fievel a mouse?
• 9:24
  Fievel was a mouse.
• 9:25
  Okay, good.
• 9:26
  Just checking.
• 9:27
  So the article that we're going to talk about first is called A Sympathetic Look at Bathsheba.
• 9:34
  And we talked a little bit last week about the perceptions around this story, around
• 9:39
  who Bathsheba was and why she got this really horrible reputation.
• 9:47
  Because it's really not written into the Bible in any version.
• 9:52
  So, like I said last week, I read through four different versions of this story and
• 9:57
  it's a hard story in and of itself.
• 9:59
  So reading through four versions is tough.
• 10:02
  But I really wanted to get an overview of the newer versions of the Bible, some of the
• 10:09
  older versions of the Bible.
• 10:10
  I read it in the ESV, the KJV, the NIV and the message.
• 10:16
  And if those are very confusing acronyms for you, they're all just different versions of
• 10:19
  the Bible.
• 10:21
  Most of them are translations.
• 10:23
  And if you want to learn more about those things, I recommend researching the purposes
• 10:29
  behind why they were written.
• 10:30
  We could do a whole episode on that.
• 10:33
  We really should.
• 10:34
  But anyway, we're going to look at this article right here.
• 10:37
  I've got it pulled up.
• 10:39
  And one of the things that stood out to me, I'm not going to read through her whole article
• 10:44
  because it is intense.
• 10:47
  It's extensive, but she's a scholar.
• 10:50
  She's just so incredibly smart.
• 10:53
  But one of the great things is that she references every Bible verse that she talks about, every
• 10:59
  research piece that she's looking at.
• 11:01
  So if you want to check her out, would highly recommend that reading this article yourself.
• 11:06
  So one of the first things that she talks about is whether or not Bathsheba was naked.
• 11:12
  Love that.
• 11:13
  Because when you picture, if you know the story of Bathsheba, most people are picturing
• 11:19
  her on her own rooftop, in a bath, naked, on purpose seducing David.
• 11:27
  Like standing there posing, oh, I'm seductively washing my body.
• 11:33
  Where's my dove soap?
• 11:35
  Oops, I dropped it.
• 11:38
  But what Mark talks about is super interesting to me.
• 11:42
  So kind of just the backstory of just this little bit of the story is that King David,
• 11:48
  who is the king of Israel at the time, goes onto his roof in the middle of the day at
• 11:52
  one point when he's not supposed to be home.
• 11:54
  He's supposed to be at war and looks out on the expanse and sees Bathsheba, who we don't
• 12:03
  know that he knew prior to this moment, but he sees her and she's bathing and he finds
• 12:09
  her very attractive.
• 12:10
  So that's the beginning of the story.
• 12:11
  He goes bow chicka wow wow.
• 12:13
  I mean, really he does.
• 12:15
  And so the assumption has been A, that she's on her roof, B, that she's fully naked.
• 12:23
  Now the on her roof thing, I'm not exactly sure where that came from.
• 12:28
  I think we're getting it confused just as a people because he was on his roof.
• 12:33
  For sure.
• 12:34
  For sure.
• 12:35
  But it just says she was within her home.
• 12:38
  As Mark says, at the time women didn't have the luxury of a private bathroom in their
• 12:44
  home.
• 12:45
  That was not a thing.
• 12:46
  I wasn't a thing for a long time.
• 12:49
  Think like, I'm thinking Pride and Prejudice.
• 12:53
  They just hauled a bathtub into the bedroom.
• 12:56
  So you've got to think everyone, men, women, children, are bathing semi publicly, not like
• 13:04
  out in the open, but like potentially with an open window in some space or in their courtyard
• 13:10
  or something along those lines with the expectation that like, oh hey, no peeping Toms are going
• 13:15
  to be on their rooftops staring down at me.
• 13:18
  Fair assumption.
• 13:19
  I would hope that most people out there are showering thinking there's no peeping Toms.
• 13:28
  Unfortunately for Bathsheba that was not true.
• 13:31
  So we assume that she's on her roof.
• 13:33
  That's not biblical.
• 13:34
  That's not what the Bible says.
• 13:35
  It is in all kinds of resources.
• 13:38
  Like there are tons and tons of resources saying she was on her roof.
• 13:42
  I've heard countless sermons saying she was on her roof.
• 13:45
  And again, the implication is always she's doing this on purpose.
• 13:50
  She's purposely on her roof.
• 13:52
  Shame on her.
• 13:53
  Now the reality is that, and we talked about this last week, David shouldn't have been
• 13:58
  home.
• 13:59
  So even if she was purposely on her roof, why would she have been purposely on her roof
• 14:04
  when David wasn't supposed to be hung if she was trying to seduce the king, if that was
• 14:09
  her goal?
• 14:11
  So then let's talk about the nakedness aspect.
• 14:13
  Oh, the nakedness of me.
• 14:17
  I think in here in 2024 where we sit, we like to take our culture and push it all the way
• 14:22
  back.
• 14:23
  Yeah.
• 14:24
  And to us, of course you bathe naked.
• 14:27
  Unless, wasn't it Ross from Friends who's like never nude?
• 14:32
  Or was that just something?
• 14:34
  That was on, oh, what was that show that Netflix brought back?
• 14:38
  I just remember quoting that with my friends in high school.
• 14:41
  Arrested Development.
• 14:42
  Was it that?
• 14:43
  Never nude.
• 14:44
  Yeah, it was like a club.
• 14:45
  It was like the never nude club.
• 14:46
  Yeah, so unless you're those people.
• 14:48
  But like for the most part, we are showering and bathing naked because we have complete
• 14:54
  privacy.
• 14:55
  Again, for the most part.
• 14:57
  I don't know your situation, but-
• 14:58
  And also you can get in all your cracks and your crevices.
• 15:01
  Thank you for that.
• 15:02
  You're a nigger if you're nude.
• 15:05
  And so we assume that that would have been the case all throughout history and time,
• 15:11
  right?
• 15:12
  But now this is not proven one way or the other, but as Mark points out, culturally
• 15:19
  you would not have necessarily been naked when you were bathing because you didn't have
• 15:25
  an expectation of complete and total privacy.
• 15:29
  So there is a fully large possibility that she wasn't naked at all.
• 15:35
  She wasn't on her roof and she wasn't naked.
• 15:37
  And that culture was pretty concerned with- now this is just my thought.
• 15:43
  I would think that they were pretty concerned with modesty specifically for women at that
• 15:48
  point in time.
• 15:49
  So it would be a little odd.
• 15:50
  Yeah, for her to be fully naked.
• 15:52
  Yeah, and so that could have meant, you know, as I'm washing this part of my body, I'm covering
• 15:59
  up this part of my body as, you know, whatever.
• 16:01
  So she probably would have been less covered than normal.
• 16:05
  Like she wasn't in full robes.
• 16:07
  Again, expectation of privacy.
• 16:11
  Expectation of privacy, guys.
• 16:13
  She had a reasonable reason to assume nobody was going to see her.
• 16:21
  So then the next thing that's important to talk about in this article, and I'm going
• 16:24
  to speed through this one a little bit so we can get through some more.
• 16:27
  How fast?
• 16:29
  Fast.
• 16:30
  Like the wind, bullseye.
• 16:33
  So the next important aspect of this that we didn't talk about last week is her age.
• 16:39
  So at the time, and you know, culturally it's different now what is acceptable for an age
• 16:46
  difference.
• 16:47
  They didn't think like, okay, over 18.
• 16:50
  Right.
• 16:51
  Right.
• 16:52
  There was definitely a- girls were getting married in their early to mid teens was the
• 16:57
  expectation and the men were not necessarily that young.
• 17:01
  They may have been younger, but they probably wouldn't have been that young.
• 17:05
  At this point, David has many, many wives.
• 17:08
  So we assume he's older.
• 17:11
  Now she was able to conceive a child as we learn later in the story.
• 17:15
  So she's at least old enough to have a period.
• 17:18
  To have a period.
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:20
  She's gone through puberty.
• 17:21
  But, I mean, that can happen quite young.
• 17:25
  Think about when you started your periods out there.
• 17:27
  If you're-
• 17:28
  Women.
• 17:29
  Oh, women.
• 17:30
  I don't know if it's-
• 17:31
  I started when I was 10.
• 17:32
  Thank you for that information.
• 17:33
  People are getting really serious over here.
• 17:37
  Listen, that could be a security question.
• 17:39
  Now you know that about me.
• 17:40
  Oh, is that a security question?
• 17:43
  Feels invasive.
• 17:44
  For the woke community.
• 17:45
  Ah, yes.
• 17:46
  Yeah.
• 17:47
  And I think based on what I know of science that we are starting, like women are starting
• 17:53
  their periods younger, so it might have been a little bit older.
• 17:56
  You could say maybe 13 or something like that.
• 17:58
  But she was at least that old.
• 18:00
  However, it seems like she was quite young.
• 18:05
  The rest of the accounts, like not biblical, but other historical accounts of her make
• 18:13
  her quite young.
• 18:15
  So we can assume probably based on the time period, based on the fact that she didn't
• 18:21
  have any children yet that we know of, that she was probably recently married, and that
• 18:28
  David was staring at what was likely an underage child and lusting after her.
• 18:34
  And again, the expectations at the time were different, but still I think that's an important
• 18:39
  point to bring up because it humanizes her too.
• 18:43
  It really helps you see her as the victim in this story.
• 18:47
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:48
  Which is what she was.
• 18:49
  Right.
• 18:50
  And not only was she a child, as we've talked about, she was requested by the king for no
• 18:57
  reason other than sex.
• 18:59
  Yep.
• 19:00
  And in that scenario, as we learn in other places in the Bible, she didn't have the option
• 19:06
  to say no.
• 19:07
  No.
• 19:08
  One of the things that Marg points out later in one of her comments is she talks about
• 19:11
  Queen Vashti, who was in the story of Esther.
• 19:15
  So Queen Vashti was the queen prior to Esther, and she basically had the guts to say no to
• 19:26
  a summons from the king, so the king called for her to do the deed.
• 19:31
  And she said, no thank you.
• 19:35
  I'm tired of you.
• 19:36
  Goodbye.
• 19:37
  I think you smell.
• 19:38
  You haven't been showering in the nude like you should have been.
• 19:41
  And I'm gonna keep my knees closed, thank you.
• 19:45
  And so what does the king do?
• 19:47
  He kills her off and he replaces her.
• 19:50
  And Queen Vashti-
• 19:51
  As so many men do.
• 19:54
  And Queen Vashti also would have had a lot more confidence and status to be able to say
• 20:01
  no.
• 20:02
  And she still got killed.
• 20:03
  She was the queen.
• 20:04
  Right.
• 20:05
  So imagine Bathsheba, some of the comments on this article blow my mind, but some of
• 20:12
  the comments say, well she could have said no, she could have said no.
• 20:16
  And one of the respondents to that was like, only a man would say she could say no.
• 20:22
  This girl, she was a child.
• 20:25
  She was summoned by the king.
• 20:27
  She had no influence.
• 20:29
  She probably had the king's men come to her house and like literally not give her a choice.
• 20:34
  Pick her up, take her to the king.
• 20:37
  It wasn't, hey do you mind?
• 20:39
  The king actually wanted to see you.
• 20:42
  Do you mind coming with us?
• 20:43
  No.
• 20:44
  It's an order.
• 20:45
  Right.
• 20:46
  Well the verse says go get her.
• 20:48
  He sent them to get her.
• 20:50
  Not to ask.
• 20:51
  Not to say, hey next week are you free?
• 20:54
  And this was after he had asked who is she.
• 20:57
  Right.
• 20:58
  So he knows.
• 21:00
  Because she was named, back then they were named by the men that they were related to.
• 21:05
  So they said, oh that's the daughter of Eliam who is one of King David's top 30 closest
• 21:13
  soldiers to him.
• 21:14
  His top fighters.
• 21:16
  And also she's the wife of Uriah who's also in your top 30 soldiers fighting for you,
• 21:23
  King David.
• 21:24
  So she's mentioned by two of the men that he probably knew.
• 21:28
  Yeah that was actually an error that I want to correct from the last one.
• 21:32
  We had kind of said that Uriah may not have known David, but as we were researching further
• 21:38
  it became clear that Uriah would likely have known David, would likely have been in the
• 21:43
  palace before because he was one of David's top guys.
• 21:48
  Which makes the story even worse.
• 21:51
  Yeah.
• 21:52
  Like this was someone who had pledged his life to the king and said I will do anything.
• 21:58
  I will not question anything that you ask of me.
• 22:02
  I will lay down my life.
• 22:04
  Which means if you think about it, now this is also horrific so don't come at me, but
• 22:11
  based on the time period because Uriah had pledged his life and everything to David,
• 22:18
  if David had said Uriah I want your wife, because David does this later, Uriah would
• 22:24
  have said probably, okay.
• 22:28
  You're my king.
• 22:29
  Okay.
• 22:30
  So still horrific, still forcing himself upon her, still awful, but David could have gotten
• 22:36
  away with it, but instead he chose to exert his power over Bathsheba and over Uriah in
• 22:45
  big ways.
• 22:46
  Over many people, yeah.
• 22:48
  So he knows who she is, he says I don't care, go get her.
• 22:55
  Ridiculous.
• 22:57
  Constant horrible, terrible, awful choices.
• 23:01
  We talked about this last week, but you have to think of the timeline too and I think that's
• 23:07
  something that we glaze over a lot with this story because it's only two chapters long.
• 23:13
  So it seems like okay, all of this was done in a period of a week or two weeks.
• 23:18
  It's easy to make that assumption.
• 23:20
  The Veggie Tales certainly do.
• 23:22
  The Ducky story is not very long.
• 23:24
  It's only a half hour.
• 23:26
  I think we talked about this in the last episode too.
• 23:29
  Think about the entire length of her pregnancy because spoiler alert, I know that you probably
• 23:35
  listened to the last episode, she gets pregnant.
• 23:39
  That's like nine months of time.
• 23:42
  So at the end of this story, Nathan the prophet comes to King David and says, hey, I know
• 23:48
  what you did.
• 23:49
  I know what you did last summer.
• 23:52
  And we don't know that that happened right after the baby was born.
• 23:57
  So it could have been nine months.
• 23:59
  It could have been four years.
• 24:00
  We really don't have a timeline here.
• 24:03
  And so to think that David was just chilling, not really seemingly feeling all that bad
• 24:08
  about this, not telling anybody and just going on with his life.
• 24:15
  Because who was he answering to?
• 24:17
  Well, he was supposed to be answering to God.
• 24:19
  He was supposed to be, but clearly not.
• 24:21
  Clearly not.
• 24:22
  So Nathan shows up and says, hey, God's pissed.
• 24:27
  He's pissed, pissed, pissed.
• 24:30
  So then the last point I want to make from this article before we move on to a couple
• 24:34
  of the other ones is how innocent the Bible portrays Bathsheba.
• 24:43
  How did we get here?
• 24:44
  How did we get here?
• 24:46
  There's no verse that says, and she seductively tempted him and shame on her and shame on
• 24:52
  Bathsheba.
• 24:54
  Nathan didn't come and say, hey, Bathsheba, repent.
• 24:58
  No, he said, David, repent.
• 25:01
  And there is another instance later in the story of Bathsheba where Nathan does come
• 25:06
  to her and talk to her.
• 25:08
  Not about this, not to make her feel bad, but as a prophecy from God, he comes to her.
• 25:13
  And that's a whole different story.
• 25:15
  Maybe he has full ability and willingness to talk to her, but he doesn't.
• 25:20
  He talks to David.
• 25:21
  And the story that he tells David is about this shepherd who has one little lamb.
• 25:30
  And the lamb, anytime a lamb is mentioned in the Bible, it's usually like this vision
• 25:35
  of innocence, of representation of Christ.
• 25:39
  So innocence, perfection, whatever you want, sinlessness, right?
• 25:45
  And the shepherd has the little lamb and the rich man takes the lamb and kills it.
• 25:55
  If you watched the last, or if you listened to the last episode.
• 25:57
  Did you watch it too?
• 25:59
  If you did, I'm frightened because where did you watch it from?
• 26:02
  But in that story, some scholars have implied that if Bathsheba in this case is the lamb,
• 26:13
  as it seems to be, then it is directly saying in this instance she is sinless.
• 26:18
  She is innocent, yeah.
• 26:20
  She has done nothing wrong.
• 26:21
  She was the victim here.
• 26:23
  But yet in so many circumstances when you hear this story preached, or like we were
• 26:30
  talking about earlier, the depictions, the art of this story, it always makes her seem
• 26:35
  like a villain.
• 26:38
  She was purposely out to get him.
• 26:40
  And I also want to say, even if she was standing on her roof, butt naked, trying to seduce
• 26:49
  the king, the king should have said no.
• 26:53
  The king should have looked at her, okay, and then he asked who is she related to.
• 26:58
  Oh, she's the wife of this and the daughter of this.
• 27:00
  He should have been like, see ya bye, even if she was trying to seduce him.
• 27:04
  Well, I think the reason we forget that is because as Brie and I were talking about earlier,
• 27:11
  it is in Christianity always on women to stop men from behaving poorly, to stop men from
• 27:19
  going after them sexually, to stop men from whatever their urges might be.
• 27:24
  It's always on the women.
• 27:26
  You have to dress a certain way so they don't look at you that way.
• 27:29
  You have to behave a certain way so they don't think like that.
• 27:32
  If you get into a situation where he's forcing himself upon you, it's on you to say no, which
• 27:38
  of course you want to say no anyway, but he has no responsibility in the matter.
• 27:43
  And I think we put that on this story too.
• 27:45
  Yeah, we were talking about this earlier too, if you had the experience of going to church
• 27:51
  camps or we went to band camp too and they would yell at us for if our bra straps were
• 27:57
  showing or our shorts were too short and say like, hey you can't wear that because the
• 28:03
  boys are going to lust after you and you don't want to cause them to do that.
• 28:10
  So you have to change yourself because you're worth less than what they are.
• 28:17
  Their thoughts and just them being men, they are worth more so you have to put yourself
• 28:25
  down.
• 28:26
  Well, we say this all the time.
• 28:29
  I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard this.
• 28:31
  Boys mature slower than girls.
• 28:35
  Boys just, they have such a sexual drive that girls just won't understand.
• 28:41
  They just can't control that so it's up to you to help them to be their sister in Christ.
• 28:50
  The amount of I rolled.
• 28:53
  It's up to you to stop them from sinning.
• 28:56
  And I just want to point out that even when the Bible calls us the body of Christ, it
• 29:00
  is never on one person to stop another person from sinning.
• 29:07
  Because God gave us free will.
• 29:09
  That is never asked of us.
• 29:11
  It's never asked of me to stop Brianna from sinning.
• 29:15
  And when it talks, people are always like, well, you don't want to be a stumbling block.
• 29:19
  Oh, sorry.
• 29:20
  These are very churchy terms that I've heard.
• 29:22
  Well, it's just frustrating because it's like, oh, we need to help them along their way.
• 29:28
  But at the same time, we're also told that the men need to be the head of the household
• 29:33
  and the head of this and the head of that and they need to lead their wives.
• 29:37
  But they can't control themselves enough to not take advantage of someone.
• 29:41
  Well, I think that's exactly what's happened in this story is we've taken that mindset,
• 29:48
  that way of thinking and thrown it on David and said, well, he couldn't control himself.
• 29:53
  He saw a naked woman, therefore automatically he must have her.
• 29:59
  Like how absolutely stupid.
• 30:02
  You're right.
• 30:03
  If she was standing on her roof naked, shouting at him, come sleep with me.
• 30:09
  I'm desperate.
• 30:10
  My husband's been away for too long.
• 30:15
  It doesn't matter.
• 30:17
  It doesn't matter because he's still in control of who he is and he's supposed to be following
• 30:24
  God.
• 30:25
  He is directly supposed to be following God and that's always, always going to be on him.
• 30:30
  And side note, she wasn't doing any of those things.
• 30:33
  Yeah, no.
• 30:34
  None of that is true.
• 30:35
  It's even worse because she was completely innocent.
• 30:39
  But we've made her into this awful person, this villain, this, I don't know, temptress,
• 30:45
  I guess is a great word.
• 30:46
  I think she's just become like a sex object to people because you were talking about art
• 30:52
  that you've seen, right?
• 30:53
  Yeah.
• 30:54
  So I looked up a couple of different depictions.
• 30:57
  There's a Rembrandt and I'm looking at it now, unfortunately, but you can't, you could,
• 31:04
  I suppose.
• 31:06
  Everybody get on Google with me.
• 31:08
  It's time for Art History 101.
• 31:10
  Maybe don't.
• 31:12
  But it's called Bathsheba at Her Bath and it's a very nude picture.
• 31:17
  If you're not familiar with this period of art history, there's a lot of nudes, but this
• 31:22
  one is quite nude.
• 31:25
  And she's bathing and she's got her hand laid just so, like the suggestive, like, ah, and
• 31:33
  her face is innocently off to the side as she tries to seduce him, whatever.
• 31:38
  She better her eyes.
• 31:41
  But there are many depictions of her and she's always naked.
• 31:45
  She's just absolutely always fully nude.
• 31:48
  And I hate that for her.
• 31:50
  Now we know she's been gone for a long time, but just empathetically imagine if your history
• 31:59
  and she has a great story from here.
• 32:02
  This part of her story is horrific.
• 32:04
  Don't get me wrong.
• 32:05
  But from here, she has a lovely rest of her story.
• 32:11
  And this is what she's known in history for.
• 32:15
  Not the fact that she raised King Solomon, not the fact that she was the Queen Mother.
• 32:22
  Yeah.
• 32:23
  And would later have so much influence and be risen by God to such a position that, I
• 32:33
  mean, you could argue that she was on equal footing as King David was at the time.
• 32:38
  She was part of Jesus's bloodline.
• 32:41
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:42
  She has an incredible rest of her story and yet as a society, we remember her as the naked
• 32:48
  girl.
• 32:50
  How awful.
• 32:53
  Because I feel like society just, it's easy.
• 32:58
  And like we said in the last episode, we like to make a lot of excuses for people in power
• 33:05
  in order for them to keep their power.
• 33:08
  This is another excuse.
• 33:10
  Right.
• 33:11
  Well, and I think it makes us uncomfy to say the reality of who David was because he is
• 33:18
  and it's actually prior to the story, called a man after God's own heart.
• 33:22
  And that's an interesting phrase.
• 33:23
  So Marga actually talks about that as well.
• 33:25
  So I would recommend checking out her work on that.
• 33:29
  But it makes us uncomfortable to call him out for what he was.
• 33:35
  And I can't say again, the exact word here because algorithms, but the fact that he forced
• 33:40
  himself on her, the fact that he murdered her husband.
• 33:43
  Can I say murder?
• 33:44
  Should I say unalive?
• 33:45
  He unalived her husband.
• 33:46
  That's a really tough set of things to try and put together.
• 33:51
  Man after God's own heart, but also this horrific person.
• 33:56
  Like how do you reconcile those?
• 33:57
  And I think that's why we've done this to her.
• 33:59
  I think that kind of leads us into some like current events happening in our life right
• 34:08
  now.
• 34:09
  There's a story going around where someone high up in a position of power in a very well
• 34:17
  known church.
• 34:19
  There's a church that we have been associated with and there's a huge scandal going on right
• 34:23
  now.
• 34:24
  And it's because someone in power decided that they were the most important person.
• 34:30
  He decided that he was more important than all of the people that he was supposed to
• 34:35
  be serving.
• 34:36
  That his needs were more important.
• 34:38
  And that the consent of other people was not worth his time.
• 34:44
  And we are really struggling with that right now.
• 34:48
  As the two of us, as my husband, it's something that has become very real to us as we look
• 34:55
  at this story as well.
• 34:56
  Yeah, I think it relates to the story because he was someone that people wanted to look
• 35:01
  up to.
• 35:02
  Right?
• 35:03
  And I think that a lot of people are still in some ways defending because it makes them
• 35:13
  uncomfortable to sit with that reality.
• 35:17
  That someone in the faith is not perfect.
• 35:23
  And that it's okay to say what they did was really wrong.
• 35:25
  Well, I think what I've seen also in this story and I think relates to David and Bathsheba
• 35:32
  as well is watching people say, like post on social media, like, well, whoever's without
• 35:40
  sin cast the first stone and we have to forgive and forget and we have to whatever.
• 35:45
  And I hear that to some degree.
• 35:49
  We are certainly called to forgive.
• 35:52
  However, we are also called to call out sin.
• 35:57
  And we are also called to be there for the people who are hurting.
• 36:02
  And what doesn't help in those situations is to say, hey, you got to forgive.
• 36:07
  Hey, you got to forgive.
• 36:08
  Hey, I forgave.
• 36:09
  So you got to forgive.
• 36:10
  Hey, hey, hey, forgive.
• 36:11
  God said forgive.
• 36:12
  Because you have to think about the people that were affected and validate that what
• 36:18
  happened to them is not right.
• 36:20
  And we are there for you.
• 36:22
  And remember that forgiveness is not something that God said, force this upon others.
• 36:29
  Forgiveness is something that happens for you to help you in a situation.
• 36:33
  Whenever the other person should they choose to forgive, that's between them and God.
• 36:38
  And when you say, when you post things, when you say things like forgive, forgive, forgive,
• 36:43
  or when you say it about King David in this story, forgive, forgive, forgive, what you
• 36:48
  do is invalidate all of what the victim went through when what you could say instead is,
• 36:55
  I'm so sorry.
• 36:57
  That was completely not okay.
• 36:59
  I am so sorry.
• 37:01
  And that's it.
• 37:02
  That's the end of the sentence.
• 37:04
  If from there they need you and they need help, then be there.
• 37:08
  Step in, whatever.
• 37:09
  Or they come to you and say, I want to forgive, but I'm struggling.
• 37:12
  Help me.
• 37:13
  Like, absolutely.
• 37:14
  Yeah.
• 37:15
  But it can just be, I'm so sorry.
• 37:18
  And I think we've talked about this before, but we are always so quick as a Christian
• 37:24
  community to defend the church at all costs, defend the church.
• 37:29
  But the church is the people.
• 37:31
  So are you defending the people?
• 37:34
  Or are you defending the institution?
• 37:38
  And if your immediate reaction to situations like what we're going through right now, to
• 37:45
  if you know someone that's been in a situation like Bathsheba found herself in, if your immediate
• 37:53
  reaction is defend the church, defend the church, defend the church, and I have been
• 37:58
  on the receiving end of this, if your immediate reaction is that what you're doing is telling
• 38:04
  that person you don't have a place here anymore.
• 38:08
  We don't actually care about you.
• 38:10
  We will say until the better end that we care about you, but our actions are not loving
• 38:17
  or caring.
• 38:18
  And I think that's a huge part of, and I've seen this again through this story on social
• 38:23
  media as people comment and say, this is why I'm not in church.
• 38:27
  I will never go back to church because of things like this.
• 38:30
  We were thinking about going back to church and now we won't, et cetera, et cetera.
• 38:35
  And then you see people comment back who are church people in full defense of the church
• 38:41
  person.
• 38:44
  That's never going to bring anybody to church.
• 38:47
  How much more is it going to bring someone back if someone commented from that church
• 38:51
  and they were like, I am so incredibly sorry that you feel that way.
• 38:55
  I hear you.
• 38:56
  And that's it, guys.
• 38:59
  That's it.
• 39:01
  Because I think we will always say like, as a church, we want to be known for fill in
• 39:07
  the blank, for our love of people, for our forgiveness, for our whatever, supernatural
• 39:13
  forgiveness.
• 39:14
  Okay, I hear you.
• 39:17
  But what people are going to see from the outside isn't they forcibly made everybody
• 39:22
  forgive this person and put on a smiley face.
• 39:25
  What they're going to see is in this space supported and loved and admitted to what was
• 39:31
  going on.
• 39:33
  That's what gets seen from the outside if you do it right, which we'll see.
• 39:39
  But that's what the church should be known for, their care and love of their people.
• 39:46
  And when forgiveness does come from that in the end, it's on each individual person and
• 39:53
  they can handle that themselves.
• 39:54
  Because who are you trying to protect?
• 39:57
  Are you trying to protect Bathsheba or are you trying to protect David?
• 40:01
  Right.
• 40:02
  I think most of the time we're trying to protect David, unfortunately.
• 40:06
  But I also wanted to talk a little bit about...
• 40:10
  So I looked up this story just on Wikipedia, okay?
• 40:14
  This is the most basic internet search.
• 40:17
  I found lots of articles, but I thought the one on Wikipedia was really interesting because
• 40:22
  it breaks it down into this story from the perspective of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
• 40:30
  So in my mind, this story is only coming from one perspective, but the reality is that this
• 40:36
  is a historical story that was in other historical accounts.
• 40:41
  So Christians, I hate to tell you this, we don't have a monopoly on this story.
• 40:46
  And I'm not going to go through the whole really deep part of it because in Judaism
• 40:52
  there's a lot to it.
• 40:55
  It goes into astrology, so we're full circling.
• 40:58
  I'm a Leo.
• 40:59
  Congratulations, Dana.
• 41:00
  That's another security question for you.
• 41:02
  Great.
• 41:03
  But I wanted to talk about one important part.
• 41:07
  So on Wikipedia it says that according to rabbinic tradition, and if I am saying that
• 41:12
  incorrectly, I'm sorry.
• 41:14
  Most likely you are.
• 41:15
  Most likely I am.
• 41:18
  Later on in the story Bathsheba's son Solomon, he's not going to be king because he's not
• 41:25
  the oldest son, so logically he's not.
• 41:27
  And his brother, I'm not going to try and say his name, is going to become king.
• 41:34
  But the prophet, Nathan, comes to Bathsheba and says, hey, Solomon was supposed to be
• 41:39
  king.
• 41:41
  That was foretold to you a long time ago.
• 41:43
  We talked about this.
• 41:44
  I want you to go to David and remind him.
• 41:46
  And so she does, and then Solomon becomes king.
• 41:50
  Essentially it implies that she, and Christianity has done this too, through this story it implies
• 41:57
  that she was politically motivated and that that then pushes all the way back to when
• 42:03
  she was a child and she had Solomon in the first place.
• 42:06
  So this says that according to rabbinic tradition, which I know I said it wrong, when Bathsheba
• 42:15
  saw that this other son was about to be crowned king, that basically she went to the prophet
• 42:22
  Nathan and said, hey, we're going to plot together and make it so that Solomon is going
• 42:29
  to be king.
• 42:30
  And so it kind of portrays her as super politically motivated.
• 42:36
  And I guess then we also are going to push that narrative all the way back to when she
• 42:41
  was a literal child.
• 42:44
  That's quite the plan, I would say, to be like, I'm going to be naked bathing, hoping
• 42:51
  that the king who's not supposed to be at his house is going to see me and then I'm
• 42:57
  going to make him want to sleep with me, make myself get pregnant, make sure it's a boy,
• 43:02
  even though he's not going to be the first boy.
• 43:04
  And I'm going to make that boy a king.
• 43:07
  It's the long game.
• 43:08
  She's playing the long game.
• 43:09
  Keep in mind, she's 13 and stupid.
• 43:13
  There's all 13 year olds are.
• 43:15
  I mean, it's a rough time when you're 13.
• 43:17
  But yeah, I mean, the story, it falls apart real quick when you start trying to tell that
• 43:21
  story according to Wikipedia.
• 43:23
  Now if you grew up in the Jewish faith or you are in the Jewish faith and I'm incorrect,
• 43:28
  please definitely let us know.
• 43:30
  But that's what it says about the end of her story.
• 43:32
  Bekkah Mark talks about that in her article too.
• 43:35
  She says that there's just when you try to make that argument, it doesn't hold up because
• 43:41
  the only reason that she went to the king to remind him that Solomon was supposed to
• 43:45
  be the king was because Nathan came and reminded her.
• 43:49
  It wasn't something that she was like, ha ha ha.
• 43:51
  She was, I mean, she was good.
• 43:53
  As far as the Bible says, she was fully going to accept that this was what was going on.
• 43:59
  This was the new king, such is life, moving on.
• 44:04
  So then we've already talked about the Christian viewpoint of her.
• 44:09
  And then we'll talk just for a second about, because Wikipedia talks about it and I think
• 44:14
  it's interesting, the Islamic view of her.
• 44:18
  So it says, in Islam, David is considered to be a prophet.
• 44:22
  And some tradition views this story as incompatible with that because if he's a prophet, he can't
• 44:29
  sin.
• 44:30
  Oh, that's nice for him.
• 44:32
  Especially him.
• 44:33
  I didn't know that was an option.
• 44:34
  There's a lot of sin in David's story, like a bunch.
• 44:38
  So that's going to be a hard one to argue.
• 44:41
  But it has a quote here that says, whoever says that David has married Uriah's wife as
• 44:48
  the legends are narrate, I will punish him twice.
• 44:52
  One for a word I can't pronounce, falsely accusing someone of adultery, and the other
• 44:57
  for desecrating the prophethood, defamation of the prophet David.
• 45:01
  So basically they're saying that this story could not have ever happened in the way that
• 45:06
  the Bible says it.
• 45:07
  Now, obviously there's different sacred texts and things like that, but this argument is
• 45:11
  saying that this could not have been the truth, whereas Christianity would say everything
• 45:17
  in the Bible is true.
• 45:19
  And everybody has sin except for God.
• 45:23
  So different religious traditions, but I just found that really interesting.
• 45:27
  If you want to see those, like I said, it's the Wikipedia page just on Bathsheba, so you
• 45:32
  can go check that out.
• 45:35
  We also looked her up on the Jewish Women's Archive, which one of our favorites.
• 45:40
  It is.
• 45:41
  There's so many good resources out there that I didn't know existed.
• 45:46
  And that's why I like to name them as we use them so that you guys can then go and utilize
• 45:51
  that as well.
• 45:53
  Did you see the comment on our TikTok the other day?
• 45:57
  Yeah, so there was a comment.
• 45:59
  It made me really happy.
• 46:00
  I think she said, I'm home or something.
• 46:03
  She said, wait, faith and feminism?
• 46:06
  I'm home or something like that.
• 46:08
  I loved it.
• 46:10
  It was, I think the first, I always check our TikTok when I get up in the morning and
• 46:14
  it was like the first thing that I saw.
• 46:17
  And it just made me feel happy and it was really nice.
• 46:22
  So if you're out there listening to the actual podcast, we're so happy you're here.
• 46:27
  Because there's not an abundance of resources out there with dealing with this topic, faith
• 46:35
  and feminism.
• 46:37
  And it is a thing.
• 46:40
  Like we've said before, Jesus was a feminist.
• 46:42
  Well, and for us too, we love to see your guys' comments.
• 46:47
  It's not always easy to do a podcast because this is a lot of work.
• 46:52
  We spend a lot of our time that we don't have a ton of anyway.
• 46:56
  Podcasting and editing and getting the clips up and things like that.
• 47:01
  Plus also we spend at least 12 hours a day sleeping.
• 47:04
  It's a lot of work.
• 47:06
  I need at least 13 hours.
• 47:09
  So it was just really nice to know that we can be part of creating that community for
• 47:14
  someone.
• 47:15
  And hopefully we can also, I don't know, push you all forth into some really good resources
• 47:21
  as well.
• 47:22
  I don't know how to say that without sounding weird.
• 47:23
  Go forth and breed.
• 47:24
  Feed these research papers.
• 47:28
  Have a great time.
• 47:30
  Anyone want to feel like they're in school?
• 47:32
  But you know, just because our best friend is Beth and our good friend is Marg, it doesn't
• 47:37
  mean they can't be your best friends and good friends.
• 47:39
  Very true, very true.
• 47:40
  Although we haven't asked them, so we don't know them.
• 47:44
  They don't need to know.
• 47:45
  And in fact, if I were to meet them and they were to have listened to this, I think I would
• 47:50
  be embarrassed.
• 47:51
  That's fair.
• 47:52
  But they might also love us.
• 47:54
  No way to know.
• 47:55
  No, unless, hey, Beth, Marg, Sarah Bessie, all of the people that we know.
• 48:05
  If you'd like to question, comment, concern our podcast, reach out.
• 48:09
  We'd be open to a brunch.
• 48:17
  We do love a mimosa.
• 48:19
  So anyway, next week.
• 48:23
  Next week.
• 48:24
  The future.
• 48:25
  The future.
• 48:26
  As we look ahead, we're going to be talking about this story again, because I just feel
• 48:31
  like there's so much to it.
• 48:34
  And her story continues on from here in the Bible.
• 48:38
  And a lot of times women's stories in the Bible, they do seem very short.
• 48:42
  They're one chapter or even like the book of Esther is very short.
• 48:48
  So it feels like their stories are so short.
• 48:50
  But with Bathsheba, we do follow her along for a while.
• 48:54
  She's in the lineage of Jesus, like we talked about.
• 48:56
  She has Solomon as one of her children.
• 48:59
  Marg has another article that I read on kind of the continuation of Bathsheba's story that
• 49:04
  I find really interesting.
• 49:06
  So we're going to talk about that.
• 49:07
  I would also like to talk about some of the, I'm going to find some really painful quotes.
• 49:13
  So prepare yourselves from pastors that have preached on this.
• 49:18
  Oh.
• 49:19
  So we're going to talk about that.
• 49:21
  This might be a three parter, it might be a four parter.
• 49:24
  We'll see.
• 49:25
  It depends on how we're feeling that day.
• 49:27
  It just depends on how chatty we're feeling and how alive this makes us feel.
• 49:33
  To the alive part that's always a concern.
• 49:37
  So you guys can look forward to that fun next week.
• 49:40
  It's going to be thrilling.
• 49:41
  Shout out to where do we want to send people to listen to us?
• 49:47
  Send them to listen to us?
• 49:48
  All right.
• 49:49
  We need you all to road trip too.
• 49:51
  Honestly, we're willing to do that too.
• 49:55
  All right.
• 49:56
  Let's see.
• 49:57
  Bri, are there any other states that you don't think exist?
• 49:59
  I'm convinced that Utah is a state.
• 50:02
  Well, that's good.
• 50:03
  Would you like people to listen from Utah?
• 50:05
  I don't know.
• 50:06
  All right.
• 50:07
  Those of you in Utah, convince Bri that you listen to podcasts.
• 50:14
  She does believe you're real, so hooray.
• 50:18
  What do you call people from Utah?
• 50:19
  Utahians?
• 50:20
  I don't know.
• 50:21
  What do you call us?
• 50:23
  Michiganders.
• 50:24
  That's weird.
• 50:25
  No, but that's really what we're calling.
• 50:26
  I know, but it's weird.
• 50:28
  Utahians?
• 50:29
  Yeah, Utahians.
• 50:30
  All right.
• 50:31
  People from Utah.
• 50:32
  I'm sorry.
• 50:33
  But also if you could listen to the podcast, that'd be great.
• 50:37
  Also you guys can like, comment, share all the things.
• 50:40
  You can follow us on social media.
• 50:41
  We are heavily on TikTok and Instagram.
• 50:44
  You can find us on Facebook, but I'm kind of lazy about that.
• 50:47
  Did I say before that I think it's a dead art?
• 50:50
  You did.
• 50:51
  You did.
• 50:52
  I stand by that.
• 50:53
  So people of Facebook.
• 50:56
  People of Facebook, you need to find a new social media platform.
• 51:00
  I'm on Facebook a lot actually.
• 51:02
  I don't know why.
• 51:03
  It's kind of useless.
• 51:04
  Okay.
• 51:05
  See?
• 51:06
  No, I'm with you.
• 51:07
  See?
• 51:08
  I do scroll through Facebook like in the morning as I'm like, the wee early bits of the morning
• 51:14
  I'm trying to crust my eyes and I just out of habit go to Facebook and start scrolling
• 51:19
  and I realized it's nothing but ads and garbage.
• 51:22
  It is.
• 51:23
  It really is.
• 51:24
  So there are a few people that I like to follow on there.
• 51:28
  We follow Sheila on there.
• 51:30
  I do.
• 51:31
  I do also.
• 51:32
  I like to see her stuff.
• 51:33
  There's a few people that I like on there.
• 51:34
  But anyway, so go check us out on socials.
• 51:38
  We will see you next week.
• 51:39
  Peace be with you and also with you and love you.
• 51:43
  Good bye.
• 51:44
  I love you too.